Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Egor Grebnev wrote:

>On Thursday 13 October 2005 01:51, Taran Rampersad wrote:
>  
>
>>But those folks are always shifting, and would be hard to find...
>>
>>
>
>But what would you like to know? :)
>  
>
Everything. But the quote taken out of context makes it difficult to
respond to what specifically I was looking for in that quotation.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Egor Grebnev]

On Thursday 13 October 2005 01:51, Taran Rampersad wrote:
> But those folks are always shifting, and would be hard to find...

But what would you like to know? :)

-- 
Egor Grebnev
ALT Linux Co.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Actually, by doing some research on the darker side of the internet,
I've found some people who scan/photograph books, use optical character
recognition, and create eBooks. Apparently, there's a big underground
following. Some of the server statistics show over 100,000 downloads of
some books.

But those folks are always shifting, and would be hard to find...

David P. Dillard wrote:

>Scanning of books with a camera has been going on in libraries since the
>advent of digital cameras and to a limited degree with regular cameras
>before the advent of the digital camera.  The drawback before the digital
>camera was the cost and difficulty of processing film.  Now with digital
>cameras it is probably a widespread practice.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>David Dillard
>Temple University
>(215) 204 - 4584
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>Digital Divide Network
>
>
>
>
>On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Taran Rampersad wrote:
>
>  
>
>>You know, it's a matter of time before digital cells with cameras (or
>>just plain cameras) are used to copy books out of libraries. Would that
>>be a bad thing? :-)
>>
>>David P. Dillard wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Cell phones are not just getting attention on campuses in general as per
>>>your statement, but they have also been a major concern in libraries in
>>>particular.
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>--
>>Taran Rampersad
>>Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>http://www.knowprose.com
>>http://www.easylum.net
>>http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran
>>
>>Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com
>>
>>"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>
>>DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list
>>DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org
>>http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide
>>
>>
>
>
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>in the body of the message.
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[David P. Dillard]

Scanning of books with a camera has been going on in libraries since the
advent of digital cameras and to a limited degree with regular cameras
before the advent of the digital camera.  The drawback before the digital
camera was the cost and difficulty of processing film.  Now with digital
cameras it is probably a widespread practice.


Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





Digital Divide Network




On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Taran Rampersad wrote:

> You know, it's a matter of time before digital cells with cameras (or
> just plain cameras) are used to copy books out of libraries. Would that
> be a bad thing? :-)
>
> David P. Dillard wrote:
>
> >Cell phones are not just getting attention on campuses in general as per
> >your statement, but they have also been a major concern in libraries in
> >particular.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Taran Rampersad
> Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.knowprose.com
> http://www.easylum.net
> http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran
>
> Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com
>
> "Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo


> DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list
> DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org
> http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide


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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jon maddog Hall]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> You know, it's a matter of time before digital cells with cameras (or just
> plain cameras) are used to copy books out of libraries. Would that be a bad
> thing? :-)

No, and most copyright law was not meant to prevent the "single copy".
Originally it was meant to stop publisher "B" from buying one copy of a book
from publisher "A" (or the author) and just printing copies to their heart's
content and selling them without paying royalties.  It seems to me it was only
when the photocopying machine came into being that the issue of copyright
got extended to single copies, then single pages.

md
-- 
Jon "maddog" Hall
Executive Director   Linux International(R)
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. 
Voice: +1.603.672.4557   Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A.
WWW: http://www.li.org

Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association

(R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries.
(R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant
   to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus
   Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis
(R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other
   countries.

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Layton E. Olson]

ects" of their own choosing,
learning along the way.  Again, project-based learning, with a person of
any age presenting to peers and more-experienced persons their "product"
is one of the most highly memorable learning experiences.  Do you
remember special projects/dramatic plays that you performed in front of
others, and got their feedback?  I'm sure we all do, going back to 6th
grade, etc.  Do you remember who gave you your first "paid" summer job,
or admitted you to a special 1-6 week education training opportunity,
camp experience, etc., often with a community service component?  At a
collegiate level, there are clearly role-based learning experiences,
where individuals learn their most effective roles/workstyles within
groups whether in business, nonprofit or public agency "enterprise" or
service-delivery mission (I participated in developing an unfunded
freshman course in such "community enterprise roles" in Chicago.)

6. Who pays?  All of the above are essentially inquiries into who pays,
as a combination of research grants, company subsidization of
model-building, and school or library or health care system delivery.
As your summary notes the on-and-off financial commitments, the question
would seem to require a minimum of 7 year commitment by any party.  It
seems there may be opportunities for country-wide applications of
elements of voice/3-4 person record-based learning, based models to be
invested in by a combination of library and health-related foundations
(e.g. Gates) and International Agencies, with U.S. agencies
participating to some degree.  The question is "who has the
responsibility" for delivering better quality of life over any 7 year
period, in order to make these models work and help persons one-by-one
(or groups of 3-4)? It would seem these are the parties that need to
"buy" the learning for all model for their particular country, language,
region, along with the "pump priming" investments you have made to
ensure they are a success.

I don't know if this helps, but it helpful to me in Illinois in
clarifying my thinking and planning next steps for Digital Literacy
awareness, access, and skills in low-income areas of our state, and
making presenations to legislature and public agencies for support of
particular steps.  Some of these steps can be seen at www.mtag.org of
Midwest Technology Access Group, linked with parties at UIC Managerial
Studies and other parts of University of Illinois, and parties hosting
conferneces on Community Technology and Telecommunications and rural
economic development/telehealth, where I am on planning committees, as
illustrated at:
http://www.communitydevelopment.uiuc.edu/telecom2005/  

Perhaps sometime when I am in California I might have an opportunity to
visit your program to see your tremendous work in person.  (I was born
and raised in L.A., and get out there to visit family from time to
time.)

Layton Olson, board member
Midwest Technology Access Group, and

Layton E. Olson, Esq.
Howe & Hutton, Ltd.
20 N. Wacker Dr., Suite 4200
Chicago, IL 60606
312-263-3001  Fax: 312-372-6685
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.howehutton.com



-Original Message-
From: Alfred Bork [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 2:06 PM
To: Layton E. Olson; 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group'
Cc: 'Alfred Bork'
Subject: RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

Layton

Here is the paper. I suspect that the list will not accept attachments,
but we will see. Note particularly the children's voice activated self-
instructional word processor. It should be a valuable tool for
illiterates of any age.

I look forward to your comments. I can send full details if you want.


Alfred

University of California, Irvine


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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

You know, it's a matter of time before digital cells with cameras (or
just plain cameras) are used to copy books out of libraries. Would that
be a bad thing? :-)

David P. Dillard wrote:

>Cell phones are not just getting attention on campuses in general as per
>your statement, but they have also been a major concern in libraries in
>particular.
>  
>

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[David P. Dillard]

Cell phones are not just getting attention on campuses in general as per
your statement, but they have also been a major concern in libraries in
particular.



Library Policy - Cell Phones


The Nealley Library is committed to providing an environment that is
conducive to study as well as welcoming to all users.  This policy was
developed in response to concerns from students and faculty about the
increased noise in the Library due to cell phone use.

When you enter the Library please turn off your cell phones and do not
conduct any cell phone conversations in the Library.

Anyone refusing to adhere to this policy will be asked to leave the
library.



  OHSU Library
OHSU Library Policy on Cell Phone and Pager Use


The OHSU Library is committed to providing an environment that is
comfortable but conducive to study. Noise from the use of cell phones and
pagers is disruptive to a study environment. Therefore, the use of these
devices in open study areas of the library is prohibited.
If you must be on call and are using a cell phone or pager, set the device
to a non-audible signal. If you are responding to a call or page, proceed
to the lobby outside the Library entrance or to the paging phone corridors
on the west end of each floor. Conversations should be kept brief and
conform to HIPAA privacy standards.

Library users wishing to report inappropriate cell phone use can contact a
library staff member at one of the service desks. The Library reserves the
right to ask anyone to leave the Library if he/she is using a cell phone
or pager in a prohibited area or disturbing others in any area of the
Library.



Web  Results 1 - 10 of about 665 for "cell phones" and "library policy".

Cell phones do not sell well in libraries, particularly college ones.


Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





Digital Divide Network


=

On Sat, 1 Oct 2005, John Hibbs wrote:

> At 12:23 AM +0100 10/1/05, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote:
> >For the young, and some professionals, cell phone and
> >WIFI are fashionable and/or on the go. But is it a
> >MUST? I wonder.

> Cindy, at the University of Oregon I see large numbers walking
> through this lovely campus, heavy with trees and the colors of Fall,
> the ears glued to a cell phone. If one is near or with those in their
> early 20's, on can't play a game of pool, have a uninterrupted
> conversation, eat a meal without the interruption of a phone ring,
> followed quickly by "Hi Jimmy - what's up". Followed by inane
> conversation (usually brief) (followed by text messaging).

> I call it the Tyranny of the Instant. And it seems to be getting worse.

> Signed,
> Complaining geezer
> --
> John W. Hibbs
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> About the Institute
> http://www.bfranklin.edu
>
> About John Hibbs
> http://www.bfranklin.edu/johnhibbs
>
> About Global Learn Day
> http://www.bfranklin.edu/gld
>
> About a long term stint abroad
> http://www.bfranklin.edu/champions
>
> Three months abroad?
>   ---Celebrating The Franklin Tercentenary
> http://www.bfranklin.edu/ambassadors
> http://www.ben300.com
>
> Eugene, Oregon, USA
>
> TEL: +1 541 343 9389
> cell +1 541 337 4233

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[jdflick]

I've found in my English composition classes, where I use online discussion, 
that anyone older than 19 or 20 is a little hesitant about using the "big 
pencils" of computers in class.  The reason, I think, is the old attitude when 
a machine is broke, don't touch; call the repairman.  But with computers, users 
can tinker and usually solve the problem. I don't mean programming; users need 
to tinker with the basic tools until they gain competency.
 
