Re: Flying Scotsman

[cgprod]

Hi Geoff

 Many happy returns on your 79 th birthday ( are you going out for a
fish an chip dinner ) .

 They tell me that now you can start counting backwards SO  next
year you will be 78 etc



 RegardsGraham S .
- Original Message -
From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> Thanks Graham
>
> That's a good tip--listen on listers with alky fired locos!!
>
> Geoff.
>
> Hi Geoff
> >   On working for the tenderof my compound was confronted with a lack of
> >space for the tee pc for the combination gravity & pump feed line .
> >   Got the misses to knit another thinking cap and it seems to work ;;
got
> >three pcs of copper pipe 5/32 o/d & flared out the ends to 3/16 dia them
> >drilled three holes in a pc of brass 1/4 X 3/8 sq and proceeded to solder
> >the three pcs of copper tube into the holes ( walla ) had a tee pc 3/4
> >inches in length .
> > When you fit 1/8 bore silicon tube and soft wire clamp you cannot
> >remove unless you cut it off .
> >thought this might be of help to you sometime .
> >
> >  Regards.
> >
> >   Graham.
>
>
>
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
 Hang onto your Players and Woodbine cigarette cards. I was looking at 
some framed sets offered at a Yosemite Lodge a few weeks ago for between 
$350- >$700 per Frame of  25 cards.
 So scouted all my unpacked boxes in my garage, and found a 5 sets. 
There now with my steamup collectables.
 Also saw some silk flower embroidererd Players sets that were being 
offered at $400 for only 10 framed cards. At one time I had the whole set 
of 50, I think I swapped them when at school.
Do not mention Binns Road Dinky Toys!. ( I recently saw some identicle 
"Dinky Toys" as made in France). So do not be fooled on these.
 Tony D.
 At 07:21 PM 9/20/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>Yep Tony and Lunks Associate,
>
>I know-I was in love with Myrna Loy when I was 11--kept the  Players
>cigarette card with her visage by my bedside and would look at her by
>candle light. Unfortunately, I lost the card  playing that flicking game
>with school chums.  Lost my train cards the same way--Ah me!
>
>Still got a lovely set of Woodbines train cards!
>
>Geoff
>
>
>
>I think Myrna was a Loy, not a Lloyd..at least that's what I've been
> >told, not being as "experienced" as Geoff
> >Link's associate
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Geoff Spenceley]

Yep Tony and Lunks Associate,

I know-I was in love with Myrna Loy when I was 11--kept the  Players
cigarette card with her visage by my bedside and would look at her by
candle light. Unfortunately, I lost the card  playing that flicking game
with school chums.  Lost my train cards the same way--Ah me!

Still got a lovely set of Woodbines train cards!

Geoff



I think Myrna was a Loy, not a Lloyd..at least that's what I've been
>told, not being as "experienced" as Geoff
>Link's associate


 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
Not intended as a correction, just a pub discussion among the steamers, 
without the pint of bitter.
 Tony D.

At 06:47 PM 9/20/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>  Hey Tony et al,
>
>My apologies, I read the column for the Star  (early GWR 4-6-0  class) in
>the table rather than the King class,   The 4-row super King lists as 90.5
>tons--close enough. Engine with tender 137.2tons. Shows all the dimensions
>too!   Thanks for correcting me!
>
>Vera Lynn, Gracie Fields ( Oot in the cold cold snow-o-o!) I could go on,
>and on. How about George Formby???!!
>
>Pantomime!! ah, the pleasures of my childhood!-and-they still have 'em!
>
>Enough!
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>
>
>Hi Geoff,
> > Did not realize you had changed thought tracks from Scotsman scale
> >weight to the KGV. Sorry I did not catch your drift.
> > Anyway, my Ian Allan Locospotters reference book actually quotes the
> >King Class at 89 Tons for the engine, plus 46 Tons 14 cwt for the tender =
> >135 Tons 14Cwt = 304,068lbs.
> > Which puts the King's approx 17 Ton lighter than the A3,s.
> >
> > Do you really mean Vera Lynn or maybe Gracie Fields and Myra Lloyd!.
> > I would not really know, as anyone before The Beatles, Cilla Black and
> >Sandy Shore, is before my time, but I do recall seeing Julie Andrews, Ken
> >Dodd and Harry "Seagoon" in a Pantomime several times.
> > I will leave it to you to explain what a "Panto' is!.
> > Tony D.
> >
> >
> >At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
> >
> >>Hello Steve and Tony,
> >>
> >>Thanks for the input, I think Steve, that you are correct in your surmisal,
> >>particularly #2 which is why the model  of the KGV is  actually heavier
> >>that the scaling down  from the prototype would indicate..
> >>
> >>Tony, old man,  I wrote KGV!!-  (NOTE! ;-) the approx weight is 78 tons
> >>(with water and coal in the firebox) and comes from a very comprehensive
> >>manual I have on Great Western 4 cyl 4-6-0s; Loco Profile 3.
> >>
> >>Now with Tony's info on the prototype Flying Scotsman;  weight of the
> >>engine only: 96 X 2240 plus 5 X112=   215600 hefty pounds. The cube is
> >>6.58lbs  while the The model engine weighs 4.1KG or  9lbs. Much the same
> >>ratio  as the King--actually a little closer to the prototype, I believe
> >>tho I have not weighed the King.
> >>
> >>If our model weights were  more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
> >>wrecks would be more prototypical!! : dented boilers , smashed smoke boxes,
> >>collapsed cabs and a very dented wallet. As it is however, I just pick 'em
> >>up, back on the track and off they steam!
> >>
> >>Well???
> >>
> >>Geoff.
> >>
> >>Geoff,
> >> >
> >> >You are correct as always. The volumes and weights should scale by 
> the cube
> >> >(or cube root).
> >> >
> >> >How heavy is your 1/32 Flying Scotsman?
> >> >
> >> >Possible causes of being heavier:
> >> >
> >> >1. Denser materials in model than in prototype
> >> >2. Proportionately thicker sections in model than in prototype for
> >> >durability and to make fabrication possible
> >> >
> >> >Steve
> >>
> >>Tony wrote:  According to my Ian Allan "British Railways Locospotters
> >>Handbook" 1955
> >>Edition.
> >>All the A3s, (Including the Flying Scostman) introduced in 1927, weighed in
> >>at 96 tons 5 cwt for the engine, plus 56 Tons 6 cwt for the tender = 152
> >>Tons 11 cwt. Total, genuine English tons or 341, 712 lbs, as opposed to
> >>lightweight USA Tons.
> >> Where did your 78 tons reference originate from?.
> >
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Hey Tony et al,

My apologies, I read the column for the Star  (early GWR 4-6-0  class) in
the table rather than the King class,   The 4-row super King lists as 90.5
tons--close enough. Engine with tender 137.2tons. Shows all the dimensions
too!   Thanks for correcting me!

Vera Lynn, Gracie Fields ( Oot in the cold cold snow-o-o!) I could go on,
and on. How about George Formby???!!

Pantomime!! ah, the pleasures of my childhood!-and-they still have 'em!

Enough!

Geoff.




Hi Geoff,
> Did not realize you had changed thought tracks from Scotsman scale
>weight to the KGV. Sorry I did not catch your drift.
> Anyway, my Ian Allan Locospotters reference book actually quotes the
>King Class at 89 Tons for the engine, plus 46 Tons 14 cwt for the tender =
>135 Tons 14Cwt = 304,068lbs.
> Which puts the King's approx 17 Ton lighter than the A3,s.
>
> Do you really mean Vera Lynn or maybe Gracie Fields and Myra Lloyd!.
> I would not really know, as anyone before The Beatles, Cilla Black and
>Sandy Shore, is before my time, but I do recall seeing Julie Andrews, Ken
>Dodd and Harry "Seagoon" in a Pantomime several times.
> I will leave it to you to explain what a "Panto' is!.
> Tony D.
>
>
>At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>
>>Hello Steve and Tony,
>>
>>Thanks for the input, I think Steve, that you are correct in your surmisal,
>>particularly #2 which is why the model  of the KGV is  actually heavier
>>that the scaling down  from the prototype would indicate..
>>
>>Tony, old man,  I wrote KGV!!-  (NOTE! ;-) the approx weight is 78 tons
>>(with water and coal in the firebox) and comes from a very comprehensive
>>manual I have on Great Western 4 cyl 4-6-0s; Loco Profile 3.
>>
>>Now with Tony's info on the prototype Flying Scotsman;  weight of the
>>engine only: 96 X 2240 plus 5 X112=   215600 hefty pounds. The cube is
>>6.58lbs  while the The model engine weighs 4.1KG or  9lbs. Much the same
>>ratio  as the King--actually a little closer to the prototype, I believe
>>tho I have not weighed the King.
>>
>>If our model weights were  more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
>>wrecks would be more prototypical!! : dented boilers , smashed smoke boxes,
>>collapsed cabs and a very dented wallet. As it is however, I just pick 'em
>>up, back on the track and off they steam!
>>
>>Well???
>>
>>Geoff.
>>
>>Geoff,
>> >
>> >You are correct as always. The volumes and weights should scale by the cube
>> >(or cube root).
>> >
>> >How heavy is your 1/32 Flying Scotsman?
>> >
>> >Possible causes of being heavier:
>> >
>> >1. Denser materials in model than in prototype
>> >2. Proportionately thicker sections in model than in prototype for
>> >durability and to make fabrication possible
>> >
>> >Steve
>>
>>Tony wrote:  According to my Ian Allan "British Railways Locospotters
>>Handbook" 1955
>>Edition.
>>All the A3s, (Including the Flying Scostman) introduced in 1927, weighed in
>>at 96 tons 5 cwt for the engine, plus 56 Tons 6 cwt for the tender = 152
>>Tons 11 cwt. Total, genuine English tons or 341, 712 lbs, as opposed to
>>lightweight USA Tons.
>> Where did your 78 tons reference originate from?.
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Walt,
Whichever. Geoff is sure to know. Having been there and done that!.
Tony D.



At 07:53 PM 9/20/02 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I think Myrna was a Loy, not a Lloyd..at least that's what I've been
>told, not being as "experienced" as Geoff
>Link's associate
 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[WaltSwartz]

I think Myrna was a Loy, not a Lloyd..at least that's what I've been 
told, not being as "experienced" as Geoff
Link's associate 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
 Did not realize you had changed thought tracks from Scotsman scale 
weight to the KGV. Sorry I did not catch your drift.
 Anyway, my Ian Allan Locospotters reference book actually quotes the 
King Class at 89 Tons for the engine, plus 46 Tons 14 cwt for the tender = 
135 Tons 14Cwt = 304,068lbs.
 Which puts the King's approx 17 Ton lighter than the A3,s.

