Re: Dumbocrat tells the truth

2004-07-29 Thread Max B. Sawicky
ocrat tells the truth Dumbocrat candidate JFK just slipped up and told the truth: "I will double our special forces in order to conduct terrorist operations." Thats what he said. Shane Mage "Thunderbolt steers all things...It consents and does not consent to be called Zeus." Herakleitos of Ephesos

Dumbocrat tells the truth

2004-07-29 Thread Shane Mage
Dumbocrat candidate JFK just slipped up and told the truth: "I will double our special forces in order to conduct terrorist operations." Thats what he said. Shane Mage "Thunderbolt steers all things...It consents and does not consent to be called Zeus." Herakleitos of Ephesos

Slate/Noah: Park Service terminates its truth-telling police chief

2004-07-13 Thread Michael Pollak
didn't directly control.] http://slate.msn.com/id/2103739/ chatterboxGossip, speculation, and scuttlebutt about politics. Gagging the Fuzz, Part 6 The Park Service formally terminates its truth-telling police chief. By Timothy Noah Posted Monday, July 12, 2004, at 5:47

my Guardian piece: Truth, justice and corporate sway

2004-05-03 Thread nomi prins
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1208340,00.html   Truth, justice and corporate sway Nomi Prins Monday May 3, 2004 The Guardian Mark Twain once said: "We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world; and its efficiency is only marred b

The Truth About the Reagan Deficits

2004-02-10 Thread Diane Monaco
The Truth About the Reagan Deficits Washington Post By Linda BilmesTuesday, February 10, 2004; Page A23 The Bush budget announced last week shows revenue falling some $500 billion short of projected spending. Is this a cause for alarm, or is it true that, as Vice President Cheney reportedly

Telling the truth gets him fired

2003-11-19 Thread Louis Proyect
NY Times, November 19, 2003 Mexico Dismisses Its U.N. Envoy for Critical Remark About U.S. By TIM WEINER MEXICO CITY, Nov. 18 — Mexico's ambassador to the United Nations has been dismissed after saying the United States regards Mexico as a second-class country, government officials said Tuesday.

the Lynch truth is coming out...

2003-06-17 Thread Devine, James
Title: the Lynch truth is coming out... from MS SLATE's summary of top US newspapers: The Washington Post's top non-local story is a huge revisionist piece on Pfc. Jessica Lynch's saga and concludes that the story of her capture and rescue "is far more complex and diff

The truth leaks out

2003-06-05 Thread Louis Proyect
Guardian, Wednesday June 4, 2003 Wolfowitz: Iraq war was about oil George Wright Oil was the main reason for military action against Iraq, a leading White House hawk has claimed, confirming the worst fears of those opposed to the US-led war. The US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz - who

re: Palestine Truth Tour 2003 Michael Hoover

2003-01-06 Thread Hari Kumar
Dear Michael: How may one 'book' this tour - or elements of the tour - for Canadian venues? Hari

Palestine Truth Tour 2003

2003-01-01 Thread Michael Hoover
fight the hate, end the occupation PALESTINE TRUTH TOUR 2003 First-hand reports from Palestine. With speakers, video, photos, and more. Will feature new video from the filmmaking collective Big Noise Films (www.bignoisefilms.com) as well as speakers with eyewitness reports from Palestine. The

The truth slips out

2002-11-22 Thread Louis Proyect
From the newly published "Bush at War" by Bob Woodward: "The president emerged wearing a New York Fire Department windbreaker. He raised his arm and gave a thumbs-up to the crowd on the third base side of the field. Probably 15,000 fans threw their arms in the air imitating the motion. He then

Re: Doug tells the truth

2002-05-17 Thread Sabri Oncu
> I am sure Michael will want this thread closed > for content, as he did in November, but perhaps > Max can clarify where the technical problem is. > > Chris Burford Such things happen every now and then. Virus is definitely one possibility, a very long and very slow trip with delays around the

Re: Re: RE: Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2002-05-17 Thread Chris Burford
At 17/05/02 00:28 -0400, you wrote: >Where the fuck did this come from? And why is it dated Nov 24 2002? > >Doug The letter from Mark Jones quoted by Max was originally sent on Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:04:31 + Although Max sent a number of posts on this thread on 26 Nov I can find no record o

