Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Ben e-mail be...@cisco.com From: brian.sch...@vitalsite.com To: rrcr...@yahoo.com; leslie.me...@lvs1.com Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:29:14 + CC: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his position in Cisco. www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940 Profile on the Cisco site. https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful arguments on this? Brian -Original Message- From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM To: Leslie Meade Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_ tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
There's a serious fault with this new announcement.
We can't say this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration it should be CCIE
Voice version 4. CCIE Voice track should be allowed to continue with this
new v4 blueprint.
If Cisco want to add another CCIE Collaboration Track they have to add
additional products such as WebEx Server , VCS , Telepresence MSE ,
Telepresence Multipoint Switch , Telepresence Server , Telepresence Manager
, TMS suitable endpoints.
Then current CCIE Voice guys will be more than happy to complete their
Collaboration certification become dual CCIEs. It will be definitely a
career advancement path for them.
If Cisco can call this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration ; why can't
they call all current voice CCIE's as Collaboration CCIEs.?
Ken
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Mohammed Al-Assadi
m_alass...@hotmail.comwrote:
Ben e-mail
be...@cisco.com
From: brian.sch...@vitalsite.com
To: rrcr...@yahoo.com; leslie.me...@lvs1.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:29:14 +
CC: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his
position in Cisco.
www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940
Profile on the Cisco site.
https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html
Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful
arguments on this?
Brian
-Original Message-
From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:
ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM
To: Leslie Meade
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Ben Ng comes to mind
On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote:
The question is... what if anything can we do ?
Where would we start..
Original message
From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com
Date:
To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com
Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi
vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially
announced
Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to
remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is
Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look
at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the
name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice
blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a
refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing
another.
In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start
over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the
two.
On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:
whl...@gmail.com wrote:
Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they
retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or
lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag.
That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the
first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have
several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we
would want official confirmation.
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_
tracks
Retired CCIE tracks
Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by
Cisco. These are:
* WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the
IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition)
* ISP Dial CCIE
* SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue)
* Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different
design tests in format and subjects examined)
People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs,
provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the
title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization.
So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of
CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have
already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that
have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal.
Bill
On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com
mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote:
Vik,
A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice
is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass
Voice
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
It is not more than CCIE voice v3.5 it is not v.4 even
Sent from my iPhone
On May 31, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Ken Wyan kew...@gmail.com wrote:
There's a serious fault with this new announcement.
We can't say this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration it should be CCIE
Voice version 4. CCIE Voice track should be allowed to continue with this new
v4 blueprint.
If Cisco want to add another CCIE Collaboration Track they have to add
additional products such as WebEx Server , VCS , Telepresence MSE ,
Telepresence Multipoint Switch , Telepresence Server , Telepresence Manager ,
TMS suitable endpoints.
Then current CCIE Voice guys will be more than happy to complete their
Collaboration certification become dual CCIEs. It will be definitely a
career advancement path for them.
If Cisco can call this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration ; why can't
they call all current voice CCIE's as Collaboration CCIEs.?
Ken
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Mohammed Al-Assadi m_alass...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Ben e-mail
be...@cisco.com
From: brian.sch...@vitalsite.com
To: rrcr...@yahoo.com; leslie.me...@lvs1.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:29:14 +
CC: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his
position in Cisco.
www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940
Profile on the Cisco site.
https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html
Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful
arguments on this?
Brian
-Original Message-
From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM
To: Leslie Meade
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Ben Ng comes to mind
On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote:
The question is... what if anything can we do ?
Where would we start..
Original message
From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com
Date:
To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com
Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi
vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially
announced
Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain
CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice
and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at
it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the
name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice
blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a
refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing
another.
In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start
over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between
the two.
On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake
whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote:
Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they
retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or
lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag.
That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the
first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have
several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so
we would want official confirmation.
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_
tracks
Retired CCIE tracks
Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco.
These are:
* WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the
IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the
StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition)
* ISP Dial CCIE
* SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue)
* Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different
design tests in format and subjects examined)
People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs,
provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the
title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization.
So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE
if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have
already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that
have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal.
Bill
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
My response to Cisco via my blog. Tweeted to @LearningatCisco. Just more line
noise for them to review and/or toss.
CCIE Needs its Voice Back http://bit.ly/138dBGS #FixCCIEVoice
--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla
On May 31, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Ken Wyan kew...@gmail.com wrote:
There's a serious fault with this new announcement.
We can't say this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration it should be CCIE
Voice version 4. CCIE Voice track should be allowed to continue with this new
v4 blueprint.
If Cisco want to add another CCIE Collaboration Track they have to add
additional products such as WebEx Server , VCS , Telepresence MSE ,
Telepresence Multipoint Switch , Telepresence Server , Telepresence Manager ,
TMS suitable endpoints.
Then current CCIE Voice guys will be more than happy to complete their
Collaboration certification become dual CCIEs. It will be definitely a
career advancement path for them.
If Cisco can call this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration ; why can't
they call all current voice CCIE's as Collaboration CCIEs.?
Ken
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Mohammed Al-Assadi m_alass...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Ben e-mail
be...@cisco.com
From: brian.sch...@vitalsite.com
To: rrcr...@yahoo.com; leslie.me...@lvs1.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:29:14 +
CC: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his
position in Cisco.
www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940
Profile on the Cisco site.
https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html
Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful
arguments on this?
Brian
-Original Message-
From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM
To: Leslie Meade
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Ben Ng comes to mind
On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote:
The question is... what if anything can we do ?
Where would we start..
Original message
From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com
Date:
To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com
Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi
vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially
announced
Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain
CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and
Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it
all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of
the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is
still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of
current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another.
In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over
again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two.
On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake
whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote:
Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they
retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or
lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag.
That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the
first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have
several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we
would want official confirmation.
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_
tracks
Retired CCIE tracks
Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco.
These are:
* WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the
IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the
StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition)
* ISP Dial CCIE
* SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue)
* Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different
design tests in format and subjects examined)
People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs,
provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the
title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization.
So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE
if you pass the voice lab, it might
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
That is a fair comment. On re-read that paragraph is unclear and implies
insider knowledge. I will edit accordingly. FYI, I was basis the content on
information exchanged with people involved in the IE program but not in Cisco.
I should have had my legal team review it. Just kidding. I don't have a legal
team.
Thanks,
Bill
--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
twitter: @ucguerrilla
On May 31, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote:
Hi Bill,
Great post as always.
From you post, Oh, just in case you missed it. This is a marketing
decision. The decision to kick out the voice IEs was made by someone (or some
group) that has no freakin' idea how much time, energy, money, and effort
people put into getting an IE, any IE. Well, maybe they know about the money
bit because they have to be aware that the Voice IE had a higher average
attempt rate
I am wondering about this bit concerning marketing. I trust you have a
credible source for this. I don't doubt that the name changing stuff is for
brand and marketing reason. I am not so sure that the real reason to
consciously not providing the smooth transition for the current CCIE Voice
holder is because of the marketing reason. (**Note: I must stress that I did
not use the term Marketing team)I don't think it is in the Marketing
team's interest, one way or another, whether a grandfather status is given.
I think it is **much** easier to adopt the traditional method of
grandfathering the cert, than to go against that tradition.