 Do you really mean Vera Lynn or maybe Gracie Fields and Myra Lloyd!.
 I would not really know, as anyone before The Beatles, Cilla Black and 
Sandy Shore, is before my time, but I do recall seeing Julie Andrews, Ken 
Dodd and Harry "Seagoon" in a Pantomime several times.
 I will leave it to you to explain what a "Panto' is!.
 Tony D.


At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:

>Hello Steve and Tony,
>
>Thanks for the input, I think Steve, that you are correct in your surmisal,
>particularly #2 which is why the model  of the KGV is  actually heavier
>that the scaling down  from the prototype would indicate..
>
>Tony, old man,  I wrote KGV!!-  (NOTE! ;-) the approx weight is 78 tons
>(with water and coal in the firebox) and comes from a very comprehensive
>manual I have on Great Western 4 cyl 4-6-0s; Loco Profile 3.
>
>Now with Tony's info on the prototype Flying Scotsman;  weight of the
>engine only: 96 X 2240 plus 5 X112=   215600 hefty pounds. The cube is
>6.58lbs  while the The model engine weighs 4.1KG or  9lbs. Much the same
>ratio  as the King--actually a little closer to the prototype, I believe
>tho I have not weighed the King.
>
>If our model weights were  more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
>wrecks would be more prototypical!! : dented boilers , smashed smoke boxes,
>collapsed cabs and a very dented wallet. As it is however, I just pick 'em
>up, back on the track and off they steam!
>
>Well???
>
>Geoff.
>
>Geoff,
> >
> >You are correct as always. The volumes and weights should scale by the cube
> >(or cube root).
> >
> >How heavy is your 1/32 Flying Scotsman?
> >
> >Possible causes of being heavier:
> >
> >1. Denser materials in model than in prototype
> >2. Proportionately thicker sections in model than in prototype for
> >durability and to make fabrication possible
> >
> >Steve
>
>Tony wrote:  According to my Ian Allan "British Railways Locospotters
>Handbook" 1955
>Edition.
>All the A3s, (Including the Flying Scostman) introduced in 1927, weighed in
>at 96 tons 5 cwt for the engine, plus 56 Tons 6 cwt for the tender = 152
>Tons 11 cwt. Total, genuine English tons or 341, 712 lbs, as opposed to
>lightweight USA Tons.
> Where did your 78 tons reference originate from?.
> >
>
> >
> >Now I am trying to figure scale weights relative to the prototypes--I
> >believe we take the cube, in that case my KGV  should weigh  just over 5#,
> >but of course it weighs more. The prototype was approx 78 tons--English
> >tons--2240# as I recall. Any thoughts, anyone We need a topic! We
> >should avoid Einsteins theory of relativity if possible, simple arithmetic
> >(my style) is in order. Get out yer calculator, Harry W!
> >
> >Geoff.
>
>
>
>
 

RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Geoff Spenceley]

Dear Arthur and Steve,

With your following comments--well, shouldn't we also scale down the
molecules and atoms--there's a whole new ball game, and it aint cricket!

I'll just accept that BIG kiss from Luz and return it!!

Geoff.   er-  Let me see; X (m squared) + k/X A3 divided by 7*32 X P&Q=
hic! =  That formula proves the Flying Scotsman can answer Arthur's
following question:  "Was there ever a steam locomotive that was supposed
to run 7.5 hours without stopping for some reason or another and the
engineer did not say "filler up"." The most important factor in the
equation being the P and Q!!

Fellows,  I wasn't going to get involved you your scaling discussions as I
don't feel up to your capacities.  But why scale water?  If the scale is
22.5 to 1 and a little locomotive will run 20 minutes on one watering and
fueling, which is 1/3 of and hour, that times 22.5 is 7.5 hours of running
without stopping.  Was there ever a steam locomotive that was supposed to
run 7.5 hours without stopping for some reason or another and the engineer
did not say "filler up"?

Hi Geoff.  Luz sends you a big kiss.


Geoff
>And I seem to remember from model yacht design that the specific gravity,
>density, and surface tension of water don't scale at all, which I am sure
>has implications for our steamers, too.
>
>But I am too muddled after a long day in harness to think about it much. I
>guess I'll head for the barn and pretend to tinker with the latest loco
>project.
>
>Take care.
>
>Steve
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Geoff Spenceley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:26 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
>Subject: RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight
>
>
>Right "Arry and Steve!
>
>It works both ways!  but Steve,  we are only scaling down from the
>prototype, not scaling up from the model.--Ugh--the prototype would sink
>thru the ballast!!  However boiler pressure could  be a couple of thousand
>PSI!
>
>With the model cab sides 004 matl as Harry rightly writes--I wouldn't need
>a wreck--just picking it up would crush the cab!
>
>How did we get into this? Was it me--I forget!
>
>Back to Walt's  and Jim's P and Qs, yes and Gs too--in a Brit pub, of
>course.
>
>Gallon Gulping Geoff.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>And from the other direction:  a simple 1/32 boiler made from copper pipe
>>would be 2" thick at full scale. That would be a heavy boiler.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Harry Wade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:35 PM
>>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
>>Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight
>>
>>
>>At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>>If our model weights were more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
>>>wrecks would be more prototypical!!
>>
>>Geoff old bean,
>>  I would venture to suggest that if our model material THICKNESSES
>>were to scale then your wrecks might be more prototypical.  1/8" cab plate
>>for instance would become .004" material, much more capable of prototypical
>>buckling.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Harry
>>
>
>
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Arthur Cohen]

Fellows,  I wasn't going to get involved you your scaling discussions as I
don't feel up to your capacities.  But why scale water?  If the scale is
22.5 to 1 and a little locomotive will run 20 minutes on one watering and
fueling, which is 1/3 of and hour, that times 22.5 is 7.5 hours of running
without stopping.  Was there ever a steam locomotive that was supposed to
run 7.5 hours without stopping for some reason or another and the engineer
did not say "filler up"?

Hi Geoff.  Luz sends you a big kiss.

Arthur--Mexico
- Original Message -
From: "Shyvers, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight


> Geoff,
>
> And I seem to remember from model yacht design that the specific gravity,
> density, and surface tension of water don't scale at all, which I am sure
> has implications for our steamers, too.
>
> But I am too muddled after a long day in harness to think about it much. I
> guess I'll head for the barn and pretend to tinker with the latest loco
> project.
>
> Take care.
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Geoff Spenceley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:26 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
> Subject: RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight
>
>
> Right "Arry and Steve!
>
> It works both ways!  but Steve,  we are only scaling down from the
> prototype, not scaling up from the model.--Ugh--the prototype would sink
> thru the ballast!!  However boiler pressure could  be a couple of thousand
> PSI!
>
> With the model cab sides 004 matl as Harry rightly writes--I wouldn't need
> a wreck--just picking it up would crush the cab!
>
> How did we get into this? Was it me--I forget!
>
> Back to Walt's  and Jim's P and Qs, yes and Gs too--in a Brit pub, of
> course.
>
> Gallon Gulping Geoff.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> And from the other direction:  a simple 1/32 boiler made from copper pipe
> >would be 2" thick at full scale. That would be a heavy boiler.
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Harry Wade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:35 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight
> >
> >
> >At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >>If our model weights were more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
> >>wrecks would be more prototypical!!
> >
> >Geoff old bean,
> >  I would venture to suggest that if our model material THICKNESSES
> >were to scale then your wrecks might be more prototypical.  1/8" cab
plate
> >for instance would become .004" material, much more capable of
prototypical
> >buckling.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Harry
> >
>
>
>

 

RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Shyvers, Steve]

Geoff,

And I seem to remember from model yacht design that the specific gravity,
density, and surface tension of water don't scale at all, which I am sure
has implications for our steamers, too. 

But I am too muddled after a long day in harness to think about it much. I
guess I'll head for the barn and pretend to tinker with the latest loco
project.

Take care.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Geoff Spenceley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
Subject: RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight


Right "Arry and Steve!

It works both ways!  but Steve,  we are only scaling down from the
prototype, not scaling up from the model.--Ugh--the prototype would sink
thru the ballast!!  However boiler pressure could  be a couple of thousand
PSI!

With the model cab sides 004 matl as Harry rightly writes--I wouldn't need
a wreck--just picking it up would crush the cab!

How did we get into this? Was it me--I forget!

Back to Walt's  and Jim's P and Qs, yes and Gs too--in a Brit pub, of
course.

Gallon Gulping Geoff.






And from the other direction:  a simple 1/32 boiler made from copper pipe
>would be 2" thick at full scale. That would be a heavy boiler.
>
>Steve
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Harry Wade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:35 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
>Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight
>
>
>At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>If our model weights were more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
>>wrecks would be more prototypical!!
>
>Geoff old bean,
>  I would venture to suggest that if our model material THICKNESSES
>were to scale then your wrecks might be more prototypical.  1/8" cab plate
>for instance would become .004" material, much more capable of prototypical
>buckling.
>
>Regards,
>Harry
>


  

RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Geoff Spenceley]

Right "Arry and Steve!

It works both ways!  but Steve,  we are only scaling down from the
prototype, not scaling up from the model.--Ugh--the prototype would sink
thru the ballast!!  However boiler pressure could  be a couple of thousand
PSI!

With the model cab sides 004 matl as Harry rightly writes--I wouldn't need
a wreck--just picking it up would crush the cab!

How did we get into this? Was it me--I forget!

Back to Walt's  and Jim's P and Qs, yes and Gs too--in a Brit pub, of course.

Gallon Gulping Geoff.






And from the other direction:  a simple 1/32 boiler made from copper pipe
>would be 2" thick at full scale. That would be a heavy boiler.
>
>Steve
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Harry Wade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:35 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
>Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight
>
>
>At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>If our model weights were more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
>>wrecks would be more prototypical!!
>
>Geoff old bean,
>  I would venture to suggest that if our model material THICKNESSES
>were to scale then your wrecks might be more prototypical.  1/8" cab plate
>for instance would become .004" material, much more capable of prototypical
>buckling.
>
>Regards,
>Harry
>


 

RE: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Shyvers, Steve]

And from the other direction:  a simple 1/32 boiler made from copper pipe
would be 2" thick at full scale. That would be a heavy boiler.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Harry Wade [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:35 PM
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight


At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
>If our model weights were more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
>wrecks would be more prototypical!!

