[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted
What good would it be to have the folded dipoles (erroneously referred to as loops) constructed if there was no (impedance matching) harness to use with them? For one to use 222-225 dipoles with the harness from a 150-160 DB 224 is just plain stupid. The coax matching lengths and impedance's in the 150-160 harness are no where near being correct to achieve the proper impedance matching and power division for 222-225 dipoles. Has anyone designed, built, and tested a proper harness for use at 222-225? or even measured the coax in the JJ model? Has anyone even measured the impedance of a dipole made for use at 222-225? Or even modeled one? Allan Crites WA9ZZU --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 skipp...@... wrote: I'm looking for a DB224-JJ. They are becoming hard to find, even from manufacturers. I would also consider a Hustler HD6-5 or something similar to that. If someone has the dimensions for the 224-JJ Loops and maybe the spacing distance... I think I can get them made. A local (to me) Ham has made a metal forming jig for loop antenna materials and is currently cranking out 440 loop antennas like crazy. I could get him to re-size the jig and crank out some 224 MHz loops with their mounts. Anyone have the JJ info available? I'm currently using a Hustler G7-220 side mounted, which works OK, but looking for something that could be top mounted. I've got a G7-220 Tower Top Mounted and it works killer (good). Having problems getting coverage in the areas I need due to shadowing from the tower. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Changing the spacing of the antenna to the tower would modify the pattern. s.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted
Our G7 is 1/2 wave from the tower (about 24). That seemed to work best for us. The tower is guyed with a 19 face. Think it's a Rohn, but that is of no concern. So far I am pleased with it's performance, just looking to optimize coverage as much as possible w/o remote receivers. Right now getting about 80% of the coverage we would like. If I can get to 90-95% I would be happy. To be honest, I want 110% coverage(who doesn't! HiHi)!! As far as the dimensions of the elements, I have them at home, I will send them out later on. Thanks all!! Steve KD8BIW KD8BIW/R 224.580 PL 110.9 --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Steven M Hodell st...@... wrote: I am about to hang a G7-220 on the side of my tower, what spacing did you use? How far from the tower is your G7-220? - Original Message - From: skipp025 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted I'm looking for a DB224-JJ. They are becoming hard to find, even from manufacturers. I would also consider a Hustler HD6-5 or something similar to that. If someone has the dimensions for the 224-JJ Loops and maybe the spacing distance... I think I can get them made. A local (to me) Ham has made a metal forming jig for loop antenna materials and is currently cranking out 440 loop antennas like crazy. I could get him to re-size the jig and crank out some 224 MHz loops with their mounts. Anyone have the JJ info available? I'm currently using a Hustler G7-220 side mounted, which works OK, but looking for something that could be top mounted. I've got a G7-220 Tower Top Mounted and it works killer (good). Having problems getting coverage in the areas I need due to shadowing from the tower. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Changing the spacing of the antenna to the tower would modify the pattern. s.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Wanted
Add me to the list too!! Tim KB2MFS
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted
I'm looking for a DB224-JJ. They are becoming hard to find, even from manufacturers. I would also consider a Hustler HD6-5 or something similar to that. If someone has the dimensions for the 224-JJ Loops and maybe the spacing distance... I think I can get them made. A local (to me) Ham has made a metal forming jig for loop antenna materials and is currently cranking out 440 loop antennas like crazy. I could get him to re-size the jig and crank out some 224 MHz loops with their mounts. Anyone have the JJ info available? I'm currently using a Hustler G7-220 side mounted, which works OK, but looking for something that could be top mounted. I've got a G7-220 Tower Top Mounted and it works killer (good). Having problems getting coverage in the areas I need due to shadowing from the tower. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Changing the spacing of the antenna to the tower would modify the pattern. s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted
I am about to hang a G7-220 on the side of my tower, what spacing did you use? How far from the tower is your G7-220? - Original Message - From: skipp025 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted I'm looking for a DB224-JJ. They are becoming hard to find, even from manufacturers. I would also consider a Hustler HD6-5 or something similar to that. If someone has the dimensions for the 224-JJ Loops and maybe the spacing distance... I think I can get them made. A local (to me) Ham has made a metal forming jig for loop antenna materials and is currently cranking out 440 loop antennas like crazy. I could get him to re-size the jig and crank out some 224 MHz loops with their mounts. Anyone have the JJ info available? I'm currently using a Hustler G7-220 side mounted, which works OK, but looking for something that could be top mounted. I've got a G7-220 Tower Top Mounted and it works killer (good). Having problems getting coverage in the areas I need due to shadowing from the tower. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Changing the spacing of the antenna to the tower would modify the pattern. s.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted
Steven M Hodell st...@... wrote: I am about to hang a G7-220 on the side of my tower, what spacing did you use? How far from the tower is your G7-220? I use a G7-220 on top of one tower as the receive antenna for a 224 Combiner System and it works great. The newer Generation G7-220 Antenna are constructed with stronger materials so birds are not bending or knocking off the ground radials in the first month of operation. Side tower spacing is normally considered in 1/4 wave increments and some of the more common spacing values are 1/4 and 1/2 wave spacing. However, the size of the tower, the antenna and the spacing all interplay to achieve directive and quasi omni patterns, so there are variants to every expected rule. Sinclair put out a blurb sheet showing basic expected patterns with the more standard above mentioned spacings. I have a copy of that single sheet in PDF format and of course I can send out free copies by Email. In addition to omni antennas the sheet also covers some directional (Yagi) spacings. If you look at Decibel Products antenna mounting instructions for their more popular folded dipole antenna models... you'll see how the antenna spacing and the dipole orientation effect the pattern. In most cases there is rarely a perfect omni pattern but what Decibel calls a quasi omni pattern is possible using the provided information and a bit of as-built testing adjustment. cheers, s. - Original Message - From: skipp025 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 11:56 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-JJ Dimensions Wanted I'm looking for a DB224-JJ. They are becoming hard to find, even from manufacturers. I would also consider a Hustler HD6-5 or something similar to that. If someone has the dimensions for the 224-JJ Loops and maybe the spacing distance... I think I can get them made. A local (to me) Ham has made a metal forming jig for loop antenna materials and is currently cranking out 440 loop antennas like crazy. I could get him to re-size the jig and crank out some 224 MHz loops with their mounts. Anyone have the JJ info available? I'm currently using a Hustler G7-220 side mounted, which works OK, but looking for something that could be top mounted. I've got a G7-220 Tower Top Mounted and it works killer (good). Having problems getting coverage in the areas I need due to shadowing from the tower. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Changing the spacing of the antenna to the tower would modify the pattern. s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question
Hello Al Thanks for reply - I figured that to be the case Do you have anything in your collection resembling a DB222 that would do 152-158 range ? Ed Com-Rad Inc ED - Original Message - From: wa9zzu To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question -I apologize for not giving a complete answer. The short answer to the first question is yes. The short answer to the second is no. Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wa9zzu wa9...@... wrote: -No Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Com/Rad Inc com-rad@ wrote: Turning to the experiences of the group as all vendor info sources are off for the weekend - ( probably could research this on line ) Do any of you have knowledge of the chatachteristics of 1/2 of the DB 224 antenna? With harness' intact does either section of this array resemble the DB 222 ( 2 element ) antenna stack? Concerned with feed impedance etc. I recall doing thihs with a UHF version once and had reasonable results in a pinch... Any comments would be appreciated. Ed K9QPJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question
-I'm not sure I may have, but I cannot give you a good answer for another 3 weeks until I return from my vacation in Mexico. AC -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Com/Rad Inc com-...@... wrote: Hello Al Thanks for reply - I figured that to be the case Do you have anything in your collection resembling a DB222 that would do 152-158 range ? Ed Com-Rad Inc ED - Original Message - From: wa9zzu To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question -I apologize for not giving a complete answer. The short answer to the first question is yes. The short answer to the second is no. Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wa9zzu wa9zzu@ wrote: -No Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Com/Rad Inc com-rad@ wrote: Turning to the experiences of the group as all vendor info sources are off for the weekend - ( probably could research this on line ) Do any of you have knowledge of the chatachteristics of 1/2 of the DB 224 antenna? With harness' intact does either section of this array resemble the DB 222 ( 2 element ) antenna stack? Concerned with feed impedance etc. I recall doing thihs with a UHF version once and had reasonable results in a pinch... Any comments would be appreciated. Ed K9QPJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question
Ed-- -Upon further consideration the top half of a db224 would do what you want if you provide a suitable Z matching section, but I could not provide a solution for the appropriate matching section until I get a chance to look at my previous data measurements until I get back to EGV. The bottom half of a db224 needs a Z compensation at the jct where the top half connects to make it work as a separated ant, perhaps also needing some Z stub at the ant pigtail. Maybe not if the top matching Z section is proper. Need to make a measurement. All what you are wanting to do is possible but needs some work measuring the separated sections and constructing the appropriate Z matching sections. I did some work years ago on mounting two db224 dipoles at the same point on the pipe which would save some valuable mounting space and could be added to an existing pipe, and I constructed the necessary Z matching section which would do the same thing you want with the db222 but unknown if the resulting radiation pattern may be something you would be happy with. If you want to make your own matching section for the two dipoles located at the same point on the pipe it, if I remember correctly (and I am reliaing on my memory here now ) requires a 1/2 WL in 50 ohm coax to the jct of the 50 ohm feed line from each dipole. Each dipole has a Z=120+jxx and two in parallel would get close to 50 ohms. AC -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Com/Rad Inc com-...@... wrote: Hello Al Thanks for reply - I figured that to be the case Do you have anything in your collection resembling a DB222 that would do 152-158 range ? Ed Com-Rad Inc ED - Original Message - From: wa9zzu To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question -I apologize for not giving a complete answer. The short answer to the first question is yes. The short answer to the second is no. Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wa9zzu wa9zzu@ wrote: -No Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Com/Rad Inc com-rad@ wrote: Turning to the experiences of the group as all vendor info sources are off for the weekend - ( probably could research this on line ) Do any of you have knowledge of the chatachteristics of 1/2 of the DB 224 antenna? With harness' intact does either section of this array resemble the DB 222 ( 2 element ) antenna stack? Concerned with feed impedance etc. I recall doing thihs with a UHF version once and had reasonable results in a pinch... Any comments would be appreciated. Ed K9QPJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question
