cornofolks-
I have been spending some time at the local university working on my music
teaching credential. During some of this time, my Merker was in the shop for
some valve work.
I asked if I could borrow a 'beater' horn to play on in the band and was
permitted to try out all of the
I would like to take this opportunity to remember another fine horn player-my
friend Ned Treuenfels who lived in Los Angeles. Ned was also an 'overworked'
hornist; doing studios from one end of L.A. to another-sometimes 3 or 4 gigs in
one day.
He was driving on the freeway when he fell
Drew McManus rightly highlights a recent Saturday Night Live joke: During a
concert of the Virginia Symphony at the 400th anniversary celebration of the
founding of Jamestown, President Bush briefly took over conducting the
orchestra, which explains why the orchestra is now $4 trillion in
date: Sat, 19 May 2007 23:54:31 -0700 (PDT)
from: matthew scheffelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: [Hornlist] Common Intonation woes, Atonal..Overtone
series.
I seriously agree. The kids are not being taught what they need to know for
later on. They are being tossed crappy
I.had.a.little.accident.yesterdaymy.chops.blew.up.before.a.concertthere.was.no.apparent.reason.at.first;then.I
found.it.was.due.to.a.new.lipgloss
that,unbeknownst.to.me,.had.that.lip.plumper.stuff.in.it.//this.is.why.Paris.Hilton.does.not.play.corno.
I.had.no.buzz.hWhatsoever.for.2.hrs.
idiocy and lousy arrangers aside, Is there someone who is willing to concur
without using names that some famous movie score composers 'owe' their fame to
ghost writers?
or is this a question that should not be asked in public?
___
post:
Has anyone ever performed 1st horn in a concert where you have not been seated
to the left of the section?
inquiring and experienced minds would like to know.
if you wish to pm this one; you may pm to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
thanks
Rachel Harvey
___
I heard that in Germany, they pour beer in a horn to 'season' it. The idea was
to get that nice 'green slime' on the inside of the pipe, thereby making the
hornist 'sound better'.
I have no idea nor proof that this works.
on the other hand, Germans do better to feed beer to their crying
corno folk
I have never had the desire to analyze what happens before, during, or after a
long range jump on the horn.
The same thing goes for analyzing pitch; are you going to be watching your
tuner's needle while you are doing that Mahler 5 solo?
My own method for long horn jumps is to focus
The Verne Reynolds 48 Etudes includes some very nice bass clef solos.
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this is fun
http://www.lulliloodesign.com/figaro_tunes.htm
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Hornfolks
Does anyone know who made a Bruckner 4 recording in the 50's?
thanks
Rachel Harvey
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Hornfolks
It is to be noted that email personas can and do vary widely from actual 'in
your
face' personas. Some tend to write as though the 'audience' were invisible,
devoid of feeling, and incapable of defending themselves. This thought
process backfires upon the originator almost every time
from: Steven Ovitsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snipt
Rental parts are available
from Schott.
Thank you. I'll check this out; one of my orchestras is most interested in
doing these. I had also heard that Erich Leinsdorf did these at some
point in
Does anyone know who publishes specifically any and/or all of the tone
poems from the 4 operas for symphony orchestra?
If so, are the parts for sale or rental only?
thank you
Rachel Harvey
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I apologize to Klaus and to Chris (and to anyone else) for attempting to make a
correction to their posts in a language which is not my native speech, but which
I have a true affection for. Whatever; I should keep my mouth shut on things
that are not HR.
I was curious, nothing more, on this.
HUMOUR/FICTION FOUR OF FOUR
The Principal Horn
_
Expresses feelings over tuning A by stepping on Principal Oboe's reeds
Is threatened in return with serious bodily harm by Principal Oboe
Introduces a formal complaint to Conductor regarding Principal Oboe's language
Discovers
from: Klaus Bjerre [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We shall not discuss neither religion
ok
Today I am the conservative, as I am
very close to the Old Testament style Jews.
This is no problem.
I do not sit in judgment of any religion whatsoever.
I told, that I was not ashamed of being a Jew
although I am
Hornfolks
Okay, this may be a bit esoteric for some; but for those who are curious,
please feel free to read on
I posted a paper on this subject about 8 years ago on the spock list. I believe
it may be worth revisiting the subject. If I can locate the original paper, I
will
repost it.