Geoff old bean,
  I would venture to suggest that if our model material THICKNESSES
were to scale then your wrecks might be more prototypical.  1/8" cab plate
for instance would become .004" material, much more capable of prototypical
buckling.

Regards,
Harry
  

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Harry Wade]

At 12:22 PM 9/19/02 -0700, you wrote:
>If our model weights were more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
>wrecks would be more prototypical!!

Geoff old bean,
  I would venture to suggest that if our model material THICKNESSES
were to scale then your wrecks might be more prototypical.  1/8" cab plate
for instance would become .004" material, much more capable of prototypical
buckling.

Regards,
Harry
 

Re: Flying Scotsman scale weight

[Geoff Spenceley]

Hello Steve and Tony,

Thanks for the input, I think Steve, that you are correct in your surmisal,
particularly #2 which is why the model  of the KGV is  actually heavier
that the scaling down  from the prototype would indicate..

Tony, old man,  I wrote KGV!!-  (NOTE! ;-) the approx weight is 78 tons
(with water and coal in the firebox) and comes from a very comprehensive
manual I have on Great Western 4 cyl 4-6-0s; Loco Profile 3.

Now with Tony's info on the prototype Flying Scotsman;  weight of the
engine only: 96 X 2240 plus 5 X112=   215600 hefty pounds. The cube is
6.58lbs  while the The model engine weighs 4.1KG or  9lbs. Much the same
ratio  as the King--actually a little closer to the prototype, I believe
tho I have not weighed the King.

If our model weights were  more to scale and therefore flimsier, my train
wrecks would be more prototypical!! : dented boilers , smashed smoke boxes,
collapsed cabs and a very dented wallet. As it is however, I just pick 'em
up, back on the track and off they steam!

Well???

Geoff.

Geoff,
>
>You are correct as always. The volumes and weights should scale by the cube
>(or cube root).
>
>How heavy is your 1/32 Flying Scotsman?
>
>Possible causes of being heavier:
>
>1. Denser materials in model than in prototype
>2. Proportionately thicker sections in model than in prototype for
>durability and to make fabrication possible
>
>Steve

Tony wrote:  According to my Ian Allan "British Railways Locospotters
Handbook" 1955
Edition.
All the A3s, (Including the Flying Scostman) introduced in 1927, weighed in
at 96 tons 5 cwt for the engine, plus 56 Tons 6 cwt for the tender = 152
Tons 11 cwt. Total, genuine English tons or 341, 712 lbs, as opposed to
lightweight USA Tons.
Where did your 78 tons reference originate from?.
>

>
>Now I am trying to figure scale weights relative to the prototypes--I
>believe we take the cube, in that case my KGV  should weigh  just over 5#,
>but of course it weighs more. The prototype was approx 78 tons--English
>tons--2240# as I recall. Any thoughts, anyone We need a topic! We
>should avoid Einsteins theory of relativity if possible, simple arithmetic
>(my style) is in order. Get out yer calculator, Harry W!
>
>Geoff.



 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

Hi Tony,

I had to check the spelling too!!

Re  the A3--Part of the cab roof does remove and I haven't experinced a
problem reaching the controls--altho I will eventually change the blower
wheel to a lever--it's from the Stirling, obviously, and a bit fiddly and
delicate. Right, it is buried a little deep.

Hope you make it  up here, we don't get many  visitors up here who love
steam and coal.!

I will report on my experience today steaming the A3 and  some problems
that have to be fixed.

Geoff.


Hi Geoff,
> Thanks for the correction on the "inaugural". I had brain fade (again)
>and Eudora spell check could not find it either!.
> Enjoy your Scotsman, and the beat.
> Minor problem I see is that the blower control in the cab, is buried a
>little deep, cab roof is not removable, and even when tender is coupled for
>maximum access, with podgy fingers, or gloved, finite adjustment on the run
>is difficult. I think there is a need for the blower shaft to be
>lengthened. i.e. add an extension sleeve as a first mod.
>Steamup:- With job market so slow here, I may be heading in your
>direction for a steamup, extended vacation or early retirement in the
>Redwoods!.
> Regards,
> Tony D.
> At 05:21 PM 8/20/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>>  THanks Tony et al.,





 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
 Thanks for the correction on the "inaugural". I had brain fade (again) 
and Eudora spell check could not find it either!.
 Enjoy your Scotsman, and the beat.
 Minor problem I see is that the blower control in the cab, is buried a 
little deep, cab roof is not removable, and even when tender is coupled for 
maximum access, with podgy fingers, or gloved, finite adjustment on the run 
is difficult. I think there is a need for the blower shaft to be 
lengthened. i.e. add an extension sleeve as a first mod.
Steamup:- With job market so slow here, I may be heading in your 
direction for a steamup, extended vacation or early retirement in the 
Redwoods!.
 Regards,
 Tony D.
 At 05:21 PM 8/20/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>  THanks Tony et al.,
>
>Yes. you beat me with the INAUGURAL run--good for you! I have to fuss and
>air test etc, then stare at it for a few days! Then tremble out to the
>track! I would have loved to have been  at your inaugural, thanks for
>reporting. Well tomorrow--about 12 coaches-- a mix of anything--my railway
>is a nonsensical model of a  Brit excursion railway, circa NOW! Anything
>goes as far as coaches  are concerned, so why worry? Brown and white
>pullmans work very well. That's what my  HO Trix 4472   has as a consist.
>
>With Aster and O.S Engines, I believe they have something really good on
>paint. However nothing matches Tom Cooper's Merlins!! Baked enamel??
>
>One day--one day--I'll make one of your steamups!
>
>Geoff
>
>
>
>
>Hi Geoff,
> > I guess we  beat you with a Flying Scotsman inorgeral run at my
> >steamup in Livermore last Saturday. Mike McKenna brought his brand new
> >acquisition over barely unwrapped, and ran it for approx 30+ minutes, on
> >track, under full steam with no problems. Ran really well, sounded great,
> >with light load of three coaches, and the apple green paintwork remained
> >unblemished. (What does Aster use and do?). Even negotiated my infamous 2
> >metre rad Horshoe curve with no problem, once Mike had mastered the correct
> >throttle tweek setting. Sorry I did not have any LNER teak coaches, but the
> >brown and white pullmans looked good anyway.
> > Many thanks to all who attended. We had a great time as usual.
> > Regards,
> > Tony D.
>
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

 THanks Tony et al.,

Yes. you beat me with the INAUGURAL run--good for you! I have to fuss and
air test etc, then stare at it for a few days! Then tremble out to the
track! I would have loved to have been  at your inaugural, thanks for
reporting. Well tomorrow--about 12 coaches-- a mix of anything--my railway
is a nonsensical model of a  Brit excursion railway, circa NOW! Anything
goes as far as coaches  are concerned, so why worry? Brown and white
pullmans work very well. That's what my  HO Trix 4472   has as a consist.

With Aster and O.S Engines, I believe they have something really good on
paint. However nothing matches Tom Cooper's Merlins!! Baked enamel??

One day--one day--I'll make one of your steamups!

Geoff




Hi Geoff,
> I guess we  beat you with a Flying Scotsman inorgeral run at my
>steamup in Livermore last Saturday. Mike McKenna brought his brand new
>acquisition over barely unwrapped, and ran it for approx 30+ minutes, on
>track, under full steam with no problems. Ran really well, sounded great,
>with light load of three coaches, and the apple green paintwork remained
>unblemished. (What does Aster use and do?). Even negotiated my infamous 2
>metre rad Horshoe curve with no problem, once Mike had mastered the correct
>throttle tweek setting. Sorry I did not have any LNER teak coaches, but the
>brown and white pullmans looked good anyway.
> Many thanks to all who attended. We had a great time as usual.
> Regards,
> Tony D.



 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
 I guess we  beat you with a Flying Scotsman inorgeral run at my 
steamup in Livermore last Saturday. Mike McKenna brought his brand new 
acquisition over barely unwrapped, and ran it for approx 30+ minutes, on 
track, under full steam with no problems. Ran really well, sounded great, 
with light load of three coaches, and the apple green paintwork remained 
unblemished. (What does Aster use and do?). Even negotiated my infamous 2 
metre rad Horshoe curve with no problem, once Mike had mastered the correct 
throttle tweek setting. Sorry I did not have any LNER teak coaches, but the 
brown and white pullmans looked good anyway.
 Many thanks to all who attended. We had a great time as usual.
 Regards,
 Tony D.


At 09:34 AM 8/17/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>Thanks Gordon and Sir Art et al,
>
>So the beat goes on!! I air tested mine and it's better in reverse which is
>very smooth but forward is not  quite as good--it should be the other
>way!-0-well I will steam it and see how it runs- I may be too fussy or it
>may be just a little stiff (like me)!--I don't like the idea of retiming
>the center cylinder  valve on a new built up  loco. Yes a "C" type boiler
>by the drawings.
>
>I'll report on the steaming next week.
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>
>
>Gordon - Original Message -
> >From: "Gordon Watson." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 9:16 AM
> >Subject: Flying Scotsman
> >
> >
> >> Geoff,
> >>  if you think it looks pretty, wait till you hear it! it can be
> >> heard 50 yards away, a loud, cracking, 3 cylinder beat. I have never heard
> >> any thing like it from a Gauge 1 loco.
> >
> >I wonder why this is - the 'loud' bit I mean. I have a vague memory of JvR
> >writing in the Ga1 N/L that the sound needed something to bounce off of, &
> >that having a small number of firetubes & therefore a decent area of front
> >tube plate helped.
> >What is the FS arrangement? - JvR type 'C' isn't it? Just two 1/2" tubes?
> >
> >Art Walker, Guildford, England.
> >
>
>
>
 

Re: flying Scotsman,

[Art Walker]

- Original Message -
From: "Gordon Watson." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 7:51 AM
Subject: flying Scotsman,


> Art,
>   Yes its a JVR type C  2 off 1/2 inch tubes..I think it might be the
> fairly large smokebox volume and the choke of the petticoat looks larger
> than some other Asters Ive run. whatever it  works!
>   Gordon.
Thanks, Gordon.
I have the boiler tube & end-plates cut for a 'C' type for a US 4-6-0, so my
question was not academic.Nice to follow a recipe that works.

