RE: ASPizer

> on 10/17/01 6:08 AM, "Paul Ilechko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Whatever Jon is or isn't is not my place to say, but I think I > was pretty > > clear that we are NOT looking to dump a project on Apache, that we ARE > > continuing to work on ASPizer and support it, and have described the >

[PROPOSAL] New Project Creation Guidelines

Here is my proposal for new project creation guidelines. I have not linked it into the main site until I can get 3 +1 votes from the PMC and 0 -1 votes from the PMC. I will accept any patches against this document and/or direct commits from PM

RE: ASPizer

From: Avi Cherry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Instead, he > questioned the motives of the developer offering their code, implying > that he was being selfish in wanting to have the Apache group take > the project in. This was obviously not his intent, It might have been obvious to you, but

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 9:36 PM, "Tim Vernum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > When I first read the original mail my reaction was "Someone with > a homeless project looking for an owner". I must be tainted from having been around here so long. I see right through his proposal. > In fact Paul's most recent mai

Re: ASPizer

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Ceki Gülcü wrote: | At 22:21 17.10.2001 +0200, Endre Stølsvik wrote: | >On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Ceki Gulcu wrote: | > | >| > As a coder, I've mentioned before, he's apparently very good. And his | >| > observations and whatnot are also _insightful_, but nothing more. | >| > Wh

Re: ASPizer

| Put your project on SourceForget.net. There is another project there that is | now hugely successful that we also rejected here and which I hosted for a | number of years on my own dime, the Jboss project. Hope is not lost. So you (Jakarta) rejected Jboss. I didn't know that. How incredibly sm

Re: ASPizer

| The thing is that most people who do open source work do it for the | fun/satisfaction of the thing, and engaging in debates with someone who | truly speaks their mind and only compliments your work when its worth | complimenting helps out with that fun/satisfaction thing. I agree. That's not

RE: ASPizer

From: Endre Stølsvik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > So you (Jakarta) rejected Jboss. I didn't know that. How > incredibly smart > of you. Ah yes, the incredible science of predicting alternative realities. How do you know that JBoss would have worked within Jakarta? Maybe the JBoss developers

Re: ASPizer

Dear All, It's somewhat sad that this discussion has degenerated into a flamefest, rife with personal attacks and orificial metaphors. It's sadder still, Jon, that you quote Paul almost verbatim in your document "New Project Proposals" (http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html) and put

Re: ASPizer

On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, Jon Stevens wrote: | on 10/15/01 11:15 AM, "Paul Ilechko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | | > Peter and Jon, thanks for the feedback, sorry I didn't get a chance to respond | > sooner. | > | > A few comments: | > | > ASPizer is currently a production quality product, and in fact

Re: ASPizer

Endre, Although Jon might not be the most politically-correct person around, he is usually right. Jon is correct to observe that Jakarta is not a dumping ground for .bomb projects. I am very grateful to Jon for having the courage to speak up his mind. One might be crititical of Jon but he rema

Re: ASPizer

--- Ceki Gulcu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Endre, > > Although Jon might not be the most politically-correct person around, > he is usually right. Jon is correct to observe that Jakarta is not a > dumping ground for .bomb projects. Project X is written because it is useful to Company Y.

RE: ASPizer

> I am very grateful to Jon for having the courage to speak up his > mind. It is only a pity when he speaks his mind BEFORE making his mind. Sometimes his remarks just have no grounds because he did not study a subject before talking about it. And this seems to be the case. OTOH, one sure can

Re: ASPizer

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Ceki Gulcu wrote: | | Endre, | | Although Jon might not be the most politically-correct person around, | he is usually right. Jon is correct to observe that Jakarta is not a | dumping ground for .bomb projects. Of course it's not a dumping ground. This is about whether the

Re: ASPizer

Ceki Gulcu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Endre, > > Although Jon might not be the most politically-correct person around, > he is usually right. Jon is correct to observe that Jakarta is not a > dumping ground for .bomb projects. > > I am very grateful to Jon for having the courage to speak

Re: ASPizer

Alex McLintock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Project X is written because it is useful to Company Y. > Company Y attempts to market Project X because they think it is useful to > others. > Company Y decides they wont get enough money for Project X > Company Y offers Project X to the Opensource c

Problem with bug database search terms?

