Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Jim Craig]

On 10/9/2015 8:30 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 08 October 2015 16:04:42 Jim Craig wrote:
>
>>
>> Gene,
>>
>> How about a pic of one of those blanket chests?
>>
>> Jim
> I did, but the server is holding it for the moderator to clear as its not
> quite 20k over the 360k size limit allowed.  I smunched it down to a 20%
> quality jpg, because I could see jpg'ing artifacts if I went any lower.
>
> I'll try doing some cropping of some of the background in gimp.  Or is
> there now a more compact image compression format?  Cropping an image in
> gimp is the most frustrating thing I have ever tried, I have to ask for
> help on the gimp-users list every time, so it still has white borders.
> Damit, a crop should remove what you don't want, not fill it with white.
>
> Anyway, new version 2 attached, smunched enough that jpg is showing some
> artifacts.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
Very nice! I like the Joinery. What are you using for the square pins in 
the joint? I like some good woodworking.

My next big woodworking project is new office furniture. It will 
probably take me and my dad about a year to finish the project I want to 
do. Executive desk, full 12' wall of bookcases. printer cabinet and 
whatever else I can dream up. Right now I am working off a white plastic 
folding table, LOL.

Keep up the good work.

Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Greg Bernard]

 Very nice work, Gene. I see some Greene & Greene influence in your design 
whose work I'm very fond of.Your kids will have an heirloom to be proud of for 
generations.
+++
"Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is 
either a madman or an economist."
        -Kenneth Boulding, economist
“How unfortunate that the Earth’s first intelligent social animal is a tribal 
carnivore” 
    -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist

 
  From: Gene Heskett <ghesk...@wdtv.com>
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
 Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 8:30 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align 
and friends
   
On Thursday 08 October 2015 16:04:42 Jim Craig wrote:

> On 10/8/2015 2:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 08 October 2015 14:01:12 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> >> On Thu, 2015-10-08 at 03:10 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings all;
> >>>
> >>> I had one of those "colonoscopy" cameras you could buy on ebay for
> >>> about $22 USD on my toy mill, and had it pretty well calibrated
> >>> but hadn't put it to any real use as yet when I knocked it loose
> >>> with an errant hold down bolt on that furniture joint carving jig.
> >>>  I'd been meaning to restore it as it also came loose in its teeny
> >>> little tubular housing and would need so rtv to  glue it back into
> >>> the tubing so the cable couldn't pull it out the rear if the cable
> >>> hung up.  But making an alignable mounting was also a PITA, so its
> >>> been waiting for me to find a round tuit.
> >>
> >> I have attempted to use a webcam with camview, I was only able to
> >> display the camera image in a separate window. No way to configure
> >> it to display camera image within a Gmoccapy TAB.
> >
> > camview seems to be made to be a 3rd window tab in the center,
> > backplot window of axis.  For that, camview works well albeit slow. 
> > I'll go plug one into tne toy mill which is still configured for the
> > just barely working teeny one I started with,  BRB.
> >
> > Humm, I uncommented the lines in the .ini file that did make it
> > work, without unplugging the damaged camera that was still making
> > normal video of the stuff on the table behind the keyboard, but
> > something in the system is now killing it and linuxcnc won't start.
> >
> > Perhaps its time to go get the latest from Nic's .ru site?
> > There's probably been a gigabyte of updates to both LCNC and the
> > system since I last had it running.  The web page download is
> > however 3 years old, so maybe not.  Maybe Nic doesn't its died?
> >
> > And I am likely a good 90-120 days with the next project here before
> > I can come back to this.  There is about $1000 worth of Mahogany in
> > the way in the garage right now that needs to be carved up & made
> > into 3 more cedar lined blanket chests.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Gene,
>
> How about a pic of one of those blanket chests?
>
> Jim

I did, but the server is holding it for the moderator to clear as its not 
quite 20k over the 360k size limit allowed.  I smunched it down to a 20% 
quality jpg, because I could see jpg'ing artifacts if I went any lower.

I'll try doing some cropping of some of the background in gimp.  Or is 
there now a more compact image compression format?  Cropping an image in 
gimp is the most frustrating thing I have ever tried, I have to ask for 
help on the gimp-users list every time, so it still has white borders. 
Damit, a crop should remove what you don't want, not fill it with white.

Anyway, new version 2 attached, smunched enough that jpg is showing some 
artifacts.



Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Viesturs Lācis]

2015-10-09 16:50 GMT+03:00 Jim Craig :
> Very nice! I like the Joinery.

Oh yes, that chest looks really awesome, Gene! Corner joints are beautiful!

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 09 October 2015 09:50:36 Jim Craig wrote:

> On 10/9/2015 8:30 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 08 October 2015 16:04:42 Jim Craig wrote:
> >> Gene,
> >>
> >> How about a pic of one of those blanket chests?
> >>
> >> Jim
> >
> > I did, but the server is holding it for the moderator to clear as
> > its not quite 20k over the 360k size limit allowed.  I smunched it
> > down to a 20% quality jpg, because I could see jpg'ing artifacts if
> > I went any lower.
> >
> > I'll try doing some cropping of some of the background in gimp.  Or
> > is there now a more compact image compression format?  Cropping an
> > image in gimp is the most frustrating thing I have ever tried, I
> > have to ask for help on the gimp-users list every time, so it still
> > has white borders. Damit, a crop should remove what you don't want,
> > not fill it with white.
> >
> > Anyway, new version 2 attached, smunched enough that jpg is showing
> > some artifacts.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Very nice! I like the Joinery. What are you using for the square pins
> in the joint? I like some good woodworking.