Re: Re: RE: Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2002-05-16 Thread Michael Perelman
I wrote to Max an hour ago trying to find out the origin of this. Mark has not been here for some time. On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 12:28:18AM -0400, Doug Henwood wrote: > Max Sawicky wrote: > > >MJ: "The truth"about Doug 'I'm no pacifist' Henwood is that

RE: Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2002-05-16 Thread Max Sawicky
MJ: "The truth"about Doug 'I'm no pacifist' Henwood is that he, too, is in favour of US policy, that is, Henwood favours the policy of bombing Afghan towns and cities, he favours the random and/or mass slaughter of Afghanis, he favours the destruction of whate

RE: The Consequences of Telling the Truth About Palestine

2002-04-10 Thread michael pugliese
her spending that is offset by revenues. If you applied this adjustment to *all* spending, you would get a total interest obligation vastly in excess of the actual amount. In other words, suppose total spending is $10, revenues are $8, and aid to Israel is $1. In truth, only $2 is added to debt,

The Consequences of Telling the Truth About Palestine

2002-04-10 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 14:19:35 -0400 From: John Lacny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [It's No Accident] The Consequences of Telling the Truth About Palestine To: "It's No Accident" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A Special Announcment from It's No Accident, April 9, 20

The Forbidden Truth

2002-01-12 Thread Mohammad Maljoo
BIN LADEN: THE FORBIDDEN TRUTH ABOUT BUSH, OIL AND WASHINGTON'S SECRET NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE TALIBAN At Democracy Now! we have often called the Bush administration the Oiligarchy. Vice-President Dick Cheney of course was the president of Halliburton, a company that provides services fo

Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-27 Thread Charles Brown
Max tells the "truth" by Max Sawicky 26 November 2001 Selective pacifism reflects confusion. Consistent pacifism is not confused; it's just wrong. % CB: If you are not a selective pacifist and not a consistent pacificist, does this mean you are in some sense against pe

RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Brownson, Jamil
wives and at least as many mistresses. Binary thinking is a Western mental disorder. -Original Message- From: Max Sawicky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 9:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:19949] RE: Max tells the "truth"

Re: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Greg Schofield
ceived --- From: Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:59:44 -0800 Subject: [PEN-L:19957] Re: RE: Re: Max tells the "truth"

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread ravi
Max Sawicky wrote: > Selective pacifism reflects confusion. > Consistent pacifism is not confused; it's just wrong. > where is the confusion? if i state a theory and explicitly specify the outliers, would you call that confused? if i were to say "i am a pacifist in the sense that i oppose all

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: "Max Sawicky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 1:58 PM Subject: [PEN-L:19987] RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth" > Selective pacifism reflects confusion. > Consiste

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Max Sawicky
Selective pacifism reflects confusion. Consistent pacifism is not confused; it's just wrong. mbs t I will settle for simple confusion, > borne of excessive exposure to bad propaganda. > mbs === Ghandi was confused? MLK?. Ian

Re: RE: Re: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: "Max Sawicky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Now things are really getting nasty. Bad writing. Hmmmph. > No, a selective pacifist is one who professes universal principles -- > opposition to any use of organized violence -- but applies them to > fewer than all wars.

Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-26 Thread Charles Brown
Doug tells the truth.. by Doug Henwood ((( CB: Doug, if imperialism/globalization is not the main cause of terrorism, what is the cause of terrorism ? ((( But are > things really that simple? Latin America and East> Asia, two of the > reg

RE: Re: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Max Sawicky
CC: First a couple of minor points. (1) I think it best to keep the word "pacifist" to name those who oppose any and all war under all conditions. In this sense Max's term, "selective pacifist," is simple bad writing. Is there anyone who has ever approved of all wars? Gee. . . . Now things are r

Re: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Carrol Cox
"Devine, James" wrote: > > > > BTW, in terms of strategy & tactics, I'm a pacifist. I don't think that the > left should engage in violence unless it's absolutely necessary. Further, it > might be okay it's done in a way to promote grass-roots democracy and > popular power. The latter is real

