Carroll Kong wrote:
However, in terms of sensible fairness, I do not see how having
years
of production experience is going to mean crap if you utilize
it
improperly or got little out of it. (think of the guy who
calls TAC
every other day, and now thinks that the config registers for
Well, even in THIS case it is far more reasonable. Documented
hours
of hard testing/working on networking gear in a lab by
Cisco. That
I would go for. Because, like I said 3 years of router rubbing
...
come on, I am sure you have had assignments which let you
demolish
that
Carroll Kong wrote:
I liked Howard's idea, however, yes it is not scalable, but
would
improve the quality. My other post suggested, Cisco has not
shown
any real attempt to make it that much harder, they do want more
CCIEs
out there. If that is what they want, nothing we do will
really
I think we're really approaching a discussion of operational
knowledge vs. technical knowledge. The young intern (and the ones
at the teaching hospital here really do look they're right out of
high school last week) has a lot of knowlege, and it isn't just
crammed into her head; it's
let's put it this way...there are ways of correlating medical
laboratory tests that I worked out on my own. Indeed, when I was
about 16, I came up with a hypothesis independently (but triggered by
an aside in a paper on something else) that;
(1) it would be clinically useful to be
At 11:19 AM -0400 6/29/03, Carroll Kong wrote:
I'm not quite sure where this is going to go, but as you may know,
I've worked pretty extensively in medicine, have developed expert
systems for diagnosis, etc. When you mentioned Doogie Howser, you
gave me several flashbacks to some very
I'm not quite sure where this is going to go, but as you may know,
I've worked pretty extensively in medicine, have developed expert
systems for diagnosis, etc. When you mentioned Doogie Howser, you
gave me several flashbacks to some very bright young interns that
don't necessarily have
At 4:56 AM + 6/28/03, Carroll Kong wrote:
I liked Howard's idea, however, yes it is not scalable, but would
improve the quality. My other post suggested, Cisco has not shown
any real attempt to make it that much harder, they do want more CCIEs
out there. If that is what they want, nothing
At 11:19 AM -0400 6/29/03, Carroll Kong wrote:
I'm not quite sure where this is going to go, but as you may know,
I've worked pretty extensively in medicine, have developed expert
systems for diagnosis, etc. When you mentioned Doogie Howser, you
gave me several flashbacks to some very
I think we're really approaching a discussion of operational
knowledge vs. technical knowledge. The young intern (and the ones
at the teaching hospital here really do look they're right out of
high school last week) has a lot of knowlege, and it isn't just
crammed into her head; it's
The point is that in any profession, somewhere along the line, somebody is
making an arbitrary decision. Medicine, law, you name it - somewhere along
the line an arbitrary decision is being made. To say that the CCIE
process
should be any different is really to hold the program to
Carroll Kong wrote:
Look, first of all, I'm obviously not endorsing that anybody
with x years of
experience are automatically handed a ccie number. They
would still have to
pass the test just like anybody else.
I trimmed down some of my extra fluff in the quote, sorry, just
read
douglas mizell wrote:
Jeez,
That is ridiculous, the program is run by Cisco, a
private
corporation. It is not a government entity and requiring those
types of
prerequisites makes no sense.
Well, to use that line of thought, why not just go all the way? Why require
any
Oh, but I thought corporate management can never be wrong.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of n
rf
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 6:48 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Jack Nalbandian wrote
David Vital wrote:
My frame of reference
must just be so dramatically different from a lot of the
other's here. I don't understand what all the griping is
about. I read a quote in an article the other day that just
rings totally true to me. Nobody is worth $200,000 a year.
NOBODY. If you
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
Oh, but I thought corporate management can never be wrong.
I never said that. Corporate management can indeed be wrong - but not for
long. Slowly but eventually, the free market adjusts.
For example, right now, what if Harvard all of a sudden got really easy -
easy
]
Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 01:48:01 GMT
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But then the next problem is how many years of experience is
considered valid?
Honestly, I do not think the number of years of experience
means that
much a fair number of the time. Why? Well, it depends on the
quality of the experience, in my book.
Advanced troubleshooting,
At 3:53 PM + 6/26/03, douglas mizell wrote:
Jeez,
That is ridiculous, the program is run by Cisco, a private
corporation. It is not a government entity and requiring those types of
prerequisites makes no sense. How do you quantify experience anyway?
Several ways. In an actual
But then the next problem is how many years of experience is
considered valid?
