Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
The question to answer it not which distro _you_ prefer, but which will be best for the project, and best for new users. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. well I tried Unity (the new window manager) from a livecd when it first came out. It sucked for doing work. I'm sure that the new gtk3 windows manager will be quite the same. They were made with program users rather then workers in mind. It may get better I tried the first released version. This seems to be the major complaint of the new user interfaces - harder to do real work and not intuative. But maybe just changing the window manager is enough for us. Chris M -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
I have to come out of lurkdom on this subject. I am one of those who has 3 working systems running from live CD installations and with the exception of obvious .ini file setup and a tweak to disable SMI I am using it out of the box. I have been using EMC since the late 90's when it was on Red Hat. I am presently using 2.3.6 on 8.04 from the live CD and If I must, would be happy to use it just this way for several more years. If there had been a requirement to compile or build or otherwise geek the product the fellow that sent me the Live CD in 1999 would not have done so because he was NOT a geek. Also the fellow that told him about it would not have because he was NOT a geek and I would not have told 5 or 10 more people about it because I am NOT a geek and neither were they. In addition if I were a geek I would hesitate to tell other people about the product if it were not available in a user friendly format because I would then be responsible for maintaining not only my system but also all those to whom I had pitched it. a situation most likely familiar to many of you. I certainly do not discourage the continuing progress on the improvement of the system. In fact I sincerely thank those of you who have made the product what it is by continuing to improve it. I must caution you, however that there are probably many more of us than you think who would rather have a working system that we can install and use than to have a better system that, due to our own limitations, we can not install and use. Please do not consider for even a moment abandoning the Live CD simplified installation! Thanks again for all the hard work. Cecil -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 11/26/2011 2:01 PM, Cecil Thomas wrote: I have to come out of lurkdom on this subject. lots of good stuff deleted Please do not consider for even a moment abandoning the Live CD simplified installation! Thanks again for all the hard work. Cecil Cecil: I can only speak for myself. In my original response, I was thinking out loud about some of the available alternatives one could consider in choosing an appropriate host environment for EMC2. Once chosen, it and EMC2 would be available in LiveCD format just as the current Ubuntu-based distribution is. I consider myself a techno-geek of the first water, but I use the LiveCD just as you do. It's just as great a convenience for experienced users as for new ones. Of course, this ease of use is paid for in sweat equity invested by the development team who assemble and test the LiveCD. I tip my hat to them! Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is, no longer supported?
Hi The real problem it seems to me, is one of philosophy rather than what is practically possible. The use of Ubuntu as a carrier vehicle has enabled a lot of people with minimal Linux knowledge to use EMC. As Kirk said, if a better technical solution were used at the expense of usability, that would impact upon the user base unless someone could be bothered to wrapper it for the uninitiated (which is the overwhelming majority). There should be no reason why the user could not have a choice of kernels from the distro at install time, one for SMP another for UP say. That immediately would answer a lot of problems. I personally do not like the later versions of Ubuntu and strip it out and use a light display manager and windowing system, because I hate the bloat and long initialisation time of Gnome and KDE. I have been doing a lot of rtai kernel building recently. Initially to test the effect of different configs on a quad core MB latency and more latterly to try to build a very light Debian based EMC distro, suitable for old machines. In the course of this I found that EMC runs well on a single processor build of both Lenny and Squeeze and will install on both new and old machines. I currently use a Debian Lenny build, not Ubuntu to run EMC. The longer term problem is that EMC has created a dependency upon a version number of Ubuntu to bring the latest version of EMC to the average user. It does not matter how many times users are told that you can run the latest 2.6 RIP on a Ubuntu 8.04 installation. Because it involves the unknown territory of compilation, they are not interested, all they want is another Live CD release that installs everything for them. So cater for them or it is just us geeks! regards -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 24.11.11 19:21, Moses McKnight wrote: Another option to consider is not using Unity or Gnome3 but maybe LXDE or XFCE instead. Both of these are quite adequate for a machine control and general desktop use. I used Xubuntu on my router table because it took less resources, and it works just fine. Given the grumbling I've seen on a local linux users list, about new gnome releases, and having heard favourable comments about xfce, that sounds attractive. I prefer to have separate machines for web browsing and machine control anyway, so a minimalist GUI would be fine here. Incidentally, EMC2 is the only thing stopping me from chucking ubuntu, and returning to debian. Every ubuntu install requires deletion of sabotaging packages such as NetworkManager. Also, the increasing occurrence of warnings against manual editing of standard config files, makes ubuntu less and less a unix distro, I feel. All that dumbing down eventually has to become a burden for serious users, who neither need nor want another colour of M$. ... I'm willing to help work on the next release again btw if I can carve out a little time. Many thanks for the splendid results of the work done already. :-) Erik -- [..] but the delight and pride of Aule is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither in possession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work. - J.R.R.T, Ainulindale (Silmarillion) -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
It seems to me that if you have an opinion on this matter, and you are posting it to this thread, then you, personally, are not the type of user we should be considering. Is there anyone here with a strong opinion on specific Linux distributions who has a plain, unmodified, LiveCD installation? I would hazard a guess that most, if not all, have a built-from-source or a grabbed-from-buildbot version. The question to answer it not which distro _you_ prefer, but which will be best for the project, and best for new users. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
Andy, you hit me severely there. My respect to all developers and programmers of EMC, but I am sure there is a large silent majority of EMC users who participate without writing to the list, just reading and enjoying. andy pugh schrieb: It seems to me that if you have an opinion on this matter, and you are posting it to this thread, then you, personally, are not the type of user we should be considering. I surely have an opinion on EMC and the OS it's running on. Are you only considering computer freaks to be worthy of participating? Remember, there are plain EMC users, too! Is there anyone here with a strong opinion on specific Linux distributions who has a plain, unmodified, LiveCD installation? I Yes, I do. And it works well, and I don't want to spoil it by experimenting. would hazard a guess that most, if not all, have a built-from-source or a grabbed-from-buildbot version. Wrong, I don't want to put up with a rarely used Unix OS just in order to run my machine. I want to download a CD image, put it into my control PC and start running. If this would't be possible any more, I will have to drop EMC2. I want to have nothing to do with OS questions. The question to answer it not which distro _you_ prefer, but which will be best for the project, and best for new users. The best for new users is to have no bother with operating the system, but running the software needed for machine control. Considering todays computer prices there is absolutely no need to do all computer work on only one computer. I am using all Microsoft software for writing, designing, calculation, mailing etc. on a high rated PC in my home office (and so does my wife) for reasons of compatibility with the 99% rest of the world. And I have a cheap, old low-performance computer in my workshop running ubuntu and EMC. They are connected by our home network, though. I wouldn't want to stand in a cold workshop trying to write an article, edit a book or do energy calculations or other office work. And I couldn't really control my machines from the distant office without seeing and hearing what happened with them. So, with EMC, please stay on the carpet and don't imitate those commercial software gods by complicating matters until they are ununderstandable and unpayable! Peter -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is, no longer supported?