Gabon ebony fitted plugs, I have a routine that drills the hole thru the 
finger for an assembly screw, a 2" long SS for century plus longevity, 
with a round pocket for the screw head, and a square pocket above that 
about 3/32" deep with the 1/16 radius corners a 1/8" mill leaves when 
driven in a square pattern.  And I make the ebony plugs, including the 
rounded tops, in another jig after they've been cut out of a thin sheet 
of ebony by another routine.  The plugs get their sides tapered a few 
degrees against a disk sander, a coat of Elmers finest on the bottoms 
and driven into the recess with a soft faced dead blow hammer.

The longer bits of ebony in the lid with its breadboard ends is actually 
more trouble than these are.  Breadboard ends aligned with white ash 
bits & pieces in deep grooves routed in both pieces. The only place its 
truly glued & screwed solidly is at the center where in this case, since 
the top has an edge joint there, a screw into each board on both sides 
of the joint.  All the other offcenter is longer because its covering a 
slot the screw cam move in with the seasonal changes in humidity.   The 
long bit in the corners are only glued into the slots in lid board, and 
can move freely in the breadboard ends as the seasons come and go.  The 
boards will grown and shrink in width, but generally not length.

All the edge joints are full of bisquits, should stay together for a few 
decades (I hope) But the stock I have laying on the floor now is 1x12, 
so the only edge joint in the next 3 I make will be at the lengthwise 
centerline of the lid.  I could only locate 1x6's for the raw material 
the first one you see was made from. Changed vendors, now have 1x12 
stock.

But that wider stock has me looking at a new saw to replace my 12" Dewalt 
miter/chopper.  Bosche is out with a whole new design that does away 
with the sideways slop on the usual sliders. I played with the displayed 
one at Home Depot 2 weeks ago, and that suspension system is easily 10x 
more rigid against any side forces applied than any other slider on the 
shelf.  And my 12" chopper can't cut a full 12" width.  Its also about 
$200 more than I paid for the Dewalt miter/chopper 6 or 7 years ago.  
The card has enough surplus it won't be noticed except by the missus 
when I unload it. :(

Those hinges are Rocklers, very high friction, used so that little 
fingers clamboring for a grip to stand up, will not be smashed by a 
falling lid.  It takes about a 20 lb lift to raise the lid to where you 
see it in the pix. Nothing else is holding it up.

Pricy too.  The strip under them at the rear is screwed, glued and pegged 
into the board below it about every 3 or 4 inches as that strip in 
addition to holding the torque of the hinges, also projects inward and 
has a 1/4" wide groove in the bottom to retain the cedar lining.  Theres 
a groove routed in the base panel to hold the end of the cedar "planks", 
closet liner from Lowes.  That groove, with the cedar in it, was 
actually used to align the box when I set it on the base, forcing 
everything to be as square as the mahogany faced bottom plywood panel 
is.

If I think about it in time, and I have enough ebony buttons left, (a 
2x2x12" piece of that was a hair shy of $70 dropped on my front deck) I 
may use them in the front strip to hide the well countersunk screws.  
The front and end retainer strips are not glued, a paen to making some 
of the cedar removable for a light sanding to remove the resin it exudes 
which seals it up and the cedar odor goes away. A light sanding to 
remove that resin restores the cedar odor for a few years. Its just part 
of cedar maintenance.  If your house has cedar lined closets, that needs 
to be done to them on about the same schedule.  IOW If you can't smell 
it, sand it. About 150 grit, sand gently, just hard enough to make some 
resin 

Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 09 October 2015 11:12:13 Viesturs Lācis wrote:

> 2015-10-09 16:50 GMT+03:00 Jim Craig :
> > Very nice! I like the Joinery.
>
> Oh yes, that chest looks really awesome, Gene! Corner joints are
> beautiful!
>
> Viesturs
>
I do thumbhole gunstocks for myself too. But I don't advertise as that 
attracts the unsavory types.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I had one of those "colonoscopy" cameras you could buy on ebay for about 
$22 USD on my toy mill, and had it pretty well calibrated but hadn't put 
it to any real use as yet when I knocked it loose with an errant hold 
down bolt on that furniture joint carving jig.  I'd been meaning to 
restore it as it also came loose in its teeny little tubular housing and 
would need so rtv to  glue it back into the tubing so the cable couldn't 
pull it out the rear if the cable hung up.  But making an alignable 
mounting was also a PITA, so its been waiting for me to find a round 
tuit.

But I also had the interest in the back of my mind, so when some 
supposedly hidef webcams showed up on ebay for <$9 USD, I just had to 
see if it was a any good.  Having been caught, unable to buy spares when 
this one was damaged, I thought I'd buy one for each machine and a 
spare, so I bought 4 of them.  They arrived yesterday, and I found that 
cheese no longer runs on this machine, which is wheezy with TDE 
replacing KDE.  TDE is a fork of KDE at about the 3.5 level, and 
improvements have conentrated on bug fixing and stability, which they 
are doing a decent job of, I am not bleeding from all the paper cuts the 
new KDE4 or 5 is inflicting on its users.

Anyway, installing  cheese pulled in about 50 more dep files totalling 25 
megabytes, and it still segfaults.  But I took the camera out and 
plugged it into the Dell 745, installed cheese there and it works quite 
well, so I believe it will work with camview and friends too.

Its about a fat inch in diameter & 2" long, and the 640x480 image cheese 
can show me is lots closer to realtime than the older camera ever was.  
Color too is excellent, amazing for a camera that sold for less than 8 
dollars with free shipping.  But I see its up to $8.88 in the two weeks 
since I bought these. 10% discount for 2 or more. That would make it 
$31.96 USD, which is what I paid for 4 of them.



Get them while they last folks.

