Re: Plum vs Adalon?

; Robert Bailey > Internal Systems > Software Engineer > 813-230-9967 \\ mobile > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.recruitmax.com > > -Original Message- > From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:24 PM > To: CF-Talk >

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Don't you feel like an ass ? ;-) It is better to keep quiet and be considered a fool than to speak out and prove that. ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>Went back to my simple, basic architecture and felt much better. Don't you feel like an ass ? ;-) -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Tha

Re: [OT, Python Quote] Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

To be blunt and i've been on Plum since i think adam invited me ages past, I really dig the concept and cannot fault it for what its achieved. I do however hold back in reservation as simply put: I don't have the time or energy to inherit something ontop of a language that has its own set of prob

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> i dunno, go to myspace.com and do a few searches, that fusebox app rarely > runs right (or could be the developers) if at all. Dave: The fact that their app contains an extra switch/case or three over a non-FB app is unlikely to have any material impact on their uptime or performance. Assuming

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

Damn, I made the mistake of reading this one from the bottom up! I messed with FB a little, and it messed my mind up. Went back to my simple, basic architecture and felt much better. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and conve

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

s) if at all. > > > From: "Damien McKenna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:45 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon? > > Any web application will be slow on a 486 ;-) > >

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

i dunno, go to myspace.com and do a few searches, that fusebox app rarely runs right (or could be the developers) if at all. From: "Damien McKenna" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:45 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

ry 17, 2005 4:26 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon? > > now when i think of fusebox i think of myspace.com and thats > gotta be the worse performing cfm app i have ever seen. ~| Discover CFTicket

[OT, Python Quote] Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

"We are all individuals." "I'm not!" On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:59:35 +0800, James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Follow the gourd!" > > "No, Follow the sandal!" > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-ba

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

F-Talk Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon? >>I think you are just being an ass Sorry, but if you need insults to make your point, I won't follow you in that direction. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sorry, but if you need insults to make your point, I won't > follow you in > that direction. Ok Claude, no problem. Good luck. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and con

RE: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

"Follow the gourd!" "No, Follow the sandal!" ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.c

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>I think you are just being an ass Sorry, but if you need insults to make your point, I won't follow you in that direction. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm (Please send any spam to this addre

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > I just said I was upgrading a FB application. So at least I > have an example. > Does it take years to understand and know the principles of FB? > Then how can it help? Well it would seem that after 9 years of coding, when you encountered s

Re: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:23:26 -0500, Joe Rinehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Because my opinion doesn't match > yours is no reason to call me ignorant or uninformed. I have to say that Adam's habit of jumping on anyone who dares to criticize Plum is getting a bit tiring. I made some comments abou

Re: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:53:51 -0500, Adam Churvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The best way for everyone to assess this is to download and install Plum, > then thorooughly read the Plum documentation. Assuming you are running a Windows machine with .NET installed... -- Sean A Corfield -- http://ww

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>9 years, none of which touch on FB... so how can you justify making comments about the Framework? I just said I was upgrading a FB application. So at least I have an example. Does it take years to understand and know the principles of FB? Then how can it help? -- _

Re: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

I also tried Plum during the beta phase. I didn't like it...then again, I don't like lobster either. (and in both cases, I don't get all the hype) On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:23:26 -0500, Joe Rinehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You're missing 90% of Plum, Joe. > > Adam, you're very much underes

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

d ways to build a Fusebox application, but nor am I sold on Fusebox as a solution I would specifically choose. However, I would choose Fusebox over no framework/methodology. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Spike [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:33 PM To: CF-

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > The question is not being in favor or not. The question is > that the approach claims it will make the application easier > to follow, and I find the application much harder to follow. > Ok, "it is because the FB application was not properly

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> > > The question is not being in favor or not. The question is that the approach > claims > it will make the application easier to follow, and I find the application > much harder to follow. > Ok, "it is because the FB application was not properly structured", but isn't > FB supposed > to pr

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>Fusebox is a tool, like a hammer. Any tool is only >>worth the hands of its holder. With a hammer, it's just as easy to >>accidently destroy your thumb as it is to hammer in a nail. C'mon, fuses, circuits, now hammers,... enough with metaphors, periphases and parabolas ;-) If FB is like a ha

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

now when i think of fusebox i think of myspace.com and thats gotta be the worse performing cfm app i have ever seen. From: Joe Rinehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon? >

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>You can't discredit an application or the ability to easily follow it just bacause you are not in >>favor of the approach. The question is not being in favor or not. The question is that the approach claims it will make the application easier to follow, and I find the application much hard

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> > - when you look at the source code, find what's wrong, it > > takes hours to figure out which actual template the code comes from. Fusedocs exist for a reason. > That could stem from one of two things: a poorly structured FB application > or an uninformed developer in regards to FB. Right on

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > - too many files are included, Are you looking at FB4? The only included files there come from the circuit files or the parsed fuseactions which you do not directly access anyway so not sure how this is a valid point. > - templates names

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > This may very well be true, and this is exactly the trouble. > A good CF application, I'd say ANY application written in ANY > language, should be easily followed by any one who is good > enough in the language. I don't think you will find a

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

I understand your second point, whether it is valid or not is probably in the eye of the beholders. As far as Plum from what I gathered in the descriptions, it actually would be a well loved tool around here. Not necessarily by me, but by some of the people in this group. On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>just wondering if this is a case where if someone was then they could follow it easily. This may very well be true, and this is exactly the trouble. A good CF application, I'd say ANY application written in ANY language, should be easily followed by any one who is good enough in the language.

