date:20090421

I had a Muslim friend who was a film journalist. He absolutely detested meat
and was an ardent vegetarian - no love for Biryani - would hide even on days
of Eid and festivals, not wanting to eat meat. I eat vegetarian food because
of health reasons and because of the fact that the meat manufactured poultry
industry is as good as eating hash. This is not to say that vegetables are
not laden with pesticides and GM seeds.
What you eat is both a cultural preference and a personal one.
Vegetarianism, the way it is spoken of in various discourses and practices,
is laden with overtones of morality. I find this problematic.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Vinayak Hegde vinay...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian
 sur...@hserus.net wrote:
  Forget single. Get the gujjus out of mumbai and you'd probably have a
 better Mumbai than most (no wonder a creep like Modi is in power in Gujarat
 - they have a CM they deserve)

 Assuming that you are not trolling, how is this statement of branding
 the whole community any different than branding the Muslim community
 as fomentors of terrorism. The Gujarathi community (like the Parsee
 community) has been an integral part of Mumbai for several years.
 Stripping them out of Mumbai would make it lose it's character (what
 no dandiya ?). Mumbai would not be the same without the
 entrepreneurial spirit of the Gujarathi.

  Mahatma Gandhi is a long forgotten concept there. Greed, hypocrisy, crude
 hatred etc etc - the entire state of Gujarat is a danger to modern India, as
 its people's minds have been indoctrinated to religious hatred.

 The same can be said of the Congress as well. MG is only remembered
 when naming roads in any city or putting up statues.

 -- Vinayak
 (Who loves Gujarathi food - undhiyu, thepla etc and realizes his
 friends are muslim only due to awesome meat-based cuisine they have -
 Find me one person who doesn't love biryani :)




-- 
Zainab Bawa
Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher

Between Places ...
http://zainab.freecrow.org

Re: [silk] Need some help

The other issue is also that I am made to feel apologetic about choosing to
eat meat. That makes me feel worse!

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote:

 It is problematic when vegetarianism is imposed on my by force, in both
 subtle and not-so-subtle ways. That I am viewed as lowly, meat eating
 person, simply because some cultures believe that it is more moral and
 superior to eat vegetarian food. There are personal choices, social choices,
 ecological choices for eating vegetables over meat. That is fine as long as
 it is not imposed on me. There is a fundamental issue of freedom at stake
 here.


 On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Pranesh Prakash 
 the.solips...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 15:06, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  What you eat is both a cultural preference and a personal one.
  Vegetarianism, the way it is spoken of in various discourses and
 practices,
  is laden with overtones of morality. I find this problematic.

 What is a healthy choice for one might be an ecological choice for
 another, and an ethical or moral choice for yet another.  All these
 individual/social choices are reflected in the discourses around
 vegetarianism.  (It's not as though ecological horrors are not
 highlighted to make room for the morality play that many construct out
 of vegetarianism.)  Why is that problematic?




 --
 Zainab Bawa
 Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher

 Between Places ...
 http://zainab.freecrow.org




-- 
Zainab Bawa
Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher

Between Places ...
http://zainab.freecrow.org

Re: [silk] Need some help


 I stayed for a year in Mumbai, and so did a lot of batchmates from MBA and
 we never had a problem find a place to stay even though I was a meat eater
 (even beef, though we never cooked), smoker, and regularly had people over
 drinking alcohol late into the night though we had to watch noise levels.


With a name like Kiran Karthikeyan, you are less likely to be asked whether
you are meat eating or not. When I would phone prospective landlords for
renting apartments in Jayanagar, I'd say I was Mrs. Chandrakiran instead
of taking my name and being slammed on the phone for being a meat eater
(which I am largely not).



 I think it is a fact of life that if the sub-community you are a part of is
 causing trouble, you will face social repression.


That is an extremely convenient way of putting things. Just because a
government and a media machinery say that attacks are caused by Muslims
makes me a prospective trouble maker too. There is no effort made to
investigate why after every attack, it is immediately said that some ---
toiba or --- jamaati group has admitted to the attacks. Could these not be
framing tactics?

And it is interesting to note that an educated person like yourself would
not take the trouble to interact and move beyond the stereotypes. You would
just say, ah, if the sub-community you are a part of is causing trouble,
you will face social repression. Now that definitely makes me want to keep
you out of my property.



And as a member of that
 community, you cannot just shy away from the responsibility of reforming
 your sub-community.


That stands just as much true for you too. Your community has been
wreaking as much trouble as my community has been. The question is, are
hindus really your community as much as Muslims are my community? Is there a
universal Hindu or a universal Muslim?



 Its either that or you change your name and forgo that
 particular identity.


You get even better with every sentence.



 Even I would be wary of lending my house out to Muslims (or any other
 communty which is identified as causing terrorism or generally disturbing
 the peace), unless I knew them or they were referred to me from somebody I
 know well. Face it, apart from the LTTE, IRA, all other major terrorist
 groups I know are Islamic in origin to my knowledge (fringe groups like
 Maoists, ULFA etc. being ignored). And I would also be vary of those in
 khaki shorts and carry around a long wooden stick.


This is the fundamental problem with today's times. And then we ask why is
there violence in society?

I have never felt like a Muslim in my life before as much as I am made to
feel now. My father's factory was burnt down in the riots of 1993 in Bombay
by a mob of rowdies, and even then, we never felt discriminated. But in
today's times, it seems that the base identity has become so critical in
understanding and experiencing the world, that I even feel frightened to be
part of this set-up. Yet, live I must!


-- 
Zainab Bawa
Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher

Between Places ...
http://zainab.freecrow.org

Re: [silk] Need some help

Not really so. In Bangalore, a Belgian friend of mine was told that she
would be allowed to take up the place only if she promised to stay
vegetarian. Another American friend in Mumbai, married and with kids, was
refused housing on grounds of vegetarianism.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 9:04 AM, . svaks...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 8:00 AM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote:
  I think this sort of discrimination happens with both single men and
  women. I agree, though, that a single woman probably has it tougher.
  The last time I tried looking for an apartment in Bangalore there were
  several people who refused to rent to me with a curt No bachelors, we
  have a teenage daughter

 The weird thing is they are willing to rent to single (fe)males who
 are foreigners.  Maybe its the green bucks or the fair skin is
 better attitude which reminds me of those matrimonial ads seeking
 fair brides.
 --
 .




-- 
Zainab Bawa
Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher

Between Places ...
http://zainab.freecrow.org

Re: [silk] Need some help

In Free Societies I think we believe there's large social benefit to
fairness and freedom. This includes access to enfranchisement in that
society. And a place to live, a place to work, etc. are elements of that.
Hence, in the US, there are Civil Rights laws that make certain
discrimination against people on the basis of race, religion, and gender
illegal -- all added in the 20th century after struggles.

