Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

I hope every time I say something ambiguous it doesn't make somebody shove
his or her head up there. I'd feel even worse. I'm not NITTO spokesman,
just a customer, but I've been there 20 times or more (usually when I
worked at Bstone) and I know the deal there, and before NITTO'd come up
with a list, they'd have to test all those stems, and it would be
exhausting and 'thpenthive and -- I can't see that happening. Their point
is just that as bars get wider they impose more leverage on the stem, and
== like that.

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:53 AM John Phillips  wrote:

> Grant, I probably have my head up my butt, but I don't think that last
> post meant what you think it meant.
>
> Erik was writing about a new NITTO-made drop bar, and was not criticizing
> or distorting what you had previously said about wide non-NITTO-made drop
> bars. On the other hand, it would be more-than-very-helpful if Crust &
> NITTO specified what kind of stems should be, and what stems should NOT be,
> used with this new NITTO-Crust collaboration drop bar, especially if the
> rider is running a bike bag on single track.
>
> But then again, I probably have my head up my butt: it is awfully dark &
> lonely in here.
>
> John
>
> On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 7:55:33 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> NITTO sez the wider bars mean the stem wll brake first, and they'd rather
>> the bar breaks first. We asked. We lead the way w ith 46cm, then 48cm. We
>> asked for (and got a prototype of) a 51cm, but that turned out to be a
>> stem-braker. It's cool that other makers do it, but we're sticking with
>> ultra-conservative NITTO. THere is probably a combo that "works"--31.8
>> clamp? CrMo stem? But we're not gonna be the ones to beg NITTO to lower its
>> standards, and please, no need to turn that around and say Grant says the
>> wider bars are dangerous or irresponsible. That's not what's going on, I'm
>> just saying why NItto, at this point, won't. THanks.
>> G
>>
>> On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 1:47 PM Erik Wright  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guessing many of y'all have seen this:
>>> https://crustbikes.com/products/nitto-x-crust-2/
>>>
>>> Lots of folks were mentioning the Towel Rack bar in this thread (26.0
>>> clamp, very wide, not made by Nitto), and this new Crust/Nitto collab looks
>>> to be a middle ground between a Noodle and the Towel Rack. These bars have
>>> a 31.8 clamp, and maybe that's how they're able to meet the rigorous
>>> requirements that Grant outlined.
>>>
>>> Erik, Philly
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4, ctifusion wrote:

 I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love
 them. And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place
 when they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide
 drop bar into production.

 I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.

 Thoughts?

 Brynnar
 Indy

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

NITTO sez the wider bars mean the stem wll brake first, and they'd rather
the bar breaks first. We asked. We lead the way w ith 46cm, then 48cm. We
asked for (and got a prototype of) a 51cm, but that turned out to be a
stem-braker. It's cool that other makers do it, but we're sticking with
ultra-conservative NITTO. THere is probably a combo that "works"--31.8
clamp? CrMo stem? But we're not gonna be the ones to beg NITTO to lower its
standards, and please, no need to turn that around and say Grant says the
wider bars are dangerous or irresponsible. That's not what's going on, I'm
just saying why NItto, at this point, won't. THanks.
G

On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 1:47 PM Erik Wright  wrote:

> I'm guessing many of y'all have seen this:
> https://crustbikes.com/products/nitto-x-crust-2/
>
> Lots of folks were mentioning the Towel Rack bar in this thread (26.0
> clamp, very wide, not made by Nitto), and this new Crust/Nitto collab looks
> to be a middle ground between a Noodle and the Towel Rack. These bars have
> a 31.8 clamp, and maybe that's how they're able to meet the rigorous
> requirements that Grant outlined.
>
> Erik, Philly
>
> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4, ctifusion wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love them.
>> And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place when
>> they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide drop
>> bar into production.
>>
>> I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Brynnar
>> Indy
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

It's squished, tho.

tire compat: it isn't designed for 3.0. just 2.8. In fact, most sub tires
are 2.6. I am pretty sure there are no trails in this part of NorCal that
require or are more fun or safer on a tire bigger than 2.3, at least at the
speeds I ride. the bike seems to fit a 3.0 fine, but that just because we
like wobble/hop room with any tire, and if you that with a 2.8, you get
clearance for 3.0. (it has that)

I am not well-traveled, so any generalizations I make--keep that in mind.
Or even any statements. But the thing is, also, that fire trails are always
kept smooth enough for fire trucks, an logging roads, jeepish roads, cart
roads, and most sub-5,000-ft elevation hiking trails are smooth enough for
2-inch tires (Mark rides Jack Browns on them, and Robert rides 32s..). So,
the fatness you ride depends on how you ride, too.

we're dissecting the samples to make everything perfect, and in some cases
that means going out of manufacturer's specs, something that's never
recommended, but it's one thing to not know the spec and miss it because of
that, and another to know it exactly and what they had in mind when they
say "264mm", and then you see how that affects other things, and sometimes
you have to (it seems, we're thinking) go out of spec to get a better bike.

unfortunately, we can't build and ride yet. we have to modify the fork. a
miscommunication (not our goof, not the fork maker's, either) gave us
too-short steerers. This will be resolved quickly and expensively by late
this week, and we'll be riding, I think, by Friday.

a hiccup with the Silver2 shifters may be resolved, too. we'll know
mid-to-late October. There is a slight but lousy clue and contest about the
bike's name in the Blahg.

G


On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 6:57 PM Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Looks like you could store a mini-pump in the tubular crown.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
> On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 4:28:40 PM UTC-7, ML / SF wrote:
>>
>> From today's newsletter:
>>
>>
>>> Here's the new MTB fork that has us all excited. We'll get the bikes
>>> built up for Interbike late next week. They're looking really fun; check
>>> Grant's Blagh
>>> 
>>> for more updates a little later on.
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

The YouTube style of riding has upped the requirements for bike and fork
testing, but the tests still aren't super reflective of how and why things
break in real life. ALL carbon frames and forks pass the tests, and yet
they continue to fail, because of the brittle nature of it and the
unpredictability of the forces. Airplane makers,. who test a LOT and have
gone ahead with carbon in certain applications, are now backing away. I am
not an airplane maker, but I also don't make up things.
Our testers in Taiwan--who also test bikes for tons of others--have a
fairly low opinion of the tests' ability to predict real actual performance
results. The FIRST generation Appaloosa forks came within 5 percent of
passing the toughest mountain bike test. The testers said, "It will never
break in use, but carbon forks that DO pass will."  We thickened the crown
and blades, anyway, so now--for better or worse--they pass. In real life
they're not any safer, but both are safer than carbon, because of how they
fail.
On any steel fork, if you ride with ear buds and never pay any attention,
you'll miss months of warnings, but eventually the noise or funny movement
will jerk you alert in time to save yourself.
In the carbon vs aluminum test--I'd still rather ride aluminum. It's a more
predictable and less brittle than carbon. You could throw in a cheap steel
fork from granpapa's Huffy, and it wouldn't pass the test, but it would
still be a safer fork, because of how steel fails. Cheap bike steel fails
in  impact and compression even better than good bike steel! But good bike
steel is easily good enough, and wins on other tests.
Many of you have seen our own fork tests. If you haven't, read the
disclaimer on page one, so you don't misunderstand the test.
https://vimeo.com/106021360


On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 10:40 AM, hugh flynn  wrote:

> Never has the phrase "your mileage may vary" had more meaning than in a
> discussion of the failure mode of carbon fiber bike parts...
>
> Hugh "fail gracefully" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 1:38 PM masmojo  wrote:
>
>> Just saying we should be able to have a spirited discussion, be objective
>> and not take things personally.
>>
>> I am posting this link, but I should qualify that I am not trying to make
>> any particular point; just that I was somewhat surprised at the punishment
>> inflicted on  these CF frames. It made me sort of rethink my stance on CF a
>> little. Still, this video prompts a lot of questions in itself. It is
>> notable that when the carbon does fail, it does so spectacularly.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/w5eMMf11uhM
>>
>> I think . . . Well . . . Draw your own conclusions. :-)
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

It honestly wasn't intended as the kind of thing that requires thick skin,
and I'll be careful not to say things that do. Sorry!

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:40 PM, masmojo  wrote:

> Grant, Mr. Masmojo has very thick skin; pick all you want.
> I agree with everything you  said there pretty much.
> It's just that these things are not necessarily cast in stone. I've
> personally seen carbon fiber bars & seat posts fail,  BUT there's so many
> variables involved really, because at the other end of the spectrum I've
> seen jaw dropping videos of CF frames absorbing stresses that would easily
> break any aluminum or steel frame. They are advancing frame building
> techniques all the time and conceivably they could find the solution to the
> weight Vs. durability conundrum.
> I am  not particularly interested in Carbon Fiber, I wouldn't go out of my
> way to get it, but more & more it's almost unavoidable. I don't worry too
> much about the little I have, because it's pretty heavy duty Cycle Cross
> stuff, but at some point I think it'll need replacing; then what? I  don't
> know? Titanium?
>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

SML 27.5
XL 29


On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 11:09 AM, Steven Sweedler 
wrote:

>
> Has the wheel size been announced, 650 B for smaller frames and 700C for
> larger, or is 26” (559) a possiblilty? Steve
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:28 PM Grant Petersen 
> wrote:
>
>> aside from whatever real or imagined benefits there are to riders, the
>> benefits of carbon and threadless to manufacturers are real and as concrete
>> as concrete. Threadless forks eliminate a HUGE ongoing hassle and storage
>> problem of stocking replacements for different sized frames. The fact that
>> it helps manufacturers is a GOOD thing, but *that* is why they were so
>> wholly instantly adopted. Going to carbon fiber piggybacked on that by
>> offering a perceived cool-factor fork that flaunted its material and saved
>> bike manufacturers from having to stock color-matches for their bikes every
>> year. A third benefit to manufacturers is that forks are a PITA to make.
>> There isn't a frame builder in the world who likes making forks (I have not
>> surveyed them all, I've just never heard of one, and the fact that so many
>> offer carbon forks as standard supports this "theory.")  Forks are
>> difficult and intolerant of even slight goofs. If a frame is slightly out
>> of alignment, you'll never know by casual observation (need measuring
>> tools) and it probably won't matter in the ride. (Our frames are aligned
>> during the process of building and checked at the end, and I've watched
>> them do it.)  It depends where it's out of alignment, but if you think most
>> of the bikes in the world are perfectly aligned, o my.   But when a fork is
>> out of alignment, it's way more visually obvious, because the tire gap is
>> different.
>> Any one of the points I'm trying to make--I'm making them quickly and
>> without any nuance or noting other important details in the discussion--but
>> they're honestly fundamentally true. Our Taiwan frame builders farm out the
>> forks. Artisinal custom builders for the most part prefer to (I know there
>> are exceptions).
>> It's easy-er for me here at RIvendell with our relatively low volume to
>> stock crash replacement forks forks, but even when we order two extra per
>> size per color, as models and colors change, it doesn't take too many years
>> to accumulate 200 forks. At Bstone, we had --- thousands? At least a
>> thousand. We tossed them when we closed. I think one of the guys gathered
>> up some MB forks and maybe a few RBs, but basically, they were vamooshed.
>> There's no market for a Regulus brown fork for a 23-inch frame, or any of
>> the others.
>>
>> I'm not picking on masmojo. He (or she?) is right--that stuff can work
>> fine. It's when it doesn't that things get scary, and when you consider
>> that carbon doesn't age well, there's still a good reason to avoid it.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:26 AM, masmojo  wrote:
>>
>>> I certainly don't endorse change for the sake of change, but if
>>> something works,  it's better or solves a problem; I'll embrace it
>>> eventually, maybe begrudgingly, but I will & my enthusiasm & conviction
>>> will grow from there.
>>> I guess about the time I turned 50, I reaffirmed my conviction to keep
>>> my mind open & question any preferences or prejudices I might have.
>>> Didn't like Carbon fiber,  but as these things go, most road bikes these
>>> days have Carbon Fiber forks; so it was kind of forced on me. (I also got
>>> carbon fiber cranks & handlebars in the deal) Well, guess what? They work
>>> fine, better than fine really. Will, I make a point  of buying CF in the
>>> future? Hmm,  I doubt it, but my resistance has been weakened.
>>> Just sayin, there's a reason for everything.
>>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

it may be. you've used a HiteRite?

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 5:36 PM, Belopsky  wrote:

> a good dropper is better.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

You can still get Hite-Rites to fit 26.6 to 27.2 frames. $45 or so, Tommy
Breeze (Joe's son) sells them--I think on eBay.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why wouldn't a dropper post work on a mixte frame?
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
> On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 5:52:45 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>>
>> ( not that a dropper post would be a viable option on this if it indeed
>> goes mixte, so you're safe.  I was really just wondering what you meant.)
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

aside from whatever real or imagined benefits there are to riders, the
benefits of carbon and threadless to manufacturers are real and as concrete
as concrete. Threadless forks eliminate a HUGE ongoing hassle and storage
problem of stocking replacements for different sized frames. The fact that
it helps manufacturers is a GOOD thing, but *that* is why they were so
wholly instantly adopted. Going to carbon fiber piggybacked on that by
offering a perceived cool-factor fork that flaunted its material and saved
bike manufacturers from having to stock color-matches for their bikes every
year. A third benefit to manufacturers is that forks are a PITA to make.
There isn't a frame builder in the world who likes making forks (I have not
surveyed them all, I've just never heard of one, and the fact that so many
offer carbon forks as standard supports this "theory.")  Forks are
difficult and intolerant of even slight goofs. If a frame is slightly out
of alignment, you'll never know by casual observation (need measuring
tools) and it probably won't matter in the ride. (Our frames are aligned
during the process of building and checked at the end, and I've watched
them do it.)  It depends where it's out of alignment, but if you think most
of the bikes in the world are perfectly aligned, o my.   But when a fork is
out of alignment, it's way more visually obvious, because the tire gap is
different.
Any one of the points I'm trying to make--I'm making them quickly and
without any nuance or noting other important details in the discussion--but
they're honestly fundamentally true. Our Taiwan frame builders farm out the
forks. Artisinal custom builders for the most part prefer to (I know there
are exceptions).
It's easy-er for me here at RIvendell with our relatively low volume to
stock crash replacement forks forks, but even when we order two extra per
size per color, as models and colors change, it doesn't take too many years
to accumulate 200 forks. At Bstone, we had --- thousands? At least a
thousand. We tossed them when we closed. I think one of the guys gathered
up some MB forks and maybe a few RBs, but basically, they were vamooshed.
There's no market for a Regulus brown fork for a 23-inch frame, or any of
the others.

I'm not picking on masmojo. He (or she?) is right--that stuff can work
fine. It's when it doesn't that things get scary, and when you consider
that carbon doesn't age well, there's still a good reason to avoid it.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:26 AM, masmojo  wrote:

> I certainly don't endorse change for the sake of change, but if something
> works,  it's better or solves a problem; I'll embrace it eventually, maybe
> begrudgingly, but I will & my enthusiasm & conviction will grow from there.
> I guess about the time I turned 50, I reaffirmed my conviction to keep my
> mind open & question any preferences or prejudices I might have.
> Didn't like Carbon fiber,  but as these things go, most road bikes these
> days have Carbon Fiber forks; so it was kind of forced on me. (I also got
> carbon fiber cranks & handlebars in the deal) Well, guess what? They work
> fine, better than fine really. Will, I make a point  of buying CF in the
> future? Hmm,  I doubt it, but my resistance has been weakened.
> Just sayin, there's a reason for everything.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

A century of threaded headsets and 25 years of threadless suggest they both
work fine. The rest is preference and defense.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Virgil Staphbeard 
wrote:

> Also, the addition of a decaleur or cable hanger in the stack adds to the
> loosening potential ,provided they don't have their own locking potential
> (i.e. Paul Funky Monkey or Mark Guglielmana decaleur). The locknut fails
> to do its job if there is potentially rotating part introduced between
> them.
>
> On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 11:05:06 AM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> The "secret" to properly snugging a threaded headset is to use two
>> wrenches (in the case of a non-Rinko style). The spanner kind goes on the
>> cup flats, and it's really helpful to use the Stein-type (now also made by
>> Park) that's chunky and grabs around about 230 degrees and cannot slip. You
>> lightly overtighten the cup, then countersqueeze the keyed washer with
>> opposing forces on both wrenches. Let me say that if I didn't know exactly
>> what all these words meant, it would seem like a hassle, but it is super
>> easy. Like anything on a bike or in life, it takes a little practice to
>> develop the skill, but so does every mechanical adjustment on your bike.
>> Once you have it down, it takes roughly 20 seconds, maximum. The actually
>> tightening, 4-5 seconds.
>> The PROBLEM is that -- kind of like learning to patch inner tubes or
>> remove and reinstall the rear wheel when all you ride is Schwalbe tires --
>> there's not a lot of opportunity to learn.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 5:59 AM, hugh flynn  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 2:37 PM masmojo  wrote:
>>>

 ...
 Riv, people don't have problems with headsets coming loose!? Wow, I
 wonder what their secret is, I've never owned a bike with a quill stem that
 didn't  eventually need to be tightened. (& I've tried many techniques to
 tighten them so they don't come loose). On the other hand I've never had a
 threadless come loose.
>>>
>>>
>>> Doubt it's Riv specific but in 40+ years and many 1,000's of miles of
>>> cycling with both threadless and threaded headsets, I've never had a
>>> problem with either and have yet to perform a field adjustment either on or
>>> off road.
>>>
>>> Hugh "not a big problem for me" Flynn
>>> Newburyport, MA
>>>
 --
>>> Hugh Flynn
>>> Newburyport, MA
>>>
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

The "secret" to properly snugging a threaded headset is to use two wrenches
(in the case of a non-Rinko style). The spanner kind goes on the cup flats,
and it's really helpful to use the Stein-type (now also made by Park)
that's chunky and grabs around about 230 degrees and cannot slip. You
lightly overtighten the cup, then countersqueeze the keyed washer with
opposing forces on both wrenches. Let me say that if I didn't know exactly
what all these words meant, it would seem like a hassle, but it is super
easy. Like anything on a bike or in life, it takes a little practice to
develop the skill, but so does every mechanical adjustment on your bike.
Once you have it down, it takes roughly 20 seconds, maximum. The actually
tightening, 4-5 seconds.
The PROBLEM is that -- kind of like learning to patch inner tubes or remove
and reinstall the rear wheel when all you ride is Schwalbe tires -- there's
not a lot of opportunity to learn.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 5:59 AM, hugh flynn  wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 2:37 PM masmojo  wrote:
>
>>
>> ...
>> Riv, people don't have problems with headsets coming loose!? Wow, I
>> wonder what their secret is, I've never owned a bike with a quill stem that
>> didn't  eventually need to be tightened. (& I've tried many techniques to
>> tighten them so they don't come loose). On the other hand I've never had a
>> threadless come loose.
>
>
> Doubt it's Riv specific but in 40+ years and many 1,000's of miles of
> cycling with both threadless and threaded headsets, I've never had a
> problem with either and have yet to perform a field adjustment either on or
> off road.
>
> Hugh "not a big problem for me" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
>> --
> Hugh Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

The Troll is a super nice bike---a FINE alternative to the now fully
explained one we're going to have, Bob. (And has discs!)

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 3:29 PM, Bob K.  wrote:

> The more I hear about this bike, the more I like it. I almost wish I
> didn’t love my Surly Troll so much, as this checks pretty much the same
> boxes, and I’ve already invested far, far too much money and time into a
> custom build (and two wheelsets) to about face. Oh, well. Psyched to be
> able to live vicariously through you all. Can’t wait to see prototypes and
> builds!
>
> Bob K. in Baltimore
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

We're thinking of stuff about price. To be CLEM-like would mean all TIG,
and that's--obviously--easier and still strong and all, but the first run
will be mostly lug + fillet. We're considering some all- tig (minus seat
lug) and may go half like that. Not sure..

