Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott wrote: > > There is no excuse for Red Hat shipping a product that will crash after 3 > > weeks no matter what system its running on. > > Red Hat 7.0 does appear to have been subjected to rather substandard QA > procedures. > > On the other hand, I think you might be just a litt

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > (which is what red hat does in _all_ their releases... another reason why > I use debian, you have a stable branch, and an unstable branch) There is plenty of "pre-release" quality software in the "stable" distribution of Debian. For example, Mozilla

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > wait wait wait... redhat is the multi-million dollar company. > they shouldve > tested 7.0 to mars and back before selling it to consumers. when i buy a linux > distribution off the shelf, or from the company, I dont expect them to use the > most bleedi

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

wait wait wait... redhat is the multi-million dollar company. they shouldve tested 7.0 to mars and back before selling it to consumers. when i buy a linux distribution off the shelf, or from the company, I dont expect them to use the most bleeding edge technology (which is what red hat does in _al

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

> > > > Every system has bugs, yes... even Red Hat!!! > > LOL! I was never asserting Red Hat is perfect! :-) > >I'll just say to this that I still use RH, but I'm having serious > second thoughts after the latest release disaster. With the internal and > external beta testing they do, t

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

I shouldn't even be getting my hands dirty in this... On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Benjamin Scott wrote: > I always use Red Hat's text-mode install. I hate the GUI. But some people > could not get by without it. Choice is the operative factor here. Believe it Don't forget that in the first

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > (getting the X installer running from the CDROM takes _forever_. Geez, what are you installing on, a 386? It only takes maybe ten seconds on anything made in the past three years... :-) -- Ben Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Net Technologies, Inc.

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > if you have a 3com, and you know its model is 3c509, i would hope you had > enough common sense to load 3c509.o. Sure. But if you have a LNE100TX, would you know to load tulip.o? :-) Besides, like I keep saying: If the computer can figure it out

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

"Tilly, Lawrence" wrote: > To begin, I am a Debian user, and have not had install problems any > of the times I've gone through the process. I will admit that it's probably > not for the average "I just bought my first computer" user, but for myself, > it's fine. Personally, as long as

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Jeffry Smith wrote: [snip] > > Some people in the Debian community (I don't necessarily mean anyone here) > > seem to identify with that joke a bit more than is healthy. There was an > ... [snip] ... > and, as you said, if you make it too hard, they will go for the easy, but not > as useful

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Tilly, Lawrence said: >> What I AM writing is to ask about the above statement. Could you > give a more specific example of "multiple paths" as far as you see them? > The end goal of any installer should be "system up and running." Likewise, > they all have the same starting point..."no sys

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott wrote: > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > > It's very straight-forward, and as long as you know a little about your > > system (at least the module you use for your ethernet device), Debian will > > install no problem. > > Hmmm. What about the 99.9% of the population

RE: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

> -Original Message- > From: Benjamin Scott [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 8:59 PM > To: Greater NH Linux Users' Group > Subject: Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner? > > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote:

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > It's very straight-forward, and as long as you know a little about your > system (at least the module you use for your ethernet device), Debian will > install no problem. Hmmm. What about the 99.9% of the population who does not know what module you

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott said: > On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jeffry Smith wrote: > >> dpkg got itself tied into knots W.R.T. dependency ordering on large > >> installs when I tried Debian 2.2. > > > > Wow. Care to post some of how you managed that? I've done several > > installs of Debian 2.2, never managed tha

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Jeffry Smith wrote: >> dpkg got itself tied into knots W.R.T. dependency ordering on large >> installs when I tried Debian 2.2. > > Wow. Care to post some of how you managed that? I've done several > installs of Debian 2.2, never managed that. I don't recall the details,

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott said: > On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > > Granted thats not Red Hats fault at all, but it just makes more sense that > > if you start off using a system like Slackware, you HAVE to learn > > everything about the system and Linux, because theres nothing to hold your >

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

In a message dated: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:28:26 EST Jeffry Smith said: >That's why I recommend to people they try out a lot of different distros. >There is no "one" distro. Instead, you have to find the one that works the >way you do. Whichever one it is. And I've found they are all pretty mu

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Jerry Feldman said: > Somethimes, the choice of distros gets into a religious war. A couple of > reasons I personally favor SuSE is that I can do virtually all my system > admin work using YaST. (Specifically YaST1). Additionally, YaST can be > used to check updates and patches. You navigate do

