>Also the LSA will be publishing an interview with Crawford in our
>Quarterly, as soon as Ed Durbrow finishes it. Ed, did you discuss plectrum
>technique in the interview?
We did a bit. I can tell you he was using a nylon
G string from a guitar throughout the Medieval
seminar in Vancouver 2004.
if you receive this twice, sorry ...
the excellent ronnie has a video download on his site
which illustrates a plectrum and finger style of play
on his oud:
http://www.iraqi-oud.com/index.html
- bill
"and thus i made...a small vihuela from the shell of a creepy crawly..." - Don
Gonzalo de Guer
Good for you, James, I'm with you. We are kindred spirits.
There is something totally natural about not having to bother
with sheet notation.
Marion
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mar 30, 2005 11:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: Re: memorizatio
Michael,
How would you estimate the breakdown of the 3000 who play lutes?
How many play renaissance lute only? How many play baroque lute only?
How may play both, theorbo, etc? How many play lutes who have NOT
also studied guitar? Has anyone done a study on the statistics? A master's
thesis?
Best
Dear *,
recently i attended a concert in which, after playing Flow my Tears by
Dowland, one of the performers mentioned that Dowland had written this
for a group of people who were exiled from the court and called
themselves the "School of Darkness" (?).
I tried to find a source mentioning this,
-Original Message-
From: Sean Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 30, 2005 5:46 PM
To: Lutelist
Subject: Re: Montagna's lutes
Marion,
Often a lute duo would consist of a tenorista playing the tenor perhaps
with a plectrum (or fingers) or playing the tenor and another noncantus
line
- Original Message -
From: "Nancy Carlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute net"
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: memorization
> When Nigel North was here recently he played 3 concerts in the
San
>
> Francisco area. A
Bach never wrote anything for lute???
Gary Digman
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute net" ; "Denys Stephens"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: memorization
> Stephan wrote,
>>Seg
The only reason for doing anything is the love of doing it.
Gary Digman
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute net" ; "Denys Stephens"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March
The small prelude in c-minor is for lute and the g-minor suite (pour
Schouster) is an arrangement of a cello suite for lute by Bach himself. All
other works are either uncertain or surely not meant for the lute.
This mainly has to do with a mistake in the first complete edition where
pieces fo
Well oiled, sure. Define competent. Apparently you do not consider anyone
with a page of music in front of them competent.
Gary Digman
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lute net" ; "Roman Turovsky"
<[EMAIL P
Hi Benjamin,
I think the person probably meant "The school of night". Here is what one
online site has to say about them
The School of Night was a cabal of men centered around Sir Walter Raleigh. They
were a collection of poets and scientists who included Christopher Marlowe,
George Ch
I agree: the lute is a thing of minorities.
I can speak about my own case: I had my first active contact with the
lute world only 3 years ago.
Before I was, since many years, an amateur recorder and traverso player.
In this 3 years I have immersed myself deeply in the lute and its music.
See
Dear Denys
I have heard the claim - only from lute players - that the lute
repertoire is much larger than that of the classical guitar. This seems to
be accepted as undisputed fact - again, only by lute players.
I have been immersed in both worlds now for over 40 years, I have been
paying
Hear Hear!!
On 3/31/05 2:04 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is really a very interesting thread! I memorize pieces for solo
> performance, and sight read (duo, or whatever) ensemble pieces. I find that
> memorization actually gives me much more freedom in interpreta
> I have heard the claim - only from lute players - that the lute
> repertoire is much larger than that of the classical guitar. This seems to
> be accepted as undisputed fact - again, only by lute players.
>
> I have been immersed in both worlds now for over 40 years, I have been
> paying close a
> Well oiled, sure. Define competent. Apparently you do not consider anyone
> with a page of music in front of them competent.
> Gary Digman
For example: Cardin is not competent to run, but probably competent enough
to sit on the jury.
