Re: [css-d] New website

[MiB]

30 jan 2016 kl. 11:42 skrev D'Arcy J.M. Cain :

> Have you considered checking your database access?  WP sites basically
> get all their content from a MySQL database.If the database is slow
> that will slow down your site.

Well, this shouldn’t be true for server cached URL’s, would it? With a proper 
working cache, there should only be html, CSS, JS and media files to serve up. 
DB requests should only happen after an update or a cache rebuild.

That said, I’ve been just handed a dreadful Wordpress site, with a typical 
response time of 11 seconds and that have some in-page executing JS, that makes 
 total render time about 80 seconds (!). Compare that to my java driven site 
that responds in 0.2 seconds and renders in 2. Also in my own site performance 
per visitor increases or stay the same after initial load. In this WP site it 
gets worse and worse.

Also, the cache in this site seem to not be able to improve response times.

I’ll definitely minify the Style sheets and use gzip once I’ve installed and 
configured a new cache function. Thanks for those suggestions and reminder on 
Google insight, Philippe. Thanks Mike for the tip on gtmetrix.com and to 
everyone else sharing.

I find it very hard to get peer input in the world of Wordpress. You ask a 
simple question and get a response 1-2 years later. I could build a new site in 
another language in that time (and learn it from scratch). Where do you ask WP 
questions and get a response? Maybe there are good email discussion groups for 
WP?


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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[MiB]

jan 4 2016 20:38 GJim :

> I much prefer the mailing list rather than forums.

I’d like to point out that you can have a mailing list, a news group and a web 
site all mirroring each other. If that is practical from an installation, 
resource and maintenance viewpoint is a different question.

>From a personal resource and knowledge view point I think it might be better 
>to co-operate with larger groups and pool knowledge in other contexts instead 
>of being an island. The world and reality of web design has moved on very 
>quickly and new tools may be very relevant for new users.

I know that small less frequented corners of the net can give a feeling and 
possiblity of more personal conversations, so there is a value of this of 
course. But there’s also a balance that needs to be found.

In the end it’s people that counts. 

Personally I have no specific opinion on if the list should stay or not. I 
think fewer and fewer people prefer mailing lists, but this is quite uncertain 
and just an assumption.

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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[MiB]

dec 30 2015 Micky Hulse :

> Now my mind goes back to why. Why is there a lack of activity? This
> thought brings me back to the death of older browsers and the advent
> of browser support for new/easier ways of doing things related to CSS
> and HTML.

Nah, it’s stackoverflow. Only answers, little fluff. Web Development is just 
different, not easier.

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Re: [css-d] iPhone difference 5 & 5c ?

[MiB]

okt 14 2015 01:28 Crest Christopher :

> What if you don't have an iPhone or a Mac to begin with, there is no other 
> options besides Chrome, or am I wrong ?

Xcode has iphone emulation . I haven’t applied it recently, but I think you can 
run it separately from the coding in Xcode. I did this at some point, but I 
don’t remember the set up and it should have been changed now..I use Bluestacks 
for Android.


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Re: [css-d] CSS solution for a "curly" apostrophe

[MiB]

12 okt 2015 kl. 02:01 skrev Chris Williams :

> Yeah, well whatever.  I'm using Outlook on the Mac, which is not set to
> Korean, as Philip seems to believe.

When Philip quoted your letter, he didn’t think anything else beyond the fact 
that your message had among it message headers the character set "euc-kr”. As I 
do selectively here:

QUOTE
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
…
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
END QUOTE

See that third line? That’s all copied from your actual message. I sent you 
your whole message as an attachment separately. Interestingly when this 
character set was used I got your characters displayed as you intended, 
contrasting the first message where it was simply . Apple Mail in OS X 10.9.5.
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Re: [css-d] css for Android only?

[MiB]

7 sep 2015 kl. 21:07 skrev Philip Taylor <p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk>:

> 
> 
> MiB wrote:
> 
>> sep 3 2015 16:16 marie-ange.demeulemees...@bnpparibasfortis.com:
>> 
>>> The only way to detect Android is [J]avaS[c]ript.
>> 
>> It’s kinda pointless attempting to do this yourself as there are frameworks 
>> for this, also commercial. 
> 
> I would respectfully disagree.  It is /never/ pointless to attempt to do
> something oneself that could be accomplished using a library routine /
> framework / w-h-y.  By attempting to do it oneself, one learns; by using
> a library routine / framework / w-h-y, one learns almost nothing.
> 
> Philip Taylor

Well put, Philip. 
I’m just lazy that way and I choose where to invest my energy, which is the 
server back end.  But if it was a paying customer that needed this i’d choose a 
commercial alternative or a framework to save them the expense for me learning 
this. If it was a pro bono job I’d contemplate spending time also on learning 
something like this.

It’s always wise to leave as many options on the table as there are, until you 
need to make the choice.
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Re: [css-d] css for Android only?

[MiB]

sep 3 2015 16:16 marie-ange.demeulemees...@bnpparibasfortis.com:

> The only way to detect Android is javaSript.

It’s kinda pointless attempting to do this yourself as there are frameworks for 
this, also commercial. 

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Re: [css-d] Adaptive Background images ?

[MiB]

aug 16 2015 05:23 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 The problem is when those images are scaled; when an image is scaled between 
 small and medium there is pixelation, how can one sharpen the images when, 
 and only when there is a threshold between a small and medium image ? I've 
 been searching online and the most I found dealt with the img tag, not 
 background images.

I’m not sure I understand the problem nor why you think some sharpening will 
work, but the problem is interesting. I’m thinking that increased sharpening 
will only make pixelation worse. What you could do is move the break points, so 
that the largest an image is shown is at a stretch level where pixelation isn’t 
very noticeable. The largest image is typically beyond your control as you 
never can control how big display users will show your design on, unless you 
use a max size which I wouldn’t do as a designer.


/MiB

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Re: [css-d] Putting an image before list item text

[MiB]

jun 27 2015 00:54 Angela French afre...@sbctc.edu:

 I'm trying to put a recycle bin icon before the text Recycle Bin on a 
 SharePoint menu list item.   Is there a way to conditionally put the icon 
 when the list item text is Recycle Bin”?

Sounds like a server side problem to me.

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Re: [css-d] how to time table on small screens

[MiB]

27 maj 2015 kl. 05:47 skrev Chad Lundgren chad.lundg...@gmail.com:

 I like CSS Tricks's method of dealing with this issue:
 
 https://css-tricks.com/responsive-data-tables/


Me too. One of the better approaches.
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Re: [css-d] make site suitable for mobile/small screens

[MiB]

May 25 2015 12:31 Erik Visser e...@erikvisser.net:

 How does it behave at your (smaller) screens/browsers?

Wider displays makes Logomap to fall down, which may not be your focus right 
now. If this isn’t replaced or something I’d place it with absolute 
positioning. I guess it’s not supposed to move anywhere where it’s placed now?

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Re: [css-d] making a site responsive - first step: making it all fluid

[MiB]

21 maj 2015 kl. 11:31 skrev Erik Visser e...@erikvisser.net:

 This is the result so far: http://beta.utrechtsyogacentrum.nl
 
 How does this look on your different systems?
Looks sort of alright on the computer. That the left column overlaps into the 
main column at more narrow widths, like on a modern iPhone is something I 
assume you know already.
 

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Re: [css-d] thoughts on bootstrap and is bootstrap a good approach to setting up a website that fits in different viewport sizes?

[MiB]

may 10 2015 01:57 Al Sparber aspar...@roadrunner.com:

 On 5/9/2015 4:37 PM, Erik Visser wrote:
 
 
 It has been a while since i was working on a regular basis on websites.
 But I'am quite familiar with css and html/php/and more.
 
 If you understand CSS, then all you need to create a responsive site is 
 understand media queries. It is a series of actions/counteractions, at one or 
 more breakpoints.

