[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened? This is excellent Edg. Promises go both ways in non abusive relationships. I think if we had been a bit older we could have seen that he was just winging it all and not take it all so seriously. But youth wants absolutes and he served us a plate full! I remember Vincent Snell in Yugoslavia telling me that MMY tends to be overly optimistic, with a wry, knowing look. I didn't get it then, but I do now. He wasn't a kid when he met MMY, so he had the salt shaker of age to see MMY in more realistic terms. He broke his promises, all of them to some degree, to us long, long, decades ago, when money became the TMO's bottom line. My new pet theory is that MMY was trying to re-create the grandeur that he felt in Joitir Math with Guru Dev. He was locked out of that possibility by caste, so he created his own kingdom with golden hats and the showy splendor of his youth. **snip to end** Curtis, this last paragraph of yours (above) sounds about right to me. One thing that always bothered me (particularly as an artist) was just how unappealing Maharishi's aesthetics were. Of course, in matters of taste there can be no dispute, and Maharishi comes out of a popular culture of excess and grandiosity, which I can personally really get into; but the aesthetic of the TMO is a peculiar amalgam of rococo and blandness that has neither elegance nor power, and it comes directly from Maharishi, of course. It's not even as interesting as what Trump does, or what you'd see in an old-time Masonic temple, nor as scarily Mussolini-esqe as Scientology's take on pomp, pageantry and power (check out the set in this 24-second video of Tom C. at a Scientology awards ceremony: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/16/tom-cruise-scientology- vi_n_81773.html or http://tinyurl.com/2ygu6s ). Those guys are following the take-no-prisoners, all-glory-to-the-reich, fascist- style credo and putting some serious money behind it (and check out those snappy military salutes!). Anyway, as you point out, Maharishi apparently just wanted to be around pomp and ceremony and as many shiny things as possible; and, unfortunately, just like so many folks who amass gobs of money and need to show it. That doesn't jibe with my own sense of elegant design, and to me seems to be a contradiction to the appealing simplicity of his original message and the elegance of the meditation itself. Thanks for all your postings; haven't posted much myself recently just because you and several others here have been articulating far better than I could my own feelings and thoughts. I'm more or less a Curtis dittohead. Marek
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I've never seen a better critique of TMO esthetics. You're certainly right
about the popular culture it comes from, which I realized for the first time
when I lived in India. Seeing a beat-up truck decorated with all the
glittering gods and goddesses is somehow charming. But it loses its charm in
the context of the TMO.
- Original Message
From: Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:36:03 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Comment below:
**
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ ... wrote:
And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all
of us
thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving,
expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient,
and
enlightened?
This is excellent Edg. Promises go both ways in non abusive
relationships. I think if we had been a bit older we could have
seen
that he was just winging it all and not take it all so seriously.
But
youth wants absolutes and he served us a plate full! I remember
Vincent Snell in Yugoslavia telling me that MMY tends to be overly
optimistic, with a wry, knowing look. I didn't get it then, but
I do
now. He wasn't a kid when he met MMY, so he had the salt shaker of
age to see MMY in more realistic terms.
He broke his promises, all of them to some degree, to us long,
long,
decades ago, when money became the TMO's bottom line.
My new pet theory is that MMY was trying to re-create the grandeur
that he felt in Joitir Math with Guru Dev. He was locked out of
that
possibility by caste, so he created his own kingdom with golden
hats
and the showy splendor of his youth.
**snip to end**
Curtis, this last paragraph of yours (above) sounds about right to
me. One thing that always bothered me (particularly as an artist)
was just how unappealing Maharishi's aesthetics were. Of course, in
matters of taste there can be no dispute, and Maharishi comes out of
a popular culture of excess and grandiosity, which I can personally
really get into; but the aesthetic of the TMO is a peculiar amalgam
of rococo and blandness that has neither elegance nor power, and it
comes directly from Maharishi, of course. It's not even as
interesting as what Trump does, or what you'd see in an old-time
Masonic temple, nor as scarily Mussolini-esqe as Scientology' s take
on pomp, pageantry and power (check out the set in this 24-second
video of Tom C. at a Scientology awards ceremony:
http://www.huffingt onpost.com/ 2008/01/16/ tom-cruise- scientology-
vi_n_81773.html or http://tinyurl. com/2ygu6s ). Those guys
are following the take-no-prisoners, all-glory-to- the-reich, fascist-
style credo and putting some serious money behind it (and check out
those snappy military salutes!).
Anyway, as you point out, Maharishi apparently just wanted to be
around pomp and ceremony and as many shiny things as possible; and,
unfortunately, just like so many folks who amass gobs of money and
need to show it. That doesn't jibe with my own sense of elegant
design, and to me seems to be a contradiction to the appealing
simplicity of his original message and the elegance of the
meditation itself.
Thanks for all your postings; haven't posted much myself recently
just because you and several others here have been articulating far
better than I could my own feelings and thoughts. I'm more or less
a Curtis dittohead.
Marek
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip One thing that always bothered me (particularly as an artist) was just how unappealing Maharishi's aesthetics were. Of course, in matters of taste there can be no dispute, and Maharishi comes out of a popular culture of excess and grandiosity, which I can personally really get into; but the aesthetic of the TMO is a peculiar amalgam of rococo and blandness that has neither elegance nor power, and it comes directly from Maharishi, of course. Who isn't an artist... I agree with your critique of the aesthetic. On the other hand, it seems to me entirely possible that the blandness has been intentional, an attempt to strike a middle ground that would appeal to, or at least not repel, the greatest number of people. Maybe if he *were* an artist, or had access to artists who understood what he was aiming for, the aesthetic would have had more elegance and power, even if restrained.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Have to disagree here. I don't recall MMY making any of these promises, still less an oath. That was just your projection. When you say all of us, you mean yourself, right? --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ ... wrote: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Judy, Anyone with the artistic power to take Maharishi's ideas and make them visually tasty would be long gone from the movement -- making money like Bloomfield, Grey, DeAngelis, and Chopra. Maharishi's nitpicking drives away any skilled and creative types who cannot generally handle someone making them color between another's lines. And, from my POV, it would take a real world class artist to use such a restricted palette with much successpossible, but it's unlikely to inspire an artist for much more than one attempt. I don't know where Maharishi got his taste. Given the bright colors of typical Indian religious art, you'd think MUM publications would look like Hawaiian shirts made in Haiti designed by Japanese cartoonists. Go figure. That, and the fact that the first MIU catalog made such a big deal about the brain vibes of the artist being echoed in the brains of the viewers, makes you wonder why the covers of TMO publications don't cut it intuitively like, say, gazing for the first time at, okay, how about the Taj Mahal? You'd think that an enlightened man's color choices etc. would knock off our socks instead of make us shudder at the thought of opening the book. They said merely reading the catalog would take a person 10% more towards enlightenment. You know, the catalog was such a work of art, see? Remember that? Geeze. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: snip One thing that always bothered me (particularly as an artist) was just how unappealing Maharishi's aesthetics were. Of course, in matters of taste there can be no dispute, and Maharishi comes out of a popular culture of excess and grandiosity, which I can personally really get into; but the aesthetic of the TMO is a peculiar amalgam of rococo and blandness that has neither elegance nor power, and it comes directly from Maharishi, of course. Who isn't an artist... I agree with your critique of the aesthetic. On the other hand, it seems to me entirely possible that the blandness has been intentional, an attempt to strike a middle ground that would appeal to, or at least not repel, the greatest number of people. Maybe if he *were* an artist, or had access to artists who understood what he was aiming for, the aesthetic would have had more elegance and power, even if restrained.