One possible solution is limit the jury panel to NONlutenists,
>> This is really a very interesting thread! I memorize pieces for solo
>> performance, and sight read (duo, or whatever) ensemble pieces. I find that
>> memorization actually gives me much more freedom in interpretation, from one
>> performance to the next. I memorize the notes, not the way I p
>There is an enormous amount of it churned out by MO and the like every
>year,
>but I doubt that any of it is Music, with the exception of Peteris
Vasks
>guitar Sonata (probably the only guitar piece by a world-class composer
>during 20th century). Sound effects pap of Delpriora's type just canno
> Nancy,
> Has anyone ever thought to do a yearly international lute competition
> sponsored by the LSA?
Look at LSA annual budget in the Quarterly.
RT
Maybe alternating one year for Baroque lute, the
> next for Ren lute. Just like the GFA, and some how work together with
> the GFA in organizing
>> Yes, I totally agree So why is Paul Odette's next CD going to have
>> 3 Bach suites, and one Weiss. Why did Nigel North, record the Chaconne
> and
>> a 4 CD set of all Bach, and one Weiss suite, Edwardo Eg? CD's of all
>> Bach? and no Weiss. I'll tell you whyit's marketed to guitari
>> There is an enormous amount of it churned out by MO and the like every
>> year,
>> but I doubt that any of it is Music, with the exception of Peteris
> Vasks
>> guitar Sonata (probably the only guitar piece by a world-class composer
>> during 20th century). Sound effects pap of Delpriora's type
This is really a very interesting thread! I memorize pieces for solo
performance, and sight read (duo, or whatever) ensemble pieces. I find that
memorization actually gives me much more freedom in interpretation, from one
performance to the next. I memorize the notes, not the way I play them.
Th
>Michael,
>How would you estimate the breakdown of the 3000 who play lutes?
>How many play renaissance lute only? How many play >baroque lute only?
>How may play both, theorbo, etc? How many play lutes >who have NOT
>also studied guitar? Has anyone done a study on the >statistics? A master's
>thes
>Well oiled, sure. Define competent. Apparently you do >not consider anyone
>with a page of music in front of them competent.
> Gary Digman
Never even came close to saying that, Gary, I was talking about
presentation, and stage presence, in a modern wor
>Weiss-Barto series sold over 7.
>RT
Is that 70,000, or 7000?
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute net"
; "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday
>The small prelude in c-minor is for lute and the g-minor >suite (pour
>Schouster) is an arrangement of a cello suite for lute by >Bach himself.
Thomas,
Did Bach actually sign off on the G minor suite? I like to think he did.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Mes
>The only reason for doing anything is the love of doing it.
> Gary Digman
Only in a perfect world.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "gary digman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 4:
>> I also, happen to know that no record company will invest in something
>> that won't sell.
>Weiss-Barto series sold over 7.
>RT
I have heard, that Naxos, pays an artist, an up front fee of $1400.00 per
CD. and no royalties. They figure they will sell 2000, and that's it.
Your better o
>Yes - it's a pity that many lute players repeat the same >pieces all over
>again. But in difference to the guitar world we do have a >vast repertoire
>and it's work for generations to bring it back on stage.
Regardless of how huge the repertoire is, either in the guitar world, or
lute world,
That reminds me of an exam I had to take, in which a harpsichordist who was
supposed to judge, had never seen and I suppose heard a baroque lute ( heard
of, I should say..), so she started with quite silly questions about the
difference between a renaissance lute and a baroque ( mine, in fact),
sho
If this is true I must have imagined the lute prelude
that Parkening has recorded on the guitar and
that is in my music book.
Cheers,
Marion
-Original Message-
From: gary digman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 31, 2005 3:31 AM
To: Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
On 3/31/05 9:55 AM, "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I have heard the claim - only from lute players - that the lute
>> repertoire is much larger than that of the classical guitar. This seems to
>> be accepted as undisputed fact - again, only by lute players.
>>
>> I have been im
does anyone play jazz lute?
it might be suited for other types of music but jazz
seems the more likely. if someone were to play lute
the way bill evans, say, played piano, i expect there
would be a lot more lute recordings of every type.
consider how popular the oud has become in the past
fe
It sounds like "the School of Night," which allegedly included Christopher
Marlowe, Sir Walter Ralegh, John Dee, Sir Francis Walsingham, and others.