Turning to the experiences of the group as all vendor info sources are off for the weekend - ( probably could research this on line ) Do any of you have knowledge of the chatachteristics of 1/2 of the DB 224 antenna? With harness' intact does either section of this array resemble the DB 222 ( 2 element ) antenna stack? Concerned with feed impedance etc. I recall doing thihs with a UHF version once and had reasonable results in a pinch... Any comments would be appreciated. Ed K9QPJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question
-No Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Com/Rad Inc com-...@... wrote: Turning to the experiences of the group as all vendor info sources are off for the weekend - ( probably could research this on line ) Do any of you have knowledge of the chatachteristics of 1/2 of the DB 224 antenna? With harness' intact does either section of this array resemble the DB 222 ( 2 element ) antenna stack? Concerned with feed impedance etc. I recall doing thihs with a UHF version once and had reasonable results in a pinch... Any comments would be appreciated. Ed K9QPJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Question
-I apologize for not giving a complete answer. The short answer to the first question is yes. The short answer to the second is no. Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wa9zzu wa9...@... wrote: -No Al Crites -- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Com/Rad Inc com-rad@ wrote: Turning to the experiences of the group as all vendor info sources are off for the weekend - ( probably could research this on line ) Do any of you have knowledge of the chatachteristics of 1/2 of the DB 224 antenna? With harness' intact does either section of this array resemble the DB 222 ( 2 element ) antenna stack? Concerned with feed impedance etc. I recall doing thihs with a UHF version once and had reasonable results in a pinch... Any comments would be appreciated. Ed K9QPJ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Survival in Florida
I have an idea for everyone. I have not tried this yet...so if anyone has...and has had issues...LET US KNOW. I have a db420 that we are putting up on a 300ft tower here in metro ATL. This stuff is not only used on aircrafts, but look down at the very bottom of the page. When shooting Pirates of the Caribbean, they ran into corrosion issues. It's not cheap. I paid $30.50 for a 32oz bottle. However...a very thin film is used. Working on some duplexers now and will be coating them with this stuff. I need my db420 to be on the 20yr plan. Can't afford for this to go bad, espcially for what it will be used for. The gentleman who turned me on to this used this, used it on his private airplane. Said that it actually looks for that corrosin and gets under it. After reading these posts...I may use this stuff on the WHOLE antenna instead of just the connections. 73, Robert www.georgiaskywarn.com
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Antennas
If you measured the Diamond antenna's bandwidth, you'll probably notice it's not nearly as broad banded as the Decibel model/unit. It's possible the repeater tx (and or rx) operation near the band edges would have a problematic level of reflected power (swr). Such was the case with a Hustler antenna I once tried/used (and swapped out). Some of the Mono Mult-Band Amateur Antenna models don't always make great repeater system antennas. The Decibel Antennas are commercial quality units made for serious applications. If you google the Diamond 500 antenna... you'll see more than one person posting bad news about Diamond Antenna physical failures after a year or two of operation. You get what you pay for... skipp Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just got a good comparison on the DB224, and my Diamond 500 antenna. FOr kick sakes I had a guy about 35 miles from the repeater in a mobile giving about 25 watts out. WIth the DB224, originally designed for the 150-160 Mhz split, VSWR of 1.8:1, at 130' in the air, fed with 150' of 7/8 hardline he was full quieting into the system, claimed there was just a little noise on the repeater, but full scale. I then switched to the Diamond antenna, fed with 160' of 7/8 hardline, up at 92', he lost one bar on the meter and had just a little noise in his signal. I can only think that if the diamond, which has a VSWR of 1.2:1 were at 130' it would out perform the DB224. So if I had a DB224 cut for the ham bands, it would only again out perform the Diamond antenna. So I agree, for $50.00, yes get the antenna that is cut for the ham band. Plans are to purchase a new Antenna this year for the repeater. So if I may ask, what was the price quoted for a new DB224 antenna for the 138-150 Mhz range? Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224-E Data
Doug, Please send me a copy direct... I'll compare it with my drawings of the 224E and 224A models, which I believe I've already shared with Mike and will make available to the group members. thanks skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com Doug Zastrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To All I Promised this Info, My DB224-E sketch will be on its way to your inbox tonight. If you don't have it by morning email me direct at dzastrow -at- qwest -dot- net. I'm also forwarding a copy to Mike Morris who several months back graciously offered to review it and post it to the Repeater Builder web site. It's quite ironic in that the antenna I documented went aloft to 310 ft. today. It replaced an old DB224 which had developed a crackling noise when in duplex operation. The culprit was a winch line burn going halfway through the phasing harness as well as a cracked dipole. (Pics below.) My apologies for the sketch delay. I have been working 60-80 hour weeks the past three months and I put sleep ahead of completing the sketch. Hope it fills everyone's needs. Regards, Doug Zastrow, WBØUPJ Elkhorn Valley ARC Norfolk, Nebraska (Highly compressed and reduced pics as a courtesy to lo bandwidth users.) Winch Line Burn Dipole Crack Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 E
Hi Dale, I can email you a measured diagram of the db-224-E and A models. Just contact me direct off the list. skipp025 at yahoo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] k0jxi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the overall length of the dipole on a 224E? I thing it is 37 inches but cant remember for sure. Thanks, Dale K0JXI Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 antenna above tri-band beam, what effects could there be
When you stack Antenna's you gererally have a null directly above and below them so you should be in the clear Jeff KG4TEZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wanted to see wht other's thought, or at least concerns. I have my repeater antenna at 92'. Below that is a 5 element beam, and below that is a 7 element tri-band beam on a 24' boom. Could this in anyway effect the pattern of the antenna, the slope patterns, ground effect, etc. Or would this not matter since it is a 1/2 wave dipole type antenna? Just for curious sake, since the question came up about coverage and dense area coverage in certain directions from the repeater site. Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 antenna above tri-band beam, what effects could there be
Thanks Jeff! I think the concern is that people think this might be the reason that they are not able to hit the repeater from certain areas. I think it is more to do with elevation and such. Mathew Jeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When you stack Antenna's you gererally have a null directly above and below them so you should be in the clearJeffKG4TEZ--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Mathew Quaife" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: I wanted to see wht other's thought, or at least concerns. I have my repeater antenna at 92'. Below that is a 5 element beam, and below that is a 7 element tri-band beam on a 24' boom. Could this in anyway effect the pattern of the antenna, the slope patterns, ground effect, etc. Or would this not matter since it is a 1/2 wave dipole type antenna? Just for curious sake, since the question came up about coverage and dense area coverage in certain directions from the repeater site. MathewYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] Re DB224
We put a DB 224 up after loosing 2 Diamond 510 antennas and a station master to lightning about 5 years ago. We replaced the fiberglass antennas about 1 every year, the DB 224 is DC grounded and doesn't seem to mind the lightning! I aded 1 5/8 inches of aluminum to each loop to get the SWR dowm to a respectable level. (It is between 1.1 and 1.2 to 1) The antennas was originally cut for 150 to 160 Mhz. One thing we did do is drill 1/16th holes on the botom of each loop to let condensation out. Another thing we did was to ad a grounding wire between the 2 sections to make up for any corosion between the joints, and put a ground wire (battery cable) between the antenna and a railing that was grounded to earth, this elimated a problem with noise that developed. It is located on top of a grain elevator 182 HAAT. Bill WA9BA I have a DB224-E in service right now, on a hilltop packet node, and it works very well. The E split is for 138-150 MHz, and this was originally used by a Government station in the 138-140 MHz band. The DB224 is broadband and works well in duplex operation. Sitting in the garage is a new DB224E-E, which is the elliptical- pattern version of the same antenna. This antenna is for a new 2m repeater that will be at one side of the intended coverage area, and I know it will perform exactly as I expect. One of the advantages of a four-bay dipole antenna over a fiberglass vertical of similar gain is that the vertical bandwidth is remarkably superior. This makes the dipole antenna work better for close-in portables and mobiles that are below the main lobe of the pattern. It's also much less prone to wind-induced noise. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings, All, I am in need to replace a vhf repeater antenna that has gone bad and I have come across two DB products 224 type VHF antennas Free. They are on 151.XXX now. My question is, has anyone out there used this antenna, [10mhz spread, 150-160 MHz] on their repeaters? A new one on the ham band will cost $499 plus shipping plus brackets. I would like to use the ones I have, if possible.Let me know if any of you guys have used them, and do they work OK thanks, Mike KD4HLH Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re DB224
--- wa9ba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We put a DB 224 up after loosing 2 Diamond 510 antennas and a station master to lightning about 5 years ago. One of the advantages of a four-bay dipole antenna over a fiberglass vertical of similar gain is that the vertical bandwidth is remarkably superior. This makes the dipole antenna work better for close-in portables and mobiles that are below the main lobe of the pattern. It's also much less prone to wind-induced noise. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY According to the specs, most of the fiberglass antennas and dipole antennas in the 6 dB range have similiar main lobes, the type of antenna doesn't seem to affect the lobe, it's more a function of gain. Most 3 DB omni antennas will have about 36 degrees of vertical lobe; 6 db will be 18, and 9 db will be 9 degrees. Some slight variations to these numbers will occur, but they'll be close. Dipole arrays are not always better than fiberglass sticks, they both have their places, and pros and cons. Joe __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
That might be true, but your original implication stated that changing the element spacing was done to get downtilt; which is not possible. Your original implication also said nothing about the harness which would lead others to believe that the only thing needed to obtain downtilt on a DB-224 was to change the element spacing; which is totally incorrect and physically not possible. Kevin Custer russ wrote: True but when you change the harness to get down tilt (PER DB) you also change the spacing. (Also per DB) . 73 Russ, russ wrote: Hey every one, Let us not forget that they change the spacing to get down till on the DB-224. Wrong. The only way to get downtilt on a binary fed exposed dipole array is to either build the phasing harness so the electrical length feeding each element is slightly longer in phase with respect to the one next to it, or mechanically tilt the array if it is a cardiod pattern. Varying spacing between elements has little effect on the vertical beam pattern. There is very little difference in the performance of a dipole array with varying amounts of spacing between the elements. Most manufacturers shoot for about 80 to 90% of a full wavelength between elements, but the spacing is really not that critical. Also, the amount of pipe above the top element is not critical as long as there is enough to maintain the impedance of that element. It could be 2 inches or 2 feet, as long as the match is okay it doesn't matter. The spacing of the element from the mast (reflector) affects impedance greatly. Don't try to mount your Cushcraft AFM-4DA or 44DA on a fiberglass or plastic mast pipe. It won't work Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110Mhz?
