Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[TJ Trout]

I'm talking about the first ever unifi AC ap, it was junk.

You had to have line of site to connect to the stupid thing (almost), but
seriously like 15ft range @ 5ghz, maybe 25ft @ 2.4ghz

[image: Inline image 1]


On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Yes - I can confirm that the new-ish Lites are 802.3af.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a bunch of the UAP-AC-LITE (802.11ac, 2x2, dual band) which are
>> like $79. The ones I have are 24VDC gigabit only. Have heard that the
>> newest shipping version of the same model does support 802.3af power now,
>> which is convenient. Don't quite understand how TJ wasn't happy with them
>> being a "flop".
>>
>> If you want a properly set up Unifi controller virtual machine or
>> physical system on a network, it does take a bit of Linux knowledge to do
>> it right, and ensure that it can be continually updated.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
 I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't
 seamlessly roam right?

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:

> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>
>
>
> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
> version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded to
> the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage 
> is
> not very good.
>
> What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
> ceiling mount AP available?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> TJ
>
>
> --
>


>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[TJ Trout]

they do but it's not direct TCP like I would like (aka dedicated static)
but neat none the less, they have a very cheap monthly rate but they per MB
rate is very high compared to twilio and others

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:51 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

> But if Hologram has a way to access the device like Lewis says, there's no
> reason to maintain a persistent VPN connection.
>
> On Jan 31, 2018 8:45 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:
>
> Slightly more expensive, but t-mobile has plans that are $20-25/mo and
> "unlimited" rate limited 128kbps x 128 kbps after that. For a critical site
> $20/mo can be worth it.
>
> $2/mo is not a realistic figure if you're maintaining a persistent VPN
> connection, the $ per MB rate for those sort of plans is actually worse.
> Just the periodic handshakes and keepalives will eat through 20-25MB in a
> month.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Interesting...I didn’t know there were plans for $2/mo.  That definitely
>> makes it worthwhile to have a backdoor LTE connection to towers.
>>
>> I’ll have to check into that
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
>>> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>>>
>>> TJ
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate
 this LTE backdoor?

 Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???

 Am I missing something?

 -sean



 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:

>>> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
> for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP 
> account
> with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
> go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
> functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?
>
> This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
> wireless carriers that even offer it...
>
> I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I
> don't have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost
> way big$$$
>
> TJ
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
> wrote:
>
>> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
>> IP to both ends of that tunnel.
>> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel
>> using the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up 
>> with a
>> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can 
>> pass
>> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>>
>> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our
>> core routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you
>> cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a
>> public ip over VPN somewhere right?
>>
>> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>>
>> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>>
>> TJ
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[TJ Trout]

Jeremy must hate POE switches also why the APC with your DC plant, have
you considered a dc-ac inverter?

Where is the AC-DC power supply? dont see one in rack

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:59 PM, Jeremy  wrote:

> I love my ICT stuff!
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Unless your batteries are really stoned.
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Wednesday, January
>> 31, 2018 5:20 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant
>> conversion
>> On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>>> Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units
>>> can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.
>>>
>>
>>
>> SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second
>> shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than
>> enough for startup inrush though.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Chuck McCown]

Unless your batteries are really stoned.  

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 5:20 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion 


On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units 
can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.



SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second 
shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more 
than enough for startup inrush though.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Josh Baird]

On the load side in my case.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:21 PM, Mark Frost  wrote:

> Not fun indeed. When you say current in-rush, is that on the mains/supply
> side?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:54
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>
>
>
> My problem with them (SD) was that a current in-rush would trip them, and
> the only way to get them to work again was to power cycle them.  Not fun.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:51 PM, Mark Frost  wrote:
>
> What dramas did you have with the SD units? Any model specifically?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:15
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>
>
>
> Good info - thanks!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
> On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units
> can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.
>
>
>
> SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second
> shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than
> enough for startup inrush though.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Mathew Howard]

But if Hologram has a way to access the device like Lewis says, there's no
reason to maintain a persistent VPN connection.

On Jan 31, 2018 8:45 PM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

Slightly more expensive, but t-mobile has plans that are $20-25/mo and
"unlimited" rate limited 128kbps x 128 kbps after that. For a critical site
$20/mo can be worth it.

$2/mo is not a realistic figure if you're maintaining a persistent VPN
connection, the $ per MB rate for those sort of plans is actually worse.
Just the periodic handshakes and keepalives will eat through 20-25MB in a
month.





On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Interesting...I didn’t know there were plans for $2/mo.  That definitely
> makes it worthwhile to have a backdoor LTE connection to towers.
>
> I’ll have to check into that
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
>> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>>
>> TJ
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
>>> LTE backdoor?
>>>
>>> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
 for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
 with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
 go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
 functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?

 This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
 wireless carriers that even offer it...

 I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
 have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
 big$$$

 TJ

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
> IP to both ends of that tunnel.
> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel
> using the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with 
> a
> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "TJ Trout" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>
> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our
> core routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you
> cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a
> public ip over VPN somewhere right?
>
> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>
> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>
> TJ
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Mark Frost]

Not fun indeed. When you say current in-rush, is that on the mains/supply side?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:54
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

My problem with them (SD) was that a current in-rush would trip them, and the 
only way to get them to work again was to power cycle them.  Not fun.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:51 PM, Mark Frost 
> wrote:
What dramas did you have with the SD units? Any model specifically?


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:15
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Good info - thanks!

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Seth Mattinen 
> wrote:
On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units can be 
hard to find at times, but are super reliable.


SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second 
shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than 
enough for startup inrush though.

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Eric Kuhnke]

Slightly more expensive, but t-mobile has plans that are $20-25/mo and
"unlimited" rate limited 128kbps x 128 kbps after that. For a critical site
$20/mo can be worth it.

$2/mo is not a realistic figure if you're maintaining a persistent VPN
connection, the $ per MB rate for those sort of plans is actually worse.
Just the periodic handshakes and keepalives will eat through 20-25MB in a
month.





On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Interesting...I didn’t know there were plans for $2/mo.  That definitely
> makes it worthwhile to have a backdoor LTE connection to towers.
>
> I’ll have to check into that
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
>> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>>
>> TJ
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
>>> LTE backdoor?
>>>
>>> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
 for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
 with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
 go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
 functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?

 This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
 wireless carriers that even offer it...

 I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
 have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
 big$$$

 TJ

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
> IP to both ends of that tunnel.
> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel
> using the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with 
> a
> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "TJ Trout" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>
> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our
> core routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you
> cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a
> public ip over VPN somewhere right?
>
> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>
> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>
> TJ
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Lewis Bergman]

Which is why everyone used the RSD. I had to learn that lesson as well.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:53 PM Josh Baird  wrote:

> My problem with them (SD) was that a current in-rush would trip them, and
> the only way to get them to work again was to power cycle them.  Not fun.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:51 PM, Mark Frost  wrote:
>
>> What dramas did you have with the SD units? Any model specifically?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:15
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>>
>>
>>
>> Good info - thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Seth Mattinen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units
>> can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.
>>
>>
>>
>> SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second
>> shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than
>> enough for startup inrush though.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Lewis Bergman]

Hologram is 40 cents.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:19 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Interesting...I didn’t know there were plans for $2/mo.  That definitely
> makes it worthwhile to have a backdoor LTE connection to towers.
>
> I’ll have to check into that
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
>> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>>
>> TJ
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
>>> LTE backdoor?
>>>
>>> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
 for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
 with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
 go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
 functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?

 This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
 wireless carriers that even offer it...

 I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
 have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
 big$$$

 TJ

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
> IP to both ends of that tunnel.
> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel
> using the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with 
> a
> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "TJ Trout" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>
> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our
> core routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you
> cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a
> public ip over VPN somewhere right?
>
> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>
> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>
> TJ
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Andreas Wiatowski]

Thanks for the great information everyone!

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
http://www.silowireless.com
Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

On Jan 31, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Josh Baird 
> wrote:

My problem with them (SD) was that a current in-rush would trip them, and the 
only way to get them to work again was to power cycle them.  Not fun.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:51 PM, Mark Frost 
> wrote:
What dramas did you have with the SD units? Any model specifically?


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:15
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Good info - thanks!

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Seth Mattinen 
> wrote:
On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units can be 
hard to find at times, but are super reliable.


SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second 
shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than 
enough for startup inrush though.

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Sean Heskett]

Interesting...I didn’t know there were plans for $2/mo.  That definitely
makes it worthwhile to have a backdoor LTE connection to towers.

I’ll have to check into that

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 1:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>
> TJ
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
>> LTE backdoor?
>>
>> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
>>> for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
>>> with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
>>> go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
>>> functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?
>>>
>>> This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
>>> wireless carriers that even offer it...
>>>
>>> I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
>>> have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
>>> big$$$
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
 IP to both ends of that tunnel.
 If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel using
 the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with a
 tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.


 -- Original Message --
 From: "TJ Trout" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
 Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

 I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our core
 routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you cannot
 access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a public
 ip over VPN somewhere right?

 How is everyone handling OOBE?

 I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!

 TJ


>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Josh Baird]

My problem with them (SD) was that a current in-rush would trip them, and
the only way to get them to work again was to power cycle them.  Not fun.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 8:51 PM, Mark Frost  wrote:

> What dramas did you have with the SD units? Any model specifically?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:15
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>
>
>
> Good info - thanks!
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
> On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units
> can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.
>
>
>
> SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second
> shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than
> enough for startup inrush though.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Mark Frost]

What dramas did you have with the SD units? Any model specifically?


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, 1 February 2018 11:15
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Good info - thanks!

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Seth Mattinen 
> wrote:
On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units can be 
hard to find at times, but are super reliable.


SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second 
shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than 
enough for startup inrush though.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Josh Baird]

Good info - thanks!

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
>
>> Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units
>> can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.
>>
>
>
> SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second
> shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than
> enough for startup inrush though.
>

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Lewis Bergman]

Read up on hologram. They have a solution to reach any device on their
Network.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 6:30 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> you don't, you set up a really small system at the site which can run
> openvpn. In Linux terminology it would have three interfaces, eth0 (private
> IP space hardwired to your serial console/core router/POP management
> equipment), the LTE network interface, and tun0.  Have it initiate, from
> inside the cellular carrier's NAT, an openvpn connection to a server you
> control on a static IP somewhere. tun0 would have a static IP in private IP
> range used by just the openvpn server and client. When you get to get into
> the OOB you SSH through your openvpn server to reach the client machine.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:25 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> same as twilio which we use, problem is all LTE is NAT, how do i login to
>> a device behind nat when I cannot force the carrier to give me a port
>> forward?
>>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
> Hologram network and set up their site to do it for you. Pretty slick. I
>>> also like that is really cheap if you don't use it. As a warning, don't let
>>> the MT put a default route in for it or you will pay huge if your primary
>>> goes down. Otherwise it is so close to free it is crazy.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
 the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)

 TJ

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate
> this LTE backdoor?
>
> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> -sean
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are
>> multihomed) for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you 
>> a
>> PPTP account with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of
>> our networks go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to
>> preform OOBM functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?
>>
>> This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
>> wireless carriers that even offer it...
>>
>> I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I
>> don't have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost
>> way big$$$
>>
>> TJ
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static
>>> private IP to both ends of that tunnel.
>>> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel
>>> using the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up 
>>> with a
>>> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can 
>>> pass
>>> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>>>
>>> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our
>>> core routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you
>>> cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to 
>>> a
>>> public ip over VPN somewhere right?
>>>
>>> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>>>
>>> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Eric Kuhnke]

you don't, you set up a really small system at the site which can run
openvpn. In Linux terminology it would have three interfaces, eth0 (private
IP space hardwired to your serial console/core router/POP management
equipment), the LTE network interface, and tun0.  Have it initiate, from
inside the cellular carrier's NAT, an openvpn connection to a server you
control on a static IP somewhere. tun0 would have a static IP in private IP
range used by just the openvpn server and client. When you get to get into
the OOB you SSH through your openvpn server to reach the client machine.


On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:25 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> same as twilio which we use, problem is all LTE is NAT, how do i login to
> a device behind nat when I cannot force the carrier to give me a port
> forward?
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Hologram network and set up their site to do it for you. Pretty slick. I
>> also like that is really cheap if you don't use it. As a warning, don't let
>> the MT put a default route in for it or you will pay huge if your primary
>> goes down. Otherwise it is so close to free it is crazy.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
>>> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate
 this LTE backdoor?

 Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???

 Am I missing something?

 -sean



 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are
> multihomed) for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a
> PPTP account with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of
> our networks go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to
> preform OOBM functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?
>
> This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
> wireless carriers that even offer it...
>
> I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I
> don't have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost
> way big$$$
>
> TJ
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
> wrote:
>
>> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
>> IP to both ends of that tunnel.
>> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel
>> using the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up 
>> with a
>> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can 
>> pass
>> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>>
>> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our
>> core routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you
>> cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a
>> public ip over VPN somewhere right?
>>
>> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>>
>> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>>
>> TJ
>>
>>
>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[TJ Trout]

same as twilio which we use, problem is all LTE is NAT, how do i login to a
device behind nat when I cannot force the carrier to give me a port forward?

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Hologram network and set up their site to do it for you. Pretty slick. I
> also like that is really cheap if you don't use it. As a warning, don't let
> the MT put a default route in for it or you will pay huge if your primary
> goes down. Otherwise it is so close to free it is crazy.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
>> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>>
>> TJ
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
>>> LTE backdoor?
>>>
>>> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> -sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
 Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
 for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
 with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
 go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
 functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?

 This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
 wireless carriers that even offer it...

 I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
 have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
 big$$$

 TJ

 On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
> IP to both ends of that tunnel.
> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel
> using the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with 
> a
> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "TJ Trout" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>
> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our
> core routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you
> cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a
> public ip over VPN somewhere right?
>
> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>
> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>
> TJ
>
>

>>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[TJ Trout]

I wasted a small fortune with the SD series. what a joke.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
>
>> Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units
>> can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.
>>
>
>
> SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second
> shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more than
> enough for startup inrush though.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/31/18 15:44, Josh Baird wrote:
Do NOT use the SD series.  Sager is a reputable supplier!  The RSD units 
can be hard to find at times, but are super reliable.



SD-500 and larger does do constant current limiting but with a 5 second 
shutoff. All of the smaller SD series do not. 5 seconds should be more 
than enough for startup inrush though.

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Lewis Bergman]

Hologram network and set up their site to do it for you. Pretty slick. I
also like that is really cheap if you don't use it. As a warning, don't let
the MT put a default route in for it or you will pay huge if your primary
goes down. Otherwise it is so close to free it is crazy.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:30 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
> the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)
>
> TJ
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
>> LTE backdoor?
>>
>> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
>>> for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
>>> with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
>>> go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
>>> functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?
>>>
>>> This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
>>> wireless carriers that even offer it...
>>>
>>> I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
>>> have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
>>> big$$$
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private
 IP to both ends of that tunnel.
 If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel using
 the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with a
 tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.


 -- Original Message --
 From: "TJ Trout" 
 To: af@afmug.com
 Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
 Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

 I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our core
 routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you cannot
 access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a public
 ip over VPN somewhere right?

 How is everyone handling OOBE?

 I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!

 TJ


>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Josh Baird]

Yes - I can confirm that the new-ish Lites are 802.3af.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> I have a bunch of the UAP-AC-LITE (802.11ac, 2x2, dual band) which are
> like $79. The ones I have are 24VDC gigabit only. Have heard that the
> newest shipping version of the same model does support 802.3af power now,
> which is convenient. Don't quite understand how TJ wasn't happy with them
> being a "flop".
>
> If you want a properly set up Unifi controller virtual machine or physical
> system on a network, it does take a bit of Linux knowledge to do it right,
> and ensure that it can be continually updated.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't
>>> seamlessly roam right?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>>
 E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
 Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400



 On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

 First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
 version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded to
 the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage is
 not very good.

 What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
 ceiling mount AP available?

 Thanks!!

 TJ


 --

>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Dave]

Yes,
They will seamlessly roam. Just configure the snr value to release the 
client in the Radio configuration
There are a ton of other features that I could on and on about but that 
is one I like when we place them in areas the require dense

proximity of APs.
 We placed one unit in a house that has a foyer that is on the second 
floor that covers the entire 5 bedroom 4 bath house. We get anywhere 
from -75 -55
anywhere in the house. That includes the dish joeys and hoppers oh and 2 
xboxes




On 01/31/2018 11:35 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't 
seamlessly roam right?


