Re: Science Fiction In General
At 05:56 PM 1/30/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: Therefore my statement about King does bear some relevance. Of course he isn't mediocre in the eyes of the masses. But in the eyes of lit junkies, he is. For that matter, purists (English teachers frex) have long considered the entire field of science fiction mediocre (at best). -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:59:33 -0600 - Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > >From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > >Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:31:24 -0600 > > > >- Original Message ----- > >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:24 PM > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > >From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > >Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:24:15 -0600 > > > > > > > >- Original Message - > > > >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:42 AM > > > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > > > > > > > >I've read every King book as they were published over the last 30 > > > >something years. And I chuckle a bit when I read statements like > >this. > > > >Remember Dickens was subject to exactly the same kinds of criticism > > > >you make and so were many books that are now considered "classics". > > > > > > > > > A nice, if not relevant comparison. Don't tell me however that King > >is in > > > the same league as Dickens. > > > >Sure, why not? > >A populist writer who reflects his times quite well, but was often > >lambasted during his life? > >I think you could make lots of comparisons. A lot of contrasts too, > >but that is only natural. > > I speak of his writing ability. Oh? And Dickens is special exacly how? In his time Dickens was not especially respectedexcept by the general public and even then not by all. There were many writers who were thought to be of higher quality than Dickens, after all Dickens was pandering to the public, but the other writers are not as well known today. What about todays standards Robert? Isn't it the general consensus that Dickens is a "great" writer? And the general consensus is really of what I speak. Because that is the closest we subjective beings can come to objectivity. > > > > > > > > >King, like most of us is a child of the television era, and like > >many > > > >of us, grew up watching horror movies. This is strongly reflected > >in > > > >his writing and the smell of matinee popcorn wafts from every page. > > > > > > Pure gold in words. I really like that. > > > > > > >Thanks, I learned how to write while reading Stephen Kings books. > > > > I bet. Speaking of writing, do you? (Fiction that is) > Some here, would tell that is all that I write. (Hi Yall!) Actually we had a little group here writing a sequal to Startide Rising ayear or two ago. Whatever happened to that? I am currently stuck in the middle of a story for the [Janelle] mythos that I can't seem to get to progress. (Its about Brin-L in a parralel world more or less, something that Dr Brin himself actually started..quite by accident ) Do you have anything online? I should truly love to read something if it is available. > > > >Travis, what I find objectionable in the above paragraph is that you > >set yourself up as an objective authority or as a party who has access > >to objective reality. > >You aren't and you don't. > > True. Yet the fact remains that he is indeed "mediocre" in regard to his > writing ability. Unfortunately you cannot make objective statements since you enter with preexisting prejudices. This makes the starting point for your argument a position of weakness. Of course I'm unable to be objective also, but knowing this, I only have to expose your arguments. I don't need to make any claims of my own. Ah but I can. > Let me draw out a little analogy. You are taught in school > that 2 + 2 = 4,
Re: Science Fiction In General
- Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > >From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > >Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:31:24 -0600 > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:24 PM > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > >From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > >Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:24:15 -0600 > > > > > > > >- Original Message - > > > >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:42 AM > > > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > > > > > > > >I've read every King book as they were published over the last 30 > > > >something years. And I chuckle a bit when I read statements like > >this. > > > >Remember Dickens was subject to exactly the same kinds of criticism > > > >you make and so were many books that are now considered "classics". > > > > > > > > > A nice, if not relevant comparison. Don't tell me however that King > >is in > > > the same league as Dickens. > > > >Sure, why not? > >A populist writer who reflects his times quite well, but was often > >lambasted during his life? > >I think you could make lots of comparisons. A lot of contrasts too, > >but that is only natural. > > I speak of his writing ability. Oh? And Dickens is special exacly how? In his time Dickens was not especially respectedexcept by the general public and even then not by all. There were many writers who were thought to be of higher quality than Dickens, after all Dickens was pandering to the public, but the other writers are not as well known today. > > > > > > > > >King, like most of us is a child of the television era, and like > >many > > > >of us, grew up watching horror movies. This is strongly reflected > >in > > > >his writing and the smell of matinee popcorn wafts from every page. > > > > > > Pure gold in words. I really like that. > > > > > > >Thanks, I learned how to write while reading Stephen Kings books. > > > > I bet. Speaking of writing, do you? (Fiction that is) > Some here, would tell that is all that I write. (Hi Yall!) Actually we had a little group here writing a sequal to Startide Rising ayear or two ago. Whatever happened to that? I am currently stuck in the middle of a story for the [Janelle] mythos that I can't seem to get to progress. (Its about Brin-L in a parralel world more or less, something that Dr Brin himself actually started..quite by accident ) > > > > > >I do however judge King > > > himself, and render a verdict of which you already know. And it's > >more than > > > just pure taste or raw opinion. King is without a doubt a mediocre > > > writer.(See actual definition of "mediocre") > > > >Well, you are not in any way judging King "himself", you are judging > >his abilities and qualities as a writer, and that is not in any way > >the same thing. > > You "have me" so to speak, on that score. I never covered my tracks on that > one and deserve the correction. But of course, judging his abilities and > qualities as a writer is what I meant. > > > > >[Here, I take a swipe at Travis, but it is meant only as a criticism > >of the theme he presents and not as an attack of Travis personally or > >his abilities and qualities as a writer] > > Lets agree shall we, that from now on statements like that are not needed > between us (unless otherwise stated!! ), as I find you quite agreeable. Glad the feeling is mutual. Just did'nt want to put you on the defensive, thinking you were being slammed. > > > > >Travis, what I find objectionable in the above paragraph is that you > >set yourself up as an objective authority or
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:31:24 -0600 - Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:24 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > >From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > >Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:24:15 -0600 > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:42 AM > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > >I've read every King book as they were published over the last 30 > >something years. And I chuckle a bit when I read statements like this. > >Remember Dickens was subject to exactly the same kinds of criticism > >you make and so were many books that are now considered "classics". > > > A nice, if not relevant comparison. Don't tell me however that King is in > the same league as Dickens. Sure, why not? A populist writer who reflects his times quite well, but was often lambasted during his life? I think you could make lots of comparisons. A lot of contrasts too, but that is only natural. I speak of his writing ability. > > > >King, like most of us is a child of the television era, and like many > >of us, grew up watching horror movies. This is strongly reflected in > >his writing and the smell of matinee popcorn wafts from every page. > > Pure gold in words. I really like that. > Thanks, I learned how to write while reading Stephen Kings books. I bet. Speaking of writing, do you? (Fiction that is) >I do however judge King > himself, and render a verdict of which you already know. And it's more than > just pure taste or raw opinion. King is without a doubt a mediocre > writer.(See actual definition of "mediocre") Well, you are not in any way judging King "himself", you are judging his abilities and qualities as a writer, and that is not in any way the same thing. You "have me" so to speak, on that score. I never covered my tracks on that one and deserve the correction. But of course, judging his abilities and qualities as a writer is what I meant. [Here, I take a swipe at Travis, but it is meant only as a criticism of the theme he presents and not as an attack of Travis personally or his abilities and qualities as a writer] Lets agree shall we, that from now on statements like that are not needed between us (unless otherwise stated!! ), as I find you quite agreeable. Travis, what I find objectionable in the above paragraph is that you set yourself up as an objective authority or as a party who has access to objective reality. You aren't and you don't. True. Yet the fact remains that he is indeed "mediocre" in regard to his writing ability. Let me draw out a little analogy. You are taught in school that 2 + 2 = 4, and you tell all your friends about it. You are in fact talking about it when along come Travis. Now Travis looks at you and says: "That's not right. You're setting yourself up as an objective authority or as a party who has access to objective reality. You aren't and you don't." Oops. There's the mistake Robert. You see 2 + 2 does in fact equal 4, and to say otherwise is an easy avenue in which to base an argument. But an avenue that's flawed because it denies the truth. Of course I'm not the objective king (pun intended), as it's impossible to be 100% objective, as we humans are subject to exist within the confines of our own little minds, thus rendering us subjective. It's all about perspective really; and when you think about it, perspective is all we have. However, once again we, as humans have to collectively agree upon things. Thus creating truth as we know it. Take language for example. It's an agreed upon set of symbols. It may not be an objective way to convey ideas, but it's the best we have, and we agree (whether consciously or not) to use it and stand by it as a means of communication. The same goes for law, math, what's funny, what's not...blah blah blah.up to and including literature. That's where I base MY argument; in truth, which yes, IS subjective due to individual perspective, but at least it's a unanimously agreed upon principal. -Travis "hope we can keep this up" Edmunds... _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
> Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Robert Seeberger wrote: > > >From: "Damon Agretto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [somebody else wrote:] > > > > So what other writers or books in science > > > >fiction, fantasy, or horror (or > > > > heck, any genre) do people on the list like, > > > > even though they realize > > > > they're not exactly top-notch stuff? > > > For me its the Battletech/Mechwarrior novels, > > >which (like the Star Trek & SW books have various > authors, > > > vary in quality. Since I play the game for well > > >on 20 years I have an intense loyalty to the > franchise. It > > > also happens that the universe is one of the most > > > detailed I've yet encountered... > > Oh! > > So you are one of those who are responsible for > >crowding *real* SciFi off the shelves! > > You oughta be horsewhipped by a really big horse! > > A Clydesdale at the least!!! > Actually, Clydesdales are fairly gentle horses. > Maybe try an Arabian? Hay!!! Don't you go dissing my babies! Besides, they're *much* more likely to _gas_ offenders than bite, kick or stomp them. They also have a certain flair for sarcastic sighs (for you purists who hate anthropomorphizing: they have a remarkable propensity to exhale noisily in a manner which, in a human, would be described as sighing, at precisely the "correct" moment, as if commenting disparagingly on a rider's form, aids, words or some combination thereof) and peculiarly insulting ear-sets. U U Guilty Of Having A Fair Number Of ST And SW Paperbacks Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
William T Goodall wrote: >Lalith Vipulananthan wrote: >>William T Goodall wrote: >>> Terry Goodkind >>I used to, but then I read _Faith Of The Fallen_. There is only so >>much political ranting I can handle in a book, so I didn't bother >>with _The Pillars Of Creation_. >Pillars was a whole lot worse... Pillars was so very, very boring. Naked Empire stunk too; talk about telling the same damn story over and over. But I thought Faith of the Fallen was the best of his books. He should have ended the series right there, but he's not done feasting off of that particular corpse yet I guess. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General
