RE: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
maybe try that fender p bass , preferably the american, with an ampeg svt 450 and the sustain pushed tp the right. -Original Message- From: Joe Gracey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 8:02 PM To: passenger side Subject: Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question! BARNARD wrote: And as you probably know, SGs won't stay in tune worth a damn either. Must be a cursed body shape or something g. I think it has to do with the EBO necks being not very precisely made. If I'm in tune in open E, then almost nothing else is. Those Danelectro-style basses always sound nice to me, although they obviously don't have the all-purpose overall quality of a P-bass. I played one of those today and I liked it pretty good, but it still doesn't have that long, unctuous sustain that I need for KRhodes new stuff. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Joe, On the EBO thing, it's a great bass and the problem is not so much with the bass, but with the tuning keys. I don't know who makes replacement keys for it but there's the tuning problem. The reason for the "thump" sound is the short scale neck thing. The longer the neck. the more sustain. The shorter, well I think you get it. Before you give any money to overseas manufacturers, check out some Anerican made basses. I don't know your price range, but look at used GL basses, ESP, Hamer or Fernandez if you want to go import. The sad thing with Japanese, Taiwan, Korean or cheap basses is they don't hold any resale value. Oh yea, I almost forgot to memtion Peavey basses. I have an endorsement with them and they make a killer product. Believe it or not, your EBO is worth a few bucks depending on year and condition. Upright players like them alot. Good luck, Andy Tanas Joe Gracey wrote: Ok, I have this great old Gibson EBO short-scale bass that I am very comfortable with, played for years, except the dang thing doesn't tune very well and it has that short-scale kind of "thump" sound instead of a long sustain and high end like a P-Bass. Has anybody ever successfully fixed a short scale Gibson so it will tune? And secondly, if I do decide to get a P-Bass or copy thereof, which ones are good and which ones suck? Mexican P-Basses any good? Peavey? Yamaha? Might as well do this off-list, I'm sure this is ultra boring to non-players. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Sorry, Did I say "memtion"? I meant mention. Illiterate in Memphis, but at least I wash my hands after using the bathroom. Andy Tanas Andy Tanas wrote: Joe, On the EBO thing, it's a great bass and the problem is not so much with the bass, but with the tuning keys. I don't know who makes replacement keys for it but there's the tuning problem. The reason for the "thump" sound is the short scale neck thing. The longer the neck. the more sustain. The shorter, well I think you get it. Before you give any money to overseas manufacturers, check out some Anerican made basses. I don't know your price range, but look at used GL basses, ESP, Hamer or Fernandez if you want to go import. The sad thing with Japanese, Taiwan, Korean or cheap basses is they don't hold any resale value. Oh yea, I almost forgot to memtion Peavey basses. I have an endorsement with them and they make a killer product. Believe it or not, your EBO is worth a few bucks depending on year and condition. Upright players like them alot. Good luck, Andy Tanas Joe Gracey wrote: Ok, I have this great old Gibson EBO short-scale bass that I am very comfortable with, played for years, except the dang thing doesn't tune very well and it has that short-scale kind of "thump" sound instead of a long sustain and high end like a P-Bass. Has anybody ever successfully fixed a short scale Gibson so it will tune? And secondly, if I do decide to get a P-Bass or copy thereof, which ones are good and which ones suck? Mexican P-Basses any good? Peavey? Yamaha? Might as well do this off-list, I'm sure this is ultra boring to non-players. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
As far as a Twin Reverb goes, that should be a great amp for steel. Here's what Jerry Byrd has to say about it in the book "The Hawaiian Steel Guitar and Its Great Hawaiian Musicians" (edited by Lorene Ruymar, published by Centerstream Press): Well, of course, just as soon as I read this paragraph I hustled over to amazon.com, pulled up this book's entry, and in addition to a fine review from some guy named Bechtel, I found this, which tickled my funnybone: Amazon.com Sales Rank: 184,595 I guess that puts it a couple of notches shy of the best-seller list... Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
Brad Bechtel wrote: Oh, yeah...Solomon Ho'opi'i Ka'ai'ai is the king of Hawaiian guitar. How would you like to have him in your band come band introduction time, mid-second set and five beers into the night? "...on bass, Geff King, and over here to my left, on steel" Dave *** Dave Purcell, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Northern Ky Roots Music: http://w3.one.net/~newport Twangfest: http://www.twangfest.com
Re: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
Hey there, Brad Bechtel wrote: Oh, yeah...Solomon Ho'opi'i Ka'ai'ai is the king of Hawaiian guitar. How would you like to have him in your band come band introduction time, mid-second set and five beers into the night? "...on bass, Geff King, and over here to my left, on steel" "... Sol, from Hawaii" Later... CK ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
Anyone out there want to take a run at completeing the following statement: fill in the blank is to the lap steel what Mississippi John Hurt is to fingerstyle guitar What little I know about playing fingerstyle guitar I learned from listening to Mississippi John Hurt's relatively simple, elegant work. Who should I be listening to to hear lap steel lovingly stripped to the bare essentials and well played. Anon...TG
Re: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
In a message dated 4/14/99 7:55:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anyone out there want to take a run at completeing the following statement: fill in the blank is to the lap steel what Mississippi John Hurt is to fingerstyle guitar Jamie Swedberg form the Blockheaters. Mitch Matthews Gravel Train/Sunken Road
Re: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
Blah blah fill in the blank is to the lap steel what Mississippi John Hurt is to fingerstyle guitar What little I know about playing fingerstyle guitar I learned from listening to Mississippi John Hurt's relatively simple, elegant work. Who should I be listening to to hear lap steel lovingly stripped to the bare essentials and well played. Well, I'd say Jerry Byrd except he's about as far from Mississippi John Hurt's style as you can get and still be an American. Suggested listening for lap steel guitarists: Jerry Byrd - the master of tone and touch, although maybe not the master of taste. Some of his recordings are pretty heavy on the schmaltz. David Lindley - is playing mostly acoustic Weissenborn guitars now. His lap steel work with Jackson Browne defined the use of lap steel in rock. Any of his solo CDs with Hani Naser or Wally Ingram on percussion gives you a good idea of what he's doing now and what's possible (see http://www.davidlindley.com for ordering). Jerry Douglas - although known more for his Dobro playing, he does some fine lap steel work on his latest CD "Restless on the Farm" Two excellent early examples of lap steel are Leon McAuliffe (with Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys) and Don Helms (with Hank Williams and the Drifting Cowboys). More information available on my web site. ___ Brad's Page of Steel: http://www.well.com/user/wellvis/steel.html A web site devoted to acoustic and electric lap steel guitars
RE: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
Assuming that lap steel = non-pedal steel (as opposed to literally and exclusively a little bitty guitar that sits face up on your lap), Leon McAuliffe and Don Helms are pretty obvious choices for guys who mostly played pretty simple stuff that's nevertheless right on the money, and I'd add Kayton Roberts, who worked with Hank Snow for many years, and Little Roy Wiggins, Eddy Arnold's steel player, both of whom are also pretty minimalist. Of these, I believe only Wiggins played an actual lap steel, and I'm not even sure about him g. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Ok, I have this great old Gibson EBO short-scale bass that I am very comfortable with, played for years, except the dang thing doesn't tune very well and it has that short-scale kind of "thump" sound instead of a long sustain and high end like a P-Bass. Has anybody ever successfully fixed a short scale Gibson so it will tune? And secondly, if I do decide to get a P-Bass or copy thereof, which ones are good and which ones suck? Mexican P-Basses any good? Peavey? Yamaha? Might as well do this off-list, I'm sure this is ultra boring to non-players. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Ok, I have this great old Gibson EBO short-scale bass that I am very comfortable with, played for years, except the dang thing doesn't tune very well and it has that short-scale kind of "thump" sound instead of a long sustain and high end like a P-Bass. Has anybody ever successfully fixed a short scale Gibson so it will tune? Not that I know of. I played an EB3 for about 5 years and gave up. And secondly, if I do decide to get a P-Bass or copy thereof, which ones are good and which ones suck? Mexican P-Basses any good? Peavey? Yamaha? The Mexican Precisions are, IMO, as good as or better than anyone else's knockoffs at that price range ($300 or less); the biggest gotcha I've heard about with them is that the pickups and routing for them are slightly different than the old Ps and the new American Standards and up, so that you might have a problem putting in aftermarket replacements (it's apparently not impossible, but it might be more complicated than you would want to DIY). Still, I know a bunch of folks who play them, and have yet to hear of any problems. Personally, I love my '96 American Standard, which when I bought it new ran around $650. Quality workmanship, you can go string-thru-body, and most germane to the tuning issue, and most importantly in terms of your EB0 complaint, it has a graphite reinforcement in the neck that makes it rilly solid. The only time I have to retune the durn thing is if someone (like, for instance, me) bumps into one of the tuning machines; I have taken it from a frigid, dry, air-conditioned room out into 90+ temps w/ high humidity without having to retune, and have gone literally weeks at a time without its going out. Anyhow, I'm not one of those "gotta be a Fender" types, especially once you get more exotic than a Precision, but for a basic bass, the P is awfully hard to beat, and you really can spend about as little - or as much - as you want. Might as well do this off-list, I'm sure this is ultra boring to non-players. Yeah, right, it's not of general interest, like vintage cereals g. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
RE: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Blah blah Yeah, right, it's not of general interest, like vintage cereals g. I daresay more of us have tasted Quisp than played bass. Otherwise an excellent post, Jon.
