Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-20 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
Yes, it locks in the speed, yes, they have to be able to prove it. On 2/14/2013 6:54 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: I got pulled over this afternoon on the Maine Turnpike. Trooper claimed that I was doing 78mph. I don't agree but my speedo doesn't work. When I'm doing 78 mph, I: 1) realize th

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-19 Thread Tim Crone
You have to get out of the "fairness" mindset. The system by its nature tends to favor frequent players. The judge is depending on the police officers union to get reelected, and he is going to lunch with the prosecutor. Speaking of lunch, how many cases are left in that pile? If you want fair,

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-19 Thread clay monroe
> -Curt > > Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:42:38 -0800 > From: clay monroe > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! > Message-ID: <9708ca3f-ff8a-4e2c-8e30-6c2961e05...@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread OK Don
Exactly how mine was. On Monday, February 18, 2013, Craig wrote: > On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:11:28 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond > wrote: > >> Interesting, looks like a 115 220D ought to be real good off the line. > > Having owned one, I can say, yes, it is ... Until you get across the > intersection an

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Craig
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 09:51:16 -0600 Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote: > The 220D was 615.941 The '72 220D I had was a 615.912. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.co

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Jim Cathey
616 010 26 00 looks like a part number, and some have suffixes so the 88 could be a suffix. Is it a number for a factory short block? did someone convert it to a 2.4 L engine? That number I _am_ sure of, and I could easily believe that somebody dropped in another engine. The car's engine bay

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Craig
On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 07:11:28 -0800 (PST) Curt Raymond wrote: > Interesting, looks like a 115 220D ought to be real good off the line. Having owned one, I can say, yes, it is ... Until you get across the intersection and have to shift into second. That is guaranteed to get the person right behind

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Dieselhead
According to wikipedia your car should have: "OM615.940 The OM615.940 was a 2.0 L (1988 cc) engine with an 87 mm bore and 83.6 mm stroke. Power output was 55 hp (41 kW) through 1979 and rose to 60 hp (45 kW). Applications: * 1976-1979 200D, 55 hp (41 kW) * 1979-1985

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Jim Cathey
What are the 4-5-6 positions of the engine number? They should be different than a US 220D because the displacement is different. There is an official-looking painted and embossed aluminum tag riveted to the block, with 616 010 2600 88 on it. The head casting is (I think) 616 011 and the block

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Curt Raymond
Interesting, looks like a 115 220D ought to be real good off the line. You did manage a funny typo or two too. ;) -Curt Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2013 01:48:26 -0600 From: Fmiser To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <20130218014826.279f77dc.

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Dieselhead
| W115 200D | 4.08 | 2970 lb | 81 mph | 61 hp | 4527 | Odd, then, that mine has a speedo pip at more like 85MPH, and the car reaches it too. I'll grant that the US-ification of this obviously grey-market car might have put a 220D speedo face on it, but why would it be able to reach it?

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-18 Thread Jim Cathey
| W115 200D | 4.08 | 2970 lb | 81 mph | 61 hp | 4527 | Odd, then, that mine has a speedo pip at more like 85MPH, and the car reaches it too. I'll grant that the US-ification of this obviously grey-market car might have put a 220D speedo face on it, but why would it be able to reach it?

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-17 Thread Fmiser
> > clay wrote: > > > > I would concur, but you did not drive the car and hear how > > redline sounds with that little wind up engine. Makes you > > think the car was in Back to the Future territory and I would > > be transported someplace else were I to take it to 88 MPH > Curt Raymond wrote: >

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-17 Thread Jim Cathey
Gump was a 220D? I forget. Seems like max speed should be a bit less for one of those, maybe 80mph? My 200D W115 ootched to maybe 88 indicated, the one time I unleashed the hounds of Limbo. Its speedo reads a touch low, though, so road speed might have been still under the 85 MPH that is the pi

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-17 Thread Curt Raymond
ose, maybe 80mph? -Curt Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:42:38 -0800 From: clay monroe To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <9708ca3f-ff8a-4e2c-8e30-6c2961e05...@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would concur, but you did n

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-17 Thread clay monroe
: > Insert banned type response which indicates your being a wuss... > > > -Curt > > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:32:23 -0800 > From: clay monroe > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! > Message-ID: <9948666e-6cbe-430b-88f4-ec

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-16 Thread G Mann
No need to call them. just follow any ambulance... they will be there. Full service kind of lawyers. Went to the office, the receptionist wouldn't let me leave without a neck brace and a cane.. :) Grant... On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Rich Thomas < richthomas79td...@constructivity.

