subject:"Re\: \[newbie\] various issues"


 I agree with Julie, don't give up. You are much more competent than I was
 when I started with Linux in 1998. (I think). I am not a computer guru,
 geek (well a wannabe maybe) or programmer and have to wear a name tag to
 remember my own name, but  I have progressed to the point where I don't ask
 questions unless I absolutely exhaust all my references and googles. And I
 love it. I laugh in the face of viruses and snear at worms and have shaken
 the dust from my feet in leaving MS. Oh, wait I'm getting carried away
 again. I preach to anyone who will listen about linux. Sorry,


Thanks for your comments.  I'm a bit behind with emails - so not sure exactly 
what I have responded to now!  Guess I have trouble following some of the 
instructions I see - as the command line and text editors are so foreign.  
Slowly getting there I think.

Rosemary


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues



 Whatever is best for you Rosemary.
 I love Linux, but live on solar power in the bush using a laptop, no
 serial port, with 31000 kbps Internet access. The desktop uses too much
 power, but it runs Linux and connects to the net when we have a bit of
 spare electrical power. But I use mainly the lappy, reworked of course,
 not as out of the store, and windows XP, the modem and all else works
 out of the box for that. I like windows well enough, just not their
 philosophy.

 I love Linux, but can't download the kernels etc,. that are required for
 me to get either the PCMCIA modem working, the USB to serial connector
 working or the winmodem working.

 So use what you can and have and know. Experiment, I do much of my
 writing and other work that doesn't require Internet connection in
 Linux, and Use windows for everything else.

 Computers are not about Linux, but about what you need or want to do. It
 depends on the individual but nothing is better, just different. I have
 come through from Red Hat, Slackware, Suse, even tried Debian for a
 while and so on. They are all good, I just happen to like Mandrake. Just
 can't use it on the net at the moment.

 Just enjoy, don't sweat it, this is not an all or nothing situation.

 Be well,
 Charlie.

 --

 Though night after night. The moon is stream reflected, Try to find where
 it has touched. Point even to a shadow.

 - Takuan (1573 - 1645)


I was just fristrated about one or two things, and tired from night shifts!  
Thanks for your wise words.  Interesting signature ...

Rosemary


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues



 Everything takes time to learn.  That includes windows!  How long did it
 take you to learn to use a computer in the beginning with any semblance
 of skill?  I have had a terrible time changing because I was virtually
 computer illiterate to begin with, but I was dissatisfied enough with
 windows ME to give linux a try.  I didn't do enough research, and got a
 winmodem that would almost work (it got me on line 3 times).  After that
 it would display an error that I got no answers to at two mail lists,
 and a google search turned up the same error reported by others, but no
 answer.  I also started out with a copy of Mandrake 9.1 powerpack bought
 from Amazon.  But that was a bad idea too, because I was installing it
 on a new custom built computer, so all the hardware was newer than the
 software.  It appears to me that you have smarter than me in the start
 of your venture into linux.  It has been almost a year since I started
 playing with this new computer, and it has only been fully operational
 (internet capable) for a few months.  Already I have been spoiled by the
 browsers, and the variety of programs available for download.  Also, if
 you want to experiment, check out a site that sells download linux
 distributions.  For about $25 you can get Mandrake 10.1, Suse 9.2 Pro,
 and Fedora Core 3 at linuxcd.com.  You might also try the Gnome desktop
 if you haven't already.  I prefer the Evolution e-mail program, and am
 running it currently from KDE.  I haven' tried thunderbird, so can't
 offer any help there.  Just remember that if you stay with Microsoft you
 still have to be carefull which version you are running.  My father has
 been corresponding with a windows newbi list for several years, and a
 lot of the people on that list refuse to upgrade from Win98!  That would
 be for the reson that 98 is a more secure os in their oppinion than xp.
 But, whatever you decide, good luck, and have fun!
 ~Lorin


Thanks for taking the time to respond - I'm still here :-)
  
  Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
  Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
  Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
  


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology



 PS I assume you heve the kdegraphics-kghostview and/or acroread rpms
 installed. KGhostview is a program (and embeddable KPart) to display *.PDF
 and *.PS files.


Yes was pretty amazed when first installed mandrake 10.1 and cruising the 
menus - to see what was there.

Rosemary


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology


 

 you all do know that as root urpmi rute will install rute,, adn just
 typing 'rute' in a cli will start rute


 ---
Actually typing rute in cli didn't start rute for me.  Though I haven't 
urpmi'ed it yet.


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-03 Thread Aron Smith

On Thursday 03 March 2005 11:36 pm, Rosemary McGillicuddy wrote:
  
 
  you all do know that as root urpmi rute will install rute,, adn just
  typing 'rute' in a cli will start rute
 
 
  ---

 Actually typing rute in cli didn't start rute for me.  Though I haven't
 urpmi'ed it yet.
Wl that *could* be the reason ;-)


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread riccardo

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 07:59 am, Julie Sloan wrote:
 Which is why I'm on my fourth
 reinstall.
___

 ~ maybe, it is handy, to have entire duplicate system, on a spare 
partition . . . a matter of moments, with RSYNC

best rgds





Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:11 am, riccardo wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 07:59 am, Julie Sloan wrote:
  Which is why I'm on my fourth
  reinstall.

 ___

  ~ maybe, it is handy, to have entire duplicate system, on a spare
 partition . . . a matter of moments, with RSYNC



Thanks!  I'll add that to my list of things to try.  :)   The trouble is, 
there is so much to learn and so much to do and so few hours in a day, that 
I have only scraped the surface of all the good advice and tips I've been 
given.  

Julie
-- 


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread l_duvall

 On Monday 28 February 2005 09:26 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
 Julie Sloan wrote:
  On Monday 28 February 2005 12:06 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
 Now, what I would like to see sometime is changing from Windows 98 to
  XP compaired to changing from 98 to Linux...
 
  What about it?
 
  snip

 Linux was harder, no question about it.


 I had zero computer experience before my six years of win95  98.  I was
 so
 illiterate in 1998 that I had to use the manual to learn how to power my
 first computer (a Tosh laptop) on!

 In win I already knew the internal structure and file system.  I knew
 about
 tools like the disc defragmenter, and several different ways to navigate
 the file system, and stupid tricks

 [...like changing file names -- do you know, in windows, you can't move,
 that is to say, drag and drop a file with the .exe extension?  When you
 try, you end up with a shortcut to the original location.  The stupid
 trick is to rename the file, ie take away the extension, then move it,
 then
 restore its original name.  That's a stupid trick.

** An easier trick is to right click, drag, and then select move from the
menu

I learned dozens of
 those by breaking things, which is probaby why I have friends calling my
 up
 to troubleshoot for them.]