It could be as simple as an oversight, but if it is deliberate, then I am
curious to see what factor contribute the most to the final decision.I
don't think **money** from test taker is a serious part of it. ($6 - $10
millions is not significant enough for the company of that size)
Any insider viewpoint would be much welcome!
Regards,
--Somphol.
--Somphol
On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 2:07 AM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote:
My response to Cisco via my blog. Tweeted to @LearningatCisco. Just more line
noise for them to review and/or toss.
CCIE Needs its Voice Back http://bit.ly/138dBGS #FixCCIEVoice
--
William Bell, CCIE #38914
blog: http://ucguerrilla.com
Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla
On May 31, 2013, at 4:45 AM, Ken Wyan kew...@gmail.com wrote:
There's a serious fault with this new announcement.
We can't say this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration it should be CCIE
Voice version 4. CCIE Voice track should be allowed to continue with this
new v4 blueprint.
If Cisco want to add another CCIE Collaboration Track they have to add
additional products such as WebEx Server , VCS , Telepresence MSE ,
Telepresence Multipoint Switch , Telepresence Server , Telepresence Manager
, TMS suitable endpoints.
Then current CCIE Voice guys will be more than happy to complete their
Collaboration certification become dual CCIEs. It will be definitely a
career advancement path for them.
If Cisco can call this new blueprint as CCIE Collaboration ; why can't
they call all current voice CCIE's as Collaboration CCIEs.?
Ken
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Mohammed Al-Assadi m_alass...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Ben e-mail
be...@cisco.com
From: brian.sch...@vitalsite.com
To: rrcr...@yahoo.com; leslie.me...@lvs1.com
Date: Thu, 30 May 2013 13:29:14 +
CC: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his
position in Cisco.
www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940
Profile on the Cisco site.
https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html
Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful
arguments on this?
Brian
-Original Message-
From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com
[mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM
To: Leslie Meade
Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Ben Ng comes to mind
On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote:
The question is... what if anything can we do ?
Where would we start..
Original message
From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com
Date:
To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com
Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi
vma...@ipexpert.com
Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially
announced
Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain
CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice
and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Could not say it any better Sent from my iPad On May 29, 2013, at 11:28 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: Brian, That was a great write up. Thanks -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 30, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Brian Schear brian.sch...@vitalsite.commailto:brian.sch...@vitalsite.com wrote: My 2 cents. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611 From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.commailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.commailto:boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf OfWilliam Bell Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:28 PM To: somp...@gmail.commailto:somp...@gmail.com Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.commailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced You can also post to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cisco.Learning) or this thread on the Cisco learning community (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56590?tstart=0). The learning community also has Google+ and other social media accounts. There is one team that manages most of the social media and another team that manages the learning community. I am sure they will listen and bubble up the input they receive. Volume counts. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote: Bill, Thanks for the twitter account, I just send out my feedback too. I think another point that needs clarification I think is what guidelines is used to EOL the certification? Without transparency, the risk to have sudden and unexplained EOL announcement of any CCIE track can be very real. Without the guideline, no one would know in advance whether CCIE Collaboration will be retired and the new track is created as CCIE Synergy when CUCM is upgraded to version 14.1 in 3-5 years?What makes us think this is a one off? What if the guidelines clearly stated that if the material changes for 30%, the track will be retired and a new track will be created? (What if this is an implicit guideline on their port?)Will people still think it is worth the effort? The lack of transparency and guidelines on how the decision is reached make the CCIE cert easily one of the most risky investment of time and commitment. It is hard, required high level of commitment and can be short-lived without proper communication upfront. By the way, I don't think Cisco will lose money over this. Imaging a few year from now, CCIE Voice will be faded away and will totally be useless. All the job ads will be for CCIE Collaboration. Do you think more and more former CCIE Voice will reset the CCIE Collaboration lab knowing that the new material is not that much anyway. The exam however is tricky and picky, and on average it take some thing like 3.xx times to pass it. (OK, I will discount it to 2 attempts for former CCIE Voice) So assuming 50% of exiting CCIE Voice holders -- appx 1500 - 2000 of them takes this path, Cisco wouldn't be losing revenue do they? 2000 (50% of current CCIE Voice Holder) x $1500 (Lab cost) x 2 (On average, two attempts) = $6,000,000.- Mind you that $6 million is nothing for the company of its size, but the point is they won't be losing money. --Somphol On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:31 AM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert. BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is @LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. Of course I recommend being polite. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.comhttp://ucguerrilla.com/ twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: I thought so too. I could see if it was getting obnoxious but all of the comments were pretty professional. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.comhttp://ucguerrilla.com/ twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.commailto:rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Agreed, nailed it! Jamie Parr CCIE #38633 (voice) Engineer - IT jamp...@cisco.com Phone: +44 20 8824 2641 Mobile: +44 7590622049 -Original Message- From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Meade Sent: 30 May 2013 07:42 To: William Bell Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Could not say it any better Sent from my iPad On May 29, 2013, at 11:28 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: Brian, That was a great write up. Thanks -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 30, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Brian Schear brian.sch...@vitalsite.commailto:brian.sch...@vitalsite.com wrote: My 2 cents. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611 From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.commailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.commailto:boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf OfWilliam Bell Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:28 PM To: somp...@gmail.commailto:somp...@gmail.com Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.commailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced You can also post to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cisco.Learning) or this thread on the Cisco learning community (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56590?tstart=0). The learning community also has Google+ and other social media accounts. There is one team that manages most of the social media and another team that manages the learning community. I am sure they will listen and bubble up the input they receive. Volume counts. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote: Bill, Thanks for the twitter account, I just send out my feedback too. I think another point that needs clarification I think is what guidelines is used to EOL the certification? Without transparency, the risk to have sudden and unexplained EOL announcement of any CCIE track can be very real. Without the guideline, no one would know in advance whether CCIE Collaboration will be retired and the new track is created as CCIE Synergy when CUCM is upgraded to version 14.1 in 3-5 years?What makes us think this is a one off? What if the guidelines clearly stated that if the material changes for 30%, the track will be retired and a new track will be created? (What if this is an implicit guideline on their port?)Will people still think it is worth the effort? The lack of transparency and guidelines on how the decision is reached make the CCIE cert easily one of the most risky investment of time and commitment. It is hard, required high level of commitment and can be short-lived without proper communication upfront. By the way, I don't think Cisco will lose money over this. Imaging a few year from now, CCIE Voice will be faded away and will totally be useless. All the job ads will be for CCIE Collaboration. Do you think more and more former CCIE Voice will reset the CCIE Collaboration lab knowing that the new material is not that much anyway. The exam however is tricky and picky, and on average it take some thing like 3.xx times to pass it. (OK, I will discount it to 2 attempts for former CCIE Voice) So assuming 50% of exiting CCIE Voice holders -- appx 1500 - 2000 of them takes this path, Cisco wouldn't be losing revenue do they? 2000 (50% of current CCIE Voice Holder) x $1500 (Lab cost) x 2 (On average, two attempts) = $6,000,000.