OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I pulled the trigger and bought a new camera today. Sorry, it isn't a Pentax.

I usually don't buy anything new right out of the gate. Particularly
pro-class cameras ... I usually wait until they get well into the
market, until the issues and workarounds are known, until the prices
drop a little bit. I usually wait until my image processing tools can
handle their raw files.

The Olympus E-5 manual is in front of me. The battery is charged, the
50 Macro is on the body, a card is in the slot.

I'd put in an order for one yesterday on Amazon but their vendors had
already sold out the first shipment. No biggie, I'm patient. Today,
the local store called and said, "We have one for you." I went up to
see it, dickered a little on the price (sales tax here would be almost
$160), we came to an agreement discounting the price, and I took it
home.

First very raw impression: I did the Right Thing. Since I'm fully
setup with all the FourThirds pro-grade lenses, flash and accessories
I need, it only made sense to keep going and get a current pro-grade
body. I'd planned to buy an E-3 when the E-5 came out, take advantage
of the usual dip in prices. But when I read the spec, the E-5 had all
the right improvements for my needs. It feels great in my hands, I
like the control layout and menus, the viewfinder is superb. It's very
responsive, and pretty darn quiet in operation. The rest ... well, I'm
only a few pages into the manual as yet. There's a lot in here.

I hope Adobe hurries up with DNG Converter/Camera Raw and Lightroom
upgrades. I need to book some work and let this beastie pay for
itself. :-)

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

Pixel peepers and sensor snobs will never use four thirds.  However,
the images are fine and thats what matters.  The very high level pro
cameras won't go this way but sub $100 small EVIL cams will do just
fine.  Especially since even the pros like a small street camera.  The
problem for Sony is that not every one will buy into the lenses,
whereas Micro 4/3 will have a number of makers and many adaptors.
Remember that most of the money is actually made on the P&S cameras.
The only real problem I see might be high noise but I bet the
processing will take care of that.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Jaume Lahuerta  wrote:
iso>
>
>> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi 
>>wrote:> > I  pulled the trigger and bought a new camera today. Sorry, it 
>>isn't a
>>Pentax.
>
>> >
>> > I usually don't buy anything new right out of the gate.  Particularly
>> > pro-class cameras ... I usually wait until they get well  into the
>> > market, until the issues and workarounds are known, until the  prices
>> > drop a little bit. I usually wait until my image processing tools  can
>> > handle their raw files.
>> >
>> > The Olympus E-5 manual is in  front of me. The battery is charged, the
>> > 50 Macro is on the body, a card  is in the slot.
>> >
>> > I'd put in an order for one yesterday on Amazon  but their vendors had
>> > already sold out the first shipment. No biggie,  I'm patient. Today,
>> > the local store called and said, "We have one for  you." I went up to
>> > see it, dickered a little on the price (sales tax  here would be almost
>> > $160), we came to an agreement discounting the  price, and I took it
>> > home.
>> >
>> > First very raw impression: I  did the Right Thing. Since I'm fully
>> > setup with all the FourThirds  pro-grade lenses, flash and accessories
>> > I need, it only made sense to  keep going and get a current pro-grade
>> > body. I'd planned to buy an E-3  when the E-5 came out, take advantage
>> > of the usual dip in prices. But  when I read the spec, the E-5 had all
>> > the right improvements for my  needs. It feels great in my hands, I
>> > like the control layout and menus,  the viewfinder is superb. It's very
>> > responsive, and pretty darn quiet in  operation. The rest ... well, I'm
>> > only a few pages into the manual as  yet. There's a lot in here.
>> >
>
> Congratulations Godfrey.
>
> However, I have some doubts about the 4/3 - m4/3 systems:
>
> For me 4/3 was about compactness: 'hey, forget those dinosaurs tied to the 
> film
> era...'.
> But I have just checked and the K-5 is smaller and lighter than the E-5...
>
> Maybe for this reason everybody assumes that the E-5 will be the last 4/3 
> camera
> and the future of this format is in the flourishing m4/3 system (and probably
> the next 'pro' body will be in some sort of m4/3).
>
> But also, looking at the last products from Samsung and Sony, I am not also 
> sure
> about the size advantage of m4/3 again.
> And, since IQ will be always inferior at 4/3 land (as FF fanboys like to say
> when bashing APS-C)...waht is the sustainable advantage of m4/3 over Sony Nex
> cameras, for instance?
>
> Regards,
> Jaume
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Steve Desjardins

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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

Make that sub $1000 cameras.  A man can dream.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Steven Desjardins  wrote:
> Pixel peepers and sensor snobs will never use four thirds.  However,
> the images are fine and thats what matters.  The very high level pro
> cameras won't go this way but sub $100 small EVIL cams will do just
> fine.  Especially since even the pros like a small street camera.  The
> problem for Sony is that not every one will buy into the lenses,
> whereas Micro 4/3 will have a number of makers and many adaptors.
> Remember that most of the money is actually made on the P&S cameras.
> The only real problem I see might be high noise but I bet the
> processing will take care of that.
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Jaume Lahuerta  wrote:
> iso>
>>
>>> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi 
>>>wrote:> > I  pulled the trigger and bought a new camera today. Sorry, it 
>>>isn't a
>>>Pentax.
>>
>>> >
>>> > I usually don't buy anything new right out of the gate.  Particularly
>>> > pro-class cameras ... I usually wait until they get well  into the
>>> > market, until the issues and workarounds are known, until the  prices
>>> > drop a little bit. I usually wait until my image processing tools  can
>>> > handle their raw files.
>>> >
>>> > The Olympus E-5 manual is in  front of me. The battery is charged, the
>>> > 50 Macro is on the body, a card  is in the slot.
>>> >
>>> > I'd put in an order for one yesterday on Amazon  but their vendors had
>>> > already sold out the first shipment. No biggie,  I'm patient. Today,
>>> > the local store called and said, "We have one for  you." I went up to
>>> > see it, dickered a little on the price (sales tax  here would be almost
>>> > $160), we came to an agreement discounting the  price, and I took it
>>> > home.
>>> >
>>> > First very raw impression: I  did the Right Thing. Since I'm fully
>>> > setup with all the FourThirds  pro-grade lenses, flash and accessories
>>> > I need, it only made sense to  keep going and get a current pro-grade
>>> > body. I'd planned to buy an E-3  when the E-5 came out, take advantage
>>> > of the usual dip in prices. But  when I read the spec, the E-5 had all
>>> > the right improvements for my  needs. It feels great in my hands, I
>>> > like the control layout and menus,  the viewfinder is superb. It's very
>>> > responsive, and pretty darn quiet in  operation. The rest ... well, I'm
>>> > only a few pages into the manual as  yet. There's a lot in here.
>>> >
>>
>> Congratulations Godfrey.
>>
>> However, I have some doubts about the 4/3 - m4/3 systems:
>>
>> For me 4/3 was about compactness: 'hey, forget those dinosaurs tied to the 
>> film
>> era...'.
>> But I have just checked and the K-5 is smaller and lighter than the E-5...
>>
>> Maybe for this reason everybody assumes that the E-5 will be the last 4/3 
>> camera
>> and the future of this format is in the flourishing m4/3 system (and probably
>> the next 'pro' body will be in some sort of m4/3).
>>
>> But also, looking at the last products from Samsung and Sony, I am not also 
>> sure
>> about the size advantage of m4/3 again.
>> And, since IQ will be always inferior at 4/3 land (as FF fanboys like to say
>> when bashing APS-C)...waht is the sustainable advantage of m4/3 over Sony Nex
>> cameras, for instance?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jaume
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Desjardins
>



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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

I'll go out on a limb and speculate that Godfrey's hands fit an E-5 better than 
a K-5. Godfrey is a BIG GUY!  One of the big selling points of the Pentax K 
system is size...small, high quality prime lenses, and small bodies. Olympus is 
just too chunky for me to carry it around for hours. 

Jeffery


On Oct 21, 2010, at 5:09 PM, Jaume Lahuerta wrote:

> 
> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  
>> wrote:> > I  pulled the trigger and bought a new camera today. Sorry, it 
>> isn't a  
>> Pentax.
> 
>>> 
>>> I usually don't buy anything new right out of the gate.  Particularly
>>> pro-class cameras ... I usually wait until they get well  into the
>>> market, until the issues and workarounds are known, until the  prices
>>> drop a little bit. I usually wait until my image processing tools  can
>>> handle their raw files.
>>> 
>>> The Olympus E-5 manual is in  front of me. The battery is charged, the
>>> 50 Macro is on the body, a card  is in the slot.
>>> 
>>> I'd put in an order for one yesterday on Amazon  but their vendors had
>>> already sold out the first shipment. No biggie,  I'm patient. Today,
>>> the local store called and said, "We have one for  you." I went up to
>>> see it, dickered a little on the price (sales tax  here would be almost
>>> $160), we came to an agreement discounting the  price, and I took it
>>> home.
>>> 
>>> First very raw impression: I  did the Right Thing. Since I'm fully
>>> setup with all the FourThirds  pro-grade lenses, flash and accessories
>>> I need, it only made sense to  keep going and get a current pro-grade
>>> body. I'd planned to buy an E-3  when the E-5 came out, take advantage
>>> of the usual dip in prices. But  when I read the spec, the E-5 had all
>>> the right improvements for my  needs. It feels great in my hands, I
>>> like the control layout and menus,  the viewfinder is superb. It's very
>>> responsive, and pretty darn quiet in  operation. The rest ... well, I'm
>>> only a few pages into the manual as  yet. There's a lot in here.
>>> 
> 
> Congratulations Godfrey.
> 
> However, I have some doubts about the 4/3 - m4/3 systems:
> 
> For me 4/3 was about compactness: 'hey, forget those dinosaurs tied to the 
> film 
> era...'.
> But I have just checked and the K-5 is smaller and lighter than the E-5...
> 
> Maybe for this reason everybody assumes that the E-5 will be the last 4/3 
> camera 
> and the future of this format is in the flourishing m4/3 system (and probably 
> the next 'pro' body will be in some sort of m4/3).
> 
> But also, looking at the last products from Samsung and Sony, I am not also 
> sure 
> about the size advantage of m4/3 again.
> And, since IQ will be always inferior at 4/3 land (as FF fanboys like to say 
> when bashing APS-C)...waht is the sustainable advantage of m4/3 over Sony Nex 
> cameras, for instance?
> 
> Regards,
> Jaume
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 20/10/10, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>It feels great in my hands,

I'm sorry, you're not supposed to **enjoy** the gear!! It's a tool!!

;-)

--


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  Cotty


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--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_



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Re: OT: new camera

[Jaume Lahuerta]

Interesting discussion...

If Canikon comes out with their own 'Nex'-like...I am afraid that all those 
buyers will be attracted again by their powerful brands (as they are when 
jumping to entry level DSLRs).