On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave > wrote:


E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400



On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the
original version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I
didn't upgraded to the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger
house now and the coverage is not very good.

What is the best option currently for the longest range most
reliable ceiling mount AP available?

Thanks!!

TJ


-- 





--

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Eric Kuhnke]

I have a bunch of the UAP-AC-LITE (802.11ac, 2x2, dual band) which are like
$79. The ones I have are 24VDC gigabit only. Have heard that the newest
shipping version of the same model does support 802.3af power now, which is
convenient. Don't quite understand how TJ wasn't happy with them being a
"flop".

If you want a properly set up Unifi controller virtual machine or physical
system on a network, it does take a bit of Linux knowledge to do it right,
and ensure that it can be continually updated.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't
>> seamlessly roam right?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:
>>
>>> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
>>> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>>
>>> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
>>> version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded to
>>> the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage is
>>> not very good.
>>>
>>> What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
>>> ceiling mount AP available?
>>>
>>> Thanks!!
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Andreas Wiatowski]

Yes, it’s the modular with 2x700W supplies.  If I ordered without the toggles, 
I could use a distribution switch and add a 3rd.  You can also stack units for 
more capacity.


I love the web interface, friendly and easy to use…The Alpha stuff requires a 
lot of reading and is old and clunky.

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
http://www.silowireless.com
Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

Silo Wireless is a Proud Member of:
CanWISP http://www.canwisp.ca
WISPA http://wispa.org
Brantford Brant Chamber of Commerce
Paris Chamber of Commerce
Cambridge Chamber of Commerce


_
The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for 
the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information and 
may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient 
of this message or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in 
error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete this 
message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this 
message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.

From: Af  on behalf of SmarterBroadband 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 6:05 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Is that the modular one?   Looks like that one unit loaded with one 700 watt 
PSU is about the same as the two units I am looking at.   Just which fits the 
environment best.

Adam

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Wiatowski
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

The ICT -48 Unit I have has a 4 position toggle switch breaker…the breakers can 
be remote tripped via the easy to use web interface.  You could get away with 
that instead of the distribution panel.

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
http://www.silowireless.com
Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

Silo Wireless is a Proud Member of:
CanWISP http://www.canwisp.ca
WISPA http://wispa.org
Brantford Brant Chamber of Commerce
Paris Chamber of Commerce
Cambridge Chamber of Commerce


_
The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for 
the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information and 
may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient 
of this message or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in 
error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete this 
message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this 
message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.

From: Af > on behalf of 
Dustin Jurman >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 5:19 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

We have been playing with some of these in -48 and IDC Netonix.  Working very 
well.

DSJ

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do everything.  
We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow them to be power 
cycled when necessary.

Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…

Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.

Adam

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU 24V 
400W.
Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp budget 
interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving realistic advice 
that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components combined with a full time 
linux guy and a full time coder?

Id love you to do it out of the kindness 

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[SmarterBroadband]

Good to know…

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 1:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

Careful.  Packetflux PDU can't do positive ground.  So no -48.  Found that out 
the hard way.

If neither the load or the power supply has a ground on the positive wire then 
you're good to go.

 

When I connected 3 Telrad Compacts (positive ground) nothing exploded, but you 
couldn't actually switch any of them off.  If I turned off one port, the load 
moved to one of the other ports.  

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Josh Baird"  >

To: af@afmug.com  

Sent: 1/31/2018 3:03:25 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This is 
likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.

 

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  > wrote:

I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do everything.  
We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow them to be power 
cycled when necessary.

 

Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…

 

Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.

 

Adam

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of can...@believewireless.net  
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU 24V 
400W. 

Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc. 

Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​

 

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones  > wrote:

Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp budget 
interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving realistic advice 
that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components combined with a full time 
linux guy and a full time coder?

 

Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have some 
advisory busget.

 

Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries 
coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the apcs 
die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the facebook 
groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[SmarterBroadband]

Is that the modular one?   Looks like that one unit loaded with one 700 watt 
PSU is about the same as the two units I am looking at.   Just which fits the 
environment best.

 

Adam

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Wiatowski
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

The ICT -48 Unit I have has a 4 position toggle switch breaker…the breakers can 
be remote tripped via the easy to use web interface.  You could get away with 
that instead of the distribution panel.

 

Cheers,

 

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO

Silo Wireless Inc.

1-866-727-4138 x-600

  http://www.silowireless.com

Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

 

Silo Wireless is a Proud Member of:

CanWISP   http://www.canwisp.ca 

WISPA   http://wispa.org

Brantford Brant Chamber of Commerce

Paris Chamber of Commerce

Cambridge Chamber of Commerce

 

 

_

The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for 
the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information and 
may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient 
of this message or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in 
error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete this 
message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this 
message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. 

 

From: Af  > on behalf of 
Dustin Jurman  >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com  "  >
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 5:19 PM
To: "af@afmug.com  "  >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

We have been playing with some of these in -48 and IDC Netonix.  Working very 
well.  

 

DSJ

 

From: Af [  mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:58 PM
To:   af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do everything.  
We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow them to be power 
cycled when necessary.

 

Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…

 

Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.

 

Adam

 

From: Af [  mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of   can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To:   af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU 24V 
400W. 

Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc. 

Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​

 

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones < 
 thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp budget 
interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving realistic advice 
that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components combined with a full time 
linux guy and a full time coder?

 

Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have some 
advisory busget.

 

Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries 
coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the apcs 
die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the facebook 
groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.

 

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Andreas Wiatowski]

The ICT -48 Unit I have has a 4 position toggle switch breaker…the breakers can 
be remote tripped via the easy to use web interface.  You could get away with 
that instead of the distribution panel.

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
http://www.silowireless.com
Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

Silo Wireless is a Proud Member of:
CanWISP http://www.canwisp.ca
WISPA http://wispa.org
Brantford Brant Chamber of Commerce
Paris Chamber of Commerce
Cambridge Chamber of Commerce


_
The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for 
the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information and 
may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient 
of this message or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in 
error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete this 
message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this 
message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.

From: Af  on behalf of Dustin Jurman 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 5:19 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

We have been playing with some of these in -48 and IDC Netonix.  Working very 
well.

DSJ

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do everything.  
We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow them to be power 
cycled when necessary.

Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…

Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.

Adam

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU 24V 
400W.
Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp budget 
interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving realistic advice 
that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components combined with a full time 
linux guy and a full time coder?

Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have some 
advisory busget.

Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries 
coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the apcs 
die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the facebook 
groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Andreas Wiatowski]

I lost 3 Telrad 3000 RRU by having a Cambium CMM powered on DC plant then 
adding Telrad.  Turned up the Telrad…#SPARKSHOW

The power connectors were melted off the board on the tower top. 30K mistake

Cheers,

Andreas Wiatowski, CEO
Silo Wireless Inc.
1-866-727-4138 x-600
http://www.silowireless.com
Wireless | Fibre | VoIP | PBX | IPTV

Silo Wireless is a Proud Member of:
CanWISP http://www.canwisp.ca
WISPA http://wispa.org
Brantford Brant Chamber of Commerce
Paris Chamber of Commerce
Cambridge Chamber of Commerce


_
The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for 
the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information and 
may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient 
of this message or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in 
error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete this 
message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are 
hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this 
message or its attachments is strictly prohibited.

From: Af  on behalf of Adam Moffett 
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 4:13 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

When I say "found out the hard way" I should clarify that was through no fault 
of packetflux.  The description of the PDU clearly states that it has a 
negative ground, it was a failure on my part to internalize that information.


-- Original Message --
From: "Adam Moffett" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/31/2018 4:10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Careful.  Packetflux PDU can't do positive ground.  So no -48.  Found that out 
the hard way.
If neither the load or the power supply has a ground on the positive wire then 
you're good to go.

When I connected 3 Telrad Compacts (positive ground) nothing exploded, but you 
couldn't actually switch any of them off.  If I turned off one port, the load 
moved to one of the other ports.


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Baird" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/31/2018 3:03:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This is 
likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband 
> wrote:
I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do everything.  
We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow them to be power 
cycled when necessary.

Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…

Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.

Adam

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU 24V 
400W.
Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp budget 
interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving realistic advice 
that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components combined with a full time 
linux guy and a full time coder?

Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have some 
advisory busget.

Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries 
coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the apcs 
die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the facebook 
groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Dustin Jurman]

We have been playing with some of these in -48 and IDC Netonix.  Working very 
well.

DSJ

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do everything.  
We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow them to be power 
cycled when necessary.

Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…

Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.

Adam

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
can...@believewireless.net
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU 24V 
400W.
Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp budget 
interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving realistic advice 
that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components combined with a full time 
linux guy and a full time coder?

Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have some 
advisory busget.

Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries 
coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the apcs 
die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the facebook 
groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Mathew Howard]

Interesting... I didn't realize Telrad used positive ground. That would be
a problem...

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 3:10 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Careful.  Packetflux PDU can't do positive ground.  So no -48.  Found that
> out the hard way.
> If neither the load or the power supply has a ground on the positive wire
> then you're good to go.
>
> When I connected 3 Telrad Compacts (positive ground) nothing exploded, but
> you couldn't actually switch any of them off.  If I turned off one port,
> the load moved to one of the other ports.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Baird" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 1/31/2018 3:03:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>
> PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This is
> likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>
>> I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the
>> ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do
>> everything.  We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow
>> them to be power cycled when necessary.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…
>>
>>
>>
>> Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
>> can...@believewireless.net
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>>
>>
>>
>> It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU
>> 24V 400W.
>>
>> Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
>>
>> Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp
>> budget interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving
>> realistic advice that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components
>> combined with a full time linux guy and a full time coder?
>>
>>
>>
>> Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have
>> some advisory busget.
>>
>>
>>
>> Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries
>> coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the
>> apcs die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the
>> facebook groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Adam Moffett]

When I say "found out the hard way" I should clarify that was through no 
fault of packetflux.  The description of the PDU clearly states that it 
has a negative ground, it was a failure on my part to internalize that 
information.



-- Original Message --
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/31/2018 4:10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

Careful.  Packetflux PDU can't do positive ground.  So no -48.  Found 
that out the hard way.
If neither the load or the power supply has a ground on the positive 
wire then you're good to go.


When I connected 3 Telrad Compacts (positive ground) nothing exploded, 
but you couldn't actually switch any of them off.  If I turned off one 
port, the load moved to one of the other ports.



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Baird" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/31/2018 3:03:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This 
is likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.


On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  
wrote:
I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do 
everything.  We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will 
allow them to be power cycled when necessary.




Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…



Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.



Adam



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
can...@believewireless.net

Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion



It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex 
PSU 24V 400W.


Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, 
etc.


Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​



On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:


Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small 
wisp budget interested in looking at our gear and power setup and 
giving realistic advice that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar 
components combined with a full time linux guy and a full time 
coder?




Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do 
have some advisory busget.




Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on 
batteries coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes 
by letting the apcs die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i 
have to go to the facebook groups, and thats like going to a 
mikrotik or ubnt forum.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Adam Moffett]

Careful.  Packetflux PDU can't do positive ground.  So no -48.  Found 
that out the hard way.
If neither the load or the power supply has a ground on the positive 
wire then you're good to go.


When I connected 3 Telrad Compacts (positive ground) nothing exploded, 
but you couldn't actually switch any of them off.  If I turned off one 
port, the load moved to one of the other ports.



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Baird" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/31/2018 3:03:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This 
is likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.


On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  
wrote:
I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do 
everything.  We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will 
allow them to be power cycled when necessary.




Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…



Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.



Adam



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
can...@believewireless.net

Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion



It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex 
PSU 24V 400W.


Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, 
etc.


Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​



On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
 wrote:


Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp 
budget interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving 
realistic advice that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar 
components combined with a full time linux guy and a full time coder?




Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have 
some advisory busget.




Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on 
batteries coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by 
letting the apcs die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have 
to go to the facebook groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or 
ubnt forum.

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[SmarterBroadband]

Hmmm  not enough power, the Telrad BTS draw up to 100 watts, some of our sites 
have 6 units.

I suppose we could have two PDU with 3 on each….

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 12:23 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

Yep, the PacketFlux PDU is perfect for that. We have a couple of Baicells eNBs 
running off them.

 

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Josh Baird  > wrote:

PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This is 
likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.

 

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  > wrote:

I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the 
ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do everything.  
We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow them to be power 
cycled when necessary.

 

Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…

 

Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.

 

Adam

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of can...@believewireless.net  
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

 

It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU 24V 
400W. 

Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc. 

Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​

 

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones  > wrote:

Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp budget 
interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving realistic advice 
that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components combined with a full time 
linux guy and a full time coder?

 

Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have some 
advisory busget.

 

Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries 
coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the apcs 
die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the facebook 
groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Steve Jones]

you want i should leave the side door unlocked some night?

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
wrote:

> Ill take all your XL UPS
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Monday, January 29, 2018 at 1:56 PM
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>
> That looks to meet alot of our need, though the 48 volt
>
> SAF recommended Eltek minipack system, i havent priced that
>
> This is what most of our sites have (theres some depreciating ubnt sectors
> too)
> 4x EPMP access point/Paketflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-48
> 4x AP320/Packetflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-24
> Sitemonitor/cambium wallwort
> 1-2 backhauls (unlic: epmp, ptp500, UBNT rocket) (lic: SAF or Mimosa)
> RB1100AHX2 (AC power)
> HP 1810 24g switch (AC power)
>
> APC 750xl or 1000xl w/management card
>
>
>
>
> This is probably one of our more heavily populated sites
>
> 4x ap320/packetflux/meanwell 48v
> 4x fsk/packetflux/meanwell 24v
> 4x EPMP/packetflux/ meanwell 48v
> 2x UBNT Nanobridge private APs/ubnt PS
> 2x SAF Lumina/ SAF PS (will be 1x lumina and 2x Integra soon)
> 3x UBNT rocket M5/UBNT PS
> 1x EPMP force 200/EPMP PS
> 1x PTP 650/Cambium PS
> 1x sitemonitor/cambium 29v PS
> 1x RB1100AHX2/AC power
> 1x HP 1810g 24/AC power
>
> APC 1500XL + 2 External packs and management card
>
>
> the AC fans run on the utility side because I dont have the battery budget
>
>
> Cabling is a shitshow with all the AC powercords and branded power
> supplies too.
>
> I assume the APC UPS runtime is wasted with all the power supplies.
>
> Scalability is a factor as well, so far we havent justified 450m but may
> soon and we will roll some LTE in the near term which will add substantial
> demand
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:39 PM, David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> Here is what we are doing, I think this is close to what Steve is asking
>> for:
>>
>>
>>
>> Meanwell SDR-240-24 AC to DC power source:  $84
>>
>> Meanwell DR-UPS40 Battery Float/UPS:  $37
>>
>> Tycon TPDIN MonitorWeb2:  $131
>>
>> 24 V of battery backup $70-120 depending on the runtime looking for
>>
>> Netonix 150 W or 250 DC switch:   $250-350  (This is really the only
>> expensive component)
>>
>> Heater:   $65
>>
>> Fan:  $14
>>
>>
>>
>> With this, we can run 5-8 hours on very small batteries, we figure we
>> have several hours to get a generator to the site if power isn’t coming
>> back.   We run all POE from the Netonix, it works really well.   Here are
>> the other things we can do with the box:
>>
>>1. Monitor temp in the cabinet
>>2. Monitor/alert on loss of AC line power through TP DIN
>>3. Monitor voltage of the batteries
>>4. Monitor voltage to the Netonix
>>5. Monitor Current to the Netonix
>>6. Monitor Current in/out of the batteries
>>7. Auto start the heater below 40 degrees
>>8. Auto start the fan above 80 degrees
>>9. Power cycle the netonix from the TP DIN
>>10. Power cycle any AP, Router, Backhaul from the Netonix
>>
>>
>>
>> We also put a Mikrotik router in this cabinet.   Usually a Hex POE (for
>> small sites) or a 3011 for larger sites.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have 13 in the field set up like this and are going 15 more right
>> now.   While it might be a little more than what you were thinking, it
>> gives us a ton of control for pretty minimal investment per site.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best part is, no coding necessary.  Doing all this with the Monitor Web2
>> settings and/or SNMP.Let me know if you are interested in pictures.
>> For this second batch we have started using Terminal blocks to clean up the
>> wiring, the cabinets look a little better, but we went to a smaller poly
>> cabinet that makes things a little tight.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Carl Peterson
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 5:39 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>>
>>
>>
>> You can still do DC-DC off it and then hook up netonix.  If I had to do
>> it now I'd go with the IDC switch.  When we did our design, the idc didn't
>> exist so we just went down to 24V off of our A  and B sides and run a
>> redundant powered 24V bus which all the netonix switches run on.
>>
>>
>>
>> I better buy up another batch of Elteks before all y'all buy them all up.
>> These are mostly decommissioned Sprint/Clearwire btw.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 27, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> A 12 port version would be nice.  Looks like the 26 port version is $600.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Used to, now with the IDC model is not needed (isolated dc)…
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Af  on behalf of Josh Baird <
>> joshba...@gmail.com>
>> *Reply-To: *"af@afmug.com" 