- Mind you that $6 million is nothing for the company of its size, but the point is they won't be losing money. --Somphol On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:31 AM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert. BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is @LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. Of course I recommend being polite. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.comhttp://ucguerrilla.com/ twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: I thought so too. I could see if it was getting obnoxious but all of the comments were pretty professional. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.comhttp://ucguerrilla.com/ twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Over 500 views and 10 comments overnight. I suspect passing along the link and trying to get as many comments as possible would be good. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611 Brian -Original Message- From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Parr (jamparr) Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:38 AM To: Leslie Meade; William Bell Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Agreed, nailed it! Jamie Parr CCIE #38633 (voice) Engineer - IT jamp...@cisco.com Phone: +44 20 8824 2641 Mobile: +44 7590622049 -Original Message- From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Leslie Meade Sent: 30 May 2013 07:42 To: William Bell Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Could not say it any better Sent from my iPad On May 29, 2013, at 11:28 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: Brian, That was a great write up. Thanks -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 30, 2013, at 1:11 AM, Brian Schear brian.sch...@vitalsite.commailto:brian.sch...@vitalsite.com wrote: My 2 cents. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56611 From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.commailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.commailto:boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf OfWilliam Bell Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 10:28 PM To: somp...@gmail.commailto:somp...@gmail.com Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.commailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced You can also post to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cisco.Learning) or this thread on the Cisco learning community (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56590?tstart=0). The learning community also has Google+ and other social media accounts. There is one team that manages most of the social media and another team that manages the learning community. I am sure they will listen and bubble up the input they receive. Volume counts. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote: Bill, Thanks for the twitter account, I just send out my feedback too. I think another point that needs clarification I think is what guidelines is used to EOL the certification? Without transparency, the risk to have sudden and unexplained EOL announcement of any CCIE track can be very real. Without the guideline, no one would know in advance whether CCIE Collaboration will be retired and the new track is created as CCIE Synergy when CUCM is upgraded to version 14.1 in 3-5 years?What makes us think this is a one off? What if the guidelines clearly stated that if the material changes for 30%, the track will be retired and a new track will be created? (What if this is an implicit guideline on their port?)Will people still think it is worth the effort? The lack of transparency and guidelines on how the decision is reached make the CCIE cert easily one of the most risky investment of time and commitment. It is hard, required high level of commitment and can be short-lived without proper communication upfront. By the way, I don't think Cisco will lose money over this. Imaging a few year from now, CCIE Voice will be faded away and will totally be useless. All the job ads will be for CCIE Collaboration. Do you think more and more former CCIE Voice will reset the CCIE Collaboration lab knowing that the new material is not that much anyway. The exam however is tricky and picky, and on average it take some thing like 3.xx times to pass it. (OK, I will discount it to 2 attempts for former CCIE Voice) So assuming 50% of exiting CCIE Voice holders -- appx 1500 - 2000 of them takes this path, Cisco wouldn't be losing revenue do they? 2000 (50% of current CCIE Voice Holder) x $1500 (Lab cost) x 2 (On average, two attempts) = $6,000,000.- Mind you that $6 million is nothing for the company of its size, but the point is they won't be losing money. --Somphol On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:31 AM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.commailto:b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert. BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is @LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. Of course I recommend being polite. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.comhttp://ucguerrilla.com/ twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: I thought so
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Watching this video is ironic: Ben Ng at Cisco Live 2012: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23271405 But you can hear where the idea for the new name came from. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Brian Schear brian.sch...@vitalsite.comwrote: It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his position in Cisco. www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940 Profile on the Cisco site. https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful arguments on this? Brian -Original Message- From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM To: Leslie Meade Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto: whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_ tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Cisco: Provide a reasonable transition path from CCIE Voice to CCIE Collaboration - Sign the Petition! Please join this campaign: http://chn.ge/17A0zXE On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:01 PM, probert...@gmail.com probert...@gmail.comwrote: Watching this video is ironic: Ben Ng at Cisco Live 2012: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23271405 But you can hear where the idea for the new name came from. On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Brian Schear brian.sch...@vitalsite.comwrote: It is Ben Ng. Found his linked in profile below which describes his position in Cisco. www.linkedin.com/pub/ben-ng/3/509/940 Profile on the Cisco site. https://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le31/communities/netpro/bios/benng.html Anyone have better contact info to send him respectful and thoughtful arguments on this? Brian -Original Message- From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Rrcrumm Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 11:11 AM To: Leslie Meade Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto: whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_ tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
all, but where is it in Cisco that said CCIE voice need to take Collaboration. if active CCIE voice keep renewing thru written, they will keep the number. From: m george m.george00...@gmail.com To: Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:16:01 PM Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced This is quite ridiculous ! All other tracks (RS/SP) have gone through massive changes but they were retained. Even Security CCIE track has recently gone through 50% more overlap (ISE/WSA/ACS/WLC/AP what not is new) but they didn't rename it retire old one. If you look at CCIE Collaboration equipment list topics, you won't find any significant different other than TP/Jabber/InterCluster stuff which is like 15%-20% new stuff. It's so pathetic on cisco's part that they didn't value the years hardwork effort of engineers to attain Voice CCIE. I know guys who sat lab like 7 times, some even 10 times to pass. when they have finally passed this extremely tough lab, you are throwing their CCIE number in gutter by retiring a CCIE certification. Will people go for CCIE Voice lab now ? Probably NOT i bet this will be only track for which there won't be rush to complete certification. it's an extremely disappointing thing what Cisco has done. Cisco should protect investment made by tens of hundreds of engineers for years rather than giving them a retired track. For a guy who passed lab on 7th attempt recently is a Voice CCIE , will Cisco give him free vouchers 7 times to sit Collaboration CCIE now ? Morally , they should. Practically, they won't. It doesn't make sense to me . Does it make sense to anyone among you ? If so, please explain how. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit http://www.ipexpert.com/ Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out http://www.platinumplacement.com/ ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