But I agree in that a m-APSC standard would be even worst for m4/3...
(I am not sure if the NEX or Samsung mount can accommodate as many lenses as 
m4/3 with adapters, probably not)



- Mensaje original 
> De: Steven Desjardins 
> Para: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Enviado: vie,22 octubre, 2010 00:18
> Asunto: Re: OT: new camera
> 
> Pixel peepers and sensor snobs will never use four thirds.  However,
> the  images are fine and thats what matters.  The very high level pro
> cameras  won't go this way but sub $1000 small EVIL cams will do just
> fine.   Especially since even the pros like a small street camera.  The
> problem  for Sony is that not every one will buy into the lenses,
> whereas Micro 4/3  will have a number of makers and many adaptors.
> Remember that most of the  money is actually made on the P&S cameras.
> The only real problem I see  might be high noise but I bet the
> processing will take care of  that.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Jaume Lahuerta   wrote:
> iso>
> >
> >> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:36 AM,  Godfrey DiGiorgi 
> >>wrote:>  > I  pulled the trigger and bought a new camera today. Sorry, it 
>isn't  a
> >>Pentax.
> >
> >> >
> >> > I usually don't  buy anything new right out of the gate.  Particularly
> >> > pro-class  cameras ... I usually wait until they get well  into the
> >> >  market, until the issues and workarounds are known, until the   prices
> >> > drop a little bit. I usually wait until my image  processing tools  can
> >> > handle their raw files.
> >>  >
> >> > The Olympus E-5 manual is in  front of me. The battery is  charged, the
> >> > 50 Macro is on the body, a card  is in the  slot.
> >> >
> >> > I'd put in an order for one yesterday on  Amazon  but their vendors had
> >> > already sold out the first  shipment. No biggie,  I'm patient. Today,
> >> > the local store  called and said, "We have one for  you." I went up to
> >> > see it,  dickered a little on the price (sales tax  here would be almost
> >> >  $160), we came to an agreement discounting the  price, and I took it
> >>  > home.
> >> >
> >> > First very raw impression: I  did  the Right Thing. Since I'm fully
> >> > setup with all the FourThirds   pro-grade lenses, flash and accessories
> >> > I need, it only made  sense to  keep going and get a current pro-grade
> >> > body. I'd  planned to buy an E-3  when the E-5 came out, take advantage
> >> > of  the usual dip in prices. But  when I read the spec, the E-5 had all
> >>  > the right improvements for my  needs. It feels great in my hands,  I
> >> > like the control layout and menus,  the viewfinder is superb.  It's very
> >> > responsive, and pretty darn quiet in  operation. The  rest ... well, I'm
> >> > only a few pages into the manual as  yet.  There's a lot in here.
> >> >
> >
> > Congratulations  Godfrey.
> >
> > However, I have some doubts about the 4/3 - m4/3  systems:
> >
> > For me 4/3 was about compactness: 'hey, forget those  dinosaurs tied to the 
>film
> > era...'.
> > But I have just checked and  the K-5 is smaller and lighter than the E-5...
> >
> > Maybe for this  reason everybody assumes that the E-5 will be the last 4/3 
>camera
> > and  the future of this format is in the flourishing m4/3 system (and  
>probably
> > the next 'pro' body will be in some sort of  m4/3).
> >
> > But also, looking at the last products from Samsung and  Sony, I am not 
> > also 
>sure
> > about the size advantage of m4/3 again.
> >  And, since IQ will be always inferior at 4/3 land (as FF fanboys like to  
>say
> > when bashing APS-C)...waht is the sustainable advantage of m4/3 over  Sony 
>Nex
> > cameras, for instance?
> >
> > Regards,
> >  Jaume
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss  Mail List
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> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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>follow the  directions.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Desjardins
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

I don't believe that what we now call FF (24x36) will eventually take
over.  I certainly think the DX format will continue to flourish.  The
vast majority of the world's sensors are, after all, much smaller than
any of these.

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Jaume Lahuerta  wrote:
> Interesting discussion...
>
> If Canikon comes out with their own 'Nex'-like...I am afraid that all those
> buyers will be attracted again by their powerful brands (as they are when
> jumping to entry level DSLRs).
>
> But I agree in that a m-APSC standard would be even worst for m4/3...
> (I am not sure if the NEX or Samsung mount can accommodate as many lenses as
> m4/3 with adapters, probably not)
>
>
>
> - Mensaje original 
>> De: Steven Desjardins 
>> Para: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>> Enviado: vie,22 octubre, 2010 00:18
>> Asunto: Re: OT: new camera
>>
>> Pixel peepers and sensor snobs will never use four thirds.  However,
>> the  images are fine and thats what matters.  The very high level pro
>> cameras  won't go this way but sub $1000 small EVIL cams will do just
>> fine.   Especially since even the pros like a small street camera.  The
>> problem  for Sony is that not every one will buy into the lenses,
>> whereas Micro 4/3  will have a number of makers and many adaptors.
>> Remember that most of the  money is actually made on the P&S cameras.
>> The only real problem I see  might be high noise but I bet the
>> processing will take care of  that.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Jaume Lahuerta   wrote:
>> iso>
>> >
>> >> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:36 AM,  Godfrey DiGiorgi 
>> >>wrote:>  > I  pulled the trigger and bought a new camera today. Sorry, it
>>isn't  a
>> >>Pentax.
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I usually don't  buy anything new right out of the gate.  Particularly
>> >> > pro-class  cameras ... I usually wait until they get well  into the
>> >> >  market, until the issues and workarounds are known, until the   prices
>> >> > drop a little bit. I usually wait until my image  processing tools  can
>> >> > handle their raw files.
>> >>  >
>> >> > The Olympus E-5 manual is in  front of me. The battery is  charged, the
>> >> > 50 Macro is on the body, a card  is in the  slot.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd put in an order for one yesterday on  Amazon  but their vendors had
>> >> > already sold out the first  shipment. No biggie,  I'm patient. Today,
>> >> > the local store  called and said, "We have one for  you." I went up to
>> >> > see it,  dickered a little on the price (sales tax  here would be almost
>> >> >  $160), we came to an agreement discounting the  price, and I took it
>> >>  > home.
>> >> >
>> >> > First very raw impression: I  did  the Right Thing. Since I'm fully
>> >> > setup with all the FourThirds   pro-grade lenses, flash and accessories
>> >> > I need, it only made  sense to  keep going and get a current pro-grade
>> >> > body. I'd  planned to buy an E-3  when the E-5 came out, take advantage
>> >> > of  the usual dip in prices. But  when I read the spec, the E-5 had all
>> >>  > the right improvements for my  needs. It feels great in my hands,  I
>> >> > like the control layout and menus,  the viewfinder is superb.  It's very
>> >> > responsive, and pretty darn quiet in  operation. The  rest ... well, I'm
>> >> > only a few pages into the manual as  yet.  There's a lot in here.
>> >> >
>> >
>> > Congratulations  Godfrey.
>> >
>> > However, I have some doubts about the 4/3 - m4/3  systems:
>> >
>> > For me 4/3 was about compactness: 'hey, forget those  dinosaurs tied to the
>>film
>> > era...'.
>> > But I have just checked and  the K-5 is smaller and lighter than the E-5...
>> >
>> > Maybe for this  reason everybody assumes that the E-5 will be the last 4/3
>>camera
>> > and  the future of this format is in the flourishing m4/3 system (and
>>probably
>> > the next 'pro' body will be in some sort of  m4/3).
>> >
>> > But also, looking at the last products from Samsung and  Sony, I am not 
>> > also
>>sure
>> > about the size advantage of m4/3 again.
>> >  And, since IQ will be always inferior at 4/3 land (as 

Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Debating the viability of FourThirds format on the PDML list seems
like such an utter waste of time and energy I can't get into it.
Suffice it to say:

- The equipment exists.
- I have the right selection of lenses for it.
- It produces the quality of images that I want/need.
- I have it.

Whether the E-5 is the ultimate or last or whatever is irrelevant. I'm
not interested in "corporate futures", I'm interested in making
photographs. This was the best thing for me, now. I also considered a
Nikon D700 ... I like Nikon lenses and Nikon bodies since the D300
have been quite impressive ... but that would have cost me $700 more
plus the lenses I would need for it. This was not inexpensive, but
it's a pro-grade tool that I'll be using, and earning money with, for
several years.

What I'm seeing as camera performance is looking good. I don't really
want to get into formal testing ... waste of time ... but comparing
the test JPEGs against my library of images I'm seeing about a 3 stop
gain in sensitivity and a nice increment more acutance with the same
lenses compared to my other 12 Mpixel body.

When I say, "The body feels great in my hands", I mean it's a camera
that with very few minor configuration changes has already begun to
disappear. The controls are in the right places, they fall under my
fingers correctly, and it has enough configuration options that they
now work exactly the way I expect. I want my camera to disappear so I
can concentrate on making photographs, that's what feels great. It is
a tool, and there is great subtlety in the tool.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Matthew Hunt]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:

> When I say, "The body feels great in my hands", I mean it's a camera

Mark!, with a hat-tip to Gmail's keen judgment in word-wrapping.

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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

A test snap of a friend ... testing ISO 3200

Olympus E-5, Summilux-D 25mm f/1.4 ASPH
ISO 3200 @ f/4 @ 1/40 second.

(web size, 925 pixels tall, 100K)
http://homepage.mac.com/godders/PA210099s.jpg

(original out of the camera JPEG, full size, 6.2 Mbytes)
http://homepage.mac.com/godders/PA210099.JPG

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  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/22/2010 4:01 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

Debating the viability of FourThirds format on the PDML list seems
like such an utter waste of time and energy I can't get into it.
Suffice it to say:

- The equipment exists.
- I have the right selection of lenses for it.
- It produces the quality of images that I want/need.
- I have it.


Indeed, no discussion is necessary here...

Boris

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Re: OT: new camera

[William Robb]

--
From: "Boris Liberman"
Subject: Re: OT: new camera


On 10/22/2010 4:01 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

Debating the viability of FourThirds format on the PDML list seems
like such an utter waste of time and energy I can't get into it.
Suffice it to say:

- The equipment exists.
- I have the right selection of lenses for it.
- It produces the quality of images that I want/need.
- I have it.


Indeed, no discussion is necessary here...


But godders will discuss it in his typically dismissive of anyone elses 
needs fashion.

I need to fix my filters.



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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 6:19 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "Boris Liberman"
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
>
>> On 10/22/2010 4:01 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>>
>>> Debating the viability of FourThirds format on the PDML list seems
>>> like such an utter waste of time and energy I can't get into it.
>>> Suffice it to say:
>>>
>>> - The equipment exists.
>>> - I have the right selection of lenses for it.
>>> - It produces the quality of images that I want/need.
>>> - I have it.
>>
>> Indeed, no discussion is necessary here...
>
> But godders will discuss it in his typically dismissive of anyone elses
> needs fashion.
> I need to fix my filters.
>
>
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Miserere]

On 21 October 2010 18:43, Jaume Lahuerta  wrote:
> Interesting discussion...
>
> If Canikon comes out with their own 'Nex'-like...I am afraid that all those
> buyers will be attracted again by their powerful brands (as they are when
> jumping to entry level DSLRs).
>
> But I agree in that a m-APSC standard would be even worst for m4/3...
> (I am not sure if the NEX or Samsung mount can accommodate as many lenses as
> m4/3 with adapters, probably not)

I don't know how the 3rd party adaptor market is going for the Sony
NEX, but Samsung shot themselves in the foot when they designed the NX
mount to not accept Leica lenses; I'm convinced this is a large part
of the reason why the NX10 hasn't been more popular. The Sony NEX is a
different kind of camera that doesn't appeal to those photographers
who like buttons and hardware.

I believe that the first brand to bring out an APS-C mirrorless camera
like the Samsung NX10, but with the capability to take Leica M lenses
via an adapter, will steal the market and rule the World with the one
(focus) ring.

As for Godfrey's recent purchase, Olympus certainly understand one
thing that Pentax (or Canikon, 60D excepted) don't: Advanced
photographers like swivel screens too. I'd love for the K-5 to have a
swivel screen!

Godfrey, do you plan on shooting JPEGs with the E-5? Olympus really
have that going for them, their cameras produce gorgeous JPEGs.

Cheers,


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Re: OT: new camera

[Jaume Lahuerta]

- Mensaje original 
> De: Boris Liberman 
> Para: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Enviado: vie,22 octubre, 2010 14:48
> Asunto: Re: OT: new camera
> 
> On 10/22/2010 4:01 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> > Debating the viability of  FourThirds format on the PDML list seems
> > like such an utter waste of  time and energy I can't get into it.
> > Suffice it to say:
> >
> >  - The equipment exists.
> > - I have the right selection of lenses for  it.
> > - It produces the quality of images that I want/need.
> > - I  have it.
> 
> Indeed, no discussion is necessary  here...
> 

I like to follow the news, developments and trends of the the automotive 
industry, even though I am quite satisfied with my current car.
The same happens with the camera equipment industry and I consider it as a 
parallel hobby to photography (understood as taking and enjoying pictures).