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[TJ Trout]

Never, but it's not a bad idea to have out of band management? I can get
the LTE service for $2 a month + data used (ssh data = zero)

TJ

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:09 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:

> Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
> LTE backdoor?
>
> Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> -sean
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
>> for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
>> with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
>> go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
>> functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?
>>
>> This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
>> wireless carriers that even offer it...
>>
>> I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
>> have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
>> big$$$
>>
>> TJ
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private IP
>>> to both ends of that tunnel.
>>> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel using
>>> the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with a
>>> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
>>> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>>>
>>> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our core
>>> routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you cannot
>>> access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a public
>>> ip over VPN somewhere right?
>>>
>>> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>>>
>>> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>>>
>>> TJ
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[TJ Trout]

ICT is amazing (made in canada) never had a single failure in 10+ years!

You can use the intellicharge series and a ethernet relay set (like packet
flux), the bast is their modular system with redundant psu's, breakers,
remote reboot and monitoring, battery charging, testing etc but they are
pricey$$

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Mathew Howard 
wrote:

> Yep, the PacketFlux PDU is perfect for that. We have a couple of Baicells
> eNBs running off them.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This is
>> likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>>
>>> I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the
>>> ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do
>>> everything.  We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow
>>> them to be power cycled when necessary.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
>>> can...@believewireless.net
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU
>>> 24V 400W.
>>>
>>> Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
>>>
>>> Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp
>>> budget interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving
>>> realistic advice that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components
>>> combined with a full time linux guy and a full time coder?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have
>>> some advisory busget.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on
>>> batteries coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by
>>> letting the apcs die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go
>>> to the facebook groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Mathew Howard]

Yep, the PacketFlux PDU is perfect for that. We have a couple of Baicells
eNBs running off them.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:03 PM, Josh Baird  wrote:

> PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This is
> likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:
>
>> I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the
>> ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do
>> everything.  We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow
>> them to be power cycled when necessary.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…
>>
>>
>>
>> Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
>> can...@believewireless.net
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>>
>>
>>
>> It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU
>> 24V 400W.
>>
>> Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
>>
>> Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp
>> budget interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving
>> realistic advice that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components
>> combined with a full time linux guy and a full time coder?
>>
>>
>>
>> Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have
>> some advisory busget.
>>
>>
>>
>> Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries
>> coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the
>> apcs die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the
>> facebook groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Josh Baird]

Unifi AC Pro/Lite is just fine.  We use them everywhere.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:35 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't seamlessly
> roam right?
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:
>
>> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
>> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>
>> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original
>> version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded to
>> the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage is
>> not very good.
>>
>> What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
>> ceiling mount AP available?
>>
>> Thanks!!
>>
>> TJ
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Gino A. Villarini]

Ill take all your XL UPS

From: Af > on behalf of Steve 
Jones >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Monday, January 29, 2018 at 1:56 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

That looks to meet alot of our need, though the 48 volt

SAF recommended Eltek minipack system, i havent priced that

This is what most of our sites have (theres some depreciating ubnt sectors too)
4x EPMP access point/Paketflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-48
4x AP320/Packetflux injector/Meanwell DR-120-24
Sitemonitor/cambium wallwort
1-2 backhauls (unlic: epmp, ptp500, UBNT rocket) (lic: SAF or Mimosa)
RB1100AHX2 (AC power)
HP 1810 24g switch (AC power)

APC 750xl or 1000xl w/management card




This is probably one of our more heavily populated sites

4x ap320/packetflux/meanwell 48v
4x fsk/packetflux/meanwell 24v
4x EPMP/packetflux/ meanwell 48v
2x UBNT Nanobridge private APs/ubnt PS
2x SAF Lumina/ SAF PS (will be 1x lumina and 2x Integra soon)
3x UBNT rocket M5/UBNT PS
1x EPMP force 200/EPMP PS
1x PTP 650/Cambium PS
1x sitemonitor/cambium 29v PS
1x RB1100AHX2/AC power
1x HP 1810g 24/AC power

APC 1500XL + 2 External packs and management card


the AC fans run on the utility side because I dont have the battery budget


Cabling is a shitshow with all the AC powercords and branded power supplies too.

I assume the APC UPS runtime is wasted with all the power supplies.

Scalability is a factor as well, so far we havent justified 450m but may soon 
and we will roll some LTE in the near term which will add substantial demand


On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:39 PM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
Here is what we are doing, I think this is close to what Steve is asking for:

Meanwell SDR-240-24 AC to DC power source:  $84
Meanwell DR-UPS40 Battery Float/UPS:  $37
Tycon TPDIN MonitorWeb2:  $131
24 V of battery backup $70-120 depending on the runtime looking for
Netonix 150 W or 250 DC switch:   $250-350  (This is really the only expensive 
component)
Heater:   $65
Fan:  $14

With this, we can run 5-8 hours on very small batteries, we figure we have 
several hours to get a generator to the site if power isn’t coming back.   We 
run all POE from the Netonix, it works really well.   Here are the other things 
we can do with the box:

  1.  Monitor temp in the cabinet
  2.  Monitor/alert on loss of AC line power through TP DIN
  3.  Monitor voltage of the batteries
  4.  Monitor voltage to the Netonix
  5.  Monitor Current to the Netonix
  6.  Monitor Current in/out of the batteries
  7.  Auto start the heater below 40 degrees
  8.  Auto start the fan above 80 degrees
  9.  Power cycle the netonix from the TP DIN
  10. Power cycle any AP, Router, Backhaul from the Netonix

We also put a Mikrotik router in this cabinet.   Usually a Hex POE (for small 
sites) or a 3011 for larger sites.

We have 13 in the field set up like this and are going 15 more right now.   
While it might be a little more than what you were thinking, it gives us a ton 
of control for pretty minimal investment per site.

Best part is, no coding necessary.  Doing all this with the Monitor Web2 
settings and/or SNMP.Let me know if you are interested in pictures.   For 
this second batch we have started using Terminal blocks to clean up the wiring, 
the cabinets look a little better, but we went to a smaller poly cabinet that 
makes things a little tight.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Carl Peterson
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 5:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

You can still do DC-DC off it and then hook up netonix.  If I had to do it now 
I'd go with the IDC switch.  When we did our design, the idc didn't exist so we 
just went down to 24V off of our A  and B sides and run a redundant powered 24V 
bus which all the netonix switches run on.

I better buy up another batch of Elteks before all y'all buy them all up. These 
are mostly decommissioned Sprint/Clearwire btw.

On Jan 27, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Josh Baird 
> wrote:
A 12 port version would be nice.  Looks like the 26 port version is $600.

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
Used to, now with the IDC model is not needed (isolated dc)…

From: Af > on behalf of Josh 
Baird >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 1:51 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: 

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Sean Heskett]

Um how often are you loosing contact with your sites to necessitate this
LTE backdoor?

Seems like a lot of overkill to make routing changes???

Am I missing something?

