Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] To make things thing even more complicated I agree the need of a name with a sounding image, which will help mod_perl to grow into corporate computing (our future jobs). Recently I had a discussion with a Java programmer, who said that mod_perl is a try to save the obsolete language Perl. His argument was that only Java programmers are searched, especially here in Europe. So I see three requirements: - Having a name and logo which tells the truth, it's Perl and it was good. - The name should defer to Perl, should be it's own brand. - The sounding must be stronger then API Please go back to the marketing people and tell them to smoke somewhere else. o) mod_perl is the perl apache module. Apache modules are called mod_foo.c. o) It is just an interface to the Apache API. o) We've had this discussion several times before; I even had to check the year on the postings to be sure that I was not replying to an old thread. Please stop. - ask -- ask bjoern hansen, http://ask.netcetera.dk/ !try; do(); more than a billion impressions per week, http://valueclick.com
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
:: I actually like the logo without the underscore. I don't :: think an underscore is very collaborative with art. The _ :: has always been irritating me a little. I don't see any reason why the underscore can't be incorporated discreetly. I had an idea that we could have the dp together (like in the new logo) with a small underscore directly beneath them. :: I know that there is history and nostalgia involved here but :: dropping an underscore at least in the logo is a nice :: evolution IMHO. The whole mod_ just happens to be the :: original Apache naming convention for modules, I believe, :: and let's not forget that the Apache folks never thought :: they would get the kind of success they have. Given the :: choice, I don't think they would have stuck with this kind :: of naming convention. This doesn't matter. The simple fact is, the name is mod_perl. It's established, known and the author has stated quite clearly that it will not change. :: The underscore really belongs to the C/C++ language and :: isn't really so much of a standard in Perl. True, Perl, :: Apache and mod_perl are all children of C/C++ but they :: should have some independence - they are in their :: adolescence now (if not even adults). If the underscore belongs anywhere, then it also belongs in Perl. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
:: I agree here. But then, TMTOWTDI is a big part of Perl :: culture. I suggest a democratic solution: present the logo :: and the favorite logo-based button as the logo and button. :: Then, also present a page which has some alternate buttons :: on it, including the two winners of the present contest. :: Make the page with the official logo and button easy to find :: so users will see it first. But an important part of any product is its brand. I personally believe that the logo/button/banner should be uniform throughout, with one font and one colour scheme. One area where we do have creative license is with banners - providing that the recognised mod_perl logo still features within. :: Since there was a landslide winner I would say there is :: probably no need for alternate logos although it may be :: interesting for historical reasons (the Google logo archives :: do it the right way, in my opinion: :: http://www.google.com/stickers.html). The logos at http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ will remain online forever for historical/nostalgic purposes. :: DRI really like the :: new logo, and in fact I voted for it. However, I :: DRjust realized that the logo uses modperl, whereas :: mod_perl's name :: DRis mod_perl, with the underscore. Does anyone else see :: this as a :: DRproblem? :: :: BMIt's a graphic design so I don't see that it needs to follow the :: BMApache module naming convention exactly... It's a design -- it :: BMdoesn't have to be accurate to the name. :: :: I agree with both these statements. I think the issue isn't :: that the design must follow the name, but that users often :: get confused between the two, and if the design doesn't :: follow the name, that confusion will certainly be :: exacerbated. Of course, this is probably not a big problem :: as long as the conventional term is used in the :: documentation and website and as long as modperl on Google :: leads to the mod_perl site. I think the logo should feature an underscore, however it's used. We are promoting a brand, a product... its name needs to be consistent wherever it's used - how else will we get pointy-haired bosses to recognise it? :: I might also point out that any mod_perl hostnames come out :: as modperl (since underscores are not allowed in hostnames) :: and that modperl is often used as a directory name even :: though underscores ARE allowed in filenames. I don't think that's relevant at all. People name their files and directories in whatever way suits them. And hostnames, well that's just a convention we can do nothing about and, thus, a non-issue. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
:: A thought - what about putting the suggestion of an :: underscore by putting bars underneath the d and p of :: modperl? Just a suggestion to Michael as presumably he is :: revisting the design for the buttons. I had a similar idea - a single bar under the dp yet keeping the dp together. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
Could you make it flaming? ;) -Original Message- From: Matt Sergeant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:31 PM To: Jonathan M. Hollin Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in... OK, here's my attempt at SVGing the logo. Works in Adobe's SVG viewer (Linux and Windows). I'll work on animating it next (making the cog spin). -- !-- Matt -- :-Get a smart net/:-
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
Mark Fowler wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
However, I request your comments on this idea: should we have just one
button (helping to develop a distinct identity for mod_perl) or should
we have several (for choice)? It's up to you...
I think that we need one theme of buttons, to ensure consistent
branding. As per my comments when I voted stated, I'd love to see some
buttons/logos based on the winning logo. In particular:
- A square button that's just made up of the square cog logo
- A square button that's just made up of a grey m and a blue p
- A small rectangle version of the words modperl without the cog
...you get the idea, variations around a central design
Also, we could do with both a monochrome and a black and white version of
the logo (for print.)
Is the logo available in a vector file format so that we can easily make
scaled copies of it? Or are we restricted to the pixel banners that
currently exist?
Later.
Mark.
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
I definitely agree with this. I'd like to see some more colour
variations (maybe just background colours even) to allow it to fit into
a site's design better.
Jonathan asked whether we should have just one button, or several. I'd
say just one theme, with several variations as mentioned above.
Others have suggested several buttons and I'm assuming they mean with
differing themes. I'm against that, as the point of a logo is to
reinforce the branding of mod_perl. Of course, if people don't want to
use this theme, they won't. That's fine. That's no worse than the
current situation.
Finally, I think the mod_perl/modperl/ModPerl/Mod_perl thing is a
non-issue. We all know what is being talked about, right? It's nowhere
near as bad as the .gif hard 'G' or soft 'G' or the vi V.I. versus
'vie' problems.