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Jon Weisberger wrote: Anyhow, I'm not one of those "gotta be a Fender" types, especially once you get more exotic than a Precision, but for a basic bass, the P is awfully hard to beat, and you really can spend about as little - or as much - as you want. Thanks, Jon, sounds real to me. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Jon on the relevance or not of equipment threads.. Yeah, right, it's not of general interest, like vintage cereals g. True. We've had Tele threads and amp threads that went on for days. Or, you could just take it to the "fluff" list. On the fluff list, Joe, we could talk basses and Texas history for days with complete impunity g And as you probably know, SGs won't stay in tune worth a damn either. Must be a cursed body shape or something g. Those Danelectro-style basses always sound nice to me, although they obviously don't have the all-purpose overall quality of a P-bass. --junior
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Brad Bechtel wrote: Blah blah Yeah, right, it's not of general interest, like vintage cereals g. I daresay more of us have tasted Quisp than played bass. Otherwise an excellent post, Jon. I doubt it g. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
BARNARD wrote: And as you probably know, SGs won't stay in tune worth a damn either. Must be a cursed body shape or something g. I think it has to do with the EBO necks being not very precisely made. If I'm in tune in open E, then almost nothing else is. Those Danelectro-style basses always sound nice to me, although they obviously don't have the all-purpose overall quality of a P-bass. I played one of those today and I liked it pretty good, but it still doesn't have that long, unctuous sustain that I need for KRhodes new stuff. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
Out of curiousity: Does anyone play Alembic (sp?) basses anymore? Or Steinbergers? I always liked Steinberger's guitars and basses because they stayed in tune. Carl Z.
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
I played one of those today and I liked it pretty good, but it still doesn't have that long, unctuous sustain that I need for KRhodes new stuff. Yeah, sustain is not what the Danelectro / Jerry Jones style ones are about, for sure. Seems like the P-bass is pretty irrefutable in these matters... --junior
Re: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
Sol Hoopii, Master of the Hawaiian Guitar Vol. 1 and others (my copy is Rounder 1024), is certainly a primer on this kind of instrument. He used a couple of different tunings on this effort recorded between 1926 and 1930, which was probably a simpler time. In further lap steel news, and since we have not had any tech talk recently - I am currently trying out a Fender Twin with my National 6 string. I was running out of oomph with the old Supro while playing in my son's band Carter Monrose in their electric sets, hence the search for more raw power. So far, I am not satisfied with the reverb or the bass string reproduction. There are a boatload of knobs and dials on this thing so I may just not be twirling them the right way. I think a Peavey may be the answer. William W Western
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
"George L. Figgs" wrote: I don't how similar the workmanship in P's and Jazz basses are, but for what it's worth, I've got a mexican std jazz bass. Thanks, George, and Jerry, and all you poor bass playing bastards out there. It is a tool of ignorance. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Warning: Bass Guitar question!
unctuous sustain Damn! Too long for an AOL log-on.
Re: Question: Lap Steel by Analogy
Mitch Matthews wrote: Anyone out there want to take a run at completeing the following statement: fill in the blank is to the lap steel what Mississippi John Hurt is to fingerstyle guitar Jamie Swedberg form the Blockheaters. Oh bullsh*t, I am a complete hack at it! But very sweet of you to say so. --Jamie S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wavetech.net/~swedberg http://www.usinternet.com/users/ndteegarden/bheaters
Bruce Wrapped question
Someone, I think Bill F, was asking for info on Bruce Robison's Wrapped? I found my copy if you still need it, contact me; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Hayshttp://www.TwangCast.com TM RealCountry 24 X 7 Please Visit Then let us know what you think! Mike Hays www.MikeHays.RealCountry.netFor the best country artist web hosting, www.RealCountry.net
Re: Shaver knicking question...
Sorry the disk came without a cover and I don't have it with me right now, so I can't give you the track listing. I can get them later if you want. What's up with that lame New West web site? Jim
Question
Here's slightly strange question for you: Does anyone have the phone numbers for Mojo and Q Magazines? Hey thanks. Jeff Copetas ~ Tar Hut RecordsPO Box 441940 ~ Somerville, MA 02144www.tarhut.com ~ (617)776-5106
Re: Question
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 6-Apr-99 Question by "Tar Hut Records"@tarhut Does anyone have the phone numbers for Mojo and Q Magazines? Hey thanks. Mojo's main office is 0171-436-1515; US bureau chief Barney Hoskyns is at 914-679-2646. Mojo's email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carl Z.
ricky skaggs question
Does anyone here know how to reach management or PR for Ricky Skaggs? He is coming to my hometown of Anderson next month and I would like to do an interview. Thanks. Rick Teverbaugh
RE: ricky skaggs question
RS Entertainment 329 Rockland Road Hendersonville, TN 37075 PH# 615-264-8877 / FX# 615-264-8899 Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
lyric question
Greetings from the other side... this one's coming over the P2 wall as I'm not signed up... I'm just a full-time fluffer. I've been searching endlessly for the lyrics to Alejandro Escovedo's "She Towers Above," but have run into a dead end about everywhere... it's funny that I never queried you all sooner. Anyhow, does anyone know the last verse? That's all I need, the part about where she dances with the dog collar or doll color bone or something :) Please reply to me personally and not to the whole list. Well you can do that, but be sure to include me too. See y'all in June. Any Merlefesters should get a hold of me as well. I'll be down for that as well. Chadooski
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Will Miner wrote: (ducking, in case Curry is anywhere nearby) Golly.could you imagine Rick Wakeman decked out with a cape AND a Stetson!!! Wow.. Think about stacked steels..run through multiple effect banks. The possibilities are endless. Going to start me one of those "progressive country" bands...we'll call it."Ya'll", since Yes has been taken. NP: Gary Allen - Used heart for Sale Jerry
RE: A Question [Extremely LONG] and other stuff
Jon writes re the Kenny/Ann-1979, G*rth/Shania-1999 comparison: It's not a bad comparison, especially if you look forward a little bit - 1979 was a low point, followed shortly by the Neo-Trads (Skaggs, early McEntire, et.al.) - but it has its limits; "rules" is a pretty slippery term. Murray and Rogers each had 3 #1s that year (one of Rogers' was with Dottie West), but Conway Twitty did, too, Waylon Jennings had 2, John Conlee had 2, Charley Pride had 2, Don Williams had 2, and Mel Tillis, Moe Joe, and Willie Nelson Leon Russell all hit that position, and when you get deeper into the charts there was plenty of good stuff around (e.g., Emmylou Harris had two Top 10s and another two that just missed). The problem, as it were, is that country music history is generally too complicated to allow for the kinds of general statements about the health of the field that folks often seem compelled to make. I don't think that Wahl was comparing radio play (other people have had #1 records this past year, too, obviously) but was looking at in terms of *sales*, which is what most of the articles I've read have focused on as well; You have G*rth and Shania and then everyone else. And re: McCall on Chesnutt and the Damnations: I guess McCall thought there was some other point; maybe he thought that enthusiasm is a *starting* point for making good music, not the ending point. I wouldn't give the new Chesnutt 4 stars, but I wouldn't give the Damnations TX 3, either, not on a country music scale, anyhow (meaning both albums). Guessing don't count for much g. But I think this goes a long way to explaining why Jon doesn't "get" much of what most people refer to as alt.country, where enthusiasm is *only* the point of making good music. Re: Country.com encyclopedia: Walser's in there, and so are Dale Watson, Kelly Willis, Townes Van Zandt, BR5-49, Julie Buddy Miller, the Flatlanders and Foster Lloyd, to take a few randomly-chosen (ha) instances. I don't have the disk to check, but I'm almost positive Walser is *not* in there. The main problem I have with it is that it's almost exclusively Nashville country based and doesn't take into account non-Nashville acts. I'll keep the disc, though, My dog loves shiny frisbee. g. Jim, not running for president of anything
RE: A Question [Extremely LONG] and other stuff