-sean



On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 11:48 AM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed)
> for the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
> with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
> go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
> functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?
>
> This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
> wireless carriers that even offer it...
>
> I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
> have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
> big$$$
>
> TJ
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett 
> wrote:
>
>> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private IP
>> to both ends of that tunnel.
>> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel using
>> the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with a
>> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
>> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>>
>> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our core
>> routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you cannot
>> access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a public
>> ip over VPN somewhere right?
>>
>> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>>
>> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>>
>> TJ
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion

[Josh Baird]

PacketFlux (PDU) would be able to power cycle DC powered radios.  This is
likely what we'll be doing for Baicells eNB's.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 2:58 PM, SmarterBroadband  wrote:

> I have been looking at ICT.   The ICT600-48SBC Power Supply and the
> ICT200DF-12IRC distribution panel.   This with a Netonix would do
> everything.  We have sites with Telrad so the distribution panel will allow
> them to be power cycled when necessary.
>
>
>
> Anyone using ICT?  Bit pricy though, looking at $1,600 plus…
>
>
>
> Need a solution where we can power cycle DC powered radios.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
> can...@believewireless.net
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:51 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Dc plant conversion
>
>
>
> It's a little spendy but about how about 1 $670 option? Alpha Cordex PSU
> 24V 400W.
>
> Remote monitoring, e-mailed alerts, swappable rectifier, DIN mount, etc.
>
> Add a Netonix switch and you can power just about anything.​
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> Any of you folks who know both dc plant and even more know small wisp
> budget interested in looking at our gear and power setup and giving
> realistic advice that doesnt have a 10 different 500 dollar components
> combined with a full time linux guy and a full time coder?
>
>
>
> Id love you to do it out of the kindness of your heart, but i do have some
> advisory busget.
>
>
>
> Im just tired of the apc ups waste and super ghetto runtimes on batteries
> coupled with having to accept we are destroying runtimes by letting the
> apcs die. please, somebody, please. Otherwise i have to go to the
> facebook groups, and thats like going to a mikrotik or ubnt forum.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[TJ Trout]

Does anyone want to trade a PPTP connection (prefer you are multihomed) for
the purpose of getting through LTE NAT? AKA I assign you a PPTP account
with a static IPV4 and you do the same, so that if either of our networks
go down we can use the others to tunnel back thru LTE to preform OOBM
functions? We can shape @ 1mbps?

This is a simple was around paying high fees for a static IP from the
wireless carriers that even offer it...

I don't really want to subscribe to some russian vpn service if I don't
have to, or pay some cloud based OOBM company which will both cost way
big$$$

TJ

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private IP
> to both ends of that tunnel.
> If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel using
> the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with a
> tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can pass
> 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "TJ Trout" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik
>
> I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our core
> routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you cannot
> access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a public
> ip over VPN somewhere right?
>
> How is everyone handling OOBE?
>
> I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!
>
> TJ
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

[Mathew Howard]

Well, yes, but you wouldn't want multiple WISPs competing against eachother
under the same brand. There's obviously nothing you can do to stop other
unlicensed wisps from coming into the area, but you wouldn't want to be
fighting amongst yourselves.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:

>
> pretty sure cell carriers had licenses and protected areas ; unlicensed
> wisps do not
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> *To:* af 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 31, 2018 11:53 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP
>
> It definitely wouldn't be an easy thing to put together, and there would
> be a lot of details that would have to be worked out.
>
> The only way I can really see it working, would be if it was basically a
> franchise system... local guy pays whatever franchise fees, and in exchange
> gets to use the brand and gets a protected area (only protected from other
> franchisees, obviously...), it would probably make sense to also take on
> the role of a distributor, to some extent, and probably also provide some
> level of customer support.
>
> It could work, but I'm guessing getting a lot of existing WISPs to sign up
> for something like that isn't going to be easy. The WISPs that already have
> an established brand with a good local reputation aren't going to be crazy
> about the idea of dumping all that and starting over with a new brand, and
> the ones that don't... you aren't going to want involved (unless they're
> brand new startups, but that's a whole different thing).
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I am might be wrong, but I don't see many of those working out. Who
>> fronts the money for the drop in the bucket national ad campaign? National
>> brand awareness doesn't just happen. Same for buying equipment. Who runs
>> the warehouse, do you pay upfront for the equipment? How long do you have
>> to wait for your delivery since it adds a step? I doubt the distributors
>> will give you a big price break if you expect them to drop ship a 1
>> unit order to 125 different places.
>>
>> How do you deal with someone that is hurting your brand?
>>
>> I guess I just don't see that the advantages outweigh the huge PITA but I
>> hope it works for you guys. I guess I saw the difficulties in trying to
>> make a similar deal with only 4 companies. It took almost a year.
>>
>> It would have a natural extension into IX and peering I guess.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 3:17 AM Gino A. Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Some of the Benefits:
>>>
>>> National Brand Awareness – huge plus when your brand is know and
>>> recognized as option #3 nationally
>>>
>>> Standardized Operations – getting a bunch of WISP together and
>>> standardizing on the best operations procedures could be daunting but the
>>> benefits overshadow the initial work
>>>
>>> Buying/Negotiating power – buying 100 radios vs 1 could be a great
>>> negotiating point, also when negotiating tower leases, fiber, ip transit
>>> etc..
>>>
>>> Political / Lobbying – being  represented by ONE entity that is backed
>>> by hundred of thousands of subs will provide leverage when lobbying at FCC
>>> and other political maters. Ht wisp operator could be seen as one of the
>>> big boys in the table vs scattered small mom and pop shops…
>>>
>>> Better prospect for exit/acquisition – Investors will take notice and as
>>> a conglomerate, there are better financial outlook in a exit strategy.
>>>
>>> From: Af  on behalf of Travis Johnson <
>>> t...@ida.net>
>>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 11:19 PM
>>>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP
>>>
>>> And honestly, what benefits are you hoping to gain?? A single name?
>>> Better pricing on equipment?
>>>
>>> I'm not sure I understand what the ultimate goal would be, and if it
>>> would be worth the cost to "consolidate" hundreds or thousands of small
>>> companies.
>>>
>>> Things are different now than they were in the early cell days... or the
>>> early cable days (as Rise/JAB is discovering). It seems like KeyOn was
>>> trying to do something similar to this, even going public, before dying a
>>> slow and miserable death.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/30/2018 8:04 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>>
>>> I like the concept, it's going to be like herding cats though...
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 30, 2018, Brian Webster 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 In this discussion should we have it, a history of the first cellular
 networks their evolution and when the industry started to explode would
 need to be laid out.  Starting from the early 80’s on up through. This is
 important because as Gino has suggested, the WISP industry is following a
 very similar path and 

Re: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[Adam Moffett]

You can use PPTP through NAT on LTE.  You can assign a static private IP 
to both ends of that tunnel.
If PPTP won't pass something you need, you can run an EoIP tunnel using 
the PPTP IP's as the endpoints of the EoIP tunnel.  You end up with a 
tunnel inside of a tunnel.  It'll have a lowish real MTU, but you can 
pass 1500 bytes within the EoIP tunnel and it'll just be fragmented.



-- Original Message --
From: "TJ Trout" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 1/31/2018 12:51:40 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our core 
routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you 
cannot access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to 
a public ip over VPN somewhere right?


How is everyone handling OOBE?

I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!

TJ

Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

pretty sure cell carriers had licenses and protected areas ; unlicensed wisps 
do not

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: af 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 11:53 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP


  It definitely wouldn't be an easy thing to put together, and there would be a 
lot of details that would have to be worked out. 


  The only way I can really see it working, would be if it was basically a 
franchise system... local guy pays whatever franchise fees, and in exchange 
gets to use the brand and gets a protected area (only protected from other 
franchisees, obviously...), it would probably make sense to also take on the 
role of a distributor, to some extent, and probably also provide some level of 
customer support.


  It could work, but I'm guessing getting a lot of existing WISPs to sign up 
for something like that isn't going to be easy. The WISPs that already have an 
established brand with a good local reputation aren't going to be crazy about 
the idea of dumping all that and starting over with a new brand, and the ones 
that don't... you aren't going to want involved (unless they're brand new 
startups, but that's a whole different thing).




  On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Lewis Bergman  
wrote:

I am might be wrong, but I don't see many of those working out. Who fronts 
the money for the drop in the bucket national ad campaign? National brand 
awareness doesn't just happen. Same for buying equipment. Who runs the 
warehouse, do you pay upfront for the equipment? How long do you have to wait 
for your delivery since it adds a step? I doubt the distributors will give you 
a big price break if you expect them to drop ship a 1 unit order to 125 
different places.

How do you deal with someone that is hurting your brand? 

I guess I just don't see that the advantages outweigh the huge PITA but I 
hope it works for you guys. I guess I saw the difficulties in trying to make a 
similar deal with only 4 companies. It took almost a year.

It would have a natural extension into IX and peering I guess.