I am guessing this is a marketing decision and the technical folks feared this backlash, hence the delay in the announcement. It makes no sense whatsoever, especially as the blueprint change seems to be fairly minimal. On May 28, 2013, at 21:16, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: This is quite ridiculous ! All other tracks (RS/SP) have gone through massive changes but they were retained. Even Security CCIE track has recently gone through 50% more overlap (ISE/WSA/ACS/WLC/AP what not is new) but they didn't rename it retire old one. If you look at CCIE Collaboration equipment list topics, you won't find any significant different other than TP/Jabber/InterCluster stuff which is like 15%-20% new stuff. It's so pathetic on cisco's part that they didn't value the years hardwork effort of engineers to attain Voice CCIE. I know guys who sat lab like 7 times, some even 10 times to pass. when they have finally passed this extremely tough lab, you are throwing their CCIE number in gutter by retiring a CCIE certification. Will people go for CCIE Voice lab now ? Probably NOT i bet this will be only track for which there won't be rush to complete certification. it's an extremely disappointing thing what Cisco has done. Cisco should protect investment made by tens of hundreds of engineers for years rather than giving them a retired track. For a guy who passed lab on 7th attempt recently is a Voice CCIE , will Cisco give him free vouchers 7 times to sit Collaboration CCIE now ? Morally , they should. Practically, they won't. It doesn't make sense to me . Does it make sense to anyone among you ? If so, please explain how. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it Marketing bullying the content team? At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid check and balance. It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone the means through which that is possible). When the dust has settled I will be advising all existing voice IE's two things: look at this as an extra challenge that will reap extra reward and secondly - diversify. Collaboration expertise in the very literal sense cannot be confined to a monolithic single vendor application time test that is going to occur . I would have thought a true collaboration expert would (if not now, never) be encouraged to seek skills and experience from a wider spectrum of vendors. Rant over. On May 28, 2013, at 20:14, Hesham Abdelkereem heshamcentr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes its really frustrating what Cisco is doing to us. Ok let me tell you this. People now have invested a lot of money in pursuing their CCIE Voice that includes (Verious Workbook fees , Rack Rentals , Home Lab building , travel expenses and Lab fees attempts for whatever times) So when people achieve CCIE Voice nowadays a year or two later it would be considered old and grandfathered. Also , Cisco has released a new lab for 2 months while they are planning to abolish the whole syllabus. Why they do that to us They already make money out of everything especially lab multiple times of lab attempts per each person. CCIE Voice achievers has to send cisco request for Migration without Lab test. CCVP it was automatically migrated to CCNP Voice without any additional tests. CCNA is migrated to CCNA R/S without any additional tests. In case of Video part then I suggest whether they force CCIE Voice people to make CCNA VIDEO or CCNP Video if they will release or they make just a migration lab track that includes VIDEO stuff only for a cheaper fee something like $500. Thats same for MICROSOFT they abolished MCSE to change it to MCITP people usually just add 2 tracks to become full MCITP same when they migrate to new MCSE (Microsoft Certified Solutions Experts) there is only an upgrade track rather than taking the whole 5 tracks again. Cisco obviously has to do something like that.It's really unfair retiring the whole cisco voice totally. Guys to make the new Collaboration lab that would cost anyone over 50K to buy telepresence , X9XX routers stuff , 9971 Video Phones , TV's and etc.. Even the rack rentals would be 5 times the old voice track as the equipment would be way more expensive. Seriously , We have to agree all of us from multiple different voice study group to have a migration track to Collaboration please share your thoughts guys On 28 May 2013 18:56, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Bummer, I was really hoping CCIE Voice candidates would transition to Collaboration without any additional lab exams. On May 28, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Correct. CCIE voice will always be certified providing they recert every two years. But there is a blemish being an IE in something that is obsolete. On May 28, 2013, at 23:14, Karen Johnson karen.johnson...@yahoo.ca wrote: all, but where is it in Cisco that said CCIE voice need to take Collaboration. if active CCIE voice keep renewing thru written, they will keep the number. From: m george m.george00...@gmail.com To: Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:16:01 PM Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced This is quite ridiculous ! All other tracks (RS/SP) have gone through massive changes but they were retained. Even Security CCIE track has recently gone through 50% more overlap (ISE/WSA/ACS/WLC/AP what not is new) but they didn't rename it retire old one. If you look at CCIE Collaboration equipment list topics, you won't find any significant different other than TP/Jabber/InterCluster stuff which is like 15%-20% new stuff. It's so pathetic on cisco's part that they didn't value the years hardwork effort of engineers to attain Voice CCIE. I know guys who sat lab like 7 times, some even 10 times to pass. when they have finally passed this extremely tough lab, you are throwing their CCIE number in gutter by retiring a CCIE certification. Will people go for CCIE Voice lab now ? Probably NOT i bet this will be only track for which there won't be rush to complete certification. it's an extremely disappointing thing what Cisco has done. Cisco should protect investment made by tens of hundreds of engineers for years rather than giving them a retired track. For a guy who passed lab on 7th attempt recently is a Voice CCIE , will Cisco give him free vouchers 7 times to sit Collaboration CCIE now ? Morally , they should. Practically, they won't. It doesn't make sense to me . Does it make sense to anyone among you ? If so, please explain how. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit http://www.ipexpert.com/ Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out http://www.platinumplacement.com/ ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
I am one of those who cleared the exam 4 months back. And there will be many who have cleared it in last 6 months whose efforts seem to have gone in vain (not entirely though). I wonder what would be the state of mind of guys who have the Lab scheduled in the next 90 days and have made the payments. I reckon Cisco will definitely have to think this one over. I believe they respect the cert and hope that there will an alternative upgrade path for IE Voice holders to gain Collab IE. Looking at the syllabus, this is definitely not a game changer but a natural evolution of the voice domain. I hope sense prevails. Ciao Mann Chaddha CCIE Voice # 37926 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:44 AM, ccie_voice-requ...@onlinestudylist.comwrote: Send CCIE_Voice mailing list submissions to ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://onlinestudylist.com/mailman/listinfo/ccie_voice or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ccie_voice-requ...@onlinestudylist.com You can reach the person managing the list at ccie_voice-ow...@onlinestudylist.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of CCIE_Voice digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: CCIE Collaboration officially announced (m george) 2. Re: CCIE Collaboration officially announced (Hesham Abdelkereem) (Kamran Ahsanullah) 3. Re: CCIE Collaboration officially announced (Karen Johnson) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:16:01 +0500 From: m george m.george00...@gmail.com To: Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Message-ID: CANY2= oybmklx5ysn8vvhgcurrzjr_vn2l_u_w35frdcduuc...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 This is quite ridiculous ! All other tracks (RS/SP) have gone through massive changes but they were retained. Even Security CCIE track has recently gone through 50% more overlap (ISE/WSA/ACS/WLC/AP what not is new) but they didn't rename it retire old one. If you look at CCIE Collaboration equipment list topics, you won't find any significant different other than TP/Jabber/InterCluster stuff which is like 15%-20% new stuff. It's so pathetic on cisco's part that they didn't value the years hardwork effort of engineers to attain Voice CCIE. I know guys who sat lab like 7 times, some even 10 times to pass. when they have finally passed this extremely tough lab, you are throwing their CCIE number in gutter by retiring a CCIE certification. Will people go for CCIE Voice lab now ? Probably NOT i bet this will be only track for which there won't be rush to complete certification. it's an extremely disappointing thing what Cisco has done. Cisco should protect investment made by tens of hundreds of engineers for years rather than giving them a retired track. For a guy who passed lab on 7th attempt recently is a Voice CCIE , will Cisco give him free vouchers 7 times to sit Collaboration CCIE now ? Morally , they should. Practically, they won't. It doesn't make sense to me . Does it make sense to anyone among you ? If so, please explain how. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:08 AM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi ? CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /archives/ccie_voice/attachments/20130529/d196fa09/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 09:12:40 +0300 From: Kamran Ahsanullah kamran.ahsanul...@gmail.com To: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced (Hesham Abdelkereem) Message-ID: CAMxg9ifLB=6DVJUHPoY13t8dXkKOuTrsW9A= 5dsje8qgqfv...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hesham, if you have a Voice CCIE already or pass before Feb 2013,you will return your CCIE Voice. That will not be taken away from you. How can you expect to be awarded the CCIE Collaboration if you haven't passed or sat it. Kamran On 29 May 2013 06:37, ccie_voice-requ...@onlinestudylist.com wrote: Send CCIE_Voice mailing list submissions to ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://onlinestudylist.com