I respectfully disagree it’s enough to ”understand” CSS or media queries. 
Designing for different sizes is Design first and foremost. You need a process 
to build a great design and in that process you need to address multiple 
concerns, especially concerning how your design ideas translate to different 
sizes. Media Queries is but a tool to put those across.

 
 You also need to research and get your head around the differences between 
 responsive and mobile-friendly sites. It is not a one-to-one relationship.


Very true.
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Re: [css-d] correct way to code in a toggle menu?

[MiB]

4 feb 2015 kl. 01:16 skrev John j...@coffeeonmars.com:

 
 I think I’d want to put that toggle-menu code inside the nav tag, but I can’t 
 see how to make the toggle menu icon display when I’m hiding the nav-main..
 
 Am I looking at this wrong?

If you hide #nav-main only then #toggle-menu should be visible. None of these 
is nested within the other. You may be having HTML errors.

This doesn’t hide #toggle-menu, does it?:

#nav-main }
display:none;
}
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Re: [css-d] Helvetica Light

[MiB]

jan 23 2015 09:13 Jukka K. Korpela jkorp...@cs.tut.fi:

  important enough to justify the added complexity.

The poodle's core, if I may. Sometimes designers or the implementor of a design 
err on failing to make clear what amount of effort can be justified in relation 
to the objectives of the project. 

Simplifying is also at the core of great design work and great web sites. Let’s 
us as designers, or whatever term that applies, keep that in mind.

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Re: [css-d] Changing Visibility on Just One Element

[MiB]

dec 17 2014 22:34 Gates, Jeff gat...@si.edu:

 Jukka and Joergen, I’ve already tried #cart-contents legend { visibility:
 hidden; } and it didn’t work. Actually, that was the first thing I tried.

Use the web developer tools in here: 
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/ and you can be *certain* what 
rules are used on what html elements. Why guess and look for the needle in the 
stack? 
Of course there is no needle. It’s your perception playing games with you. If 
you think you affected the look of an element and it doesn’t change, you didn’t.

While intelligent suggestions like those you can get from the members here 
certainly are useful, also do yourself a service and learn yourself why things 
work and doesn’t work by using tools that guide you with relevant information. 

View it as a learning adventure. Take apart pages, your own and others and 
experiment. It’s a great way to learn. Give yourself half an hour a day at 
least to do that.

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Re: [css-d] Large Screen Compatibility Dilemma

[MiB]

dec 1 2014 02:07 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 Am I thinking from a designer POV, not completely putting forward of all 
 possibilities with CSS ?

First of all, you seem to have sidestepped the reason why a background image 
needs to be high-res. Secondly, when I’ve received a requirement akin to this 
in the past I have solved this with variable quality, so that areas covered 
with other elements are of lesser quality (typically only seen trough 
semi-transparent elements), than areas that are uncovered. That’s not easy to 
do with a fluent design and it’s a lot of work. Better be worth it.

The variable quality is a graphics issue.

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Re: [css-d] Rotating along Z

[MiB]

28 nov 2014 kl. 07:40 skrev Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 I need some help, why this http://jsfiddle.net/yexao7mL/ doesn't rotate 
 along the Z, I know it's flat but instead it's rotating along the Y instead 
 of the Z, which should give the appearance it's shrinking ?

You have the wrong expectations here. This is a great site to explore what 
different transform commands does and get some code out from it too:

http://westciv.com/tools/3Dtransforms/

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Re: [css-d] validating CSS when?

[MiB]

nov 25 2014 17:49 Barney Carroll barney.carr...@gmail.com:

 A task runner like Gulp would be useful for this kind of thing. This guy 
 wrote an excellent introduction (and starter kit) [0] that covers automated 
 SASS  Browserify code compilation and filesystem-browser synchronisation.
 
 I've used Gulp for my last 2 major project for all my development and build 
 needs. When a *.js file changes, it reads over my code and warns me (in the 
 console) of any code style deviations or syntax errors, compiles it, tells 
 the browser to reload it, and runs my unit tests, notifying me of any errors. 
 When a *.scss file changes, it runs compass, concatenates, minifies, writes 
 source maps, then tells the connected browsers to reload that particular 
 resource.
 
 Using a system like this you could easily chuck in a CSS validation report on 
 each change after the SCSS compilation but before the browser-prefixing. 
 There's a plugin that reports back from the W3C service [1] which has been 
 adapted to Gulp [2]. So much more convenient than asking a technical question 
 on CSS-D and waiting for the reply back with the link to 
 http://validator.w3.org/! ;)
 

That’s very interesting as I installed Gulp in a more complex framework the 
other day. I haven’t looked it over yet, as I was mostly interested in the 
server-side things there. I’ll make sure I check out gulp more thoroughly. 
Thanks.

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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 25 2014 07:38 Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com:

 In regards to what you asked here, If they are using these plugins and 
 actually fixing any errors they find, then yes I know (without pretension) 
 their code will be valid. It's the reason these plugins were created. lol

So your inference here is that if you validate CSS (or HTML) code with a tool, 
read the error list produced and proceed to fix those errors and revalidate 
until there are no errors, then the resulting code will be 100% compliant?

If so. I think it’s safe to assume here that inference probably can be verified 
to be true in repeated testing.

However, you’re assuming here that the CMS itself is put together in such a way 
that a dynamic page can never be put together with HTML and CSS that is nothing 
but perfectly fitted together in a balanced union, even as the CSS exists in 
one minified external style sheet and the HTML is built from many parts that 
could come into conflict of one another. 

To get into the detail of what could go wrong in a CMS in this area is beyond 
the scoop of this discussion and this list, but I’d say it’s a quite burdensome 
task to build a CMS where a scenario where there is some mismatch cannot happen 
and even if it could be done with some effort that would likely come with the 
price of a certain amount of inflexibility, that may not be very attractive in 
a CMS. I suppose it could work in a specific purpose-built system. But in a 
general system like Wordpress?

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[css-d] validating CSS when?

[MiB]

As I often feel inclined to use vendor-prefixes in order to meet business 
requirements, my CSS typically don’t validate fully. I always know why and 
using SASS have shielded me somewhat from seeing this issue, as I can postpone 
any prefixes to the final phase. Are you developers handling this differently 
and if so how? 

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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 24 2014 12:26 Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com:

 Hi Guys,
 Pardon me while I interject, but if your using Wordpress, CSS Javascript 
 toolbox (CJT) wont let you get away with bad code. :)
 They even have an advanced theme and plugin editor that will show you if 
 someone's plugin has bad code and give you descriptions of the error.

Yes, that is definitely impressive. I’ll give you that. Unfortunately that will 
not prevent developers from posting laughable and invalid code in Wordpress 
anyway. Wordpress is one of the CMSes where you often can find the worst code 
on the internet.

IMHO structurally unsound code is much worse than a stray surplus coding tag 
that hardly is affecting the site experience as much as the former. It can 
certainly look bad depending on the actual effect. But I digress. I keep 
forgetting to just talk CSS. Sorry about that.
After all CSS is more interesting.




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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 25 2014 00:03 Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com:

 Laughable maybe, invalid NO. 
 Whole reason for my post. 

OK, but I find it a tad pretentious to argue you know the specific code of 
hundreds of thousands of web sites built with Word press. You obviously do not 
know this and neither do I. We just have differing experiences there of actual 
code in the wild.  

What I find more likely is that you’ve found that the features of Wordpress, 
since version something that you describe, helps you know that your 
Wordpress-built sites doesn’t contain validation errors. And that’s a good 
thing of course.



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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 25 2014 00:39 Jon Reece jon.re...@gmail.com:

 ​Apparently, even the W3C have trouble keeping all of their pages passing
 validation ;)

Unless it’s intentional. Maybe they’re just not using Wordpress?
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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 25 2014 07:38 Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com:

 However, if your going to be putting together a CMS for others to use and 
 advertise it as a solid CMS, then I would have to say those Dev's need to be 
 on top of their game. No room for mistakes. At the very least make sure the 
 home page has no flaws.