Steve
--
Steve Piner
Web Applications Developer
Marketview Limited
http://www.marketview.co.nz
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Steve Piner wrote: I definitely agree with this. I'd like to see some more colour variations (maybe just background colours even) to allow it to fit into a site's design better. Jonathan asked whether we should have just one button, or several. I'd say just one theme, with several variations as mentioned above. This is dead easy to do with the SVG version. Feel free to hack around with it. -- !-- Matt -- :-Get a smart net/:-
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
DRI really like the new logo, and in fact I voted for it. However, I just DRrealized that the logo uses modperl, whereas mod_perl's name is DRmod_perl, with the underscore. Does anyone else see this as a problem? BMIt's a graphic design so I don't see that it needs to follow the Apache BMmodule naming convention exactly... It's a design -- it doesn't have to BMbe accurate to the name. A thought - what about putting the suggestion of an underscore by putting bars underneath the d and p of modperl? Just a suggestion to Michael as presumably he is revisting the design for the buttons. J
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
A thought - what about putting the suggestion of an underscore by putting bars underneath the d and p of modperl? Just a suggestion to Michael as presumably he is revisting the design for the buttons. This is a funny discussion. Although not my favorite Logo has been elected, I confirm the need of a uniform design over all logo representations! so why do we cling to mod_perl as a name? i suppose for the familiar historical reasons, it's a fond term of endearment to us. but it would be more descriptive to call it The Apache perl API or Apache-Embedded perl, would it not? it behooves us to ride along on Apache's name-recognition doesn't it? To make things thing even more complicated I agree the need of a name with a sounding image, which will help mod_perl to grow into corporate computing (our future jobs). Recently I had a discussion with a Java programmer, who said that mod_perl is a try to save the obsolete language Perl. His argument was that only Java programmers are searched, especially here in Europe. So I see three requirements: - Having a name and logo which tells the truth, it's Perl and it was good. - The name should defer to Perl, should be it's own brand. - The sounding must be stronger then API putting bars underneath the d and p of modperl? Just a suggestion First I liked the idea 'DP' oder 'dPerl'. On the other hand we have the A, which stands for Apache, Application ... A is first, is best. So I came to aPerl or Parl 'Practical Application R* Language'? On and on just some funny thoughts :-) BR Christian == beginn original == Date: Freitag, 15. März 2002, 11:03:59 Subject: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in... Fellow mod_perl hackers... It is with great pleasure that I am able to introduce you to the new mod_perl logo. So, without further ado, point your web-browsers at: http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/winner/ The winning logo, designed by Michael Demers (mike [at] inteo.com), won by a very clear majority. Congratulations Mike, and thanks for a great effort! The new mod_perl button vote resulted in a tie between two designs: Juergen Spechts' (the existing button) and new design by Tyler Rorabaugh. Following a brief discussion with Stas (stas [at] stason.org), I think it might be a good idea to have several mod_perl buttons, the idea being that a designer can then choose a button that doesn't conflict with his/her design. However, I request your comments on this idea: should we have just one button (helping to develop a distinct identity for mod_perl) or should we have several (for choice)? It's up to you... Thank you to everyone who participated in this project. Kudos to the designers for their efforts. Thanks to Stas for his input and ideas, and Eric Cholet for the voting script. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/ === end original
Re: [OT][ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
On Sat, 2002-03-16 at 08:01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently I had a discussion with a Java programmer, who said that mod_perl is a try to save the obsolete language Perl. His argument was that only Java programmers are searched, especially here in Europe. Interesting. I have a friend that works for Sun whos job it is to find companies and products that use Java and compile them into a database of success stories. His job has become increasingly difficult over the past year. Arguments about being obsolete aside, of Java and Perl, one language is seems to be growing and one seems to be dying...
[ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
Fellow mod_perl hackers... It is with great pleasure that I am able to introduce you to the new mod_perl logo. So, without further ado, point your web-browsers at: http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/winner/ The winning logo, designed by Michael Demers (mike [at] inteo.com), won by a very clear majority. Congratulations Mike, and thanks for a great effort! The new mod_perl button vote resulted in a tie between two designs: Juergen Spechts' (the existing button) and new design by Tyler Rorabaugh. Following a brief discussion with Stas (stas [at] stason.org), I think it might be a good idea to have several mod_perl buttons, the idea being that a designer can then choose a button that doesn't conflict with his/her design. However, I request your comments on this idea: should we have just one button (helping to develop a distinct identity for mod_perl) or should we have several (for choice)? It's up to you... Thank you to everyone who participated in this project. Kudos to the designers for their efforts. Thanks to Stas for his input and ideas, and Eric Cholet for the voting script. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:
However, I request your comments on this idea: should we have just one
button (helping to develop a distinct identity for mod_perl) or should
we have several (for choice)? It's up to you...
I think that we need one theme of buttons, to ensure consistent
branding. As per my comments when I voted stated, I'd love to see some
buttons/logos based on the winning logo. In particular:
- A square button that's just made up of the square cog logo
- A square button that's just made up of a grey m and a blue p
- A small rectangle version of the words modperl without the cog
...you get the idea, variations around a central design
Also, we could do with both a monochrome and a black and white version of
the logo (for print.)
Is the logo available in a vector file format so that we can easily make
scaled copies of it? Or are we restricted to the pixel banners that
currently exist?
Later.
Mark.