Jim Flick 
 
-Original Message-
From: Jacqueline Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:20:09 -0400
Subject: Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop


I've found children have an easier time with some of my devices than I
do... The gameboy etc are really tiny buttons that I can't really
manipulate properly - my 6 year old cousin is a whiz. He's also much
faster at SMS and uses my cell to play games with a speed and
dexterity I can't match.

I however, can type a LOT faster than he can on a big keyboard. ;)
Basically because I know how to type and he doesn't. If he were taught
- he'd probably be faster.

How young is young? That's why I asked about what age the grades
are... I can see the need for big buttons etc in 2-3 year olds,  but
by 4-6 this issue is disappearing  - at least in the children I see
here. (trinidad and tobago)

Jacqueline

On 10/3/05, Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jesse Sinaiko wrote:
>
> >Big pencils.
> >
> >Much larger circumference than a normal thin, octagonal pencil.  Maybe 1/3
> >inch in diameter.  I see kids in Chicago Public Schools using them every
> >day.  I had them (and hated them) in first, second, and third grade (6, 7,
> >and 8 years old aprox.) back in the early 1960s.
> >
> >Last year I heard a fairly comprehensive explanation about why they are used
> >by a second grade teacher and department head.
> >
> >It's about motor skill development and dexterity.
> >
> >
> You may want to ask how long ago this theory was developed. I think that
> this particular theory may need some substantial updating... we've
> (mankind) learned a lot about human development since the early 1960s.
> More recent books on human development have been written since then. I
> think that this might just be a hold over that is explained away without
> thought.
>
> Also... think about how small the joints are in little fingers. A pencil
> that big is actually harder to manage because of the physical
> constraints of the human hand. Of course, I don't write like people
> would want me to write, I write like I write (you know, the whole 'move
> the hand', 'hold the pencil right') thing.
>
> >Obviously not essential, but helpful in getting primary school kids to
> >develop writing skills more readily.
> >
> >My point was about teeny keyboards and young children having the developed
> >motor skills to use them efficiently.
> >
> >
> Actually, kids should have less trouble with keyboards since it's
> basically learning how to point instead of learning how to draw
> hieroglyphic lines with an oak tree. But that's an opinion,
> substantiated only with my own experience.
>
>
> --
> Taran Rampersad
> Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.knowprose.com
> http://www.easylum.net
> http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran
>
> Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com
>
> "Criticize by creating." ? Michelangelo
>
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the word UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of the message.
>


--
Jacqueline Morris
www.carnivalondenet.com
T&T Music and videos online

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jacqueline Morris]

I've found children have an easier time with some of my devices than I
do... The gameboy etc are really tiny buttons that I can't really
manipulate properly - my 6 year old cousin is a whiz. He's also much
faster at SMS and uses my cell to play games with a speed and
dexterity I can't match.

I however, can type a LOT faster than he can on a big keyboard. ;)
Basically because I know how to type and he doesn't. If he were taught
- he'd probably be faster.

How young is young? That's why I asked about what age the grades
are... I can see the need for big buttons etc in 2-3 year olds,  but
by 4-6 this issue is disappearing  - at least in the children I see
here. (trinidad and tobago)

Jacqueline

On 10/3/05, Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jesse Sinaiko wrote:
>
> >Big pencils.
> >
> >Much larger circumference than a normal thin, octagonal pencil.  Maybe 1/3
> >inch in diameter.  I see kids in Chicago Public Schools using them every
> >day.  I had them (and hated them) in first, second, and third grade (6, 7,
> >and 8 years old aprox.) back in the early 1960s.
> >
> >Last year I heard a fairly comprehensive explanation about why they are used
> >by a second grade teacher and department head.
> >
> >It's about motor skill development and dexterity.
> >
> >
> You may want to ask how long ago this theory was developed. I think that
> this particular theory may need some substantial updating... we've
> (mankind) learned a lot about human development since the early 1960s.
> More recent books on human development have been written since then. I
> think that this might just be a hold over that is explained away without
> thought.
>
> Also... think about how small the joints are in little fingers. A pencil
> that big is actually harder to manage because of the physical
> constraints of the human hand. Of course, I don't write like people
> would want me to write, I write like I write (you know, the whole 'move
> the hand', 'hold the pencil right') thing.
>
> >Obviously not essential, but helpful in getting primary school kids to
> >develop writing skills more readily.
> >
> >My point was about teeny keyboards and young children having the developed
> >motor skills to use them efficiently.
> >
> >
> Actually, kids should have less trouble with keyboards since it's
> basically learning how to point instead of learning how to draw
> hieroglyphic lines with an oak tree. But that's an opinion,
> substantiated only with my own experience.
>
>
> --
> Taran Rampersad
> Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.knowprose.com
> http://www.easylum.net
> http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran
>
> Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com
>
> "Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo
>
> ___
> DIGITALDIVIDE mailing list
> DIGITALDIVIDE@mailman.edc.org
> http://mailman.edc.org/mailman/listinfo/digitaldivide
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word UNSUBSCRIBE 
> in the body of the message.
>


--
Jacqueline Morris
www.carnivalondenet.com
T&T Music and videos online

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Scott Bowling wrote:

>Taran Rampersad wrote:
>  
>
>>...
>>I use an USB key for a lot of this stuff... but the problem is that I
>>can't depend on machines to have the software that I use, and so on. 
>>So I carry a laptop. But I agree. I'd much rather prefer walking 
>>around with my USB key.
>>
>>
>>
>Well, you can put the apps on the key as well, and you can also put the
>OS (Linux) on it or bring along a boot CD. Since booting machines is
>often not possible, be sure to check out the Portable Virtual Privacy
>Machine link below.
>  
>
LOL, I know that Scott. I run Knoppix on one of my USB keys, but the
fact remains that there's just not enough space for what I need (yet?)
and also there is also the need for me to still run Windows because
other people haven't caught on, and thus I require a Windows interface
to them, which comes with it's own bloat. If I stayed on with SSC(LG,
LJ, Tux), I'd probably be full blown Linux right now because of the
context of what I was doing. But that's not my context now. Unfortunate.
And using a webmail interface sucks with PGP. :-)

Toss in the main problem - when I want to use a PC, I don't want to
stand in line. Nobody does. :-)

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Scott Bowling]

Taran Rampersad wrote:
>...
> I use an USB key for a lot of this stuff... but the problem is that I
> can't depend on machines to have the software that I use, and so on. 
> So I carry a laptop. But I agree. I'd much rather prefer walking 
> around with my USB key.
> 
Well, you can put the apps on the key as well, and you can also put the
OS (Linux) on it or bring along a boot CD. Since booting machines is
often not possible, be sure to check out the Portable Virtual Privacy
Machine link below.

Some links:

Portable Firefox (Web Browser)
http://johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/portable_firefox/

Portable Thunderbird (Email Client)
http://johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/portable_thunderbird/

Portable NVU (Web Editor)
http://johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/portable_nvu/

Portable Sunbird (Calendar, and a bit rough yet) 
http://johnhaller.com/jh/mozilla/portable_sunbird/

Miranda IM (Instant Messenger)
http://www.miranda-im.org/

Portable Virtual Privacy Machine (Linux on a key)
http://www.metropipe.net/ProductsPVPM.shtml

There are many more. OpenOffice can be coaxed into running from a 
USB key as well. 

Scott Bowling
WWWAC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Layton E. Olson]

 Alfred,

I would be interested in seeing your paper on recommendations leading to
learning for all.  Could you post it to DDN, or send me a copy?

I am an attorney in Chicago who has been an "education access advocate"
and "mass process life transition services advocate (e.g. college
admission and financial aid processing)" since the early 1970's in
Washington, D.C., a supporter of "computer literacy" policies and
programs in Chicago in early 1980's, and involved in "telecommunications
in community development" issues in low income areas of midwest
distressed areas since 1997, supporter of Digital Literacy grants
program in IL Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity since
legislation in 2000, and statewide Illinois Community Technology
Consortium/now Coalition for professional development/policy since 2001.
As board member of Midwest Technology Access Group, Inc. www.mtag.org we
are supporting a consortium-in-formation Digital Literacy Research
Consortium, using MTAG's Share Point document sharing services.  

Led by Dr. Eugene Fregetto, UIC managerial studies and with background
in public agency procurement, small business and community enterprise
marketing and outcome tracking, we are exploring successful
literacy-development activities for youth, adults, seniors in improving
quality of life/civic engagement and community enterprises, with special
focus on underserved persons, primarily in U.S., but reviewing
international measurements of ICT skill acquisition/quality of life
impacts.  We look to advocate replication of successful models,
including in leadership development of Digital Tools for
managers/instructors of new and emerging Human Services Computer labs
(CTCs) connected to wide Community Improvement (Community Network)
projects.

Thank you, Layton Olson 


Layton E. Olson, Esq.
Howe & Hutton, Ltd.
20 N. Wacker Dr., Suite 4200
Chicago, IL 60606
312-263-3001  Fax: 312-372-6685
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.howehutton.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alfred Bork
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 4:01 PM
To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group'
Subject: RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop


Who is 'we?' 