When I get the rest of the mills problems under control, that might be 
the next project as its small enough I can hide it inside the hollow 
bottom of the head casting of this GO704.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Jerry Scharf]

Gene,

What's the depth of field with those?

I bought one of the $20 amazon "endoscopes". I was really disappointed in
the depth of field. I have played with real endoscopes, and the amazing
thing about them is their depth of field is from .5" to infinity. This one
had a focal distance of about 4 inches and less than 6 inches of good depth
of field.

jerry


On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:10 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I had one of those "colonoscopy" cameras you could buy on ebay for about
> $22 USD on my toy mill, and had it pretty well calibrated but hadn't put
> it to any real use as yet when I knocked it loose with an errant hold
> down bolt on that furniture joint carving jig.  I'd been meaning to
> restore it as it also came loose in its teeny little tubular housing and
> would need so rtv to  glue it back into the tubing so the cable couldn't
> pull it out the rear if the cable hung up.  But making an alignable
> mounting was also a PITA, so its been waiting for me to find a round
> tuit.
>
> But I also had the interest in the back of my mind, so when some
> supposedly hidef webcams showed up on ebay for <$9 USD, I just had to
> see if it was a any good.  Having been caught, unable to buy spares when
> this one was damaged, I thought I'd buy one for each machine and a
> spare, so I bought 4 of them.  They arrived yesterday, and I found that
> cheese no longer runs on this machine, which is wheezy with TDE
> replacing KDE.  TDE is a fork of KDE at about the 3.5 level, and
> improvements have conentrated on bug fixing and stability, which they
> are doing a decent job of, I am not bleeding from all the paper cuts the
> new KDE4 or 5 is inflicting on its users.
>
> Anyway, installing  cheese pulled in about 50 more dep files totalling 25
> megabytes, and it still segfaults.  But I took the camera out and
> plugged it into the Dell 745, installed cheese there and it works quite
> well, so I believe it will work with camview and friends too.
>
> Its about a fat inch in diameter & 2" long, and the 640x480 image cheese
> can show me is lots closer to realtime than the older camera ever was.
> Color too is excellent, amazing for a camera that sold for less than 8
> dollars with free shipping.  But I see its up to $8.88 in the two weeks
> since I bought these. 10% discount for 2 or more. That would make it
> $31.96 USD, which is what I paid for 4 of them.
>
> <
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-12-Megapixel-HD-Camera-Web-Cam-360-MIC-Clip-on-for-Skype-Computer-Laptop-PC-/291379169306
> ?>
>
> Get them while they last folks.
>
> When I get the rest of the mills problems under control, that might be
> the next project as its small enough I can hide it inside the hollow
> bottom of the head casting of this GO704.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 
Jerry Scharf
FINsix IT
650.285.6361 w
650.279.7017 m
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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 08 October 2015 10:25:25 Jerry Scharf wrote:

> Gene,
>
> What's the depth of field with those?
>
> I bought one of the $20 amazon "endoscopes". I was really disappointed
> in the depth of field. I have played with real endoscopes, and the
> amazing thing about them is their depth of field is from .5" to
> infinity. This one had a focal distance of about 4 inches and less
> than 6 inches of good depth of field.
>
> jerry

Up close, it will be as fussy as the f stop would suggest.  But its 
adjustable, and I for one would like to be able to work at a known 
scale, so I would focus it there.

It can focus as close as flush with the front of the lens shroud or 
closer if you can get light to it.

> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:10 AM, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I had one of those "colonoscopy" cameras you could buy on ebay for
> > about $22 USD on my toy mill, and had it pretty well calibrated but
> > hadn't put it to any real use as yet when I knocked it loose with an
> > errant hold down bolt on that furniture joint carving jig.  I'd been
> > meaning to restore it as it also came loose in its teeny little
> > tubular housing and would need so rtv to  glue it back into the
> > tubing so the cable couldn't pull it out the rear if the cable hung
> > up.  But making an alignable mounting was also a PITA, so its been
> > waiting for me to find a round tuit.
> >
> > But I also had the interest in the back of my mind, so when some
> > supposedly hidef webcams showed up on ebay for <$9 USD, I just had
> > to see if it was a any good.  Having been caught, unable to buy
> > spares when this one was damaged, I thought I'd buy one for each
> > machine and a spare, so I bought 4 of them.  They arrived yesterday,
> > and I found that cheese no longer runs on this machine, which is
> > wheezy with TDE replacing KDE.  TDE is a fork of KDE at about the
> > 3.5 level, and improvements have conentrated on bug fixing and
> > stability, which they are doing a decent job of, I am not bleeding
> > from all the paper cuts the new KDE4 or 5 is inflicting on its
> > users.
> >
> > Anyway, installing  cheese pulled in about 50 more dep files
> > totalling 25 megabytes, and it still segfaults.  But I took the
> > camera out and plugged it into the Dell 745, installed cheese there
> > and it works quite well, so I believe it will work with camview and
> > friends too.
> >
> > Its about a fat inch in diameter & 2" long, and the 640x480 image
> > cheese can show me is lots closer to realtime than the older camera
> > ever was. Color too is excellent, amazing for a camera that sold for
> > less than 8 dollars with free shipping.  But I see its up to $8.88
> > in the two weeks since I bought these. 10% discount for 2 or more.
> > That would make it $31.96 USD, which is what I paid for 4 of them.
> >
> > <
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-12-Megapixel-HD-Camera-Web-Cam-360-MIC-C
> >lip-on-for-Skype-Computer-Laptop-PC-/291379169306 ?>
> >
> > Get them while they last folks.
> >
> > When I get the rest of the mills problems under control, that might
> > be the next project as its small enough I can hide it inside the
> > hollow bottom of the head casting of this GO704.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > 
> >-- ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Thu, 2015-10-08 at 03:10 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> I had one of those "colonoscopy" cameras you could buy on ebay for about 
> $22 USD on my toy mill, and had it pretty well calibrated but hadn't put 
> it to any real use as yet when I knocked it loose with an errant hold 
> down bolt on that furniture joint carving jig.  I'd been meaning to 
> restore it as it also came loose in its teeny little tubular housing and 
> would need so rtv to  glue it back into the tubing so the cable couldn't 
> pull it out the rear if the cable hung up.  But making an alignable 
> mounting was also a PITA, so its been waiting for me to find a round 
> tuit.