Art
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Larry Buerer]

Geoff Spenceley wrote:

>  It had to be shipped from S.C. to the remote woods on N.W California--where
> the retards live.EXCUSE ME!! Who lives here?
>
> I apologise to NG ers--I love those scales too--and MUCH BETTER for the
> pocket book! All three of my local steamers friends are NG--Like Larry
> Buerer--a lister also--and Kevin Schindler whose pics always clutter up the
> Summer steamups--Pleasanton for example!!

Are you bringing it over Sunday? I'm ready for some steamy fun!

Larry (Not Retarded) Buerer

 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[cgprod]

Hi Art.

   Idont know what Aster did to get the loud beat ;; but I use an empty
cream container ( type you get with a cup of coffee ) and put it over the
stack of my loco;s to magnify the sound ;; and you can hear exactly whats
happening in the cylinder . .
you have to move it about a little to get the full effect .

 Good steaming .

   Graham .S.

- Original Message -
From: Art Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 6:09 AM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gordon Watson." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 9:16 AM
> Subject: Flying Scotsman
>
>
> > Geoff,
> >  if you think it looks pretty, wait till you hear it! it can be
> > heard 50 yards away, a loud, cracking, 3 cylinder beat. I have never
heard
> > any thing like it from a Gauge 1 loco.
>
> I wonder why this is - the 'loud' bit I mean. I have a vague memory of JvR
> writing in the Ga1 N/L that the sound needed something to bounce off of, &
> that having a small number of firetubes & therefore a decent area of front
> tube plate helped.
> What is the FS arrangement? - JvR type 'C' isn't it? Just two 1/2" tubes?
>
> Art Walker, Guildford, England.
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[cgprod]

Hi Geoff

 Glad you like your Flyin Scot --am sure any of our list will be able to
tell you how to adjust your convulsional valve gear ( except me )

 Good luck with the first steam up.

 Regards  Graham.
- Original Message -
From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> Thanks Gordon and Sir Art et al,
>
> So the beat goes on!! I air tested mine and it's better in reverse which
is
> very smooth but forward is not  quite as good--it should be the other
> way!-0-well I will steam it and see how it runs- I may be too fussy or it
> may be just a little stiff (like me)!--I don't like the idea of retiming
> the center cylinder  valve on a new built up  loco. Yes a "C" type boiler
> by the drawings.
>
> I'll report on the steaming next week.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
>
> Gordon - Original Message -
> >From: "Gordon Watson." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 9:16 AM
> >Subject: Flying Scotsman
> >
> >
> >> Geoff,
> >>  if you think it looks pretty, wait till you hear it! it can be
> >> heard 50 yards away, a loud, cracking, 3 cylinder beat. I have never
heard
> >> any thing like it from a Gauge 1 loco.
> >
> >I wonder why this is - the 'loud' bit I mean. I have a vague memory of
JvR
> >writing in the Ga1 N/L that the sound needed something to bounce off of,
&
> >that having a small number of firetubes & therefore a decent area of
front
> >tube plate helped.
> >What is the FS arrangement? - JvR type 'C' isn't it? Just two 1/2" tubes?
> >
> >Art Walker, Guildford, England.
> >
>
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

Thanks Gordon and Sir Art et al,

So the beat goes on!! I air tested mine and it's better in reverse which is
very smooth but forward is not  quite as good--it should be the other
way!-0-well I will steam it and see how it runs- I may be too fussy or it
may be just a little stiff (like me)!--I don't like the idea of retiming
the center cylinder  valve on a new built up  loco. Yes a "C" type boiler
by the drawings.

I'll report on the steaming next week.

Geoff.




Gordon - Original Message -
>From: "Gordon Watson." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 9:16 AM
>Subject: Flying Scotsman
>
>
>> Geoff,
>>  if you think it looks pretty, wait till you hear it! it can be
>> heard 50 yards away, a loud, cracking, 3 cylinder beat. I have never heard
>> any thing like it from a Gauge 1 loco.
>
>I wonder why this is - the 'loud' bit I mean. I have a vague memory of JvR
>writing in the Ga1 N/L that the sound needed something to bounce off of, &
>that having a small number of firetubes & therefore a decent area of front
>tube plate helped.
>What is the FS arrangement? - JvR type 'C' isn't it? Just two 1/2" tubes?
>
>Art Walker, Guildford, England.
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Art Walker]

- Original Message -
From: "Gordon Watson." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 9:16 AM
Subject: Flying Scotsman


> Geoff,
>  if you think it looks pretty, wait till you hear it! it can be
> heard 50 yards away, a loud, cracking, 3 cylinder beat. I have never heard
> any thing like it from a Gauge 1 loco.

I wonder why this is - the 'loud' bit I mean. I have a vague memory of JvR
writing in the Ga1 N/L that the sound needed something to bounce off of, &
that having a small number of firetubes & therefore a decent area of front
tube plate helped.
What is the FS arrangement? - JvR type 'C' isn't it? Just two 1/2" tubes?

Art Walker, Guildford, England.
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Dave Cole]

At 1:53 PM -0700 8/16/02, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>I apologise to NG ers--I love those scales too--and MUCH BETTER for the
>pocket book! All three of my local steamers friends are NG--Like Larry
>Buerer--a lister also--and Kevin Schindler whose pics always clutter up the
>Summer steamups--Pleasanton for example!!

three out of 10 1:32'ers i know are brits ... coincidence? i think not ...

list mom is back.

\dmc

-- 
^^^
Dave Cole
Gen'l Sup't:  Grand Teton & Everglades Steam Excursion Co.
   Pacifica, Calif. USA  
List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers
   

^^^ 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Thanks Graham

That's a good tip--listen on listers with alky fired locos!!

Geoff.

Hi Geoff
>   On working for the tenderof my compound was confronted with a lack of
>space for the tee pc for the combination gravity & pump feed line .
>   Got the misses to knit another thinking cap and it seems to work ;; got
>three pcs of copper pipe 5/32 o/d & flared out the ends to 3/16 dia them
>drilled three holes in a pc of brass 1/4 X 3/8 sq and proceeded to solder
>the three pcs of copper tube into the holes ( walla ) had a tee pc 3/4
>inches in length .
> When you fit 1/8 bore silicon tube and soft wire clamp you cannot
>remove unless you cut it off .
>thought this might be of help to you sometime .
>
>  Regards.
>
>   Graham.




 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[cgprod]

Hi Geoff
   On working for the tenderof my compound was confronted with a lack of
space for the tee pc for the combination gravity & pump feed line .
   Got the misses to knit another thinking cap and it seems to work ;; got
three pcs of copper pipe 5/32 o/d & flared out the ends to 3/16 dia them
drilled three holes in a pc of brass 1/4 X 3/8 sq and proceeded to solder
the three pcs of copper tube into the holes ( walla ) had a tee pc 3/4
inches in length .
 When you fit 1/8 bore silicon tube and soft wire clamp you cannot
remove unless you cut it off .
thought this might be of help to you sometime .

  Regards.

   Graham.

- Original Message -
From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> >Hi Graham,
>
> Perhaps the vent tube in the alcohol tank of the tender is not the right
> length,(too high in the sump?) flooding the wicks--but why would it then
> stop feeding?--Hmm--Find the Missus, make her knit you another thinking
> cap!!!
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> Hi Geoff.
> >
> >No Aplogies necessary only pleased you tried to help in our little
> >discussion ( ie ) regards finish ;; Tony may well be right after all ;;
my
> >interest came later when all the engineswere looked after just for
> >performance rather than appearance,
> >Just been trying to run my new engine with my Duchess tender but can
get
> >a steady fuel flow / overflows one min  / dry the next  am now looking
for
> >my thinking cap but my wife borrowed it and she cant find the darn thing
> >
> >
> >  Thanks again Geoff.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Graham S.
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
> >
> >
> >> Hallo Graham and Tony D.
> >>
> >> Blast it, my Steam Worlds only go back to the beginning of 2000  so I
> >don't
> >> have  issue146 dated august1999 with the article you mention.  --so
sorry.
> >> My friend in England sent me Steam Days until the end of 99.
> >>
> >>
> >> My apologies.
> >>
> >> Geoff.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Geoff
> >> >  Thanks for looking in your collection ;; never thought you would
have
> >that
> >> >magazine in CA .
> >> >  There are quite a few refurbished engines in this issue and is
> >interesting
> >> >to compare ( ie ) to what we are talking about.
> >> >  To be honest im trying to make an excuse for not succeeding in
getting
> >the
> >> >same finish on my engines as Aster .
> >> >
> >> >   Regards
> >> >
> >> >Graham S .
> >> >- Original Message -
> >> >From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:21 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I may have the Aug 99 Steam World-I shall check my archives for
Tony.
> >> >>
> >> >> Geoff.
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Tony.
> >> >> >  Thanks for you very interesting comments about pre
nationalized
> >> >> >british railways ;;; sounds as if you lived in the UK for a
> >considerable
> >> >> >time ? .
> >> >> > I agree with your comments about cleaning surfaces for
inspection
> >> >> >purposes / also / about tinplate toys;;wich is exactly what I was
> >talking
> >> >> >about with Aster locos in my view wich may not be everybodys view
> >they
> >> >look
> >> >> >to tinlatish to me .
> >> >> >No tony I do not remember pre nationalized rail I was talking
> >about
> >> >> >nationalized british rail ;; its a pity you can not get the Steam
> >world
> >> >> >magazine issue146 dated august1999 ;; on pages 8 & 9 it shows
exactly
> >> >what I
> >> >> >am remembering and talking about ( a black five just out of the
> >fitting
> >> >shop
> >> >> >, a buitifull shiny black with a rough undersurface ) .
> >> >> > With regards to your comment about preserved loco

Re: Flying Scotsman

[cgprod]

Hi Geoff.
I did not want you to loose any sleep tonight so I thought I would tell
you what I discovered when I got on my hands & knee;s ( get on my knees at a
last resort )  The teflon tube had a kink inbetween tender and engine  so
after the initial charging was used it became dry as the metholhydrate would
not pass the trap ,
   The flooding was caused by the  " O "  failure on the tank filler plug .
( now I have run out of fuel ) I blame it on the government .


   Regards .