Hornfolks:
In the 1st movement of Tchaik 4 (the beginning and the horn soli beginning with
the written C#, an FF and FFF are presented, respectively.
I personally believe that after a certain dynamic, it does not make much of a
difference what dynamic the horns are playing-just that it happens
Mahler 2 comes to mind in the following verses from Revelations:
..my apologies for not mentioning HORN in this one..
REV 8:2,6
2: And I saw seven angels which stood before GOD; and to them were given seven
TRUMPETS
6: And the seven angels which had the seven TRUMPETS prepared themselves to
from: Howard Sanner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: Re: [Hornlist] Standing Mic vs. Contact Mic
By blowing their board they probably mean overloading the input
stage of the microphone preamps. They should be able to patch an
attenuator pad between the microphone and the board to take care
of
from: Bernabe Flores [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: [Hornlist] Bible sayings
Hi! Can anyone please repost the bible sayings about the horn and trumpets
again?? I don't know if there's a site about this..Thanks!
Hello-
I do not recall seeing an original post on this-so I will offer just one here.
from: Hans.Pizka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Jim Winter
Jim Winter was a man of a vast knowledge not only regarding
the horn.snipI miss this distinguished
professor very much.
To the wagnertubas:
They are not out of tune but seem to be so
Thanks Hans. I can certainly use
Hornfolks:
I have been in a dispute with the sound engineers of a weekly gig I play;
particularly the fact that all of the brass have contact mics except for me (I
am
the only horn).
The sound engineers insist that if I were to have a contact mic that my sound
would 'blow their board'.
from: Steve Tarter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have just heard that the horn world has lost another great
statesman...snipt
James Winter (a former teacher, mentor and friendsnipt
Hornfolks:
Jim's kindly intervention is one big reason I still play horn today. He was
playing in the Fresno Philharmonic
HUMOUR/FICTION THREE OF FOUR
Tuba, Timpanist, Keyboardist, Harp, Soloist
_
The Tuba
Listens to the Trombone section squabbling and is grateful to be a Tuba player
Speaks to the Tuba and listens with interest to the Tuba's reply
Has a pint of EverClear in Tuba case
Spends quality
HUMOUR/FICTION TWO OF FOUR
Principal Flute,Oboe,Clarinet,
Bassoon,Trumpet,Trombone
_
The Principal Flute
Watches Principal Oboe for the beat
Believes that the tuning note should be changed from an A to a C
Twirls Flute during break as portion
of Drum Majorette fantasy
Spends
HUMOUR/FICTION PART ONE OF FOUR
Conductor, Concertmaster, Principal 2nd, Viola, Cello, Bass
__
The Conductor
Ignores orders given by Concertmaster
Has a secret crush on Harp
Keeps a low profile around Principal Horn
Is allergic to chocolate
Has cell
rsaylor wrote about onions vs. horn
Howdy rl, howdy hornfolks:
I do not wish to make a big deal about this. Suffice to say that
if you peel onions under running water, your eyes will not hurt. Ever.
Everyone on this list knows:
If you take necessary warmups and precautions, you can play
__
from: Leonard Peggy Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
about 98% of our high school graduates putting their instruments
away forever the day after graduation.
My h.s. band director cared enough to work with me every weekday after school
for state honor
Hornfolks: (full time pros may ignore this)
Do you remember the days when NP orchestras allowed us
to participate FREE of charge?
This is probably in-line with the concert band funding thread. It is
indeed a crying shame that the same communities who will
gladly fund a rock concert, will balk
from: JerryJ
I just wanted to set the record straight:
from: harveycor
referencing original response to Snapfoo
__
from: Jerry J
naptha
from: harveycor
QUICK fix
__
from: JerryJ
minor carcinogen
from: harveycor
lighter
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Hornlist] Gig Bag
quick recommendations for a gig bag to take on an airplane?
Holton cut bell case
Hi Kim-
When I bought my (Holton)Millennium Merker in 2000, it came with a
square hard case that had been especially measured designed to fit
into one of those
from: Snapfoo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: [Hornlist] Sticky Valves?
my first valve and occasionally my Bb trigger will stick
Any advice?