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-16 Thread Rich Thomas
Have you ever seen their offices? Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe (better known as Huey, Louie, and Dewey) --R On 2/16/13 1:04 PM, Gerry Archer wrote: As my law firm "Dewy, Cheatem, & Howe" says... call us first and shut the hell up... Grant... ___ http://www

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-16 Thread Gerry Archer
When googling Zetronix, there were a number of complaints on various websites such as this one: http://www.ripoffreport.com/directory/Zetronix.aspx Gerry From: "Rich Thomas" Dealextreme had a front/rear cam for really cheap a coupla weeks back, --R On 2/15/13 7:25 PM, G Mann wrote: You ask

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-16 Thread Mitch Haley
dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: Speed limit was 65. Is it like Michigan where 1-10mph over is not a huge deal, but 11mph + gets you lots of insurance points and a huge fine? I once had a local deputy write me for 66 in a 55 zone when I was actually doing 51-52. By the time he finally kicked o

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond
Insert banned type response which indicates your being a wuss... -Curt Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 21:32:23 -0800 From: clay monroe To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <9948666e-6cbe-430b-88f4-ec0f184fe...@comcast.net> Content-Type: text

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-16 Thread dseretakis
Haha. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 15, 2013, at 4:19 PM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote: > I will provide a character reference for Dimitri: "Your honor, > Dimitri is quite a character": > > On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 3:55 PM, G Mann wrote: >> Twice now, I've been stopped for speed with my GPS stuck to

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-16 Thread dseretakis
Speed limit was 65. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 15, 2013, at 12:57 PM, Randy Bennell wrote: > On 15/02/2013 11:35 AM, ernest breakfield wrote: >> the officers testimony of an "estimate" of your speed is enough in some >> states; you'll need to check the laws where you're at. >>the way the

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Jim Cathey
I'd always thought there had to be a limiter because you can feel it just sort of stop accelerating. That's where the rising wind-resistance HP curve meets the falling RPM-dropoff HP curve of the diesel. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread clay monroe
Curt >> >> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:12:08 -0800 >> From: clay monroe >> To: Mercedes Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! >> Message-ID: <0edf596c-aba8-4b31-99a4-f94d954db...@comcast.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain;

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Rich Thomas
Dealextreme had a front/rear cam for really cheap a coupla weeks back, seemed like it had some decent specs. --R On 2/15/13 7:25 PM, G Mann wrote: You ask... so here it is. There are others with slightly different features... Just search engine "dash camera with recording" and read their blurb

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread OK Don
You also need that always on dash camera in case a meteorite flies in front of you - http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/50827929#50827929 On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 6:25 PM, G Mann wrote: > You ask... so here it is. There are others with slightly different > features... Just search engine "d

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread WILTON
, my final comment, "Thank, you, Sir." Frankly, It was a bit more than annoying. Ya may wonder why I got out of the car - I was trying to keep 'im from seeing the blank space in the instrument cluster. 'Could've been a defective equipment ticket. Wilton - Origi

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread G Mann
You ask... so here it is. There are others with slightly different features... Just search engine "dash camera with recording" and read their blurbs. http://www.zetronix.com/Car-Cameras/c59/Wide-Angle-Dual-Car-Camera-with-GPS-and-Night-Vision-Dash-Cam%28201%29/product_info.html?gclid=CIP-2KjEubUCF

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread dseretakis
Yes please! Sent from my iPhone On Feb 15, 2013, at 5:49 PM, Jon Agne wrote: > Details please! Would love to know specifics about your setup. > > Jon > > > On Feb 15, 2013, at 3:55 PM, G Mann wrote: > >> Twice now, I've been stopped for speed with my GPS stuck to the winshield. >> When the

