Florin Patan schrieb:
> - lack of clear documentation about the internals: you really can't
> tell me that the docs out there are clear because I did a bunch of
> searching for them and I'm pretty good at finding stuff
You are welcome to improve the documentation and make it easier for
people to
hi Florin,
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
> This morning I read something that's not fun:
> https://twitter.com/ircmaxell/status/376027280562073600
>
> Yet another good contributor leaves this community (not the whole PHP
> community) because of the way things are done her
hi Derick,
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Derick Rethans wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Daniel Basten wrote:
>
>> cite: "I hope this is a joke."
>>
>> i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
>
> Not following etiquette is one of the things that annoys people. And you
> just violated
Le 12/09/2013 16:52, Michael Wallner a écrit :
Have you talked to Michael yet and see if he could work on some bugs and/or
feature requests lacking developers?
I'm too much of a donkey to drive PHP alone, but thank you for your
confidence :)
You're welcome ;)
I wasn't thinking of putting y
On 12 September 2013 13:43, Pascal Chevrel wrote:
> Le 12/09/2013 04:46, Rasmus Lerdorf a écrit :
>
>> On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
>>>
>>> - lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
>>> what's in the next two versions of php from now
>>
>>
>> That's never
Florin Patan wrote:
That said, maybe after 5.6 release it would be a good time to have a
meeting and talk about future PHP versions and how we get there? I can
suggest Berlin as a place to do it, there's plenty of activity here,
lots of startups using PHP and a pretty nice city.
You see that I
Le 12/09/2013 04:46, Rasmus Lerdorf a écrit :
On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
- lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
what's in the next two versions of php from now
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
assign tasks t
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 11:02 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>>
>> That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
>> assign tasks to. We have volunteers who work on things they need or find
>> fun to work on. We can't possibly provide a solid road map two
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 4:46 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
>> - lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
>> what's in the next two versions of php from now
>
> That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we c
Why not both?
The list should and will remain, but I see no issue in using the same
inbox to start/reply-to a thread; it's been done, it can be done!
And I don't think it's just about keeping people who like one or the
other more, but rather allowing a quick read over the conversation in
a threaded
Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
assign tasks to. We have volunteers who work on things they need or find
fun to work on. We can't possibly provide a solid road map two (I assume
you mean major) versions out.
The conflict here is the
Authorities don't run away.
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 3:25 AM, Pascal Chevrel wrote:
> e 12/09/2013 07:40, Daniel Brown a écrit :
>
> On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha
>> wrote:
>>
>>> PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for
>>> it.
>>> If you don't li
Le 12/09/2013 07:40, Daniel Brown a écrit :
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha wrote:
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Ma
On 09/12/2013 06:43 AM, Philip Sturgeon wrote:
> As for the comments about the FIG made by others, I agree with Larry
> in that we're doing a pretty good job at trying to build on the
> example set forward by internals. Self moderation and workflow are two
> important factors to the group, and I d
e 12/09/2013 07:40, Daniel Brown a écrit :
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha wrote:
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Mai
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha wrote:
> PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
> If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
>
> 1. Earn authority.
> 2. Propose a change.
> 3. Implement it.
> 4. Maintain it.
>
> Start with 1.
http://www.unicom.com/pw/faq/sco-xenix.faq
"blast from the past"...
Rajneesh N. Shetty
Tel : (+61)468371858
From: Philip Sturgeon [pjsturg...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2013 2:43 PM
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DE
> PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
> If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
>
> 1. Earn authority.
> 2. Propose a change.
> 3. Implement it.
> 4. Maintain it.
>
> Start with 1.
Why is earning authority a step in this process? This just
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Maintain it.
Start with 1.
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Florin Patan wrote:
> Good day intern
On 09/11/2013 05:44 AM, Florin Patan wrote:
Where's Rasmus, the so called benevolent dictator, to actually dictate
and handle the internals? Yes Rasmus, you're making money out of PHP
yet I haven't seen a comment from you in the past months. Wikipedia
doesn't list you as hibernating.
Rasmus abd
On 09/11/2013 05:34 PM, Florin Patan wrote:
> - lack of a clear roadmap: as I said earlier, can someone really tell
> what's in the next two versions of php from now
That's never going to happen. We don't have paid developers that we can
assign tasks to. We have volunteers who work on things they
Hi Johannes,
I do understand motivations behind keeping core simple and stable that
majority of internals always promote. I also understand the majority of
user base is on shared host.
But as a counterpart, what about large agencies that do want to extract
every single feature PHP has to provide?
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 16:15 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
> There's also little to no documentation on how to setup your work
> environment for developing something for PHP, I've started to do
> something about that but it's not like I'm a experienced user in
> this
Issue 1: There is no single wo
> So if you want to do something useful: draft an RFC with a clear code of
> conduct, put it to a vote, promote it. And if you don't agree see above,
> take a deep breath and do not waste time answering this email to tell me
> an idiot.
Typically RFC's have been about the PHP language and not abo
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 23:34 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
> First, I didn't said anything about attitude to new comers. For me it
> was quite well and people offered to help out in solving issues.
Thanks.
> Second, if you read the posting rules of this mailing list, top
> posting is one of those thi
On 09/11/2013 02:35 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:44 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
>> - having a RFC to make a language change requires to have a patch
>> which if you don't know C and internals you got no chance of doing.
>
> Well, so what should happen? An RFC without patc
Philip Sturgeon wrote:
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
Terence Copestake wrote:
There's a conflict between people who want to keep PHP
simple and accessible and people who want to make PHP into a professional
programming tool/environment, complete with all bells and whis
Am 11.09.2013 14:46, schrieb Johannes Schlüter:
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
So, I think, it's time to move to a forum.
