Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi ryokI think I’m not using Kur’ran for scientific purposes, rather than showing something that persuades me to think that that book is true and it makes me believe it.Correct me if I’m wrong, Kur’ran was written or brought to earth about 13 or 14 centuries ago.There are some things written there which need prophetic abilities to be written at that time. I think even a group of scientists together nowadays can’t even write a book with that kind of knowledge.By the time when Kur’ran was written, the first geographic maps started to be produced, so no science was existing. The science started growing during the middle ages, didn’t it?If people read and learned these books in the right way, probably this topic would not be posted.I love your opinion that we, after all, should get the best out of these books and live in peace, but there will be needed at least another decade or more for the people to make out that religion is nothing more than the interpretation of the words of God, something I mentioned in my first post on this topic.This is what I can say to conclude.God bless you all! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215768#p215768 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Ryok, that is very much what a muslim I spoke to said about the Koran. He said it was a matter of not taking every word of the Koran one way, but of reding it every day and meditating upon the meaning as an exercise to get closer to god, which is a form of dedication I appreciate. @Assault freak, one thing to bare in mind about science and scientific explanations, is that there is a huge difference between believing say evolution is a process by which life on earth develops, and believing a huge set of what are to me rather wild assumptions about the general pointlessness of the universe, the random nature of humanity and even worse, some mad ideas about evolutions affect upon morality that certain atheists happen to believe. It always amused me when I was studdying biology, psychology and religious philosophy how much credence people who did not know about science placed in the explanetory power of science, as opposed to what the scientists themselves happene d to be saying. Then of course, according to pantheistic views of god such as that of spinosa, the belief in God as continually working through a creative process which is still very much an ongoing thing, rather than the traditional christian and god said bam and created everything then put his feet up sort of view of creation is quite legitimate. Back when I still had an active faith, or supposedly vaguely practicing relationship with God I was quite the fan of process theology. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215707#p215707 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers Steve, your message assumes I am not a Christian. As it happens, I am, and I still find Christian arrogance offensive, perhaps more now than before I walked into church. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215603#p215603 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Tom, Ive only got a second to comment on this and obviously its a big issue. To be honest I have real trouble with the idea of Faith as this magical thing that makes you stop reasoning. This is because many religious people who I have respected have also been extremely rational, reasonable people who do not naturally hold unrealistic beliefs, do not believe science to be the work of the devil, and would generally hold quite well with the study of biology, (including evolution), and astronomy. Ive always found this idea that those who believe the bible must be word perfect true (particularly sinse I am quite aware of all the translation shenanigans with different versions etc), frankly loopy and not really to have a lot with christianity. I believe this is partly a consequence of how I was bought up and the sort of christian traditions I saw, sinse as weve said on many occasions America is far more religiously extreme than the mains tream British perspective. This is why to me faith as it stands always means more the idea of meditation, practice and a personal experience of, and attempt to have a relation to God, rather than holding the truth of some explanations over others and being wildly insistant on the wrongness of scientists. While I understand the logic, I just cant mentally get the idea of burning copies of the origin of species or refusing to even take note of scientific arguements to sit with the idea of actual prayer and experience of God, the two things just dont seem connected. itd be like if someone said to me ah, you get an amazing experience from music so you must believe the earth is flat! (music of the spheres, medeival cosmology etc etc).As I said, I do see the logic if you believe that to be a christian you must! take the bible as word for word true, but mentally I just cant o the gynmastics to make it happen. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215601#p215601 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Dark, In all historical books Ive read since I started my school, I have found no date, neither about kurran nor bible. Theres been even no more information than muslims have their precious book Kurran, and catholics have bible. The information about when were these books brought to Earth is found in these books only, history studied at school doesnt involve these topics.In a documentary Ive seen, I heard something like universal laws. Probably thats what Brad is talking about?Universal laws indicate our senses, perceptions, feelings, emotions, even our preferences.Another important thing to say, is that we are supposed to be vibrational creatures. Vibrations are what make our senses work. if our body is in the same vibrations as someones body is, theres a probability that these two people to be remarkably similar in what they like, what they feel or love.This is just what Ive read recently. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215587#p215587 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, I do take your point, and agree that archeology isnt perfect. It is an imperfect science a lot of it is based on guesswork as much as physical evidence, and yes you are right that some archeologists do tend to ignore, skip, and even hide evidence that doesnt fit neatly into one of their pet theories. Thats a consequence of being human, and scientists are as human as anyone else. Therefore when faced with something they cant explain or that disagrees with a long held belief the usual response is to bury it, hide it, and act like that evidence doesnt exist.For example, the oldest human remains that have been located. There is a controversy over how long modern humans, homo sapiens, have been around on Earth. Conventional evolutionary theory holds about a million years. Yet there is evidence that modern homo sapiens have been around far longer. Quite possibly at least four million years or more. There is no way to convince most arche ologists and paleontologists of this because it simply does not square with their current notions of evolution. Therefore they will ignore the potential evidence and outright shun anyone who proposes a theory that disagrees with the most popular one of the day.That said, I still think archeology offers us the best method for discovering our past, of figuring out what may have happened, and long as we realize some of that is subjective conjecture we can use it to further our understanding of the past. As far as I am concerned it isnt archeology that has failed but simply people who refuse to consider new evidence or alternative opinions when it is presented to them.As far as Easter Sunday goes it is actually not a fixed day. It is based on a lunar calendar rather than a solar calendar meaning that from year to year Easter falls on a different day from year to year. Im not sure why the orthodox church celebrates Easter on a different day, but Im sure th ey have their reasons.@Dark, science definitely is not perfect. Yes, there is the problem of induction, and no not everyone who claims to be a scientist is always logical, rational, and capable of making decisions based on logic and reason alone. Fact is the worlds scientists are just as human as everybody else, is able to make mistakes, and often allow their personal biases, opinions, and expectations to drive scientific discovery. Therefore in that sense science is in its own way a type of faith or religion because not everything scientists believe to be true can be proven with empirical evidence.As for the matter of faith it seems we are working with a different definition of the word. For my part I am assuming faith is defined the way the bible defines it. The bible says faith is things hoped for but is unseen. That is the Christian definition of the word and the one I often mean when I compare it to science. So Christian faith is not really about experience, evidence, but about hope and trust in the unseen.What you are talking about faith based on an experience with something spiritual, call it God, is something other than faith. Id call it personal experience which cant always be quantified by science but none-the-less may be true. It is these subjective experiences that have some basis in reality, are true as far as the individual involved goes, but is not easily proven to a second or third party. I wouldnt call those kinds of experiences as faith per se, but would classify it as personal evidence for believing in something that is otherwise not easily provable.@Steve, Id be curious to know what misconceptions you speak of. I grew up a Christian, spent many years reading and studying the bible, so feel I have a pretty good grasp of core Christian doctrines. That said, I know there are hundreds of different denominations that all have different points of view on biblical interpretation so its poss ible my own interpretations are different than yours. All the same Id like to know for discussions sake what misconceptions you believe I have regarding your faith.@Themadviolinist, I am in total agreement with you. After I left the Christian faith, became agnostic, and began to question everything from the doctrine of salvation to the nature of God I began to feel offended and frustrated with Christians who obsessed over my eternal soul. To this day I am still frustrated with the Christians who get on forums like this, on various mailing lists, or come knocking on my door trying to save me from going to hell. They dont seem to want to know or understand I made a choice, weather for good or bad, to walk away from those beliefs. The constant bible preaching, admonitions to get saved, etc just end up offending me and make me want less to do with Christianity and Christians because they simply wont shut up and leave me be.[ a-t ]@Afrim, as for when the Koran and the bible were written we have a pretty good idea when they were written. Even though it might not have been taught to you
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hello afrim and all.afrim, Im a Muslim like you however, i disagree with you about a few things.I dont believe that the Koran should be used for scientific purposes.let me be honest here. lately, when a scientist in the west discovers something in any field, lets take biology as an example. we try hard to get a verse from the Koran and say: hey that was mentioned in the Koran before. etc etc etc.If it was mentioned in the Koran since a long time ago then why didnt we discover it in the first place.Im not here to offend Islam because Islam is my religion however, I disagree on what people are doing these days.I believe that the biblecal books are here to guide us to the right way so we can connect to god.I as a Muslim believe that the Koran is the one true book that connects me to god.Christians believe that bible is the answer.If im not mistaken the jews believe that their revelat ions are the answer.instead of focusing on who is wrong and who is right. We should connect with each other and take from each other what we see as the right thing to do and leave the things that we dislike.We should learn from each other and then we can live at peace.regards..Ahmad. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215666#p215666 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @TomWell, I agree that archeology is the best field which can show our past, but I don’t see anything wrong with revealing some new facts which have never been published before. They are researching, and more and more can be discovered everyday.I have always agreed with the _expression_ that “Nobody is perfect” and scientists are no exception.I think, that a number of scientists nowadays know something more about the past, our origin and everything else we’ve been told, not that I know what they know indeed, but I know that a lot of information that they have is not, and seems not to be published. [Just some thoughts]As about Kur’ran and bible, what I wanted to say is that their date of writing and publishing is not wrote on our historic books at schools, but we know it from both Kur’ran and Bible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215613#p215613 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi all. Seems like Ive missed a lot over the past few days! I dont have the energy to get into all the theological stuff at the moment as I just returned from a long trip, but have some quick comments.@violinist, I definitely agree with you that Christian arrogance is in fact more offensive than typically... but I would also say that this mightve been a case of misinterpretation... I dont think its exactly wrong to be concerned with someones eternal well-being. yes, its ultimately between you and god, but people should at least have the right to ask others to think about it... though frankly, I agree that this kind of discussion should be more one on one than on a public forum. There is respectful evangelism, sharing with others and leaving the choice up to them, and then theres bible thumping... which I cant stand. I dont think blindcool was trying to force anything down everyones throat... just provoke thoug ht, which is never a bad thing. But I take your point... there definitely couldve been a better way of wording it, or maybe I just knew what his intent was so I wasnt too bothered.@dark, I definitely agree with you that faith, the Christian definition of faith, is certainly more than just hope and trust in the unscene... that is half the definition. Faith as is illustrated in the Bible is hope in the unscene based on solid evidence. My relationship with god comes before everything in my life, and I would certainly consider myself to live by faith more than by what I see in this world. But I certainly have no problems believing in science or evolution... I feel anyone who feels faith and science dont co-exist needs to reexamine the facts, whether they are a Christian or not. I was out in the country for a bit this week with some VI kids in my province who I know well and we went for a camp. While there, I had the joy of experiencing the nature and creation tha t God put on this earth that can only be found outside of big cities. Every rock, tree, plant and animal... yet I had no problem accepting the scientific processes that went into creating them. Even science has to come from somewhere... and I dont think its too far a stretch for any Christian to hold to the fact that God created all things and science, physics, geology... came along with it. Christians are definitely not all clueless and ignorant... I think, Tom, that might have been one of the misconceptions steve was talking about. One of the most common ones for sure, but one that is incorrect... especially if you look at some of the worlds leading thinkers who are also Christian such as William Lane Crague and Gary Habermas. Faith and definitely does not take away reason... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215677#p215677 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi.@everyone.I thought Id say what i think on this. I personally dont follow any religions and take the spiritual point of view. Meaning simply that we are energy and will go back to the energy when we leave this body. I believe that, god, allah, chi, what ever name you want to give to this state of being, is simply energy. We came from it and we go back to it. That isnt to say when we die, we cant explore the other worlds, if there are any which Im sure there are. Im simply saying that I do not believe god is a male form or female formed being that is looking over all of us.Oh and no, I cannot believe in hell either, to me that makes noe sense what so ever.Ive meditated, felt energy, had my own experiences heard voices, felt emotions. So i know, for me at least, there is something after I leave this body. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215569#p215569 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi Tom,I agree that there’s a field there called archeology who can discover somewhat our past. Theoretically, everything works great. They are engaged in this field, do researches and publish surveys. But that’s not always so.Some of the facts that archeologists show us nowadays may be changed, hidden or even never published. A good example was a professor from the university of California. An Archeologist, who, after discovering and reporting that he had found soft material of a dinosaur, while we have been told that dinosaurs have lived millions of years ago, and the man had found soft material. After this report, he was immediately fired. Just because he had discovered something? This sounds ridiculous.Some skeletons of humans had also been found somewhere deeply in the caves of Mexico whose age was believed to be older than 4 Million years, but they were never published since it would change some of the important facts we are told about our past. Fortunately, someone stands out from the crowd and shows these facts.As about Christianity, really I don’t understand the point why should be there many bibles written from different people in the past. This leaves higher chances that what is written there is altered as their mind told them. Another conspiracy that makes me not believe the bible, not that I’m a Christian but just to read for my curiosity is the Easter day. Correct me if I’m wrong, catholics celebrate the easter day in the first Sunday of April, while orthodocs celebrate it one week after. So whom to believe?Im really sorry if I caused any offence to you, really its not my intention to offend anybody, rather than discussing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215448#p215448 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, I dont really see what belief in the holy inspiration of a work like the Bible or the Koran has to do with conspiracy theories at all, sinse manifestly one is a historical source, (if there is a source at all), which can be analysed as history, the other is something with a personal set of beliefs attached to it which is experienced in an intrinsically different way. @tom, I once asked a vicar this same question during my confirmation classes, I believe it was with reference to Giddians victory over the midionites, as to why God would command Giddian to go and kill x thousand people in battle to the last man. He replied that what was recounted in the Bible was part of history, and throughout history people had always thought they new what God wanted. This was why God sent Jesus to say what he actually wanted people to do for each other, and to think carefully whenever I heard someone claiming God was speaking to them, or when I felt god was speaking to me, sinse it might be wishful thinking. he wasnt exactly a big fan of Hell and damnation either.Now without getting into the specific jesus debate I do think this shows something. Its not necessary for a christian to believe every word of the bible is true, or believe that all the depictions of God are, indeed this is part of a larger problem which you yourself outlined above. I really dislike this idea that scientists are all rational and logical and against all assumptions (philosophy of science, problem of induction etc), while anyone with a religious belief must have this magic thing called faith which lets you believe without any proof at all, and you must! believe that if you claime to have a relationship with God . Indeed Ive foun myself agreeing with a lot of modern Phenomenologist’s , and psychologists that our separation in Western thinking of the rational and the emotional as two totally opposing forces, (which ultimately can be traced back to Aristotle anyway), is incorrect. Thus, Ive always felt myself that faith if it exists constitutes an actual experienced relationship with God, or the divine or whatever word you want to use, indeed Ive met people who definitely had this sort of sense of such about them, (from a variety of religious traditions), Rather than the belief in explanations for world events such as the creation of humanity based on textual sources not connected to scientific theories. Indeed, back when I did myself have a sense of faith and still called myself one who believed in God, I found I got far more religious ore if you like from contemplating cosmological events such as the formation of the solar system and indeed the big bang than I did from any biblical explanations, indeed it was quite amusing that when I watched a very well illustrated video on creation/evolution, I found the creationist bits not only less convincing, but less divinely enspired, particularly sinse just because various atheists claime! that everything is random and pointless and nasty evolution means we should all be vile to each other, survival of the fittest etc etc doesnt actually mean theyre correct. Also however, I am not always convinced those who claim! to believe in God,or have a relationship with god actually do, particularly when this leads to attitudes such as smugness, pride, hatred of others and general unpleasantness, sinse one characteristic Ive noticed of all of those Ive met who definitely have a sense of holiness about them is a certain serenity, a calmness and acceptance, none of the insicurities that usually get associated with things like bigotry. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215450#p215450 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers Dark,Im not trying to correct you here or direct your belief in any way,but those smug people you refered to in your last post... yeah you can pretty much tell if they believe in god or not. There are two different types of Christians. The committed, who go to church and claim they believe in god but still do worldly things and dont really have it in their heart,and the submitted who are actual true Christians and have a relationship with god. You will notice a difference. Again Im just trying to help, being a Christian myself. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215456#p215456 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Steve, as to your point about the main reason for atheism I dont think it is just Christians that push people away from their faith. The bible itself has a lot to do with pushing people away from the faith. That is, in fact, the main reason I converted to atheism and gave up on Christianity. The bible has a very inconsistent and less than flattering concept of God. In particular the Old Testament.To explain a lot of Christian children are taught a very cherry picked view of the bible and God. They are told that God is loving, God is kind, just, merciful, and all good. However, when they get a little older and start reading the bible for themselves they discover that the God of the Old Testament is vengeful, petty, and down right evil. The books like Leviticus commands stoning people for being gay, for heresy, for adultery, and several other sins which I personally find objectionable. I do not believe in or support the death penalty so when I read that the Old Testame nt law, supposedly commanded by God, ordered the death penalty for sins and crimes my attitude of a loving and caring God disappeared.Even worse I know in the book of Joshua it describes the reclaiming of the promise land by Israel. I understand we are talking about a war, and things happen in war that shouldnt and wouldnt ordinarily happen. All the same there is a discussion in Joshua chapter 10 where God supposedly commands Joshua to kill everything that breaths including every man, woman, child, and animal in the city.. To my mind any God who would order the death of everything that breathes is no better than a monster like Adolph Hitler. I realize that might offend some Christians, but it is instances like that within the bible that forever changed my outlook about God.I had been raised with the notion that God was all good, all caring, all benevolent. The same basic presumption most Christians have about God. Then, I read the bible and find out i nstead of being loving and caring as I had been told he is a monster that orders the Children of Israel to murder sinners by stoning for a variety of sins. Then, if one wants to study the New Testament God casts sinners into a lake of fire to burn forever, and ever, and ever without reprieve. Please, tell me what God can be loving and all good who tortures souls for eternity?Anyway, that is why I take issue with the concept that a God has to be good and all loving etc. After reading the bible I came to realize the common view of God is one manufactured by Christians to avoid the fact that God as he was once viewed was quite different. Many atheists, Id say most, grew up in a Christian household and eventually broke away from the faith because they got tired of being lied to. They were raised with a rosy view of God, and when they finally sat down and read the bible they discovered the God in the bible is not the same as the one they were taught in Sunday school. It is n o wonder people like myself choose to leave Christianity, because it simply isnt possible to worship a deity who is so vengeful and cruel.@Afrim, the term you are looking for is empirical evidence not concreteness. In any case that is the primary difference between faith and science. In faith people believe without evidence something to be true even though it could be wrong. In science it is based on a preponderance of evidence, empirical evidence, which leads one to the truth through a series of verifiable facts. Most atheists are scientists or have a scientific viewpoint precisely because science is currently the only way to know something with a degree of certainty without venturing out into faith.While I take your point about knowing what happened in our early past there will always probably be a degree of uncertainty since it is hard to know what happened hundreds and thousands of years ago. That is why we have fields like archeology which tries to off er some sort of a historical view of our past, but even there it is open to alternative viewpoints and is not 100% certain. Archeology is only a best guess explanation of our past.That is why there are many different viewpoints or beliefs on the creation and origins of humans. there really isnt much in the way of evidence to prove any particular hypothesis thus we are left with conjecture and logical deductions. One outlook is it was the result of some god or supernatural consciousness, another is we are the product of aliens, another a process of evolution. As there is little evidence to go on I try not to be too dogmatic about something so controversial and say it should be left up to someones personal judgement. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215426#p215426 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers ah, I can kind of see where you are coming from, then. If I werent a christian, I mightve found that part of the post off-putting URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215484#p215484 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers Dark,Im not trying to correct you here or direct your belief in any way,but those smug people you refered to in your last post... yeah you can pretty much tell if they believe in god or not. There are two different types of Christians. The committed, who go to church and claim they believe in god but still do worldly things and dont really have it in their heart,and the submitted who are actual true Christians and have a relationship with god. You will notice a difference. Again Im just trying to help, being a Christian myself. As for having faith without evidence versus believing in science in such, it basically depends on people and their environment and such. If one has the evidence of evolution tought to them throughout their childhood, theyll likely become atheist. Or, there is a small chance that they find these theories to be absurd and adopt a religion. Likewise, one could grow up bei ng preached the gospel or some other religious belief, and develop some misconceptions as has happened with Thomas here. I myself grew up as... well... an atheist by definition. I never outright stated my atheissm, but if youd have told me Id become a believer in Christ two years ago or even last year at this time, you mightve heard a chuckle. But ever since I established my beliefs, my life has been more peaceful... but thats just me. People believe whatever religion and/or theory that sounds most true to them, or that reflects experiences theyve had. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215456#p215456 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers @dark, I was in fact responding to post 1 in this thread, and of course youre right I should have been more specific.@severestormsteve1, my comment about parenting comes from the following quote from that post:Hello everyone. I write this to you all not to offend anyone, but to provoke action and thought. I write this with kindness in my heart, because I am concerned regarding your eternal well being.Forgive me, but this is offensive, assuming as it clearly does that I and anyone who does not believe as the OP does exactly is in danger of their eternal soul. Arrogance is unattractive. Arrogance in a Christian is actually offensively hypocritical.As for the notion of Hitler being God, lets look at this a bit. If one believes in an all-knowing, all-powerful God, and that everything works according to the plan of this God, then one must accept that Hitlers works were in fact intended by that God for some purpose that the believer may not be able to understand, but must accept as good.Now, it would be a fair response that being part of the plan of God and being God are two different things. This is something that a Christian might say, since many Christians believe in a God that is not of the world he created. There are those of us who find the idea of a God separate from his creation to not accord with our beliefs or reason.I will come back to this tomorrow. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215463#p215463 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @DarkAn old conspirative piece of information can’t certainly have a such trusted reliability. In our religion we have our very precious book called Kur’ran which has a lot of information, even some of informations and processes like the birth of a child are believed to have been written before the science discovered them. But we can’t ever say it is 100% reliable, can we?Who in this world, saw the moment when our prophet Muhammed brought the book to this world, and can we realize whether it was written by the hand of God, or by the hand of men?If we keep on relying on concreteness, most of what is being said nowadays regarding our early past cannot be believed, since none of us saw, heard or experienced anything supernatural occurring on the Earth.Something I hate so much about the Atheism is that they keep relying on concreteness. Note: (with this term “Concreteness, I’m not blaiming anyone on here for being an Atheist).They want to have everything on the cards. For example, if we tell them that the process of the birth of the child was written far earlier than the science discovered, they will tell you that the men wrote it and will add that now that you lost the battle with me, give me a photo of your god All-llah, the craziest ever opinions I have ever come across with.I also hate the concept: “you are the creator of yourself”, since the first ever human born must have been created by somebody else, who was millions of percentage brighter than anyone of us claims to be. Because we have consciousness, which none of other living creatures on the earth does not have.Everything in this world that is invented belongs to its creater and humans are no exception.Indeed I cannot think that such a perfect creature, like we are, could have not been created by chance, or due to such explosion called the bigbang. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215424#p215424 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Steve, I think you might have misunderstood my point in post 30. I dont think Violinist was personally attacking anyone in post 29, indeed with these sorts of matters being so potentially contentious I always do watch for that type of thing, though I am pleased to say most of the time matters are kept civil. I just meant Violinist should indicate to whom his remarks are being addressed when it is not clear, sinse various people hear have mentioned the goodness of god or matters of truth and the last thing we want is the waters muddied by people responding to counter arguements or statements not intended for them or to address what they have sai. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215309#p215309 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers I probably shouldve clarified--my words werent based on your post entirely, I meant only to say I agree that people should make it clear who they are talking to, the rest was my genuin curiosity. It seemed to me that such a post as 29, which Ive read over three times, is rather trying to tell others how it is going to be, while at the same time telling us not to do the same... and I could be interpreting it wrong, because reading text with a robot voice rather than the speaker can majorly jack things up. But Id say, its much too bad if he is offended to me talking about the goodness of god--Im offended that hed even hint at such a monstrous, and low, in my opinion, deity such as hitler as being god. But will I ask him to stop doing that because I oppose it? Certainly not. because, after all, this forum encourages the _expression_ of opinion in a civilised manner. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215313#p215313 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers I probably shouldve clarified--my words werent based on your post entirely, I meant only to say I agree that people should make it clear who they are talking to, the rest was my genuin curiosity URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215313#p215313 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers I believe Violinists remarks about hitler as god were in reference to what Blindncool says in the first post of the conflict between the pantheistic idea found in many religious traditions such as Hinduism and buhdism, that all humans are in some sense God or all are devine, and the fact that in many religious traditions specifically the monotheistic ones, God is portrayed as absolutely good. Furthermore, there are Christians (likely followers of other religions too but I have to say the majority Ive encountered have been christian), who do! indeed ignore all debate, ideas of religious experience or faith, much less actually doing! anything nice for anyone and simply repeat Believe in our god because god is good, so there! Its sort of like chanting for your favourite sports team, and pretty much has about the same amount of thought or actual concern for the other person behind it, so to that extent I agree with Violinist, though I don 9;t believe weve had anyone that way inclined in this topic thus far. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215319#p215319 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers ah yes, the stereotypes. I fully agree with you on this point Dark, even though I am a Christian--although, given the fact that I once was an atheist who thought the idea of god was completely rediculus, I have some experience with the points outlined above. However, that is not what the bible tells us to do--and, astoundingly enough, the main reason for atheism in this world is Christians, namely how some of us come across I.E. Seeming to ignore all other religious debate and such. That, and the way that some people, one of which even used to be on this forum, do exactly what violinist said--they try to parent you, try to force you onto the Christian faith. So while I am a Christian, I gladly accept others for their beliefs, and Ill not shun some one for their beliefs, lest they are hostile towards me in the case of some of the extremist groups present today. This is also why I prefer not to engage in debates if it starts to feel like Im persuading people to believe in god and how good and loving he is. I dont want to do that to unwilling people: if you are muslim and want to stay muslim, do it. Same with hindus, buhddists, even evolutionists and atheists. I know how it feels to be put under pressure and almost shunned Christianity before I was saved because of it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215328#p215328 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Violinist, (and indeed anyone else in this topic), might I suggest you make it clear to whom your remarks are being addressed. I take it your above statements were directed at blindncool, however I am not certain and several other people hear have expressed different opinions with similar concepts. To save any confusion and anyone getting on the offended horse perhaps clarity would be helpful. As to your actual points, for all that I am as I said an agnostic about the question of the goodness of god (and no, telling me repeatedly about a much translated and debated historical text detailing events 2000 years ago in Judea wont help, sinse my doubting of Gods goodness has nothing to do with sins), I do agree completely about the practical goodness of christians enspired by faith. William Booth, The founder of the Salvation Army was actually born in Nottingham where my parents live, and a couple of weeks ago I toured his birthplace with my dad which has been restored as a museum, both a complete mockup of an early 19th century home (interesting to see something roughly middle class and neither completely poor nor amazingly rich), but also there was a lot about Booths philosophy an practice, and whatever doubts I have about the benificence of a supreme being I cant deny how much practical good organizations like the sally army do in the world. Indeed, its interesting that Booth first was interested in political and social reforms, particularly given that Nottingham had huge employment and poverty problems due to the lace industry falling off and factory owners either laying off workers or employing them at such a low wage they couldnt even afford to buy enough food. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215300#p215300 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Violinist, (and indeed anyone else in this topic), might I suggest you make it clear to whom your remarks are being addressed. I take it your above statements were directed at blindncool, however I am not certain and several other people hear have expressed different opinions with similar concepts. To save any confusion and anyone getting on the offended horse perhaps clarity would be helpful. As to your actual points, for all that I am as I said an agnostic about the question of the goodness of god (and no, telling me repeatedly about a much translated and debated historical text detailing events 2000 years ago in Judea wont help, sinse my doubting of Gods goodness has nothing to do with sins), I do agree completely about the practical goodness of christians enspired by faith. William Booth, The founder of the Salvation Army was actually born in Nottingham where my parents live, and a couple of weeks ago I toured his birthplace with my dad which has been restored as a museum, both a complete mockup of an early 19th century home (interesting to see something roughly middle class and neither completely poor nor amazingly rich), but also there was a lot about Booths philosophy an practice, and whatever doubts I have about the benificence of a supreme being I cant deny how much practical good organizations like the sally army do in the world. Indeed, its interesting that Booth first was interested in political and social reforms, particularly given that Nottingham had huge employment and poverty problems due to the lace industry falling off and factory owners either laying off workers or employing them at such a low wage they couldnt even afford to buy enough food, which lead to riots and a lot of unrest. This is why William Booth famously said How do you go about saving mens souls when their bellies are empty URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215300#p215300 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Violinist, (and indeed anyone else in this topic), might I suggest you make it clear to whom your remarks are being addressed. I take it your above statements were directed at blindncool, however I am not certain and several other people hear have expressed different opinions with similar concepts. To save any confusion and anyone getting on the offended horse perhaps clarity would be helpful. As to your actual points, for all that I am as I said an agnostic about the question of the goodness of god (and no, telling me repeatedly about a much translated and debated historical text detailing events 2000 years ago in Judea wont help, sinse my doubting of Gods goodness has nothing to do with sins), I do agree completely about the practical goodness of christians enspired by faith. William Booth, The founder of the Salvation Army was actually born in Nottingham where my parents live, and a couple of weeks ago I toured his birthplace with my dad which has been restored as a museum, both a complete mockup of an early 19th century home (interesting to see something roughly middle class and neither completely poor nor amazingly rich), but also there was a lot about Booths philosophy an practice, and whatever doubts I have about the benificence of a supreme being I cant deny how much practical good organizations like the sally army do in the world. Indeed, its interesting that Booth first was interested in political and social reforms, particularly given that Nottingham had huge employment and poverty problems due to the lace industry falling off and factory owners either laying off workers or employing them at such a low wage they couldnt even afford to buy enough food, which lead to riots and a lot of unrest. This is why William Booth famously said How do you go about saving mens souls when their bellies are empty and why the Sally Army has always been as much about helping those in need as it has about the preaching. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215300#p215300 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers Hmm, Rather interesting. I believe dark is correct--I wonder who is trying to parent here--I havent seen anyone here trying to tell others how they should do stuff. *me thinks theres some interpretation issues... Anyways, were all writing in the same way here, even poster #29--all expressing opinion of some sort. However the poster who wrote post 29 seemed to be the first to take things to a personal attacking level. Then again, though, there are always those who misunderstand what the general public is talking about. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215304#p215304 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers Some thoughts here.Have you considered the possibility that Hitler was in fact God, that the evils perpetrated by him and his regime were an object lesson to a fallen humanity? For someone who appears to put as much reliance on Gods goodness, this shouldnt be a hard stretch.Does truth contradict itself? What does this question even mean? You assert that two contradictory things cannot be true, then asserting for no other reason than your own belief that one thing is true. Many of us do not look on the Bible (which Bible by the way?) as inerrant truth, so its not a valid source for asserting truth in a discussion with people who do not share your belief. That would be a very small god who only had one way to him, no matter what a book says about it.Finally, as a recently baptized Christian myself, let me advise you to stop talking about the goodness of the lord. It is ineffective and often offensive. I w as not brought to church by sermonizing, but by watching good people do good things out of the ordinary and recognizing that their faith was part of why they did them. My eternal well being is my own affair and Gods, and Id appreciate it if yall would stop using public spaces to parent me and others you find to be unbelievers. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215296#p215296 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Greetings severestormsteve1.3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.I dont disagree with you regarding the verses needin g to be looked at closer for they do indeed show us that we depend on Lord Jehovah not that we are God. What happens however when you power-hungry people together vying for the top spot? Did not the great Lucifer himself try to overthrow Lord Jehovah as God of all? Certainly he did and man followed suit. Take any verse out of context and you can make it say whatever you want to. Give someone your favour and more often than not, they will betray you in the worse way possible; even rejecting/denying your very existence. Lord Jehovah favoured Lucifer and Lucifer fought and was cast out of heaven. Lord Jehovah favoured Adam and Eve; first Eve then Adam betrayed Lord Jehovah. However, they did so I believe out of curiosity and because they were tempted. Tell a small child not to play with fire or breakable objects and I bet theyll do so because lets do what Mommy and Daddy told us not to because its exciting. I dont truly believe they intentionally set out to break Lord Jehovahs commandment to not eat of the tree of knowledge. The ye shall be as gods is certainly a powerful tool of temptation; who wouldnt want to have the same knowledge as Lord Jehovah? Imagine what you could do with that knowledge if you had it? Although you wouldnt be God, you could certainly set yourself up as a dictator and enforce the rule that all must address you as Lord God or my creator/destroyer.22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.To sum up, even though man is not God, many believe that they are God and no matter what others will say, it wont make any difference. Do I myself believe that I am God? I certainly believe that I as ar e all of us are one therefore of Lord Jehovah God or should I say created by Lord Jehovah. Id even go so far as to say that I as are all of us are divine sparks, Id even go so far as to say that were godlings; belonging to the same spiritual family. However, I cannot in truth believe that I am God due to the fact that I do not have the power to create out of nothing; I have to have something to create with be it material components or even thoughts to create music but it must be something. Builders need bricks, painters need canvas and paint; bakers need flour; bards need imagination; spirits need willpower but Lord Jehovah creates out of nothing.Kind regards, Amin Abdullah. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215235#p215235 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi Dark, again.I said this in my previous post, and Ill say it again. If the secret was known from all jews, from all Israelites, many of them would not agree with it. + they would even protest for engaging them in these kinds of activities.What Id like to say is that no matter which religion everybody is part of, we all differ from each other. Even if you gather five muslims catholics or whatever, and decide to talk about an issue, all of them would probably give a different opinion from others.Politicians and governments play a very important role in what we feel about a country, especially during the conflicts or wars.Ill give a short example about my country.Albania is divided in two countries, which are both independent. So only governments and the politic border make the difference. We speak the same languages, and there are even the same traditions found here.you might have heard about Kosovo, which is a state which bec ame independent in 2007, after fighting for years with Serbia. Many people in Kosovo were killed, slaughtered and even burned alive, no matter children, women, elders and young men. They didnt respect the laws of war. During the war, thousands of people left the country to rescue from the evil war taking place.In this case, the hatred was in its highest peak, everywhere where Albanian people were living. Everyone in our country started to hate Serbia at that time, but I had the opinion that not all Serbians were the same. I think the propaganda used to cause the solgers to make the nastiest things never seen and thought before.When one of my teachers went to Belgrade, (The capital of Serbia), she told me they were warmly welcomed and respected. She continued saying that as long as they stayed there, nothing had to do with war, hatred or any other discussion concerning nationalities. But she was an Albanian, wasnt she?So I think you understand my p oint now.Ive read a lot about protocol, not only from Wikipedia but even from other sites. and I undoubtedly can say that it does already exist, although Im a little confused. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215172#p215172 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers It should also be known that the reason that Christ came down and sacrificed himself for our sins was for those curious people. God knew that humanity had a sinful nature, which is why he is such a merciful god. No one can be perfect, no one iss completely innocent, not even the little children who break rules out of curiosity because, after all, the rules were broken and their parents were not honored. God doesnt expect perfection out of us; but if you are saved by the blood of Jesus, your soul is washed clean. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215262#p215262 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im a little confused what you mean about biases against countries and racial hatred or what your point is regarding Kosovo, indeed the fact that such awful things were going on in Kosovo (a fact I remember myself sinse with the British army doing relief work over there we heard a lot about the various massacres etc), and yet this teacher of yours didnt see any evidence at the time should tell you how easy it is for the controlling government of a country to cover up nasty activities.The evidence for the holocaust is not some sort of rumour, it is not a set of news paper reports, it is a massive collection of different things from the accounts of people who were really there (some of whom as I said I have had the privilige to meet), as well as even the testimonies of some guards, to clear evidence of the nazi governments activities, to the physical evidence of the camps themselves which came to light during the end of the second world war and the re treat of the Nazi forces, it is likely that indeed had the war continued or had some sort of accord been reached whereby the Nazis were allowed to keep most of the teretory they controlled, the full extent of the horrors of the holocaust would not have come to light, but obviously that is not how history went.As to the Protocol of Zion, I think you missunderstand what Ive said. I do not disbelieve its existance, or that it was published in 1903, as I said I went and read bits of it from the links on that wikipedia article. What I disbelieve is that it should be taken at face value, sinse if I evaluate it as a peace of writing I find so many glaring errors and obvious attempts at manipulating the expectations of the reader (remember I have studdied philosophy for years, including studying o nazi propergander so this sort of evaluation is something I am familiar with. Plus, a lot of similar satyr, both serious and commic was written at the time, depicting vagu e conspiracies and I did find the arguement mentioned on wikipedia which clearly showed a correspondance betwene the protocol and several deliberately fake and purely commic pamphlets very compelling.Then of course, you cant forget when looking at a historical source such as the Protocol to consider the time in which it was published. In 19th century Russia, there was a huge amount of antisemitic feeling. There had been a number of violent attacks against Jewish communities and in the press of the time specifically racist attacks on jews were common. One Cartoon I remember from a british newspaper for example showed a very thin Jew holding a purse of coins and talking to a chef saying No pork please, we prefer to save our money for buying votes Thus, the idea of Jews as grasping rich people who were just out for money and power and were said to be behind the government was a very popular idea at the time, indeed it is partly out of such beliefs that the Nazis were able to perpetrate the holocaust. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215175#p215175 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, either this is a very complex game, or frankly its not a game at all and just lots of people with different ideas disagreeing. It strikes me a lot of these theories about the zionists, or the Iluminati, or the masons or whoever are trying to rule the world in secret are what Karl Poppa wouldve called unfalsifyable. Poppa was a philosopher of science in the 1930s, and among various other ieas, one he came up with was a major cryticism of a lot of scientific and psudo scientific theories that applies to pretty much any other claime. He says in order to be valid, such theories have to be falsifyable, ie, there have to be circumstances under which a theory is able to be proven false. So for instance this maybe true fact known only to some people that you mention states that the evil world rulers are trying to scare people into belief in aliens to rely upon the governments. If this was true however, then there would logically b e a way for said governments to supposedly protect people from said aliens, and said governments would claime to do so, after all, something very similar (and quite frightening), happened with governments claimes about being able to protect the population in event of a neuclear war during the cold war period (look up the protect and survive video on youtube, its really quitie scary). Governments however do not naturally say hay here is what to do in event of an alien invasion, so rely on us, neither do those people who believe in the existance of aliens encourage others to go to their countrys government for protection (indeed quite the opposite). Therefore the premise that these secret world rulers are trying to scare up fear of aliens to make people rely upon governments seems to be false, sinse fear of aliens does not make people rely upon governments. however, instead of abandoning the idea, you say ah, its a very com plex game and still maintain the belief in the existance of this strange world ruler group despite directly contradictory evidence to this fact Plus a fact some people know doesnt strike me as a %100 relyable source in the first place, indeed the only relyable source you have provided me on this hole thing is the protocol of Zion, which as I have said I find less than convincing for the above reasons.Btw,the doctrin of falsificationism has been leveled as a cryticism of religion, and though I do think it is valid of certain religious arguements such as those in favour of creationism, it does rather fall down in the face of direct religious or spiritual experiences, sinse manifestly the proof for those is in the experiences themselves, and of course, there is more than enough bad science and some other problems with the scientific method to mean taking a scientific explanation as absolute truth is wise either, indeed I think the doctr in of falsificationism applies very much to some of the evolutionary tales of human behaviour and motivation. This is one reason why, even though I am currently rather agnostic on the idea that God gives a dam about humanity, I am not an atheist, nor support scientism (the worship of science). Indeed its quite surprising how many philosophers are agnostics including my tutor for whom I have a great deal of respect, sinse if studdy of philosophy teaches one thing its knowing how much we dont know and when the rules of logic can be applied to an arguement, (as in the cases of history), and when said logic fails. This is why while I severely doubt the hole world conspiracy thing, on matters such as the existance of spirits or angels, or personal encounters with devine or even demonic beings Im not prepared to judge. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215237#p215237 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Ahmad, your exactly right. there really is no need to invent shadowy organizations who bennifit from the way the world is and try to influence governments, politics, new technology and the fate of entire countries just for their own bennifit.For example it is a plane historical fact that the technology for mobile phones existed way back in the early 80s, butbroadcasting and telephone companies subpressed the information and bought out the patants from the inventors until they could put in place legal safeguards and a network system for charging for phone calls as they did with calls on lands lines.Similar things happen with electric cars, alternative energy sources etc, not to mention all the glorious history of tax dodging, and inducements or streight out bribes to governments at both a local and national level to expand business interests. There was a famous case last year when here in the Uk it was revealed that several companies such as starbux actu ally owed the government 15 million pounds in tax that theyd managed to avoid through accounting loop holes, were they ccharged for it however? Were they heck! As I said, there are your world rulers. As to the free masons, well Ive actually met a couple, sinse a good friend of my dads was one, apparently he at one time offered to sponser my dad for membership, I also ran into one in a museum who was explaining about masonic traditions. To be honest, people have all these crazy theories about the masons, but really its just essentially a mens club with some special traditions and a bit of history, mostly what they do from what my friend said was get together of an evening, have a chat and a good meal and a drink and play pool, as well as organize charity events a little like the rotery club. The only major things that are odd is that they have their own set of club traditions, which have a few religious overtones (I know f or example they refer to God as the great architect), and that rather than just joining by walking in, you need to be sponsered by another member. Now of course, sinse most of their practices are only revealed to members you cant be %100 sure, they may have an alien spaceship in there, but just going on occams rasa the idea that theyre up to anything synister seems fairly unlikely, its sort of like believing your local mens golf club are plotting world domination! .Btw, for those who dont know Occams rasa was a principle come up with by a British Academic called William of Occam in I believe the 15th century. The principle is basically not to multiply entities, that is until you have more information do not multiply entities to achieve an explanation. Thus, if a book falls off a shelf, its better to assume that the book wasn t properly placed than that an invisible monster pushed it off. this certainly doesnt preclude religion (especially in matter of religious experiences), or for that matter spiritual or paranormal experiences with no readily available explanation, but it is a useful principle to apply to in cases like that of the protocol of zion and other things associated with conspiracy theories. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215192#p215192 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi all. Ive watched a few documentaries talking about the Free masons.all I know is that their a group of people from different religions. However, Im not sure what their aiming for.Ive heard that their connected to the iluminati although, i highly doubt that the iluminati exists anyways.I do believe though that there is a group of people who benefit from whats happening in the world right now.as dark said, their are organizations who try to interfere and choose how to run this world for their own business.regards.Ahmad. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215188#p215188 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