 The best advice came from page 17 of my Tosh manual (yes, I remember
 this  ;-)  ), which paraphrased, is, don't be afraid of it.  Its just a
 machine.  Chances are you can't mess it up too badly.  At that point I

snip

As someone who once upon a time did full-time tech support for Windows 95
 98, believe me, you can do as much damage in 95/98 as an ordinary user
as you can as su in Linux, but 95/98 requires a lot less effort to do so.
With Linux you have to BECOME su to start breaking things - you have to
make the little bit of extra effort to log on as su. Anyone, at any time
can break 95/98 and on too many XP Home machines the same is also true,
since it seems, at least for many of the people that I know, they run
their XP machines using the administrator account. There is nothing to
stop you from doing the same in Linux, but at least Mandrake will warn you
when you start KDE that it is a bad idea.

LeRoy


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread riccardo

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 08:19 am, Julie Sloan referred:
 handy, to have entire duplicate system

 ~ for example . . . have cron daemon, once-a-week, run script :-
__

.
#!/bin/sh
#
# use rsync to backup / to /dev/hdb6 on Sunday
#
mount -t reiserfs /dev/hdb6 /mnt
# df
cd
rsync -avr --delete --delete-after --exclude=/mnt --exclude=/proc 
--exclude=/tmp / /mnt
cd
cp /mnt/etc/fstab.6bak /mnt/etc/fstab
df
umount /mnt
cd




best rgds
___








Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Anne Wilson

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday 01 Mar 2005 07:59, Julie Sloan wrote:

 [...like changing file names -- do you know, in windows, you can't move,
 that is to say, drag and drop a file with the .exe extension?  When you
 try, you end up with a shortcut to the original location.  The stupid
 trick is to rename the file, ie take away the extension, then move it, then
 restore its original name.  That's a stupid trick.   I learned dozens of
 those by breaking things, which is probaby why I have friends calling my up
 to troubleshoot for them.]

OT - you can, easily.  Ctrl-drag copies and Shift-drag moves.  At least it 
does in 98  and I think it still does in XP.

Anne
- -- 
Registered Linux User No.293302 (http://counter.li.org/)
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?  Mandrake at all levels
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCJCiIkFAvMr/nNX8RAuwmAJ9JpLAdj2r+MG3AaMEdFBZb7bGfWgCfZuHU
g2xoL7G3hZ1eYcw3eiMn2co=
=d25y
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread Anne Wilson

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday 01 Mar 2005 06:19, Rosemary McGillicuddy wrote:
 Hello listers,

 Thanks to all who replied to my post.  I'm sorry - I was  pretty 
 unreasonable on reflection.  I have been frustrated at one or two things,
 and also on night duty, which does nothing for my tolerance!  I do aplogise
 for sounding off.

A sound-off relieves things, often g  No apology needed.

 I think the main problem is that I want to run, before I can walk properly,
 in linux!  A bit of patience is in order ...

You and me both.  I think for windows power users to make the change is 
actually not very easy.  The frustration level is so high when you knew your 
way around quite complex things and you are having to learn fairly basic 
ones.

 Anyway  thanks all.  I'm not giving up.

Good.  Enjoy!

Anne
- -- 
Registered Linux User No.293302 (http://counter.li.org/)
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?  Mandrake at all levels
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFCJCq4kFAvMr/nNX8RAjsfAJ9uuvS9Z8rMSXfwq/92ClR3c6MbZQCfWX6b
8JmXczISlvzMS4Ug//sxDS8=
=NQO3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 Mar 2005 00:41, Anne Wilson wrote:
 On Monday 28 Feb 2005 11:11, SnapafunFrank wrote:
  Bottom line, use the apps that work in Linux for now and stick to
  configuring one preferred app at a time. You get to learn Linux and end
  up with the exact app you want.

 I remember that when I first started I found that this was the best advice.
 The trouble is that the latest and greatest can really be a pain when you
 are still learning.  I found that to stick to the apps that Mandrake gave
 me - apart from plf xine packages etc - was the best philosophy.  I still
 mainly do, though not entirely these days.

Yes I think that's good advice.

 I think you have been a bit unfortunate, too with some of your hardware. 
 Most of mine worked from the box, but my first efforts at linux were
 stymied when my printer could not be made to work and I could not afford to
 change it. Things are much better now, drivers are available for many more
 things, but there are still some that may never be workable.

I'm reasonably confident I'll get the camera going sometime.  Haven't actually 
tried, apart from the hardrake which said it is unsupported.  I have found a 
site which lists some drivers for that camera, just haven't done anything 
about it.  Not a big issue as can back photos up on CDs in windows and play 
with them in Mandrake.  I was lucky that my printer worked right off, and 
when I tried linux two years ago a LUG person got my printer going then.

 Don't get depressed.  Work a little in both worlds until you feel most
 things are working, then you should be able to spend increasing time in the
 linux world.  
Already I am working mostly in linux.  I will need to keep windows for Family 
Tree stuff anyway.

 Anne

Thanks
Rosemary



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:28 am, l_duvall wrote:
  Julie Sloan wrote:
 
  [...like changing file names -- do you know, in windows, you can't
  move, that is to say, drag and drop a file with the .exe extension?
   When you try, you end up with a shortcut to the original location. 
  The stupid trick is to rename the file, ie take away the extension,
  then move it, then
  restore its original name.  That's a stupid trick.

 ** An easier trick is to right click, drag, and then select move from the
 menu

See, that's what I get for not reading beyond page 17  ;-)

 As someone who once upon a time did full-time tech support for Windows 95
  98, believe me, you can do as much damage in 95/98 as an ordinary user
 as you can as su in Linux, but 95/98 requires a lot less effort to do so.

But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!

Julie
-- 


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues



 I've been where you are now Rosemary and I can tell you I did  go back
 to windows , that is until I hit their first freeze at about 5minutes
 in wanting to format a simple word document.

 It then dawned on me that though Mandrake was not going along as easy as
 some of the stuff I was used to, at least it was going along AND I was
 able to fix things there and then.

 So do pop back to windows for a look see and while it is loading try to
 recall why it was you needed to look at something different.

Yes - when I went back to print a letter head I was *amazed* how long it took 
to load. 

 Isn't Linux now worth the effort ?

 Example: Thunderbird won't cross link but kmail will - beats Outlook
 Express injecting you with a virus then abandoning you by reverting to
 the dreaded BSOD from where there is only usually one come back.

Hadn't used Outlook Express for a long time anyway, getting used to kmail now.

 Reboot.

 Bye Bye all loaded pages I haven't yet read. ( Thankfully I now use
 Mozilla both here and in Windows - so when that system crashes I still
 have a decent history bar (F9) to get my unread pages back. )

 Bottom line, use the apps that work in Linux for now and stick to
 configuring one preferred app at a time. You get to learn Linux and end
 up with the exact app you want.

Good advice - thanks
Rosemary


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues



 I think it is actualy harder changing from Windows to Linux, then it is
 starting out fresh with Linux. You have to learn some new ways of doing
 things. If you are starting out fresh, you don't have to unlearn
 things. Most people have forgotten the learning process they went
 through when they started using Windows.

Very true - I had forgotten how *lost* I was when first started using the 
computer.  Now I'm lost if can't have access to it for a few days!