I agree with personal choice; for example, I disagree with forcing a woman
to wear a headscarf and I disagree with attempts to force a woman not to be
able to wear a headscarf -- like some French schools tried to do. No one
forces them to rent out their places. But if they want to engage in what is
essentially commerce, for the greater societal welfare it needs to be
governed by fair rules as much as stock transactions should bar insider
information. For example, there is a list of information that a realtor
cannot provide a buyer in the US as its considered discriminatory:
http://law.freeadvice.com/government_law/civil_rights_law_ada/housing_protections.htm

That said, there's plenty hidden discrimination -- people who don't want to
rent to college kids fearing destructive parties. Condo communities that
don't allow children because it annoys the old folks. Fat people are often
discriminated against in the workplace. Sometimes it can be hard to prove.
As much as a huge liability the litigious nature of the US is, sometimes it
does end up scaring people into doing the ethical thing, simply to avoid
punishment.

But on a personal note, a vegetarian Hindu in India (mind you, that's what
my Indian side of the family has been for generations), who walks around
thinking themselves morally superior to a Swede who eats meat just makes me
laugh. In Sweden there is no such idea as a person being a dalit. There
are no slums. Everyone can go to school. It is illegal to discriminate
against people based on color (they even have dark skinned women on TV,
which I almost never see here in India!), religion, race, gender, etc. There
is no eve-teasing, no police torture (and the police enforce the law), no
dowrys, no honor killing, very little violence and crime, you can cross the
street without cars trying to run you down, etc. When India starts taking
care of the human beings here, I'll stop eating meat. Priorities, please!

Two final points -- the US has plenty of poverty, corruption, and violence
(not to mention the reported torture in Gitmo)-- which many Americans find
shameful (and I also laugh at Americans who think we're the best because
we've got claim to so many superlatives, rather than contemplating rating us
on the life of the average person or plight of those least fortunate). And
second, there are *many* progressive and humanist Indians I've met who want
to change things for the better here (and things have been getting better
here in so many ways) -- the population is diverse here and I'm only talking
about that segment that acts in these intolerant ways. The conflict between
the intolerati (some of whom wouldn't want to rent to an Indian because
they don't want that damned curry smell in their rental unit --
fortunately that's illegal for them to do -- and some of whom would want all
Muslims in the US rounded up and put in camps, which again, is completely
unconstitutional and would never be done -- especially after the shame of
the Japanese internment during WWII) and the rest of Americans is one of the
reasons for the major regime change in 2008.

Because, to quote Michael Caine's character from the Austin Powers movie,
There are two things I can't stand: people who are intolerant of other
people's cultures, and the Dutch! :-)

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote:

 It is problematic when vegetarianism is imposed on my by force, in both
 subtle and not-so-subtle ways. That I am viewed as lowly, meat eating
 person, simply because some cultures believe that it is more moral and
 superior to eat vegetarian food. There are personal choices, social
 choices,
 ecological choices for eating vegetables over meat. That is fine as long as
 it is not imposed on me. There is a fundamental issue of freedom at stake
 here.

Re: [silk] Need some help



 My post was only meant as an example of how the actions of a fringe group
 of
 a community will nevertheless influence the opinions of others about that
 community at large.


And that will also influence your judgements. Clap, clap, clap. Applause,
applause, applause.

-- 
Zainab Bawa
Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher

Between Places ...
http://zainab.freecrow.org

Re: [silk] Need some help

But no one's apologizing to me for the fact that steak is so delicious, damn
it! And don't even get me started on the wonder that is bacon...

And no one's apologizing to the person that may worship phallic objects who
is horrified at the treatment of carrots and cucumbers...  (although I
suppose that now impugns sausage)...

But possibly as a result of lesser demand, beef is cheaper here (by quite a
bit) than it is in the US. So the economist in me doesn't want to talk
anyone out of vegitarianism.

(I am trying to infuse some levity here, so please take it in that spirit. I
do acknowledge the ethical and ecological virtues of veg.)

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote:

 The other issue is also that I am made to feel apologetic about choosing to
 eat meat. That makes me feel worse!

Re: [silk] Need some help


 And that will also influence your judgements. Clap, clap, clap. Applause,
 applause, applause.


Fine..I'll take the bait...

And how else do you propose I avoid being harassed by the police when it
turns out that the person I rented out the flat to is a suspected terrorist.

I didn't say I would pass judgment that he/she is a terrorist just on the
basis of their Muslim name, just that I would be more wary. Since you've
culled out other parts of my post - I'll restate. I didn't say I wouldn't
rent to a Muslim, just not to somebody I didn't know at all or wasn't
referred to me by somebody I know.

Contrary to how you make it sound, I *don't* avoid Muslims like the plague.
But neither do I want to be the open-minded stereotype-rejecting
progressive-thinking idiot.

What you might not have guessed from my name is that I am from Kerala. The
place where my family stay in Cochin is a predominantly Muslim area, its
called Kakkanad which means land of Muslims. We have Muslim neighbors. Their
son, after attending a madrassa for a few months changed into a different
person and started beating up his parents and sisters (they themselves admit
that this was the reason, or at least it is after this that he changed). I
wonder what happened to the other kids who attended the same madrassa.

I remember a whole bunch of people being beaten black and blue in Palghat
(where I did my engineering) because they went for an ill-advised victory
march through a Muslim neighbourhood after India beat Pakistan in cricket!
:).

In my college, a few of my Muslim friends were no longer invited to the
meetings of some Islamic Students Association (not sure of the name) because
they used to drink. Incidentally, almost all of the Muslim students were
part of this so called association except for maybe a handful.
(Incidentally, Kerala has 15% reservation for Muslims in professional
colleges and there were about a thousand students in my college apart from
those who get in through the general quota, just to give you an idea of the
numbers).

So, you might be one of those who rejected that identity (like my friends),
and so you do have the right to be offended and which is why I apologized.

Incidentally, somebody I met at a random party and became friends with a few
weeks ago, admitted last weekend that he had contributed money to the LTTE.
This guy went to BITS and an IIM. So if a good education does not take this
out of you, why do you expect that it will remove all stereotypes (assuming
you weren't baiting me with that oft-used provocation too)?

Kiran

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread Mahesh Murthy

I was born to Hindu parents, am agnostic, but I follow the ancient Hindu
tradition of enjoying beef.

But not as much as I enjoy chicken though.

I find it somewhat immoral to be vegetarian - there must be something
unnatural and wrong if you skip a few obviously pre-ordained steps on the
food chain.

I have also long held that the lack of success of the Indian cricket team
till 5 years ago was the presence of curd-rice-eating apologetic medium
pacers like Javagal Srinath and Srinivas Prasad. What hope did we ever have
then? Deeply immoral, man.

With Zak, Munaf, Ishan and Praveen, we have something going now, I think.
Morality has been restored somewhat.

Burp.

:-)



On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote:

 The other issue is also that I am made to feel apologetic about choosing to
 eat meat. That makes me feel worse!

