[lace] Hitches

[Gray, Alison J]

Hi everyone



All the talk about hitches on bobbins reminded me of when I was teaching
my daughter and some of her friends to make lace some years ago.  I
discovered that one of the girls always wound her bobbins in the
opposite way to me and the others (winding towards herself, rather than
away).



She always did this so when I showed her how to do hitches I had to
teach myself how to do them the other way round so that I could teach
her.



I never had a teacher myself and learned with a Dryad lacemaking kit
which showed you how to put hitches on the top of the bobbin rather than
on the thread.  I found that they were always slipping and started to
put them on the thread.  I have found that this usually works unless the
thread is quite thick.



Alison in Essex

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[lace] hitches

[Jo Falkink]

Quite a late reaction on the subject, until now only occasionaly my bobbins 
ran away. But this weekend I worked for the first time with the finest 
Pipers silk. Very thin and slippery. I started to practice leadworks. 
Disaster. But I noticed it is very important to avoid angles between the 
bobbin and leash. As long as both form a straight line and the bobbin has a 
little tension the slip knot holds. Because of the tension a domed or roller 
pillow might also help.


Jo
between Gouda and Rotterdam 


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[lace] hitches

[Janice Blair]

Alice wrote:



I may have asked this before, but I have noticed that people
wind their thread onto the bobbins differently.  Some put the
thread all along the neck, especially if the bobbin has a grooved
head, others wind it at the bottom of the neck but some wind the
thread all near the top of the bobbin.  I always wind my thread
the whole length of the neck but if I am only winding on a little,
I do it near the top of the neck.  

Are there any rules on how it should be put on the bobbin?
I know there are no lace police but I wondered if anyone has 
been told how to correctly do it.
Janice




Janice Blair
Crystal Lake, 50 miles northwest of Chicago, Illinois, USA
www.jblace.com
http://www.lacemakersofillinois.org/

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[lace] Hitches

[Jean Nathan]

The head of the bobbin makes no difference to me - I make a single loop
hitch around the thread, not around the neck, so I can choose my bobbins by
their weight
and attractiveness, and have examples from many modern makers. The only time
the hitch comes undone on a few is when I remove wound bobbins which have
been head down from a bobbin roll.

Christine Springett demonstrates winding the thread twice round the finger
and dropping the double loop over the head of the bobbin to form a hitch in
the groove of the head in her first video on Torchon.

Jean in Poole

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[lace] Hitches

[Jane Partridge]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jean Nathan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>The head of the bobbin makes no difference to me - I make a single loop
>hitch around the thread, not around the neck, 

I went one further than this, and got Eric, Jacqui Southworth's husband,
to turn me some Midland bobbins with a single head - I don't use the
double head anyway and this meant that the body of the bobbin could be
slightly longer, (without sacrificing thread space on the long neck)
allowing it to be wound by hand without the spangle catching the lower
edge of my hand with each turn. Unfortunately, the makers of bobbin
blanks don't consider that point about bobbin length!

-- 
Jane Partridge


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Re:[lace] Hitches

[pene piip]

Liz & other lacemakers might like to know that when you haven't enough
thread to stay on the bobbin, a "clove hitch" works best. It works for me.

If you need to know to make this knot, here is an animated web-site:
>


Pene (with 10 more days until my doctor's appointment)
Tartu, Estonia

Liz Ligeti wrote:
I, too use spangled bobbins, and usually put the hitch on the thread.
I find that when the thread is getting run-down, and mostly used up, 
then the

hitches don't hold. Then I either push the thread up to the neck, or, if it
is too tight to move, I pull most of it off, and rewind it near to the
head, and then the hitch holds.

Otherwise, I wrap twice around the neck of the bobbin then add the
half-hitch, and that usually holds well. If that turns out too tight, I
delete one of the winds around the neck.

Regards from Liz in Melbourne, Oz.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] Hitches

[TwoHappyBees]

Dear Pene & fellow spiders,

What a neat site that is!  Thanks for sharing it.  I learned to use the clove 
hitch when first attaching my thread to the bobbin before winding, only I 
didn't know that was what is was called.  I have since discovered that this 
technique does not seem to be widespread.  Most of my friends just start 
winding on 
the thread without attaching the thread first.  Using the clove hitch will 
keep a bobbin from getting away from you if the half hitch should come undone 
and the bobbin falls and as Pene said, it will let you unwind most of the 
thread 
while keeping bobbin and thread attached.  One of my friends who is much 
thriftier with thread than I am  has still another technique: she loops a 
slipknot 
over the head of the bobbin to use short lengths of leftover thread for small 
projects. 

Hope you're healing well, Pene!

Vicki in Maryland where we are enjoying the most perfect "autumn preview" 
temps this weekendperfect for lacing in the park tomorrow!

**
 Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

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Re: [lace] Hitches

[David in Ballarat]

Dear Alison,


I still haven't got round to analyzing my hitch yet. However, I do 
know from various students I've had, that if you'[ve wound your 
bobbins the wrong way, the hitch will not hold at all. Now, I'm only 
assuming that I wind my bobbins the same way as everyone else, but to 
check, if I point the head of the bobbin towards me then the thread 
goes round clockwise.

I'll try and get onto my hitch tomorrow

David in Ballarat



All the talk about hitches on bobbins reminded me of when I was teaching
my daughter and some of her friends to make lace some years ago.  I
discovered that one of the girls always wound her bobbins in the
opposite way to me and the others (winding towards herself, rather than
away).


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Re: [lace] Hitches

[Lisa McClure]

Speaking as a lefty, if you wind your bobbins the "wrong way",  you need 
to be sure to also do your hitches the "wrong way".   Then all works 
just as well as if you had done everything the right way.   


Lisa in Arizona
I still haven't got round to analyzing my hitch yet. However, I do 
know from various students I've had, that if you'[ve wound your 
bobbins the wrong way, the hitch will not hold at all. Now, I'm only 
assuming that I wind my bobbins the same way as everyone else, but to 
check, if I point the head of the bobbin towards me then the thread 
goes round clockwise.

I'll try and get onto my hitch tomorrow

David in Ballarat


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Re: [lace] hitches

[Achim Siebert]

Using Pipers 20/2 for my first steps in Chantilly with the tutorial DVD by
Lia Baumeister, I also had problems at first with the slippery thread. But
since starting putting triple hitches on the bobbins, it doesn't slip any
more, but can still be unwinded nicely. For very thin cotton I also use a
double hitch.
I always make the hitch at the free top of the bobbin, not on the already
winded thread.


Best, Achim in Berlin
http://www.achims.de/Kloeppeln/ (sorry, german blog only for now)

2007/9/11, Jo Falkink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Quite a late reaction on the subject, until now only occasionaly my
> bobbins
> ran away. But this weekend I worked for the first time with the finest
> Pipers silk. Very thin and slippery. I started to practice leadworks.
> Disaster. But I noticed it is very important to avoid angles between the
> bobbin and leash. As long as both form a straight line and the bobbin has
> a
> little tension the slip knot holds. Because of the tension a domed or
> roller
> pillow might also help.
>
> Jo
> between Gouda and Rotterdam
>
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Re: [lace] hitches

[Alice Howell]

--- Achim Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I always make the hitch at the free top of the
> bobbin, not on the already winded thread.
> 

This statement reminded me of a class I took where we
were using very fine silk.  We were told to wind it on
the bottom half of the bobbin thread area, and to put
the hitch at the top, just under the knob, on the bare
wood.

This prevented the hitch from getting lost in the
winds of thread.  With the very fine silk, finding a
lost hitch would have been impossible.  The hitch was
always visible, and could be easily loosened with a
pin if it didn't unwind correctly.

Alice in Oregon -- another hot day

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Re: [lace] hitches

[Carolina de la Guardia]

I agree with this winding method and it is the way I usually work.
On the other hand, I make always up to 4 hitches at the free top half of 
the bobbins ( on the bare wood) and the

thread unwind perfectly when needed.
When it comes of rayon/silk, 5 hitches are also suitable, if we are 
talking of thin threads.


Regards from Barcelona. Spain.