RE: RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Max Sawicky
jd again: . . . It depends on whether Lenin were leading a workers' democratic government or not and acted according to the principles of workers' democracy. If he were a dictator of the proletariat rather than being subject to the democratic will of the proletariat, he could easily be as bad as B

RE: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Devine, James
mbs: > ... The selectivity [of pacifism] derives from a variation of "within the revolution everything/against the revolution, nothing." There is purportedly some threshold of righteousness that excuses uses of force resulting in non-trivial levels of atrocity (death of innocents, etc.), and belo

Re: RE: Re: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Michael Perelman
First of all, this sort of exchange has no place here. Second, this particular debate seems to involve Max vs. the others. When we reach that stage, especially when it becomes repetitive, it is time to stop. On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:51:00AM -0500, Max Sawicky wrote: > then why write to me? >

Re: RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Michael Perelman
Wierd, my wife told me the same thing last night. On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 12:14:42PM -0500, Max Sawicky wrote: > You are all morally confused and locked into pamphlet time warp ("war > credits"!). But you are not vile. Perelman's mung bean casserole is vile. -- Michael Perelman Economics Depar

RE: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Max Sawicky
rritory. There isn't sufficient reason not to apply that logic to the U.S. v. taliban/al qaida. You are all morally confused and locked into pamphlet time warp ("war credits"!). But you are not vile. Perelman's mung bean casserole is vile. yrs in truth, mbs

RE: Re: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Max Sawicky
then why write to me? Sorry Max but I have found your attitude beyond the pale or reasonable discourse. Greg Schofield Perth Australia

Re: Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread Greg Schofield
but I have found your attitude beyond the pale or reasonable discourse. Greg Schofield Perth Australia --- Message Received --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:51:50 + Subject: [PEN-L:19923] Max tells the "truth" [was: RE:[PEN-L:19912] RE:

Max tells the "truth"

2001-11-26 Thread jdevine
[was: RE:[PEN-L:19912] RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doug tells thetruth..] Max Sawicki writes: >Now let us all bow our heads in a moment of silence over the impending demise of several thousand fascist, anti-semitic, misogynist terrorists. (One suspects they are not down wi

Let's kill this thread: was Re: Doug tells the truth, etc.

2001-11-24 Thread Michael Perelman
I think that we can drop the title of this thread. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Doug tells the truth, etc.

2001-11-24 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
> > Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes here. Doug, Steve, Joan >> Robinson, etc. are saying that under capitalism it's better to be >> employed than unemployed; Ali, Paul, etc. are saying that capitalism >> on the periphery is very much worse than other modes of production & >> especia

RE:Re: Doug tells the truth, etc.

2001-11-24 Thread jdevine
Christian writes:>To be "unemployed" is to be within capital's orbit (ie it's a distinction that applies to populations constructed statistically by nation-states and super-national bodies.) Robinson is saying that being outside of that orbit is far worse than being in it. That is, even unemploy

Re: Doug tells the truth, etc.

2001-11-24 Thread Christian Gregory
> > Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes here. Doug, Steve, Joan > Robinson, etc. are saying that under capitalism it's better to be > employed than unemployed; Ali, Paul, etc. are saying that capitalism > on the periphery is very much worse than other modes of production & > especially so wh

Re: Re: Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-23 Thread Michael Perelman
Doug went into more detail in LBO, but Stephen, you should not pile onto the flames by attacking Mark. On Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 07:12:22AM -1000, Stephen E Philion wrote: > > --Wierd, on other lists I've not seen any evidence of this. He's > challenged the likes of Leo Casey on LBO and Soc. Regis

Re: Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-23 Thread Stephen E Philion
Mark in the apoplectic mode contends: "The truth"about Doug 'I'm no pacifist' Henwood is that he, too, is in favour of US policy, that is, Henwood favours the policy of bombing Afghan towns and cities, he favours the random and/or mass slaughter of Afghanis, he f

