snip---
It all depends what your structure is. If it was me and I was say the
head of IT where you are, I would appoint the team-lead sysprog( someone
with all the credentials) first, and let him select his team... I have
seen it many times, and this would be
, and
that they struggle to fill the positions, but forget about the
consequences if they disregard his 'lead'.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
Sent: 13 Februarie 2008 02:54 nm
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
Here is my opinion on Z/OS system programer staffing.
When I decided to start looking for a new JOB in the mainframe world, I
found
that many companies were looking for System Programmer Gods that knew
about everything. This surprised me because I
Thanks so much for all your input, it is very much appreciated!
Mary :-)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Van Dalsen, Herbie
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:01 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:33 PM, Yukus, Mary J CIV USMEPCOM wrote:
Thanks so much for all your input, it is very much appreciated!
Mary :-)
Yukas:
Don't forget that some(quite a few) installations promote past the
level of competence. It is I believed called the Peter Principal.
Ed
Eric Bielefeld wrote:
I think many of the estimates people have givin on this thread seem really high for the number of sysprogs to staff a z/OS site. At PH, for the last 10 years or so, we had 3 sysprogs. We only had a 115 MIP machine, so were very small.
We're a small shop too. We run a
I worked as a systems programmer for 2 years when I was hired by Marine Bank in
the middle of 3 levels. I became a Senior Systems Programmer after 2 years
there, or a total of 4 years. I don't know what's normal, or whats normal now.
Eric
Yukus wrote:
What would all of you consider a
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:15:55 -0500, Burrell, C. Todd
(CDC/OCOO/ITSO) (CTR) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
1) Install ANY OEM product with no help.
2) Install z/OS or another Serverpac with no help.
3) Debug a dump with no help.
4) Do at least some minimal assembler coding
5) Understand and be
PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
What would all of you consider a senior level systems programmer (how
many years of experience) ?
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On Feb 12, 2008, at 9:40 AM, Frank Alequin wrote:
Here is my opinion on Z/OS system programer staffing.
When I decided to start looking for a new JOB in the mainframe
world, I found
that many companies were looking for System Programmer Gods that knew
about everything. This surprised me
system programmer staffing
Here is my opinion on Z/OS system programer staffing.
When I decided to start looking for a new JOB in the mainframe world, I found
that many companies were looking for System Programmer Gods that knew
about everything. This surprised me because I had enough work
On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:34:15 -1000, Stephen Y Odo wrote:
...snipped...
I think we're overworked. But the plan was that we'd only have to carry
this workload for 5 years and then the mainframe would be gone and we'd
go back to normal workloads when we get integrated into our 18-man
The expert in the eyes of HR sounds appropriate. Perhaps that is why he got
the interview in the first place.
As for waiting until a subsequent interview. Not there. He was interviewed by
all parties involved in one session, including the IMS Systems Programmer who
was soon to be, and
Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Yukus, Mary J CIV USMEPCOM
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
What would all of you consider a senior level systems programmer (how
I never thought about his retirement like that, but it does describe him. He,
like me, loves what he does and would hate to do anything else.
As for being secure, perhaps. I do know he wants to move on so he can settle
down, whatever that means. If they were to call back, I do know he would
Franky,
Don't worry about it be happy.
Actually that odd thoughts regarding to location and nationality .. are
changing. Every day more and more recruiters are looking for ZOS people with
expertise and willing to relocation (not a country passport or privileged
community members) ...
@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
Companies may be looking for System Programmer Gods..., but they only
seem willing to pay for newbies.
An associate has been looking to move on for some time now. If, IF, he
gets to speak with someone at the hiring company (3 out of 14) they
either
of the
pack.
Regards
Herbie
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Bielefeld
Sent: 12 Februarie 2008 04:07 nm
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
I think many of the estimates people have givin
Companies may be looking for System Programmer Gods..., but they only seem
willing to pay for newbies.
An associate has been looking to move on for some time now. If, IF, he gets to
speak with someone at the hiring company (3 out of 14) they either reject him
out of hand because, he believes,
I think many of the estimates people have givin on this thread seem really high
for the number of sysprogs to staff a z/OS site. At PH, for the last 10 years
or so, we had 3 sysprogs. We only had a 115 MIP machine, so were very small.
I know of a couple of companies in Milwaukee, where the
Here is my opinion on Z/OS system programer staffing.
When I decided to start looking for a new JOB in the mainframe world, I found
that many companies were looking for System Programmer Gods that knew
about everything. This surprised me because I had enough work only working
with
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gary Green
Companies may be looking for System Programmer Gods..., but
they only seem willing to pay for newbies.
An associate has been looking to move on for some time now.
If, IF, he gets to speak with
List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf
Of Luis Miguel Martinez Chavez
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
Ideal:
ZOS small shops.
Few and small local/distributed applications, few LPARS, few ISV products, No
Datasharing
] Subject
.EDU Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
02/11/2008 03:37
We have a shop about your size it sounds like. We do it with 2.5. Combined
experience 70 + years. We also do not have Oracle, rather DB2, and no
zLinux. It is not enough to stay current with releases.