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Fester -- you still talking to me? You talkin' to me? Yeah, it was my projection. A person's presentation is a deep promise. Come at me wearing a clown suit, and I expect laughs aplenty -- come at me in a dhoti, and, like every fool on earth, I expect a pure simple soul radiant with love and wisdom and charity and inspirational words and not a single bit of interest in money. John Black once asked me when I wondered aloud about the concept of having a personal guru and did Maharishi fill that bill for us, Oh, Edg, are you telling me that Maharishi isn't your guru? I was ashamed -- he was right -- everyone within earshot knew that we'd accepted Maharishi as a personal guru -- not merely a teacher. Lurk, am I to be kind to Fester too, or just Richard? Life is so hard. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have to disagree here. I don't recall MMY making any of these promises, still less an oath. That was just your projection. When you say all of us, you mean yourself, right? --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ ... wrote: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I thought that comment was from Curtis, not from you. Unlike many people on this board, I don't feel let down or somehow betrayed by MMY. He gave a wonderful gift for those who were able to receive it. At least you've replied without using any obscenities, so perhaps there is some hope for you yet. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fester -- you still talking to me? You talkin' to me? Yeah, it was my projection. A person's presentation is a deep promise. Come at me wearing a clown suit, and I expect laughs aplenty -- come at me in a dhoti, and, like every fool on earth, I expect a pure simple soul radiant with love and wisdom and charity and inspirational words and not a single bit of interest in money. John Black once asked me when I wondered aloud about the concept of having a personal guru and did Maharishi fill that bill for us, Oh, Edg, are you telling me that Maharishi isn't your guru? I was ashamed -- he was right -- everyone within earshot knew that we'd accepted Maharishi as a personal guru -- not merely a teacher. Lurk, am I to be kind to Fester too, or just Richard? Life is so hard. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Have to disagree here. I don't recall MMY making any of these promises, still less an oath. That was just your projection. When you say all of us, you mean yourself, right? --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ ... wrote: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have to disagree here. I don't recall MMY making any of these promises, still less an oath. That was just your projection. When you say all of us, you mean yourself, right? Come to sidhaland and work as a slave for 3 years and you will master the sidhis. That was one that comes to mind. 6-7 years is our common experience for getting to CC No projection, specific untrue statements. --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ ... wrote: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened?
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:51 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge --- In HYPERLINK mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have to disagree here. I don't recall MMY making any of these promises, still less an oath. That was just your projection. When you say all of us, you mean yourself, right? Come to sidhaland and work as a slave for 3 years and you will master the sidhis. That was one that comes to mind. 6-7 years is our common experience for getting to CC No projection, specific untrue statements. Also, at the end of the Amherst course, when he was trying to convince everyone to move to FF, he said, “If you move to Fairfield, I will assume personal responsibility for your evolution.” No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008 7:32 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues feste37 feste37@ wrote: Have to disagree here. I don't recall MMY making any of these promises, still less an oath. That was just your projection. When you say all of us, you mean yourself, right? Come to sidhaland and work as a slave for 3 years and you will master the sidhis. That was one that comes to mind. 6-7 years is our common experience for getting to CC No projection, specific untrue statements. Also, at the end of the Amherst course, when he was trying to convince everyone to move to FF, he said, If you move to Fairfield, I will assume personal responsibility for your evolution. Except that these weren't the promises Feste was referring to. He was responding specifically to this from Edg: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Also, at the end of the Amherst course, when he was trying to convince everyone to move to FF, he said, If you move to Fairfield, I will assume personal responsibility for your evolution. Finnish your MIU degree and then go to phase III after taking phase I in Forest Academy and doing Phase II in the Summer. Then canceling our phase I credit so we had to pay for it again and do all of the Phase II field work again. 3 years labor for TTC (unless the facility runs out of money and then you have to work another 9 months. (that was my situation. All this is not to dig up the past. I was just responding to the idea that commitments are two way in functional relationships. For MMY it was always one way. I wised up and grew up. I was a teenager when I got into TM and MMY was an adult. There are many businesses run on the naiveté of the young. But it was no projection on my part to say that MMY made and broke plenty of agreements with me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:51 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge --- In HYPERLINK mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: Have to disagree here. I don't recall MMY making any of these promises, still less an oath. That was just your projection. When you say all of us, you mean yourself, right? Come to sidhaland and work as a slave for 3 years and you will master the sidhis. That was one that comes to mind. 6-7 years is our common experience for getting to CC No projection, specific untrue statements. Also, at the end of the Amherst course, when he was trying to convince everyone to move to FF, he said, If you move to Fairfield, I will assume personal responsibility for your evolution. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008 7:32 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lurk, am I to be kind to Fester too, or just Richard? Life is so hard Feste's kind of a drive by poster. One comment and you see his tailights rounding the corner.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Then there was the cancelling of the ATR credit. Wasn’t that a sort of pledge? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008 7:32 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
There's another way of looking at that, Lurk. I don't believe in endless wrangling, with post after post going on about the same issue. I make my point and allow the other person to make his or her point, without feeling that I have to endlessly answer people in order that my arguments should prevail. No one on this board ever changes their mind about anything; it's just a forum that allows people to express an opinion, that's all. One post is usually all it takes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Lurk, am I to be kind to Fester too, or just Richard? Life is so hard Feste's kind of a drive by poster. One comment and you see his tailights rounding the corner.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
How about: Children who get their walking mantra at 5 years old, sitting technique at 10 years old, will be enlightened by 18 years old. TM initiators should think only two years for them to get to CC. Bevan: come to FF or a nuclear war will start. Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment The work is done. It all sounds like Mission Accomplished to me. Er, now, that is. Before, it was buttah. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then there was the cancelling of the ATR credit. Wasn't that a sort of pledge? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008 7:32 PM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
On Jan 19, 2008, at 1:44 PM, authfriend wrote: Except that these weren't the promises Feste was referring to. He was responding specifically to this from Edg: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened? Well you be the judge, Judy. (Hey, Judge Judy! Must have been a freudian slip.) When you think of the present-day TMO (and even the one years back) do the words honest, wise and loving, immediately leap to mind? :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's another way of looking at that, Lurk. snip One post is usually all it takes. A little dab'll do ya. It's true.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 19, 2008, at 1:44 PM, authfriend wrote: Except that these weren't the promises Feste was referring to. He was responding specifically to this from Edg: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened? Well you be the judge, Judy. (Hey, Judge Judy! Must have been a freudian slip.) When you think of the present-day TMO (and even the one years back) do the words honest, wise and loving, immediately leap to mind? :) Nope, but that wasn't the point...
