Florin Patan florinpa...@gmail.com schrieb:
- lack of clear documentation about the internals: you really can't
tell me that the docs out there are clear because I did a bunch of
searching for them and I'm pretty good at finding stuff
You are welcome to improve the documentation and make it
e 12/09/2013 07:40, Daniel Brown a écrit :
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha seva.lap...@gmail.com wrote:
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
On 09/12/2013 06:43 AM, Philip Sturgeon wrote:
As for the comments about the FIG made by others, I agree with Larry
in that we're doing a pretty good job at trying to build on the
example set forward by internals. Self moderation and workflow are two
important factors to the group, and I
Le 12/09/2013 07:40, Daniel Brown a écrit :
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha seva.lap...@gmail.com wrote:
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
Authorities don't run away.
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Pascal Chevrel pascal.chev...@free.frwrote:
e 12/09/2013 07:40, Daniel Brown a écrit :
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha seva.lap...@gmail.com
wrote:
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
assign tasks to. We have volunteers who work on things they need or find
fun to work on. We can't possibly provide a solid road map two (I assume
you mean major) versions out.
The conflict here is the
Why not both?
The list should and will remain, but I see no issue in using the same
inbox to start/reply-to a thread; it's been done, it can be done!
And I don't think it's just about keeping people who like one or the
other more, but rather allowing a quick read over the conversation in
a
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 4:46 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf ras...@lerdorf.com wrote:
On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
- lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
what's in the next two versions of php from now
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
assign tasks to. We have volunteers who work on things they need or find
fun to work on. We can't possibly provide a solid
Le 12/09/2013 04:46, Rasmus Lerdorf a écrit :
On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
- lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
what's in the next two versions of php from now
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
assign tasks
Florin Patan wrote:
That said, maybe after 5.6 release it would be a good time to have a
meeting and talk about future PHP versions and how we get there? I can
suggest Berlin as a place to do it, there's plenty of activity here,
lots of startups using PHP and a pretty nice city.
You see that I
On 12 September 2013 13:43, Pascal Chevrel pascal.chev...@free.fr wrote:
Le 12/09/2013 04:46, Rasmus Lerdorf a écrit :
On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
- lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
what's in the next two versions of php from now
That's
Le 12/09/2013 16:52, Michael Wallner a écrit :
Have you talked to Michael yet and see if he could work on some bugs and/or
feature requests lacking developers?
I'm too much of a donkey to drive PHP alone, but thank you for your
confidence :)
You're welcome ;)
I wasn't thinking of putting
hi Derick,
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Derick Rethans der...@php.net wrote:
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Daniel Basten wrote:
cite: I hope this is a joke.
i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
Not following etiquette is one of the things that annoys people. And you
just
hi Florin,
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Florin Patan florinpa...@gmail.com wrote:
This morning I read something that's not fun:
https://twitter.com/ircmaxell/status/376027280562073600
Yet another good contributor leaves this community (not the whole PHP
community) because of the way
Good day internals,
This morning I read something that's not fun:
https://twitter.com/ircmaxell/status/376027280562073600
Yet another good contributor leaves this community (not the whole PHP
community) because of the way things are done here.
It's true that this is an open source project and
Hello everyone.
I just want to point out one thing about all that internals stuff and
remind about a good idea that has been surfacing a few times through the
years, but now I think it can actually get traction because of recent
problems.
It is based on the fact that there are too many people
Well said, Florin. :)
I'm not a core contributor, I never have been and probably never will be as
I don't know C... but I do follow internals quite keenly. It strikes me
that the biggest problem here is that there's no one entity to decide the
rules of the road, so everything (including the rules
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:44 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
- having a RFC to make a language change requires to have a patch
which if you don't know C and internals you got no chance of doing.
Well, so what should happen? An RFC without patch is accepted and then?
Somebody has to write a patch at
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
It is based on the fact that there are too many people writing to internals
and mailing lists are not actually manageable at this level. I stopped
following all the stuff around a year ago, when I started to get like 15 to
30 maillist
On 09/11/2013 02:46 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote:
So, I think, it's time to move to a forum.
I hope this is a joke.
so do I ...
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hartmut
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cite: I hope this is a joke.
i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
greetings,
daniel
2013/9/11 Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
It is based on the fact that there are too many people writing to
internals
and
On Wednesday 11 September 2013 15:00:33 Daniel Basten wrote:
cite: I hope this is a joke.
i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
Yeah. A forum would be much better, this whole thread could just be
moderated shut and invisible after the first message.
Also a forum would avoid
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Daniel Basten wrote:
cite: I hope this is a joke.
i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
Not following etiquette is one of the things that annoys people. And you
just violated list etiquette it by top-replying.
Derick
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PHP Internals - PHP Runtime
2013/9/11 Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
It is based on the fact that there are too many people writing to
internals
and mailing lists are not actually manageable at this level. I stopped
following all the stuff around a
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 16:26 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf
posted usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts
should be marked as off topic and hidden by default.
I read this as I want a censor
Does this
Arvids Godjuks wrote:
P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf posted
usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts should be
marked as off topic and hidden by default.
But who decides what is off topic.