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > > Too long?? I can get Debian installed on a system in about 5 minutes, and thats WITH > the reboot. Wow! I gave up after two weeks. I'm having MUCH better luck with Slackware. > > ** > To u

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Actually, most of the system admin stuff you need is in /etc/rc.config (as is Compaq's Tru64). You can easily edit that directly or through YaST. YaST keeps a shadow copy. Most everything is in a reasonably standard place. The init scripts are all in /sbin/init.d (or /etc/rc.d/init.d). You can

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Jerry Feldman wrote: > Somethimes, the choice of distros gets into a religious war. A couple of > reasons I personally favor SuSE is that I can do virtually all my system [snip] > > checked off. For each RPM, you will be prompted to backup the currently > installed version when the installation

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Derek Martin wrote: > Their installer SUCKS! It's ugly, non-intuitive, and slow (I don't mean Their installer can't suck that bad when I've installed Debian on hundreds of boxes and on all types of hardware (everything from x86 to sparc to ppc)... they are obviously doing something right... >

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Somethimes, the choice of distros gets into a religious war. A couple of reasons I personally favor SuSE is that I can do virtually all my system admin work using YaST. (Specifically YaST1). Additionally, YaST can be used to check updates and patches. You navigate down to the Install Packages

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Mark Komarinski said: > Tony Lambiris wrote: > > > > Benjamin Scott wrote: > > > > > > I can't understand why people hate Debian's installer so much. It's very > > straight-forward, and as long as you know a little about your system (at least the > > module you use for your ethernet device), De

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Today, Tony Lambiris gleaned this insight: > Benjamin Scott wrote: > > > Given that past Debian installs have failed to even create a valid base > > installation, I would say, yes, they have improved! They are now at the same > > level as, say, Red Hat Linux 3.x. (In fact, the installers of

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

> On the gripping hand, I'm seriously considering giving SuSE 7.1 a try. Heh..me too. Both on x86 and PPC. > > that is why I use 6.2, with the updated RPMs, and the perpetually insecure > > software (sendmail, wu-ftpd, BIND) > > > I'm curious... do you h

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Tony Lambiris wrote: > > Benjamin Scott wrote: > > > I can't understand why people hate Debian's installer so much. It's very > straight-forward, and as long as you know a little about your system (at least the > module you use for your ethernet device), Debian will install no problem. What do

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott wrote: > > REDHAT! it never worksever... > > Given that Red Hat remains, by far, the most popular Linux distribution in > use, and that Linux continues to gain market share, I'm going to have to > disagree. Me too. Red Hat is a nice linux distro to recommend to new linux us

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott wrote: > Given that past Debian installs have failed to even create a valid base > installation, I would say, yes, they have improved! They are now at the same > level as, say, Red Hat Linux 3.x. (In fact, the installers of RHL 3.x and > Debian 2.2 are remarkably similar.) How

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Mon, 19 Feb 2001, Benjamin Scott wrote: > On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Kurth Bemis wrote: > > redhat is bloatware...i'm sorry to sayi had redhat on this system > > before and it was slow and crashed all the time...(well gnome did) >

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott Said: > On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Karl J. Runge wrote: > >> In the past, the [Debian] installs have been truly horrid, but things have > >> improved to the point where they are only mildly unpleasant. > > > > Has it really improved, or have you just gotten used to the bumps in the > > r

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

Benjamin Scott said: > The default GNOME system uses Enlightenment, which is very resource > intensive (by design), and is somewhat unstable (not by design). In your > case, I would recommend invoking the "GNOME Control Center", going to Desktop > -> Window Manager, and choosing "Window Maker"

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Peter Cavender wrote: > I hear all this RedHat bashing from people, but I must say I like it. Here, here! ;-) > It is s breeze, it is highly customizable,and it WORKS. Ultimately, this is what it comes down to for me. At the end of the day, when all is said and done,

Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Kurth Bemis wrote: > my first 15 installs with debian was a total nightmare. the first 15 > times was in a week span. I couldn't get anything to work...then all of > the sudden it worked. Talk about damning with faint praise... > REDHAT! it never worksever... Giv

Re: Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Karl J. Runge wrote: >> In the past, the [Debian] installs have been truly horrid, but things have >> improved to the point where they are only mildly unpleasant. > > Has it really improved, or have you just gotten used to the bumps in the > road and now instinctivly know how

Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Kurth Bemis wrote: > redhat is bloatware...i'm sorry to sayi had redhat on this system > before and it was slow and crashed all the time...(well gnome did) ^^ > with debian in about a half hour i had installe

Hardware and linux [was Re: Warning Banner?]