Not only that but they don't seem to know what it means to read a catalog before they decide on what to send you either. Neil Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: At 05:55 AM 1/25/05, you wrote: Hi all I've followed this thread with great interest seeing that our club just purchased a DB224E to replace an aged stationmaster. Question...We ordered the 138-150 mHz model, Tessco part # 62446. Tessco is a out of sight, out of mind organization. They do not know what the phrase after-sale customer service means. There was nothing in the paperwork referencing element spacing or anything else along those lines. Yup. They pulled a box off the shelf and shipped it. Contact the factory and ask for a mounting diagram / spacing chart. Just info about pattern adjustment. Please go to this web page: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/ant-sys-index.html Then scroll down to Antennas then DB and if you have anything that isn't there already I'd like to get a copy. I told the Tessco rep our frequency, 146.730, and he said there is nothing to tune or do to the antenna...just set it It's the set it that is the critical part here. and forget it. That's true. I do realize that some of the comments during this discussion have been related to other models of the DB224, Yup. The person who started the thread is converting a commercial range antenna down to the ham band. He's going to need to stretch the elements and get a new harness, and at that point he'll have what you have. however, I fell compelled to ask if there is anything we should do to our antenna prior to installing it (will be checking all the bolts and nuts of course). Buy a tube of Locktite and use it liberally after the nuts and bolts are tight. Does the other thread that discussed the element spacing apply to my model? Yep. Get a factory spacing chart and use it. Are you going to side mount it or top mount it? If on the side, then the distance to the tower is very important as it will control your pattern. And if you side mount it and you have ANY appreciable wind or ice then GET A TOP BRACE MADE FOR THE JOB and use it. Thanks a bunch in advance Bob, GMRS WPVV845, Amateur KG4WAD, LMRS WPXC892 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110Mhz?
Are you guys actually calling Tessco and asking technical questions? Why? They are merely a warehouse. They don't make anything. If you have technical questions about a product, you call the manufacturer. We've had nothing but good from Tessco, but we don't expect them to know a product better, or even as well as, the people who made it. Their customer service seems just fine to us. We use them corporate-wide on a national level. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Neil McKie wrote: Not only that but they don't seem to know what it means to read a catalog before they decide on what to send you either. Neil Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: At 05:55 AM 1/25/05, you wrote: Hi all I've followed this thread with great interest seeing that our club just purchased a DB224E to replace an aged stationmaster. Question...We ordered the 138-150 mHz model, Tessco part # 62446. Tessco is a out of sight, out of mind organization. They do not know what the phrase after-sale customer service means. There was nothing in the paperwork referencing element spacing or anything else along those lines. Yup. They pulled a box off the shelf and shipped it. Contact the factory and ask for a mounting diagram / spacing chart. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110Mhz?
Hello All, Tessco is fine and I would not say a bad word but. I buy things from time to time myself from them. I work for a smaller warehouse (Family owned) and they send all of us to seminars and sometimes factory training sessions on all products we carry. We do not employ order takers on the phone. Anyone here who answers the phone is an engineer! Yes people with a EE and or PE's (4 year degree) all with FCC GROL's. We are not the only company that does this and YES we can answer questions for people who call in and give them the right answer. We pride ourselves on this fact. There is a lot of smaller companies who provide this type of service and people just love the fact that they can call and ask a simple question and get a quick reply at no extra charge. Its called customer service. I hope we never lose it! We have lost enough in this great country without losing one more thing. Just my dimes worth on buying from a large box house. Dean Westbrook, EE,PE. Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
You may know the answers, but it is not easy to get them out of you. It took me three weeks to find out that COR was on pin 25 and not pin 24 like you had been telling me. Dave, K5EYP Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110Mhz? Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:52:06 EST Hello All, Tessco is fine and I would not say a bad word but. I buy things from time to time myself from them. I work for a smaller warehouse (Family owned) and they send all of us to seminars and sometimes factory training sessions on all products we carry. We do not employ order takers on the phone. Anyone here who answers the phone is an engineer! Yes people with a EE and or PE's (4 year degree) all with FCC GROL's. We are not the only company that does this and YES we can answer questions for people who call in and give them the right answer. We pride ourselves on this fact. There is a lot of smaller companies who provide this type of service and people just love the fact that they can call and ask a simple question and get a quick reply at no extra charge. Its called customer service. I hope we never lose it! We have lost enough in this great country without losing one more thing. Just my dimes worth on buying from a large box house. Dean Westbrook, EE,PE. Cook Towers, INC. __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 9:52:35 AM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
Dave, Letsget the whole story out. You your self told me you bought the controller not from us! You said you got all the program info from them! You told me you got no help or support from them. I called you to ask how you made out. You told me that the repeater we sold you worked 100% But you could not get it to work with your controller. I faxed you over my cheat sheet and I even told you to send it here and I would hook it up for you at no charge. If you do not think any of this is true a reminder that all of our phones are taped. So let us tell the whole truth not a half truth or I can send out a wave file. I and the company all ways try to help when we can. In your case I should have told you if it is not in the repeater as ordered I can't help. Then I would not get my finger bit off for trying to help with a product we did not sell. Like I said you your self said the repeater worked fine. The wait was that they gave you the wrong program info for hooking there controller up to our repeater. Enough said. I would be darn careful before you put out any more half truth on a public list. For you could easy be made a fool. Remember our phones have you on them. As for your wrong pin also a half truth as that came from the controller folks as did the cable. It was my cheat sheet that was right. I will take this off the list and write you direct. Dean Westbrook, EE, PE. Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
Good that you taped our conversations. A federal offense, you know, for not informing me that you were doing so. Play the tapes for the list so that they can hear you in person, for three weeks, repeatedly confirm that pin 24 was COR and that AUX Output 5 should be set to COR and Active High. On last Friday, you directed me to set AUX Out 5 to TXS and Active High. That didn't work either. On the cheat sheet you finally faxed to me on Monday, (after I threatened to send the repeater back to you and not pay you for it), you finally identified pin 25 as COR; pin 24 as TOR. On the program settings you were just as wrong as you were on the pin 24 COR. You indicated on your cheat sheet that the proper program settings for Operating Mode was No. When I informed you that no such selection was available on the software you sent with the repeater, you said that it was on your software and to just set it to Simplex. Wrong again. Simplex didn't work. Duplex, the only other choice does work quite nicely, thank you. You also finally indicated, on your now famous, cheat sheet that in the program AUX Out 5 needed to be set to TOR and Active High and that it was AUX Out 6 that needed to be set COR and Active High. That was the first time you mentioned AUX Out 6. What you failed to indicate is that under the AUX tab of the Function Port Settings there is no AUX In/Out unless you designate AUX 6 In/Out as Output on the preceding tab labeled AUX Select. (Comes as Input as default. So after all the driving back and forth to the repeater site for three weeks, (sometimes twice a day), and the countless calls to you and to Computer Automation Control, it finally works the way it should have the first time if you knew what you were doing and would be more interested in listening carefully to a question, thinking about the right answer and then giving the right answer the first time. Instead, because I didn't buy the controller from us, I got what you read above. Play the tapes for all concerned. They will get a kick out of how a graduate EE, PE, GROL, Esq., ESPN can guess so wrong, so many times even with all of his training and claims to have commissioned over 2,500 repeaters while I contemplate whether what legal action would be appropriate. By the way. Where is the circulator that I paid $253.50 + shipping for and was to be shipped 1/12/05? (Kathy Cook's letter, dated 1/7/05) Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:52:58 EST Dave, Lets get the whole story out. You your self told me you bought the controller not from us! You said you got all the program info from them! You told me you got no help or support from them. I called you to ask how you made out. You told me that the repeater we sold you worked 100% But you could not get it to work with your controller. I faxed you over my cheat sheet and I even told you to send it here and I would hook it up for you at no charge. If you do not think any of this is true a reminder that all of our phones are taped. So let us tell the whole truth not a half truth or I can send out a wave file. I and the company all ways try to help when we can. In your case I should have told you if it is not in the repeater as ordered I can't help. Then I would not get my finger bit off for trying to help with a product we did not sell. Like I said you your self said the repeater worked fine. The wait was that they gave you the wrong program info for hooking there controller up to our repeater. Enough said. I would be darn careful before you put out any more half truth on a public list. For you could easy be made a fool. Remember our phones have you on them. As for your wrong pin also a half truth as that came from the controller folks as did the cable. It was my cheat sheet that was right. I will take this off the list and write you direct. Dean Westbrook, EE, PE. Cook Towers, INC. __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 3:53:01 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
WOW! Sounds like Dave got his hand caught in the cookie jar. For those few on the list who do not know Dean. You mite have tried to remember where you herd the name. He worked for Motorola's design team for many years. He is a good church going person and onereal nice guy. He really knows his stuff. He is not a Ham sad to say but is in to GMRS. As for helping. He has helped me more then once. Last week end in the middle of the big snow storm he took a ride with me up to South MT. PA. I had called him to ask about solar cells just to pick his brain. He told me to pick him up and he would love to take a ride. Well 3 hours latter we where up at the tower site. The solar controller had taken a dump. We (mostly he) fixed it and it is working just fine. He would not take any pay or even let me buy him dinner. He just likes to help. At work he is the same way. He will help any one working or not. He just loves radio. One thing I have found is that if he tells you something you can go to the bank with it. Because it is 100% write or he will find the answer and get back to you. So as for Dave's blurb. NO WAY BUDDY! I am real sure that many on this list have many of there own Dean helped them out stories. I called over to there office but Dean had left early for the day. Old saying its not nice to bit the guys hand who helps you there are not many left. Plus you should not put things like that on a list you should just be a man and call that person. Very best of 73, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Dave, Letsget the whole story out. You your self told me you bought the controller not from us! You said you got all the program info from them! You told me you got no help or support from them. I called you to ask how you made out. You told me that the repeater we sold you worked 100% But you could not get it to work with your controller. I faxed you over my cheat sheet and I even told you to send it here and I would hook it up for you at no charge. If you do not think any of this is true a reminder that all of our phones are taped. So let us tell the whole truth not a half truth or I can send out a wave file. I and the company all ways try to help when we can. In your case I should have told you if it is not in the repeater as ordered I can't help. Then I would not get my finger bit off for trying to help with a product we did not sell. Like I said you your self said the repeater worked fine. The wait was that they gave you the wrong program info for hooking there controller up to our repeater. Enough said. I would be darn careful before you put out any more half truth on a public list. For you could easy be made a fool. Remember our phones have you on them. As for your wrong pin also a half truth as that came from the controller folks as did the cable. It was my cheat sheet that was right. I will take this off the list and write you direct. Dean Westbrook, EE, PE. Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