Jim says: I don't think that Wahl was comparing radio play (other people have had #1 records this past year, too, obviously) but was looking at in terms of *sales*, which is what most of the articles I've read have focused on as well; You have G*rth and Shania and then everyone else. Ah, well, that's different. But in that case, it seems to me that a comparison with sales in other genres today is relevant, too, i.e., do you find the same kind of inverted pyramid with respect to sales, with a handful of acts accounting for a hugely disproportionate percentage of units. I will be surprised if the situation is radically different in pop or rock, and if that's so, then it would suggest that a solution might not be specific to country music either, and that one would want to look at least as closely at the situation in other fields as at the situation in country music 20 years ago. Still, it sounds worth checking out. And re: McCall on Chesnutt and the Damnations: I guess McCall thought there was some other point; maybe he thought that enthusiasm is a *starting* point for making good music, not the ending point. I wouldn't give the new Chesnutt 4 stars, but I wouldn't give the Damnations TX 3, either, not on a country music scale, anyhow (meaning both albums). Guessing don't count for much g. But I think this goes a long way to explaining why Jon doesn't "get" much of what most people refer to as alt.country, where enthusiasm is *only* the point of making good music. No, I get it just fine. I just don't generally *like* music that features enthusiasm sans skill. There are plenty of musicians who have both (IMO, of course; enthusiasm is at least in part in the ear of the listener), so I don't see much reason to settle for just the one. Obviously, there are exceptions, but not many. Re: Country.com encyclopedia: Walser's in there, and so are Dale Watson, Kelly Willis, Townes Van Zandt, BR5-49, Julie Buddy Miller, the Flatlanders and Foster Lloyd, to take a few randomly-chosen (ha) instances. I don't have the disk to check, but I'm almost positive Walser is *not* in there. That's interesting. If you don't mind checking, I'd appreciate it; I'm curious as to whether there's much difference in content between the print version and the CD-ROM one, and Walser is definitely in the former. The main problem I have with it is that it's almost exclusively Nashville country based and doesn't take into account non-Nashville acts. Aw, baloney. It might not devote enough space to "non-Nashville acts," whatever that means (what's a Nashville act? One on the Nashville division of a major label? recorded exclusively in Nashville? recorded sometimes in Nashville? lives in Nashville? lived in Nashville for a while?), to suit some folks, but I'll bet there's not a dozen pages out of the 600+ in the print edition that doesn't have a "non-Nashville act" entry by any reasonable definition of the term. Maybe the CD-ROM's different... Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
Cheryl's deal on this was good. I agreed with it. And I also understand where Jim Roll was coming from, about the press and alt.country. Except one thing-- I wish the term "country rock" hadn't been ruined by the Eagles and the L.A. 70s scene. It was a very useful term. I've been writing it letters where it's been interned, on some outre gulag on the eastern edge of Siberia.Let me know when it's safe to bring it back. -- Terry Smith
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
Cheryl Cline wrote: Bob "Ask Joe" Soron wrote: I remember the Name Problem, but I didn't much pay attention at the time. I use pretty tightly defined nomenclatures, so that no matter what people might think I'm saying, I always know. And as a non-Big Tent-er, I don't use alt.country, No Depression, Americana, and other titles synonymously. So I'm probably much less help than you'd hoped. (I haven't got a clue as to chronology, either.) Well, YOU'RE no help! I'm still curious about how far back this "we gotta get a name for this stuff" goes. Anyone else remember? Uh, Joe? g In 1971 we started looking for a name for it and the best we could do was "Progressive Country", which was decent enough but somehow unsatisfying. There was, and still is, no perfect name for something this diverse. I mean, how do you describe country music played by hippies? How about "Badly Played Country That Sounds Really Cool If You Are Stoned"? How about "Singing About Whiskey While High on LSD"? -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Joe Gracey wrote: In 1971 we started looking for a name for it and the best we could do was "Progressive Country", which was decent enough but somehow unsatisfying. Gee, right around that same time people were looking for a name for the kind of overworked poppyclassicojazzrock hodgepodge played by people like Yes and ELP and they came up with the name "progressive rock." The idea of there being any link between these two, even if only by an adjective, gives me the heebie jeebies. Will Miner Denver, CO (ducking, in case Curry is anywhere nearby)
Re: A progressive Question [Extremely LONG]
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Joe Gracey wrote: In 1971 we started looking for a name for it and the best we could do was "Progressive Country", which was decent enough but somehow unsatisfying. Gee, right around that same time people were looking for a name for the kind of overworked poppyclassicojazzrock hodgepodge played by people like Yes and ELP and they came up with the name "progressive rock." The idea of there being any link between these two, even if only by an adjective, gives me the heebie jeebies. Will Miner And the pre=newwgrass bands of that same time were called "Progressive Bluegrass" if that helps! Remember, "progressive jazz" was a term already over a decade old then. (In 1961, Progressive Jazz means something like, say, Maynard Fergusonand I guess they'd even used it before that for Brubeck etc...Even then it meant a well-intentioned middle class intellectual watering down of something harder!) Joe could fill in more detail, but in '71 the "progressive rock" label was not being born, but horribly transmorgified into what Will just described. It had been used since the advent of FM album-playing rock stations in '66-'67--and the stations themselves were usually called "free form" or "progressive"...so anything over 2 minutes and 8 seconds on a single was progressive rock! Part of me still feels we were better off with the 2 minutes 8 seconds, and I say this as a known Dylan fan. Barry
Re: A progressive Question [Extremely LONG]
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Barry Mazor wrote: Part of me still feels we were better off with the 2 minutes 8 seconds, and I say this as a known Dylan fan. Absolutely. Removing the time barrier has made people lazy. Now you get songs that start with sixteen bars of empty chord changes, extra verses that add nothing, bridges inserted just to have a bridge, endless repetitions of choruses. The good thing about music that was oriented toward quick singles was that everything had to make a difference. Too bad we've lost that ethic. (Even Dylan, when he was good and breaking the time rule, had it. I'd say there's nothing extraneous in the 7-1/2 minutes of "Visions of Johanna," whereas there's lots extraneous in the 8 minutes of "Idiot Wind," done eight years later.) Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG] and other stuff
Cheryl writes: Our second question is: Where can I find Merle Haggard's tribute to Jimmie Rodgers? I almost spit coffee through my nose on this one line. LOL! Ya know this name thing has really got me bugged, especially cause I need to name something centered around this"Big Tent" type of music and I can't find a one that's satisfactory. AND I've been looking for YEARS! On another note, been reading some 'zines lately and found some interesting stuff. I recommend Modern Screen Country Music (Shania Twain centerfold inside-I kid you not) for the column by Waylon Wahl that draws comparisons to the country music scene of 20 years ago (ruled by Kenny Rogers and Ann Murray) and today (ruled by G*rth and Shania)? Also, how could Michael McCall give the new Mark Chesnutt 4 stars and the Damnations 3 stars in the new Tower Pulse. Seems kinda backward to me, especially because he doesn't like the D-nations for having more "enthusiasm than expertise." I thought that was the point. I received a copy of "Country.com's Century Of Country Music: The Definitive Country Music Encyclopedia" CD-ROM. Went looking for the Derailers. Not there. Thing is fairly useless. I do understand that David Goodman has a revised copy of Modern Twang coming out. I'll wait for that one. Enough rambling... Did I say "I (heart) Cheryl Cline, today? Jim, smilin
RE: A Question [Extremely LONG] and other stuff
On another note, been reading some 'zines lately and found some interesting stuff. I recommend Modern Screen Country Music (Shania Twain centerfold inside-I kid you not) for the column by Waylon Wahl that draws comparisons to the country music scene of 20 years ago (ruled by Kenny Rogers and Ann Murray) and today (ruled by G*rth and Shania)? It's not a bad comparison, especially if you look forward a little bit - 1979 was a low point, followed shortly by the Neo-Trads (Skaggs, early McEntire, et.al.) - but it has its limits; "rules" is a pretty slippery term. Murray and Rogers each had 3 #1s that year (one of Rogers' was with Dottie West), but Conway Twitty did, too, Waylon Jennings had 2, John Conlee had 2, Charley Pride had 2, Don Williams had 2, and Mel Tillis, Moe Joe, and Willie Nelson Leon Russell all hit that position, and when you get deeper into the charts there was plenty of good stuff around (e.g., Emmylou Harris had two Top 10s and another two that just missed). The problem, as it were, is that country music history is generally too complicated to allow for the kinds of general statements about the health of the field that folks often seem compelled to make. Also, how could Michael McCall give the new Mark Chesnutt 4 stars and the Damnations 3 stars in the new Tower Pulse. Seems kinda backward to me, especially because he doesn't like the D-nations for having more "enthusiasm than expertise." I thought that was the point. I guess McCall thought there was some other point; maybe he thought that enthusiasm is a *starting* point for making good music, not the ending point. I wouldn't give the new Chesnutt 4 stars, but I wouldn't give the Damnations TX 3, either, not on a country music scale, anyhow (meaning both albums). I received a copy of "Country.com's Century Of Country Music: The Definitive Country Music Encyclopedia" CD-ROM. Went looking for the Derailers. Not there. Thing is fairly useless. Well, like with any encyclopedia, stuff's gotta get left out. Walser's in there, and so are Dale Watson, Kelly Willis, Townes Van Zandt, BR5-49, Julie Buddy Miller, the Flatlanders and Foster Lloyd, to take a few randomly-chosen (ha) instances. Personally, I think giving as much space to Walser and Watson combined, or to Jim Jesse, as to Shania Twain isn't a half-bad approach. I'm sure someone would be happy to take that fairly useless CD off your hands. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