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Doug Hansford 
wrote:

> Will the price be Clem like? I know, I know you said that’s all you have
> to say about that for now, channeling my Gump. But, I had to ask...
> Doug from low humidity pleasant day in Athens, GA. Won’t get used to it
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 23, 2018, at 2:05 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, I'm gonna need this bike. I don't think I ever emailed anyone at
> Riv about it, but I love the HHH fork and was hoping it would show up on a
> not-tandem eventually. Take my money!
> >
> > Joe Bernard
> > Novato CA.
> >
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

Bless you, Jeremy! Where were you 20 minutes ago?

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Jeremy Till  wrote:

> I think, respectfully, that maybe we should give this thread a rest, at
> least until further details of the bike are confirmed, as we're going in
> circles.  It was pointed out 6 pages ago that yes, the first gen Pugsleys
> had cantilever bosses and yes, Rivendell built one up with drop bars and
> cantilevers, so their commitment to rim brakes with the new MTB in no way
> prevents it from being a "plus" bike.
>
> In regards my preference for threadless: as a large guy who likes wide
> bars, I have found that I am able to make quill stems slip off-center,
> especially in low-speed situations where I am wrenching the bars, as one
> commonly encounters while MTBing, even when the quill was properly
> tightened.  It happened for me with both Bosco Bullmooses and with my Jones
> bars and VO quill stem.  So, for me, the more secure clamping of a 1 1/8"
> threadless stem would be a welcome feature on bike for trail riding.
>
> I sent Grant an email yesterday saying I would commit to buying one of the
> new frame + forks, especially for a discount.
>
> On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 9:03:07 AM UTC-7, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>
>> Doesn’t Grant have a Pugsley with drop bars and cantis, or did at one
>> time, works for me. Steve
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 5:58 PM Belopsky  wrote:
>>
>>> Remember when the Pugsley had v-brakes?
>>> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/96/70/239670ed17601a10f069
>>> 7b8cd5cfdd6b.jpg
>>>
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>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

OK...I know there's no killing a thread, at least not without
repercussions, but I'm not going to fee it anymore. At its best, developing
a bike is fun, and this bike is pure that for me and the others here. It
will NOT meet expectations, it'll barely miss the mark for most people
reading this, there WILL be groans of "if only they'd one ONE thing
differently...!"  Nobody is as independent as they'd like to be, or as
people think they are, and I'm on top of that list. My influences are
different, and although I don't FEEL old (at 64), having been doing bikes
for so long, and at Rivendell so long, has made me more stubborn than wise.
I don't want to build up great anticipation and enthusiam for a "secret"
bike, and yet I am so jazzed about it that I can't keep my trap fully shut.
That feels shitty and I wish I could undo, but there's no undoing.
I appreciate, and I can see straight that I and we-all-at RIV are lucky to
have such a great online group of supporters and cheer-squads. It's a big
positive in my life aside from any commercial value that may come from it.
The only thing is, right now I'm thinking I've screwed up and created a
weird hubub about a super simple bike. Here's how it'll be, and these are
the only details I'm going to reveal, but as you'll see, they're not barely
anything:

fits to 2.8. NOT three. That's not an oversight, it's be design
canti-posts for, presumably, V-brakes. no disc mount. I briefly considered
it, I was willing to bend there, but the internal opinion was NO, and I'm
so glad.
great standover, but not a mixte. there's only one way to get that, so any
speculation as to how will be correct.
135 spacing
Seat lug, but fillet and/or tig elsewhere.
HHH-type fork
Long chainstays
Long wheelbase
The Best Model Name of All Time for Any Commercial Product
Two to four colors, three of which will be almost identical.
Not a copy of anybody else's bike (to my knowledge)
The coolest name
Fun decaliteureaux! And expensive ones. About three dollars more per bike
per set, after the exhorbitant set-up fee.
No, they're not holograms. Really? U-thot-dat?
You already know 73BB and OS threadless, and the reasons
The name will scare people off. No, it's not a political or religious name,
although I have to admit I'd be strongly inclined to vote for any candidate
with this name, just hoping he or she was left-leaning.

It will be all the mountain bike a non-racer needs for any terrain in the
world. You might have to walk a few things, but it'll glide over most...at
least, that's what I suspect, based on my experience with other bikes that
kind of do, too. But we all have different interpretations of "glide."
It'll be a nicely designed set of stairs, with steps just so, as opposed to
an elevator or even an escalator.

It will be, overall, like a single version of the HHH, but with some
costlier details that don't make it better.

G

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:00 AM, Belopsky  wrote:

> If this is a mountain bike then what are all the other mountain bi...
>
> OK I give up. Rivendell will Rivendell. Lets make more bikes that are
> already bikes we have. Like Crust right?
>
> ugh.
>
> At least someone is doing it
>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

Theoretically easier to adjust with the tools you're likely to have with
you on a trail, but a few weeks ago I took a poll at work, and it revealed
that in more than 100 years of cumulative riding on dirt and roads, nobody
has ever had a threaded headset come loose. It can happen, but probably
won't. We "went threadless" only because we wanted riders to be able to
swap parts from existing bikes (stems, bars--if 31.8 to match the stem).
Rather than having to buy the bars and stems from us. WHich--we'll have a
good assortment, but still.
The 73 shell, yes, so you can have a fatty tire not riding too close to the
chain. It's not a big problem with 68, but now and then when you're going
down a bouncy trail, the chain will flop into the tire and the tire will
drag it down toward the chainstay and won't let go until you stop. It
sounds worse than it is. You're going down the trail, and all of a sudden
it sounds like you've picked up the mother of all leaves, but the bike
still goes.
Also, if you want to use a single-ring crank and external bb, those are
optimized for 73mm shells.
The debate was: 73mm shells and threadless, or Carbon Fiber and shocks, and
the right ones won!

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Threadless: Easier adjustment on the trail, conversely offset by being
> less likely to go out of adjustment on the trail.
>
> 73mm: Wider shell for modern mtb cranks which clear wider tires.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

Nobody knows nuttin' yet. Well, not exactly nobody, and "nuttin'" is an
exagerration, but it's fun to say, and it's my birth-month, so I get to.
This is true: We (here at RBW) are having a fun time with it, and are
taking every detail seriously.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Drw  wrote:

> So we know it’s gonna be fully lugged?
>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

"...before murder comes to MIND..."
Let's not start a thread with "murder" in it, OK?

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 9:52 PM, Grant Petersen  wrote:

> Joe, you have a lot of equity to burn thru before murder comes to mine, so
> no worries there. There are lots of bikes with disc brakes, and I know I
> run the small considerable risk of being accused of being stubborn or
> hurting Rivendell or being a dinosaur and all that, but I just love the
> high visible actuation beauty and function of rim brakes. So...duly noted
> your opinion, but it ain't going anywhere. We're not neeeding to do a
> mountain bike at all, but if we do it (it seems we will, but not 100
> percent yet) it won't be diluted or woke or anything. I want to be able to
> take some stands without risking offending existing disc brake fans, etc.
> I'm not the world's expert, I'm just trying to make a line of bikes that
> tie together in certain ways. Our reach and market or whatever is small, so
> we don't have to please the whole world. I would not be surprised if you
> got one of these, though.
>
> On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> He'll kill me for bringing it up again, but I can't see going to
>> threadless and 73mm, then still stopping short of discs. The people want
>> the little discs, man!
>>
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Re: [RBW] MTB hints in yesterday's Blahg?

[Grant Petersen]

Joe, you have a lot of equity to burn thru before murder comes to mine, so
no worries there. There are lots of bikes with disc brakes, and I know I
run the small considerable risk of being accused of being stubborn or
hurting Rivendell or being a dinosaur and all that, but I just love the
high visible actuation beauty and function of rim brakes. So...duly noted
your opinion, but it ain't going anywhere. We're not neeeding to do a
mountain bike at all, but if we do it (it seems we will, but not 100
percent yet) it won't be diluted or woke or anything. I want to be able to
take some stands without risking offending existing disc brake fans, etc.
I'm not the world's expert, I'm just trying to make a line of bikes that
tie together in certain ways. Our reach and market or whatever is small, so
we don't have to please the whole world. I would not be surprised if you
got one of these, though.

On Sat, Jul 21, 2018 at 8:54 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> He'll kill me for bringing it up again, but I can't see going to
> threadless and 73mm, then still stopping short of discs. The people want
> the little discs, man!
>
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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Grant Petersen]

We are united, independent, and dependent. I love Patrick, who isn't gay,
as much as I love my brother-in-law who is.
I feel bad for my role in the bickering, but not for saying what I said.
I'm sad that good people are growling over it, but happy to see so many
nice comments, too. Everybody's got a point and a position, and we're
exposing more of ourselves than we have before, me  included in that. There
have been cancelled orders, big ones, and there may be more, that's how it
goes and it's no surprise. But there has been some good, too, and a few
cancelled orders are pale consequences, historically, to speaking up or
taking a stand on some of these things. I'm not being hanged or stoned,
thank...goodness.

I'm going to let it run thru mid-day Sunday, and then I'll put up something
about bicycles---which, as important as they are, are not as important as
people...although they always go along and get along with you.
--
I'd like to invite anybody who wants to let off stem to do it to me
directly:  gr...@rivbike.com. I'm not going to swat things back and forth,
I probably won't respond, but I'll read every one respectfully.

I'll try to avoid these topics in future BLAHGs, but if I promise to, I'd
feel too non-independent. If I cross a line that you see and I don't, I ask
but don't demand that you respond to me directly.

Happy 4rth!

Grant

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 7:15 PM, Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles <
4824...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Joe will you be offering patches for your new fan club?
>
> As a group, I think we've handled this conversation rather well
> considering most online decorum.  I'm grateful that the thread was not shut
> down.
>
> Happy 4th everyone.
>
> Alex Wirth
> Rochester, NY
>
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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Grant Petersen]

If I get the last spot on the committe and can't make it to a meeting,
Phillip gets my spot. If Phillip and I are running against one another, I'd
vote for Phillip.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’d like to be on the monetary committee.
> I just sold my dad’s coin trove (6.2 kg of pocket change from before
> 1965). I kept a handful of Mercury Dimes, a couple different Liberty silver
> dollars, and a Buffalo Nickel. Man, that was good money!
>
> Not sure if I’m in favor of non-US nationals on our currency, but maybe.
> The Google doodles are analogous to people on currency, and they’ve ramped
> up the number of featured immigrants and great people from all over the
> world since 2016. Did you know an Iraqi immigrant invented skyscrapers? The
> external lattice version anyway, that allows them to be enormously tall and
> still strong.
>
> Coin graphics:
> Half Dome (Open Pit Mine obverse)
> Tallest Trees (all the different ones - clear cut obverse)
> Anasazi cliff dwellings
> Full Moon (obverse the “dark” side side we never see)
> Deepwater Horizon fire (seabirds on the obverse)
> Food. Regional dishes.
> Animals. Skunks, moose, orcas. Wooly mammoths.
> Atoms.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Grant Petersen]

There's a new BLAHG up, and it'll be up thru the weekend. On the surface it
may seem to be adding fuel to the fire, etc., but if you wade thru the
whole thing (as I have!), I don't think you'll find too much controversy in
it.
Grant "Possibly Incredibly Naive" Petersen

On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> My best friend is a Republican. I don't traffic in "all members of a
> particular party are bad" BS, I object to THIS policy from THIS
> president..who isn't even a real Republican. He was a liberal Democrat
> 15-20 years ago, and would have stayed there if he could've found a
> foothold. But Putin and Fox News both figured out (independently and
> simultaneously) that his autocratic tendencies fit the righty side, so
> started grooming him for a Republican presidential run.
>
> I don't think either entity thought it would work, but combine the power
> of the consolidated voice of conservatism in cable news with Russia's
> astonishing election meddling prowess and you get the lunatic we have now
> in the WH. Heckuva job, America! 
>
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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Grant Petersen]

I second the let's not let this one become one of those ones (and of
course, Just Riding)...
I don't want "Grant's Blahg" to become the thing that people read to get
riled, but I also don't want to have to edit myself too much. I'm a lefty,
and that won't always come across strongly because most of the time it'll
still be about bikes.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Uhh, let's not do abortion here, kids. It's not even remotely related to
> the Blahg topic, and it's time to go ride our bikes. JUST RIDE.
>
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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Grant Petersen]

A trifecta, or a triple threat to our continued existence? We'll see..
we're working on a spider web frame.

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 4:12 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> That will make folks do a double-take.
>
> On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 6:15:30 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> It'll be a first look at our three-top tube bike!
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 12:40 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG
>>> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
>>> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
>>> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
>>> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
>>> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
>>>
>>> Will this be the mountain bike post?
>>> Will this be the Rivendell with a suspension fork post?
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:05:43 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:

 The next BLAHG will be even more not-intentionally divisive, probably.
 It will have more bike content in it.


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Re: [RBW] Thanks Grant

[Grant Petersen]

It'll be a first look at our three-top tube bike!

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 12:40 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG
> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
> Bill hits the "Refresh" button on the BLAHG again
>
> Will this be the mountain bike post?
> Will this be the Rivendell with a suspension fork post?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:05:43 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> The next BLAHG will be even more not-intentionally divisive, probably. It
>> will have more bike content in it.
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

I want a Noodle-moose too, Chris!

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Christopher Murray <
chrispmurra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will pre-order any noodle-moose bars!!!
>
> Chris
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 5:20 AM, ctifusion  wrote:

> Thanks for the info Grant. I can understand Nitto's position. I have a lot
> of miles on those bars in road and "gravel" conditions and I don't get any
> sense that they are weak or dangerous.
>
> Also, not sure what the deleted message said but I surely didn't intend
> this to be a controversial post. I'm not a "gravel grinder" guy trying to
> change Riv, just the opposite,
>
> THe message I deleted, that was up for a minute or two, had a sentence
with a few missing words--typo. I just filled in the fix and deleted then
funky one, is all.

Nitto's paranoia is well-earned. Nitto has developed a small following here
and in Europe in the past eight to ten years or so, and some
importers/distributors have made available to the Western market handlebars
that were originally developed for city use in Japan. They're made with
perfectly good aluminum (they are NITTO, after all), but aren't made to the
same strength standards as the hard-core/universal market bars are. But
people see them as cool, super inexpensive, under-the-radar Nitto bars, and
they use them for gnarly stuff. A few years ago some burly Germans and one
or two Americans broke five of those bars, and the ensuing recall (and the
management of it, by a US distributor who is not us or Merry Sales) cost
NITTO about a m...and lawsuits were filed even tho nobody was
permanently super seriously hurt.
NITTO is a small company, 40 employees, average age pushing 60, and they
aren't raking it in, so this kind of stuff messes them up, and that's why
they test in-house more rigorously than industry standard tests, and that's
why they don't make wide drops. We could ask them to design a bar-stem
combo around a widey, but probably we'd be a centimeter and a degree or two
or three off for some, and perfect for nobody, and it might be
unsatisfying. Drops are mainly for road use, because for trail use you
don't want a forward braking position--on a steep descent it makes no
sense, don't even argue for it. A short stem can mitigate the weight-shift
a little, but also on a drop, your lower hand position makes it harder to
weight the rear wheel. Over the years there have been remedial stems--the
LD, the DirtDrop to name two, but they evolved with a focus on using drop
bars because the straight bars more popular had their own problems.
For me and I think most people, the Goldilox bar for trail riding is a
swept-back, come-up bar, which offers the grip positions of a drop without
the forward lunge braking position that fights you on a downhill. Visuals
and histories come in play in a big way when picking handlebars, though,
and there's no use fighting them. Plus, there's always always the pull of
the unavailable bar, or the bar that just so combines elements of two or
three existing bars but itself doesn't exist.
I rode Ultra Romance's 66wide drop bar Crust and loved it. I don't think
I'd put a bar like that on my bike, but if it were on my bike already, I
wouldn't be in a hurry to take it off, either. There's a lot of conflicting
good ways out there!


>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 3:23:38 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 12:22:45 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>>
>>> Nitto tests bars and stems together and wants the bars to break before
>>> the stem. The bars are already strong, and they've found that even 51s (we
>>> had samples made) impose too much leverage on the stem. The workaround
>>> might be to make stronger stems, but then you get into a whole escalating
>>> mish-mash where one chases the other, and stems, which have forced
>>> dimensions inherited down the line, and then all you can do is make it
>>> steel.
>>> One of the drawbacks of working with NITTO is accepting their
>>> super-prudence in times like this.  It's like, also, when our 66cm Wavie
>>> bars come in---we'll recommend them only with CrMo or other Nitto stems
>>> intended for mtn bikes. Some will mount them on Tallux (road) stems, but we
>>> will recommend something stronger. When NITTO hears "mountain bike riding"
>>> they imagine the worst and stupidest. Personally, I don't think at all that
>>> Crust is being IMprudent with the widies. It's a good company and they do
>>> neat, good things!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 1:55:10 PM UTC-7, ctifusion wrote:

 I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love
 them. And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place
 when they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide
 drop bar into production.

 I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.

 Thoughts?

 Brynnar
 Indy

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Re: [RBW] Re: RIV Catalog Arrived

[Grant Petersen]

Originally I had "testicals," (in that use it was referring to men), then
that became the proper spelling, "testicles," then Kim (the woman on the
cover of the '94 Bstone cat), was helping with proofing and judgment calls,
said to go with yoo-hoo, which I'd never heard of. In my circle, we call
'em as we see 'em. But--glad it worked!

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 9:38 AM, d2mini  wrote:

> "NO TOP TUBE THERE TO BONK YOUR YOO-HOO"
>
> I finally got a copy of the Riv catalog with my order and was just reading
> through it now.
> Thank god my last sip of a coffee was a few moments prior to reading that
> line and not during. LMAO!
>
> Thanks for the laugh, Grant. :)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: How crucial is it to chase the threads a derailleur hanger

[Grant Petersen]

Now it makes more sense. I SEE our mechs chasing der hanger threads, maybe
just figured if they saw a particularly "clean" one they might skip it.
I'll find out the deal anyway, but might not "report my findings" here on
le Forume.. just because...it'll be taken care of or already is, whatever.

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:42 AM, John G.  wrote:

> I think this was a repainted frame...
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eat Bacon Don't Jog--Goal set, goal met

[Grant Petersen]

It's hard core low carb and has stuff about ketosis.
Probably not surprisingly and sometimes maybe maddeningly, in its
hardcoreness it gives tough scores to some of our favorite foods than, in a
softer core world, are considered healthy. But what is tolerable before
your pancreas is shot is unhealthy once you've had 30 or so years to weaken
(so to speak) your insulin. At that point you can't just wake up and say
OK, I'll have the bran muffin and orange juice.
I know I wrote it and therefore have zero credibility, but it is an easy to
read book that gets to the heart of things fast, then goes onto the next. I
think it would be hard to read and not get ANYTHING out of. Enough!


On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Lum Gim Fong 
wrote:

> Is EBDJ keto?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: RIV Catalog Arrived

[Grant Petersen]

at this point, two ways to get a catalog

1. order something
2. call and ask

in a week or so we'll have it online, for those who prefer a screen!


On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I haven't, but then I told Riv to keep my donation, so perhaps they took
> me off the list.
>
> Patrick Moore, in ABQ, NM, 1,136 miles by bike from Rivendell World HQ
> (per Google maps).
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:14 AM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else still not received their catalog?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 2:05:09 PM UTC-5, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>>>
>>> Just got the mail and there it was - the promised Riv catalog!  I'm
>>> going to wait until after work to savor it with a beer in hand on the back
>>> patio.  Just from the cover, it looks to be of high quality.  Much as you
>>> would expect.
>>> Chris
>>>
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>
>
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> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, New Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
> **
> **
> *Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*
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Re: [RBW] Re: Banana sax reviews needed. Stuff fall out?

[Grant Petersen]

 About the Banana Sack, just an opinion :

1. Sway is often an unnecessary concern. There is a difference between an
"on the bike" problem and an "in the head theoretical" one.

2. Security is good. The least secure mount, ironically, is the original
intended mount, on the saddle loops. Then the Bsack's at its most
horizontal. Even then, it's 100 percent secure when closed, and probably 95
percent secure when you shamefull fail to close it right, when the flap's
just flapping free. You can make it 99.googolplex secure with a
free-flapping flap if you push a bandana down on top of your BananaLoad and
use the elastic stuff under the flap (to hold the banandana in place). Then
only neutrinos can escape its clenched maw.