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I don't know about many of these, but I can tell you for sure that Bevan Morris never said, come to FF or a nuclear war will start. He is not stupid. He chose his words carefully. I remember it well. Some people did get the wrong idea, along the lines of what you quote, and spread it around, and Bevan specifically and in public asked them to call all the people they had told this to and tell them they had been mistaken -- that they had got the message wrong. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about: Children who get their walking mantra at 5 years old, sitting technique at 10 years old, will be enlightened by 18 years old. TM initiators should think only two years for them to get to CC. Bevan: come to FF or a nuclear war will start. Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment The work is done. It all sounds like Mission Accomplished to me. Er, now, that is. Before, it was buttah. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Then there was the cancelling of the ATR credit. Wasn't that a sort of pledge? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.7/1232 - Release Date: 1/18/2008 7:32 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---I don't see where bashing comes in. It's more like an evaluation and conclusion(s) based on the available facts, when it comes to The Mahareeshee. But Bevan, Hagelin, and the Rajas are fair game for bashing. Let the games begin!. If the TM movement *really* wanted to raise millions of dollars for its projects, all it would have to do is set up booths in Fairfield where Bevan and Hagelin and the Rajas would allow themselves to be bashed *physically* with big foam bats, or have pies (or, being Iowa, cow-pies) thrown at them, or whatever. They'd be over the top on their fundraising goals in no time. :-) In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: Curtis wrote: What exactly is your beef with ex-teachers? That they like to bash the Marshy? That helps a bit, thanks. Funny I always assumed your were goofing on him by calling him Marshy. A marsh is kind of a murky place. Does your concept of bashing him include treating him like a flawed human like you and me? When I say that I believe he is mistaken about human consciousness, is that bashing? I am trying to find out where you are drawing your lines. I assume that any discussion about women claiming to have banged him would be bashing, or at the very least mashing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to. And thank you for not disclosing it to us. Court (public) records are one thing but disclosing something you did in confidence doesn't prove you're an honorable person. I disagree completely. What you are doing here is repeating a meme that was implanted by MMY and by the TM movement to protect its unique secrets (which aren't really secret, or unique) and to protect its leaders when they fuck up and lie. What you say above is the argument *against* whistleblowers. Those who want to prevent the whistle being blown on them have *always* tried to portray the whistleblowers as somehow dishon- orable. They aren't.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curtis wrote: What exactly is your beef with ex-teachers? That they like to bash the Marshy? That they are unable to keep a promise ?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Blake's opinion too, as I said in another post, Turq, but someone corrected me
and said, not necessarily. Seems to me the guru worthy of name understands
this and builds in some sort of failsafe. But it's one of those questions that
can be discussed forever. Are religions necessary? If so, what are the
dangers? What are the benefits?
- Original Message
From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:40:19 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, The Secret [EMAIL
PROTECTED] .. wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
snip
You
are mixing up the story teachers told meditators and what we believed
ourselves.
Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women
who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life
differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't
quite appreciate it? The expansion of this theme is fathers and
mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers still being treated as children
once they enter Campus. Then again, perhaps recertified Governors are
also still treated as though they were children and some of them don't
appreciate it.
*Everyone* in the TM movement is treated as a
child. It's been that way since Day One, with
only one Daddy in sight.
*No one* is allowed to grow up and have an
opinion on life, the universe, and how every-
thing works that is as valid and as right as
Maharishi's. No one. To pretend otherwise is
to deny the obvious reality of the situation.
And if you think I'm wrong, just try spouting
off in public about your private theory of X
that deviates from Maharishi's theory of X and
see how long you last.
Judging from what has happened in other spiritual
movements when their leader died, the definitions
of what is right and what is wrong will become
even *more* concrete and *more* enforced with the
passing of Maharishi. People who consider them-
selves the leaders of the movement will compile
catechism-like books of Maharishi's quotes that
seem to support the rules they'd like to impose
on everyone the same way they impose them on them-
selves, and they'll develop hit squads whose job
it is to enforce them, primarily through official
inclusion in the group vs. exclusion. Those who
follow the rules are allowed to stay; those who
deviate are out, toast, no longer a part of things.
As far as I can tell, there has never been a spir-
itual movement in history that became less funda-
mentalist when its leader passed away. They've all
become *more* fundamentalist, at least for a few
decades or centuries. And I expect the same to be
true of the TM movement as well.
In other words, those who hope here for a gentler,
kinder TMO just haven't looked at the lessons of
history and learned from them.
IMO, of course.
!--
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Richard J. Williams wrote: That some bowed down and recited an oath and some signed a pledge, collected money for instruction, and then, after thirty years, went on the internet to spread rumors about their guru's private sex life, and denied their own complicity, and bashed the Marshy when he got to be over ninety years old and they felt they didn't need him anymore? Edg: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened? He broke his promises, all of them to some degree, to us long, long, decades ago, when money became the TMO's bottom line. I vote that we all write letters to Maharishi to make Richard an honorary party hat guy. Oh, wait, it seems Richard already thoroughly thinks that that has already happened. Richard, does ya wear the crown proudly in yer jammys? Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Curtis wrote: What exactly is your beef with ex-teachers? That they like to bash the Marshy? Nabby wrote: That they are unable to keep a promise? That some bowed down and recited an oath and some signed a pledge, collected money for instruction, and then, after thirty years, went on the internet to spread rumors about their guru's private sex life, and denied their own complicity, and bashed the Marshy when he got to be over ninety years old and they felt they didn't need him anymore?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Blake's opinion too, as I said in another post, Turq, but someone
corrected me and said, not necessarily. Seems to me the guru
worthy of name understands this and builds in some sort of
failsafe. But it's one of those questions that can be discussed
forever. Are religions necessary? If so, what are the dangers?
What are the benefits?
Religion is what happens to spirituality when
all the energy is drained from it. That is,
when the teacher who was enlightened and
provided the link to the energy kicks the
bucket.
Religion is the attempt by those who are left
behind to reconnect with that energy. And it
almost always fails. People try to codify the
things that seemed to work for them while the
enlightened teacher/energy circuit was still
around and available to them. But they don't
really work, so it becomes an exercise in
frustration, which the survivors tend to think
of as being a test of their faith.
I don't think that there is any possible fail
safe mechanism *except* leaving a bunch of
your followers enlightened. so that they have
their own conduit to the energy they seek. If
that happens, the tradition can continue to
be useful. If it doesn't happen, then the trad-
ition is passing along dead knowledge.
IMO, that is. But not only mine. Maharishi
himself used to talk about this phenomenon, as
the tragedy of knowledge.
- Original Message
From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:40:19 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, The Secret
L.Shaddai@ .. wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
snip
You
are mixing up the story teachers told meditators and what we
believed
ourselves.
Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women
who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life
differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't
quite appreciate it? The expansion of this theme is fathers and
mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers still being treated as children
once they enter Campus. Then again, perhaps recertified Governors are
also still treated as though they were children and some of them don't
appreciate it.
*Everyone* in the TM movement is treated as a
child. It's been that way since Day One, with
only one Daddy in sight.
*No one* is allowed to grow up and have an
opinion on life, the universe, and how every-
thing works that is as valid and as right as
Maharishi's. No one. To pretend otherwise is
to deny the obvious reality of the situation.
And if you think I'm wrong, just try spouting
off in public about your private theory of X
that deviates from Maharishi's theory of X and
see how long you last.
Judging from what has happened in other spiritual
movements when their leader died, the definitions
of what is right and what is wrong will become
even *more* concrete and *more* enforced with the
passing of Maharishi. People who consider them-
selves the leaders of the movement will compile
catechism-like books of Maharishi's quotes that
seem to support the rules they'd like to impose
on everyone the same way they impose them on them-
selves, and they'll develop hit squads whose job
it is to enforce them, primarily through official
inclusion in the group vs. exclusion. Those who
follow the rules are allowed to stay; those who
deviate are out, toast, no longer a part of things.