Re: A Question
At 12:11 PM -0800 on 3/5/99, Cheryl Cline wrote: If they're not "alt country" or "alternative country" according to the UT/No Depression revisionism, er, I mean yardstick, then, we're back to the original problem being batted around back then (and when *did* this start, btw? Bob Soron?) [...] I had *nothing* to do with it. Ask Gracey, who was there whenever something good happened. Or someone old, like Barry or Wyatt. g np - Stubb's Blues Cookbook. Come to think of it, you probably had a finger or two in this, Joe? Bob
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
wsgroups were (are?) openly antagonistic towards older and non-charting country music. This list is open to discussion of country music in all its forms, though sometimes that discussion is heated. But if it were to become a UT-ND type list only, it would be no more satisfying than r.m.c.w.'s hot new country focus. The thing is, there's this... reservoir of "alternative country" that has existed at least since bluegrass, the Original Alt.Country (TM) was invented. But I'll talk about country-rock. What happens is, a wave of people get interested in country music, whether as refugees from rock or from top-40 country -- and they change it somewhat, usually mixing in the rock aesthetic currently popular. So people in the 60s throw in rock rebellion and "back to the country." Next up, the Outlaws throw in some more rebellion -- with a slightly different sound. Then along comes punk, and throws in, oh, edginess, irony, and of course, more rebellion. Later still, a new post-punk alternative rock movement gets interested in country, and throws in more of same. I simplify, of course, and these are just some of the big waves -- there are also a lot of little ripples and wavelets that move back and forth, individual artists who make a splash, etc. At the same time, all of these movements insist on country "authenticity," even while defining it to suit themselves. This means that a certain number of musicians and fans will drift from the country-rock of the day to country. All roads lead to Mother Maybelle, abandonning the water metaphor for a sec. So the "reservoir" of an alternative country music -- alternative to whatever is currently unsatisfactory in mainstream country or in rock or in society in general -- changes over time, but is also the place where you can drink your fill of country's *history*. Including all the country rock and "alternative" country movements that went before. On this list, we have people who went to that reservoir in the 50s; during the "Folk Scare" of the 60s, from the 70s Outlaw movement, from 70s or 90s punk, from the 80s New Traditionalist movement, and out of dissatisfaction from Hot New Country, or the Urban Cowboy fad, or the Nashville Sound (some people who disliked the slick sound of country music in the early 60s moved to bluegrass!). We jump into the reservoir, and some of us go all the way under water. Our first question is: Where can I find more music like the Byrds/Waylon Jennings/Jason the Scorchers/Uncle Tupelo? Our second question is: Where can I find Merle Haggard's tribute to Jimmie Rodgers? --Cheryl Cline
Re: Cheryl's answer to Question [Extremely LONG]
Amen. It's keep on coming and it keeps on coming back. Witn the health of the music that exactly fits the "tiny tent" alt.country definition at least questionable now--the bigger picture ought to feel like good news to anybody who's really connected with ALL THIS. What Cheryl said was the five-ring circus Big Tent truth... Put as only Ms. Cline can put it--whenever she happens to get so in-Clined. Barry Who kinda stepped into the pool as a small kid in the rockabilly 50s..appreciated the positive side of the folk scare..and has been in whole hog thgru the twists and turns since the Byrd-in-the-Burrito country rock non-boomlet. (Also trying to figure how Mr. Cantwell's new "what you hgeard at age ten" rule applies to me--cause 1960 was kind of a slimn year between some fat periods!)
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
Cheryl -- just please please don't ever find better things to do with your time. thank you, Linda
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
At 11:42 AM -0800 on 3/6/99, Cheryl Cline wrote: I'm askin' you! g. Of course Gracey is the one to ask, as he goes back To The Beginning of Time, what a maroon I am. It's just that back when I first got on the Net, reading rec.music.country.western, I remember you as being the one with the knowledge of all things Flatlanders. I reckon Joe could probably outdo me there too. g When I started seeking out like-minded twangsters, about this time, through Twangin', and later the Internet, the search for a name for the "what we mean when we point to it" music was already underway, and it referred to people like Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Joe Ely, Butch Hancock, Nanci Griffith, Tish Hinojosa, Rosie Flores, Dave Alvin and other, uh, "pre No Depression" musicians. Kevin Welch and Jimmie Dale Gilmore came up with "western beat," which Welch used for an album (and which Billy Block had been using for some time in L.A. for his showcases). That didn't take. Didn't Gavin start up the Americana charts about this time? Or was that a bit later? That name didn't stick either. I remember the Name Problem, but I didn't much pay attention at the time. I use pretty tightly defined nomenclatures, so that no matter what people might think I'm saying, I always know. And as a non-Big Tent-er, I don't use alt.country, No Depression, Americana, and other titles synonymously. So I'm probably much less help than you'd hoped. (I haven't got a clue as to chronology, either.) The thing is, there's this... reservoir of "alternative country" that has existed at least since bluegrass, the Original Alt.Country (TM) was invented. Well, not being a Big Tent adherent, I disagree that either of these are alternative in any way, but I think you're thinking of Western swing. g Bob
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
Bob "Ask Joe" Soron wrote: I remember the Name Problem, but I didn't much pay attention at the time. I use pretty tightly defined nomenclatures, so that no matter what people might think I'm saying, I always know. And as a non-Big Tent-er, I don't use alt.country, No Depression, Americana, and other titles synonymously. So I'm probably much less help than you'd hoped. (I haven't got a clue as to chronology, either.) Well, YOU'RE no help! I'm still curious about how far back this "we gotta get a name for this stuff" goes. Anyone else remember? Uh, Joe? g The thing is, there's this... reservoir of "alternative country" that has existed at least since bluegrass, the Original Alt.Country (TM) was invented. Well, not being a Big Tent adherent, I disagree that either of these are alternative in any way, but I think you're thinking of Western swing. g We'll let Jon and Don duke that one out! I know you're not a Big Tent person. Aren't you the one defying the Bluegrass Borg? g I was delirious on coffee this morning, and I'm not sure I got all my point across. Let's see, another 2,000 words? Okay, not. g But aside from, in addition to, alongside, or existing independently of, genres such as rockabilly, bluegrass, and etc., there seems to also to be a bunch of music at any given time that doesn't fit any clear genre, and is more-or-less "roots" and more-or-less "country" -- like the ex-Flatlanders. It *was* called "roots music" in the 70s and early 80s, wasn't it? Hmmm Maybe I need more coffee. I'm unpacking boxes of books and magazines (and clippings) though, so maybe I can find some clues. (Never move into a place with a garage. You NEVER get your stuff unpacked.) --Cheryl Cline
A Question
Question: As I first heard the term "alternative country" applied, reluctantly and for lack of a better term (a search for a better phrase was underway but never found) to bands musicians who didn't, for one reason or another, fit into the prevailing "Hot New Country" format, either because they were "too country" or because they added the "wrong" kind of rock music to their mix -- on one hand, Jimmie Dale Gilmore; on the other, Clay Blaker, and on the third hand, bubbling-under artists like Kevin Welch or Steve Earle; artists who, furthermore, weren't part of a discernable genre like bluegrass or rockabilly, except where they were filed under "folk" by default, my question is; If they're not "alt country" or "alternative country" according to the UT/No Depression revisionism, er, I mean yardstick, then, we're back to the original problem being batted around back then (and when *did* this start, btw? Bob Soron?) which is: What DO we call this stuff? The Other Alternative Country, Whatever That Is? And what DO we do call country that is too country for either mainstream radio or "alt-country?" That has negligble rock content, and hews close to the *country* side of things? "Real Country" isn't acceptable, apparently. "Hard" gets mixed up with "Alt." "Traditional Country" doesn't work for several reasons. "New Traditionalists?" Oh wait, that was tried. "Post-Traditionalist Country?" "Neo-Classic Country?" "Post-Classic Neo-Traditionalist Country?" "Too Country For YOU, Buddy?" (Not you, Buddy. g) Just WONDERING. Seems like an awful lot of country-type music falls through the cracks between mainstream radio and the UT/No Depression camp. --Cheryl Cline P.S.: Coming Soon: Boomers and Gen X, Tailbusters and Teenagers: Pfui. Plus! Reactions Arising From Assorted Buttons Being Pushed; and Chips Residing on Shoulders Reactivated and Proving Troublesome. (Later, though. After lunch. After work. Maybe Monday. g)
Re: A Question
Cheryl Cline wrote:
What DO we call this stuff?