Yes, I agree with this. But of course it can also be argued that 100% 
validation is seldom the primary objective. If the site works without user 
issues, which in my case means all automatic GUI tests pass and no reports are 
coming in of malfunction, then the site is working. Whether it also validates 
fully may be a moot point and not be considered a flaw” out of a business 
perspective. I’ve been forced to kicking and screaming have to publish sites 
that didn’t fully validate, but if I can help it I won’t allow this myself. I 
just know there’s fine but distinct line between what can constitute both a 
technical and a business flaw.

Because a specific web page may have these outcomes:

1. It may fulfill the business requirements and be technically without (known) 
flaws (Best IMHO) 
2. it may fulfill the business requirements and have technical flaws that does 
not affect the former  (Acceptable)
3. it may fail to fulfill the business requirements and be technically without 
(known) flaws (Unacceptable)
4. it may fail to fulfill the business requirements and have technical flaws 
that affects the former or not (Unacceptable)

The outcomes 2 and 3 illustrates my point, I think.

I try not to worry too much about if my CSS and HTML code validates, but 
usually it does.  
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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

23 nov 2014 kl. 03:14 skrev Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 Percentage values scale the width of the viewport unlike pixel values.
 
 Tom / I assume when you say use max-width you mean;
 
 img {
 max-width: 123px
 }
 
 If so why do that, if you know the image size just give the container the 
 size of the image 

If you must use images, there’s stuff like the classic ”Sliding doors” 
technique. I usually blend images with CSS3 so the middle ground is all CSS and 
the images only enhance the main design.

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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 23 2014 13:40 David Laakso laakso.davi...@gmail.com:

 Just getting Drupal to work at default is enough to tax even Leonardo…

I think that might be why Perch http://grabaperch.com/ was invented.



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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 23 2014 17:58 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 Target / Context = Result So if your max page width is 960 and your container 
 is 650 then: 650/960=.677 (x100) so 67.7%
 
 How do I find my page max width, if the page width can be adjust at any time, 
 right now I don't know what my page width is so to give containers and so 
 forth the correct percentage widths.

Just pick a few numbers and resize upwards slowly from the smallest and watch 
what happens with your design. Pick breaking points where you have notice 
serious layout issues and adjust it going from there. In the beginning you 
probably can just start out with the MQs in any of the available mobile 
boilerplates, also if you don’t use these in full, and take it from there. 

It’s better to just start with just a few MQs and a really simple layout than 
to ponder on what to do. Experiment!

Again, I’d argue that it’s always best to let the content guide the design. 
Acknowledging content gives you limitations on what you can do, which should 
stimulate your design creativity. And mobile design is even more about the 
content itself.
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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

24 nov 2014 kl. 02:26 skrev Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com:

 With firefox, you can set different screen sizes in their responsive layout 
 mode. VERY helpful.

We have mentioned the new Firefox Developer Edition, right? 
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/developer/

IMHO the Firefox tools is all I need. Maybe Espresso once on a while.

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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

On Nov 23, 2014, at 8:21 AM, Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk wrote:

 MiB wrote:
 
 I think that might be why Perch http://grabaperch.com/ was invented.
 
 Assuming that Perch was used to generate its own landing page, it would not 
 be for me :
 
 Line 435, Column 7: Stray end tag div.
 
  /div  footer role=contentinfo”

OMG, that was serious. So you’re implying that your tools PREVENTS you from 
doing mistakes? So what are these tools then?

Maybe a more reasonable question to answer here would be how fast such a user 
error can be fixed in a CMS when it is discovered. That’s much more interesting 
than to pretend your own code is always perfect. Are you certain there is never 
code errors in sites built with popular CMS products out there. Are you certain 
no site you’ve built contain even the slightest error? If so, I must bow to 
your superior coding. 

Care to make this viewpoint interesting? I bet you $1000 I can fix such a user 
error in Perch, which I don’t use, significantly faster than you can in Drupal. 
I can find a third party, that you will trust, that can set up such at test 
with timers. Are you a man or a mice?



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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 24 2014 07:00 MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com:

  Are you a man or a mice?

I most certainly meant to ask ”Are you a man or a mouse”?
My apologies for that grammatical error. You see how easy we mere mortals can 
make an error like that? 
A code god like you, Philip, surely would have a field day with me. C’mon now.
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Re: [css-d] Don't miss a space

[MiB]

nov 24 2014 07:25 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 This version of the Developer Tools seems ten times more better then the 
 version I have in 33.1 (33.1.1) just released, literally at the time of me 
 writing this message/email.

I also like Chrome tools and the Developer Tools add-on for both Chrome and 
Firefox, but this new one is my new default developer browser.

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 17 2014 05:45 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 When you have a comp to work from you can tell the client, look this is the 
 comp you signed off on, hopefully both you and him are in agreement,

It’s just that it’s very seldom you are in actual mutual agreement because a 
modern web site will not look like the comp. It’s more fruitful to be in a 
agreement of functionality and use case fulfillment. It’s not important that 
the client is satisfied per se, it's the customers of the client that should be 
the focus. If I notice early on the client don’t get this I turn down the 
client. I’m not in the business to sweet talk my clients to satisfy their egos. 
It’s their results that counts and I try to make that clear from the beginning.

In addition working from a comp is very much slower than hand sketches and fast 
coding.

 If you are not a designer then designing in the browser may be more beneficial
If you are a designer working in the browser is more beneficial as well, as 
this practice doesn’t exclude design in any way. Of course, a skillful designer 
that prefers comps may still do a great job. Any developer/Designer can choose 
their tools as they want. But no-one should do it because it’s convenient, but 
because it’s the right fit for them.

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 16 2014 03:36 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

  I would hate to think what kind of mess or sameness you could develop 
 without something to work from. It may be a validated, responsive site but it 
 will be bland, similar to having thirty Starbucks in a large radius. 

That risk is not dependent on the tools but on the designer. Making a photoshop 
comp does not communicate the proper expectations to the client. An interactive 
prototype and opening up your design work to daily scrutiny and as a basis for 
communication makes it possible for the client to have input when they want. 
When they sign off on a design direction they can already experience it in the 
early stages and as it is developed. 
I make sure in my agreements to define clearly what ”finished” means. The 
client can always change their mind and if they do I amend my offer for the 
extra work involved, if any. 

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 13 2014 15:06 Tedd Sperling tedd.sperl...@gmail.com:

 
 This is not all, but it's a good start:
 
 http://mydevice.io/devices/


Not to forget most devices also have the height/width flipped in addition when 
holding it on the side.
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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

13 nov 2014 kl. 16:23 skrev Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 and having to do a complete re-write tomorrow ?

and every three months.

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 13 2014 16:39 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 A sheet/styles for base styles. No MQ.
 
 A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 30em to make any
 necessary tweaks to the content.
 
 A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 37em to make any
 necessary tweaks to the content.
 
 A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 48em to make any
 necessary tweaks to the content.
 
 A sheet/styles that kicks in with an MQ of min-width: 60em to make any
 necessary tweaks to the content.
 
 Add or remove as content dictates... etc..
 
 This approach will allow you to code for basically any device without
 worrying about slight differences in screen sizes. Trying to code for
 each one will not be possible.

I think it was when I started with this approach that I gave up photoshop comps 
and started designing directly in the browser. I stil do graphics in Photoshop, 
but just elements and sprites. 

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Re: [css-d] Screens overload

[MiB]

nov 12 2014 19:43 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 I have a general question, how many screens are there ?

There’re more different types that you even practically can handle 
individually. That’s why media queries have size points and why pixel-perfect 
design on the web is dead. 

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Re: [css-d] 3 elements side by side

[MiB]

nov 11 2014 00:09 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 
 What's your favorite, most reliable way to get 3 elements (block or
 inline-block) side by side (no gap between) to span the full width of
 their parent? And hopefully not leave a gap at all…

If I have a fixed height of the subelements my fav is to position them 
absolutely and float the container acting as a positioning context. I don’t 
like CSS-Tables very much because you lose most of the fine control. But they 
have their place of course. Sometimes accepting you can’t control everything is 
very liberating a designer.