As far as I can tell, there has never been a spir-
itual movement in history that became less funda-
mentalist when its leader passed away. They've all
become *more* fundamentalist, at least for a few
decades or centuries. And I expect the same to be
true of the TM movement as well.
In other words, those who hope here for a gentler,
kinder TMO just haven't looked at the lessons of
history and learned from them.
IMO, of course.
!--
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Yes, those are pretty much all the negative aspects of religion. I could add that as things get calcified and folks are trapped in the small self, they also come to doubt the reality of the transcendent and its power. But what are the good aspects of religion? Are there any? I can think of two or three: 1. Even the calcified model can serve someone who is truly inspired to breathe life into it once again. So it is a way, imperfect as it is, to perpetuate knowledge in times of darkness. 2. At their best, religions create communities and stabilize family structure as a basis for community. Of course, this is a double edged sword, since communities (in a state of near-calcification) create us-them mentalities. 3. We want diversity in communities, but when diversity gets out of balance (and you have a collection of diverse and hardened egos), educational systems, legal systems, health care systems, political systems, etc. have a hard time delivering quality. Religion tends to establish some degree of homogeneity for communities to be functional bodies moving in some desired direction to benefit the whole. - Original Message From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:37:06 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ ... wrote: Blake's opinion too, as I said in another post, Turq, but someone corrected me and said, not necessarily. Seems to me the guru worthy of name understands this and builds in some sort of failsafe. But it's one of those questions that can be discussed forever. Are religions necessary? If so, what are the dangers? What are the benefits? Religion is what happens to spirituality when all the energy is drained from it. That is, when the teacher who was enlightened and provided the link to the energy kicks the bucket. Religion is the attempt by those who are left behind to reconnect with that energy. And it almost always fails. People try to codify the things that seemed to work for them while the enlightened teacher/energy circuit was still around and available to them. But they don't really work, so it becomes an exercise in frustration, which the survivors tend to think of as being a test of their faith. I don't think that there is any possible fail safe mechanism *except* leaving a bunch of your followers enlightened. so that they have their own conduit to the energy they seek. If that happens, the tradition can continue to be useful. If it doesn't happen, then the trad- ition is passing along dead knowledge. IMO, that is. But not only mine. Maharishi himself used to talk about this phenomenon, as the tragedy of knowledge. - Original Message From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com To: FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 1:40:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, The Secret L.Shaddai@ .. wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip You are mixing up the story teachers told meditators and what we believed ourselves. Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't quite appreciate it? The expansion of this theme is fathers and mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers still being treated as children once they enter Campus. Then again, perhaps recertified Governors are also still treated as though they were children and some of them don't appreciate it. *Everyone* in the TM movement is treated as a child. It's been that way since Day One, with only one Daddy in sight. *No one* is allowed to grow up and have an opinion on life, the universe, and how every- thing works that is as valid and as right as Maharishi's. No one. To pretend otherwise is to deny the obvious reality of the situation. And if you think I'm wrong, just try spouting off in public about your private theory of X that deviates from Maharishi's theory of X and see how long you last. Judging from what has happened in other spiritual movements when their leader died, the definitions of what is right and what is wrong will become even *more* concrete and *more* enforced with the passing of Maharishi. People who consider them- selves the leaders of the movement will compile catechism-like books of Maharishi's quotes that seem to support the rules they'd like to impose
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened? This is excellent Edg. Promises go both ways in non abusive relationships. I think if we had been a bit older we could have seen that he was just winging it all and not take it all so seriously. But youth wants absolutes and he served us a plate full! I remember Vincent Snell in Yugoslavia telling me that MMY tends to be overly optimistic, with a wry, knowing look. I didn't get it then, but I do now. He wasn't a kid when he met MMY, so he had the salt shaker of age to see MMY in more realistic terms. He broke his promises, all of them to some degree, to us long, long, decades ago, when money became the TMO's bottom line. My new pet theory is that MMY was trying to re-create the grandeur that he felt in Joitir Math with Guru Dev. He was locked out of that possibility by caste, so he created his own kingdom with golden hats and the showy splendor of his youth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard J. Williams wrote: That some bowed down and recited an oath and some signed a pledge, collected money for instruction, and then, after thirty years, went on the internet to spread rumors about their guru's private sex life, and denied their own complicity, and bashed the Marshy when he got to be over ninety years old and they felt they didn't need him anymore? Edg: And what of Mararishi's oath to us? You know, that promise all of us thought was made by him to be pure, honest, whole, wise, loving, expansive, simple, scientific, scholarly, traditional, ancient, and enlightened? He broke his promises, all of them to some degree, to us long, long, decades ago, when money became the TMO's bottom line. I vote that we all write letters to Maharishi to make Richard an honorary party hat guy. Oh, wait, it seems Richard already thoroughly thinks that that has already happened. Richard, does ya wear the crown proudly in yer jammys? Edg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to. I signed this pledge one year later in Seelisburg, 1973 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Peter wrote: --- BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to. I signed this pledge one year later in Seelisburg, 1973 And you received a copy of what you signed?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
---For those of you unaware of the Pledge, I'm pasting it in (below). Please read, sign, and send in your pledge to Tom. Quote: In the United States, which was once thought to be a haven of religious liberty, we are the targets of unprincipled attacks in the court system by those who would line their pockets from our hard won coffers. Bigots in all branches of government, fearing the success of Scientology, are bent on our destruction through taxation and repressive legislation. We have been subjected to illegal heresy trials in two countries before prejudiced and malinformed judges who are not qualified or inclined to perceive the truth. In Canada and Germany, our Churches have been subjected to vicious raids reminiscent of the historical genocide attacks on religions that took place in `less informed' times and societies. The news media chooses to ignore the good works and miraculous successes of Scientology and instead seeks to poison public opinion through vilification of the religion and its Founder. The detractors of Scientology know full well that it is a proven, effective and workable system for freeing mankind from spiritual bondage. That is why they attack. They fear that they will somehow be threatened by a society which is more ethical, productive and humane through the influence of Scientology and Scientologists. Thus when we expand, to that degree we are attacked. Up to this day, the responsibility for defending Scientology has been on the shoulders of a desperate few. And so it will continue in large measure. Yet, in order to continue the quest for a new civilization where honest men have rights and freedoms abound, the assistance and dedication of each and every Scientologist and other men of goodwill is essential. The road may be difficult and may get worse due to the rapid decline of civilization and erosion of personal liberties at this time. But united in purpose and dedication, we shall prevail for the benefit of all mankind. We, the undersigned, pledge ourselves, without reservation or any thought of personal comfort or safety, to achieving the aims of Scientology: `A civilization without insanity, without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where Man is free to rise to greater heights.' We invite Scientologists and other well intentioned people everywhere to join us in this pledge End quote. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:09 PM, abutilon108 wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. Declaration of Loyalty to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (to be signed by the teacher of TM) It is my privilege Maharishi, to promise to teach the Principles and Practice of Transcendental Meditation only as a teacher-employee of which accepts me as such, that I will always hold the teaching in trust for you, dear Maharishi, and that I will never use the teaching except as teacher in or other organizations founded by you for the purpose of carrying on our work of spreading Transcendental Meditation for the good of mankind; that as a teacher in I shall receive such compensation as shall be agreed between and myself in writing and except as agreed in writing I expect to receive no monetary compensation but am fully compensated by the love and joy I receive from the work by the alleviation of suffering that I may accomplish and by the wisdom I obtain, expulsate and cherish. In furtherance of this pledge I acknowledge that prior to receiving the training I had no prior knowledge of such system of Teaching; that there is no other available source where the knowledge of such training may be obtained; that such teaching has been imparted to me in trust and confidence; that such training is secret and unique. I further recognize as a Meditation Guide and Initiator I am a link in the chain of organizations that you have founded, and that to retain the purity of the teaching and movement you have laid down the wise rule that, should I ever cease to teach in or other organizations founded by you, for the purpose of teaching Transcendental Meditation, I may be restrained by appropriate process from using this secret teaching and Transcendental Meditation imparted to me. It is my fortune Guru Dev that I am being accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your alter Guru Dev that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organizations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. JAI GURU DEV
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 abutilon108@ wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about? No idea, but it reminds me of a funny draft story from the late 60s. A fellow I knew got his draft notice and went to the Induction Center and they handed him his folder to carry with him as he walked through the physical and all the steps of being inducted into the Army. He started looking through the folder, noticing that everything in it was an original, not a copy, and slowly it dawned on him that not only was this his folder, it was *his folder*. It was the original. Taking a chance that it was not only the original copy but the only copy, he just stepped out of line, went back to the dressing room, put on his clothes, and walked out, still carrying his folder. He never heard from Selective Service again. Never. He just fell off their radar. Fortunately, this was before the era of personal computers, so I guess in his area everything was handled via paper, and no one had ever considered the possibility that someone, handed his entire folder, would just walk out with it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:06 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? Curtis, I was going to ask if you had split before they started doing that. They had you sign these things filled with leagalese that went on for about 5 pages as I recall. Very weird. And they had you sign one again before each course. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
---To my great surprise, my group leader at Humboldt 70 (Tom Winquist, an initiate of MMY), already had a dossier on me in which it correctly revealed that I had been initiated into Eckankar. Whoops!a serious strike against me from the get-go. A few years later, I got fired from SIMS for talking about Guru Maharaji and other non-TMO teachers. I was also threatened with legal action by the official TMO lawyer. In my naivete, I wrongly assumed that people would embrace information in general; and then formulate some conclusion on their own. Nope...this would be like spreading knowledge of natural supplements among a group of pharmaceutical drug pushers. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 abutilon108@ wrote: I signed the pledge much later on and I'm quite sure the wording was different. It seems not everyone would have signed the same pledge, although as I remember what you were agreeing to was pretty much the same. The later versions, like the one I signed, had the phrase that said the movement could seek financial equitable relief if you spilled any of the beans. Nice to have a little legal threat along with the spiritual stuff before you get your mantras! No copies were allowed to be kept of any legal document I ever signed in the movement. Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
So your point is to underwhelm and disappoint those of us who chose not to go this route? This is so gentle and sweet compared to the way the Houston TM Center under Jane Hopson operated and with the way the Course Office used to handle applications to the Course Office. Lovely, you manage to get to a phone, you run up what was then a fantastic phone bill calling at 2:15, 2:30, 2:45, 3:00, 3:15, 4:00 and got This is the course office. Our office hours are 2 PM to 5 PM Monday through Friday, ... or the slamming of the Dome doors in your face (which was stopped because my landlady pulled out a piece of paper, wrote up a petition, was beckoned to the Star Chamber at DEVCO, told that this was very disrespectful but hanceforth anyone within slight of the door closer got in). What a letdown. I had always envisioned something more like the Schutzstaffel might have pledged in their castle. Was the truculence, nastiness and caprice of certain governors and the MUM administration the result of another pledge or just an individual power trip. OTOH, perhaps I'm reading too much into it. I learned last night that FF has no requirements for what constitutes a carpenter, electrician (my places has a floating ground, I'm sure) or even a habitable building until very recently landlords have to have the property inspected, by the very same people who don't know what a grounding rod is. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: Malnak v. Yogi U.S. District Court, District of New Jersey, Civil Action No. 76-341 Kropinski v. Yogi U.S. District Court, District of Columbia, Consolidated Civil Action Nos. 85-2848-852854
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Well, if you're going on CCP or IA, no forms to sign. Just fill out contact information. We could be going any direction now that Maharishi (whom I heard acted in a paranoid fashion at times and I've known some of his local, volunteer attorneys and they could file a writ so fast) has retired and is walking into the sunset. Indeed they have a file on you. I know that there are databases but there may still be paper files. They can quote you dates and times you said or did what. Then again the FF police have been observed to patrol campus in the evening with great interest and a place that's wide open in the town of the fruits and nuts is of special concern to the FF PD and of course to MUM. Remember, murder, trips from Dome to Mt. Pleasant, lawsuits over lawful death and over failure to prevent one of killing. This is not the Ottumwa ladies book club we're talking about. I said to the cashier, who was dressed and acted like an elder member of Campus if perhaps he belonged to the same group as I did. What group is that?, he asked. Meditator. No, not that. Well I don't hold it against you and expect you don't hold it against me. I don't but I don't like pedophiles. So while Tom Traynor assures me that the town people are us, I can assure him that there's a steamy underbelly to FF which is us and a steamy underbelly to FF which is not us and not all townies look at us with just bemusement. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 abutilon108@ wrote: snip Do they still have you sign legal waivers before courses? They did something really odd right before we became teachers. They had us hold our movement file which we were not allowed to look into. But we had to hold it. It was supposed to contain every course we were on, all recommendation letters etc. I wonder what that was all about? Perhaps it was a message we have a file on you, so be cool MF. But I suspect they were following the letter rather than the spirit of some disclosure law. Very interesting, does anyone know what that was about?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Snip What's nuts is that they apparently spouted the TM puja without even understanding what they were muttering. Teachers memorized and were tested on the English meaning as well as the feelings associated with the phrases. But the thing that amazes me is that they would spout these oaths and then turn their back on their own guru, claiming now that they never believed in the Hindu demi-Gods. Who are you talking about? I always believed in the Hindu Gods when I was involved. On all levels, from the supposed natural law they represented to the being who received pujas and offered blessings. As far as spouting an oath and then turning my back on MMY...have you ever changed your mind about anything you believed in your 20's as you grew up? What a bunch of weird individuals. They promised us enlightenment in 5-7 years, and it's been what, forty years? So what did you pay, $35? $100? Send me your mantra and I'll give you a prorated refund. How long have you been using it so I can figure out the depreciation. Obviously, there's a lot of difference between a devotee and a dilettante! So, I guess most, if not all, of the so-called ex-TM teachers posting here were mere pretenders. Frankly, I can't understand what they were thinking back then. You either believe in something when you 'bow down' or you're a crank, a fake, a fakir, or a mere poseur. Now they say they were lying, conned by the Marshy, hypnotized, and taken advantage of by the 'TMO'. Who are you talking about, or is this more of a generalized rant? You are mixing up the story teachers told meditators and what we believed ourselves. My Gawd, Billy, they ARE the TMO. I don't thank any poster here still represents the movement in an official capacity do they? You've been on kind of a theme today Richard, but I can't really figure out what you are getting at. I never understand where you are coming from. Are you pro TM? Are you against TM teachers? Do you really believe that meditation just means thinking so we are all meditators who transcend with or without TM? Do you practice TM? You are one mysterious dude. What exactly is your beef with ex-teachers? Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental From: Idaho Spudboy Date: Sat, Aug 10 2002 8:58 pm Subject: Full TM Puja http://tinyurl.com/2aep8o Offering a handful of flowers to the lotus feet of SHRI GURU DEV, I bow down.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret L.Shaddai@ wrote: Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't quite appreciate it? Yes, I agree. I'm sure I came off as a complete ass to many people too polite to call me on my bullshit when I was teaching TM. Makes me cringe just thinking about it! Curtis, Thank you kindly for that. Closure. Finally. May I buy you a warm drink? I tend to attract doctors around me on courses and one psychiatrist I knew well in one of my groups said in his very southern drawl that y'all reminded him of young preachers, so full of something. He was being very kind. When I keep picking up Henry, son of a neurologist seemingly at random as he walked the side of the road or hitchhiked, when a woman cam back as a yogic flyer and had a mysterous room where she did these mysterious things and acted like goddess of the Universe, well y'all definitely came across, uh, strange. Behind your backs we debated whether or not this particular practice of voodoo was what we wanted to be involved with. At least some of you had a sense of humor about it. Telling jokes like how do you spot a TM teacher? He's the one with the $100 suit and the $100 car.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:26 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge Yes, I agree. I'm sure I came off as a complete ass to many people too polite to call me on my bullshit when I was teaching TM. Makes me cringe just thinking about it! I can relate. I was stark raving loony at times, and speaking in public! No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 1/16/2008 9:01 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip You are mixing up the story teachers told meditators and what we believed ourselves. Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't quite appreciate it? Yes, I agree. I'm sure I came off as a complete ass to many people too polite to call me on my bullshit when I was teaching TM. Makes me cringe just thinking about it! The expansion of this theme is fathers and mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers still being treated as children once they enter Campus. Then again, perhaps recertified Governors are also still treated as though they were children and some of them don't appreciate it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip You are mixing up the story teachers told meditators and what we believed ourselves. Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't quite appreciate it? The expansion of this theme is fathers and mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers still being treated as children once they enter Campus. Then again, perhaps recertified Governors are also still treated as though they were children and some of them don't appreciate it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Richard J. Williams wrote: The TMers Pledge Billy wrote: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to. This is nuts, Billy. You TM teachers made a pledge every single time you recited the puja to Guru Dev. In your case that must have been thousands of times. But I wonder if the claims to TMO status made here by some of these back- slider TM teachers can even understand Sanskrit. What's nuts is that they apparently spouted the TM puja without even understanding what they were muttering. But the thing that amazes me is that they would spout these oaths and then turn their back on their own guru, claiming now that they never believed in the Hindu demi-Gods. What a bunch of weird individuals. They promised us enlightenment in 5-7 years, and it's been what, forty years? Obviously, there's a lot of difference between a devotee and a dilettante! So, I guess most, if not all, of the so-called ex-TM teachers posting here were mere pretenders. Frankly, I can't understand what they were thinking back then. You either believe in something when you 'bow down' or you're a crank, a fake, a fakir, or a mere poseur. Now they say they were lying, conned by the Marshy, hypnotized, and taken advantage of by the 'TMO'. My Gawd, Billy, they ARE the TMO. Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental From: Idaho Spudboy Date: Sat, Aug 10 2002 8:58 pm Subject: Full TM Puja http://tinyurl.com/2aep8o Offering a handful of flowers to the lotus feet of SHRI GURU DEV, I bow down.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I like to sum up my exit from the movement as going from the Age of Enlightenment into the Age of Embarrassment! I was earnest and I loved my participation when I was in the movement. But I sure was full of something like your Southern friend observed! Still am I'm sure, just different stuff! The difference is that with years I know how many times I have been wrong in the past. Youth has some natural arrogance/confidence built in to keep kids from curling up in a ball over what they don't know about the world. When I see it in young people it makes me feel old to understand what a double edged sward that confidence without knowledge brings. If ex TM teachers admitting to being full of themselves and BS while in TM heals you, you are in the right place. Rick has already weighed in and there will be more probably. Tonight I'm having some hard cider. I'll pour you one. So if you care to, tell us your perspective on the movement, TM. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret L.Shaddai@ wrote: Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't quite appreciate it? Yes, I agree. I'm sure I came off as a complete ass to many people too polite to call me on my bullshit when I was teaching TM. Makes me cringe just thinking about it! Curtis, Thank you kindly for that. Closure. Finally. May I buy you a warm drink? I tend to attract doctors around me on courses and one psychiatrist I knew well in one of my groups said in his very southern drawl that y'all reminded him of young preachers, so full of something. He was being very kind. When I keep picking up Henry, son of a neurologist seemingly at random as he walked the side of the road or hitchhiked, when a woman cam back as a yogic flyer and had a mysterous room where she did these mysterious things and acted like goddess of the Universe, well y'all definitely came across, uh, strange. Behind your backs we debated whether or not this particular practice of voodoo was what we wanted to be involved with. At least some of you had a sense of humor about it. Telling jokes like how do you spot a TM teacher? He's the one with the $100 suit and the $100 car.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Rick, us peons detected horniness. The women picked up these really powerful vibes from male initiators. Men felt almost engulfed by the longings of female initiators. And of course women felt vvveee strange in the presence of certain woman initiators and guys felt vvveee strange in the presence of some male initiators. I was blown away, relishing the obvious and non-obvious charms of a female initiator who told me about THE CULT OF MALE HOMOSEXUALITY AT MIU. Man, I thought she was going to kick over the table we sat opposite to each other at, me drinking coffee and having a piece of pie, her thankful that I saved a bag of mint tea from that ?tofu? lunch and wanting to wolf down that pie in front of me, plate and all. I said to myself why, me, Lord?. Then came the post 6 months course mating frenzy. I had a lady governor rip me another one when she announced that I had taken too long to propose to her and that she had to settle for HIM instead. OK, I might have flirted. I wasn't a bad looking guy, she was not a displeasing to the eye lady. But a couple of flirts is not the same as buying an option on an engagement ring. Perhaps y'all remember that us guys were back home developing our professions and were at the highest jerk (first derivative of acceleration) of our careers while y'all were somewhere in the Alps. There was a mad race for male sidhas (if you're not, we can fix that) by lady governors because they were prospering and there was an imperative at the time to marry and manufacture bodies for nearly enlightened souls to inhabit. The thought Fourth Reich comes to mind. OTOH, we had some really tense times ourselves on residences courses at the Holiday Inn. Yes, I liked to talk to the mother of one of my good friends and yes, she was nicely put together. But should we be talking in her room not wanting to put a name on the tension in the air? Of course it got even stranger. Not only were many private liaisons in those cabins at Cobb on my flying block, there was a group of cabins right up front which housed married couples. They observed a proper cocktail hour before time for the flying room. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:26 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge Yes, I agree. I'm sure I came off as a complete ass to many people too polite to call me on my bullshit when I was teaching TM. Makes me cringe just thinking about it! I can relate. I was stark raving loony at times, and speaking in public!