Not me. Learning as practiced today, in both the rich and poor parts of
the world, is poor at best, and often nonexistent. Nothing works! For
the US, see for example the publications of the National Academy of
Sciences in reading, writing, and arithmetic. Or read the almost daily
bombardment in the press on the poor quality of learning. 

For the rest of the world, talk to the billion children who have no
schools.

Nature seems to have tolerated plenty of failures! 

If some of you would like to see a draft paper of what I think should
happen
to lead to learning for all, plese let me know.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Alfred

-Original Message- Taran Rampersad
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:59 PM


Why not wait for 99 studies of empirical evidence to support what we
know already works?

Nature doesn't have a plan. It simply doesn't tolerate failures.

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Pamela McLean wrote:

>
>
> Taran Rampersad wrote:
>
>>  I think you travel a lot - maybe you could visit Fantsuam Foundation
>> some time to see for yourself. I'm not suggesting you ask them to pay
>> your expenses - but if you did decide to travel in that direction I
>> am confident that I could introduce you to people who would give you
>> a great welcome and every help in arranging an interesting stay .
>
If I ever get over that way, I definitely will stop in. My personal
travels became handicapped two months ago with additional
responsibilities, but one can hope...

>
>> The solar aspects are something I am practically exploring at this
>> time. Something that fits with this is also this:
>> http://www.biodesign.org.uk/
>>  
>>
> That is good stuff too - on a totally different scale. You can see 
> assembly of that being tried out at Fantsuam too.
>
> There is plenty of solar energy in Nigeria - the previous Nigerian
> High Commissioner used to describe it "God's own kilowatts". That's
> why we're also teaching people about solar cookers and solar cooking.

Excellent!

>
> I recognise that this discussion is wandering off topic - but this
> thread moved some time ago into "the context" of technology - not just
> the technology itself - and in CAWDnet everything is inter-related -
> what we teach/learn  and how we teach/learn it - ICT4D - education and
> training (formal and informal) - appropriate technology - effective
> systems for communicating information - people from different cultures
> "rubbing minds" - learning from each other - using ICTs to overcome
> limitations of physical distance - F2F training and ODL (open and
> distance learning) - hardware .. the Solo ... software .. FOSS. We are
> concerned with all aspects of effective teaching/learning systems -
> content, study-skills, technology.

I don't know, Pam. I think the interrelationship is exactly what gives
this all context, and should guide the overall vision. I think that this
has really been the focal point of this $100 laptop discussion. The
focus on price is purely a developed world sort of perspective. Whether
one can actually get one and use it - that's the developing nation
perspective. You could pay people to take a machine, but if it is a
liability to them... well, that's an issue that is very related.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hello Pamela, Taran,

I took a quick look on the link on Solo, coupled with
solar wireless (one of Taran's recent posts), I see
other possibilities not limited to Nigeria/Africa or
developing world only. 

It is an interesting system. 

Cindy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Pamela McLean]

Taran Rampersad wrote:



I think that this link may also be useful on the Solo:
http://www.explan.co.uk/solo/ ...It's really a good looking system and
one I wouldn't mind getting my hands on to look at further.
...
I'd like to hear
how these systems are being used by people... 
 

If you  click on the link there to "markets" you'll see some photos 
(taken in 2002, when I was in Oke-Ogun with the head of the design team 
for Mark 2 prototype field testing). We were using it, with a satellite 
phone,  for email. This was quite something in an area with precious 
little electricity and far from the nearest telephone network - hence 
the doctor in the photo coming to us to ask if he could send an email, 
and save himself a journey of several hours to the nearest cyber cafe. I 
think the specs  may relate to the Mark 2.



Cost is also a question mark.

My understand is that it's not cheap - but that total cost of ownership 
is competitive. Plus you have a computer that is genuinely designed for 
the realities of local needs and conditions, developed in collaboration 
with local people, and you have all the benefits of technology transfer 
and various  kinds of local positive spin-offs.



This is really a very cool project...

I think so - and so do the health workers, teachers, community 
development activists and others I know who have had the chance to see 
it working in rural Nigeria


As I understand it the design team are holding back commercial 
production until they can get *local* investment - so that there is full 
local control and financial benefit. Then what would help would be a 
full order book. I could be speaking out of turn here as I am not 
directly involved now - just interested because I helped to make some 
initial introductions - and remembering discussions I was part of back 
in 2002.


As I understand it the ideal would be a project or two that would take a 
set number of computers per month for the first year. Imagine the 
benefit to a business start-up if there was a schools project, or health 
project, or some NGO order that could be relied on to take the computers 
it had ordered and pay promptly.


If a philanthropist was around to donate the four room factory/show room 
that is needed then I imagine that would be a great help in kick 
starting the project too - but that is just my idea. The business plan 
we were discussing in 2002 required a building with four main rooms 
(plus toilet/wash-room) - office/private meeting room, "clean" assembly 
room, "dirty" assembly room/store room and  showroom/customer training 
room. The cost would be trivial by "developed" world standard - but is a 
huge challenge to the Nigerian team trying to start the business.




 and one I am glad you
brought to the fore I think perhaps I'll do some more digging into these 
things.
 

Please do. I think you travel a lot - maybe you could visit Fantsuam 
Foundation some time to see for yourself. I'm not suggesting you ask 
them to pay your expenses - but if you did decide to travel in that 
direction I am confident that I could introduce you to people who would 
give you a great welcome and every help in arranging an interesting stay .



The solar aspects are something I am practically exploring at this time. 
Something that fits with this is also this: http://www.biodesign.org.uk/
 

That is good stuff too - on a totally different scale. You can see  
assembly of that being tried out at Fantsuam too.


There is plenty of solar energy in Nigeria - the previous Nigerian High 
Commissioner used to describe it "God's own kilowatts". That's why we're 
also teaching people about solar cookers and solar cooking.


I recognise that this discussion is wandering off topic - but this 
thread moved some time ago into "the context" of technology - not just 
the technology itself - and in CAWDnet everything is inter-related - 
what we teach/learn  and how we teach/learn it - ICT4D - education and 
training (formal and informal) - appropriate technology - effective 
systems for communicating information - people from different cultures 
"rubbing minds" - learning from each other - using ICTs to overcome 
limitations of physical distance - F2F training and ODL (open and 
distance learning) - hardware .. the Solo ... software .. FOSS. We are 
concerned with all aspects of effective teaching/learning systems - 
content, study-skills, technology.


Pam

Pamela McLean
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CAWDnet convenor
www.cawd.info



 


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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote:

>I used to have to carry laptop around the world. And
>the 1997,98,99 ... models were 10 lbs each? 
>
>Then I was asking, why do we have to carry a laptop
>especially if I was travelling to locations where we
>have our own branch offices. 
>
>I am still asking the same question now that I no
>longer have to carry laptop. Many times I am tempted
>to get one BUT always talked myself out of it because
>I know if I have one I WILL carry it everywhere I go.
>And I don't want that. So, I use internet cafe or
>libraries if I am not at home to use my desk-top. I
>have to pay for the services, and I have to do some
>extra work, some planning and make sure I have all the
>files I would need email before hand, I even save and
>send hyperlinks via email... Therefore, it is possible
>for most people to just walk into any place that have
>a PC, internet connections and be able to logon and
>work. In my opion. 
>
>Of course, I know there will be many, but, but, but
>..  .
>
>Personally I think we have to look at accessing
>information from a different angle. I look at info
>super highway the same as transport system. We don't
>have to buy a plane or a train or a ship to go from A
>to Z. We only have to buy a ticket. 
>  
>
I use an USB key for a lot of this stuff... but the problem is that I
can't depend on machines to have the software that I use, and so on. So
I carry a laptop. But I agree. I'd much rather prefer walking around
with my USB key.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Jesse Sinaiko wrote:

>Big pencils. 
>
>Much larger circumference than a normal thin, octagonal pencil.  Maybe 1/3
>inch in diameter.  I see kids in Chicago Public Schools using them every
>day.  I had them (and hated them) in first, second, and third grade (6, 7,
>and 8 years old aprox.) back in the early 1960s.  
>
>Last year I heard a fairly comprehensive explanation about why they are used
>by a second grade teacher and department head.
>
>It's about motor skill development and dexterity. 
>  
>
You may want to ask how long ago this theory was developed. I think that
this particular theory may need some substantial updating... we've
(mankind) learned a lot about human development since the early 1960s.
More recent books on human development have been written since then. I
think that this might just be a hold over that is explained away without
thought.

Also... think about how small the joints are in little fingers. A pencil
that big is actually harder to manage because of the physical
constraints of the human hand. Of course, I don't write like people
would want me to write, I write like I write (you know, the whole 'move
the hand', 'hold the pencil right') thing.

>Obviously not essential, but helpful in getting primary school kids to
>develop writing skills more readily.
>
>My point was about teeny keyboards and young children having the developed
>motor skills to use them efficiently.
>  
>
Actually, kids should have less trouble with keyboards since it's
basically learning how to point instead of learning how to draw
hieroglyphic lines with an oak tree. But that's an opinion,
substantiated only with my own experience.


-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

Hello John,

>I call it the Tyranny of the Instant. And it seems
>to be getting worse.

This can be a topic on its own. I think many of the
DDN issues are more human and social. Such as this
one. It might have moved away from the original
subject topic, but ...