The original bag of this type, made in France by Gilles Berthoud, was made
as a saddle bag. Gilles is a master bag designer, a bicycle rider, and the
design was little-to-notatall changed from its first public use. We copied
that with our first version (which we called the Banana Bag) in the early
2000s, and no problems there, either.

3. The BananaSack, tho, mounts equally well or maybe 2 percent even better
to the handlebar. That's thanks to Roman, I think, who suggested the new
and embarrassingly obvious solution of two separate straps, like saddlebags
have. Mounted on the front, the Bsack is nearly vertical. I can access
everything in it while riding, and on a road (not a trail) it's not even
necessary to close it with the miraculous toggle.

3. It mounts wonderfully on the sides of baskets.

4. The elastic thing makes it easy to overfill.

5. The fore-and-aft slots (one has a stiffener) are good for phones, tire
levers, flat stuff.

Bags should be easy to use on and off the bike. The mouth of the BananaSack
is like the mouth of a largemouth bass, ready to engulf anything that comes
its way, with no buckles or zippers or roll-top weatherproofing to mess
with. It's not waterproof when submerged (like the bass it mimics!), but
it'll handle an apocalyptic rain, and if you doubt that, you can stuff your
stuff in a Target bag before putting it in.

It's not the bag for everybody and every use, but as handy day-bags go,
it's where we want it to be. There are lots of nice bags of about the same
size out there. It's hard to go wrong these days. Yay!


On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 7:18 AM, Shoji Takahashi 
wrote:

> Lum Gim Fong,
> Staying in the Riv family, if the banana sax is not quite large enough,
> I'd recommend the Saddlesack Small.
>
> Shoji
> Arlington MA
>
> On Monday, May 21, 2018 at 10:01:12 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> The Pika is a pretty good design. No sway; rolls up compactly when
>> carrying little, but expands amazingly when completely filled; I've carried
>> surprisingly large grocery loads in mine. I did sell it because I found
>> other bags better for my use, but for minimalist, non-supported, and
>> non-sway saddle-attached carriage, that and the Viscacha are wonderful. The
>> downside is that, when you fill it up completely, you have all your load
>> stuffed into a long, narrow tunnel, so this isn't the best bag for frequent
>> and rapid access to contents.
>>
>> On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 3:20 AM, Garth  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>   FWIW, This prolly doesn't fit the "look" you seem to prefer, but for a
>>> rock solid no-sway saddle bag the Revelate Pika to work very well. This is
>>> Revelate's "small" version, the Viscacha is even larger capacity.  I had
>>> the original Banana bag years ago and ended up selling it because of the
>>> sway and I prefer no thigh contact with bags at all. I tried various ways
>>> to minimize the sway and rub but it was a venture in futility. Sure, it
>>> "looked" great, but frankly... so what, and to whom  ? The Pika also
>>> engulfs a Banana bag capacity holding 6-12 liters. It ranges in size by
>>> rolling up the open end as you need it. It has perfectly placed
>>> adjustable/locking straps to eliminate any movement or excess. The fabric
>>> is waterproof, but it's not a "dry bag" in that the seams are not factory
>>> sealed. For practical purposes your stuff is not going to get wet.
>>>
>>>  I carry a small roll of tools, 2 40mm tubes, another small bag with
>>> cell phone, wallet, neck buff, etc., a featherweight vest and water
>>> resistant jacket that packs into your fist. I don't even "try" to pack it
>>> in there tightly, and I still have another half a bag left . The bag rolled
>>> up to it's smallest size it looks like a You could fit a 12" mini pump in
>>> there, prolly longer as I have never used the bag @ full length.  At it's
>>> smallest rolled up size, it looks like an average seat bag. As you
>>> expand/unroll it as needed it grows kinda like Pinocchio's nose !
>>>
>>> If you are curious, do an image search for " Revelate Pika " and you can
>>> see how it changes shapes as needed.
>>>
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[RBW] Happy Fantastic Rivendell Perfecto Shopping Experience!

[Grant Petersen]

It's not up to me, but I wish the subject titles like "Frustrated by Riv's
lack of inventory" wouldn't stay alive for weeks. It may have made sense in
the original post, and it's no up to me to change the rules of posting or
threading or whatever, but tour inventory level right now is at the past
5-year average.

Our focus will be "fewer things but more of them." I've passed on many of
the suggestions to Dave, who deals with that end of things. We are more
limited than REI and L.L. Bean in that we buy an ecommerce package that we
can afford, and it has more limitations than the unaffordable ones.

If any of you out there is in the business of making ecommerce sites
better, or customizing them...then send both me and Dave (n...@rivbike.com)
the same emails, and when Dave comes back on Thurs...well, maybe not that
DAY, but soon after, he may get back to you. Our site runs on shopify--and
we're not likely to change that soon.

If any of you are familiar with that and can improve it, great. The last
time we hired out for help, with a shopify expert, there was that messup
with the credits--now solved, but hooboy.

There are better shopping sites than ours. I use them, too. But ours
continues to improve, if slowly, and is better now than it has been in the
past. Some of the improvements are on our end--the administration side.


G

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Paul Choi  wrote:

> Rivendell is not Amazon. We don't want them to be. Grant, please continue
> to do what you need to do.
>
> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 5:01:09 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> OK, so I'm no longer a big bike spender, but I do own three Riv bikes and
>> feel some loyalty to the company.  At 73 all I need are replacement parts.
>>   I haven't ordered anything from RBW in two years because every time I try
>> to put in an order half of what I need is out of stock.
>>
>> It's finally Spring in Vt and this week I pulled all the bikes out of the
>> basement, cleaned & tuned them up.  I made a list of the replacement parts
>> I needed, which was really very short - new HB tape and one tire.  Of
>> course I can always use cleaner and lube so added them in, then threw in a
>> chain guard for the Rambouillet.  Went to the RBW site and discovered that
>> the tire I wanted was out of stock, as was the chain guard.  Not much point
>> in putting in an order for HB tape and two items I can buy anywhere
>>
>> VO has the tire (650b X 38 skin wall) and HB  tape, so once again no sale
>> for RBW.
>>
>> Michael
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Frustrated by RBW lack of inventory

[Grant Petersen]

If at first you don't succeed, etc. It's an ongoing challenge, no doubt,
but always a worthy one.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 2:43 PM, John Hawrylak 
wrote:

> Grant's theme of "duplication" was stated about 5 to 6 years ago, but I
> did not notice a large reduction.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
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[RBW] Atlantis-to-Poster (need not be long thread, just saying this)

[Grant Petersen]

Some of these questions or just unclear-confusing-redundancy things, like
why both the JoeAppa and Atla will be made clearer in the catalog.

On another note, this time about the Rivendell - David Lance Goines poster:
DLG used the same printing device (press?) for almost 50 years, and it was
about 50 years old when he got it...as I remember from his telling. Two
years ago it crapped out and he had to get another one, 50 years younger
but still 50 years old or older, made by another maker and I think in
another country. For most of his posters, the newer machine works, he has
been able to get good results, but wouldn't you know it--ours, which
appears to have at most 9 colors in it, actually has 14, according to the
one guy who ought to know, and he's tried and failed three or so times to
get the same results.
I've suggested he dumb it down some to make it easier, it would still look
good, but he doesn't do that, so we've been out of posters for about 3
years. After I read the thing about the extra poster and the number game, I
contacted him again and said, "...still here, still want...wuzzup?"  He
assured me he'd try again, and I have no doubt.As I've said before
somewhere: (1) He really likes that poster, he has used it as an example in
articles and stuff where he could have used any poster in his portfolio;
and (2) He likes me and my enthusiasm for the poster---and is about as
Unracery as one can get, with all black clothes, black hat, cane, and
handlebar moustache. He rode a lot in the '70s, and still feels the kinship.





On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 8:14 AM, phil k  wrote:

> I view this board as largely people giving their impressions based on
> their own experience. It's what I like about it this board.
>
> It's an amalgamation of everyone's experience that may be helpful to some,
> not relevant to others. I'm not sure I detect any mansplaining on this
> thread (there aren't any women being patronized, or at least I hope not),
> merely people giving their first impressions and speculations based on
> little information given and trying to parlay their own experience to how
> it would translate to the new Atlantis.
>
> I'm enjoying the various thoughts on this thread. I'm not sure where else
> I would be able to find a 9 page thread about the Atlantis.
>
> I really want to buy this Atlantis, but saving up for a wedding at the
> moment.
>
> As for being redundant with the Appaloosa, I think the Atlantis will work
> better with drop bars. I couldn't use drops comfortably on the Appaloosa,
> even with a dirt drop bar. Hopefully, the new Atlantis is still made for
> touring loads as well.
>
> If the Appaloosa ends up being redundant, I would DEFINITELY be stoked for
> a Made in Taiwan lugged mountain mixte with the Appaloosa fork crown and
> head badge...
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

Damn. Well, maybe we can sneak it in the new catalog. No attributions, tho.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:19 PM, Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> If you are selling both the original and the new version Atlantis you
> could call the new version the “Longboard Atlantis”. Very Riv and very
> California.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

Not film. Pal Sean's iPhone, about 22 hours ago. He rode the 51, I was on
the 56.

On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 1:19 PM, Ryan Merrill  wrote:

> Were those pictures shot on film?
>
> Nice thumbie shot!
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

've ridden every iteration of the Atlantis and have convinced myself (if
nobody else!) that I have a good feel for how they ride. I know it's easy
to look at numbers or air gaps and lock in to a conclusion, but riding the
bike (which, I understand, few people of the luxury to do before buying it)
is a better test.

 The 3.5% to 4% wheelbase increase doesn't demerit the flat-paved ride
quality at all (read: I can't tell). Last week on trails I thought it was
"on the quick side of things." On trails I prefer the much longer CLEM 59.
The CLEMs were the bikes that opened my eyes. When Keven got his custom, he
wanted LONGER than 56cm chainstays. His favorite bike ever, and still his
main everyday bike with 15,000+ miles on it, is the 56cm-chainstayed
Cheviot.

It's tough. These are largely emotional and theoretical discussions. Here
inside me, I feel like I'm coming to realize and getting my eyes opened to
ways to make bikes ride even better. It's a minor bummer to find the latest
greatest prides and joys evaluated harshly because the numbers don't fit
into familiar spreadsheets, whether on paper on in brains. I'll retreat now
with these parting words: As good as the earlier Atlantis bikes are, the
newie tops 'em, but the difference is subtle, and the bar and wheel choice
have far more influence on a bike's spiritedness than the chainstays.

OK!

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Grant Petersen <grant6...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The point which I flopped in making is that a bike that "performs" at the
> fringes can certainly handle the middle, but not necessarily the other way
> around. I should have been more clear.
>
> Grant
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 1:01 PM, John Phillips <w00lyb3...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Grant wrote,
>>
>> "We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we live surrounded
>> by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. It's not DP-Rocky
>> Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, it's hard to
>> beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have the challenges
>> of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor walkups, and I'm
>> sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are for."
>>
>>So...the Atlantis is changing from a touring bike to a Mt. Diablo
>> trail/fire road model for East Bay, non-multi-modal commuting, ranch home
>> owners? To me this is clear as mud, and it seems like a very small
>> demographic to be aiming at.
>>
>>
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

The point which I flopped in making is that a bike that "performs" at the
fringes can certainly handle the middle, but not necessarily the other way
around. I should have been more clear.

Grant

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 1:01 PM, John Phillips  wrote:

> Grant wrote,
>
> "We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we live surrounded
> by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. It's not DP-Rocky
> Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, it's hard to
> beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have the challenges
> of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor walkups, and I'm
> sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are for."
>
>So...the Atlantis is changing from a touring bike to a Mt. Diablo
> trail/fire road model for East Bay, non-multi-modal commuting, ranch home
> owners? To me this is clear as mud, and it seems like a very small
> demographic to be aiming at.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

It's like Mark said--you can wheelie, but the bike makes you have to try,
which is good. I regularly ride my Chev and 59 Clem on the skinniest,
twistiest, slightly illegal singletrack with a 180 turn and can still make
it. The whole idea is to improve the ride, to discourage endos and
wheelies, and add nice stability to any descent, road or trail. The LWB
bikes have an edge, but they don't feel the least funky.

On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 10:18 AM,  wrote:

> Your point is very interesting.  I had never thought of it that way.  I am
> 5'10" and rarely inadvertently wheelie.  But it is important on the trails
> I normally ride (east bay hills) to be able to raise the front wheel from
> time to time over obstacles, especially while climbing.  Just a little bit.
> I guess its different for everyone and every riding terrain.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lower price Atlantis!

[Grant Petersen]

I'm with Ryan. We've ridden a lot of bikes, lots of variations, and we live
surrounded by roads and trails no more than 15 minutes by bike away. It's
not DP-Rocky Mtn style, but as BL and JW and other locals will attest, it's
hard to beat. More important, we ride them. I admittedly don't have the
challenges of fitting bikes into elevators or navigating 3-floor walkups,
and I'm sympathetic to those who do, but that's what Bromptons are for.

Bikes tend to grow taller faster than they grow longer, and tall people end
up like circus bears on tiny bikes. That's an exagerration, but the point
is, they sit high on a short bike, with their butt too close to the rear
hub. It's a wacky weight distribution, but it's tolerable and you can get
used to it, but it's-- just not right. Also, shorter bikes tend to be
jumpy, and benefit from longer wheelbases, and the best way to lengthen
them is in back. A longer front-center certainly helps, too, but at some
point it rules out drop bars.

That's a bad thing if you're locked in to them, but also, the length of the
top tube alone doesn't tell you all you need to know about how much you
have to lean and far you have to reach to grab the bars. It depends so much
on bar height..and seat tube angle affects it, and have you ever thought
about convergence and divergence as it relates to head and seat tube angles
and bar and saddle height? We do that. In some ways it's ridiculous, but
the same ridiculous thinking goes into all of the dimensions, including
chainstay length.

For a steep hairy descent, the best bike has a monster front-center
dimension--too long for school, for sure---and a longer chainstay, too. You
might think (logically, this is good thinking) that a shorter chainstay
provides more traction up hills and makes it easier to weight the rear
wheel on steep downhills. There are other considerations more important
(imo), though. A shorter bike (chainstay and front-center) wheelies and
endos sooner. Sweepy back'd Boscos make it easy to push the front wheel way
ahead and stop an endo, and a long front center and chainstay fight the
leverage that lead to one wheel or the other lifting off the ground.

Those are radical circumstance, but on even a flat smooth road, length adds
a quality to the ride that can't be had without it. I'm sure somebody
reading this has a 60cm Cheviot. Tell the group how luscious it feels. If
you haven't ridden a bike like that, it's hard to swallow, and even if you
have, it's hard to explain (so, "luscious" is how I do it). The bike's no
slower for it, but you don't have to be on high alert.

We're not moving away from anything valuable, and an extra inch or two or
three of chaintay is still a small percentage of the total. It just seems
more when you convert inches to centimeters and focus on the tire-to-seat
tube gap. I seriously, honestly believe that our current bikes ride even
better than the older ones--which have always been and still are
great-riding bikes.  Changes are always tough, we will lose people, it's
normal to question why or attribute it to some brain-change or something,
but the changes that you see are evolutionary and in a good direction, I
think.

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 12:37 PM, Ryan Merrill 
wrote:

> I have a feeling the stability offered by the long chainstays on the
> Appaloosa is going to be pretty nice for the manner in which I'm going to
> ride it. The gravel roads I'm going to take it on could use a little bit
> more stability. I don't know if the bike will fit on my Kuat rack
> though...got to find out about that. I suspect not, so it will be something
> I have to remedy.
>
> I could see how carrying around a rather long bike could get to be a
> burden in an urban setting. Luckily, I don't live in an urban setting and
> instead am in the country. We'll see.
>
> On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:12:39 PM UTC-5, Eric Karnes wrote:
>
>> I agree. It seems that Riv's bikes are moving in a direction that
>> coincides less and less with my own bike needs and preferences. The
>> significantly longer top tubes make it almost impossible for my t-rex-like
>> arms to utilize multiple positions even on very swept-back bars (drops are
>> impossible at any height). And the super-long chainstays are really hard
>> for city-dwellers who have to cart their bike up and down steep and narrow
>> stairs on a regular basis.
>>
>> Of course, these are simply my own personal needs and preferences. Grant
>> and Co. should absolutely evolve their offerings in directions that they
>> believe in. This may not jive with what I'm looking for and that's totally
>> reasonable. For everyone who isn't thrilled with the new designs, there is
>> likely someone who it. And who am I to tell someone like Grant to how to
>> design a bike? But from a strictly selfish perspective, I do hope that they
>> keep some offerings (such as the Sam and the MUSA frames) in the more
>> 'traditional' riv model.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Tuesday, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Suntour Power Thumb Shifters

[Grant Petersen]

The Silver2 shifters--many of you know this--are anatomically nearly
identical to the SunTours from '82. We tried to improve where we could, but
there wasn't much opportunity. The clamp is more versatile, fits more
diameters. The rotation method no longer used the holes, but goes with
florets on the perimeter. Sorry about the language here, don't feel like
you should understand that, but basically it uses the same rotation system
as SunRace thumbies. The one we designed (the clamp) was, I think, better
still, but the front-runner is still good. We had free run of the lever and
submitted the clamp, but Dia-Compe has its own ideas for the clamp, and
it's still plenty good, and improvement over the early SunTours.

I expect to see them in mid to late March. We've already mounted the lever
(just a left) and tested its ergo and all, and it's fine. The thing is,
when it comes out, we expect a certain amount of monday morning QB-ing, and
that'll be fine, part of the fun, but the lever is really quite good as it
is, and without the emotional backing of our customers in general and this
group especially, things like this don't happen.

Modern shifters-STI, trigger shifters, all that--really have been
perfected. They work perfectly, and from that point of view there's no
reason NOT to use them. It's just hard to argue why not...  For me it comes
down to a mix of a philosophical approach that .. is hard to put into words
without sounding like the unabomber, but it has to do with saying no to
ultimate convenience in the interest of integrating your brain and finger
mechanics into the working of a simple compound machine composed of a wheel
(the cable drum of the shifter) and a lever, the shifter itself. It also
has to do with resisting the urge for maximizing overkill in recreational
activities, and not accepting that it's stubbornness or stupidity to do
that (to resist).

We all know where the tide is going with everything, and I'd vote for more
than half of it, I'm sure, but there has to be a line. This reminds me
right now, of when I hired on at Bstone in December '84 and thought the
tag-line for the bikes was sappy or hokey or stupid. It was "The Body and
the Bike —the Synergistic Combination."  Looking at bikes and bodies now, I
think that's not so stupid anymore. Manual shifting--and maybe even
traditional indexing is part of that, in view of what's right around the
corner of the pike--is like digging in your heels at the 50-yard line and
not letting your role in riding the bike diminish as much as the component
makers and the desperate bike industry wants it to be diminished. They can
and are selling diminishment as advancement, but that's funky because it
assumes there's no pleasure in "the synergistic combination." It's FUN to
shift, it's FUN to miss a shift now and then, to be a flubby human, and
then to correct it on the retry. Every time your shift misses or isn't
perfect, it's a reminder that you're a fallible human operating a simple
machine, and of course you want your shifts to take all the time, but
nobody dies if they don't.The Silver2 shifters will be pretty good.
Good enough! I just thought of something to wonder about. Hm. OK!

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Ed Fausto  wrote:

> Thanks Garth, I appreciate the help.
> Now I need to find a pair to try on my Cheviot :-)
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Garth  wrote:
>
>> Any of them Ed !
>>  Friction does not limit or is limited by the number of cogs, given the
>> intended cable pull ratio. I have used mine from 5-9 speeds, easy breezy.
>> They have a huge range.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Grant Petersen]

Back from my short playdate...
Going out again soon, but thanks for the correction on the PBH which
should've been SH, or the other way around. It's fixed now.