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
In article 001401c1cc08$bab4f2b0$b1a1a8c2@orpheus, Jonathan M. Hollin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I request your comments on this idea... Was there a button in the same style as the winning logo? Could Michael be persuaded to create one if not? I'm inclined to think a new logo is little use if you're not consistent with the imagery it uses. Tying a button design into that imagery is, IMO, essential. All the best, Andrew. -- perl -MLWP::Simple -e 'getprint(http://www.article7.co.uk/res/japh.txt;);'
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
:: I think that we need one theme of buttons, to ensure :: consistent branding. As per my comments when I voted :: stated, I'd love to see some buttons/logos based on the :: winning logo. In particular: :: :: - A square button that's just made up of the square cog logo :: - A square button that's just made up of a grey m and a blue p :: - A small rectangle version of the words modperl without the cog :: :: ...you get the idea, variations around a central design :: :: Also, we could do with both a monochrome and a black and :: white version of :: the logo (for print.) Personally, I agree. I'll forward your email on to Michael and we'll see how he responds. :: Is the logo available in a vector file format so that we can :: easily make :: scaled copies of it? Or are we restricted to the pixel banners that :: currently exist? All I have is non-vector JPEG. Again, I'll ask Michael. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
:: Was there a button in the same style as the winning logo? :: Could Michael be persuaded to create one if not? :: :: I'm inclined to think a new logo is little use if you're not :: consistent with the imagery it uses. Tying a button design :: into that imagery is, IMO, essential. I will forward your email on to Michael (who designed the winning logo). Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: :: Is the logo available in a vector file format so that we can :: easily make :: scaled copies of it? Or are we restricted to the pixel banners that :: currently exist? All I have is non-vector JPEG. Again, I'll ask Michael. If we can find out what the font is, I'd enjoy trying to do an SVG version (I just bought an SVG book, so I'm enjoying playing). -- !-- Matt -- :-Get a smart net/:-
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
Hi ( 02.03.15 10:03 - ) Jonathan M. Hollin: However, I request your comments on this idea: should we have just one button (helping to develop a distinct identity for mod_perl) or should we have several (for choice)? It's up to you... TMTOWTDI, of course- multiple buttons! -- \js scale transparent e-tailers
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
:: Was there a button in the same style as the winning logo? :: Could Michael be persuaded to create one if not? :: :: I'm inclined to think a new logo is little use if you're not :: consistent with the imagery it uses. Tying a button design :: into that imagery is, IMO, essential. Michael Demers (the designer) will submit a few buttons, to match his logo design, in the near future. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
I think buttons based on the new logo are the way to go. -Original Message- From: Jonathan M. Hollin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:17 AM To: 'Andrew Green'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in... :: Was there a button in the same style as the winning logo? :: Could Michael be persuaded to create one if not? :: :: I'm inclined to think a new logo is little use if you're not :: consistent with the imagery it uses. Tying a button design :: into that imagery is, IMO, essential. Michael Demers (the designer) will submit a few buttons, to match his logo design, in the near future. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
All, I really like the new logo, and in fact I voted for it. However, I just realized that the logo uses modperl, whereas mod_perl's name is mod_perl, with the underscore. Does anyone else see this as a problem? I've always been annoyed at how often the spelling gets modified, and it seems that the logo as it is now would add to the confusion. Am I just picking nits? -Dave David Ranney Senior Web Applications Developer e-Perception, Inc. (909) 587-8773
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
David Ranney wrote: All, I really like the new logo, and in fact I voted for it. However, I just realized that the logo uses modperl, whereas mod_perl's name is mod_perl, with the underscore. Does anyone else see this as a problem? I've always been annoyed at how often the spelling gets modified, and it seems that the logo as it is now would add to the confusion. Am I just picking nits? no, I'd agree here. it's mod_perl, not Mod_perl, not Mod_Perl, not modperl... --Geoff
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
Hi there, On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, David Ranney wrote: I really like the new logo, and in fact I voted for it. However, I just realized that the logo uses modperl, whereas mod_perl's name is mod_perl, with the underscore. Does anyone else see this as a problem? I've always been annoyed at how often the spelling gets modified, and it seems that the logo as it is now would add to the confusion. Am I just picking nits? You are quite right. It's definitely not picking nits, it's important. 73, Ged.
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
At 10:46 PM 3/15/2002, John Saylor wrote: Hi ( 02.03.15 10:03 - ) Jonathan M. Hollin: However, I request your comments on this idea: should we have just one button (helping to develop a distinct identity for mod_perl) or should we have several (for choice)? It's up to you... TMTOWTDI, of course- multiple buttons! Those of us who have seen the movie Office Space know these as Flair. At least 14 are mandatory! :)
RE: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
:: I really like the new logo, and in fact I voted for it. :: However, I just realized that the logo uses modperl, :: whereas mod_perl's name is mod_perl, with the underscore. :: Does anyone else see this as a problem? I've always been :: annoyed at how often the spelling gets modified, and it :: seems that the logo as it is now would add to the confusion. :: Am I just picking nits? This has been a addressed. A cleaned-up logo will be appearing shortly. As will a vector-based version (so we can get t-shirts printed :-) )... Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ -- Temporarily off-line http://wypug.digital-word.com/
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Fellow mod_perl hackers... It is with great pleasure that I am able to introduce you to the new mod_perl logo. So, without further ado, point your web-browsers at: http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/winner/ The winning logo, designed by Michael Demers (mike [at] inteo.com), won by a very clear majority. Congratulations Mike, and thanks for a great effort! I like it. I voted for a different one, but I like this one the best. I must have overlooked it when voting. However, I request your comments on this idea: should we have just one button (helping to develop a distinct identity for mod_perl) or should we have several (for choice)? It's up to you... A single button that matches the logo will be simplier, and more distinct. Too many choices is making it harder for the newcomers. Wim
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
The underscore really belongs to the C/C++ language and isn't really so much of a standard in Perl. Not true. From perlstyle: While short identifiers like $gotit are probably ok, use underscores to separate words. It is generally easier to read $var_names_like_this than $VarNamesLikeThis, especially for non-native speakers of English. It's also a simple rule that works consistently with VAR_NAMES_LIKE_THIS. --Ade.
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
At 04:33 PM 03/15/02 -0500, Georgy Vladimirov wrote: I actually like the logo without the underscore. I don't think an underscore is very collaborative with art. The _ has always been irritating me a little. I know that there is history and nostalgia involved here but dropping an underscore at least in the logo is a nice evolution IMHO. I also agree with this, and is one of the reasons (I think) I voted for that design. It's a graphic design so I don't see that it needs to follow the Apache module naming convention exactly. Nor perl identifier names, either. Many of the designs offered didn't use the underscore as well. And the design that won didn't use one. It's a design -- it doesn't have to be accurate to the name. Besides, if it changes does it mean that the winning design received no votes? ;) -- Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...