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Re: [css-d] Font Size for fluid responsive on touch devices ?

[MiB]

nov 9 2014 21:35 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 When using font sizes for mobile development, is there a limit to the 
 smallest size you can go before the responsiveness by the user becomes a 
 struggle then a pleasure to navigate ?

You don’t consult user groups in your projects, Crest? They’d know.

I usually use about 10 very different people in all ages and positions.

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Re: [css-d] Font Size for fluid responsive on touch devices ?

[MiB]

nov 10 2014 04:33 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 You don’t consult user groups in your projects, Crest? They’d know. 
 
 What ?

A user group is a stratified group of people that are giving you feedback on 
your design. Legibility is one of the basic questions I always ask about. Users 
normally know what they prefer. Users know and if not their behavior will still 
make it clear.

I don’t pay these people, at least I haven’t needed to do that so far. They do 
it for different reasons, like they’re interested in the company I develop for 
(The client), the product behind it or are principal users of the coming or 
existing web site, like employees or in another business relationship with the 
client. At minimum they devote maybe 20-60 minutes a weekly or biweekly, 
depending on interest.

It took me along time to get clients onboard with this. It has the befit to 
make the clients take one step back in their sometimes heavy-handed involvement 
in the design as they learn the web site is not for them, but for the users. 

Anyway, your question in itself was actually off topic, so we better stop 
there. (Legibility in this case is a design issue and not directly dependent on 
CSS).

While not related to your question the CSS property optimizeLegibility is of 
course on topic. : 
http://aestheticallyloyal.com/public/optimize-legibility/
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Re: [css-d] Font Size for fluid responsive on touch devices ?

[MiB]

nov 10 2014 05:04 Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net:

 ATM I cannot fathom the right words to share in public describing any
 recommendation of use of an 8px font size. It's hard enough to find sharable
 words for recommending px for font sizing in any context. By definition, px
 font sizes disregard whatever size users find optimal, and that, besides
 being rude, is inconsistent with my understanding of the reasons for and
 nature of responsive design.

Do px even work in a meaningful way on mobile displays? While I do think about 
px regarding base font size as a variation, it stops there. The base font size 
is not 16 px, it’s ”x” px as it’s unknown. Therefore IMHO any design decisions 
based on font size have to be expressed in relative terms. The base size is 
what it is and not what we, as designers, hope.


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Re: [css-d] Responsive Images

[MiB]

nov 7 2014 23:32 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 which is faster IIS or PHP ?

IIS is a server, PHP is a language that can run on servers. You're trying to 
compare apples to baskets. 

I haven’t looked at the Watermark code, but likely this is something in 
ASP.NET? If so that of course runs in IIS and possibly also on Apache with 
mod_mono http://www.mono-project.com/docs/web/mod_mono/. The latter is probably 
not something for you and IIS is likely to be the best for ASP.NET.

Nevertheless, switching servers because of one function that is also available 
in other packages NOT on ASP.NET is a tad strange. What are you going to do 
when you find some new hot code that can’t run well on IIS?

I’m not saying not to choose IIS, but build a solid base for choosing 
technology that you can stick with for years to come.

Personally I don’t care for either PHP or ASP.NET.

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Re: [css-d] Responsive Images

[MiB]

nov 7 2014 00:38 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 Why do you recommend building mobile first ?

The main reason as I see it, is that mobile first methodology forces you to 
take a hard look at your content and prioritize it after what the users 
actually need to see first, second and so on. All fluff has to go for mobile. 
And if it’s fluff why should it stay there for browsers? 

When you do this, you typically will realize that content, its structure and 
presentation is a design problem. Depending on your clients it may also involve 
teaching your them about their content.

It baffles me how little some commercial operations actually know about what 
content their users actually are looking for and when they need it.

Of course, content structure is very much tightly connected to markup, which I 
find many designers take far too lightly as it influences presentation, where 
CSS comes in. So far I’ve broken my wows when doing mobile first by using 
javascript solutions affecting layout and structure. But I have no users on 
mobile that have javascript inactivated (about 5% on desktop).

Anyway, from a CSS design standpoint I too find it more fruitful to do a good 
mobile design and iteratively build on that when targeting larger displays.

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Re: [css-d] Responsive Images

[MiB]

nov 7 2014 14:28 MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com:

 When you do this, you typically will realize that content, its structure and 
 presentation is a design problem. Depending on your clients it may also 
 involve teaching your them about their content.

Talking about fluff, that ”your” wasn’t supposed to be there. Should be 
Depending on your clients it may also involve teaching them about their 
content.”

I must stop to post before coffee.
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Re: [css-d] Wild Design or Restrict myself ?

[MiB]

2 nov 2014 kl. 01:59 skrev Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 I have one concern when designing a responsive site, should I, as primarily a 
 designer but unlike many designers not restricted to design and know how to 
 code, be wild with my design, or is there restrictions I should set on myself 
 when designing ?

Well, business requirements sets restrictions and technical limitations are 
only second as I see it. Otherwise, do the best design that you feel is what 
the project need. It’s better to go wild and take it back a little than the 
opposite, I think. 

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 09:12 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 MiB wrote:
 
 That’s not what I said. Try again.
 
 You said you can translate from px sizing to percentages.
 I pointed out that, in general, you cannot.  I am still waiting
 for you to demonstrate how you can.

And I won’t since what I referred to is the ABC of responsive web development. 
Go read up. I’ll answer specific questions, not your erroneous assumptions.

What were we talking about again? Ahhh, grids. Do grids need to be written in 
pixel sizes ot be grids? If you get advice on grids expressed in pixels and you 
work with percentages, what is it you need to do in order to make that advice 
or knowledge useful to you? H.

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 10:49 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 MiB wrote:
 
 you can translate from px sizing to percentages
 I’ll answer specific questions, not your erroneous assumptions.
 
 Fine, here's a specific question :  How would you translate from 16px to a 
 percentage” ?

Give the context. Percentages refers to the context, do they not?

I’ll fill that in, but need to restart post-installation.

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 10:49 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 MiB wrote:
 
 you can translate from px sizing to percentages
 I’ll answer specific questions, not your erroneous assumptions.
 
 Fine, here's a specific question :  How would you translate from 16px to a 
 percentage” ?

Unfortunately I must do work now, but the (classic) basic context-aware formula 
is target ÷ context = result. You can read the original article from Ethan 
Marcotte here Fluid Grids” http://alistapart.com/article/FLUIDGRIDS 
It will explain it all I think. 

Grids are not hocus locus. They’re simple (hopefully) and surprisingly flexible 
and useful tools.
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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 11:08 MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com:

 Grids are not hocus locus.

Grids are not hocus pocus either. OS X’s canning ability to invisibly 
(erroneously) correct me is very irritating. Probably solveable, but no time. :P



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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 01:14 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 You can use pixels instead of percentages for a fluid layout ?

You can use pixels for the parts of the grid you want to be inflexible, like 
gutters. This will break relative relationships so must be handled with care. 

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 11:17 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 But when your context is 100% and your target is 16px (or any other number of 
 px), what then ?

I refuse to answer any more questions like this one form you until you have 
read the article I linked to. What part of ”will explain it all” did you not 
like?

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 11:25 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 
 MiB wrote:
 
 What part of ”will explain it all” did you not like?
 
 The part where you consistently avoid my question.


So you admit being a troll? You’re not here to learn and share knowledge, like 
the a majority of the other members? 

I answered it, but not in the way you would have preferred. I refuse to believe 
you’re that daft you can’t comprehend that simple formula. Its simpleness does 
not limit its usefulness. I also refuse to believe you can’t read an article. 
Unless you really don’t want to know.

I’m not your research department. Your questions are based on you trying to 
create an unrealistic example totally uninteresting for real world work, as if 
you don’t know the first thing about CSS design and development. Which I must 
assume you know something about. You clearly have an hidden agenda and want to 
waste my time and the readers of this email discussion list.

