Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Indeed, this is exactly what I was thinking. From an engineering maintenance perspective, even if you managed to get something "working", the result would be an incomprehensible mess. I don't usually like to speak in such extremes, and I certainly don't mean any offense, but in this case it's

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 8/4/2020 7:21 AM, pangoSE wrote: I suggest we wait for ruffle to be ready and then compile P2 to first wasm and then decompile it into C and then translate it into rust. It can then be cleaned up and shipped to both as a desktop application and a wasm binary run in the browser. ruffle -> 

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Am 04.08.2020 um 17:05 schrieb Alexandre Oliveira: >> At this time nobody is proposing anything more than giving P2 a bit more >> life for a small sum of money > And as myself and others have brought up, it's not a good idea to > spend money to port P2 from a dead technology to another dead >

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 4. Aug 2020, at 16:53, Simon Poole wrote: > > but it isn't a good measure of what the OSMF should spend its money on, weere > applying an 80/20 rule is likely to be far more appropriate. > As I have said, I’m fine with spending 2500 on a dead proprietary technology

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 4. Aug 2020, at 16:26, Matthew Woehlke wrote > > Obviously, this would all almost surely be a temporary mode (maybe it > persists as long as JOSM is open, but isn't uploaded), but since you usually > draw once, that would be fine. (Bonus points if JOSM could

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

> At this time nobody is proposing anything more than giving P2 a bit more life > for a small sum of money And as myself and others have brought up, it's not a good idea to spend money to port P2 from a dead technology to another dead technology, if people still use it it's much more beneficial

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Could we move all the programming language du jour fanboying, apps that have nothing to do OSM and other unrelated to the topic discussions somewhere else please? And yes it underlines my point that regardless of how exotic the feature is, you are always going to find somebody that finds it

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 04/08/2020 08.10, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: On 4. Aug 2020, at 13:58, Matthew Woehlke wrote: but I would practically *kill* for JOSM to have FreeCAD's suite of sketch constraints ;-). you’re aware that there are sketch constraints for configurable angles (90, 60, 45 etc) and projection

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

We should not ask anyone to do 2 months development work for 2500 euros. I believe this size grant is only enough for 1 to 2 weeks, based on international prices (though I do not have any paid experience in this field) - Joseph Eisenberg On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:08 AM pangoSE wrote: > I

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 4. Aug 2020, at 13:58, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > but I would practically *kill* for JOSM to have FreeCAD's suite of sketch > constraints ;-). you’re aware that there are sketch constraints for configurable angles (90, 60, 45 etc) and projection snaps? Hit 2 times

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 04/08/2020 05.30, pangoSE wrote: On older hardware like my 2 core 2ghz laptop iD is slow. Loading while saving an edit is slow, while JOSM is always fast and saving does not close the edit view so you can continue without waiting for a browser to load the iD editor again which is also

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Martin Koppenhoefer skrev: (3 augusti 2020 01:10:09 CEST) > > >sent from a phone > >> On 2. Aug 2020, at 18:11, Guillaume Rischard > wrote: >> >> As someone who’s listed as having used 9 different editors on >https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Stereo (including “unknown”), I know how >important the

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

mmd skrev: (2 augusti 2020 11:31:21 CEST) >On 2020-08-01 12:42, Richard Fairhurst wrote: >> Ruffle is showing promise (https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle) and >is >> under very active development, but does not yet support AS3 or the >Flash >> Player features that P2 needs. I would anticipate

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 4. Aug 2020, at 12:28, Andy Townsend wrote: > > I wrote down what I was there, other people's GPS traces, etc. etc.) and that > really needs a desktop editor. +1, while mobile editors are a great addition to our toolset, they cannot substitute desktop editors. A

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

I disagree. For that sum of money I would be willing to start writing a new editor in Rust compiled to WebAssembly and desktop and reach a state of basic editing useability in 2 months. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohuTy8MmbLc Cheers Joseph Eisenberg skrev: (3 augusti 2020 01:00:49

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 04/08/2020 11:19, pangoSE wrote: I would recommend you to use another way to archive this. Open OsmAnd on your phone and add a POI directly. You can add tags too if you remember them. Then upload directly to OSM. No JOSM or GPX file handling neccesary. I use Vespucci for exactly that (no,