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it Marketing bullying the content team? At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid check and balance. It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone the means through which that is possible). When the dust has settled I will be advising all existing voice IE's two things: look at this as an extra challenge that will reap extra reward and secondly - diversify. Collaboration expertise in the very literal sense cannot be confined to a monolithic single vendor application time test that is going to occur . I would have thought a true collaboration expert would (if not now, never) be encouraged to seek skills and experience from a wider spectrum of vendors. Rant over. On May 28, 2013, at 20:14, Hesham Abdelkereem heshamcentr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes its really frustrating what Cisco is doing to us. Ok let me tell you this. People now have invested a lot of money in pursuing their CCIE Voice that includes (Verious Workbook fees , Rack Rentals , Home Lab building , travel expenses and Lab fees attempts for whatever times) So when people achieve CCIE Voice nowadays a year or two later it would be considered old and grandfathered. Also , Cisco has released a new lab for 2 months while they are planning to abolish the whole syllabus. Why they do that to us They already make money out of everything especially lab multiple times of lab attempts per each person. CCIE Voice achievers has to send cisco request for Migration without Lab test. CCVP it was automatically migrated to CCNP Voice without any additional tests. CCNA is migrated to CCNA R/S without any additional tests. In case of Video part then I suggest whether they force CCIE Voice people to make CCNA VIDEO or CCNP Video if they will release or they make just a migration lab track that includes VIDEO stuff only for a cheaper fee something like $500. Thats same for MICROSOFT they abolished MCSE to change it to MCITP people usually just add 2 tracks to become full MCITP same when they migrate to new MCSE (Microsoft Certified Solutions Experts) there is only an upgrade track rather than taking the whole 5 tracks again. Cisco obviously has to do something like that.It's really unfair retiring the whole cisco voice totally. Guys to make the new Collaboration lab that would cost anyone over 50K to buy telepresence , X9XX routers stuff , 9971 Video Phones , TV's and etc.. Even the rack rentals would be 5 times the old voice track as the equipment would be way more expensive. Seriously , We have to agree all of us from multiple different voice study group to have a migration track to Collaboration please share your thoughts guys On 28 May 2013 18:56, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Bummer, I was really hoping CCIE Voice candidates would transition to Collaboration without any additional lab exams. On May 28, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: - WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataComacquisition) - ISP Dial CCIE - SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) - Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it Marketing bullying the content team? At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid check and balance. It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone the means through which that is possible). When the dust has settled I will be advising all existing voice IE's two things: look at this as an extra challenge that will reap extra reward and secondly - diversify. Collaboration expertise in the very literal sense cannot be confined to a monolithic single vendor application time test that is going to occur . I would have thought a true collaboration expert would (if not now, never) be encouraged to seek skills and experience from a wider spectrum of vendors. Rant over. On May 28, 2013, at 20:14, Hesham Abdelkereem heshamcentr...@gmail.com wrote: Yes its really frustrating what Cisco is doing to us. Ok let me tell you this. People now have invested a lot of money in pursuing their CCIE Voice that includes (Verious Workbook fees , Rack Rentals , Home Lab building , travel expenses and Lab fees attempts for whatever times) So when people achieve CCIE Voice nowadays a year or two later it would be considered old and grandfathered. Also , Cisco has released a new lab for 2 months while they are planning to abolish the whole syllabus. Why they do that to us They already make money out of everything especially lab multiple times of lab attempts per each person. CCIE Voice achievers has to send
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Agreed, I passed my lab early this year. I spent a lot of time and energy passing this lab and to have it retire and devalue is truly a disappointment. My plan originally was to renew the first time with CCIE RS then second by passing my RS lab. Looks like plans will change again. Bill Sent from my iPad On May 29, 2013, at 7:29 AM, Chrysostomos Christofi ch.christ...@logicom.net wrote: Bill All that you say its good Yes you can keep the CCIE number BUT the problem here is that the CCIE VOICE , unfortunately will not have a value in the market because is retiring the collaboration will take place and the value for the CCIE V will be lost in the years (like others ccie certifications) Yes the number will remain , yes the company can use your ccie number BUT your ccie certification will not have the proportionate value I am very sad to say that but I believe that this is the true Regards Chrysostomos From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lake Sent: 29 May 2013 14:10 To: m george Cc: OSL Group; Vik Malhi Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom acquisition) ISP Dial CCIE SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it Marketing bullying the content team? At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid check and balance. It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone the means through which that is possible
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom acquisition) ISP Dial CCIE SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it Marketing bullying the content team? At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid check and balance. It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone the means through which that is possible). When the dust has settled I will be advising all existing voice IE's two things: look at this as an extra challenge that will reap extra reward and secondly - diversify. Collaboration expertise in the very literal sense cannot be confined to a monolithic single vendor application time test that is going to occur . I would have thought a true collaboration expert would (if not now, never) be encouraged to seek skills and experience from a wider spectrum of vendors.
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.commailto:vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it Marketing bullying the content team? At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid check and balance. It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know a 2nd grader could pass one of those exams (and I don't condone the means through which that is possible). When the dust has settled I will be advising all existing voice IE's two things: look
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
I agree that in retiring the exam and requiring that you retake the lab portion again is incomprehensible. They can't tell me that the RS hasn't changed as much or more over its lifetime. It is still the same but they did not retire it (well maybe that is the plan, retire them all and make you earn new) so if you got your RS 10 years or 10 days ago you are CCIE RS. You can easily say the same for others but you get the idea. I think that this is marketing and even so they could have easily done exactly what they did with CCVP to CCNP Voice. When you renew, you do so by passing the CCIE Collaboration written exam (which they make more like the others with some interactive tasks) and you then renew as a CCIE Collaboration. I just think we should stop complaining, organize the CCIE voice community and ask nicely, demand persuasively and argue smartly to get them to change their minds about having to take the lab again to move to CCIE Collaboration. What they have done is weaken in my mind what I strove so hard to earn Bill On 5/29/13, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom acquisition) ISP Dial CCIE SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
VIk/IPExpert Team, Does anyone knows who the Program Manager is for Upcoming Collaboration Track ? We need to voice our concerns to PM's direct email address on Cisco Support Community. That's only way, we will be heard. Let's hope Cisco listens to us. Regards, On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that in retiring the exam and requiring that you retake the lab portion again is incomprehensible. They can't tell me that the RS hasn't changed as much or more over its lifetime. It is still the same but they did not retire it (well maybe that is the plan, retire them all and make you earn new) so if you got your RS 10 years or 10 days ago you are CCIE RS. You can easily say the same for others but you get the idea. I think that this is marketing and even so they could have easily done exactly what they did with CCVP to CCNP Voice. When you renew, you do so by passing the CCIE Collaboration written exam (which they make more like the others with some interactive tasks) and you then renew as a CCIE Collaboration. I just think we should stop complaining, organize the CCIE voice community and ask nicely, demand persuasively and argue smartly to get them to change their minds about having to take the lab again to move to CCIE Collaboration. What they have done is weaken in my mind what I strove so hard to earn Bill On 5/29/13, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom acquisition) ISP Dial CCIE SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.commailto:vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products in the exam? Are Microsoft are not relevant or it Marketing bullying the content team? At the same time there are many folks out there with a voice IE who can't spell SIP. So what do you do about those folks? Historically Cisco have trusted their recertification process as a valid check and balance. It looks like they have lost a bit of faith in the written exams as a valid means to recertification- and that is no surprise to any of us as we all know a 2nd
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