There are genuine disagreements as to how PHP
In less than 10 posts, this thread descended into people bashing each
other. Perhaps that's telling of something.
I won't comment on the point about forums or anything else, but a concern
brought up repeatedly both here and in various blogs is the lack of
direction or vision. There's a conflict
2013/9/11 Johannes Schlüter johan...@schlueters.de
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 16:26 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf
posted usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts
should be marked as off topic and hidden
2013/9/11 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk
Arvids Godjuks wrote:
P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf posted
usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts should be
marked as off topic and hidden by default.
But who decides what is off topic.
That's not the first time I mention it, but Discourse
(http://www.discourse.org/) seems like the kind of forum software
appropriate for some of these problems.
It allows:
- branching off conversations (you all know how this is one of the biggest
problem here)
- community moderation:
Le 11/09/2013 16:06, Arvids Godjuks a écrit :
2013/9/11 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk
Arvids Godjuks wrote:
P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf posted
usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts should be
marked as off topic and hidden by
2013/9/11 Terence Copestake terence.copest...@gmail.com
In less than 10 posts, this thread descended into people bashing each
other. Perhaps that's telling of something.
I won't comment on the point about forums or anything else, but a concern
brought up repeatedly both here and in various
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Johannes Schlüter
johan...@schlueters.de wrote:
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:44 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
- having a RFC to make a language change requires to have a patch
which if you don't know C and internals you got no chance of doing.
Well, so what should
Terence Copestake wrote:
There's a conflict between people who want to keep PHP
simple and accessible and people who want to make PHP into a professional
programming tool/environment, complete with all bells and whistles.
You see that is part of the problem here. What proportion of the
As I answered on Anthony's post, there is not much need for waking up,
or moving the talks to a forum, or discussing the problem to death here.
The problem is clear, and everyone involved on this mailing list is
aware of it to some degree. The only way this can be solved is if the
offenders
On Sep 11, 2013, at 15:52 , Terence Copestake terence.copest...@gmail.com
wrote:
(.. ) a concern
brought up repeatedly both here and in various blogs is the lack of
direction or vision. There's a conflict between people who want to keep PHP
simple and accessible and people who want to make
A forum is merely a medium, and even if the community would be able to
moderate message, I still foresee a problem.
As long as the community remains hostile to newcomers, moderation
would be hostile as well. Take for example the situation on Stack
Overflow's PHP tag. Hardened by a tidal wave of
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 21:27 +0200, Madara Uchiha wrote:
As long as the community remains hostile to newcomers, moderation
would be hostile as well.
Sorry, I don't believe in this hostile argument. Yes people have
strong opinions and aren't not necessarily diplomatic while stating them
(for all
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Madara Uchiha dor.tchi...@gmail.com wrote:
A forum is merely a medium, and even if the community would be able to
moderate message, I still foresee a problem.
As long as the community remains hostile to newcomers, moderation
would be hostile as well. Take for
Am 11.09.2013 14:46, schrieb Johannes Schlüter:
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
So, I think, it's time to move to a forum.
I hope this is a joke.
+1. A forum is a no go for me.
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Philip Sturgeon wrote:
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote:
Terence Copestake wrote:
There's a conflict between people who want to keep PHP
simple and accessible and people who want to make PHP into a professional
programming tool/environment, complete with
On 09/11/2013 02:35 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote:
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:44 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
- having a RFC to make a language change requires to have a patch
which if you don't know C and internals you got no chance of doing.
Well, so what should happen? An RFC without patch is
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 23:34 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
First, I didn't said anything about attitude to new comers. For me it
was quite well and people offered to help out in solving issues.
Thanks.
Second, if you read the posting rules of this mailing list, top
posting is one of those things
So if you want to do something useful: draft an RFC with a clear code of
conduct, put it to a vote, promote it. And if you don't agree see above,
take a deep breath and do not waste time answering this email to tell me
an idiot.
Typically RFC's have been about the PHP language and not about
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 16:15 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
There's also little to no documentation on how to setup your work
environment for developing something for PHP, I've started to do
something about that but it's not like I'm a experienced user in
this
Issue 1: There is no single work
Hi Johannes,
I do understand motivations behind keeping core simple and stable that
majority of internals always promote. I also understand the majority of
user base is on shared host.
But as a counterpart, what about large agencies that do want to extract
every single feature PHP has to provide?
On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
- lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
what's in the next two versions of php from now
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
assign tasks to. We have volunteers who work on things they
On 09/11/2013 05:44 AM, Florin Patan wrote:
Where's Rasmus, the so called benevolent dictator, to actually dictate
and handle the internals? Yes Rasmus, you're making money out of PHP
yet I haven't seen a comment from you in the past months. Wikipedia
doesn't list you as hibernating.
Rasmus
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Maintain it.
Start with 1.
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Florin Patan florinpa...@gmail.com
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Maintain it.
Start with 1.
Why is earning authority a step in this process? This just seems
http://www.unicom.com/pw/faq/sco-xenix.faq
blast from the past...
Rajneesh N. Shetty
Tel : (+61)468371858
From: Philip Sturgeon [pjsturg...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2013 2:43 PM
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Wake up
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha seva.lap...@gmail.com wrote:
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Maintain it.
Start
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