Russ, You don't remember, but it was on your recommendation that I called Cook Towers in the first place. Ask Dean to play the tapes and I'll FAX his cheat sheet to you, if you like. Wrong; wrong; wrong! Also, please run your emails through a spell checker before you send them. Thanks! Dave, K5EYP Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:45:25 -0500 WOW! Sounds like Dave got his hand caught in the cookie jar. For those few on the list who do not know Dean. You mite have tried to remember where you herd the name. He worked for Motorola's design team for many years. He is a good church going person and one real nice guy. He really knows his stuff. He is not a Ham sad to say but is in to GMRS. As for helping. He has helped me more then once. Last week end in the middle of the big snow storm he took a ride with me up to South MT. PA. I had called him to ask about solar cells just to pick his brain. He told me to pick him up and he would love to take a ride. Well 3 hours latter we where up at the tower site. The solar controller had taken a dump. We (mostly he) fixed it and it is working just fine. He would not take any pay or even let me buy him dinner. He just likes to help. At work he is the same way. He will help any one working or not. He just loves radio. One thing I have found is that if he tells you something you can go to the bank with it. Because it is 100% write or he will find the answer and get back to you. So as for Dave's blurb. NO WAY BUDDY! I am real sure that many on this list have many of there own Dean helped them out stories. I called over to there office but Dean had left early for the day. Old saying its not nice to bit the guys hand who helps you there are not many left. Plus you should not put things like that on a list you should just be a man and call that person. Very best of 73, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Dave, Lets get the whole story out. You your self told me you bought the controller not from us! You said you got all the program info from them! You told me you got no help or support from them. I called you to ask how you made out. You told me that the repeater we sold you worked 100% But you could not get it to work with your controller. I faxed you over my cheat sheet and I even told you to send it here and I would hook it up for you at no charge. If you do not think any of this is true a reminder that all of our phones are taped. So let us tell the whole truth not a half truth or I can send out a wave file. I and the company all ways try to help when we can. In your case I should have told you if it is not in the repeater as ordered I can't help. Then I would not get my finger bit off for trying to help with a product we did not sell. Like I said you your self said the repeater worked fine. The wait was that they gave you the wrong program info for hooking there controller up to our repeater. Enough said. I would be darn careful before you put out any more half truth on a public list. For you could easy be made a fool. Remember our phones have you on them. As for your wrong pin also a half truth as that came from the controller folks as did the cable. It was my cheat sheet that was right. I will take this off the list and write you direct. Dean Westbrook, EE, PE. Cook Towers, INC. -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 4:43:44 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
I will let Dean reply to this one but when you call it tells you the phones are taped. I guess you are trying to air your half truths and this is not the place. Why don't you call them and not air it on this list? Like I said you are not a Man to hide behind a key BD. Take it up off the list. I am sure the tape they have will not make you sound to good. And besides the wrong info it says came from your controller people why blast the folks who did help you this is just not right. Take it some where and tell some one who will belive your BS! We won't. Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: David Robichaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Good that you taped our conversations. A federal offense, you know, for not informing me that you were doing so. Play the tapes for the list so that they can hear you in person, for three weeks, repeatedly confirm that pin 24 was COR and that AUX Output 5 should be set to COR and Active High. On last Friday, you directed me to set AUX Out 5 to TXS and Active High. That didn't work either. On the cheat sheet you finally faxed to me on Monday, (after I threatened to send the repeater back to you and not pay you for it), you finally identified pin 25 as COR; pin 24 as TOR. On the program settings you were just as wrong as you were on the pin 24 COR. You indicated on your cheat sheet that the proper program settings for Operating Mode was No. When I informed you that no such selection was available on the software you sent with the repeater, you said that it was on your software and to just set it to Simplex. Wrong again. Simplex didn't work. Duplex, the only other choice does work quite nicely, thank you. You also finally indicated, on your now famous, cheat sheet that in the program AUX Out 5 needed to be set to TOR and Active High and that it was AUX Out 6 that needed to be set COR and Active High. That was the first time you mentioned AUX Out 6. What you failed to indicate is that under the AUX tab of the Function Port Settings there is no AUX In/Out unless you designate AUX 6 In/Out as Output on the preceding tab labeled AUX Select. (Comes as Input as default. So after all the driving back and forth to the repeater site for three weeks, (sometimes twice a day), and the countless calls to you and to Computer Automation Control, it finally works the way it should have the first time if you knew what you were doing and would be more interested in listening carefully to a question, thinking about the right answer and then giving the right answer the first time. Instead, because I didn't buy the controller from us, I got what you read above. Play the tapes for all concerned. They will get a kick out of how a graduate EE, PE, GROL, Esq., ESPN can guess so wrong, so many times even with all of his training and claims to have commissioned over 2,500 repeaters while I contemplate whether what legal action would be appropriate. By the way. Where is the circulator that I paid $253.50 + shipping for and was to be shipped 1/12/05? (Kathy Cook's letter, dated 1/7/05) Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:52:58 EST Dave, Lets get the whole story out. You your self told me you bought the controller not from us! You said you got all the program info from them! You told me you got no help or support from them. I called you to ask how you made out. You told me that the repeater we sold you worked 100% But you could not get it to work with your controller. I faxed you over my cheat sheet and I even told you to send it here and I would hook it up for you at no charge. If you do not think any of this is true a reminder that all of our phones are taped. So let us tell the whole truth not a half truth or I can send out a wave file. I and the company all ways try to help when we can. In your case I should have told you if it is not in the repeater as ordered I can't help. Then I would not get my finger bit off for trying to help with a product we did not sell. Like I said you your self said the repeater worked fine. The wait was that they gave you the wrong program info for hooking there controller up to our repeater. Enough said. I would be darn careful before you put out any more half truth on a public list. For you could easy be made a fool. Remember our phones have you on them. As for your wrong pin also a half truth as that came from the controller folks as did the cable. It was my cheat sheet that was right. I will take this off the list and write you direct. Dean Westbrook, EE, PE. Cook Towers, INC. __ Message transport security
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
I called Mr. Cook and he chose to hang up on me. Thanks for your advice on this matter. I find it is just as good as the advice you gave me to contact Cook Towers in the first place. Thanks again. Dave, K5EYP Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:05:33 -0500 I will let Dean reply to this one but when you call it tells you the phones are taped. I guess you are trying to air your half truths and this is not the place. Why don't you call them and not air it on this list? Like I said you are not a Man to hide behind a key BD. Take it up off the list. I am sure the tape they have will not make you sound to good. And besides the wrong info it says came from your controller people why blast the folks who did help you this is just not right. Take it some where and tell some one who will belive your BS! We won't. Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: David Robichaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Good that you taped our conversations. A federal offense, you know, for not informing me that you were doing so. Play the tapes for the list so that they can hear you in person, for three weeks, repeatedly confirm that pin 24 was COR and that AUX Output 5 should be set to COR and Active High. On last Friday, you directed me to set AUX Out 5 to TXS and Active High. That didn't work either. On the cheat sheet you finally faxed to me on Monday, (after I threatened to send the repeater back to you and not pay you for it), you finally identified pin 25 as COR; pin 24 as TOR. On the program settings you were just as wrong as you were on the pin 24 COR. You indicated on your cheat sheet that the proper program settings for Operating Mode was No. When I informed you that no such selection was available on the software you sent with the repeater, you said that it was on your software and to just set it to Simplex. Wrong again. Simplex didn't work. Duplex, the only other choice does work quite nicely, thank you. You also finally indicated, on your now famous, cheat sheet that in the program AUX Out 5 needed to be set to TOR and Active High and that it was AUX Out 6 that needed to be set COR and Active High. That was the first time you mentioned AUX Out 6. What you failed to indicate is that under the AUX tab of the Function Port Settings there is no AUX In/Out unless you designate AUX 6 In/Out as Output on the preceding tab labeled AUX Select. (Comes as Input as default. So after all the driving back and forth to the repeater site for three weeks, (sometimes twice a day), and the countless calls to you and to Computer Automation Control, it finally works the way it should have the first time if you knew what you were doing and would be more interested in listening carefully to a question, thinking about the right answer and then giving the right answer the first time. Instead, because I didn't buy the controller from us, I got what you read above. Play the tapes for all concerned. They will get a kick out of how a graduate EE, PE, GROL, Esq., ESPN can guess so wrong, so many times even with all of his training and claims to have commissioned over 2,500 repeaters while I contemplate whether what legal action would be appropriate. By the way. Where is the circulator that I paid $253.50 + shipping for and was to be shipped 1/12/05? (Kathy Cook's letter, dated 1/7/05) Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 15:52:58 EST Dave, Lets get the whole story out. You your self told me you bought the controller not from us! You said you got all the program info from them! You told me you got no help or support from them. I called you to ask how you made out. You told me that the repeater we sold you worked 100% But you could not get it to work with your controller. I faxed you over my cheat sheet and I even told you to send it here and I would hook it up for you at no charge. If you do not think any of this is true a reminder that all of our phones are taped. So let us tell the whole truth not a half truth or I can send out a wave file. I and the company all ways try to help when we can. In your case I should have told you if it is not in the repeater as ordered I can't help. Then I would not get my finger bit off for trying to help with a product we did not sell. Like I said you your self said the repeater worked fine. The wait was that they gave you the wrong program info for hooking there controller up to our repeater. Enough said. I would be darn careful before you put out any more half truth on a public list. For you could easy be made