is it not possible automate compilation processes? --- On Fri, 11/25/11, Schooner schoone...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: From: Schooner schoone...@tiscali.co.uk Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is, no longer supported? To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Friday, November 25, 2011, 12:49 AM Hi The real problem it seems to me, is one of philosophy rather than what is practically possible. The use of Ubuntu as a carrier vehicle has enabled a lot of people with minimal Linux knowledge to use EMC. As Kirk said, if a better technical solution were used at the expense of usability, that would impact upon the user base unless someone could be bothered to wrapper it for the uninitiated (which is the overwhelming majority). There should be no reason why the user could not have a choice of kernels from the distro at install time, one for SMP another for UP say. That immediately would answer a lot of problems. I personally do not like the later versions of Ubuntu and strip it out and use a light display manager and windowing system, because I hate the bloat and long initialisation time of Gnome and KDE. I have been doing a lot of rtai kernel building recently. Initially to test the effect of different configs on a quad core MB latency and more latterly to try to build a very light Debian based EMC distro, suitable for old machines. In the course of this I found that EMC runs well on a single processor build of both Lenny and Squeeze and will install on both new and old machines. I currently use a Debian Lenny build, not Ubuntu to run EMC. The longer term problem is that EMC has created a dependency upon a version number of Ubuntu to bring the latest version of EMC to the average user. It does not matter how many times users are told that you can run the latest 2.6 RIP on a Ubuntu 8.04 installation. Because it involves the unknown territory of compilation, they are not interested, all they want is another Live CD release that installs everything for them. So cater for them or it is just us geeks! regards -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
I am using Debian squeeze + Trinity Desktop + Kernel and EMC2 from EMC Repository. Basicly it's identical to Exe Linux Live-CD http://exe-linux.fastfishwebsolutions.com/ with some tweaking (replace kernel and some libs for emc). Basicly it's a good way to go for me, as I like KDE3.5. Nik Am Freitag, 25. November 2011 schrieb Moses McKnight: Another option to consider is not using Unity or Gnome3 but maybe LXDE or XFCE instead. Both of these are quite adequate for a machine control and general desktop use. I used Xubuntu on my router table because it took less resources, and it works just fine. Another thing I thought of last time and it may be a good idea still, is to have a UP kernel and a SMP kernel and people could chose the one that works best for their computer. There may be a way to have the liveCD install pick the right kernel, but if not at least it could be an option in the repository for after the install. I'm willing to help work on the next release again btw if I can carve out a little time. Moses On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Karl Schmidt wrote: In the long run, I think it would be MUCH better to target Debian stable. There is no need for most of the bleeding edge issues that come with Ubuntu for an application like EMC. The stable dist of Debian is really stable and used by many as servers. The only things that change have to do with security issues. For a 'live' edition, Debian live could be tweaked with a realtime kernel. Ubuntu is really Debian with some rather ugly hacks to make it easy for desktop users (to play flash etc.) - --- Karl Schmidt EMail k...@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX (785) 841-0434 Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it ain't so. --Mark Twain - --- - - All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users --- --- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Mag. Dr. Nikolaus Klepp Einnehmerstraße 14 A-4810 Gmunden Tel.: +43 650 82 11 724 email: off...@klepp.biz dr.kl...@gmx.at -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
2011/11/25 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: The question to answer it not which distro _you_ prefer, but which will be best for the project, and best for new users. From my experience - those people, who are unfamiliar with EMC, are unfamiliar with Linux. The fact that EMC is running on Ubuntu has helped to convince those people I have dealt with that it is worth trying it, because it is working out-of-box. Hobby users have time to spend on compiling the software and do other things. My customers can be considered as industrial users and they like the fact that no special linux knowledge is required to run EMC. A simple system can be set up within hours, completely restored on different PC hardware within 1 hour - just reinstall OS and copy config files. If additional installation of customized kinematics module or some realtime component is required, it adds just a few minutes to overall time. I would like to add my vote for Ubuntu + light GUI like LXDE. Viesturs -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 25 November 2011 10:51, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: Andy, you hit me severely there. My respect to all developers and programmers of EMC, but I am sure there is a large silent majority of EMC users who participate without writing to the list, just reading and enjoying. Indeed, my point is that those are the people who we should consider when choosing an OS to base the LiveCD on. I surely have an opinion on EMC and the OS it's running on. Are you only considering computer freaks to be worthy of participating? Absolutely not. I am saying that most of the people suggesting that we run on RedHat or Debian or Puppy or Poky because they are doing so, and like it, would be running on that distro regardless of the choice of OS used on the LiveCD. Hence, for those people the LiveCD OS is irrelevant, and suggesting that their favourite super-hardcore OS is best of the liveCD is missing the point of who the LiveCD is aimed at. Actually, I am disproving my own point here, as I am posting here, and have no intention of ever using anything other than a LiveCD OS, as I have very little clue about Linux, I am a Mac user. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 11:11:42AM -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: So, if I have a UP motherboard and upgrade to 10.04, which pulls SMP and APIC. I might be able to fix my system by learning how to compile my kernel and select UP instead of SMP? You would have to build your own version of the kernel, rtai, and emc2. rtai and emc2 depend on the exact version and configuration flags of the kernel---mixing and matching don't work. That's why for each distribution we support, we only support a single kernel: supporting two doubles the work of packaging and testing. Jeff -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 4:20 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported? It seems to me that if you have an opinion on this matter, and you are posting it to this thread, then you, personally, are not the type of user we should be considering. Is there anyone here with a strong opinion on specific Linux distributions who has a plain, unmodified, LiveCD installation? I would hazard a guess that most, if not all, have a built-from-source or a grabbed-from-buildbot version. The question to answer it not which distro _you_ prefer, but which will be best for the project, and best for new users. I am one of those new users and while I find all this discussion interesting and informative I have been quite pleased with EMC2 up to this point. While I'm eager to learn more about Linux I have neither the knowledge or the time to do much tinkering with its innards so I'm grateful to those who have done all the hard work of making it functional and easy to use for folks like me. I've been lucky so far that Ubuntu has installed without hassle on all of the 4 or 5 machines I've used it on (all but the first of those installations has been from the EMC2 live CD). So, whatever distribution is used in the future is OK with me as long as it just works and will install on the older, used machilnes I prefer (because I can get them for free (; ). -Greg -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Friday, November 25, 2011 12:35:41 PM Edward Bernard did opine: You were going to say? :) From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 4:20 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported? It seems to me that if you have an opinion on this matter, and you are posting it to this thread, then you, personally, are not the type of user we should be considering. Is there anyone here with a strong opinion on specific Linux distributions who has a plain, unmodified, LiveCD installation? I would hazard a guess that most, if not all, have a built-from-source or a grabbed-from-buildbot version. The question to answer it not which distro _you_ prefer, but which will be best for the project, and best for new users. I am one of those new users and while I find all this discussion interesting and informative I have been quite pleased with EMC2 up to this point. While I'm eager to learn more about Linux I have neither the knowledge or the time to do much tinkering with its innards so I'm grateful to those who have done all the hard work of making it functional and easy to use for folks like me. I've been lucky so far that Ubuntu has installed without hassle on all of the 4 or 5 machines I've used it on (all but the first of those installations has been from the EMC2 live CD). So, whatever distribution is used in the future is OK with me as long as it just works and will install on the older, used machilnes I prefer (because I can get them for free (; ). -Greg -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the systematic organisation of hatreds. -- Henry Adams, The Education of Henry Adams -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
Sorry 'bout that. : I am one of those new users and while I find all this discussion interesting and informative I have been quite pleased with EMC2 up to this point. While I'm eager to learn more about Linux I have neither the knowledge or the time to do much tinkering with its innards so I'm grateful to those who have done all the hard work of making it functional and easy to use for folks like me. I've been lucky so far that Ubuntu has installed without hassle on all of the 4 or 5 machines I've used it on (all but the first of those installations has been from the EMC2 live CD). So, whatever distribution is used in the future is OK with me as long as it just works and will install on the older, used machilnes I prefer (because I can get them for free :) ). From: gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported? On Friday, November 25, 2011 12:35:41 PM Edward Bernard did opine: You were going to say? :) From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 4:20 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported? It seems to me that if you have an opinion on this matter, and you are posting it to this thread, then you, personally, are not the type of user we should be considering. Is there anyone here with a strong opinion on specific Linux distributions who has a plain, unmodified, LiveCD installation? I would hazard a guess that most, if not all, have a built-from-source or a grabbed-from-buildbot version. The question to answer it not which distro _you_ prefer, but which will be best for the project, and best for new users. I am one of those new users and while I find all this discussion interesting and informative I have been quite pleased with EMC2 up to this point. While I'm eager to learn more about Linux I have neither the knowledge or the time to do much tinkering with its innards so I'm grateful to those who have done all the hard work of making it functional and easy to use for folks like me. I've been lucky so far that Ubuntu has installed without hassle on all of the 4 or 5 machines I've used it on (all but the first of those installations has been from the EMC2 live CD). So, whatever distribution is used in the future is OK with me as long as it just works and will install on the older, used machilnes I prefer (because I can get them for free (; ). -Greg -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the systematic organisation of hatreds. -- Henry Adams, The Education of Henry Adams -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 7:51 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 November 2011 10:51, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: Andy, you hit me severely there. My respect to all developers and programmers of EMC, but I am sure there is a large silent majority of EMC users who participate without writing to the list, just reading and enjoying. Indeed, my point is that those are the people who we should consider when choosing an OS to base the LiveCD on. I have been a fairly hardcore user of Linux, RTAI, realtime linux, and for that matter emc from back in the old source tarball days. My preference is to continue using Ubuntu for the livecd unless there is a real crisis. As Andy says, it's not that hard to install emc2 on another machine if you are moderately skilled at using Linux. I have really gotten used to apt-get installs, and I hate building from source. Even the most minimal source build seems to require ridiculous dependency hassles that just aren't worth it to me any more. Unless you get the source package from a distribution, of course. Eric -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 11/25/2011 01:11 PM, Eric Keller wrote: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 7:51 AM, andy pughbodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 November 2011 10:51, Peter Blodowp.blo...@dreki.de wrote: Andy, you hit me severely there. My respect to all developers and programmers of EMC, but I am sure there is a large silent majority of EMC users who participate without writing to the list, just reading and enjoying. Indeed, my point is that those are the people who we should consider when choosing an OS to base the LiveCD on. I have been a fairly hardcore user of Linux, RTAI, realtime linux, and for that matter emc from back in the old source tarball days. My preference is to continue using Ubuntu for the livecd unless there is a real crisis. As Andy says, it's not that hard to install emc2 on another machine if you are moderately skilled at using Linux. I have really gotten used to apt-get installs, and I hate building from source. Even the most minimal source build seems to require ridiculous dependency hassles that just aren't worth it to me any more. Unless you get the source package from a distribution, of course. Eric I don't believe the goal is to make anything harder, or to go away from the debian packaging system (apt-get etc). I think the problem is that the newest version of Gnome (v3) is more bloated and less usable than ever. Xubuntu is a complete Ubuntu system but it uses XFCE for the desktop instead of Gnome. Lubuntu is Ubuntu with LXDE. Both of these require a lot less system resources than Gnome or KDE, but are fully functional and nice enough looking. And of course Debian is what Ubuntu is based on but it tends to be more stable. It has not historically had as good hardware and media format support out of the box as Ubuntu partly due to a more strict adherence to an open-source-only policy. That may have changed a little now, but I don't know since I haven't used it much for a while. Moses -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Moses McKnight mo...