 Now, what I would like to see sometime is changing from Windows 98 to XP
 compaired to changing from 98 to Linux...

Personally 98 to XP was easy.  But was also to do with capacity of new 
computer.

Rosemary

 Mikkel


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:30 am, riccardo wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 08:19 am, Julie Sloan referred:
  handy, to have entire duplicate system

  ~ for example . . . have cron daemon, once-a-week, run script :-


Thanks riccardo, I will add this and your run daily script into that file 
of notes I mentioned to Rosemary.

FWIW, the lazy way I take notes:
first, if I think there is something I need to learn *at this stage*,  I 
hang on to the email for a little while.  then later, cleaning out my 
mailbox, I review it again, deciding if this is something I should make a 
note of.  If so, I mark it some way.  Another few days goes by and I'll get 
the pertinent information out of each of these marked emails and paste into 
this one big confusing file.  I reread the file every week or two, grepping 
a little more each time.  :)

It works for me but might not for everyone else.

Julie
-- 


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:52 am, Rosemary McGillicuddy wrote:
  I think it is actualy harder changing from Windows to Linux, then it is
  starting out fresh with Linux. You have to learn some new ways of doing
  things. If you are starting out fresh, you don't have to unlearn
  things. Most people have forgotten the learning process they went
  through when they started using Windows.

 Very true - I had forgotten how *lost* I was when first started using the
 computer.  Now I'm lost if can't have access to it for a few days!


!!!DAYS  

mhhmmmp.   You're not as addicted as I am.

Julie-- 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology



 You and me both.  I think for windows power users to make the change is
 actually not very easy.  The frustration level is so high when you knew
 your way around quite complex things and you are having to learn fairly
 basic ones.

  Anyway  thanks all.  I'm not giving up.

 Good.  Enjoy!

 Anne


I don't think I can make the claim to being a power user, but I could do the 
things I wanted to, or manage to teach myself, or find out by fiddling about.  
I just need to give myself time and practice in the command line until it 
becomes more familiar.

Thanks
Rosemary

Most things I do don't need command line - I just would like to know!


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread l_duvall

 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:28 am, l_duvall wrote:
  Julie Sloan wrote:
 
  [...like changing file names -- do you know, in windows, you can't
  move, that is to say, drag and drop a file with the .exe
 extension?
   When you try, you end up with a shortcut to the original location.
  The stupid trick is to rename the file, ie take away the extension,
  then move it, then
  restore its original name.  That's a stupid trick.

 ** An easier trick is to right click, drag, and then select move from
 the
 menu

 See, that's what I get for not reading beyond page 17  ;-)

You could read all the way to the last page and not find most of the
useful shortcuts.


 As someone who once upon a time did full-time tech support for Windows
 95
  98, believe me, you can do as much damage in 95/98 as an ordinary user
 as you can as su in Linux, but 95/98 requires a lot less effort to do
 so.

 But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!

You didn't try very hard! I have broke almost every OS I have worked with
- no harm in experimenting since that is how you learn - as long as you
learn - and you have the time to set aside for reinstalling!

;^)




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread SnapafunFrank

Rosemary McGillicuddy wrote:
Hello listers,
Thanks to all who replied to my post.  I'm sorry - I was  pretty  unreasonable 
on reflection.  I have been frustrated at one or two things, and also on 
night duty, which does nothing for my tolerance!  I do aplogise for sounding 
off.

Just for interest I had no problems going from win 98 to winXP but mainly 
because I also went from a ten year old computer with 200mhz processor and 64 
mb RAM, to 2Gig and  256!  But I certainly found computing a weird world when 
I first started.  

The reality is, I have only booted to windows once in the last week and that 
was to print a letter head with a scanned logo for some work I do.  I am 
learning my way around the various programmes I use, and it isn't actually 
going to hurt me to use Kmail rather than thunderbird.  However I do want to 
get the webpage printing sorted because need the Rute tutorial in hard copy 
to refer to.  I'll look at the printing suggestion you made Anne.
 

Hope you got Mozilla handy 'cause I'm not sure if Firefox can handle 
this site but have I got it easy for you

Go to this site : http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz [ note the *.gz 
bit - Mozilla can handle that  - let me know if Firefox can please ] ...

At the very top left of this page is this link.. 
http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2

Download that - unzip it - and you have a pdf file to print to hard 
copy. Warning, I have done this myself with rute and that is a book 
sized printout.


UPDATE:
Tried the above link in konqueror and not only did it open the site page 
but when I did a simple left click on the pdf link, konqueror offered to 
open it for me there and then .. ( it's downloading as I write this.) So 
from pdf to printer is a snap - Er... I have xpdf and Acrobat5 
installed. The later gives me more printing layout options, though if I 
were to dig further there would likely be something in kprinter that 
would do enough to satisfy my requirements.

Sort of supports my earlier posting in this thread ... I must use what 
is available first, then experiment with the latest and greatest.

Hope you get Rute sorted.
Enjoy.
I think the main problem is that I want to run, before I can walk properly, in 
linux!  A bit of patience is in order ...  

A big bonus is that I don't ever lose my internet conection in linux.  I don't 
know whether that is the hardware modem or the OS, but it's a big improvement 
on before.

Anyway  thanks all.  I'm not giving up.
Rosemary
 


--
Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always!
Regards
SnapafunFrank
Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve.
Registered Linux User # 324213 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread SnapafunFrank

SnapafunFrank wrote:
Rosemary McGillicuddy wrote:
Hello listers,
Thanks to all who replied to my post.  I'm sorry - I was  pretty  
unreasonable on reflection.  I have been frustrated at one or two 
things, and also on night duty, which does nothing for my tolerance!  
I do aplogise for sounding off.

Just for interest I had no problems going from win 98 to winXP but 
mainly because I also went from a ten year old computer with 200mhz 
processor and 64 mb RAM, to 2Gig and  256!  But I certainly found 
computing a weird world when I first started. 
The reality is, I have only booted to windows once in the last week 
and that was to print a letter head with a scanned logo for some work 
I do.  I am learning my way around the various programmes I use, and 
it isn't actually going to hurt me to use Kmail rather than 
thunderbird.  However I do want to get the webpage printing sorted 
because need the Rute tutorial in hard copy to refer to.  I'll look 
at the printing suggestion you made Anne.
 

Hope you got Mozilla handy 'cause I'm not sure if Firefox can handle 
this site but have I got it easy for you

Go to this site : http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz [ note the 
*.gz bit - Mozilla can handle that  - let me know if Firefox can 
please ] ...

At the very top left of this page is this link.. 
http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2

Download that - unzip it - and you have a pdf file to print to hard 
copy. Warning, I have done this myself with rute and that is a book 
sized printout.

 

UPDATE:
Tried the above link in konqueror and not only did it open the site 
page but when I did a simple left click on the pdf link, konqueror 
offered to open it for me there and then .. ( it's downloading as I 
write this.) So from pdf to printer is a snap - Er... I have xpdf and 
Acrobat5 installed. The later gives me more printing layout options, 
though if I were to dig further there would likely be something in 
kprinter that would do enough to satisfy my requirements.