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 12:20 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 On the contrary, I want to challenge your assertion that you can translate 
 from px sizing to percentages for all but the most trivial of cases.  If 
 /everything/ was originally expressed in pixels, then of course you can 
 translate from px sizing to percentages (a child of five would know how to do 
 that), but if some elements of the original design were expressed in less 
 tangible units (percent, ems, rems, etc), then it should be patently obvious 
 to you that you can NOT translate from px sizing to percentages.

 Your challenge is futile. An example was given about grids expressed in 
pixels. GJim said that percentages were used. That is the context.

When I said you can translate from px sizing to percentages” grids is the 
context for that claim (Specifically the example used). You’re trying the silly 
exercise to take that sentence out of that context, to imply I meant it in 
general terms. A child could understand that was not the case.

Consider context, not only when translating pixel-expressed designs, but also 
when reading this list.

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 12:32 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 I have to agree with Philip here. If you don't know context you can use the 
 formula you referenced. That, I believe, is his point. Viewport width is not 
 something you will know. 

Agree on the obvious, you mean? In the given example, the context was known. It 
was 978px total width. If you assume those 978px are 100% of the viewport 
width, the size of which is really irrelevant as you don’t know the viewport 
size ever without scripting, then percentages for element widths including 
gutters are based on those 100% of actual x px width. If it’s 978 px, the 
element width will be based on that and if it’s 500px or 1200px it will be base 
on those numbers.

That there are ways of setting limits on when you express element widths in 
percentages, should not come as a surprise. There exists media queries, which 
means you could have a minimum width and a maximum width and shift from gutters 
expressed in pixels to gutters expressed in percentages or ems (I prefer the 
latter). This is how I usually do it and I assume everybody does something 
similar.  
 
 If, for example, you know your content will be a max-width of 960px, then you 
 can work off of that in the formula.
Which was the case, as there was an example. Why pretend there wasn’t a proper 
example that was framing what was being said?
http://www.webdesignerwall.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/978-grid.gif

 
 Also, I'd recommend not mixing units as you could be creating a small 
 annoying mess. Gutters can be small percentages as well, figured out with 
 that same formula.

Generally, that’s good advice, but it really depends on the design requirements.
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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 12:56 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 Make context explicit as a part of your assertions, don't rely on others 
 inferring it. Study the pragmatics of discourse.

Yes Philip, I’ll assume you don’t read all relevant posts in the thread you’re 
posting in, in the future.

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 13:02 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 Even given that, mixing units is going to cause issues, especially for those 
 just learning. I recommend using percentage for all, as in David L's example. 

That’s a good start, but percentage values does have to be controlled to not 
yield silly results in more extreme cases. I’ve used Media Queries and 
min-width/max-width with acceptable results. I think ems work better for 
gutters, even as they do add some unpredictability. That can be handled. 

I think the best way to learn is to experiment and exercise control over your 
CSS. If you use a framework, learn it properly. 

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 20 2014 12:57 MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com:

 If it’s 978 px, the element width will be based on that and if it’s 500px or 
 1200px it will be base on those numbers.

I should have used plural ”widths” here, as the width property is of course 
only a part of the width an element will take up.

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 19 2014 17:40 GJim jarne...@wyomerc.com:

 I should have mentioned that I don't use px for column layouts - instead, I 
 use
 percentages.

That’s irrelevant as you can translate from px sizing to percentages. You can 
keep gutters in px or ems, depending on content and within what media query 
they exist.

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Re: [css-d] Grid System

[MiB]

okt 19 2014 23:38 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 MiB wrote:
 
 That’s irrelevant as you can translate from px sizing to percentages.
 
 How ?  How can you know (for example) what percentage of a full-width element 
 16px represents ?  Since you have no way of knowing the width of the browser 
 window in pure CSS, you also have no way of knowing what percentage of that 
 width an arbitrary number of px represent.

That’s not what I said. Try again.

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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

okt 9 2014 08:03 Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com:

 Just found this too.
 
 http://thisisdallas.github.io/Simple-Grid/
 
 Its a grid. not a framework. no bloat.
 Might be exactly what you need. :)

Well, it got my attention so must be good then! I haven’t got the time to 
investigate it right now, but it seems like a very down to earth illustration 
of what grids are and how they can be a part of your own framework.  

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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

okt 8 2014 03:24 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 Would anyone be willing to create a video on when they are using a grid frame 
 work how they begin, up to atleast half way of the development process ?

You tried youtube? I found a few with using grid framework” (sans citation): 

http://goo.gl/wkFXkU

Watching one of them I remembered why I don’t like most frameworks I’ve 
encountered myself. It’s probably a good idea to find one you like and learn to 
work use within your methodology.


My requirements would be

- Fluid and mobile responsive support out of the box
- Any HTML5 element can have any class
- descendant selector support
- Module based


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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

okt 8 2014 11:59 MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com:

 find one you like and learn to work use within your methodology.

well, find one you like and learn how to use it within your methodology.

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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

7 okt 2014 kl. 05:50 skrev Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 I want to know, is this the method you use grids or is my starting point 
 completely off the rails ?

That really depends on your objective. 

I don't use a grid framework but use my own basic layouts, that I evolve 
further in every project, and I do variations on these. More often than not I 
make an initial specific basic grid for just holding my content and make sure 
that works and displays as expected in my development platforms (Firefox, 
Chrome on Android as well as Opera or Safari on IOS), then I build content-out. 
I always start with the content, believing this is what my design should 
enhance. Working content-out is the key.

This content phase is a point where I've gotten into trouble with clients, 
because they seldom deliver quality content at the start. So I learnt to get 
that requirement on them in the signed agreements that also details what 
”finished” means allowing for further paid refinements outside of this. I’m not 
starting development work without one. 
Nevertheless, content is what it’s all about. Content really is a design 
problem, so usually I spend time with customers at this stage to develop their 
content too. Which I charge for naturally.
We usually involves use cases, personas and user stories during the development 
process and many other methods too depending on the project.

Then I set the grid for mobile, add media queries so also computers get a basic 
design. Then I build all pages and functions and gradually work on the design 
iteratively, with real content in the test site and try different designs. At 
some point I make design developments in all media queries, slowly bringing 
them together.

I put layouts, typography (including fonts), color in different CSS files (or 
SCSS)  at this stage, so that I can switch at any stage. Later, closer to 
delivery, I bring them together and minify them all in one file. 

I use the built-in development tools in Firefox mainly to do the design as well 
as a the text editor of choice. I make the graphics I need in Fireworks and/or 
Photoshop. I’ve tried to find a replacement for these, but failed so far. 

This all means I design in the browser. I make quick sketches on paper to 
discuss with clients, but these days never in Photoshop. I have an open design 
process, making the site available for the client as I work, so they can follow 
the design development. 

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Re: [css-d] links not working smartphone - tablet

[MiB]

7 okt 2014 kl. 10:16 skrev Barney Carroll barney.carr...@gmail.com:

 The specifics in Bootstrap's CSS are legacy IE hacks
 and vendor-prefixed CSS3.

Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Those are irrelevant errors that 
you can ignore as you know you’re using vendor-prefixes and IE hacks. That’s 
not what I referred to when I said it’s a good idea to validate your code. Any 
web designer worth his/her salt knows what errors to ignore.
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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

7 okt 2014 kl. 16:18 skrev Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 MiB your message seems to go into your development process rather then on 
 grids and columns and understanding them !

It does. My apologies. 

It should be clear though my grids are always different when the content is 
different. To me a grid” is chosen specifically based on the actual content. 

In short my grids are just simple width divisions and height divisions based on 
font size and readability decisions. Your original question concerned grid 
frameworks didn’t it? I tried to explain that instead of a grid framework I use 
a process in how I build my grid-based designs. This could of course involve a 
grid framework as these are normally flexible on what grid they can build. I 
don’t use them.