@texband.net wrote: And of course Debian is what Ubuntu is based on but it tends to be more stable. It has not historically had as good hardware and media format support out of the box as Ubuntu partly due to a more strict adherence to an open-source-only policy. That may have changed a little now, but I don't know since I haven't used it much for a while. Moses When I got tired of Fedora's desire to only ship broken, untested software a couple of years ago, I tried Debian. The installer was a nightmare that reminded me of the old 10 floppy install days. I don't know if they have changed that or not, but if they haven't, it's a complete non-starter. The liveCD effort was only peripherally official for the longest time, anyone that feels strongly about this issue can make their own livecd and I suspect we can find a place to host it. If the idea is that the current system is broken and the people that maintain it should use something else, i.e., someone else should do something, that is an entirely different matter and a fairly weak argument. The first step is to find out how hard it is to make an installer disk with custom kernels and software packages. Eric -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 11/25/2011 02:38 PM, Eric Keller wrote: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Moses McKnightmo...@texband.net wrote: And of course Debian is what Ubuntu is based on but it tends to be more stable. It has not historically had as good hardware and media format support out of the box as Ubuntu partly due to a more strict adherence to an open-source-only policy. That may have changed a little now, but I don't know since I haven't used it much for a while. Moses When I got tired of Fedora's desire to only ship broken, untested software a couple of years ago, I tried Debian. The installer was a nightmare that reminded me of the old 10 floppy install days. ... a couple of years ago: perhaps you mean a ( couple * 5 ) years ago? I use quite a few installers - the Debian one is one of the best. Of course if you have brandnew hardware without driver support you can have problems - as is true for all the Linux distros.. There are Debian firmware packages (they supply the binary heaps in /lib/firmware) in case you are using some proprietary firmware. Just isn't a problem these days and particularly so for the things in EMC2. Having a rock solid system is important for folks running EMC2 - There are many cases where bleeding edge support means a less stable system - not something I want on a machine tool. A lot bugs get fixed in Debian first. The fixes pass through experimental - unstable, testing then stable and it is possible to pull code in from unstable to a stable system if need be ( Ubuntu is mostly a mix of testing/unstable Debian packages anyway). (There is also way to pull in Debian packages to Ubuntu). The one thing that Ubuntu offers is paid support - but the comments I've heard from people that have used it say it is better to just search mailing lists.. There are many that are now saying that mint (it is also based on Debian) is displacing Ubuntu as the best desktop ( there is now a branch of mint that goes straight back to Debian to avoid some bugs) - , but I would say the differences are really small - most distros are running pretty much the same code - the important issue for controlling a machine is stability - and Debian is the stability king with the older, time-tested, and debugged code - a good thing for machine control. The other difference between distros is if bugs actually get back to the developers -- explained in detail here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=338508801782476# Karl Schmidt EMail k...@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX (785) 841-0434 Postmodernism: nihilism in drag. -kps -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 24 November 2011 02:46, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: What has me nervous is my recent experience of upgrading from 8.04 to 10.04 and having some of my long trusted motherboards not work or have terrible latency, with the usual fixes having no effect. I believe that part of this was not directly related to EMC2. My impression is that the decision was made to support SMP as such a large proportion of motherboards are multi-core or multi-CPU now (even the 1U server that runs my machine is dual Xeon). Unfortunately that seemed to bring in a dependency on a local APIC, which some boards don't seem to support, or, worse, claim to support but are broken. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_APIC_Architecture I believe that it would have been possible to make the 2.4 LiveCD (on 10.04) just as compatible as the 2.3 LiveCD (on 8.04) but at the expense of rather crippling a lot of hardware. Arguably this is a non-issue in practice, but people seem to have a distaste for buying CPUS and having them sit idle. It is worth re-iterating that all versions up to master(2.6) work perfectly well on Ubuntu 8.04. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
Ubuntu 10 seemed significantly slower than Ubuntu 8 on exact same hardware. storage space is a sort of peripheral issue. bloating is along the lines of processing resources required for given task i think. i seem to recall that opening a file on a trs80 took very little time. --- On Wed, 11/23/11, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote: From: Jack Coats j...@coats.org Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported? To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 5:26 PM Andy, I was not trying to suggest EMC2 is bloated, but with the newer releases of Ubuntu, I have heard reports that they are becoming bloated. My thoughts were that EMC2 is with a fairly trim distribution (Ubuntu 10.04LTS) and should make sure the partner we pair with is similarly endowed. Boy, I'm glad my wife isn't saying that about me. I would hate to be replaced by Husband2.0 :) ... Jack -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