For a brief explanation and a few pictures, see
http://www.lexscripta.com/articles/raleigh1.html
M.C. Bradbrook has written a book of this title
Michael,
Nancy Carlin's estimate sounds reasonable. I have not exactly "switched
over" to baroque lute to the exclusion of renaissance lute, but include it
among the instruments that I practice on a regular basis. I think
that this trend is a natural effect of the desire in general to play a wider
> does anyone play jazz lute?
Google up Fred Hand. I wouldn't vouch quality though
RT
>
> it might be suited for other types of music but jazz
> seems the more likely. if someone were to play lute
> the way bill evans, say, played piano, i expect there
> would be a lot more lute recordings
>> Weiss-Barto series sold over 7.
>> RT
> Is that 70,000, or 7000?
The FORMER.
RT
>
>
Yes, I totally agree So why is Paul Odette's next CD going to have
3 Bach suites, and one Weiss. Why did Nigel North, record the Chaconne
>>> and
a 4 CD set of all Bach, and one Weiss
Bill,
Don't get me started on this one. I already have
baroque lute versions of two popular songs and
a folk song, not exactly jazz but they work very
well on the instrument. The advantage of these
pieces is that 1. They are not too hard to play
and 2. They are great for becoming familiar
with the
Where did you hear that? I had an employee of Naxos tell me that they
anticipated sales of their CDs to average about 2000 and that was why they
do not work with the usual royalty arrangements but pay a flat fee to the
artists on their label.
Nancy Carlin
> > No question, I totally agree wi
>> Weiss-Barto series sold over 7.
>> RT
> Is that 70,000, or 7000?
>>The FORMER.
>>RT
So then, thats actually very good news. So, 70,000 divided by 6 volumes
equals 11,600 each volume, half lutenist lets sat bought them and half
others. Could it then be there are actually 5000 lutenist
>Gary Digman is an expert in both lute and
>jazz. He probably can tell you quite a bit about
>this topic.
>Best regards,
>Marion
Sounds like this might be mutually exclusive of each other.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EM
>>> Weiss-Barto series sold over 7.
>>> RT
>> Is that 70,000, or 7000?
>>> The FORMER.
>>> RT
> So then, thats actually very good news. So, 70,000 divided by 6 volumes
> equals 11,600 each volume, half lutenist lets sat bought them and half
> others. Could it then be there are actually 500
>>> Weiss-Barto series sold over 7.
>>> RT
>> Is that 70,000, or 7000?
>>> The FORMER.
>>> RT
> So then, thats actually very good news. So, 70,000 divided by 6 volumes
> equals 11,600 each volume, half lutenist lets sat bought them and half
> others. Could it then be there are actually 500
>Now I must beg your pardon. I had no idea I was >corresponding with the
>sole arbiter of musical taste of our time. (please read the >sarcasm into
the
>tone.)
>Or, to put it another way: Does the grass around your >place grow
>especially green because of all that BS?
> JM
It's even g
>>> I have heard the claim - only from lute players - that the lute
>>> repertoire is much larger than that of the classical guitar. This seems to
>>> be accepted as undisputed fact - again, only by lute players.
>>>
>>> I have been immersed in both worlds now for over 40 years, I have been
>>> pa
>That was before #6.
>RT
Sorry, I figured everyone who was going to buy #6 all ready did.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute net"
; "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECT
Manolo,
Thank yu for sharing. It is a pleasure to meet you on line.
Best regards,
Marion
-Original Message-
From: Manolo Laguillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 31, 2005 5:30 AM
To: LUTELIST
Subject: was: memorization / no-boring-ability of the lute and nevertheless
minoritarian
I ag
Dear Joseph,
I think that's a fair challenge!
I don't have the week or two spare that it would take to do the job
thoroughly, but we could make some guestimates:
Howard Mayer Brown lists over 300 printed books of
lute music up to 1600 in his bibliography. Multiply that by
a conservative estimate
Dear Denys
Thank you for your cordial response, but it raises as many questions as
it answers - more or less. (see below)
On 3/31/05 3:20 PM, "Denys Stephens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Joseph,
> I think that's a fair challenge!