On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks for this. What is the sta -- does anyone know? It looks like a 57
> would be nice ...
>
> PAM
>
> On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 7:51 AM, Belopsky 
> wrote:
>
>> Looks like there are more numbers now:
>> /quote
>>
>> Frame sizeTTcm  conservative PBH range
>>
>> 48.5   53.564.5-67
>>
>> 51.5   54.4 !  66.5-69.2
>>
>> 53  55.3 !  68.5 - 72
>>
>> 55  56.270.5 - 73.5
>>
>> 57   57.572.5 - 75.5
>>
>> 59   58.174.5 - 79.5
>>
>> These recommendations are rough, loose, and assume a Nitto stem with at
>> least a 190mm quill. We now stock the Tallux with 225mm, which is probably
>> too long for the 53cm and smaller. With the Tallux on the smaller bikes,
>> you won't be able to get it even level with the saddle. I'm not
>> computer-modeling any of this, sorry, but it's pretty close to right.
>>
>>
>> /end quote
>>
>> I assume that by PBH he means seat height?
>> The 53 is looking mighty good, but the 55 may work as well.
>>
>> How does Rivendell typically 'measure' their frame size? Is it bb center
>> to [theoretical] top?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Shifter 2 project revived

[Grant Petersen]

No, it's a prototype, something we'll be trying out and maybe do to a
biggish roadish frame next year. I'm surprised nobody's said anything. It's
fne, though!

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:41 PM, Ray Varella  wrote:

> No one has mentioned the diversion attachment,
> Grant, is that the illegitimate love child of a truss frame and double top
> tube frame?
> Now the PETA folks will be after us to spay and neuter our bikes, the
> shelters are full.
>
> Ray
> Vallejo CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Shifter 2 project revived

[Grant Petersen]

No, I meant 610mm. World records.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Peter Adler  wrote:

> 610mm = 61cm = 24" and change. You mean 61mm, yes?
>
> Peter Adler
> who bought a set of those @100mm cruiser Tektro DP sidepulls at a
> warehouse sale a few years back, decided that the mechanical advantage made
> them unusable for stopping bikes, and cannibalized the nutted bolts to
> convert the Allen-wrench 559s bought at the previous year's sale
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 3:32:00 PM UTC-8, Grant @ Rivendell
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> recommended brakes: the 559 sidepull, paul or compass cp, or the soon to
>> be reissued Dia-Compe 610 centerpull (with a max reach of 610mm)
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Shifter 2 project revived

[Grant Petersen]

Note to non-deacon Patrick: Your size is a mixte!

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> *That's *what I had in mind. Thanks.
>
> Non-diaconal-Patrick, who damn' well won't buy a 59, in ABQ, NM.
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Grant Petersen <grant6...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Note to non-deacon Patrick about the singlespeeder:
>> Name:  Frank Jones Sr.
>> Not for: 26-inch wheels! ha.
>> Upslope: 3-deg
>> New lug seat tube super boss
>> Custom lugs on head tube (the combo is unique, looks great)
>> Fillet BB b/c the downtube is 28.6
>> Color: Homer blue
>> Rear dropout: Made it just for this bike. Wacky long rear entry two-eyes
>> hooded kind, looks l ike an alligator, soaks up 8t chainring diff
>> Midfork braze-ons, as I recall. We'll get a sample soon. I could look it
>> up...I suppose
>>
>> Sizes: You should get a 59, but would probably want a 57. ha
>>
>> Name trivia: It was made for Blue Lug. I asked 'em if they had any name
>> in mind, or any style of name. Said no. I presented 5 names, four of which
>> were clever variants of ONE or SINGLE (Solouno...etc) plus the insane wild
>> card  super American sounding Frank Jones SR.  That's what they picked, and
>> I like it!
>>
>> 120 spacing
>> rackmounts
>> brake reach 59, which allows 38mm tire (a BL requirement)
>>
>> recommended brakes: the 559 sidepull, paul or compass cp, or the soon to
>> be reissued Dia-Compe 610 centerpull (with a max reach of 610mm)
>>
>> I'm getting a 59 for my short bursty sprints on the way to and from work,
>> with Albastache bars and 'Browns.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Grant said: "The SS project started out a dumb lark in the early 2000s,
>>> and has been tremendously successful. Not financially, but from the point
>>> of view that lots of riders have been given the chance to learn friction
>>> shifting, and if no SILVER, no chance. That's not important in the big
>>> picture, but to me, personally, it is huge. I'm really proud of it, not in
>>> an outward chest-thump way or a smug way, but in an inward way."
>>>
>>> That (in a general sense) is why Rivendell is worth keeping around -- so
>>> to speak. One gets so effing tired of hearing of "resource optimization"
>>> and "cost efficiencies" and "marketing focus strategies" and "product
>>> portfolio optimization". Puke, puke, puke. Make something because it's good
>>> and fun and useful!
>>>
>>> When will we hear geom specs for the SS? Will it plane? Will it work
>>> with my AM hub? How fat a tire?
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore, not going to buy a Roadini after all, but who knows about
>>> the SS, who still thinks the old Bar Con is the one to beat.
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS Rivendell Silver Shifters

[Grant Petersen]

I'm told, yes, That's what inspired the v.2,  Dia-Compe has its own version
using our tooling, tho.

B,

G


On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 9:11 AM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> So the original SS1 is still dying out?
>
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Re: [RBW] Roadini at RBW

[Grant Petersen]

The new seat lug doesn't care what the seat tube angle or any of that
it--it rotates to accommodate. That is a convenience, but in the rotation
dept it's no diff than a standard side-braze. The original Trek lugs from
'78 or so were totally fixed angles, as were the dropouts, and each size
had its own set, and they didn't require mitering (the internals accepted
straight-cut tubes) The initial investment was high, but it allowed Trek
builders to braze up to 40 frames (per builder) per day.
The ENTIRE purpose of the ball-socket seat lug is to eliminate shear
forces, which is does 100 percent. The cost to braze each joint is the same
or a bit higher. The tooling investment can't possibly pay for itself in
any kind of economical cost savings. The opposite---we already have several
seat lugs (like, eight) and seat stay plugs (three) which we've now made
obsolete, even though the molds are good for another 50 years worth of
frames at our rate.

Not once that I can think of have we (I) ever made a decision based on its
ability to save us money. We've not made stuff that cost too much (fully
lugged tandem). We often can't afford something. But if we were
concerned about saving a dollar or even fifty dollars, even a hundred
dollars on a frame, we wouldn't use ANY lugs or fork crowns or cast
dropouts.

Here's a cost savings thing--not to go back on what I just said--but it's
the way I'd prefer it, anyway (with my fondness for asymmetry). ON the
Roadini/new seat stay caps, we wanted both 14mm and 16mm. But I don't want
to pay for two molds, and each mold could fit only two caps. So, genius of
the obvious, I said rather than do a left and right side 14 in one and a
left and right 16 in another, just do a left 14 and a right 16 in the same
mold, and when they make 100 bikesworth of 14s, (200 14mm caps) they also
make 100 bikesworth of 16s--whether we need them or not. This saves the
$2,500 (cheaper than a lug or crown mold!) or so tool cost for separate L
and R for both 14 & 16, but we pay for the others even when we don't need
them yet.

The actual real and only significant cost savings is the TIG-ing instead of
LUG-ing on the other joints.
The dropouts cost less per pair, but as you'll see when you see them, we
made up for that with higher labor costs in the way they made the joint.
Both front and rear. So again, it all comes down to TIG saves $$$...and
then not having to cream the head tube area, too.



On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 5:41 AM, Michael Cambron 
wrote:

> The socketed seat tube lug can be standard across various frame sizes so
> long as the seat tube angle remains the same. Seat stay attachment is
> simplified.  Seat post binder bolt is integrated so this eliminates a
> joint.   Trek did something similar back in the late '80's.  The reason for
> tig welding the head tube comes down to cost.  It's cheaper than lugs both
> in terms of time and materials (lugs + filler metal).
>
> On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 8:01:00 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Pretty nice for a budget bike!
>>
>> Why the tigg'ing at the head tube instead of elsewhere? I suppose it has
>> to do with the economics of building, but can someone explain how this
>> choice affects costs?
>>
>> Also: any ideas why the socketed seat tube cluster instead of some other
>> design? Is this one for style? (Nothing wrong with that, btw.)
>>
>> And I wouldn't mind that Calfee! (But would prefer my 2 Riv custom
>> fixies.)
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Jim M.  wrote:
>>
>>> Stopped by RBW for a few small things today and got to try the
>>> proto-Roadini. Here's an album with some pics: https://goo.gl/photos/uN
>>> uwi6pGPSEJf71w5
>>>
>>> It is a very comfortable bike to ride, as are all Rivs. 46cm chainstay
>>> on this 57cm, so it's longer than a Roadeo and shorter than Clem, etc.
>>> Rides very smooth, corners confidently, and it's easy to envision the miles
>>> easily rolling away under the wheels. When I got on, I checked the barends
>>> for shifters. Not finding any, I reached for the downtube, but what do you
>>> know, it has brifters. This proto is set up with a rapid rise XT derailer,
>>> which I like.
>>>
>>> Interesting new fastback seat lug. Cool headbadge. Grant's shin in one
>>> of the shots. And at the end is the top secret Riv proto carbon fiber
>>> fixie, badged as a Calfee to keep it incognito.
>>>
>>> jim m
>>> walnut creek, ca
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>> LinkedIn, and 

Re: [RBW] Re: The BLAHG, eRivs?

[Grant Petersen]

On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 9:02 AM, drew  wrote:

> I don't know if I would buy one (and since he's already said he's against
> it, it would sorta make me sad) but I think it would be a good move for the
> company and they would sell a lot. It would also help to differentiate the
> models, which are getting pretty overlappy on the dirt and tour side.

Too true, Drew! But---that wasn't the plan-plan. There wasn't actually a
plan-plan, and maybe that steered it in that direction. I've never been a
fan of the one-trick bike or the extreme bike, so the overlappy (I will use
that word a lot from now on) is inevitable. At one time the idea was to
offer foreignese counterparts, just as good but lower priced. That's how
the HunqaLantis and Sam/Homer overlappy.came about. The Roadeo/Roadini
overlappy, same. The differentiation was cost and Country of Origin, but
it's also LIKING or small band of suppliers and not wanting to say NO MORE
FROM YOU!
I'm probably becoming a predictable bore on disc brakes, but still and for
the record, except for the few conditions where it's an obvious benefit to
get the brake away from the tire (mudglop and grit), the rim IS a disc, and
being bigger in diameter, it's more powerful and more effective. Yes, it
can become a wobbly braking surface if you trash your rim, but when you
ride appropriate and good wheels in 2017 how often do you get a wobble?
Once a year, max? Then you deal with it and go back to smoothness for
another few years...
Cars and motorcycles have the disadvantages of weight and speed that rule
out rim brakes, but most bikes (tandems may be an exception) are ideal for
the more mechanically efficient rim brake. Bikes aren't lite versions of
motor vehicles, and adopting motor-technology unnecessarily on bicycles in
order to make them appear more high tech (and when you see disc brakes on
citi-bikes, what else can it be?) is legal and fine and may help sales, but
it's not something we're going to get into. I say this matter-of-factly,
not turgidly or anything.


>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: The BLAHG, eRivs?

[Grant Petersen]

Apologies for the confusing last eight words of my post. It was all fine up
to them..and even I can't figure it out. Oh, language!
("...has to be worked out in 'pedal' mode.") Whaaa--?

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:30 AM, Grant @ Rivendell 
wrote:

> We won't sell eBikes ever--but that is not like me saying, "we won't do
> (pick your heinous thing)." Of course I know that I can speak for RBW as a
> whole, but at some point there's a diff btw my personal deathbed-honest
> opinion--which is generally on my sleeve--and something that falls under
> the general category of "what's good for Rivendell and the gang here, and
> the gang that I hope will take it all forward someday."
>
> My persOPis that I will pedal as long as I can. If this is part of the "I
> shoot film when I don't have to email the photo or put it online
> immediately" me, then..OK, it is part of that. I don't see a perfect direct
> connexion, but there's not a total gap, either. To use the cliche but also
> to totally mean it literally, one of my best friends--the Sean guy in the
> green photo looking back over his shoulder as he coasts down the hill--is
> recovering from an eBike accident. If I was successful in attaching the
> image I sent to him last night, you can see the proof. I've ridden his. I
> hope he'll still go out with me on pedal rides when he recovers!
>
> From a business POV--I feel slightly out of my element making "business"
> decisions--I think  it's enough in this age of strap-on eMotors--to provide
> bikes that allow it without funking up the frame ("funking" is a new great
> word--I hope I made it up) with something that looks jarring or has to be
> worked about in "pedal" mode.
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 11:53:44 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Grant mentioned ebikes again on the BLAHG, and even made a faint
>> reference to a possible future where they would sell one. I know it's not
>> his thing, but he was discussing it in reference to a cycling industry
>> gradually accepting that ebikes are here to stay.
>>
>> So my question. If Rivendell put some bikes together with the latest
>> mid-drive motors with 5 levels of pedal-assist available, would you buy
>> one? We're talking about pedal bikes that can be ridden with low or no
>> assist, not 'hit the throttle and hang on' like a scooter. I think a kitted
>> Clem or Hunqapillar would be fun, plus useful as commuters.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

I should be clear about the future of Sackvilles as I see it/predict it.

There's nothing on my visible horizon, but the two principles there are
aging and there may be another reason that I don't want to say -- that
leads to a retirement of both, and there is no middle-management eager or
able to take over the  business. It's not a humming factory, it's small and
efficient, but the standards required slow things down, and it takes us up
to 2 months to get an order.

If I hear news of the end of Sackvilles, I'll pass it on, and shame on me,
but prices will skyrocket at that time. Right now and since the start,
we've felt compelled to be price-competitive, but that all will fly out the
door eventually. I know how "bad" this candor may sound, but it is the
reality and all I'm doing is saying it.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:58 AM, LeahFoy  wrote:

> There are a lot of opinions on here already, so what's one more?
>
> I have the medium Sackville Saddlesack in tan, though I wish it was gray.
> (The gray came out just after I ordered my tan, and I have long lamented
> it. Gray is my color. Trade ya, anyone?) I also have the tan Backabikes,
> and the gray multipack - all wonderful.
>
> I looked at all the links posted for the other bagmakers, and I don't see
> any competition to the Sackvilles in either aesthetics or function.
> Everything was thought of, and then made beautiful. There are features to
> the bag that I haven't even discovered, so well thought up were the
> Sackvilles. I should NOT be dropping more cash on more bags, but I am *this
> close* after Grant's terrifying hint at the scarcity of the Sackvilles in
> future times. I should not be admitting this to a  group of shameless
> enablers like you! Next thing, you'll be sending replies about how I need
> the large, and then suddenly I'll be on the Riv site, swiping my credit
> card.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

I spelled all of them wrong. I give up on those words.

On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Shawn Granton <
urbanadventurelea...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks! I'm going to save this up for the Grant Petersen spelling bee.
>
> (By the way, you spelled occasions wrong.)
>
> Yours,
> Shawn "Please don't ask about my disastrous showing in my sixth grade
> spelling bee" Granton
>
> Yeah, this electronic communiqué comes from "a device".
> http://urbanadventureleague.wordpress.com/
> http://societyofthreespeeds.wordpress.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/
> http://bikesspottedpdx.tumblr.com/
> Un-electronic communiqués at P O Box 14185, Portland OR 97293-0185
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 16, 2017 18:05, "Grant Petersen" <grant6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm a good speller except for occassions, diahrhea, characature... the CT
> was just a fastly typed typo. I don't sweat the spellings for these posts,
> don't go over them.
>
> On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:18 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Just so's ya knows, if you didn't already, Grant is what you might call a
>> creative grammarist, or a poetic speller. I do not know if that applies in
>> this particular case, but consider, *blug* is not how you spell 
>> *blog*--though
>> it is closer than *blahg*. Here is a recent headline. Try to find the
>> spelling "errors": "Le SLIVER CARNK & below that, some new joe Appaloosa
>> photos." If you search his writing, you'll likely find one or two more
>> examples. But then again, maybe he got it mixed up with Mississippi and all
>> those homogeneous digraphs. If in fact it was a mistake, Grant is minor
>> league compared to the 63 most common mispellings of Connecticut found
>> here <https://www.spellchecker.net/connecticut>. Talk about creative.
>>
>> Mark "not a Connecticuter, Connecticutian, or Nutmegger, but grew up in
>> Northport, NY, right across the Long Island Sound from Norwalk, now living
>> in Beacon, near another long, tidal river" Roland
>>
>> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:42:07 PM UTC-4, Shawn Granton wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>- I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory
>>>(there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) )
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

I'm a good speller except for occassions, diahrhea, characature... the CT
was just a fastly typed typo. I don't sweat the spellings for these posts,
don't go over them.

On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:18 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Just so's ya knows, if you didn't already, Grant is what you might call a
> creative grammarist, or a poetic speller. I do not know if that applies in
> this particular case, but consider, *blug* is not how you spell *blog*--though
> it is closer than *blahg*. Here is a recent headline. Try to find the
> spelling "errors": "Le SLIVER CARNK & below that, some new joe Appaloosa
> photos." If you search his writing, you'll likely find one or two more
> examples. But then again, maybe he got it mixed up with Mississippi and all
> those homogeneous digraphs. If in fact it was a mistake, Grant is minor
> league compared to the 63 most common mispellings of Connecticut found
> here . Talk about creative.
>
> Mark "not a Connecticuter, Connecticutian, or Nutmegger, but grew up in
> Northport, NY, right across the Long Island Sound from Norwalk, now living
> in Beacon, near another long, tidal river" Roland
>
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:42:07 PM UTC-4, Shawn Granton wrote:
>>
>>
>>- I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory
>>(there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) )
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a scramble
for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have a bag
made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that
doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that
contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost
superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and
"forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags
are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only
four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were
higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and
Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one
of them.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Jeff Lesperance 
wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, drew  wrote:
>
>> Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with
>> cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much thicker,
>> quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year.
>>
>>
> I have a Camper (longflap) that I bought in the last two years - I suppose
> it could have been NOS, that has the green canvas and honey leather straps,
> and the straps are thick and robust. I've had two second-hand Carradice
> bags over the past five years, one a Nelson, and one a Camper - both were
> the black fabric with white leather straps IIRC, and the leather on both
> was thin and appeared to scuff and stretch when pulled tight in the buckles
> - I'd not have trusted them to last over years of regular usage. I ended up
> selling those bags, not because of the straps, but they were a concern at
> the time.
>
> -Jeff
> Silver Spring, MD
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: book of possible interest to Rivendell riders

[Grant Petersen]

nine years ago my then 13-year old daughter learned how and showed me how
to make a true quill pen from a thick-stemmed feather. Shape the head right
(see fountain pen) and dip it, and it holds it and doesn't leak. I'm sure
you can get goose or tukey feathers online...