Carolina

Alice Howell escribió:
We were told to wind it on

the bottom half of the bobbin thread area, and to put
the hitch at the top, just under the knob, on the bare
wood.



--
Carolina de la Guardia
http://www.geocities.com/carolgallego

Witch Stitch Lace
Special Fan Patterns now available

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Re: [lace] hitches

[David in Ballarat]

Dear Friends,

I have had a very busy week accompanying choirs at our local 
Eisteddfod, but it's over now. So tomorrow I shall endeavour to 
analyze the hitch I use on my bobbins.


It's definitely only a half hitch and it goes on the thread - not the 
neck. I nearly always use Pipers 2/20 silk and my single half hitch 
holds beautifully. For those in the know, it's the first half of a 
clove hitch, which I learned in the late 50s in the Cubs.

David in Ballarat


Using Pipers 20/2 for my first steps in Chantilly with the tutorial DVD by
Lia Baumeister, I also had problems at first with the slippery thread. But
since starting putting triple hitches on the bobbins, it doesn't slip any
more, but can still be unwinded nicely. For very thin cotton I also use a
double hitch.
I always make the hitch at the free top of the bobbin, not on the already
winded thread.


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RE: [lace] hitches

[C Johnson]

Just a note Janice and everyone:  

My Australian lace instructor always cautioned me to be careful to NOT fill
the neck so much that the thread rubs on the pillow.  I think it would wear
on the threads.
  
Otherwise, I wind pretty much like Janice does.  My Honiton projects with
120/2 or smaller I usually wind in the opposite direction because the
threads seem to untwist and break the other way for me, thus my hitch is
reversed also.

Happy Lacing...

Susie Johnson
Morris, IL
Member of L.A.C.E. & I.O.L.I.
http://www.lacemakersofillinois.org
(New pattern on our site from Georgia Seitz)

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Re: [lace] hitches

[Clay Blackwell]

Hi Janice!

Wonderful job you did with IOLI, btw!!  I'm still in awe that six people 
(five?) could do all of that work and still be smiling at the end of the 
week!!


I wrote to Diane privately (meant to send it to the list, but I've been 
brain-dead since getting home from IOLI...  mostly due to the air travel 
fiascos, I'm sure!!)  about the way I do hitches, and so thought I'd 
post it again to the list.


If a bobbin has a double head, I always take advantage of that, and use 
a double hitch on the bobbin.  I believe Achiem is the one who posted an 
URL for an excellent video of how to do a hitch, and I'm surprised this 
hasn't been cited in the current discussion.


As a matter of fact, I mostly work with bobbins which have a single 
head.  I also usually work with fine threads.  But it is still important 
to me that my hitches hold, and that I'm able to peel off the thread I 
need as I need it (meaning, I don't have to use a pin to work it off the 
bobbin, but simply turn the bobbin so that the thread and the bobbin are 
forming a 90 degree angle and simply unwind what I need...  this was 
also mentioned by Robin Panza...).  So, to achieve this on a single-head 
bobbin, using fine thread, I simply wind all of the thread on the bottom 
80% of the length of the neck.  The top 20% is left bare.  This means 
that when I put in my  double hitch, it automatically gravitates to the 
lowest point - the neck of the bobbin that hasn't been wound - and it 
holds securely, doesn't dig into the wound thread farther down the neck, 
and it unwinds at my command.  I have never had problems with my fine 
threads using this technique.


Do I want to talk about reeled silk threads?  I think not...  those have 
minds of their own, and I still haven't found the solution for them!!  ; 
)  Still love'm, still use'm...  but still can't control them on my 
bobbins!!


Clay

Janice Blair wrote:

I may have asked this before, but I have noticed that people
wind their thread onto the bobbins differently.  Some put the
thread all along the neck, especially if the bobbin has a grooved
head, others wind it at the bottom of the neck but some wind the
thread all near the top of the bobbin.  I always wind my thread
the whole length of the neck but if I am only winding on a little,
I do it near the top of the neck.  


Are there any rules on how it should be put on the bobbin?
I know there are no lace police but I wondered if anyone has 
been told how to correctly do it.

Janice




Janice Blair
Crystal Lake, 50 miles northwest of Chicago, Illinois, USA
www.jblace.com
http://www.lacemakersofillinois.org/

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Re: [lace] hitches

[Sue Duckles]

Do you mean this one Clay?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v4w4rdRlZWE

Sue in EY
On 19 Aug 2008, at 00:57, Clay Blackwell wrote:
 I believe Achiem is the one who posted an URL for an excellent  
video of how to do a hitch, and I'm surprised this hasn't been cited  
in the current discussion.


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Re: [lace] hitches

[robinlace]

 Janice Blair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
 I may have asked this before, but I have noticed that people
wind their thread onto the bobbins differently.  Some put the
thread all along the neck, especially if the bobbin has a grooved
head, others wind it at the bottom of the neck but some wind the
thread all near the top of the bobbin.  I always wind my thread
the whole length of the neck but if I am only winding on a little,
I do it near the top of the neck.  --


I use all three.  Most of the time, I do smallish things and wind the thread 
near the top of the neck.  I use Midlands and Swiss bobbins, which have 
"double" heads and I always hitch in the notch of the head.  However, I don't 
want to "waste" thread by spreading out the wraps, or wrapping near the bottom 
of the neck.  I want it all piled up at the top, so the beginning of the thread 
is well-anchored to the bobbin.

When I'm doing something that requires a lot of thread, or a series of small 
things where I wind one bobbin full and just a little on the other, I wind all 
up and down the neck.  I keep the wraps close together, even pushing them 
periodically, on the first layer.  I haven't had trouble with layers getting 
muddled, so I wind the extra layers close together, too.  

I do also have some simple-headed bobbins (Dutch, Danish) that I occasionally 
use, and then I wind the thread at the bottom of the neck.  This leaves room 
for the hitch at the top, relatively safe from the wraps.  I say relatively, 
because unwinding thread often pulls some of the wrap up by the hitch, and I 
have occasionally had trouble with these renegate wraps gobbling up the hitch.

just my habits
Robin P.
Los Angeles, California, USA

P.S., Thanks for a *great* convention.  Don't know how we in LA are going to 
meet such a high standard.

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[lace] hitches & straws

[Elizabeth Ligeti]

That is an excellent video of how to do hitches.

I have used the split straws when using a metallic thread, - when the thread
had a mind of it's own!  It worked very well.

Regards from Liz in cold, grey, Melbourne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[lace] hitches & straws

[Francis Busschaert]

Be aware of straws !
for the USA people under us their should be reading now under the text 
"do not do this at home"!


SO be aware of straws!!
they can cause more dammage then doing any good to your work
mostly it is of fine plastic/plastoïde material
whit extra harding compounds to make it tough for drinking/sipping
now because of the toughness of the plastic it works quite offen like a 
knif on your threads
if you use very fine silks made of flos silk/ continuous silk you can 
have very very unwanted fibres cuttings and so you get

some fluffyness on the threads
beleve me a "catastrophe general total"

their is a special silk-knot i learn all people wanting to see it
i promise to put it as fast as possible on the internet to show to all 
of you

i do not have a camera so it will be still fotos

all whom i learned it say WOW  is it that simple
yes it is and it is a world of difference
some are more underneath their table looking for the unwounded bobins
and rewinding them then making lace


i have the very unwanted feeling that to many people do not know the 
basic of lace

they can make binche
vallencienne and most other extremly time consuming laces but the real basic
before you start is mostly lacking..

in most of their minds they are here (in the payed classes) to do lace
not to wound bobbins..
mostly they do it at home between their patatoe peeling and the 
carots-scrapping

that gives an idea of how important they think it is
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
it is of the uttermost importancel!!!
that is were the "catastrophe general total" begins
and not the sice of the bobin
the color of the bobin
the extra head or what ever
nope
no no

i promise to put the fotos on a website this weekend
it will be in english, well you knwo my english (Belgo-beneluxenglish)
but you will nderstand

kind regards

francis




Karen schreef:

That's what I used the straws for but it didn't work for me! Perhaps the
bobbins we use here have  necks that are too thick for straws, but yesterday
I came across two straws which are much thicker than usual, so I washed them
and kept them to try again!
Karen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Elizabeth Ligeti
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:57 AM
To: Arachne
Subject: [lace] hitches & straws

That is an excellent video of how to do hitches.