Not interested on this parallel hobby? Fine...just ignore it as I do with 
cormorants, cats and the like... ;-)



  

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Re: OT: new camera

[frank theriault]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.

MARK!!

cheers,
frank


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Re: OT: new camera

[William Robb]

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From: "frank theriault"
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  
wrote:

I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.


MARK!!


Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
Too bad it is, apparently, not true.

William Robb 



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Re: OT: new camera

[Mark Roberts]

frank theriault wrote:

>On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>> I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.
>
>MARK!!

Sorry. I won't be able to include this quotation because I didn't read
your message because I'm ignoring you.
;-)


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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Well, with that one, I'm out of here. It's been fun, guys, until now.

Jeffery

On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:21 AM, William Robb wrote:
> 
> Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
> Too bad it is, apparently, not true.
> 
> William Robb 
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Miserere  wrote:
> As for Godfrey's recent purchase, Olympus certainly understand one
> thing that Pentax (or Canikon, 60D excepted) don't: Advanced
> photographers like swivel screens too. I'd love for the K-5 to have a
> swivel screen!

Yes, the articulated LCD (and some of the more subtle capabilities of
the E-5 Live View...!) is very very useful.

> Godfrey, do you plan on shooting JPEGs with the E-5? Olympus really
> have that going for them, their cameras produce gorgeous JPEGs.

My workflow is primarily raw capture into Lightroom, but for some of
the work I am negotiating having the quality of the Olympus in-camera
JPEG engine and capturing raw+JPEG will be a plus. That was a factor
in the decision to buy the E-5.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:21 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>>> I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.
>>
>> MARK!!
>
> Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
> Too bad it is, apparently, not true.

I see your filters aren't doing a very good job yet. :-)

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Miserere]

On 22 October 2010 11:46, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 8:21 AM, William Robb  wrote:
 I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.
>>>
>>> MARK!!
>>
>> Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
>> Too bad it is, apparently, not true.
>
> I see your filters aren't doing a very good job yet. :-)

He probably needs to use Hoya's Super HMC filters, which seems
appropriate for a Pentax forum.


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Re: OT: new camera

[Mark Roberts]

Miserere wrote:

>He probably needs to use Hoya's Super HMC filters, which seems
>appropriate for a Pentax forum.

Hey, that's on topic!

And it raises a fascinating (and real) possibility: For as long as I
can remember people have been complaining about Hoya's HMC filters;
not their effectiveness but rather how difficult they are to clean.
But now that Hoya owns Pentax they ought to be able to use Pentax SMC
on their filters. (I have a couple of Pentax SMC UV filters and on the
rare occasions when I use a UV filters, they perform superbly (in
terms of flare-resistance and "easy-to-cleaniness").

Someone needs to grab Ned Bunnell's ear and get this idea over to
Japan.

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Re: OT: new camera

[Miserere]

On 22 October 2010 12:41, Mark Roberts  wrote:
>
> Miserere wrote:
>
> >He probably needs to use Hoya's Super HMC filters, which seems
> >appropriate for a Pentax forum.
>
> Hey, that's on topic!

I'm sorry, I promise it won't happen again.

> And it raises a fascinating (and real) possibility: For as long as I
> can remember people have been complaining about Hoya's HMC filters;
> not their effectiveness but rather how difficult they are to clean.
> But now that Hoya owns Pentax they ought to be able to use Pentax SMC
> on their filters. (I have a couple of Pentax SMC UV filters and on the
> rare occasions when I use a UV filters, they perform superbly (in
> terms of flare-resistance and "easy-to-cleaniness").
>
> Someone needs to grab Ned Bunnell's ear and get this idea over to
> Japan.

Or maybe Hoya can make SMC filters and rebadge them as "Pentax".

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Re: OT: new camera

[Walter Gilbert]

   So, it's not just me!

I inherited a Hoya skylight filter on a second-hand lens and have 
noticed that it's hell to clean.  I thought maybe it'd been damaged or 
had gotten some kind of residue on it, but never noticed any effect on 
my images.  Still, whenever I've spotted a smudge on it and tried to 
clean it, it's always so stubborn that I'm afraid I'll damage it with 
all the "scrubbing", as it were.


In that case, I agree.  SMC coating would be nice.

-- Walt

On 10/22/2010 11:41 AM, Mark Roberts wrote:

For as long as I
can remember people have been complaining about Hoya's HMC filters;
not their effectiveness but rather how difficult they are to clean.



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Re: OT: new camera

[DagT]

My main problem with FourThirds is that they use a smaller sensor, 
theoretically giving up at least one step in the ISO range, but for what?
The dslr cameras are larger than the Pentax cameras and they have almost no 
compact lenses so I´m wondering: why the reduced sensor size?

I always liked Olympus, but when they haven´t gained anything in the dslr range 
I suspect that they have been heading toward the microFourThirds all the time. 
The dslr are just an intermediate period. Nice to have when it is there, but 
not something you choose if you plan to use years buying new lenses and cameras 
slowly.

DagT
http://www.thrane.name



Den 22. okt. 2010 kl. 04.01 skrev Godfrey DiGiorgi:

> Debating the viability of FourThirds format on the PDML list seems
> like such an utter waste of time and energy I can't get into it.
> Suffice it to say:
> 
> - The equipment exists.
> - I have the right selection of lenses for it.
> - It produces the quality of images that I want/need.
> - I have it.
> 
> Whether the E-5 is the ultimate or last or whatever is irrelevant. I'm
> not interested in "corporate futures", I'm interested in making
> photographs. This was the best thing for me, now. I also considered a
> Nikon D700 ... I like Nikon lenses and Nikon bodies since the D300
> have been quite impressive ... but that would have cost me $700 more
> plus the lenses I would need for it. This was not inexpensive, but
> it's a pro-grade tool that I'll be using, and earning money with, for
> several years.
> 
> What I'm seeing as camera performance is looking good. I don't really
> want to get into formal testing ... waste of time ... but comparing
> the test JPEGs against my library of images I'm seeing about a 3 stop
> gain in sensitivity and a nice increment more acutance with the same
> lenses compared to my other 12 Mpixel body.
> 
> When I say, "The body feels great in my hands", I mean it's a camera
> that with very few minor configuration changes has already begun to
> disappear. The controls are in the right places, they fall under my
> fingers correctly, and it has enough configuration options that they
> now work exactly the way I expect. I want my camera to disappear so I
> can concentrate on making photographs, that's what feels great. It is
> a tool, and there is great subtlety in the tool.
> 
> -- 
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, DagT  wrote:
> My main problem with FourThirds is that they use a smaller sensor, 
> theoretically giving up at least one step in the ISO range, but for what?
> The dslr cameras are larger than the Pentax cameras and they have almost no 
> compact lenses so I´m wondering: why the reduced sensor size?
>
> I always liked Olympus, but when they haven´t gained anything in the dslr 
> range I suspect that they have been heading toward the microFourThirds all 
> the time. The dslr are just an intermediate period. Nice to have when it is 
> there, but not something you choose if you plan to use years buying new 
> lenses and cameras slowly.

All I can say here is that I think it remarkable that the Olympus E-1
... first released in 2003, sold until 2007 ... still produces
amazingly competitive quality in its photographs today. I still shoot
with it, I bought another new lens for it just this year, and I don't
at this time intend to sell it anytime soon. Photos submitted and
accepted into the last two juried exhibitions I entered were made with
the E-1 and obtained acknowledgement.

The FourThirds SLR lens line is very complete, the pro-grade and
hyper-pro-grade series are as good as you can get, any many people
will be shooting with the E-1, E-3, E-30, E-5 and other bodies for
years to come. The Panasonic L1 was/is another tour de force in camera
design. Despite any reservations with the sensor size at the beginning
of my time using these cameras, their quality and the image quality
they produce evaporated such concerns very quickly.

"... Equipment often gets in the way of Photography. ..."

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Miserere]

On 22 October 2010 15:39, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>
> The Panasonic L1 was/is another tour de force in camera
> design. Despite any reservations with the sensor size at the beginning
> of my time using these cameras, their quality and the image quality
> they produce evaporated such concerns very quickly.

I really like the body design of the L1 (and the live-view and smart
flash design). It's a shame you and I might be the only ones who did
because they quickly ditched the Porro prism and moved to a me-too
pentaprism design. What a shame...

I wasn't around Oly and Panny at the time, so I don't know why they
moved away from this design. Would love to hear from you if you're
familiar with the circumstances.


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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Miserere  wrote:
> I really like the body design of the L1 (and the live-view and smart
> flash design). It's a shame you and I might be the only ones who did
> because they quickly ditched the Porro prism and moved to a me-too
> pentaprism design. What a shame...
>
> I wasn't around Oly and Panny at the time, so I don't know why they
> moved away from this design. Would love to hear from you if you're
> familiar with the circumstances.

I can only conjecture from the outside, but I suspect it was
combination of several things:

- I don't think Panasonic ever expected to sell a lot of the L1
cameras. That particular camera I think was a cannon shot  across the
water saying, "We are going to play here!" ... It was designed in
tight collaboration with Leica on layout, functions and style pretty
obviously. The Leica version, at a $500-600 premium price, was on the
same order. Leica was more "testing the waters" for a FourThirds SLR
involvement, I think. The viewfinder/shutter sub-assembly is a shared
component with the Olympus E-330 ...

- For Olympus part, I think they felt the sales of the side-winder
bodies (the E-300 and E-330) were both disappointing, irrespective of
the technical merits of the design, and that was largely because the
porro-finder light pipe is simply less efficient than a pentamirror
and especially than a large pentaprism leading to poorer viewfinder
brightness.

- Both companies follow on products used more conventional
pentamirror/pentaprism (L10 - pentamirror, E-500 - pentaprism) and had
conventional SLR shapes that most buyers found more appealing. By the
time the L10 was released, Panasonic was already deep into the
development of the Lumix G cameras and had pretty much stopped
development on SLR technology, where Olympus with a larger footprint
into SLRs and a big user base, had a more complex game to work through
with pro to consumer grade customers, many of whom at the high end
already had big investiture into their lenses and bodies.

Business and technology often interact in unpredictable ways. The
LC-1/L1 design is brilliant, the resulting camera has been a delight,
but I think the E-5's viewfinder and other features go so far beyond
it that I'm retiring mine now. The E-1, for sake of shared batteries,
cables, cards, accessories, control layout, etc, is a better backup to
the E-5 than the L1.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[DagT]

Den 22. okt. 2010 kl. 21.39 skrev Godfrey DiGiorgi:

> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, DagT  wrote:
>> My main problem with FourThirds is that they use a smaller sensor, 
>> theoretically giving up at least one step in the ISO range, but for what?
>> The dslr cameras are larger than the Pentax cameras and they have almost no 
>> compact lenses so I´m wondering: why the reduced sensor size?
>> 
>> I always liked Olympus, but when they haven´t gained anything in the dslr 
>> range I suspect that they have been heading toward the microFourThirds all 
>> the time. The dslr are just an intermediate period. Nice to have when it is 
>> there, but not something you choose if you plan to use years buying new 
>> lenses and cameras slowly.
> 
> All I can say here is that I think it remarkable that the Olympus E-1
> ... first released in 2003, sold until 2007 ... still produces
> amazingly competitive quality in its photographs today. I still shoot
> with it, I bought another new lens for it just this year, and I don't
> at this time intend to sell it anytime soon. Photos submitted and
> accepted into the last two juried exhibitions I entered were made with
> the E-1 and obtained acknowledgement.

Well, that´s great but it´s not much of a proof either. In the right 
circumstances any 6MP picture with the right lens would be acceptable if the 
content of the picture was good enough. You know, most of Cartier-Bressons 
pictures are not as sharp as a 6MP picture but they are still accepted at 
exhibitions. I think the fantastic gypsy pictures of Koudelka would be good 
enough at 3MP

> The FourThirds SLR lens line is very complete, the pro-grade and
> hyper-pro-grade series are as good as you can get, any many people
> will be shooting with the E-1, E-3, E-30, E-5 and other bodies for
> years to come. The Panasonic L1 was/is another tour de force in camera
> design. Despite any reservations with the sensor size at the beginning
> of my time using these cameras, their quality and the image quality
> they produce evaporated such concerns very quickly.