Honestly, I do not think the number of years of experience
means that
much a fair number of the time. Why? Well, it depends on the
quality of the experience, in my book.
Advanced troubleshooting,
dear n rf,
area you still in networking business, and are you a CCIE?
Just curious :)
Xy
- Original Message -
From: n rf
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
douglas mizell wrote:
not. I honestly cannot comment on the job
of a network.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of n
rf
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:59 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
That is anecdotal nonsense. Any major corporation in need
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
CCIEs with some experience are considered to have college
equivalent
experience and training as it pertains to technical know-how,
knowledge
that has proven to be crucial in the survival of a few
companies that I have
worked in. The companies did not care very
douglas mizell wrote:
Hi,
I don't normally participate in threads like this
but I could not
resist. Everything posted so far is probably correct and
necessary and would
apply generically to any job hunt. I have my lab scheduled for
October
(first attempt). I started this
: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:43 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
CCIEs with some experience are considered to have college
equivalent
experience and training as it pertains to technical know-how,
knowledge
that has proven
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
The consensus among all corporate managers that I have dealt
with is that
CCIEs cannot obtain their status with at least some real
experience. That
is the consensus. Don't shoot me for it.
\
Those corporate managers are wrong. They may want to look up the term
\
I just don't believe that you can not
find a job if you are experienced and certified. It might not
be your dream job. it might not pay as much as you thought you
would be making now. And it might require you to relocate.
But there are jobs out there.
The issue is not finding a
n rf wrote:
Therefore when people say there are no jobs, they don't mean
that there are literally no jobs, they mean that the overall
quality of the jobs has declined dramatically (something which
I doubt anybody will seriously dispute) such that other options
look mighty attractive by
anecdotal.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Zsombor Papp
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Based on anecdotal evidence I've seen on this list before, I can give you
rate is in
the D/FW area of Texas for a CCIE... So I can't comment on such.
-Mark
-Original Message-
From: n rf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
- jvd wrote:
I wonder
: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
- jvd wrote:
I wonder if anybody is going to have anything positive to say
about this post?
So basically, you want us to lie, eh? ;-.
Seriously, CCIE salaries have been down
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
n
rf
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
- jvd wrote:
I wonder if anybody is going to have anything positive to say
about this post?
So basically
douglas mizell wrote:
not. I honestly cannot comment on the job market at home except
to say it
sounds dismal, if there really are CCIE's out there fighting
over $35K jobs
than to hell with this whole idea, open a taco stand.
Which is why a growing number of them are leaving the industry.
Jack Nalbandian wrote:
That is anecdotal nonsense. Any major corporation in need of
real techs and
that has a Cisco infrastructure will certainly consider CCIEs
very
seriously, yes even above so-called CS degree holders without
much
experience, for technical lead positions. I can bring
Carroll Kong wrote:
Even NRF has mentioned diversity is the key,
Even me, eh? Ouch.
Message Posted at:
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--
FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
Just the same as the subject,anyone who know it please tell!Thank u!
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=71143t=71143
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Report
Never enough ;)
Dave
james kong wrote:
Just the same as the subject,anyone who know it please tell!Thank u!
--
David Madland
CCIE# 2016
Sr. Network Engineer
Qwest Communications
612-664-3367
Government can do something for the people only in proportion as it
can do something to the people.
I wonder if anybody is going to have anything positive to say about this post?
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=71177t=71143
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- jvd wrote:
I wonder if anybody is going to have anything positive to say
about this post?
So basically, you want us to lie, eh? ;-.
Seriously, CCIE salaries have been down for awhile and any honest discussion
about salaries is going to be necessarily negative. When something's black,
area of Texas for a CCIE... So I can't comment on such.
-Mark
-Original Message-
From: n rf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
- jvd wrote:
I wonder if anybody is going to have anything
rf
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
- jvd wrote:
I wonder if anybody is going to have anything positive to say
about this post?
So basically, you want us to lie, eh? ;-.
Seriously, CCIE salaries have been down
Theres a survey link on www.tcpmag.com, check it out.
Bri
- Original Message -
From: james kong
To:
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 8:51 AM
Subject: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
Just the same as the subject,anyone who know it please tell!Thank u!
Message Posted
for a CCIE... So I can't comment on such.
-Mark
-Original Message-
From: n rf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 7:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: how about ccie salary in US? [7:71143]
- jvd wrote:
I wonder if anybody is going to have anything positive to say
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