Personally I think most people took the 'instant'
motto  too far. With that we gradually
changing/destroying our private and social life. And
sometime political. Cell phones and instant messages
are not the only problem, we have CNN, BBC world news
and others that bring in good or bad news from around
the world instantly. I think we become 'frangmented'
because we are not 'allow' the time and the space to
think, to plan, to research more before taking action.
We are being pushed to give 'on the spot' decisions,
and then have to swallow the blame if something goes
wrong. I am sure many of us have seen enough of the
recent Katrina so called unfolding events. On certain
issues I like the exposures, but on others I don't
think it is really fair...

In the UK and I think also in NL, cell phone are
banned on some train carriages. Passengers just want
to have some peace and quiet moments while travelling.


When I used to teach there was a rule we all observed,
both instructors and trainees, cell phones and pages
off or on vibration. Most trainees (professionals)
also had the courtesy to inform the instructor before
hand they might step out for urgent calls. I am quite
amazed to see laptops in the classroom these days. I
think there is a place for everything. I can imagine
some would argue about taking notes, but how about the
noise from machines and typing that might be annoying
to others? What about curtesy to the lecturers or
speakers? Why are we accepting it? It is becasue we
are afraid others would call us old fashion? Or do we
really need to be so Instant? 

Cindy Hoong
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

I used to have to carry laptop around the world. And
the 1997,98,99 ... models were 10 lbs each? 

Then I was asking, why do we have to carry a laptop
especially if I was travelling to locations where we
have our own branch offices. 

I am still asking the same question now that I no
longer have to carry laptop. Many times I am tempted
to get one BUT always talked myself out of it because
I know if I have one I WILL carry it everywhere I go.
And I don't want that. So, I use internet cafe or
libraries if I am not at home to use my desk-top. I
have to pay for the services, and I have to do some
extra work, some planning and make sure I have all the
files I would need email before hand, I even save and
send hyperlinks via email... Therefore, it is possible
for most people to just walk into any place that have
a PC, internet connections and be able to logon and
work. In my opion. 

Of course, I know there will be many, but, but, but
...  

Personally I think we have to look at accessing
information from a different angle. I look at info
super highway the same as transport system. We don't
have to buy a plane or a train or a ship to go from A
to Z. We only have to buy a ticket. 

Cindy Hoong
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jesse Sinaiko]

Big pencils. 

Much larger circumference than a normal thin, octagonal pencil.  Maybe 1/3
inch in diameter.  I see kids in Chicago Public Schools using them every
day.  I had them (and hated them) in first, second, and third grade (6, 7,
and 8 years old aprox.) back in the early 1960s.  

Last year I heard a fairly comprehensive explanation about why they are used
by a second grade teacher and department head.

It's about motor skill development and dexterity. 

Obviously not essential, but helpful in getting primary school kids to
develop writing skills more readily.

My point was about teeny keyboards and young children having the developed
motor skills to use them efficiently.

Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago, IL



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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Pamela McLean wrote:

> People in rural Nigeria need computers. The Solo may or may not be the
> ultimate ideal solution - I don't have the knowlege to judge it - but
> from the practical experience of people in and around Fantsuam it has
> proved itself to be uniquely suited to their needs and way out in
> front of anything else in many ways.

I think that this link may also be useful on the Solo:
http://www.explan.co.uk/solo/ (the link sent told us how much regular
PCs suck in the developing world). It's really a good looking system and
one I wouldn't mind getting my hands on to look at further.

The specifications are really interesting:
http://www.explan.co.uk/solo/specs.html
It is running Linux, so the applications are there with an easy install
- OpenOffice.org, etc., I am fairly certain. However, the base system
can't run OpenOffice - 32 MB or RAM just isn't enough. I'd like to hear
how these systems are being used by people... Cost is also a question mark.

This is really a very cool project, Pamela, and one I am glad you
brought to the fore (like other projects people have mentioned in this
thread). I think perhaps I'll do some more digging into these things.
The solar aspects are something I am practically exploring at this time.
Something that fits with this is also this: http://www.biodesign.org.uk/



-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jacqueline Morris]

Sorry - can you explain more about these big pencils in first grade
(BTW - how old is that?)
Didn't ever use anything like that - I started with normal #8 pencils
and crayons and by 7 moved on to fountain pens - this is at primary
school in Trindad and Tobago - started school at age 3 1/2 - 4.
Jacqueline

On 10/1/05, Jesse Sinaiko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jacques Wainer wrote:
>
> I am somewhat surprised by the lack of critical perspective regarding the
> $100 laptop, in this group.
>
> Some points:
>
> - efficacy. As it has been point out, there already exists the $100
>   used/refurbished laptop, the $400 new low end desktop, the $50 used
>   refurbished desktop. The main problem is not the price of the
>   computer, but the existence of trained teacher that can make a good
>   use of the equipment.
>
> - security. Bandits will form a line in front of schools to rob the
>   students laptop. If they are only marginally useful they will be
>   selling for $50 in every street corner. Some of the vendors will
>   not be thieves but the children parents.
>
> - ecology. For how long can a battery can be recharged? My cheap battery
>   lasted two years but I did not recharge it a lot, most of the time I
>   am plugged to the outlet. What to do with 150  million or so heavy
>   metal batteries in third world countries, in 2 years?
>
>
>
> All your points are well taken.  To them I would add, the issue of
> dexterity.  Remember those huge pencils in first and second grade?  Kids
> under ten have them for a reason; manual dexterity is not really developed
> enough before the age of ten or eleven to use a keyboard efficiently, from
> what I am given to understand, much less a teeny, tiny keyboard.  That
> pretty much rules out palm-sized devices or laptops with smaller keyboards
> for primary school aged kids.
>
> The battery issues that are raised are important as well.  Discarded
> batteries are a hazard.  Access to steady voltages is dodgy.  Along with
> developmental issues there are ecological and infrastructural problems that
> need to be addressed on a case-to-case basis.  This requires lots of
> planning.  As many have brought up on this list over and over again, in a
> plethora of contexts, just throwing hardware at folks is not a good thing.
>
> Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago, IL
>
>
>
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--
Jacqueline Morris
www.carnivalondenet.com
T&T Music and videos online

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[John Hibbs]

At 12:23 AM +0100 10/1/05, Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote:

For the young, and some professionals, cell phone and
WIFI are fashionable and/or on the go. But is it a
MUST? I wonder.


Cindy, at the University of Oregon I see large numbers walking 
through this lovely campus, heavy with trees and the colors of Fall, 
the ears glued to a cell phone. If one is near or with those in their 
early 20's, on can't play a game of pool, have a uninterrupted 
conversation, eat a meal without the interruption of a phone ring, 
followed quickly by "Hi Jimmy - what's up". Followed by inane 
conversation (usually brief) (followed by text messaging).


I call it the Tyranny of the Instant. And it seems to be getting worse.

Signed,
Complaining geezer
--
John W. Hibbs
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Pamela McLean]

I have been catching up with this thread and have been encouraged by its 
inclusion of practical details beyond simple hardware. I was interested 
to read the emails about problems getting to a cyber cafe,  and about  
maintenance costs and other issues  regarding new and recycled 
computers. Perhaps list members would be interested in practical 
details, on related topics, from Nigeria.



~ Ref access to cyber cafe's from Ibadan in Nigeria.
On Sundays I often try to be home from around 4 p.m,  ready for a 
possible yahoo chat with my friend Chief Gbade Adejumo. He is chairman 
of Oke-Ogun Community Development Network, and we try to keep in touch 
on alternate weekends. Last Sunday he apologised for keeping me waiting. 
He explained it was the usual problem of "congestion".  He has been 
waiting an hour to get online. The previous session was even worse - as 
illustrated by the excerpt below taken from the start of our chat.  

hello Pam i'm oni hav been struggling since 4pm to get in touch.this 
the 3rd cafe i'm in


the 1st was off air the 2nd i could not asaccess my box until i got here



When Chief did finally get through to me it was 7pm.



~ Ref issues around new and recycled computers .

Fantsuam Foundation has considerable experience of using recycled 
computers - and providing them to others - so it is  well acquainted 
with their benefits and disadvantages. Fantsuam Foundation is currently 
working  with ExpLAN on development of the Solo (low powered, low 
maintenance, long life, robust,  open source software)  computer.  It 
won't be cheap - but  its total cost of ownership will be very competitive.



The Solo is designed for a long life in rural Africa and is being 
thoroughly tested to perform well in local conditions and to suit local 
needs. It will be assembled locally, on a small scale (probably around 
100 units a month). Local assembly means that every purchase is 
accompanied  by money circulating in the local economy.  The design team 
has trained the small assembly team, and will keep them abreast of 
relevant new developments, so there will be ongoing technology transfer. 
The little maintenance that is likely to be required will be provided 
through the local producers.


When demand grows additional small assembly centres will be set up 
elsewhere, in a similar way to the way things have developed at 
Fantsuam..Initial training took place earlier this year. The Fantsuam 
team has been testing and demonstrating the Solo in various places 
since, and working on the practicalities of sourcing components, raising 
start-up funds, attracting advance orders and so on A discussion of the 
limtations of PCs and the benefits of the Solo can be found at 
www.explan.co.uk/solo/appropriate.html.



People in rural Nigeria need computers. The Solo may or may not be the 
ultimate ideal solution - I don't have the knowlege to judge it - but 
from the practical experience of people in and around Fantsuam it has 
proved itself  to be uniquely suited to their needs and way out in front 
of anything else in many ways.



Pam


Pamela McLean
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CAWDnet convenor
www.cawd.info

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Alfred Bork wrote:

>Who is 'we?' 
>
>Not me. Learning as practiced today, in both the rich and poor parts of the
>world, is poor at best, and often nonexistent. Nothing works! For the US,
>see for example the publications of the National Academy of Sciences in
>reading, writing, and arithmetic. Or read the almost daily bombardment in
>the press on the poor quality of learning. 
>  
>
But that doesn't make you and I stupid, does it Alfred?