I admit that ISO is not a big issue when there is hardly light enough to see 
the subject.

> "... Equipment often gets in the way of Photography. ..."

So true. That´s why I concentrate on size, convenience and non-intrusive 
equipment and how it affects the subject rather than pixels, noise and 
impressive features. That´s why I´m a little disappointed by the 
FourThirds-system.

DagT
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Re: OT: new camera

[eckinator]

2010/10/22 William Robb :
>
> Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
> Too bad it is, apparently, not true.

PLONK

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Re: OT: new camera

[Miserere]

On 22 October 2010 17:46, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>
> I can only conjecture from the outside, but I suspect it was
> combination of several things:
>
> - I don't think Panasonic ever expected to sell a lot of the L1
> cameras. That particular camera I think was a cannon shot  across the
> water saying, "We are going to play here!" ... It was designed in
> tight collaboration with Leica on layout, functions and style pretty
> obviously. The Leica version, at a $500-600 premium price, was on the
> same order. Leica was more "testing the waters" for a FourThirds SLR
> involvement, I think. The viewfinder/shutter sub-assembly is a shared
> component with the Olympus E-330 ...
>
> - For Olympus part, I think they felt the sales of the side-winder
> bodies (the E-300 and E-330) were both disappointing, irrespective of
> the technical merits of the design, and that was largely because the
> porro-finder light pipe is simply less efficient than a pentamirror
> and especially than a large pentaprism leading to poorer viewfinder
> brightness.
>
> - Both companies follow on products used more conventional
> pentamirror/pentaprism (L10 - pentamirror, E-500 - pentaprism) and had
> conventional SLR shapes that most buyers found more appealing. By the
> time the L10 was released, Panasonic was already deep into the
> development of the Lumix G cameras and had pretty much stopped
> development on SLR technology, where Olympus with a larger footprint
> into SLRs and a big user base, had a more complex game to work through
> with pro to consumer grade customers, many of whom at the high end
> already had big investiture into their lenses and bodies.
>
> Business and technology often interact in unpredictable ways. The
> LC-1/L1 design is brilliant, the resulting camera has been a delight,
> but I think the E-5's viewfinder and other features go so far beyond
> it that I'm retiring mine now. The E-1, for sake of shared batteries,
> cables, cards, accessories, control layout, etc, is a better backup to
> the E-5 than the L1.
>
> --
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

Thanks for that, Godfrey. I'd read about the sucky viewfinder on the
Porro cameras but I've never looked through one so I don't know how
bad it is. I imagine Leica decided to concentrate its efforts on
getting a digital M out to market, which makes more sense than a 4/3
camera. It is amusing that they managed to make their L1 look so much
like a rangefinder  :-)


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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:52 PM, DagT  wrote:
>> "... Equipment often gets in the way of Photography. ..."
>
> So true. That´s why I concentrate on size, convenience and non-intrusive 
> equipment and how it affects the subject rather than pixels, noise and 
> impressive features. That´s why I´m a little disappointed by the 
> FourThirds-system.

Your statement here is a little baffling. Olympus makes several
different SLR models and three lines of lenses. The E-1, E-3 and E-5
are the professional bodies, which are built very robustly and are
large as a result. The pro and hyper-pro lenses are fast,
weather-sealed and large/heavy as a result.

The E-4xx series bodies are tiny, the E-5xx series and E-6xx series
about the same size as the Pentax K7 from what I've seen of both. The
Olympus consumer grade lenses are quite compact and still good
quality.

And then there's the Pen Micro-FourThirds line if you want very
compact and unobtrusive Olympus cameras. Same size sensor, much
smaller bodies and smaller lenses.

I don't see the problem. Pick the camera that fits your desires. They
all produce excellent quality images. Why complain about Olympus
because the top of the line professional camera and lenses isn't also
ultra-compact ... that doesn't make sense, they have other products
for those that want ultra-compactness.
-- 
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Re: OT: new camera

[DagT]

Den 23. okt. 2010 kl. 00.32 skrev Godfrey DiGiorgi:

> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:52 PM, DagT  wrote:
>>> "... Equipment often gets in the way of Photography. ..."
>> 
>> So true. That´s why I concentrate on size, convenience and non-intrusive 
>> equipment and how it affects the subject rather than pixels, noise and 
>> impressive features. That´s why I´m a little disappointed by the 
>> FourThirds-system.
> 
> Your statement here is a little baffling. Olympus makes several
> different SLR models and three lines of lenses. The E-1, E-3 and E-5
> are the professional bodies, which are built very robustly and are
> large as a result. The pro and hyper-pro lenses are fast,
> weather-sealed and large/heavy as a result.

Listening to them you would expect the pro cameras to be smaller than the 
Pentax bodies, but they are not. Why?
In addition they haven´t even tried to make compact lenses to their series 
comparable to the DA Limiteds.

 I have been partially Pro, but I just don´t get the "pro argument". Who are 
these pros? Sports, features, studio or others? I have friends doing "pro" work 
with Canon 450D or 8"x10" cameras so I cannot understand this "pro" issue.

> The E-4xx series bodies are tiny, the E-5xx series and E-6xx series
> about the same size as the Pentax K7 from what I've seen of both. The
> Olympus consumer grade lenses are quite compact and still good
> quality.

But not the same size.

> And then there's the Pen Micro-FourThirds line if you want very
> compact and unobtrusive Olympus cameras. Same size sensor, much
> smaller bodies and smaller lenses.

Sure, when the EVF are good enough.

> I don't see the problem. Pick the camera that fits your desires. They
> all produce excellent quality images. Why complain about Olympus
> because the top of the line professional camera and lenses isn't also
> ultra-compact ... that doesn't make sense, they have other products
> for those that want ultra-compactness.

That´s the point! Why bother? If you assume that Pentax users have considered 
these things already there is no need to remind them of it. If there is one 
thing Pentaxians know it is that they are outsiders.

Personally I like being an outsider. I would hate dragging a large camera an 
lens, or an EVF camera with smaller lens, on my travels. I just hate going into 
a shop, a church or anything else first being noticed for the camera and then 
asked what I want. It is my way of working, I hate being noticed. It is as 
simple as that and the Olympus dslrs is not an option anymore.

It is not a problem for me, not a problem for you but possibly it indicates a 
niche for Pentax  because nobody else can give me the same options .-)

DagT
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Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 22, 2010, at 8:21 AM, William Robb wrote:

> 
> --
> From: "frank theriault"
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  
>> wrote:
>>> I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.
>> 
>> MARK!!
> 
> Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
> Too bad it is, apparently, not true.

Did you slip on soap in the shower and land on a bottle of shampoo? Because you 
seem to have something large and unpleasant wedged firmly up your asshole. I 
suggest that you own Godfrey and the rest of this list a sincere apology.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:04 PM, DagT  wrote:
> Listening to them you would expect the pro cameras to be smaller than the 
> Pentax bodies, but they are not. Why?

I guess that's the fundamental difference between us. I heard
different things when I listened to them.

> In addition they haven´t even tried to make compact lenses to their series 
> comparable to the DA Limiteds.

That's not Olympus' thing. Although the 25/2.8 is quite small and
light, and a darn good performer for $230. The 35/3.5 Macro is a
superb lens, even better than the 25/2.8, and very small and light too
with 1:1 macro capability ... mine cost me $185 new.

>  I have been partially Pro, but I just don´t get the "pro argument". Who are 
> these pros? Sports, features, studio or others? I have friends doing "pro" 
> work with Canon 450D or 8"x10" cameras so I cannot understand this "pro" 
> issue.

A pro grade camera has nothing to do with a person being a
professional photographer.

A pro grade camera is a camera built to different (higher) standards
of durability and robustness. It's designed to be able to take a
beating in adverse conditions and extended heavy use. Pentax has never
really made pro-grade SLRs in 35mm or digital, although their top of
the line comes close. Nikon's F line and D1, D2, D3 bodies are their
pro bodies, Canon's EOS-1v, 1d, etc are their pro bodies.

A professional photographer is someone who makes their income from
photography. They can use any camera they want as long as they deliver
the goods.

> That´s the point! Why bother? ...

I didn't make an issue of it, you did. I was just celebrating with
friends that I bought a new camera. I don't give a hoot what camera
you choose to use.

Besides, Olympus owners consider themselves outsiders too. Practically
anyone not using Canon or Nikon equipment is viewed as an outside.
Don't feel so special ... there are Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Sigma,
Samsung and Fuji owners all being outsiders.

> Personally I like being an outsider. I would hate dragging a large camera an 
> lens, or an EVF camera with smaller lens, on my travels. I just hate going 
> into a shop, a church or anything else first being noticed for the camera and 
> then asked what I want. It is my way of working, I hate being noticed. It is 
> as simple as that and the Olympus dslrs is not an option anymore.

Whether you are notices or not is more a matter of how you comport
yourself than what size or type of camera you are carrying. A person
skilled in staying unobtrusive stays unobtrusive whether they have a
point and shoot or a Gatling gun in their hands.

> It is not a problem for me, not a problem for you but possibly it indicates a 
> niche for Pentax  because nobody else can give me the same options .-)

I'm glad you're happy with the gear you chose. I'm quite happy with
the gear I chose. ;-)

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 1:04 AM, DagT wrote:

Personally I like being an outsider. I would hate dragging a large
camera an lens, or an EVF camera with smaller lens, on my travels. I
just hate going into a shop, a church or anything else first being
noticed for the camera and then asked what I want. It is my way of
working, I hate being noticed. It is as simple as that and the
Olympus dslrs is not an option anymore.

DagT


Funny that you conclude that, Dag. With m43 cameras you will be 
considered a compact camera user while retaining all the benefits of the 
large sensor camera.


I think I told this story few times already on the list. Back in 2006 
Jostein and I visited Olympic Games museum in Oslo. He was carrying 
*istD with the grip with FA* 28-70. I was carrying *istD without the 
grip with FAJ 18-35. It was evident he was Norwegian - he spoke the 
language. I was obviously a tourist speaking Russian with my wife and 
daughter and probably looking funny as well. So, Jostein was kindly 
asked to leave his gear outside as a professional photography was not 
allowed in the museum. I wasn't told a single word. Well, I should also 
mention that Jostein is taller and broader than me...


Boris

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 5:01 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

A pro grade camera has nothing to do with a person being a
professional photographer.


Indeed. I agree with you completely, Godfrey.


A pro grade camera is a camera built to different (higher) standards
of durability and robustness. It's designed to be able to take a
beating in adverse conditions and extended heavy use. Pentax has never
really made pro-grade SLRs in 35mm or digital, although their top of
the line comes close. Nikon's F line and D1, D2, D3 bodies are their
pro bodies, Canon's EOS-1v, 1d, etc are their pro bodies.


Godfrey, for your kind of work - is it really necessary for your gear to 
be able to take a beating??? I am not implying a defense of Pentax or 
whatever. I am asking because I thought that you were not doing any kind 
of photography that can be potentially harmful to your equipment...


Boris

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Re: OT: new camera

[frank theriault]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> frank theriault wrote:
>
>>On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>>> I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.
>>
>>MARK!!
>
> Sorry. I won't be able to include this quotation because I didn't read
> your message because I'm ignoring you.
> ;-)

You're ignoring me or Godfrey?

Or both?

;-)

cheers,
frank

-- 
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Re: OT: new camera

[frank theriault]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> Well, with that one, I'm out of here. It's been fun, guys, until now.

These things flare up for a bit and go away.  I hope you stick around
- your contributions have been valuable.

cheers,
frank

-- 
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Re: OT: new camera

[frank theriault]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:21 AM, William Robb  wrote:

> Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
> Too bad it is, apparently, not true.