   Graham. S

- Original Message -
From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> >Hi Graham,
>
> Perhaps the vent tube in the alcohol tank of the tender is not the right
> length,(too high in the sump?) flooding the wicks--but why would it then
> stop feeding?--Hmm--Find the Missus, make her knit you another thinking
> cap!!!
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> Hi Geoff.
> >
> >No Aplogies necessary only pleased you tried to help in our little
> >discussion ( ie ) regards finish ;; Tony may well be right after all ;;
my
> >interest came later when all the engineswere looked after just for
> >performance rather than appearance,
> >Just been trying to run my new engine with my Duchess tender but can
get
> >a steady fuel flow / overflows one min  / dry the next  am now looking
for
> >my thinking cap but my wife borrowed it and she cant find the darn thing
> >
> >
> >  Thanks again Geoff.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Graham S.
> >
> >- Original Message -----
> >From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
> >
> >
> >> Hallo Graham and Tony D.
> >>
> >> Blast it, my Steam Worlds only go back to the beginning of 2000  so I
> >don't
> >> have  issue146 dated august1999 with the article you mention.  --so
sorry.
> >> My friend in England sent me Steam Days until the end of 99.
> >>
> >>
> >> My apologies.
> >>
> >> Geoff.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Geoff
> >> >  Thanks for looking in your collection ;; never thought you would
have
> >that
> >> >magazine in CA .
> >> >  There are quite a few refurbished engines in this issue and is
> >interesting
> >> >to compare ( ie ) to what we are talking about.
> >> >  To be honest im trying to make an excuse for not succeeding in
getting
> >the
> >> >same finish on my engines as Aster .
> >> >
> >> >   Regards
> >> >
> >> >Graham S .
> >> >- Original Message -
> >> >From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:21 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I may have the Aug 99 Steam World-I shall check my archives for
Tony.
> >> >>
> >> >> Geoff.
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Tony.
> >> >> >  Thanks for you very interesting comments about pre
nationalized
> >> >> >british railways ;;; sounds as if you lived in the UK for a
> >considerable
> >> >> >time ? .
> >> >> > I agree with your comments about cleaning surfaces for
inspection
> >> >> >purposes / also / about tinplate toys;;wich is exactly what I was
> >talking
> >> >> >about with Aster locos in my view wich may not be everybodys view
> >they
> >> >look
> >> >> >to tinlatish to me .
> >> >> >No tony I do not remember pre nationalized rail I was talking
> >about
> >> >> >nationalized british rail ;; its a pity you can not get the Steam
> >world
> >> >> >magazine issue146 dated august1999 ;; on pages 8 & 9 it shows
exactly
> >> >what I
> >> >> >am remembering and talking about ( a black five just out of the
> >fitting
> >> >shop
> >> >> >, a buitifull shiny black with a rough undersurface ) .
> >> >> > With regards to your comment about preserved locos in my
opinion
> >> >again
> >> >> >its my opinion  ;;they look wonderful and shows the pride of the
> >

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

>Hi Graham,

Perhaps the vent tube in the alcohol tank of the tender is not the right
length,(too high in the sump?) flooding the wicks--but why would it then
stop feeding?--Hmm--Find the Missus, make her knit you another thinking
cap!!!

Geoff.



Hi Geoff.
>
>No Aplogies necessary only pleased you tried to help in our little
>discussion ( ie ) regards finish ;; Tony may well be right after all ;; my
>interest came later when all the engineswere looked after just for
>performance rather than appearance,
>Just been trying to run my new engine with my Duchess tender but can get
>a steady fuel flow / overflows one min  / dry the next  am now looking for
>my thinking cap but my wife borrowed it and she cant find the darn thing
>
>
>  Thanks again Geoff.
>
> Regards
>
> Graham S.
>
>- Original Message -
>From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:52 PM
>Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
>
>
>> Hallo Graham and Tony D.
>>
>> Blast it, my Steam Worlds only go back to the beginning of 2000  so I
>don't
>> have  issue146 dated august1999 with the article you mention.  --so sorry.
>> My friend in England sent me Steam Days until the end of 99.
>>
>>
>> My apologies.
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>>
>> Hi Geoff
>> >  Thanks for looking in your collection ;; never thought you would have
>that
>> >magazine in CA .
>> >  There are quite a few refurbished engines in this issue and is
>interesting
>> >to compare ( ie ) to what we are talking about.
>> >  To be honest im trying to make an excuse for not succeeding in getting
>the
>> >same finish on my engines as Aster .
>> >
>> >   Regards
>> >
>> >Graham S .
>> >- Original Message -
>> >From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:21 PM
>> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
>> >
>> >
>> >> I may have the Aug 99 Steam World-I shall check my archives for Tony.
>> >>
>> >> Geoff.
>> >>
>> >> Hi Tony.
>> >> >  Thanks for you very interesting comments about pre nationalized
>> >> >british railways ;;; sounds as if you lived in the UK for a
>considerable
>> >> >time ? .
>> >> > I agree with your comments about cleaning surfaces for inspection
>> >> >purposes / also / about tinplate toys;;wich is exactly what I was
>talking
>> >> >about with Aster locos in my view wich may not be everybodys view
>they
>> >look
>> >> >to tinlatish to me .
>> >> >No tony I do not remember pre nationalized rail I was talking
>about
>> >> >nationalized british rail ;; its a pity you can not get the Steam
>world
>> >> >magazine issue146 dated august1999 ;; on pages 8 & 9 it shows exactly
>> >what I
>> >> >am remembering and talking about ( a black five just out of the
>fitting
>> >shop
>> >> >, a buitifull shiny black with a rough undersurface ) .
>> >> > With regards to your comment about preserved locos in my opinion
>> >again
>> >> >its my opinion  ;;they look wonderful and shows the pride of the
>> >> >preservationists.
>> >> >
>> >> >  Thanks again Tony nice to chat with you
>> >> >
>> >> >  Regards.
>> >> >
>> >> > Graham S .
>> >> >
>> >> >- Original Message -
>> >> >From: Anthony Dixon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 4:36 PM
>> >> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hi Graham,
>> >> >>  To weather or not to weather, is that is the question!.
>> >> >>  On the contrary. The 1/1 Scale correctly repainted finishes
>> >produced
>> >> >> after overall rebuilds I have seen during the years, were
>exceptionally
>> >> >> smooth, together with a  high "glossy" finish. Regardless of the
>> >subject.
>> >> >>  I suggest any 1/1 Scale "overpainted surface roughness" seen,
>was
>

Re: Flying Scotsman

[cgprod]

Hi Geoff.

No Aplogies necessary only pleased you tried to help in our little
discussion ( ie ) regards finish ;; Tony may well be right after all ;; my
interest came later when all the engineswere looked after just for
performance rather than appearance,
Just been trying to run my new engine with my Duchess tender but can get
a steady fuel flow / overflows one min  / dry the next  am now looking for
my thinking cap but my wife borrowed it and she cant find the darn thing


  Thanks again Geoff.

 Regards

 Graham S.

- Original Message -
From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> Hallo Graham and Tony D.
>
> Blast it, my Steam Worlds only go back to the beginning of 2000  so I
don't
> have  issue146 dated august1999 with the article you mention.  --so sorry.
> My friend in England sent me Steam Days until the end of 99.
>
>
> My apologies.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
> Hi Geoff
> >  Thanks for looking in your collection ;; never thought you would have
that
> >magazine in CA .
> >  There are quite a few refurbished engines in this issue and is
interesting
> >to compare ( ie ) to what we are talking about.
> >  To be honest im trying to make an excuse for not succeeding in getting
the
> >same finish on my engines as Aster .
> >
> >   Regards
> >
> >Graham S .
> >- Original Message -
> >From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:21 PM
> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
> >
> >
> >> I may have the Aug 99 Steam World-I shall check my archives for Tony.
> >>
> >> Geoff.
> >>
> >> Hi Tony.
> >> >  Thanks for you very interesting comments about pre nationalized
> >> >british railways ;;; sounds as if you lived in the UK for a
considerable
> >> >time ? .
> >> > I agree with your comments about cleaning surfaces for inspection
> >> >purposes / also / about tinplate toys;;wich is exactly what I was
talking
> >> >about with Aster locos in my view wich may not be everybodys view
they
> >look
> >> >to tinlatish to me .
> >> >No tony I do not remember pre nationalized rail I was talking
about
> >> >nationalized british rail ;; its a pity you can not get the Steam
world
> >> >magazine issue146 dated august1999 ;; on pages 8 & 9 it shows exactly
> >what I
> >> >am remembering and talking about ( a black five just out of the
fitting
> >shop
> >> >, a buitifull shiny black with a rough undersurface ) .
> >> > With regards to your comment about preserved locos in my opinion
> >again
> >> >its my opinion  ;;they look wonderful and shows the pride of the
> >> >preservationists.
> >> >
> >> >  Thanks again Tony nice to chat with you
> >> >
> >> >  Regards.
> >> >
> >> > Graham S .
> >> >
> >> >- Original Message -
> >> >From: Anthony Dixon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 4:36 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Graham,
> >> >>  To weather or not to weather, is that is the question!.
> >> >>  On the contrary. The 1/1 Scale correctly repainted finishes
> >produced
> >> >> after overall rebuilds I have seen during the years, were
exceptionally
> >> >> smooth, together with a  high "glossy" finish. Regardless of the
> >subject.
> >> >>  I suggest any 1/1 Scale "overpainted surface roughness" seen,
was
> >a
> >> >> result of plating surface erosion not being ground out before gloss
> >> >> overpaint is added. i.e. a quick and cheap repaint job to disguise
> >> >> potential metal surface defects, protect a pre-rusting area, thin
> >plates,
> >> >> to hide potential problems, keep running at all costs theory and not
> >due
> >> >to
> >> >> "rough paint".
> >> >>  When the various earlier rail companies in the UK, LMS,LNER,
GWR
> >and
> >> >> Southern were in direct competition for travellers, up to the late
30s
> >and
> >> >&

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

Hallo Graham and Tony D.

Blast it, my Steam Worlds only go back to the beginning of 2000  so I don't
have  issue146 dated august1999 with the article you mention.  --so sorry.
My friend in England sent me Steam Days until the end of 99.


My apologies.

Geoff.