I have used the split straws when using a metallic thread, - when the thread
had a mind of it's own!  It worked very well.

Regards from Liz in cold, grey, Melbourne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [lace] Hitches

[jstavast]

Hi All,
How many others don't use the double head on a midlands bobbin?  How 
long should bobbins be?   Would it be worthwhile for bobbin makers to 
make single headed midlands bobbins as a general rule?  Should they 
be longer than the 4 inches which seems to be fairly standard for 
midlands?  

Most bobbin makers pattern their bobbins after styles that have been 
around for years.  Feedback from lace makers on how the bobbins work 
for them and any changes/improvements in the style would probably be 
appreciated by the bobbin makers since it would help them to provide 
a more useful bobbin and thereby increase bobbin sales.

Jim Stavast
www.beeutahful.com

On 2 Apr 2005 at 14:28, Jane Partridge wrote:

> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jean Nathan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> >The head of the bobbin makes no difference to me - I make a single loop
> >hitch around the thread, not around the neck, 
> 
> I went one further than this, and got Eric, Jacqui Southworth's husband,
> to turn me some Midland bobbins with a single head - I don't use the
> double head anyway and this meant that the body of the bobbin could be
> slightly longer, (without sacrificing thread space on the long neck)
> allowing it to be wound by hand without the spangle catching the lower
> edge of my hand with each turn. Unfortunately, the makers of bobbin
> blanks don't consider that point about bobbin length!
> 
> -- 
> Jane Partridge
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 01/04/2005
> 
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Re: [lace] Hitches

[Sue Babbs]

Hi All,
How many others don't use the double head on a midlands bobbin?
I, for one, much prefer bobbins with a double head for the hitch. I hate 
hitching over the thread, as this makes it so much harder to lengthen the 
thread when I want more to use.

I don't feel strongly about the length of the bobbin, as long as it has a 
good head, and reasonable amount of space to put the thread. The smoother 
the bobbin, the nicer it is to work with, and the less damage it does to the 
thread .

Where possible I prefer to work with Midlands bobbin. I have tried square 
and continental but go back to spangled Midlands and have no problems making 
sewings with them.

I expect you are going to get many views expressed on this subject. Thanks 
for wanting to know what lacemakers prefer
Sue Babbs 

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Re: [lace] Hitches

[Clay Blackwell]

Hi Jim !

You are definitely on to something here!!  I think that lacemaking has
evolved enough through the 20th century that 21st century bobbins can be
made which are less "traditional" and more "functional", and the most
successful of these will be those that are also aesthetically pleasing. 
This last bit is the tricky one, since it is so subjective!!  But history
bears the wisdom of making what pleases YOU (because it is what pleases you
most, and what you do best...) and those who are in sync will buy them as
fast as you can make them!!  

So to other bobbin makers out there who may be lurking...  single-headed
midlands, double-headed continentals, squares which are either/or...  ?!?!?
Have fun with it!!

Clay 

Clay Blackwell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Jane Partridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
> Date: 4/2/2005 4:20:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [lace] Hitches
>
> Hi All,
> How many others don't use the double head on a midlands bobbin?  How 
> long should bobbins be?   Would it be worthwhile for bobbin makers to 
> make single headed midlands bobbins as a general rule?  Should they 
> be longer than the 4 inches which seems to be fairly standard for 
> midlands?  
>
> Most bobbin makers pattern their bobbins after styles that have been 
> around for years.  Feedback from lace makers on how the bobbins work 
> for them and any changes/improvements in the style would probably be 
> appreciated by the bobbin makers since it would help them to provide 
> a more useful bobbin and thereby increase bobbin sales.
>
> Jim Stavast
> www.beeutahful.com
>
> On 2 Apr 2005 at 14:28, Jane Partridge wrote:
>
> > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jean Nathan
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> > >The head of the bobbin makes no difference to me - I make a single loop
> > >hitch around the thread, not around the neck, 
> > 
> > I went one further than this, and got Eric, Jacqui Southworth's husband,
> > to turn me some Midland bobbins with a single head - I don't use the
> > double head anyway and this meant that the body of the bobbin could be
> > slightly longer, (without sacrificing thread space on the long neck)
> > allowing it to be wound by hand without the spangle catching the lower
> > edge of my hand with each turn. Unfortunately, the makers of bobbin
> > blanks don't consider that point about bobbin length!
> > 
> > -- 
> > Jane Partridge
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
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> > 
> > 
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> > 
>
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Re: [lace] Hitches

[Alice Howell]

At 01:11 PM 4/2/2005, you wrote:
How many others don't use the double head on a midlands bobbin?  How
long should bobbins be?   Would it be worthwhile for bobbin makers to
make single headed midlands bobbins as a general rule?  Should they
be longer than the 4 inches which seems to be fairly standard for
midlands?
My understanding was that the particular shape of the double head on a 
Midlands bobbin designated the maker of that bobbin.  It also looks 
pretty.  I think a Midlands bobbin would not look as nice with a single 
head but would still make lace just as well.  The double head also gives 
the lacemaker the option of hitching above or on the threads.

I hitch my threads on the thread area, no matter what kind of bobbin I 
use.  It's easier for me to have only one method that works on any 
bobbin.  I use a lot of continental bobbins, at least in recent years.

My favorite size of Midland bobbin is between 3-1/2 and 4 inches.  I think 
it's more important to have the same or similar sized bobbins, than a 
particular length.  If all the bobbins on a pillow are the same length, 
longer than 4" would work fine.

I find the that a difference in thickness of the bobbins is as 
disconcerting as a difference in length.  1/4 inch wide in the middle of 
the handle seems just right for my fingers to pick up.  Thicker feels 
strange, and very thin are hard to pick up.

Just one person's preference.
Alice in Oregon
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Re: [lace] Hitches

[robinlace]

I *always* use the head groove on Midlands bobbins.  In fact, the lack of a 
groove is a major reason I dislike most Continentals (I use Swiss because they 
have a grooved head).  When I hitch on the neck, sooner or later the hitch gets 
bogged down in among the wound threads and I get a terrible snarl.

Robin P.
Los Angeles, California, USA
(formerly  Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> How many others don't use the double head on a midlands bobbin?  
> How long should bobbins be?   Would it be worthwhile for bobbin makers 
> to make single headed midlands bobbins as a general rule?  Should 
> they be longer than the 4 inches which seems to be fairly standard for 
> midlands?  

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Re: [lace] Hitches

[kenn van dieren]

- Original Message -
How many others don't use the double head on a midlands bobbin?  How long 
should bobbins be?   Would it be worthwhile for bobbin makers to make 
single headed midlands bobbins as a general rule?  Should they be longer 
than the 4 inches which seems to be fairly standard for midlands?  >>
Over the years I think I have made almost every vaiation possible depending 
on the customer request or just how I happen to feel while turning that 
particular bobbin  I have made double headed Honiton and single headed 
Midlands.  On the bobbin area of my website I show Danish with LePuy heads. 
Currently I am making Midlands with a loose ring on the neck area.  I does 
not seem to interfer with winding thread on the bobbin and I need the 
practice.  You like the bobbin but not the ring I simply break it off.

Most of bobbin style is tradition but it started somewere.  I am still a 
strong believer that had Ethafoam and Styrofoam existed in the 1700's, we 
would never have seen a heavy straw pillow.  Bobbin makers make bobbins  the 
same because that is what the customer wants.  And it is about busness.  I 
can make all the strange variations I want but the tradional shape will sell 
the most.  If I don't have them they will be purchased at anothe stall.

One of the first designs I ever did had a small groove set into the bottom 
protion of the head as a decorative feature.  I was told that they simply 
did not do that to bobbins because the thread might catch and certainly 
would never sell.  So I never offered them for sale but put them in my 
private stash for lacemaking and have used them over the years.  Still 
waiting to catch that first thread yet, by the way.

If you want it, a bobbinmaker will make it.   But in a market that is 
already small and limited, this area is more limited still.  The result is 
that one makes sellable bobbins and keeps a few odd ones around for you to 
look for and seek out.