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Jon Agne
Details please! Would love to know specifics about your setup. Jon On Feb 15, 2013, at 3:55 PM, G Mann wrote: > Twice now, I've been stopped for speed with my GPS stuck to the winshield. > When the officer did his little "discussion" I just pointed to the GPS and > stated... According to my GP

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Andrew Strasfogel
I will provide a character reference for Dimitri: "Your honor, Dimitri is quite a character": On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 3:55 PM, G Mann wrote: > Twice now, I've been stopped for speed with my GPS stuck to the winshield. > When the officer did his little "discussion" I just pointed to the GPS and >

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread G Mann
Twice now, I've been stopped for speed with my GPS stuck to the winshield. When the officer did his little "discussion" I just pointed to the GPS and stated... According to my GPS here on the dash in clear view of me while driving I was doing exactly XXX Mph. I'm sure I can call up that information

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Dan Penoff
He is in a different car and he got a ride from the girlfriend to his court appearance. We already went over this prior to his court date. I also had my lawyer buddy give him a quick overview of what is and isn't legal in a Terry stop. You can never be too carful these days... Dan On Feb 15,

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Dieselhead
My youngest son just sort of beat his last speeding ticket (his third in as many years!) He got two continuances, hoping the LEO who wrote the ticket wouldn't appear, but he did. He got it knocked down to 6 mph over the limit because he showed that he had recently had his speedo worked on, w

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Curt Raymond
r To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <20130215121104.5e1a8348.fmi...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Curt Raymond wrote: > I never noticed any difference in max speed between my '78 > 240D and the &#

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Fmiser
> Curt Raymond wrote: > I never noticed any difference in max speed between my '78 > 240D and the '83 240D I used to have. Max speed is governor > limited and 5500rpm is 5500rpm no matter which way you slice > it. The '78 is slightly slower to get there but only slightly. Yeah - but a 240d isn't

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Randy Bennell
On 15/02/2013 11:35 AM, ernest breakfield wrote: the officers testimony of an "estimate" of your speed is enough in some states; you'll need to check the laws where you're at. the way the judge looks at it, the officer is a professional trained in this sort of thing; you're not. cheers! e

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread ernest breakfield
the officers testimony of an "estimate" of your speed is enough in some states; you'll need to check the laws where you're at. the way the judge looks at it, the officer is a professional trained in this sort of thing; you're not. cheers! e On 14/Feb/13 20:57, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Curt Raymond
4:26 -0500 From: Mitch Haley To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <511daf1a.10...@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Tim Crone wrote: > I thought older 240Ds indeed did top out at 78? Not sure wha

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Curt Raymond
cedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <7096753e-3371-44fd-a192-5aca64ea7...@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Not sure what's wrong with it. I need to pull the cluster and troubleshoot. I suspect the cable is broken as both th

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-15 Thread Dan Penoff
My youngest son just sort of beat his last speeding ticket (his third in as many years!) He got two continuances, hoping the LEO who wrote the ticket wouldn't appear, but he did. He got it knocked down to 6 mph over the limit because he showed that he had recently had his speedo worked on, whi

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread dseretakis
27;ll actually be in Leominster but thats east of here) and > pickup. > > -Curt > > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:56:22 +1030 > From: Hendrik and fay > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! > Message-ID: <511d9cce.3030...@gmail.com

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread dseretakis
The ticket is $137. Is it worth hiring a lawyer? It's more a matter of principle and possible insurance increase that motivates me to appeal it. I'm self employed so I don't have to worry about not getting hired. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2013, at 10:35 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread dseretakis
What does an attorney have to do with keeping it off my record? The officer has no proof as he can't produce a radar read. Wouldn't the court see that? Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Jon Agne wrote: > Sorry...deleted all of 1st post accidentally just before hitting send. >

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Mitch Haley
Tim Crone wrote: I thought older 240Ds indeed did top out at 78? Not sure what Dmitri has. I don't think my '74 ever broke 80, and if it was possible I think that car would have done it. Good point. There's probably 5mph or so difference between a 1980 or newer big cam 240D and an earlier m

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Dieselhead
Pay a shyster to get you off. It may cost a little more than the ticket, but less than the total costs. Other costs are higher insurance, higher interest and potentially not getting a better job and such. Anything where they pull your records to check is a potential cost. Besides, they cou