William T Goodall wrote: > Pillars was a whole lot worse... A good friend of mine still reads them and he enjoyed Pillars. Then again, he didn't think there was anything wrong with the Night's Dawn trilogy. I thought it was fun and he thought it deserved a re-read over my recommendation of _Hyperion_ and _The Fall Of Hyperion_. I give up. > > David Gemmell > > Never read. The Parmenion books (_Lion Of Macedon_ and _Dark Prince_) are really good, and are an alternate take on Alexander the Great (well, the second one is. The first sets the scene). Actually, come to think of it, these books are excellent. Gemmell is prolific, and the quality tends to vary. Still, fun to read. The Drenai novels are also quite good. He's never really bettered the first three in the series, though he always seems to have sieges taking place. After the first 5 or 6 times, you wonder if he has no other way of setting up a tense finish. Also, the first two Jon Shannow books are cool (_Wolf In Shadow_ and _Last Sword Of Power_). Set in a post-apocalyptic Earth, where the planet has toppled on its axis and strange, black-veined golden stones that grant people's wishes, the world has reverted back to a level of technology comparable to the Wild West (it's a kind of fantasy Western more than anything). It's 2am and my brain will probably be able to describe this better after some sleep. > > Peter F. Hamilton > > May never read again. I'm obliged to read _Fallen Dragon_ since I bought it. I've ranted at length about the evil that is _Misspent Youth_ but his one, _Pandora's Star_, looks quite interesting, even if he is jumping on the Fermi Paradox explanation bandwagon. > I've only read about five of them. I have no idea what order they are > supposed to be in :) I just like stories where people eat cheese... Right. The first one is present time, the second, third and fourth are prequels, and then the fifth book onwards follows on from the events of the first. Or something like that. Lal GSV The Love Of Stones ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
On 6 Jan 2004, at 12:19 am, Lalith Vipulananthan wrote: William T Goodall wrote: So what other writers or books in science fiction, fantasy, or horror (or heck, any genre) do people on the list like, even though they realize they're not exactly top-notch stuff? Terry Goodkind I used to, but then I read _Faith Of The Fallen_. There is only so much political ranting I can handle in a book, so I didn't bother with _The Pillars Of Creation_. Pillars was a whole lot worse... I'd add to that list: David Gemmell Never read. Peter F. Hamilton May never read again. L E Modesitt I gave up on Modesitt after the 5th Recluce book. It just never seemed to end, though I really liked the first two. I've only read about five of them. I have no idea what order they are supposed to be in :) I just like stories where people eat cheese... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
- Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 6:24 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > >From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > >Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:24:15 -0600 > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:42 AM > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > >I've read every King book as they were published over the last 30 > >something years. And I chuckle a bit when I read statements like this. > >Remember Dickens was subject to exactly the same kinds of criticism > >you make and so were many books that are now considered "classics". > > > A nice, if not relevant comparison. Don't tell me however that King is in > the same league as Dickens. Sure, why not? A populist writer who reflects his times quite well, but was often lambasted during his life? I think you could make lots of comparisons. A lot of contrasts too, but that is only natural. > > > > >King, like most of us is a child of the television era, and like many > >of us, grew up watching horror movies. This is strongly reflected in > >his writing and the smell of matinee popcorn wafts from every page. > > Pure gold in words. I really like that. > Thanks, I learned how to write while reading Stephen Kings books. > > >Most of the complaints concerning Kings writing come from people who > >aren't interested in the subject matter in the first place. "I don't > >really like this stuff, therefore it is inferior to the stuff *I* > >like, and that should be quite obvious to anyone who is not an idiot." > > If I personally, were not interested in the subject matter of Kings' work, I > would not have indulged myself in it in the least. Thats why I qualified the statement with the word "most". I recognise your position. There can be many reasons to like or to not like just about anything, because "liking" is a matter of pure subjectivity. My wife will only read "true crime" type books that feature serial killers, ax weilding maniacs, or dead movie stars. Utter trash in my mind, but it floats her boat. I have to listen to her discourse on the details of the Jeffry McDonald case at least once a month and PeeWee Gaskins is mentioned weekly. But do I claim that Ann Rule is the dregs? I'll give you one guess. > > > >They say there is no accounting for taste. But it is just a fact of > >life that you *do* have to take taste into account. > > > >xponent > >Have I Seemed To Have Been In A Ranting Mood Lately? Maru > >rob > > > > And so I do Robert. I do not judge people who read King (I put in the whole > "people not being bright" thing to elicit a response which worked > wonderfully) as that is a matter of pure taste. H... >I do however judge King > himself, and render a verdict of which you already know. And it's more than > just pure taste or raw opinion. King is without a doubt a mediocre > writer.(See actual definition of "mediocre") Well, you are not in any way judging King "himself", you are judging his abilities and qualities as a writer, and that is not in any way the same thing. [Here, I take a swipe at Travis, but it is meant only as a criticism of the theme he presents and not as an attack of Travis personally or his abilities and qualities as a writer] Travis, what I find objectionable in the above paragraph is that you set yourself up as an objective authority or as a party who has access to objective reality. You aren't and you don't. Each of us is tucked into our personal corner of the omniverse with a singular view of the complexity that is most often described as reality. It is our individuality. And it is purely subjective. And it cannot be any other way. None of us can ultimately decide for another what is valuable. We can form a concensus that places value on the things that are neccessary to continue, sustain, and nurture life, but matters of taste are out of bounds in regards to an enforced value. There *are* alternatives to this and many have been explored, but many of them risk pernicious authoritarianism, and we value our freedom. So we limit ourselves, intentionally, keeping within our minds those things we want to continue, that sustain us, that nurture us, in order that others will partake of
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 18:24:15 -0600 - Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > King is a mediocre writer, who occasionally achieves a golden moment or two. > I often find myself thinking of how he has sold as many books as he has. Of > course he caters to the masses, but then again what professional writer > doesn't? Given that, I must assume that people are for the most part not as > bright as I might give them credit for! It's a fine line > > -Travis "tread it carefully" Edmunds Its kinda useful to put IMO somewhere in a statement like that, otherwise one comes off as an elitist snob. I genuinely think, that in a place such as this, one doesn't have to explicitly state that an opinion rendered is ones own... As for coming off as an "elitist snob", I must apologize for not apologizing in the first place, for the fact that, at times I can be one... I've read every King book as they were published over the last 30 something years. And I chuckle a bit when I read statements like this. Remember Dickens was subject to exactly the same kinds of criticism you make and so were many books that are now considered "classics". A nice, if not relevant comparison. Don't tell me however that King is in the same league as Dickens. King, like most of us is a child of the television era, and like many of us, grew up watching horror movies. This is strongly reflected in his writing and the smell of matinee popcorn wafts from every page. Pure gold in words. I really like that. Most of the complaints concerning Kings writing come from people who aren't interested in the subject matter in the first place. "I don't really like this stuff, therefore it is inferior to the stuff *I* like, and that should be quite obvious to anyone who is not an idiot." If I personally, were not interested in the subject matter of Kings' work, I would not have indulged myself in it in the least. They say there is no accounting for taste. But it is just a fact of life that you *do* have to take taste into account. xponent Have I Seemed To Have Been In A Ranting Mood Lately? Maru rob And so I do Robert. I do not judge people who read King (I put in the whole "people not being bright" thing to elicit a response which worked wonderfully) as that is a matter of pure taste. I do however judge King himself, and render a verdict of which you already know. And it's more than just pure taste or raw opinion. King is without a doubt a mediocre writer.(See actual definition of "mediocre") -Travis "sometimes I am not to be taken 100% literally" Edmunds _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
- Original Message - From: "Damon Agretto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > Hah! I've depleted the local supply of Battletech > books to nearly zero! However, its the SW/ST books > that are legion... > > Damon. > > PS: seriously, if there IS a large local supply of > Battletech books, let me know! I have a few gaps in my > collection, and perhaps a deal can be made... Lots of Battletech here. What would be the easiest way to figure out what's here as opposed to what you need? I'm always glad to help. xponent Bookish Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
> Oh! > So you are one of those who are responsible for > crowding *real* SciFi > off the shelves! > You oughta be horsewhipped by a really big horse! > > A Clydesdale at the least!!! Hah! I've depleted the local supply of Battletech books to nearly zero! However, its the SW/ST books that are legion... Damon. PS: seriously, if there IS a large local supply of Battletech books, let me know! I have a few gaps in my collection, and perhaps a deal can be made... = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Robert Seeberger wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "Damon Agretto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:18 PM > Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > So what other writers or books in science fiction, > > > fantasy, or horror (or > > > heck, any genre) do people on the list like, even > > > though they realize > > > they're not exactly top-notch stuff? James P. Hogan > > > comes to mind for me, > > > as well as Nancy McKenzie and Robin Wayne Bailey > > > (IMO _Shadowdance_ is by > > > far his best novel, and qualifies for me as a > > > non-guilty pleasure). > > > > For me its the Battletech/Mechwarrior novels, which > > (like the Star Trek & SW books have various authors, > > vary in quality. Since I play the game for well on 20 > > years I have an intense loyalty to the franchise. It > > also happens that the universe is one of the most > > detailed I've yet encountered... > > > > Oh! > So you are one of those who are responsible for crowding *real* SciFi > off the shelves! > You oughta be horsewhipped by a really big horse! > > A Clydesdale at the least!!! Actually, Clydesdales are fairly gentle horses. Maybe try an Arabian? > xponent > Its Only Humor Damon Maru > rob So's my remark (snide or otherwise) above. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
- Original Message - From: "Damon Agretto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > So what other writers or books in science fiction, > > fantasy, or horror (or > > heck, any genre) do people on the list like, even > > though they realize > > they're not exactly top-notch stuff? James P. Hogan > > comes to mind for me, > > as well as Nancy McKenzie and Robin Wayne Bailey > > (IMO _Shadowdance_ is by > > far his best novel, and qualifies for me as a > > non-guilty pleasure). > > For me its the Battletech/Mechwarrior novels, which > (like the Star Trek & SW books have various authors, > vary in quality. Since I play the game for well on 20 > years I have an intense loyalty to the franchise. It > also happens that the universe is one of the most > detailed I've yet encountered... > Oh! So you are one of those who are responsible for crowding *real* SciFi off the shelves! You oughta be horsewhipped by a really big horse! A Clydesdale at the least!!! xponent Its Only Humor Damon Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
- Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:42 AM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > > > > >From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General > >Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:29:05 -0600 > > > >Julia wrote, re: books by Sawyer: > > > I really enjoy his > > > books up to the last 3 pages or so, and then I get a little annoyed > > > about the ending. :) > > > >Sounds like most Stephen King books for me, only replace "last 3 pages" > >with > >"last 3 chapters." > > > >Reggie Bautista > > > > King is a mediocre writer, who occasionally achieves a golden moment or two. > I often find myself thinking of how he has sold as many books as he has. Of > course he caters to the masses, but then again what professional writer > doesn't? Given that, I must assume that people are for the most part not as > bright as I might give them credit for! It's a fine line > > -Travis "tread it carefully" Edmunds Its kinda useful to put IMO somewhere in a statement like that, otherwise one comes off as an elitist snob. I've read every King book as they were published over the last 30 something years. And I chuckle a bit when I read statements like this. Remember Dickens was subject to exactly the same kinds of criticism you make and so were many books that are now considered "classics". King, like most of us is a child of the television era, and like many of us, grew up watching horror movies. This is strongly reflected in his writing and the smell of matinee popcorn wafts from every page. Most of the complaints concerning Kings writing come from people who aren't interested in the subject matter in the first place. "I don't really like this stuff, therefore it is inferior to the stuff *I* like, and that should be quite obvious to anyone who is not an idiot." BTW, I write a version of this post when Brin is called a talentless hack. (I've seen those exact words) They say there is no accounting for taste. But it is just a fact of life that you *do* have to take taste into account. xponent Have I Seemed To Have Been In A Ranting Mood Lately? Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General
William T Goodall wrote: >> So what other writers or books in science fiction, fantasy, >> or horror (or heck, any genre) do people on the list like, even though >> they realize they're not exactly top-notch stuff? > Terry Goodkind I used to, but then I read _Faith Of The Fallen_. There is only so much political ranting I can handle in a book, so I didn't bother with _The Pillars Of Creation_. I'd add to that list: David Gemmell Peter F. Hamilton > L E Modesitt I gave up on Modesitt after the 5th Recluce book. It just never seemed to end, though I really liked the first two. Lal GSV Epic Fantasy Glut ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Reggie Bautista wrote: > > Julia wrote: > > Of course, *most* of the books in the house are in the library, not just > > the ones I haven't read yet. I keep track of those partly with the help > > of a data file > > With an off-site backup? :-) > > Seriously, I'm looking into getting a safe-deposit box where I can keep > paper, electronic, and sound copies of all of the music I've written. Right > now I'm about 2 good lightning strikes from losing almost everything, which > makes me just a tad bit nervous. > > But is sounds like you would benefit more from a non-water fire suppression > system than an offsite backup. My wife and I have semi-seriously said that > this would be one of the first things we'd get if we ever won the lottery, > for our room full of books first, and maybe for the computer room second. > (Realistically, we'd probably pay off all our debt first, then buy a new car > for me -- Anita's car is pretty new right now -- then buy or build a new > house with fire-suppression already installed before we move in :-) That sounds like a good idea. If we come into some money, I think we should seriously look into it. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
On 5 Jan 2004, at 6:45 pm, Reggie Bautista wrote: Travis wrote: King is a mediocre writer, who occasionally achieves a golden moment or two. You'll notice in my comment, I didn't say King was a good writer, just that I often enjoy his books. :-) There's definitely a difference. For me, King's better books are a guilty pleasure. (We won't talk about his not-so-better books.) So what other writers or books in science fiction, fantasy, or horror (or heck, any genre) do people on the list like, even though they realize they're not exactly top-notch stuff? E E 'Doc' Smith Robert E Howard Edgar Rice Burroughs David Weber Terry Goodkind L E Modesitt E C Tubb Dean R Koontz Stephen King ...and many more... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone." - Bjarne Stroustrup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 12:45:57 -0600 Travis wrote: > King is a mediocre writer, who occasionally achieves a golden moment or two. You'll notice in my comment, I didn't say King was a good writer, just that I often enjoy his books. :-) There's definitely a difference. For me, King's better books are a guilty pleasure. (We won't talk about his not-so-better books.) Reggie Bautista There were no direct implications towards you in my post. Just my own raw opinion. Also I left myself hanging in the hopes of someone realizing and saying what you just did. Instead of calling people stupid for reading King (or any other mediocre writer for that matter) one must take into account that some people know the difference, and decide to dive into the works of these writers' with reckless abandon. I do so myself with many writers. -Travis "you took the words right outta my mouth" Edmunds Anyone here like Meatloaf? (besides db) _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
> So what other writers or books in science fiction, > fantasy, or horror (or > heck, any genre) do people on the list like, even > though they realize > they're not exactly top-notch stuff? James P. Hogan > comes to mind for me, > as well as Nancy McKenzie and Robin Wayne Bailey > (IMO _Shadowdance_ is by > far his best novel, and qualifies for me as a > non-guilty pleasure). For me its the Battletech/Mechwarrior novels, which (like the Star Trek & SW books have various authors, vary in quality. Since I play the game for well on 20 years I have an intense loyalty to the franchise. It also happens that the universe is one of the most detailed I've yet encountered... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:42:23 -0600 Travis wrote: > Some other series', universes though, that make my top ten > are as follows: > > -The Vampire Chronicles/Mayfair Witches (same Universe) - Anne Rice Hmm. This is a tough one for me. I thought _Interview_ was incredibly interesting but ultimately quite flawed. Interview is definitely one of the best books of the series. But flawed? How so? I really enjoyed _Lestat_ and _Queen of the Damned_ (especially the latter), Lestat was IMO a better book than Queen. But Queen was very good in it's own right. It gave us some "present time" action and events, which was nice. But the funny thing is that all the people I know who have read Queen didn't like it very much. They think it was too jumpy. And I have come to realize that indeed it was/is. However when I read it I had an advantage, as I had read some of the later books before reading Queen, thus giving me enough information to coherently break down that book. >liked _Tale of the Body Thief_ a whole lot, Body Thief was like unto an easter egg for Rice's fans. VERY funny, entertaining, and it introduced us to new concepts within that Universe. and thought _Memnoch the Devil_ was the best in the series (in fact, I think it's probably the second best book Ann Rice has written, behind only _The Violin_). Personally I wouldn't go that far with it, as it deviated from the series a little. However it is a great book, one that stands alone in Rice's works as pure genious. Besides, Lestat (our favorite anti-hero) needed a new foe. But my reaction to all of the Vampire Chronicles books since then can be summed up in one word; "Eh." I cannot agree with you there. Especially when I consider Armand to be one of the best books she has written. Blood & Gold, the story of Marius was simply fascinating. As was Vittorio, one of "The New Tales..." The only disappointments were Pandora, which is pure filler, and Blackwood Farm, which was only mildly disappointing. I thought the first Mayfair Witches book was ok, but haven't much liked the ones since then. I love the Mayfair series. I think even _The Mummy: or Ramses the Damned_ was better than any of the Mayfair books. I havent read any of her stand alone's. Including Violin which you asked me about. I just find it hard to connect to them for some reason, I see where your coming from. The Mayfair characters are more alien than the Vampire characters. But I think this is Rice's intention. As a matter of fact it's quite blatant. The Vampires are her way of proverbially describing the outsider in all of us, which is quite human. And the Witches are in many ways the anti-thesis of the Vampires. > -The War Against The Chtorr - David Gerrold This series is in my "to read someday" list but it doesn't look like I'll be getting to it anytime in the next year or two. Reggie Bautista I highly recommend that series, if only for the reason that Gerrold has managed to create one of the most loveable characters I have ever come across in Jim McCarthy. Of course the series is incomplete, but the four books already published are worth reading. -Travis _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Travis wrote: > King is a mediocre writer, who occasionally achieves a golden moment or two. You'll notice in my comment, I didn't say King was a good writer, just that I often enjoy his books. :-) There's definitely a difference. For me, King's better books are a guilty pleasure. (We won't talk about his not-so-better books.) So what other writers or books in science fiction, fantasy, or horror (or heck, any genre) do people on the list like, even though they realize they're not exactly top-notch stuff? James P. Hogan comes to mind for me, as well as Nancy McKenzie and Robin Wayne Bailey (IMO _Shadowdance_ is by far his best novel, and qualifies for me as a non-guilty pleasure). Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
> King is a mediocre writer, who occasionally achieves > a golden moment or two. > I often find myself thinking of how he has sold as > many books as he has. Of > course he caters to the masses, but then again what > professional writer > doesn't? Given that, I must assume that people are > for the most part not as > bright as I might give them credit for! It's a > fine line Heh, my thoughts exactly... Damon. __ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:41:09 +0900 Travis Edmunds wrote: > -Travis "will be reading more Robert J. Sawyer in the future" Edmunds -- IMO, good decision. I've read most of his stuff. His works are easy to read, the characters, while not deeply developed, are likeable, or at least understandable as they have the same real-world problems as we do. He does have some great ideas that other authors would most likely develop a little more thoroughly, but what the heck, the stories are good. What can I say? I wholeheartedly agree. He won the 1995 Nebula for "The Terminal Experiment" and the 2003 Hugo for "Hominids", the first in his Neanderthal Parallax Trilogy. "Humans" and "Hybrids" are the sequels. All are quite good. I shall endeavor to read those. -Travis _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 07:29:05 -0600 Julia wrote, re: books by Sawyer: > I really enjoy his > books up to the last 3 pages or so, and then I get a little annoyed > about the ending. :) Sounds like most Stephen King books for me, only replace "last 3 pages" with "last 3 chapters." Reggie Bautista King is a mediocre writer, who occasionally achieves a golden moment or two. I often find myself thinking of how he has sold as many books as he has. Of course he caters to the masses, but then again what professional writer doesn't? Given that, I must assume that people are for the most part not as bright as I might give them credit for! It's a fine line -Travis "tread it carefully" Edmunds _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 21:57:26 -0600 Neat. His endings, at least the ones I've read so far, are neat -- in the tidy sense. A little too tidy, if you ask me. I really enjoy his books up to the last 3 pages or so, and then I get a little annoyed about the ending. :) Julia I know EXACTLY what you mean! Too tidy. Usually an ending annoys me for about a week after I have read it. Then it all sinks in, and I usually accept it as a good ending (if it was indeed "good") Of course I have accepted the conclusion to "Calculating God", but I was a little disappointed. Like you said, it was "a little too tidy". I just wish the book had ended differently. It would have then ranked quite high on my list, perhaps even a top 20. -Travis "If wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets" _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Julia wrote, re: books by Sawyer: > I really enjoy his > books up to the last 3 pages or so, and then I get a little annoyed > about the ending. :) Sounds like most Stephen King books for me, only replace "last 3 pages" with "last 3 chapters." Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Julia wrote: > Of course, *most* of the books in the house are in the library, not just > the ones I haven't read yet. I keep track of those partly with the help > of a data file With an off-site backup? :-) Seriously, I'm looking into getting a safe-deposit box where I can keep paper, electronic, and sound copies of all of the music I've written. Right now I'm about 2 good lightning strikes from losing almost everything, which makes me just a tad bit nervous. But is sounds like you would benefit more from a non-water fire suppression system than an offsite backup. My wife and I have semi-seriously said that this would be one of the first things we'd get if we ever won the lottery, for our room full of books first, and maybe for the computer room second. (Realistically, we'd probably pay off all our debt first, then buy a new car for me -- Anita's car is pretty new right now -- then buy or build a new house with fire-suppression already installed before we move in :-) Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 1/4/2004 8:54:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > In the library. > > > > It's a 20' X 20' room over the garage; there are 21 bookcases against > > the walls, 5 on the west wall, 6 on the north wall, 6 on the east wall > > and 4 on the south wall. > > You can really cause a panic if you ever get a telemarketer call from a > carpet cleaner offering a set price wall to wall service. Well, that room isn't carpeted. :) Laminate. Laminate there, and in the entry and hallway back to the kitchen, and the room I'm typing in, and the nursery. > You got me beat, but not by volume per square foot. In a 12' by 12' > bedroom, I have twelve bookshelves, four of them forming a central core. > > Oh, and a double stacked video rack tucked into one of the interior corners. > > William Taylor > - > Always needing more space. Who isn't? :) Julia and we *had* enough closet space, until we moved Sam out of the nursery ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