**
Bobbins by Van-Dieren
Kenn Van-Dieren
2304 Clifford Avenue
Rochester, NY 14609
Tel: 585.654.5711
Cell: 585.750.8842
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: www.bobbinmaker.com
*
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Re: [lace] Hitches

[Karen]

HI,

I do use the double head, but revert to hitching on the neck for bobbins
which are misbehaving!

Where the same type of bobbins are misbehaving, I wonder if there is also a
factor relating to how the thread is wound onto the bobbin.  Uneven winding
may cause a problem which we would not necessarily spot - in the same sort
of way an unevenly wound sewing machine bobbin can cause problems (the sort
which go in the bottam of the machine).  Also, could it be something to do
with the relationship between where the thread comes from on the neck to the
hitch?  Another thought, is the amount of thread on the bobbin.  I find I
have problems where there is very little thread on the bobbin.  I  think
this is because there is not enough thread on the neck to hold still against
the weight and movement factors involved.

Certainly some bobbins seem to have more problems than others.  Even with
the same type of bobbin, one may have subtle differences:  different wood,
different grain, smoothness etc.I like ebony bobbins, but they often release
thread as they are so smooth, but I pick up on that because the bobbins
stand out on the pillow.  Unless you are observant, you can miss the fact
that some bobbins release thread more easily than others.

Karen
In Coventry, England

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re: [lace] hitches

[Bev Walker]

Hi everyone, and for Carol

Herewith some random thoughts of mine about hitches on bobbins, and why
with some bobbins the thread whiffles off annoyingly.

If the thread is the right size to the rest of the project, I don't have
problems with the heads of standard machine turned bobbins,
nor most of the hand-turned styles, either continental or midlands. Of the
latter, my Malcolm Fielding bobbins tend to release thread and hitches too
readily unless I use them on a flat pillow. I think this is because his
bobbins are highly polished - however the thread behaves if I'm using v.
fine thread, cotton 80/2 or finer, on a domed pillow.

I have discovered that the thread will not behave if the bobbin is too
heavy or too light for the thread. You've got to find the balance.

When I use linen, it can misbehave but if I dab a bit
of moisture (in small letters, wet one finger on tip of tongue, touch tip
of thread to shank of bobbin and begin winding) it stays wound, unless
the ambient humidity is low - linen likes a bit of moisture in the air.
When using linen thread, I make the hitch on the shank, if the bobbin is
double-headed, rather than the head. For fine cotton threads except
honiton, I definitely use a double-headed bobbin and place the hitch on
the head. Honiton is just fine with hitch on shank, occasionally I lose
the hitch in the thread (c'est la vie).

It is all a matter of physics - the angle that the thread leaves the
bobbin via the hitch; weight of the bobbin vs. grist of thread vs. slope
from pinpoint; the amount of spin applied - knowingly or not - to the
bobbins during work; shape of pillow and position of lacemaker - and
position of pillow and shape of lacemaker :p
- correct amount of friction that keeps hitch in place - relevant to
angle, bobbin surface, method of making the hitch.

I had a thought that the one part of the loop of a double hitch could
rest around the shank, and the second part on the neck part of the head
of the bobbin.

One thing I know for sure - fighting with one's materials is not
conducive to "happy lacemaking." Good luck to the lacemaker with
belligerent bobbins ;)

-- 
bye for now
Bev in Sooke, BC (on Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)
Cdn. floral bobbins
www.woodhavenbobbins.com

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Re: [lace] Hitches

[Carol Adkinson]

We are all *so* dufferent, aren't we!

I love *really* slim Midlands bobbins, and use them for everything!   I love
spangling, and have spent countless Lace Days spangling bobbins for other
people, only because I love to match up beads, and love the finished result.

But - I also *always* hitch the thread on the head - never on the thread
itself.   There are probably two reasons for that - the first one is that
that was the way I was taught to do it, and the second is that I found once
or twice when I had a bobbin without a head, that the thread worked OK for a
while, then the hitch got lost in the thread, got knotted, and all sorts of
trouble happened.   So - I now have all Midlands bobbins, all very slim
indeed, and all have heads to wind the hitch on!

Any poor old bobbin lacemaker who tried to satisfy us all would really and
truly have his work cut out, wouldn't he!

Carol - in Suffolk UK where Spring has retreated, and it is raining!

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [lace] Hitches

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[lace] Hitches on video

[Jean Nathan]

In addition to saving the OIDFA video clips to your computer to watch 
whenever you like, you can also save Youtube videos (and demos from shopping 
channels - I save QVC cardmaking ones) to Realplayer (a free downloaded 
program) by ticking the box next to  Preferences - downloading and 
recording - Enable web downloading and recording.


Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK 


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[lace] hitches on bobbins

[Wendy Davies]

Hi De Hi

Thank you all for your answers to this question.  I am using my SMP bobbin
winder for winding the bobbins so will have a look which way they are wound I
presumed it is the right way.  It is the first time I have heard of left or
right hand hitches so another thing for me to look at. It is so frustrating
when using thin thread and then having to undo to lengthen the thread as I
have to use a pin to separate the thread and I have had an occasion on the
piece I am working on that the thread has broken later on down the lace.

Wendy St Dogmaels


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[lace] hitches on bobbins

[Wendy Davies]

Hi all

Thank you all for your help.

Yesterday I started a new project that I should finish later on today and when
I came to the hitches I put one on the neck and the final one in the top that
way I found that I only have the one thread on the top and when I go and
lengthen then I am not picking at two threads with my pin. I am still working
on how to get the bobbins to stay wound with one hitch. So on the next project
I will try and get my head around which way my hitches are going in the hope
that I can manage with one and then easy pesy.

wendy St Dogmaels
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RE: [lace] hitches & straws

[Karen]

That's what I used the straws for but it didn't work for me! Perhaps the
bobbins we use here have  necks that are too thick for straws, but yesterday
I came across two straws which are much thicker than usual, so I washed them
and kept them to try again!
Karen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Elizabeth Ligeti
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:57 AM
To: Arachne
Subject: [lace] hitches & straws

That is an excellent video of how to do hitches.

I have used the split straws when using a metallic thread, - when the thread
had a mind of it's own!  It worked very well.

Regards from Liz in cold, grey, Melbourne
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [lace] hitches & straws

[Karen]

Thank you Francis. I will look out for it eagerly.
Karen in Malta

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Francis Busschaert
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:30 AM
To: Karen; lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] hitches & straws

Be aware of straws !
for the USA people under us their should be reading now under the text 
"do not do this at home"!

SO be aware of straws!!
they can cause more dammage then doing any good to your work
mostly it is of fine plastic/plastoïde material
whit extra harding compounds to make it tough for drinking/sipping
now because of the toughness of the plastic it works quite offen like a 
knif on your threads
if you use very fine silks made of flos silk/ continuous silk you can 
have very very unwanted fibres cuttings and so you get
some fluffyness on the threads
beleve me a "catastrophe general total"

their is a special silk-knot i learn all people wanting to see it
i promise to put it as fast as possible on the internet to show to all 
of you
i do not have a camera so it will be still fotos

all whom i learned it say WOW  is it that simple
yes it is and it is a world of difference
some are more underneath their table looking for the unwounded bobins
and rewinding them then making lace


i have the very unwanted feeling that to many people do not know the 
basic of lace
they can make binche
vallencienne and most other extremly time consuming laces but the real basic
before you start is mostly lacking..

in most of their minds they are here (in the payed classes) to do lace
not to wound bobbins..
mostly they do it at home between their patatoe peeling and the 
carots-scrapping
that gives an idea of how important they think it is
WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
it is of the uttermost importancel!!!
that is were the "catastrophe general total" begins
and not the sice of the bobin
the color of the bobin
the extra head or what ever
nope
no no

i promise to put the fotos on a website this weekend
it will be in english, well you knwo my english (Belgo-beneluxenglish)
but you will nderstand

kind regards

francis




Karen schreef:
> That's what I used the straws for but it didn't work for me! Perhaps the
> bobbins we use here have  necks that are too thick for straws, but
yesterday
> I came across two straws which are much thicker than usual, so I washed
them
> and kept them to try again!
> Karen
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> Elizabeth Ligeti
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:57 AM
> To: Arachne
> Subject: [lace] hitches & straws
>
> That is an excellent video of how to do hitches.
>
> I have used the split straws when using a metallic thread, - when the
thread
> had a mind of it's own!  It worked very well.
>
> Regards from Liz in cold, grey, Melbourne
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.
> It has removed 241 spam emails to date.
> Paying users do not have this message in their emails.
> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
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18:53
>
>
>
>   

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Re: [lace] hitches & straws

[Achim Siebert]

Hello Francis,

Am 20.08.2008 um 09:30 schrieb Francis Busschaert:


their is a special silk-knot i learn all people wanting to see it
i promise to put it as fast as possible on the internet to show to  
all of you

i do not have a camera so it will be still fotos


Since I did a little Bucks bookmark in silk last weekend I had another  
look on your "Zijde Knoop" page - unfortunately, none of the pictures  
mentioned in the text are visible. Is it an error on the webpage or  
did you just not get around to complete the page?