Re: [silk] Need some help

 LTTE is a very different form of struggle and organization and it cannot be
 compared  blanket with terrorism, and other kinds of violence. I have very
 close Sri Lankan friends, and educated, whose family members have been
 killed in LTTE blasts and violence, and who still support the LTTE. The
 instance you
 cited of the person giving money to LTTE is a very very different kind of a
 phenomenon and it has a different kind of political economy attached to it.


I realize it is different. And I wanted to understand further and so we
talked. At the end, it turned out his reasons (if you can call it that) was
something similar to identifying with the struggle.

So on the face of it, it looks like a well educated guy who got influenced
through whatever means and decided to support terrorism (whatever the
reasons, it still means the killing of innocent people, intentionally or
otherwise). I intend to probe further, and hopefully I'm proved wrong.

Kiran

Re: [silk] Need some help

What constitutes terrorism is highly subjective. If you think struggles
based on identity, freedom and not wanting to comply with a hegemonic notion
of nation are equal to terrorism, then your understanding of terrorism is
vastly different from mine. Violence is used when other spaces and avenues
for negotiation and understanding are blocked. There are enough Lankans and
Tamilians who contribute to the LTTE on various grounds and not all of them
can be bracketed as violence-loving people. It is a matter of political
consciousness and choice to support particular values that these individuals
believe in.
That said, this instance is not an appropriate one to use in our
conversations. It has a different history, connotations and political
economy to it and it does not compare with the kind of discrimination in
housing markets that occurs in Indian cities.
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 7:17 PM, Kiran K Karthikeyan 
kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:

  LTTE is a very different form of struggle and organization and it cannot
 be
  compared  blanket with terrorism, and other kinds of violence. I have
 very
  close Sri Lankan friends, and educated, whose family members have been
  killed in LTTE blasts and violence, and who still support the LTTE. The
  instance you
  cited of the person giving money to LTTE is a very very different kind of
 a
  phenomenon and it has a different kind of political economy attached to
 it.


 I realize it is different. And I wanted to understand further and so we
 talked. At the end, it turned out his reasons (if you can call it that) was
 something similar to identifying with the struggle.

 So on the face of it, it looks like a well educated guy who got influenced
 through whatever means and decided to support terrorism (whatever the
 reasons, it still means the killing of innocent people, intentionally or
 otherwise). I intend to probe further, and hopefully I'm proved wrong.

 Kiran




-- 
Zainab Bawa
Ph.D. Student and Independent Researcher

Between Places ...
http://zainab.freecrow.org

Re: [silk] Need some help

 What constitutes terrorism is highly subjective. If you think struggles
 based on identity, freedom and not wanting to comply with a hegemonic
 notion
 of nation are equal to terrorism, then your understanding of terrorism is
 vastly different from mine. Violence is used when other spaces and avenues
 for negotiation and understanding are blocked. There are enough Lankans and
 Tamilians who contribute to the LTTE on various grounds and not all of them
 can be bracketed as violence-loving people. It is a matter of political
 consciousness and choice to support particular values that these
 individuals
 believe in.
 That said, this instance is not an appropriate one to use in our
 conversations. It has a different history, connotations and political
 economy to it and it does not compare with the kind of discrimination in
 housing markets that occurs in Indian cities.


Agreed. I've not made up my mind. Maybe there are other reasons, I only
stated it since from the discussion I had with him it sounded very flimsy.

Kiran

[silk] Free, Renewable Energy Available Everywhere But the U.S.

2009-04-21 Thread Udhay Shankar N

This sounds a little too good to be true. Anybody know more?

Udhay

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/21/722578/-Free,-Renewable-Energy-Available-Everywhere-But-the-U.S.

Free, Renewable Energy Available Everywhere But the U.S.
by Dry Observer

Tue Apr 21, 2009 at 12:22:21 AM PDT

Three days ago, an invention (patent pending) went into public domain
everywhere in the world except the United States -- a design for a
wind-powered energy system that can tap at least 60 times as much energy
as the United States Renewable Energy Laboratories states is available
in a square meter of wind. The system does this not by some magical
process (it is extremely mundane) but apparently by tapping into very
large volumes of moving air, as seen in the sails of large sailing
ships. With it, you should be able to easily reach single-digits
megawatt/hours of power in windspeeds as low as 10
statute-miles-per-hour, or drive a pump with thousands of horsepower of
kinetic energy in those same winds.

And, in case it needs to be repeated, anyone outside of the U.S. can
use this design (patent pending in America), to the best of my
knowledge, free of charge. And should prove very, very cheap to
assemble. (My thanks go out to Dr. Win Wenger, whose original
public-domain invention was the seed that inspired this design.)

You can conceivably get away with building this system with little
more than copper, sailcloth and steel...

SNIP, much much more at the URL
--
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] Oracle Agrees to Acquire Sun

2009-04-21 Thread Jim Grisanzio


Jai Iyer wrote:

Hmmm. I'd like Solaris to be an open-source, big-iron OS. The concept
of Solaris on the desktop has always disturbed me, it's like err the
Pope featuring in Playboy.
  


The OpenSolaris features will migrate to the enterprise (Solaris is 
already there, of course), but the OpenSolaris desktop is coming along 
quite nicely, actually. It hasn`t even been a year. More time needed.


But this desktop question has always been interesting. The desktop was 
never the exclusive goal for Sun, but there is a distribution of 
OpenSolaris that is focused exclusively on the desktop and general users 
-- in other words, Windows users. It`s called Jaris. It`s in Japan and 
it`s independent from Sun. It`s pretty slick. And it`s getting huge 
attention here in Tokyo for a new distro. Should be an interesting 
experiment for a distro to take the OpenSolaris kernel directly to 
Windows uses in a well contained market using positioning Sun would be 
rather unfamiliar with. Don`t be surprised if that Pope turns out to be 
Japanese. Things can get pretty sexy in Tokyo, you know ...


:)

Jim

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Monday 20 Apr 2009 8:08:06 am Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
 Forget single. Get the gujjus out of mumbai and you'd probably have a
 better Mumbai than most (no wonder a creep like Modi is in power in Gujarat
 - they have a CM they deserve)

Ah yes leave Mumbai to the real heroes - Bal Thickray and his clan.

shiv

Re: [silk] Need some help


 I didn't say I would pass judgment that he/she is a terrorist just on the
 basis of their Muslim name, just that I would be more wary. Since you've
 culled out other parts of my post - I'll restate. I didn't say I wouldn't
 rent to a Muslim, just not to somebody I didn't know at all or wasn't
 referred to me by somebody I know.

 Contrary to how you make it sound, I *don't* avoid Muslims like the plague.
 But neither do I want to be the open-minded stereotype-rejecting
 progressive-thinking idiot.