Hello, WKA single button that matches the logo will be simplier, and more WKdistinct. Too many choices is making it harder for the newcomers. I agree here. But then, TMTOWTDI is a big part of Perl culture. I suggest a democratic solution: present the logo and the favorite logo-based button as the logo and button. Then, also present a page which has some alternate buttons on it, including the two winners of the present contest. Make the page with the official logo and button easy to find so users will see it first. Since there was a landslide winner I would say there is probably no need for alternate logos although it may be interesting for historical reasons (the Google logo archives do it the right way, in my opinion: http://www.google.com/stickers.html). DRI really like the new logo, and in fact I voted for it. However, I just DRrealized that the logo uses modperl, whereas mod_perl's name is DRmod_perl, with the underscore. Does anyone else see this as a problem? BMIt's a graphic design so I don't see that it needs to follow the Apache BMmodule naming convention exactly... It's a design -- it doesn't have to BMbe accurate to the name. I agree with both these statements. I think the issue isn't that the design must follow the name, but that users often get confused between the two, and if the design doesn't follow the name, that confusion will certainly be exacerbated. Of course, this is probably not a big problem as long as the conventional term is used in the documentation and website and as long as modperl on Google leads to the mod_perl site. I might also point out that any mod_perl hostnames come out as modperl (since underscores are not allowed in hostnames) and that modperl is often used as a directory name even though underscores ARE allowed in filenames. Humbly, Andrew -- Andrew Ho http://www.tellme.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice 650-930-9062 Tellme Networks, Inc. 1-800-555-TELLFax 650-930-9101 --
What's in a name? (was: Re: [ANNOUNCE] The New mod_perl logo - results now in...)
Georgy Vladimirov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually like the logo without the underscore. I don't think an underscore is very collaborative with art. The _ has always been irritating me a little. I know that there is history and nostalgia involved here but dropping an underscore at least in the logo is a nice evolution IMHO. The whole mod_ just happens to be the original Apache naming convention i agree. mod_perl looks like more like a variable name than a technology, much less a *brand*. it has a certain coolness factor all it's own, but the coolness is lost on anyone who isn't a programmer, or more specifically, a mod_perl programmer! it just inspires more questions than answers. i cannot tell you how many times i've told someone i was a mod_perl programmer and then watched as the eyes of my prospective employer glazed over as they apparently thought, a what programmer? is that like a computer programmer? okay maybe i wouldn't have been happy working for those folks anyway, but sometimes you'd be happy working for any folks and *those* are the times we wish mod_perl had a glossier finish, more brand recognition, maybe some buzz in some business magazines and, you know, the fame that it deserves. i'm sure that many business executives who have very immediate problems that mod_perl (and a mod_perl programmer) could easily solve read (what little there is) in the press about mod_perl and wonder, how does one pronounce this? mod-underscore-perl? what does *mod* mean? if it was an acronym they could at least investigate what the letters stood for, and then look up those words. but mod_ just seems to be whimsically short for... --something. modified perl? modern perl? is it pronounced moad maybe? is it modal? it's an apache thing? well, why didn't you *say* so? (apache gets a pretty good amount of buzz, even out there in the non-programmer world, for an open-source technology). some other webserver-specific language API names are easier to fathom. some are even easier to pronounce. ISAPI is easily spoken and easy to fathom (once one knows what the letters stand for) if not so easy to afford. NSAPI is similarly fathomable. a CEO can even find out what CGI is, without having to embarrass themselves by asking a geek. so why do we cling to mod_perl as a name? i suppose for the familiar historical reasons, it's a fond term of endearment to us. but it would be more descriptive to call it The Apache perl API or Apache-Embedded perl, would it not? it behooves us to ride along on Apache's name-recognition doesn't it? mod_perl, as a name simply does not do justice to the most powerfule and popular programming language on Earth, embedded into the most powerful and popular webserver on Earth, does it? no, of course not. so i say we ditch the new logo (though i did vote for it and do like it a lot, sans_underscore and all) and propose that we change the name summarily and forthwith TO: (drum roll, please...) The Apache-perl API (or tApAPI for short) it's pronounceable, alliterative, memorable and hey, it almost rhymes with Apache! ok, and slap-happy. well either that or Grape Apey, but let's not go there. what more could anyone want in a name? -dave
[OT] New mod_perl logo (revisited)
I apologise in advance to those of you who receive multiple copies of this email due to my cross-posting. Due to the instability of its previous host, I have moved the mod_perl logo entries to my new Linux box (my apologies to those who were unable to review the images previously due to the inordinate down-time). The images are now available at http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ Also, I have now added html pages to each directory with the images displayed inline - thanks to Stas Bekman (stas[at]stason.org) who contributed his ls2html Perl script for that purpose. I am still soliciting entries for the new logo (send to mod_perl[at]digital-word.com)... so please keep those images coming. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/
Re: [OT] New mod_perl logo (revisited)
Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: I apologise in advance to those of you who receive multiple copies of this email due to my cross-posting. Due to the instability of its previous host, I have moved the mod_perl logo entries to my new Linux box (my apologies to those who were unable to review the images previously due to the inordinate down-time). The images are now available at http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ Also, I have now added html pages to each directory with the images displayed inline - thanks to Stas Bekman (stas[at]stason.org) who contributed his ls2html Perl script for that purpose. I am still soliciting entries for the new logo (send to mod_perl[at]digital-word.com)... so please keep those images coming. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ personally id have to say i like this one the best louise_bramald_1.jpg id love to see it with the camel a bit bigger
Re: [OT] New mod_perl logo (revisited)
On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:35:18 -, Jonathan M. Hollin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I am still soliciting entries for the new logo (send to mod_perl[at]digital-word.com)... so please keep those images coming. What about entering the old logo as a competitor as well? I think I'd vote for it. Or is there any reason why there must be a new logo? -- andreas
Re: [OT] New mod_perl logo (revisited)
Andreas J. Koenig wrote: On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:35:18 -, Jonathan M. Hollin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I am still soliciting entries for the new logo (send to mod_perl[at]digital-word.com)... so please keep those images coming. What about entering the old logo as a competitor as well? I think I'd vote for it. Or is there any reason why there must be a new logo? Andreas, all the logos from the first contest are in the competition. The ones we use now are there too: http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/logos/raul_a_ligad_1.jpg http://beverley2.digital-word.com/mod_perl/buttons/juergen_specht.gif On the other hand is there a deadline for this contest? Would be nice to decide on the logo(s) before we finish the new site, which should be very soon now. _ Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: [OT] New mod_perl logo (revisited)
On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:51:23 +0800, Stas Bekman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Andreas, all the logos from the first contest are in the competition. blush Sorry I missed it. Thanks for bearing with me. -- andreas
[REMINDER] New mod_perl Logo
A growing number of potential candidates for the new mod_perl logo is available at: http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
mod_perl is a lousy name. It is causing me a problem. My potential customers have heard of Perl and Apache, MySql and Postgres, but they dot like the idea of perl modifying the Apache processing. It strikes them as tinkering round with the internals and liable to cause problems 'when we upgrade' or 'move to another platform'. It also does not look good on a resume when you are sending it to someone who has never heard of it. You are never quite sure whether to Wordcap it or not. Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. Anything will do, WebBlast, Insiouxiance, Perlandra, Exsight, Insite, HowtoSite - I really do not mind. Regards - Paul Cotter
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Paul Cotter wrote: Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. didn't you people read perrin's message? do you think this is the first time this topic has been discussed? do you think it's gonna change doug's mind /this/ time? if you can't sell your customers and bosses on mod_perl because of its technological appropriateness, the name of the software is the least of your problems.