I know you're being semi-sarcastic but: Having a country influence and
not being on country radio doesn't seem to me to make this stuff all
of a genre, even though the same people will often like most of it.
"Rootsy stuff" usually does in conversation. It'd behoove writers to
call things by more specific and evocative terms. The Old 97s should
be called "Dallas Calling pop-punk roots" while Dale Watson should be
called "stubbornly retrograde hard country," the Geraldine Fibbers
should be called "AIDS-era sonic twang," etc. etc. Delineating the
relationship to the alt-country media/marketing/social-scene should be
done in a separate sentence. ("Tweedy hates being called alt-country,
even though most everyone blames him for the movement;" "Hadacol is a
bit of an alt-country bandwagon band"; "Don Walser isn't quite sure
what the kids mean by alt-country.")
All in the spirit of your rules-for-critics.
Cheryl also wrote:
P.S.: Coming Soon: Boomers and Gen X, Tailbusters and Teenagers: Pfui.
Um, just to forestall being torn to well-chewed chunks by the sharp
incisors of the Cline wit - and knowing that I was waxing purple and
puffy in some of my previous contributions to this - I would like to
state for the record that generational distinctions only have very
very general application and that one's place in cultural chronology
is no more or less important than one's place in cultural geography,
gender, race, class and smarts, among other elements of life. *Of
course* age has no necessary relation to, for instance, being a
utopian hippie, or a cynical slacker, or whatever. These are all
contingent generalities.
I was addressing demographics in the frame of Jake's essay, but I too
hated the Gen-X shit when it was coming down the pipe fast and furious
in the early nineties. However: in retrospect, I have to say the best
of the commentary it generated was more accurate than I wanted to
admit. And I don't think it's foolish to say that the particular
cultural moment you grew up in, along with the economic conditions and
prevailing politics, is an important influence on who you become. We
don't question that when we talk about people who grew up in the
Depression and in the Jazz Age, so it seems fair to speculate about it
in terms of the eighties boom, the eighties-nineties recession, David
Letterman and grunge.
Any overblown claims of explanatory power are hereby dampened down.
But I'd still like to hear what Cheryl thinks.
Carl W.
Patsy Montana question
Hey all, time to pick your brains again. I know that Patsy Montana's I Want To Be A Cowboy's Sweetheart was based upon Stuart Hamblen's Texas Plains, and I know that before she adapted that song's melody and content for Sweetheart in 1934 she had been singing it as Montana Plains for quite some time. She may have even recorded it that way (is that true?). What I want to know though is, when she sang Montana Plains, did she just change Texas to Montana or did she change any of Hamblen's other words too??? Off list answers welcome if this is too boring... Thanks. --david cantwell
Weir/Hanson post question
hey, I meant to save that posting on Hanson appearing with Bob Weir but I didn't. (that did appear here, didn't it?) could someone resend it to me or tell me where I could find it? (but don't tell me "where to go") thanks, MichaelBerick
CMT (vomit content) / Twangburgh Question
First off, I'm at The Kettles (pet name for my parents' house) while they're on vacation, doing laundry and stuff there, and flipping cable channels around, and CMT's Delivery Room is on. UNGH! There's this video of a song "Single White Female" (I didn't even bother to check the artist) with the singer(s) on a bus flaunting their braless chests and tight behinds around. My God, Country Spice Girl World. I'm sorry, but I'm no longer a sexually repressed 16 year old into MTV erotica (I'm now a sexually repressed 34 year old into yanking the strings off my Telecaster at the end of a set). Next scan, and the program's still on, this time with Shania Twain (no relation to Mark, Thank God) doing her latest, and the video concept is a ripoff of the Robert Palmer "Addicted To Love" video. Musical appendix burst. And people ask me when they go into my basement recording studio why I have a picture of Shania with the red circle/slash traffic symbol over it. All of the meals that I ate on the Gravel Train mini-tour are now coming back to haunt me bowelly. Now the Pittsburgh/Twangburgh question: Who was the guy that introduced the bands at the Rosebud on Friday night. It's bene bugging me for a while, he just looked like a reject from the Broadway cast of "Grease". Mitch Matthews Gravel Twain (oops, see what happens when I get worked up), I mean, Train/Sunken Road
Re: CMT (vomit content) / Twangburgh Question
Mitch asks: Now the Pittsburgh/Twangburgh question: Who was the guy that introduced the bands at the Rosebud on Friday night. It's bene bugging me for a while, he just looked like a reject from the Broadway cast of "Grease". That adorable reject was the amazing Mike Divine of Hillbilly Varmint, King Dapper and now Ukelele UK fame. (a band with 4 ukeleles and a clarinet) from the lovely state of Ohio and the ever fertile ground for strangeness, the Akron/Canton area. Miss Stephanie
Re: CMT (vomit content) / Twangburgh Question
Miss Stephanie cites: the lovely state of Ohio and the ever fertile ground for strangeness, the Akron/Canton area. For those who know me, this explains a heck of a lot about my childhood. g Hey, that reminds me, I still haven't listened to that Hillbilly Varmint CD. Mike Divine himself told me it was unlistenable, so I, um, put it aside. --Jamie S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wavetech.net/~swedberg http://www.usinternet.com/users/ndteegarden/bheaters
Re: CMT (vomit content) / Twangburgh Question
Jaime sez: For those who know me, this explains a heck of a lot about my childhood. g Hey, that reminds me, I still haven't listened to that Hillbilly Varmint CD. Mike Divine himself told me it was unlistenable, so I, um, put it aside. Jaime- Don't listen to him! The man makes his living selling rubber novelties. Get that Varmints' CD on right now! How can you go wrong with 31 songs on a single disc? Hits such as "Pork Rinds and Moonshine", "Grandma's Dead", and "(I Got An) Itchy Pussy" don't come along everyday. We're all hoping that Mike and Julia will moving to Pittsburgh soon. The fun will never stop. Tom Moran
RE: Pronunciation question
Hi, I've always thought best to go for dyne, if only not to confuse them with the British eighties Hi-NRG singer Hazel Dean who recorded the god-awful "Searchin' ( I gotta find a Man )" Regards, Warren Owen ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) ** The Alt Country Tab Page is at www.altcountry.freeserve.co.uk ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Shane S. Rhyne Sent: 26 February 1999 14:52 To: passenger side Subject: Pronunciation question Howdy, I'm probably going to play this band on "Fringe" this weekend and would like very much not to mangle the pronunciation of their name. So, which is it? "Hazel-dean" or "Hazel-dyne" Thanks in advance for your kind assistance. Take care, Shane Rhyne Knoxville, TN [EMAIL PROTECTED] NP: Hazeldine, Orphans
RE: Merle question
-Original Message- Stuart Munro [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I'm expecting an easier drive to the Lowell show in April. Me too (already got my tickets). Drinks beforehand at Smithwick's Stuart? rebecca
Pronunciation question
Howdy, I'm probably going to play this band on "Fringe" this weekend and would like very much not to mangle the pronunciation of their name. So, which is it? "Hazel-dean" or "Hazel-dyne" Thanks in advance for your kind assistance. Take care, Shane Rhyne Knoxville, TN [EMAIL PROTECTED] NP: Hazeldine, Orphans
Re: Pronunciation question
"Hazel-dyne" "Hazel-dyne" "Hazel-dyne" "Hazel-dyne" "Hazel-dyne" -- From: "Shane S. Rhyne" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "passenger side" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pronunciation question Date: Fri, Feb 26, 1999, 8:52 AM Howdy, I'm probably going to play this band on "Fringe" this weekend and would like very much not to mangle the pronunciation of their name. So, which is it? "Hazel-dean" or "Hazel-dyne" Thanks in advance for your kind assistance. Take care, Shane Rhyne Knoxville, TN [EMAIL PROTECTED] NP: Hazeldine, Orphans
Merle question
Hello. I bought a Merle Haggard box set a few months ago and have greatly enjoyed it. I recently saw in the Globe that he is coming to the Boston area in a couple of months and am wondering if he is worth going to see. What do you guys think? Anyone seen him recently? Would I be wasting my time/money? Thanks for any and all feedback, rebecca
RE: Merle question
I bought a Merle Haggard box set a few months ago and have greatly enjoyed it. I recently saw in the Globe that he is coming to the Boston area in a couple of months and am wondering if he is worth going to see. Yes. He's worth going to see if he isn't doing anything but scratching his ass, but in fact the last two times I've seen him he's put on a fine show. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/
RE: Merle question
Kat - I can't remember exactly (it was in last Sunday's Globe, I believe) but for some reason I think it's either in Worcester, MA or Lowell, MA sometime in April. I will look closely at this Sunday's paper and let you know the details. Thanks for the ringing endorsement. I will most definitely be there! hopefully seeing you there, rebecca Rebecca - Where in the Boston area will Merle be playing and when? I live in CT so that would not be far for me to travel. Merle is awesome in concert!!! And if you get a chance to meet him you will find out he is a really nice person as well!!! He's concerts are worth more than any money you will spend and you could not find a better way to spend your time - A lifelong memory. Go see for yourself and you won't be sorry. Kat
RE: Merle question
Blah blah Merle Haggard blah blah Boston blah blah wondering if he is worth going to see blah blah worth going to see if he isn't doing anything but scratching his ass blah blah fine show. I'd second what Jon says about him - he's an American treasure. Watching Merle Haggard in concert should be a required step for high school graduation, in my opinion. -B "or at least extra credit" B-
Re: Merle question
Kat et al. Info from Ticketmaster WEB site: LOWELL MEMORIAL AUD BIG WORLD PRODUCTIONS PRESENTS MERLE HAGGARD WTHE DON CAMPBELL BAND SUN APR 18, 1999 7:00PM Internet Onsale: Jan 8 1998 at 11:00AM Venue: LOWELL MEMORIAL AUDITORIUM Primary Act: MERLE HAGGARD Location: LOWELL, MA Date and Time: Apr 18 1999 7:00PM Price: $24.50 - $30.50 Charge-By-Phone #: 617-931-2000 K.