Attack his words and ideas?

Fine.

Attack his sexual preference?

Completely out of line.

IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.

cheers,
frank





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Re: OT: new camera

[Mark Roberts]

frank theriault wrote:

>On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
>> frank theriault wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  
>>>wrote:
 I don't filter you, Robb. I simply ignore you.
>>>
>>>MARK!!
>>
>> Sorry. I won't be able to include this quotation because I didn't read
>> your message because I'm ignoring you.
>> ;-)
>
>You're ignoring me or Godfrey?
>
>Or both?
>
>;-)

Hmm. Can I decide later?


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Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:

>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.

I agree totally, and so do my wives.

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  Cotty


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RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

> >IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
> 
> I agree totally, and so do my wives.
> 


you wouldn't say that if you were a bigot.




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Re: OT: new camera

[Rob Studdert]

On 23 October 2010 23:55, Cotty  wrote:
> On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>
> I agree totally, and so do my wives.

They should probably just kiss and make up.

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Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

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Re: OT: new camera

[Dario Bonazza]

Cotty wrote:


On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:


IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.


I agree totally, and so do my wives.


kram... err mark!

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Re: OT: new camera

[Bob Sullivan]

AMEN

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:31 AM, frank theriault
 wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:21 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
>> Hey good one liner from the pompous twit faggot.
>> Too bad it is, apparently, not true.
>
> Attack his words and ideas?
>
> Fine.
>
> Attack his sexual preference?
>
> Completely out of line.
>
> IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>
> cheers,
> frank
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

As naive as it may sound, I bought my Olympus E-1 (my first dSLR) based on its 
(1) sturdiness [read: not a plastic body], and (2) LACK of a pop-up flash. I 
had a pz1p fpr a while, and found the pop-up flash to be annoying when I was 
just trying to grab a shot in lower light conditions and didn't have time to 
make sure that the conditions didn't warrant a pop-up flash. Having used mostly 
rangefinder cameras over the past 10 years, the new automation of dSLRs seemed 
almost intrusive.

I have since gotten more facile with dSLR settings so that the popup flash is 
less of an annoyance. I don't worry about the camera/lens being rainproof, but 
do wonder if (on a hot humid summer day) if water is condensing IN my camera as 
well as ON my camera.

Jeffery


On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:40 AM, Boris Liberman wrote:

> On 10/23/2010 5:01 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>> A pro grade camera has nothing to do with a person being a
>> professional photographer.
> 
> Indeed. I agree with you completely, Godfrey.
> 
>> A pro grade camera is a camera built to different (higher) standards
>> of durability and robustness. It's designed to be able to take a
>> beating in adverse conditions and extended heavy use. Pentax has never
>> really made pro-grade SLRs in 35mm or digital, although their top of
>> the line comes close. Nikon's F line and D1, D2, D3 bodies are their
>> pro bodies, Canon's EOS-1v, 1d, etc are their pro bodies.
> 
> Godfrey, for your kind of work - is it really necessary for your gear to be 
> able to take a beating??? I am not implying a defense of Pentax or whatever. 
> I am asking because I thought that you were not doing any kind of photography 
> that can be potentially harmful to your equipment...
> 
> Boris
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Adam Maas]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:52 PM, DagT  wrote:
>>> "... Equipment often gets in the way of Photography. ..."
>>
>> So true. That´s why I concentrate on size, convenience and non-intrusive 
>> equipment and how it affects the subject rather than pixels, noise and 
>> impressive features. That´s why I´m a little disappointed by the 
>> FourThirds-system.
>
> Your statement here is a little baffling. Olympus makes several
> different SLR models and three lines of lenses. The E-1, E-3 and E-5
> are the professional bodies, which are built very robustly and are
> large as a result. The pro and hyper-pro lenses are fast,
> weather-sealed and large/heavy as a result.
>
> The E-4xx series bodies are tiny, the E-5xx series and E-6xx series
> about the same size as the Pentax K7 from what I've seen of both. The
> Olympus consumer grade lenses are quite compact and still good
> quality.
>
> And then there's the Pen Micro-FourThirds line if you want very
> compact and unobtrusive Olympus cameras. Same size sensor, much
> smaller bodies and smaller lenses.
>
> I don't see the problem. Pick the camera that fits your desires. They
> all produce excellent quality images. Why complain about Olympus
> because the top of the line professional camera and lenses isn't also
> ultra-compact ... that doesn't make sense, they have other products
> for those that want ultra-compactness.
> --
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

Note the only DSLR's Olympus currently makes are the E-5, E-30 and
E-620 and the E-5 and E-30 are both on the large side for their class.
The E-4x0 and E-5x0 lines are discontinued, although last I'd heard
there's still a fair number of E-420/450's floating around new.

The E-450 is in fact noticeably larger than a K-x or K-r (or the Sony
A33/A55), hardly tiny. Almost all of the supposed size advantage of
the E-4x0 series is in the lack of handgrip, which reduces the depth
of the body greatly...until a lens is mounted. The E-4x0's are quite
noticeably wider than compact bodies from the other major brands and
while not terribly tall, they only have around a 0.5mm advantage over
the K-m/K-x/K-r bodies or the similar-sized Sony A33/A55, both of whom
are around 5mm less wide.

Right now if you want a compact, high-performance DSLR (One of the
supposed selling points of 4/3rds), your best choice is Pentax,
nothing else offers the sort of size/performance ratio of the K-5. The
EOS 60D and Nikon D7000 also offer more performance in less body than
the Oly's. For super-compact bodies the E-620 trails the Pentax
K-x/K-r and Sony A33/A55 in pretty much every regard (IQ, size,
performance).

Note the E-5 is also hardly a top of the line professional camera. It
is the top of Oly's line and a damned good (but overpriced) camera.
But it offers IQ and performance which trail the competitions top
consumer cameras. The build is nice, but no better than the D300s or
7D, leaving the sealing as Oly's only real-world advantage and it is
sealed only a bit better than a D300s or K-5. And the K-5 proves that
pro-level build need not come in at E-5 sizes (Frankly, the new Nikon
D7000 does as well, being almost as well built & sealed as an E-5 in a
package midway between the E-5 and K-5 in size).

If you're looking at a top of the line pro DSLR, you're looking at a
D3 or 1D series camera, not an E-5. There's a world of difference.


-Adam

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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
>> A pro grade camera is a camera built to different (higher) standards
>> of durability and robustness. It's designed to be able to take a
>> beating in adverse conditions and extended heavy use. Pentax has never
>> really made pro-grade SLRs in 35mm or digital, although their top of
>> the line comes close. Nikon's F line and D1, D2, D3 bodies are their
>> pro bodies, Canon's EOS-1v, 1d, etc are their pro bodies.
>
> Godfrey, for your kind of work - is it really necessary for your gear to be
> able to take a beating??? I am not implying a defense of Pentax or whatever.
> I am asking because I thought that you were not doing any kind of
> photography that can be potentially harmful to your equipment...

There's a difference between my personal street and fine art work ...
which is what I post on my blog and flickr, etc ... and the
photography I am doing on assignment, which I'm pushing hard to
expand. For me, what this pro-grade body nets as advantage (other than
its  improvements in image stabilization, viewfinder quality,
resolution, etc over my existing equipment, is it's responsiveness and
noise control. The last few gigs I did netted excellent photos for my
client, but I was definitely right at the edge of what I could push
the equipment to do. And there were a number of situations where I did
not obtain the shot *I* really wanted due to equipment limitations.

I needed a significant improvement in camera responsiveness and two
stops more sensitivity/dynamic range to obtain satisfactory overhead
room. This camera solves that problem with room to spare.

"... Equipment often get in the way of Photography. ..." has more than
one meaning. ;-)

-- 
Godfrey
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Rob Studdert  wrote:
> On 23 October 2010 23:55, Cotty  wrote:
>> On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>
>>>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>>
>> I agree totally, and so do my wives.
>
> They should probably just kiss and make up.

The wives or ... ??
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Re: OT: new camera

[Adam Maas]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 10:56 AM, Miserere  wrote:
> On 21 October 2010 18:43, Jaume Lahuerta  wrote:
>> Interesting discussion...
>>
>> If Canikon comes out with their own 'Nex'-like...I am afraid that all those
>> buyers will be attracted again by their powerful brands (as they are when
>> jumping to entry level DSLRs).
>>
>> But I agree in that a m-APSC standard would be even worst for m4/3...
>> (I am not sure if the NEX or Samsung mount can accommodate as many lenses as
>> m4/3 with adapters, probably not)
>
> I don't know how the 3rd party adaptor market is going for the Sony
> NEX, but Samsung shot themselves in the foot when they designed the NX
> mount to not accept Leica lenses; I'm convinced this is a large part
> of the reason why the NX10 hasn't been more popular. The Sony NEX is a
> different kind of camera that doesn't appeal to those photographers
> who like buttons and hardware.

That would be the NEX with M mount compatibility and Sony is
apparently actively supporting the adapter market. Sales seem to be
reflecting this, as all the numbers I'm seeing indicate Sony has
grabbed about half the EVIL market with Panasonic and Oly sharing the
rest with Panasonic owning the larger portion.

-Adam

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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

thank you for your opinion. ;-)

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Adam Maas  wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:52 PM, DagT  wrote:
 "... Equipment often gets in the way of Photography. ..."
>>>
>>> So true. That´s why I concentrate on size, convenience and non-intrusive 
>>> equipment and how it affects the subject rather than pixels, noise and 
>>> impressive features. That´s why I´m a little disappointed by the 
>>> FourThirds-system.
>>
>> Your statement here is a little baffling. Olympus makes several
>> different SLR models and three lines of lenses. The E-1, E-3 and E-5
>> are the professional bodies, which are built very robustly and are
>> large as a result. The pro and hyper-pro lenses are fast,
>> weather-sealed and large/heavy as a result.
>>
>> The E-4xx series bodies are tiny, the E-5xx series and E-6xx series
>> about the same size as the Pentax K7 from what I've seen of both. The
>> Olympus consumer grade lenses are quite compact and still good
>> quality.
>>
>> And then there's the Pen Micro-FourThirds line if you want very
>> compact and unobtrusive Olympus cameras. Same size sensor, much
>> smaller bodies and smaller lenses.
>>
>> I don't see the problem. Pick the camera that fits your desires. They
>> all produce excellent quality images. Why complain about Olympus
>> because the top of the line professional camera and lenses isn't also
>> ultra-compact ... that doesn't make sense, they have other products
>> for those that want ultra-compactness.
>> --
>> Godfrey
>>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>
> Note the only DSLR's Olympus currently makes are the E-5, E-30 and
> E-620 and the E-5 and E-30 are both on the large side for their class.
> The E-4x0 and E-5x0 lines are discontinued, although last I'd heard
> there's still a fair number of E-420/450's floating around new.
>
> The E-450 is in fact noticeably larger than a K-x or K-r (or the Sony
> A33/A55), hardly tiny. Almost all of the supposed size advantage of
> the E-4x0 series is in the lack of handgrip, which reduces the depth
> of the body greatly...until a lens is mounted. The E-4x0's are quite
> noticeably wider than compact bodies from the other major brands and
> while not terribly tall, they only have around a 0.5mm advantage over
> the K-m/K-x/K-r bodies or the similar-sized Sony A33/A55, both of whom
> are around 5mm less wide.
>
> Right now if you want a compact, high-performance DSLR (One of the
> supposed selling points of 4/3rds), your best choice is Pentax,
> nothing else offers the sort of size/performance ratio of the K-5. The
> EOS 60D and Nikon D7000 also offer more performance in less body than
> the Oly's. For super-compact bodies the E-620 trails the Pentax
> K-x/K-r and Sony A33/A55 in pretty much every regard (IQ, size,
> performance).
>
> Note the E-5 is also hardly a top of the line professional camera. It
> is the top of Oly's line and a damned good (but overpriced) camera.
> But it offers IQ and performance which trail the competitions top
> consumer cameras. The build is nice, but no better than the D300s or
> 7D, leaving the sealing as Oly's only real-world advantage and it is
> sealed only a bit better than a D300s or K-5. And the K-5 proves that
> pro-level build need not come in at E-5 sizes (Frankly, the new Nikon
> D7000 does as well, being almost as well built & sealed as an E-5 in a
> package midway between the E-5 and K-5 in size).
>
> If you're looking at a top of the line pro DSLR, you're looking at a
> D3 or 1D series camera, not an E-5. There's a world of difference.
>
>
> -Adam
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter lag 
is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?