I have attempted to use a webcam with camview, I was only able to
display the camera image in a separate window. No way to configure it to
display camera image within a Gmoccapy TAB.




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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 08 October 2015 14:01:12 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

> On Thu, 2015-10-08 at 03:10 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I had one of those "colonoscopy" cameras you could buy on ebay for
> > about $22 USD on my toy mill, and had it pretty well calibrated but
> > hadn't put it to any real use as yet when I knocked it loose with an
> > errant hold down bolt on that furniture joint carving jig.  I'd been
> > meaning to restore it as it also came loose in its teeny little
> > tubular housing and would need so rtv to  glue it back into the
> > tubing so the cable couldn't pull it out the rear if the cable hung
> > up.  But making an alignable mounting was also a PITA, so its been
> > waiting for me to find a round tuit.
>
> I have attempted to use a webcam with camview, I was only able to
> display the camera image in a separate window. No way to configure it
> to display camera image within a Gmoccapy TAB.
>
camview seems to be made to be a 3rd window tab in the center, backplot 
window of axis.  For that, camview works well albeit slow.  I'll go plug 
one into tne toy mill which is still configured for the just barely 
working teeny one I started with,  BRB.

Humm, I uncommented the lines in the .ini file that did make it work, 
without unplugging the damaged camera that was still making normal video 
of the stuff on the table behind the keyboard, but something in the 
system is now killing it and linuxcnc won't start.

Perhaps its time to go get the latest from Nic's .ru site?
There's probably been a gigabyte of updates to both LCNC and the system 
since I last had it running.  The web page download is however 3 years 
old, so maybe not.  Maybe Nic doesn't its died? 

And I am likely a good 90-120 days with the next project here before I 
can come back to this.  There is about $1000 worth of Mahogany in the 
way in the garage right now that needs to be carved up & made into 3 
more cedar lined blanket chests.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine vision cameras for use with camview, align and friends

[Jim Craig]

On 10/8/2015 2:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 08 October 2015 14:01:12 Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2015-10-08 at 03:10 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> Greetings all;
>>>
>>> I had one of those "colonoscopy" cameras you could buy on ebay for
>>> about $22 USD on my toy mill, and had it pretty well calibrated but
>>> hadn't put it to any real use as yet when I knocked it loose with an
>>> errant hold down bolt on that furniture joint carving jig.  I'd been
>>> meaning to restore it as it also came loose in its teeny little
>>> tubular housing and would need so rtv to  glue it back into the
>>> tubing so the cable couldn't pull it out the rear if the cable hung
>>> up.  But making an alignable mounting was also a PITA, so its been
>>> waiting for me to find a round tuit.
>> I have attempted to use a webcam with camview, I was only able to
>> display the camera image in a separate window. No way to configure it
>> to display camera image within a Gmoccapy TAB.
>>
> camview seems to be made to be a 3rd window tab in the center, backplot
> window of axis.  For that, camview works well albeit slow.  I'll go plug
> one into tne toy mill which is still configured for the just barely
> working teeny one I started with,  BRB.
>
> Humm, I uncommented the lines in the .ini file that did make it work,
> without unplugging the damaged camera that was still making normal video
> of the stuff on the table behind the keyboard, but something in the
> system is now killing it and linuxcnc won't start.
>
> Perhaps its time to go get the latest from Nic's .ru site?
> There's probably been a gigabyte of updates to both LCNC and the system
> since I last had it running.  The web page download is however 3 years
> old, so maybe not.  Maybe Nic doesn't its died?
>
> And I am likely a good 90-120 days with the next project here before I
> can come back to this.  There is about $1000 worth of Mahogany in the
> way in the garage right now that needs to be carved up & made into 3
> more cedar lined blanket chests.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
Gene,

How about a pic of one of those blanket chests?

Jim


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[craig]

On 8/19/2014 8:28 PM, dave wrote:
 On Mon, 2014-08-18 at 13:46 -0400, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling 
 the pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor.

Another approach:

1.   Invert them either by the people placing upside down on a mesh 
conveyor belt.  Or turn them over by another other method (Not hard with 
conveors).
2.  Use strong acoustic signal to shake out dust  chips. Think large 
base speaker. (possibly with some acoustic isolation).
  You might want to place a screen over them to prevent them moving to far .

A little experimentation may be needed to determine what frequency or 
combination of frequencies work the best and require the least energy.

Craig






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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Charles Buckley]

I saw a couple projects recently that might be of interest..

https://hackaday.io/project/1313-OpenMV

and

http://hci.rwth-aachen.de/fabscan



On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 7:14 AM, craig cr...@facework.com wrote:

 On 8/19/2014 8:28 PM, dave wrote:
  On Mon, 2014-08-18 at 13:46 -0400, Todd Zuercher wrote:
  I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?
 
  A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed
 randomly on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in
 them. I would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from
 milling the pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these
 pockets, position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short
 air blast as they are carried down the conveyor.
 