>For the rest of the world, talk to the billion children who have no schools.
>  
>
And the ones who do have schools aren't doing so hot either, are they?

>Nature seems to have tolerated plenty of failures! 
>  
>
Nature is something geologists understand pretty well. It takes time.

>If some of you would like to see a draft paper of what I think should happen
>to lead to learning for all, plese let me know.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Do you have a website for it, Alfred? You could just throw us a link.


-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Alfred Bork]

Who is 'we?' 

Not me. Learning as practiced today, in both the rich and poor parts of the
world, is poor at best, and often nonexistent. Nothing works! For the US,
see for example the publications of the National Academy of Sciences in
reading, writing, and arithmetic. Or read the almost daily bombardment in
the press on the poor quality of learning. 

For the rest of the world, talk to the billion children who have no schools.

Nature seems to have tolerated plenty of failures! 

If some of you would like to see a draft paper of what I think should happen
to lead to learning for all, plese let me know.   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Alfred

-Original Message- Taran Rampersad
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:59 PM


Why not wait for 99 studies of empirical evidence to support what we
know already works?

Nature doesn't have a plan. It simply doesn't tolerate failures.

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

ehewitt wrote:

> $99 or $100 is still a huge % out of an annual income of US$365-- $1 a
> day.
> Errol Hewitt
> COMNET-IT -- Jamaica

Yup, and when it breaks, I'm guessing that the funders of the project
will be the ones supplying the parts - in one guise or another. And you
won't be able to get them elsewhere, so they can charge more money.

Hooray, Negroponte!

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Why not wait for 99 studies of empirical evidence to support what we
know already works?

Nature doesn't have a plan. It simply doesn't tolerate failures.

Alfred Bork wrote:

>Why not wait for the 99 cent laptop?
>
>Alfred
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Thompson
>Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 7:07 AM
>To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group'
>Subject: RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
>
>Don't know about everyone else, but I think I'll wait for the $99 laptop.
>
>John T. Thompson, Ph.D.
>
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>in the body of the message.
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Larry Press wrote:

>> So yes, fast internet is necessary. Definitely. But with less bloated
>> data, you don't need as much of a connection. Open Challenge: Someone
>> send me a Microsoft Office document, and I can send it back to you
>> smaller in an open format.
>
>
> Cutting a the size of MS Office documents is a good thing, but will be
> less
> relevant in the future.

So will Microsoft.

> Audio and video data and rich applications will demand more bandwidth.

They already do.

> Higher bandwidth also makes for ease of use.

Not necessarily. Higher bandwidth can lead to more infoglut. That's why
search engines like Google make money. On a global system level, file
size decrease is important to decrease the infrastructure... or it will
be like drains clogged with plastic rubbish.

> While we should make efficient
> use of the bandwidth we have (AJAX may help too with some Web apps), we
> should not settle for low bandwidth in developing nations. 

Trust me, nothing I write should be taken as settling for low bandwidth
in developing nations. But using it wisely now can allow for more cost
effective growth so that more people can subsidize the infrastructure to
allow greater bandwidth. However, as I mentioned before a few times, the
main problem with developing nations and bandwidth is not as much
technical or economical - it's legislative, and in some business cases,
because of a lack of leverage small countries have against large
multinational telecommunications corporations.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Alfred Bork]

Why not wait for the 99 cent laptop?

Alfred

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Thompson
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 7:07 AM
To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group'
Subject: RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

Don't know about everyone else, but I think I'll wait for the $99 laptop.

John T. Thompson, Ph.D.

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[ehewitt]

$99 or $100 is still a huge % out of an annual income of US$365-- $1 a day.
Errol Hewitt
COMNET-IT -- Jamaica
At 10:07 01/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:

Don't know about everyone else, but I think I'll wait for the $99 laptop.

John T. Thompson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor & Coordinator
Educational Computing Program
Computer Information Systems Dept.
Chase 208, Buffalo State College
1300 Elmwood Avenue, Buffalo, NY 14222
(716) 878-3531 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.buffalostate.edu/depts/edcomputing/

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
 ~ Charles Darwin
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jacqueline
Morris
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:57 PM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

This one I agree with. This year I've logged nearly 50,000 miles going
to meetings. I've travelled with desktop replacemnt lts, multimedia
lts - the one I LOVE is the 10" tablet. Cause it's light, under 3 lbs.
After a trip from Trinidad to Johannesburg, that extra 2-4 lbs causes
quite a few days shoulder strain in this 40+ body. No CDrw, no DVD
etc. But I give up that quite easily for the weight. Similarly - my
iPod is now too heavy to carry every day - I want a Nano!
Jacqueline

On 10/2/05, Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alfred Bork wrote:
>
> >It is, I believe, dubious that everyone will be using palmtop computing.
The
> >small screen makes it undesirable for many applications.
> >
> >Until there is reliable evidence, gathered through careful
experimentation,
> >I doubt that excellent learning, for example, can take place on small
> >screens. But I do not think that hardware in any form will, alone, solve
our
> >major worldwide problems.
> >
> >
> There's a new generation coming up that will be comfortable for with
> those screens. And the careful experimentation when it comes to such
> technology is... watch what sells.
>
> As Andy pointed out, using a cell phone for online activities can be a
> monotonous task. But that's with present technologies that we are used
> to... like QWERTY keyboards. And QWERTY keyboards were actually designed
> to slow down typists, lest we forget. In the days of the typewriter,
> metal keys stuck together if you typed too fast. We like big monitors.
> But, consider a roll up monitor (it's coming). A roll up keyboard, even
> QWERTY available for we dinosaurs.
>
> If you wish to sit down and wait for empirical evidence, more power to
> you. Myself? I'll use what's easiest to move with. 7.5 lbs for a laptop
> is rather irksome, as it is, if you have to travel (and imagine - they
> weighed my carry-on baggage on the way to Guyana, and got upset when it
> was over 17 pounds!).
>
> Bottom line - studies can only be done with something that exists. I
> look forward to the results of your empirical studies, but I'm more
> interested in what works for me. :-)
>
>
>
> --
> Taran Rampersad
> Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.knowprose.com
> http://www.easylum.net
> http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran
>
> Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com
>
> "Criticize by creating." - Michelangelo
>
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>


--
Jacqueline Morris
www.carnivalondenet.com
T&T Music and videos online

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Jesse Sinaiko wrote:

> To them I would add, the issue of
>dexterity.  Remember those huge pencils in first and second grade?  Kids
>under ten have them for a reason; manual dexterity is not really developed
>enough before the age of ten or eleven to use a keyboard efficiently, from
>what I am given to understand, much less a teeny, tiny keyboard.
>
Frankly, I remember that huge pencil that was HEAVY and did not suit my
hand. I remember that pencil as a torture device which was more suitable
for hitting things than writing things. Have there been any studies
about the use of these pencils?

As far as a teeny, tiny keyboard - I think that, since the process of
myelinization is complete by the time kids start writing, we may be
amazed at how fast they pick up on something that requires a light
stylus. One of the problems of dexterity for children is that they are
being taught to use adult tools that simply are HEAVY.

Myelinization, by the way, is where the myelium sheaths grow over the
nerves. The sometimes spastic movements of newborns are attributed to
the lack of these sheaths; they serve as insulators and without them
nerves fire and muscles react spastically. (Ref: Language Development,
an Introduction by Robert E. Owens, Jr, 1984). This develops muscle
during this period, and oddly enough creates strength necessary for when
myelinization is complete.

Too much of the world, I think, is focused on making kids do what we do
with the tools we do. We will give children toy hammers that are light,
but we give them heavier pencils than we use to communicate. Very strange.

>  That
>pretty much rules out palm-sized devices or laptops with smaller keyboards
>for primary school aged kids.
>  
>
I disagree, so it's a matter of different opinions. I believe a palmtop
that is interactive can be much more effective for teaching children
since they don't have to fight with a heavy implement.

>The battery issues that are raised are important as well.  Discarded
>batteries are a hazard.  Access to steady voltages is dodgy.  Along with
>developmental issues there are ecological and infrastructural problems that
>need to be addressed on a case-to-case basis.  This requires lots of
>planning.  As many have brought up on this list over and over again, in a
>plethora of contexts, just throwing hardware at folks is not a good thing.
>  
>
I've seen it first hand throughout the Caribbean. I can only imagine
what happens in other areas... but consider when I toss a computer part
away here in Trinidad and Tobago, it goes to the dump. Arsenic, and
other pollutants are in it. Car batteries typically end up in the same
place (though I use them for other things), and so on. Much of this
'computer donation' business can cause long term pollution problems. If
you're going to pull the tiger's tail, you better have a plan for the
teeth. Of course, if someone else is standing in front of the tiger,
some people don't care too awful much about those teeth.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[John Thompson]

Don't know about everyone else, but I think I'll wait for the $99 laptop.