Maybe what you want to know is more about how to apply a specific grid in a 
specific framework?
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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

okt 6 2014 07:18 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 know what is possible

Side-note: It’s useful to know what’s possible, but we all still have to do one 
page design at a time to really make it possible. Anything’s possible more or 
less. The real questions are commonly more like what’s needed?, what answers 
the objectives set up? and what looks irresistable when it’s on the web in 
any (target) browser on any (target) device? and similar. 
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Re: [css-d] links not working smartphone - tablet

[MiB]

okt 6 2014 20:20 Barney Carroll barney.carr...@gmail.com:

 So 'validate your markup', as much as it may be good advice, wouldn't have
 caught this particular fish. In fact, I might assert that 'validate your
 markup' hasn't taught us anything with regards to this particular problem.
 The reason people come to this list is usually to seek human insight and
 communal effort on given problems, which code parsers are unable to give.
 Conversely, actually reading about Bob's problem, visiting the URL and
 trying to replicate the behaviour he described proved to be a really good
 first step to solving the problem.

Good catch of a javascript error on a css list.

However, none of what you mention concern even one reasonable reason not to 
validate your HTML and CSS code. For nothing else the chances increases to get 
that help you think you need. Even it wasn’t a css or HTML issue this time, too 
many times it is the invalid code or stupid little mistakes. And even if it 
isn’t, there are other issues because of it.

Not too seldom I encounter company web sites that contain bugs with invalid 
code so serious that it’s embarrassing to point out the mistakes that took me 2 
minutes at worst in a validator to find, 2 more minutes to correct. Obviously I 
find the developers of those web sites unprofessional. 

Invalid code? It’s not the end goal, but a nice and useful stop on the path I 
choose to take. so, Nah!



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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

3 okt 2014 kl. 02:31 skrev Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 you cut up your graphics
You don’t. You do sprites or use CSs.


 and now how do you translate the design from the PSD to your grid,
You don’t translate. You use PS for creating some graphics and perhaps treating 
photos. You design in the browser. Or in yuor head.

 o you get an exact representation of your site whether it's a responsive site 
 or not 
You don’t an exact representation” of something. You build a web site.

Let go of the 90’s and even the 00’s. It’s over.

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Re: [css-d] Grid Columns and Frustrations

[MiB]

okt 4 2014 14:04 patrick patr...@iampms.com:

 You will really benefit by just trying it. Start (relatively) easily with a 
 popular framework/grid and try to build one page of your design -- the 
 simplest component (say the mobile version of your simplest page). Developing 
 mobile first can make it easier, since it's easier to add than it is to 
 remove (this is totally over-simplified, but you get the idea).

You of course don’t need a (grid) framework to use grids in your design. They 
can be both a help and an obstacle, depending on objectives and experience with 
them. I’d argue it’s much much better to learn CSS design properly before 
taking up a front end framework (except for javascript). CSS isn’t rocket 
science. It may take a dedicated year to actually learn it properly, but you'll 
get it back.

There’s a lot of fluff material out there out of touch with best practices, so 
finding the good teachers and materials is time well spent. Which of course is 
hard when you don’t know what you’re doing. Unfortunately, typically most 
people that don’t know what they’re doing wouldn’t know this. It’s sign of 
insight to realize you don’t. And then get to work.

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Re: [css-d] First-Child

[MiB]

sep 26 2014 23:33 Rick Gordon li...@rickgordon.com:

 A useful additional angle on this is that if include some JavaScript to add a 
 class to body, for example, a class called owner when you are logged in, 
 then you can have all that debugging stuff only seen by yourself. (WordPress 
 sites, or other sites where you can be logged in, lend themselves to that 
 sort of functionality.)
 
 body.owner :first-child { outline: 1px dotted lime; }

At least in Firefox, the Web Developer add-on to Firefox allows for outlining 
custom elements. Using :first-child or any other selector gives you 
temporarily an outline of the elements you want to identify. These can also be 
combined with other built-in element outlines.

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Re: [css-d] can't see why text is going outside box -- OFFTOPIC

[MiB]

sep 26 2014 17:14 Alex M a...@alexm.co:

 Hey yeah, just realised it was a plugin done by a shortcode.
 
 Wordpress wraps shortcode outputs with pre so you might need to use a 
 str_replace or preg_replace to remove it.

And people wonder why I refuse to do wordpress. I never have problems like 
that, that’s why.

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Re: [css-d] First-Child

[MiB]

sep 26 2014 15:36 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 Hi, I've been understanding the pseudo-class elements, I like their 
 functionality. I have a question, here is an code example 
 http://jsfiddle.net/bpL490pn/embedded/result/, which is the first-child ?
 
 And are there any tools that aid in helping you know what is the first child, 
 decedent children for FireFox or Chrome, as a helper tool in the beginning ?

use p:first-child” as a selector and that will be obvious.

Children elements have parents. The source order decides what is first. At 
least I’ve never encountered anything different from that.



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Re: [css-d] First-Child

[MiB]

sep 26 2014 15:36 Crest Christopher crestchristop...@gmail.com:

 And are there any tools that aid in helping you know what is the first child, 
 decedent children for FireFox or Chrome, as a helper tool in the beginning ?

I don’t know any that can do that specifically, but I’d imagine a javascript 
plugin could yield info like that. But if you read the source code then that 
should be all you need. There are plugins that prettify source code making it 
easier to analyze fast. 

If you’re not running the Web Developer Extension both in Chrome and Firefox ( 
Opera) you should try it. It can be very helpful. The built-in developer tools 
are very very good in Firefox IMHO. Less so in Chrome I think.

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Re: [css-d] rem units and %

[MiB]

sep 18 2014 22:47 Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net:

 The natural talent of every modern web browser to adapt content to the user's
 environment is usurped by CSS attempting to make every page look like
 Photoshopped image, and at an arbitrary size bearing no predictable
 relationship to the physical characteristics of the environment opened
 within.


No! I won’t have that. It’s a certain breed of designers doing that, not CSS.

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Re: [css-d] a img tag being overwritten?

[MiB]

sep 11 2014 05:19 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 Reading this over again, a href=img src=myimg.jpg //a wouldn't
 have any text-decoration anyway.


If you write compliant code it would, at least in a non webkit browser like 
Firefox:

a href=#img src=myimg.jpg alt=”My Image /a 



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Re: [css-d] a img tag being overwritten?

[MiB]

sep 11 2014 13:26 Philippe Wittenbergh e...@l-c-n.com:

 
 Le 11 sept. 2014 à 18:56, MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com a écrit :
 
 sep 11 2014 05:19 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:
 
 Reading this over again, a href=img src=myimg.jpg //a wouldn't
 have any text-decoration anyway.
 
 
 If you write compliant code it would, at least in a non webkit browser like 
 Firefox:
 
 a href=#img src=myimg.jpg alt=”My Image /a 
 
 Uh ? Does Firefox apply a text-decoration in that case ? That would 
 non-compliant (I thought they had that fixed aeons ago, and Firefox doesn't 
 show any text-decoration over here). The situation with border-bottom is of 
 course different.
 
 CSS 2.1
 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/text.html#decoration
 
 CSS3 Text-decoration module
 http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text-decor/#line-decoration
 
 Quote ( present in both docs):
 Atomic inlines, such as images, are not decorated.
 
 Assuming a[href] { text-decoration: underline; } (which is the default…)
 
 Or do I miss something?
 
 

Isn’t it obvious that alt text will be shown when there image isn’t? AFICT it’s 
the webkit browser that has a bug not displaying it. It’s the bug system of 
Chrome’s strain.
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Re: [css-d] a img tag being overwritten?

[MiB]

sep 11 2014 13:33 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 I guess you would if the images wasn't found. Alt text would get decorated? 
 Can't check right now.

That is what is happening and is on spec as far as I know.

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Re: [css-d] CSS code - is this right?

[MiB]

aug 14 2014 23:19 John D xfs...@hotmail.com:

 Not sure I understand your post but span can be given a class and the code is 
 attributing to that class.  Is this what your view is about Joomla?