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Curtis wrote: What exactly is your beef with ex-teachers? That they like to bash the Marshy?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
Well, I have to be very careful here. I am having very powerful experiences in a very powerful place and of course this is a time of reverence and we are saying rosaries together, meditating together in honor of the decision of a very great man to pass on. Rick will tell you that a couple weeks ago I was a lot more critical than I am now. But when I look up at the silk flower to my left and it comes to life and I enter it and look back at myself and all of this is glorious, it's very easy to laugh off an agreement to meet at 1 PM at a certain place to drive us to lunch in town and no one shows up and I'm phoning everyone and no one answers, I encounter one of the men a few hours later trying to get some food with a friend who also has has a car. The man made the arrangements on my vmail the night before but he's not quite sure he recognizes me right now. But it's not only all good, it's absolutely divine and perfect. I would have said that TM was perhaps a dubious thing to do, with a little flash here and there but when infinity is you and all around you in all directions, it's kind of hard to come to that conclusion. I do believe that people act unkind. But then again leaving me in the lurch at 1 PM could be perceived as unkind. I had some very definite opinions about the phoniness of the TM Movement, the lack of power of the techniques, the branding of everything with an appellation one wrote for himself when sending out for stationary as a way of puffing up ones self. But we don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are. And what I see is glory and love and infinity. I seek closure for certain things, call a spade a spade when I encounter it. The TM Movement was a buffet I at times took too seriously and definitely those who hosted the buffet were capricious, at times vicious and very flaky. But I've had enough to eat, thank you. There are a couple of things that aren't fully digested off the buffet, but when you're sated you kind of lose interest in food and that buffet. That's about all I can say right now though I haven't said much of anything in a screen and a half of typing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tonight I'm having some hard cider. I'll pour you one. So if you care to, tell us your perspective on the movement, TM.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curtis wrote: What exactly is your beef with ex-teachers? That they like to bash the Marshy? That helps a bit, thanks. Funny I always assumed your were goofing on him by calling him Marshy. A marsh is kind of a murky place. Does your concept of bashing him include treating him like a flawed human like you and me? When I say that I believe he is mistaken about human consciousness, is that bashing? I am trying to find out where you are drawing your lines. I assume that any discussion about women claiming to have banged him would be bashing, or at the very least mashing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
---I don't see where bashing comes in. It's more like an evaluation and conclusion(s) based on the available facts, when it comes to The Mahareeshee. But Bevan, Hagelin, and the Rajas are fair game for bashing. Let the games begin!. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: Curtis wrote: What exactly is your beef with ex-teachers? That they like to bash the Marshy? That helps a bit, thanks. Funny I always assumed your were goofing on him by calling him Marshy. A marsh is kind of a murky place. Does your concept of bashing him include treating him like a flawed human like you and me? When I say that I believe he is mistaken about human consciousness, is that bashing? I am trying to find out where you are drawing your lines. I assume that any discussion about women claiming to have banged him would be bashing, or at the very least mashing.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
That's about all I can say right now though I haven't said much of anything in a screen and a half of typing. Thanks, I think you said plenty to satisfy a nosy person at the end of the Internet! Ever hang out at the New Melleray Cistercian Monastery in Dubuque? http://www.newmelleray.org/ Beautiful place. I used to take retreats there when I was a student at MIU in the late 70's. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I have to be very careful here. I am having very powerful experiences in a very powerful place and of course this is a time of reverence and we are saying rosaries together, meditating together in honor of the decision of a very great man to pass on. Rick will tell you that a couple weeks ago I was a lot more critical than I am now. But when I look up at the silk flower to my left and it comes to life and I enter it and look back at myself and all of this is glorious, it's very easy to laugh off an agreement to meet at 1 PM at a certain place to drive us to lunch in town and no one shows up and I'm phoning everyone and no one answers, I encounter one of the men a few hours later trying to get some food with a friend who also has has a car. The man made the arrangements on my vmail the night before but he's not quite sure he recognizes me right now. But it's not only all good, it's absolutely divine and perfect. I would have said that TM was perhaps a dubious thing to do, with a little flash here and there but when infinity is you and all around you in all directions, it's kind of hard to come to that conclusion. I do believe that people act unkind. But then again leaving me in the lurch at 1 PM could be perceived as unkind. I had some very definite opinions about the phoniness of the TM Movement, the lack of power of the techniques, the branding of everything with an appellation one wrote for himself when sending out for stationary as a way of puffing up ones self. But we don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are. And what I see is glory and love and infinity. I seek closure for certain things, call a spade a spade when I encounter it. The TM Movement was a buffet I at times took too seriously and definitely those who hosted the buffet were capricious, at times vicious and very flaky. But I've had enough to eat, thank you. There are a couple of things that aren't fully digested off the buffet, but when you're sated you kind of lose interest in food and that buffet. That's about all I can say right now though I haven't said much of anything in a screen and a half of typing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Tonight I'm having some hard cider. I'll pour you one. So if you care to, tell us your perspective on the movement, TM.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
I felt a wonderful thing, a thing of peace and joy when you mentioned the monastery I viewed the site. Very nice. But isn't heaven on earth where you are right now? Actually, though away from the fruit of the vine since December 5, I've always been kind of partial to the Christian Brothers. They have this fabulous place north of San Franciso, not so far from Cobb Mountain where they make things to warm body and soul. Every time I visited them they poured so generously and freely. G I of course favor their products because of where the profit is going to. They fund so many schools and universities. They don't follow the 1/3 or 1/2 rule. Because I attracted a bunch of Irishmen and Irishwomen into my life right now I keep a medicinal substance called Guinness in my refrigerator. I just took a look. No. Not a good time to taste of it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's about all I can say right now though I haven't said much of anything in a screen and a half of typing. Thanks, I think you said plenty to satisfy a nosy person at the end of the Internet! Ever hang out at the New Melleray Cistercian Monastery in Dubuque? http://www.newmelleray.org/ Beautiful place. I used to take retreats there when I was a student at MIU in the late 70's.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: It is my fortune, Guru Dev, that I have been accepted to serve the Holy Tradition and spread the Light of God to all those who need it. It is my joy to undertake the responsibility of representing the Holy Tradition in all its purity as it has been given to me by Maharishi and I promise on your altar, Guru Dev, that with all my heart and mind I will always work within the framework of the Organisations founded by Maharishi. And to you, Maharishi, I promise that as a Meditation Guide I will be faithful in all ways to the trust that you have placed in me. Notes for readers: Here is the TMers pledge that all graduates of TM Teacher Training are required to sign before becoming TM teachers. Source: We weren't required to sign anything in Fuiggi; though Jerry did administer a *verbal* pledge which we agreed to. And thank you for not disclosing it to us. Court (public) records are one thing but disclosing something you did in confidence doesn't prove you're an honorable person.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Curtis, I really like your phrase about the move from the Age of Enlightenment to the Age of Embarassment. It has depth, it has irony, it has humor, it has truth and insight; it has what's called poetic texture in my line of work. And here's the deal: embarrassment is prolly closer to real enlightenment than most claims of higher states of consciousness I've seen. Show me a mensch who's not embarassed to look back on his stupid life. Have you ever read Gimpel the Fool by Isaac Bashevis Singer? Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to. -- Mark Twain
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---I don't see where bashing comes in. It's more like an evaluation and conclusion(s) based on the available facts, when it comes to The Mahareeshee. But Bevan, Hagelin, and the Rajas are fair game for bashing. Let the games begin!. A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. -- Winston Churchill