Hi Geoff
>  Thanks for looking in your collection ;; never thought you would have that
>magazine in CA .
>  There are quite a few refurbished engines in this issue and is interesting
>to compare ( ie ) to what we are talking about.
>  To be honest im trying to make an excuse for not succeeding in getting the
>same finish on my engines as Aster .
>
>   Regards
>
>Graham S .
>- Original Message -
>From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:21 PM
>Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
>
>
>> I may have the Aug 99 Steam World-I shall check my archives for Tony.
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>> Hi Tony.
>> >  Thanks for you very interesting comments about pre nationalized
>> >british railways ;;; sounds as if you lived in the UK for a considerable
>> >time ? .
>> > I agree with your comments about cleaning surfaces for inspection
>> >purposes / also / about tinplate toys;;wich is exactly what I was talking
>> >about with Aster locos in my view wich may not be everybodys view  they
>look
>> >to tinlatish to me .
>> >No tony I do not remember pre nationalized rail I was talking about
>> >nationalized british rail ;; its a pity you can not get the Steam world
>> >magazine issue146 dated august1999 ;; on pages 8 & 9 it shows exactly
>what I
>> >am remembering and talking about ( a black five just out of the fitting
>shop
>> >, a buitifull shiny black with a rough undersurface ) .
>> > With regards to your comment about preserved locos in my opinion
>again
>> >its my opinion  ;;they look wonderful and shows the pride of the
>> >preservationists.
>> >
>> >  Thanks again Tony nice to chat with you
>> >
>> >  Regards.
>> >
>> > Graham S .
>> >
>> >- Original Message -
>> >From: Anthony Dixon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 4:36 PM
>> >Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi Graham,
>> >>  To weather or not to weather, is that is the question!.
>> >>  On the contrary. The 1/1 Scale correctly repainted finishes
>produced
>> >> after overall rebuilds I have seen during the years, were exceptionally
>> >> smooth, together with a  high "glossy" finish. Regardless of the
>subject.
>> >>  I suggest any 1/1 Scale "overpainted surface roughness" seen, was
>a
>> >> result of plating surface erosion not being ground out before gloss
>> >> overpaint is added. i.e. a quick and cheap repaint job to disguise
>> >> potential metal surface defects, protect a pre-rusting area, thin
>plates,
>> >> to hide potential problems, keep running at all costs theory and not
>due
>> >to
>> >> "rough paint".
>> >>  When the various earlier rail companies in the UK, LMS,LNER, GWR
>and
>> >> Southern were in direct competition for travellers, up to the late 30s
>and
>> >> 40s, they took great pride in the daily cleaning, inspection and
>quarterly
>> >> maintenance repainting programs. Surface grinding to bare metal was a
>> >> necessity to ensure true inspection of possible underlaying long term
>> >metal
>> >> weathering problems. Or, the smooth metal surfaces were already new
>> >> replacement plates. As a result, the repainted surfaces were also very
>> >smooth.
>> >>  During these times up to the late 1950s, a railway apprentice had
>to
>> >> spend his initial 2 years specifically cleaning engines daily, before
>he
>> >> was allowed into the paint, maintenance, fitting or machining shops,
>and
>> >> later into firing duties. So there was plenty of cheap labour around to
>> >> keep running engines cleaned/polished almost daily.
>> >>
>> >>  However, most recently, many of the "Heritage Societies" seem to
>be
>> >> going a little overboard in achieving a museum quality "glossiness" on
>> >> their total rebuilds. So maybe the theory still is  that an extremely
>> >> glossy finish does attract more customers, is easier to keep clean,
>easier
>> >> to recognize potential underlaying plating problems, as per the early
>LMS,
>> >> LNER days. But now gives an almost "toylike" tin plate finish.
>> >>  And we do not want our working scale model  1/32, 10mm or G1 Live
>> >> Steamers to look like toy tin plate engines do we?.
>> >>  Alternatively a "orange peel" finish on a 1/32 scale live steamer
>> >> scaled up to 1/1 may give the ''very rough" full size finish you saw.
>i.e.
>> >> scale erosion!.
>> >>  Regards,
>> >>  Tony D.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Jeanne Baer]

http://www.millerhats.com/chauf1.htm

Sizes 6 1/2-8
$57.50

The hat is plain. You have to supply your own braid.

Victor Lacy

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Denning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> What I wanna know is,  Where did he get that HAT!
> 
> Anybody know where I can get a Conductor's Hat (size very large!)?
> 
> Thanks
> Michael
> Florida
> USA
> Iron Nut
> 

 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Michael Denning]

What I wanna know is,  Where did he get that HAT!

Anybody know where I can get a Conductor's Hat (size very large!)?

Thanks
Michael
Florida
USA
Iron Nut

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> Here is a pic of him and his locomotive:
> http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/rrr3.jpg
> Bob
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Cgnr]

Here is a pic of him and his locomotive:
http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/rrr3.jpg
Bob 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Cgnr]

In a message dated 8/8/02 10:21:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Has any member thought of making a small boxcar for the Ruby containing a
 larger gas tank / a R/C receiver for throttle and a small water pump mounted
 in a water tank. >>
Obvious that you have not seen the formidable work of Larry Bangham's Ruby.  
He has a water car that automatically feeds the boiler via electric pump with 
sensing devices in the boiler.  He also has a car that disguises a Gaz tank 
as a water tank.  A very good string of cars , not sure but I will look for a 
pic.


Bob Starr
http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/";>ART IN GARDEN RAILROADING-THE 
CGNR
http://www.geocities.com/cgnr.geo/ 

Re: Flying Scotsman/coal firing

[Geoff Spenceley]

Phil,

I soak the charcoal with as much kerosene as possible just short of it
dripping into the ash pan and burning there!! I do have a friend that also
steams so we chat., I too have had several varieties of coal--one almost as
good as the Welsh coal. Some I got from Kentucky was beautifully sized but
would clinker into artistic chunks! So, I mixed it with other coals and
that worked quite well. Some "coal" a friend gave me was good for building
a slate roof!

Geoffo.



>Geoff;
>I'm assuming you soak the charcoal in Kerosene first. One of the advantages
>to belonging to a club comes into play here. While you're waiting
>(impatiently) for the fire, you get to visit and chat with like minded souls
>doing the same thing. Mike Moore is the resident Gauge1 coal firing expert.
>You do pay very close attention to what is going on.  When Mike started a
>couple of years ago, he had at least a half dozen different kinds of coal he
>played with. He has found that not even all the Welsh coal is created equal.
>Phil
>
>> >Tony et al,
>>
>> No wonder I have been unable to thin Aster paint! Isn't Trichlorethylene
>> used in some  cleaning sprays. I used to use it a lot which probably
>> accounts for my condition today!
>>  The (blank scale) Britannia ran very well as I actually took time to lay
>a
>> proper sized bed of charcoal and waited (impatiently) for it to burn to
>the
>> right color before adding the coal. The compressed venturi nozzle I
>patched
>> together worked much better for this loco than the blower fan ever did.
>>
>>  Of course, the fire making applies to the smaller (blank scales) as
>> well!--Alto' I believe the smaller locos are more tricky to fire.
>>
>> Paint again--the toughest paint jobs I've ever seen on a loco are those of
>> Tom Cooper's on the Merlins!
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Geoff,
>> > You are correct again.
>> >  I suggest one of Asters best kept secrets is their paint, prep and
>> >applications methods. And certainly a standard other suppliers need to
>> >equal. However Asters touch up paint as supplied, is too thick to blend,
>> >and I understand that the only usable thinner is Trichlorethylene with
>> >nasty fumes, not conducive to a long life!. It is, I believe now an OSHA
>> >no-no in USA. I tried to obtain some, to touch up several hairline
>> >scratches on a U1 for a friend of mine, but have not had any luck.
>> >   Tony D.
>> > 06:30 PM 7/31/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>> >>  Dear Tony et al,
>> >>
>> >>Tch, Tch
>> >>
>> >>You wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight
>> >> >glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!.
>> >>
>> >>Hope they didn't copy the paint job--you asked for it!
>> >>
>> >>You wrote again:
>> >>
>> >> >  I think a better improvement would have been if they had
>replaced the
>> >> >"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give
>better
>> >> >and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing
>> >> >movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to
>R/C.<<
>> >>
>> >>Absolutely!! my reverser on those screw jack locos is the hand of God!
>> >>
>> >>You wrote again, again:
>> >>
>> >> >  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does
>this
>> >> >have a drip sight glass also?<
>> >>
>> >>Yer right.but the drip sight glass?- I'm the only drip around here!
>> >>
>> >>More info when I get the loco and more pints!
>> >>
>> >>Stay with it List! Wonder how many are  getting the Flying Scotsman and
>are
>> >>there any comments--especially from you Brits or Aussies? who may
>already
>> >>have them up and steaming? I realise many of you have kits--I'm
>deviating
>> >>this time and getting the built-up.  It had better steam as well as my
>> >>kits!!  Ho, Ho, you say
>> >>
>> >>Geoff.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

Hallo Graham,

I have been told by an "observer" that the shine on the Aster production
does not have a high gloss,  I quote: >>The paintwork is a very good
rendition of LNER green, not too glossy, and
best viewed in natural daylight.<<

I think Aster does attempt to vary the finishes according to the prototype.
Any list assurances on that??

 I'll have to see if it matches my 1968 Trix HO model--I think the shade
and texture is correct on that--wotta way to compare--but I'm not pure!

Steam On,

Geoff.







