Sure - on CF Community.
This is a technical mailing list, not Oprah.
--
Shu Ha Ri: Agile and .NET blog
http://www.bifrost.com.au/
On 12 November 2011 08:16, Judah McAuley wrote:
>
> I don't know, Wil, I think that the topic of tone and tenor of
> responses to mailing lists (empathy vs correc
I don't know, Wil, I think that the topic of tone and tenor of
responses to mailing lists (empathy vs correctness in Rick's
terminology) is an excellent discussion for a community to have.
In general, I agree with Rick that empathy is a very positive trait to
bring to the table (in all aspects of
l Message-
> From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 5:37 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
>
>
> its hard to show empathy when people are rude and insult you simply
> because they don't
like, those can
also post any perspective they like, even "CF is dead!"
(or dying, or whatever.)
You guys make such a mountain out of a mole hill.
Grow up...
-Original Message-
From: Russ Michaels [mailto:r...@michaels.me.uk]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 5:37 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject:
ective, which cannot usually be proven wrong.
>
> People who mature learn to tell the difference
> and act appropriately.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:06 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject:
elor at the same time; it
just takes more maturity than most people can develop in a
lifetime.
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:06 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
> True, but I see almos
eded, rather than try to rebut someone's
personal perspective, which cannot usually be proven wrong.
People who mature learn to tell the difference
and act appropriately.
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:06 PM
To: cf-
-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 1:06 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
> True, but I see almost no empathy when people are expressing broader issue
concerns rather than
> issues of a tec
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Dave Watts wrote:
>
> Perhaps he's alone because he didn't ask anyone to help him. Did you
> volunteer to help him? I think Judah did in this very thread, so maybe
> the queue will move a bit faster.
That was actually .jonah (easy to get us confused) but I'll vo
> though now that has me wondering if dave could be paid to wear a black beret
> set
> at a rakish angle?
As a consultant, I can be paid to do almost anything. Almost.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned S
On 11/12/2011 1:05 AM, Dave Watts wrote:
> No one pays me to be a counselor. On here, no one pays me to be a
> technician either, so I reserve the right to answer questions as I see
> fit.
though now that has me wondering if dave could be paid to wear a black beret
set
at a rakish angle?
> True, but I see almost no empathy when people are expressing broader issue
> concerns rather than
> issues of a technical nature. Therein lies the clue to the correct response.
You want empathy? Go to a shrink or talk to your bartender.
On a free mailing list, the "correct" response is the o
...@figleaf.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 12:10 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
> Sometimes people just need to vent and not be corrected,
> and to have someone not necessarily say, "I agree", but
> "I understand where you're coming from.
> Sometimes people just need to vent and not be corrected,
> and to have someone not necessarily say, "I agree", but
> "I understand where you're coming from." Agree as much as
> you can, then let the rest go.
There is a time and a place for everything, I guess, but perhaps a
technical list is n
s can be "debugged" by making the
correct key strokes, or in this case, even perfectly correct
sociopathic arguments.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Will Swain [mailto:w...@hothorse.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:12 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devi
Hear! Hear!
This topic was boring 10 years ago and it's just as boring today.
> -Original Message-
> Someone is wrong on the Internet!
> Let's move on and let this thread die (until next year.)
~|
Order the Adobe Cold
Someone is wrong on the Internet!
Let's move on and let this thread die (until next year.)
--
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-austin/8/a4/60
Twitter: http://twitter.com/RogerTheGeek
Google+: https://plus.google.com/117357905892731200369
~
Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
>
> I would never call you a trool. Because I have a spell-checker.
Childish.
> Perhaps I'm being ungenerous, but that kind of response from you
> indicates to me that you don't take this seriously enough to engage
> your brain ce
What I always find most annoying about this topic when it comes up is
the basis on what such claims are made, usually the person saying
ColdFusion is dead/dying has absolutely no evidence or research to
back this up, it is just their own opinion.
In order to have basis for such a claim you would
I love you both and am forever grateful for all you do. I'll send
chocolates.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Dave Watts wrote:
>
> > Btw, Dave, if I haven't mentioned it recently, thank you for all you
> > do for the community and I definitely owe you a beverage of your
> > choice if we happ
> > 1. CFLib belongs to Ray.
>
> That doesn't mean he can't get help from the *assumed* CF community. He is
> alone because the small community does not
> have new blood. New blood carries the torch and keeps things moving. The
> 'old-timers' are too busy discussing OOP concepts
> -which is thei
>
> But now that you put it your way, yeah, I agree that I think you're a
> jerk.