Re: Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-23 Thread Justin Schwartz
> >When assessing 'the truth' of Henwood's politics, let us begin with this >obvious fact -- the man is simply a craven apologist for exterminism, for >US imperialism in its newest and most lethal guise. > > Oh, he's worse than that. He's a running

Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-23 Thread Michael Perelman
Doug seems to suggest that since Afghan. has been relatively untouched by globalization, the link between terror and globalization has yet to be proved. Of course, I have not heard of any Afghani terrorists; supposedly many of the hijackers on S 11 were from Saudi Arabia. -- Michael Perelman Ec

Re: Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-23 Thread Michael Perelman
whoa, Mark. Rather than characterize Doug as a craven apologist, let him elaborate if he wants to do so. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-23 Thread Mark Jones
"The truth"about Doug 'I'm no pacifist' Henwood is that he, too, is in favour of US policy, that is, Henwood favours the policy of bombing Afghan towns and cities, he favours the random and/or mass slaughter of Afghanis, he favours the destruction of whate

Doug tells the truth or equal retort

2001-11-23 Thread ALI KADRI
ploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all.") These facts complicate the simple derivation of terrorism from globalization." Isn't this too economoizing, ie reductionist, and therefore economizing with the truth. Waht is this hang up with th

Re: Doug tells the truth....

2001-11-23 Thread Chris Burford
At 22/11/01 23:18 -0800, you wrote: >< http://www.thenation.com > >FEATURE STORY | Special Report > >Terrorism and Globalization >by DOUG HENWOOD Doug's ability to "doubt everything" serves him well in this journalistic article which for the audience, may be more creative than coming up with p

Doug tells the truth..........................

2001-11-22 Thread Ian Murray
< http://www.thenation.com > FEATURE STORY | Special Report Terrorism and Globalization by DOUG HENWOOD The organizers of the Globalization and Resistance Conference, held at the City University of New York's Graduate Center on November 16 and 17, had a very bad stroke of luck. They started pl

Re: True Hegelian Truth & Eonic Effect, + adios (almost)

2001-06-05 Thread Nemonemini
Thanks a lot for the gesture, and to Michael also. I will be on my way soon, hounded off the list--nope, I am never hounded, I am done for the nonce. Doesn't matter. This kind of hostility wears off. I must remember just how hard it is to really deal with issues of ideology and evolution. I hop

Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-04 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
> >So, what's to be done, practically speaking? Work within the >>Colombia Action Network or get a FARC solidarity group going if you >>can? >> >>Yoshie > >Little confused by your question. The CAN, while not exactly a FARC >solidarity group (this might land you in jail), is about as close as yo

Re: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-04 Thread Louis Proyect
>So, what's to be done, practically speaking? Work within the >Colombia Action Network or get a FARC solidarity group going if you >can? > >Yoshie Little confused by your question. The CAN, while not exactly a FARC solidarity group (this might land you in jail), is about as close as you can co

Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-04 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
>Max: >>Opposing U.S. intervention does not depend on solidarity >>with the FARC or anyone else. Presumably most people >>here who opposed NATO in the Balkans were not practising >>solidarity w/Milo. > >Actually, the same divide that existed with respect to US intervention in >Yugoslavia exists w

RE: Re: RE: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Max Sawicky
Max: >Opposing U.S. intervention does not depend on solidarity >with the FARC or anyone else. Presumably most people >here who opposed NATO in the Balkans were not practising >solidarity w/Milo. Actually, the same divide that existed with respect to US intervention in Yugoslavia exists with resp

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Rob Schaap
> I fail to see a need for any position on this more > finely articulated than U.S. out of Colombia, > hands off, get the fuck out, period. Anyone left > on the ground in Colombia obviously has more > a more complicated life. It's not clear they > need our advice. Onya, Max! Sledgehammer-simpl

Re: RE: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Jim Devine
At 08:00 PM 06/03/2001 -0400, you wrote: >Opposing U.S. intervention does not depend on solidarity >with the FARC or anyone else. Presumably most people >here who opposed NATO in the Balkans were not practising >solidarity w/Milo. damn straight. It's important to avoid the "enemy of my enemy is