I find the best way to think of humans are a bunch of pretty much identical
scared little hairless monkeys who mostly can't tell the difference between
post-facto rationalized instinct and deliberate thought. We'll make great
uranium miners for our oppressive space-alien overlords who won't care who's
from what religion, family, color, or whatever -- no matter how much we
protest that we're different and special from the others. I look forward to
it. :-)

That said, in 988 AD if you saw a bunch of big blonde guys in a long boat,
you might wanna go the other way. In 1942 Europe, if you saw a swastika
flag, you shouldn't assume the place is a Yoga institute (The Yoga Institute
in Santacruz, Mumbai is full of swastikas). Were all Germans Nazis? The
party membership was in the single digit percentages at its height. During
the crusades, I'd have rather taken my chances with Saladadin than Richard
the Lionhearted (the Europeans at that time were notoriously savage) -- and
if I was looking for science and culture, you'd want to head to Baghdad not
Paris. Some say white people have never been slaves, but I assure you that
Germanians, Gauls, and Brittanians captured by Caesar's western campaign in
the 1st century BC came to Rome in chains and were sold.

And in the early 21st Century, chances are that a terrorist is going to be a
young Islamic male more than a middle aged Belgian woman. That's just the
historical timing at the moment. And a blonde male in a long boat will
elicit less fear. In fact the chance that the terrorist is going to be a
young male, or violence will come from one, is obviously more likely. Over
90% of the US prison population is male, and something like 50% are violent
offenders.

Before in the US the fear was anti-federal militia groups such as the
affinity of Tim McVey, a white christian who perpetrated the largest act of
terrorism on US soil (Oklahoma Federal Building, some 190 deaths including
children). The FBI had been raiding groups like that accumulating weapons.
That was part of McVey's espoused justification for his actions.

I never voted for Bush. I've been apologetic for the impression he's given
the world of Americans for 8 years. But I'm stuck with that stereotype. If I
walk into a store dressed up all gangsta I will have my picture ID checked
before I can use my credit card. If I'm wearing a nice suit, I won't be
checked.

However, if a US police officer pulls over a black person just for driving
in an neighborhood that has a low African-American population, that officer
is violating the civil rights of the person and is opened up to dismissal
and charges.

US officials and airport security are not supposed to profile. But as a
young man of swarthy description, I fit a profile. If they want to search
me, I don't mind. I've nothing to hide. And if there's anyone else who looks
like me getting on that plane, please, check them. It sucks that people who
happen to look somewhat like me were behind 9/11, but there's not much I can
do about it, much like a peaceful tall Blonde guy in 988AD might be killed
for being mistaken as a Viking.

However, the idea that Muslims should somehow be cleaning their own house
and taking care of these guys is stupid. I had no power to stop what was
going on in Gitmo. Hypothetically, had I gone down there and knocked on the
door with a letter telling them to stop, I'd have been thrown in the
slammer. A palenstinian living by some guys shooting off rockets at Israel
is going to get a bullet in the head or a rifle butt in the face if he goes
over there and tells them to stop. I don't take responsibility for what any
people who meet any of my demographic groups does. I'm a culture of one -- I
didn't ask to be born this way -- and I will shamelessly borrow and use the
best ideas of any and all groups of humans. I will not let retarded
supersticious idiots from hundreds of years ago force my behavior (although
if they had some good ideas, I'm game -- pick and choose).

So my point:
(1) I can understand someone being more worried that a young muslim man
might be a security risk than other folks.
(2) I still think it should be illegal to use such criteria to make
decisions about commerce, including renting.
(3) Treating women like second class citizens and beating up your family is
never ok -- I don't care who or what says otherwise -- it's wrong. (Unless,
of course a woman chooses to want to be treated that way, or if a family
member asks to be beat up,

Re: [silk] Need some help

During the crusades, I'd have rather taken my chances with Saladadin than
Richard the Lionhearted (the Europeans at that time were notoriously savage)
-- and if I was looking for science and culture, you'd want to head to
Baghdad not Paris.


I meant to spell Salahadin not Saladadin which sounds more like a witty
pun for a Middle Eastern style Salad on some chain restaurant's menu (ironic
slip given the vegitarian discussion earlier)

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread sur...@hserus.net

I've eaten camel in riyadh and kangaroo in perth. i just dont order meat when 
others at the table are vegetarian

-- 
srs/nokia e71

-original message-
Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help
From: . svaks...@gmail.com
Date: 21-04-2009 20:59

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote:
 Not really so. In Bangalore, a Belgian friend of mine was told that she
 would be allowed to take up the place only if she promised to stay
 vegetarian. Another American friend in Mumbai, married and with kids, was
 refused housing on grounds of vegetarianism.

Assuming that your Belgian and American friends are not Muslim, the
claim that its a plot to keep out the whole Muslim community does not
stand. It seems like an individual's bias about who should live in his
private property.  Should he be hauled to jail for that? I dont think
so. He is just yet another narrow-minded person I'd would rather avoid
even if the property was rent-free.  Its also a misnomer that all
Hindus are vegetarian which is more of individual choice or a
family's choice in some cases, but definitely not a religious one.
Religion per se is not evil, rather its the people who use (any)
religion to control and grab power or dictate terms to others that are
the root of the problem.  What happened to your friends (and you) are
an individual's bias and by stretching that line of logic I can think
of gazillion personal instances when I have been discriminated against
on the basis of my gender, age, nationality, skin color, religion,
  I happen to know a Sikh family who are staunch vegetarians and
would not wish to mingle or marry a person different from them.  I
also know Jains who eat meat outside the house but toe the line and
would not dare risk offending the better half (or his parents) by even
mentioning chicken tikka or kebab at home.

And yet, stretching that line of reasoning and argument is a scary
double-edged sword, as in, any women could easily take offence at any
matrimonial sites because they encourage Indian men to advertise for a
bride thus : Male, 31 yrs, 5'10 very fair (brown-skin is so not
metro-sexual when you have skin-whitening products for men modeled by
the Badshah of Bollywood himself), handsome, highly educated
Phd/Engineer/Doctor/add education, add religion (category, subcaste no
bar.  Wow, a broad-minded bloke !) seeks a mutually compatible
accomplished (read, willing to be my lifelong unpaid housemaid who
will provide sex-at-my-command) educated/working (another unsaid
euphemism for dowry in monthly installments) bride.  The opposite is
also true but they dont sound very logical to me.  Would it be
illogical and unfair to label every Indian male who advertises his
personal preferences as a racist and chauvinistic pig or claim that
ALL men are rapists because the proportion of men who rape is more
than the opposite ; which does seem like stretching logic a wee bit
too much for half the world's population being discriminated against,
if numbers count.

Does'nt discrimination start the moment we divide, classify and
sub-classify things, people, animals, [add your poison of choice],
along various criteria?  Being different is a form of discrimination
too but the last I heard, the politically correct name was
diversity. In a biological sense, each of us is uniquely different,
if DNA matters.

-- 
.

Re: [silk] Need some help

Oh, and I forgot one important point -- that playing up this Muslim Threat
has been politically expedient for a number of politicians around the world
(and definitely in the US). There's a different between the truth and the
truthiness that gets demagogues what they want.