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Jay Lawrence wrote: I looked at some of the candidates at http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ must confess I am partial to http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/logos/louise_bramald_1.jpg so far Thinking camels for Perl and feathers for Apache putting them together all I could see is flying camels - is that too close to flaming logos? That's my 0.02CAD which is substantially less than 0.02USD... ;-) J I really don't want to see this topic going out of control, but I had to add something here: didn't we have a discussion about this months ago? I seem to remember an idea of a camel with a headband with the Apache feather... I'm sure that's not my own idea. Issac
Re: New mod_perl Logo
How could another name look nice on your resume if they don't know what it is ? Why don't you just nickname mod_perl as something else and then put THAT name on your resume if you are so concerned about naming. At 09:36 PM 1/30/2002, Paul Cotter wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. It is causing me a problem. My potential customers have heard of Perl and Apache, MySql and Postgres, but they dot like the idea of perl modifying the Apache processing. It strikes them as tinkering round with the internals and liable to cause problems 'when we upgrade' or 'move to another platform'. It also does not look good on a resume when you are sending it to someone who has never heard of it. You are never quite sure whether to Wordcap it or not. Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. Anything will do, WebBlast, Insiouxiance, Perlandra, Exsight, Insite, HowtoSite - I really do not mind. Regards - Paul Cotter __ Gunther Birznieks ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) eXtropia - The Open Web Technology Company http://www.eXtropia.com/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
At 04:50 PM 1/31/2002, brian moseley wrote: On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Paul Cotter wrote: Give it some other marketting name, even if it keeps its original name in places like this. didn't you people read perrin's message? do you think this is the first time this topic has been discussed? do you think it's gonna change doug's mind /this/ time? if you can't sell your customers and bosses on mod_perl because of its technological appropriateness, the name of the software is the least of your problems. I was thinking if we renamed mod_perl as George Bush it would do quite well in the political polls. Might even be elected for president. And then we'd rule the country!!
New mod_perl logo - revisited
Reminder: A growing collection of new mod_perl logo candidates is available at: http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Paul How about attaching a copy of _the_ mod_perl book each time you send out your resume. The recipients should be impressed and thus realize it's a Real Program, and I'm sure the authors would consider a bulk discount :-). (Having worked only 2 out of the last 8 months I do appreciate your position). Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: Paul Cotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 12:36 AM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo mod_perl is a lousy name. It is causing me a problem. My potential customers have heard of Perl and
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Ged Haywood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi there, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Thompson wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. [snip] mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. How about BigFoot? Sasquatch. -- Dave Hodgkinson, Wizard for Hire http://www.davehodgkinson.com Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Interim Technical Director, Web Architecture Consultant for hire
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Hi all, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... That was one of my points. :) There will be fame although possibly not fortune for the first person to publish the other. 73, Ged.
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Hi Ron, On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not s/$Expletive// American-wide code. But I'm an Englishman and I live in France! O'course we could talk about the French... :) 73, Ged.
RE: New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo]
I like Monkey Butter v1.0.. On a serious note, I work in a predominately MS shop - of 25 developers me and one other are the only Perl developers with 3 more doing some combination of Java,C++, and C. I would suggest that anyone looking to make a case for 'Perl in the Enterprise' should look at the P5EE project ( http://p5ee.perl.org). From that site - The mission of the P5EE initiative is to promote the development, deployment, and acceptance of Enterprise Systems written in Perl. It has been my experience that results count, unless you are dealing with pointy-headed bosses. If that is the case, you application should spit gold bricks out of the floppy drive and it wouldn't matter. If you're looking for a name to justify Perl in Enterprise then I think the P5EE project and name is as good as any. Joe -Original Message- From: ___cliff rayman___ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 7:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo] how about Everest? Niagara? Multiphase? Slipstream? DigiServer? Pointillion? Web Mammoth? SharpWeb? Web Enterprise? EnterWeb? Ged Haywood wrote: Hi there, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Thompson wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. [snip] mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. How about BigFoot? 73, Ged. -- ___cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.genwax.com/
[OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
All right -- I know I should just silently delete this, and let it go, but it's like a bad traffic accident, I just have to sneak a look. In exactly what way do you connote American-style out of any of those names? The fact that Big Foot is a mythical being often associated with the US northwest? (I think the Canadians talk about Big Foot too...) And racist?? Come on, that's certainly a reach... When in doubt, accuse others of being provincial, and act damn indignant. Curse their nationality too... Steve Reppucci On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: Jeezus you guys. All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and footprint of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris -- Steve Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Logical Choice Software http://logsoft.com/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- My God! What have I done? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RE: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
The last time I looked the Yeti is Himalayan and Nessie is from Scotland. -Original Message- From: Stephen Reppucci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 9:16 AM To: Ron Savage Cc: mod_perl Subject: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo All right -- I know I should just silently delete this, and let it go, but it's like a bad traffic accident, I just have to sneak a look. In exactly what way do you connote American-style out of any of those names? The fact that Big Foot is a mythical being often associated with the US northwest? (I think the Canadians talk about Big Foot too...) And racist?? Come on, that's certainly a reach... When in doubt, accuse others of being provincial, and act damn indignant. Curse their nationality too... Steve Reppucci On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: Jeezus you guys. All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and footprint of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris -- Steve Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Logical Choice Software http://logsoft.com/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- My God! What have I done? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Fw: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