another alternative: bifurcation. an install and play latest os version, and a barebones version intended as a dedicated machine controller. my guess is that there are far more functional types of hardware in the world than there are versions of software which can live happily on the hardware types. otherwise 'obsolete' cpu habitats could be seen as an unexploited resource. --- On Wed, 11/23/11, Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com wrote: From: Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported? To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 8:25 PM On 11/23/2011 8:08 PM, Jack Coats wrote: I know EMC2 doesn't do anything but Ubuntu LTS as it's 'official' supported distribution. On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat and moving to Unity and things not working. Have we, as a community or even just developers, thought about now to go to a 'less bloated' distribution? I do like the idea of the LTS (Long Term Support) part of distributions. And moving from any distribution to another I have always considered a pain. But I could support moving if we can find another 'long term supportable' option where this community doesn't have to support the OS also. Any ideas? Thoughts? Concerns? Thanks for the responses. ... Jack We've had variations of this discussion before. My principal question is always, what do you want your real-time EMC2-equipped computer to do? If it is intended solely to control a machine, then most of Ubuntu is unnecessary. Others have posted to the Wiki their successes in bringing EMC2 to minimalist Linux environments, and we could go that route. Indeed, I'm planning to do that myself once I get around to finishing my real, headless controller (as opposed to my bench-test controller). Instead of starting with a distribution packaged by someone else, we could create one ourselves, starting with Linux From Scratch (LFS), resulting in the absolute minimum environment needed to build and run EMC2. To my mind, for controllers there are only two reasons for thinking about upgrading the O/S: 1) a new version of EMC2 with features I want requires it or 2) a new motherboard/CPU/peripherals-combo to replace an old one requires it. Upgrading for just the sake of getting the latest flashy desktop seems ludicrous. On the other hand, if your EMC2-equipped computer is intended to support Internet telephony, browse HackADay.com, run all your favorite CAD/CAM applications, keep the books, play music videos, etc., and, oh-by-the-way run a machine tool (I think this is the wrong approach, but that's just me), then you're likely to want to start with a full distribution like Ubuntu, so why not stick with Ubuntu for as long as possible? The number of applications that are supported in Ubuntu is staggering. I don't think any of the other distributions are immune to the pressures of the marketplace (even with free software there's a marketplace, it just has a different reward system) and won't get enamored of Unity or their own version of a touchy-tablet desktop environment. We can strip the distribution down if we like, or, instead of subtracting from the full edition, we could add to the server edition. Whatever. This kind of remastering used to be very hard but it's gotten easy in recent years. And if Ubuntu goes completely off the track, there are other, less popular distributions so similar in the technologies EMC2 depends on that the transition would be almost effortless. Frankly, if I wanted to lie awake at night, I'd choose to worry about the teams developing real-time extensions to Linux in the face of rapid changes to the Linux kernel or about the future of AXIS as both desktop environments and windowing systems evolve. Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
i can state from my experience that (early) hardware requirements are understated, and additionally, operating system needs are over-required. has anyone ever had a look inside an '80s fanuc computer? the killer memory board is 512kB. they can run NC programs from a magnetic reel to reel tape drive. --- On Wed, 11/23/11, Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com wrote: From: Kent A. Reed knbr...@erols.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported? To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Wednesday, November 23, 2011, 8:33 PM On 11/23/2011 9:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jack Coats wrote: I know EMC2 doesn't do anything but Ubuntu LTS as it's 'official' supported distribution. On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat and moving to Unity and things not working. Have we, as a community or even just developers, thought about now to go to a 'less bloated' distribution? What's the problem? It still fits on one CD, and will run in 256 MB of memory (I think). Unless we start supporting a port to some non-X86 architecture, it really doesn't seem to be a major problem at the moment. Jon I'm glad you mentioned the memory requirement, Jon. Just because I've been looking at the EMC2 documentation lately, I've begun to wonder about some of the statements made about minimum requirements for CPU speed and RAM size. Some look suspiciously old. Have we tested these claims lately? I was thinking about using virtual machines to try installing and running EMC2 (in simulator mode, of course) with different memory sizes, but realistically I can no longer test at slow CPU speeds like the 400MHz PII/PIII claimed on the Wiki or the 700 MHz x86 claimed in the Getting Started doc. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
There's no fixed answer to your question. If there is one, it's this: Whatever members of the community step forward to provide though for the last 4 or so years another answer has been Each Ubuntu LTS release, sooner or later If it really tickles your fancy, and you have hardware that is compatible, then you can still download the emc 2.1 releases for Ubuntu 5.10 breezy badger and they'll work just as well as they always have. On the other hand, we sometimes find that we cannot continue to support old distributions without making bad compromises (for instance, hostmot2 won't work on Ubnutu 5.10 because the realtime kernel of that vintage lacks support for 'request_firmware()', but being able to choose a firmware at runtime is a very important element of hostmot2). Not to mention that Ubuntu 5.10 is so old that nobody is offering up patches to keep emc2 running on it. It's really when there's no longer an active advocate of a previously-supported operating system release that we stop trying to make new versions of emc2 work there. For that reason, there's a (fairly slow) requirement to upgrade to new distributions when upgrading to new feature releases of emc2. But this thread is not precisely about running new emc on old distributions, it's just as much about the idea that each new version of Ubuntu is becoming less suitable for running realtime software, or for running on low-end hardware. This may be true, though the Ubuntu developers are probably making very reasonable decisions if their goal is to create a good desktop and server distribution. For instance, we have seen that many accelerated OpenGL drivers lead to unacceptable latencies when the requirement is sub-10µs jitter. But this latter requirement is totally irrelevant to a standard desktop system. There's no reason that Ubuntu shouldn't make accelerated OpenGL a requirement in their new desktop systems, but that item alone might make emc essentially broken for a large swath of its users. As I see it, what we have gained from Ubuntu in the past is a system that: * is usable both as a standard desktop system and as a CNC control (at the same time!) * uses debian-based software packaging * receives security updates for 3-5 years * works on a fairly wide range of machines * can run live or install to a hard drive * can easily be set up as a development environment for emc2 * fits on a single piece of standard CDR media I would be sad to give up any of these features (though Ubuntu 12.04 will reportedly give up on fitting on one CD, so already we stand to lose on that score) There have been a few efforts to make a non-Ubuntu-based distribution for emc2. I recall two, one based on Puppy Linux and the