 Another approach:

 1.   Invert them either by the people placing upside down on a mesh
 conveyor belt.  Or turn them over by another other method (Not hard with
 conveors).
 2.  Use strong acoustic signal to shake out dust  chips. Think large
 base speaker. (possibly with some acoustic isolation).
   You might want to place a screen over them to prevent them moving to far
 .

 A little experimentation may be needed to determine what frequency or
 combination of frequencies work the best and require the least energy.

 Craig







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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Mark Wendt]

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 4:04 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
wrote:

 2014-08-18 22:47 GMT+03:00 Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za:
  Will you be willing to share the script as it could be useful for a pick
  and place machine that I am looking at doing.

 I have 2 files - one is .cpp file (no idea, what it is), the other
 seems to be the script itself. AFAIK that guy was using Eclipse to
 create all that stuff.
 I could email them to you, but then I would appreciate, if you look at
 it, improve it and then share again.

 Viesturs


Viesturs,

Are you sure the files are related?  A file with a .cpp extension is
usually a Windows C++ source code file.  Not usually terribly compatible
with a *nix script file.  Perhaps your intern was using some of the coding
from the C++ code to come up with ideas for his/her script?

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Todd Zuercher]

This is what we are trying now.  And it isn't quite working.  To get the 
pockets clean pressures on the air curtain have to be so high that we have to 
have roller hold downs on the pieces to keep them from flying off the table.  
It also requires a huge amount of air to cover a 5ft wide conveyor.  The 
thought was one short blast directed only where needed would only require a 
relatively small amount of air, the expelled dust would be more easily 
contained (smaller volume of air scattering it.) and remove the need for the 
roller hold downs.


- Original Message -
From: Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 2:45:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

Why bother with detecting the pockets. Use a curtain of nozzles that 
will blow in various directions. Maybe repeated once or twice and then 
blow the lot clean.
A number of swirling nozzle will also work.

On 2014-08-18 19:46, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling the 
 pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor.


-- 

Regards /Groete

Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 743 6064
QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Todd Zuercher]

This sounds like the most promising idea.  

Yes there is vacuum for dust collection.



- Original Message -
From: Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 8:22:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

On 8/18/2014 12:05 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

 Vision systems can be very light sensitive, which is sometimes not
 immediately obvious.  Cast a shadow across the parts and the vision
 system may get lost.   Find someone who does a lot of vision and you
 will find that they know a lot about lighting and light sheilding.
 Vision works best in a controlled light environment.

Use a laser either scanned across at high speed (something like a 
LaserJet II or III scanner) or expanded to a line with a spreader prism. 
Angle the laser with or against the conveyor travel so the pockets 
distort it from a straight line.

Have the vision system look for distortions of a length range that 
corresponds to the pocket size, then move the nozzle to there (with 
adjustments for time delay of the move + belt speed) and cut loose with 
a burst of air.

What about where the dust is going? Is there a vacuum system?


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[andy pugh]

On 19 August 2014 15:02, Todd  Zuercher
zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 This is what we are trying now.  And it isn't quite working.  To get the 
 pockets clean pressures on the air curtain have to be so high that we have to 
 have roller hold downs on the pieces to keep them from flying off the table.  
 It also requires a huge amount of air to cover a 5ft wide conveyor

Machine Vision coupled with an array of jets, only actuating those
required, might be the way to go.

When a pocket is identified it is presumably a known time delay until
that pocket is under a calculable jet position.

The same approach might work with a movable single jet, but that might
not work if more than one pocket can be in  a line across the
conveyor.

Interfacing to LinuxCNC shouldn't be too hard, either pass movement
commands to motion from Python, or ignore motion altogether and pass
locations to a Limit3 comp which drives a stepgen / PID  in a HAL-only
config.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Todd Zuercher]

The conveyor is slow.  I thought of multiple jets (and this might still be the 
best way) my only problem is that would be an awful lot of jets and the 
solenoids to actuate them to cover the conveyor width.

I think one or a small number of mobile jets will be best.

calculating the delay position seems a trivial task.  I assumed the vision 
would be several feet away from the actual air jet.

The problem of multiple simultaneous pockets to be cleaned, I may be best 
addressed by telling the humans loading the conveyor to avoid it.

- Original Message -
From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:16:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

On 19 August 2014 15:02, Todd  Zuercher
zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 This is what we are trying now.  And it isn't quite working.  To get the 
 pockets clean pressures on the air curtain have to be so high that we have to 
 have roller hold downs on the pieces to keep them from flying off the table.  
 It also requires a huge amount of air to cover a 5ft wide conveyor

Machine Vision coupled with an array of jets, only actuating those
required, might be the way to go.

When a pocket is identified it is presumably a known time delay until
that pocket is under a calculable jet position.

The same approach might work with a movable single jet, but that might
not work if more than one pocket can be in  a line across the
conveyor.

Interfacing to LinuxCNC shouldn't be too hard, either pass movement
commands to motion from Python, or ignore motion altogether and pass
locations to a Limit3 comp which drives a stepgen / PID  in a HAL-only
config.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[andy pugh]

On 19 August 2014 15:35, Todd  Zuercher
zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 The problem of multiple simultaneous pockets to be cleaned, I may be best 
 addressed by telling the humans loading the conveyor to avoid it.

Why not give the humans a vacuum nozzle?

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Dave Cole]

On 8/19/2014 10:38 AM, andy pugh wrote:
 On 19 August 2014 15:35, Todd  Zuercher
 zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 The problem of multiple simultaneous pockets to be cleaned, I may be best 
 addressed by telling the humans loading the conveyor to avoid it.
 Why not give the humans a vacuum nozzle?


Why not remove the dust when you make the pocket?   Put an air jet near 
the router tip to blow it out.  You probably already have a vacuum 
collection system on the router/machine?