And as far as whipping some young men up (especially when they're cut off
from women due to cultural prohibitions) into a passionate violent movement,
that's been going on forever, all over the world, and the leaders (almost
always older men) get their own demagoguery benefits, both psychological,
power, and fiduciary.

And getting a population angry at an outside enemy is a fantastic way to
distract them from domestic problems. And I don't think some of the guys in
the metal detector or 9mm automatic ammunition businesses (or Halliburton)
mind it too much either. Not to at all say they incite it, but I don't know
how strong their motivation to see it go away would be.

If there's no political motivation, then they just become gangs or skinheads
or whatever. I think there's too much focus on trying to uncover the
rationale rather than trying to measure the testosterone level. A bull
elephant during their heat with high testosterone levels is predisposed to
attack and dangerous to be around.

Re: [silk] Free, Renewable Energy Available Everywhere But the U.S.

2009-04-21 Thread Dave Long


Just off the cuff, this sounds much too good to be true:


With it, you should be able to easily reach single-digits
megawatt/hours of power in windspeeds as low as 10
statute-miles-per-hour, or drive a pump with thousands of  
horsepower of

kinetic energy in those same winds.


Power is cubic in wind speed; low wind speeds could yield plenty of  
torque, but that's why they're suitable for applications such as  
water pumping, not power generation.


-Dave

(same goes for hydro: we use kilometer drops in the alps for power  
arbitrage.  low head power generation is theoretically interesting,  
but if one has the vertical and the metallurgy it's much easier to  
just use them than to needlessly fight the exponents)

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Vinayak Hegde vinay...@gmail.com wrote:

 On a slightly different tangent
 What I find very interesting is the differentiation in discrimination
 of different kinds in the media. For example, I see the reservation
 policies followed by the current congress government/short-lived VP
 Singh (though BJP / third front aren't any better - they are probably
 worse) as damaging to society as much as the
 Godhra/Kandamal/Anti-sikh/Anti-UP riots in
 Gujarat/Orissa/Delhi/Mumbai. The only difference seems that in one
 case the effect of discrimination are more longer term and less
 visible (gory sequences of beating up people / burning up shops makes
 more compelling viewing than students missing better opportunities for
 better education). Also one is mostly class-based / caste based rather
 than religion-based.

Isnt the media (probably the world-over) only concerned about the
upswing in ratings and advertising revenues than digging out the
truth, a tedious job at best.  A student not realizing his dream of
being a doctor because a reservation category student with lesser
marks than him made the grade is just not juicy enough to activate
outpourings of sympathy.

-- 
.

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:02 PM, sur...@hserus.net sur...@hserus.net wrote:
 I've eaten camel in riyadh and kangaroo in perth. i just dont order meat when 
 others at the table are vegetarian

An appropriate reply would have been sent your way if you took the
trouble to snip out the irrelevant parts of the conversation instead
of top-posted vague statements which seem like fish bait ;)
-- 
.

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:02 PM, sur...@hserus.net sur...@hserus.netwrote:

 I've eaten camel in riyadh and kangaroo in perth. i just dont order meat
 when others at the table are vegetarian


I do cook special stuff just for them when I invite them over. Even when I
have a barbecue, in California you're going to have vegetarians coming,
religious, ethical, and/or health motivated.

And I use separate cooking utensils and pans and all that jazz. I know from
my own family how picky vegetarians want things done. It might be a little
annoying, but I respect it.

And I never expect them to cook meat for me. I've no problem eating veg.

Re: [silk] Need some help

 However, the idea that Muslims should somehow be cleaning their own house
 and taking care of these guys is stupid.


Hmm...maybe..but the pressure on some of them who do think differently to
conform is quite great. I felt that from one of the friends I mentioned in
my post.

Somewhere during the third year, one of them lost his mother. There was so
much guilt drilled into him that after he came back a few weeks later, he
completely quit drinking and smoking. Started doing namaz religiosly and
going to the prayer every Friday (we usually were sleeping after a heavy
lunch or used the long lunch break to take the rest of the day off and the
weekend started early). And he avoided hanging out with us, and moved with
the other Muslims more.

I realize these are isolated incidents, and exceptions aren't the rule, but
then exceptions are a clue. The alternative to some of the more progressive
Muslims leading the change is that we wait till the free market economy and
capitalism hits them hard enough that they are more concerned with making
money and living the good life that religion takes a back seat in their
overall psyche (simplistic, but there has to be some motivators?).

That madrassa reformed kid I mentioned was a normal, school going kid. The
family itself was not very well off, but they were doing OK. And they were
very nice people. Their daughters (or at least one of them) were doing
professional degrees in engineering (which are the most competitive to get
admissions to) which is quite rare in Kerala Muslims in similar economic
strata.

So, basically I don't get it. I don't think we can compare them to the
Vikings. And I don't think this is just history repeating itself. And
forcing change (through military or other means) from the outside might only
result in making matters worse (as evidenced in recent efforts) and maybe if
nurtured from within, it might have better results?

Kiran

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote:

 veg or non-veg fish bait? :-)

...a veggie fish bait? that reminds me of my Bong friends who still
insist that fish is a vegetarian dish. Serves as a nice conversation
starter over lunch/dinner.

-- 
.

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread Pranesh Prakash

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 21:20, Kiran K Karthikeyan
kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote:
 Somewhere during the third year, one of them lost his mother. There was so
 much guilt drilled into him that after he came back a few weeks later, he
 completely quit drinking and smoking. Started doing namaz religiosly and
 going to the prayer every Friday (we usually were sleeping after a heavy
 lunch or used the long lunch break to take the rest of the day off and the
 weekend started early). And he avoided hanging out with us, and moved with
 the other Muslims more.

 I realize these are isolated incidents, and exceptions aren't the rule, but
 then exceptions are a clue. The alternative to some of the more progressive
 Muslims leading the change is that we wait till the free market economy and
 capitalism hits them hard enough that they are more concerned with making
 money and living the good life that religion takes a back seat in their
 overall psyche (simplistic, but there has to be some motivators?).

I'm not sure, but your suggestion seems to be that quit[ting]
drinking and smoking, doing namaz religiously, and going to a
temple every Friday is anti-progressive.  Why?  He avoided hanging
out with us seems to have more of a chance of being deemed
un-progressive, but then I'd have to get to know you and your buddies
better to take a call on that.

And when this day of capitalistic rule does come upon earth (is it a
bit like the biblical apocalypse? or a bit more like ragnarok with the
leftie gods in death throes?)  what happens to all those
liberals/progressives that believe living the good life isn't all
that life is about?  And what about those that want life with tinges
of the bad, the spiritual, and other such devilish things?

Re: [silk] Need some help

--- On Tue, 21/4/09, . svaks...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: . svaks...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Tuesday, 21 April, 2009, 9:31 PM
 On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Ravi
 Bellur rav...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  veg or non-veg fish bait? :-)

 ...a veggie fish bait? that reminds me of my Bong friends
 who still
 insist that fish is a vegetarian dish. Serves as a nice
 conversation
 starter over lunch/dinner.