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
Could you fine people PLEASE take this dispute/debate off list? TIA and 73, Kevin, K9HX At 05:14 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote: Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
I agree! I have been saying the same thing in the passed two e-mails. 73 Russ - Original Message - From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Could you fine people PLEASE take this dispute/debate off list? TIA and 73, Kevin, K9HX At 05:14 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote: Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
All true, I am going over tomorrow to see 1st hand what is going on and now that Dave said that I can hear the tapes in his e-mail they will play it. BTW it is so un-like Dean to give bad info. That is all I will say about this, He (Dave) owes them money and started a pile of crap in lew of payment. That I know for a fact. Very best of 73, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
I am sorry I did! I did not know you would try to stick them! This is my last post on this subject! You need to call them and be civil. - Original Message - From: David Robichaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Russ, You don't remember, but it was on your recommendation that I called Cook Towers in the first place. Ask Dean to play the tapes and I'll FAX his cheat sheet to you, if you like. Wrong; wrong; wrong! Also, please run your emails through a spell checker before you send them. Thanks! Dave, K5EYP Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:45:25 -0500 WOW! Sounds like Dave got his hand caught in the cookie jar. For those few on the list who do not know Dean. You mite have tried to remember where you herd the name. He worked for Motorola's design team for many years. He is a good church going person and one real nice guy. He really knows his stuff. He is not a Ham sad to say but is in to GMRS. As for helping. He has helped me more then once. Last week end in the middle of the big snow storm he took a ride with me up to South MT. PA. I had called him to ask about solar cells just to pick his brain. He told me to pick him up and he would love to take a ride. Well 3 hours latter we where up at the tower site. The solar controller had taken a dump. We (mostly he) fixed it and it is working just fine. He would not take any pay or even let me buy him dinner. He just likes to help. At work he is the same way. He will help any one working or not. He just loves radio. One thing I have found is that if he tells you something you can go to the bank with it. Because it is 100% write or he will find the answer and get back to you. So as for Dave's blurb. NO WAY BUDDY! I am real sure that many on this list have many of there own Dean helped them out stories. I called over to there office but Dean had left early for the day. Old saying its not nice to bit the guys hand who helps you there are not many left. Plus you should not put things like that on a list you should just be a man and call that person. Very best of 73, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Dave, Lets get the whole story out. You your self told me you bought the controller not from us! You said you got all the program info from them! You told me you got no help or support from them. I called you to ask how you made out. You told me that the repeater we sold you worked 100% But you could not get it to work with your controller. I faxed you over my cheat sheet and I even told you to send it here and I would hook it up for you at no charge. If you do not think any of this is true a reminder that all of our phones are taped. So let us tell the whole truth not a half truth or I can send out a wave file. I and the company all ways try to help when we can. In your case I should have told you if it is not in the repeater as ordered I can't help. Then I would not get my finger bit off for trying to help with a product we did not sell. Like I said you your self said the repeater worked fine. The wait was that they gave you the wrong program info for hooking there controller up to our repeater. Enough said. I would be darn careful before you put out any more half truth on a public list. For you could easy be made a fool. Remember our phones have you on them. As for your wrong pin also a half truth as that came from the controller folks as did the cable. It was my cheat sheet that was right. I will take this off the list and write you direct. Dean Westbrook, EE, PE. Cook Towers, INC. -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 4:43:44 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
Still not using the spell checker, I see. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:41:23 -0500 I agree! I have been saying the same thing in the passed two e-mails. 73 Russ - Original Message - From: Kevin Berlen, K9HX [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Could you fine people PLEASE take this dispute/debate off list? TIA and 73, Kevin, K9HX At 05:14 PM 1/26/2005, you wrote: Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 5:34:58 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
It's lieu not lew, Russ. The payment terms on the repeater sold to the county is 30 days from invoice. It will be paid by the county as agreed. They will not, however, pay for Cook Tower's mistake on the freight charge. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:45:42 -0500 All true, I am going over tomorrow to see 1st hand what is going on and now that Dave said that I can hear the tapes in his e-mail they will play it. BTW it is so un-like Dean to give bad info. That is all I will say about this, He (Dave) owes them money and started a pile of crap in lew of payment. That I know for a fact. Very best of 73, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 5:36:04 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
This is getting old!!! - Original Message - From: David Robichaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 It's lieu not lew, Russ. The payment terms on the repeater sold to the county is 30 days from invoice. It will be paid by the county as agreed. They will not, however, pay for Cook Tower's mistake on the freight charge. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:45:42 -0500 All true, I am going over tomorrow to see 1st hand what is going on and now that Dave said that I can hear the tapes in his e-mail they will play it. BTW it is so un-like Dean to give bad info. That is all I will say about this, He (Dave) owes them money and started a pile of crap in lew of payment. That I know for a fact. Very best of 73, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 5:36:04 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224
I'm finished! Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 16:11:00 -0700 This is getting old!!! - Original Message - From: David Robichaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 It's lieu not lew, Russ. The payment terms on the repeater sold to the county is 30 days from invoice. It will be paid by the county as agreed. They will not, however, pay for Cook Tower's mistake on the freight charge. Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 17:45:42 -0500 All true, I am going over tomorrow to see 1st hand what is going on and now that Dave said that I can hear the tapes in his e-mail they will play it. BTW it is so un-like Dean to give bad info. That is all I will say about this, He (Dave) owes them money and started a pile of crap in lew of payment. That I know for a fact. Very best of 73, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Russ, Why not let them discuss the subject alone? We have no first hand knowledge of the situation in question (I know I don't, and I seriously doubt you do either), so our input is not helpful. This is not the time to promote either party, take sides publicly, or to draw conclusions and make judgments. It is also not the time to jump on the bandwagon for either party. They are big boys and can speak for themselves. I will say that I don't know what this has to do with a DB224... Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 5:36:04 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links __ Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com 6:11:12 PM ET - 1/26/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
When I converted my 224 to VHF amateur band, the element length went from 35 inches (150mhz unit) to 37 inches (144mhz). The spacing on the elements was somewhat limited by the new harness length. Had to work with it a good bit to get somewhat equal spacing on the pole. Had to lengthen the pole some also to get the clams down and away from the elements. I did the double cut on both ends and inserted a smaller tube inside the orginal. Tig Welded them back 100%. Been playing fine for 4 years. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kf0m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you look back at a post I did a couple of days ago The variable element to element spacing on our DB224E's new from the factory ran anywhere from 62 to 70 inches. If you do some web searches there are several methods that have been used to extend the short elements. These range from cutting the elements and making a trombone slide arrangement, to inserting a screw in the ends, to using long hose clamps and letting tails stick out the right length. We happened to be fortunate enough to have a welder in the club and he welded short stubs of aluminum tubing on the ends of each 35 inch element to extend them out to the 37 inch dimension. John Lock KF0M Wichita KS kf0m at arrl dot net Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Kevin is quite correct. Tis the phasing harness construction that determines downtilt of a corporate feed antenna (or physical tilt of the antenna). Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? russ wrote: Hey every one, Let us not forget that they change the spacing to get down till on the DB-224. Wrong. The only way to get downtilt on a binary fed exposed dipole array is to either build the phasing harness so the electrical length feeding each element is slightly longer in phase with respect to the one next to it, or mechanically tilt the array if it is a cardiod pattern. Varying spacing between elements has little effect on the vertical beam pattern. There is very little difference in the performance of a dipole array with varying amounts of spacing between the elements. Most manufacturers shoot for about 80 to 90% of a full wavelength between elements, but the spacing is really not that critical. Also, the amount of pipe above the top element is not critical as long as there is enough to maintain the impedance of that element. It could be 2 inches or 2 feet, as long as the match is okay it doesn't matter. The spacing of the element from the mast (reflector) affects impedance greatly. Don't try to mount your Cushcraft AFM-4DA or 44DA on a fiberglass or plastic mast pipe. It won't work Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