The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot of 
lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time the 
shutter actually fired. 

Jeffery

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> I needed a significant improvement in camera responsiveness and two
> stops more sensitivity/dynamic range to obtain satisfactory overhead
> room. This camera solves that problem with room to spare.


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Re: OT: new camera

[Adam Maas]

Note that I do consider the E-5 to be an excellent choice for someone
who is invested in the 4/3rds system as it marries the E-3's generally
excellent body design (and the only good viewfinder in the 4/3rds
system) to the greatly improved imaging chain of the PEN's. IMHO it's
simply too little, too late to make the system a good investment for
someone looking to buy in today.

A real pity IMHO as I consider the 4/3rds system to have just about
the best selection of mid/high-end zooms available. Despite having
left the system I still miss the 14-54 f2.8-3.5 II I had, it's one of
the best zooms I've ever shot with (and I'm generally not a fan of
zooms). Unfortunately I found the lens line to be let down by the
bodies, which simply aren't delivering the performance and IQ that the
competition does, particularly if you shoot in lower light (which I
understand that you don't, unlike myself).

-Adam

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> thank you for your opinion. ;-)
>
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Adam Maas  wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  
>> wrote:
>>> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 2:52 PM, DagT  wrote:
> "... Equipment often gets in the way of Photography. ..."

 So true. That´s why I concentrate on size, convenience and non-intrusive 
 equipment and how it affects the subject rather than pixels, noise and 
 impressive features. That´s why I´m a little disappointed by the 
 FourThirds-system.
>>>
>>> Your statement here is a little baffling. Olympus makes several
>>> different SLR models and three lines of lenses. The E-1, E-3 and E-5
>>> are the professional bodies, which are built very robustly and are
>>> large as a result. The pro and hyper-pro lenses are fast,
>>> weather-sealed and large/heavy as a result.
>>>
>>> The E-4xx series bodies are tiny, the E-5xx series and E-6xx series
>>> about the same size as the Pentax K7 from what I've seen of both. The
>>> Olympus consumer grade lenses are quite compact and still good
>>> quality.
>>>
>>> And then there's the Pen Micro-FourThirds line if you want very
>>> compact and unobtrusive Olympus cameras. Same size sensor, much
>>> smaller bodies and smaller lenses.
>>>
>>> I don't see the problem. Pick the camera that fits your desires. They
>>> all produce excellent quality images. Why complain about Olympus
>>> because the top of the line professional camera and lenses isn't also
>>> ultra-compact ... that doesn't make sense, they have other products
>>> for those that want ultra-compactness.
>>> --
>>> Godfrey
>>>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>>
>> Note the only DSLR's Olympus currently makes are the E-5, E-30 and
>> E-620 and the E-5 and E-30 are both on the large side for their class.
>> The E-4x0 and E-5x0 lines are discontinued, although last I'd heard
>> there's still a fair number of E-420/450's floating around new.
>>
>> The E-450 is in fact noticeably larger than a K-x or K-r (or the Sony
>> A33/A55), hardly tiny. Almost all of the supposed size advantage of
>> the E-4x0 series is in the lack of handgrip, which reduces the depth
>> of the body greatly...until a lens is mounted. The E-4x0's are quite
>> noticeably wider than compact bodies from the other major brands and
>> while not terribly tall, they only have around a 0.5mm advantage over
>> the K-m/K-x/K-r bodies or the similar-sized Sony A33/A55, both of whom
>> are around 5mm less wide.
>>
>> Right now if you want a compact, high-performance DSLR (One of the
>> supposed selling points of 4/3rds), your best choice is Pentax,
>> nothing else offers the sort of size/performance ratio of the K-5. The
>> EOS 60D and Nikon D7000 also offer more performance in less body than
>> the Oly's. For super-compact bodies the E-620 trails the Pentax
>> K-x/K-r and Sony A33/A55 in pretty much every regard (IQ, size,
>> performance).
>>
>> Note the E-5 is also hardly a top of the line professional camera. It
>> is the top of Oly's line and a damned good (but overpriced) camera.
>> But it offers IQ and performance which trail the competitions top
>> consumer cameras. The build is nice, but no better than the D300s or
>> 7D, leaving the sealing as Oly's only real-world advantage and it is
>> sealed only a bit better than a D300s or K-5. And the K-5 proves that
>> pro-level build need not come in at E-5 sizes (Frankly, the new Nikon
>> D7000 does as well, being almost as well built & sealed as an E-5 in a
>> package midway between the E-5 and K-5 in size).
>>
>> If you're looking at a top of the line pro DSLR, you're looking at a
>> D3 or 1D series camera, not an E-5. There's a world of difference.
>>
>>
>> -Adam
>>
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>
>
>
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>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>
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> htt

Re: OT: new camera

[Adam Maas]

I'd have to ask what mode are you in, my experience with the K-x is it
does not have significant shutter lag except in LV mode (where the lag
is simply awful, LV is almost unusable on the K-x in my experience).
It does however have an AF system which struggles in low-light so if
you're shooting in AF-S your problem is most likely AF lag rather than
shutter lag since the camera is in Focus Priority mode.

One of the major reasons why I chose to sell off my Pentax gear and go
Sony was the issue of focus in low-light where I do much of my
shooting. The K-x had two issues in really low light, the AF is
useless in such situations and the viewfinder isn't quite up to
accurate focus in low light at f1.4-2. The G1, which I owned for about
a year and a half, had the opposite problem, focus was no issue in low
light but I ran out of shutter speed (the E-30 had the same problem as
the G1, a functional ISO limit around ISO 2500). Thankfully the A33
solves both problems as it's as easy to focus as the G1 in low light,
has much better AF in low light than the K-x (a real surprise, I
wasn't expecting much from the A33's AF system) and has nearly as good
high ISO performance as the K-x, allowing me to get reasonably high
shutter speeds in very low light.

Note the K-x significantly outperforms any 4/3rds camera in terms of
Dynamic Range and Sensitivity (it remains just about the best I've
seen in APS-C for both DR and high ISO performance). The E-5 should be
superior in pretty much every other regard except size.

-Adam

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter 
> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
>
> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot 
> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time 
> the shutter actually fired.
>
> Jeffery
>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> I needed a significant improvement in camera responsiveness and two
>> stops more sensitivity/dynamic range to obtain satisfactory overhead
>> room. This camera solves that problem with room to spare.
>
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Mark Roberts]

Cotty wrote:

>On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>
>I agree totally, and so do my wives.

If you hate lots of different groups is that poligotry?


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Re: OT: new camera

[Mark Roberts]

Mark Roberts wrote:

>Cotty wrote:
>
>>On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>
>>>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>>
>>I agree totally, and so do my wives.
>
>If you hate lots of different groups is that poligotry?

Excuse me, that should be "polygotry", shouldn't it?


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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

I shot last month mostly in aperture priority mode to keep the aperture fairly 
wide (2.5 or so) and increase shutter speed. I did run into some AF focus 
issues that I thought might be the result of multipoint AF, so I tried to 
restrict both AF and exposure readings to a center spot. I've got a shoot 
coming up in early November, so I may try manual focus on it. I usually shoot 
dress rehearsals, which are identical to the actual performances visually but 
allow me to get onto a 20-foot ladder fairly close to the stage. I can probably 
shoot at f/3.5 and rely on manual focus.

I'll probably not buy another camera body until I see a lot of feedback on the 
E-5 and the K-5. Most of my Olympus lenses are big and heavy (zooms, 25/1.4), 
so my preference would be to stick with Pentax.

Jeffery


On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

> I'd have to ask what mode are you in, my experience with the K-x is it
> does not have significant shutter lag except in LV mode (where the lag
> is simply awful, LV is almost unusable on the K-x in my experience).
> It does however have an AF system which struggles in low-light so if
> you're shooting in AF-S your problem is most likely AF lag rather than
> shutter lag since the camera is in Focus Priority mode.
> 
> One of the major reasons why I chose to sell off my Pentax gear and go
> Sony was the issue of focus in low-light where I do much of my
> shooting. The K-x had two issues in really low light, the AF is
> useless in such situations and the viewfinder isn't quite up to
> accurate focus in low light at f1.4-2. The G1, which I owned for about
> a year and a half, had the opposite problem, focus was no issue in low
> light but I ran out of shutter speed (the E-30 had the same problem as
> the G1, a functional ISO limit around ISO 2500). Thankfully the A33
> solves both problems as it's as easy to focus as the G1 in low light,
> has much better AF in low light than the K-x (a real surprise, I
> wasn't expecting much from the A33's AF system) and has nearly as good
> high ISO performance as the K-x, allowing me to get reasonably high
> shutter speeds in very low light.
> 
> Note the K-x significantly outperforms any 4/3rds camera in terms of
> Dynamic Range and Sensitivity (it remains just about the best I've
> seen in APS-C for both DR and high ISO performance). The E-5 should be
> superior in pretty much every other regard except size.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Jeffery Smith  
> wrote:
>> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter 
>> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
>> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
>> 
>> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
>> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot 
>> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time 
>> the shutter actually fired.
>> 
>> Jeffery
>> 
>> On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>> 
>>> I needed a significant improvement in camera responsiveness and two
>>> stops more sensitivity/dynamic range to obtain satisfactory overhead
>>> room. This camera solves that problem with room to spare.
>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> follow the directions.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://www.mawz.ca
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> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[William Robb]

--
From: "frank theriault"
Subject: Re: OT: new camera




IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.


Show me where anything in that sentence isn't true Frank?
You may not like the choice of terminology, but it doesn't indicate bigotry, 
only contempt, which is not the same thing.


William Robb



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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

Who cares?  I'm visualizing the wives.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Rob Studdert  wrote:
>> On 23 October 2010 23:55, Cotty  wrote:
>>> On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>>
IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>>>
>>> I agree totally, and so do my wives.
>>
>> They should probably just kiss and make up.
>
> The wives or ... ??
> --
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>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

No that,  Realllybigotry.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> Cotty wrote:
>
>>On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>
>>>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>>
>>I agree totally, and so do my wives.
>
> If you hate lots of different groups is that poligotry?
>
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[John Francis]

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 12:00:47AM +1100, Rob Studdert wrote:
> On 23 October 2010 23:55, Cotty  wrote:
> > On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
> >
> >>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
> >
> > I agree totally, and so do my wives.
> 
> They should probably just kiss and make up.


OK.  Boys, kiss.  Girls, make up.