>
>Have been watching your to and froes with Tony regarding paint jobs
>;; I agree with your statement as to regards to Asters finishes ( superb )
>however I have two thoughts on this subject
>First thought is are our live steam models supposed to be as close
>to possible as the prototype ? ( ie ) as from erecting shop ;;; I have seen
>a few of these new engines direct out of the shop ( I know ;; was very young
>at the time )  and if you were to rub your hand over the paint job you would
>have quite a lot of skin missing ;; what I am saying is there should be not
>much shine on our models as  Aster produces ( as I said just a thought .
>
> Regards
>
>   Graham S.
>
>- Original Message -
>From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:14 PM
>Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman
>
>
>> >Tony et al,
>>
>> No wonder I have been unable to thin Aster paint! Isn't Trichlorethylene
>> used in some  cleaning sprays. I used to use it a lot which probably
>> accounts for my condition today!
>>  The (blank scale) Britannia ran very well as I actually took time to lay
>a
>> proper sized bed of charcoal and waited (impatiently) for it to burn to
>the
>> right color before adding the coal. The compressed venturi nozzle I
>patched
>> together worked much better for this loco than the blower fan ever did.
>>
>>  Of course, the fire making applies to the smaller (blank scales) as
>> well!--Alto' I believe the smaller locos are more tricky to fire.
>>
>> Paint again--the toughest paint jobs I've ever seen on a loco are those of
>> Tom Cooper's on the Merlins!
>>
>> Geoff.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Geoff,
>> > You are correct again.
>> >  I suggest one of Asters best kept secrets is their paint, prep and
>> >applications methods. And certainly a standard other suppliers need to
>> >equal. However Asters touch up paint as supplied, is too thick to blend,
>> >and I understand that the only usable thinner is Trichlorethylene with
>> >nasty fumes, not conducive to a long life!. It is, I believe now an OSHA
>> >no-no in USA. I tried to obtain some, to touch up several hairline
>> >scratches on a U1 for a friend of mine, but have not had any luck.
>> >   Tony D.
>> > 06:30 PM 7/31/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>> >>  Dear Tony et al,
>> >>
>> >>Tch, Tch
>> >>
>> >>You wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight
>> >> >glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!.
>> >>
>> >>Hope they didn't copy the paint job--you asked for it!
>> >>
>> >>You wrote again:
>> >>
>> >> >  I think a better improvement would have been if they had
>replaced the
>> >> >"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give
>better
>> >> >and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing
>> >> >movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to
>R/C.<<
>> >>
>> >>Absolutely!! my reverser on those screw jack locos is the hand of God!
>> >>
>> >>You wrote again, again:
>> >>
>> >> >  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does
>this
>> >> >have a drip sight glass also?<
>> >>
>> >>Yer right.but the drip sight glass?- I'm the only drip around here!
>> >>
>> >>More info when I get the loco and more pints!
>> >>
>> >>Stay with it List! Wonder how many are  getting the Flying Scotsman and
>are
>> >>there any comments--especially from you Brits or Aussies? who may
>already
>> >>have them up and steaming? I realise many of you have kits--I'm
>deviating
>> >>this time and getting the built-up.  It had better steam as well as my
>> >>kits!!  Ho, Ho, you say
>> >>
>> >>Geoff.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[cgprod]

Hi Geoff.

Have been watching your to and froes with Tony regarding paint jobs
;; I agree with your statement as to regards to Asters finishes ( superb )
however I have two thoughts on this subject
First thought is are our live steam models supposed to be as close
to possible as the prototype ? ( ie ) as from erecting shop ;;; I have seen
a few of these new engines direct out of the shop ( I know ;; was very young
at the time )  and if you were to rub your hand over the paint job you would
have quite a lot of skin missing ;; what I am saying is there should be not
much shine on our models as  Aster produces ( as I said just a thought .

 Regards

   Graham S.

- Original Message -
From: Geoff Spenceley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: Flying Scotsman


> >Tony et al,
>
> No wonder I have been unable to thin Aster paint! Isn't Trichlorethylene
> used in some  cleaning sprays. I used to use it a lot which probably
> accounts for my condition today!
>  The (blank scale) Britannia ran very well as I actually took time to lay
a
> proper sized bed of charcoal and waited (impatiently) for it to burn to
the
> right color before adding the coal. The compressed venturi nozzle I
patched
> together worked much better for this loco than the blower fan ever did.
>
>  Of course, the fire making applies to the smaller (blank scales) as
> well!--Alto' I believe the smaller locos are more tricky to fire.
>
> Paint again--the toughest paint jobs I've ever seen on a loco are those of
> Tom Cooper's on the Merlins!
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> Hi Geoff,
> > You are correct again.
> >  I suggest one of Asters best kept secrets is their paint, prep and
> >applications methods. And certainly a standard other suppliers need to
> >equal. However Asters touch up paint as supplied, is too thick to blend,
> >and I understand that the only usable thinner is Trichlorethylene with
> >nasty fumes, not conducive to a long life!. It is, I believe now an OSHA
> >no-no in USA. I tried to obtain some, to touch up several hairline
> >scratches on a U1 for a friend of mine, but have not had any luck.
> >   Tony D.
> > 06:30 PM 7/31/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
> >>  Dear Tony et al,
> >>
> >>Tch, Tch
> >>
> >>You wrote:
> >>
> >> >  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight
> >> >glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!.
> >>
> >>Hope they didn't copy the paint job--you asked for it!
> >>
> >>You wrote again:
> >>
> >> >  I think a better improvement would have been if they had
replaced the
> >> >"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give
better
> >> >and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing
> >> >movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to
R/C.<<
> >>
> >>Absolutely!! my reverser on those screw jack locos is the hand of God!
> >>
> >>You wrote again, again:
> >>
> >> >  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does
this
> >> >have a drip sight glass also?<
> >>
> >>Yer right.but the drip sight glass?- I'm the only drip around here!
> >>
> >>More info when I get the loco and more pints!
> >>
> >>Stay with it List! Wonder how many are  getting the Flying Scotsman and
are
> >>there any comments--especially from you Brits or Aussies? who may
already
> >>have them up and steaming? I realise many of you have kits--I'm
deviating
> >>this time and getting the built-up.  It had better steam as well as my
> >>kits!!  Ho, Ho, you say
> >>
> >>Geoff.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman/coal firing

[Phil Paskos]

Geoff;
I'm assuming you soak the charcoal in Kerosene first. One of the advantages
to belonging to a club comes into play here. While you're waiting
(impatiently) for the fire, you get to visit and chat with like minded souls
doing the same thing. Mike Moore is the resident Gauge1 coal firing expert.
You do pay very close attention to what is going on.  When Mike started a
couple of years ago, he had at least a half dozen different kinds of coal he
played with. He has found that not even all the Welsh coal is created equal.
Phil

> >Tony et al,
>
> No wonder I have been unable to thin Aster paint! Isn't Trichlorethylene
> used in some  cleaning sprays. I used to use it a lot which probably
> accounts for my condition today!
>  The (blank scale) Britannia ran very well as I actually took time to lay
a
> proper sized bed of charcoal and waited (impatiently) for it to burn to
the
> right color before adding the coal. The compressed venturi nozzle I
patched
> together worked much better for this loco than the blower fan ever did.
>
>  Of course, the fire making applies to the smaller (blank scales) as
> well!--Alto' I believe the smaller locos are more tricky to fire.
>
> Paint again--the toughest paint jobs I've ever seen on a loco are those of
> Tom Cooper's on the Merlins!
>
> Geoff.
>
>
>
> Hi Geoff,
> > You are correct again.
> >  I suggest one of Asters best kept secrets is their paint, prep and
> >applications methods. And certainly a standard other suppliers need to
> >equal. However Asters touch up paint as supplied, is too thick to blend,
> >and I understand that the only usable thinner is Trichlorethylene with
> >nasty fumes, not conducive to a long life!. It is, I believe now an OSHA
> >no-no in USA. I tried to obtain some, to touch up several hairline
> >scratches on a U1 for a friend of mine, but have not had any luck.
> >   Tony D.
> > 06:30 PM 7/31/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
> >>  Dear Tony et al,
> >>
> >>Tch, Tch
> >>
> >>You wrote:
> >>
> >> >  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight
> >> >glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!.
> >>
> >>Hope they didn't copy the paint job--you asked for it!
> >>
> >>You wrote again:
> >>
> >> >  I think a better improvement would have been if they had
replaced the
> >> >"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give
better
> >> >and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing
> >> >movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to
R/C.<<
> >>
> >>Absolutely!! my reverser on those screw jack locos is the hand of God!
> >>
> >>You wrote again, again:
> >>
> >> >  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does
this
> >> >have a drip sight glass also?<
> >>
> >>Yer right.but the drip sight glass?- I'm the only drip around here!
> >>
> >>More info when I get the loco and more pints!
> >>
> >>Stay with it List! Wonder how many are  getting the Flying Scotsman and
are
> >>there any comments--especially from you Brits or Aussies? who may
already
> >>have them up and steaming? I realise many of you have kits--I'm
deviating
> >>this time and getting the built-up.  It had better steam as well as my
> >>kits!!  Ho, Ho, you say
> >>
> >>Geoff.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

>Tony et al,

No wonder I have been unable to thin Aster paint! Isn't Trichlorethylene
used in some  cleaning sprays. I used to use it a lot which probably
accounts for my condition today!
 The (blank scale) Britannia ran very well as I actually took time to lay a
proper sized bed of charcoal and waited (impatiently) for it to burn to the
right color before adding the coal. The compressed venturi nozzle I patched
together worked much better for this loco than the blower fan ever did.

 Of course, the fire making applies to the smaller (blank scales) as
well!--Alto' I believe the smaller locos are more tricky to fire.

Paint again--the toughest paint jobs I've ever seen on a loco are those of
Tom Cooper's on the Merlins!

Geoff.



Hi Geoff,
> You are correct again.
>  I suggest one of Asters best kept secrets is their paint, prep and
>applications methods. And certainly a standard other suppliers need to
>equal. However Asters touch up paint as supplied, is too thick to blend,
>and I understand that the only usable thinner is Trichlorethylene with
>nasty fumes, not conducive to a long life!. It is, I believe now an OSHA
>no-no in USA. I tried to obtain some, to touch up several hairline
>scratches on a U1 for a friend of mine, but have not had any luck.
>   Tony D.
> 06:30 PM 7/31/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>>  Dear Tony et al,
>>
>>Tch, Tch
>>
>>You wrote:
>>
>> >  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight
>> >glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!.
>>
>>Hope they didn't copy the paint job--you asked for it!
>>
>>You wrote again:
>>
>> >  I think a better improvement would have been if they had replaced the
>> >"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give better
>> >and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing
>> >movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to R/C.<<
>>
>>Absolutely!! my reverser on those screw jack locos is the hand of God!
>>
>>You wrote again, again:
>>
>> >  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does this
>> >have a drip sight glass also?<
>>
>>Yer right.but the drip sight glass?- I'm the only drip around here!
>>
>>More info when I get the loco and more pints!
>>
>>Stay with it List! Wonder how many are  getting the Flying Scotsman and are
>>there any comments--especially from you Brits or Aussies? who may already
>>have them up and steaming? I realise many of you have kits--I'm deviating
>>this time and getting the built-up.  It had better steam as well as my
>>kits!!  Ho, Ho, you say
>>
>>Geoff.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
 You are correct again.
  I suggest one of Asters best kept secrets is their paint, prep and 
applications methods. And certainly a standard other suppliers need to 
equal. However Asters touch up paint as supplied, is too thick to blend, 
and I understand that the only usable thinner is Trichlorethylene with 
nasty fumes, not conducive to a long life!. It is, I believe now an OSHA 
no-no in USA. I tried to obtain some, to touch up several hairline 
scratches on a U1 for a friend of mine, but have not had any luck.
   Tony D.
 06:30 PM 7/31/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>  Dear Tony et al,
>
>Tch, Tch
>
>You wrote:
>
> >  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight
> >glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!.
>
>Hope they didn't copy the paint job--you asked for it!
>
>You wrote again:
>
> >  I think a better improvement would have been if they had replaced the
> >"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give better
> >and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing
> >movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to R/C.<<
>
>Absolutely!! my reverser on those screw jack locos is the hand of God!
>
>You wrote again, again:
>
> >  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does this
> >have a drip sight glass also?<
>
>Yer right.but the drip sight glass?- I'm the only drip around here!
>
>More info when I get the loco and more pints!
>
>Stay with it List! Wonder how many are  getting the Flying Scotsman and are
>there any comments--especially from you Brits or Aussies? who may already
>have them up and steaming? I realise many of you have kits--I'm deviating
>this time and getting the built-up.  It had better steam as well as my
>kits!!  Ho, Ho, you say
>
>Geoff.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Dear Tony et al,

Tch, Tch

You wrote:

>  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight
>glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!.