Hi Chris-
Here is what I would do personally and good luck!
__
1) If I were a brand new hornist and my valves stuck
for the
I am looking for those little cylinders used for horn 'bumper stops',
made up of either cork, neoprene, or the cork-neoprene
compressed compound.
Pls private mail me if you know where I can get some of these.
Thank you.
Rachel Harvey
___
post:
horn flies through windshield snipt
I was curious after reading this-so I opened my horn case, took out
just the (cut) bell and, gently, tapped the outside with my index
finger.
The fundamental is the B 1/2 step below piano middle concert C.
It is 1/4 tone sharp.
The single overtone is the C 2
I do not get the horn wagnertuba story.
Why did you use completely
different mouthpieces for the two instruments ?
Hans, In my post, I said I had no idea that I was using two different
mouthpieces.
The person who lent me both the tuba and the mouthpieces insisted that both
were identical.
Have fun listening to your car the next time on the freeway:
My car: The engine produces 3 tones (possibly a 4th)
The (audible)fundamental is approximately 2 octaves below middle C
The next overtone is two octaves above the fundamental
The second overtone is a sixth above the first overtone
My vote: *bad*
I cannot recommend any hornist use multiple different mouthpieces at the same
rehearsal/performance or even within hours/days of each other-except if the
person is a mouthpiece maker or testing many varieties before purchasing.
The serendipitous occasion:
Subject: Tokyo Horn Club Recital
This is a repost of an article I sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date was: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:49:11 -0800
TOKYO HORN CLUB RECITAL
Featuring hornists from professional ensembles in Tokyo.
Sunday, April 19, 7:00 P.M. Casals Hall (near Ochanomizu Station)
Tokyo, Japan
Doesn't 'keelhaul' mean: toss a drunken or incapacitated sailor into the brig?
Kjellrun:
scuppers-throw drunken sailor
SCUTTLES-pirates sink boat
Cabbge:
scuppers-is it a word?
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Lookup done in Wiki:
SCUPPERS-Cabbage, you were right; it's indeed a word.
SCUTTLE-sorry, what should have been said: SCUTTLEBUTT.
Definition:
___
The nautical term Scuttlebutt originally (and still) means a water fountain or
water cask on a
Rachel, for the SEVEN horns in Mahler 1 (we do not use an
assistant) and other 8-horn-pieces we prefer sitting in two
rows, as it allows a better blending each other than sitting
Hans, either way is ok. It depends on how much room we have. We only use an
assistant for Mahler 1 or 2. None of
Rachel, you generalize too much even you have played a lot
your aspect is different to the real pro. Pro means full
time professional, full season
Hans, this is the third time you are attempting to remind me that you are a pro
and I am not. I am not stupid.
What you said to me has absolutely
(hasn't every hornist out there done this piece at least once?)
commentary is made based assuming (probably incorrectly) one instrument per
part, except there are definitely two horns
a) bassoon quite sharp to ensemble 90% of the time
b) 1st (2nd?) horn(s) consistently sharp on concert F;
Hans-
Do you think (that I think...) the horns prefer sitting next to the timpani?
The timpani were not close to the horns-they were about 6 feet to the right of
the 4th horn.
from: Hans.Pizka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
it is INSANE to have the timpani in the back of the horns
Despite all attempts to
Hans-
I have never heard of the Quoniam.
I have performed the 1st horn part of Brandenburg 1 about 6 times, all on a
Conn 8D L series.
Where 'light' music is concerned: I did over 600 concerts in foreign orchestras
on that 8D for 3-1/2 years.
80% of the repertoire was comprised of Mozart,
Hornfolks:
While on and off the horn for sometimes over a year at a time, I found the best
therapies to get back in shape/avoid losing what was left are:
1) Running horn licks through one's head (3rd to top pick)
2) Practicing fingerings without the horn (2nd to top pick)
3) Buzzing mouthpiece
Kit-
In retrospect, I believed the mention of the MRI was a major selling point to a
hornist having intonation issues with an 8d.