>
> Cheers,
>Juda
Don't get so angry. My opinion should not be that important to you. ;-)
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http:/
>
> I would never call you a trool. Because I have a spell-checker.
Childish.
> Perhaps I'm being ungenerous, but that kind of response from you
> indicates to me that you don't take this seriously enough to engage
> your brain cells and actually read what was written.
More childish attack.
> Btw, Dave, if I haven't mentioned it recently, thank you for all you
> do for the community and I definitely owe you a beverage of your
> choice if we happen to find ourselves in the same part of the country
> at the same time one of these days.
You're no slouch yourself, so we can each buy the
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Dave Watts wrote:
>
> But that's not even an attack! It's just good advice! It's the same
> thing I'd tell anyone working with CF! Learning how other languages
> work makes you a better developer, even if you're going to just use CF
> most or all of the time.
And
> I never used the word "wins". That's your perception. And no, no language
> ever 'wins', but some DO die out, and
> that more like the argument that is often made about CF.
You did, however, state that CF didn't have the position it deserved.
What does that mean, outside the context of winners
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>
> I never used the word "wins". That's your perception. And no, no language
> ever 'wins', but some DO die out, and that more like the argument that is
> often made about CF.
Every language dies out. It is just a matter of time. Things chan
> Your post - which basically amounted to using 10 paragraphs to call me a
> trool - did not deserve much of an answer.
I would never call you a trool. Because I have a spell-checker.
Perhaps I'm being ungenerous, but that kind of response from you
indicates to me that you don't take this seriou
>
> Adobe will do what they will do. I don't really have any control over
> that, do you? Unless you're a secret majority shareholder, I'm
> guessing the answer is no.
>
I agree - we do not have any control over what Adobe does. But that doesn't
mean we can't have a little fun expressing and d
>
>
>I don't know how long you've been working with computers, Irvin, but
>no language "wins". We develop and evolve. The problems we try to
>solve change. We figure out new ways of tackling old problems. Best
>practices come and go.
>
I never used the word "wins". That's your perception. And no,
> And yes, it is Adobe's responsibility. It is Adobe's product.
>
> It's not up to teenagers to promote Nike. Nike has to pay the big names to
> promote Nike products, so that teenagers
> buy them. That's how it works in the real world.
>
> Yes, it is perfectly legitimate and reasonable to expect
I, for one, learned to get off Dave's lawn years ago :)
Btw, Dave, if I haven't mentioned it recently, thank you for all you
do for the community and I definitely owe you a beverage of your
choice if we happen to find ourselves in the same part of the country
at the same time one of these days.
> I wish the Pollyanna approach were productive, but it is not. If there are no
> new adopters of the language, it will die out. As simpe as that.
That is certainly true. However, there are new CF developers all the
time. I know, because my company hires people to do CF work. One nice
thing abou
>> The signs are everywhere: this list has very little "new blood".
well if he's going to go the anecdotal route, i have many "cf" people connect
to
me on FB, twitter & G+ that i've never heard of before & look to be pretty
young
(relative to me). to me that suggests some fresh meat er fresh
Your post - which basically amounted to using 10 paragraphs to call me a trool
- did not deserve much of an answer.
In any case, why 10 years?
>> Typical denial, mixed with a bunch of strawman arguments.
>
>That's one hell of a rebuttal. Let's reconvene on this ten years from now, ok?
>
~
If you truly believe what you say you would not criticize me because...I'm
criticizing others :-)
And yes, it is Adobe's responsibility. It is Adobe's product.
It's not up to teenagers to promote Nike. Nike has to pay the big names to
promote Nike products, so that teenagers buy them. That's
Will some one please pull the plug on the troll bait?
It is OT, counter productive an ENTIRELY unprofessional for technical
support forum. This is our face to the rest of the world. If you feel the
need to squabble, please take it to CF community.
G!
On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Irvin Gome
> You seem to think that web development is a "winner-take-all" market.
> But it isn't. There's room for plenty of web development languages.
> CF
> is one of those languages. Not everyone has to use CF for it to be a
> successful product. It just has to make money for Adobe.