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Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

Using the "F word" to describe a gay male is equivalent to using the "N word" 
to describe a person of color. Both indicate intolerance, which is the 
definition of bigotry. Both are grossly unacceptable on any forum. Of course, 
when Robb erupts into obscenities and name calling, most list members consider 
it amusing. "Oh, that's Bill," they say. Well, it's time for Bill to act like 
an adult, and it's time for list members to stop excusing his behavior.
Paul


Paul
On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:58 AM, William Robb wrote:

> 
> ----------
> From: "frank theriault"
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
> 
> 
> 
>> IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
> 
> Show me where anything in that sentence isn't true Frank?
> You may not like the choice of terminology, but it doesn't indicate bigotry, 
> only contempt, which is not the same thing.
> 
> William Robb
> 
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

This incident stands out so much because this list is very high on
civility.  I  admit I wanted to just ignore this, but Paul has this
exactly right.   I'm not saying anyone can't express their anger or
annoyance, but if someone's opinions or attitudes make you mad then
"jerk" is the appropriate manner of address.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, paul stenquist
 wrote:
> Using the "F word" to describe a gay male is equivalent to using the "N word" 
> to describe a person of color. Both indicate intolerance, which is the 
> definition of bigotry. Both are grossly unacceptable on any forum. Of course, 
> when Robb erupts into obscenities and name calling, most list members 
> consider it amusing. "Oh, that's Bill," they say. Well, it's time for Bill to 
> act like an adult, and it's time for list members to stop excusing his 
> behavior.
> Paul
>
>
> Paul
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 11:58 AM, William Robb wrote:
>
>>
>> --
>> From: "frank theriault"
>> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
>>
>>
>>
>>> IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>>
>> Show me where anything in that sentence isn't true Frank?
>> You may not like the choice of terminology, but it doesn't indicate bigotry, 
>> only contempt, which is not the same thing.
>>
>> William Robb
>>
>>
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RE: OT: new camera

[Bob W]

> >>On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
> >>
> >>>IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
> >>
> >>I agree totally, and so do my wives.
> >
> >If you hate lots of different groups is that poligotry?
> 
> Excuse me, that should be "polygotry", shouldn't it?

or jammygittery 

(depending on what his wives are like...)


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Re: OT: new camera

[Matthew Hunt]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 12:41 PM, paul stenquist
 wrote:

> Well, it's time for Bill to act like an adult, and it's time for list members
> to stop excusing his behavior.

I've excused myself from observing his behavior.  *plonk*

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Re: OT: new camera

[William Robb]

--
From: "paul stenquist"
Subject: Re: OT: new camera

Using the "F word" to describe a gay male is equivalent to using the "N 
word" to describe a person of color. Both indicate intolerance, which is 
the definition of bigotry. Both are grossly unacceptable on any forum. Of 
course, when Robb erupts into obscenities and name calling, most list 
members consider it amusing. "Oh, that's Bill," they say. Well, it's time 
for Bill to act like an adult, and it's time for list members to stop 
excusing his behavior.


Paul, if you want to rein me in, then you also need to rein in people who 
would control what subjects are acceptable.
As an example, this little spat was instigated by a member who would have us 
desist with technical discussion because he has no use for it.
I have no use for pictures of little girls at play, will you stop posting 
pictures of your granddaughter to appease me?


My recent lack of activity on list is indicative of my ongoing realization 
that it's relevance to my photographic interests.

Perhaps it's time, after a dozen or so years, to say goodbye.

William Robb 



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Re: OT: new camera

[Bob Sullivan]

Isn't that speaking many languages?

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> Mark Roberts wrote:
>
>>Cotty wrote:
>>
>>>On 23/10/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>>
IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
>>>
>>>I agree totally, and so do my wives.
>>
>>If you hate lots of different groups is that poligotry?
>
> Excuse me, that should be "polygotry", shouldn't it?
>
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 23/10/10, paul stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:

> it's time for Bill to act like an adult, and it's time for list members
>to stop excusing his behavior.

I'd like to be the first to offer a conciliatory hand here and play
devil's advocate. It is just possible that Bill was referring to these...



After all, I've been called one of these on numerous occasions:




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Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 23/10/10, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Perhaps it's time, after a dozen or so years, to say goodbye.

Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)

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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

As Yogi Berra once said, "If Godfrey doesn't want to talk about equipment, you 
can't stop him."

As for Godfrey being pompous, if you had met him in person, you wouldn't feel 
that way. Very often the printed word on a forum makes a person appear 
completely different than their actual demeanor. I spent half a day with 
Godfrey about 5 years ago when he was driving across country. He is friendly, 
outgoing, charismatic, and absolutely jovial. He does his homework before 
making an equipment purchase and generally doesn't need to discuss his 
equipment decisions on-line. I'm lazier, and do seek input from forum members, 
particularly Godfrey. Although he's not crazy about equipment talk, he never 
fails to give me a thoughtful, considerate, insightful answer of no fewer than 
5 paragraphs. 

Sorry, Mr. Robb, but you've got a completely wrong read on him.

Jeffery



On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:10 PM, William Robb wrote:

> this little spat was instigated by a member who would have us desist with 
> technical discussion because he has no use for it.


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Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:39 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter 
> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
> 
> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot 
> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time 
> the shutter actually fired. 

My K-x is set up so that the AE-lock button is also the autofocus lock button. 
If I feel that I can trust the autofocus to pick the right thing to focus on 
(especially tough without the indicator lights) I'll use autofocus to prefocus, 
then hit the lock button so the camera fires when I'm ready.  Alternatively, I 
have a katzeye focusing screen, so manual focus is easy for me in cases like 
that, and I'll just manually focus.

If you think that the debates about sensor size, or vi vs. emacs, or any of the 
other religious wars are bad, try to avoid the matte glass vs. split prism 
debate. For me, when I first bought a katzeye screen, it was like growing back 
a lost appendage. I have had a weird problem with my K-x in that the focusing 
screen has a nasty habit of falling out. I may have tweaked the metal bracket 
just a bit, and I *think* I tried to bend it back the last time that it 
happened.

I haven't done a lot of theater work, but I do a lot of band photography, and I 
think that they are probably fairly similar in what challenges you face. By the 
way, do you check your histograms and expose for the brightest channel when 
manually setting your exposure?

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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Hey Larry,

I have to admit that I really avoid manual focusing of late because of the lack 
of a split prism/split image focusing screen. For me, matte focusing screens 
were only useful when using a tele that was so slow that half of the split 
images blacked out. On Nikon SLRs in the 70's, it was called a K-screen.  To 
give you some idea of how ignorant I am of modern dSLRs, I didn't realize that 
the user could change screens until I went to the Katzeye site and downloaded 
the instructions (!). User-changeable screens was such a perk back in the 70's, 
if the screen was changeable, the customer knew it as it was highly touted in 
the specifications and user manual.

I haven't fooled around much with histograms in the theater productions because 
the lighting changes from minute to minute. This is one of those rare occasions 
when automation seems to work far better than my futzing with the controls. I 
get a spot reading on the subject's chest or face, and keep the shutter button 
partially depressed. I do have to experiment a bit more with the green button 
feature, and will pull out my Magic Lantern book this evening to get a better 
grip on some of the program features.

Is the Katzeye relatively easy to install on the Pentax? I've never had an 
issue with screen swapping on Rolleiflexes, but they are big and easy to fool 
with.

Jeffery


On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:12 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

> 
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:39 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> 
>> I do a significant amount of shooting theater productions, and the shutter 
>> lag is a major issue for me, as is sensitivity/dynamic range. The E-5 is 
>> significantly improved here, or is it simply not a problem with the E-5?
>> 
>> The K-x has not been an issue with dynamic range/sensitivity for me, and the 
>> 77/1.8 is a great focal length for most productions. However, I do get a lot 
>> of lost shots because what I pulled the trigger on had changed by the time 
>> the shutter actually fired. 
> 
> My K-x is set up so that the AE-lock button is also the autofocus lock 
> button. If I feel that I can trust the autofocus to pick the right thing to 
> focus on (especially tough without the indicator lights) I'll use autofocus 
> to prefocus, then hit the lock button so the camera fires when I'm ready.  
> Alternatively, I have a katzeye focusing screen, so manual focus is easy for 
> me in cases like that, and I'll just manually focus.
> 
> If you think that the debates about sensor size, or vi vs. emacs, or any of 
> the other religious wars are bad, try to avoid the matte glass vs. split 
> prism debate. For me, when I first bought a katzeye screen, it was like 
> growing back a lost appendage. I have had a weird problem with my K-x in that 
> the focusing screen has a nasty habit of falling out. I may have tweaked the 
> metal bracket just a bit, and I *think* I tried to bend it back the last time 
> that it happened.
> 
> I haven't done a lot of theater work, but I do a lot of band photography, and 
> I think that they are probably fairly similar in what challenges you face. By 
> the way, do you check your histograms and expose for the brightest channel 
> when manually setting your exposure?
> 
> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 8:58 AM, William Robb wrote:

> 
> --
> From: "frank theriault"
> Subject: Re: OT: new camera
> 
> 
> 
>> IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.
> 
> Show me where anything in that sentence isn't true Frank?
> You may not like the choice of terminology, but it doesn't indicate bigotry, 
> only contempt, which is not the same thing.

Godfrey may be pompous and a twit, but those are hardly rare traits for anyone 
on this list, as I'm about to demonstrate.  And while being a faggot is nowhere 
near as bad as shooting Canon, the word carries a lot of negative emotional 
loading, especially in this context, and with these words, context is 
everything. For example, last month I picked up a friend at the airport, and 
Candice greeted me with "Yo, niggah!".  When a black woman calls a white jewish 
man, who is a close friend "niggah", she gets a laugh and a hug.  If, on the 
other hand, I were to go to downtown Oakland and greet someone I didn't know 
with that exact phrase, the reception would not be nearly as warm and friendly.

I know that you're a nice guy Bill, and not the sort of bigoted asshole that 
the phrase made you seem, and if you are a bigoted asshole, I'd rather maintain 
the illusion that my friends aren't.

And, while we're on the subject, I will point out that Godfrey is not blameless 
either, because he did indeed bait you, provoking you into seeming the asshole.

Besides, "pompous twit faggot"? Are you in third grade? I've seen better taunts 
from 10 year olds. Use some creativity man. Say that Godfrey is such a flaming 
gasbag that he makes the Hindenburg look like someone farting on a lit match.

--
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"

Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm

enjoy!
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Cotty]

On 23/10/10, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>
>http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>
>Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>
>enjoy!

I see you're loving that new toy er camera. That's a lovely portrait.

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Re: OT: new camera

[eckinator]

2010/10/23 William Robb :

*filter off, hand out*

> Paul, if you want to rein me in, then you also need to rein in people who
> would control what subjects are acceptable.

I doubt that could possibly hurt anyone's feelings for more than a second.

> My recent lack of activity on list is indicative of my ongoing realization
> that it's relevance to my photographic interests.

I think your latest eruption belies your interest.

> Perhaps it's time, after a dozen or so years, to say goodbye.

I tend to read your posts with interest and respect you as much as the
next guy. How about you just show some respect from now on and go
about expressing your contempt somewhat more civilly? If you do care
about people on this list, why don't you enrich us by sharing your
photographic interests and make this list a better place for it? If
you don't care about the people, I agree that you might as well leave
but I fail to see the necessity.
Cheers
Ecke

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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

Did you induce the vignetting effect? It's pretty pronounced here.

Jeffery L. Smith
New Orleans, LA

On Oct 23, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
> 
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
> "If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
> 
> Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
> ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
> 
> enjoy!
> -- 
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> ... Besides, "pompous twit faggot"? Are you in third grade? I've seen better 
> taunts from 10 year olds. Use some creativity man. Say that Godfrey is such a 
> flaming gasbag that he makes the Hindenburg look like someone farting on a 
> lit match.

I guess I should avoid beans with my huevos rancheros in the future, eh? ]'-)
-- 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

thanks Cotty!

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:12 PM, Cotty  wrote:
> On 23/10/10, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>>
>>http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>>"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>>
>>Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>>ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>>
>>enjoy!
>
> I see you're loving that new toy er camera. That's a lovely portrait.
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
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>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Yes ... the 11-22 has very very very little corner falloff at f/5.6.
The portrait seemed to lack depth without a little vignette.

Godfrey

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> Did you induce the vignetting effect? It's pretty pronounced here.
>
> Jeffery L. Smith
> New Orleans, LA
>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>>
>> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>> "If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>>
>> Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>> ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>>
>> enjoy!
>> --
>> Godfrey
>>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>>
>> --
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>> follow the directions.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT: new camera

[P N Stenquist]

I really like the immediacy of this. When I clicked it open, I was  
certain that he was going to speak:-).