There is a model folded dipole I saw for 30 megs that had tunable rods at the top of the loops. It had a set screw an could be field adjusted. But then this is lowband and it was more to save weight and make the antenna tunable across more of the band. Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Chuck Kelsey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:46 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? Mike's suggestion is the best method and the one I would choose. I would suspect that this would be the method used by a ham that has no problem drilling a hole in his car to mount a mobile antenna. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that the extend the element with a bolt crowd is the same group that uses a mag mount mobile antenna. Just an observation. You may disagree. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? At 04:29 PM 1/23/05, you wrote: I have seen the screw in the ends modification and am leaning in that direction. But they need to be well sealed I am sure to prevent corrosion and the associated noise that can be produced. I understand that the element to the support contact needs to be welded also to remove that intermittent connection and the possibility of corrosion causing noise if used in repeater service. Russ N4KOX I've also seen a DB224 that was modified by a ham. He cut the elements just inside the curve and spliced in tubing (that was picked so that the inside diameter just fit the outside diameter of the element) to stretch the element. Four elements times two upper and two lower cuts = 16 new joints. He used hacksaw cuts tubing and stainless steel hose clamps to verify the lengths. After the test was done the antenna was took back down and everything welded. The modified antenna was coupled with a new harness made for 2m and the combination outperformed anything else at that site. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Correct. Phelps Dodge did this on their VHF low-band antennas only. I'm not saying that drilling a hole at the ends of the loops and adding a bolt to extend them won't work. I'm saying that actually extending the loop is a better choice form a mechanical standpoint. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Kevin King [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:29 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? There is a model folded dipole I saw for 30 megs that had tunable rods at the top of the loops. It had a set screw an could be field adjusted. But then this is lowband and it was more to save weight and make the antenna tunable across more of the band. Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message- From: Chuck Kelsey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:46 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? Mike's suggestion is the best method and the one I would choose. I would suspect that this would be the method used by a ham that has no problem drilling a hole in his car to mount a mobile antenna. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that the extend the element with a bolt crowd is the same group that uses a mag mount mobile antenna. Just an observation. You may disagree. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? At 04:29 PM 1/23/05, you wrote: I have seen the screw in the ends modification and am leaning in that direction. But they need to be well sealed I am sure to prevent corrosion and the associated noise that can be produced. I understand that the element to the support contact needs to be welded also to remove that intermittent connection and the possibility of corrosion causing noise if used in repeater service. Russ N4KOX I've also seen a DB224 that was modified by a ham. He cut the elements just inside the curve and spliced in tubing (that was picked so that the inside diameter just fit the outside diameter of the element) to stretch the element. Four elements times two upper and two lower cuts = 16 new joints. He used hacksaw cuts tubing and stainless steel hose clamps to verify the lengths. After the test was done the antenna was took back down and everything welded. The modified antenna was coupled with a new harness made for 2m and the combination outperformed anything else at that site. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
True but when you change the harness to get down tilt (PER DB) you also change the spacing. (Also per DB) . It is also just cheaper to buy a new DB-224 for the two meter Ham band. You get a new antenna and it will work for many years. Lord knows they are cheaper then grits. 73 Russ, - Original Message - From: Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? russ wrote: Hey every one, Let us not forget that they change the spacing to get down till on the DB-224. Wrong. The only way to get downtilt on a binary fed exposed dipole array is to either build the phasing harness so the electrical length feeding each element is slightly longer in phase with respect to the one next to it, or mechanically tilt the array if it is a cardiod pattern. Varying spacing between elements has little effect on the vertical beam pattern. There is very little difference in the performance of a dipole array with varying amounts of spacing between the elements. Most manufacturers shoot for about 80 to 90% of a full wavelength between elements, but the spacing is really not that critical. Also, the amount of pipe above the top element is not critical as long as there is enough to maintain the impedance of that element. It could be 2 inches or 2 feet, as long as the match is okay it doesn't matter. The spacing of the element from the mast (reflector) affects impedance greatly. Don't try to mount your Cushcraft AFM-4DA or 44DA on a fiberglass or plastic mast pipe. It won't work Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
This is also why you get different spacing on the dipoles. It also depends what year in time your harness was made. Over the years they changed coax with new owners (of DB) and that also has a spacing change. Be careful. If you are and do it right you will not have to buy a new DB-224. If not you can go nuts chasseing your tail. Dean Westbrook, EE,PE. Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Hi all I've followed this thread with great interest seeing that our club just purchased a DB224E to replace an aged stationmaster. Question...We ordered the 138-150 mHz model, Tessco part # 62446. There was nothing in the paperwork referencing element spacing or anything else along those lines. Just info about pattern adjustment. I told the Tessco rep our frequency, 146.730, and he said there is nothing to tune or do to the antenna...just set it and forget it. I do realize that some of the comments during this discussion have been related to other models of the DB224, however, I fell compelled to ask if there is anything we should do to our antenna prior to installing it (will be checking all the bolts and nuts of course). Does the other thread that discussed the element spacing apply to my model? Thanks a bunch in advance Bob, GMRS WPVV845, Amateur KG4WAD, LMRS WPXC892 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Well we all deal with Tessco but when you deal with the large box house you get NO consumer service. And no tech support. Yes you could have ordered your 224 from Tessco tuned for your transmit but you would have had to wait for it. Good luck! Dean, Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
I agree, I took and antenna up and down a temporary tower many of times before placing in on an 85' tower for permanent installation. Helps to have a hazer on a tower to work with. Makes it nice. Mathew -Original Message- From: Chuck Kelsey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:01 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? The thread concerns taking an out of band antenna down to the ham portion of the band - necessitating a new harness and different spacing. If yours is for the correct range, it's ready to inspect and put up. Never hurts to go over everything before taking it up in the air. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: rtoplus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:55 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? Hi all I've followed this thread with great interest seeing that our club just purchased a DB224E to replace an aged stationmaster. Question...We ordered the 138-150 mHz model, Tessco part # 62446. There was nothing in the paperwork referencing element spacing or anything else along those lines. Just info about pattern adjustment. I told the Tessco rep our frequency, 146.730, and he said there is nothing to tune or do to the antenna...just set it and forget it. I do realize that some of the comments during this discussion have been related to other models of the DB224, however, I fell compelled to ask if there is anything we should do to our antenna prior to installing it (will be checking all the bolts and nuts of course). Does the other thread that discussed the element spacing apply to my model? Thanks a bunch in advance Bob, GMRS WPVV845, Amateur KG4WAD, LMRS WPXC892 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
The thread concerns taking an out of band antenna down to the ham portion of the band - necessitating a new harness and different spacing. If yours is for the correct range, it's ready to inspect and put up. Never hurts to go over everything before taking it up in the air. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: rtoplus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:55 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? Hi all I've followed this thread with great interest seeing that our club just purchased a DB224E to replace an aged stationmaster. Question...We ordered the 138-150 mHz model, Tessco part # 62446. There was nothing in the paperwork referencing element spacing or anything else along those lines. Just info about pattern adjustment. I told the Tessco rep our frequency, 146.730, and he said there is nothing to tune or do to the antenna...just set it and forget it. I do realize that some of the comments during this discussion have been related to other models of the DB224, however, I fell compelled to ask if there is anything we should do to our antenna prior to installing it (will be checking all the bolts and nuts of course). Does the other thread that discussed the element spacing apply to my model? Thanks a bunch in advance Bob, GMRS WPVV845, Amateur KG4WAD, LMRS WPXC892 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
At 05:55 AM 1/25/05, you wrote: Hi all I've followed this thread with great interest seeing that our club just purchased a DB224E to replace an aged stationmaster. Question...We ordered the 138-150 mHz model, Tessco part # 62446. Tessco is a out of sight, out of mind organization. They do not know what the phrase after-sale customer service means. There was nothing in the paperwork referencing element spacing or anything else along those lines. Yup. They pulled a box off the shelf and shipped it. Contact the factory and ask for a mounting diagram / spacing chart. Just info about pattern adjustment. Please go to this web page: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/ant-sys-index.html Then scroll down to Antennas then DB and if you have anything that isn't there already I'd like to get a copy. I told the Tessco rep our frequency, 146.730, and he said there is nothing to tune or do to the antenna...just set it It's the set it that is the critical part here. and forget it. That's true. I do realize that some of the comments during this discussion have been related to other models of the DB224, Yup. The person who started the thread is converting a commercial range antenna down to the ham band. He's going to need to stretch the elements and get a new harness, and at that point he'll have what you have. however, I fell compelled to ask if there is anything we should do to our antenna prior to installing it (will be checking all the bolts and nuts of course). Buy a tube of Locktite and use it liberally after the nuts and bolts are tight. Does the other thread that discussed the element spacing apply to my model? Yep. Get a factory spacing chart and use it. Are you going to side mount it or top mount it? If on the side, then the distance to the tower is very important as it will control your pattern. And if you side mount it and you have ANY appreciable wind or ice then GET A TOP BRACE MADE FOR THE JOB and use it. Thanks a bunch in advance Bob, GMRS WPVV845, Amateur KG4WAD, LMRS WPXC892 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Thanks all for the infowipes nervous perspiration drops off brow I thought it would be fine, but I wanted to make sure. We will be side mounting the antenna so I will be ordering the DB5001 mounting kit. 73 Bob, GMRS WPVV845, Amateur KG4WAD, LMRS WPXC892 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
I have seen the screw in the ends modification and am leaning in that direction. But they need to be well sealed I am sure to prevent corrosion and the associated noise that can be produced. I understand that the element to the support contact needs to be welded also to remove that intermittent connection and the possibility of corrosion causing noise if used in repeater service. Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kf0m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you look back at a post I did a couple of days ago The variable element to element spacing on our DB224E's new from the factory ran anywhere from 62 to 70 inches. If you do some web searches there are several methods that have been used to extend the short elements. These range from cutting the elements and making a trombone slide arrangement, to inserting a screw in the ends, to using long hose clamps and letting tails stick out the right length. We happened to be fortunate enough to have a welder in the club and he welded short stubs of aluminum tubing on the ends of each 35 inch element to extend them out to the 37 inch dimension. John Lock KF0M Wichita KS kf0m at arrl dot net Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
The distance from the top of the pole to the top dipole is not critical and could easily be moved up to get more room down below for more spacing. The dipoles need to work up against the pole for proper impedance but if the top of the top dipole is 3-4 down that should be OK. If you still run out of room at the bottom, the bottom dipole can be in the clamp area if it faces away from the clamps. Laryn K8TVZ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