Sort of supports my earlier posting in this thread ... I must use what 
is available first, then experiment with the latest and greatest.

Hope you get Rute sorted.
Enjoy.
I think the main problem is that I want to run, before I can walk 
properly, in linux!  A bit of patience is in order ... 
A big bonus is that I don't ever lose my internet conection in 
linux.  I don't know whether that is the hardware modem or the OS, 
but it's a big improvement on before.

Anyway  thanks all.  I'm not giving up.
Rosemary
 


Another update ; It's 660 pages long whew.
--
Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always!
Regards
SnapafunFrank
Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve.
Registered Linux User # 324213 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread Kenneth Rhodes

On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 23:45 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
 SnapafunFrank wrote:

  Hope you got Mozilla handy 'cause I'm not sure if Firefox can handle 
  this site but have I got it easy for you
 
  Go to this site : http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz [ note the 
  *.gz bit - Mozilla can handle that  - let me know if Firefox can 
  please ] ...
 
  At the very top left of this page is this link.. 
  http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2
 
  Download that - unzip it - and you have a pdf file to print to hard 
  copy. Warning, I have done this myself with rute and that is a book 
  sized printout.
 
  
   
 
 
  UPDATE:
 
  Tried the above link in konqueror and not only did it open the site 
  page but when I did a simple left click on the pdf link, konqueror 
  offered to open it for me there and then .. ( it's downloading as I 
  write this.) So from pdf to printer is a snap - Er... I have xpdf and 
  Acrobat5 installed. The later gives me more printing layout options, 
  though if I were to dig further there would likely be something in 
  kprinter that would do enough to satisfy my requirements.
 
  Sort of supports my earlier posting in this thread ... I must use what 
  is available first, then experiment with the latest and greatest.

 The link works in Firefox and Epiphany as well.  :)

-- 
Kenneth Rhodes
100% MicroSoft Free



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread Pablo Ortuzar

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 11:38, SnapafunFrank wrote:
 Rosemary McGillicuddy wrote:
(snip)

 Go to this site : http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz [ note the *.gz
 bit - Mozilla can handle that  - let me know if Firefox can please ] ...

 At the very top left of this page is this link..
 http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2

 Download that - unzip it - and you have a pdf file 

 ###
#

 UPDATE:

 Tried the above link in konqueror and not only did it open the site page
 but when I did a simple left click on the pdf link, konqueror offered to
 open it for me there and then .. ( it's downloading as I write this.) So
 from pdf to printer is a snap - Er... I have xpdf and Acrobat5

Rosemary,

I assume you're using KDE. With konqueror, go here

http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2

Left click on download pdf (upper left)
A popup window will appear. Left click on Save As.
In your home folder, you will have a rute.pdf.bz2 file. Right click on it, 
then left click on Ark. Choose Edit, then Select all, then Action, 
then Extract. A file called rute.pdf is then installed in /opt. Go there 
and left click on it. You can then read it offline, or print it (left click 
Location, then Print).

-- 
Pablo Ortúzar



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread Pablo Ortuzar

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 13:40, Pablo Ortuzar wrote:


 Rosemary,

 I assume you're using KDE. With konqueror, go here

 http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2

 Left click on download pdf (upper left)
 A popup window will appear. Left click on Save As.
 In your home folder, you will have a rute.pdf.bz2 file. Right click on
 it, then left click on Ark. Choose Edit, then Select all, then
 Action, then Extract. A file called rute.pdf is then installed in
 /opt. Go there and left click on it. You can then read it offline, or print
 it (left click Location, then Print).

PS I assume you heve the kdegraphics-kghostview and/or acroread rpms 
installed. KGhostview is a program (and embeddable KPart) to display *.PDF 
and *.PS files.

-- 
Pablo Ortúzar



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

RE: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Martell, Larry

Julie Sloan wrote:
On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:28 am, l_duvall wrote:
 As someone who once upon a time did full-time tech support for Windows 95
  98, believe me, you can do as much damage in 95/98 as an ordinary user
 as you can as su in Linux, but 95/98 requires a lot less effort to do so.

 But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!

I've run applications that have broken windows so badly I had to
reinstall it. Just happened last week - an app trashed a bunch of dll's.
Who writes stuff like this?? What are they thinking??
Something like this could never happen in unix.
 
-larry


winmail.dat
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

RE: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Martell, Larry

On Monday 28 February 2005 09:26 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
 Julie Sloan wrote:
  On Monday 28 February 2005 12:06 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
 Now, what I would like to see sometime is changing from Windows 98 to
  XP compaired to changing from 98 to Linux...
 
  What about it?
 
  I went from 98 to XP last summer, and learned my way around XP while I
  was waiting for my linux CDs to arrive.
 
  Now I make a little pin money troubleshooting XP systems in my
  neighborhood, but the only time *this* *here* computer boots into
  Window$ is when I need to print something.  That was today, and  ...two
  or three weeks ago, I'd guess.
 
  Julie

 Was it harder adapting to XP, or Linux?

It's worse coming the other way. I started on BSD unix version III running on
a DEC PDP-7  in the late 70's. For the next 26 years I worked exclusively on
various unix's systems - ATT SVR4, HPUX, AUX, Solaris, etc. For family use we 
have
always had Mac's. I managed to never once use a windows machine or intel
hardware. Well that all changed last November. I was forced (because I like to 
eat)
to take job where I am now working in the wintel environment. This has been the 
most
frustrating 3 months of my life. A large part of it is my mental block against 
this
environment, but it's also because windows seems to be random while unix is
orthogonal and deterministic. I swear I think there a random number generator in
windows and when you boot it that determines how it will function that day ;-)
But I learn so much new stuff every day ... and I have managed to bring in 2 
linux boxes here 
(and I've only been here 3 months!) I just wish there was a list like this for 
windows!
 
-larry
winmail.dat
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Mikkel L. Ellertson

Martell, Larry wrote:
Julie Sloan wrote:
On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:28 am, l_duvall wrote:
As someone who once upon a time did full-time tech support for Windows 95
 98, believe me, you can do as much damage in 95/98 as an ordinary user
as you can as su in Linux, but 95/98 requires a lot less effort to do so.
But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!

I've run applications that have broken windows so badly I had to
reinstall it. Just happened last week - an app trashed a bunch of dll's.
Who writes stuff like this?? What are they thinking??
Something like this could never happen in unix.
 
-larry

You get lazy programmers. From what I understand, it is less work to use 
your custom version of a standard .dll then it is to have the modified 
functions in your own .dll and call them in place of the standard ones. 
So installing your package replaces the standard .dll with your version. 
It works fine untill the next program is installed that replaces the 
same .dll with their version, and breaks the first program.

The same thing could be done in Linux, but with most package managment 
systems, it is more work then doing it the right way. At least rpm, 
urpmi, and aptget will all yell if you try to replace a library with 
your own version...