Paul
On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"

Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm

enjoy!
--
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> 
> 
> Is the Katzeye relatively easy to install on the Pentax? I've never had an 
> issue with screen swapping on Rolleiflexes, but they are big and easy to fool 
> with.
> 

The first time you do it, it can take a bit of work, but it's quite easy.  The 
tricky bit is with the shim behind the screen, getting it to stay in place, or 
go back in place.  The screens come with a tweezer for holding the screen, but 
I'd recommend getting another tweezer for replacing the shim when it falls out. 
Also, invest in powder free gloves before you start.

Likewise, before you start, do some focus tests with the stock screen, and make 
sure things are right. My K20 came with a second shim wedged in behind, I just 
never noticed that manual focus was off until I bought the katzeye.

By the way, the service at Katzeye is stellar. I won't bore the list with my 
stories again, but when I had problems with the extra shim, Rachel Katz's help 
was amazing. As in I got a phone call back minutes after I sent a note 
commenting on my focus being off.


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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

I may look at this sort of thing about 100 times first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqZCjT-jr1s


On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:02 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

> 
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Is the Katzeye relatively easy to install on the Pentax? I've never had an 
>> issue with screen swapping on Rolleiflexes, but they are big and easy to 
>> fool with.
>> 
> 
> The first time you do it, it can take a bit of work, but it's quite easy.  
> The tricky bit is with the shim behind the screen, getting it to stay in 
> place, or go back in place.  The screens come with a tweezer for holding the 
> screen, but I'd recommend getting another tweezer for replacing the shim when 
> it falls out. Also, invest in powder free gloves before you start.
> 
> Likewise, before you start, do some focus tests with the stock screen, and 
> make sure things are right. My K20 came with a second shim wedged in behind, 
> I just never noticed that manual focus was off until I bought the katzeye.
> 
> By the way, the service at Katzeye is stellar. I won't bore the list with my 
> stories again, but when I had problems with the extra shim, Rachel Katz's 
> help was amazing. As in I got a phone call back minutes after I sent a note 
> commenting on my focus being off.
> 
> 
> --
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Thanks Paul! :-)

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:38 PM, P N Stenquist  wrote:
> I really like the immediacy of this. When I clicked it open, I was certain
> that he was going to speak:-).
> Paul
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
>> A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.
>>
>> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
>> "If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"
>>
>> Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
>> ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm
>>
>> enjoy!
>> --
>> Godfrey
>>  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
>>
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Re: OT: new camera

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Lot of people have asked me what the noise at various ISO settings
looks like. This might answer:

http://www.gdgphoto.com/Olympus_E-5-ISO_check/

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

I certainly don't want to see Bill go away.  I can deal just fine with
his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it adds to a
discussion.  As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
"faggot".   It was an inappropriate choice of word and Paul's
comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate.  If someone referred
to a person of color as a "nigger" in the heat of an argument then
people would be appalled and the orginal argument would become moot.
This has nothing to do with strong opinions or heated responses.  It
about the use of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has
become a vile pejorative in the eyes of many.  Words change their
connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during the
transition period.


"> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
> now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
> --      http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _"




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Steve Desjardins

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Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I certainly don't want to see Bill go away.  I can deal just fine with
> his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it adds to a
> discussion.

I don't want to see him go away either. But his language isn't just direct, 
it's frequently abusive. There's no excusing his attack on Godfrey. Godfrey and 
I have gone toe-to-toe on more than one occasion, but we managed to do it 
without being disgusting and personally abusive.

Bill has responded to me in an ugly fashion on more than one occasion when I 
disagreed with him , and I've called him out on it every time.In response, he 
grows even more vile. Yes, I can be aggressive, but I don't resort to personal 
attacks. To do so is childish and totally unacceptable.

 There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree with him, 
apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But I'm not going to 
tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone else should have to either. If 
he wants to behave like an adult, he should come back. Otherwise, he should 
disappear.
Paul


>  As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
> "faggot".   It was an inappropriate choice of word and Paul's
> comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate.  If someone referred
> to a person of color as a "nigger" in the heat of an argument then
> people would be appalled and the orginal argument would become moot.
> This has nothing to do with strong opinions or heated responses.  It
> about the use of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has
> become a vile pejorative in the eyes of many.  Words change their
> connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during the
> transition period.
> 
> 
> "> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
>> now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers,
>>  Cotty
>> 
>> 
>> ___/\__
>> ||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
>> --  http://www.cottysnaps.com
>> _"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Desjardins
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Steven Desjardins]

 I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
things on occasion that I deeply regret later.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:12 PM, paul stenquist  wrote:
>
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 7:35 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>
>> I certainly don't want to see Bill go away.  I can deal just fine with
>> his directness/bluntness, etc., and many times it adds to a
>> discussion.
>
> I don't want to see him go away either. But his language isn't just direct, 
> it's frequently abusive. There's no excusing his attack on Godfrey. Godfrey 
> and I have gone toe-to-toe on more than one occasion, but we managed to do it 
> without being disgusting and personally abusive.
>
> Bill has responded to me in an ugly fashion on more than one occasion when I 
> disagreed with him , and I've called him out on it every time.In response, he 
> grows even more vile. Yes, I can be aggressive, but I don't resort to 
> personal attacks. To do so is childish and totally unacceptable.
>
>  There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree with him, 
> apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But I'm not going to 
> tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone else should have to either. 
> If he wants to behave like an adult, he should come back. Otherwise, he 
> should disappear.
> Paul
>
>
>>  As I said, the only problem here was the use of the word
>> "faggot".   It was an inappropriate choice of word and Paul's
>> comparison to the use of "nigger: was accurate.  If someone referred
>> to a person of color as a "nigger" in the heat of an argument then
>> people would be appalled and the orginal argument would become moot.
>> This has nothing to do with strong opinions or heated responses.  It
>> about the use of a word that has moved beyond its casual use and has
>> become a vile pejorative in the eyes of many.  Words change their
>> connotations and sometimes misunderstandings occur during the
>> transition period.
>>
>>
>> "> Come on Bill - that would mean I will overtake you in longevity here -
>>> now that's really gotta hurt  ;-)
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>  Cotty
>>>
>>>
>>> ___/\__
>>> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
>>> --      http://www.cottysnaps.com
>>> _"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Desjardins
>>
>> --
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>> follow the directions.
>
>
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-- 
Steve Desjardins

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Re: OT: new camera

[Larry Colen]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
> many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
> that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
> sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
> things on occasion that I deeply regret later.
> 
I'm disappointed that he left too.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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Re: OT: new camera

[paul stenquist]

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:08 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

> 
> On Oct 23, 2010, at 6:03 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
> 
>> I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
>> many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
>> that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
>> sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
>> things on occasion that I deeply regret later.
>> 
> I'm disappointed that he left too.
> 
I would be most happy if Bill decided to stay and behave in a civil manner. We 
have had some very productive exchanges over the years. But the negatives far 
outweigh the positives. So without a substantial change in the way he 
corresponds with others on the list, I would rather not see him back here. 
However, that's not my call or even my concern. It's his decision, in more ways 
than one.. 

Paul

> --
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: new camera

[Jeffery Smith]

It's easy to get angry on forums, but some posts go beyond anger. I've lost my 
cool on forums before, and regretted it. I've apologized both onlist and 
offlist (simultaneously) when I've overstepped civility. It's a win-win 
resolution. Apologies were always accepted.

It doesn't hurt, and it isn't eating crow. 

Jeffery

On Oct 23, 2010, at 8:03 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I'm never happy to see anyone just go away.  Tolerance extends in
> many directions.  We're never stronger for losing someone, even if
> that strength is the result of patience on our part.  Maybe I'm
> sensitive to this because I can have quite a bad temper and have said
> things on occasion that I deeply regret later.


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Re: OT: new camera

[Christine Aguila]

Very nice, Godfrey.  Enjoy I did.  Cheers, Christine


- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" 

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: OT: new camera


A photo from this morning's walk and breakfast with friends.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1205/5107798395_a5cc7e2b64_o.jpg
"If It doesn't make sense, it's not true!"

Olympus E-5 + ZD 11-22/2.8-3.5
ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/60 second, 22mm

enjoy!
--
Godfrey
godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

Concerning the foul language, I think that it should be common agreement 
that Igor, I and partially Bob W are the biggest. If Igor and/or I start 
with Russian Mat, it won't be pretty at all. And Bob, given his 
multilinguinity :-) will be our deputy :-).


On the serious note, I still fail to see how one's sexual preferences or 
any other such preferences of private matter have to do with this list. 
Specifically, I am thinking that even mention of one's sexual 
preferences should be simply banned by common agreement here.


Boris


On 10/23/2010 1:31 PM, frank theriault wrote:

Attack his words and ideas?

Fine.

Attack his sexual preference?

Completely out of line.

IMHO there's no place for bigotry on this list - or anywhere else.

cheers,
frank


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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 6:41 PM, paul stenquist wrote:

Using the "F word" to describe a gay male is equivalent to using the
"N word" to describe a person of color. Both indicate intolerance,
which is the definition of bigotry. Both are grossly unacceptable on
any forum. Of course, when Robb erupts into obscenities and name
calling, most list members consider it amusing. "Oh, that's Bill,"
they say. Well, it's time for Bill to act like an adult, and it's
time for list members to stop excusing his behavior. Paul


Paul


Paul's right. I'd like to add that it applies to everyone, not just Bill...

Boris

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 2:12 AM, paul stenquist wrote:

There are those that Bill never abuses, even when they disagree with
him, apparently they have gained his favor. That's fine. But I'm not
going to tolerate his nastiness, and I don't think anyone else should
have to either. If he wants to behave like an adult, he should come
back. Otherwise, he should disappear. Paul


I had lots of discussions with Bill (off the list) that apparently show 
that his and mine views on a number of matters are of polar nature. Yet 
I can safely say that I respect him and he respects me.


It is also true that Bill's expertise in photography and gear is very 
valuable. It will be a loss to the group if he left. As for his behavior 
- well, it was indeed inappropriate, yet knowing what makes him burst, 
the group could be aware of that in a constructive way. After all, this 
group is /mainly/ about photography.


I am thinking that some mutual apologies are in order. Even not because 
all parties have their hands dirty here, but simply to show that these 
parties are willing to take a step towards the other parties and go on 
living in mutual agreement of disagreement on certain matters.


Boris

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/24/2010 3:28 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

It's easy to get angry on forums, but some posts go beyond anger.
I've lost my cool on forums before, and regretted it. I've apologized
both onlist and offlist (simultaneously) when I've overstepped
civility. It's a win-win resolution. Apologies were always accepted.

It doesn't hurt, and it isn't eating crow.

Jeffery


Indeed. Also as someone who met Bill in person (in Chicago this year) I 
should say that he is not kind of person that he seems to be on the list 
or even, should I say, is portrayed by certain others on the list.


I should also say that I very much would like to meet with everyone on 
the list, as I am sure such an experience will prove beneficial for all 
involved parties. And absolutely, I'd like to meet Godfrey in person too.


Boris

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 9:38 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

For example, last month I picked up a friend at the airport, and
Candice greeted me with "Yo, niggah!".  When a black woman calls a
white jewish man, who is a close friend "niggah", she gets a laugh
and a hug.


I recently learned about existence of work "kike" in English/American 
language. As a certified zhid to another certified zhid, I suggest, that 
next time we meet, I'd shout something in lines of "Hi there, kikey! 
What's up in sunny California?" :-)


^^
||
A joke

Boris

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Re: OT: new camera

[Boris Liberman]

On 10/23/2010 4:28 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

For me, what this pro-grade body nets as advantage (other
than its  improvements in image stabilization, viewfinder quality,
resolution, etc over my existing equipment, is it's responsiveness
and noise control.


Oh! So, my assumption is approved by you here. You don't need pro grade 
gear for its extended longevity or sturdiness and resistance to 
elements. It is other aspects. Again, not attacking you in any way - 
rather trying to understand you.


What you say makes perfect sense to me.

Boris

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