John T. Thompson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor & Coordinator
Educational Computing Program
Computer Information Systems Dept.
Chase 208, Buffalo State College
1300 Elmwood Avenue, Buffalo, NY 14222
(716) 878-3531 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
http://www.buffalostate.edu/depts/edcomputing/
 
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." 
 ~ Charles Darwin
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jacqueline
Morris
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:57 PM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

This one I agree with. This year I've logged nearly 50,000 miles going
to meetings. I've travelled with desktop replacemnt lts, multimedia
lts - the one I LOVE is the 10" tablet. Cause it's light, under 3 lbs.
After a trip from Trinidad to Johannesburg, that extra 2-4 lbs causes
quite a few days shoulder strain in this 40+ body. No CDrw, no DVD
etc. But I give up that quite easily for the weight. Similarly - my
iPod is now too heavy to carry every day - I want a Nano!
Jacqueline

On 10/2/05, Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alfred Bork wrote:
>
> >It is, I believe, dubious that everyone will be using palmtop computing.
The
> >small screen makes it undesirable for many applications.
> >
> >Until there is reliable evidence, gathered through careful
experimentation,
> >I doubt that excellent learning, for example, can take place on small
> >screens. But I do not think that hardware in any form will, alone, solve
our
> >major worldwide problems.
> >
> >
> There's a new generation coming up that will be comfortable for with
> those screens. And the careful experimentation when it comes to such
> technology is... watch what sells.
>
> As Andy pointed out, using a cell phone for online activities can be a
> monotonous task. But that's with present technologies that we are used
> to... like QWERTY keyboards. And QWERTY keyboards were actually designed
> to slow down typists, lest we forget. In the days of the typewriter,
> metal keys stuck together if you typed too fast. We like big monitors.
> But, consider a roll up monitor (it's coming). A roll up keyboard, even
> QWERTY available for we dinosaurs.
>
> If you wish to sit down and wait for empirical evidence, more power to
> you. Myself? I'll use what's easiest to move with. 7.5 lbs for a laptop
> is rather irksome, as it is, if you have to travel (and imagine - they
> weighed my carry-on baggage on the way to Guyana, and got upset when it
> was over 17 pounds!).
>
> Bottom line - studies can only be done with something that exists. I
> look forward to the results of your empirical studies, but I'm more
> interested in what works for me. :-)
>
>
>
> --
> Taran Rampersad
> Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.knowprose.com
> http://www.easylum.net
> http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran
>
> Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com
>
> "Criticize by creating." - Michelangelo
>
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>


--
Jacqueline Morris
www.carnivalondenet.com
T&T Music and videos online

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Larry Press]

So yes, fast internet is necessary. Definitely. But with less bloated
data, you don't need as much of a connection. Open Challenge: Someone
send me a Microsoft Office document, and I can send it back to you
smaller in an open format.


Cutting a the size of MS Office documents is a good thing, but will be less
relevant in the future.

Audio and video data and rich applications will demand more bandwidth.
Higher bandwidth also makes for ease of use.  While we should make 
efficient

use of the bandwidth we have (AJAX may help too with some Web apps), we
should not settle for low bandwidth in developing nations.

Larry Press
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jesse Sinaiko]

Jacques Wainer wrote: 

I am somewhat surprised by the lack of critical perspective regarding the
$100 laptop, in this group.

Some points:

- efficacy. As it has been point out, there already exists the $100
  used/refurbished laptop, the $400 new low end desktop, the $50 used
  refurbished desktop. The main problem is not the price of the
  computer, but the existence of trained teacher that can make a good
  use of the equipment.

- security. Bandits will form a line in front of schools to rob the
  students laptop. If they are only marginally useful they will be
  selling for $50 in every street corner. Some of the vendors will
  not be thieves but the children parents.

- ecology. For how long can a battery can be recharged? My cheap battery
  lasted two years but I did not recharge it a lot, most of the time I
  am plugged to the outlet. What to do with 150  million or so heavy
  metal batteries in third world countries, in 2 years?



All your points are well taken.  To them I would add, the issue of
dexterity.  Remember those huge pencils in first and second grade?  Kids
under ten have them for a reason; manual dexterity is not really developed
enough before the age of ten or eleven to use a keyboard efficiently, from
what I am given to understand, much less a teeny, tiny keyboard.  That
pretty much rules out palm-sized devices or laptops with smaller keyboards
for primary school aged kids.

The battery issues that are raised are important as well.  Discarded
batteries are a hazard.  Access to steady voltages is dodgy.  Along with
developmental issues there are ecological and infrastructural problems that
need to be addressed on a case-to-case basis.  This requires lots of
planning.  As many have brought up on this list over and over again, in a
plethora of contexts, just throwing hardware at folks is not a good thing.

Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago, IL



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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Jesse N. Sinaiko wrote:

>Rebecca wrote:  It is interesting to note, however, that more young people
>in Japan and South Korea access the internet via cell phone than via PC. 
>
>Right, but for what? Chat?  Music?  
>
>Although I have no proof at hand, I'd be surprised if much of that was
>around education.
>
>Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago
>  
>
Actually, blogging - and if you go to TXTPower.org, you may see how SMS
technology has been used to create change in government. As far as
education - well, maybe not formal education. But they do know how to
use internet via cell phone, whereas many older people do not. They can
surf from wherever they are, get the latest information isn't part
of education being able to find and process information? I'd have to say
that this is a building block that could be used without hiring more
administrators.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Why the "$100" computer generates so much traffic every time it appears on
this list is very curious- more heat and light -perhaps something everyone
can image and thus everyone projects it into their world and thus has an
idea.

I think we need to first think about the "future"- that is the next and
next generation and what they want and/or have access to in the developed
world for example. Think txt msg, think ipods, smart cells and these mini,
hand-held, virtual games and MMRPG's. Think voip voice-to-text and
text-to-voice, think multimedia and the cell phone which is as powerful as
laptops only a few years ago.

The $100 computer is solving a problem of the past for those who were
raised and lived in the past- who are used to large screens and full
keyboards and who respond to this list on these systems

current learning systems such as the asynchronous conference systems, lcms,
such as WebCT and Blackboard are to learning and com systems of the future
what the "horseless carriage was to the "automobile"- a poor simulacrum of
what is emerging, commercially.

As someone said here, get these distributed and they will be obsolete
before they are turned on.

And, Alfred is right- hardware, alone, isn't the answer. But it is a simple
default for the unimaginative. And, for agencies, its something that can be
seen and felt so that the expenditures can be accounted for. 

thoughts?

tom abeles


mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .



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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote:

>I for one absolutely agreed. 
>
>Less than a year after I bought my Palm pilot, I
>stopped using it. The bother of constantly having to
>pull out my reading glasses before I could do anything
>.. Instead I regularly print a copy of my Yahoo.
>address book and the agenda... 
>
>As for SMS ... for the same reason I seldom use it,
>and I am not too please if someone send me one! 
>
>For the young, and some professionals, cell phone and
>WIFI are fashionable and/or on the go. But is it a
>MUST? I wonder. 
>
>Cindy 
>  
>
I know what you mean, Cindy. Today I found myself having trouble
focusing on some fine print. It was strange. But... I'm not getting any
younger, and maybe putting my ego aside may make me less obsolete (read:
Taran may be getting reading glasses in the next few years). And yet -
adaptation will have to happen for us. We talk about the elderly now and
then here, but even as we type we are becoming elderly. New generations
are coming. My second youngest niece has an old Apple laptop her Dad
handed down to her. I send her links to the Wikipedia via email. She's
turning 8 this year. 8! I started off with a Vic-20 when I was 10! So
she teaches about her future if I choose to learn... her world will be
different, and it's her world that we are also looking toward. Oddly, my
older nieces in the U.S. don't even have email addresses (or maybe they
don't wish to hurt Uncle Taran's feelings).

My father, who dealt with land management, used to see his lawyer with 2
boxes of files weighting exactly 54 lbs - I know, I weighed them because
I carried them. I walk in to see the lawyer with the same files in 7.5
lbs. Maybe the next leap could be ounces. Do we really want our kids
chained to heavy things to carry around? I wonder how many people used a
belt to band their books together when going to school... I did for a while.

We may not use them as much... but the future is not ours. We don't
inherit from our parents, we borrow from our children (Native American
Proverb). I'm a bit worried about the interest on that loan at this
point - and that's a double entendre.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jacqueline Morris]

This one I agree with. This year I've logged nearly 50,000 miles going
to meetings. I've travelled with desktop replacemnt lts, multimedia
lts - the one I LOVE is the 10" tablet. Cause it's light, under 3 lbs.
After a trip from Trinidad to Johannesburg, that extra 2-4 lbs causes
quite a few days shoulder strain in this 40+ body. No CDrw, no DVD
etc. But I give up that quite easily for the weight. Similarly - my
iPod is now too heavy to carry every day - I want a Nano!
Jacqueline

On 10/2/05, Taran Rampersad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alfred Bork wrote:
>
> >It is, I believe, dubious that everyone will be using palmtop computing. The
> >small screen makes it undesirable for many applications.
> >
> >Until there is reliable evidence, gathered through careful experimentation,
> >I doubt that excellent learning, for example, can take place on small
> >screens. But I do not think that hardware in any form will, alone, solve our
> >major worldwide problems.
> >
> >
> There's a new generation coming up that will be comfortable for with
> those screens. And the careful experimentation when it comes to such
> technology is... watch what sells.
>
> As Andy pointed out, using a cell phone for online activities can be a
> monotonous task. But that's with present technologies that we are used
> to... like QWERTY keyboards. And QWERTY keyboards were actually designed
> to slow down typists, lest we forget. In the days of the typewriter,
> metal keys stuck together if you typed too fast. We like big monitors.
> But, consider a roll up monitor (it's coming). A roll up keyboard, even
> QWERTY available for we dinosaurs.
>
> If you wish to sit down and wait for empirical evidence, more power to
> you. Myself? I'll use what's easiest to move with. 7.5 lbs for a laptop
> is rather irksome, as it is, if you have to travel (and imagine - they
> weighed my carry-on baggage on the way to Guyana, and got upset when it
> was over 17 pounds!).
>
> Bottom line - studies can only be done with something that exists. I
> look forward to the results of your empirical studies, but I'm more
> interested in what works for me. :-)
>
>
>
> --
> Taran Rampersad
> Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.knowprose.com
> http://www.easylum.net
> http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran
>
> Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com
>
> "Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo
>
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--
Jacqueline Morris
www.carnivalondenet.com
T&T Music and videos online

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Jesse Sinaiko wrote:

>Taran Rampersad wrote:  But by the time they are distributed, everyone will
>be using palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the
>divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop and
>laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think.
>
>Taran -
>
>Why?  What are the real-world advantages to palmtop as opposed to laptop?
>For myself, I can't stand the microscopic screens on palm-type machines and
>many, many others have the same issue.
>  
>
It's smaller. It's really that simple. Distributed computing is coming.
Let's not become the IBM President who once said that there was a market
for only 5 computers in the world... kids growing up now are likely to
be using wearable and palmtop devices in the next 20 years while we
(then) old people lug around laptops.