>
> I don't have the week or two spare that it would t
I think you might find many differences in the pieces with the same
names. The Elizabethans loved divisions on a theme. For a number of years
I have loved the piece Go From My Window and aside from the first time
through the tune Thomas Robinson's version is nothing like Esward
Collard's. The
One of you wrote
"I wonder if lute concerts will ever be on the level
of guitar concerts where lutenist's have the proper
professional stage presence to not
be staring at their music all the time. This might
give them more appeal to the general concert going
public, and more acceptance by
guita
>I saw Julian Bream premier the Henze "Royal Winter"
>piece in NY back in the 1970's - He read it from the
>manuscript - I never thought that he lacked proper
>professional stage presence, appeal to the general
>public or acceptance by guitarists. Why don't you get
>off the soap box and think about
I don't know whether they meet today's standard of "professionalism," but a few
of the people who I've see perform with a score in front of them include:
David Starobin
Julian Bream
Yo-Yo Ma
Itzakh Perlman
Daniel Barenboim
Maurizio Pollini
Richard Stoltzman
Jean-Pierre Rampal
Juilliard Quartet
Em
I take it you do not care for Henze's music. Great
stuff really - especially when you read thru some of
it. Sort of breaks out of the mold of the spanish
guitar music stuff - difficult to play - takes
concentration and several hearings to appreciate.
Gesualdo probably had that same problem.
Sa
Joseph Mayes wrote:
> Duke Ellington once said, "There are two kinds of music - good music and bad
> music."
Ellington, who died in 1974, is indeed universally credited with that
remark, proving that inane comments about music predate internet discussion
groups.
Anyone who really believes tha
Whether to sightread or memorize music is a personal preference.
There really is no right way or wrong way. The bottom line is to
do whatever works for you.
Cheers,
Marion
-Original Message-
From: Howard Posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 31, 2005 4:37 PM
To: lute net
Subject: Re: mesm
>> Duke Ellington once said, "There are two kinds of music - good music and bad
>> music."
>
> Ellington, who died in 1974, is indeed universally credited with that
> remark, proving that inane comments about music predate internet discussion
> groups.
>
> Anyone who really believes that all m
>> I saw Julian Bream premier the Henze "Royal Winter"
>> piece in NY back in the 1970's - He read it from the
>> manuscript - I never thought that he lacked proper
>> professional stage presence, appeal to the general
>> public or acceptance by guitarists. Why don't you get
>> off the soap box and
> I take it you do not care for Henze's music. Great
> stuff really - especially when you read thru some of
> it. Sort of breaks out of the mold of the spanish
> guitar music stuff - difficult to play - takes
> concentration and several hearings to appreciate.
> Gesualdo probably had that same prob
MT wrote
"Renaissance music is not Romantic music (in the
context of the music history definition of the word)
-the players role is often to detach one's ego from
the performance and let the music speak for itself."
Oh- what treatise did you find the detached ego stuff
from - seems to me that you
-Original Message-
From: Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Mar 31, 2005 11:22 AM
To: "Dr. Marion Ceruti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
lute list
Subject: Re: sketches of spain lute
>Gary Digman is an expert in both lute and
>jazz. He
>I take it you do not care for Henze's music. Great
>stuff really - especially when you read thru some of
>it. Sort of breaks out of the mold of the Spanish
>guitar music stuff - difficult to play - takes
>concentration and several hearings to appreciate.
>Gesualdo probably had that same problem...
>I'll pass along the deportment suggestion to my friends in >the
Philharmonic.
To: "lute net"
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: mesmerization
> Joseph Mayes wrote:
>
> > Duke Ellington once said, "There are two kinds of music - good music
and bad
> > music."
>
> Ellington,
>> "I wonder if lute concerts will ever be on the level
>> of guitar concerts where lutenist's have the proper
>> professional stage presence to not
>> be staring at their music all the time. This might
>> give them more appeal to the general concert going
>> public, and more acceptance by
>> guit
Sean:
About the lutes depicted in
http://www.xs4all.nl/~amarin/Page1-Pages/Image198.html
I know for a fact that Ed Greenhood has been making a lute of almost this
exact same body design. It occurs also in a painting by Bartolomeo Veneto (on
cover of Diana Poulton's Collected Works of Dowlan
>I don't know whether they meet today's standard of >"professionalism," but
a few
of them include:
Etc. Etc.