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>If the FB app is structured properly and you can read It is not the fact that the app is structured properly or not; As a matter of fact, I think it is. The problem is with the concept of the structure itself: it is sometimes 10 times more complicated than the whole application itself. - too

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:13:51 -0500, Joe Rinehart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is a complete aside, but shouldn't the "owner" of generated code > be the developer using it? As it is, every generated page comes out > "This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc." > I'm no

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> >As it is, every generated page comes out > >"This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc." > > Surely this cannot be true! Oversight on our part. The copyright should just appear in the pre-fabbed framework code. I don't think we have to get the Hague involved on this one

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> This is a complete aside, but shouldn't the "owner" of generated code > be the developer using it? As it is, every generated page comes out > "This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc." > I'm not sure if you meant to do this, but the legal implications of > this are enoug

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

I would agree with everything Joe says here. Plum certainly has it's place in the market. How big that place is I don't know, but I'm sure a lot of people will find it useful to them. Having written a few frameworks myself and used quite a few others I know what works for me and a fundamental r

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>As it is, every generated page comes out >"This code is Copyright (c) 2004 by Productivity Enhancement, Inc." Surely this cannot be true! >From my observation and in regards to past threads on Plum, it seems like they still cannot accurately say who they are targeting with this product. It surel

Re: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

> You're missing 90% of Plum, Joe. Adam, you're very much underestimating what I've done with Plum. I wouldn't talk about it if I hadn't looked at it in great detail. I've probably looked at the docs more extensively than most of your users, examined the custom tag library, used tools like the c

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> Plum does too much in the way of generating application code > and too little in the way of providing powerful APIs that can be extended... Ok, so Spike can say in one sentence what takes me a couple of paragraphs to try to hint at. -- For Tabs, Trees, and more, use the jComponents: http://cl

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

Adam, I'm not trying to attack Plum. If I was, I'd say something silly and offensive. My observations come after using Plum, trying it out, and taking some of its guts apart. > The way it works, > what it contains, how applications are organized, and how Plum applications > are written. The wa

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> > You can't use Plum in conjunction with Fusebox or any other > framework,as there would be no need. There is nothing that > another framework could add to what Plum already has. > That statement nicely sums up a couple of resons why I will probably never use Plum. In its current form at

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

Are you strongly familar with FB apps? I am not at all, just wondering if this is a case where if someone was then they could follow it easily. On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:50:35 -0500, Claude Schneegans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It is my case indeed, but not because the programmer was dummy, ju

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If the issue causes an error message, may be. > But for just an upgrade or an enhancement, is is 10 times > more complicated than it should. Again, I disagree. If the FB app is structured properly and you can read down through a circuit file,

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>I have never had a problem finding any errors in any >>FB code I have written. I always had problems find errors in my code, since I make no error ;-) >>As for maintenance, it depends on if you inherited the site It is my case indeed, but not because the programmer was dummy, just because

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>finding out where an issue is takes about 2 seconds. If the issue causes an error message, may be. But for just an upgrade or an enhancement, is is 10 times more complicated than it should. -- ___ REUSE CODE! Use custom tags; See http://www.contentbox.com/

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

- From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon? > From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > What bugs me with FB is that it takes hours just to figure > out in WHICH %$/"? template

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > What bugs me with FB is that it takes hours just to figure > out in WHICH %$/"? template is the piece of code you need to > modify. So if maintenance easiness was the concern, they > totally missed the point. This surprises me as maintenanc

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

rd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon? I can imagine that it would be tough for folks to commit to reading 400 pages of documentation to 'get' Plum :P -Original Message- From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EM

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

Yeap, I for one already have a ton of other things on my "todo" reading list. On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:15:36 -0500, Calvin Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I can imagine that it would be tough for folks to commit to reading 400 > pages of documentation to 'get' Plum :P > ~~

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

I can imagine that it would be tough for folks to commit to reading 400 pages of documentation to 'get' Plum :P -Original Message- From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:04 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon? > Bu

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

>>As far as I'm concerned, Fusebox is a much >>more comprehensive framework that Plum, in that Fusebox provides a >>structure for your application. May be,... but what if the structure is completely uncomprehensive? What bugs me with FB is that it takes hours just to figure out in WHICH %$/"?