In a message dated 1/4/2004 8:54:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > In the library. > > It's a 20' X 20' room over the garage; there are 21 bookcases against > the walls, 5 on the west wall, 6 on the north wall, 6 on the east wall > and 4 on the south wall. You can really cause a panic if you ever get a telemarketer call from a carpet cleaner offering a set price wall to wall service. You got me beat, but not by volume per square foot. In a 12' by 12' bedroom, I have twelve bookshelves, four of them forming a central core. Oh, and a double stacked video rack tucked into one of the interior corners. William Taylor - Always needing more space. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Travis Edmunds wrote: > > >From: "Bryon Daly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General > >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:01:39 -0500 > > > >>From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >>-Calculating God (Robert J Sawyer/Anyone heard of him or the book?/He has > >>won a Nebula) > > > >This is sitting on my pile of to-be-read books. I thought my pile was > >large, with about 40 or so sitting on the shelf, but it's dwarfed by > >Julia's pile. (Julia - where do you store all of them?) > > Well, I have it read (past-tense) now. It was a really neat book. Yes I > think that's the appropriate word "neat". I don't think Sawyer is a great > writer, although he is very fast paced (in a good way), and very intelligent > in the little things transferred from his head to paper. However his > abilities as a great storyteller who envelopes one into his/her fictional > world is certainly lacking. But the best thing about the book and Sawyer > himself I suppose, is the originality and bold ideas put forward. Like I > said, NEAT. Neat. His endings, at least the ones I've read so far, are neat -- in the tidy sense. A little too tidy, if you ask me. I really enjoy his books up to the last 3 pages or so, and then I get a little annoyed about the ending. :) Julia I would have appreciated the endings a lot more 10 years ago ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Bryon Daly wrote: > > >From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >-Calculating God (Robert J Sawyer/Anyone heard of him or the book?/He has > >won a Nebula) > > This is sitting on my pile of to-be-read books. I thought my pile was > large, with about 40 or so sitting on the shelf, but it's dwarfed by Julia's > pile. (Julia - where do you store all of them?) In the library. It's a 20' X 20' room over the garage; there are 21 bookcases against the walls, 5 on the west wall, 6 on the north wall, 6 on the east wall and 4 on the south wall. There's a map cabinet in front of the area under the window on the south wall. There's a closet door on the north wall, and we have some framed artwork in that closet. (We've been in the house for 18 months, still haven't hung all the art we mean to yet.) Of course, *most* of the books in the house are in the library, not just the ones I haven't read yet. I keep track of those partly with the help of a data file Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General
At 07:19 PM 1/3/04, Lalith Vipulananthan wrote: Ronn! wrote: > I wish Gerrold would work on a completed series . . . *lol* Tell me about it. I started reading this series in 1990, around the time that _A Season For Slaughter_ came out. 13 years later, and Gerrold is still alive from all accounts. I haven't seen him in person in that time, but I also haven't heard any reports of his demise . . . I think he wrote the three Dingiliad books to get himself a contract, so that he'd be able to publish _A Method For Madness_. When he finishes it that is. Lal GSV Or maybe he was swallowed by the massive amount of loose notes, floppy discs, folders etc that he has lying around, all related to the Chtorr series Like that guy in NYC? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General
Ronn! wrote: > I wish Gerrold would work on a completed series . . . *lol* Tell me about it. I started reading this series in 1990, around the time that _A Season For Slaughter_ came out. 13 years later, and Gerrold is still alive from all accounts. I think he wrote the three Dingiliad books to get himself a contract, so that he'd be able to publish _A Method For Madness_. When he finishes it that is. Lal GSV Or maybe he was swallowed by the massive amount of loose notes, floppy discs, folders etc that he has lying around, all related to the Chtorr series ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Travis wrote: > Some other series', universes though, that make my top ten > are as follows: > > -The Vampire Chronicles/Mayfair Witches (same Universe) - Anne Rice Hmm. This is a tough one for me. I thought _Interview_ was incredibly interesting but ultimately quite flawed. I really enjoyed _Lestat_ and _Queen of the Damned_ (especially the latter), liked _Tale of the Body Thief_ a whole lot, and thought _Memnoch the Devil_ was the best in the series (in fact, I think it's probably the second best book Ann Rice has written, behind only _The Violin_). But my reaction to all of the Vampire Chronicles books since then can be summed up in one word; "Eh." I thought the first Mayfair Witches book was ok, but haven't much liked the ones since then. I think even _The Mummy: or Ramses the Damned_ was better than any of the Mayfair books. I just find it hard to connect to them for some reason, even though I really like the genre. I would say that if you limit The Vampire Chronicles to just the first five, it would probably be in contention for being in my list of top ten series of books, but IMO the rest of the series brings it down quite a bit. Of course, another way of looking at it is that the entire Rice universe is somewhat interesting and the first five Vampire novels elevate it quite a bit... By the way, have you read either _The Violin_ or _Servant of the Bones_? If so, what did you think of them? > -The War Against The Chtorr - David Gerrold This series is in my "to read someday" list but it doesn't look like I'll be getting to it anytime in the next year or two. > -Rama series - Clarke See above, although somewhat higher on the list. Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:00:17 -0600 At 03:16 PM 1/1/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:11:39 -0600 At 12:13 PM 1/1/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: -The War Against The Chtorr - David Gerrold -Travis "gonna work on a completed top ten" Edmunds I wish Gerrold would work on a completed series . . . -- Ronn! :) My sentiments as well. Do you like that series? I wouldn't put it in *my* personal top ten, but I did enjoy it, and would like to have known what happened . . . -- Ronn! :) OPINION WANTED YOURS IS: Do you think there is an intelligence behind the Chtorran infestation? Please justify your answer a little, if indeed you answer at all. -Travis "it's fun to conjecture, relevant as well" Edmunds _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Travis Edmunds wrote: > -Travis "will be reading more Robert J. Sawyer in the future" Edmunds -- IMO, good decision. I've read most of his stuff. His works are easy to read, the characters, while not deeply developed, are likeable, or at least understandable as they have the same real-world problems as we do. He does have some great ideas that other authors would most likely develop a little more thoroughly, but what the heck, the stories are good. He won the 1995 Nebula for "The Terminal Experiment" and the 2003 Hugo for "Hominids", the first in his Neanderthal Parallax Trilogy. "Humans" and "Hybrids" are the sequels. All are quite good. The first I read by Sawyer was "Starplex" (Hugo and Nebula nominee). I'd like to see a sequel to it. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
At 03:16 PM 1/1/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:11:39 -0600 At 12:13 PM 1/1/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: -The War Against The Chtorr - David Gerrold -Travis "gonna work on a completed top ten" Edmunds I wish Gerrold would work on a completed series . . . -- Ronn! :) My sentiments as well. Do you like that series? I wouldn't put it in *my* personal top ten, but I did enjoy it, and would like to have known what happened . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:11:39 -0600 At 12:13 PM 1/1/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: -The War Against The Chtorr - David Gerrold -Travis "gonna work on a completed top ten" Edmunds I wish Gerrold would work on a completed series . . . -- Ronn! :) My sentiments as well. Do you like that series? -Travis _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
At 12:13 PM 1/1/04, Travis Edmunds wrote: -The War Against The Chtorr - David Gerrold -Travis "gonna work on a completed top ten" Edmunds I wish Gerrold would work on a completed series . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 01:01:34 -0600 Dune is most definitely in my top ten favorite book series, along with Tolkien's Middle-Earth books (The Hobbit, The LoTR trilogy, The Silmarillion, Book of Lost Tales, etc. all as one group), the Uplift books by His Brin-ness, Asimov's Foundation books and stories, Niven's Known Space stories and novels, and a handful of others I'm too tired to think of right now. Reggie Bautista Interesting. Tolkien's "Middle-Earth", and db's "Uplift" series' are certainly in my top ten. The other's on your rudimentary list however are not. In any case I havent yet read the Foundation series as I haven't encountered anything (as of yet) by Asimov that I actually liked. Some other series', universes though, that make my top ten are as follows: -The Vampire Chronicles/Mayfair Witches (same Universe) - Anne Rice -The War Against The Chtorr - David Gerrold -Rama series - Clarke Aside from those, it gets to be tough choices... -Travis "gonna work on a completed top ten" Edmunds _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General
From: "Bryon Daly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 23:01:39 -0500 From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -Calculating God (Robert J Sawyer/Anyone heard of him or the book?/He has won a Nebula) This is sitting on my pile of to-be-read books. I thought my pile was large, with about 40 or so sitting on the shelf, but it's dwarfed by Julia's pile. (Julia - where do you store all of them?) Well, I have it read (past-tense) now. It was a really neat book. Yes I think that's the appropriate word "neat". I don't think Sawyer is a great writer, although he is very fast paced (in a good way), and very intelligent in the little things transferred from his head to paper. However his abilities as a great storyteller who envelopes one into his/her fictional world is certainly lacking. But the best thing about the book and Sawyer himself I suppose, is the originality and bold ideas put forward. Like I said, NEAT. -Travis "will be reading more Robert J. Sawyer in the future" Edmunds _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
I wrote, re: the Dune books: > > I hated the second one. > > > > Hated, hated hated. Damon asked: > What exactly didn't you like about it? I thought it > was pretty good...not as good as the first, but > somewhat better than the third. It was... it had... it lacked... um... You know, it's been so long since I read it that I can remember I reacted very strongly, very emotionally, and in a very negative way to the second book, but I don't really remember why. Maybe it's time I re-read it. Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
I wrote: > >You may have heard this from me before, I'm pretty sure others on > >this list have... I loved the first Dune novel, loved the third and the > >ones after that. Travis replied: > So, as far as the entire series is concerned, how would you rate it? Does it > make your top ten for example? Dune is most definitely in my top ten favorite book series, along with Tolkien's Middle-Earth books (The Hobbit, The LoTR trilogy, The Silmarillion, Book of Lost Tales, etc. all as one group), the Uplift books by His Brin-ness, Asimov's Foundation books and stories, Niven's Known Space stories and novels, and a handful of others I'm too tired to think of right now. Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General