Benjamin Scott wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > > Plus it is running on a laptop, which is probably the most obnoxious thing to > > install Linux on in the first place. > > Try anything from Compaq... Hmmm - we've actually had quite good luck from our Compaq 3500 servers

[Fwd: [Fwd: Up2Date (was: Warning Banner?)]]

And here is a response from someone at Red Hat about up2date servers. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar Apache Software Foundation "Apache Server for Dummies" "Apache Server Unleashed"

Re: Up2Date (was: Warning Banner?)

I am on another Linux list here in the Triangle, home of Red Hat, and a bunch of their people hang out there. I have forwarded this idea to that list for some cross-pollination. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar Apache Software Foundation

Re: Hardware and linux [was Re: Warning Banner?]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Cole Tuininga wrote: > Hmmm - we've actually had quite good luck from our Compaq 3500 servers... > They've been taking a beating since they were installed - 197 days and > counting without a single glitch. Oh, they make solid hardware. Damn solid! You could drop one of th

Up2Date (was: Warning Banner?)

First, in an environment where I have multiple RedHat systems of the same vintage, I keep a NFS shared mirror of the "updates" directories. By mounting that tree and running 'rpm -F *' (or your favorite shell trick to avoid clobbering custom packages/kernels/etc), RPM will "Freshen" installed

Distro War - Was Re: Warning Banner?

I hear all this RedHat bashing from people, but I must say I like it. It as much or more than others I have tried (Suse, TurboLinux, Debian, Caldera). Plus the whole installer is very easy to customize. You can make a kickstart file and have it set the basic system settings for you. You ca

Re: Warning Banner?

Derek Martin said: > Today, Tony Lambiris gleaned this insight: > > > Paul Lussier wrote: > > > > > There is no package manager around that is "God's Gift to SysAdmins". In > > > fact, I personally find package managers to be a curse :) > > > > very true, but its s much easier to do ap

Re: Warning Banner?

Today, Tony Lambiris gleaned this insight: > Paul Lussier wrote: > > > There is no package manager around that is "God's Gift to SysAdmins". In > > fact, I personally find package managers to be a curse :) > > very true, but its s much easier to do apt-get -u update, > instead of downl

Re: Warning Banner?

Paul Lussier wrote: > There is no package manager around that is "God's Gift to SysAdmins". In > fact, I personally find package managers to be a curse :) very true, but its s much easier to do apt-get -u update, instead of downloading all RPM updates, then finding out which RPMs are al

Re: Warning Banner?

In a message dated: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:02:16 EST Benjamin Scott said: >That, and I don't find APT to be God's Gift to System Admins the way >some people say it is. In other words, it doesn't live up to the hype. >But then, what does? :) There is no package manager around that is "God's Gift t

Re: Warning Banner?

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Benjamin Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I actually don't dislike Debian as much as my ranting would indicate. In > the past, the installs have been truly horrid, but things have improved to the > point where they are only mildly unpleasant. Has it really improved,

Re: Warning Banner?

At 04:02 PM 2/13/2001, Benjamin Scott wrote: >On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > > Plus it is running on a laptop, which is probably the most obnoxious > thing to > > install Linux on in the first place. > > Try anything from Compaq... Try anything from Compaqand it still does

Re: Warning Banner?

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001, Tony Lambiris wrote: > Plus it is running on a laptop, which is probably the most obnoxious thing to > install Linux on in the first place. Try anything from Compaq... > I personally think Debian is the easiest to install... I actually don't dislike Debian as much as my

Re: Warning Banner?

erm... apl@orion:~$ cat /etc/debian_version testing/unstable apl@orion:~$ uname -a Linux orion 2.4.1 #6 Tue Feb 6 20:41:20 EST 2001 i686 unknown Plus it is running on a laptop, which is probably the most obnoxious thing to install Linux on in the first place. I personally think Debian is the easi

Re: Warning Banner?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Tom Laurie wrote: > Some Government Systems have a need for this: How can you place a warning > banner on the machine at startup, before login begins, and again, at telnet > connection, before user login starts? Also, /etc/motd (Message Of The Day) can be usef

Re: Warning Banner?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Kurth Bemis wrote: >> /etc/issue & /etc/issue.net? >> >> May be overwritten by rc scripts depending on your distro. > > redhat doesbut if your using a REAL linux distro (read:DEBIAN) it > doesn't :-) #ifdef SENSE_OF_HUMOR Right, because one can never actually get Deb

Re: Warning Banner?

