On Friday, January 05, 2007 2:27 PM [GMT+1=CET], James Mckenzie
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Harold:
No the problem is that our Readme makes it look like
users@openoffice.org is a technical HELP DESK. That is, I send you a
message and a panel of service agents send me a reply with the
answer.
On the risk of starting this discussion again (3rd time in the last
year?), I still think that Harold is absolutely right! An effort should
be made to reconsider the way we communicate, because the one we are
having now is annoying for users that just want an answer to their question
Arnold Hu
riginal Message-
>From: Arnold Huzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 5, 2007 5:07 PM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
>receipts)
>
>On the risk of starting this discussion again (3rd time in the l
>From: Harold Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 5, 2007 4:42 PM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
>receipts)
>
>On Friday, January 05, 2007 2:27 PM [GMT+1=CET], James Mckenzie
><[EMAIL PROTECT
On Jan 5, 2007, at 6:56 PM, James Mckenzie wrote:
Arnold:
Sadly, I disagree with both Harold and you. Forced registration
will make users read through the archives prior to
joining the list. I've answered over fifty times the same question
on installing X11 on the Mac so that OpenOffice.o
gt;
>Sent: Jan 5, 2007 8:18 PM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
>receipts)
>
>On Jan 5, 2007, at 6:56 PM, James Mckenzie wrote:
>
>> Arnold:
>>
>> Sadly, I disagree with both Harold and you
On Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:05 AM [GMT+1=CET], James Mckenzie
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I know your opinion on this. Commercial products do not allow
open posting of messages to them. You are forced to go through
the FAQs and possibly more. This is what our 'users' should go
through.
A
For the time being it is 3 to 1 in favour for another setup in this
discussion.
The thing we need to sort out is how do we best serve the users of
OpenOffice. Generally people do not read FAQ's, do not read manuals. So
by forcing them to subscribe to a mailinglist with up to hundreds of
unwan
.
In either case, reading the FAQs and archives should be done prior to
posting/subscribing.
James McKenzie
-Original Message-
>From: Arnold Huzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2007 4:54 AM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For
FAQ locations.
James McKenzie
-Original Message-
>From: Harold Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2007 3:28 AM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
>receipts)
>
>On Saturday, January 06, 200
;
Sent: Jan 6, 2007 4:54 AM
To: users@openoffice.org
Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
receipts)
For the time being it is 3 to 1 in favour for another setup in this
discussion.
The thing we need to sort out is how do we best serve the users of
Open
On Saturday 06 January 2007 03:54, Arnold Huzen wrote:
> For the time being it is 3 to 1 in favour for another setup in this
> discussion.
>
Well, here's a vote for retaining mailing lists. I detest web based forums,
all with their own format, and usually unbearably slow.
> The thing we need to
ginal Message-
From: Arnold Huzen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:54 AM
To: users@openoffice.org
Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users]
Return receipts)
For the time being it is 3 to 1 in favour for another setup in this
discussion.
On Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:31 PM [GMT+1=CET], Robert Smits
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Saturday 06 January 2007 03:54, Arnold Huzen wrote:
For the time being it is 3 to 1 in favour for another setup in this
discussion.
Well, here's a vote for retaining mailing lists. I detest web bas
I've been following this discussion with some interest and would also
generally support the wiki idea. If this was to be adopted it would
surely not just be a question of having content managers/moderators, it
would also be necessary to ensure that that it was easy for those that
are not compu
Robert wrote:
> Well, here's a vote for retaining mailing lists. I detest web based forums,
> all with their own format, and usually unbearably slow.
+1
From my perspective, support offered is thru a web forum is akin to
saying "we don't care about helping you. Go buy/use the competitors
produ
anuary 07, 2007 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users]
Return receipts)
Robert wrote:
Well, here's a vote for retaining mailing lists. I detest web based
forums,
all with their own format, and usually unbearably slow.
+1
From my perspective, suppo
'garbage' messages. And this was as a part of my
employment.
James McKenzie
-Original Message-
>From: Harold Fuchs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2007 5:34 PM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Re
Message-
>From: William Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2007 2:53 PM
>To: James Mckenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Cc: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users]
>Return receipts)
>
>Hi;
>
>I would l
] Forced Registration For This List (was Re:
[users]Return receipts)
Hi;
I would like to jump into this debate. I think the mailing list is
missing an opportunity here.