Re: Merle question
Rebecca writes: I bought a Merle Haggard box set a few months ago and have greatly enjoyed it. I recently saw in the Globe that he is coming to the Boston area in a couple of months and am wondering if he is worth going to see. What do you guys think? Anyone seen him recently? Would I be wasting my time/money? Thanks for any and all feedback, rebecca Well, I saw him up in Concord, New Hampshire in June and thought it was a terrific show. The show was primarily a hits package, though he pulled out a couple of Bob Wills songs, too. Merle is in fine voice and has a top-notch band. Well worth the time and money. --Jon Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wollaston, Massachusetts
Re: Merle question
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 Rebecca wrote: I bought a Merle Haggard box set a few months ago and have greatly enjoyed it. I recently saw in the Globe that he is coming to the Boston area in a couple of months and am wondering if he is worth going to see. What do you guys think? Anyone seen him recently? Would I be wasting my time/money? A year and a half ago, Rebecca, Bostonian Stuart Munro and I went to NYC (he drove the whole distance both ways) to see Merle at Tramp's. That's, what, 9 hours of driving (and his car was literally falling apart on the return trip) for 75 minutes of Merle. Neither of us felt cheated. (Of course, it was easier for me.) I can't imagine you'd enjoy it any less, but even if you did, it beats not going and wondering. Or, worse, not going and then hearing later how good it was. Bob
RE: Merle question
Yeh, Merle's an icon and you have to see all your heroes atleast once BUT when I saw him at the Birchmere in Alexandria, VA last year (a birthday present from my girlfriend), he and his band didn't exactly knock themselves out. They played for all of about an hour and the tickets were $35 bucks! What a gyp. Still, he sounded great for that hour... --Slonedog
Re: Merle question
In a message dated 2/24/99 2:14:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In Regards to Merle if he is worth going to see. What do you guys think? Anyone seen him recently? Would I be wasting my time/money? Rebecca, you have go to be kidding. Go, buy a ticket now. Tell all your friends.
Re: Bookstore gig question
Tom Mohr wrote: Covivant and I were in the Borders in OakBrook IL this morning, and I happened to notice a sign taped up by the cash register, which read something like this: Attention All Cashiers Performers are contractually entitled to free coffee, tea, and soft drinks. NO FOOD. This reminds me of when we have done things at swanky hotels and they come up to us and ask us to use the service entrance to load in, obviously because they don't want us mingling with the guests. Some things never change... -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Bookstore gig question
Cheryl Cline wrote: Okay, here's a question: I am now the proud part-owner of a very cool used bookshop. We want to do some in-store music thangs now and then. What I need to know is, how much do you guys out there charge for this sort of thing? First of all, congratulations and much success! Second, when we do in-stores it is generally for free since it is to promote a record. sometimes at Borders they give us each a gift certificate, but I think this is at the whim of the person running the promotion. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Re: Bookstore gig question
Joe Gracey wrote: Second, when we do in-stores it is generally for free since it is to promote a record. sometimes at Borders they give us each a gift certificate, but I think this is at the whim of the person running the promotion. Also depends on whether they are selling your product or whether you are...if they order from the distributor and sell them they may pay you a little something in the way of cash or gift certificate. If you bring your own product they rarely even give the gift certificate. Sarah
Re: Bookstore gig question
Joe Gracey wrote: Second, when we do in-stores it is generally for free since it is to promote a record. sometimes at Borders they give us each a gift certificate, but I think this is at the whim of the person running the promotion. Covivant and I were in the Borders in OakBrook IL this morning, and I happened to notice a sign taped up by the cash register, which read something like this: Attention All Cashiers Performers are contractually entitled to free coffee, tea, and soft drinks. NO FOOD. -- Tom Mohr at the office: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] np: ringing in my ears after last night's rather loud performance by Dave Alvin The Guilty Men (don't know if they had to pay for the Budweiser they were drinking)
Bookstore gig question
Okay, here's a question: I am now the proud part-owner of a very cool used bookshop. We want to do some in-store music thangs now and then. What I need to know is, how much do you guys out there charge for this sort of thing? Details are still being hashed out, but there seems to be two main kinds of gig we're talking about. One: inside the store, acoustic, probably weekday afternoons (the ever-popular "noon concert" is a possibility), maybe afternoon weekends. The other would definitely be weekends, outside the store, electric or acoustic, in tandem with other events by other stores. Little tiny mini-festival kinda deal. Summertime stuff. Besides a fee, you can of course bring your merch. Food is a likely possiblility -- just don't expect squirrel brains. Extra barter for books or records can be negotiated. We can set up a display of your CDs ahead of time with a promo poster and feature it on the "Now Playing" rack as often as we can stand. 8-) Etc. But, how much $$? And does the fee go up on weekends? Evenings? I've never done this before, so clue me in to what's standard, expected, etc. Lastly but not leastly, what about ASCAP fees? Thanks much, --Cheryl Cline P.S.: Check out the Diablo Books website at http://www.diablo-books.com P.P.S.: Check it out again next week after my "Odd Volumes" column starts!
Re: Bookstore gig question
Our experience with in-stores (record or book -- we've done both) is that they're really more of a promo for a bigger gig in the area, maybe later that night or the next day. As such, we generally don't get paid. Not officially, anyway. Usually the manager will slip each band member a nice gift certificate, which is genuinely appreciated... Generally it's a 25 - 30 minute set. Owen Okay, here's a question: I am now the proud part-owner of a very cool used bookshop. We want to do some in-store music thangs now and then. What I need to know is, how much do you guys out there charge for this sort of thing? Details are still being hashed out, but there seems to be two main kinds of gig we're talking about. One: inside the store, acoustic, probably weekday afternoons (the ever-popular "noon concert" is a possibility), maybe afternoon weekends. The other would definitely be weekends, outside the store, electric or acoustic, in tandem with other events by other stores. Little tiny mini-festival kinda deal. Summertime stuff. Besides a fee, you can of course bring your merch. Food is a likely possiblility -- just don't expect squirrel brains. Extra barter for books or records can be negotiated. We can set up a display of your CDs ahead of time with a promo poster and feature it on the "Now Playing" rack as often as we can stand. 8-) Etc. But, how much $$? And does the fee go up on weekends? Evenings? I've never done this before, so clue me in to what's standard, expected, etc. Lastly but not leastly, what about ASCAP fees? Thanks much, --Cheryl Cline P.S.: Check out the Diablo Books website at http://www.diablo-books.com P.P.S.: Check it out again next week after my "Odd Volumes" column starts!
Re: Bookstore gig question
Hey Cheryl, Hi there ho there, Kip here. In answer to your question...well, I dunno. How's this for an answer. If it's just a acoustic thing, I'd say $25 and a meal would suffice. If it's a whole band and it's a weekend, well...shoot for $50. Maybe $60. It all depends on 1) how experienced the band is and 2) what they willing to do. Dinner and/or a gift certificate go a long way though with many of us (I didn't tell you that, it's a sworn secret of the trade). Kip P.S. Hey, we haven't forgotten about the last $1,000 we owe you. Whenever you need it, you let us know. We're about to spend some pretty serious dough to incorporate as a not-for-profit entity but you come first if you need it now!