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
So, you like aphorisms. You're probably a TMO or other Fundamentalist. Are you a TB? Here's a good Ginsberg quote: I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix; Angel-headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Curtis, I really like your phrase about the move from the Age of Enlightenment to the Age of Embarassment. It has depth, it has irony, it has humor, it has truth and insight; it has what's called poetic texture in my line of work. And here's the deal: embarrassment is prolly closer to real enlightenment than most claims of higher states of consciousness I've seen. Show me a mensch who's not embarassed to look back on his stupid life. Have you ever read Gimpel the Fool by Isaac Bashevis Singer? Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to. -- Mark Twain
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
No, I'm neither. - Original Message From: tertonzeno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:51:21 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge So, you like aphorisms. You're probably a TMO or other Fundamentalist. Are you a TB? Here's a good Ginsberg quote: I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked, dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix; Angel-headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night. --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Curtis, I really like your phrase about the move from the Age of Enlightenment to the Age of Embarassment. It has depth, it has irony, it has humor, it has truth and insight; it has what's called poetic texture in my line of work. And here's the deal: embarrassment is prolly closer to real enlightenment than most claims of higher states of consciousness I've seen. Show me a mensch who's not embarassed to look back on his stupid life. Have you ever read Gimpel the Fool by Isaac Bashevis Singer? Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to. -- Mark Twain Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, if you're going on CCP or IA, no forms to sign. Just fill out contact information. We could be going any direction now that Maharishi (whom I heard acted in a paranoid fashion at times and I've known some of his local, volunteer attorneys and they could file a writ so fast) has retired and is walking into the sunset. Indeed they have a file on you. I know that there are databases but there may still be paper files. They can quote you dates and times you said or did what. Then again the FF police have been observed to patrol campus in the evening with great interest and a place that's wide open in the town of the fruits and nuts is of special concern to the FF PD and of course to MUM. Remember, murder, trips from Dome to Mt. Pleasant, lawsuits over lawful death and over failure to prevent one of killing. This is not the Ottumwa ladies book club we're talking about. I said to the cashier, who was dressed and acted like an elder member of Campus if perhaps he belonged to the same group as I did. What group is that?, he asked. Meditator. No, not that. Well I don't hold it against you and expect you don't hold it against me. I don't but I don't like pedophiles. So while Tom Traynor assures me that the town people are us, I can assure him that there's a steamy underbelly to FF which is us and a steamy underbelly to FF which is not us and not all townies look at us with just bemusement. Bemusement is a good word, and a good 'tude as far as I'm concerned. The more people who laugh at us, the more likely that someday we'll learn to laugh at ourselves.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip You are mixing up the story teachers told meditators and what we believed ourselves. Can you kindly understand that the meditators were adult men and women who detected Ervig Goffman Presentation of Self in Everyday Life differences between front stage and back stage in spades and didn't quite appreciate it? The expansion of this theme is fathers and mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers still being treated as children once they enter Campus. Then again, perhaps recertified Governors are also still treated as though they were children and some of them don't appreciate it. *Everyone* in the TM movement is treated as a child. It's been that way since Day One, with only one Daddy in sight. *No one* is allowed to grow up and have an opinion on life, the universe, and how every- thing works that is as valid and as right as Maharishi's. No one. To pretend otherwise is to deny the obvious reality of the situation. And if you think I'm wrong, just try spouting off in public about your private theory of X that deviates from Maharishi's theory of X and see how long you last. Judging from what has happened in other spiritual movements when their leader died, the definitions of what is right and what is wrong will become even *more* concrete and *more* enforced with the passing of Maharishi. People who consider them- selves the leaders of the movement will compile catechism-like books of Maharishi's quotes that seem to support the rules they'd like to impose on everyone the same way they impose them on them- selves, and they'll develop hit squads whose job it is to enforce them, primarily through official inclusion in the group vs. exclusion. Those who follow the rules are allowed to stay; those who deviate are out, toast, no longer a part of things. As far as I can tell, there has never been a spir- itual movement in history that became less funda- mentalist when its leader passed away. They've all become *more* fundamentalist, at least for a few decades or centuries. And I expect the same to be true of the TM movement as well. In other words, those who hope here for a gentler, kinder TMO just haven't looked at the lessons of history and learned from them. IMO, of course.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, The Secret [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, us peons detected horniness. The women picked up these really powerful vibes from male initiators. Men felt almost engulfed by the longings of female initiators. And of course women felt vvveee strange in the presence of certain woman initiators and guys felt vvveee strange in the presence of some male initiators. I was blown away, relishing the obvious and non-obvious charms of a female initiator who told me about THE CULT OF MALE HOMOSEXUALITY AT MIU. Man, I thought she was going to kick over the table we sat opposite to each other at, me drinking coffee and having a piece of pie, her thankful that I saved a bag of mint tea from that ?tofu? lunch and wanting to wolf down that pie in front of me, plate and all. I said to myself why, me, Lord?. Good to hear your impressions here, whoever you are. They match mine during the time I was a TM teacher and governor and State Coordinator and all that stuff. The whole scene was a Soap Opera of the Third Kind, a buncha people with really *ordinary* desires, dreams and aspirations (I just want to find someone to love) hiding those everyday desires and dreams and aspirations behind the accepted *group* desires, dreams and aspirations. Then came the post 6 months course mating frenzy. I had a lady governor rip me another one when she announced that I had taken too long to propose to her and that she had to settle for HIM instead. Tell me about it. :-) Being a State Coordinator type, I was more visible on the West coast than some eligible (meaning non-celibate and never likely to be celibate) TM teachers. So I got hit on a *lot*. And no, it was NOT because I was very good looking or rich or smart or anything like that; it was (IMO) because I had managed to be in the TM movement, hold some minor positions in it, and still manage to have a sex life. So a lot of women who hadn't managed the last element in that triad were lookin' to hook up with some guy who had. There is really nothing more frightening at the time (and hilarious in retrospect) than being cor- nered at a residence course by a woman who hasn't been laid in years. Ok I guess if you find her attractive, but if you don't...? OK, I might have flirted. I wasn't a bad looking guy, she was not a displeasing to the eye lady. But a couple of flirts is not the same as buying an option on an engagement ring. Perhaps y'all remember that us guys were back home developing our professions and were at the highest jerk (first derivative of acceleration) of our careers while y'all were somewhere in the Alps. There was a mad race for male sidhas (if you're not, we can fix that) by lady governors because they were prospering and there was an imperative at the time to marry and manufacture bodies for nearly enlightened souls to inhabit. The thought Fourth Reich comes to mind. OTOH, we had some really tense times ourselves on residences courses at the Holiday Inn. Yes, I liked to talk to the mother of one of my good friends and yes, she was nicely put together. But should we be talking in her room not wanting to put a name on the tension in the air? Of course it got even stranger. Not only were many private liaisons in those cabins at Cobb on my flying block, there was a group of cabins right up front which housed married couples. They observed a proper cocktail hour before time for the flying room. I have many fond memories of the ATR courses at Cobb Mountain. During one six week course I wound up sleep- ing with seven or eight different women (none of them married, thank you). There was a LOT of foolin' around going down at those courses. As I've said here before, those who get all huffy and pretend that there *wasn't* a lot of very human foolin' around goin' on are just pissed off that they didn't get in on the action. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:26 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The TMers Pledge Yes, I agree. I'm sure I came off as a complete ass to many people too polite to call me on my bullshit when I was teaching TM. Makes me cringe just thinking about it! I can relate. I was stark raving loony at times, and speaking in public!