When you have a group of people that share an opinion, you need to organize that group of people so that they can speak as one voice. It is called Unified Communications for a reason! The key is to have this group opinion communicated across multiple mediums in a consistent and persistent manner. Basically, you have to market your message. Twitter, FB, and the Cisco Communities are good target mediums if you want to get Cisco's attention. Finding out who is in charge of the IE Voice/Collaboration program and getting their email is another medium. Though, the recipient of said email bomb won't look on that with favorable eyes and it may be counterproductive. Bitching for the sake of bitching won't work. You also have to make sure your argument is one that has a chance of appealing to the other party's willingness or ability to make a compromise. For instance, bitching at Cisco and saying they should rethink retiring the IE voice and grandfather us in may not work. However, launching a campaign to convince them that there should be an alternate path for the IE voice to upgrade their IE may provide a more workable compromise. Thus far I have spoken about organizing our complaints to get attention and putting out a message that provides a reasonable and workable compromise. Cisco has and will listen to that messaging. It has a chance if you say it loud and often. The whole squeaky wheel thing. If you had a way to show that this move costs Cisco money then you would have an even more effective weapon. This is a little harder to conceptualize and even harder to convince everyone to do what would need to be done. -Bil -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Agreed. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 11:29 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that in retiring the exam and requiring that you retake the lab portion again is incomprehensible. They can't tell me that the RS hasn't changed as much or more over its lifetime. It is still the same but they did not retire it (well maybe that is the plan, retire them all and make you earn new) so if you got your RS 10 years or 10 days ago you are CCIE RS. You can easily say the same for others but you get the idea. I think that this is marketing and even so they could have easily done exactly what they did with CCVP to CCNP Voice. When you renew, you do so by passing the CCIE Collaboration written exam (which they make more like the others with some interactive tasks) and you then renew as a CCIE Collaboration. I just think we should stop complaining, organize the CCIE voice community and ask nicely, demand persuasively and argue smartly to get them to change their minds about having to take the lab again to move to CCIE Collaboration. What they have done is weaken in my mind what I strove so hard to earn Bill On 5/29/13, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom acquisition) ISP Dial CCIE SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
If you or any of your colleges are going to Cisco Live. I'm sure there is a CCIE Voice presentation and update. Voice your opinion there. ***No pun intended.*** Overall, it sucks. It does look like more of a marketing side using the word Collaboration. There are some changes in 7.0 to 9.1 and video is the biggest thing. Other new features if you compare the lab topics from V3.0 and Collab: Native Call Queuing, Video Codecs, maybe more emphasis on SIP, EMCC, ILS/URI, ELCAC, Security, Jabber and Federation. Check out the CCIE Lab Exam Topics. It seems like 95%+ is the same from CCIE Voice. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 IMHO, if you are studying (and attempted the lab already, like me) just take the exam and get your number. I know I had buddies that took the CCIE Wireless and it took a long time for them to pass as the exam was so new they didn't have much training partner/material. It's gonna be a while for material to be created. You will see the pass rate for CCIE Collab being very low in the beginning stages, I'm guessing. Finally, keep studying. You still need to know core Voice before you can know collaboration. Good luck! Josh Reola www.ciscosimplified.com On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:39 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: VIk/IPExpert Team, Does anyone knows who the Program Manager is for Upcoming Collaboration Track ? We need to voice our concerns to PM's direct email address on Cisco Support Community. That's only way, we will be heard. Let's hope Cisco listens to us. Regards, On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that in retiring the exam and requiring that you retake the lab portion again is incomprehensible. They can't tell me that the RS hasn't changed as much or more over its lifetime. It is still the same but they did not retire it (well maybe that is the plan, retire them all and make you earn new) so if you got your RS 10 years or 10 days ago you are CCIE RS. You can easily say the same for others but you get the idea. I think that this is marketing and even so they could have easily done exactly what they did with CCVP to CCNP Voice. When you renew, you do so by passing the CCIE Collaboration written exam (which they make more like the others with some interactive tasks) and you then renew as a CCIE Collaboration. I just think we should stop complaining, organize the CCIE voice community and ask nicely, demand persuasively and argue smartly to get them to change their minds about having to take the lab again to move to CCIE Collaboration. What they have done is weaken in my mind what I strove so hard to earn Bill On 5/29/13, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom acquisition) ISP Dial CCIE SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
I'd love to get some traction on an effort to fix this. Please count me in for anything I can do to let our concerns be heard. I'm sure I'm not alone here but I'm embarrassed to tell my wife that I've invested our families time and money into something that's EOL. Not a very wise decision on my part. Epic fail! On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:39 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: VIk/IPExpert Team, Does anyone knows who the Program Manager is for Upcoming Collaboration Track ? We need to voice our concerns to PM's direct email address on Cisco Support Community. That's only way, we will be heard. Let's hope Cisco listens to us. Regards, On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that in retiring the exam and requiring that you retake the lab portion again is incomprehensible. They can't tell me that the RS hasn't changed as much or more over its lifetime. It is still the same but they did not retire it (well maybe that is the plan, retire them all and make you earn new) so if you got your RS 10 years or 10 days ago you are CCIE RS. You can easily say the same for others but you get the idea. I think that this is marketing and even so they could have easily done exactly what they did with CCVP to CCNP Voice. When you renew, you do so by passing the CCIE Collaboration written exam (which they make more like the others with some interactive tasks) and you then renew as a CCIE Collaboration. I just think we should stop complaining, organize the CCIE voice community and ask nicely, demand persuasively and argue smartly to get them to change their minds about having to take the lab again to move to CCIE Collaboration. What they have done is weaken in my mind what I strove so hard to earn Bill On 5/29/13, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom acquisition) ISP Dial CCIE SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto: whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.commailto: vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: As I said before - I would think product marketing had something to say about this. Just my opinion. Why for the last 4 years has there been a lack of Microsoft products
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
I couldn't give you a +1 on the Cisco site so let me offer the +1 here. Well put, very concise and totally accurate. I completely agree with you. I vote that you are 'The voice of The Voice'. Bitching may not work, but it makes me feel better :-D On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:07 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: When you have a group of people that share an opinion, you need to organize that group of people so that they can speak as one voice. It is called Unified Communications for a reason! The key is to have this group opinion communicated across multiple mediums in a consistent and persistent manner. Basically, you have to market your message. Twitter, FB, and the Cisco Communities are good target mediums if you want to get Cisco's attention. Finding out who is in charge of the IE Voice/Collaboration program and getting their email is another medium. Though, the recipient of said email bomb won't look on that with favorable eyes and it may be counterproductive. Bitching for the sake of bitching won't work. You also have to make sure your argument is one that has a chance of appealing to the other party's willingness or ability to make a compromise. For instance, bitching at Cisco and saying they should rethink retiring the IE voice and grandfather us in may not work. However, launching a campaign to convince them that there should be an alternate path for the IE voice to upgrade their IE may provide a more workable compromise. Thus far I have spoken about organizing our complaints to get attention and putting out a message that provides a reasonable and workable compromise. Cisco has and will listen to that messaging. It has a chance if you say it loud and often. The whole squeaky wheel thing. If you had a way to show that this move costs Cisco money then you would have an even more effective weapon. This is a little harder to conceptualize and even harder to convince everyone to do what would need to be done. -Bil -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com mailto:whl...@gmail.com whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto: m.george00
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so they realize what they are doing is NOT right. I will take some months for us to digest this news. Thanks
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
I thought so too. I could see if it was getting obnoxious but all of the comments were pretty professional. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto: whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.com mailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense whatsoever whether be it from marketing point of view or any other. Why can't big buck makers at Cisco just rename a Cert rather than do something completely rubbish. With just one announcement, they have made many people lose faith in Certification process. I am sure Voice labs will be the most deserted labs until Feb 2014. At the end of day, we can only request Cisco to re-consider this decision. I hope folks concerned collaborate put their suggestions forward on Cisco Support Community direct to Cisco Certification teams so