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:

> Get the Safari and if you end up using the fountain pen all of the time,
> then consider upgrading in the future.  My favorite blue ink is Waterman
> serenity blue.  My friend's favorite blue ink is Waterman Mysterious
> blue--a bit darker blue--bit of teal hue.  My favorite black ink is  J
> Herbin Perle Noire.  Both inks are available on Amazon and affordable.
>
> Enjoy,
> Toshi
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Toshi: for a ordinary bloke who just wants a pen that feels nice when he
>> writes: is the Lamy 2000 worth the $100 premium over the price of the
>> Safari?
>>
>> Also: what kind of ink do you fountain pen mavens recommend? (Has to be
>> available in your local Office Depot or on Amazon.)
>>
>> History: For 18 months, 6th and 7th forms, I went to St Joseph's, a
>> Jesuit prep in Bangalore, where we copied teachers' dictation into cheap
>> notebooks and regurgitated it on tests. The only writing instrument was the
>> fountain pen, and all the boys used the cheapest ones possible, basically
>> hollow plastic tubes that unscrewed in the middle, with nibs. You unscrewed
>> the tube, filled the big end with a dropper, and screwed it back together,
>> whereupon the ink would leak from nib and body, and you'd wipe your hand on
>> the whitewashed wall or on your trousers. I may have introduced space age
>> American tech with cheap ball point pens. And the priests used 2' long
>> lengths of slender bamboo as persuaders, though I as the sole American got
>> by with frowns and finger waggings.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>>
>>> I qualify as a fountain pen geek and agree that the Lamy Safari is a
>>> fine pen. My favorite is the Lamy 2000. It writes as well as any pen can
>>> write, and it's discreet because the nib is hooded so it doesn't attract
>>> attention.
>>>
>>> Japanese make wonderful fountain pens too. Pilot pens are my favorites.
>>> For 10 bucks you get a great pen: the Pilot Kakuno. It's a kid's pen but
>>> writes great. For a similar price the Metropolitan looks great but the ink
>>> dries inside the cap too quickly for my taste.
>>>
>>> TWSBI is a Taiwanese maker with great pens at a great price.  The pens
>>> write as well as any steel nibs write and the ink filling mechanism has a
>>> high end construction. The 580 or 700 would be my choice around 70 bucks.
>>>
>>> Gold nibs are gonna send you over $100 and the aforementioned Lamy 2000
>>> or Pilot Custom Heritage 92 would be my choice.
>>>
>>> Writing is wonderful!
>>>
>>> Toshi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 10:17 AM Grant @ Rivendell 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm no fountain pen fanatic, but I know two who are, and they're also
 bike and camera people, so I know it must be dangerous. I have a Waterman
 something-or-other that my mother-in-law gave to me several years ago, and
 since then I've bought three Lamy pens, which are cheap enough--$35 to $45,
 depending on plastic or aluminum--to be sold on those. I may be verifiably
 technically wrong on this next point (and maybe somebody's already said
 it-- I don't know if Lamy pens are a big deal here or not, but I read
 Patrick's mention, so jumped in)--yes, but the thing about fountain pens is
 they seem to have a wider range of writable angles than ball-points, and
 write better at low angles than gel pens. For the unimportant record, I
 love all stationery stuffsand it's been decades since I've bought a pen
 or pencil out of need, but I buy lots of them and use them, because they're
 all so fun, and it's nice to think of businesses dedicated to these
 soon-to-be ancient tools.  I sign about 30 books a month (before they get
 stocked), and I discovered the low-angle abilities of fountain pens that
 way. But then I blow on the ink to make it dry faster. There is that...

 Grant "gimme a Lamy & I'm happy" Petersen


 On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 6:21:57 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Addison: speaking of fountain pens. I'm certainly no collector, but I
 like fountain pens because they're the only writing instrument that allows
 me to write clearly (sort of; my handwriting is very bad) without my hand
 cramping, or else, without the point sliding all over the paper. The
 "glide" and the resistance are in just the right mix.

 But my experience, except for brief ownership of a Parker 51 which my
 daughter dropped nib first on a tile floor, has been with cheap fountain
 pens.

 This is 

Re: [RBW] Re: Grant coached Bike Snob on today's blog post

[Grant Petersen]

It's an option, but it would require more self-promotion than I'm
comfortable with. The original book plan has been modified, and there's
bike content for sure. I probably won't say much about it, to avoid a major
public belly flop...but *I *think it'll be a good one. It's taking forever
because it's another "nights and weekend" book.

On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 8:30 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> These days even established authors such as yourself/Grant are
> self-publishing. It seems to me you could do well down that path. Unless
> your new book is doomer fiction or a children's book  with no bicycle in it
> or something crazy like that. But you've thought of this already.
>
>
> On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 2:32:10 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> BSNYC *was* much-needed and still is. Humor is subjective, but
>> heck--he's pretty funny. He cusses, but in the big picture and certainly
>> now, that's a small deal--and this from somebody who didn't swear once
>> until he was 19, and then only because I trout I'd been working on all
>> evening took the fly and I missed the strike. The last time I was in NY (2
>> months ago, when my publisher formally rejected my new book!) I walked
>> around the park in snowflakes with Eben and -- I already knew him -- but a
>> "walking talk" is a good way to know somebody, better than email or
>> bike-riding talks, even. There is a private Eben and a public one. They're
>> both funny, but the private one talks about family, his children, history
>> and the history of NYC, and the topic of goofy bikes doesn't come up, and
>> he's generally mild. I like both Ebens.
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 11:13:03 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob B disagreed with me and Bob K stated that he's with Patrick and Bob B
>>>
>>> I think the two Bobs might have misunderstood my post.  I think Eben
>>> Weiss is a very talented writer, is very funny, and I think BSNYC is a
>>> great blog.  In my post, I was poking fun at those OTHER people who claim
>>> to dislike Bike Snob.  In my experience, those people who say they don't
>>> like Bike Snob claim to never read Bike Snob, and also claim that he is
>>> never funny.  How can they know he is never funny if they never read him?
>>>
>>> I read Bike Snob every once in a while, find him funny most of the time,
>>> and I think the world is a better place with BSNYC in it.
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Monday, March 27, 2017 at 6:03:07 PM UTC-7, Bob K. wrote:

 I'm with Patrick and Bob B. here. I think the Snob's hilarious and read
 the blog daily. Today's post got a few chuckles out of me. Luckily I didn't
 have a class at the time or my students would've given me strange
 looks--even more so than usual.

 Bob K. in Baltimore

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis now redundant?

[Grant Petersen]

The 2017 Joe Ap forks are Atlantis-weight. The 2016s were between Sam and
Atl. Both are strong..

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Wayne Naha  wrote:

> From the Blug, on the premier of the Joe Appaloosa:
>
>
> If it’s “half Sam, half Hunqa,” howzit different than an Atlantis?
>
> Boy, that’s a good, tough question and the only way to answer it is with
> facts, so here they are:
>
> • Atlantis has a thicker/heavier duty fork. Even though we call the
> Atlantis a road-touring bike, too, the heavier fork make it a heavier duty
> bike. Good for an extra 60lbs or so.
>
>
> So, it's clear that the overlap between the Appaloosa and the Atlantis has
> been known all along, and the main functional distinction is that the
> Atlantis is a heavier duty bike.
> I have always thought that the Sam was a sort of lower cost analog of the
> Homer.  So it made sense to me to think of the Appaloosa as a lower cost
> analog of the Atlantis.  Not exactly the same in either case, but pretty
> close, and for almost half the price.
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 11:07:18 PM UTC-5, Reid wrote:
>>
>> Just read the latest Blug that goes on about the Appaloosa. Seems to make
>> the case that the Appaloosa is better for touring in many cases than the
>> Atlantis, and better for a wider variety of terrain. So why retain the
>> Atlantis?
>>
>> Reid
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant's Other Book

[Grant Petersen]

I'm still with Mary Anderson, and I like that, too.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 2:01 PM, BenG  wrote:

> First time I saw this cover I noted "with Mary Anderson" and I like that.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant's Other Book

[Grant Petersen]

My current publisher isn't interested, and an agent I know says the
internet has made it obsolete. I don't think so. People still hold paper
now and then, and it sold well back then and would do better now. When it
was current, I had a lot of credit cqrd debt and checking account overdraft
charges, and the only lasting thing I bought with the royalties was a
Yamaha studio upright piano for my wife, and it's ten feet from me right
now. A reprint would take maybe 80 hours to update, and I don't have the
time. But the topographies are unchanged, and the brief road descriptions
are...in most cases still current, and the 80 hours would go mostly to
adding maybe 20 more roads and making sure Road X didn't now intersect
another road, or that urban sprawl hadn't completely obliterated all
bucolic-ness of some of the nicer roads.

If I knew somebody trusty and not weird who had time to update it and would
do it "to spec, with a short freedome leash" and agree to 25 percent of the
royalties, and do the work on speculation with a modest kill fee if it
didn't get published, I'd set that ball in motion...but it's a longshot.
Mark here should do it. He'd be perfect, but I don't think he'd be
interested.

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Max S  wrote:

> As a Bay Area expat living in the Midwest, still regularly visiting the
> Bay Area, I would love to have both tomes. Any chance of a reissue /
> electronic version?..
>
> - Max
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Grant's Other Book

[Grant Petersen]

Ben Davis "Can't Bust 'em" sticker. Yes, a Ritchey (good eye)--lugged and
crowned from '77.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:44 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Double bandana! Bike with sticker! Regular clothes! Beginnings of S24O! A
> watch! I have little doubt there is an ax somewhere off-camera. Is that a
> Ritchey logo on the head tube of that bike? (Love the color.)
>
>
> On Thursday, February 23, 2017 at 5:37:51 PM UTC-5, danmc wrote:
>>
>> Here you go!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

[Grant Petersen]

Nobody here keeps score, but for the record...if we had a thousand Patrick
Moores, we'd be fat and gorgeous.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> One -- I won't say problem, but one factor affecting a decision to buy
> from Rivendell or from another online vendor or from a LBS or used or
> whatever, is the "style" of merchandise. I'm fortunately at the time of
> life and at the period in my bike tastes that I have most of what I want,
> and my needs are very, very particular. I have my own likes and dislikes
> about bikes, riding style, and cycling clothing, and my only "generic"
> needs are almost commodity items -- cables, housing, ferrules, sealants,
> lubes, and so forth.
>
> Rivendell offers a very distinct "style" of bicycles and clothing and
> accessories, and for the most part they are not what I want. I'd happily
> order more if the inventory was more to my taste. Also, I'd happily order a
> Roadeo, a Hunq (maybe; I'd want to convert it to disc brakes), a Legolas
> perhaps a Clem, *if* I had the money, but these would be outlier items,
> not the focus of my riding preferences.
>
> As for the generic things, I can buy them as cheaply at LBS's and support
> local businesses.
>
> I suppose my Rivendell-fandom is largely coasting on the 3 customs I've
> ordered, and on the wonderful Wooly Warm outer jersey -- ragg knit?--  with
> tall button collar, rear pockets, trim but not tight cut -- wonderful over
> a base wool LS jersey at temps from, say, 45F down to 35F. If Riv still
> offered that vest in the same style, I'd truly weigh it against an Ibex.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Evan E.  wrote:
>
>> No matter how often we discuss this topic of right livelihood -- maybe
>> once a year? -- I always find it interesting.
>>
>> By and large, I try to buy merchandise from Rivendell and to buy labor
>> from my LBS. Once in a while, I'll buy an item from an online merchant,
>> particularly if, per Grant's post above, said merchant sounds like an
>> actual business with actual staff, and, yes, if it offers a good deal on
>> something (such as VP Vice pedals) that Riv and my LBS don't stock.
>>
>> I love Rivendell and I love the people there, so I do support them. But
>> today all I have in my Riv shopping cart is ferrules and two tubes. I don't
>> need the tubes. And I've already loaded up on various parts, books,
>> bandannas, and pine tar soap. But come to think of it (duh), maybe I should
>> buy a gift certificate to use toward future purchases. That would give Riv
>> some cash flow -- an advance of sorts. Right?
>>
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>
>
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> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: VP Pedals on sale

[Grant Petersen]

ON LBS or ONLINE or combo:

Not all ONLINERS are alike. At one extreme there is the late-20s guy who
never left the house or ramped up his resume, but he got  into bikes, and
cleared the hurdles to getting a reseller's permit. He eats and sleeps
iwhether or not he sells anything, but he likes to stay busy and the
correspondence and attention that comes with the business. His super low
prices come with non-immediate shipping because he doesn't stock anything,
so his theoretical inventory is sold before he orders it.   This is legal
and honest work, but the sale benefits one person who's not even in need.

At the other extreme there must be oversalaried suppliers who underpay
their employees and offer no benefits, and who jack up prices because on
principle they have to cover the top-heavy salaries, and the underpaid
staff is totally dispensible because customers can educate themselves
online, or something...and the staff never has to interact.

RBW is between those. We're in one of two low-rent buildings in a town
where, if you didn't buy a home 25 years ago with some family help, you
won't be able to working here. We pay better-than-bikeshop wages and offer
"gunning for google" benefits. We buy as direct and sell as direct as
possible to keep prices down, but if every puchase comes down to price,
we're no match for the pajama-clad brat with a computer and a day to win
the game. Then we're left with frames and bags and we layoff 11 of 14
employees. I think we got into this at the right time, but it doesn't seem
to be the right time anymore. We're trimming the menu and the cut items
won't be replaced. We're on an inventory-spending budget that means we'll
be more often out of stock. This stuff goes on all over the world, but is
just really obvious when the lake you thought your canoe was in is actually
a river and the waterfall's right over there.

We also have costs the extremes (or an LBS) doesn't have, because so much
of what we offer is our design, made for us, and we're picky about
materials and construction. The USA-available waxed cotton is 65 percent as
good as the Sackville Scottish cotton, but every time we order the
Scotstuff, we have a $9,000 bill and another $1,500 for freight to
Connecticut. There's a similar story for almost everything we "make." I've
understood this the whole time, and I don't mind, because it's the only way
we can stay in business. It doesn't work to buy Shimano derailers for $60,
then try to compete with online prices of $62. A non-businessperson would
think that's a $2 profit...

Whatever Alex at Yellow Haus (or James at Gravel & Grind) or John at Rivelo
charges for anything--it's the right price. We're all just licking the
bowls these days trying to hang in and hoping something changes. (I don't
mean to say I know their money woes, but it is impossible for them not to
worry every day.

It's hard to stay on top of everything the experts say we have to do to
stay alive. Have a device-friendly website? OK. Two clicks to the shopping
cart, and one click to buy? That's harder. Just-in-time inventory is
impossible. If Toyota couldn't do it in 1988, Rivendell sure can't do it
now.



On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 1:08 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Christopher Murray
>
> I agree with you.  Who suggested that it is OK to be impolite?  You sound
> like you are replying to my post.  Let me quote my own post:
>
> *"You definitely didn't deserve to get attitude from the salesperson, and
> you should not buy from people who give you attitude"*
>
> That was me saying it is not OK to be impolite.  You should not suggest
> that I approve of retail people being impolite.  I do not approve of it.  I
> went on to say:
>
> *"It was unfair to you, because he assumed you were doing to him the same
> thing that the previous 19 people did"  *
>
> That was me saying again that it is not OK for retail salespeople to be
> impolite.  Who said it was OK?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 12:46:33 PM UTC-8, Christopher Murray
> wrote:
>>
>> Ha! No way. I'm the customer and any store employee should treat me in a
>> polite and respectful manner. It's not my problem what the 19 people before
>> me did and to suggest otherwise is laughable. I've worked more than my
>> share of retail. It's not that difficult to be polite-- let's not act like
>> it is. I'm sorry if someone is frustrated but if they are taking that
>> frustration out on the next customer they are probably in the wrong line of
>> work.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: RIVEOPARDY

[Grant Petersen]

Dream was good, probably acceptable given the "low car.." clue, instead of
carb.

tree to bike: MY answer was cork, but rubber (one person)--that's as good
or better!

snap prone fork is carbon, but one sharpshooter had aluminum, and...kind of
works, too.

if I were a dumb millionaire (for the record, even if I accept "dumb" I
don't qualify!)-- answer was 603, but there could be other answers

favorite answer was "bandana" for equally good undies for hobo or
billionairre. I meant wool, but hard to not like bandana.

required for car but not for bike: could be many things. I'd intended disc
brakes, but there were 6-7 other answers that worked--speedometer, rear
view mirror, glove box (marginal, since Ford won't get sued if they didn't
include one)..

Only one response so far to Dave's Roughy Toughy Semi-Genuine one. I
flunked it, but there's a dead-eye amongst you who either missed zero or
two, depending on how Dave grades it...which goes back to his experience in
school, whether he jogged left or right.


On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Dave Johnston  wrote:

> In 2016 I decided to re-read all the readers, I'm up to RR28 right now, so
> I had an advantage.
>
>  I thought I got all of them right but Grant's posted answers disagreed
> with 3 of them. STI is clearly wrong (it was SIS). 26" was king of the
> American road from 1930 to 1960s, but I'll give them that it is not quite
> nearly dead (the industry is just trying). I might be wrong that 32° means
> holes instead of spokes.
>
> I wikipedia'd Buckwheat and recognized Soba instantly as I have one on my
> Ram. I thought it might be Dove as high carb but the girlfriend who has a
> dove on her San Marcos made the squab connection and helped with the MUSA
> connection. Anyway I got a small store credit!
>
> -Dave
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: MUSA? Completely gone? Coming back?

[Grant Petersen]

Clothing companies with staff designers can please more people than bicycle
companies trying their hand at clothing, that's for sure. Making one style
and fit of anything and trying to fit the O's and I's, the short and tall,
the ones who like a tailored fit and the ones who don't, and that's even
before style and colors join in--- is more challenging than it may seem.
Reality is harder than theory. I'm off of this topic--back to bikes, point
made I hope.

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Which pants are you referring to? MUSA?
>
> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 6:16 AM, Garth  wrote:
>
>>   The pants seemed a bit odd to me.  For one, for a company  that
>> promotes wearing "normal" clothes the pants with the reflectors and large
>> velcro straps reminded me of a fireman's pant,  not a "normal" looking pant
>> at all.  For comparison, he Compass knicker looks like a  normal knicker
>> anyone would wear any place.
>>
>>The cut of them could be improved too, a good pair of pants is as well
>> thought out as a say a good frame is.  Can you please everyone ?  Yes,
>> absolutely, and the idea that you cannot is nonsensical.
>>
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>
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>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver 2 shifters

[Grant Petersen]

Reginald! You're still around! I associate you with my garage and holding
my then toddler old Anna like a football when trying to work...that was
your era. Thanks for hanging in!