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 18 Aug 2014, at 19:42, David Armstrong wrote:

 a vacuum would be far better and safer , instead of blowing potential chips
 into someones eyes etc
 no matter how good you are at trying to keep small debris in check ,
 particles always get through .
 

I agree. I have seen several very nice cameras (and rather expensive)  
destroyed by dust and small particles being blown into the autofocus mechanism. 

Marcus

 viesturs
 let me know what you need from opencv into linuxcnc etc
 
 Dave
 
 
 On 18 August 2014 19:16, TJoseph Powderly tjt...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 maybe vacuum is better
 ( dont blow chips into already cleaned pocket)
 maybe mechanical fingers could detect pockets simply
 imagine a row across conveyer of pivoting fingers drooping down to belt
 as wood passes it would raise lever finger to hi posn
 if it returned NOT to conveyer level , you got a pocket
 might be able to trigger multiple vacuums at once,
 a vacuum cleaner brush type nozzle behind each finger sensor
 _ _ _ _ _ _
 \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \   `  `  `   \ \ \
 x x x x x x x x x x x x x O  O  O x x x x x x
 
 --POCKET 
 
 fwiw
 tomp
 tjtr33
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Marcus Bowman]

On 19 Aug 2014, at 01:14, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

 On 8/18/2014 11:46 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?
 
 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling 
 the pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor.
 
 Here's one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9oeOYMRvuQ
 

In the summer of 1970 I had a job in a local bakery factory. On a Saturday 
morning we had to bake pancakes, scones and soda scones on a very long hot 
plate. It was a bit like the video only the operator had to run up and down 
beside the plate and manipulate the baking items as fast as the video shows the 
robot doing the job. In fact, if we went a bit faster we could add a few extra 
scones onto the line. At the end of a very hard shift, we sat and ate the extra 
items. Very fine indeed.
I wouldn't have liked to do this as a job for all my working life, but I did 
that, and other jobs like it, for 3 months, and it was great fun. I make 2.5 
million bread rolls that summer without any automation. Good for the hand-eye 
co-ordination. Not bad wages either. A few years later, the factory was bought 
over and gutted, then the automatic machines were brought in for making bread 
and cakes. Not much scope for adding extras, though.

Marcus

 And another one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8unkXTtfEBQ
 
 Can't beat an inverted delta or quad arm for speed. Simple linkages, 
 directly connected to the three or four motor shafts so there's no 
 gears, belts or screws to wear.
 
 Should be possible to do it with open source software (Open CV for the 
 video in) and kinematics to operate this kind of robot in a 2D plane 
 like a 2 axis gantry.
 
 Add a vacuum attachment with rotation capability and it could organize 
 the parts as it cleans them.
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 8/19/2014 8:35 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 The conveyor is slow.  I thought of multiple jets (and this might still be 
 the best way) my only problem is that would be an awful lot of jets and the 
 solenoids to actuate them to cover the conveyor width.

 I think one or a small number of mobile jets will be best.

 calculating the delay position seems a trivial task.  I assumed the vision 
 would be several feet away from the actual air jet.

 The problem of multiple simultaneous pockets to be cleaned, I may be best 
 addressed by telling the humans loading the conveyor to avoid it.

What about a flipper device to turn the pieces pocket side down onto an 
open mesh belt, perhaps with a vibrator to knock the sawdust loose? Are 
the pieces picked off the belt by people or machinery? If it's people 
then there shouldn't be a need to flip the pieces back over.


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[RogerN]

-Original Message- 
From: Todd Zuercher
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 12:46 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed 
randomly on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in 
them. I would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from 
 milling the pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these 
pockets, position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short 
air blast as they are carried down the conveyor.

-- 



Todd Zuercher
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com


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I don't know much about the PC base software but I used to work as a machine 
vision system integrator around 15 years ago.  For detecting pockets you can 
use a structured lighting like light from an angle to make shadows show up 
where the pockets are.  Another idea is to use a laser line generator at an 
angle, the line will shift to different positions at different heights 
allowing you to detect pockets and ignore the bottom of the belt.  Also, the 
laser shows up bright and the ambient lights don't effect it as much. 
Camera's are sensitive to IR light and many have a filter to reduce the IR 
sensitivity.  I used to take the filters out and supply IR light sources, 
this makes the camera see the IR light source I provided more than the 
inconsistent ambient light.

Another idea is to have a sheet up to block light and have a light on the 
other side at an angle.  This is like a light shining under a door, the 
pockets would allow light in a region lower than the top of the parts but 
above the conveyor.  Same idea as the laser line but without using the 
laser.

Roger Neal


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[dave]

On Mon, 2014-08-18 at 13:46 -0400, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions? 
 
 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling the 
 pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor. 
 


A different approach. run the blocks off the conveyor into a drum ,
eg. like a tumbler/polisher and then use decent velocity air thru the
drum to move the dust. Turbulence can do a lot to remove particles. 

Dave


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[Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Todd Zuercher]

I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions? 

A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly on 
a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I would 
like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling the 
pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, position 
an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast as they are 
carried down the conveyor. 

-- 

 

Todd Zuercher 
mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com 

 
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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[andy pugh]

On 18 August 2014 18:46, Todd  Zuercher
zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:

  How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, position an 
 air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast as they are 
 carried down the conveyor.

I think that would strongly depend on the optical contrast of the pockets.

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Dave Caroline]

I imagine you can get co-ordinates from something like http://opencv.org/
and then move the nozzle/s as required

Dave Caroline

On 18/08/2014, Todd  Zuercher
zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling
 the pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets,
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast
 as they are carried down the conveyor.