The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Michael Perelman
Nathan, I should have added that I know that you were not the first to mention Kosovo, but I would hate to see us go over that again unless someone had something new to add. On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:45:26PM -0400, Nathan Newman wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Perelman" <[

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Michael Perelman
I was never an enthusiastic supporter of Milosevic, but the U.S. never opposed anybody because of human rights violations -- they only run into trouble if they inconvenience the U.S. On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:45:26PM -0400, Nathan Newman wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Michael Per

Re: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Louis Proyect
Nathan: >The comparison to Kosovo is a bit off, since while various groups may have >warmer or cooler attitudes towards the FARC itself, the more interesting >comparison is to attitudes towards the KLA, which like the FARC was the >rebel movement involved there. Many folks (including Lou) happily

Re: Re: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Nathan Newman
- Original Message - From: "Michael Perelman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Nathan, the KLA were like the FARC only if you see the Serbians as the bad >guys. We went over that fight already. I wasn't the one making the original comparison between Columbia and Kosovo, but even most of those who

Re: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Michael Perelman
Nathan, the KLA were like the FARC only if you see the Serbians as the bad guys. We went over that fight already. On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 09:09:45PM -0400, Nathan Newman wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Louis Proyect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Actually, the same divide that existed

Re: Re: RE: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Nathan Newman
- Original Message - From: "Louis Proyect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 8:11 PM Subject: [PEN-L:12681] Re: RE: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free Max: >Opposing U.S. intervention does not depend on solidarity >

Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Nathan Newman
- Original Message - From: "Louis Proyect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Actually, the same divide that existed with respect to US intervention in >Yugoslavia exists with respect to the impending war in Colombia. Nation >Magazine liberals, Z Magazine and the like opposed Nato's military actions >b

RE: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Max Sawicky
Max wrote: >There is also the small matter of the truth of >what is happening. Efforts to obscure this do >not uphold the credibility of the speaker, assuming >they have any credibility to begin with. >Acknowledgement of whatever crimes the FARC >et al. are guilty of would st

Re: RE: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Louis Proyect
Max: >Opposing U.S. intervention does not depend on solidarity >with the FARC or anyone else. Presumably most people >here who opposed NATO in the Balkans were not practising >solidarity w/Milo. Actually, the same divide that existed with respect to US intervention in Yugoslavia exists with resp

Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Michael Perelman
I am sorry if I gave you the impression that I want to paper over problems with the FARC. I only said that I thought that we don't have to bother with anti-FARC stuff here. On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 08:00:28PM -0400, Max Sawicky wrote: > Max wrote: > >There is also the small matte

Re: Double Standards: was: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Michael Perelman
Please Steve, cool it. On Sun, Jun 03, 2001 at 11:34:59AM -1000, Stephen E Philion wrote: > On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Louis Proyect wrote: > > > Michael wrote: > > >I hope that my double standard is clear. I know that the US has the > > >capacity to manufacture atrocities as well as to cover them up.

Re: Double Standards: was: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Louis Proyect
I just added you to the Marxism list. If you want to start a flame war, you can do it over there instead of provoking me on PEN-L. At 11:34 AM 6/3/01 -1000, you wrote: >On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Louis Proyect wrote: > >> Michael wrote: >> >I hope that my double standard is clear. I know that the US h

Double Standards: was: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Stephen E Philion
On Sun, 3 Jun 2001, Louis Proyect wrote: > Michael wrote: > >I hope that my double standard is clear. I know that the US has the > >capacity to manufacture atrocities as well as to cover them up. > > > >Raymond Bonner got punished for trying to describe inconvenient > >atrocities; others get rew

Re: Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Louis Proyect
e FARC, Colombia would be even more of a graveyard for peasants than it is now. Between the death squads and the cops and army, the only protection a peasant has is a FARC combatant. That is what is so disgusting about the Washington Post article. It ellides this important truth. Without the FARC, C

Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Michael Perelman
loys atrocity reports can hardly > hope to delegitimize reports consistent with a > contrary political view. > > There is also the small matter of the truth of > what is happening. Efforts to obscure this do > not uphold the credibility of the speaker, assuming &g