>
I wish the Polly
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 8:45 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>
> The reason Coldfusion is dying a slow death has nothing to do with Coldfusion
> itself or its capabilities (I'm a convert, remember). Coldfusion is fine. The
> problem is one of perception: the overwhelming majority of people entering
> t
On 11/11/2011 8:36 AM, Raymond Camden wrote:
>
> To be clear - CFLib is slow to update because I'm 200% busy. If I
> didn't have work, I'd have more time for CFLib. To me, this is a good
> problem to have.
and so are his part-time helper elves.
~~
> Typical denial, mixed with a bunch of strawman arguments.
That's one hell of a rebuttal. Let's reconvene on this ten years from now, ok?
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Sc
> Why won't Adobe PAY
>
> ...
>
> No, I do not blog about ANYTHING. I'm too busy working to pay my bills - and
> yes, I use and love Coldfusion every day.
It's very easy to tell other people how they should spend their money, isn't it?
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
Typical denial, mixed with a bunch of strawman arguments.
> > I specifically mentioned you as an example of why Coldfusion is
> dying a very slow death: why are you the
> > one with all the responsibility? Where is the rest of the community
> these days?
>
> CFLib is Ray's "responsibility"
> The problem is one of perception: the overwhelming majority of people
> entering the programming arena will - rightfully
> so - go with .Net or PHP instead of Coldfusion. For a few very simple reasons:
>
> 1. They are more popular, especially PHP.
> 2. Because they are more popular, the person
>I think you'll find that all of the "powerful voices" in CF have been
>begging Adobe to do more for years.
>
Perhaps 'begging" is the wrong approach. Perhap they should tell Adobe - in a
clear manner - that Coldfusion is dying from pure neglect.
Why won't Adobe PAY some of the more knowledgea
> I specifically mentioned you as an example of why Coldfusion is dying a very
> slow death: why are you the
> one with all the responsibility? Where is the rest of the community these
> days?
CFLib is Ray's "responsibility" because it's his. It's not Adobe's.
It's not "the community's".
> How
>To give a littler perspective, Irvin, I'm hiring developers currently
>in one language and working on learning a couple others myself.
>
[...]
>Cheers,
>Judah
>
>On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>>
The reason Coldfusion is dying a slow death has nothing to do with Coldfusion
t CF stuff". I could ask though, do you blog about ColdFusion? :D
andy
-Original Message-
From: Irvin Gomez [mailto:ir...@pixel69.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 10:33 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
>To be clear - CFLib is slow to updat
>To be clear - CFLib is slow to update because I'm 200% busy. If I
>didn't have work, I'd have more time for CFLib. To me, this is a good
>problem to have.
>
>On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>>
I specifically mentioned you as an example of why Coldfusion is dying a very
slow
To give a littler perspective, Irvin, I'm hiring developers currently
in one language and working on learning a couple others myself.
Right now I'm in a .Net shop and hiring a dev or two for some
projects. A number of them are web apps that need:
MVC knowledge
IOC/DI container understanding
Soli
>>You asked for it, boy :-)
Excuse me?
G!
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>
> You asked for it, boy :-)
--
Gerald Guido
http://www.myinternetisbroken.com
-- We all shine on.
~|
Order the Adobe Cold
Ping me off list.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:40 PM, .jonah wrote:
>
> Can I/We help out any with CFLib? Train someone to help review? Knock
> off some updates/bugs?
>
> I'm *only* 195% busy and would be happy to chip in.
>
> .jonah
>
> On 11/10/11 5:36 PM, Raymond Camden wrote:
>> To be clear -
Beginner's issues are welcome here.
Just yesterday I posted the stupidest beginner's mistake and not
one person made fun of me!
At 06:44 PM 11/10/2011, you wrote:
>The sad part is that CF is dying because potential newcomers to the
>language do not have a thriving community with support for
Can I/We help out any with CFLib? Train someone to help review? Knock
off some updates/bugs?
I'm *only* 195% busy and would be happy to chip in.
.jonah
On 11/10/11 5:36 PM, Raymond Camden wrote:
> To be clear - CFLib is slow to update because I'm 200% busy. If I
> didn't have work, I'd have mo
To be clear - CFLib is slow to update because I'm 200% busy. If I
didn't have work, I'd have more time for CFLib. To me, this is a good
problem to have.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>
>>On 11/10/2011 8:39 AM, Gerald Guido wrote:
>>
>>> Wait.. does that mean that CF is unde
>Not this again.
>
You asked for it, boy :-)
~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive:
http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/
> > I know I'll be insulted, but the truth must be said: Coldfusion is
> dying a slow death ...