other based on DSL (Damn Small Linux). However, these failed in many respects. The worst aspects were that they did not have security updates, and that they were difficult (or impossible) to set up as as emc development environments--building a new version of emc2 (or anything else) involved building a new CD image on a regular Linux system, and upgrading an installed version involved deleting all customized files in the system including emc2 configurations. They were also nearly useless as desktops, because they only included non-standard or very old web browsers. For these reasons, they are not of any practical use. On the other hand, contributor Acemi has in the past posted very thorough instructions on our wiki that explain step by step how to get emc2 running on various versions of Debian. Debian has many of the features we want (software packaging and updates) and also has leaner installation requirements compared to Ubuntu's standard desktop. If you want to install emc2 on a low-spec machine, then my recommendation would be to learn enough Linux to follow these instructions (which unfortunately have not been updated since before Debian 6.0 was released, so now they're a bit outdated). This hasn't even touched on the trade-offs inherent in this little bullet item: * works on a fairly wide range of machines Two major trade-offs are: SMP vs UP and 32-bit vs 64-bit. For our distribution based on Ubuntu 8.04, we opted for UP and 32-bit and later on offered a SMP 64-bit version (without corresponding live CD). For 10.04, we opted for SMP and 32-bit--and based on the lack of feedback about the 64-bit version, we didn't offer a 64-bit version again. The SMP version actually works on single-threaded CPUs, but requires a hardware feature called APIC. Information on the internet indicated that Microsoft made APIC a requirement for receiving the Windows logo in 2001, so we judged that this would not be problematic. However, the difficulties encountered by our users indicate that this may have been the wrong decision. In 2012, what decision should we make? Should we make it with 2000 hardware in mind? 2008? 2012? 2014? It's a tough call to make, especially when we'll probably test on less than a
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
Kent A. Reed wrote: I'm glad you mentioned the memory requirement, Jon. Just because I've been looking at the EMC2 documentation lately, I've begun to wonder about some of the statements made about minimum requirements for CPU speed and RAM size. Some look suspiciously old. Have we tested these claims lately? I was thinking about using virtual machines to try installing and running EMC2 (in simulator mode, of course) with different memory sizes, but realistically I can no longer test at slow CPU speeds like the 400MHz PII/PIII claimed on the Wiki or the 700 MHz x86 claimed in the Getting Started doc. Yes, I'm sure the minimum specs are out of date. I know 10.04 will load and run fine on a D525MW with 512 MB of memory, I'm not absolutely sure on the 256 anymore. (I know 8.04 will install in 256.) I still have a system with only 128 MB of memory, but that is probably running 6.06 I think about 1 GHz is needed for the CPU, especially if you are running Axis. You can probably run with a slower CPU if you use TkEMC or Touchy. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
In the long run, I think it would be MUCH better to target Debian stable. There is no need for most of the bleeding edge issues that come with Ubuntu for an application like EMC. The stable dist of Debian is really stable and used by many as servers. The only things that change have to do with security issues. For a 'live' edition, Debian live could be tweaked with a realtime kernel. Ubuntu is really Debian with some rather ugly hacks to make it easy for desktop users (to play flash etc.) Karl Schmidt EMail k...@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX (785) 841-0434 Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it ain't so. --Mark Twain -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Thu, 2011-11-24 at 09:23 -0600, Jeff Epler wrote: ... snip The SMP version actually works on single-threaded CPUs, but requires a hardware feature called APIC. Information on the internet indicated that Microsoft made APIC a requirement for receiving the Windows logo in 2001, so we judged that this would not be problematic. However, the difficulties encountered by our users indicate that this may have been the wrong decision. In 2012, what decision should we make? Should we make it with 2000 hardware in mind? 2008? 2012? 2014? It's a tough call to make, especially when we'll probably test on less than a dozen machines before committing to a course that we'll have to follow over the next 2+ years. ... snip So, if I have a UP motherboard and upgrade to 10.04, which pulls SMP and APIC. I might be able to fix my system by learning how to compile my kernel and select UP instead of SMP? Or, just upgrade to an SMP motherboard? Upgrading the motherboard would be fine, but it would be nice to have this issue made more clear up front. It's not that I don't realize I'm freeloading on others work with EMC2, but it would be nice to avoid these snakes-in-the-grass. Plus these snakes could give EMC2 and Linux the reputation of being only for geeks. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Thursday, November 24, 2011 02:58:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: On Thu, 2011-11-24 at 09:23 -0600, Jeff Epler wrote: ... snip The SMP version actually works on single-threaded CPUs, but requires a hardware feature called APIC. Information on the internet indicated that Microsoft made APIC a requirement for receiving the Windows logo in 2001, so we judged that this would not be problematic. However, the difficulties encountered by our users indicate that this may have been the wrong decision. In 2012, what decision should we make? Should we make it with 2000 hardware in mind? 2008? 2012? 2014? It's a tough call to make, especially when we'll probably test on less than a dozen machines before committing to a course that we'll have to follow over the next 2+ years. ... snip So, if I have a UP motherboard and upgrade to 10.04, which pulls SMP and APIC. I might be able to fix my system by learning how to compile my kernel and select UP instead of SMP? Or, just upgrade to an SMP motherboard? Upgrading the motherboard would be fine, but it would be nice to have this issue made more clear up front. It's not that I don't realize I'm freeloading on others work with EMC2, but it would be nice to avoid these snakes-in-the-grass. Plus these snakes could give EMC2 and Linux the reputation of being only for geeks. A very valid point IMO. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Those who educate children well are more to be honored than parents, for these only gave life, those the art of living well. -- Aristotle -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 24 November 2011 19:11, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: So, if I have a UP motherboard and upgrade to 10.04, which pulls SMP and APIC. I might be able to fix my system by learning how to compile my kernel and select UP instead of SMP? Yes, in fact it _might_ be as simple as running menuconfig or xconfig to change a switch using the the existing EMC2 kernel configuration and files. I am not entirely sure if the LiveCD install includes all the required files, or if you have to download a kernel, apply the RTAI patches, find the EMC2 kernel config, edit it, and recompile. Hopefully somebody who knows the process bette than me can answer. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