I hope this is a joke.
+1. A forum is a no go for me.
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>On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Madara Uchiha wrote:
> A forum is merely a medium, and even if the community would be able to
> moderate message, I still foresee a problem.
>
> As long as the community remains hostile to newcomers, moderation
> would be hostile as well. Take for example the situ
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 21:27 +0200, Madara Uchiha wrote:
> As long as the community remains hostile to newcomers, moderation
> would be hostile as well.
Sorry, I don't believe in this "hostile" argument. Yes people have
strong opinions and aren't not necessarily diplomatic while stating them
(for a
A forum is merely a medium, and even if the community would be able to
moderate message, I still foresee a problem.
As long as the community remains hostile to newcomers, moderation
would be hostile as well. Take for example the situation on Stack
Overflow's PHP tag. Hardened by a tidal wave of cr
On Sep 11, 2013, at 15:52 , Terence Copestake
wrote:
> (.. ) a concern
> brought up repeatedly both here and in various blogs is the lack of
> direction or vision. There's a conflict between people who want to keep PHP
> simple and accessible and people who want to make PHP into a professional
>
As I answered on Anthony's post, there is not much need for waking up,
or moving the talks to a forum, or discussing the problem to death here.
The problem is clear, and everyone involved on this mailing list is
aware of it to some degree. The only way this can be solved is if the
offenders self-c
Terence Copestake wrote:
There's a conflict between people who want to keep PHP
simple and accessible and people who want to make PHP into a professional
programming tool/environment, complete with all bells and whistles.
You see that is part of the problem here. What proportion of the internet
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Johannes Schlüter
wrote:
> On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:44 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
>> - having a RFC to make a language change requires to have a patch
>> which if you don't know C and internals you got no chance of doing.
>
> Well, so what should happen? An RFC wit
2013/9/11 Terence Copestake
> In less than 10 posts, this thread descended into people bashing each
> other. Perhaps that's telling of something.
>
> I won't comment on the point about forums or anything else, but a concern
> brought up repeatedly both here and in various blogs is the lack of
> d
Le 11/09/2013 16:06, Arvids Godjuks a écrit :
2013/9/11 Lester Caine
Arvids Godjuks wrote:
P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf posted
usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts should be
marked as off topic and hidden by default.
But who
> That's not the first time I mention it, but Discourse
> (http://www.discourse.org/) seems like the kind of forum software
> appropriate for some of these problems.
>
> It allows:
>
> - branching off conversations (you all know how this is one of the biggest
> problem here)
>
> - community moderat
2013/9/11 Lester Caine
> Arvids Godjuks wrote:
>
>> P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf posted
>> usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts should be
>> marked as off topic and hidden by default.
>>
>
> But who decides what is off topic.
> There
2013/9/11 Johannes Schlüter
> On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 16:26 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
> >
> >
> > P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf
> > posted usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts
> > should be marked as off topic and hidden by default.
In less than 10 posts, this thread descended into people bashing each
other. Perhaps that's telling of something.
I won't comment on the point about forums or anything else, but a concern
brought up repeatedly both here and in various blogs is the lack of
direction or vision. There's a conflict be
Arvids Godjuks wrote:
P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf posted
usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts should be
marked as off topic and hidden by default.
But who decides what is off topic.
There are genuine disagreements as to how PHP sh
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 16:26 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
>
>
> P.S. While I was writing this, 4 people posted. Only Patrick Schaaf
> posted usefull information. If this would be a forum - those 3 posts
> should be marked as off topic and hidden by default.
I read this as "I want a censor"
Does
2013/9/11 Johannes Schlüter
> On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
> > It is based on the fact that there are too many people writing to
> internals
> > and mailing lists are not actually manageable at this level. I stopped
> > following all the stuff around a year ago, when I
On Wed, 11 Sep 2013, Daniel Basten wrote:
> cite: "I hope this is a joke."
>
> i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
Not following etiquette is one of the things that annoys people. And you
just violated list etiquette it by top-replying.
Derick
--
PHP Internals - PHP Runtime D
On Wednesday 11 September 2013 15:00:33 Daniel Basten wrote:
> cite: "I hope this is a joke."
>
> i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
Yeah. A forum would be much better, this whole thread could just be
moderated shut and invisible after the first message.
Also a forum would avoi
cite: "I hope this is a joke."
i guess that is the stuff they where talking about.
greetings,
daniel
2013/9/11 Johannes Schlüter
> On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
> > It is based on the fact that there are too many people writing to
> internals
> > and mailing lists
On 09/11/2013 02:46 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote:
So, I think, it's time to move to a forum.
I hope this is a joke.
so do I ...
--
hartmut
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On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 13:59 +0300, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
> It is based on the fact that there are too many people writing to internals
> and mailing lists are not actually manageable at this level. I stopped
> following all the stuff around a year ago, when I started to get like 15 to
> 30 maillist
On Wed, 2013-09-11 at 12:44 +0200, Florin Patan wrote:
> - having a RFC to make a language change requires to have a patch
> which if you don't know C and internals you got no chance of doing.
Well, so what should happen? An RFC without patch is accepted and then?
Somebody has to write a patch at
Well said, Florin. :)
I'm not a core contributor, I never have been and probably never will be as
I don't know C... but I do follow internals quite keenly. It strikes me
that the biggest problem here is that there's no one entity to decide the
rules of the road, so everything (including the rules
Hello everyone.
I just want to point out one thing about all that internals stuff and
remind about a good idea that has been surfacing a few times through the
years, but now I think it can actually get traction because of recent
problems.
It is based on the fact that there are too many people writ
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