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

ngorre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 1:04 PM Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon? > > But do take the time to really look through Plum's > > documentation to see all that it *can* do for you. > > > > If you don't have

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> But do take the time to really look through Plum's > documentation to see all that it *can* do for you. > > If you don't have the time to download and install Plum, you > can view Plum's documentation online: > > http://www.productivityenhancement.com/support/plumhelp/plumhelp.htm One nice t

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

ion Developers * ColdFusion MX Master Class * Advanced Development with CFMX and SQL Server 2000 - Original Message - From: "Joe Rinehart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon? > > > Plum

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> What is your (or your users') experience regarding migrating existing > Fusebox (v3) projects to Plum? I've got several fairly expansive > Fusebox3 applications that I've been considering re-doing anyway; I was > thinking of using Fusebox 4 but Plum is intriguing. We don't suggest that people t

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> > Plum uses Fusebox too?.. > > Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does. This is like comparing apples and oranges. Fusebox is a framework for organizing your application into logical segments, especially if you use it in an MVC manner. As far as I'm concerned, Fusebox i

Re: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

> How does the Plum framework compare to Fusebox 4.1 or Mach-II in terms > of functionality and extensibility of the core framework (excluding all > the extra modules, I'm thinking of the core)? Plum does quite a bit more in its core framework than either Fusebox or Mach-ii. The best way for ever

Re: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

> >From what I've seen Plum is basically a code generator. There's not > much of a framework to it. I diddled with it for a little while, and > the 'framework' is more a set of custom tags that make it easier to > build forms, do validation, master/detail pages, etc. Maybe I'm > missing somethin

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> If my memory serves me correctly, Adalon is a design tool that generates an > empty set of Fusebox files that have no real functionality -- you handcraft > all that yourself, if I'm not mistaken. Adalon does much more than generate Fusebox stubs. In fact, that's just the Fusebox plug-in for Ada

Re: Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

I may be off in some details, but it really doesn't. >From what I've seen Plum is basically a code generator. There's not much of a framework to it. I diddled with it for a little while, and the 'framework' is more a set of custom tags that make it easier to build forms, do validation, master/de

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

-Talk Subject: Re: Plum vs Adalon? > > From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does. > > Maybe so but the following for Fusebox is increasing daily... what are the > selling points for Plum that would pull someon

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> -Original Message- > From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Plum is the most comprehensive ColdFusion development tool and source code > generator ever built, hands down. To tell you everything that Plum does > would take up too much space for this email, so we prepared this

Plum vs Fusebox4.1/Mach-II (was "RE: Plum vs Adalon?")

> -Original Message- > From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > what are the selling points for Plum that would pull someone like myself > from Fusebox over to Plum or maybe not even over to but rather in addition > to? I guess another way of asking this would be: How do

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> > From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does. > > Maybe so but the following for Fusebox is increasing daily... what are the > selling points for Plum that would pull someone like myself from Fusebox > over to Plum or maybe not

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

PLUM is a framework in it's self whilst Adalon is simply a tool for generating a fusebox application by generating stub files etc and writing the circuit files for you. >From my understanding PLUM went a whole heap further than just writing stub >files for you, they're completely different ani

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

> From: Adam Churvis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does. Maybe so but the following for Fusebox is increasing daily... what are the selling points for Plum that would pull someone like myself from Fusebox over to Plum or maybe not even over

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> Has anyone done a comparison between Plum and Adalon? I'd be interested > to see how they compared. Adalon is a great tool that I think everyone should check out to see if it fits their needs. However, Plum and Adalon are two very different tools. If my memory serves me correctly, Adalon is a

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

> Plum uses Fusebox too?.. Plum has a much more comprehensive framework than Fusebox does. > I tried to run Plum on my machine and i miss a dll called mscoree.dll > someone can send me this dll?. You don't have the .NET Framework V1.1 installed. If you ever have a problem with Plum, use our sup

Re: Plum vs Adalon?

You need to install the .NET framework http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=316091 HTH, -- Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. - www.CoolFusion.com inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - The Award-winning, Intelligent Mail Server PrismAV - Virus scanning for ColdFusion appl

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

You need to download the .NET Framework for Plum to run. -Original Message- From: David Manriquez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 February 2005 15:01 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Plum vs Adalon? Mmmm... Plum uses Fusebox too?.. I tried to run Plum on my machine and i miss a dll

RE: Plum vs Adalon?

t; Asunto: Plum vs Adalon? > > Has anyone done a comparison between Plum and Adalon? I'd be > interested to see how they compared. > > -- > Damien McKenna - Web Developer - > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The Limu Company - http://www.

Plum vs Adalon?

Has anyone done a comparison between Plum and Adalon? I'd be interested to see how they compared. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include ~~