The proto 'sold itself' by virtue of combining good intonation with the other
qualities that fit my own requirements for a decent horn.
My Merker does have some
date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:27:50 +0100
from: Corenut [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: Tuning/by piano tuner
Hi Paul; I've been out playing the Horn for a change instead of 'posting too
much'. Fancy that. Now if all of us played all of the time; we wouldn't have
this list..
The PP posts I read
date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:50:47 EDT
from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
subject: [Hornlist] RE: Opinions on Pitch
The Cabbage. Physicist, natural horn specialist, regular horn specialist,
composer for voice horn and whatever else, Oreo cookie monster, doesn't like
double-Stuf, has a kid who plays horn
Hi Paul
You bring up some interesting and very esoteric points here and I agree, equal
temperament is at times, favored by pro tuners for whatever reason (I
understand that there ARE different ways to 'temper tune' a piano). I am very
happy to see that *finally* a real piano tuner is giving
Hornfolks: Instead of my making up a lot of posts on these things-, I made 1 or
2 posts combining all of my personal opinions to just about everyone's
questions that I felt that I could provide some feedback upon.
Hence the length of the posts hope you will forgive the length but this
replaces
Hornfolks: Instead of my making up a lot of posts on these things-, I made 1 or
2 posts combining all of my personal opinions to just about everyone's
questions that I felt that I could provide some feedback upon.
Hence the length of the posts hope you will forgive the length but this
replaces
Hornfolks: I am preparing several posts incorporating all of the wonderful
responses, especially where orchestra pranks are concerned and I am going to do
my best NOT to post a LOT, but I wish to respond to this one request:
I do not know of any horn trombone duets; however there IS the
Hornfolks Hans:
I am very aware of Dale's expertise in checking all of the qualities of the
venues he plans to perform in and expecially the way he plans to sound in any
hall; however I'd like to add a little 'something' I heard from Phil Myers
during a master class.
Phil is very good at
Hornfolks:
I 'cop' to writing that very post; that event with Dale happened during a
master class in Mexico City when he invited all of us to sit next to him on
stage while he blasted some triple F passage on his little horn.
Yes, it sounded less than pretty. It was indeed somewhat louder
Hornfolks:
I've read a number of posts mentioning questions about 'what type of horn was
the guy playing; how far away was he; how loud was he; did he have a brassy or
wooly sound, and all the rest of the little things that go into hornplaying.
My call on this one is IF you have got to stop to
Mark Hornfolks
My first answer to Mark's question below is 'who cares?' No one cares, honestly.
I have a lot to say in another planned long post on perfect pitch but would
like to answer this one individually, please.
My opinion explained; it DOES NOT MATTER about 'having a 440=A pitch
Hornfolks:
1) Cabbage is right. Perfect pitch is useless.
2) Mark; get some Oreos from Cabbage. They should help the 25% of pitches you
don't get :} especially the double stuf ones :}}
3) Rebecca; I have a 21 yr old cockatiel who was taught 'Pop Goes the Weasel'
in 1985 by me. He still
ok, I've tortured all of you enough on Mahler 3
Nope
from: Fred Baucom [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm guessing the unison horn line from Shosta. 5th, 1st mvmt
Yup
from: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The theme in the last movement of Brahms 1
___
post:
Hornfolks.
I've been hearing on a certain jazz station that Cuba has the most pro
musicians per capita than anyplace else in the world.
I'm wondering if there are any Cuban hornists on this list?
Rachel
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For Steve; For Carlberg: For Hornfolks:
Steve and Carlberg are both correct regarding the chord 'spelling' issue; one
needs both ear training and music theory for a balanced college curriculum
(music major). I found myself propelled into college with only my perfect
pitch; ruined horn chops
Carlberg; did you never study music theory? I categorically disagree with what
you state only in the stance that the chord is being utilized in a work
someplace; although a person with pitch 'will' hear 'any' spelling; the
TEXTBOOK will designate the correct spelling for that particular
Hornfolks:
Our next planned prank is for the opening of Mahler 3 (the horns of course)
replaced by a very familiar classical theme done during the dress rehearsal.
Can anyone here guess what it is? Shoot me a private mail if you do.