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 1:37 PM, R. Alexis  wrote:

> Those shifters look nice. Look forward to seeing how the final product
> will look. I will definitely get a couple sets. I would get the current
> Silver V.1 shifters, but It has just been within the last couple years that
> I mounted the Suntour Sprint, shifters on my Schwinn Voyageur so I don't
> see a need at the moment to stock up. I got those way back just before
> Rivendell got some and started offering them when I worked at a local bike
> shop. I have been mulling over the idea of rebuilding my Rivendell Mountain
> with a set of S.O.S. (Silver on Soma) thumb shifters along with Phil Wood
> Rivy hubs etc, but I a hesitant to redo the Suntour XC-Pro, Wilderness
> Trail Bikes build on it already. May be a new Rivendell build out is in
> order.
>
> Reginald Alexis
>
> On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 1:08:31 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> The BLUG has a long write up and description of the Silver 2 shifters.
>> One big take home is the Silver 1 shifter mold is shot, so those will be
>> going away.  So, if you love Silver shifters, stock up now.  The Silver 2
>> looks like it'll be a way better thumb shifter, a somewhat better barcon
>> shifter, and an amusingly ironic downtube shifter.  Most importantly (to
>> me), is that if you want to embolden Rivendell Bicycle Works to keep
>> putting their money where their brains are, then reward them by buying a
>> pair or two of Silver 2's and put them into your personal inventory.  When
>> the need arises, get them from your stock.  If Riv gets a lot of early
>> adopters buying them, then they'll have the confidence and the money to
>> make the next part that you can't get anywhere else.  Grant tells you on
>> the BLUG how to get on an email list for updates on the Silver 2.
>>
>> Bill habitual-early-adopter Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
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Re: [RBW] blug notes

[Grant Petersen]

I  truly and not patronizingly accept and celebrate all the different
points of view. It's what you do with them. Non-believers can be mean or
nice, same as believers. Variety is good! (And, my own opinions have
changed over the years, too.) This is a terrific group. I don't frequents
lists, but I can't imagine there's a better-kinder-and better-facilitated
(thanks, Jim) one than this. G

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Tim Butterfield 
wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 8:29 PM, 'Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> I cannot fathom anyone disagreeing with any part of that. Those are not
>> Republican or Democratic beliefs in my mind, just good human ones.
>>
>
> You may only be looking at the summary of the items and not all of the
> detail within them.  Or, you might agree with all of it.  Choice is great.
>  :)  Taken as a whole, it is mostly agreeable, but I cannot accept the
> whole of it when I look at the details.
>
> The list also includes a religious belief, the religion of the
> infallibility of science instead of the Bible.  I don't believe in the
> evolution of humans or of systems in general and the single cell is a very
> complex system.  The bicycle is a system.  Even something basic like a seat
> can have rails, suspension, post, etc.  If you have just a seat, is that a
> bicycle?  Of course not.  Even if you add just the two wheels to that seat,
> it is still not a bicycle.  The bicycle is a relatively simple system made
> up of many interacting components.  Leave some out and it's not a bicycle.
> I feel the same way about the cell, which has DNA, RNA, protein motor
> processing, cell walls which know to let some things through but not
> others.  How would DNA have developed without the protein motor to process
> it or without the cell wall to protect it?  My disbelief in evolution goes
> further back than that.  What went bang and why did it go bang then and not
> a trillion infinities before then?  If there were some cyclical process,
> some stars having escape velocity would have reduced mass sufficiently over
> the infinity of time that it would eventually end up back where we
> started?  What went bang and why then?
>
> I do believe in the Bible including the account of creation, but not in
> the 24 hour day interpretation that is often heard.  If you heard someone
> start a sentence with "In my father's day, ...", would you assume there was
> only one?  Of course not.  To me, and in the Bible, the term day can refer
> to an unspecified period of time, not just to a 24 hour period.  To think
> of it another way, before the luminaries were created and the planet earth,
> how was a 'day' defined?  A day, in the 24 hour definition, is only
> applicable after our sun and earth were used to define them.  Any way, I do
> believe in a common ancestry and that all of humanity are related.  I also
> think it is great the variety of people there are.  We love variety in food
> and flowers.  Variety in people is great also.
>
> I also believe in the freedom of choice, though I do not always agree with
> what everyone does with that freedom.  There are nits I can pick with many
> of these items.  For example, how about if instead of learning books, we
> learned things about the environment right outside our door?  I would
> assert learning about the plants and animals around us is of more value
> than books, picture or otherwise.  It's not that these don't have their
> place.  Of course they do.  But, I'm not sure it safe to say that by doing
> X of the one, we can ignore the other, or about what the best ratio of
> learning about such variety is or how that best accomplished.  Much of that
> may depend on the child and how they best learn things.  As other items
> mention, one size does not fit all.
>
> I do not want to debate this, but wanted to offer an explanation of why I
> did not agree with 100% of it.  It's one of the freedoms I enjoy, the
> freedom to not agree with everything.  I do agree with much, though there
> are are some nits throughout I would pick at, some of which are mentioned
> here.  Sorry, Grant.
>
> Tim
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver 2 shifters

[Grant Petersen]

The pricing of Silver parts and kits is "non-strategic" and is supposed to
be person-friendly, so you don't feel like a bad money-manger for buying
components separately. A critic could see the whole shebang price as not
offering any discount, but we go at it from the other way. It's hard to
apply the same coat of paint to all items and circumstances--like, we
often-especially-these-days try to offer early-buyer prices, or "faith
buyer" prices to those who pay for bikes or frames before then arrive. That
pricing is driven entirely by my wanting my wife, who pays bills, to have a
less miserable existence.In the early years I was fouling up the books
myself, and that, combined with a brand new baby was some incentive to drop
out of her job as assistant head of a school (which had tons of
future-promise) and stay home, watch baby, do RBW books).
But she hates it and works uncomplainingly and fails to hide her stress at
crunch time. That leads to early-pay discounts and less guilt for me and
less stress for her.
It all works out! Except that RBW derailed her from what would have been a
more satisfying life...alas, and boo on me for that.

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Lee Legrand  wrote:

> Bill is right.
>
> That is what happened when I order the kit.  The shifters and pods were
> added to the kit list but they all had zero dollars, except the kit. I get
> mine Monday.
>
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Not exactly true.  You do need a different shifter washer thingy for
>> bar-end setup vs downtube setup, but when you buy the kit, you get BOTH.
>> Put item #17089 in your basket and you will see what I mean.  When you buy
>> the bar-end KIT in your basket, all it does it put a set of downtube
>> shifters in your basket (which has the right washer thingy for downtube)
>> and it puts a set of bar end pods in your basket (which has the right
>> washer thingy for bar-end setup).  You can use them either way and you have
>> a set of extra washer thingies for setting them up the other way later.
>>
>> If you bought a complete bike with barend shifters and want to move them
>> to downtube, then you'll need to go buy the right washer thingies.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 1:03:50 PM UTC-7, Dave Johnston wrote:
>>>
>>> If you buy the bar end kit you should buy the "little travel stop
>>> washer thingy " to go along with it for downtube use. Riv sells that
>>> piece separately. It is round with a tab that stick out and a square
>>> hole that fits over your frame boss.
>>>
>>> On 11/4/16, masmojo  wrote:
>>> > A few things:
>>> > First, yes the bar end Silver Shifters are basically the same thing as
>>> the
>>> > downtube shifters, with the bar end pods. But,it should be noted that,
>>> the
>>> > bar end pod replaces the little travel stop washer thingy that cones
>>> with
>>> > the Silver Shifters when ordered in the downtube configuration. So
>>> it's the
>>> > same, just different.
>>> > You could use the silvers on a 10 speed cluster, if you have a
>>> suitable
>>> > derailleur, but you might want to use something like the Wolftooth
>>> Tanpan to
>>> > handle the needed additional cable travel. I personally just used the
>>> new
>>> > Dia-Compe 11s shifter that VO is selling, downtube & shifts smooth as
>>> butter
>>> > with the XTR derailleur.
>>> > I have the SS1s on my Drakkar & I love'em, but they do stick out
>>> rather a
>>> > lot when mounted on bar pods and I have nastily poked people (not on
>>> > purpose) with them while riding the train. I  welcome the new
>>>  compacty,
>>> > ergoness!
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>>
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Re: [RBW] New BLUG post! Frank Jones Sr

[Grant Petersen]

JIm, you win the covered HUH Prize, as the first responder to a contest
most didn't know was a contest! I will send you something in the mail
designed to elicit the same response again!

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 10:12 AM, James Warren 
wrote:

> huh
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 27, 2016, at 9:09 AM, "Grant @ Rivendell" 
> wrote:
>
> The only lug that doesn't allow angle-versatility is the CLEM lug, which
> is why we got the curvy seat stays--so we could make the chainsays the
> length we wanted. The upper seat stay socket is cast into the lug, so isn't
> variable. But structurally, it is SUPER.
> The lug and seat stay cap combo below (two pieces--the lug; the "sta-cap")
> allows a million degrees of rotation, so there's no limit to the angle. It
> has a neo-funqui look to it that I am warming up to because I see the
> structural advantages and some building possibilities, but right now, for
> me and for anybody who's gotten used to a normal side-of-lug attachment,
> it's TAKES some getting used to. It requires the same amount of brazing as
> a normal connection. Shown is the external cap, but there will be an
> internal one, too--Fancy and Plain.
> I promise to St. Peter that if this style was around in 1931 or whatever,
> most subsequent bikes would have been made with it, but it's kind of odd
> that it's coming out in 2017, when, if you were to ask the next pro-clad
> bike rider you see "What's a seat lug?" he'd give you a three-letter,
> one-syllabel, palindromic answer!
>
> On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 7:27:50 AM UTC-7, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> I'm wondering about this, at the bottom of the BLUG post:
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>>
>> So, are the seat stay caps separate from the rest of the lug, then brazed
>> into the sockets on the back of the seat lug?  If so, that could be a good
>> way to build bikes of differing geometries with a single seat lug casting.
>>
>> The specific stay exit angle of the seat lug is what caused the Clem's
>> bendy seat stays; the desired lug didn't offer the correct stay angle to
>> match the lng chainstays.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Richard Rios 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a rad project. Blug says it will be drop bar compatable so
>>> I'm guessing tt length should be reasonable. Wonder if it will be TiG or
>>> lugs though?
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver 2 shifters

[Grant Petersen]

This is an early version of the tightener screw. I'm not sure I like the
options it provides--rather confusing. The current one has a pentalobe head
(google it until we get the newer version up there).

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> I hope they keep the D rings. So convenient for on the bike tightening!!
> No screwdriver necessary!!!
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver 2 shifters

[Grant Petersen]

If now and then or from the start we call them Thimble Shifters---if we or
I EVER do--Ryan gets a free pair.
Since 'tis the season for voting, the polls are open till Saturday at 10
o'clock California time.

Silver THIMBLES

The SILVER part is alredy in the genes. That's the brand. Model would be
THIMBLE, and maybe we'd use THIMBLE only for the thumb-operated style.

so you can vote anonymously without hurting Ryan's feelings, email
gr...@rivbike.com directly, and only if you like THIMBLE. No other
suggestions, please, no explanations, I'm not going to open up the email
unless you say THIMBLE OPEN, and then, sure, whatever. But I'm looking for
a certain undisclosed number between 45 and 48. That's the threshhold.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 3:45 PM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> I like the old down tube style ones and the new thimble ones. Both are
> nice.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver 2 shifters

[Grant Petersen]

Downtube shifters are so much better than the original Campy shifters that
were mounted on the seat stays. But even they were breakthroughs for the
time--for the first time ever, a rider should shift remotely. We have a
bike here with those "Cambio Corsa" shifters, and anybody who comes by can
try it. It's a mindblowing.crackup.

But it WAS the first cable-actuated shifter, so you didn't have to get off
the bike and change gears on a stopped bike with your fingers.

Putting shifters on the downtube made shifting 10,000 percent easier, and
if you think that's an exagerration, you just haven't shifted the Cambio
Corsa.


Shifters could have stopped at the downtube, but whether it's a good,
excellent, or fantastic place to shift depends on how far away they are,
the state of your lower back, and how smooth the terrain is. They're pretty
good for low-bar road bikes, because you're already leaning, and reaching
down there is actually relaxing.

But whether you ride an upright or a drop bar, when the bars are higher the
reach is longer and they're less convenient. So, as you do the things that
generally increase comfort and get the bars higher, your hands get farther
away from them, so it's less convenient.   Since our bikes are skewed for
comfort (at no expense anywhere else, of course I'd say...), it wouldn't
make sense to invest in a "classically shaped" downtube shifter.

We do have Silver-1's in...and Dia-Compe has the Campyish ENE downtuber,
and Shimano still makes 'em--probably for triathletes--and those are all
great shifters.

So it just made sense for us to develop a shifter that works on the
downtube while looking out of place with the classics; and works great as
inboard or outboard thumbies, bar-ends, or the underestimated
ultra-position on the sleeves of a drop bar.

Anyway...they're not meant to be divisive. We sunk our loot and time into a
shifter we're jazzed about, and it will do no harm and won't exactly
duplicate what's already out there, which is also key..!

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 7:19 PM, Dave Johnston  wrote:

> For the downtube you could always get the ENE Ciclo Gran Compe Downtube
> Shifters. I think they look cooler and they haven't been made for 17 yrs so
> presumable the mold isn't near wearing out.
>
> http://store.somafab.com/enecidosh.html
>
> Hard to believe we have choices in new friction shifters.
>
> -Dave
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> The BLUG has a long write up and description of the Silver 2 shifters.
>> One big take home is the Silver 1 shifter mold is shot, so those will be
>> going away.  So, if you love Silver shifters, stock up now.  The Silver 2
>> looks like it'll be a way better thumb shifter, a somewhat better barcon
>> shifter, and an amusingly ironic downtube shifter.  Most importantly (to
>> me), is that if you want to embolden Rivendell Bicycle Works to keep
>> putting their money where their brains are, then reward them by buying a
>> pair or two of Silver 2's and put them into your personal inventory.  When
>> the need arises, get them from your stock.  If Riv gets a lot of early
>> adopters buying them, then they'll have the confidence and the money to
>> make the next part that you can't get anywhere else.  Grant tells you on
>> the BLUG how to get on an email list for updates on the Silver 2.
>>
>> Bill habitual-early-adopter Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
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Re: [RBW] Silver 2 shifters

[Grant Petersen]

We send the place an SLA file and they make it in 3D plastic. It's in
SoCal, called...ForeCast, I think. It's a good way to go before metal..!

On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Grant
>
> In the BLUG post, the sample/prototype looks like a white plastic.  Was
> that white plastic sample made by 3D printing?  Or was it an SLA(*)?  Or
> did some artisan carve something?  I know the actual shifters will be
> aluminum, and I think it's cast aluminum.  Is that right?
>
> (*) SLA does not mean Symbionese Liberation Army in this context.  It's
> stereolithography-something.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 9:14:03 AM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> Short answer is: New washers seem fine. Longer answer is below.
>>
>> THey're still not breakproof, but they're a different plastic than the
>> early ones, and none of these has broken. I've got a bristly take on those
>> washers, probably not a popular one, but here it is--
>>
>> Plastic (of some sort) is an ideal material for a spacer/washer for this
>> use. The old cruddy plastic was good enough unless it was abused, and when
>> it failed the shifter still worked...and plastic failure posed to rider
>> risk. Any hardware store has flat, wave, and split washers that can slide
>> right in there and be a metal substitute and work well, but if one's thumbs
>> are as big as one's big toes and the rest of the fingers are proportional,
>> this rig can prove a little fussy, and it lacks the "key" that fits into
>> the rectangular hole. (Tho once in place, it's solid). But Plastic Washer
>> #2 has, so far after 4 years, proven to work 100 percent without breaking).
>>
>> This doesn't mean the first was defo. It was exactly the same as the
>> original washer in the SunTour shifter. It just means it's more
>> "America-proof."
>>
>> We sell those washers cheap in pairs, and it's those washers that'll go
>> in the Silver-2 shifters. So they could be bought as backups, but
>> considering their track record so far and the low-risk of a failure, buying
>> more than one set of replacement washers is just supplying your heirs with
>> tiny nothings to toss "later on."
>>
>> On a more personal level and if I can NOT speak for RBW for a second: I
>> LIKE stuff that can wear out or break (as long as it's not constant) and
>> that can be replaced and made good as new again. I did it for years with
>> Campagnolo parts, and ball bearings in general, now and then a cup or a
>> cone race.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 15, 2016 at 9:54:36 AM UTC-7, Conway Bennett wrote:
>>>
>>> G,
>>>
>>> Have you solved the wimpy plastic washer issue?  Maybe a thick hard
>>> rubber?  I remember there were two types of action figures growing up:
>>> brittle Gi joes who's thumbs broke off and these heartier more maliable
>>> super heroes with a similar but durable Kung fu grip.  I don't know why
>>> silvers 1s trigger this memory but that's where my mind goes.  In any case,
>>> I learned my lesson and stocked up as I have silver 1s on noodles and cycle
>>> thru them and chalk it up to regular maintenance.
>>>
>>> FW,
>>>
>>> CBB
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Silver 2 shifters

[Grant Petersen]

They'll be good replacements, yep. The ghost shifts--up in the mid and
upper range, it may take two clicks to lock the gear in. It works...but it
can be a challenge. I doubt I'll change my CLEMshifters, but they are a
transitional species, maybe.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Reid  wrote:

> So can the S2s be used as a replacement for the stock shifters that came
> on the Clems? My wife has a Clementine that she just LOVES, but the stock
> shifters have always given lots of "ghost" shifts, as discussed on this
> list some time back. I would sure like to replace the shifters with
> something that would be mounted in the same place for easy shifting, but
> that would not have the problems.
>
> Reid
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: ROADINI tease on the BLUG

[Grant Petersen]

Road 700x44 is Sam.
Roadini is a cheap Rodeo, for the most part. It'll fit med-reach (around
54-55mm) brakes.
(I use "cheap" in a celebratory, not degrading way!)

Sidepulls (or Paul bolt-on)

B/O for Mark's Rack, but single rear eyelet below, so as not to encourage
the fashionable monster front loads.

Big picture addition is: Let's say you've got your everyday
commuter-trail-tourish bike with fenders, racks, kickstand, basket, voodoo
dolls and stuffed animals, and you love the bike, and you end up doing this
to all of your bikes (this is autobiographical, but it works that way for a
lot of people here, and probably out there, too). Well, at some point, the
bike should force you to rein it all in---not as much as a track bike or a
Cervelo-type bike, but a little, and the Roadini will. Two eyelets in the
rear, one in front, midfork, mid seat stay.

Completes will be doubles, and we're hoping they'll all be cheap enough to
allow people who even KIND of want one to get one.





On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Ryan Ray  wrote:

> Road 700x44 would be reeeaaay nice :)
>
> - Ryan
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 9:54 AM Belopsky 
> wrote:
>
> Same as in, 51,55,58,62? Will be interesting to see this - I imagine we're
> months out from more info
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 12:51:42 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell
> wrote:
>
> The Rodin theme was too obvious to adopt, but it was always in the
> background. It'll likely be a frame only, but we're thinking about whole
> bike, and that's not ruled out. Maybe some of each. It may follow CLEM and
> have a seat lug. Sam is already a good road bike, but the clearances big
> you to fill them up with a huge "road?" tire, and Rodini won't allow that.
> Up to 35mm, probably.
> Our bike certainly are not inexpensive, but they cannot possibly be any
> less expensive without do-featuring/de-cooling them or replacing the staff
> with wealthy philanthropists or unemployables!
> I think Will and Roman picked the colors. Same sizes as Sam.
>
> On Friday, October 7, 2016 at 12:02:36 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> His first name is Leo.  He apparently has paws.  Your Roadini that you buy
> next summer may have a fake panel.  So far, nothing not to like
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Thank you and "Enjoy the Ride!"

[Grant Petersen]

If DP was sincere (and we all believe he was), then I doubt he's sitting
home reading the gush and glowing...which isn't to say slow down on it,
just that...he might not be actually reading it.

I asked him to call and he did and I said *whuddup*, and he sounded as he
always has (we've spoken to him A LOT over the years), and I asked if there
was an event that lead to this, or like, if he was reacting to something
somebody may have said or something, and he laughed that off and said
No-Tho I don't remember his exact words, he said something along
the lines of he just wanted to spend less time online. Remember, he has had
a remarkable life and continues to live a life much different than most of
us do, and it's not a surprise that he OD's at a lower dose than the rest
of us. He seemed as happy as ever, I'm glad to report!

G

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 12:58 PM, RichS  wrote:

> DP, there isn't much more to say after so many kind words have been
> extolled by the group. It's touching and deeply felt. Wishing you all the
> best and if you ever decide on a second act here you'll be welcome with
> open arms and many grins:) :) ;) :) :)
>
> Take care!
> Richard
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[Grant Petersen]

It's one chain, just more links. Most chains come 114 or 116 links. The
60cm Cheviot has a 56cm chainstay (our longest) and typically uses 123
links...so, to be clear, eradicate all heads of visions of double chain
shenannigans. It is true that when you buy a boxe chains you have to buy
two of them. But you use only ten links of the second (about 8 percent of
it), so for the next eleven chain changes, you can buy just one chain &
keep using the surplus from the first second chain.

This next is a minor point, but a longer chainstay reduces chain angles and
so minimizes friction and makes any chain last longer.  Anyway, the ride
and function should trump the cost of an extra chain that'll continue to
feed to stubs of it for a decade or more!
We can still count you out, Eric--easy come/easy go--but I thought this
point was worth clarifying.
G


On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Eric  wrote:

> If I have to use two chains...count me out!
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any benefits to the longer CS's?

[Grant Petersen]

"Rocks in the top of the engine" is a phantastik fraze---I just wish it
were more versatile so I could plug it in here and there during the day.

On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Doesn't it all depend on how many rocks are in the top of the engine? I'm
> top heavy just because of all the granite between my ears! Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 7:26:53 PM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> Steve, from here it looks like you are at the exact midpoint between your
>> basic unicycle and your tandem recumbent. (Maybe a *smidge* toward TR.)
>>
>>>
>>> How big is "bigger"?  And where does "mid-sized" end and "bigger"
>>> begin?   I'd like to think my 59-60 cm frames are at the high end of
>>> "mid-sized" but not yet across the "BIG" boundary...
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Talk to me about bottom brackets

[Grant Petersen]

"The hard, cheap, Indian threading way, using Vise Grips for the lockring
and a nail and hammer for the cup" is one of the most fantastic
descriptions of anything I've ever read. Good point about Ashtabula cranks.
A guy came by the other day with one of those, and of course it was on a
ten-year old hundred-dollar (today's dollars) bike, but it was pared down
to nothing, not an unnecessary molecule of metal on it, and ... I though
wow, kind of neat. Bigger and more bearings inside would be good, but has
anybody ever ridden one of these guys to destruction?
No need to start a kickstarter campaign to bring back the bad-ol'
Ashtabula, but ... they are no laughing stocks.