I'm going to have a spew here. I am sick of all the Anti-US bashing. You sent hundreds of thousands of your boys to help save Europe, Australia, Russia, Asia from slavery. We will never forget that. When any country is in trouble it dials 1. If in return we get to drink Starbucks and eat Burger King vegi-burgers or McDonalds Salads so be it, it's a fair trade. End of rant. Back to geek stuff. Rod === The sender has never accepted any funding from Enron. Any suggestion to that effect will be met with legal action. - Original Message - From: Stephen Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: mod_perl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 2:15 AM Subject: [OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo All right -- I know I should just silently delete this, and let it go, but it's like a bad traffic accident, I just have to sneak a look. In exactly what way do you connote American-style out of any of those names? The fact that Big Foot is a mythical being often associated with the US northwest? (I think the Canadians talk about Big Foot too...) And racist?? Come on, that's certainly a reach... When in doubt, accuse others of being provincial, and act damn indignant. Curse their nationality too... Steve Reppucci On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: Jeezus you guys. All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Cheers Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about BigFoot? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the footprint involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and footprint of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris -- Steve Reppucci [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Logical Choice Software http://logsoft.com/ | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- My God! What have I done? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[OT] Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Ron Savage wrote: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. People should instead take into consideration the alternative suggestions you provided...oh wait, nevermind. --Alex
[OT] Re: New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo]
___cliff rayman___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: how about Everest? Niagara? Multiphase? Slipstream? DigiServer? Pointillion? Web Mammoth? SharpWeb? Web Enterprise? EnterWeb? % perl -wlne 'print if delmopr eq join , sort /./g' dictionary premold % Actually I just wish we could standardize on one of either mod_perl or modperl, so I can stop bouncing emails off to the wrong list :) -- Joe Schaefer
Re: New mod_perl Logo
In a message dated 30-Jan-02 6:08:29 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Don't let the crappy AOL account fool you. Nessie is about 3 hours from here. The Yetti I believe is indiginous to Asia isn't it? And as for australian beasties ... I just couldn't think of any off the top of my head ... . -Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New mod_perl Logo
At 4:54 PM -0500 1/30/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 30-Jan-02 6:08:29 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Don't let the crappy AOL account fool you. Nessie is about 3 hours from here. The Yetti I believe is indiginous to Asia isn't it? And as for australian beasties ... I just couldn't think of any off the top of my head ... . Uhh... Taz? Or Tazmanian Devil. Roos? KangarooSphere v5.6.0... How about we just call it AmericanHatingAussie... ;-) Rob -Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- When I used a Mac, they laughed because I had no command prompt. When I used Linux, they laughed because I had no GUI.
[OT] RE: New mod_perl Logo
Uhh... the platypus, the wombat, the tazmanian devil, and the emu. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 1:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 6:08:29 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All these American-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. Don't let the crappy AOL account fool you. Nessie is about 3 hours from here. The Yetti I believe is indiginous to Asia isn't it? And as for australian beasties ... I just couldn't think of any off the top of my head ... . -Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] RE: New mod_perl Logo
* Rob Bloodgood ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [31 Jan 2002 09:32]: Uhh... the platypus, the wombat, the tazmanian devil, and the emu. That's 'Tasmanian'. And they're wonderfully cute and vicious brutes. cheers, -- iain. http://eh.org/~koschei/
RE: New mod_perl Logo
I looked at some of the candidates at http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ must confess I am partial to http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/logos/louise_bramald_1.jpg so far Thinking camels for Perl and feathers for Apache putting them together all I could see is flying camels - is that too close to flaming logos? That's my 0.02CAD which is substantially less than 0.02USD... ;-) J
New mod_perl Logo
As many of you are aware, a new mod_perl website is currently being developed and is near to going live. To accompany the new site, and with mod_perl 2.0 development well under way, I have initiated a competition to find a new mod_perl logo. Therefore, I am asking any budding artists/designers amongst you to submit your efforts to myself ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). I will make all submissions available for public review on the web at: http://wypug.digital-word.com/mod_perl/ (where a few designs are even now awaiting your perusal). Once I have accumulated enough variety, I will run a voting booth so that the winning design can be democratically chosen. The reward for your efforts: Eternal fame and fortune, glamour, admiration, kudos, etc... Well, at the very least, you will get the pleasure of seeing your design every time you visit the mod_perl website. It also possible that you would be credited by name/alias within the site. So come on folks, fire up the GIMP/PhotoShop and get to work. There are no rules, no preconceived ideas and no restrictions. You can use the exisiting icons of mod_perl (the camel, Apache feather, eagle, etc), or go for something entirely new - it's up to you. Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Please don't send submissions to the mailing list(s) - send them directly to me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). May the best man win. :-) Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/ NOTE: The WYPUG webserver is not very stable at the moment. If the site is unavailable, then please try again a little later. We're working on a solution right now...
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Tuesday 29 January 2002 19:10, Markus Wichitill wrote: exisiting icons of mod_perl (the camel, Apache feather, eagle, etc), or Please let's not choose one with an ORA animal as the official logo. It's very annoying having to include those stupid copyright notices just because the logo is used on a page. Note that that makes the only forbidden animal a white-tailed eagle I guess. Any other animal should be ok. -- ___ Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- CTO k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com --- Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
RE: New mod_perl Logo
:: Please let's not choose one with an ORA animal as the :: official logo. It's very annoying having to include those :: stupid copyright notices just because the logo is used on a page. The final logo will be chosen by majority vote. :: And since I've now posted to the list anyway, I can as well :: link my powered-by-button entry, which is partly based on a :: previous mod_perl site redesign that was never used in the :: end (sorry, forgot by whom it was): :: http://www.mawic.de/modperl.gif I have added your button to the gallery, thank you Markus. Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator West Yorkshire Perl User Group http://wypug.pm.org/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Note that that makes the only forbidden animal a white-tailed eagle I guess. Any other animal should be ok. The context is Apache and Perl, so wouldn't that include eagle, camel, llama and whatever other book animals I've missed?
Re: New mod_perl Logo
exisiting icons of mod_perl (the camel, Apache feather, eagle, etc), or Please let's not choose one with an ORA animal as the official logo. It's Well, seeing as this would be the new version of mod_perl, I could see it being worth ORA's while to forgo their little copyright nonsense. I'm sure, if a really nice design comes up with the mod_perl eagle, that ORA wouldn't mind bending their copyright for us. After all, its extra publicity for them, right? -man
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Michael A Nachbaur wrote:
Well, seeing as this would be the new version of mod_perl, I could see it
being worth ORA's while to forgo their little copyright nonsense. I'm sure,
if a really nice design comes up with the mod_perl eagle, that ORA wouldn't
mind bending their copyright for us. After all, its extra publicity for
them, right?