In a message dated: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:12:55 EST "Tilly, Lawrence" said: >Isn't that what the "Welcome to Windows" banner is for? Yeah, but isn't it against the EULA to modify that ;) -- Seeya, Paul It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really activ

Re: Warning Banner?

Bob Bell wrote: > > How about editing the source from a source RPM? After rebuilding > the source RPM, you've got both a patch to submit to the maintainer, > and a working version that should match your (new) RPM checksum > checks. Now *there* is a thought.. I try to avoid munging GPLed code,

Re: Warning Banner?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > the login: prompt is issued by getty. I do not believe that is the case for telnet and other network sessions.. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar Apache Software Foundation "Apache Server for Dummies"

Re: Warning Banner?

On Mon, Feb 12, 2001 at 03:11:04PM -0500, Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Peter Cavender wrote: > > > > Hack the source for login. Not too hard. I've customized mingetty > > and login on RedHat. I can help if you need. What distro you running? > > Eeuw. Unfortunately, si

Re: Warning Banner?

Peter Cavender wrote: > > Hack the source for login. Not too hard. I've customized mingetty > and login on RedHat. I can help if you need. What distro you running? Eeuw. Unfortunately, since /bin/login is one of the main cracker target files, this will always cause my security checks to show

Re: Warning Banner?

> > On a related note, how may one change the 'login: ' prompt? > > -- > > Hurm, hexedit login? Check the source? Or maybe /etc/gettydefs? the login: prompt is issued by getty. The "mingetty" used on Red Hat systems appears to have it hard-coded. If you're using getty-ps or one of the others

Re: Warning Banner?

>On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: > > > On a related note, how may one change the 'login: ' prompt? > > -- > >Hurm, hexedit login? Check the source? Or maybe /etc/gettydefs? > >Not sure either. ;) > Hack the source for login. Not too hard. I've customized mingetty and login

Re: Warning Banner?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: > On a related note, how may one change the 'login: ' prompt? > -- Hurm, hexedit login? Check the source? Or maybe /etc/gettydefs? Not sure either. ;) -- Niall Kavanagh, [EMAIL PROTECTED] News, articles, and resources for web professionals an

Re: Warning Banner?

On a related note, how may one change the 'login: ' prompt? -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar Apache Software Foundation "Apache Server for Dummies" "Apache Server Unleashed"

Re: Warning Banner?

> > Some Government Systems have a need for this: How can you place a warning > > banner on the machine at startup, before login begins, and again, at telnet > > connection, before user login starts? > > > >/etc/issue & /etc/issue.net? > >May be overwritte

Re: Warning Banner?

At 02:39 PM 2/12/2001, Niall Kavanagh wrote: >On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Tom Laurie wrote: > > > Some Government Systems have a need for this: How can you place a warning > > banner on the machine at startup, before login begins, and again, at telnet > > connection,

RE: Warning Banner?

Isn't that what the "Welcome to Windows" banner is for? -Larry > -Original Message- > From: Tom Laurie [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:05 PM > To: Gnhlug (E-mail) > Subject: Warning Banner? > > Some Governmen

Re: Warning Banner?

1, Tom Laurie wrote: > Some Government Systems have a need for this: How can you place a > warning banner on the machine at startup, before login begins, and > again, at telnet connection, before user login starts? > > Tom Laurie > NH Office of Emergency Management > System

Re: Warning Banner?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001, Tom Laurie wrote: > Some Government Systems have a need for this: How can you place a warning > banner on the machine at startup, before login begins, and again, at telnet > connection, before user login starts? > /etc/issue & /etc/issue.net? May be o

Re: Warning Banner?

That would be /etc/issue and /etc/issue.net The /etc/issue is read if it's a local (i.e. tty or ttyS) connection, and /etc/issue.net is read if it's a network connection. -Mark Tom Laurie wrote: > > Some Government Systems have a need for this: How can you place a warning

Warning Banner?

Some Government Systems have a need for this: How can you place a warning banner on the machine at startup, before login begins, and again, at telnet connection, before user login starts? Tom Laurie NH Office of Emergency Management Systems Manager 603 223-3617