From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -Calculating God (Robert J Sawyer/Anyone heard of him or the book?/He has won a Nebula) This is sitting on my pile of to-be-read books. I thought my pile was large, with about 40 or so sitting on the shelf, but it's dwarfed by Julia's pile. (Julia - where do you store all of them?) _ Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Doug Pensinger wrote: > > David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Nothing too much that was new. Mostly more of the same-old > > stuff. (Yawn.) > > Oh I don't know, Chelegrans, behemothaurs, pylon country as well as a more > in depth look at a lot of the stuff that he'd only touched on briefly made > it interesting to me. That and an introspective look at the Culture - all > is not perfect. One thing; Banks can end a book gracefully - satisfyingly > and I thought the ending of this one was a good piece of work. Yes. It was well done, and fleshed some things out. But it still feels weak, compared to the others. > >> > >> > Depends--what exactly IS a git? The best definition I can > >> > produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"... > >> > >> a foolish or worthless person (http//www.m-w.com) > > > > That's a dictionary definition. I've read a few. They > > give one the general sense of the word, but don't really settle > > what Horza is. He really seems to be balanced on the knife-edge > > between git and not git. > > If one acts foolishly for idealistic reasons, is one > > really a git? Probably not. But add that one's ideals are > > not quite consistent, and one is quite possibly a git. > > I give up--the Brits can argue this one out. > > Well, Horza may have been wrong from our point of view and from the > Culture's point of view, but he thought he was right, he was good (as in > skilled), and he had some pretty cool tricks. And hey, don't forget his > species was all but extinct so there was some measure of desperation > involved. Surely believing that one is right is not enough to avoid being a git? Neither is being skilled, is it? As for his species being close to extinction, doesn't that provide more evidence of his being a git? He shouldn't be chasing minds in tunnels if he's worried about his kind dying out. Most of the galaxy was not involved--he should have got out of the combat zone. : ) > Definitely not a git, IMO. 8^) ---David Anatomy of a git ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:52:12 -0600 Travis wrote: > -Dune (can't wait to read it/at least two people here on the list highly > recommended it + the series) You may have heard this from me before, I'm pretty sure others on this list have... I loved the first Dune novel, loved the third and the ones after that. Reggie Bautista So, as far as the entire series is concerned, how would you rate it? Does it make your top ten for example? -Travis _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nothing too much that was new. Mostly more of the same-old stuff. (Yawn.) Oh I don't know, Chelegrans, behemothaurs, pylon country as well as a more in depth look at a lot of the stuff that he'd only touched on briefly made it interesting to me. That and an introspective look at the Culture - all is not perfect. One thing; Banks can end a book gracefully - satisfyingly and I thought the ending of this one was a good piece of work. > Depends--what exactly IS a git? The best definition I can > produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"... a foolish or worthless person (http//www.m-w.com) That's a dictionary definition. I've read a few. They give one the general sense of the word, but don't really settle what Horza is. He really seems to be balanced on the knife-edge between git and not git. If one acts foolishly for idealistic reasons, is one really a git? Probably not. But add that one's ideals are not quite consistent, and one is quite possibly a git. I give up--the Brits can argue this one out. Well, Horza may have been wrong from our point of view and from the Culture's point of view, but he thought he was right, he was good (as in skilled), and he had some pretty cool tricks. And hey, don't forget his species was all but extinct so there was some measure of desperation involved. Definitely not a git, IMO. 8^) -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Doug Pensinger wrote: > > David Hobby wrote: > > > I believe Player of Games is one of the best, certainly > > the best "first book". Use of Weapons is probably best, but be > > warned, it's not a cheery book. The rest are all good, but I was > > not too impressed with Look to Windward, it seemed derivative. > > Derivative? Not sure what you mean. Nothing too much that was new. Mostly more of the same-old stuff. (Yawn.) > > > Depends--what exactly IS a git? The best definition I can > > produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"... > > a foolish or worthless person (http//www.m-w.com) That's a dictionary definition. I've read a few. They give one the general sense of the word, but don't really settle what Horza is. He really seems to be balanced on the knife-edge between git and not git. If one acts foolishly for idealistic reasons, is one really a git? Probably not. But add that one's ideals are not quite consistent, and one is quite possibly a git. I give up--the Brits can argue this one out. ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
> I hated the second one. > > Hated, hated hated. What exactly didn't you like about it? I thought it was pretty good...not as good as the first, but somewhat better than the third. Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
David Hobby wrote: I believe Player of Games is one of the best, certainly the best "first book". Use of Weapons is probably best, but be warned, it's not a cheery book. The rest are all good, but I was not too impressed with Look to Windward, it seemed derivative. Derivative? Not sure what you mean. Depends--what exactly IS a git? The best definition I can produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"... a foolish or worthless person (http//www.m-w.com) -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
On 28 Dec 2003, at 5:28 pm, David Hobby wrote: ... I place CP at the top of the list with UoW, Inversions and LtW very close behind. I need to reread Excession. I enjoyed it, but it was a complex story with many, many ships to keep track of. I agree that PoG is the weakest except for maybe State of the Art. I read CP first Inversions second, and have reread both. And by the way... not a git. -- Doug I believe Player of Games is one of the best, certainly the best "first book". Use of Weapons is probably best, but be warned, it's not a cheery book. The rest are all good, but I was not too impressed with Look to Windward, it seemed derivative. I like PoG too. Not sure which is best or worst of the Iain M Banks books. I think _The Bridge_ is his best Iain Banks book, and maybe his best over all. Depends--what exactly IS a git? The best definition I can produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"... Chambers says 'a fool'. I think Gobuchul is a git :) But it is 15 years since I read it... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Our products just aren't engineered for security." - Brian Valentine, senior vice president in charge of Microsoft's Windows development team. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
On Sat, Dec 27, 2003 at 09:22:01PM -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: > This is weird. I know I've read Against a Dark Background, but the > description does not fit with my memory. ... > I need a better description to jog my memory of the story. Sharrow was the main character. Group of mercenaries (former soldiers, friends), pursued by Huhsz who are looking for Sharrow. Monowheel. Lazy gun. Betrayal. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
... > I place CP at the top of the list with UoW, Inversions and LtW very close > behind. I need to reread Excession. I enjoyed it, but it was a complex > story with many, many ships to keep track of. I agree that PoG is the > weakest except for maybe State of the Art. I read CP first Inversions > second, and have reread both. > > And by the way... not a git. > > -- > Doug I believe Player of Games is one of the best, certainly the best "first book". Use of Weapons is probably best, but be warned, it's not a cheery book. The rest are all good, but I was not too impressed with Look to Windward, it seemed derivative. ---David Depends--what exactly IS a git? The best definition I can produce is "one who intentionally refuses to think"... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Julia Thompson wrote: >B&N? >hasn't been in a B&N store for almost 2 years Hmph! Way to kill the joke, Julia. ;-) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
In a message dated 12/27/2003 10:48:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Travis wrote: > > -Dune (can't wait to read it/at least two people here on the list highly > > recommended it + the series) > > You may have heard this from me before, I'm pretty sure others on > this list have... I loved the first Dune novel, loved the third and the > ones after that. > > I hated the second one. As they are milking it for all it's worth, I'm stll expecting to someday see Brig-a-Dune and Dune & Bradstreet. And the all naked version of the original Dune what comes naturally. Vilyehm Teighlore ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Travis wrote: > -Dune (can't wait to read it/at least two people here on the list highly > recommended it + the series) You may have heard this from me before, I'm pretty sure others on this list have... I loved the first Dune novel, loved the third and the ones after that. I hated the second one. Hated, hated hated. I almost didn't read the rest of the series because of the second one. But of course, you can't skip the second one as it sets up a lot of things that get payed off in book three (and later, IIRC). You have *no idea* how happy I was when I heard that SciFi channel was combining the second and third books into one miniseries, instead of devoting a separate mini to each book. Obviously, I'm in the minority here, but I just wanted to mention that... YMMV, of course. Reggie Bautista ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Kevin wrote: And to add to Doug's answer, I think it depends on what level of sci-fi you want. I think Player of Games is a weak book, compared with the rest. Excession is very high tech and is my favorite, but it was also my first. CP is interesting as is Look to Windward. Both have technology but are also character driven like PoG. Inversions is best after those three, because you will then know what is going on. Then again, I read it and still don't know what happened. (You'll see). Use of Weapons is the best book, but save it for last if you can. I place CP at the top of the list with UoW, Inversions and LtW very close behind. I need to reread Excession. I enjoyed it, but it was a complex story with many, many ships to keep track of. I agree that PoG is the weakest except for maybe State of the Art. I read CP first Inversions second, and have reread both. And by the way... not a git. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Jim Sharkey wrote: > > Julia Thompson wrote: > >My pile is over 800 for fiction alone. > > Maybe it's time to put one of those signs at the bottom of the pile > like they do on queues that cuts it off. Even if by some miracle > (given your family obligations) you could read a book a day, you're > looking at two-and-a-half straight years of reading. > > Someone take Julia's B&N account away before it's too late! :) B&N? No, my biggest problem is one William Siros, followed by one Scott Cupp, followed closely by amazon.com. :) (And not only does Willie offer me a 15% discount on the books he pushes on me, he's willing to come to my house once in awhile to deliver them in person!) Julia hasn't been in a B&N store for almost 2 years, and hasn't ever bought from them on-line ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
At 01:47 PM 12/27/2003, you wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: >I'm just finishing Snow Crash (Neal Stephenson) What did you think? >I was shopping for my brother in law who also reads a lot of SF and >ended up getting him a copy of Iain M. Banks' Inversions without >thinking too much about it. I need to get a copy of Consider >Phlebas or Player of Games (or both) for him to read first Player of Games is the only one I've read so far, and I liked it a lot. It seems like a good intro to the Culture. What should I read next from him, you think? Jim And to add to Doug's answer, I think it depends on what level of sci-fi you want. I think Player of Games is a weak book, compared with the rest. Excession is very high tech and is my favorite, but it was also my first. CP is interesting as is Look to Windward. Both have technology but are also character driven like PoG. Inversions is best after those three, because you will then know what is going on. Then again, I read it and still don't know what happened. (You'll see). Use of Weapons is the best book, but save it for last if you can. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
At 02:32 PM 12/27/2003, you wrote: On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:47:25 -0500 (EST), Jim Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: I'm just finishing Snow Crash (Neal Stephenson) What did you think? Haven't quite finished yet, battle looming on the Enterprise. Stephenson is a real talent, but I hope the ending is better than Diamond Age. More later. I was shopping for my brother in law who also reads a lot of SF and ended up getting him a copy of Iain M. Banks' Inversions without thinking too much about it. I need to get a copy of Consider Phlebas or Player of Games (or both) for him to read first Player of Games is the only one I've read so far, and I liked it a lot. It seems like a good intro to the Culture. What should I read next from him, you think? Consider Phlebas gives an outsiders view of the culture and allows you to entertain THE question*. But they are all good; Use of Weapons, Inversions(as I mentioned familiarity with the Culture is a plus before reading this one), Excession (take notes), State of the Art and Look to Windward. I haven't read the two non Culture books; Against a Dark Background and Feersom Endjinn. Jim Not that I don't already have about 10 books in the pipeline thanks to the holidays Maru Ah, my Lal-pile** is considerably larger than that and continues to grow unchecked thanks to the used book store near my work that I can't seem to stay away from. -- Doug *Is Horza a git? **A culture list reference a member of whom, Lalith Vipulananthan, is famous for his stack of unread books. This is weird. I know I've read Against a Dark Background, but the description does not fit with my memory. I now see it was Look to Windward I was thinking of. I need a better description to jog my memory of the story. Player of Games, Use of Weapons, Inversions, and Excession I've read and can recall, but not AaDB. But total agreement, they are all great books. Feersom Endjinn I've started a few times, but it's a tough read. Wasp Factory and Complicity are straight fiction (mostly, hehe) and are not bad. They are tough to find here in the US. Some stupid laws between England, Canada and the US. http://www.iainbanks.net/index.htm He has a forum on his site. Does The Culture list know? ;-) I only have 4 or 5 books to read, but 20 more that I want to read after them. Where is all the time going? Kevin T. - VRWC I say not a git ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Julia Thompson wrote: >My pile is over 800 for fiction alone. Maybe it's time to put one of those signs at the bottom of the pile like they do on queues that cuts it off. Even if by some miracle (given your family obligations) you could read a book a day, you're looking at two-and-a-half straight years of reading. Someone take Julia's B&N account away before it's too late! :) Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Doug Pensinger wrote: > Ah, my Lal-pile** is considerably larger than that and continues to grow > unchecked thanks to the used book store near my work that I can't seem to > stay away from. > > -- > Doug > > **A culture list reference a member of whom, Lalith Vipulananthan, is > famous for his stack of unread books. My pile is over 800 for fiction alone. I have this habit of buying the whole series as soon as I've finished reading the first, or buying as much of a particular author as I can once I've read one or two that I really liked by him or her. I've been burned too many times by things going out of print before I want to read them, and I don't have free access to any public library, and the non-public library I have free access to is a pain and a half to get to from here. (And with kids the ages mine are, darn near impossible.) On the non-fiction, we have an awful lot there that I haven't read, either, but I'm not sure how many of them I want to read. :) There are plenty in the "want to read" pile, still. Julia currently reading _Deep Time_ by Benford and a book on solving children's sleep problems ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Travis Edmunds wrote: > -Calculating God (Robert J Sawyer/Anyone heard of him or the book?