 -- 
 .

??

OF COURSE EET EES FEESH. 

Jolo-phool, capisce?

Ignorant A-bangali, out to DESTROY Bangla culture!

  Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to 
http://in.movies.yahoo.com/

Re: [silk] Need some help


 So, basically I don't get it. I don't think we can compare them to the
 Vikings. And I don't think this is just history repeating itself. And
 forcing change (through military or other means) from the outside might
 only
 result in making matters worse (as evidenced in recent efforts) and maybe
 if
 nurtured from within, it might have better results?

 Kiran


Yeah, it was somewhat flawed of an example. But lets say that radical
christians were able to get big funding and take over the US. It would be
pretty scary as well. And maybe they'd  be supporting christian martyrs
worldwide to protect christandom. If you watch the documentary Jesus Camp,
it's scary. Little kids chanting about how they were christian soldiers and
how they were in a religious war.

Thankfully we have government agencies that keep their eyes on those guys,
and most Americans, like most people in the world, I think, are moderate and
just wanna live and let live (except Paul McCartney when he was writing that
song for the James Bond movie...)

A lot of religions have that part where they are the chosen people and
everyone else is infidel shit. I think those who seize on that find it much
easier to do whatever they want to outsiders.

But ultimately, if it comes to crossing the street to avoid a perceived
risky group of people, or showing one is above such thing -- in the
individual case, I think we're programmed to err on the side of safety. It's
much easier to be an idealist (I find) in a safe environment. :-)

Re: [silk] Need some help

--- On Tue, 21/4/09, Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in wrote:

 From: Bonobashi bonoba...@yahoo.co.in
 Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Tuesday, 21 April, 2009, 9:41 PM

 --- On Tue, 21/4/09, . svaks...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  From: . svaks...@gmail.com
  Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help
  To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
  Date: Tuesday, 21 April, 2009, 9:31 PM
  On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Ravi
  Bellur rav...@gmail.com
  wrote:

   veg or non-veg fish bait? :-)

  ...a veggie fish bait? that reminds me of my Bong
 friends
  who still
  insist that fish is a vegetarian dish. Serves as a
 nice
  conversation
  starter over lunch/dinner.

  -- 
  .

 ??

 OF COURSE EET EES FEESH. 

 Jolo-phool, capisce?

 Ignorant A-bangali, out to DESTROY Bangla culture!

The subject got mis-typed: it should have been

Re: [silk] Need lots of help

And the text should have started:

OF COURSE EET EES PHLAWAR.

The rest of it, ethnic slurs included, stays the same.

  Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to 
http://in.movies.yahoo.com/

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:59 PM, . svaks...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Not really so. In Bangalore, a Belgian friend of mine was told that she
  would be allowed to take up the place only if she promised to stay
  vegetarian. Another American friend in Mumbai, married and with kids, was
  refused housing on grounds of vegetarianism.

 Assuming that your Belgian and American friends are not Muslim, the
 claim that its a plot to keep out the whole Muslim community does not
 stand. It seems like an individual's bias about who should live in his
 private property.  Should he be hauled to jail for that? I dont think
 so. He is just yet another narrow-minded person I'd would rather avoid
 even if the property was rent-free.  Its also a misnomer that all
 Hindus are vegetarian which is more of individual choice or a
 family's choice in some cases, but definitely not a religious one.
 Religion per se is not evil, rather its the people who use (any)
 religion to control and grab power or dictate terms to others that are
 the root of the problem.  What happened to your friends (and you) are
 an individual's bias and by stretching that line of logic I can think
 of gazillion personal instances when I have been discriminated against
 on the basis of my gender, age, nationality, skin color, religion,
   I happen to know a Sikh family who are staunch vegetarians and
 would not wish to mingle or marry a person different from them.  I
 also know Jains who eat meat outside the house but toe the line and
 would not dare risk offending the better half (or his parents) by even
 mentioning chicken tikka or kebab at home.

 And yet, stretching that line of reasoning and argument is a scary
 double-edged sword, as in, any women could easily take offence at any
 matrimonial sites because they encourage Indian men to advertise for a
 bride thus : Male, 31 yrs, 5'10 very fair (brown-skin is so not
 metro-sexual when you have skin-whitening products for men modeled by
 the Badshah of Bollywood himself), handsome, highly educated
 Phd/Engineer/Doctor/add education, add religion (category, subcaste no
 bar.  Wow, a broad-minded bloke !) seeks a mutually compatible
 accomplished (read, willing to be my lifelong unpaid housemaid who
 will provide sex-at-my-command) educated/working (another unsaid
 euphemism for dowry in monthly installments) bride.  The opposite is
 also true but they dont sound very logical to me.  Would it be
 illogical and unfair to label every Indian male who advertises his
 personal preferences as a racist and chauvinistic pig or claim that
 ALL men are rapists because the proportion of men who rape is more
 than the opposite ; which does seem like stretching logic a wee bit
 too much for half the world's population being discriminated against,
 if numbers count.

 Does'nt discrimination start the moment we divide, classify and
 sub-classify things, people, animals, [add your poison of choice],
 along various criteria?  Being different is a form of discrimination
 too but the last I heard, the politically correct name was
 diversity. In a biological sense, each of us is uniquely different,
 if DNA matters.

 --
 .


Dear .
Discrimination in the rental housing market is not limited to religion. It
extends to caste, sex, nationality (and is there anything else under the
sun?). When I was hunting for a house, in two instances I was openly told
that Muslims will not be entertained in particular households. In one case,
a broker asked me if it was okay that the landlord was Muslim!?!?!?

My friends in my Ph.D. center have faced discrimination on the basis of
caste. In one case, the landlord openly asked my peer what caste he was.
When my peer said he was not brahmin, the landlord said, but you
non-Brahmins have the urge to eat non-veg. How will you control it? Now,
this was seriously offensive.

In a city like Bombay, there is very clearly discrimination based on
religion - Muslims not allowed. In Delhi too, Muslims are not rented out
properties because of the terrorism issue - any Muslim is a threat lest he
or she turn out to be a gun sporting terrorist at the end of the day. In
Bangalore, the discrimination operates on the basis of caste and Christian
and Muslim sounding names are a no-no in South Bangalore (I know only of
South Bangalore). I have come to realize that people are very afraid of what
they see as overstepping traditions and therefore, non-vegetarians are not
allowed on ancestral properties. This applies to people of whatever religion
they are from. In some cases, I was told you can eat non-veg outside, but
cannot cook inside the home. There is a certain belief about sanctity of
tradition and property which operates in most of the cases.

Sure, we need to respect people's sentiments of vegetarianism. My father
refuses to eat non-veg in the aircraft if the passenger seated next to him
is ordering a vegetarian meal. But I am afraid

Re: [silk] Free, Renewable Energy Available Everywhere But the U.S.