 --

 

 Todd Zuercher
 mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com

 
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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Viesturs Lācis]

2014-08-18 20:56 GMT+03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
 On 18 August 2014 18:46, Todd  Zuercher
 zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:

  How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, position an 
 air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast as they are 
 carried down the conveyor.

 I think that would strongly depend on the optical contrast of the pockets.


Put a light source on the side, camera on top, there should be shades
[not only] in pockets.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Dave Cole]

Vision systems can be very light sensitive, which is sometimes not 
immediately obvious.  Cast a shadow across the parts and the vision 
system may get lost.   Find someone who does a lot of vision and you 
will find that they know a lot about lighting and light sheilding.  
Vision works best in a controlled light environment.

It might be easier to orient the wood pieces so they are less than some 
width - say 8 or 12 and they travel in a line.  Put air nozzles over 
the width then then turn the air on and off when wood is present below 
the jets.A high pressure blower would probably be more energy 
efficient than using 90 psi compressed air.

The other thing.. blowing dust and vision might not be all that 
compatible.

Dave


On 8/18/2014 1:46 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling the 
 pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor.


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[John Thornton]

We use cameras to check things on production lines, I'd assume from that 
experience you would need to traverse the conveyer and when a target is 
found blast some air. Is this just to save some air vs an air curtain?

JT

On 8/18/2014 12:46 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling the 
 pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor.



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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Dave Caroline]

If you know the outer shapes you can then know where the pockets are,
another way if they are likely to be low contrast/full of dust.

Dave Caroline

On 18/08/2014, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:
 2014-08-18 20:56 GMT+03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com:
 On 18 August 2014 18:46, Todd  Zuercher
 zuerc...@embarqmail.com wrote:

  How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, position
 an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast as
 they are carried down the conveyor.

 I think that would strongly depend on the optical contrast of the
 pockets.


 Put a light source on the side, camera on top, there should be shades
 [not only] in pockets.

 Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Viesturs Lācis]

2014-08-18 20:59 GMT+03:00 Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com:
 I imagine you can get co-ordinates from something like http://opencv.org/
 and then move the nozzle/s as required


Last year I had an intern that created a script, that used opencv to
recognize a part and return its coordinates and orientation angle.

The problem that I could not solve was feeding these coordinates to
LinuxCNC. It would require some work on trajectory planner.

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[TJoseph Powderly]

maybe vacuum is better
( dont blow chips into already cleaned pocket)
maybe mechanical fingers could detect pockets simply
imagine a row across conveyer of pivoting fingers drooping down to belt
as wood passes it would raise lever finger to hi posn
if it returned NOT to conveyer level , you got a pocket
might be able to trigger multiple vacuums at once,
a vacuum cleaner brush type nozzle behind each finger sensor
 _ _ _ _ _ _
\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \   `  `  `   \ \ \
x x x x x x x x x x x x x O  O  O x x x x x x

--POCKET 

fwiw
tomp
tjtr33


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[David Armstrong]

a vacuum would be far better and safer , instead of blowing potential chips
into someones eyes etc
no matter how good you are at trying to keep small debris in check ,
particles always get through .

viesturs
let me know what you need from opencv into linuxcnc etc

Dave


On 18 August 2014 19:16, TJoseph Powderly tjt...@gmail.com wrote:

 maybe vacuum is better
 ( dont blow chips into already cleaned pocket)
 maybe mechanical fingers could detect pockets simply
 imagine a row across conveyer of pivoting fingers drooping down to belt
 as wood passes it would raise lever finger to hi posn
 if it returned NOT to conveyer level , you got a pocket
 might be able to trigger multiple vacuums at once,
 a vacuum cleaner brush type nozzle behind each finger sensor
  _ _ _ _ _ _
 \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \   `  `  `   \ \ \
 x x x x x x x x x x x x x O  O  O x x x x x x

 --POCKET 

 fwiw
 tomp
 tjtr33



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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Marius Liebenberg]

Why bother with detecting the pockets. Use a curtain of nozzles that 
will blow in various directions. Maybe repeated once or twice and then 
blow the lot clean.
A number of swirling nozzle will also work.

On 2014-08-18 19:46, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling the 
 pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor.


-- 

Regards /Groete

Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 743 6064
QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Dave Caroline]

Tip them pocket down and vibrate them, get the dust to fall out (use a
roller conveyor)

Dave

On 18/08/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:
 Why bother with detecting the pockets. Use a curtain of nozzles that
 will blow in various directions. Maybe repeated once or twice and then
 blow the lot clean.
 A number of swirling nozzle will also work.

 On 2014-08-18 19:46, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed
 randomly on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in
 them. I would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from
 milling the pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these
 pockets, position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a
 short air blast as they are carried down the conveyor.


 --

 Regards /Groete

 Marius D. Liebenberg
 +27 82 698 3251
 +27 12 743 6064
 QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Viesturs Lācis]

2014-08-18 21:42 GMT+03:00 David Armstrong cncbas...@gmail.com:
 let me know what you need from opencv into linuxcnc etc

Nothing specific, only a concept - I was thinking about automation of
put a workpiece in cnc lathe, take finished part out of cnc lathe and
repeat process. If there is a box with unaligned workpieces, there
has to be some part recognition. The guy wrote a script that
recognized a specific part, returned coordinates of its main bore and
returned angle of part's orientation (it was rectangular, to make the
task more challenging).
But then I got stuck of coming up with way of how would
LinuxCNC-controlled manipulator trigger the script to find a part and
then feed back the coordinates, so that manipulator can take it.