We're not talking just about a digital divide. Resistance to change on
this will result in a generational divide as well. For the longest time,
I avoided having a laptop. Period. Now I have one, and a desktop system
is something I consider to be a pain because I have to sit where *it*
is. A laptop with wireless access is better, but it's still limited by
it's power cord and battery consumption. A palmtop or wearable computer
extends battery life, and reduces the need for a cord. In fact... MIT
has experimented (and probably still is) with computing that is powered
by the electricity we generate when we walk.

I turned 34 two days ago. In 6 years, I'll be 40. In 16 years, I'll be
50. You get the idea. Let's go with 6 years. In 6 years, if 'Moore's
Law' holds constant, I'll have lived through 4 evolutions of technology
where the amount of processing power doubles per unit size. A laptop
will be a server, unless you need to do something like crack encryptions
(hello, CARNIVORE!). Interfaces will change too.

So, yes, palmtops suck for a lot of people. But check the demographic of
the people that they suck for. Hand a kid a Palm sized computer like a
Simputer and see what happens. And if you want a real lesson in
humility, walk into an arcade and get schooled by a 6 year old at a 6
button game. :-)

>I don't understand the advantages beyond the fact that one slings over one's
>shoulder and other can fit into a large pocket.  That's nice, but by no
>means crucial.  So why move to more expensive, less adaptable technology?
>  
>
It's not more expensive or less adaptable. Palmtop computing is already
giving laptops a run for their money... if the laptop isn't running
Linux, that is. So operating system is a factor, which leads me to...

>My laptop is a P-II 450.  Runs XP fine.  It's heavier than the newest
>laptops but it does the job, and if it gets clobbered or gorked, no big
>deal.
>
Gorked. You'll have to explain Gorked. :-)

And if you ran another operating system, your laptop will continue to
give you better performance. But, then, what do you use the laptop for?
Is it just using Microsoft Office and email, or do you have more
specialized applications you could use? If you only need applications
like that, then you can do all of that with a palmtop. And if you wanted
to, you could hook up a keyboard to it. They have some nice roll-up
keyboards I want to get, but the focus is on other things right now. I
expect that if people wanted it, they could get manufacturers to allow
SVideo output as well so you could hook to your comfy monitor.

It works for you now, I agree. And you apparently don't walk with it on
your back too much. After the last few months and this 7.5 lb Gateway
strapped on my back, I can tell you that I prefer something I can wear
on a harness.

>  So I agree with Mike; let's get all the surplus laptops we can out to
>those who need them NOW and worry about micro/nano tech later.
>  
>
Yeah, well... they just become obsolete and end up in landfills in the
developing world. I suppose it's a good place to throw the trash.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

ehewitt wrote:

> Hi Taran,
> I would add " And you better do the 'by pass the laptop' dance quickly
> as there are still even better things waiting in the wings"
> Errol

They don't get it. They love their problem, and don't want to solve it.
It pays them well. :-) Sort of like Caribbean ICT Ministers. LOL.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Alfred Bork wrote:

>It is, I believe, dubious that everyone will be using palmtop computing. The
>small screen makes it undesirable for many applications. 
>
>Until there is reliable evidence, gathered through careful experimentation,
>I doubt that excellent learning, for example, can take place on small
>screens. But I do not think that hardware in any form will, alone, solve our
>major worldwide problems.
>  
>
There's a new generation coming up that will be comfortable for with
those screens. And the careful experimentation when it comes to such
technology is... watch what sells.

As Andy pointed out, using a cell phone for online activities can be a
monotonous task. But that's with present technologies that we are used
to... like QWERTY keyboards. And QWERTY keyboards were actually designed
to slow down typists, lest we forget. In the days of the typewriter,
metal keys stuck together if you typed too fast. We like big monitors.
But, consider a roll up monitor (it's coming). A roll up keyboard, even
QWERTY available for we dinosaurs.

If you wish to sit down and wait for empirical evidence, more power to
you. Myself? I'll use what's easiest to move with. 7.5 lbs for a laptop
is rather irksome, as it is, if you have to travel (and imagine - they
weighed my carry-on baggage on the way to Guyana, and got upset when it
was over 17 pounds!).

Bottom line - studies can only be done with something that exists. I
look forward to the results of your empirical studies, but I'm more
interested in what works for me. :-)



-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Alfred Bork wrote:

>This topic has produced several letters. But like many things on this list
>it is looking only at hardware to solve problems. That will never happen
>with any of the major global problems, I predict. They are too complex to be
>solved by hardware ALONE.
>  
>
Right. But when we talk about computing, it encapsulates hardware,
software and usability. At least when I talk about people using
computers in future, you can assume that I mean all of that combined. It
saves a lot of typing, thus reducing the size of emails, thus allowing
more data to be transmitted per unit character. Maybe. No data on that yet.

Dunno about 'High Noon'. I have my own list of 20 critical global
problems. Actually, 100. Maybe I should write a book.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Alfred Bork]

This topic is certainly an active one!

Errol suggests we wait for future technology. But the global problems are
ones that we must solve now if we are to survive. Eventually powerful
computers will probably be planted in our brains at birth, all
interconnected, but we cannot afford to wait. Hardware alone will never be
sufficient, as I have already suggested..

We can solve them with today's technology! We need software that adapts
continuously to EACH USER.  This is not new. It has been possible for many
years.


Alfred

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[wainer]

I am somewhat surprised by the lack of critical perspective regarding
the $100 laptop, in this group.

Some points:

- efficacy. As it has been point out, there already exists the $100
  used/refurbished laptop, the $400 new low end desktop, the $50 used
  refurbished desktop. The main problem is not the price of the
  computer, but the existence of trained teacher that can make a good
  use of the equipment.

- security. Bandits will form a line in front of schools to rob the
  students laptop. If they are only marginally useful they will be
  selling for $50 in every street corner. Some of the vendors will
  not be thieves but the children parents.

- ecology. For how long can a battery can be recharged? My cheap battery
  lasted two years but I did not recharge it a lot, most of the time I
  am plugged to the outlet. What to do with 150  million or so heavy
  metal batteries in third world countries, in 2 years?

jacques wainer
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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Larry Press wrote:

>
> Folks,
>
> Regardless of the form factor -- PC, laptop, PDA, cell phone, tablet,
> etc. -- it needs a fast connection to the Net.
>
> For many of the applications we are discussing, a connected PDA would
> be superior to a stand alone super computer.
>
> The connectivity part is difficult because it requires a coordinated
> infrastructure investment.
>
> Larry

Yes, this is the BIGGEST problem! They talk about the last mile... in a
lot of countries, it's the last country. I met a new friend at the
MobileActive Convergence... from the DRC (Congo), who crosses a border
to stand in line at a cybercafe in the hope that they don't close before
he gets to use a computer.

The main problem with internet access that I have seen in the developing
world is related to telecommunications regulation. Not technology. Law
before connectivity is the rule. Bad rule, in my opinion.

So yes, fast internet is necessary. Definitely. But with less bloated
data, you don't need as much of a connection. Open Challenge: Someone
send me a Microsoft Office document, and I can send it back to you
smaller in an open format. Unfortunately, Microsoft doesn't support
it... but that format is used by OpenOffice.org and has reduced file
sizes TO 33% of the Microsoft sizes that I have seen.

Or just try RTF (Rich Text Format). An algorithm that decreases the time
it takes to do something in half is always better than a processor that
is twice as fast as the previous processor. And that goes with size too.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

I for one absolutely agreed. 

Less than a year after I bought my Palm pilot, I
stopped using it. The bother of constantly having to
pull out my reading glasses before I could do anything
... Instead I regularly print a copy of my Yahoo
address book and the agenda... 

As for SMS ... for the same reason I seldom use it,
and I am not too please if someone send me one! 

For the young, and some professionals, cell phone and
WIFI are fashionable and/or on the go. But is it a
MUST? I wonder. 

Cindy 

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jesse N. Sinaiko]

Rebecca wrote:  It is interesting to note, however, that more young people
in Japan and South Korea access the internet via cell phone than via PC. 

Right, but for what? Chat?  Music?  

Although I have no proof at hand, I'd be surprised if much of that was
around education.

Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Rebecca MacKinnon]

It is interesting to note, however, that more young people in Japan and
South Korea access the internet via cell phone than via PC. 