To bad that both of the guys that had the most to do with the design of these two antennas are either semi-retired or retired and neither one are Hams. Wouldn't it be great if they were? Paul -Original Message- From: Laryn Lohman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:00 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? The distance from the top of the pole to the top dipole is not critical and could easily be moved up to get more room down below for more spacing. The dipoles need to work up against the pole for proper impedance but if the top of the top dipole is 3-4 down that should be OK. If you still run out of room at the bottom, the bottom dipole can be in the clamp area if it faces away from the clamps. Laryn K8TVZ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Mike's suggestion is the best method and the one I would choose. I would suspect that this would be the method used by a ham that has no problem drilling a hole in his car to mount a mobile antenna. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that the extend the element with a bolt crowd is the same group that uses a mag mount mobile antenna. Just an observation. You may disagree. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? At 04:29 PM 1/23/05, you wrote: I have seen the screw in the ends modification and am leaning in that direction. But they need to be well sealed I am sure to prevent corrosion and the associated noise that can be produced. I understand that the element to the support contact needs to be welded also to remove that intermittent connection and the possibility of corrosion causing noise if used in repeater service. Russ N4KOX I've also seen a DB224 that was modified by a ham. He cut the elements just inside the curve and spliced in tubing (that was picked so that the inside diameter just fit the outside diameter of the element) to stretch the element. Four elements times two upper and two lower cuts = 16 new joints. He used hacksaw cuts tubing and stainless steel hose clamps to verify the lengths. After the test was done the antenna was took back down and everything welded. The modified antenna was coupled with a new harness made for 2m and the combination outperformed anything else at that site. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Hello All, Do not count on this info being right. The top needs to be right from the top of the mast support pipe to the 1st dipole and then center to center on each after. If the support pipe is not long enough get a longer one. They come in different lengths one for 222 is shorter then one for 174 and one for 144 is longer then the support pile for 174. I have noted this in our warehouse when they are side by side. Here at work we take a DB-224 in band and tune it to the frequency need by the user and everything on this antenna matters so be mindful when you tune or covert one. Matthew is correct after you change the dipoles for Ham uses from the 150 range you must change the harness to make it play right. Oh it will work but not as well as it could. Like someone said this morning on the list. There are people who use mag mounts and tell you how great they work. BIG GRIN! Dean Westbrook, EE,PE Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Part of the different's is between the harness. Different'sin factors in the coax used. That is why we have to watch out here at work when repairing DB-224's. Be careful. Over the years and with change of ownership DB has made changes along the way. Dean Westbrook, EE,PE. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
At 04:29 PM 1/23/05, you wrote: I have seen the screw in the ends modification and am leaning in that direction. But they need to be well sealed I am sure to prevent corrosion and the associated noise that can be produced. I understand that the element to the support contact needs to be welded also to remove that intermittent connection and the possibility of corrosion causing noise if used in repeater service. Russ N4KOX I've also seen a DB224 that was modified by a ham. He cut the elements just inside the curve and spliced in tubing (that was picked so that the inside diameter just fit the outside diameter of the element) to stretch the element. Four elements times two upper and two lower cuts = 16 new joints. He used hacksaw cuts tubing and stainless steel hose clamps to verify the lengths. After the test was done the antenna was took back down and everything welded. The modified antenna was coupled with a new harness made for 2m and the combination outperformed anything else at that site. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
I will have to agree with Dean on this one. I took the DB-224 as it sat with the changed elements, old 150-160 harness, put the antenna up 60 in the air, and it was out performed by 20 to 25 miles against a Diamond XNH-510 Dual Band Antenna. Impedance if I remember right was somewhere near the 80s. VSWR was right about 1.6:1. And I agree with the mag mounts, the family thinks I am nuts for popping two holes right in the truck of my Cadillac. When I get done with the car, for $11.00 a piece Ill just leave the mounts and cut the coax. Mathew From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 5:44 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? Hello All, Do not count on this info being right. The top needs to be right from the top of the mast support pipe to the 1st dipole and then center to center on each after. If the support pipe is not long enough get a longer one. They come in different lengths one for 222 is shorter then one for 174 and one for 144 is longer then the support pile for 174. I have noted this in our warehouse when they are side by side. Here at work we take a DB-224 in band and tune it to the frequency need by the user and everything on this antenna matters so be mindful when you tune or covert one. Matthew is correct after you change the dipoles for Ham uses from the 150 range you must change the harness to make it play right. Oh it will work but not as well as it could. Like someone said this morning on the list. There are people who use mag mounts and tell you how great they work. BIG GRIN! Dean Westbrook, EE,PE Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Gee wonder if I can get him to do that on my DB-304, that would be nice. A one of those days projects. Hamfest days. But I have seen one of these done about the same way, and has had no problems with it since it went into service. Should have been a machinest. Mathew -Original Message- From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 6:17 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? At 03:46 AM 1/24/05, you wrote: Mike's suggestion is the best method and the one I would choose. I would suspect that this would be the method used by a ham that has no problem drilling a hole in his car to mount a mobile antenna. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet that the extend the element with a bolt crowd is the same group that uses a mag mount mobile antenna. Just an observation. You may disagree. Chuck WB2EDV Thanks for the vote of confidence, Chuck. To elaborate slightly and to correct what I wrote. I've also seen a DB224 that was modified by a ham. He cut the elements just inside the curve and spliced in tubing I should have said in the middle of the straight section above the curve. The modified antenna had the larger diameter tubing bridging the gap in the element, and you obviously can't do that if you've hacksawed the element in the straight section right above the curve. He used hacksaw cuts tubing and stainless steel hose clamps to verify the lengths. I meant to type He used a hacksaw to make the cuts in the tubing and stainless steel hose clamps to verify the lengths. It was a Sawzall with the finest-tooth hacksaw blade he could find. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Hey every one, Let us not forget that they change the spacing to get down till on the DB-224. Also Dean does this stuff every day. The old saying you can't beat a person at there own game mite apply here. 73 Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: highlandfl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:05 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? I just measured mine (not as cold in North Florida as for you guys, but it was interesting to measure the deminsions on my two antennas: Both Had top element center 26 from top of pipe (so that was OK.) Both had 34.25 inch loops (top to bottom)(reasonable) Both had 62 separations from center of mount for each loop to the next (unexpected.) I was concerned that I would not have enough separation between elements - looks like I have plenty. It really surprised me that my spacing was more than the spacing for 2 meters, escpecially since the elements are much smaller than the 37 that John has and Mathew's given dimension and Cook towers confirmation of 35.25. Interesting. Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kf0m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are looking for the length of the loops in addition to the spacing the 2 meter DB224's I just put up had 37 inch loops on a 22 ft mast. The factory element spacing was not consistent so you should definitely check your spacing per the dimensions Russ gave. I have one 150 mhz DB224 and it has 35 inch loops on an 18 ft mast. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
russ wrote: Hey every one, Let us not forget that they change the spacing to get down till on the DB-224. Wrong. The only way to get downtilt on a binary fed exposed dipole array is to either build the phasing harness so the electrical length feeding each element is slightly longer in phase with respect to the one next to it, or mechanically tilt the array if it is a cardiod pattern. Varying spacing between elements has little effect on the vertical beam pattern. There is very little difference in the performance of a dipole array with varying amounts of spacing between the elements. Most manufacturers shoot for about 80 to 90% of a full wavelength between elements, but the spacing is really not that critical. Also, the amount of pipe above the top element is not critical as long as there is enough to maintain the impedance of that element. It could be 2 inches or 2 feet, as long as the match is okay it doesn't matter. The spacing of the element from the mast (reflector) affects impedance greatly. Don't try to mount your Cushcraft AFM-4DA or 44DA on a fiberglass or plastic mast pipe. It won't work Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Well I am not so sure on that one just yet. Was told that the first element was 26 from the top, and each element was 58 1/4 center to center from there, and if that is true, then I'm going to end up with my last element down into the clamp area. I've been sick most of this week, so have not really messed with it. Hopefully Tuesday I will be feeling better and will be able to get the harness on the antenna then. Mathew Thank you, Mathew. I had been following the discussion of element spacing. Now I need to measure my spacing to see if it is in the right range - I suspect not. What was the spacing that you determined was correct for yours? Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are 35 1/4 from top to bottom of the element. You will also need to change the phasing harness. I have one here that had the elements changed, but did not have the harness change, impedance was way out of wack. I just ordered a new harness from Cook Towers, getting ready to install it. Mathew I need to mesaure the DB224 I have for use at 145.11 Mhz. and modify as necessary. Someone had given me the 2 meter loop length but I can not locate it. Anyone know what it should be? or the range for Amateur 2 Meters vs. commercial 150+? Thanks a lot for your help. Russ N4KOX Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
This is 100% correct right of the DB chart. You will be just fine if you set your DB-224 up this way! Dean Westbrook, EE,PE. Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