2015-05-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers Hello Blindncool and others,this is a deep topic. I have a few words on this matter. Some of it might seem like it but Im not trying to preech.1. Does truth contredict itself? as you said, the answer is no, no matter what anyone believes. While several points of truth come close to opposing one another, the fact of the matter is they connect in some way--and if there is complete opposition, one or both of those points must be a lie.2. How, if we are divine, could our mere ignorant self so easily override our divine goodness?Well lets put it this way. I agree with the poster who said you shouldnt assume devinity means goodness--it certainly doesnt. However, the point of our mere ignorence is interesting. This poses this question: if we are ignorent to any part of the world upon which we dwell, if we are ignorent to any part of ourselves, and both seem quite evident among people, then how can we be god of ours elves, let alone the world? Ive never really heard of this new age movement, but it definitely has large loopholes, and Id certainly not fall for it. For Jesus Christ is my lord, and the bible is where I gain my wisdom on these matters. Speaking of which, I would like to revisit post 6, and explain some of the kjv verses herein.Genesis 1.26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. If this contributes to the belief that Humanity is our own god, then a lot of reading needs to be done. We are made in image, but we were not made to be god. God made us, not to be him, but to be in his image, and to tend to the earth. He made us to share his love with. Uss having dominion over earth and everything on it means that we are above it all. However, god never said us to have dominion over god.Genesis 2.7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. This proves that we depend on god more than it proves that we are god. Eve, then Adam, ate of the tree, and now, there is death all over the world and there has been. There is conflict, evil, death, and distruction. and if Humanity is our own god, then we certainly, are, not, doing, a, good, job of it. to the poster who said that Jesus couldnt possibly be the son of God, please let me tell you why I believe Jesus is the son of go d. The bible tells me that. There were many people who asked Jesus, even while he was on the cross, why he wouldnt just save himself. He loves us so much, so so much, that he didnt do that, all so that he could redeem whosoever would believe on him through faith, and give us eternal life. God gives us the free will to love him if we want, to believe if we want, but you can, most certainly tell him a flat out no.for me, I choose to believe, because that is what I see as truth. There are other religions, other supposed groups and stuff, and people believe what they believe. I will not argue the existance of such factions, as I feel Ive clearly expressed my position and that others have expressed theirs. However, this is why I am not a new ager URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215195#p215195 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @DarkThere’s another may be fake may be true fact which was kept hidden or was known only from some people.It is about the existence of aliens and UFOs which is said to be a way to engage terror on the earth so as the people may rely more on their governments.The point is, if we are being told by some pseudoscientists and researchers that a kind of being, more intelligent, powerful, with some flying disks will come to earth and destroy us, most of the people will hope that their governments with the national and international armies will protect their citizens from these dangerous beings. So citizens can easily believe what their representatives say. Although every government, Nasa, and every company which specializes in science and makes researches, do not report that there are no aliens anywhere, and that nothing can prove that they once had visited the earth. On the other hand, some other individual, regarded figures worldwide keep saying that the aliens exist and there’s so much evidence behind it, by showing us some pictures showing some disks, with strange lights, coming and disappearing very quickly, almost unable to see them.This definitely sounds a very complex game. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215198#p215198 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim you seem to have made a few assumptions about the holocaust which arent correct, and perhaps clearing up some of this will help with your confusion. Firstly, the figure of six million dead is counting everyone who was killed in Hitlers final solution. The solution itself was implemented in 1940, and went on for the next five years. It certainly is true that not everyone killed was Jewish, sinse as you said yourself many slavs, disabled people, gypsies etc also died, however the vast majority were jewish. Also, on the population angle, you would be correct that six million would be an entirely ridiculous figure just for Germany, but remember that during the war Hitlers forces captured a huge amount of teretory. The six million figure is taken from people killed in Poland, The netherlands, France, Italy, Belgium, Hungary and many other parts of mainland europe apart from Germany itself. As to how so many people died, well the shear effic iency of the process is one of the most terrifying things about the Holocaust. In the larger camps such as Dachau and Auschwitz people were forced into gas chambers two thousand or so at a time, there are even reports that babies and young children were thrown ontop of the crowd but were unable to reach the floor so many people were crushed into small spaces. The gas imployed killed in roughly ten minutes, and the bodies were then dragged out by workers at the camps (usually inmates themselves), and dropped into fires.At this sort of ratio you could easily kill ten thousand people a day, which would be 7 a week, and of course dont forget that though we hear chiefly about the major camps like Dachau, Trablinka, and Auschwitz, many smaller ones existed too. The death toll really is one of the indisputable parts of the holocaust, particularly sinse the nazis were a very efficient government and listed everything in very rigorous detail, even down to the calculations stating how many people could be killed more efficiently with gas than via firing squad given the cost of producing bullits. In a way Im glad this discussion is disturbing Afrim, sinse a person who is not disturbed by reports of the holocaust is someone I would not wish to be associated with. As to the Protocol of the Elders of Zion, as I said, looking at it purely as a peace of writing I just dont see the evidence, not from those clear sections of it I read. Its far too easy to sound ambiguous, vague and ominous with no meaning or logic and let the reader fill in the blanks for themselves, this is after all how a huge amount of persuasive tactics work, from fake mediums and psychics to horroscopes. Also, a telling fact I found was that people do not always interpret the protocol of Zion from coming from the same group. Some believe yes, there is some sort of Jewish super secret world counsel, however others attribute the docum ents authorship and influence to the illuminati, the free masons, or even Cthulhu! This ambiguity even of authorship definitely seems suspect to me, sinse one of the clearest principles when analysing any historical source is Occams Rasa, or the idea that the simplest explanation is the best, and in this case theorizing that the document was written, as many other documents at the time were, to specifically portray the evil of the Jews and ensite hatred against them definitely seems a simpler idea than predicating the existance of a jewish secret counsel or indeed the iluminati or any of the other things I mentioned that people attribute to this document. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215078#p215078 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim you seem to have made a few assumptions about the holocaust which arent correct, and perhaps clearing up some of this will help with your confusion. Firstly, the figure of six million dead is counting everyone who was killed in Hitlers final solution. The solution itself was implemented in 1940, and went on for the next five years. It certainly is true that not everyone killed was Jewish, sinse as you said yourself many slavs, disabled people, gypsies etc also died, however the vast majority were jewish. Also, on the population angle, you would be correct that six million would be an entirely ridiculous figure just for Germany, but remember that during the war Hitlers forces captured a huge amount of teretory. The six million figure is taken from people killed in Poland, The netherlands, France, Italy, Belgium, Hungary and many other parts of mainland europe apart from Germany itself. Also yes, many jews did leave europe and go elsewhere to e scape nazi persecution, but that does not contradict the number of people killed.As to how so many people died, well the shear efficiency of the process is one of the most terrifying things about the Holocaust. In the larger camps such as Dachau and Auschwitz people were forced into gas chambers two thousand or so at a time, there are even reports that babies and young children were thrown ontop of the crowd but were unable to reach the floor so many people were crushed into small spaces. The gas imployed killed in roughly ten minutes, and the bodies were then dragged out by workers at the camps (usually inmates themselves), and dropped into fires.At this sort of ratio you could easily kill ten thousand people a day, which would be 7 a week, and of course dont forget that though we hear chiefly about the major camps like Dachau, Trablinka, and Auschwitz, many smaller ones existed too. The death toll really is one of the indisputable parts of the holocaust, particularly sinse the nazis were a very efficient government and listed everything in very rigorous detail, even down to the calculations stating how many people could be killed more efficiently with gas than via firing squad given the cost of producing bullits. In a way Im glad this discussion is disturbing Afrim, sinse a person who is not disturbed by reports of the holocaust is someone I would not wish to be associated with. As to the Protocol of the Elders of Zion, as I said, looking at it purely as a peace of writing I just dont see the evidence, not from those clear sections of it I read. Its far too easy to sound ambiguous, vague and ominous with no meaning or logic and let the reader fill in the blanks for themselves, this is after all how a huge amount of persuasive tactics work, from fake mediums and psychics to horroscopes. Also, a telling fact I found was that people do not always interpret the protocol of Zion fro m coming from the same group. Some believe yes, there is some sort of Jewish super secret world counsel, however others attribute the documents authorship and influence to the illuminati, the free masons, or even Cthulhu! This ambiguity even of authorship definitely seems suspect to me, sinse one of the clearest principles when analysing any historical source is Occams Rasa, or the idea that the simplest explanation is the best, and in this case theorizing that the document was written, as many other documents at the time were, to specifically portray the evil of the Jews and ensite hatred against them definitely seems a simpler idea than predicating the existance of a jewish secret counsel or indeed the iluminati or any of the other things I mentioned that people attribute to this document. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215078#p215078 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hello,Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer. Dont take this post as a bad viewpoint or any religious opposition, I will just like to state my opinions.Good and bad, and really ethics is a human creation. If im a chimpenzee, all I want to do is eat, procreate and sleep. Good and evil mostly are concepts that make humans act with social grace. It is like rules, for that if youre not good, you are not helpful to humans, and even may be detremental.My point is, good and evil are not universal. And if there was an extraplanar entity who made everything, I would hesitate to believe it would follow human customs.Just some thoughts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215090#p215090 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers I need to read a lot, both the positive sides and the negative ones, the theory that Iluminati, Fre masons and the protocol exist, and then I may come up with a much clearer answer. If well ever find one.Real jews differ from these groups which are called Iluminati.If every jew person knew about the protocol of the elders of Zion, The secret would be easily spread.So I think the protocol, if exists, is made by a group of jewish people, who are better known as Zionists.Zionists, or sionists are a little different from jews, or real jews, I think. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215087#p215087 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hello,Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer. Dont take this post as a bad viewpoint or any religious opposition, I will just like to state my opinions.Good and bad, and really ethics is a human creation. If im a chimpenzee, all I want to do is eat, procreate and sleep. Good and evil mostly are concepts that make humans act with social grace. It is like rules, for that if youre not good, you are not helpful to humans, and even may be detremental.My point is, good and evil are not univercal. And if there was an extraplanar entity who made everything, I would hesitate to believe it would follow human customs.Just some thoughts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215090#p215090 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Well, I can’t deny the existence of Holocaust, but I think that the number of 6 million people who died in those camps isn’t such true and reliable.I think many jews had been persecuted, and consequently they were led to leave Germany and go in other places, since there are even evidences that many jews families came to my country and were kept and treated well. Many Albanian families even saved and kept them hidden in their homes even when the evil communist regime took over our country so they wouldn’t be persecuted again and again.But I don’t think the whole story is true. Some or many statements which are written in nowadays history books may be changed, or cut off. I can’t really believe that 6 million people were killed there. As you said, there are even other people of other nationalities and races, such as Russians and sllavic people, which were about 2 million in total, + 700,000 gypsies, and maybe thousands of Germans who disagreed with the regime.May the total number of people killed in those camps go to 9 or 10 million?But the whole population of Germany is supposed to be 87 million nowadays.Remember, it’s 1933 to 1939 or 1940 when the war started officially. Let’s say, 10% of population killed? These numbers written in our history books sound a little contradictory.About the protocol of zion, I think that protocol exists and the fact is that most of the activities described in that protocol are occurring day after day, year after year. Although the dates are not written exactly, there might not be any dates defined in the protocol either, like 2001, 2003 or 1945 for example. Their plans, (if really exist), might go wrong and they feel like organizing their plans whenever they feel it optimal to do.If once in my life I had time to read a 400 book page, I would do it pleasurably, especially this one, just for my strong curiosity, but I guess this book is not found here.Anyway I’m getting tired of these opinions and thoughts, and the whole protocol of zion itself. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215074#p215074 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, I am glad you dont believe all Jews have these synister motivations, however the protocol does exist, as I said I went and read parts of it, it was published in russia in 1903, (go and check the wikipedia link I posted above, and follow some of the external links from there if you want to read some of it). The issue is whether the document really shows some sort of secret plot, or is just a generalized attempt to discredit Jews and fuel persecution. Throughout history one group or nation has been very good at claiming another is engaged in some sort of synister or immoral activity just to discreddit them and make their persecution have moral force, it was done with the Scots during the jacobite rebelion in the 18th century, it was done with the Irish, and of course the Germans got a huge amount of additional nasty motives attached to them during both world wars. Also, to be brutally honest I find the idea of a secret world plan by some shaddowy organiza tion actually quite amusing given the state of the world were in anyway. We already have massive organizations with ridiculous amounts of power who interfere in the basic running of countries and governments for their own reasons, those are called multinational coorporations and the world trade organization. For example I have seen the memo from Shell oil which proposed dumping of toxic waste in third world countries. You dont need to inventt! these sorts of things, they already exist, indeed to be honest Id be a lot happier if the illuminati, or the zionists, or the martian tentacle rabbit robot revival front was! secretly in charge, sinse hay they couldnt cause less chaos than the everyone for prophet setup we have currently. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215095#p215095 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared had some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. Btw, I am a member of beth Shalom, the British holocaust rememberance society, hence why I have seen a great deal of information on the Shoa (and lets just say it isnt pretty).I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it see ms implausable. My first reaction to hearing about the world trade center was That sounds like something from a James bond novel, I cant believe it really happened but it is the fact that it happened which is why we call it history and why studdying it is important, to hopefully make sure it doesnt happen again.If you want a detailed description of how the nazies were able to kill six million people, well lets just say very efficient use of sionide gas produced in easily usable capsules, and cramming people into sealed gas chambers in the hundreds every half hour for twelve hours a day, (the specifics are less than pleasant).And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Armenian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war have been classified as a holocaust. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared had some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it beggers belief but that is why we call it history and why studdying it is important. And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Arm enian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war have been classified as a holocaust for similar reasons. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared had some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. Btw, I am a member of beth Shalom, the British holocaust rememberance society, hence why I have seen a great deal of information on the Shoa (and lets just say it isnt pretty).I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it see ms implausable. My first reaction to hearing about the world trade center was That sounds like something from a James bond novel, I cant believe it really happened but it is the fact that it happened which is why we call it history and why studdying it is important, to hopefully make sure it doesnt happen again.If you want a detailed description of how the nazies were able to kill six million people, well lets just say very efficient use of sionide gas produced in easily usable capsules, and cramming people into sealed gas chambers in the hundreds every half hour for twelve hours a day, (the specifics are less than pleasant).Then dont forget that other dictators in the twentieth century have killed as many if not more people, such as Pol Pot in Cambodia.And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Armenian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war have been classified as a holocaust. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared due to some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. Ill never forget the time I saw a small, forthright and otherwise quite tough seeming woman, even though she was in her eighties and the events were obviously sixty years in the past break down completely and ask why shed been the one to survive when she was small and weak with bad eyesight and stronger people than her had been shot or gone to the gas chambers first. That is an experience you really dont forget.Btw, I am a member of beth Shalom, theBritish holocaust rememberance society, hence why I have seen a great deal of information on the Shoa (and lets just say it isnt pretty).I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it seems implausable. My first reaction to hearing about the world trade center was That sounds like something from a James bond novel, I cant believe it really happened but it is the fact that it happened which is why we call it history and why studdying it is important, to hopefully make sure it doesnt happen again.If you want a detailed description of how the nazies were able to kill six million people, well lets just say very efficient use of sionide gas produced in easily usable capsules, and cramming people into sealed gas chambers in the hundreds every half hour for twelve hours a day, (the specifics are less than pleasant).Then dont forget that other dictators in the twentieth century have killed as many if not more people, such as Pol Pot in Cambodia.And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Armenian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war have been classified as a holocaust. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers In short, I agree with dark that to deny the holocaust happened when there is so much clear evidence in front of you is, in fact, somewhat offensive. but I understand that you were simply contributing to discussion Afrim, so no worries... I dont have a lengthy post to write, since its early in the morning... but I think Dark pretty much covered everything I was going to say. As to Jesus being the Son of god, but still being harmed... the bible says that Jesus was fully God, but also fully human... which is not a contradiction as it may sound. If I had more time, I would provide references... but I dont at the moment. Jesus was, indeed, supernatural, and thats exhibitted by all the miracles he performed, and his resurrection which is not only spoken in the Bible, but also other Jewish and Roman historical writings. Again, more to delve deeply into... and in a weird way, the fact that Jesus is god but allowed himself to be beaten, whipped and killed is the pr oof of Gods love for mankind... he couldve saved himself any time. He didnt have to take that punishment... punishment that was meant for us.@blindcool, I echo everything you said in your first post. Bless you, brother! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214941#p214941 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared due to some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. Ill never forget the time I saw a small, forthright and otherwise quite tough seeming woman, even though she was in her eighties and the events were obviously sixty years in the past break down completely and ask why shed been the one to survive when she was small and weak with bad eyesight and stronger people than her had been shot or gone to the gas chambers first. That is an experience you really dont forget.Btw, I am a member of beth Shalom, theBritish holocaust rememberance society, hence why I have seen a great deal of information on the holocaust (and lets just say it isnt pretty).I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it seems implausable. My first reaction to hearing about the world trade center was That sounds like something from a James bond novel, I cant believe it really happened but it is the fact that it happened which is why we call it history and why studdying it is important, to hopefully make sure it doesnt happen again.If you want a detailed description of how the nazies were able to kill six million people, well lets just say very efficient use of sionide gas produced in easily usable capsules, and cra mming people into sealed gas chambers in the hundreds every half hour for twelve hours a day, (the specifics are less than pleasant).Then dont forget that other dictators in the twentieth century have killed as many if not more people, such as Pol Pot in Cambodia.And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Armenian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war have been classified as a holocaust. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared due to some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. Btw, I am a member of beth Shalom, the British holocaust rememberance society, hence why I have seen a great deal of information on the Shoa (and lets just say it isnt pretty).I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it seems implausable. My first reaction to hearing about the world trade center was That sounds like something from a James bond novel, I cant believe it really happened but it is the fact that it happened which is why we call it history and why studdying it is important, to hopefully make sure it doesnt happen again.If you want a detailed description of how the nazies were able to kill six million people, well lets just say very efficient use of sionide gas produced in easily usable capsules, and cramming people into sealed gas chambers in the hundreds every half hour for twelve hours a day, (the specifics are less than pleasant).Then dont forget that other dictators in the twentieth century have killed as many if not more people, such as Pol Pot in Cambodia.And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Armenian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war ha ve been classified as a holocaust. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared had some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it beggers belief, but that is why we call it history and why studdying it is important. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared had some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. Btw, I am a member of beth Shalom, the British holocaust rememberance society, hence why I have seen a great deal of information on the Shoa (and lets just say it isnt pretty).I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it see ms implausabut that is why we call it history and why studdying it is important.If you want a detailed description of how the nazies were able to kill six million people, well lets just say very efficient use of sionide gas produced in easily usable capsules, and cramming people into sealed gas chambers in the hundreds every half hour 24 hours a day.And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Armenian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war have been classified as a holocaust for similar reasons. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Afrim, Im afraid this idea that the shoa (holocaust), did not happen, and that six million jews disappeared had some sort of weerd conspiracy I find not just implausable but rather offensive, given the amount of shear suffering involved.On a historical level the amount of evidence is over whelming (not the least being the fact that six million people died), also, after myself meeting some of those few people who survived the camps and hearing their stories there is just physically no way you can fake that sort of reaction. Btw, I am a member of beth Shalom, the British holocaust rememberance society, hence why I have seen a great deal of information on the Shoa (and lets just say it isnt pretty).I will agree that the shear scale, the very factory efficiency of the thing does rather boggle belief, but so does the idea of dropping an atomic bomb on a Japanese city, or flying jet planes into sky scrapers, sometimes history is so monstrous it see ms implausabut that is why we call it history and why studdying it is important.If you want a detailed description of how the nazies were able to kill six million people, well lets just say very efficient use of sionide gas produced in easily usable capsules, and cramming people into sealed gas chambers in the hundreds every half hour for twelve hours a day.And after all, racial perges are not new, indeed recently the deaths of several hundred thousand Armenian muslims at the hands of the Russians in the first world war have been classified as a holocaust for similar reasons. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214933#p214933 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Blindncool, you certainly raise some interesting questions in your post, but I think it must be pointed out that you make some assumptions which may or may not be true.In your first question you ask, if we are all god why do people act so badly? My problem with that kind of question is that it first assumes that god or a divine being has to be good in the first place. There is no reason to think that is the case, or that if we were all gods that we would all gravitate towards your definition of good. That of course begs the question of what is good anyway?As to your second question about if we are all divine how could our ignorance override our divinity. That is a little easier to explain. Although, I do think it still begs the question about divine goodness.In Hinduism, as I understand it, we have all lost contact with our divinity, become human and lost touch with the divine mind, and thus are born ignorant of our divinity. Therefore have to relearn who we are and what we were before becoming human. That doesnt necessarily directly answer your question, but put simply we forgot who and what we are according to some religious beliefs. Therefore behave the way we do based on ignorance.As for the subject of truth in my opinion absolute truth does not contradict itself. It can not contradict itself or it would not be true. However, just because someone believes something to be true does not necessarily make it so.To give you an example you brought up the point that the new age movement and Christians disagree over the issue if there is more than one way to God or only one way to God. The thing is both of those are beliefs. It is entirely possible that both beliefs are completely false. There may not actually be a God thus rendering both beliefs invalid. Therefore each of them may think they possess the truth but neither one could be right.@Afrim, I do take your point as to why you believe Jesus was not the son of God, but you are overlooking the fact that many Christians believe that he chose to give up his life for their sins. While he may have been a supernatural being, as well as a human he chose to allow them to beat him, to allow them to whip him, and eventually crucify him for a greater good. So even if Jesus really was what the bible says he was his decision to allow himself to be beaten and killed makes your argument that humans could not do it invalid since he apparently made no attempt at resistance.In short, your entire premise is based on the assumption that Jesus was going to offer up resistance to them beating him and crucifying him. However, if Jesus had no desire to offer resistance then all the power in the universe is meaningless. Im not saying he was or wasnt the son of God, but if he chose to die for our sins as the Christians believe then it does make sense why a supernatural being could be harmed by humans. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=215035#p215035 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Greetings blindncool.I could be wrong in what Im about to say but this is my understanding of the situation. You want to know why so many people believe in the thou art God theory but Christianity states that it is wrong. For the time being, lets look to the bible for our first quotes. I could be miss-quoting so feel free to correct me if thats so. The quotes are taken from The book of Genesis King James Version (KJV). Ill put all the verses in a second post to make this one shorter but it explains why especially today people believe so strongly in the new age movement.Genesis 1.26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.Genesis 2.7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed i nto his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.Genesis 3.3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.20 And Adam called his wifes name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.So, what are we seeing here? God created far more people than Adam and Eve but those that came from Adam and Eve were of the favoured line Before they succumbed to sin, they ruled over this planet. Before the confrontation. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers For the record had I believed Afrims claime about the holocaust was deliberately made in an attempt to cause offense I wouldve issued a moderation warning, however the reason I didnt is because I agree with Assault freak, that it was a contribution to the discussion. when I say I find the view offensive I mean it in the sense that I find the streight off denile of such a huge amount of human suffering and the assumption of some sort of wide spread conspiracy instead offensive, the way that I find offensive the views of those who claime that the world trade center disaster was organized by the American government specifically to have an excuse to invade the middle east, (and yes, I have heard this view as well). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214944#p214944 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Genesis 1.26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.Genesis 2.7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest t hereof thou shalt surely die.18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.Genesis 3.3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat , and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.14 And the Lo rd God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:15 And I
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi there.FYI, the protocol of Zion is a lie. it was written by the Russians back in 1903.regards.Ahmad. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214961#p214961 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers @Ryok thanks for that information on the protocol of Zion.I know Hitler began constructing camps for what were demed political disidents in 1936, to prvent what he saw as various conspiracies against the Nazi party, but I always assumed this was pretty much just generalized paranoyer rather than anything specific. After all Hitler directly attributed the war with Britain to a pro jewish conspiracy, indeed hitler pretty much attributed anything that went wrong to a pro Jewish conspiracy, spilt my tea? guess whos fault that was! .While Hitler was undoubtedly in many ways a brilliant leader, sanity wasnt exactly his strong suit . URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214968#p214968 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Hi,I am a Muslim and I believe in the God, rather than the religion itself. My opinion about religions is that they’re just the interpretation of the words of God.I courage you to believe in God, since it’s a good way to gain a spiritual quietness and kindness.The concept of creating your own truth and reality comes as a result of the level of your consciousness. The brighter think you are, the more powerful-minded you’ll be.I’ve read, exactly I’ve heard from some friends and probably some priests in some religious broadcasts that in Christianism, Jesus is regarded as the son of god.I myself as a person do not agree with this, because, if he’s the son of god, he’ll have exactly the same characteristics as god does. Supernatural, powerful, and extremely brighter than we might ever thought. But he was wounded, wasn’t he? So how could we, these people, the creatures of him injure a supernatural being. He was supernatural, which means that he couldn’t be harmed, he would avoid all that stuff described in book, because he was the son of god.Just think about what I’ll say. Do you have similarities to your father or grandfather? Don’t you have almost, an identical genetic formation?So you resemble your father, and you have almost the same characteristics. Wasn’t it the same for Jesus?I’m sorry if you got offended or I caused to you any unpleasant opinion. We are just discussing.About the eternal existence or being, as you said, I don’t think this is practically and theoretically possible, because our biological formation won’t allow this. We may live a long life, even 100 years or more, but our cells and our organism will run out and the power of it will end as well, and we will die soon.What you’re being told about Hitler isn’t such true. I wonder how could he kill in a few years 6 million Jews, there are even countries whose population is no more than 6 million people. But what is true is that jews, for believing in some strange and supreme theories were sent to some camps, which indeed, had nothing to do with large ovens where jews were burned, or gass chambers where jews would die in a few minutes, even in large numbers.If you ever read about the protocol of Zion, made by the elders of jews, you’ll realize why Hitler sent jews to some special camps, simply not to emit their tendencies for leading the world, and to lead in a world government, which is being seen clearly nowadays.That’s the truth, the truth which is not read in books, because if it was, more and more people would continuously turn their nose up.Again, sorry for causing any offence or controversial opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214929#p214929 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers About the document I cant say not having read it or heard of it before, though to be honest I am suspicious of such a tenuous explanation as Russians translated it because it was given by some random relation of the author of some secret plot bit, though I will go and see what I can find out for the sake of fareness. however if were talking clear evidence the amount of history involved is frankly overwhelming from multiple accounts not only the survivers of the camps both Jewish and otherwise, (sinse remember it wasnt just the Jews who died but also collaborators and other people of so called lesser races such as gypsies), though the surviver stories are as Ive said the most personally gutwrenching). There is also a huge amount of documentation at all levels of German government, from the initial orders Hitler gave in the setup of the camps to the basic day to day running orders of those who commanded them such as requisition lists o r transfer orders, to the direct accounts of Germans who worked in the camps, as well as the soldiers of many allied nations who liberated them. Then, there is the physical evidence, sinse all those camps didnt just vanish and there are massive numbers of artifacts still around, indeed you can still visit various camps and see the buildings where everything takes place, (I havent done this myself,but Ive heard its a pretty harrowing experience).And of course the biggest bit, is where did six million people disappear to? these were people known to many others, were members of well known communities, heck my Italian teacher who is herself over 70 told me quite casually that as a child the various JEwish families of her town were cooperatively hidden by the inhabitants, including Jewish children she went to school with, and despite being about 10 at the time she was quite aware how important keeping this information secret was.de nying the existance of the holocaust is a little like denying the existance of the second world war itself.I dont say this to piss anyone offf, but simply because with everything I have studdied, from documents to as I said personally meeting survivers of the holocaust, not to mention the work of many many historians far more qualified than I am, denial of such a major historical event just seems plane ridiculous, almost up there with believing in a flat earthh. I also confess I am rather worried about the motivations behind such beliefs, sinse starting to accuse one group of people of secretly trying to run the world for their own bennifit and engaged in massive cover up operations to attain that bennifit is getting dangerously close to racist teretory, and certainly the Jewish friends I have seem no more likely to be part of a world running conspiracy than the muslim, christian, or for that matter atheist ones do. Besides, why do we need to invent a world running conspiracy when it is already completely and openly stated that the world is run by mega coorporations .Edit: okay I looked up some informatioon on the Protocols of Zion, starting with Wikipedia and it seems there is both very good textual evidence for the idea that it was plagerised from several earlier sources, and also that it was written in such completely general terms as to pretty much cover every eventuality, for example sighting the need to control wealth and control tyrants and thus making it appear to predict the control of either a capitalistic state or a comunistic dictatorship. Also, it struck me when I followed the links to some quoted sections of the document (which I did sinse I do know wikipedia isnt always reliable and I did want to be fare), that while it threatens to put plans into action, there are neither dates, nor times, this combined with generality gives it a very distinct quality of being predictive while in effect predicting nothing and is actually quite a clever writing trick used by those who write things like horoscopes.For instance, if I tell you We will reshape the government to our own design, so that our agents will prosper, then when we have absolute control we will reveal ourselves I havent actually told you anything. Every country in the world has a government that changes at some point, whether through elections, wars, coups etc, and under every government there are those who prosper. Sinse i have used the none specific our agents anyone who prospers and ganes power under a given change in government could potentially be part of my world domination organization, also sinse I have not set any specific criteria for when we reveal ourselves I h ave made no distinct predictions or promises that must be kept, and yet Ive given the idea that my organization is very close to ruling the world. No, I have not read all 400 odd pages of the protocol of zion, but from what I gathered its very much this type of thing, so I am afraid have to conclude that it must be a rather cleverr fake. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers About the document I cant say not having read it or heard of it before, though to be honest I am suspicious of such a tenuous explanation as Russians translated it because it was given by some random relation of the author of some secret plot bit, though I will go and see what I can find out for the sake of fareness. however if were talking clear evidence the amount of history involved is frankly overwhelming from multiple accounts not only the survivers of the camps both Jewish and otherwise, (sinse remember it wasnt just the Jews who died but also collaborators and other people of so called lesser races such as gypsies), though the surviver stories are as Ive said the most personally gutwrenching). There is also a huge amount of documentation at all levels of German government, from the initial orders Hitler gave in the setup of the camps to the basic day to day running orders of those who commanded them such as requisition lists o r transfer orders, to the direct accounts of Germans who worked in the camps, as well as the soldiers of many allied nations who liberated them. Then, there is the physical evidence, sinse all those camps didnt just vanish and there are massive numbers of artifacts still around, indeed you can still visit various camps and see the buildings where everything takes place, (I havent done this myself,but Ive heard its a pretty harrowing experience).And of course the biggest bit, is where did six million people disappear to? these were people known to many others, were members of well known communities, heck my Italian teacher who is herself over 70 told me quite casually that as a child the various JEwish families of her town were cooperatively hidden by the inhabitants, including Jewish children she went to school with, and despite being about 10 at the time she was quite aware how important keeping this information secret was.de nying the existance of the holocaust is a little like denying the existance of the second world war itself.I dont say this to piss anyone offf, but simply because with everything I have studdied, from documents to as I said personally meeting survivers of the holocaust, not to mention the work of many many historians far more qualified than I am, denial of such a major historical event just seems plane ridiculous, almost up there with believing in a flat earthh. I also confess I am rather worried about the motivations behind such beliefs, sinse starting to accuse one group of people of secretly trying to run the world for their own bennifit and engaged in massive cover up operations to attain that bennifit is getting dangerously close to racist teretory, and certainly the Jewish friends I have seem no more likely to be part of a world running conspiracy than the muslim, christian, or for that matter atheist ones do. Besides, why do we need to invent a world running conspiracy when it is already completely and openly stated that the world is run by mega coorporations .Edit: okay I looked up some informatioon on the Protocols of Zion, starting with Wikipedia and it seems there is both very good textual evidence for the idea that it was plagerised from several earlier sources, and also that it was written in such completely general terms as to pretty much cover every eventuality, for example sighting the need to control wealth and control tyrants and thus making it appear to predict the control of either a capitalistic state or a comunistic dictatorship. Also, it struck me when I followed the links to some quoted sections of the document, that while it threatens to put plans into action, there are neither dates, nor times, th is combined with generality gives it a very distinct quality of being predictive while in effect predicting nothing and is actually quite a clever writing trick used by those who write things like horoscopes.For instance, if I tell you We will reshape the government to our own design, so that our agents will prosper, then when we have absolute control we will reveal ourselves I havent actually told you anything. Every country in the world has a government that changes at some point, whether through elections, wars, coups etc, and under every government there are those who prosper. Sinse i have used the none specific our agents anyone who prospers and ganes power under a given change in government could potentially be part of my world domination organization, also sinse I have not set any specific criteria for when we reveal ourselves I have made no distinct predictions or promises that must be kept, and yet Ive given the idea th at my organization is very close to ruling the world. No, I have not read all 400 odd pages of the protocol of zion, but from what I gathered its very much this type of thing, so I am afraid have to conclude that it must be a rather clever fake. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214978#p214978
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers About the document I cant say not having read it or heard of it before, though to be honest I am suspicious of such a tenuous explanation as Russians translated it because it was given by some random relation of the author of some secret plot bit, though I will go and see what I can find out for the sake of fareness. however if were talking clear evidence the amount of history involved is frankly overwhelming from multiple accounts not only the survivers of the camps both Jewish and otherwise, (sinse remember it wasnt just the Jews who died but also collaborators and other people of so called lesser races such as gypsies), though the surviver stories are as Ive said the most personally gutwrenching). There is also a huge amount of documentation at all levels of German government, from the initial orders Hitler gave in the setup of the camps to the basic day to day running orders of those who commanded them such as requisition lists o r transfer orders, to the direct accounts of Germans who worked in the camps, as well as the soldiers of many allied nations who liberated them. Then, there is the physical evidence, sinse all those camps didnt just vanish and there are massive numbers of artifacts still around, indeed you can still visit various camps and see the buildings where everything takes place, (I havent done this myself,but Ive heard its a pretty harrowing experience).And of course the biggest bit, is where did six million people disappear to? these were people known to many others, were members of well known communities, heck my Italian teacher who is herself over 70 told me quite casually that as a child the various JEwish families of her town were cooperatively hidden by the inhabitants, including Jewish children she went to school with, and despite being about 10 at the time she was quite aware how important keeping this information secret was.de nying the existance of the holocaust is a little like denying the existance of the second world war itself.I dont say this to piss anyone offf, but simply because with everything I have studdied, from documents to as I said personally meeting survivers of the holocaust, not to mention the work of many many historians far more qualified than I am, denial of such a major historical event just seems plane ridiculous, almost up there with believing in a flat earthh. I also confess I am rather worried about the motivations behind such beliefs, sinse starting to accuse one group of people of secretly trying to run the world for their own bennifit and engaged in massive cover up operations to attain that bennifit is getting dangerously close to racist teretory, and certainly the Jewish friends I have seem no more likely to be part of a world running conspiracy than the muslim, christian, or for that matter atheist ones do. Besides, why do we need to invent a world running conspiracy when it is already completely and openly stated that the world is run by mega coorporations .Edit: okay I looked up some informatioon on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, starting with Wikipedia and it seems there is both very good textual evidence for the idea that it was plagerised from several earlier sources, and also that it was written in such completely general terms as to pretty much cover every eventuality, for example sighting the need to control wealth and control tyrants and thus making it appear to predict the control of either a capitalistic state or a comunistic dictatorship. Also, it struck me when I followed the links to some quoted sections of the document (which I did sinse I do know wikipedia isnt always reliable and I did want to be fare), that while it threatens to put plans into action, there are neither dates, nor times, this combined with generality gives it a very distinct quality of being predictive while in effect predicting nothing and is actually quite a clever writing trick used by those who write things like horoscopes.For instance, if I tell you We will reshape the government to our own design, so that our agents will prosper, then when we have absolute control we will reveal ourselves I havent actually told you anything. Every country in the world has a government that changes at some point, whether through elections, wars, coups etc, and under every government there are those who prosper. Sinse i have used the none specific our agents anyone who prospers and ganes power under a given change in government could potentially be part of my world domination organization, also sinse I have not set any specific criteria for when we reveal ourse lves I have made no distinct predictions or promises that must be kept, and yet Ive given the idea that my organization is very close to ruling the world. No, I have not read all 400 odd pages of the protocol of zion, but from what I gathered its very much this type of thing, so I am afraid have to conclude that it must be a rather cleverr fake. URL: http
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers I unfortunately dont recall in detail everything they said because I was younger at the time, but I also have listened to a couple holocaust survivors tell their stories, and I can say those two accounts alone are all the evidence I need.I follow no religion, though I consider myself neither atheist nor agnostic; Im just a live and let live person. I believe as many do that there is definitely more out there beyond the physical realm, and I try not to dismiss any paranormal experiences I hear of out of hand. I think the whole create your reality thing and the idea that you are your own god are more spiritual metaphors than anything else; I havent looked into the new age movement so dont have much of an opinion there. With Christianity and other religions that rely on faith, being that there are documented psychological changes that take place when the mind chooses to believe in something greater than itself, Im hesitant t o believe that peoples experiences of revelations after being saved are anything but shifts in perspective. I think humanity as a whole has the power to do incredible good if we really want to, and I really dont like the idea that people are all inherently evil; in nature organisms must kill one another simply to survive, so Id say if anything were the exception. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214993#p214993 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers I have never had a place for religion in my life, faith is a thing I have never been able to attain. And in my view interpretation of religious texts has created much of the conflicts which trouble us today. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214991#p214991 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Im sorry Ryok.The protocol of Zion was written from Russians in 1903, because the sister of the author had brought him that Secret document from a jewish person from France or Germany (dont remember exactly the state).There were paid and spent lots of dollars to disappear this document from the memory of people and the surface of the earth, but it still remains, and its translated in many languages.If you read some statements of that protocol, I would like to ask you a question, why are all those activities happening as described in the protocol? Is this probably a coincidence? Again? How many times we should admit things which have happened in this planet and theres been clear evidence that theyve been made by the hand of men as coincidental?This is really pissing me off. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214973#p214973 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers Im sorry Ryok.The protocol of Zion was written from Russians in 1903, because the sister of the author had brought him that Secret document from a jewish person from France or Germany (dont remember exactly the state).There were paid and spent lots of dollars to disappear this document from the memory of people and the surface of the earth forever, but it still remains, and its translated in many languages.If you read some statements of that protocol, I would like to ask you a question, why are all those activities happening as described in the protocol? Is this probably a coincidence? Again? How many times we should admit things which have happened in this planet and theres been clear evidence that theyve been made by the hand of men as coincidental?This is really pissing me off. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214973#p214973 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: to blind new agers
Re: to blind new agers About the document I cant say not having read it or heard of it before, though to be honest I am suspicious of such a tenuous explanation as Russians translated it because it was given by some random relation of the author of some secret plot bit, though I will go and see what I can find out for the sake of fareness. however if were talking clear evidence the amount of history involved is frankly overwhelming from multiple accounts not only the survivers of the camps both Jewish and otherwise, (sinse remember it wasnt just the Jews who died but also collaborators and other people of so called lesser races such as gypsies), though the surviver stories are as Ive said the most personally gutwrenching). There is also a huge amount of documentation at all levels of German government, from the initial orders Hitler gave in the setup of the camps to the basic day to day running orders of those who commanded them such as requisition lists o r transfer orders, to the direct accounts of Germans who worked in the camps, as well as the soldiers of many allied nations who liberated them. Then, there is the physical evidence, sinse all those camps didnt just vanish and there are massive numbers of artifacts still around, indeed you can still visit various camps and see the buildings where everything takes place, (I havent done this myself,but Ive heard its a pretty harrowing experience).And of course the biggest bit, is where did six million people disappear to? these were people known to many others, were members of well known communities, heck my Italian teacher who is herself over 70 told me quite casually that as a child the various JEwish families of her town were cooperatively hidden by the inhabitants, including Jewish children she went to school with, and despite being about 10 at the time she was quite aware how important keeping this information secret was.de nying the existance of the holocaust is a little like denying the existance of the second world war itself.I dont say this to piss anyone offf, but simply because with everything I have studdied, from documents to as I said personally meeting survivers of the holocaust, not to mention the work of many many historians far more qualified than I am, denial of such a major historical event just seems plane ridiculous, almost up there with believing in a flat earthh. I also confess I am rather worried about the motivations behind such beliefs, sinse starting to accuse one group of people of secretly trying to run the world for their own bennifit and engaged in massive cover up operations to attain that bennifit is getting dangerously close to racist teretory, and certainly the Jewish friends I have seem no more likely to be part of a world running conspiracy than the muslim, christian, or for that matter atheist ones do. Besides, why do we need to invent a world running conspiracy when it is already completely and openly stated that the world is run by mega coorporations . URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=214978#p214978 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