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

I would recommend you to use another way to archive this. Open OsmAnd on your phone and add a POI directly. You can add tags too if you remember them. Then upload directly to OSM. No JOSM or GPX file handling neccesary. Andy Townsend skrev: (3 augusti 2020 00:09:44 CEST) >On 02/08/2020 22:52,

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

I agree with this. Particularly Rust compiled to WebAssembly look very promising for building applications like an editor. Rust is fast and safe and it already has multiple OSM related crates. See here for an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHJjmsw_Sx0 An editor written in Rust and

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Hi Matthew Woehlke skrev: (3 augusti 2020 16:14:13 CEST) >On 02/08/2020 06.05, Simon Poole wrote: > >I'm not saying iD is *bad*. It's a very nice editor *for its >capabilities*. It's great for making *small* changes or introducing >someone to OSM editing... but there are a lot of use cases

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 02/08/2020 06.05, Simon Poole wrote: Extending this a bit further, you could just as well say, given that all current and actively maintained general purpose editors require 1-2 FTEs, the OSMF should simply block all non-iD editors and tell the developers to either work on iD or go home.

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Regarding Potlatch user numbers, here are some more stats: http://osm.townsendjennings.com/potlatch.html Looks like 300+ users per week are still submitting ~2,000 changesets with 200k-400k edits via Potlatch (as counted by ‘%potlatch%’ in the

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 2. Aug 2020, at 18:11, Guillaume Rischard wrote: > > As someone who’s listed as having used 9 different editors on > https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Stereo (including “unknown”), I know how important > the variety and richness of editing possibilities is. agreed.

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

While the benefit of making Potlatch 2 on AIR is small, the cost is tiny. 2500 Euros is an insignificant price to pay for supporting an editor which is still used by a couple of thousand long-term users. I support this expenditure. – Joseph Eisenberg On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 10:05 AM Alexandre

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 3. Aug 2020, at 00:09, Andy Townsend wrote: > >> I guess this is about not handling symbols? > > > Not really - see > https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/6368/in-josm-is-it-possible-to-see-gpx-track-waypoint-details > for information. the second answer

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 02/08/2020 22:52, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 2. Aug 2020, at 17:09, Andy Townsend wrote: GPX track waypoint handling is the biggest missing piece of functionality for me, so you can start with that one if you wish I guess this is about not handling symbols?

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 2. Aug 2020, at 17:09, Andy Townsend wrote: > > GPX track waypoint handling is the biggest missing piece of functionality for > me, so you can start with that one if you wish I guess this is about not handling symbols? Because Josm does show waypoints and their

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

And 2021 will be year of Linux on desktop. More seriously, maybe in long run  Windows will fall and Linux will survive but it is not happening in any near future. 2 Aug 2020, 16:41 by talk@openstreetmap.org: > Also Linux is the future. Every application that cannot run under Linux will > fail

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

I'd like to share my two cents on the matter of supporting Potlatch 2, an editor built with (now) dead technology. I don't think it's worth spending money to update P2 to Air. As others have stated, Air has been discontinued as well, and it was developed by Adobe, probably with the same amount of

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Am 02.08.2020 um 11:31 schrieb mmd: > ... > In a more mid-term, I really like to see a move away from such > proprietary platforms to an editor that runs in a browser > out-of-the-box. ... Don't we already have that? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

ooting > it. The distribution approach as an argument for priorizing support for > Android is therefore questionable) more than iOS does. And iOS restricts you > more than Android does. > > Regards > > Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram > > > Original Message ---

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Hi, On 8/2/20 14:51, pangoSE wrote: > I never use nonfree software like flash so I never tried P2. What is so > special about it? Is there something hindering adding that specialness > (as a plugin perhaps) to JOSM? Every single Potlatch user has probably been told 20 times that they should be

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 2020-08-02 16:41, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote: > Also Linux is the future. Every application that cannot run under Linux will > fail in the long run. Remember that Windows shouldn't be the main target > platform anymore because it is dying and the society is to blame that they > don't get

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Air is not a zero security risk, but the exposure is much lower than the old days of Flash. I hate the security problems that came from Flash, as well as almost anything from Adobe, but I think the premise of this project to improve maintainability is important.   Although not part of this

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 02/08/2020 15:41, Sören Reinecke via talk wrote: Also Linux is the future. Every application that cannot run under Linux will fail in the long run. Remember that Windows shouldn't be the main target platform anymore because it is dying and the society is to blame that they don't get it.