I think there may be a problem with searching in the bug database. I know that bug 1669 contains the word "deadlock" in its summary. If I search for "deadlocK" in the database, however, it returns no bugs. I tried searching for substrings instead, such as "lock". In this case bugs whose summar

Re: ASPizer

Whatever Jon is or isn't is not my place to say, but I think I was pretty clear that we are NOT looking to dump a project on Apache, that we ARE continuing to work on ASPizer and support it, and have described the commitment we expect to make. Now, if anyone wants to look more closely at the pr

Re: IIS and Tomcat 4.0

On Tuesday, October 16, 2001, at 07:03 PM, Clark Richey wrote: > I am trying to connect Tomcat 4.0 to IIS with little luck. Can anyone > point > me to some documentation on how to do this or provide me with > instructions? the help you need can best be found on the tomcat-user list. - robert

Re: ASPizer

Endre, > Of course it's not a dumping ground. > > This is about whether the Open Source Community at Apache would be > interested in a project. Starting the debate from Apache's side with such > crude, ugly, disrespectful remarks like Jon's coming up with is just not > fair. This company is "dum

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 9:24 AM, "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nothing, but from a community standpoint, the ASF would rather incorporate > projects that are not backed up by a self-sustained open-development > community... Look at our last addition, Log4J, it was an IBM project, they > dumpe

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 6:08 AM, "Paul Ilechko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Whatever Jon is or isn't is not my place to say, but I think I was pretty > clear that we are NOT looking to dump a project on Apache, that we ARE > continuing to work on ASPizer and support it, and have described the > commitment w

Re: ASPizer

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ceki Gulcu writes: >Coming back to the issue at hand, if ASPizer authors are truly >committed to open source and the Apache model, they should counter >Jon's remarks and justify the reasons why their product should be part >of Jakarta. ... >I did not read anyone bu

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 9:35 AM, "Ceki Gulcu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jakarta is not a dumping ground for .bomb projects. Untactful? > Yes. Accurate statement? Yes. Let me point out that I tried tact the first time I responded: > There is nothing in your proposal discussion WHY you would want to give

RE: ASPizer

Jon, This is a nice entry for the FAQ you are talking about. It is quite reasonable and all. Copying and pasting this somewhere and putting the corresponding question before it is better than nothing and you get an URL to use next time the problem pops up. I quite like your well tempered writin

Re: ASPizer

On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Ceki Gulcu wrote: | > As a coder, I've mentioned before, he's apparently very good. And his | > observations and whatnot are also _insightful_, but nothing more. | > Why not just package things just a little bit nicer? Or just whatever? | > Be a bit more polite? Be, you kno

Re: ASPizer

On Wed, 17 October 2001, Ceki Gulcu wrote: > In their propposal, THBS commits to two years of development while a > paragraph earlier they say that they can no longer fund the > project. What kind of bull is that? No, this is not what we said. We said we cannot fund taking the product to market,

Re: ASPizer

On Wed, 17 October 2001, Jon Stevens wrote: > Let me point out that I tried tact the first time I responded: > > > There is nothing in your proposal discussion WHY you would want to give this > > to the ASF other than because you think you have a cool product. Nor is > > there anything that sug

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 1:21 PM, "Endre Stølsvik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jon's last post is just so very much better. Why not start with something > like that? It's still pretty direct, but in a much nicer, somewhat > diplomatic way. I did start nice. How come you choose to ignore that? > I'm not. It

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 12:42 PM, "Paul Ilechko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Actually, I responded to all your points, then you decided it was time to > insult us, at which point it no longer seemed worthwhile responding to you at > all. Fortunately, not everyone on the list has the same attitude problem.