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Allan Streib
Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:12:08 -0800 > From: clay monroe > To: Mercedes Discussion List > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! > Message-ID: <0edf596c-aba8-4b31-99a4-f94d954db...@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > IT will max out at

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Jon Agne
Sorry...deleted all of 1st post accidentally just before hitting send. In Maine, unfortunately, you will pay no matter what. If you want to keep it off of your record, you need to hire an atty. Sorry. BTW, New Hampshire is worse. Jon On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:54 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote:

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Curt Raymond
on List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <511d9cce.3030...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed How much is the fine? Is it worth going to court for? Perhaps get yourself a GPS, so you know how fast your going. Or maybe get a GPS app

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Jon Agne
On Feb 14, 2013, at 7:54 PM, dsereta...@yahoo.com wrote: > I got pulled over this afternoon on the Maine Turnpike. Trooper claimed that > I was doing 78mph. I don't agree but my speedo doesn't work. When I'm doing > 78 mph, I: > 1) realize that I'm speeding. > 2) am intentionally trying to push

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread WILTON
essage - From: "Curt Raymond" To: "Diesel List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Phooey! My 240D regularly sits right at 80mph for 10-15 minutes at a time. There is no reason it shouldn't. If your car can'

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Curt Raymond
nce is the high load. -Curt Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:12:08 -0800 From: clay monroe To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! Message-ID: <0edf596c-aba8-4b31-99a4-f94d954db...@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii IT will max out at 8

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Hendrik and fay
How much is the fine? Is it worth going to court for? Perhaps get yourself a GPS, so you know how fast your going. Or maybe get a GPS app for the iPhoney, which is lovingly hand polished by young children in blue asbestos mines. Hendrik who is not sending this from a phone On 15/02/13 11:24, d

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread WILTON
Yeah, the broken speedo is no excuse; may be a little part of the reason, but is no excuse. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Max Dillon" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Max Dillon
Did you point out the dead bugs on your REAR window? I think this is worth the court appearance, if he has no evidence the judge will probably dismiss. Get a haircut and be sure to shave, wear clean conservative clothes, be respectful, you'll probably win. Usually even when the cop has eviden

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread WILTON
y, February 14, 2013 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! 240Ds can run high speeds all day long. If running 75-80 doesn't feel good, then something is wrong. It may take a bit of time to get there, however, and a hill can set you back somewhat. But if something feels s

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread WILTON
How much was the tailwind? ;<) Wilton - Original Message - From: To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 7:54 PM Subject: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!! I got pulled over this afternoon on the Maine Turnpike. Trooper claimed that I wa

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Jaime Kopchinski
240Ds can run high speeds all day long. If running 75-80 doesn't feel good, then something is wrong. It may take a bit of time to get there, however, and a hill can set you back somewhat. But if something feels scary, you need to fix it. You're not doing any damage if the engine is well maintai

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Tim Crone
In NC no speedometer is also improper equipment, no insurance points for that one. I thought older 240Ds indeed did top out at 78? Not sure what Dmitri has. I don't think my '74 ever broke 80, and if it was possible I think that car would have done it. Not that it matters, the attorney doesn't

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread clay monroe
IT will max out at 85, but you better not try to keep it there for longer than a minute. Being able to get it there would be hard for a 30 year old car. On Feb 14, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: > Probably it's your word against his, but yes, they have to have proof of a > speed rea

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread clay monroe
by all means! he has to prove his claim. And we all know that a 30 year old 240D is not able to go that fast without the driver intending to push the car to its limits. Gump was able to chug along at 65 with minimal strain. Get it over 70 and you knew it was getting to the red zone. Sustain

Re: [MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread Peter Frederick
Probably it's your word against his, but yes, they have to have proof of a speed reading in order to write a ticket. The judge may get a kick out of this case -- however, a 240D will do about 85 max, don't lie to him. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com Fo

[MBZ] Speeding ticket in a 240D??!!

2013-02-14 Thread dseretakis
I got pulled over this afternoon on the Maine Turnpike. Trooper claimed that I was doing 78mph. I don't agree but my speedo doesn't work. When I'm doing 78 mph, I: 1) realize that I'm speeding. 2) am intentionally trying to push my car to its limit. Neither condition was met. I told the trooper