>
> I just hope that when it's my time to go, my death will be as slow.
>
Sincerely hope you are right and I'm wrong.
~|
Order t
Not this again.
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Bryan Stevenson <
br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote:
>
> hear hear Davebeen dying as long as I've been involvedso that's
> since January 1998oh yeah that's how I'm going out too ;-)
>
> On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 18:50 -0500, Dave Watts
hear hear Davebeen dying as long as I've been involvedso that's
since January 1998oh yeah that's how I'm going out too ;-)
On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 18:50 -0500, Dave Watts wrote:
> > I know I'll be insulted, but the truth must be said: Coldfusion is dying a
> > slow death ...
>
> I ju
> I know I'll be insulted, but the truth must be said: Coldfusion is dying a
> slow death ...
I just hope that when it's my time to go, my death will be as slow.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/
Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small B
>And on cue here comes the trolls.
>
>
>
>Wil Genovese
>
>One man with courage makes a majority.
>-Andrew Jackson
>
>A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
>
>On Nov 10, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>
>>
And the insults are on cue, too! ;-)
~
And on cue here comes the trolls.
Wil Genovese
One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
On Nov 10, 2011, at 5:44 PM, Irvin Gomez wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2011 8:39 AM, Gerald Guido wrote:
>>
>>> Wait.. does that m
>On 11/10/2011 8:39 AM, Gerald Guido wrote:
>
>> Wait.. does that mean that CF is undead? And part of the impending zombie
>> Apocalypse? Sweet!
>
CF is dying - no matter what the usual suspects say. The sad part is that CF is
dying because potential newcomers to the language do not have a thriv
On 11/10/2011 8:39 AM, Gerald Guido wrote:
> Wait.. does that mean that CF is undead? And part of the impending zombie
> Apocalypse? Sweet!
yeah, everybody seems to have missed the chance to really blow this into
another
cf is dead thing. the fact that it didn't get chopped that even under the
w the
> > masses have chosen to ignore that little fact. We're backing away from
> Flash
> > in-browser, but we're still hard at work on Flash for apps.
> >
> > --- Ben
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:
http://forta.com/blog/index.cfm/2011/11/9/Some-Thoughts-On-Flash-And-Devices
-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:br...@electricedgesystems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 7:07 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
I know Benit is
sday, November 09, 2011 2:29 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: RE: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
>
>
> Keep in mind Adobe AIR is still a perfectly valid option for Andriod,
> Blackberry, and iOS
>
> On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 14:07 -0500, Rick Faircloth wrote:
>
> > I&#x
I think that there would be some intentional obfuscation by other
parties regardless of how they announced it but I do also think that
the "Flash is dead" message comes across more clearly when the
announcement is coupled with a significant layoff announcement.
None the less, I'm really glad that
-- Ben
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:br...@electricedgesystems.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 2:29 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: RE: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
>
>
> Keep in mind Adobe AIR is still a perfectly valid op
nson [mailto:br...@electricedgesystems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 2:29 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Adobe drops Flsh for mobile devices
Keep in mind Adobe AIR is still a perfectly valid option for Andriod,
Blackberry, and iOS
On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 14:07 -0500, Rick Faircloth wrote:
> I'v
Here is the official announcement
http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2011/11/flash-focus.html
Wil Genovese
Sr. Web Application Developer/
Systems Administrator
CF Webtools
www.cfwebtools.com
wilg...@trunkful.com
www.trunkful.com
On Nov 9, 2011, at 1:29 PM, Bryan Stevenson wrote:
>
> Keep
>From the Adobe announcement on this
"Our future work with Flash on mobile devices will be focused on enabling Flash
developers to package native apps with Adobe AIR for all the major app stores.
We will no longer adapt Flash Player for mobile devices to new browser, OS
version or device confi
Keep in mind Adobe AIR is still a perfectly valid option for Andriod,
Blackberry, and iOS
On Wed, 2011-11-09 at 14:07 -0500, Rick Faircloth wrote:
> I've always disliked Flash... just too much work for
> too little return. And I made a living for awhile
> working on similar timelines in Adobe Pr
I've always disliked Flash... just too much work for
too little return. And I made a living for awhile
working on similar timelines in Adobe Premiere.
Goodbye, Flash! :o)
-Original Message-
From: Irvin Gomez [mailto:ir...@pixel69.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 12:14 PM
To: cf
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