Mikkel

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Ronald J. Hall

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 07:59 am, Julie Sloan wrote:

  Was it harder adapting to XP, or Linux?

 Linux was harder, no question about it.

Just shows how truly different peoples experiences can be. I started out in 
computing in 1983 with an Atari 800Xl. Moved up to the Atari ST line around 
1985 or so. Kept right on, keepin' on with an Atari Falcon, one of which, in 
a highly modded form, I have to this day. I ran MINT on it - a Unix, Linux, 
FreeBSD variant. After Atari Corp folded for good, and I needed something 
newer, it was almost with a feeling of I'm home that I installed Mandrake 
v7.0 on my first hand-built PC.

Then my sons wanted a Windows 98 partition on their comps for games that 
weren't available under Linux.

Oh my God! - the shock of actually using that POS software. Ugh and a half!

So for me, I could never look at Windows as easier.

Amazing how different perspectives can be, isn't it? (Not right or wrong, just 
different).:-)

-- 
 
   /\
   DarkLord
   \/



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Ronald J. Hall

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 09:00 am, Julie Sloan wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:30 am, riccardo wrote:
  On Tuesday 01 March 2005 08:19 am, Julie Sloan referred:
   handy, to have entire duplicate system
 
   ~ for example . . . have cron daemon, once-a-week, run script :-

 Thanks riccardo, I will add this and your run daily script into that file
 of notes I mentioned to Rosemary.

 FWIW, the lazy way I take notes:
 first, if I think there is something I need to learn *at this stage*,  I
 hang on to the email for a little while.  then later, cleaning out my
 mailbox, I review it again, deciding if this is something I should make a
 note of.  If so, I mark it some way.  Another few days goes by and I'll get
 the pertinent information out of each of these marked emails and paste into
 this one big confusing file.  I reread the file every week or two, grepping
 a little more each time.  :)

 It works for me but might not for everyone else.

 Julie

I've got this:

/home/darklord/Documents/Linux Refs/

where every e-mail that has been valuable to me gets stored.

Yes Julie, it does work. :-)

-- 
 
   /\
   DarkLord
   \/



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread Travis Crook

On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 06:50 -0500, Kenneth Rhodes wrote:
 On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 23:45 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
  SnapafunFrank wrote:
 
   Hope you got Mozilla handy 'cause I'm not sure if Firefox can handle 
   this site but have I got it easy for you
  
   Go to this site : http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz [ note the 
   *.gz bit - Mozilla can handle that  - let me know if Firefox can 
   please ] ...
  
   At the very top left of this page is this link.. 
   http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2
  
   Download that - unzip it - and you have a pdf file to print to hard 
   copy. Warning, I have done this myself with rute and that is a book 
   sized printout.
  
   

  
  
   UPDATE:
  
   Tried the above link in konqueror and not only did it open the site 
   page but when I did a simple left click on the pdf link, konqueror 
   offered to open it for me there and then .. ( it's downloading as I 
   write this.) So from pdf to printer is a snap - Er... I have xpdf and 
   Acrobat5 installed. The later gives me more printing layout options, 
   though if I were to dig further there would likely be something in 
   kprinter that would do enough to satisfy my requirements.
  
   Sort of supports my earlier posting in this thread ... I must use what 
   is available first, then experiment with the latest and greatest.
 
  The link works in Firefox and Epiphany as well.  :)

Opera too!


-- 
Travis Crook
Visions Beyond
www.VisionsBeyond.com
(208) 478-7836



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

RE: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Kirschner, Mark

Julie Sloan claimed:

But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!

Julie
-- 

Um, you need to boot the computer for it to break  ;-)

I think XP is the first version of Windows I've not broken to the point
of re-installing.  3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000...can't count the
number of times I've reinstalled my work box running them.  Never mind
my home computer.

The only reason I've not toasted XP is I don't push my machine as much
as I used to.  I test on test machines rather than my own.  I don't mess
with the home computer, because I want to stay on the wife's good side
(no couch to sleep on, if ya know what I mean).

Mark Kirschner


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues


 
  Very true - I had forgotten how *lost* I was when first started using the
  computer.  Now I'm lost if can't have access to it for a few days!

 !!!DAYS

 mhhmmmp.   You're not as addicted as I am.

 Julie--


I didn't like to say hours!!!  Which is the reality.  I can cope if I am at 
work though 

Rosemary

Which I had better get to now!


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread et

Travis Crook wrote:
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 06:50 -0500, Kenneth Rhodes wrote:
 

On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 23:45 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
   

SnapafunFrank wrote:
 

Hope you got Mozilla handy 'cause I'm not sure if Firefox can handle 
this site but have I got it easy for you

Go to this site : http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz [ note the 
*.gz bit - Mozilla can handle that  - let me know if Firefox can 
please ] ...

At the very top left of this page is this link.. 
http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2

Download that - unzip it - and you have a pdf file to print to hard 
copy. Warning, I have done this myself with rute and that is a book 
sized printout.

 

UPDATE:
Tried the above link in konqueror and not only did it open the site 
page but when I did a simple left click on the pdf link, konqueror 
offered to open it for me there and then .. ( it's downloading as I 
write this.) So from pdf to printer is a snap - Er... I have xpdf and 
Acrobat5 installed. The later gives me more printing layout options, 
though if I were to dig further there would likely be something in 
kprinter that would do enough to satisfy my requirements.

Sort of supports my earlier posting in this thread ... I must use what 
is available first, then experiment with the latest and greatest.
   

The link works in Firefox and Epiphany as well.  :)
   

Opera too!
 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

 

you all do know that as root urpmi rute will install rute,, adn just 
typing 'rute' in a cli will start rute

---
[This E-mail was scanned for viruses]


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 12:16 pm, Kirschner, Mark wrote:
 Julie Sloan claimed:

 But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!

 Julie
 --

 Um, you need to boot the computer for it to break  ;-)

Maybe I never broke it or got so virus'd up I couldn't fix it myself because 
I didn't use IE or OE.

Maybe I was just lucky, or maybe I was lucky in another way, running into 
people on USENET who told me get a real ISP get a real browser and 
join cauce.

So within three or four months of getting a computer (with cringe advice 
from Dad, who STILL swears the sun rises and sets on AOHell), I'd moved 
from AOL to mindspring, from IE to Netsape, was using Eudora-light for a 
mail reader and FreeAgent for newsgroups, and was reading snopes.com and 
symantec before forwarding all those warnings.  g  And preaching to 
anyone who'd listen that AOL is the kindergarden of the internet - fine, 
start there, but move on as soon as you are able or you'll never learn 
anything.  Now I'm applying all I've learned into getting a real OS, and 
it's really frustrating to be back in preschool.

Maybe this musing is getting a bit too OT for this list.  :)

Julie
-- 




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Aron Smith

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 11:14 am, Julie Sloan wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 12:16 pm, Kirschner, Mark wrote:
  Julie Sloan claimed:
 
  But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!
 