/He has > won a Nebula) Yes, and he won a Hugo this year for _Hominids_. _Calculating God_ was nominated for a Hugo. It was beat out by a Harry Potter book. Frankly, I thought that _The Sky Road_ by Ken MacLeod was the best nominee for Best Novel that year, but it didn't win. I'm not sure if I was still getting Locus when the final tallies for those were published. (I also liked _Midnight Robber_ by Nalo Hopkinson, but didn't get around to reading the George R. R. Martin book nominated that year before I sent off my ballot -- naughty voter! Then again, it was the Nth in a series and I had a newborn to deal with before my ballot was cast.) On Sawyer, of the ones I've read, the one I enjoyed the most was _Starplex_. Julia who will renew the Locus subscription when she gets to having time to actually *read* it again ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 13:47:25 -0500 (EST), Jim Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: I'm just finishing Snow Crash (Neal Stephenson) What did you think? Haven't quite finished yet, battle looming on the Enterprise. Stephenson is a real talent, but I hope the ending is better than Diamond Age. More later. I was shopping for my brother in law who also reads a lot of SF and ended up getting him a copy of Iain M. Banks' Inversions without thinking too much about it. I need to get a copy of Consider Phlebas or Player of Games (or both) for him to read first Player of Games is the only one I've read so far, and I liked it a lot. It seems like a good intro to the Culture. What should I read next from him, you think? Consider Phlebas gives an outsiders view of the culture and allows you to entertain THE question*. But they are all good; Use of Weapons, Inversions(as I mentioned familiarity with the Culture is a plus before reading this one), Excession (take notes), State of the Art and Look to Windward. I haven't read the two non Culture books; Against a Dark Background and Feersom Endjinn. Jim Not that I don't already have about 10 books in the pipeline thanks to the holidays Maru Ah, my Lal-pile** is considerably larger than that and continues to grow unchecked thanks to the used book store near my work that I can't seem to stay away from. -- Doug *Is Horza a git? **A culture list reference a member of whom, Lalith Vipulananthan, is famous for his stack of unread books. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Doug Pensinger wrote: >I'm just finishing Snow Crash (Neal Stephenson) What did you think? >I was shopping for my brother in law who also reads a lot of SF and >ended up getting him a copy of Iain M. Banks' Inversions without >thinking too much about it. I need to get a copy of Consider >Phlebas or Player of Games (or both) for him to read first Player of Games is the only one I've read so far, and I liked it a lot. It seems like a good intro to the Culture. What should I read next from him, you think? Jim Not that I don't already have about 10 books in the pipeline thanks to the holidays Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
> -Dune (can't wait to read it/at least two people > here on the list highly > recommended it + the series) Interestingly I bought that just before christmas in hardback; my supervisor at work gave me a B&N gift certificate, and since they have a mediocre history section, well I had been looking to replace my sc edition for some time... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General
Travis wrote: Merry Christmas everyone. And speaking of "the most wonderful time of the year" (sorry Nick), I received some books for Christmas. Three books to be exact: -Dune (can't wait to read it/at least two people here on the list highly recommended it + the series) -Blackwood Farm (Anne Rice/for you Rice fans out there, what did you think, as this is the first book that I decided to read) -Calculating God (Robert J Sawyer/Anyone heard of him or the book?/He has won a Nebula) I got Mary Doria Russell's The Sparrow which I've been hearing good things about for years. I'm just finishing Snow Crash (Neal Stephenson) so I'll read it next. Maybe. I was shopping for my brother in law who also reads a lot of SF and ended up getting him a copy of Iain M. Banks' Inversions without thinking too much about it. I need to get a copy of Consider Phlebas or Player of Games (or both) for him to read first as Inversions won't be completely comprehensible without reading at least one other Culture book first. Banks is very highly recommended by the way, excellent stuff. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Science Fiction In General
Merry Christmas everyone. And speaking of "the most wonderful time of the year" (sorry Nick), I received some books for Christmas. Three books to be exact: -Dune (can't wait to read it/at least two people here on the list highly recommended it + the series) -Blackwood Farm (Anne Rice/for you Rice fans out there, what did you think, as this is the first book that I decided to read) -Calculating God (Robert J Sawyer/Anyone heard of him or the book?/He has won a Nebula) -Travis _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 03:06:31 -0600 At 09:04 PM 12/22/03, Travis Edmunds wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:47:28 -0600 Last I knew, he was on the high council. Of course, it has been a while since I talked to him in person. I suppose I should read his web site more often . . . -- Ronn! :) You've spoken to Mr Card in person? Yes. Usually when we have both been at LTU&E <<http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue>>, which I had a small part in getting started, but obviously don't get to go as often these days as when I lived nearer. (Though, FWIW, I guess OSC and I do live significantly closer to each other than either of us does to Provo . . .) -- Ronn! :) So are you an OS Card fan? -Travis _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
At 09:04 PM 12/22/03, Travis Edmunds wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:47:28 -0600 Last I knew, he was on the high council. Of course, it has been a while since I talked to him in person. I suppose I should read his web site more often . . . -- Ronn! :) You've spoken to Mr Card in person? Yes. Usually when we have both been at LTU&E <<http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue>>, which I had a small part in getting started, but obviously don't get to go as often these days as when I lived nearer. (Though, FWIW, I guess OSC and I do live significantly closer to each other than either of us does to Provo . . .) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
At 05:52 PM 12/22/03, Julia Thompson wrote: "Ronn!Blankenship" wrote: > From the collection "Hymns We Would Actually Sing": Where can I find that? Actually, I don't think it's been published it yet . . . (Maybe some time after the first of the year, though AFAIK it's not scheduled for the January issue . . .) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
In a message dated 12/22/2003 8:05:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > -- Ronn! :) > > You've spoken to Mr Card in person? > > -Travis Then ask him why he gave Columbus a telescope. William Taylor - My favorite meaningless rant. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
From: Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:47:28 -0600 Last I knew, he was on the high council. Of course, it has been a while since I talked to him in person. I suppose I should read his web site more often . . . -- Ronn! :) You've spoken to Mr Card in person? -Travis _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photos&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
From: David Hobby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:25:54 -0500 I've read all of them but _The Crystal City_. I do confess to being a bit upset when I discovered that _Seventh Son_ was only the start of a series! (I thought it was stand-alone when I bought it.) Same here! I knew about the Alvin series, just didn't tie Seventh Son into it!! I do quite like the books, although the last two didn't seem to move the series forward as much as the first three did. Thanks for the insight. Alvin doesn't seem to be too much of a "superman" for me. He basically has one extra power, in a world where many people have such "knacks". It is a nice general power, but a lot of his progress is because of his own struggles. True. But it's still the inherent greatness routine. Now is it Science Fiction? I'd say yes, if only in a general sense. Card has imagined a world with not too many differences from our own past, and thought through the consequences of those differences pretty carefully. That is the core of Science Fiction, isn't it? ---David What? Science fiction needs high technology? Says who? First of all I'm not quite sure why everyone answers that unasked question! I assume it's due to me posting about "Seventh Son" in the Science Fiction In General thread. Anyhow as for it being sci-fi, it's borderline. Like you said about the technology aspect of it all, "says who?" _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
"Ronn!Blankenship" wrote: > From the collection "Hymns We Would Actually Sing": Where can I find that? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
At 05:31 PM 12/22/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Original Message- > From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:58 PM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... > > > At 11:51 AM 12/22/03, Horn, John wrote: > >It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. > > > > Well, what do you expect when he only gets to preach for real > on the fourth > Sunday of every month, and then only on a topic that's > assigned to him, and > that only for about twenty minutes? You mean Fast Sunday? No. Fast Sunday is the _first_ Sunday of the month. The fourth Sunday is traditionally Dry Council Sunday. Why only the last Sunday of the month? If there's a fifth Sunday in the month, something else happens. http://www.hatrack.com/research/student-papers/porschet.shtml "Card has won the Hugo and Nebula awards in 1986 for Ender's Game and in 1987 for its sequel,Speaker for the Dead. To this day he is the only author to win these prestigious awards in two consecutive years. Card has lived in California, Utah, and Arizona. He served a two year mission in Brazil for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Card is a very dedicated member of the Mormon church and serves as a Sunday school teacher in his ward. " Last I knew, he was on the high council. Of course, it has been a while since I talked to him in person. I suppose I should read his web site more often . . . (I did think about the possibility he had been released from that position when I wrote the earlier message . . . ) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
Travis Edmunds wrote: > > I finished off "Seventh Son" by OS Card the other day. It's the first book > in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all > the books leading up to and including "The Crystal City"? > > The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate "Seventh Son" above "Enders > Game". Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another > demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. > > -Travis I've read all of them but _The Crystal City_. I do confess to being a bit upset when I discovered that _Seventh Son_ was only the start of a series! (I thought it was stand-alone when I bought it.) I do quite like the books, although the last two didn't seem to move the series forward as much as the first three did. Alvin doesn't seem to be too much of a "superman" for me. He basically has one extra power, in a world where many people have such "knacks". It is a nice general power, but a lot of his progress is because of his own struggles. Now is it Science Fiction? I'd say yes, if only in a general sense. Card has imagined a world with not too many differences from our own past, and thought through the consequences of those differences pretty carefully. That is the core of Science Fiction, isn't it? ---David What? Science fiction needs high technology? Says who? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