This concept is already used in manufacturing, so I was thinking
about building a demo setup in my workshop for marketing purposes.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Marius Liebenberg]

Will you be willing to share the script as it could be useful for a pick 
and place machine that I am looking at doing.
There are a number of people that has done just that what you are 
talking about for pick and place machines but they are mostly not open 
source sadly.


On 2014-08-18 21:35, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2014-08-18 21:42 GMT+03:00 David Armstrong cncbas...@gmail.com:
 let me know what you need from opencv into linuxcnc etc
 Nothing specific, only a concept - I was thinking about automation of
 put a workpiece in cnc lathe, take finished part out of cnc lathe and
 repeat process. If there is a box with unaligned workpieces, there
 has to be some part recognition. The guy wrote a script that
 recognized a specific part, returned coordinates of its main bore and
 returned angle of part's orientation (it was rectangular, to make the
 task more challenging).
 But then I got stuck of coming up with way of how would
 LinuxCNC-controlled manipulator trigger the script to find a part and
 then feed back the coordinates, so that manipulator can take it.

 This concept is already used in manufacturing, so I was thinking
 about building a demo setup in my workshop for marketing purposes.

 Viesturs

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Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 743 6064
QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Viesturs Lācis]

2014-08-18 22:47 GMT+03:00 Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za:
 Will you be willing to share the script as it could be useful for a pick
 and place machine that I am looking at doing.

I have 2 files - one is .cpp file (no idea, what it is), the other
seems to be the script itself. AFAIK that guy was using Eclipse to
create all that stuff.
I could email them to you, but then I would appreciate, if you look at
it, improve it and then share again.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Marius Liebenberg]

Sure I will look at them to see what we can make of it.

On 2014-08-18 22:04, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2014-08-18 22:47 GMT+03:00 Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za:
 Will you be willing to share the script as it could be useful for a pick
 and place machine that I am looking at doing.
 I have 2 files - one is .cpp file (no idea, what it is), the other
 seems to be the script itself. AFAIK that guy was using Eclipse to
 create all that stuff.
 I could email them to you, but then I would appreciate, if you look at
 it, improve it and then share again.

 Viesturs

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Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 743 6064
QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 8/18/2014 11:46 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
 I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?

 A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed randomly 
 on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled in them. I 
 would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left from milling the 
 pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of these pockets, 
 position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a short air blast 
 as they are carried down the conveyor.

Here's one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9oeOYMRvuQ

And another one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8unkXTtfEBQ

Can't beat an inverted delta or quad arm for speed. Simple linkages, 
directly connected to the three or four motor shafts so there's no 
gears, belts or screws to wear.

Should be possible to do it with open source software (Open CV for the 
video in) and kinematics to operate this kind of robot in a 2D plane 
like a 2 axis gantry.

Add a vacuum attachment with rotation capability and it could organize 
the parts as it cleans them.


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 8/18/2014 12:05 PM, Dave Cole wrote:

 Vision systems can be very light sensitive, which is sometimes not
 immediately obvious.  Cast a shadow across the parts and the vision
 system may get lost.   Find someone who does a lot of vision and you
 will find that they know a lot about lighting and light sheilding.
 Vision works best in a controlled light environment.

Use a laser either scanned across at high speed (something like a 
LaserJet II or III scanner) or expanded to a line with a spreader prism. 
Angle the laser with or against the conveyor travel so the pockets 
distort it from a straight line.

Have the vision system look for distortions of a length range that 
corresponds to the pocket size, then move the nozzle to there (with 
adjustments for time delay of the move + belt speed) and cut loose with 
a burst of air.

What about where the dust is going? Is there a vacuum system?


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Re: [Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Dave Cole]

I think the machine could be moved via a command to MDI or something 
similar.

Here you go.. the python interface showing the MDI interface..

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/python-interface.html

There are probably a number of ways to do this.
I don't think you need to mess around with the trajectory planner.
I think this problem has been solved a couple of times before.

Dave

On 8/18/2014 2:12 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2014-08-18 20:59 GMT+03:00 Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com:
 I imagine you can get co-ordinates from something like http://opencv.org/
 and then move the nozzle/s as required

 Last year I had an intern that created a script, that used opencv to
 recognize a part and return its coordinates and orientation angle.

 The problem that I could not solve was feeding these coordinates to
 LinuxCNC. It would require some work on trajectory planner.

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[Emc-users] Machine Vision?

[Roland Jollivet]

On 18 August 2014 20:50, Dave Caroline dave.thearchiv...@gmail.com wrote:

 Tip them pocket down and vibrate them, get the dust to fall out (use a
 roller conveyor)

 Dave

 Best advise !!

But if you really want to use a camera, you'll have to contend with purging
a pocket around the lens to keep it dust free.

For vision, have a look at Roborealm.com  . I found it to be very versatile
software, and you can interface to it using the API or a serial interface
if you want to keep the vision standalone.

Roland




 On 18/08/2014, Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za wrote:
  Why bother with detecting the pockets. Use a curtain of nozzles that
  will blow in various directions. Maybe repeated once or twice and then
  blow the lot clean.
  A number of swirling nozzle will also work.
 
  On 2014-08-18 19:46, Todd Zuercher wrote:
  I've had a problem proposed to me. Any ideas or suggestions?
 
  A series of randomly sized wooden pieces (uniform thickness) placed
  randomly on a slow conveyor. Each piece has 1 to 4 small pockets milled
 in
  them. I would like to automate a method of blowing out the dust left
 from
  milling the pockets. How hard would it be to detect the location of
 these
  pockets, position an air nozzle over the pocket and clean them with a
  short air blast as they are carried down the conveyor.
 
 
  --
 
  Regards /Groete
 
  Marius D. Liebenberg
  +27 82 698 3251
  +27 12 743 6064
  QQ 1767394877
 
 
 
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