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert. BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is @LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. Of course I recommend being polite. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: I thought so too. I could see if it was getting obnoxious but all of the comments were pretty professional. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs etc. Retiring CCIE Voice makes no sense
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Thanks, Bill. Just posted my first Tweet! Daniel - I had to borrow your great point about the changes from v2 to v3 being more significant than the current changes. Awesome insight. I joked when Vik first posted about collaboration that I didn't want to be a CCIE-Ambigouos Marketing Jargon. I'm eating my words and they taste terrible. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Daniel Pagan dpa...@fidelus.com wrote: Not just you – I also cannot post a response. ** ** Great posting, Bill. I appreciate that you expressed what many of us are feeling right now in a very articulate and logical manner. ** ** I’m in complete agreement with nearly every response in this thread. It’s rather upsetting to see this entire track get retired when its replacement’s blueprint is simply a needed refresh. In fact, it seems the blueprint changes made during the transition from lab v2 to v3 were greater in comparison to this (CUPS added, UC v7 platforms added incl. UnityCx, ISRs added and 6608s and VG248 removed, core knowledge questions added, etc.). I’m reading the lab topics for v4 and see nothing that couldn’t be included in a “migration exam” for current voice CCIEs. ** ** Daniel Pagan, CCIE #25689 ** ** *From:* ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin Sloan *Sent:* Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:25 PM *To:* Rrcrumm *Cc:* ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com *Subject:* Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced* *** ** ** Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? ** ** On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto: whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataCom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Yea I just looked at that... wow disappointing all around... Leslie Meade .. Mobile:778.228.4339 | Main: 604.676.5239 Email: leslie.me...@lvs1.commailto:leslie.me...@lvs1.com From: ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com [mailto:ccie_voice-boun...@onlinestudylist.com] On Behalf Of William Bell Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:12 PM To: Martin Sloan Cc: ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com; vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.commailto:rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.commailto:leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.commailto:m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.commailto:ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.commailto:vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.commailto:whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco. These are: * WAN Switching CCIE (Essentially a specialisation focusing on the IGX/BPX switch products, which had been acquired as part of the StrataComhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StrataCom acquisition) * ISP Dial CCIE * SNA/IP Integration CCIE (aka CCIE Blue) * Design CCIE (NOTE: The CCIE Design and CCDE are completely different design tests in format and subjects examined) People who hold these now-retired certifications can remain CCIEs, provided they continue to take recertification exams. They now hold the title CCIE, rather than CCIE Security, or some other specialization. So if we can get official confirmation that we won't be stripped of CCIE if you pass the voice lab, it might be good, for those of us that have already passed we don't get a chance to change our minds for those that have yet to pass, this might be incentive to change your goal. Bill On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:29 AM, m george m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.commailto:m.george00...@gmail.com wrote: Vik, A 2nd grader can pass RS/Sec/SP much much easier than Voice IE. Voice is still the toughest one i know some double IE's who couldn't pass Voice. If Cisco has lost faith in re-cert, that should apply to every track, not just Voice. Naturally, they should have renamed Certification to Voice/Collaboration or Voice/Video etc introduced new version. If they had to do this retiring thing, why didn't they do when they introduced V3 from V2 ? Old days of Call Manager based on Windows literally everything based on windows, Analog endpoints/VGs/ATAs
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
I wasn't going to chime in, but given some of the responses I feel led to put in my two cents. My plan is to sit the exam August 1st (already paid for) and get CCIEVoice. I agree that it's a shame Cisco is changing the name, but like many of you said, you still have the number. I would also bet that most if not all of you have had some video experience, so if you decide to try for the Collaboration cert and already have a CCIE Voice, it *should* be fairly straight forward. If you're in the same boat as I am, my advice is to keep on going. You've already spent X amount of months studying (and time away from family), so keep going, don't procrastinate and get it done! I hope that reads more of a pep talk for my fellow candidates, rather than a rant. Oh, and I'm up for voicing an opinion to Cisco about this, but I would doubt they would shift policy because of us - but who knows. Josh On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Martin Sloan martinsloa...@gmail.comwrote: I couldn't give you a +1 on the Cisco site so let me offer the +1 here. Well put, very concise and totally accurate. I completely agree with you. I vote that you are 'The voice of The Voice'. Bitching may not work, but it makes me feel better :-D On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:07 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.comwrote: When you have a group of people that share an opinion, you need to organize that group of people so that they can speak as one voice. It is called Unified Communications for a reason! The key is to have this group opinion communicated across multiple mediums in a consistent and persistent manner. Basically, you have to market your message. Twitter, FB, and the Cisco Communities are good target mediums if you want to get Cisco's attention. Finding out who is in charge of the IE Voice/Collaboration program and getting their email is another medium. Though, the recipient of said email bomb won't look on that with favorable eyes and it may be counterproductive. Bitching for the sake of bitching won't work. You also have to make sure your argument is one that has a chance of appealing to the other party's willingness or ability to make a compromise. For instance, bitching at Cisco and saying they should rethink retiring the IE voice and grandfather us in may not work. However, launching a campaign to convince them that there should be an alternate path for the IE voice to upgrade their IE may provide a more workable compromise. Thus far I have spoken about organizing our complaints to get attention and putting out a message that provides a reasonable and workable compromise. Cisco has and will listen to that messaging. It has a chance if you say it loud and often. The whole squeaky wheel thing. If you had a way to show that this move costs Cisco money then you would have an even more effective weapon. This is a little harder to conceptualize and even harder to convince everyone to do what would need to be done. -Bil -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com mailto:whl...@gmail.com whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several others. See here with the snippet. Now the second is a wiki so we would want official confirmation. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-17226 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisco_Career_Certifications#Retired_CCIE_tracks Retired CCIE tracks Some previously awarded CCIE specializations have been retired by Cisco
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Great pep talk Josh, I'm right before you on 7/29 in RTP and will keeping focused on it. I hope they reconsider or provide an alternate update path but if not I'm already paid up for the CCIE-V, might as well go for it. Good luck on your lab. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Josh Petro josh.pe...@gmail.com wrote: I wasn't going to chime in, but given some of the responses I feel led to put in my two cents. My plan is to sit the exam August 1st (already paid for) and get CCIEVoice. I agree that it's a shame Cisco is changing the name, but like many of you said, you still have the number. I would also bet that most if not all of you have had some video experience, so if you decide to try for the Collaboration cert and already have a CCIE Voice, it *should* be fairly straight forward. If you're in the same boat as I am, my advice is to keep on going. You've already spent X amount of months studying (and time away from family), so keep going, don't procrastinate and get it done! I hope that reads more of a pep talk for my fellow candidates, rather than a rant. Oh, and I'm up for voicing an opinion to Cisco about this, but I would doubt they would shift policy because of us - but who knows. Josh On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Martin Sloan martinsloa...