On Fri, 2007-01-05 at 19:56 -0700, James Mckenzie wrote:
> Arnold:
>
> Sadly, I disagree with both Harold and you
On Saturday 06 January 2007 16:34, Harold Fuchs wrote:
> Top Post
>
> I'm only voting for a web forum if registration is forced. The mailing
> list as it is now is fine by me. In fact I prefer it to web forums. But
> in my opinion forced registration and, more particularly, the consequent
> and ent
On Saturday 06 January 2007 16:34, Harold Fuchs wrote:
> Don't forget too that many OO users are still on slow dial-up lines
> using pay as you go tariffs so suddenly getting hundreds of irrelevant
> e-mails a day, some with attachments, is not going to be well regarded
> from a cost or time point
My experience with volunteer groups has been to let the experienced
members hang back when it comes to repetitive or simple questions and
encourage others to tackle responding. In those cases, the normal
monitors take on the role as mentors to new responders, encouraging and
correcting how the
but is not good for people that just want an answer to their question.
That is just the whole point, isn't it. We're asking for an easy way to
post questions without getting hundreds of unneed emails.
I have major issues with a FLOSS email client. The only support offered
for it is on a web
Robert Smits schreef:
You could reduce it by threefold if we separated out the Mac and Windows users
from the rest of us and had one list for each subset.
A lot of questions are not neccessarily OS-specific and I don't mind
reading them. If you split it up, a windows user may never see a Ca
Harold Fuchs wrote:
On Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:31 PM [GMT+1=CET], Robert Smits
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Saturday 06 January 2007 03:54, Arnold Huzen wrote:
For the time being it is 3 to 1 in favour for another setup in this
discussion.
Well, here's a vote for retaining mailing li
The issues raised by William Case (informal division of labour between more
and less experienced OOo users), Bob Smits (separate lists for Windows and
Mac users [and why not Linux users, whom I believe are well-represented
among OOo users], respectively), and Harold Fuchs (on the problems faced by
On Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:47 PM [GMT+1=CET], DougT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey, All,
It is long past time to move this thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
DougT
And get another sackful of unwanted mail?
Harold Fuchs
London, England
-
On Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:57 PM [GMT+1=CET], M Henri Day
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
1. Update FAQs frequently.
That's why I think a Wiki might be good; several people can update it
easily.
2. Redo the search function for the User Mail List Archives so that
it searches not only s
Robert Smits wrote:
On Saturday 06 January 2007 16:34, Harold Fuchs wrote:
I really don't think we ought to be
inflicting that kind of punishment on some poor soul even if they
couldn't be bothered to read the FAQs.
Like not top posting?
Let's please not get into a discussion of
Harold Fuchs wrote:
On Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:47 PM [GMT+1=CET], DougT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey, All,
It is long past time to move this thread to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
DougT
And get another sackful of unwanted mail?
Harold Fuchs
London, England
Do you mean like what you'r
With regard to the second point below, the risk is that users unfamiliar
with the site will, as I did, use the prominent search button in the
left-hand column, rather first than clicking on the (rather less-prominent)
«Search mailing list archive» button, and then on the «search body»
alternative.
On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 02:36:50 AM -, rob ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> My proposal, for what it is worth, would be while the readme and
> other documentation is being prepared, that I write answers to the
> six most popular questions and put the answers in a PDF file. I
> would circulate the PD
On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 14:57:02 PM +0100, M Henri Day
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Based on this experience, my suggestions to reduce the number of
> repeat questions from new users are as follows :
>
> 1. Update FAQs frequently.
> 2. Redo the search function for the User Mail List Archives so
On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 20:05:47 PM -0700, James Mckenzie
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> There is a reason that mail lists exist. However, this list is
> abused and some folks from SUN have even shut down their
> subscriptions because of it.
Sorry, what do you exactly mean by "abused" here? That it l
On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 12:54:00 PM +0100, Arnold Huzen
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> So by forcing them to subscribe to a mailinglist with up to
> hundreds of unwanted e-mails a day does not bring them the support
> they want.
A solution to answer (decently formatted) questions from unsubscribed
use
On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 16:10:20 PM -0800, Jonathon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
> > Well, here's a vote for retaining mailing lists. I detest web
> > based forums, all with their own format, and usually unbearably
> > slow.
>
> +1
Same here. Web based forums are absolutely unusabl
On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 14:07:41 PM +0100, Arnold Huzen
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >but is not good for people that just want an answer to their question.
> >
> That is just the whole point, isn't it. We're asking for an easy way
> to post questions without getting hundreds of unneed emails.
It
Marco:
That is a great solution, but did CPH ever try it?