That's not how trademarks work. ORA have to complain about every use of
a trademarked form that comes to their attention, otherwise the trademark
lapses.
If their trademark lapses, then someone else can produce Eagle books.
To borrow the really horrible slashdot phrase though, I am not a lawyer
Later.
Mark
--
s'' Mark Fowler London.pm Bath.pm
http://www.twoshortplanks.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/ +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}
Re: New mod_perl Logo
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application. For example, at my place of employment, we just went through a rather arduous task that I fought against and lost. We had a production site that handled a decent amount of traffic. Apache, mod_perl, Linux and MySQL. It ran and ran with almost no intervention. The management team of the company that bought us a year ago had been trying to force a change in the product by throwing up various arguments, which were always false. (MySQL doesnt support Transaction, Yes it does. But they arent atomic., Yes they are. Well, you can't roll them back., Yes you can.) In the end, I lost. From October to mid January they set about taking our fully functional product and replatforming it to Win2k/IIS/ASP+VB/MSSQL. The final reason? Responsible enterprises do not use perl. mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. The java folks learned that a long time ago. Their systems are called Tomcat/Jakarta and Cocoon and Resin. THAT, in my opinion, is what should happen for mod_perl 2.0. It should be Adirondack or Orwell or any other generic, innocuous name. Even MonkeyButter v1.0 is probably a better deal than mod_perl. As for logos, Avoiding Camels or Eagles is a requirement. I don't blame ORA for requiring the trademark notices, the twisted concepts of US trademark law REQUIRE them to do that. The first time they didnt, they could lose their trademark. But we should have a mascot that makes sense and is OURS. Linux has the penguin, OpenBSD has the blowfish, the other BSD's have the devil. Those images are clearly associated with those products, and can be used WITHOUT corporate approval. -- ___ Chris Thompson
Re: New mod_perl Logo
I could not agree more. I can not compute how much of my time would have been saved over the last few years had I been able to say something like 'We are using the Orwellian AppSphere 2002 running on Apache' to VC's and management rather then 'Mod Perl'. Perception counts I am affectionate towards the mod_perl name after so many years but its really not optimal. John- On Tuesday, January 29, 2002, at 04:29 PM, Chris Thompson wrote: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application.
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Hi ct ! On Wednesday 30 January 2002 01:29, Chris Thompson wrote: Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. This discussion has occured already. The conclusion was simple: the name won't change. Doug cut the talk saying that he won't change the name, and I must say I agree. That isn't to say your points are invalid, you're concern is justified. The solution here is not to change modperl's name. modperl, in a way, is a low level thing. It's just Perl + Apache. When in need of a convincing name, say I use Foo where Foo is the name of something that runs on top of modperl. I use AxKit, I use FooAppFramework, etc. can sound a lot better. Of course, on top of that you need a good looking website with marketing talk. In any case changing the name alone doesn't help. Website content welcome ;-) -- ___ Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- CTO k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com --- Paranoids are people, too; they have their own problems. It's easy to criticize, but if everybody hated you, you'd be paranoid too.
New mod_perl name was [Re: New mod_perl Logo]
how about Everest? Niagara? Multiphase? Slipstream? DigiServer? Pointillion? Web Mammoth? SharpWeb? Web Enterprise? EnterWeb? Ged Haywood wrote: Hi there, On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Chris Thompson wrote: mod_perl is a lousy name. [snip] mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. How about BigFoot? 73, Ged. -- ___cliff [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.genwax.com/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Thanks for sharing your opinion and it has brought up some of my own that I had held in reserve for sometime now. I would 100% agree with a claim that a name is effecting usage if we were selling a food product or something else to the general public, but even then far more products have failed because they weren't properly explained to the public. mod_perl is a beast of tool/product. It harnesses the full power of Apache web server and Perl to allow you do dam near anything with the data you need to handle. Apache because of its large platform support and well designed architecture has proven that it is enterprise ready. That brings me to the rub of this discussion however, Perl. I love Perl, I use Perl for almost every programming task that I need in my work and personal computing use. That isn't enough though. Perl has a rep, MySQL has a rep too. These *once* true statements such as Its just a scripting language for Unix or It doesn't support transactions etc. are becoming more and more the cripples of the acceptance not the name. These great and power products don't have someone dispelling the myths on national television while none computer managers are watching TV, they only remember what the last consultant said. I am not knocking managers I am just showing human nature, that is we don't change our opinions unless someone we trust (the TV? ) more then the last person explains clearly why we should. We have had several discussions over the last three years on this list about advocating mod_perl. I think what it really boils down to is a polished web presence and a strong statement of the power and efficiency of the product at hand and in this case a place your favorite open source application here page to refute known myths. Aaron Johnson Chris Thompson wrote: On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application. For example, at my place of employment, we just went through a rather arduous task that I fought against and lost. We had a production site that handled a decent amount of traffic. Apache, mod_perl, Linux and MySQL. It ran and ran with almost no intervention. The management team of the company that bought us a year ago had been trying to force a change in the product by throwing up various arguments, which were always false. (MySQL doesnt support Transaction, Yes it does. But they arent atomic., Yes they are. Well, you can't roll them back., Yes you can.) In the end, I lost. From October to mid January they set about taking our fully functional product and replatforming it to Win2k/IIS/ASP+VB/MSSQL. The final reason? Responsible enterprises do not use perl. mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. The java folks learned that a long time ago. Their systems are called Tomcat/Jakarta and Cocoon and Resin. THAT, in my opinion, is what should happen for mod_perl 2.0. It should be Adirondack or Orwell or any other generic, innocuous name. Even MonkeyButter v1.0 is probably a better deal than mod_perl. As for logos, Avoiding Camels or Eagles is a requirement. I don't blame ORA for requiring the trademark notices, the twisted concepts of US trademark law REQUIRE them to do that. The first time they didnt, they could lose their trademark. But we should have a mascot that makes sense and is OURS. Linux has the penguin, OpenBSD has the blowfish, the other BSD's have the devil. Those images are clearly associated with those products, and can be used WITHOUT corporate approval. -- ___ Chris Thompson