Looking forward to see how you do it - some of my bobbins tend to  
loosen with the slippery silk, even with a double or triple hitch on  
them.


Best, Achim in autumnal Berlin.

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Re: [lace] hitches & straws

[Francis Busschaert]

Hallo Mvr Siegbert,

fur ein oder den anderen ursache laden die fotos nicht auf
ich versteche es auch nicht so gut
ich versuche es montag noch mahl neu auf das internet zu publicieren
hoffendlich gheht es dan doch sichtbar sein

die knoten ist echt ein reines wunder
sehr einfach und das gibt sie den moglichheit fur shon weiter su 
arbeiten mit glates materiaal


grusse

francis



Achim Siebert schreef:

Hello Francis,

Am 20.08.2008 um 09:30 schrieb Francis Busschaert:


their is a special silk-knot i learn all people wanting to see it
i promise to put it as fast as possible on the internet to show to 
all of you

i do not have a camera so it will be still fotos


Since I did a little Bucks bookmark in silk last weekend I had another 
look on your "Zijde Knoop" page - unfortunately, none of the pictures 
mentioned in the text are visible. Is it an error on the webpage or 
did you just not get around to complete the page?


Looking forward to see how you do it - some of my bobbins tend to 
loosen with the slippery silk, even with a double or triple hitch on 
them.


Best, Achim in autumnal Berlin.

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Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1674 - Release Date: 16/09/2008 8:15


  


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[lace] Hitches and winding

[John OConnor]

Tamara wrote ""Because of that, I also wind very 
neatly when winding down the neck, but try to get back up in 3-5 
(spiral) turns. Those few turns make the next layer (going down the 
neck and "neat" again) *look* ugly, but they seem to let me "go over 
the mined ground lightly". Don't know *why*, so don't ask me :)""

By spiraling up [or down] when winding the thread, the spirals prevent
the next layer of tightly wound thread from imbedding itself in the
previous layer which results in the thread being "buried" and trouble for
all. I have found that the spiral layer does loosen the tension of the
thread, however, and one must watch that it doesn't loosen the hitch as
well. Still, winding this way makes unwinding much easier.

Jane O'Connor
New Lenox, IL. USA - 50 miles SW of Chicago's Loop
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Take time to laugh, it is the music of the soul

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[lace] Hitches - video for beginners

[Achim Siebert]

It's been a while but today I took the time to test the video  
capabilites of my (photo) camera. Here's a video of me making  
hitches, without voice-over for now, but I intend to add some words  
later:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4w4rdRlZWE

Please tell me what you think - I'm not even sure if I do it right,  
since I learned from books only. But the methods I show work for me  
and I hope it will help beginners to get it right.

Best, Achim.

Am 11.09.2007 um 18:27 schrieb Achim Siebert:

> uhoh, this will be difficult for me to explain as English is not my  
> mother tongue. Let's try:
>
> 1. I make the same loop as for a usual hitch (usually in the left  
> hand, holding the bobbin in the right).
> 2. I lay the hitch over the bobbin, but don't let go off the loop  
> of thread
> 3. I wind the thread of the loop two more times around the bobbin  
> head (anti-clockwise). For a double one I'd only wind one time extra.
> 4. Only then will I pull tight the hitch.
>
>
> Maybe I should put a little movie on youtube ;).
>
> Best, Achim in Berlin.
>
> 2007/9/11, Diane Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Okay, how do you make a triple hitch?
>
> Diane
>

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Re: [lace] Hitches on video

[Sister Claire]

Another excellent tip. Thank you.
=)
Sr. Claire

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Jean Nathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> In addition to saving the OIDFA video clips to your computer to watch
> whenever you like, you can also save Youtube videos (and demos from shopping
> channels - I save QVC cardmaking ones) to Realplayer (a free downloaded
> program) by ticking the box next to  Preferences - downloading and recording
> - Enable web downloading and recording.
>
> Jean in Poole, Dorset, UK
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
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[lace] hitches on the bobbin

[Wendy Davies]

Hi De Hi Spiders

Just wondering how many hitches do you do at the top of your bobbins to told
the thread.  I do two on mine but I am finding it a bother when I need to
lengthen the thread is there any other way that is quick to release but hold
without me finding the bobbin on the floor.

thanks

Wendy St Dogmaels
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RE: [lace] hitches on bobbins

[Karen]

Wendy - however you do hitches, it would do well to lengthen your bobbins
with the help of a pin because it is always kinder to the thread. I have the
nasty habit of using my fingers and somehow, unless the thread is of an
excellent quality I always tend to spoil it quite a bit.
Karen in Malta

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Wendy Davies
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2008 1:10 PM
To: lace@arachne.com
Subject: [lace] hitches on bobbins

Hi De Hi

Thank you all for your answers to this question.  I am using my SMP bobbin
winder for winding the bobbins so will have a look which way they are wound
I
presumed it is the right way.  It is the first time I have heard of left or
right hand hitches so another thing for me to look at. It is so frustrating
when using thin thread and then having to undo to lengthen the thread as I
have to use a pin to separate the thread and I have had an occasion on the
piece I am working on that the thread has broken later on down the lace.

Wendy St Dogmaels


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Re: [lace] hitches on bobbins

[Alice Howell]

There is a hint on winding very tiny thread that I learned in a Blonde class 
that could help in other laces.  Wind the thread on the lower portion of the 
thread area of the bobbin, and make the hitch at the top just under the head of 
the bobbin where no thread is wound.  The hitch has the support of the head but 
is not on top of the wound thread, thus the hitch is never 'lost' in the 
windings.

Alice in Oregon



- Original Message 
From: Wendy Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
It is so frustrating
when using thin thread and then having to undo to lengthen the thread as I
have to use a pin to separate the thread and I have had an occasion on the
piece I am working on that the thread has broken later on down the lace.

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Re: [lace] hitches on bobbins

[Brenda Paternoster]

Wendy

There isn't really a right or a wrong direction to wind bobbins, but 
you do have to make the hitch correspond to the direction the bobbin is 
wound.  You should also make sure that all the bobbins on the pillow 
are wound the same way or you will get confused when trying to lengthen 
them.


Some people can wind one way with continentals and the other way with 
midland bobbins, I personally can't, I always wind clockwise (looking 
down at the head).


Brenda

On 17 Aug 2008, at 12:09, Wendy Davies wrote:


Hi De Hi

Thank you all for your answers to this question.  I am using my SMP 
bobbin
winder for winding the bobbins so will have a look which way they are 
wound I
presumed it is the right way.  It is the first time I have heard of 
left or
right hand hitches so another thing for me to look at. It is so 
frustrating
when using thin thread and then having to undo to lengthen the thread 
as I
have to use a pin to separate the thread and I have had an occasion on 
the
piece I am working on that the thread has broken later on down the 
lace.