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2From: James To: john whelan CC: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Personally I use Linux and I fail to see why funding an application that isn't multiplatform. I choose to use linux

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Personally I use Linux and I fail to see why funding an application that isn't multiplatform. I choose to use linux as scripting/data manipulation is easier than windows. I will not install adobe air as it's discontinued on linux since 2011(security bugs anyone?). Development and bug fixes on

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

If Air is proprietary and an Adobe product I strongly suggest avoiding it purely from a security point of view. Adobe does not have a good reputation in the security world. Comments certainly have been made about Flash. I don't think we should be encouraging the installation of software that

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Is this the platform you are targeting? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_AIR Its proprietary which makes it prone to the same fate as Flash Player. Why even consider such a move? I never use nonfree software like flash so I never tried P2. What is so special about it? Is there something

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch

On 2020-08-02 11:55, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > The other is that  > 2020's P2 users, contrary to the cliche of 2010, are actually pretty > skilled and experienced (by definition the beginner users use iD > these days) - many of them have a four-figure number of  > changesets - so installing AIR

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Am 02.08.2020 um 01:03 schrieb Skyler Hawthorne: > ... > > Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think using any funds at all to > continue support for a tool that 1% of editors use would be wasteful. > Flash is, for all intents and purposes, a dead technology. This money > is better spent on other

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch

mmd wrote: > I'm wondering if some of the changes that are now needed for AIR > would make it more difficult to switch to Ruffle later on. The short answer is (based on the POC work I've done so far) no. :) The slightly longer answer is that I hope, as part of this project, to make a number of

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 2020-08-01 12:42, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > Ruffle is showing promise (https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle) and is > under very active development, but does not yet support AS3 or the Flash > Player features that P2 needs. I would anticipate that P2 will be able > to run as WebAssembly when

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Skyler Hawthorne wrote: > Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I think using any funds at all to > continue support for a tool that 1% of editors use would be wasteful. > Flash is, for all intents and purposes, a dead technology. This > money is better spent on other uses. The entire point is to move

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On July 31, 2020 20:29:33 Guillaume Rischard wrote: Potlatch 2 Potlatch 2 used to be the default editor before iD took the relay. While usage is declining, it’s still used by 2500 (1.4%) users who did 10 million (1.2%) changes in 2020. Potlatch is built in Flash, which browsers will retire

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

han iOS does. And iOS restricts you more than Android does.RegardsSören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2From: Richard Fairhurst To: talk@openstreetmap.orgCC: Sö

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

sent from a phone > On 1. Aug 2020, at 12:45, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > mmd wrote: > > Why aren't we porting Potlatch2 to WebAssembly, then? > > I'm not sure who the "we" is in this question, but assuming you're not > volunteering yourself :) we is the OpenStreetMap-Foundation and in

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

ort for its AIR plattform. If > that is right, then I am in doubt that supporting the development of Potlatch > 2 is not that in a sustainable manner. > > Cheers > > Sören Reinecke > > > ---- Original Message ---- > Subject: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infr

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Sören Reinecke wrote: > So far as I understood Adobe dropped Linux support for its > AIR plattform. If that is right, then I am in doubt that > supporting the development of Potlatch 2 is not that in > a sustainable manner. AIR is not maintained by Adobe, but by Harman, a Samsung subsidiary. AIR

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

On 2020-08-01 10:32, Simon Poole wrote: > That was a good decade ago, nothing that would factor in to a decision > now (because Linux could not be a target platform to start with).  > The Adobe AIR download page seems to suggest that Adobe AIR is only available on 64-bit Windows platforms. Do we

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

then I am in doubt that supporting the > development of Potlatch 2 is not that in a sustainable manner. > > Cheers > > Sören Reinecke > > > Original Message ---- > Subject: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : > Nominatim, osm2pgsql, P

Re: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

So far as I understood Adobe dropped Linux support for its AIR plattform. If that is right, then I am in doubt that supporting the development of Potlatch 2 is not that in a sustainable manner.CheersSören Reinecke Original Message Subject: [OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure

[OSM-talk] Funding of three infrastructure projects : Nominatim, osm2pgsql, Potlatch 2

Hi all, The OSMF Board wants to facilitate and support improving infrastructure. During the Microgrants process, there were proposals that didn’t make it, but would together be a good pilot for a “OSM infrastructure” process, to learn how supporting osm infrastructure projects works well. The