  Julie
  --
 
  Um, you need to boot the computer for it to break  ;-)

 Maybe I never broke it or got so virus'd up I couldn't fix it myself
 because I didn't use IE or OE.

 Maybe I was just lucky, or maybe I was lucky in another way, running into
 people on USENET who told me get a real ISP get a real browser and
 join cauce.

 So within three or four months of getting a computer (with cringe advice
 from Dad, who STILL swears the sun rises and sets on AOHell), I'd moved
 from AOL to mindspring, from IE to Netsape, was using Eudora-light for a
 mail reader and FreeAgent for newsgroups, and was reading snopes.com and
 symantec before forwarding all those warnings.  g  And preaching to
 anyone who'd listen that AOL is the kindergarden of the internet - fine,
 start there, but move on as soon as you are able or you'll never learn
 anything.  Now I'm applying all I've learned into getting a real OS, and
 it's really frustrating to be back in preschool.

 Maybe this musing is getting a bit too OT for this list.  :)
not at all we have all gone through similar times (except for the Ubergeeks 
that hang out on the cooker list)

 Julie


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread et

et wrote:
and I want to appologize for posting that to Newbie. was 
meant/thought to be on the OT list
my bad


---
[This E-mail was scanned for viruses]


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread et

Julie Sloan wrote:
On Tuesday 01 March 2005 12:16 pm, Kirschner, Mark wrote:
 

Julie Sloan claimed:
But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!
Julie
--
Um, you need to boot the computer for it to break  ;-)
   

Maybe I never broke it or got so virus'd up I couldn't fix it myself because 
I didn't use IE or OE.

Maybe I was just lucky, or maybe I was lucky in another way, running into 
people on USENET who told me get a real ISP get a real browser and 
join cauce.

So within three or four months of getting a computer (with cringe advice 
from Dad, who STILL swears the sun rises and sets on AOHell), I'd moved 
from AOL to mindspring, from IE to Netsape, was using Eudora-light for a 
mail reader and FreeAgent for newsgroups, and was reading snopes.com and 
symantec before forwarding all those warnings.  g  And preaching to 
anyone who'd listen that AOL is the kindergarden of the internet - fine, 
start there, but move on as soon as you are able or you'll never learn 
anything.  Now I'm applying all I've learned into getting a real OS, and 
it's really frustrating to be back in preschool.

Maybe this musing is getting a bit too OT for this list.  :)
Julie
 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

 

you do know,,, AOL stands for Assholes On Line
---
[This E-mail was scanned for viruses]


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Duncan Anderson

Martell, Larry wrote:
On Monday 28 February 2005 09:26 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

Julie Sloan wrote:

Was it harder adapting to XP, or Linux?

It's worse coming the other way. I started on BSD unix version III running on
a DEC PDP-7 in the late 70's. For the next 26 years I worked exclusively on
various unix's systems - ATT SVR4, HPUX, AUX, Solaris, etc. For family use we have
always had Mac's. I managed to never once use a windows machine or intel
hardware. Well that all changed last November. I was forced (because I like to eat)
to take job where I am now working in the wintel environment. This has been the most
frustrating 3 months of my life. A large part of it is my mental block against this
environment, but it's also because windows seems to be random while unix is
orthogonal and deterministic. I swear I think there a random number generator in
windows and when you boot it that determines how it will function that day ;-)
But I learn so much new stuff every day ... and I have managed to bring in 2 linux boxes here
(and I've only been here 3 months!) I just wish there was a list like this for windows!

-larry

I have to concur with Larry. Windows is a nightmare of frustration for
me. I have been involved in UNIX support for nearly twenty years and
Linux for about nine. I have managed not to use Windows except very
superficially in passing until very recently when my wife bought an
Apple iPod which seems impervious to my efforts to get it mounted on my
Linux box. My only choice at the moment is to run Windows on my laptop
using Samba to allow iTunes to access a directory containing MP3 files
on the Linux server. What a pain! Editing text files is particularly
irritating because my fingers operate in vi mode reflexively.

I also find myself cursing over Windows' apparent lack of consistency in
terms of where it decides to save things. I could go on...

Fortunately I found something called Cygwin which renders certain
aspects of my Windows partition more congenial.

My main impression of Windows is that it makes a lot of things
unnecessarily difficult!

regards
Duncan

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 01:17 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:
 What a pain! Editing text files is particularly
 irritating because my fingers operate in vi mode reflexively.

Get vim for Windows.  A decent vi emulator, heck, I use it under Mandrake and 
on Sun instead of vi.

 I also find myself cursing over Windows' apparent lack of consistency in
 terms of where it decides to save things. I could go on...

There is a decent shell toolkit for Windows, the name escapes me at the moment 
but it has ksh and most of the simple command line stuff.  MKS Toolkit, 
perhaps?

 My main impression of Windows is that it makes a lot of things
 unnecessarily difficult!

Some, certainly, other outright dangerous (registry editing, anyone?).  If you 
ever have to write stuff at the system level it's downright schizophrenic 
with something like 3 sets of system calls for file I/O (as compared to the 
UNIX norm of 1 set).  True pain on Windows is writing something that's to run 
like a cron job on UNIX.  On UNIX you make it work then toss it into cron, on 
Windows you basically have to write a service around it, a completely 
different run environment, and it's impossible to test.  Bah!


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Duncan Anderson

Russ Kepler wrote:
On Tuesday 01 March 2005 01:17 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:
 

 What a pain! Editing text files is particularly
irritating because my fingers operate in vi mode reflexively.
   

Get vim for Windows.  A decent vi emulator, heck, I use it under Mandrake and 
on Sun instead of vi.
 

I used to use the MKS toolkit version of vi on DOS as well as the Korn 
shell and awk, grep, sed, et al. It was one of the reasons I never 
learned DOS properly! vim is cool, though.

 

I also find myself cursing over Windows' apparent lack of consistency in
terms of where it decides to save things. I could go on...
   

There is a decent shell toolkit for Windows, the name escapes me at the moment 
but it has ksh and most of the simple command line stuff.  MKS Toolkit, 
perhaps?
 

Yes. Mortice Kern Associates from Canada, I think.
 

My main impression of Windows is that it makes a lot of things
unnecessarily difficult!
   

Some, certainly, other outright dangerous (registry editing, anyone?).  If you 
ever have to write stuff at the system level it's downright schizophrenic 
with something like 3 sets of system calls for file I/O (as compared to the 
UNIX norm of 1 set).  True pain on Windows is writing something that's to run 
like a cron job on UNIX.  On UNIX you make it work then toss it into cron, on 
Windows you basically have to write a service around it, a completely 
different run environment, and it's impossible to test.  Bah!
 

Eek! (He makes the sign to ward off demons!)
cheers
Duncan


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:17 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:

 Editing text files is particularly irritating because my fingers operate
 in vi mode reflexively. 

I am looking forward to some day soon being able to say the same thing.  :)

--


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 01:46 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:

 I used to use the MKS toolkit version of vi on DOS as well as the Korn
 shell and awk, grep, sed, et al. It was one of the reasons I never
 learned DOS properly! vim is cool, though.