2009-04-21 Thread Thaths

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Dave Long dave.l...@bluewin.ch wrote:
 (same goes for hydro: we use kilometer drops in the alps for power
 arbitrage.  low head power generation is theoretically interesting, but if
 one has the vertical and the metallurgy it's much easier to just use them
 than to needlessly fight the exponents)

I was reading the latest issue of National Geographic and came across
a mention of a table-top hydro electric generator that is about
3-gallon in size (in the Shangri La article). What is the current
state of backyard hydro electric generators? Are they well packaged
and as easy to use as a two-stroke diesel generator?

S.
-- 
   You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel. -- Homer J. Simpson

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread Dave Long

And how else do you propose I avoid being harassed by the police  
when it
turns out that the person I rented out the flat to is a suspected  
terrorist.


It looks like there are some 140 million muslims in india (of which a  
fair number in AP?).  Unless there are also close to a million  
suspected terrorists who are considered landlord-harassment-worthy by  
the police, I'd say there are far more pressing worries to consider,  
such as how to avoid the hassle when it turns out that the person you  
rented out the flat to isn't timely with the rent.


-Dave

We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom  
that is in it and stop there lest we be like the cat that sits down  
on a hot stove lid. She will never sit down on a hot stove lid again  
and that is well but also she will never sit down on a cold one  
anymore.

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.comwrote:

  What makes you believe that Muslims
 shy away from capitalism?


True, and there's also that matter of the bazzillions we pay to Muslim
businessmen for oil (granted not in India, but remember that 17 of the 19
terrorists to whom 9/11 is attributed were Saudi Arabian). The west in
particular has made them some of the richest people in the world.

And to be honest, the west (and the US) has meddled extensively in that
region, mostly to dire results (not to mention counter to the values of
democracy and freedom that we ought to be prosetylizing in the world).

But that's just because they had the gall to be sitting on top of OUR oil!
(to be said in a Texan accent to best suitably mock those in American
businessmen who thought that way... who probably also ate a lot of steak,
but I doubt that was the root cause of their moral flexibility).

Ask Salvador Allende what happens when you try to get in the way of our
bauxite! I don't know if George Washinton, Thomas Jefferson, or Ben Franklin
would have approved.

Re: [silk] Need some help

--- On Tue, 21/4/09, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Tuesday, 21 April, 2009, 10:43 PM
 On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:17 PM,
 Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.comwrote:

   What makes you believe that Muslims
  shy away from capitalism?

 True, and there's also that matter of the bazzillions we
 pay to Muslim
 businessmen for oil (granted not in India, but remember
 that 17 of the 19
 terrorists to whom 9/11 is attributed were Saudi Arabian).
 The west in
 particular has made them some of the richest people in the
 world.

 And to be honest, the west (and the US) has meddled
 extensively in that
 region, mostly to dire results (not to mention counter to
 the values of
 democracy and freedom that we ought to be prosetylizing in
 the world).

 But that's just because they had the gall to be sitting on
 top of OUR oil!
 (to be said in a Texan accent to best suitably mock those
 in American
 businessmen who thought that way... who probably also ate a
 lot of steak,
 but I doubt that was the root cause of their moral
 flexibility).

 Ask Salvador Allende what happens when you try to get in
 the way of our
 bauxite! I don't know if George Washinton, Thomas
 Jefferson, or Ben Franklin
 would have approved.

Exactly what is this crap supposed to mean? Where are we going with this one?

  Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! 
Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/

Re: [silk] Need some help

That was supposed to go to the thread that's numbering about 190+ entries.
dunno why it ended up here.

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote:


 Dear .
 Discrimination in the rental housing market is not limited to religion. It
 extends to caste, sex, nationality (and is there anything else under the
 sun?).

Yes, Gender.  Would it be wrong to say its the largest group being
discriminated against in many different situations? To (re)cite an
earlier experience, the landlord never asked me the woman's religion
or age (both of which I didnt know) but her singular status and living
alone upset him enough to claim that single women are a big problem
that no landlord wants.  Now that does get my goat (pun (un)intended)
as I never understood what its supposed to imply or mean or was I
reading too much into it. But he was not the first to say that so when
2 brokers echoed his s(ub)lim(e)y thoughts I realized how dangerous
single women are, never mind that men speaking thus have daughters.
The irony is befuddling!!

In retrospect, I'd have been more worried knowing that a woman I
referred had to interact with such creepiness. That said, people still
have the right to being bigots and narrow-minded when it comes to
personal spaces or personal life choices. I too have a choice to
ignore and avoid them or reduce my interactions to the minimum if
necessary.  Yeah, discrimination against women is not limited to
Bangalore or India and probably exists everywhere in different forms.
Heck, which woman is yet to feel safe while living (or traveling)
alone in India after dark? Or escape spousal physical abuse in
middle-class homes? or escape from incest, rape or sexual harassment?
Or the fact that our courts still tolerate and allow an accused to use
sexist language and red herrings in anticipatory bail applications[0].

[0]  http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1249292

I could go on but this discussion on discrimination and incidents like
the Rama Sene made me realize that gender (as a kid/teen, i'd never
have believed it and i may be completely wrong here) is still the
largest demographic group being discriminated against, not changed
much over the centuries (in form perhaps). I dont see the media-hype
around gender-related crimes (except the sensational ones) nor any
proper studies undertaken across all demographics of Indian society.
Did you really think an educated middle-class
engineer/doctor/businessman cannot indulge in spousal abuse? Does
class, caste or education have a role to play in gender abuse. I dont
know. But our general populace does not care enough to bring about a
change or a proper support system for the largest demographic you can
find, except perhaps in sensational cases which get media attention
and gather public support. Sadly most crimes and the female victims
slip between the cracks, go un-noticed, or become mere statistics.


 And also, I am not an advocate of regulations to curb discrimination. As
 has been pointed out in some of the postings, biases and prejudices are very
 deep seated. Applying regulations can be counter-productive in the sense of
 increasing the antagonism. Neither do I believe that the market will solve
 the problem. Some pretty radical dislocations are required i.e. traditions
 and paradigms that challenge the hegemonic beliefs of religion, identity and
 property.

I dont know how the radical change will come about but harking back
into time reminds me that discrimination is certainly not a new
phenomenon when it comes to property. Erstwhile Mughal rulers used to
collect the jazia tax from non-muslims while Hindu kings have fought
violent battles over kingdoms and women. What is it about
property/kingdoms are fiercely personal (unlike maybe a job?) and does
evoke the beast (arent they territorial too) within humans??

-- 
.

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread Aadisht Khanna

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.comwrote:

  And also, I am not an advocate of regulations to curb discrimination. As
 has been pointed out in some of the postings, biases and prejudices are
 very
 deep seated. Applying regulations can be counter-productive in the sense of
 increasing the antagonism. Neither do I believe that the market will solve
 the problem. Some pretty radical dislocations are required i.e. traditions
 and paradigms that challenge the hegemonic beliefs of religion, identity
 and
 property.