If you have a span element, that is a type of element already in the HTML 
language, then there’s no need to specify that one more time. Class names 
should describe the actual role of the element you’re targeting.

[class*=”whatever-best-describes-role].pull-right,
.row-fluid [class*=span].pull-right {
float: right;
}  

Using reasonably semantical HTML is as much design as is using well-expressed 
stylesheets. If your HTML is suffering so will your stylesheets.

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Re: [css-d] CSS code - is this right?

[MiB]

14 aug 2014 kl. 18:21 skrev Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 [class*=span”]

I guess those semantics (using elements as class names) sums up my view of 
Joomla very well. 

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Re: [css-d] Grids: what's all the fuss ?

[MiB]

11 aug 2014 kl. 17:45 skrev Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:

 Now it's become a 'Grid System' that I should have. 

Well, a grid framework is obviously a grid system. Your own concocted grid 
approach is potentially hopefully also a a grid system of sorts. I thought that 
was evident. My apologies. 

Worry? I’m not following there. I just acknowledge good design ideas.


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Re: [css-d] Grids: what's all the fuss ?

[MiB]

11 aug 2014 kl. 10:02 skrev Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:

 what I'd do with an eight or twelve column design (or why I'd need it, 
 really).

One word: Flexibility with contained order. 

The best design book for grids IMHO is Ordering Disorder: Grid Principles for 
Web Design” by Khoi Vinh (2010 Voices That Matter). It’s totally wonderful and 
in my opinion contains timeless principles. Better than any article on the 
subject.

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Re: [css-d] Grids: what's all the fuss ?

[MiB]

aug 11 2014 11:04 Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:


 is it just the current buzz-word ?


I don’t think so, no. To me that’s like saying ”design is a buzz word. Grids 
are everywhere in any design profession. Look att architecture: Grids, Cars: 
Grids, Papers: Grids. Grids are pretty much ubiquitous. 
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Re: [css-d] Grids: what's all the fuss ?

[MiB]

11 aug 2014 kl. 12:25 skrev Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:

 One word: Flexibility with contained order.
 But I think I can already do that with floated divs, which are even more 
 flexible since they
 can be any % of the container width (must add to 100%, of course). 'Contained 
 order' suggests a
 bit more, but only that things should line up vertically and not be all over 
 the place ? (with which I'd agree).

Line up to the established grid of the designers choice, that’s all. The actual 
elements and CSS used are completely irrelevant here as long as you achieve the 
objective. 
 
 So I'd have (say) a 60% div and a 40% div (58.33% and 41.67% if I must be in 
 twelfths). I can't see why I need an 8.33% div. In short, I'm still missing 
 the point.

I’d expect that would know of that you can use content column width divisions 
for some content and that further down (vertically) you can choose others that 
still do adhere to the same basic grid. 

Grids are not the same as grid frameworks. It sounds to me you mixing these 
concepts up. You don’t need a framework in order to use grids. All you need is 
the ability to choose and use grids as a concept and a tool. That’s all you 
need.  

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Re: [css-d] Grids: what's all the fuss ?

[MiB]

Some benefits according to Khoo Vinh: 

• Grids add order, continuity, and harmony to the presentation of 
information on frequently high-density web pages.

• Grids help users predict where to find information from page to page 
or from behavioral state to behavioral state, which aids in the communication 
of that information.

• Grids make it easier to add new content to a website in a manner 
consistent with the overall vision of the original website.

• Grids facilitate collaboration on the design of a single website 
without compromising the overall vision of that website.”


It’s the last two that may give you an insight in why choosing a specific grid 
could be very fruitful. 


(Page 20 of ”Ordering Disorder, Grid Principles for Web Design” (Khoo Vinh 2010)




11 aug 2014 kl. 13:15 skrev Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:

 On 11/08/2014 11:12, MiB wrote:
 aug 11 2014 11:04 Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:
 is it just the current buzz-word ?
 
 I don’t think so, no. To me that’s like saying ”design is a buzz word. 
 Grids are everywhere
 in any design profession. Look att architecture: Grids, Cars: Grids, Papers: 
 Grids. Grids are
 pretty much ubiquitous.
 Your message crossed with a reply I'd just sent to your previous one.
 
 From the design point of view OF COURSE we have a grid.
 
 I'm not for one moment opposed to laying out web pages tidily. As I said 
 before I've effectively used 'grids' for years without calling them such, in 
 two three and four column layouts. I'm not suddenly proposing to make untidy 
 web sites (I hope).
 
 I AM struggling with what I see in tutorials, all that prepared CSS for 
 narrow columns (1/8, 1/12 and other fractions) that I can't see being of more 
 than very occasional use except in multiples, which comes back to the 60/40 
 (70/30 or whatever) columns of a typical two column layout etc. Particularly 
 confusing are the rows with eight or twelve postage stamp sized boxes of no 
 practical use at all.
 
 Is it all just to make the maths easier ?  Grid based CSS seems to me to boil 
 down to:
 
 Making a load of 'column' class names for any multiple of one twelfth that I 
 might reasonably want to use and putting them into 'rows' in various 
 combinations each totalling 1.
 
 If it's significantly more than that I am seriously missing the entire point, 
 and need help.
 
 Regards,
 
 Tim
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [css-d] Grids: what's all the fuss ?

[MiB]

And some basic principles to keep in mind as suggested by Vinh:

A grid should focus on problem solving first and aesthetics second.
A grid is a component of the user experience
The simpler the grid, the more effective it is.
…mathematic precision is a key element of good grid design, but mathematical 
usefulness is just as important.”

(Page 44 of ”Ordering Disorder, Grid Principles for Web Design” (Khoo Vinh, 
2010))


These above are about using grids as a tool for solving design problems.


And also
the notion of a column seems straightforward enough, but on a page based on an 
eight-column grid, a designer might create a layout with only two columns of 
text”

(page 58, same book)

So, just because you have 12 columns, you may still choose to combine these 
together for different content and different vertical regions of the page and 
use different divisions and combinations for these regions. But all of them 
being placed on the same grid and therefore maintaining an invisible order and 
coherency to all content. 

You also have the connection between font sizes and vertical rhythm that may 
very well influence the actual chosen grid. 



11 aug 2014 kl. 13:27 skrev MiB digital.disc...@gmail.com:

 Some benefits according to Khoo Vinh: 
 
   • Grids add order, continuity, and harmony to the presentation of 
 information on frequently high-density web pages.
 
   • Grids help users predict where to find information from page to page 
 or from behavioral state to behavioral state, which aids in the communication 
 of that information.
 
   • Grids make it easier to add new content to a website in a manner 
 consistent with the overall vision of the original website.
 
   • Grids facilitate collaboration on the design of a single website 
 without compromising the overall vision of that website.”
 
 
 It’s the last two that may give you an insight in why choosing a specific 
 grid could be very fruitful. 
 
 
 (Page 20 of ”Ordering Disorder, Grid Principles for Web Design” (Khoo Vinh 
 2010)
 
 
 
 
 11 aug 2014 kl. 13:15 skrev Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:
 
 On 11/08/2014 11:12, MiB wrote:
 aug 11 2014 11:04 Tim Dawson t...@ramasaig.com:
 is it just the current buzz-word ?
 
 I don’t think so, no. To me that’s like saying ”design is a buzz word. 
 Grids are everywhere
 in any design profession. Look att architecture: Grids, Cars: Grids, 
 Papers: Grids. Grids are
 pretty much ubiquitous.
 Your message crossed with a reply I'd just sent to your previous one.
 
 From the design point of view OF COURSE we have a grid.
 
 I'm not for one moment opposed to laying out web pages tidily. As I said 
 before I've effectively used 'grids' for years without calling them such, in 
 two three and four column layouts. I'm not suddenly proposing to make untidy 
 web sites (I hope).
 
 I AM struggling with what I see in tutorials, all that prepared CSS for 
 narrow columns (1/8, 1/12 and other fractions) that I can't see being of 
 more than very occasional use except in multiples, which comes back to the 
 60/40 (70/30 or whatever) columns of a typical two column layout etc. 
 Particularly confusing are the rows with eight or twelve postage stamp sized 
 boxes of no practical use at all.
 