> -Original Message- > From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:58 PM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... > > > At 11:51 AM 12/22/03, Horn, John wrote: > >It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. > > > > Well, what do you expect when he only gets to preach for real > on the fourth > Sunday of every month, and then only on a topic that's > assigned to him, and > that only for about twenty minutes? You mean Fast Sunday? Why only the last Sunday of the month? http://www.hatrack.com/research/student-papers/porschet.shtml "Card has won the Hugo and Nebula awards in 1986 for Ender's Game and in 1987 for its sequel,Speaker for the Dead. To this day he is the only author to win these prestigious awards in two consecutive years. Card has lived in California, Utah, and Arizona. He served a two year mission in Brazil for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Card is a very dedicated member of the Mormon church and serves as a Sunday school teacher in his ward. " And it continues on... "The majority of Card's writing has an emphasis on Mormonism, whether it is talked about in his story, or whether it is just recognized by Mormon readers; it is there. In Card's Homecoming Saga (The Memory of Earth, The Call of Earth, The Ships of Earth, Earthfall, Earthborn), he tells the story of the Book of Mormon. The main character in the Alvin Maker series is obviously, to any member of the Mormon church, modeled after Joseph Smith. The family in this series (Seventh Son, Red Prophet, Prentice Alvin, Alvin Journeyman) moves away from Vermont because of bad farm land. Joseph Smith's family left Vermont for the same reason(Porschet). In Seventh Son, the main character, Alvin has a leg operation at about the same age Joseph Smith was when he had a similar leg operation. The account of this operation is recorded by Joseph's mother, Lucy Mack Smith (Smith 54). The Alvin Maker series is a combination of American history, Mormon history, and folk magic. In a personal letter that I received from Orson Scott Card regarding what influenced his writing style, vision, and genre the most, he said: "...the culture that created me was a mixture of my family, the LDS church... the public culture of America in that era (as expressed through television, radio, news, prevailing public views and issues), and the culture of Santa Clara and Mesa in particular, especially of the educational system in those two cities..." " I read book 1 and 2 of the Homecoming series, and came to the same conclusion - it's clearly influenced by the Book of Mormon. Nerd From behind the Zion Curtain > > > > From the collection "Hymns We Would Actually Sing": > > "Come listen to a high councilor drone, And try to stay > awake, It's good he speaks just once a month, 'Cuz that's all > that we can take. He's given the same talk so many times That > even he is bored, If I cannot keep my eyes open I just hope I > will not snore." > > > > -- Ronn! :) > > ___ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l > ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:58:18 -0600 - Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... > So in other words, it's the Ender series? > No, I would say it is quite a bit better. But then I was never a *big* fan of the Ender series. It's better than mediocre, but not a lot better. xponent Mediocrity Incarnate Maru rob As for the Ender series I have to agree, somewhat. At the very least "Enders Game" is a great book. Different in the way it was written, in the context of how the reader feels while reading it. Allow me to draw a Tolkien parallel; "The Hobbit" in direct contrast to "The Lord Of The Rings" trilogy reads as a childs book, and indeed it was a childs book. Yet while reading it one is enveloped in a fantasy land where nothing is really explained, yet nothing needs to be explained. One is content to let Tolkien caress them and hold them in his loving arms, while reading the book. "Enders Game" is quite similar. And indeed Cards writing style encompasses this feeling quite often. It's one of the things that draws me at least, towards Card in a recreational manner. -Travis "nothing witty this time" Edmunds _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
At 11:51 AM 12/22/03, Horn, John wrote: It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. Well, what do you expect when he only gets to preach for real on the fourth Sunday of every month, and then only on a topic that's assigned to him, and that only for about twenty minutes? From the collection "Hymns We Would Actually Sing": "Come listen to a high councilor drone, And try to stay awake, It's good he speaks just once a month, 'Cuz that's all that we can take. He's given the same talk so many times That even he is bored, If I cannot keep my eyes open I just hope I will not snore." -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
- Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... > > >From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... > >Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:34:44 -0600 > > > >I've read all but Crystal City. > >As a series it is a little uneven..some of the books are great and some > >are a bit marginal, but overall its a very good series. > > > >xponent > >Red Prophet Maru > >rob > > So in other words, it's the Ender series? > No, I would say it is quite a bit better. But then I was never a *big* fan of the Ender series. It's better than mediocre, but not a lot better. xponent Mediocrity Incarnate Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
From: "Robert Seeberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:34:44 -0600 I've read all but Crystal City. As a series it is a little uneven..some of the books are great and some are a bit marginal, but overall its a very good series. xponent Red Prophet Maru rob So in other words, it's the Ender series? -Travis "pondering the superiority/mediocrity of OS Card" Edmunds _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
From: "Horn, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:51:09 -0600 I have read all the ones so far. (I believe the final book has not yet been published. Or perhaps it has and I just don't know it.) I've enjoyed them, for the most part. It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. - jmh That's a mouthfull there about Card. Like you said though, it is to be expected, and I do expect it. Therefore I enjoy his work for what it is: Completely predictable, yet completely enjoyable. Also, Card pulled somewhat of a Terry Pratchett in "Seventh Son". Obscure, abstract notions which usually only thrive in a persons inner thoughts, were quite eloquently transferred to paper in that book. I look forward to reading the entire series. -Travis "the expected/expect it bit was once again quite intentional" Edmunds _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
- Original Message - From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:12 AM Subject: Science Fiction In General... > I finished off "Seventh Son" by OS Card the other day. It's the first book > in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all > the books leading up to and including "The Crystal City"? > > The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate "Seventh Son" above "Enders > Game". Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another > demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. > I've read all but Crystal City. As a series it is a little uneven..some of the books are great and some are a bit marginal, but overall its a very good series. xponent Red Prophet Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
- Original Message - From: "Horn, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... > From: Travis Edmunds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I finished off "Seventh Son" by OS Card the other day. It's > the first book > in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or > perhaps all > the books leading up to and including "The Crystal City"? > > The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate "Seventh Son" > above "Enders > Game". Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another > demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. I have read all the ones so far. (I believe the final book has not yet been published. Or perhaps it has and I just don't know it.) I've enjoyed them, for the most part. It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. ___ Its out in hardback and has been for a few weeks. xponent Held it In My Grubby Paws Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
At 12:12 PM 12/22/2003, you wrote: I finished off "Seventh Son" by OS Card the other day. It's the first book in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all the books leading up to and including "The Crystal City"? The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate "Seventh Son" above "Enders Game". Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. -Travis I've read them, but don't know about Crystal City. I liked the books better than Ender's Game and the sequels. It's certainly not SF, but good nonetheless. So read the rest and enjoy. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
> From: Travis Edmunds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I finished off "Seventh Son" by OS Card the other day. It's > the first book > in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or > perhaps all > the books leading up to and including "The Crystal City"? > > The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate "Seventh Son" > above "Enders > Game". Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another > demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. I have read all the ones so far. (I believe the final book has not yet been published. Or perhaps it has and I just don't know it.) I've enjoyed them, for the most part. It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Science Fiction In General...
I finished off "Seventh Son" by OS Card the other day. It's the first book in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all the books leading up to and including "The Crystal City"? The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate "Seventh Son" above "Enders Game". Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. -Travis _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
On 13 Dec 2003, at 3:24 am, Julia Thompson wrote: William T Goodall wrote: I recently acquired a bunch of old Astounding/Analog and other sf mags from the late 50's and early 60's for next to nothing from a small-town used book store. Somebody died and their collection got bought for pennies. One of them was the Astounding that had the first part of the serialisation of the first part of _Dune_. I think it had a Bonestell cover. Of course, I can't lay my hands on it now...[1] [1] What women call 'tidying up your office' men call 'losing stuff'. That's kind of sexist. Not if it's generally true. My mom put away some xmas cards a couple of years ago and they still haven't been found. My nephew was staying over a couple of weeks ago at my parents so my mum put away his xmas present. Took two days to find it after he left My dad finally found it... In our household, it's the other way 'round. >:) That doesn't surprise me :) -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Mac OS X is a rock-solid system that's beautifully designed. I much prefer it to Linux." - Bill Joy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
William T Goodall wrote: > I recently acquired a bunch of old Astounding/Analog and other sf mags > from the late 50's and early 60's for next to nothing from a small-town > used book store. Somebody died and their collection got bought for > pennies. One of them was the Astounding that had the first part of the > serialisation of the first part of _Dune_. I think it had a Bonestell > cover. Of course, I can't lay my hands on it now...[1] > > [1] What women call 'tidying up your office' men call 'losing stuff'. That's kind of sexist. In our household, it's the other way 'round. >:) Julia now, the kitchen, that's another story -- but Dan knows where things go, it's occasionally a problem when his mom or the nanny doesn't ask where something goes and just assumes incorrectly ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
> [1] What women call 'tidying up your office' men > call 'losing stuff'. And it ends up at the Thrift Store or used book shop for some other unsuspecting sap to buy it so that it can be "tidied" up by the misses and re-enter circulation... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
On 12 Dec 2003, at 5:10 pm, Damon Agretto wrote: Thanks for the recommendations. As for Frank Herbert, I've been anxious to read the Dune series for a while; I STRONGLY reccommend Dune; its probably my #1 fave SF book of all time! If you decide to go with it, I'd also reccommend Dune Messiah, which I found to be a page turner. Some of the later books are not as good, but worth reading if you really like the first two... I recently acquired a bunch of old Astounding/Analog and other sf mags from the late 50's and early 60's for next to nothing from a small-town used book store. Somebody died and their collection got bought for pennies. One of them was the Astounding that had the first part of the serialisation of the first part of _Dune_. I think it had a Bonestell cover. Of course, I can't lay my hands on it now...[1] [1] What women call 'tidying up your office' men call 'losing stuff'. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Mac OS X is a rock-solid system that's beautifully designed. I much prefer it to Linux." - Bill Joy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
Damon Agretto wrote:
> I STRONGLY reccommend Dune; its probably my #1 fave SF
> book of all time! If you decide to go with it, I'd
> also reccommend Dune Messiah, which I found to be a
> page turner. Some of the later books are not as good,
> but worth reading if you really like the first two...