Zainab,

I'd be interested to know what you think the source of these dislocations is
going to be. I can think of religious reform movements like Arya Samaj or
Brahmo Samaj (both of which have lost their iconoclasm by now), and new
public institutions. Are you thinking of the same things or something
completely different?

-- 
Aadisht Khanna
Address for mailing lists: aadisht.gro...@gmail.com
Personal address: aadi...@aadisht.net

[silk] India launches a few satellites

2009-04-21 Thread Srini RamaKrishnan

There's the usual spy satellite, but what caught my interest was this -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8007653.stm
[...]
The rocket also contained the Anusat educational satellite, which will
help transfer confidential material such as examination questions as
well as track urban planning developments and the effects of drought.
[...]

Ummm... a satellite to transfer examination questions? WTF? Have they
never heard of the internet or encryption?

Cheeni

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread Venkat Mangudi

   Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote:

LTTE is a very different form of struggle and organization and it cannot be


I realize it is different. And I wanted to understand further and so we
talked. At the end, it turned out his reasons (if you can call it that) was
something similar to identifying with the struggle.


   Doesn't every radical organization and terrorist outfit have a cause?
   They always justify their actions. Doing that (justifying) does not
   vindicate them or absolve them of the crimes they commit. Heck, Indian
   freedom fighters were called terrorists by the Brits. In the end, it's
   all a matter of perspective. Just like who the landlord wants to rent
   his property out to. But then, I digress.

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread Venkat Mangudi

   . wrote:

On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:21 PM, Ravi Bellur [1]rav...@gmail.com wrote:

veg or non-veg fish bait? :-)

...a veggie fish bait? that reminds me of my Bong friends who still

   Reminds me of this restaurant in Teaneck, NJ called Veggie Heaven. None
   of my friends believed that the Generals Tso's chicken they were having
   was not really chicken.

References

   1. mailto:rav...@gmail.com

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tuesday 21 Apr 2009 9:41:22 pm Bonobashi wrote:


 Ignorant A-bangali, out to DESTROY Bangla culture!

In other words there are only two types of human you can phind in this world

A bangali and a-bangali

shiv

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tuesday 21 Apr 2009 9:55:42 pm . wrote:

 that Bengali women are more beautiful when they are angry, true.


Here's a bong woman you would not want to see angry..

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=CAP/2009/04/18/12/Img/Pc0121600.jpg

shiv

Re: [silk] India launches a few satellites

On Wednesday 22 Apr 2009 1:46:23 am Srini RamaKrishnan wrote:
 Ummm... a satellite to transfer examination questions? WTF? Have they
 never heard of the internet or encryption?

Not in unwired villages - whih is what this thing is really aimed at. They 
will need a satellite dish though.

shiv

Re: [silk] Need some help

2009-04-21 Thread Udhay Shankar N

Zainab Bawa wrote, [on 4/21/2009 10:17 PM]:

 Udhay, can I send an attachment to people on this list? There is a brilliant
 article on the historical basis of terrorism and responses to terrorism. It
 is very insightful and written beautifully.

The list is set to strip out attachments. I suggest just sending a URL
to the list. Kiran (er, the one you're married to) can help with
uploading it to a server somewhere. I can help too, let me know.

Udhay
-- 
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Tuesday 21 Apr 2009 10:11:30 pm Zainab Bawa wrote:
  Some pretty radical dislocations are required i.e. traditions
 and paradigms that challenge the hegemonic beliefs of religion, identity
 and property.

An understatement.

I am in the middle of a radical exercise to assess the psyche and measure 
levels of bigotry in an admittedly small sample of a predominantly educated, 
non resident Indian Hindu crowd.

This group accuse all Muslims of living in a blinkered world out of which it 
is difficult or impossible to dislocate them. However - sufficient prodding 
shows that the exact mirror image of those attitudes exist among these people 
too with no insight and therefore a complete inability to change their 
viewpoint or see things in a different light.

To me the most interesting thing is the presence of these attitudes among 
people who otherwise imagine that they are liberalism's gift to humankind.

In the last two or three days (perhaps yesterday) I was reading a newspaper 
article (Times of India or Deccan Herald) about how us and them atitudes 
are introduced very early in pre-school life and that teachers in schools 
need to be taught how to handle with care.

I tried to locate that article - but I haven't found it yet. Even Google uncle 
has been unable to help.

shiv

Re: [silk] Need some help

--- On Wed, 22/4/09, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: ss cybers...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Wednesday, 22 April, 2009, 6:19 AM
 On Tuesday 21 Apr 2009 9:41:22 pm
 Bonobashi wrote:

  Ignorant A-bangali, out to DESTROY Bangla culture!

 In other words there are only two types of human you can
 phind in this world

 A bangali and a-bangali

 shiv

At last, Sheeb Thakoor in his wijdom.

  Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! 
Edition http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/

Re: [silk] Need some help

--- On Wed, 22/4/09, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: ss cybers...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [silk] Need some help
 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net
 Date: Wednesday, 22 April, 2009, 6:48 AM
 On Tuesday 21 Apr 2009 10:11:30 pm
 Zainab Bawa wrote:
   Some pretty radical dislocations are required
 i.e. traditions
  and paradigms that challenge the hegemonic beliefs of
 religion, identity
  and property.

 An understatement.

 I am in the middle of a radical exercise to assess the
 psyche and measure 
 levels of bigotry in an admittedly small sample of a
 predominantly educated, 
 non resident Indian Hindu crowd.

 This group accuse all Muslims of living in a blinkered
 world out of which it 
 is difficult or impossible to dislocate them. However -
 sufficient prodding 
 shows that the exact mirror image of those attitudes exist
 among these people 
 too with no insight and therefore a complete inability to
 change their 
 viewpoint or see things in a different light.

that's called 'faith', Shiv.

You can't do anything with it, except kill babies and women.

  Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go to 
http://in.business.yahoo.com/

Re: [silk] Need some help

On Wednesday 22 Apr 2009 6:56:39 am Bonobashi wrote:
 You can't do anything with it, except kill babies and women.

I put it to you that this is the wrong thing to do.

One must always kill adolescent and adult men, and keep the women and children
That is a time tested way of making radical changes in mindset.

shiv

Re: [silk] India launches a few satellites

2009-04-21 Thread gabin kattukaran

On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:29 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wednesday 22 Apr 2009 1:46:23 am Srini RamaKrishnan wrote:
 Ummm... a satellite to transfer examination questions? WTF? Have they
 never heard of the internet or encryption?

 Not in unwired villages - whih is what this thing is really aimed at. They
 will need a satellite dish though.

you still don't need a dedicated satellite for that. Just one
transponder on any random communication satellite will do. IIRC all
district head quarters were already connected on a VSAT network.

-gabin


--

Re: [silk] India launches a few satellites