Another option to consider is not using Unity or Gnome3 but maybe LXDE or XFCE instead. Both of these are quite adequate for a machine control and general desktop use. I used Xubuntu on my router table because it took less resources, and it works just fine. Another thing I thought of last time and it may be a good idea still, is to have a UP kernel and a SMP kernel and people could chose the one that works best for their computer. There may be a way to have the liveCD install pick the right kernel, but if not at least it could be an option in the repository for after the install. I'm willing to help work on the next release again btw if I can carve out a little time. Moses On 11/24/2011 12:55 PM, Karl Schmidt wrote: In the long run, I think it would be MUCH better to target Debian stable. There is no need for most of the bleeding edge issues that come with Ubuntu for an application like EMC. The stable dist of Debian is really stable and used by many as servers. The only things that change have to do with security issues. For a 'live' edition, Debian live could be tweaked with a realtime kernel. Ubuntu is really Debian with some rather ugly hacks to make it easy for desktop users (to play flash etc.) Karl Schmidt EMail k...@xtronics.com Transtronics, Inc. WEB http://xtronics.com 3209 West 9th Street Ph (785) 841-3089 Lawrence, KS 66049 FAX (785) 841-0434 Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it ain't so. --Mark Twain -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
I was going to comment on Lubuntu. I am not sure if there are LTS releases of it though. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
I know EMC2 doesn't do anything but Ubuntu LTS as it's 'official' supported distribution. On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat and moving to Unity and things not working. Have we, as a community or even just developers, thought about now to go to a 'less bloated' distribution? I do like the idea of the LTS (Long Term Support) part of distributions. And moving from any distribution to another I have always considered a pain. But I could support moving if we can find another 'long term supportable' option where this community doesn't have to support the OS also. Any ideas? Thoughts? Concerns? Thanks for the responses. ... Jack -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 24 November 2011 01:08, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote: On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat I have 4GB free on an 8GB SSD, and that includes all the EMC2 source and developer tools. That doesn't strike me as particularly bloated. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
Andy, I was not trying to suggest EMC2 is bloated, but with the newer releases of Ubuntu, I have heard reports that they are becoming bloated. My thoughts were that EMC2 is with a fairly trim distribution (Ubuntu 10.04LTS) and should make sure the partner we pair with is similarly endowed. Boy, I'm glad my wife isn't saying that about me. I would hate to be replaced by Husband2.0 :) ... Jack -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Wednesday, November 23, 2011 08:23:43 PM Jack Coats did opine: I know EMC2 doesn't do anything but Ubuntu LTS as it's 'official' supported distribution. On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat and moving to Unity and things not working. Have we, as a community or even just developers, thought about now to go to a 'less bloated' distribution? I do like the idea of the LTS (Long Term Support) part of distributions. And moving from any distribution to another I have always considered a pain. But I could support moving if we can find another 'long term supportable' option where this community doesn't have to support the OS also. Any ideas? Thoughts? Concerns? I am considering moving this box from pclos to centos-6, but as a kde person, the kde in it is one of the half broken 4.3.5 hacks, probably with its bigger warts covered by the parent RHEL-6 patches. This theoretically gets us nearly 5 years of LTS. The downside is that while security patches will follow the RH releases by 1-2 weeks, version numbers are largely frozen since RH has a habit of backporting patches but not a whole new release. But OTOH, it is at least as fresh as 10.04 is, and likely a heck of a lot more complete than my pclos is. I am always finding something that needs 2 or 4 libraries pclos doesn't supply so I can't build a newer, 10,000% improved digikam for instance. Ditto for wpa_suplicant which in the pclos version is a miserable, time wasting failure. For 10.04, it Just Works(TM). That distro runs at a bit over 7Gb, takes two dvd's now. Its current kernel is 2.6.32-71 in the 64 bit version. This is still being actively supported on the Linux-Kernel Mailing list as a long term supported kernel, and should be fine on any hardware more than 2 years old. AFAIK, no new 'long term' kernels are about, and likely won't be till 3 months or so before the RHEL-7-rc1 release is defined. Since 6 is pretty fresh, that likely is 2 years plus down the log. I ran a 2.6.32 kernel here for a while, but pclos changed to the 2.6.38 about 9 months back, with the BFS scheduler enabled in some builds. How that would co-exist with RTAI, I have no clue, but to the desktop user, bfs is one heck of an improvement in the feel. Thanks for the responses. ... Jack -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest. -- Bullwinkle Moose -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Wednesday, November 23, 2011 08:52:04 PM Jack Coats did opine: Andy, I was not trying to suggest EMC2 is bloated, but with the newer releases of Ubuntu, I have heard reports that they are becoming bloated. My thoughts were that EMC2 is with a fairly trim distribution (Ubuntu 10.04LTS) and should make sure the partner we pair with is similarly endowed. Boy, I'm glad my wife isn't saying that about me. I would hate to be replaced by Husband2.0 :) You will likely be fine as long as she never hears about that copy of Mistress-1.5 you've been playing with. ;-) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Pascal Users: The Pascal system will be replaced next Tuesday by Cobol. Please modify your programs accordingly. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On Wed, 2011-11-23 at 19:26 -0600, Jack Coats wrote: Andy, I was not trying to suggest EMC2 is bloated, but with the newer releases of Ubuntu, I have heard reports that they are becoming bloated. My thoughts were that EMC2 is with a fairly trim distribution (Ubuntu 10.04LTS) and should make sure the partner we pair with is similarly endowed. Boy, I'm glad my wife isn't saying that about me. I would hate to be replaced by Husband2.0 :) ... Jack What has me nervous is my recent experience of upgrading from 8.04 to 10.04 and having some of my long trusted motherboards not work or have terrible latency, with the usual fixes having no effect. There may be solutions in the wings, but I really don't enjoy having to search for or wait for a fix every time the operating system gets upgraded, especially if most (or all) of these upgrades have absolutely nothing to do with EMC2 or RTAI. I suspect these issues are not lost on Tormach or Smithy. I suspect this is less of a software bloat problem as a kernel config file bloat problem, but that's just a guess. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