@gmail.comwrote: I couldn't give you a +1 on the Cisco site so let me offer the +1 here. Well put, very concise and totally accurate. I completely agree with you. I vote that you are 'The voice of The Voice'. Bitching may not work, but it makes me feel better :-D On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 1:07 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.comwrote: When you have a group of people that share an opinion, you need to organize that group of people so that they can speak as one voice. It is called Unified Communications for a reason! The key is to have this group opinion communicated across multiple mediums in a consistent and persistent manner. Basically, you have to market your message. Twitter, FB, and the Cisco Communities are good target mediums if you want to get Cisco's attention. Finding out who is in charge of the IE Voice/Collaboration program and getting their email is another medium. Though, the recipient of said email bomb won't look on that with favorable eyes and it may be counterproductive. Bitching for the sake of bitching won't work. You also have to make sure your argument is one that has a chance of appealing to the other party's willingness or ability to make a compromise. For instance, bitching at Cisco and saying they should rethink retiring the IE voice and grandfather us in may not work. However, launching a campaign to convince them that there should be an alternate path for the IE voice to upgrade their IE may provide a more workable compromise. Thus far I have spoken about organizing our complaints to get attention and putting out a message that provides a reasonable and workable compromise. Cisco has and will listen to that messaging. It has a chance if you say it loud and often. The whole squeaky wheel thing. If you had a way to show that this move costs Cisco money then you would have an even more effective weapon. This is a little harder to conceptualize and even harder to convince everyone to do what would need to be done. -Bil -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com Follow me on twitter @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology replacing another. In my opinion this was too harsh of a move to retire Voice and start over again with Collaboration. There are too many similarities between the two. On May 29, 2013, at 7:10 AM, Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com mailto:whl...@gmail.com whl...@gmail.com wrote: Ranting about it won't change anything. I read on line that when they retire your CCIE, you can still renew by passing a CCIE level written or lab. If this is true then you do not loose your CCIE just the voice tag. That seems to be a difficult pill to swallow but it would not be the first from my reading. Storage had this happen earlier this year as have several
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
You can also post to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/Cisco.Learning) or this thread on the Cisco learning community (https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/56590?tstart=0). The learning community also has Google+ and other social media accounts. There is one team that manages most of the social media and another team that manages the learning community. I am sure they will listen and bubble up the input they receive. Volume counts. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 8:30 PM, Somphol Boonjing wrote: Bill, Thanks for the twitter account, I just send out my feedback too. I think another point that needs clarification I think is what guidelines is used to EOL the certification? Without transparency, the risk to have sudden and unexplained EOL announcement of any CCIE track can be very real. Without the guideline, no one would know in advance whether CCIE Collaboration will be retired and the new track is created as CCIE Synergy when CUCM is upgraded to version 14.1 in 3-5 years?What makes us think this is a one off? What if the guidelines clearly stated that if the material changes for 30%, the track will be retired and a new track will be created? (What if this is an implicit guideline on their port?)Will people still think it is worth the effort? The lack of transparency and guidelines on how the decision is reached make the CCIE cert easily one of the most risky investment of time and commitment. It is hard, required high level of commitment and can be short-lived without proper communication upfront. By the way, I don't think Cisco will lose money over this. Imaging a few year from now, CCIE Voice will be faded away and will totally be useless. All the job ads will be for CCIE Collaboration. Do you think more and more former CCIE Voice will reset the CCIE Collaboration lab knowing that the new material is not that much anyway. The exam however is tricky and picky, and on average it take some thing like 3.xx times to pass it. (OK, I will discount it to 2 attempts for former CCIE Voice) So assuming 50% of exiting CCIE Voice holders -- appx 1500 - 2000 of them takes this path, Cisco wouldn't be losing revenue do they? 2000 (50% of current CCIE Voice Holder) x $1500 (Lab cost) x 2 (On average, two attempts) = $6,000,000.- Mind you that $6 million is nothing for the company of its size, but the point is they won't be losing money. --Somphol On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:31 AM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: Yeah, it is kind of ironic that the collaboration feature is disabled in a collaborative community article on the IE Collaboration cert. BTW, the twitter handle you can use to get the message to a broader audience is @LearningAtCisco. I think it is a good idea to direct messages to these folks. Of course I recommend being polite. -Bill -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: I thought so too. I could see if it was getting obnoxious but all of the comments were pretty professional. On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 4:12 PM, William Bell b...@ucguerrilla.com wrote: They did disable commenting. That's interesting. -- William Bell, CCIE #38914 blog: http://ucguerrilla.com twitter: @ucguerrilla On May 29, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Martin Sloan wrote: Is it just me or did they disable commenting on the v4 lab topics post? https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 I wanted to commend William Bell on hitting the nail on the head and put my own 2 cents in. I'm able to place a comment in the equipment list post here: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-20804 but not the other. Does anyone have comment options on the exam topics page? On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Rrcrumm rrcr...@yahoo.com wrote: Ben Ng comes to mind On May 29, 2013, at 7:28 AM, Leslie Meade leslie.me...@lvs1.com wrote: The question is... what if anything can we do ? Where would we start.. Original message From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com Date: To: Bill Lake whl...@gmail.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com,Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Granted we all know that taking any CCIE Written will allow us to remain CCIE's even if Voice is retired, but I think the frustration is Voice and Collaboration are not THAT far apart and no matter how you look at it, it all falls under Cisco Unified Communications, which is what the name of the new CCIE really should be anyway. The core of the Voice blueprint is still there. The Collaboration equipment list looks like a refresh of current products, not a forklift of one technology
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Bummer, I was really hoping CCIE Voice candidates would transition to Collaboration without any additional lab exams. On May 28, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Yes its really frustrating what Cisco is doing to us. Ok let me tell you this. People now have invested a lot of money in pursuing their CCIE Voice that includes (Verious Workbook fees , Rack Rentals , Home Lab building , travel expenses and Lab fees attempts for whatever times) So when people achieve CCIE Voice nowadays a year or two later it would be considered old and grandfathered. Also , Cisco has released a new lab for 2 months while they are planning to abolish the whole syllabus. Why they do that to us They already make money out of everything especially lab multiple times of lab attempts per each person. CCIE Voice achievers has to send cisco request for Migration without Lab test. CCVP it was automatically migrated to CCNP Voice without any additional tests. CCNA is migrated to CCNA R/S without any additional tests. In case of Video part then I suggest whether they force CCIE Voice people to make CCNA VIDEO or CCNP Video if they will release or they make just a migration lab track that includes VIDEO stuff only for a cheaper fee something like $500. Thats same for MICROSOFT they abolished MCSE to change it to MCITP people usually just add 2 tracks to become full MCITP same when they migrate to new MCSE (Microsoft Certified Solutions Experts) there is only an upgrade track rather than taking the whole 5 tracks again. Cisco obviously has to do something like that.It's really unfair retiring the whole cisco voice totally. Guys to make the new Collaboration lab that would cost anyone over 50K to buy telepresence , X9XX routers stuff , 9971 Video Phones , TV's and etc.. Even the rack rentals would be 5 times the old voice track as the equipment would be way more expensive. Seriously , We have to agree all of us from multiple different voice study group to have a migration track to Collaboration please share your thoughts guys On 28 May 2013 18:56, Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com wrote: Bummer, I was really hoping CCIE Voice candidates would transition to Collaboration without any additional lab exams. On May 28, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com
Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced
Sweet sweet sweet From: Mark Holloway m...@markholloway.com To: Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com Cc: OSL Group ccie_voice@onlinestudylist.com Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:56:24 PM Subject: Re: [OSL | CCIE_Voice] CCIE Collaboration officially announced Bummer, I was really hoping CCIE Voice candidates would transition to Collaboration without any additional lab exams. On May 28, 2013, at 7:08 PM, Vik Malhi vma...@ipexpert.com wrote: For my initial reaction read here: http://bit.ly/12MNK5t Vik Malhi – CCIE #13890 Managing Partner - IPexpert, Inc. Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 ext 420 Fax: +1.810.454.0130 Mailto: vma...@ipexpert.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com ___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com___ For more information regarding industry leading CCIE Lab training, please visit www.ipexpert.com Are you a CCNP or CCIE and looking for a job? Check out www.PlatinumPlacement.com