We did it once about 7 years ago and the conductor
NHR:
I hate to post this publicly but my attempts to respond privately to two
individuals failed. Therefore I'll say this only one time:
a) If you don't like my number of postings; hit the Delete key.
b) There is no limit to the number of posts allowed per day/digest.
c) I have only received
Excellent advice Hans: yes one often does have to tune the horn 'on the fly' as
it were.
Rachel
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Hornfolks:
Well if a high AB (written) were to be so deadly as to kill a horn player; I
seriously have my doubts as to that being the cause of the poor guys'demise
(and I have done that work before). Not being an MD; I will not offer even an
'opinion' on this list.
At least let us examine
Hornfolks:
As I stated to a lister (twice) offline, centuries of hornists have done the
deed using their own precious ears. And they have done just fine.
What I have a serious issue with are the 'tuning boxes'. They are not only NOT
in tune with each OTHER; they are a crutch to the hearing
Hornfolks
I 'hear' in advance; much like a sentence what I must play in advance in order
that I may plan the phrasing.
When transposing; I hear the correct pitches as well although I must do a bit
of maneuvering at times to 'get it'. There are some transpositions that I just
get instantly.
Kendall and Hornfolks:
The problems are definitely academic. Witness the plethora of misspelled
'professional' signs on businesses. This is not to mention the mis-usage of
grammar.
I cannot state a firm opinion of musical illieracy except for one thing: the
usage of 'electronic tuning
Josh and Hornfolks
I got in big trouble with music theory because I 'could' hear the chors and
MISSPELLED them as many chords SOUND the same but LOOK different. I did not
believe this for a few years until my teacher sat me down and explained that I
must not 'listen' to the chords; only spell
Hey Cabbage; long time no see either yourself or your progeny and it's been
probably since that 1997 Mahler 1 that I sampled your kind gift of Oreos.
Anyhow, I do agree with you that politics is horn related if you decide to
practice your horn in front of a CNN broadcast. It's bad enough that
Hornfolks:
I do have another 'suggestion' post on the 'pressure question' but I do wish to
relate something I saw on a bulletin board during a music theatre gig.
It related (quite horribly and graphically) the story of a 'screech' trumpet
player who enjoyed a long career until one day, during
Hornfolks:
I viewed a post from an individual who sought to choose between a Yamaha and an
8d (had some issues with both horns).
Now I do not know Yamahas as well as I would like; being an 8d player for 25
years myself. The one thing I was told about the Yamahas was that they
required
Hornfolks:
The thing I wish to state first is if it works, use it. This was one of the
first things my grad school teacher told me and I have never forgotten it.
And the second thing I wish to state is use ONE and only ONE mouthpiece. A
second 'different' mouthpiece will alter and eventually
Hornfolks
Did any of you get to hear the guy from BYU who played the Tsintsades solo at a
Santa Barbara workshop, sometime in 1988?
Flawless! The guy was a world class virtuoso. It was a beautiful piece to
boot!
Rachel
___
post:
I have an original composition called 'Feathers' for flute and horn (viola can
replace horn if wanted). However there are a few issues that need fixing;
therefore I cannot release it as yet:
1) The work was originally intended as an exercise in counterpoint; therefore
it is not 'musically
GEEroniMO!
That 3rd horn; he's not dead. I don't know where he is and do not care to see
him again.
I don't kill horn players for making clams. Yes I have been known to do, and
have a bit of a reputation for yelling at hornplayers who showed up STONED for
a rehearsal, but I think I had the
Hello Walter;
You are not going to like what I am going to say; but I am nothing if not
honest.
I have a Master's degree in horn performance; tested out of English with the
CLEP test.
I may not be a college professor but my English is high level as I worked as an
admin for over 20 years for
Hi Philip
I had a big problem with this as I too get a digest version of the list. There
is a 'bug' in the software that activates at times. What happens to me is that
when I hit the 'reply' button on a digest; all I get is the header; not the
digest which I intended to edit out.
What
ha ha, hate to tell you but real and famous authors DO write in this manner at
times:
Chris, did you not read the Red Dwarf novels by 'Grant Naylor' (an amalgam of
two authors working in conjunction)?