Re: ASPizer

At 22:21 17.10.2001 +0200, Endre Stølsvik wrote: >On Wed, 17 Oct 2001, Ceki Gulcu wrote: > >| > As a coder, I've mentioned before, he's apparently very good. And his >| > observations and whatnot are also _insightful_, but nothing more. >| > Why not just package things just a little bit nicer? O

Re: ASPizer

At 12:42 17.10.2001 -0700, Paul Ilechko wrote: >On Wed, 17 October 2001, Jon Stevens wrote: > > >> Let me point out that I tried tact the first time I responded: >> >> > There is nothing in your proposal discussion WHY you would want to give this >> > to the ASF other than because you think you h

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 12:24 PM, "Paul Ilechko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, this is not what we said. We said we cannot fund taking the product to > market, which is vastly different than being able to fund development. We are > primarily a consulting company, and we have used ASPizer for a client proj

RE: ASPizer

> Let me quote you: > > "However, due to various economic factors such as the decline in the ASP > market and the recent difficulties in obtaining venture capital, we have > decided that at this time it is not feasible for is to continue in that > direction." > > And: > > "We intend to continue t

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 3:33 PM, "Paul Ilechko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've already responded to that. You jumped to an incorrect conclusion, and > attacked without even atttempting to get clarification. There is no conclusion. There is no attack. You still haven't responded to my question and your do

RE: ASPizer

> -Original Message- > From: Ceki Gülcü [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 11:54 PM > > I am sorry but what insult are you referring to? Calling someone's hard-worked project ".bomb", without even trying to get informed about it. Does this qualify? Have fun

RE: ASPizer

> -Original Message- > From: Paul Ilechko [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 12:33 AM > > ... > > ... Why are you so threatened by this ? Jumping to conclusions about the motivations of someone else is a way of getting personal. That is always counterproductiv

Re: ASPizer

on 10/17/01 4:29 PM, "Paulo Gaspar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Calling someone's hard-worked project ".bomb", without even > trying to get informed about it. > > Does this qualify? It is a .bomb project though. I have an entire corporation of them (yes, I am the proud owner of a rather large w

RE: ASPizer

> -Original Message- > From: Jon Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 1:14 AM > > ... > > ...Given your defensive nature I now question even more the > ability of you and your project to thrive in this open arena. Jumping to conclusions about the persona

Re: ASPizer

I don't have any more time for this. End of discussion. I'm not going to change my mind. -1 My suggestion: Put your project on SourceForget.net. There is another project there that is now hugely successful that we also rejected here and which I hosted for a number of years on my own dime, the J

Re[2]: ASPizer

>>Jon justifiably told Ranjit Mathew that Jakarta >>was not a dumping ground. He also outlined that unlikely promises were >>not good enough. While one may criticize his direct style, Jakarta is not a popularity contest. As an unbiased observer, I fully support Jon's behavior here and apprec

Re: ASPizer

- Original Message - From: "Pier Fumagalli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2001 12:20 PM Subject: Re: ASPizer > Agree, he might be a pain from time to time (or most of the times, OK)... > But he has been around since 96? 95? can't even remember, a

Re: ASPizer

Daniel Rall wrote: > > ASPizer guys: you have the option to re-submit your proposal in a > manner which directly addresses the questions raised here. People do > sometimes change their minds when presented with a comprehensive set > of information in a format desirable to them. +1 Just remember

Re: ASPizer

At 8:00 PM -0400 10/17/01, Scott Tacares wrote: >I don't care if he was here before time and space there is no excuse! He >does damage to the entire open source community with his crude and >unjustified remarks. It makes people shy away from participating in fear >that he may belittle them, this i

Re: ASPizer

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Endre Stølsvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes >I'm not. It's trying to point something out to Jon, actually. But he >definately does have a load of followers in this forum, protecting his 5 >years earned rights to be rude. But I do know that there is several other >pe

Re: ASPizer

Jon Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I don't have any more time for this. End of discussion. I'm not going to > change my mind. > > -1 ASPizer guys: you have the option to re-submit your proposal in a manner which directly addresses the questions raised here. People do sometimes change the