I don't think there's a 'proper' way to learn MS-DOS.  My first conputer was 
an IBM 360/65 running a timeshare simulator called RAX, heck, the first 
programming test I ever took was to see if I could hold a 1401 punchboard at 
arms length, so I'm a proper dinosaur.  

 Eek! (He makes the sign to ward off demons!)

I still do most of my software development (bioinformatics in Java, mostly) on 
my Linux box and move things to the Windows box only for integration testing.  
The Linux box tends to feel a little slower than the Windows box but 
development is faster as I don't crash it near as often.  While working hard 
on the Windows platform I'll crash the development environment 2-3 times a 
day, losing anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour's work each time.  At least 
it's not my money, if they want me to work there they can pay my rates for 
the time.


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 01:54 pm, Julie Sloan wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:17 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:
  Editing text files is particularly irritating because my fingers operate
  in vi mode reflexively.

 I am looking forward to some day soon being able to say the same thing.  :)

As long as you don't invoke the dreaded emacs you're all right with me.  
(There's something wrong with an editor that hauls around an eliza in every 
instance).


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Mikkel L. Ellertson

Russ Kepler wrote:
On Tuesday 01 March 2005 01:54 pm, Julie Sloan wrote:
 

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:17 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:
   

Editing text files is particularly irritating because my fingers operate
in vi mode reflexively.
 

I am looking forward to some day soon being able to say the same thing.  :)
   

As long as you don't invoke the dreaded emacs you're all right with me.  
(There's something wrong with an editor that hauls around an eliza in every 
instance).

 

Too many years of using Word Star. I feel right at home in Joe. But 
then, I am at home with the editor that comes with Midnight Commander 
(mcedit), and a couple of flavors of Norton Editor. I can use VI, but it 
will never be my favorite...

Mikkel


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Lorin Pino

On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 22:17 +0200, Duncan Anderson wrote:
 Martell, Larry wrote:
 
 On Monday 28 February 2005 09:26 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
   
 
 Julie Sloan wrote:
 
 
 Was it harder adapting to XP, or Linux?
 
 
 
 It's worse coming the other way. I started on BSD unix version III running on
 a DEC PDP-7  in the late 70's. For the next 26 years I worked exclusively on
 various unix's systems - ATT SVR4, HPUX, AUX, Solaris, etc. For family use 
 we have
 always had Mac's. I managed to never once use a windows machine or intel
 hardware. Well that all changed last November. I was forced (because I like 
 to eat)
 to take job where I am now working in the wintel environment. This has been 
 the most
 frustrating 3 months of my life. A large part of it is my mental block 
 against this
 environment, but it's also because windows seems to be random while unix is
 orthogonal and deterministic. I swear I think there a random number 
 generator in
 windows and when you boot it that determines how it will function that day 
 ;-)
 But I learn so much new stuff every day ... and I have managed to bring in 2 
 linux boxes here 
 (and I've only been here 3 months!) I just wish there was a list like this 
 for windows!

There is!  http://list.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/pc-newbies 

My father uses this list for his problems.  I have never used it, so if
this address is wrong, then let me know, and I will get the updated
address from him.  

HTH ~Lorin

 
 -larry
   
 
 I have to concur with Larry. Windows is a nightmare of frustration for 
 me. I have been involved in UNIX support for nearly twenty years and 
 Linux for about nine. I have managed not to use Windows except very 
 superficially in passing until very recently when my wife bought an 
 Apple iPod which seems impervious to my efforts to get it mounted on my 
 Linux box. My only choice at the moment is to run Windows on my laptop 
 using Samba to allow iTunes to access a directory containing MP3 files 
 on the Linux server. What a pain! Editing text files is particularly 
 irritating because my fingers operate in vi mode reflexively.
 
 I also find myself cursing over Windows' apparent lack of consistency in 
 terms of where it decides to save things. I could go on...
 
 Fortunately I found something called Cygwin which renders certain 
 aspects of my Windows partition more congenial.
 
 My main impression of Windows is that it makes a lot of things 
 unnecessarily difficult!
 
 regards
 Duncan
 
 
 Plain text document attachment (message.footer)
 
 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
 Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
 Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

RE: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Martell, Larry

On Tue 3/1/2005 3:31 PM Lorin Pino wrote:
 On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 22:17 +0200, Duncan Anderson wrote:
 Martell, Larry wrote:

 On Monday 28 February 2005 09:26 pm, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
  
 
 Julie Sloan wrote:

 
 Was it harder adapting to XP, or Linux?

 
 
 It's worse coming the other way. I started on BSD unix version III running 
 on
 a DEC PDP-7  in the late 70's. For the next 26 years I worked exclusively on
 various unix's systems - ATT SVR4, HPUX, AUX, Solaris, etc. For family use 
 we have
 always had Mac's. I managed to never once use a windows machine or intel
 hardware. Well that all changed last November. I was forced (because I like 
 to eat)
 to take job where I am now working in the wintel environment. This has been 
 the most
 frustrating 3 months of my life. A large part of it is my mental block 
 against this
 environment, but it's also because windows seems to be random while unix is
 orthogonal and deterministic. I swear I think there a random number 
 generator in
 windows and when you boot it that determines how it will function that day 
 ;-)
 But I learn so much new stuff every day ... and I have managed to bring in 
 2 linux boxes here
 (and I've only been here 3 months!) I just wish there was a list like this 
 for windows!

 There is!  http://list.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/pc-newbies

 My father uses this list for his problems.  I have never used it, so if
 this address is wrong, then let me know, and I will get the updated
 address from him. 

That URL says:


list.sonic.net Mailing Lists: No such list pc-newbies


-lary

winmail.dat
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 05:01 pm, Russ Kepler wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 01:54 pm, Julie Sloan wrote:
  On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:17 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:
   Editing text files is particularly irritating because my fingers
   operate in vi mode reflexively.
 
  I am looking forward to some day soon being able to say the same thing.
   :)

 As long as you don't invoke the dreaded emacs you're all right with me.
 (There's something wrong with an editor that hauls around an eliza in
 every instance).


Ok.  Would you please repeat that, more slowly this time, and in newbie 
English?  Thanks.

Julie
-- 


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Aron Smith

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 06:21 pm, Julie Sloan wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 05:01 pm, Russ Kepler wrote:
  On Tuesday 01 March 2005 01:54 pm, Julie Sloan wrote:
   On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:17 pm, Duncan Anderson wrote:
Editing text files is particularly irritating because my fingers
operate in vi mode reflexively.
  
   I am looking forward to some day soon being able to say the same thing.
  
:)
 
  As long as you don't invoke the dreaded emacs you're all right with me.
  (There's something wrong with an editor that hauls around an eliza in
  every instance).