It is 28" from the top of the pipe not from the end cap on the top of the antenna. Dean, Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Thanks Dean, but will the bottom element end up into the mounting section of the antenna, at least half of it? Mathew From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? This is 100% correct right of the DB chart. You will be just fine if you set your DB-224 up this way! Dean Westbrook, EE,PE. Cook Towers, INC. Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Ok, was given 26, might have wrote it down wrong. Thanks for clearing that one up. Mathew From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:22 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? It is 28 from the top of the pipe not from the end cap on the top of the antenna. Dean, Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Thanks, I hope you feel better soon. Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I am not so sure on that one just yet. Was told that the first element was 26 from the top, and each element was 58 1/4 center to center from there, and if that is true, then I'm going to end up with my last element down into the clamp area. I've been sick most of this week, so have not really messed with it. Hopefully Tuesday I will be feeling better and will be able to get the harness on the antenna then. Mathew Thank you, Mathew. I had been following the discussion of element spacing. Now I need to measure my spacing to see if it is in the right range - I suspect not. What was the spacing that you determined was correct for yours? Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are 35 1/4 from top to bottom of the element. You will also need to change the phasing harness. I have one here that had the elements changed, but did not have the harness change, impedance was way out of wack. I just ordered a new harness from Cook Towers, getting ready to install it. Mathew I need to mesaure the DB224 I have for use at 145.11 Mhz. and modify as necessary. Someone had given me the 2 meter loop length but I can not locate it. Anyone know what it should be? or the range for Amateur 2 Meters vs. commercial 150+? Thanks a lot for your help. Russ N4KOX Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Hey Mathew, This is how we set up our DB-224 in Ocean City NJ and it works real well. But come down 26 from the top of the pipe and not the point on the end cap. If you do it will through you off all the way down. No the last dipole will NOT hang off the end of the support pipe unless the support pipe is the wrong one. Sounds like you will have fun when the weather breaks. 73 Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 5:08 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? Well I am not so sure on that one just yet. Was told that the first element was 26 from the top, and each element was 58 1/4 center to center from there, and if that is true, then I'm going to end up with my last element down into the clamp area. I've been sick most of this week, so have not really messed with it. Hopefully Tuesday I will be feeling better and will be able to get the harness on the antenna then. Mathew Thank you, Mathew. I had been following the discussion of element spacing. Now I need to measure my spacing to see if it is in the right range - I suspect not. What was the spacing that you determined was correct for yours? Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are 35 1/4 from top to bottom of the element. You will also need to change the phasing harness. I have one here that had the elements changed, but did not have the harness change, impedance was way out of wack. I just ordered a new harness from Cook Towers, getting ready to install it. Mathew I need to mesaure the DB224 I have for use at 145.11 Mhz. and modify as necessary. Someone had given me the 2 meter loop length but I can not locate it. Anyone know what it should be? or the range for Amateur 2 Meters vs. commercial 150+? Thanks a lot for your help. Russ N4KOX Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
Oh indeed, will give it a shot and see what happens, hate to mess it up since I have to redrill the holes for the new harness. As for fun when the weather breaks, you bet, a 100' Self Support Pyrod to install, at least 4 other towers for GMRS and the repeater, all over 100'. Sounds like a busy spring and summer for me. Then my buddy is installing a 100' tower. Got lots to do and little time to get it all done in. Thanks Russ. Mathew Hey Mathew, This is how we set up our DB-224 in Ocean City NJ and it works real well. But come down 26 from the top of the pipe and not the point on the end cap. If you do it will through you off all the way down. No the last dipole will NOT hang off the end of the support pipe unless the support pipe is the wrong one. Sounds like you will have fun when the weather breaks. 73 Russ, W3CH Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
If you are looking for the length of the loops in addition to the spacing the 2 meter DB224's I just put up had 37 inch loops on a 22 ft mast. The factory element spacing was not consistent so you should definitely check your spacing per the dimensions Russ gave. I have one 150 mhz DB224 and it has 35 inch loops on an 18 ft mast. John Lock KF0M Wichita KS kf0m at arrl dot net -Original Message- From: Mathew Quaife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 4:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? Well I am not so sure on that one just yet. Was told that the first element was 26 from the top, and each element was 58 1/4 center to center from there, and if that is true, then I'm going to end up with my last element down into the clamp area. I've been sick most of this week, so have not really messed with it. Hopefully Tuesday I will be feeling better and will be able to get the harness on the antenna then. Mathew Thank you, Mathew. I had been following the discussion of element spacing. Now I need to measure my spacing to see if it is in the right range - I suspect not. What was the spacing that you determined was correct for yours? Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: They are 35 1/4 from top to bottom of the element. You will also need to change the phasing harness. I have one here that had the elements changed, but did not have the harness change, impedance was way out of wack. I just ordered a new harness from Cook Towers, getting ready to install it. Mathew I need to mesaure the DB224 I have for use at 145.11 Mhz. and modify as necessary. Someone had given me the 2 meter loop length but I can not locate it. Anyone know what it should be? or the range for Amateur 2 Meters vs. commercial 150+? Thanks a lot for your help. Russ N4KOX Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
I just measured mine (not as cold in North Florida as for you guys, but it was interesting to measure the deminsions on my two antennas: Both Had top element center 26 from top of pipe (so that was OK.) Both had 34.25 inch loops (top to bottom)(reasonable) Both had 62 separations from center of mount for each loop to the next (unexpected.) I was concerned that I would not have enough separation between elements - looks like I have plenty. It really surprised me that my spacing was more than the spacing for 2 meters, escpecially since the elements are much smaller than the 37 that John has and Mathew's given dimension and Cook towers confirmation of 35.25. Interesting. Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kf0m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are looking for the length of the loops in addition to the spacing the 2 meter DB224's I just put up had 37 inch loops on a 22 ft mast. The factory element spacing was not consistent so you should definitely check your spacing per the dimensions Russ gave. I have one 150 mhz DB224 and it has 35 inch loops on an 18 ft mast. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz?
If you look back at a post I did a couple of days ago The variable element to element spacing on our DB224E's new from the factory ran anywhere from 62 to 70 inches. If you do some web searches there are several methods that have been used to extend the short elements. These range from cutting the elements and making a trombone slide arrangement, to inserting a screw in the ends, to using long hose clamps and letting tails stick out the right length. We happened to be fortunate enough to have a welder in the club and he welded short stubs of aluminum tubing on the ends of each 35 inch element to extend them out to the 37 inch dimension. John Lock KF0M Wichita KS kf0m at arrl dot net -Original Message- From: highlandfl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 5:05 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Loop Lengths for 145.110 Mhz? I just measured mine (not as cold in North Florida as for you guys, but it was interesting to measure the deminsions on my two antennas: Both Had top element center 26 from top of pipe (so that was OK.) Both had 34.25 inch loops (top to bottom)(reasonable) Both had 62 separations from center of mount for each loop to the next (unexpected.) I was concerned that I would not have enough separation between elements - looks like I have plenty. It really surprised me that my spacing was more than the spacing for 2 meters, escpecially since the elements are much smaller than the 37 that John has and Mathew's given dimension and Cook towers confirmation of 35.25. Interesting. Russ N4KOX --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kf0m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are looking for the length of the loops in addition to the spacing the 2 meter DB224's I just put up had 37 inch loops on a 22 ft mast. The factory element spacing was not consistent so you should definitely check your spacing per the dimensions Russ gave. I have one 150 mhz DB224 and it has 35 inch loops on an 18 ft mast. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] RE: DB224 Spacing
Do you have any means to scan paperwork? If so, could I get you to scan any paperwork that came with the 224 and 228? If you look at http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/ant-sys-index.html and scroll down to the DB antennas section you will see that all we have is the DB201 and the DB420. Mike WA6ILQ At 06:37 PM 1/19/05, you wrote: I just finished putting up a new dB228 and two new DB224 antennas the spacing between elements was inconsistent from element to element on all of the antennas. The shortest distance was 62 inches and the longest was 71 inches as installed by the factory. Some of the other measurements were 70.5, 69, 63.5, 68, 67.5, 64.5, and 68.5 inches. So take your pick. These have the 37 inch elements on the 22 ft mast. Also, I found all of the nuts loose that attach the harness to the elements so be sure and torque them down before you put it up. John Lock KF0M Wichita KS kf0m at arrl dot net -Original Message- From: w9mwq [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 3:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB224 Spacing Anyone have the spacing information on the DB224 antenna with the new phasing harness? I just got on in from Cook towers today, elements are the right length, now just for the spacing information. Thanks. Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Element Impedance Info Needed
Someone posted this link not long ago about this subject. http://www.kc5dgc.net/db224.htm --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, w9mwq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anyone tell me the impedance of the elements on a DB224 Antenna. I need to rebuild a phasing harnass for an antenna that has been hit by lightning. Any help would be appreciated in this endeavor. Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Element Impedance Info Needed
Assuming the elements really are 100 ohms, you can match 4 of them using only 50 and 75 ohm coax. Off each element, a 1/2 wave 50 or 75 ohm section will transfer the 100 ohm element impedance to the other end. Each pair is T'd, giving 50 ohms at each T. From there, an odd 1/4 wave 75 ohm section will transform the 50 ohms to 100 ohms. These 2 100 ohm points are T'd, giving 50 ohms for the main feed. The above seems easier than using the hard-to-find 35 ohm coax but there must be other factors I haven't thought of that caused Decibel Products to use it. Roger Grady K9OPO Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Element Impedance Info Needed
You can match 4, 50 Ohm elements using 50 Ohm Cable. Parallel 2 elements with any length of 50 Ohm cable for 25 Ohms. Parallel the other two elements with the SAME any length for a second 25 Ohms. Use a 1/4 wave length of 50 Ohm cable to transform the first 25 Ohm pair to 100 Ohms. Use a second 1/4 Wave section to transform the second 25 Ohm pair to 100 Ohms. Parallel the 2, 100 Ohm sections and you are back to 50 Ohms. Ssb -Original Message- From: Roger Grady [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 12:21 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 Element Impedance Info Needed Assuming the elements really are 100 ohms, you can match 4 of them using only 50 and 75 ohm coax. Off each element, a 1/2 wave 50 or 75 ohm section will transfer the 100 ohm element impedance to the other end. Each pair is T'd, giving 50 ohms at each T. From there, an odd 1/4 wave 75 ohm section will transform the 50 ohms to 100 ohms. These 2 100 ohm points are T'd, giving 50 ohms for the main feed. The above seems easier than using the hard-to-find 35 ohm coax but there must be other factors I haven't thought of that caused Decibel Products to use it. Roger Grady K9OPO [Steve S. Bosshard] --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.700 / Virus Database: 457 - Release Date: 6/6/2004 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: DB224 question
The top half can be used as-is. I believe the impedance at the center connector is 50 ohms. The bottom half cannot, because the harness has the feeder for the top half as part of it. It cannot just be left hanging. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, johnmichaelwelton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can I split a ham cut DB224 in half and make two two bay antennas without redoing the phasing harness? tnx, John/N4SJW Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