Each one of these artist's have performed concerts relying only on
their memory as well. You can't say the same for lutenist's.
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
>Someone who doesn't know what an apostrophe is for >wrote:
Isn't that when the world comes to an end or something,
Michael Thames
www.ThamesClassicalGuitars.com
- Original Message -
From: "Howard Posner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "lute net"
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:37
Herbert,
As an inveterate "jig" builder I agree with the other answers. But will add
my own. If you are dealing with plain old pine stud you don't need a sharp
draw knife (which costs money), a good sharp hunting knife or such will
allow you to whittle it to a gross size (the wood isn't hard). The
There is music which is much more fun to play than to listen to it. I
haven't played the Royal Winter Music but it could well be it falls in that
category. I just heard it once ...
Thomas
Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 01.04.2005 03:17:22
An:Michael Thames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Yes, I totally agree So why is Paul Odette's next CD going to have
> >> 3 Bach suites, and one Weiss. Why did Nigel North, record the Chaconne
> > and
> >> a 4 CD set of all Bach, and one Weiss suite, Edwardo Eg?
If, as I guess, "Edwardo Eg?" is Eduardo Eguez, he has recorded so far
Roman Turovsky wrote:
> you are mixing up apfel and pomeranz. No orchestra ever plays
> from memory.
But every orchestra is concerned about the "professional stage presence" of
its musicians (or, as seems to be the fashion around here, "musician's");
which was the immediate subject at hand. Orch
what did Pontius Pilatus say about that topic? Doesn't he simply question
"What's truth?" ?
If someone makes statements about good or bad (music) I think it's
necessary to give reasons for this opinion.
There are many affiniciados of Kapsberger and Hasse (ETA Hoffmann praised
him very enthusi
Dear Joseph,
Yes, I own to pushing my luck a bit! But the numbers
are impressive nonetheless.
I didn't mean, incidentally, not to have a level playing field:
one could either count only the pieces specific to each instrument,
which would give one result, or add in the legitimate music aquired
from
As one who has experienced all sorts of memory over 70 years I'll say that
Ed's analysis is technically correct (although I'd disagree with the muscle
memory being the most dangerous, it has saved my butt a number of times on
the ski slope - but an aerial recovery from an unseen bump isn't the same
Roman Turovsky wrote:
> you are mixing up apfel and pomeranz. No orchestra ever plays
> from memory.
>But every orchestra is concerned about the "professional >stage presence"
of
>its musicians (or, as seems to be the fashion around >here, "musician's");
>which was the immediate subject at hand.
It occurred to me that I have been assuming... it's a lutenistic tradition
to not memorize, and site read only, as everyone has passionately
communicated.
Where does one find proof of this tradition? Historical Lute methods I've
read, seem to indicate the very opposite. Did Da Milano, Dowland,
There are much more people buying lutemusic than lute players. Actually
lute players are the minority of buyers. My personal experience tells it
and this is shared by several other players I know.
Best wishes
Thomas
"Michael Thames" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 31.03.2005 21:29:26
An:"Roma
Juerg and I are playing several jazz pieces and are toying with the idea to
make a complete program out of it (Juerg was a professional jazz guitarist
before raising to the lute).
Thomas
Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> am 31.03.2005 21:22:17
An:bill kilpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
There is also an aspect different to the economical: Naxos has a world-wide
marketing and I found his CDs even in the record shop near to my home town
(although seldom the newest - I think at the moment they have #4 in stock).
And on the economical side: Producing a CD on a professional level
Howard,
I don't know whether to agree or disagree, it is a matter of interpretation.
> > Duke Ellington once said, "There are two kinds of music - good music
and bad
> > music."
>
> Ellington, who died in 1974, is indeed universally credited with that
> remark, proving that inane comments about
I'm not sure I have understood the term "sign off".
The version for Schouster is in Bach's hand and signed "for the lute" and
we know that a certain Schouster was in Leipzig at that time who also
played the lute. The bad thing is that Bach's version require a tone
(contra G) which is not on t
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