 Is it all just to make the maths easier ?  Grid based CSS seems to me to 
 boil down to:
 
 Making a load of 'column' class names for any multiple of one twelfth that 
 I might reasonably want to use and putting them into 'rows' in various 
 combinations each totalling 1.
 
 If it's significantly more than that I am seriously missing the entire 
 point, and need help.
 
 Regards,
 
 Tim
 
 
 
 
 
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 -- 
 Tim Dawson
 Maolbhuidhe
 Fionnphort
 Isle of Mull  PA66 6BP
 
 01681 700718
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Re: [css-d] Grids: what's all the fuss ?

[MiB]

aug 11 2014 14:32 Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com:

 I'm more or less in the same boat as you. Though, designers I work
 with use a grid, but I see a page differently and can recreate it in
 html with out the need of a million classes for columns.

Again, this is a feature of (some) Grid Frameworks and not of Grids per se. 

AS I already have said Grid Frameworks use grids in specific grid systems, but 
they are not the same as grids.

Columns are not the same as grids either, even though you typically peruse 
columns when you use grids as a tool for solving problems. That you use columns 
doesn’t mean you are using grids as effectively as you would if you had your 
own grid system present in your design work.

Of course, in some work of some design artists there will be unintended 
consistent invisible grids to be found, but that would be the exception I think.



 

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Re: [css-d] Web fonts

[MiB]

jul 31 2014 04:20 Stuart King zinlo...@gmail.com claimed:

  I an using Century Gothic

No, you’re using 'Century Gothic W01’. Is that the actual name of the font 
you’re referencing?

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Re: [css-d] why are ems rendering large?

[MiB]

jul 26 2014 01:24 Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.com:

 I usually go px on the body and % everywhere else.

Why does px on body seems like a good idea for users?
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Re: [css-d] @Font-Face Not Working in IE/FF, What Are Best Practices?

[MiB]

jun 13 2014 Elli Vizcaino elli...@yahoo.com:

 Also, while on the topic wanted to know what are some best practices, 
 especially for fall back fonts. I am using the standard: Arial, 
 Helvetica, sans-serif but these fonts don't necessarily have the same 
 proportions as my chosen web fonts, so they would throw the look and feel off 
 of the design if a fallback font would indeed need to be used. 


Research ”font stacks”, try out a few and take it from there to build your own.

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Re: [css-d] @Font-Face Not Working in IE/FF, What Are Best Practices?

[MiB]

jun 13 2014 Elli Vizcaino elli...@yahoo.com:

 Also, while on the topic wanted to know what are some best practices, 
 especially for fall back fonts. I am using the standard: Arial, 
 Helvetica, sans-serif but these fonts don't necessarily have the same 
 proportions as my chosen web fonts, so they would throw the look and feel off 
 of the design if a fallback font would indeed need to be used. 


Research ”font stacks”, try out a few and take it from there to build your own.

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Re: [css-d] Equal height script not working on some pages

[MiB]

30 jun 2014 kl. 06:54 skrev J.C. Berry jcharlesbe...@gmail.com:

 Hello all,
 We are having an issue of content running off some pages past the
 footer-even though we are using an equal height script. Here is one of the
 pages:


You don’t specify which browsers have an issue. Looks OK in Safari 7.0.4
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Re: [css-d] Right col jumps to next line

[MiB]

jun 18 2014 19:10 Hahnel, Fred (DET-MRM) fred.hah...@mrm-mccann.com:

 You need to use inline css with all your code.  Don't use div either. Or 
 floats. 
 
 Think 1999.
 For help: http://www.emailology.org/

Good ideas there I’m sure.

You can also forego HTML email and just use plain text or Rich Text and just 
Communicate. Something some people forget is the number one to check off. IF 
HTML is needed for some good reason give a link to the site.

Email should always be relevant and useful for the recipient and not try and to 
do stuff email was not meant to do. Content, content, content or forget it. I 
filter all my email and if you goof up one time you’re gone.

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Re: [css-d] Having trouble adding video to web page. (Off topic)

[MiB]

jun 5 2014 22:06 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 God preserve me from those who would embed video in e-mail.
 It is bad enough having video inflicted on me when I visit
 a web site, but to have it arrive in an e-mail would indicate
 to me that the sender had no concern whatsoever for the
 civilities of electronic intercourse.


A link to a web site with a interesting movie is a potential good start of a 
relationship. 
An embedded video in the email message is tantamount to a good addition to the 
spam filter.


Embedded videos better be opt-in or the sender will be sorry they were so 
stupid. 
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Re: [css-d] Select by descendant?

[MiB]

may 16 2014 11:53 BPJ b...@melroch.se:

 is it possible to select an element based on the presence or absence of a
 descendant with some attribute?


AFAIK it’s not possible to select a parent element based on its descendant, no.

Can you describe a specific example? Do you control the HTML source?
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Re: [css-d] Select by descendant?

[MiB]

may 16 2014 14:25 Brian Kardell bkard...@gmail.com:

 If you only, need this in script, jQuery has had :has from the beginning
 (it was a proposal from CSS3 a decade and a half ago), and if you need it
 in CSS you might have a look at hitchjs which has it


I suppose that if you are already using jQuery you could make a script add a 
class or whatever to the parent element.  While this is cheating (:-P) it will 
work unless Javascript is inactive.
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Re: [css-d] Select by descendant?

[MiB]

may 16 2014 13:59 Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh sandy.pittendr...@gmail.com:

 X-Path in XML

Is this viable for browser solutions with HTML5? I’m not familiar with X-path 
outside of Java, which I only use at the server.
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Re: [css-d] Role of Pre-processors

[MiB]

maj 10 2014 12:54 Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk:

 I respectfully disagree.  The problem is not what the developers
 /want/ us to do, but rather than there are far too many of us
 who are only too eager to accede to their wishes.  We are under no
 obligation whatsoever to do anything that a developer might want us
 to.  I have never used, and will never use, any vendor-specific
 prefixes.  I neither need nor want to live at the (b)le{a|e}ding
 edge:  I prefer to wait until a specification becomes a formal
 recommendation before adopting any part of it for production work.

Define formal. 
Anyway, while what you expressed might be an admirable position, it does seem 
to not be anchored in the reality where most developers live and operate. Of 
course as more current browsers removes the need for vendor-specific prefixing 
for important features, that particular aspect may be more irrelevant and 
unneeded now than a couple of years back.

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Re: [css-d] Role of Pre-processors

[MiB]

maj 10 2014 16:54 Tim Climis tim.cli...@gmail.com:

 but those are irrelevant to 
 this thread.

How did standards enter into a discussion on the role of (CSS) preprocessors 
anyway? Preprocessors are largely operationally independent of standards — you 
may choose to support them or not as usual — so I feel the role of standards 
are irrelevant here.
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Re: [css-d] Firefox and page inflation -- late response

[MiB]

29 apr 2014 kl. 18:35 skrev Tom Livingston tom_livings...@ymail.com:

 I recall seeing this come through,

I thought so to but couldn’t find it my mailbox nor in the online archive.
 but anyway, I'd like to say that I wasn't defending *not* using RWD, I'm a 
 big proponent of it, but IIRC there were some replies that eluded to 
 non-responsive sites being broken or preventative of users using the site 
 on phones or tablets. I was just saying that in some (and at this point maybe 
 most) cases that's not entirely true. 
That’s probably debatable, but I will not try that discussion here.

 
 Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't do mobile-first RWD, but for noobs, 
 saying anything remotely suggesting that if you don't do RWD, you're site 
 won't work on phones, et al, is misleading.
Well, it may of course work less well compared to a responsive and responsible 
site design. However, some sites, or versions of these, may not have mobile 
users within target and need to do stuff for bigger screen users that just 
won’t work with mobile.

But let’s not be theoretical about this issue. CSS and design is where it’s at. 
See you in another thread…. ;-)
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