On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 3:17 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

  Some of the Benefits:


  National Brand Awareness – huge plus when your brand is know and 
recognized as option #3 nationally 


  Standardized Operations – getting a bunch of WISP together and 
standardizing on the best operations procedures could be daunting but the 
benefits overshadow the initial work


  Buying/Negotiating power – buying 100 radios vs 1 could be a great 
negotiating point, also when negotiating tower leases, fiber, ip transit etc.. 


  Political / Lobbying – being  represented by ONE entity that is backed by 
hundred of thousands of subs will provide leverage when lobbying at FCC and 
other political maters. Ht wisp operator could be seen as one of the big boys 
in the table vs scattered small mom and pop shops…  


  Better prospect for exit/acquisition – Investors will take notice and as 
a conglomerate, there are better financial outlook in a exit strategy. 


  From: Af  on behalf of Travis Johnson 
  Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 11:19 PM

  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP



  And honestly, what benefits are you hoping to gain?? A single name? 
Better pricing on equipment? 

  I'm not sure I understand what the ultimate goal would be, and if it 
would be worth the cost to "consolidate" hundreds or thousands of small 
companies.

  Things are different now than they were in the early cell days... or the 
early cable days (as Rise/JAB is discovering). It seems like KeyOn was trying 
to do something similar to this, even going public, before dying a slow and 
miserable death.

  Travis



  On 1/30/2018 8:04 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:

I like the concept, it's going to be like herding cats though...

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018, Brian Webster  
wrote:

  In this discussion should we have it, a history of the first cellular 
networks their evolution and when the industry started to explode would need to 
be laid out.  Starting from the early 80’s on up through. This is important 
because as Gino has suggested, the WISP industry is following a very similar 
path and has always suffered from brand/product image, recognition and 
understanding. Cellular phones back then suffered the same problem. The word 
cellular was understood as a biology term by most. The term “Car Phones” was 
better understood and only those who had a lot of money had those and it was a 
party line system with no privacy. People had them out of extreme necessity 
only. The concept of anyone other than the phone company being able to deliver 
a phone service would not 

Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

[Mathew Howard]

It definitely wouldn't be an easy thing to put together, and there would be
a lot of details that would have to be worked out.

The only way I can really see it working, would be if it was basically a
franchise system... local guy pays whatever franchise fees, and in exchange
gets to use the brand and gets a protected area (only protected from other
franchisees, obviously...), it would probably make sense to also take on
the role of a distributor, to some extent, and probably also provide some
level of customer support.

It could work, but I'm guessing getting a lot of existing WISPs to sign up
for something like that isn't going to be easy. The WISPs that already have
an established brand with a good local reputation aren't going to be crazy
about the idea of dumping all that and starting over with a new brand, and
the ones that don't... you aren't going to want involved (unless they're
brand new startups, but that's a whole different thing).


On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I am might be wrong, but I don't see many of those working out. Who fronts
> the money for the drop in the bucket national ad campaign? National brand
> awareness doesn't just happen. Same for buying equipment. Who runs the
> warehouse, do you pay upfront for the equipment? How long do you have to
> wait for your delivery since it adds a step? I doubt the distributors will
> give you a big price break if you expect them to drop ship a 1 unit
> order to 125 different places.
>
> How do you deal with someone that is hurting your brand?
>
> I guess I just don't see that the advantages outweigh the huge PITA but I
> hope it works for you guys. I guess I saw the difficulties in trying to
> make a similar deal with only 4 companies. It took almost a year.
>
> It would have a natural extension into IX and peering I guess.
>
> On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 3:17 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:
>
>> Some of the Benefits:
>>
>> National Brand Awareness – huge plus when your brand is know and
>> recognized as option #3 nationally
>>
>> Standardized Operations – getting a bunch of WISP together and
>> standardizing on the best operations procedures could be daunting but the
>> benefits overshadow the initial work
>>
>> Buying/Negotiating power – buying 100 radios vs 1 could be a great
>> negotiating point, also when negotiating tower leases, fiber, ip transit
>> etc..
>>
>> Political / Lobbying – being  represented by ONE entity that is backed by
>> hundred of thousands of subs will provide leverage when lobbying at FCC and
>> other political maters. Ht wisp operator could be seen as one of the big
>> boys in the table vs scattered small mom and pop shops…
>>
>> Better prospect for exit/acquisition – Investors will take notice and as
>> a conglomerate, there are better financial outlook in a exit strategy.
>>
>> From: Af  on behalf of Travis Johnson > >
>> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 11:19 PM
>>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP
>>
>> And honestly, what benefits are you hoping to gain?? A single name?
>> Better pricing on equipment?
>>
>> I'm not sure I understand what the ultimate goal would be, and if it
>> would be worth the cost to "consolidate" hundreds or thousands of small
>> companies.
>>
>> Things are different now than they were in the early cell days... or the
>> early cable days (as Rise/JAB is discovering). It seems like KeyOn was
>> trying to do something similar to this, even going public, before dying a
>> slow and miserable death.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 1/30/2018 8:04 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>
>> I like the concept, it's going to be like herding cats though...
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 30, 2018, Brian Webster 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In this discussion should we have it, a history of the first cellular
>>> networks their evolution and when the industry started to explode would
>>> need to be laid out.  Starting from the early 80’s on up through. This is
>>> important because as Gino has suggested, the WISP industry is following a
>>> very similar path and has always suffered from brand/product image,
>>> recognition and understanding. Cellular phones back then suffered the same
>>> problem. The word cellular was understood as a biology term by most. The
>>> term “Car Phones” was better understood and only those who had a lot of
>>> money had those and it was a party line system with no privacy. People had
>>> them out of extreme necessity only. The concept of anyone other than the
>>> phone company being able to deliver a phone service would not have ever
>>> seemed possible to a consumer. At that time the breakup of Ma Bell was just
>>> happening. A person could easily start a cellular network, no spectrum
>>> auctions back then. Just apply to the FCC and pay the license fees.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of 

[AFMUG] OOBE mikrotik

[TJ Trout]

I was wanting to add out of band management via LTE to some of our core
routers, but I think most/all cellular networks are NAT now so you cannot
access your LTE devices inbound unless you have it tunnel out to a public
ip over VPN somewhere right?

How is everyone handling OOBE?

I'm half tempted to do it via VHF low throughput radios!

TJ

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Google Earth images

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/31/18 08:46, Robert wrote:
Yep, the smartest  guys in the room once again, prove they are just in 
it for the $$


On 1/31/18 6:53 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Looks like Google finally turned off Panoramio.  I really liked how 
you could see photos from all over the world, and as you zoomed out, 
it would neatly compress them into a multi-view window.  I virtually 
visited many places across the globe this way.  Now it's been replaced 
with 'Google Maps Photos' Which is very clunky (within the GE 
Interface) and has about 1/20th (or less) of the content.  And as you 
zoom out, it just diminishes the number of photos you can see, and, it 
appears, only a single photo can be tied to a specific spot.





Can't have someone doing something better, now can we?

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[TJ Trout]

I guess I need more penetration or another e400, but they can't seamlessly
roam right?

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:06 AM, Dave  wrote:

> E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
> Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400
>
>
>
> On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original version
> which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded to the
> cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage is not
> very good.
>
> What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
> ceiling mount AP available?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> TJ
>
>
> --
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Ben Moore]

Hi TJ -

What was main issue with the UAP?  Which model was it?

Thanks,
Ben

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 9:53 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:

> First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original version
> which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded to the
> cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage is not
> very good.
>
> What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
> ceiling mount AP available?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> TJ
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[Dave]

E400 Hands down.. We are using them every where.
Have not tried new 410 yet but was very impressed with 400


On 01/31/2018 10:53 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original 
version which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't 
upgraded to the cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now 
and the coverage is not very good.


What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable 
ceiling mount AP available?


Thanks!!

TJ


--

[AFMUG] Ceiling mount AP with best range?

[TJ Trout]

First I started out with Ubiquiti AC AP ceiling mount the original version
which was a complete flop and waste of money. I didn't upgraded to the
cambium e400 but I've moved into a larger house now and the coverage is not
very good.

What is the best option currently for the longest range most reliable
ceiling mount AP available?

Thanks!!