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:digitaldivide-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alfred Bork
>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:20 PM
>To: 'The Digital Divide Network discussion group'
>Subject: RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
>
>It is, I believe, dubious that everyone will be using palmtop computing.
>The
>small screen makes it undesirable for many applications.
>
>Until there is reliable evidence, gathered through careful experimentation,
>I doubt that excellent learning, for example, can take place on small
>screens. But I do not think that hardware in any form will, alone, solve
>our
>major worldwide problems.
>
>
>Alfred
>University of California, Irvine
>Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Science
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taran
>Rampersad
>Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:13 AM
>To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
>Subject: Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop
>
>Executive Director wrote:
>
>>I don't think we have to create the $100 laptop, and reinvent the wheel.
>>We already have the $100 refurbished PII laptop. All we need to do is
>>distribute them.
>>
>>Mike
>>*
>>Michael F. Pitsch
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>Yup. But by the time they are distributed, everyone will be using
>palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the
>divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop
>and laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think.
>
>--
>Taran Rampersad
>
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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Larry Press]

Folks,

Regardless of the form factor -- PC, laptop, PDA, cell phone, tablet, 
etc. -- it needs a fast connection to the Net.


For many of the applications we are discussing, a connected PDA would be 
superior to a stand alone super computer.


The connectivity part is difficult because it requires a coordinated 
infrastructure investment.


Larry



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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[ehewitt]

Hi Taran,
I would add " And you better do the 'by pass the laptop' dance quickly as 
there are still even better things waiting in the wings"

Errol

--

At 02:12 30/09/2005 -0600, you wrote:

Executive Director wrote:

>I don't think we have to create the $100 laptop, and reinvent the wheel.
>We already have the $100 refurbished PII laptop. All we need to do is
>distribute them.
>
>Mike
>*
>Michael F. Pitsch
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
Yup. But by the time they are distributed, everyone will be using
palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the
divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop
and laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think.

--
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Andy Carvin]

Alfred Bork wrote:

It is, I believe, dubious that everyone will be using palmtop computing. The
small screen makes it undesirable for many applications. 





I've had an interesting time over the last couple of days trying to 
access the Internet, as my laptop has been in the repair shop since 
someone accidentally kicked it at the MIT Tech Review conference on 
Wednesday. Since I work from home, it's currently my only computer, and 
Susanne's laptop is usually with her. So that's meant I've been doing 
about 90% of my online activities over my mobile phone for the last 48 
hours. (except this email - Susanne's taking a break and letting me use 
her laptop.)


After 48 hours, I've concluded that I simply cannot function for great 
lengths of time without a laptop. The phone is great for reading email 
and browsing simply-designed websites, but it's a real chore for 
anything requiring me to produce anything - writing lengthy emails, 
blogging, editing documents, etc. While technically I can do all of 
these things with a palmtop, it's slowing down my productivity 
significantly. It's also exacerbating repetitive stress injuries; my 
phone's keyboard begins to kill my thumbs after just a few minutes of 
typing.


If all goes well, I'll have my laptop back on Monday. I'm counting the 
hours until then. I love my phone for keeping in touch with the world, 
but I wouldn't want to use it to mediate all my communications with the 
world. Then again, maybe I just need to get a folding keyboard for the 
phone; _that_ might solve some problems... :-)


ac



Andy Carvin
Program Director
EDC Center for Media & Community
acarvin @ edc . org
http://www.digitaldivide.net
Blog: http://www.andycarvin.com


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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Alfred Bork]

It is, I believe, dubious that everyone will be using palmtop computing. The
small screen makes it undesirable for many applications. 

Until there is reliable evidence, gathered through careful experimentation,
I doubt that excellent learning, for example, can take place on small
screens. But I do not think that hardware in any form will, alone, solve our
major worldwide problems.


Alfred
University of California, Irvine
Donald Bren School of Information and Computer Science

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Taran Rampersad
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:13 AM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

Executive Director wrote:

>I don't think we have to create the $100 laptop, and reinvent the wheel.
>We already have the $100 refurbished PII laptop. All we need to do is
>distribute them.
>
>Mike
>*
>Michael F. Pitsch
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
>
Yup. But by the time they are distributed, everyone will be using
palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the
divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop
and laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think.

-- 
Taran Rampersad

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Adams, Jason]

Also, Internet Protocol version 6 will be all over the place by 2008, making
wireless Internet much much easier, eventually becoming the main way to
access the Internet, I'd think.  "Palmtops" (with a wireless Internet
connection and greater mobility) will definitely be in high use by then or
soon after.

Jason Adams
Washoe County Library (Reno)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Taran
Rampersad
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:13 AM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop


Executive Director wrote:

>I don't think we have to create the $100 laptop, and reinvent the wheel.
>We already have the $100 refurbished PII laptop. All we need to do is
>distribute them.
>
>Mike
>*
>Michael F. Pitsch
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
>
Yup. But by the time they are distributed, everyone will be using
palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the
divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop
and laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Jesse Sinaiko]

Taran Rampersad wrote:  But by the time they are distributed, everyone will
be using palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the
divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop and
laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think.

Taran -

Why?  What are the real-world advantages to palmtop as opposed to laptop?
For myself, I can't stand the microscopic screens on palm-type machines and
many, many others have the same issue.  

I don't understand the advantages beyond the fact that one slings over one's
shoulder and other can fit into a large pocket.  That's nice, but by no
means crucial.  So why move to more expensive, less adaptable technology?

My laptop is a P-II 450.  Runs XP fine.  It's heavier than the newest
laptops but it does the job, and if it gets clobbered or gorked, no big
deal.  So I agree with Mike; let's get all the surplus laptops we can out to
those who need them NOW and worry about micro/nano tech later.

Jesse Sinaiko - Chicago





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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Executive Director wrote:

>I don't think we have to create the $100 laptop, and reinvent the wheel.
>We already have the $100 refurbished PII laptop. All we need to do is
>distribute them.
>
>Mike
>*
>Michael F. Pitsch
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  
>
Yup. But by the time they are distributed, everyone will be using
palmtop computing. So the real thing to do if we want to bridge the
divide is to jump the laptop gap in the first place. Bypass the desktop
and laptops wherever we can. Honestly, that's the only way, I think.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Alfred Bork]

This topic has produced several letters. But like many things on this list
it is looking only at hardware to solve problems. That will never happen
with any of the major global problems, I predict. They are too complex to be
solved by hardware ALONE.

None of the twenty critical global problems discussed in High Noon are
closer to solution than they were several years ago when the book was
published. There are some ideas, but not fully understood yet.


Alfred Bork



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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Cindy Lemcke-Hoong wrote:

>>Many people are already creating cheap computing for
>>the masses, aside from the Simputer, and they have
>>things that are actually *working*, and don't get as
>>much media spin as Negroponte.
>>
>>
>
>My question is: what is stopping DDN promoting
>products such as Simputer? These companies are
>generally too small, too short of cash to spend on
>marketing. What is stopping DDN membership to promote
>Simputer (or alike) to NGOs that can benefit from such
>products? I see a win-win situation. 
>
>Cindy
>  
>
Well, first I'll make the delineation. The Simputer is an open hardware
product. We can promote the Simputer, but I don't know that DDN should
promote specific versions of the Simputer. That shows a commercial bias.
However, the Simputer itself could be highlighted without commercial bias.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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RE: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Executive Director]

I don't think we have to create the $100 laptop, and reinvent the wheel.
We already have the $100 refurbished PII laptop. All we need to do is
distribute them.

Mike
*
Michael F. Pitsch
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cindy
Lemcke-Hoong
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:12 PM
To: The Digital Divide Network discussion group
Subject: Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

>Many people are already creating cheap computing for
>the masses, aside from the Simputer, and they have
>things that are actually *working*, and don't get as
>much media spin as Negroponte.

My question is: what is stopping DDN promoting
products such as Simputer? These companies are
generally too small, too short of cash to spend on
marketing. What is stopping DDN membership to promote
Simputer (or alike) to NGOs that can benefit from such
products? I see a win-win situation. 

Cindy



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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Cindy Lemcke-Hoong]

>Many people are already creating cheap computing for
>the masses, aside from the Simputer, and they have
>things that are actually *working*, and don't get as
>much media spin as Negroponte.

My question is: what is stopping DDN promoting
products such as Simputer? These companies are
generally too small, too short of cash to spend on
marketing. What is stopping DDN membership to promote
Simputer (or alike) to NGOs that can benefit from such
products? I see a win-win situation. 

Cindy



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Re: [DDN] Creating the $100 Laptop

[Taran Rampersad]

Andy Carvin wrote:

> The fifth annual MIT Technology Review Emerging Technology Conference
> kicked off this morning with a presentation from Nicholas Negroponte
> of the MIT Media Lab. Negroponte discussed his $100 laptop initiative,
> in which he is working to produce a low-cost laptop for mass
> distribution in k-12 schools in the developing world.

Well, Negroponte still hasn't explained why he hasn't gone with open
standards. In fact, a contact at the WSIS LAC Regional meeting asked an
MIT person about why they didn't look at the Simputer, and I was told
that they couldn't get one.

I have one. Plus, the schematics are on Simputer.org.

Personally, I think Negroponte is just in the process of creating trade
subsidies. I wish someone who had a chance to interview him actually
asked some hard questions instead of buying into the MIT hype. Many
people are already creating cheap computing for the masses, aside from
the Simputer, and they have things that are actually *working*, and
don't get as much media spin as Negroponte.

-- 
Taran Rampersad
Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.knowprose.com
http://www.easylum.net
http://www.digitaldivide.net/profile/Taran

Coming on January 1st, 2006: http://www.OpenDepth.com

"Criticize by creating." — Michelangelo

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