Re: The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Louis Proyect
Max wrote: >There is also the small matter of the truth of >what is happening. Efforts to obscure this do >not uphold the credibility of the speaker, assuming >they have any credibility to begin with. >Acknowledgement of whatever crimes the FARC >et al. are guilty of would st

The Truth Will Set You Free

2001-06-03 Thread Max Sawicky
reports consistent with a contrary political view. There is also the small matter of the truth of what is happening. Efforts to obscure this do not uphold the credibility of the speaker, assuming they have any credibility to begin with. Acknowledgement of whatever crimes the FARC et al. are

Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-03 Thread Nemonemini
If truth is whole, Hegelian truth would do well to be studied in the context of the whole of German philosophy, if not world philosophy. The sudden re-start, in medias res, in the wake of Kant and the mysterious decade of the 1790's as Kant's system is a) transcended b) plundered of

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Nemonemini
In a message dated 6/2/2001 1:57:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hegel is definitely a believer in conflict. He dared to undertake a consummation of Philosophy, Western and Eastern. He embraced the resulting conflict despite finding it disturbing. Maybe his search for the

Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Ken Hanly
As I recall, Thrasymachus says that justiice is the interest of the stronger not the right of the stronger. Why would you read it as a statement about the right of the peasantry and artisans to participate in politics. Surely Thrasymachus did not take them as the stronger. Thrasymachus and Protago

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Nemonemini
In a message dated 6/2/2001 1:57:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hegel is definitely a believer in conflict. He dared to undertake a consummation of Philosophy, Western and Eastern. He embraced the resulting conflict despite finding it disturbing. Maybe his search for the

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Andrew Hagen
ion: > >"The True is the whole. But the whole is only the [being / creature / >nature / essence] fulfilling itself through its development. It should be >said of the Absolute that it is essentially result, that it is not what it >is in truth until the end; and this is pre

Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Carrol Cox
Jim Devine wrote: > > > > What is the whole? How could we possibly test/verify/falsify Hegel's > > > assertion [that the truth -- or the true -- is the whole]? > > I liked Carrol's answer, but I have my own. Hegel's assertion is more a way >

Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Jim Devine
> > What is the whole? How could we possibly test/verify/falsify Hegel's > > assertion [that the truth -- or the true -- is the whole]? I liked Carrol's answer, but I have my own. Hegel's assertion is more a way of testing/verifying/falsifying theories than

Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Carrol Cox
Ian Murray wrote: > > >LARGE CLIP] > > What is the whole? How could we possibly test/verify/falsify Hegel's > assertion? It was Protagoras who said "man is the measure..." > There are multiple answers to this. One is that you can't not believe it. You see the line you are now rea

Re: Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-02 Thread Joanna Sheldon
only the [being / creature / nature / essence] fulfilling itself through its development. It should be said of the Absolute that it is essentially result, that it is not what it is in truth until the end; and this is precisely what its nature to be [actual / real (thing)], subject, or [self-realisati

Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-01 Thread Andrew Hagen
. . Hence, it is all continuous. . . . " The writing style gives it away as the ancient Greek, but otherwise it would pass for the crusty Teuton. (At least his precursor.) We're sent on a journey from questions of existence to those of ethics, choice, change, and ultimately, we return to the t

Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-01 Thread Ken Hanly
-being. Reality is a whole, or plenum, probably spherical. The truth is the whole or the One but there are no holes in it! It is certainly not the Absolute Mind or Whatever...it just is or BE's .to say anything else gets you into the realm of opinion... Cheers, Ken Hanly > Actually,

Re: Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-01 Thread Ian Murray
> (Coming in on this thread late, here, sorry, just got back on the list this > morning) > > >"Die Wahrheit ist die Ganze" will translate as "The truth is the whole." I > >am pretty sure that is how Miller does it. --jks > > > Actually, Hegel&#

Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-06-01 Thread Joanna Sheldon
(Coming in on this thread late, here, sorry, just got back on the list this morning) >"Die Wahrheit ist die Ganze" will translate as "The truth is the whole." I >am pretty sure that is how Miller does it. --jks Actually, Hegel's phrase is "Das Wahre ist d

Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-31 Thread Clara Ryan
- Original Message - From: Carrol Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >How do you interpret this distinction? A guess: Diesing's translation >emphasizes that "the truth" as a static entity does not exist but is >rather a constantly changing process, with which it

Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Rob Schaap
Jim Devine wrote: > > At 11:19 AM 05/30/2001 +0300, you wrote: > >Jim Devine writes: > > > >As Baran & Sweezy quote Hegel to say, "the truth is the whole." > > > >= > > > >According to Paul Diesing, this should actually read &q

Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Jim Devine
At 12:46 PM 5/30/01 -0400, you wrote: >Keaney Michael wrote: > >>Jim Devine writes: >> >>As Baran & Sweezy quote Hegel to say, "the truth is the whole." >> >>= >> >>According to Paul Diesing, this should actually read "the t

Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Doug Henwood
Keaney Michael wrote: >Jim Devine writes: > >As Baran & Sweezy quote Hegel to say, "the truth is the whole." > >= > >According to Paul Diesing, this should actually read "the true is the >whole". And of course Adorno said "the whole is the false." Doug

Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Tom Walker
Well, according to Tim Horton's "the hole is the Timbit." >Jim Devine writes: > >As Baran & Sweezy quote Hegel to say, "the truth is the whole." > >= > >According to Paul Diesing, this should actually read "the true is the >whole". > >Michael K. Tom Walker Bowen Island, BC 604 947 2213

Re: Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Justin Schwartz
"Die Wahrheit ist die Ganze" will translate as "The truth is the whole." I am pretty sure that is how Miller does it. --jks > >At 11:19 AM 05/30/2001 +0300, you wrote: >>Jim Devine writes: >> >>As Baran & Sweezy quote Hegel to say, "the t

Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Jim Devine
At 11:19 AM 05/30/2001 +0300, you wrote: >Jim Devine writes: > >As Baran & Sweezy quote Hegel to say, "the truth is the whole." > >= > >According to Paul Diesing, this should actually read "the true is the >whole". > >Michael K. does

True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Keaney Michael
Carrol asks: How do you interpret this distinction? A guess: Diesing's translation emphasizes that "the truth" as a static entity does not exist but is rather a constantly changing process, with which it is possible (more or less) to align the mind, but that alignment will

Re: True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Carrol Cox
How do you interpret this distinction? A guess: Diesing's translation emphasizes that "the truth" as a static entity does not exist but is rather a constantly changing process, with which it is possible (more or less) to align the mind, but that alignment will be more or less unt

True Hegelian Truth

2001-05-30 Thread Keaney Michael
Jim Devine writes: As Baran & Sweezy quote Hegel to say, "the truth is the whole." = According to Paul Diesing, this should actually read "the true is the whole". Michael K.

Truth, Not Caricature (was Re: Slobo)

2000-10-10 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Justin: >In a message dated 10/8/00 4:52:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > ><< I have never said that Milosevic is a > proponent of socialism > >I am relieved; I thought you were losing it. One could have got that >impression. Why so? I don't think anyone who has read my

Re: LM's Truth (was Re: Pro-ITN Libel Suit Post)

2000-03-17 Thread Michael Keaney
K Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 17/3/00 2:14 pm, Doug Henwood at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Michael Keaney wrote: > >> And speaking of questionable friends, among those rallying to the support of >> LM, or at the very least taking Guardian journ

Re: Re: LM's Truth (was Re: Pro-ITN Libel Suit Post)

2000-03-17 Thread Doug Henwood
Michael Keaney wrote: >And speaking of questionable friends, among those rallying to the support of >LM, or at the very least taking Guardian journalist Ed Vulliamy to task for >attacking LM's defence of actions committed in the name of the Serbs, is no >less than Alfred Sherman, Who? > as a p

Re: LM's Truth (was Re: Pro-ITN Libel Suit Post)

2000-03-17 Thread Michael Keaney
d I been so "compelled" I would have been as enthusiastic a supporter of the NATO bombing campaign -- something I was most certainly not. And questioning the motives behind LM, its raison d'etre, is a valid pursuit. > In reality, supporters of Western imperialism > &

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