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I learned to adjust left-side cups the hard way, cheap, Indian threading,
> using Vise Grips for the lockring and a nail and hammer for the cup. But I
> did get them adjusted.
>
> Interesting, at least the older British Racing Tricycles use leftside bb
> cups and lockrings at each inside end to adjust bearing play on the axle
> stubs. That's awkward, because you can't get in front of the assembly
> face-on, as you can with a bottom bracket.
>
> As for longevity: I hear that Campy and perhaps old Dura Ace cup and cone
> bb assemblies last as long as anything else out there? I do know that I've
> ridden at least 2 Phils in heavy rain and grit and, in one case, even
> submerged one in 2' of water, with no problems. But I too would probably
> choose a SKS for really heavy duty use.
>
> My vote for the best value-for-money crank/bb bearing assembly type is the
> Ashtabula; I wonder if these could be refined and lightened? Carbon fiber?
> But, in any event, they seem indestructible, even after riding through
> streams and watching muddy water flow out upon emerging.
>
> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Grant Petersen <grant6...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> The final adjustment takes some skill and time and experience and feel,
>> which is why nobody uses these as original equiment anymore. It cannot be
>> done with power tools, and you don't want a first-timer adjusting your bb.
>> Any conscientious individual can do it just fine, but it'll take many tries
>> and retries to nail the adjustment, because as you tighten the lockring
>> against the shell, it has the effect of pulling out (loosening) the
>> adjustment. So, you get what seems like a perfect adjustment, then you go
>> to lock it in and it loosens, and it loosens because the adjustable cup
>> gets pulled outward, away from the bearings.
>>
>> The skill and feel come in by knowing how too-tight to make it to account
>> for the loosening, and different bottom brackets and frames will require
>> different amounts. You sometimes try to hold the adjustable cup's
>> adjustment with the pin tool as you lock it there with the lockring, but
>> sometimes tightening the lockring makes the adjustable cup move, anyway.
>> It's the opposite of Plug-n-Play, but the thing is, it is NOT THAT HARD as
>> long as you don't require perfection on your first-thru-fourth tries. As a
>> home mechanic, you need to buy some tools. The fixed cup should be put in
>> with a shop tool, and new bike shops might not even have those anymore. The
>> cheap tools are the lockring tool and pin tool, and in the old days you
>> could get them both for $30 combined, but I don't know what it is these
>> days, and a normal bike shop won't stock them.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Talk to me about bottom brackets

[Grant Petersen]

Here's one, and forgive my continued warning. I promise you this is not
good old fashioned reverse psychology.

This style emerged because it's simple and it works. It got extinguished in
the late '80s or early '90s NOT because after a hundred or more years some
smart modern mechanic found a flaw that all before him or her had
overlooked, but because they're a minor pita to learn how to adjust.
There's the theory of adjustment, which is simple and is this:

The fixed cup on the drive side goes in with a shop tool, and crank it hard.
Grease the cup and/or the ringed bearings, then place them
balls-facing-outward in the cup.
While your fingers or brush is greasy, you might as well grease the
adjustable/non-drive side cup and bearings, too. While you're at it, get
grease on the cones (bearing surfaces) of the spindle, and heck, great the
belly of the spindle, too. Why not?
Insert the plastic accordion sleeve, which strictly isn't necessary. It's
there to isolate the assembly from water that might leak in from above. But
many cool guys ditch the plastic.
Then insert the spindle with the correct (usually long) side sticking out
the fixed cup.
With the bearings greased and facing outward (from the bike's point of
view, so INTO the left cup), grease the threads on the adjustable/left side
cup and screw it in. You'll need a "pin tool" to complete this job.
Some threads will be sticking out. Put the notched lock ring on those
threads.

The final adjustment takes some skill and time and experience and feel,
which is why nobody uses these as original equiment anymore. It cannot be
done with power tools, and you don't want a first-timer adjusting your bb.
Any conscientious individual can do it just fine, but it'll take many tries
and retries to nail the adjustment, because as you tighten the lockring
against the shell, it has the effect of pulling out (loosening) the
adjustment. So, you get what seems like a perfect adjustment, then you go
to lock it in and it loosens, and it loosens because the adjustable cup
gets pulled outward, away from the bearings.

The skill and feel come in by knowing how too-tight to make it to account
for the loosening, and different bottom brackets and frames will require
different amounts. You sometimes try to hold the adjustable cup's
adjustment with the pin tool as you lock it there with the lockring, but
sometimes tightening the lockring makes the adjustable cup move, anyway.
It's the opposite of Plug-n-Play, but the thing is, it is NOT THAT HARD as
long as you don't require perfection on your first-thru-fourth tries. As a
home mechanic, you need to buy some tools. The fixed cup should be put in
with a shop tool, and new bike shops might not even have those anymore. The
cheap tools are the lockring tool and pin tool, and in the old days you
could get them both for $30 combined, but I don't know what it is these
days, and a normal bike shop won't stock them.

The Tange BB's will be available in a range of dimensions, Eleven caged
balls, not nine. Hard and smooth, best finish. Some details still being
worked on, and we're not the drivers of this project, but have had some
input. There is no ETA on 'em. Strike 2.8!


On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Mark Reimer  wrote:

> Nope. You must've missed my comment. Phil wood bearings are for sunny
> California. My Phil BB and hub bearings never last more than a winter. They
> are not suitable for cold and wet climates. And don't get me started on
> their free hubs hah
>
> On May 2, 2016, at 12:48 PM, Brian Campbell 
> wrote:
>
> Phil Wood! ;-)
>
> On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 1:27:48 PM UTC-4, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>
>> Haha! I'm terribly curious how you'll determine who qualifies as a
>> "newbie with romantic/retro sensibilities but no experience with this kind
>> of BB."
>>
>> You know, up till this moment I had zero interest in cup and cone bb's,
>> and never would imagine considering going back to one. maybe that's because
>> I'm not aware of a quality option out there. But given the fact that my
>> environment destroys bearings in every BB I've tried, including Phil Wood,
>> within a season, maybe a cup and cone would be exactly what I need.
>> Self-serviceable with nothing but a couple special wrenches and a tube of
>> grease. Hmmm
>>
>> Say Grant - who will be manufacturing these BB's?
>>
>> On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 8:32:07 PM UTC-5, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>>
>>> BB spindle length:
>>>
>>> It's always safe and usually best to use the bb the crank maker
>>> recommends, or (more to the point) a dimensional equivalent. I'm not going
>>> to address taper here, just quick notes about length. It comes down to
>>> chainline, which has nothing to do with the chain. Almost everything
>>> anybody could possibly say about CL has already been said by Sheldon on his
>>> site, but I don't remember whether he addressed derailers there, so I will
>>> fast here. Chainline is how far out from the center of 

Re: [RBW] Re: What's in a Rivendell name?

[Grant Petersen]

Ultra laid-back.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 9:05 AM, sameness  wrote:

> Tad Lude. Reeeally relaxed geometry.
>
> Jeff Hagedorn
> Los Angeles, CA USA
>
> On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 8:35:03 AM UTC-8, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> Tad Lewd might fly as a model name...under the right circumstances.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rosco Bubbe

[Grant Petersen]

As designers and manufacturers, we like (and have some kind of obligation)
to try things ourselves that may or may not work on our customers' bikes.
We're often asked about parts we haven't tried, and a lot of the time have
no interest in trying---for reasons good or bad, but usually good. Keeping
in mind that, despite the furor we sometimes inspire and the price of our
bikes, we are a small and cash-poor business that can't be all things to
all riders. And, often we have friends who let us try their bikes with
something.

It's not always a matter of "does it work?", because most things do work in
their intended limited applications, and in the right circumstances.

The thing I LIKE about the 40, is that on my Cheviot, at least, it worked
with my $30 much beloved Altus derailer. It required a few more links of
chain--as it turned out, one more than what I put on it when I was thinking
I'd never make the goof of riding the 46 x 40 combo.Sometimes when I'm
feeling super frisky, I climb in the big ring THINKING its the middle ring,
and that's what happened here. Then it got harder or I got tireder, and
shifting up in back and broke it. It's not something I'm ashamed of,
it's just part of life on bikes. It's kind of neat being the guy who owns a
bike company but hasn't gotten beyond doing dumb stuff. It makes me feel
like a kid again, or something.

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Or even a 1X9 or 1X10. I may go that route myself one day if a derailleur
> hangar extension will allow a 9 speed XT rd to accommodate a 40 t cog. A
> 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30-40 X 32 might be good for steep singletrack.
>
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 6:02 AM, Lungimsam  wrote:
>
>> I can see 40t, 11 speed for a 1x.
>>
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>
>
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>
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>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
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>
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[RBW] Re: Grant Petersen's views on mountain bike development?

[Grant Petersen]

I've changed my thoughts on handlebar height and toe clips...but I think 
I'm on more solid ground now. I see that MB-3 in the spread and ... it's 
begging for Bosco bars, and to be stripped of its toe clips! That was from 
24 years ago, I think. I'll stand by the rest of it! G

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 7:21:23 AM UTC-8, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:

 Does anyone recall if Grant has discussed his views on the development of 
 the mountain bike?  He was in the Bay area at the time.  He was an active 
 cyclist at the time.  He wrote a couple of books about places to ride in 
 the Bay area.  I'm curious if he was aware of the Klunker scene going on in 
 Marin and when he saw his first MTB and what he thought?  Did he meet any 
 of the main protaganists while they were developing the MTB?   

 Has he discussed this in any of the old RR issues?  Maybe a good topic for 
 a future issue or a Blug post?  


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Re: [RBW] Re: New Hatchet Use

[Grant Petersen]

http://www.whitesboots.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.viewcategory_id=444

Whites Smokejumper Boots have high heels, and I always thought they looked 
like old granny gunshooter boots..and a few years ago I was at a trade 
show, stopped at the Whites booth, and I asked the guy there hey, why the 
scary granny heels that look ancient feminine but kind of wicked? He'd 
worked there 30 years and was now top dog, and told me in this case,  it's 
for running down steep hills trying to escape a chasing fire. The high heel 
hits the ground sooner and has a leveling effect on the hill, so you don't 
get pushed forward downward as much. We all hope Deacon Patrick didn't 
totally wreck and discard the heels, in case he's up against that.

On a primal-primate-sex note (now you're all paying attention), read 
chapter two of The Naked Ape. Same kinda stuff. The Naked Ape was a big 
book in the '70s, author Desmond Morris is still alive, I think. The book 
explainsstuff. I'll leave it at that, you're on your own.

On Friday, December 26, 2014 11:46:42 AM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:

 Oh … the Kim Kardashian effect!

 —Eric N
 campyo...@me.com javascript:
 www.campyonly.com
 www.wheelsnorth.org
 Blog: http://campyonlyguy.blogspot.com
 Twitter: @campyonlyguy 

 On Dec 26, 2014, at 11:43 AM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com 
 javascript: wrote:

 Primate females in heat raise their rear ends as a signal they are ready 
 to mate -- a primal signal mimicked by women wearing high heals for the 
 change in posture and movement it creates.

 A raised heel (which almost all shoes and boots have), messes with proper 
 body alignment, motion, and function and serves no practical purpose short 
 of mating signals for either gender (though it is helpful for horseback 
 riding to prevent the foot from sliding through open toed stirrups).

 With abandon,
 Patrick

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[RBW] Re: I rode the Clem Smith proto this morning

[Grant Petersen]

We want to get Clems complete, but cash flow never allows that these days, 
so when they come (late '15?) they'll be available as framesets. There's 
clearance for 55 with fender. Whenever we hit out target clearance, there's 
always complaints (from us here, too!) that well, too bad it won't fit the 
next bigger one). But the idea from the start was a fresh modern better 
replacement for a mid-'80s all steel mtn bike...but uprighted and 
urbanized  and ugly, so it wouldn't attract thieves. It won't be 
ugly---that was voted down, we just couldn't do it---but the Clem Smith 
Jr. name was part of the plain theme, and if a savvy thief is hunting for 
Treks or is fooled by a Magna, he probably won't go for a CSJ, unless he's 
super savvy. As for ugly, you can rattlecan it yourself...and the plan also 
is to offer a limited number without decals but with a multiple alphabet so 
you can name it yourself, which would make it easier still to ID at a flea 
market or on Craigslist.
Mark and Jared and Brian picked the colors, and the samplCLems aren't the 
right colors--those were quick and easy colors from the local powdercoater, 
just to cover the metal. 

On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:24:12 PM UTC-8, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:

 I'm still confused as to whether this will be sole as a frameset only. 
  Did this come up in conversation?  

 Also, what size did you ride?  



 On Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:48:04 PM UTC-6, James Warren wrote:

 It was smooth and stable and comfortable and responsive, the way all Rivs 
 are. It's going to be a great bike. And tire clearance. Wow! Hunq-like. 

 -Jim W. 

 Sent from my iPhone



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Re: [RBW] Re: I rode the Clem Smith proto this morning

[Grant Petersen]

so far, 59...but that'll fit to pbh 95

On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Kieran J kjo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Amazing idea!

 Grant, what's the biggest size Clems'll come in? Apologies if this has
 already been answered elsewhere.

 KJ


 On Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:04:19 PM UTC-5, Grant Petersen wrote:


 .and the plan also is to offer a limited number without decals but with a
 multiple alphabet so you can name it yourself, which would make it easier
 still to ID at a flea market or on Craigslist.

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa sneak peek

[Grant Petersen]

The long mystery bikes (we sold ten) of a few years ago got me/us going on 
LW (long wheelbase) bikes. The ride is really good, but they don't fit in 
boxes well, for shipping. The dreamy ride of those bikes lead to longer 
chainstays on other bikes, and ultimately (well, maybe not ULTIMATELY) we 
got our own long chainstays, made to spec, and now we have more options for 
other bikes. So...liking the long CS and the LW bikes, in general.

In the trade magazine yesterday I read a guy from SRAM likes 27.5 mtn bikes 
because the smaller than 29er wheel allows shorter chainstays. Missing 
the point.

When the Mystery bike was going to go into production, it was going to be 
called the Appaloosa, a name suggested by Finn Taylor. I love the name and 
I love horses, although I've ridden one only once and it was scary. But 
Appaloosas are special horses---I guess all horses are, but I like the 
Indian connection to them, and the spots, and the name itself seems 
stretched out, so fit the bike.

Then I/andwe-all-here thought that as good as the bike is, we'd never sell 
a hundred of them, and that's our minimum for a production run (and 
generally our maximum, as dictated by cash flow and risk and space to put 
'em and dread of nervousness...). But in the meantime we had an Appaloosa 
headbadge made, and it's really nice, too. So we had badges and no bike and 
a newfound fondness for long chainstays.

Then somebody here broght up the idea of a canti-Sam, kind of like the 
canti-Romulus man of you know. The Sam is kind of perfect as it is, but 
cantilvers never wreck a bike and they have a place for sure, so we shifted 
that way. Then the cantilevers lead to why not a hair more clearance and 
nudge it toward the Atlantis? And then the long CS came into it all, and so 
what for a couple of days was going to be a Canti-Sam turned into a long WB 
canti-Sam, but at that point it's a different bike. (The canti-romulus was 
exactly a romulus with cantilevers.)

We added 5mm to the fork length and upped the wall thickness of the  top of 
the fork blades from 1.0mm to 1.1mm, which is half btw the Sam and the 
Atlantis... and then went for Appaloosa, which allowed us to use the head 
badge (we have 120 of them, or something.)

But developing means at least one round of samples, and reserving 
production time at the shop, and then it also would have meant temporarily 
kicking out the Sam, which---how can we do that to a bike so good, and then 
also risk not having any bikes to sell in the Spring, something we can't 
afford, that would truly be a disaster. I think I said this on the Blug. 

The Clem will have the new wide Hunqa fork crown--flat and normal for us. 
That bike is also on hold, same reasons. Bill, you can come by and ride the 
bikes--anybody can. Call to make sure it's there, because sometimes it's 
not.

The graphic above the plate of food in the blug is something else for 
another bike that will likely happen in mid-2016. If plans change or I get 
too impatient.

On Friday, November 21, 2014 3:01:58 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 It looks like the new Hub-Area Rack is available, now with a hoop.  Not 
 only that, it appears to be mounted to the front of a Joe Appaloosa.  You 
 can see the rings and the tig welds at the headtube.  

 http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/rmf2b.htm


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[RBW] Re: FS/WTT New-in-the box Waterford Atlantis 56cm

[Grant Petersen]

Tiny thing, petty I'm sure, but Waterford Atlantis sort of hands off our 
hand in the bike to Waterford. We're happy and proud that Wford builds some 
models for us, but the things that make an Atlantis an Atlantis all came 
from us...so USA-built Atlantis goes down much easier here. 

On Friday, October 24, 2014 12:49:16 PM UTC-7, Wildcat96 wrote:


 https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-o3XgYwYn8vI/VEqs9H-76JI/BW0/ESvG7xSUoek/s1600/IMG_1740.JPG
 Hey all, I picked this frame up from a fellow Riv fan locally and was 
 hoping to transfer most of the parts over from my Alba-bar 51cm Sam.  After 
 spending some time on the phone with the guys at Riv, I am not so sure now 
 that I'm going to be happy with the fit as it's borderline too big.  I am 
 5'7 with a 81 PBH.  It is still in the original packaging and I only 
 pulled it out to inspect it for damage and snap some pics.  I am asking 
 $1850 plus shipping, but I am open to other offers or possibly trading for 
 an 53 or 54.5 Atlantis, 48 or 51 Hunqapillar, 48 Bombadil, or even a 54 
 Hilsen that is new or in decent shape.  This is the brand new Waterford 
 frame that Riv sells for $2300.


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Re: [RBW] Re: OT (grant-related, not Riv-related): lo-carb, high fat protein, ketosis, c.

[Grant Petersen]

I started the blog mostly because it's an author's respo to assist the pub
in selling the books. It's  not like--now I wrote it, now you sell it.
Not wanting to rewrite every entry, I starting doing stuff that i don't do
in the book--like photo food. It's easy, I do it at home as I'm making the
stuff.

There IS an entry titled Recalibrate Your Taste Buds (or something like
that) that deals with being able to eat cheaply and health-ily...and
another one titled Viva Canned Fish, in which I disclose that I love the
stuff. I eat low on the foodsnob pole (except for roquefort), and canned
fish is right there on the bottom.

But the book doesn't belabor that. It's mostly other stuff.
Anybody can look for free at eatbacondontjog.com. It's light reading, and
some of those platesfulla food are gorgeous.

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Brian Campbell bdcampbel...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Based on the EBDJ blog, the diet consisits of: Canned fish, eggs, coconut
 products, ghee, kale and blue cheese. That combo would help most anyone
 lose weight..



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Re: [RBW] OT (grant-related, not Riv-related): lo-carb, high fat protein, ketosis, c.

[Grant Petersen]

Humans are omnivores, of course. I hesitate to say THIS, but if we evolved 
from apes, and it's understandable that we'd have some ape-like 
features--like a sideways-moving jaw, and eyeballs in front. 

Right now and for the last 200,000 years, our digestive system looks more 
like a dog's than an ape's, though. I don't know how to address the  using 
cows guts to prove humans must be carnivores, but proving that humans are 
(must be) carnivores wasn't my point. My point--I maybe didn't make it 
well--was that we have a digestive system that is ideally suited to 
digesting low-fiber, nutrient-dense foods, and  are underequipped to do the 
same to high fiber or cellulose-based foods. There is SOME science 
SOMEWHERE in there.

Omnivores that have eaten considerable plants for a long enough time have 
also evolved the ability to fermentin a large cecum; but our vestigial 
cecum--the appendix---doesn't do that. It could well be that humans are the 
only discovered animals to have a digestive apparatus that's ill-suited to 
the food we (in general) eat, but it is at least as likely that, being 
omnivores, we have evolved the ability to survive on foods that don't match 
up with our digestive system. 

I was a vegetarian for 18 years, ending in 1988. That is irrelevant, but as 
a matter of fact...