Wendy St Dogmaels


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Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

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Re: [lace] hitches on bobbins

[bevw]

If you like, without waiting for the next project, you can unwind and rewind
one of your bobbins on the current project to test a hitch system. I laced
for some time before I realized it was quite possible to undo a bobbin of
its thread and rewind again, for whatever reason;)

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 3:01 AM, Wendy Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:


> Yesterday I started a new project that I should finish later on today and
> when
> I came to the hitches I put one on the neck and the final one in the top
> that
> way I found that I only have the one thread on the top and when I go and
> lengthen then I am not picking at two threads with my pin. I am still
> working
> on how to get the bobbins to stay wound with one hitch. So on the next
> project
> I will try and get my head around which way my hitches are going in the
> hope
> that I can manage with one and then easy pesy.
>
>
-- 
Bev (near Sooke, BC on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)

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[lace] Hitches and bobbin design

[Laceandbits]

I nearly always use the double head on a midlands bobbin - the exception 
would be if I have thick thread too bulky for that bobbin, or a very slippy 
synthetic perhaps, but for "normal" thread it is as easy to put the hitch on 
the 
head as on the neck and is often easier to release thread.  As others have 
said, 
thread on thread has the risk of catching.  

The important thing is that the thread changes direction so if it is wound 
clockwise onto the bobbin, the thread passing into the hitch (wherever it is) 
should be anti-clockwise.  The hitch sits against this change of direction and 
this acts as the brake.

As to the shape of the head - I have one very old bobbin where head looks as 
if it has been sat on (by lace fairy?).  The lower bulb shape is not () but 
almost <> (with curves not corners, of course) and then the top is like an 
umberella or saucer over it, with the edges curving down slightly.  It is just 
wonderful to use, and the thread stays in place.  It's this slightly 
down-turning 
sweep of the top that holds the thread as the hitch snuggles up under it.  Of 
the modern bobbin makers, I guess Richard Gravestock's bobbins are still 
following this general principle (why doesn't he get mentioned more on arachne, 
he 
is still one of my favourite bobbin makers), and I have some *very* early 
Springett's bone ones with this shape.  The more modern trend seems to be for 
the 
top of the head to have a straight sided shape \  / which allows the thread to 
slide off far more easily.

As to Kenn's point about the grooves.  This is a common "decoration" on 
otherwise plain Honiton bobbins.  At the top of the body there are two, three 
or 
four very fine lines.  They are a pain in the b***.  Maybe Kenn isn't using his 
bobbins to do sewings, or if he is perhaps the thread is thicker than the 
groove, but the Honiton thread just fits right in there.  

Jacquie

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Re: [lace] hitches - winding bobbins

[Alice Howell]

At 10:36 AM 4/4/2005, you wrote:
But - I am still of the opinion that it is the winding of the bobbins that
is at fault!   I don't like my students to use a bobbin-winder until they
can wind their bobbins neatly and properly by hand -
We had a discussion about bobbin winding a year or so ago.  It brought out 
a point that should be reviewed.  I agree with the 'properly' above, but 
the 'neatly' may be questionable.

We were informed by one knowledgable lacemaker that bobbins, especially 
ones that are to be hitched on the thread area, should not be wound in neat 
rows like on the spools of thread in your sewing store -- with the threads 
lined up neatly side by side all down the spool.  A neat row on top of 
another neat row leaves lots of chasms for the hitch to side into -- even 
all the way down to the spindle.

The thread should be wound in a spiral manner up and down the spindle so 
that each layer crosses the previous layer at an angle.  The criss-cross of 
angles prevents the hitch from falling into a thread chasm.  It can only go 
down one layer and it stops.  ( I have to admit that I make the first layer 
a neat side-by-side layer that makes a firm foundation on the bobbin 
spindle, then the rest of the layers are zigzagged with a spacing of 3-4 
cms between threads.

But the
bobbins of the lady in question - quite apart from the threads being of
different lengths - are not always wound awfully neatly! Maybe I
ought to let her use the 'class bobbin winder' and see if it does in fact
make a difference.
Using the bobbin winder to hold the bobbin, and just have to guide the 
thread on to the bobbin might be what she needs.  Some fingers just don't 
work as well as others in activities like hand winding bobbins.  It may be 
easier for her to wind bobbins consistently with a mechanical aid.

Alice in Oregon -- with continuing damp weather, and I'm doing my first 
'het lassen' overlapping lace attachment.  Wish me luck.

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[lace] Hitches and winding bobbins

[Leonard Bazar]

"When I wind the bobbins for her, they are better
behaved but, as soon as she has done some reverse
lace, and rewound the bobbins, the problem comes back.
  Maybe I ought to let her use the 'class bobbin
winder' and see if it does in fact make a difference. 
I don't think it is the left-handed versus
right-handed scenario - but anything is possible, I
suppose!"

"she's not - I hope - winding overhand, but rolling
the bobbin as she should and a winder might help her
there"

I strongly suspect Tamara has once again put her
finger on the problem here - the lady must be winding
on the thread, not turning the bobbin, putting extra
twists on the thread, making it springier and so
throwing its hitch.  Obviously, she can't use the
winder to shorten a thread lengthened by gniecal, so
she may have to follow your suggestions rather than
know better than teacher!  You did mention she can't
see the point of keeping the threads the same length. 
A tidy desk may be the symptom of an empty mind, but a
neat lace pillow is a pleasure to work on as well as
to see!  Perhaps winding ribbon on a reel and reeling
ribbon may convince?


[EMAIL PROTECTED], who has just completed his 7
with 7 threads for the Lace Guild AGM this weekend.

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Re: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners

[Dee Palin]

I thought this was brilliant - well done!  If you learnt this from books, 
even better!

Dee Palin
Warwickshire 


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Re: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners

[David in Ballarat]

Dear Achim,

It's been a while but today I took the time to test the video
capabilites of my (photo) camera. Here's a video of me making
hitches, without voice-over for now, but I intend to add some words
later:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4w4rdRlZWE


Beautifully put together.
Your first clockwise method is mine exactly.

David in Ballarat

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Re: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners

[Lorri Ferguson]

I liked the video.  You did the movements slowly and clearly.  And you showed
it for both clockwise and anti-clockwise.  Great job!!  I learned a couple of
movements that may make it easier for me to teach beginners.

Lorri
Graham, WA USA
  - Original Message -
  From: Achim Siebert<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  To: arachne<mailto:lace@arachne.com> ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 12:52 AM
  Subject: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners


  It's been a while but today I took the time to test the video
  capabilites of my (photo) camera. Here's a video of me making
  hitches, without voice-over for now, but I intend to add some words
  later:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4w4rdRlZWE<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v
4w4rdRlZWE>

  Please tell me what you think - I'm not even sure if I do it right,
  since I learned from books only. But the methods I show work for me
  and I hope it will help beginners to get it right.

  Best, Achim.

  Am 11.09.2007 um 18:27 schrieb Achim Siebert:

  > uhoh, this will be difficult for me to explain as English is not my
  > mother tongue. Let's try:
  >
  > 1. I make the same loop as for a usual hitch (usually in the left
  > hand, holding the bobbin in the right).
  > 2. I lay the hitch over the bobbin, but don't let go off the loop
  > of thread
  > 3. I wind the thread of the loop two more times around the bobbin
  > head (anti-clockwise). For a double one I'd only wind one time extra.
  > 4. Only then will I pull tight the hitch.
  >
  >
  > Maybe I should put a little movie on youtube ;).
  >
  > Best, Achim in Berlin.
  >
  > 2007/9/11, Diane Williams
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>:
  > Okay, how do you make a triple hitch?
  >
  > Diane
  >

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Re: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners

[bevw]

Hi Achim and everyone

This is a brilliant demo! I use the first method, self-taught, even with a
lace teacher once upon a time - who simply directed us - no demo!
Some lacemakers like to tie the beginning of the thread to the bobbin. It
makes winding easier for them. I prefer the wrapping firmly over the cut
end. Saves fiddling later when changing thread (etc.).

The video is clear and deliberate, and words aren't necessary, although a
spoken description would reinforce the visuals, for those who really need it
:)

Excellent learning tool; well done.