Re: New mod_perl Logo
In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about "BigFoot"? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the "footprint" involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and "footprint" of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris
Re: New mod_perl Logo
I agree. mod_perl is a technology not a platform. Java is called Java, Servlets are called Servlets, but products on top of the technology (eg app servers) are usually have the name Orwellian Pearlz Factory. If you wanted to use a marketing name, you should have just told them you were using one of the frameworks on top of mod_perl like AxKit or Mason. At 08:59 AM 1/30/2002, Robin Berjon wrote: Hi ct ! On Wednesday 30 January 2002 01:29, Chris Thompson wrote: Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. This discussion has occured already. The conclusion was simple: the name won't change. Doug cut the talk saying that he won't change the name, and I must say I agree. That isn't to say your points are invalid, you're concern is justified. The solution here is not to change modperl's name. modperl, in a way, is a low level thing. It's just Perl + Apache. When in need of a convincing name, say I use Foo where Foo is the name of something that runs on top of modperl. I use AxKit, I use FooAppFramework, etc. can sound a lot better. Of course, on top of that you need a good looking website with marketing talk. In any case changing the name alone doesn't help. Website content welcome ;-) -- ___ Robin Berjon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- CTO k n o w s c a p e : // venture knowledge agency www.knowscape.com --- Paranoids are people, too; they have their own problems. It's easy to criticize, but if everybody hated you, you'd be paranoid too. __ Gunther Birznieks ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) eXtropia - The Open Web Technology Company http://www.eXtropia.com/
Re: New mod_perl Logo
I really don't think a catchy name would have helped in your case. Your management, like many others, prefer to manage by magazine. And we all know who is in all the magazines. If your management did not like Perl, why not try java, c or php? If your management did not like MySQL, why not Postgres, Sybase, Oracle, Informix? My point is it would not matter. The issue was not Perl, the real issue was that it was not a Microsoft product. - Original Message - From: Chris Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote: Ideas for logos, banners, powered by-type buttons are all welcome. Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. There, I've said it. For any number of reasons, perl does now and will always face an uphill struggle in any Enterprise application. For example, at my place of employment, we just went through a rather arduous task that I fought against and lost. We had a production site that handled a decent amount of traffic. Apache, mod_perl, Linux and MySQL. It ran and ran with almost no intervention. The management team of the company that bought us a year ago had been trying to force a change in the product by throwing up various arguments, which were always false. (MySQL doesnt support Transaction, Yes it does. But they arent atomic., Yes they are. Well, you can't roll them back., Yes you can.) In the end, I lost. From October to mid January they set about taking our fully functional product and replatforming it to Win2k/IIS/ASP+VB/MSSQL. The final reason? Responsible enterprises do not use perl. mod_perl needs a name. Something marketable, something catchy. The java folks learned that a long time ago. Their systems are called Tomcat/Jakarta and Cocoon and Resin. THAT, in my opinion, is what should happen for mod_perl 2.0. It should be Adirondack or Orwell or any other generic, innocuous name. Even MonkeyButter v1.0 is probably a better deal than mod_perl. As for logos, Avoiding Camels or Eagles is a requirement. I don't blame ORA for requiring the trademark notices, the twisted concepts of US trademark law REQUIRE them to do that. The first time they didnt, they could lose their trademark. But we should have a mascot that makes sense and is OURS. Linux has the penguin, OpenBSD has the blowfish, the other BSD's have the devil. Those images are clearly associated with those products, and can be used WITHOUT corporate approval. -- ___ Chris Thompson
Re: New mod_perl Logo
Jeezus you guys. All theseAmerican-style names are verging on the racist. This is world-wide code, not f---ing American-wide code. CheersRon Savage[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://savage.net.au/index.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2002 12:48 PM Subject: Re: New mod_perl Logo In a message dated 30-Jan-02 12:50:50 AM GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about "BigFoot"? Probably not the best for a server application. Might make one think of the "footprint" involved ... and isn't one of the major reasons to moving to mod_perl to reduce the overhead and "footprint" of the server? Now Yetti no conotation there. Or Swamp Beast, Sasquatch, or possibly even the local favorite Nessie (I'd love to see Ora get a picture of her on the next book!) -Chris
Re: New mod_perl Logo
At 07:29 PM 01/29/02 -0500, Chris Thompson wrote: Well, I'd like to just throw one idea into the mix. It's something that's bugged me for a long time, no better time than the present. mod_perl is a lousy name. I don't know about lousy, but I do agree. I brought this up on the docs-dev list: http://search.apache.org/archives/docs-dev/0236.html During the week I posted that I had run into PHP programmers at a computer show, more PHP programmers at a pub (2 in the afternoon -- more out of work programmers), and ended up talking with a couple of Java programmers one day. The amazing thing was they all had a completely weird idea about what mod_perl is or what it does. And all thought it was slow, old, dead, not scalable, technology. And that was from programmers, not managers. We all know there is a lot of misinformation out there. Marketing is not everything, but it's a lot! What we know of mod_perl is more than just perl+Apache, really. It's a development platform, or development suite. It can be anything our marketing department says it is. ;) In these tough economic times, repackaging might be helpful. Who knows? And for some of us we know that mod_perl is also something that makes up a chunk of our livelihood. So, the promotion of mod_perl is quite important, unless we want to start spending more afternoons with those PHP programmers down at the corner pub. So how would a group like the mod_perl community promote itself in new ways? Well, other professionals often have professional organizations or associations to represent and promote their members. I wonder if there are there enough mod_perl programmers to support something like that. Even if there were, what could be done? Run a few print ads in magazines that system admins read? Hire an ad firm for help in developing our brand? mod_perl coffee mugs? (Tired of that old cup of Java?) Free mod_perl clinics? Hard to imagine any of that actually happening, really. So what's a group of programmers to do? The new web site should help, to some degree, but I'm not sure it will change any manager's mind on the technology they pick to run their applications. Of course, most people here have access to big pipes. So, there's always bulk mail ads. I got mail just today saying that it's an effective way to advertise. In fact I got about ten of those today! -- Bill Moseley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