Anyway. this topic is better suited to my new book email, which is 
gr...@eatbacondontjog.com.
The books is short--like JUST RIDE--and it's probably a bad use of time for 
me to try to comment or answer stuff here, culling arguments that I have 
already made in the book. I don't think V's are idiots. My youngest 
daughter remains one (a vegetarian, that is), and I'm up to my 
sideways-moving jaw in vegan and vegetarian friends, and the topic nev-R 
comes up.

Since I don't need the last word...can we agree to wrap this up on this 
forum by, say, Monday Noon? Whatevs-

On Saturday, November 8, 2014 12:04:01 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:

 Humans, like bears, pigs, and rats, are omnivores. 
 A true carnivore cannot move its jaw from side to side to grind its food.
 There are monogastric herbivores, like horses and rabbits. Using cows' 
 guts to prove humans must be carnivores is rhetoric, not science.

 http://www.saylor.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/BIO309-OC-3.8.1-Comparison-of-Digestive-Systems-FINAL.pdf

 Philip
 www.biketinker.com


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Re: [RBW] OT (grant-related, not Riv-related): lo-carb, high fat protein, ketosis, c.

[Grant Petersen]

Many of the issues brought up here are addressed (I address them) in the 
book. Not to say that my addressing them carves them into even limestone, 
but the book can speak for itself and me, and I'd hate for somebody to hear 
ketosis or diabetes and assume that I'm wacky on either of those.
I think entres No. 82-83-84 make a compelling argument for a nutrient-dense 
low-carb diet. One of those, summed up, goes like this: We have a digestive 
system nearly identical to the digestive system of every carnivore. It's a 
simple, one-stomach chamber system (monogastric). It lacks the enzymes and 
complexity needed to digest cellulose, the structural component of 
plants---which isn't to say we don't digest any of them, but we cannot 
digest cellulose without the enzyme cellulase, and we carnivores make at 
most just tiny amounts of that. 
Herbivores digest cellulose by fermenting it. In a ruminant (cow, deer), 
the first stomach chamber is the biggest, and its purpose is fermenting the 
roughage, breaking it down. Then it gets belched up and chewed again as a 
cud, mixed with more enzymes ...then is swallowed and sent through more 
machinery that we don't have, and after a long trip thru the large 
intestine, additional digestion by fermentation takes place in the cecum. 
Apes have a cecum, because they eat roughage and need it. 
Our appendix is a devolved/atrophied cecum. It's about as big around as a 
ball point pen or a fat pencil, and is two to six inches long, typically, 
and its chamber is narrow...and food can get in there, but sometimes 
doesn't get out, and then we get appendicitis or something else.
The point is, over the nearly 3 million years of evolution, from ape to 
Homo whatever, a diet largely of heinous meat has allowed our digestive 
system to reconfigure to what it is now: Carnivoristic. It's so much like a 
dog's.

People've been eating plants in large quantities for at most 11,000 years. 
Middle easterners have the longest exposure to carbs, and as a defense, 
they've evolved saliva with a higher concentration of amylase in it, which 
predigests the starch before it triggers a huge glucose response. But carbs 
(in mass qty) came to Africans and Native Americans and Mexicans and some 
others much later, and they have not had time to adapt. It's not a 
white-and-black difference, though---the high amylase spit is still no 
match for the juices an processes an herbivore has to digest roughage.
And even with all that roughage-digesting machinery, the digestion is so 
incomplete that they have to eat constantly to fuel themselves for even the 
most lazy lives (in the case of a cow). And they poop constantly, to make 
room for more food. They're digesting machines, but inefficient ones at 
that.

A human on a high-fiber/plant-based diet is at a serious disadvantage. 
We've evolved the ability to communicate, but throw into that mix the 
influences of marketing and commerce and ego and all that, and it's no 
wonder we're confused.

My book has no original thoughts, thank goodness. I didn't cogitate on 
stuff and make sense of it in my head before putting it on paper and 
declaring it truth. The information is out there and has been out there for 
decades. The past twenty years or so have taught us a lot more, and now the 
level of understanding how it works is quite high.

There are ethical arguments on both sides, and I address some of those, 
too. Maybe all of them. But for me, it comes down to this: People and the 
animals fed by people are the only animals on earth that eat food that is 
incompatible with their digestive system. Many, not all, of the problems we 
have are nearly unique to people, and some of those problems might be 
related to eating funky food.

In the book I try to simplify things. Since I'm simple - minded, it came 
natural to me.
At eatbacondontjog.com I show fantastic food fotos of some actual meals. 
Many contain leaves...even though I don't thoroughly digest them. On that 
site you'll also see we have an anagram contest going. Scroll down a few 
posts. Kind of fun.

eatbacondontjog.com

G

On Friday, November 7, 2014 2:37:06 PM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:

 H. I will have to ask my dentist next time I see her if cavities can, 
 in fact, “vanish.” That would be wonderful.

 —Eric


 On Nov 7, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.com javascript: 
 wrote:

 Some cavities even vanished. 




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[RBW] Re: Bike Industry Controlled by Grant Peterson

[Grant Petersen]

About the influence thing, with practical bikes, and so on: I'm not dumb 
enough or falsely humble enough to deny that Rivendell has had influence, 
but to put it on ME gives me too much credit. As some have pointed out, 
lots of what we're doing with bikes has been done before in some 
form--bigger tires, fitting, higher bars, fenders, baskets, bags, steel  
lugs. ALL OF IT. 

The whole industry got racified (like the word or not) starting in about 
the early '80s (road) and late '80s (mtn), and that's where everything 
seems to go. A few ride bikes. More ride bikes. Then somebody says I can 
beat that guy and another says heythen let's see you prove it, and the 
races happen, there's suddenly an audience (nobody's a commute 
spectator), and with the audience comes opportunity to ... market. 
Spectators admire racers and want to be like them to whatever extent their 
lives allow it, and that changes equipment.

So the high-clearance bikes and brakes of the pre-race era stopped being 
made, and the early RIVs used whatever brakes were available--and they were 
short-reach, which is limiting. Through some of our efforts Shimano 
reintroduced a med reach sidepull--still in existence--and when we wanted 
more clearance we went to Tektro for the Silver brake, which is now 
available also as a 559. That was a huge breakthrough, and you can see it 
and its cheaper cousins on bikes all over the US and Europe now, but my 
point is that all we did was push the ball, and it would have stopped 
without your support. 

This is neat, because it has proved that NON-racers can drive things, too. 
The internet helps. Without the emotional support and affirmation that 
comes from unseen strangers, a lot of people would be timid to go this way, 
or wouldn't even know it was an option. When people thank us for making a 
bike, I always thankem back for buying it, and behind the thanks is a long 
speech they don't have time to hear about how we wouldn't make this stuff 
if people didn't buy it.

It's not the same as being market-driven--something that I hope we never 
are. It's more like those of you who are reading this and liking and 
supporting it with your purchases...are rewarding any effort we make, and 
that's the fuel for more of it. There are still some areas that need 
addressing, and we're trying to work on them. It would be so much easier if 
well-funded companies did it, but the stuff we like --- and, I'd say the 
stuff YOU like --the same stuff, I think --- is too quirky for big  people 
with money to understand UNTIL it gets out there, which it does thru us but 
because of you...so, thanks. It's funny to say thanks, because after a 
longish explanation like that, adding thanks seems like a passive 
agressive way to reel in more credit as I wind this thing up, but I swear 
to god I'm not trying to do that. Of COURSE we-all-here-at-RIV appreciate 
the support, which means jobs and a living and all that--but the main point 
is that good ideas are easy, and what really makes them work and spread is 
what happens on your end. G

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Re: [RBW] Riv headset spacer bell mount outside diameter in line with your spacers, or wider?

[Grant Petersen]

I've got no Cranial connections, but I know who does.

I like the new 9/8 designation(---we can pronounce it design-ation),
but we're sticking with the old standard 8/8, for the record.






On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Joe Bunik jbu...@gmail.com wrote:

 You're not grip-sniffing alone on this one, Sam - I was just
 ruminating on the very same topic this a.m. as I rode the train and
 stared vacantly at the headset of my Legolas!

 First, the RBW / Crane headset/spacer mount bell is a great item. It's
 not just another spacer with a thread added, but is machined (CNC'd?)
 from a larger solid piece. Meaning the base for the bell is better
 positioned and much less likely to strip out (as I've experienced w/
 other's products).

 The Crane however is designed to work with either 1 (using an
 included shim) or 9/8 headsets. Standard Riv usage is as a 1
 threaded steerer spacer, which presumes you have a tall-enough steerer
 (as all good Rivs should!). The Legolas is one of the exceptions
 available as 1 threadless, but it's the same situation- the oversize
 bell mount requires a shim.

 It looks a little wonky though, to stack 1 spacers above/below this
 larger alloy chunk (lovely chunk it is). My eye-easing remedy had been
 (reading from top-to-bottom), 1) 9/8 threadless cap, 2) a single thin
 1 spacer, 3) Nitto TFL stem (9/8, and is on a reducer shim), 4)
 Crane bell mount (also on a shim, and its oversize-ness matches the
 9/8 Nitto stem nicely), 5) 1 headset hanger (for cantilevers), 6)
 triple-1 spacers a la the Rivendell shot-glass, 7) 1 threadless
 headset top race.

 Problem is I've recently switched to a different hanger for my canti
 setup, rendering unnecessary the headset-hanger separator parked
 between the fat Crane and thinner shot-glass. I may try to find some
 thin 9/8 spacers and do a similar shotglass-over-a-shim, but I'll bet
 that will look wonky with the 1 top race. :-/

 The Ideal Solution (maybe GP can turn some screws on Crane!?) would be
 for a similar style mount, but exclusively for 1!

 =- Joe Bunik
 Walnut Creek, CA


 On 7/19/14, lungimsam john11.2...@gmail.com wrote:
  Looks like the outer spacer mount diameter bulges out wider than the
  regular spacer diameters on 1 steerers, like the pic on the rivsite (
  http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/bellhed.htm)
 
  So I was wondering, does it stick out on yours, or is it just that way in
  that pic they have on the site?
 
  One of my favorite features of Riv bikes are the shot-glasses - the
  pretty stack of headset spacers. I don't want to ruin the line.
 
  Maybe I am just cork grip sniffing about this, but it's one of the
 things I
 
  find beautiful on these bikes.
 
  So just want to know how it really is so I can stop mulling and either
 get
  one, or wait until they start selling one with a uniform outer diameter
 for
 
  1 spacers.
 
  Didn't they have one with an aluminum (silver colored) bell on it once?
  That would be a nice match for all the silver color on these bikes.
 
 
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-- 
Grant
Rivendell Bicycle Works
www.rivbike.com
925 933 7304

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[RBW] Re: Pedal strike and platform pedals

[Grant Petersen]

I agree with all...but happen to have micro-knowledge about some
particulars. The Grip King pedal has the best clearance of any pedal
we sell...was designed to win and does. Much of this is obvioius, but
here it is all at once: Pedal clearance is only a function of
how far the pedal sticks out (related to crank Q-Factor, of course)
crank length
pedal cage height
bottom bracket height---which itself comes from frame drop and wheel
radius (radius minus drop is bb height).

The CPSC Consumer Products Safety Commission requires (or used to; I
dunno if it's changed) 25-degrees of lean before contact, and we have
a spreadsheet that lets us plug in any combination with any of the
pedals we offer, and so...a Roll-y Pol-y* tire on an A. Homer Hilsen
with 175mm cranks and MKS Touring pedals doesn't quite make it, but
once you're up to Jack Brown territory and any pedal other than the
Touring, then all's well.

But---as everybody has said--it's mostly a matter of learning the
limits and pedaling within 'em.

On May 19, 2:46 pm, Rex Kerr rexk...@gmail.com wrote:
 So, I've been slowly warming to this idea of using platform pedals.  I
 actually compromised and went half way, using cream colored PowerGrip
 straps that Rivendell was selling at the time and the MKS touring pedals
 that they sell.  This setup works fairly well for me and I'm starting to
 prefer it over having to wear dedicated shoes, even though I was wearing
 Shimano sandals.  That said, after years of using tiny little Frog pedals I
 got accustomed to how much cornering clearance I had and don't remember the
 last time that I experienced pedal strike [except for one time on my fixed
 gear].  Now, though, I seem to do it at least once per ride, even on turns
 that seem like nothing whatsoever!  Worse, a few times I've grabbed the toe
 of my sandal and flipped it down! (I sure hope I don't break a toe or tear
 my awesome Chaco sandals!)

 So, now I'm wondering... are there other paltform pedals that give a little
 more ground clearance? Is it just something I'll have to learn to deal
 with?  Are the King Grips any better [for clearance]?  How about the RMX
 sneaker pedal with its corners rounded off?

 How long did it take you (if you converted to platforms) to become
 accustomed to the reduced clearance?

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[RBW] Re: Extreme Exercize

[Grant Petersen]

Super neat and thanks, Michael. I love this stuff...as you've supposed.
I'll finish reading it tonite. Thank you, really, for sending..

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Michael Hechmer mhech...@gmail.com wrote:

 A while back the Riv Reader published an article challenging the benefits
 of ultra endurance events.  With that in mind, I offer this research report:


 http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2012/01/25/cardio-may-damage-heart.aspx?e_cid=20120125_DNL_art_1

 I have to admit, I have long since gotten over any urge to do anything
 that smacks of training, so perhaps this appeals to my preconceived
 desires.

 blessings,
 michael




-- 
Grant
Rivendell Bicycle Works
www.rivbike.com
925 933 7304

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[RBW] Re: Near-Catastrophic Rim Failure

[Grant Petersen]

Many of you will remember, and all of you can relate to Keith
Bontrager's maxim from the late '80s:

Light Strong Inexpensive: Pick Two

It works to some extent with all bike parts, but even IT can't come to
the rescue when the thing is just too light.

Do you know the thickness of the braking surface on a typical road
rim? It's about 1.2mm. Some are 1.1. That's what fails when rims wear
out and blow out. Well...1.1 or 1.2mm looks like nothing, which you
consider the abrasion they're subject to and can't possibly avoid.
(Disc brakes have their own set of problems, so let's stay on track.)

It used to be common practice to inspect brake pads AND rims, but
raise you hand if you can remember the last time you did that.

How much should a non-racing 700c rim weigh? How thick should the
braking surface be, and how tall? How wide should it be?
Reasonable answers,  kind of, could be: Weight: 500g. Thickness of
braking surface: 2.5mm. Height: 11mm. Width: 24mm.
But a rim with those specs would weigh about 800g. I believe this
because we're having a NOBS rim made to our specs, and it has 1.6mm
braking surface, 10.5mm brake surface height, is 25.4 (1) mm wide, and
weighs about 650g. It's wider than 24, but way thinner than 2.5, and
the 10.511. I think this is a totally reasonable rim, in every way. I
wanted 2mm of braking surface, but that would have meant zero buyers,
so we settled on the world-record 1.6, bringing the weight down to a
near world record 650g, and even though I think it's a perfectly
fantastic rim for general nonracing use---touring, trails, commuting,
all purpose riding when there's not a timer or a finish line with a
banner---I believe we'll end up selling it mostly to guys who weigh
300 pounds and are sick and tired of wheel problems...because most
riders like the idea of stout stuff, but don't really want the weight
that comes with it.
We'll continue to offer other rimsbut this new rim will be the way
to go when you truly, really, want a durable rim and wheel.
(Anywaythe new stouty won't be available for many months).

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[RBW] Re: BuBar on Riv Site.........

[Grant Petersen]

Dustin's seen the bars, but knows if he divulges anything, he's in for
it, and it is not pleasant. TapeBubba.MAY have seen them. May
NOT have noticed them. We still have that thing going, where, if
somebody posts a clear photo, then we raise the price on everybody's
handlebars by $20, and blame the photoposter. They are neat bars.
Jay's favorite of all time, I think. He likes them a lot, at least.
It's not fair to the bar for me to puff it up so much, because once
you do that, people---some people---have a tendency to pounce on it
when it arrives for good. It won't turn everybody on, but it is a
pretty neat bar. Mr. Y from Nitto did a good job interpreting the
requests, and he was here not long ago riding my bike. Elderly
Japanese guy riding a bike too big for him, through his leg over and
took off like he was born on the bike. He came back liking it, and he
gets it. There's an optional twist that makes it even better, but it's
a twist that will likely only appeal to Splat-fans. At least, if you
hate Splats, you're too uptight for this other thing. Even then,
though, you'll still be tempted.
Bubba: Look around some next time you're here.

On Oct 14, 12:47 pm, EastBayGuy goodwin...@gmail.com wrote:
 New HS Bar Teaser

 http://rivbike.tumblr.com/

 Dustin G

 Walnut Creek Ca

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Re: [RBW] Digest for rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com - 25 Messages in 11 Topics

[Grant Petersen]

Ahh...well, my slightly arrogant answer to that would be to translate the
Latin for him. Tell him it means:
I'm stubborn, therefore.. The idea being that the brute hasn't heard of
Descartes, and soitenly can't talk Latin-like!


Allingham II, Thomas J thomas.alling...@skadden.com Sep 08 12:39AM
-0400 ^ #13247da6eee3d862_digest_top

  my wife informed me the other day that Cogito, Ergo I Ride a Steel
Bike is possible a trifle arrogant, as it suggests that riding anything
else implies an empty head. Whether the logic is flawed or not, I now live
in fear of being confronted by a really large carbon-riding guy who thinks
I'm casting aspersions on his intellect. Life is so complicated.



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[RBW] dat funky Riv

[Grant Petersen]

Well, now I know how Louis Vuitton feels (I've always been curious). I've
been know to have brain farts (and grain farts), but I'm thinking what lugs
are those? They aren't ours. We did use Henry James crowns for about 20
frames for a while there, till we got our own. The dropouts are raised in
back but not in front, and that wasn't a WF style back then. The fork rake
looks a bit better than the early WF-builts (nowhere close to post-'97). The
seller may not know how to measure a chainstay, so I can't go by the 42cm
listing (I think the shortest ever was 42.5). But mainly, the lugs.

It seems odd to me. too, that JB would paint one that-a-way. Once somebody
owns it, it's their deal, and we don't  hold JB to any style (he knows what
I like, but a guy's got a right to make a living). I called him now, line's
busy, I'll try again.

The serial number would tell the story. The seller de-listed it, I think. If
it's a Riv underneath that pump instead of seat tube paint job, then fine
etc., but at this point I'm still guessing it's not.

G
-- 
Grant
Rivendell Bicycle Works
www.rivbike.com
925 933 7304

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[RBW] What a diff a W or T makes in short words that start with N O

[Grant Petersen]

John Blish says:

Grant has mentioned several times that he found his KickBike convenient for
exercise and even occasional transportation during his time off the bike.
He mentioned yesterday that he is *now* pitching that lifestyle. He ha

Grant Says: If I wrote now it was a mistake. Shouldn've been not .

Howeverwhether I am now or not a card-carrying member of the Kickbike
community (and I am now not), I personally am a big fan of the things, and
they saved me from the car during my 7 weeks of no not now bike riding...and
of course, put me deep in touch with my inner lactic acid burn.

It's now not neat to know that John Blish is not just familiar with these
things, but has a hand in selling them, and demos. I have thought about
trying to corral a few more here (we have 3) and doing some purely
noncommercial fun (and yet, anaerobic! in the thigh!) trips of a few miles
on the bike paths.

For the cost of a carbon fiber fork, or a carbon fiber bar-stem combo, you
can get a Kickbike, and the Kickbike may do you more good, less harm, or
both.
G

-- 
Grant
Rivendell Bicycle Works
www.rivbike.com
925 933 7304

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[RBW] scooter widda shock

[Grant Petersen]

Aero bars AND a suspension fork!

Signs of the pending apocalypse?


Cheers,
David


I scoot one-handed, and I tried resting on the grip, but I slip forward.
Mark rigged the rest for me; works great. Shocks came widda scoot. I'm
getting into this scooter thing. Don't be shocked if, a year and a half or
two (prolly not, but scooting is saving my sanity for now. I'm the old
guy with the blue cast scooting around town, in the neighborhoods.

kickbikeusa.com, I think. Not bad...mix it up (even if you don't have to)

G

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