---
Concur with Damon almost. While not my #1 favorite, it is clearly in my Top
10 SF books. IIRC, the last two times Locus Magazine has run its top SF of
all time list, "Dune" has finished #1 both times. ("The Lord of the Rings"
took the fantasy top spot).
Below comments are IMO,
"Dune"Excellent, a must read
"Dune Messiah" Not as good, but okay.
"Children of Dune" Better
"God Emperor of Dune" Okay, but a hard read--much, much dialog and
ponitification by the worm emperor.
"Heretics of Dune" Not bad
"Chapterhouse Dune" Just got it in a recent Amazon shipment--in my
"to read" stack.
George A
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Re: Science Fiction In General...
From: Damon Agretto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:10:00 -0800 (PST) > Thanks for the recommendations. As for Frank > Herbert, I've been anxious to > read the Dune series for a while; I STRONGLY reccommend Dune; its probably my #1 fave SF book of all time! If you decide to go with it, I'd also reccommend Dune Messiah, which I found to be a page turner. Some of the later books are not as good, but worth reading if you really like the first two... Damon. Wow! You really think so highly of that book? Nobody that I know has felt so strongly about it. Considering your opinion though, I may go for it. Either Dune, or some new books in OS Card's "Alvin Maker" series. Has anyone ever read that series? I had heard about it, but was never really enticed. Then the other day, as I was browsing around in the local Chapters bookstore, I spied "Seventh Son", which is the first book in the series, on sale for $4.99 Canadian. If purchased before Dec 29 you get a $4.00 mail in rebate on Card's newest Alvin novel "The Crystal City". Anyway I think it's a decent book. As many bad things as you can say about Card, you can't take away the fact that he's a good writer in the sense of how he writes. When I read his work, I feel as if I'm being cradled in his arms. The only other writer like that is Tolkien. I feel like unto a young child, being swept away into a fantastical dream world. It's great!! -Travis _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
> Thanks for the recommendations. As for Frank > Herbert, I've been anxious to > read the Dune series for a while; I STRONGLY reccommend Dune; its probably my #1 fave SF book of all time! If you decide to go with it, I'd also reccommend Dune Messiah, which I found to be a page turner. Some of the later books are not as good, but worth reading if you really like the first two... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
From: "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General...
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 21:36:19 +0900
William T Goodall wrote:
> Poul Anderson
Read "The Boat of a Million Years"
> John Brunner
"Stand on Zanzibar"
> Lois McMaster Bujold
The entire Miles Vorkosigan Saga ("Memory" is my favorite)
> Thomas M Disch
Non-fiction: "The Dreams Our Stuff Is Made Of" an excellent
discussion
of SF
> Philip Jose Farmer
"To Your Scattered Bodies Go"
> Frank Herbert
"Dune" (Duh!!!)
> Ursula K Le Guin
"The Telling"
> George R R Martin
His "Songs of Ice and Fire" series (When will book four be out???)
> Frederik Pohl
"Gateway" (Easily one of the best SF books ever, IMHO of course)
> Robert Silverberg
"The Alien Years
> Clifford D Simak
"Way Station"
> Neal Stephenson
"Cryptonomicon"
> Bruce Sterling
"Heavy Weather
> Walter Jon Williams
"The Rift"
> Connie Willis
"The Doomday Book"
I just picked my favorites by the authors in the list William listed. This
reading list should keep you busy for a while.
George A
Thanks for the recommendations. As for Frank Herbert, I've been anxious to
read the Dune series for a while; and Clifford D. Simak has crossed my mind
more than once. However, as big a sc-fi buff as I am, I don't read 100%
sci-fi, 100% of the time. So it'd take me a while to get that many sci-fi
authors under my belt. I try to go for the creme de la creme books/series',
as my many interests and time itself inhibit me somewhat from going all out
on our fav genre.
_
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Re: Science Fiction In General...
William T Goodall wrote:
> Poul Anderson
Read "The Boat of a Million Years"
> John Brunner
"Stand on Zanzibar"
> Lois McMaster Bujold
The entire Miles Vorkosigan Saga ("Memory" is my favorite)
> Thomas M Disch
Non-fiction: "The Dreams Our Stuff Is Made Of" an excellent discussion
of SF
> Philip Jose Farmer
"To Your Scattered Bodies Go"
> Frank Herbert
"Dune" (Duh!!!)
> Ursula K Le Guin
"The Telling"
> George R R Martin
His "Songs of Ice and Fire" series (When will book four be out???)
> Frederik Pohl
"Gateway" (Easily one of the best SF books ever, IMHO of course)
> Robert Silverberg
"The Alien Years
> Clifford D Simak
"Way Station"
> Neal Stephenson
"Cryptonomicon"
> Bruce Sterling
"Heavy Weather
> Walter Jon Williams
"The Rift"
> Connie Willis
"The Doomday Book"
I just picked my favorites by the authors in the list William listed. This
reading list should keep you busy for a while.
George A
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Re: Science Fiction In General...
In a message dated 12/11/2003 2:00:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Curiously, there are no cats in Himself's work that I > recall; but Andre Norton makes up for that -- I think > the idea of a 'ship's cat' makes sense (hers were > frequently genegineered for spaceflight). But then > again, I would, wouldn't I? ;) > If we ever get back to the Garthlings, there should be. Historical precedence, don'tcha know. ...and Debbi knows what I'd like Alvin to do with some very large horses. I think Himself would,'t dare to have put cats on Jijo. A Mudfoot thinks: "Tasty." Vilyehm Teighlore ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
On 9 Dec 2003, at 1:17 am, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -David Brin (as evidenced by this post in the first place) You may run into a few of his fans here as well. ;-) -David Gerrold (Star Trek TOS writer/War Against The Chtorr/and a few other interesting books) He also wrote TNG's Encounter at Farpoint. His writing always reminds me of Larry Niven's. Creative and conceptually fascinating, but fast-paced. _The Flying Sorcerers_ (with Niven) was quite funny. _When Harlie was One_ and _The Man who Folded Himself_ were pretty good. I think I read the first in the Chtorr sequence and decided it wasn't my thing, so I haven't read anything more recent. -Terry Pratchett (Discworld series. The "little things" that this man thinks up and transfers to paper are quite outstanding to say the least) I've never read anything by him, but now own a bunch of his books. With luck, I'll start them within the next few weeks. :) Pratchett is great. I started reading the Discworld series when there was one book in it :) Now I tend to fall three or so behind and then catch up. -Anne Rice (Blurs the line of sci-fi/one of the most captivating and talented writers I have ever come across) Her Vampire series was first rate up until she began to blend it with the Talamasca Witches series. On many, many levels, her Witch characters simply don't work for me. Most hardcore Rice fans I've met disagree with me though. Haven't read the Vampire or Witch books, but I quite enjoyed the films. -Arthur C. Clarke (Rama series, that's all I have to say) Great, great classic author. If you like him, I highly recommend a compendium I recently picked up of all his older short stories. (I love old, outdated sci-fi.) Will locate and post the link on Amazon when I find it. I prefer his earlier works. In fact I haven't read anything after _The Fountains of Paradise_. I think my favourite of his is _The City and the Stars_ (vt _Against the Fall of Night_). -Orson Scott Card (Ender series/the champion of the "demigod") I've always felt Card was an author who should have stopped while he was ahead of his game. I enjoyed the Ender series, but... the Bean series is just completely unappealing. I don't like the hero and his novels just don't captivate me. Christopher Columbus was a short story that shouldn't have been stretched into a novel. Ah well. To each his own, huh? He should have stopped the Ender series after the first two. And I found the 'Homecoming' series unreadable. -Ben Bova (Has always held an interest for me, since I read "Mars") Urgh. Bova. He reminds me of Michael Chrichton. Characters that aren't terribly deep and storylines that read like 'treatments' for movies. I'm not a fan. :-) I haven't been impressed by any of his that I have read. -Steve White (Eagle Against The Stars Ok, so it's complete B-side sci-fi, but it's not without it's merit) Oddly enough, I just finished Forge of the Titans a couple of months ago. I'd never heard of him before when my father-in-law handed me the book. It was different, and I enjoyed it. I haven't read any Steve White, but I have read quite a few by his former collaborator, David Weber. -Tolkien (I suppose THAT'S just a given) Heh. I'm almost afraid to ask, but what was your take on the movies? I like the movies, but I was never a huge fan. I read the books two or three times, last time about thirty years ago :) -Various Star Trek and Star Wars novels tend to find their way into my personal library. IMO, Peter David's the only one worth reading. :) I'm not into media tie-ins and novelizations and such. -I also love the Stargate Universe (For those of you who may share that interest) I watch the show on occasion... but I've never really gotten deeply into it. I like Stargate (the series). Despite being a spin-off of a mediocre film with a rather dire premise it is actually quite a good sf series. And probably the best that is left now :( -Michael Chrichton is certainly noteworthy. Ugh. Ugh. and Ugh. :-D I didn't like the films and I haven't read the books. Well, that's enough for now. I look forward to perhaps SOME degree of extrapolation, and/or expansion on the subject of "Science Fiction In General" Well, how about these authors. Have you read any of them? Robert Heinlein (Stranger in a Strange Land, Starship Troopers, Time Enough for Love, etc.,) I read all of the early Heinlein, struggled through various dreadful 1970's Heinlein disasters (_I Will Fear No Evil_ ...) before abandoning him. I read _Friday_ because it was supposed to be a return to form, and it was better but not up to the old standards. Iain Banks (Culture Series) That&#x