Hope they didn't copy the paint job--you asked for it!

You wrote again:

>  I think a better improvement would have been if they had replaced the
>"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give better
>and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing
>movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to R/C.<<

Absolutely!! my reverser on those screw jack locos is the hand of God!

You wrote again, again:

>  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does this
>have a drip sight glass also?<

Yer right.but the drip sight glass?- I'm the only drip around here!

More info when I get the loco and more pints!

Stay with it List! Wonder how many are  getting the Flying Scotsman and are
there any comments--especially from you Brits or Aussies? who may already
have them up and steaming? I realise many of you have kits--I'm deviating
this time and getting the built-up.  It had better steam as well as my
kits!!  Ho, Ho, you say

Geoff.






 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
 I knew we could twist the info from you sooner than later, and it did 
not cost us a pint!.
Are you losing your touch?.
 Scotsman:-
  Details sound good. Especially if they copied the sight 
glass/pressure gauge (gage) layout from my Duchess!. I also have a firebox 
visibility hole in my Aster U1, they just appear to have added the glass. I 
wonder how long it will take to smoke up with the alcohol flashback, and 
become "invisible"?.
  I think a better improvement would have been if they had replaced the 
"prototypical" reverser screw jack with a "quandrant lever" to give better 
and faster access for adjusting the cut-off and immediate reversing 
movement. Also would have helped considerably when converting to R/C. The 
current micrometer threaded reverser currently is too fiddly and slow. 
Especialy with a hot cab.
  I like the idea of "external" lubrication adjust feature. Does this 
have a drip sight glass also?. (I wish).
  So what other info does an actual pint buy us?.
  Have a very nice day, and happy steaming.
  Regards,
  Tony D.


09:52 AM 7/31/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>  Tony, you wrote, and I thankyou
>
> >As far as I am concerned, you can mention anything!.
> >Was very good to see you at Pleasanton and chat. Albeit too briefy.
> >Now if you had visited me on Monday, things would have been far different.
> >Tony D.  ( I agree--I still dream of your Duchess and your steaming
> >ability!!)
>
>  Now  for you and Jim Curry since you  asked:
>
> >> I thought you had already reviewed the Scotsman at Diamonhead?. So
>what extra bells and whistles are they adding which you have not seen?.
>  i.e. coal fired?,
>Hidden Safety valves,
>Operational Cylinder blow down valves?.
>Two corridor tenders with water scoops?
>BR Green version instead of LNER Apple green?,
>Smoke Deflectors?,
>Kylchap Smokestack?.
>Working running lamps?.
>R/C?.
>Rake of LNER Teak Coaches?.<<
>
>You wanna pay $1!!?
>
>Following is what I heard from  a friend in the UK: Incidentally, I didn't
>review the loco details closely  in DH--I took a photo, that's about all.
>
>
> >>The engine is everything I'd hoped for, and quite a bit more.
>The paintwork is a very good rendition of LNER green, not too glossy, and
>best viewed in natural daylight. There are several nice points I'd like to
>mention:
>- The engine has a very clear and sharp 6 exhaust beats for revolution
>- The engine has several really nice lost wax castings for brake lines,
>etc., that were not visible on the photos and on the preproduction model
>- The cab layout is superb, one of the nicest ASTER have done.  The sight
>glass is on the left, pressure gauge on the right, and the screw reverser
>set back enough to be easily controlled.  There are also 2 new features
>that the ASTER engineers have included in the cab, a valve to control the
>volume of steam oil to the cylinders, and a "glass" window into the firebox
>(nicely set into the firebox door) so you can see the fire.
>- A small, well concealed flap gives access to the conjugated valve gear
>for oiling.<<
>
>There you are, I can tell you no more or elaborate further! Until about two
>weeks time!!
>
>Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Tony, you wrote, and I thankyou

>As far as I am concerned, you can mention anything!.
>Was very good to see you at Pleasanton and chat. Albeit too briefy.
>Now if you had visited me on Monday, things would have been far different.
>Tony D.  ( I agree--I still dream of your Duchess and your steaming
>ability!!)

 Now  for you and Jim Curry since you  asked:

>> I thought you had already reviewed the Scotsman at Diamonhead?. So
what extra bells and whistles are they adding which you have not seen?.
 i.e. coal fired?,
   Hidden Safety valves,
   Operational Cylinder blow down valves?.
   Two corridor tenders with water scoops?
   BR Green version instead of LNER Apple green?,
   Smoke Deflectors?,
   Kylchap Smokestack?.
   Working running lamps?.
   R/C?.
   Rake of LNER Teak Coaches?.<<

You wanna pay $1!!?

Following is what I heard from  a friend in the UK: Incidentally, I didn't
review the loco details closely  in DH--I took a photo, that's about all.


>>The engine is everything I'd hoped for, and quite a bit more.
The paintwork is a very good rendition of LNER green, not too glossy, and
best viewed in natural daylight. There are several nice points I'd like to
mention:
- The engine has a very clear and sharp 6 exhaust beats for revolution
- The engine has several really nice lost wax castings for brake lines,
etc., that were not visible on the photos and on the preproduction model
- The cab layout is superb, one of the nicest ASTER have done.  The sight
glass is on the left, pressure gauge on the right, and the screw reverser
set back enough to be easily controlled.  There are also 2 new features
that the ASTER engineers have included in the cab, a valve to control the
volume of steam oil to the cylinders, and a "glass" window into the firebox
(nicely set into the firebox door) so you can see the fire.
- A small, well concealed flap gives access to the conjugated valve gear
for oiling.<<

There you are, I can tell you no more or elaborate further! Until about two
weeks time!!

Geoff






 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[James Curry]

Geoff:

>I also hear that it is an excellent model with features Aster has not
incorporated in previous models.<

Pray, tell us what new features, oh infirmed one.

Jim


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
 I thought you had already reviewed the Scotsman at Diamonhead?. So 
what extra bells and whistles are they adding which you have not seen?.
 i.e. coal fired?,
   Hidden Safety valves,
   Operational Cylinder blow down valves?.
   Two corridor tenders with water scoops?
   BR Green version instead of LNER Apple green?,
   Smoke Deflectors?,
   Kylchap Smokestack?.
   Working running lamps?.
   R/C?.
   Rake of LNER Teak Coaches?.

What did I miss out?.
Regards,
Tony D.



 At 06:28 PM 7/30/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>Thanks 'Arry,
>
>I also hear that it is an excellent model with features Aster has not
>incorporated in previous models.
>
>Ancient infirm--whoops!- informed Geoff.
>
> >At 04:43 PM 7/30/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >>Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered
> >
> >I hear whispers "they're on the boat."
> >hw
> >
>
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Anthony Dixon]

Hi Geoff,
As far as I am concerned, you can mention anything!.
Was very good to see you at Pleasanton and chat. Albeit too briefy. Now 
if you had visited me on Monday, things would have been far different.
Tony D.
At 04:43 PM 7/30/02 -0700, Geoff Spenceley wrote:
>What's the Buzz, tell me what's happening, What's the Buzz. Tell---
>
> From my favourite musical!
>
>Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered to purchasers in the
>US.  Are they held in the hands of Hans??? We are all at his mercy.
>
>Ancient, impatient Old Geoff.
>
>PS. I'm steaming my 3/4 Britannia tomorrow. Using that good Welsh coal too.
>---but I really shouldn't mention it on this list!
>
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

 Sure, not so far for the boat to go!! Believe they are on sale in the UK
too. Must be  the hands of Hans, he's not rowing fast enough!!.

Geoff.

They are on sale in Australia
>
>Jim G.
>At 06:50 PM 7/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 04:43 PM 7/30/02 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered
>>
>> I hear whispers "they're on the boat."
>>hw
>>
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Phil. Paskos]

Hi Olde Buddee;
I won't tell a soul.

Phil

> What's the Buzz, tell me what's happening, What's the Buzz. Tell---
>
> From my favourite musical!
>
> Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered to purchasers in
the
> US.  Are they held in the hands of Hans??? We are all at his mercy.
>
> Ancient, impatient Old Geoff.
>
> PS. I'm steaming my 3/4 Britannia tomorrow. Using that good Welsh coal
too.
> ---but I really shouldn't mention it on this list!
>
>

 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Alison & Jim Gregg]

They are on sale in Australia

Jim G.
At 06:50 PM 7/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 04:43 PM 7/30/02 -0700, you wrote:
> >Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered
>
> I hear whispers "they're on the boat."
>hw
>
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

Thanks 'Arry,

I also hear that it is an excellent model with features Aster has not
incorporated in previous models.

Ancient infirm--whoops!- informed Geoff.

>At 04:43 PM 7/30/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered
>
>I hear whispers "they're on the boat."
>hw
>


 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Harry Wade]

At 04:43 PM 7/30/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered

I hear whispers "they're on the boat."
hw
 

Re: Flying Scotsman

[Geoff Spenceley]

What's the Buzz, tell me what's happening, What's the Buzz. Tell---

>From my favourite musical!

Anyone know when the Flying Scotsman will be delivered to purchasers in the
US.  Are they held in the hands of Hans??? We are all at his mercy.

Ancient, impatient Old Geoff.

PS. I'm steaming my 3/4 Britannia tomorrow. Using that good Welsh coal too.
---but I really shouldn't mention it on this list!