Re: Bookstore gig question
Oh yes! He shoots, he scores, he sends a private e-mail to the whole friggin' list! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go meet the rest of the Twang Gang out behind the shed... Kip
Re: Bookstore gig question
Cheryl, You might want to call up Amoeba Records in San Francisco and chat with Joe Goldmark, or whoever it is at the Amoeba Records who handles booking in-store appearances. They have showcased just in this month acts ranging from the Bad Livers to Phranc (The All-American Jewish Lesbian Folksinger) to Huun-Huur-Tu to Paula Frazer of Tarnation. (415) 831-1200 or http://www.amoebarecords.com/ - and congratulations on the new venture! -B "not quite a personal message to the list" B-
Re: Bookstore gig question
Addendum to Brad's thoughtful post: Kara handles the instores at Amoeba SF... Rock on, Owen Cheryl, You might want to call up Amoeba Records in San Francisco and chat with Joe Goldmark, or whoever it is at the Amoeba Records who handles booking in-store appearances. They have showcased just in this month acts ranging from the Bad Livers to Phranc (The All-American Jewish Lesbian Folksinger) to Huun-Huur-Tu to Paula Frazer of Tarnation. (415) 831-1200 or http://www.amoebarecords.com/ - and congratulations on the new venture! -B "not quite a personal message to the list" B-
Re: Bookstore gig question
Cheryl Cline wrote: I am now the proud part-owner of a very cool used bookshop. We want to do some in-store music thangs now and then. Cheryl, You might also want to check with Marquetta Herring who keeps the Townes Van Zandt web site and the Texas Music Kitchen "for the sake of the song." Marq ownes a "very cool" used bookstore in Dallas, and they do music/book readings etc. upstairs which Vince will be doing 12 March. Tell her I sent you if you get in touch. TX Music Kitchen http://www.lonestarwebstation.com/txmusdex.html Townes site: http://www.lonestarwebstation.com/txmusdex.html Email is: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Dumb Monroe question
... Del McCoury co. do "Get Down On Your Knees and Pray," but it wasn't until seeing it on McCoury's new album that I learned it to be a Bill Monroe song. D'oh. I've heard quite a few, but nowhere even close to all, of Monroe's recordings. Can anyone please suggest where I might find his version of the song? It does appear on "Bill Monroe - Bluegrass 1950-1958". It's a Bear Family compilation (pretty pricey), 4 disc set. If you just want to hear the song, maybe you could find this set at your library (?). I don't know where else it appears on previous records, discs, etc; Tera
Another Richard Bennett question
-- From: Jon Weisberger[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 9:29 PM To: passenger side Subject: RE: Richard Bennett question I read a good review of this CD: Richard Bennett, "Walking Down the Line" (Rebel Records) Is this the same Richard Bennett who used to produce Steve Earle and Marty Stuart? Good question. The answer is no, it's a different one, OK, here's another question - I assume that the Richard Bennett who produced Earle and Stuart is the same one that produced the first Kim Richey release. Does that Richard Bennett have any recordings of his own?
RE: Rank the Hank question
Barry Mazor nailed part of what makes Snow so enjoyable for me, and the perceptive comment about Snow being a very "white" singer explains part of what made his stuff so interesting to me when I discovered him, along about 1971, when I came across a copy of his Travellin' Blues album, a collection of songs (some or all of which may have been previously released) from country music's early days, notably Jimmie Rodgers numbers. Snow had a lot of Rodgers to him, both the sentimental trash (-per Mr. Dylan) side and the blues side, too. Now, Jimmie Rodgers' blues stuff often has that straight, non-note-bending "white" side to it around the 3rd (less so around the 7th), but Snow's almost always has it, and to someone like me, who had listened to a lot of Black blues, it was fascinating how the rhythms were changed and the bends straightened out. Barry mentions his nasality, but what has always struck me more is his precise enunciation, a real model of clarity like Hank Thompson's. You get every damn syllable with these Hanks, with nary a "what was that line?" in their thousands of combined recordings. That's my idea of serving the song g. BTW, I was the one who expressed a preference for Hank Snow over Hank Williams, and I was pretty careful to qualify it in terms of simple enjoyment. I wouldn't care to make a case that he's more important or better; I just find that if I'm going to go on a Hank listening jag, it's more likely to be Snow or Thompson than the Senior guy. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ Website revised 2/1/99
RE: Rank the Hank question
...part of what made his stuff so interesting to me .. Snow had a lot of Rodgers to him,...Now, Jimmie Rodgers' blues stuff often has that straight, non-note-bending "white" side to it around the 3rd (less so around the 7th), but Snow's almost always has it, and to someone like me, who had listened to a lot of Black blues, it was fascinating how the rhythms were changed and the bends straightened out. Jon Yeah, that's very much like my experience also--fascinated..and fascinated that it worked... There was also that recognition that with the Rodgers blues take, "Well, I could sing THAT, comfortably, without sounding like I'm trying to be something I'm not...I could be at home with that"-(Since I AM, of course, not a black fieldhand , but a singing brakeman from Mississippi.!..) -- I suspect that a reaction something very much like that was part of the impact that Rodgers' music had on a lot of country singers--certainly bigtime fan/followers like Snow and Tubb (and Autry Cliff Carlisle, etc. and some day Merle Haggard)...this was a doable way--as well as a really potent way. As a singer, I'd take Rodgers over Snow for sure--but then, Snow probably would too! Barry
Re: songs of love and hate (was Re: Hank question)
Personal breakup fave: "Will Your Lawyer Talk To God For You?" - Kitty Wells
Re: Rank the Hank question
You know, I don't listen to a lot of Hank W. myself because, frankly-in what can only be considered a pretty high compliment-he just scares the hell out of me. Dan Bentele
Re: Hank question
Joe Gracey wrote; son, I was playing Hank Snow records on the radio in 1966 when he was still a star, and I couldn't stand him then, either. -Hank Snow has a reputation of being a cantankerous old bastard, but he made enough good stuff that warrants a listen. "Music Makin' Mama from Memphis" is one hell of a song and his guitar work is spectacular. He was older than both the other Hanks and hence his listening patterns were based on Jimmie Rodgers and Canada's other early superstar, Wilf Carter (aka Montana Slim). He also had things pretty tough and whilst I wouldn't recommend his autobiography in its entirety ( he gives himself the ability to move mountains in later chapters) the early part is darn good. He tells of his first ever recording session in the mid 30s when he had to travel 2 1/2 days to get there, recorded two songs and then heard nothing for six months. Hank's mid 60s recordings are pretty solid and if the "tragic" song is your cup of tea I say I'd rate him above Hank Williams and other great exponents of the art such as Porter Wagoner. But I dare say if you dared to make a reference to his "barely detectable" toupe in his presence you'd be banished to the Canadian wilds quicker than you could blink. Give Clarence a bit of a listen...at least the aforementioned "MMM from M" and "I've Been Everywhere", "Golden Rocket" etc. Steve Reid- ~
Richard Bennett question
I read a good review of this CD: Richard Bennett, "Walking Down the Line" (Rebel Records) Is this the same Richard Bennett who used to produce Steve Earle and Marty Stuart? Just wondering, as THAT Richard Bennett is one of my all-time favorite guitarists. jim
RE: Hank question
You REALLY don't like him, do you? Don't sugar coat it for me, I can take it. All the best, Junior -- From: Joe Gracey[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 4 February 1999 4:08 To: passenger side Subject: Re: Hank question "Walker, Jason" wrote: Oh, yeah - he also broke Elvis Presley. Snow's manager was of course Colonel Tom Parker. I know Snow isn't to everyone's taste but I'm just biased since I was brought up listening to his music through my dad. At least say you'll give him a try Joe. Please? Junior ;-) son, I was playing Hank Snow records on the radio in 1966 when he was still a star, and I couldn't stand him then, either. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
RE: Hank question
Amen to that, Steve - his toupe is a work of art as is his house, I hear. Junior -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 4 February 1999 6:49 To: passenger side Subject: Re: Hank question Joe Gracey wrote; son, I was playing Hank Snow records on the radio in 1966 when he was still a star, and I couldn't stand him then, either. -Hank Snow has a reputation of being a cantankerous old bastard, but he made enough good stuff that warrants a listen. "Music Makin' Mama from Memphis" is one hell of a song and his guitar work is spectacular. He was older than both the other Hanks and hence his listening patterns were based on Jimmie Rodgers and Canada's other early superstar, Wilf Carter (aka Montana Slim). He also had things pretty tough and whilst I wouldn't recommend his autobiography in its entirety ( he gives himself the ability to move mountains in later chapters) the early part is darn good. He tells of his first ever recording session in the mid 30s when he had to travel 2 1/2 days to get there, recorded two songs and then heard nothing for six months. Hank's mid 60s recordings are pretty solid and if the "tragic" song is your cup of tea I say I'd rate him above Hank Williams and other great exponents of the art such as Porter Wagoner. But I dare say if you dared to make a reference to his "barely detectable" toupe in his presence you'd be banished to the Canadian wilds quicker than you could blink. Give Clarence a bit of a listen...at least the aforementioned "MMM from M" and "I've Been Everywhere", "Golden Rocket" etc. Steve Reid- ~
Re: Hank question