 Ok.  Would you please repeat that, more slowly this time, and in newbie
 English?  Thanks.
Don't even go there ..they are about to restart the great emacs vs vi war

 Julie


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 07:21 pm, Julie Sloan wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 05:01 pm, Russ Kepler wrote:
  As long as you don't invoke the dreaded emacs you're all right with me.
  (There's something wrong with an editor that hauls around an eliza in
  every instance).

 Ok.  Would you please repeat that, more slowly this time, and in newbie
 English?  Thanks.

Emacs is a honkin' big program that initially was intended to be an editor.  
The vi crowd always thought that the name stood for Eighty Megabytes And 
Constantly Swapping.  I was making fun of the propensity of the emacs crowd 
to cram about everything they can into emacs.  It's got a lisp environment, 
and in there it has a program that simulates a non-directive psychologist.  
The latter program's name is eliza, some folks know it as doctor.  All it 
really does is a simple word analysis of your statements and regurgitates it 
back at you (or the generic response H if it can't figure out what to 
say). 


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Eric Huff

  But I never broke windows so badly I had to reinstall it!
 
 You didn't try very hard! I have broke almost every OS I have
 worked with- no harm in experimenting since that is how you learn
 - as long as you learn - and you have the time to set aside for
 reinstalling!

I have broken most of them, too.  But i never broke the OS on my
Timex Sinclair 2068  :)

eric

-- 
Mandrake HowTo's  More:  http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Duncan Anderson

Russ Kepler wrote:
I don't think there's a 'proper' way to learn MS-DOS.  My first conputer was 
an IBM 360/65 running a timeshare simulator called RAX, heck, the first 
programming test I ever took was to see if I could hold a 1401 punchboard at 
arms length, so I'm a proper dinosaur.  
 

My first programming job was on a Wang 2200 running WANGBASIC 2. 
(cringe) It had 22KB of RAM per user, and a 20MB removable Winchester 
which was the size of a rubbish bin lid. The drive mechanism was the 
size of an industrial washing machine.

Fortunately the company wanted to use the new technology, so they had 
a 2200 emulator running on top of Xenix on a Wang APC (non-IBM 
compatible 286) as a platform for their package. This was my escape 
route into the UNIX world.

(Now I think we have deviated completely from newbie to dinosaur - 
perhaps we should start a new saurian mailing list.)

cheers
Duncan


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology

2005-03-01 Thread SnapafunFrank

et wrote:
Travis Crook wrote:
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 06:50 -0500, Kenneth Rhodes wrote:
 

On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 23:45 +1300, SnapafunFrank wrote:
  

SnapafunFrank wrote:


Hope you got Mozilla handy 'cause I'm not sure if Firefox can 
handle this site but have I got it easy for you

Go to this site : http://rute.2038bug.com/index.html.gz [ note the 
*.gz bit - Mozilla can handle that  - let me know if Firefox can 
please ] ...

At the very top left of this page is this link.. 
http://www.icon.co.za/~psheer/rute.pdf.bz2

Download that - unzip it - and you have a pdf file to print to 
hard copy. Warning, I have done this myself with rute and that is 
a book sized printout.

 

UPDATE:
Tried the above link in konqueror and not only did it open the 
site page but when I did a simple left click on the pdf link, 
konqueror offered to open it for me there and then .. ( it's 
downloading as I write this.) So from pdf to printer is a snap - 
Er... I have xpdf and Acrobat5 installed. The later gives me more 
printing layout options, though if I were to dig further there 
would likely be something in kprinter that would do enough to 
satisfy my requirements.

Sort of supports my earlier posting in this thread ... I must use 
what is available first, then experiment with the latest and 
greatest.
  

The link works in Firefox and Epiphany as well.  :)
  

Opera too!
 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to 
http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

 

you all do know that as root urpmi rute will install rute,, adn just 
typing 'rute' in a cli will start rute

---
[This E-mail was scanned for viruses]

Yeah, but Rosemary was talking of printing it, possibly from within 
windows, so the pdf file seemed to be the way to go.

--
Newbie Seeking USER_FUNCTIONALITY always!
Regards
SnapafunFrank
Big or small, a challenge requires the same commitment to resolve.
Registered Linux User # 324213 



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

On Tuesday 01 March 2005 10:06 pm, Russ Kepler wrote:
 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 07:21 pm, Julie Sloan wrote:
  On Tuesday 01 March 2005 05:01 pm, Russ Kepler wrote:
   As long as you don't invoke the dreaded emacs you're all right with
   me. (There's something wrong with an editor that hauls around an
   eliza in every instance).
 
  Ok.  Would you please repeat that, more slowly this time, and in newbie
  English?  Thanks.

 Emacs is a honkin' big program that initially was intended to be an
 editor. The vi crowd always thought that the name stood for Eighty
 Megabytes And Constantly Swapping.  I was making fun of the propensity
 of the emacs crowd to cram about everything they can into emacs.  It's
 got a lisp environment, and in there it has a program that simulates a
 non-directive psychologist. The latter program's name is eliza, some
 folks know it as doctor.  All it really does is a simple word analysis of
 your statements and regurgitates it back at you (or the generic response
 H if it can't figure out what to say).


Hmmm.  Okay.  I saw the psychologist tool when I was exploring emacs a few 
weeks ago but didn't make note of the name.  :)  Thanks for clearing that 
up.  So, you're saying VI is a more compact program?  ducking

-- 


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues

2005-03-01 Thread Len Lawrence

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:59:30 +
Ronald J. Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Tuesday 01 March 2005 09:00 am, Julie Sloan wrote:
  On Tuesday 01 March 2005 03:30 am, riccardo wrote:
   On Tuesday 01 March 2005 08:19 am, Julie Sloan referred:
handy, to have entire duplicate system
  
~ for example . . . have cron daemon, once-a-week, run script :-
 
  Thanks riccardo, I will add this and your run daily script into that file
  of notes I mentioned to Rosemary.
 
  FWIW, the lazy way I take notes:
  first, if I think there is something I need to learn *at this stage*,  I
  hang on to the email for a little while.  then later, cleaning out my
  mailbox, I review it again, deciding if this is something I should make a
  note of.  If so, I mark it some way.  Another few days goes by and I'll get
  the pertinent information out of each of these marked emails and paste into
  this one big confusing file.  I reread the file every week or two, grepping
  a little more each time.  :)
 
  It works for me but might not for everyone else.
 
  Julie
 
 I've got this:
 
 /home/darklord/Documents/Linux Refs/
 
 where every e-mail that has been valuable to me gets stored.
 
 Yes Julie, it does work. :-)
 
Great subject line this - difficult to hijack the thread!
The various notepad facilities can be helpful as well.  Drag and drop work for
all I have tried.  There is xpad for sticky notes - maybe a bit messy after a
while, and my favourite - gjots.  I have an icon on the panel so that it can be
accessed from any workspace and fullscreen application.  It is a one level
hierarchical notepad, simple, clean, and functional.  KDE has something similar;
kjots maybe?

-- 
Len Lawrence
--
Be nice to people on the way up, because you'll meet them on your way down.
-- Wilson Mizner
--


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com

Re: [newbie] various issues - apology