Thanks, Dave Hanson
464-8889
] On Behalf
Of Luis Miguel Martinez Chavez
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
Ideal:
ZOS small shops.
Few and small local/distributed applications, few LPARS, few ISV products, No
Datasharing, One Sysplex, few CICS and DB2
* If your shop support some clients (outsourcing)
I have some major issues with outsourcing:
1. You lose control of upgrades an tech currency.
2. The service provider keeps you at the absolute minimum level of hardware
software.
3. They downgrade the staff skill set, experience, salary.
4.
Current administration is again considering outsourcing
Many companies fall in the trap, after a 'successful' out-sourcing excercise,
of asking the wrong question:
What else can we out-source?
The correct question is:
What is the best mix of in-sourced out-sourced functions that best meet
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Ford
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 4:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
John,
I know several shops who outsourced and a few years
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
* If your shop support some clients (outsourcing)
I have
I am fixing one point
* Some shops try to have one *team* for z/OS, IBM and ISV software
cloning for new realeses while having other *team* in a daily basis
operations support.
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Another concerns to mention:
* If your shop support some clients (outsourcing)
* Several IBM operating systems on the boxes: zVM, zVSE, zLinux, zOS.
* A lot of virtual machines.
* Some shops try to have one equipment for z/OS, IBM and ISV software
cloning for new realeses while having other
On Feb 11, 2008, at 11:25 AM, Yukus, Mary J CIV USMEPCOM wrote:
Can anyone point me in the direction of where to find a good (but
minimum)
estimate for staffing systems programmers (with various experience
levels)
to perform all functions of a systems programmer, including
installations of
product installations
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Staller, Allan
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
Although the relationship is not linear
Although the relationship is not linear, there is also the issue of
complexity to be dealt with.
At one shop I worked, (10 sysplexs, 44 LPARs, 20+ CECs), the CICS person
was
Actually 5 people). The z/OS sysprog was 8 and the Oracle(DB2/IMS)
person was 6.
In my current environment, all of the
] On
Behalf Of Yukus, Mary J CIV USMEPCOM
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 12:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: z/OS system programmer staffing
Can anyone point me in the direction of where to find a good (but
minimum)
estimate for staffing systems programmers (with various experience
levels
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:20:06 +, Ted MacNEIL
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the installation has a fair amount of mods to the OS then increase
the number of sysprogs. How many well it depends on the complexity
of the mods and other things.
I hope you mean exits!
...
Unfortuantely, mods are
On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:34 PM, Luis M Martinez wrote:
Another concerns to mention:
* If your shop support some clients (outsourcing)
* Several IBM operating systems on the boxes: zVM, zVSE, zLinux, zOS.
* A lot of virtual machines.
* Some shops try to have one equipment for z/OS, IBM and ISV
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
John,
I know several shops who outsourced and a few years later took their
environment back because of poor service levels..Too many
only see the
bottom line...
Regards,
Scott
IDF
Been there too. The company that I
I know several shops who outsourced and a few years later took their
environment back because of poor service levels..Too many only see the
bottom line...
But, poor service levels impact the bottom line.
Most out-sourcing arrangements don't see that until after the dirty deed is
done.
-
, John
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 5:02 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS system programmer staffing
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 3:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
If the installation has a fair amount of mods to the OS then increase the
number of sysprogs. How many well it depends on the complexity of the mods and
other things.
I hope you mean exits!
I haven't seen a shop with mods in a long time.
I worked with an Operations manager (just before XA), who
On Feb 11, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Ted MacNEIL wrote:
If the installation has a fair amount of mods to the OS then
increase the number of sysprogs. How many well it depends on the
complexity of the mods and other things.
I hope you mean exits!
I haven't seen a shop with mods in a long time.
I
Ideal:
ZOS small shops.
Few and small local/distributed applications, few LPARS, few ISV products, No
Datasharing, One Sysplex, few CICS and DB2 regions/subsystems: 5 up to 10
sysprogs.
ZOS medium shops.
Local, distributed and Web applications, 10-20 LPARS, less than 10 ISV
products,
Can anyone point me in the direction of where to find a good (but minimum)
estimate for staffing systems programmers (with various experience levels)
to perform all functions of a systems programmer, including installations of
OS and vendor software, applying maintenance, troubleshooting errors,
On Feb 11, 2008, at 4:40 PM, Patrick O'Keefe wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:20:06 +, Ted MacNEIL
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the installation has a fair amount of mods to the OS then
increase
the number of sysprogs. How many well it depends on the complexity
of the mods and other things.
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:27:53 -0800, Edward Jaffe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
... We have libraries concatenated in front of
SYS1.LINKLIST and ...
I don't have that library on any of my systems.
...
I, of course, meant SYS1.LINKLIB in the linklist concatenation.
And the problem I refered to
Patrick O'Keefe wrote:
... We have libraries concatenated in front of
SYS1.LINKLIST and ...
I don't have that library on any of my systems.
--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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