James McKenzie
-Original Message-
>From: "M. Fioretti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 7, 2007 11:38 AM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [use
ot;M. Fioretti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 7, 2007 11:21 AM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
>receipts)
>
>On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 12:54:00 PM +0100, Arnold Huzen
>([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote
On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 15:27:23 PM -0700, James Mckenzie
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Marco:
>
> That is a great solution, but did CPH ever try it?
>
IIRC:
The first time I proposed it, he said that he had no time and/or
energy/skills to try it. I asked for details on his email and Linux
configu
07 11:15 AM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
>receipts)
>
>On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 20:05:47 PM -0700, James Mckenzie
>([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>> There is a reason that mail lists exist. Howeve
07 11:15 AM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users] Return
>receipts)
>
>On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 20:05:47 PM -0700, James Mckenzie
>([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>> There is a reason that mail lists exist. Howeve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Jan 7, 2007 11:02 AM
>To: users@openoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users]Return
>receipts)
>
>On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 02:36:50 AM -, rob ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>wrote:
>
>> My proposal, for what it
On Sun, Jan 07, 2007 15:37:36 PM -0700, James Mckenzie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> Marco:
>
> Answers to your comments below:
No need to send each message twice if you can avoid it, thanks.
Getting it through the list is enough. Interlaced answers are also
easier to understand for newcomers or
Caro Marco,
I agree that modifying a subject of the the type «Help !» to one which
better denominates the specific problem could be a way to make it easier for
inexperienced users to find relevant commentaries. I also agree that
changing the subject line to read something to the effect «you must
web site.
Rob
-Original Message-
From: James Mckenzie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07 January 2007 22:41
To: users@openoffice.org; M. Fioretti
Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re:
[users]Return receipts)
Marco and Rob:
An even better suggestion is to post
'James Mckenzie' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'M.
>Fioretti'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users]Return
>receipts)
>
>James and Marco
>
>I accept that cutting down e-mail traffic
On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 00:41:49 AM -, rob ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> James and Marco
>
> I accept that cutting down e-mail traffic is important
The fastest and easiest ways to contribute to reduce traffic are: to
NOT send multiple copies of the same message (direct _and_ to the
list) if your
M. Fioretti schreef:
> On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 12:54:00 PM +0100, Arnold Huzen
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>> So by forcing them to subscribe to a mailinglist with up to
>> hundreds of unwanted e-mails a day does not bring them the support
>> they want.
>
> A solution to answer (decently formatte
> What do other readers think of the requirement to post through a web page if
> you are not subscribed using a simple form like this:
> Your e-mail address:
> Subject of your question:
> Details on what you are trying to accomplish or problem:
>
> Note: Your message will be reviewed prior to po
2007/1/8, James Mckenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
What do other readers think of the requirement to post through a web
page if you are not subscribed using a simple form like this:
Your e-mail address:
Subject of your question:
Details on what you are trying to accomplish or problem:
Note: Your m
-Original Message-
From: M Henri Day [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 January 2007 10:18
To: users@openoffice.org; James Mckenzie
Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re:
[users]Return receipts)
2007/1/8, James Mckenzie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
What do
ce.org
>Subject: RE: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re: [users]Return
>receipts)
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: M Henri Day [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: 08 January 2007 10:18
>To: users@openoffice.org; James Mckenzie
>Subject: Re: [use
2007/1/8, rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
-Original Message-
From: M Henri Day [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 January 2007 10:18
To: users@openoffice.org; James Mckenzie
Subject: Re: [users] Forced Registration For This List (was Re:
[users]Return receipts)
2007/1/8, James Mc
Arnold Huzen wrote:
For the time being it is 3 to 1 in favour for another setup in this
discussion.
The thing we need to sort out is how do we best serve the users of
OpenOffice. Generally people do not read FAQ's, do not read manuals. So
by forcing them to subscribe to a mailinglist with up
On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 07:49:52 AM +0100, arnold huzen
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > A solution to answer (decently formatted) questions from
> > unsubscribed users without unnecessary messages to the lists or
> > any extra work from moderators and volunteers has been posted 2/3
> > times in the la
Re: [users]Return
>receipts)
>
>2007/1/8, rob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: M Henri Day [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: 08 January 2007 10:18
>> To: users@openoffice.org; James Mckenzie
>> Subject:
On Mon, Jan 08, 2007 21:29:04 PM -0700, James Mckenzie
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> However, if we can provide an example, most people will follow.
[~80/90 lines of original text, already posted to the list removed]
James,
whenever replying on a public forum, please do trim first as much as
po
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