On 10/15/07, Achim Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It's been a while but today I took the time to test the video
> capabilites of my (photo) camera. Here's a video of me making
> hitches, without voice-over for now, but I intend to add some words
> later:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4w4rdRlZWE
>
>

-- 
Bev in Sooke BC (on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)

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Re: [lace] hitches - video for beginners

[robinlace]

From: bevw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> As others will probably mention, you can wind in either direction as 
long as 
> you are consistent. i.e. all bobbins clockwise. or all bobbins 
> counterclockwise wound. 
> 

Personally, I only wind and hitch bobbins one way, because I have much 
too much trouble keeping the movements straight.  However, I was taught 
that choosing clock/counter winding should be determined by the fiber 
being wound.  I'm sure Brenda will correct this if I got it wrong, but 
I believe cotton thread is usually made with an S-twist and silk with a 
Z-twist.  [An S-twist thread spirals from upper-left to lower-right 
when you hold the thread vertically and look closely; a Z-twist thread 
goes from upper-right to lower-left.  Doesn't matter which end of the 
thread is up and which down.]  I forget whether linen is like cotton (I 
think so) or like silk. 

Thanks, Achim, for publishing the video.  I'm sure it will be a great 
help to new lacemakers trying to learn to hitch their bobbins.

Robin P. 
Los Angeles, California, USA 
(formerly Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re: [lace] hitches - video for beginners

[Achim Siebert]

Achim, Neat video, very easy to understand.


Thank you!


The first set you show the thread being wound anti-clockwise
then the next set "for cotton" shows the thread being wound
clockwise.  Why the difference?


Here's a very good explanation:
http://www.q7design.demon.co.uk/lacenotes/winding/wind.html

So saying "Clockwise for Cotton" in my video is not quite correct,  
but I thought it should suffice for someone only getting started,  
since most cotton threads in use today have a Z-twist. I'm usually  
winding bobbins anti-clockwise because I started with Bockens linnen  
thread which has an S-twist - and also because it just comes easier  
for me. When I used relatively thick cotton thread lately, I forgot  
to change the direction and it tended to loose it's twist, so maybe I  
had better wound that clockwise. Not sure if it really makes a lot of  
difference, though.


Best, Achim.

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Re: [lace] hitches - winding bobbins - twist

[bevw]

On 10/15/07, Achim Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Here's a very good explanation:
> http://www.q7design.demon.co.uk/lacenotes/winding/wind.html


.

 I forgot
> to change the direction and it tended to loose it's twist, so maybe I
> had better wound that clockwise. Not sure if it really makes a lot of
> difference, though.


When all is said and done, if the thread is taken  at right angles from its
put-up (the reel or skein) and wound onto the bobbin directly, maintaining
that angle, as shown in the final image of the web page on winding, it
shouldn't matter whether the thread is wound clock- or
counterclock-wise...unless you are using a single strand of thread, which
most of us don't for bobbin lace. Our threads are almost all 2- or 3-ply.
One of the reasons for plying strands together is to balance the natural
twist of the single strand. So - 2 single strands of fibre spun 'Z' are
plied in the opposite - S - direction to bring balance ... to the force...
of the twisting!

I do use a singles linen - "1-ply"  - for larger Torchon projects (I bought
a huge spool for a handweaving project that never got onto the loom) and
this thread does show its twist/untwist if one isn't careful. And yes it is
the reverse of cotton - however it is also heavily sized, and the linen
fibre is very long, which helps keep matters under control. I could, but
don't, wind the bobbins any differently than if I was using 2- or 3-ply
cotton or linen.

-- 
Bev in Sooke BC (on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)

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Re: [lace] hitches - video for beginners

[Brenda Paternoster]

I always wind my bobbins clockwise when looking down on the head, the 
way Achim does for cotton.  That's way I was taught to wind them, and I 
used to think that it was just a regional thing; clockwise in England 
and anti-clockwise on the continent (of Europe), much like English 
lacemakers usually work the foot side on the right, most continentals 
work it on the left.  Because I have always wound clockwise I find it 
very difficult to work on a pillow with bobbins wound anti-clockwise 
because the gradual unwinding becomes an automatic part of moving the 
bobbins around.


Until really quite recently it didn't occur to me that the direction of 
the thread spin might make a difference to the way bobbins are wound.  
I've never experienced a problem with winding/unwinding with S-twist or 
Z-twist, though I do mostly use Midlands bobbins which don't roll as 
much as continentals.  As Bev has pointed out, if the bobbin  is rolled 
into the thread rather than the thread wound around the bobbin there 
should be no extra twists introduced in either direction.


Robin, most linen threads are S-twist.  I believe that is because linen 
fibres have a natural tendency to twist in S direction.  The majority 
of cotton threads are Z-spun; that is because they are intended for use 
on a sewing machine of some sort, and the mechanism of all sewing 
machines is such that a Z-twist is tightened which is preferable to it 
getting untwisted by the sewing action.  The main exceptions to cotton 
being Z-twist are those which are specifically made for lacemaking; 
Egyptian gassed, Brok, and the old cotton slip threads.  It may well be 
that lacemakers of old who were used to Z-twist linen demanded Z-twist 
cotton (back in the days when lacemaking was a significant part of 
thread consumption!).  Pearl cotton and coton a broder are usually 
S-spun, and they are used for hand sewing.  I am right handed and my 
hand sewing tends to tighten an S-twist (the unstitched part of the 
thread will naturally twist in the Z direction)


Crochet cottons which are plied twice are usually 2S/3Z, which means 
that the 3Z is the more significant part.  The crocheting movements 
don't themselves twist the thread but the stitches (treble, double 
treble etc) do lean slightly to the left when made by a right handed 
crocheter, and that would be balanced by a Z twist.


Silk is spun in either direction - if it's primarily intended for 
machine sewing it will be Z-spun, if for hand sewing it will be S-spun.


I would suggest that the most important thing is to roll the bobbin 
into the thread (the way Achim does) to avoid tightening or loosening 
the manufactured spin.  Secondly, ensure that all the bobbins on the 
pillow are wound in the same way to enable consistant working practices 
 Thirdly, if you do choose to vary the direction according to the 
thread look at its construction rather than the fibre content.


Brenda

On 16 Oct 2007, at 04:30, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


From: bevw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

As others will probably mention, you can wind in either direction as

long as

you are consistent. i.e. all bobbins clockwise. or all bobbins
counterclockwise wound.



Personally, I only wind and hitch bobbins one way, because I have much
too much trouble keeping the movements straight.  However, I was taught
that choosing clock/counter winding should be determined by the fiber
being wound.  I'm sure Brenda will correct this if I got it wrong, but
I believe cotton thread is usually made with an S-twist and silk with a
Z-twist.  [An S-twist thread spirals from upper-left to lower-right
when you hold the thread vertically and look closely; a Z-twist thread
goes from upper-right to lower-left.  Doesn't matter which end of the
thread is up and which down.]  I forget whether linen is like cotton (I
think so) or like silk.

Thanks, Achim, for publishing the video.  I'm sure it will be a great
help to new lacemakers trying to learn to hitch their bobbins.

Robin P.
Los Angeles, California, USA
(formerly Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

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Re: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners

[Carol Adkinson]

Hi All,

I agree - the video clip is beautifully done!

I would add that I am one who always ties the thread onto the bobbin - not 
to make the winding of said bobbins easier, but to make sure I never lose 
any bobbins if they run! I demonstrate all over the place and, like most 
of us, have seen the way bobbins try to escape - at least if the thread is 
tied onto the bobbin, the bobbin may well run, but it won't get lost.


I also have a lot of glass bobbins, with several usually on each pillow. 
If they are tied, then they don't usually hit the floor is they run, which 
saves a lot of aggravation over broken glass bobbins!


However, it is, again, one of those things - we do it the way we want to do 
it!


Carol - in Suffolk UK

- Original Message - 
From: "bevw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Achim Siebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "arachne" 
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners



Hi Achim and everyone

This is a brilliant demo! 


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Re: [lace] Hitches - video for beginners

[bevw]

Hi Carol and everyone

That is a good argument for tying the thread to the bobbins - to prevent the
release of bobbins from their tethers at public places e.g. when the
lacemaker's back is turned! I'll keep it in mind for a future demo occasion.