"Walker, Jason" wrote: You REALLY don't like him, do you? Don't sugar coat it for me, I can take it. All the best, Junior Actually, I do like him in sort of the same way you like a goofy old uncle who wears a terrible toupee and gets all worked up about weird stuff. See, Hank was so weird (he wore pink nudie suits, a bowtie, and a really terrible rug and got on all of these off the wall soapboxes from time to time) that he was impossible to take seriously. Obviously the reason he was a star was because of his great voice, his songwriting talent (and song choosing talent), and last but not least because he cultivated the Opry establishment, which I do not begrudge him. In fact, I was just playing some of his songs today with Alvin Crow and Freddie Powers and marveling at how much fun they are to play. I almost think of him as a footnote or something, but not unkindly. One reason I'm slightly grumpy about him is that later in life he became very vociferous about his religion and his distaste for all of us longhaired hippie savages who were ruining country music. Then, he did a sudden about-face and held a press conference in which he announced that since he couldn't beat this new wave of progressive country music, he would join it. This was greeted with awe and astononishment since he was about 200 years old and couldn't make a progressive country record to save his life, but Willie invited him to one of his big wing-dings in Houston and he was just pretty damn weird. I dunno, I think I get him all mixed up in my mind with Roy Acuff and Richard Nixon, or something, that whole era of politics and music. Musically, he's pretty dang good. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
Hank question
Ha, I mean Hank Thompson. I was listening this morning to "We've Gone Too Far," on the Capitol Collector's Series CD, and caught what sure sounded like a Dale Potter lick on the fiddle break, but I don't know that Potter ever recorded with Thompson, at least not that early (1954), and I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly, that Thompson was recording out west. So now I'm really curious as to who the fiddler was; does anyone have the Thompson boxed set to check it out? Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ Website revised 2/1/99
Re: Hank question
At 09:15 AM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: Ha, I mean Hank Thompson. I was listening this morning to "We've Gone Too Far," on the Capitol Collector's Series CD, and caught what sure sounded like a Dale Potter lick on the fiddle break, but I don't know that Potter ever recorded with Thompson, at least not that early (1954), and I was under the impression, perhaps wrongly, that Thompson was recording out west. So now I'm really curious as to who the fiddler was; does anyone have the Thompson boxed set to check it out? Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ Website revised 2/1/99 I can't help you, but maybe you can help me. I love the Vintage Collection of Hank Thompson, and have been thinking of buying the Capitol Collector's CD from BMG Music Club. But since it is out of print everywhere else, I can't get a track list. I don't want to but it if it overlaps the Vintage CD too much, so if you could provide a track list or, if you have both, just tell me the # of tracks shared by both CDs. Thanks
RE: Hank question
Here's the track listings for the RCA Essential Hank Snow compilation. I'd say it looks like a solid Snow primer. Unfortunately, unlike all the other American major-label country music reissue series, RCA charges full price for their Essential comps (and generally does a shoddier job to boot). Still, this looks like a good 'un.--don 01. Rhumba Boogie 02. I'm Movin' On 03. The Golden Rocket 04. Unwanted Sign Upon Your Heart 05. Music Makin' Mama From Memphis 06. The Gold Rush Is Over 07. I Don't Hurt Anymore 08. (Now And Then, There's) A Fool Such As I 09. The Gal Who Invented Kissin' 10. I Went To Your Wedding 11. Would You Mind 12. Lady's Man 13. Yellow Roses 14. Miller's Cave 15. Beggar To A King 16. I've Been Everywhere 17. Ninety Miles An Hour 18. Let Me Go, Lover 19. The Wishing Well 20. Hello Love On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, you mention Hank Snow, an artist I'd love to buy a good compilation of. Can you recommend one? Kip
songs of love and hate (was Re: Hank question)
Some of the Hank Snow songs Don mentioned got me to thinking. Valentine's Day is coming up, and I'm doing my annual love songs and breakup songs shows in the next couple of weeks. Anyone have favorites from either camp? Depending on our library, I'm open to requests. Carl Z.
RE: Hank question
Jon, you mention Hank Snow, an artist I'd love to buy a good compilation of. Can you recommend one? The Bombmeister is right that The Essential is a decent collection and that you'll probably have to pay full price for it. There's another widely available collection, Snow Country (Pair) that's budget-priced, and there's a nominally out-of-print collection called I'm Movin' On and Other Great Country Hits that can usually be scared up somewhere or other (especially via BMG's music club), also budget-priced, and with only 2 duplicates from Snow Country. Between the two of them, just about all of Essential is covered, plus a bunch more. Best bang for the buck, then, is the I'm Movin' On/Snow Country combo (40 cuts, c. $22); best single-disc overview is The Essential (20 cuts, c. $15). If you're really tight on dough and you don't care so much about having the hits, Snow Country (20 cuts, c. $11) is o.k. on its own - not that there aren't plenty of hits on it, but not of the same order as on the Essential. Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ Website revised 2/1/99
Re: songs of love and hate (was Re: Hank question)
Speaking of Hank S. - "Married by the Bible, Divorced by the Law" would be good for both shows. Heh, heh. Erin At 12:40 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: Some of the Hank Snow songs Don mentioned got me to thinking. Valentine's Day is coming up, and I'm doing my annual love songs and breakup songs shows in the next couple of weeks. Anyone have favorites from either camp? Depending on our library, I'm open to requests. Carl Z.
RE: songs of love and hate (was Re: Hank question)
Erin says: Speaking of Hank S. - "Married by the Bible, Divorced by the Law" would be good for both shows. Heh, heh. Which is on Snow Country, but not on The Essential. On the other hand, "I Went To Your Wedding" is on The Essential, but not the 2 CDs I recommended, and it's another one you ought to think about, Carl: "Your mother was crying, your father was crying And I was crying too..." Jon Weisberger Kenton County, KY [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.fuse.net/jonweisberger/ Website revised 2/1/99
Re: songs of love and hate (was Re: Hank question)
I'll take any suggestions as well for the Hot, Sweet and Sour Valentine's Day Show. Jamie Carl Abraham Zimring wrote: Some of the Hank Snow songs Don mentioned got me to thinking. Valentine's Day is coming up, and I'm doing my annual love songs and breakup songs shows in the next couple of weeks. Anyone have favorites from either camp? Depending on our library, I'm open to requests. Carl Z.
Re: Hank question
Jon Weisberger wrote: I realize I'm probably in the minority on this, but for sheer enjoyment, I'll take Hank Thompson over Hank Williams just about any day. Hank Snow, too, for that matter. Ain't taste a wonderful thing? Well, any chance to agree with Jon shouldn't be missed. g Um, me too, on Hank Thompson anyhow. Something about his smooth blend of honky-tonk and swing hits a very sweet spot for me. Of course, it's like "who's better, Hank Aaron or Willie Mays". They can both play for me. gI've only got that RCA Hank Snow comp, so I shouldn't say much, other'n I like that disc just fine. b.s.
Re: songs of love and hate (was Re: Hank question)
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 2-Feb-99 RE: songs of love and hate .. by "Jon Weisberger"@fuse.ne Erin says: Speaking of Hank S. - "Married by the Bible, Divorced by the Law" would be good for both shows. Heh, heh. Which is on Snow Country, but not on The Essential. On the other hand, "I Went To Your Wedding" is on The Essential, but not the 2 CDs I recommended, and it's another one you ought to think about, Carl: "Your mother was crying, your father was crying And I was crying too..." Points taken. Note to self: Mark these down as "Songs that will not be played at my wedding". Carl Z.
RE: Hank question
If I was to say that your description of him as a "not particularly charismatic performer" was WAY OFF I'd, in fact, be kidding myself. You are of course quite right. And he isn't the greatest country singer ever but I guess I just have a soft spot for him. On the other hand, were we to talk about the relative merits of the likes of Ernest Tubb or George Jones for pure talent...but I won't start that thread off again. Best regards, junior -Original Message- From: Joe Gracey [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 3 February 1999 9:26 To: passenger side Subject: Re: Hank question "Walker, Jason" wrote: Joe, I have to say that I take great exception to your assessment of Hank Snow as a mediocre talent. Far from it - this country music legend overcame a number of obstacles - being very much an outsider to the Grand Ole Opry as a Canadian, he none the less spent years travelling the United States to break in to the exclusive country music scene. His songs are an odd mixture of pathos, bathos and weird humour not to mention his phenomenal lead guitar skills - like Hank Thompson he played his own lead breaks. He recorded a number of award-winning instrumental albums with none other than Chet Atkins, who says that he thinks Snow is one of the most distinctive lead guitarists he's ever heard. IMO, a mediocre talent he definitely is not. Yeah, he could play the guitar, and I should have credited him for that. However, I honestly think he is the perfect example of a rather passionless and not particularly charismatic performer who was supported by the Opry machine all out of proportion to his worth. I realize this is purely a matter of taste. -- Joe Gracey President-For-Life, Jackalope Records http://www.kimmierhodes.com