TJ

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Google Earth images

[Robert]

Yep, the smartest  guys in the room once again, prove they are just in 
it for the $$


On 1/31/18 6:53 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
Looks like Google finally turned off Panoramio.  I really liked how you 
could see photos from all over the world, and as you zoomed out, it 
would neatly compress them into a multi-view window.  I virtually 
visited many places across the globe this way.  Now it's been replaced 
with 'Google Maps Photos' Which is very clunky (within the GE Interface) 
and has about 1/20th (or less) of the content.  And as you zoom out, it 
just diminishes the number of photos you can see, and, it appears, only 
a single photo can be tied to a specific spot.

Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

[Lewis Bergman]

I am might be wrong, but I don't see many of those working out. Who fronts
the money for the drop in the bucket national ad campaign? National brand
awareness doesn't just happen. Same for buying equipment. Who runs the
warehouse, do you pay upfront for the equipment? How long do you have to
wait for your delivery since it adds a step? I doubt the distributors will
give you a big price break if you expect them to drop ship a 1 unit
order to 125 different places.

How do you deal with someone that is hurting your brand?

I guess I just don't see that the advantages outweigh the huge PITA but I
hope it works for you guys. I guess I saw the difficulties in trying to
make a similar deal with only 4 companies. It took almost a year.

It would have a natural extension into IX and peering I guess.

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 3:17 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> Some of the Benefits:
>
> National Brand Awareness – huge plus when your brand is know and
> recognized as option #3 nationally
>
> Standardized Operations – getting a bunch of WISP together and
> standardizing on the best operations procedures could be daunting but the
> benefits overshadow the initial work
>
> Buying/Negotiating power – buying 100 radios vs 1 could be a great
> negotiating point, also when negotiating tower leases, fiber, ip transit
> etc..
>
> Political / Lobbying – being  represented by ONE entity that is backed by
> hundred of thousands of subs will provide leverage when lobbying at FCC and
> other political maters. Ht wisp operator could be seen as one of the big
> boys in the table vs scattered small mom and pop shops…
>
> Better prospect for exit/acquisition – Investors will take notice and as a
> conglomerate, there are better financial outlook in a exit strategy.
>
> From: Af  on behalf of Travis Johnson 
> Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 11:19 PM
>
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP
>
> And honestly, what benefits are you hoping to gain?? A single name? Better
> pricing on equipment?
>
> I'm not sure I understand what the ultimate goal would be, and if it would
> be worth the cost to "consolidate" hundreds or thousands of small companies.
>
> Things are different now than they were in the early cell days... or the
> early cable days (as Rise/JAB is discovering). It seems like KeyOn was
> trying to do something similar to this, even going public, before dying a
> slow and miserable death.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 1/30/2018 8:04 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
> I like the concept, it's going to be like herding cats though...
>
> On Tuesday, January 30, 2018, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
>
>> In this discussion should we have it, a history of the first cellular
>> networks their evolution and when the industry started to explode would
>> need to be laid out.  Starting from the early 80’s on up through. This is
>> important because as Gino has suggested, the WISP industry is following a
>> very similar path and has always suffered from brand/product image,
>> recognition and understanding. Cellular phones back then suffered the same
>> problem. The word cellular was understood as a biology term by most. The
>> term “Car Phones” was better understood and only those who had a lot of
>> money had those and it was a party line system with no privacy. People had
>> them out of extreme necessity only. The concept of anyone other than the
>> phone company being able to deliver a phone service would not have ever
>> seemed possible to a consumer. At that time the breakup of Ma Bell was just
>> happening. A person could easily start a cellular network, no spectrum
>> auctions back then. Just apply to the FCC and pay the license fees.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of an interesting side note, I had the opportunity to be working on a
>> consulting project for AT in Portland Oregon years ago, we had to review
>> leases, zoning approvals and other documents to determine if sites could be
>> expanded and what work was required for same. Sometimes leases mentioned
>> specific frequencies and antennas etc. so they might have to be
>> renegotiated or modified to add data and new frequencies and antennas. In
>> this process I had my hands on Craig McCaw’s first 4 cell tower leases on
>> his first built cellular system. It was very cool to be holding that piece
>> of history, his personal signature and all. Such an innovator that hadn’t
>> hit his stride yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Brian Webster
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:42 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP
>>
>>
>>
>> I won’t be there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>> www.Broadband-Mapping.com
>>
>>

[AFMUG] OT - NMS With Nice Custom Dashboard and Camera Integration?

[Christopher Gray]

I'd like to setup a small dashboard with some graphs, gauges, a camera, and
possibly some switch inputs (for sending SNMP messages to devices). I've
done this sort of thing in LabView a long time ago with custom electronics,
but it occurs to me it could probably be done with a typical open-source
NMS since the devices are all SNMP and the camera has a live stream.

Any suggestions for NMS software (or other software) that would be good for
collecting data from a few SNMP devices and making a nice-looking dashboard
with a camera display?

[AFMUG] OT: Google Earth images

[Nate Burke]

Looks like Google finally turned off Panoramio.  I really liked how you 
could see photos from all over the world, and as you zoomed out, it 
would neatly compress them into a multi-view window.  I virtually 
visited many places across the globe this way.  Now it's been replaced 
with 'Google Maps Photos' Which is very clunky (within the GE Interface) 
and has about 1/20th (or less) of the content.  And as you zoom out, it 
just diminishes the number of photos you can see, and, it appears, only 
a single photo can be tied to a specific spot.

Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

[Gino A. Villarini]

Some of the Benefits:

National Brand Awareness – huge plus when your brand is know and recognized as 
option #3 nationally

Standardized Operations – getting a bunch of WISP together and standardizing on 
the best operations procedures could be daunting but the benefits overshadow 
the initial work

Buying/Negotiating power – buying 100 radios vs 1 could be a great 
negotiating point, also when negotiating tower leases, fiber, ip transit etc..

Political / Lobbying – being  represented by ONE entity that is backed by 
hundred of thousands of subs will provide leverage when lobbying at FCC and 
other political maters. Ht wisp operator could be seen as one of the big boys 
in the table vs scattered small mom and pop shops…

Better prospect for exit/acquisition – Investors will take notice and as a 
conglomerate, there are better financial outlook in a exit strategy.

From: Af > on behalf of 
Travis Johnson >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 11:19 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

And honestly, what benefits are you hoping to gain?? A single name? Better 
pricing on equipment?

I'm not sure I understand what the ultimate goal would be, and if it would be 
worth the cost to "consolidate" hundreds or thousands of small companies.

Things are different now than they were in the early cell days... or the early 
cable days (as Rise/JAB is discovering). It seems like KeyOn was trying to do 
something similar to this, even going public, before dying a slow and miserable 
death.

Travis


On 1/30/2018 8:04 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I like the concept, it's going to be like herding cats though...

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018, Brian Webster 
> wrote:
In this discussion should we have it, a history of the first cellular networks 
their evolution and when the industry started to explode would need to be laid 
out.  Starting from the early 80’s on up through. This is important because as 
Gino has suggested, the WISP industry is following a very similar path and has 
always suffered from brand/product image, recognition and understanding. 
Cellular phones back then suffered the same problem. The word cellular was 
understood as a biology term by most. The term “Car Phones” was better 
understood and only those who had a lot of money had those and it was a party 
line system with no privacy. People had them out of extreme necessity only. The 
concept of anyone other than the phone company being able to deliver a phone 
service would not have ever seemed possible to a consumer. At that time the 
breakup of Ma Bell was just happening. A person could easily start a cellular 
network, no spectrum auctions back then. Just apply to the FCC and pay the 
license fees.

Of an interesting side note, I had the opportunity to be working on a 
consulting project for AT in Portland Oregon years ago, we had to review 
leases, zoning approvals and other documents to determine if sites could be 
expanded and what work was required for same. Sometimes leases mentioned 
specific frequencies and antennas etc. so they might have to be renegotiated or 
modified to add data and new frequencies and antennas. In this process I had my 
hands on Craig McCaw’s first 4 cell tower leases on his first built cellular 
system. It was very cool to be holding that piece of history, his personal 
signature and all. Such an innovator that hadn’t hit his stride yet.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Brian Webster
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:42 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

I won’t be there.

Thank You,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com
www.Broadband-Mapping.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:25 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

Should we discuss it as session at wispamerica?

From: Af > on behalf of Brian 
Webster >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 1:50 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cellular One approach to WISP

Absolutely. I have had a method like this in my head for year. Craig McCaw 
really helped those independent