These fellows wrote in this style this ALL of the time and it was terminally
funny. You may
Hans
I do not care one whit about whateve it takes for you to make your point. I
understand you. Everyone else does too. The fussy ones; well you know how to
treat the fussy ones; just like those bad conductors.
You are one of the world class horn players on this list and I respect you
Hello
This is a larger subject than it appears. And, this is HARD, but I will do my
best to give suggestions that you may or may not choose to use:
Before I start: one question: make SURE you are not TONE DEAF. If you are;
none of these options will help you in any way..
Ok, here we
Hey Carlberg
Sorry, I don't get your meaning on this. Do you mean that women brass players
are categorically discriminated against in screened auditions where the proctor
sneaks around and rats out the auditionees to the judges? A woman has to play
sometimes 3X as well as a male hornist in
Being lucky has absolutely nothing to do with it.
best wishes
Rachel Harvey
consider yourself lucky
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sorry Jerry, it's not a Laskey or I'd tell you.
However there are some mouthpiece makers out there who can fine tune your
dimensions to spec. how about Moosewood?
good luck in your searching
Rachel
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Hi
I envy you your conductor. Whatta guy! Can we trade? As long as he doesn't
blame the horns for something THEY didn't do; I'm fine with it.
best
Rachel
bawled out the tubas for something he did himself; apologized to them
afterward
___
post:
Hornfolks:
I know nothing of a 'mechanical' pressure device; however Dr. Philip Farkas
(may he rest in peace) did offer a solution to excessive pressure which worked
well for me.
It is difficult to master; however the benefits are beyond expectations.
Simply place one's horn upon a sturdy flat
Hi.
What horn to purchase? It's easy; the horn that WORKS for you, be it a Holton,
a Conn, a Lawson, whatever (there are so many out there that I have lost count).
And I do not mean trying it out in the store because stores are 'set up' to
make their instruments sound better. It is advisable
NHR: ha hathe gov will only respond to 'real' or 'perceived' threats made
to them, specifically the prez in their own special manner (much of which you
will never hear about unless they should perhaps raid your home (always
requires a warrant btw) (and a phone tap always requires a warrant
NHR: Scammers:
1) When I even see a scam on my mail list, I automatically report it unread as
most of them are for products that are either unpronounceable or that I am
uninterested in.
2) Should I entertain interest in the 'scammer's' product; until the $ is
firmly deposited either in my
How about this one? It's rather old, but some may enjoy.
This IS the SYMPhony...that SCHUbert wrote and never FINished.
There is also one about Mozart 40 but I cannot recall it. When I do, you shall
know about it.
Moreover; if one wishes to make a really funny joke on a conductor
Hornfolks; I hope you get this; I messed up on the addressing. Sorry.
---BeginMessage---
A message (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) was received at 13 May 2006 21:47:53 +.
The following addresses had delivery problems:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Permanent Failure: 550_[EMAIL
1) He must have been a mellophone player in an earlier life. I have an
absolute aversion to mellos (well apologies to the mello fans on this list but
I must be honest). Why in the world would anyone want to feel like they were
playing the valves upside down? Is this guy dyslexic?
2) I have
Hornfolks; I know most of you are tired as all get out of this thread, but I
did try to put my 2 cents in and the message was bounced for some reason. I
did work it out with the sysadmin though.
Here is my take.
1) Threads. Wipe them with a soft cloth. Put nothing on them. Gently attach
Hornfolks: I shall attempt to circumspectly address 4 issues:
1) Attitude re: screw bell. No one is required or expected to take my advice
on anything at anytime and is invited to dispute anything I say offline or even
online if you want 800 people to read it. I shall read everything I am
from: Hans.Pizka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
agree
C-onductor, C-olleagues, C-ritics, C-omposers
I never screamed. And have not for decadesnor have I exhibited any kind of
dispute other than a simple request for perhaps another tuning A.
I also would never show this behavior in a true
Mahler 5 is bigger than the man. It is possessed by no one. Mahler didn't
compose it--he, the prophet, revealed it to us!
Hornfolks: As far as I have witnessed; all Mahler symphonies are referred to
without the apostrophe and the possessive. As far as I am concerned; they
belong to
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