On 10/17/07, Carol Adkinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I would add that I am one who always ties the thread onto the bobbin - not
> to make the winding of said bobbins easier, but to make sure I never lose
> any bobbins if they run! I demonstrate all over the place and, like
> most
> of us, have seen the way bobbins try to escape - at least if the thread is
> tied onto the bobbin, the bobbin may well run, but it won't get lost.
>
> However, it is, again, one of those things - we do it the way we want to
> do
> it!
>

And we like it that way :)))

-- 
Bev in Sooke BC (on beautiful Vancouver Island, west coast of Canada)

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Re: [lace] hitches - video for beginners

[Achim Siebert]

Thank you, Brenda, for the good explanation.


The main exceptions to cotton being Z-twist are those which are
specifically made for lacemaking; Egyptian gassed, Brok, and the
old cotton slip threads.


So I can keep my preferred way of winding the bobbins (anti-
clockwise) with the Egyptian cotton I use for Buckspoint - great to
know!


  It may well be that lacemakers of old who were used to Z-twist
linen demanded Z-twist cotton


Shouldn't that be "S-twist" in this sentence? They were used to S-
twist linen, weren't they?

Twisted, Achim.

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Re: [lace] hitches - video for beginners

[Brenda Paternoster]

Achim's right - I should have said  It may well be that lacemakers of 
old who were used to S-twist

linen demanded S-twist cotton.  Burning the midnight oil!

Brenda


On 17 Oct 2007, at 19:29, Achim Siebert wrote:




  It may well be that lacemakers of old who were used to Z-twist
linen demanded Z-twist cotton


Shouldn't that be "S-twist" in this sentence? They were used to S-
twist linen, weren't they?


Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

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Re: [lace] hitches - video for beginners

[Achim Siebert]

Not easy to get all this straightened out (scnr) - and since it can  
be so confusing I tried to avoid to put anything about that into the  
video. And imagine David who's even doing it upside down!


Achim.

Am 17.10.2007 um 22:07 schrieb Brenda Paternoster:

Achim's right - I should have said  It may well be that lacemakers  
of old who were used to S-twist

linen demanded S-twist cotton.  Burning the midnight oil!

Brenda


On 17 Oct 2007, at 19:29, Achim Siebert wrote:




  It may well be that lacemakers of old who were used to Z-twist
linen demanded Z-twist cotton


Shouldn't that be "S-twist" in this sentence? They were used to S-
twist linen, weren't they?


Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html



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Re: [lace] hitches - video for beginners

[David in Ballarat]

At 06:10 PM 18/10/2007, Achim Siebert wrote:

Not easy to get all this straightened out (scnr) - and since it can
be so confusing I tried to avoid to put anything about that into the
video. And imagine David who's even doing it upside down!


Yes, but fortunately I now know that I am definitely ambidextrous :)
David in Ballarat

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Re: [lace] hitches on the bobbin

[Sister Claire]

Hi Wendy,

This is probably way too elementary for you, but I was having the worst time
with my bobbins coming undone - for years! - until I got the courage to ask
on this list. My problem was that I was doing the hitches in the wrong
direction. Are you doing yours the right way? The wrap for the hitch should
be in the direction opposite to the direction on the bobbin.

Once I changed that, I was reborn as a lacemaker! The hitches (just one)
hold beautifully yet are just as easy as ever to release when I need more
thread.

Good luck,
Sr. Claire

On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Wendy Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Hi De Hi Spiders
>
> Just wondering how many hitches do you do at the top of your bobbins to
> told
> the thread.  I do two on mine but I am finding it a bother when I need to
> lengthen the thread is there any other way that is quick to release but
> hold
> without me finding the bobbin on the floor.
>
> thanks
>
> Wendy St Dogmaels
> _
> Win New York holidays with Kellogg's & Live Search
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
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>

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RE: [lace] hitches on the bobbin

[Karen]

Throughout my years of lacemaking I have found that two hitches only work
well when there is a space on the head for them (i.e. a groove to hold only
the hitch). Otherwise, they just sink into the thread and make life
miserable! Some threads will always be a pain to work with because they slip
no matter which way you do the hitch!
Karen in Malta

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Sister Claire
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 4:39 PM
To: Wendy Davies
Cc: lace@arachne.com
Subject: Re: [lace] hitches on the bobbin

Hi Wendy,

This is probably way too elementary for you, but I was having the worst time
with my bobbins coming undone - for years! - until I got the courage to ask
on this list. My problem was that I was doing the hitches in the wrong
direction. Are you doing yours the right way? The wrap for the hitch should
be in the direction opposite to the direction on the bobbin.

Once I changed that, I was reborn as a lacemaker! The hitches (just one)
hold beautifully yet are just as easy as ever to release when I need more
thread.

Good luck,
Sr. Claire

On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Wendy Davies
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Hi De Hi Spiders
>
> Just wondering how many hitches do you do at the top of your bobbins to
> told
> the thread.  I do two on mine but I am finding it a bother when I need to
> lengthen the thread is there any other way that is quick to release but
> hold
> without me finding the bobbin on the floor.
>
> thanks
>
> Wendy St Dogmaels
> _
> Win New York holidays with Kellogg's & Live Search
>
> -
> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
> unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

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Re: [lace] hitches on the bobbin

[Diana Smith]

I make mostly Bucks Point lace with fairly fine thread and I use two hitches 
sometime three. This maybe depends on the bobbin as some seem to slip. Also 
some heads don't have a deep enough groove to hold the hitch, in which case 
I put the hitch on the long neck with the thread.
I use and collect old bobbins and its interesting how many of them have been 
worn away on the short neck through wear from the friction of the thread. 
Many Jesse Compton bobbins have lost their top through this wear and tear.


Diana in Northants

- Original Message - 
From: "Wendy Davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 2:27 PM
Subject: [lace] hitches on the bobbin



Hi De Hi Spiders

Just wondering how many hitches do you do at the top of your bobbins to 
told

the thread.  I do two on mine but I am finding it a bother when I need to
lengthen the thread is there any other way that is quick to release but 
hold

without me finding the bobbin on the floor.

thanks

Wendy St Dogmaels
_
Win New York holidays with Kellogg's & Live Search

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Re: [lace] hitches on the bobbin

[David in Ballarat]

Dear Diana and others interested.

I make mostly Bucks Point lace with fairly fine thread and I use two 
hitches sometime three. This maybe depends on the bobbin as some seem to slip.


I trouble understanding this. Surely you must be making your hitch 
incorrectly. I know we've discussed this here before on numerous 
occasions, and as Sr Claire said, she had been making her hitch 
wrongly for years.


I too do mainly point ground laces usually in very fine 2/20 silk, 
but sometimes in silk which is finer than human hair. I have never 
found the need for more than one hitch. Mind you, I also never use 
the heads on the bobbins, but put the single hitch on the thread 
itself. Stays beautifully all the time

Bye now
David in Ballarat

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Re: [lace] hitches on the bobbin

[Malvary J Cole]

Wendy - I think from your description that you are doing two separate 
hitches on the bobbin, if so I can understand why it doesn't unroll easily.


Have you tried doing one hitch but with the thread going round the neck of 
the bobbin twice instead of once.  I do that sometimes with some stubborn 
threads that don't want to stay on the bobbin and with some bobbins that 
don't want to hang on to the thread properly although I'm gradually weaning 
those out of my collection.


Malvary in Ottawa. 


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Re: [lace] Hitches and winding bobbins

[robinlace]

From: Leonard Bazar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
You did mention she can't
> see the point of keeping the threads the same length. 
> A tidy desk may be the symptom of an empty mind, but a
> neat lace pillow is a pleasure to work on as well as
> to see!  

As one who doesn't keep *anything* else tidy, I can suggest another reason for 
keeping the threads the same length.  This makes handling the bobbins a whole 
lot easier, and will probably also help with the renegades.  If one tether is 
longer than the other(s) when manipulating a quartet, it's hard to twist/cross 
them without them tangling--unless you hold the longer one such that its tether 
is flopping loose (so the bobbin is in the same place as the rest of the 
quartet).  This *encourages* the hitch to leap off!  This may be the root of 
her problem.  When the teacher tidies up her pillow, the bobbins behave.  Then 
when she Penelopes and rewinds to odd lengths, she has trouble again.

Robin P.
Los Angeles, California, USA
(formerly  Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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