Jack Coats wrote: I know EMC2 doesn't do anything but Ubuntu LTS as it's 'official' supported distribution. On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat and moving to Unity and things not working. Have we, as a community or even just developers, thought about now to go to a 'less bloated' distribution? What's the problem? It still fits on one CD, and will run in 256 MB of memory (I think). Unless we start supporting a port to some non-X86 architecture, it really doesn't seem to be a major problem at the moment. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
I'm not saying that the 10.04 is bloated, but some of the folks that have moved to 11.04 or 11.10 locally have noted several 'broke as designed' items and have complained about bloat in the newer versions as well as the new Ubiquity user interface. I am guessing 12.04 will be the next LTS version. I am not complaining, just wondering what our outlook for the future is and if there are any suggested changes. Trying to be a bit proactive and forward thinking. Historically I have seen software enlarge to meet the capability of the hardware it runs on. Using its features is OK, but leaving some of the capability for other software to use (like EMC2, CAD/CAM packages, etc) rather than trying to soak it all up in the OS and support software is good too. ... Jack -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 11/23/2011 8:08 PM, Jack Coats wrote: I know EMC2 doesn't do anything but Ubuntu LTS as it's 'official' supported distribution. On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat and moving to Unity and things not working. Have we, as a community or even just developers, thought about now to go to a 'less bloated' distribution? I do like the idea of the LTS (Long Term Support) part of distributions. And moving from any distribution to another I have always considered a pain. But I could support moving if we can find another 'long term supportable' option where this community doesn't have to support the OS also. Any ideas? Thoughts? Concerns? Thanks for the responses. ... Jack We've had variations of this discussion before. My principal question is always, what do you want your real-time EMC2-equipped computer to do? If it is intended solely to control a machine, then most of Ubuntu is unnecessary. Others have posted to the Wiki their successes in bringing EMC2 to minimalist Linux environments, and we could go that route. Indeed, I'm planning to do that myself once I get around to finishing my real, headless controller (as opposed to my bench-test controller). Instead of starting with a distribution packaged by someone else, we could create one ourselves, starting with Linux From Scratch (LFS), resulting in the absolute minimum environment needed to build and run EMC2. To my mind, for controllers there are only two reasons for thinking about upgrading the O/S: 1) a new version of EMC2 with features I want requires it or 2) a new motherboard/CPU/peripherals-combo to replace an old one requires it. Upgrading for just the sake of getting the latest flashy desktop seems ludicrous. On the other hand, if your EMC2-equipped computer is intended to support Internet telephony, browse HackADay.com, run all your favorite CAD/CAM applications, keep the books, play music videos, etc., and, oh-by-the-way run a machine tool (I think this is the wrong approach, but that's just me), then you're likely to want to start with a full distribution like Ubuntu, so why not stick with Ubuntu for as long as possible? The number of applications that are supported in Ubuntu is staggering. I don't think any of the other distributions are immune to the pressures of the marketplace (even with free software there's a marketplace, it just has a different reward system) and won't get enamored of Unity or their own version of a touchy-tablet desktop environment. We can strip the distribution down if we like, or, instead of subtracting from the full edition, we could add to the server edition. Whatever. This kind of remastering used to be very hard but it's gotten easy in recent years. And if Ubuntu goes completely off the track, there are other, less popular distributions so similar in the technologies EMC2 depends on that the transition would be almost effortless. Frankly, if I wanted to lie awake at night, I'd choose to worry about the teams developing real-time extensions to Linux in the face of rapid changes to the Linux kernel or about the future of AXIS as both desktop environments and windowing systems evolve. Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 11/23/2011 9:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jack Coats wrote: I know EMC2 doesn't do anything but Ubuntu LTS as it's 'official' supported distribution. On several other lists I have noticed the complaints about the Ubuntu Bloat and moving to Unity and things not working. Have we, as a community or even just developers, thought about now to go to a 'less bloated' distribution? What's the problem? It still fits on one CD, and will run in 256 MB of memory (I think). Unless we start supporting a port to some non-X86 architecture, it really doesn't seem to be a major problem at the moment. Jon I'm glad you mentioned the memory requirement, Jon. Just because I've been looking at the EMC2 documentation lately, I've begun to wonder about some of the statements made about minimum requirements for CPU speed and RAM size. Some look suspiciously old. Have we tested these claims lately? I was thinking about using virtual machines to try installing and running EMC2 (in simulator mode, of course) with different memory sizes, but realistically I can no longer test at slow CPU speeds like the 400MHz PII/PIII claimed on the Wiki or the 700 MHz x86 claimed in the Getting Started doc. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Next distribution after Ubuntu 10.04 LTS is no longer supported?
On 11/23/2011 07:52 PM, Jack Coats wrote: I'm not saying that the 10.04 is bloated, but some of the folks that have moved to 11.04 or 11.10 locally have noted several 'broke as designed' items and have complained about bloat in the newer versions as well as the new Ubiquity user interface. I am guessing 12.04 will be the next LTS version. Agree. Kubuntu 11.04 upgraded to 11.10 on my home workstation is giving me a hell of a time I haven't seen in years. Nvidia drivers especially are unpredictable. Some utilities like Amarok drive CPU use to 103% according to top. Stable Debian or minimal Ubuntu with XFCE4 would be more appropriate for EMC and better fit for smaller embedded systems IMO. I looked at XFCE4 recently and find it provides good enough environment for most GUI needs with smaller footprint than Gnome or KDE. I am not complaining, just wondering what our outlook for the future is and if there are any suggested changes. Trying to be a bit proactive and forward thinking. Agree. Historically I have seen software enlarge to meet the capability of the hardware it runs on. Using its features is OK, but leaving some of the capability for other software to use (like EMC2, CAD/CAM packages, etc) rather than trying to soak it all up in the OS and support software is good too. ... Jack There is one more issue at this time in history, transition from 32bit to 64bit. Mix of 64bit and 32bit libraries and other code is causing all kinds of strange problems if you run some Java or other apps that were written for 32 bit release. -- Rafael -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
