Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jul 3, 2005, at 10:50 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: wasn't it Andrew who was complaining about "verbifying" nouns (the term itself is an example) sometime last year? I tend to be an extreme latitudinarian in linguistic matters. Ha! I stand corrected, quite obviously! 8-) Christopher _

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jul 2, 2005, at 9:26 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: It used to be applied only to the i chord in a minor key, at a cadence. But the effect shows up so much more often that it can be used on pretty much any normally-minor chord, though traditional theorists might not apply the term "Picardy"

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

wasn't it Andrew who was complaining about "verbifying" nouns (the term itself is an example) sometime last year? Christopher Certainly not! That's one of the glories of the language. I tend to be an extreme latitudinarian in linguistic matters. I'll even grit my teeth and concede "nucula

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jun 30, 2005, at 2:44 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 30 Jun 2005 at 0:14, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 11:34 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I don't know of anyone who uses "subdominant" to refer to ii, for instance. They may talk about "subdominant function" chords, or the gro

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Has anyone mentioned the term "sesquialtera"? _New Grove_ again, article "Hemiola": from Gk. hemiolios: 'the whole and a half'; Lat. sesquialtera). In early music theory, the ratio 3:2. In terms of musical pitch, when the string of the monochord was divided in this ratio the two lengths sounded

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jul 1, 2005, at 1:35 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Well, I'm concerned about the idea that you would assume that Lully wrote anything at all in 3/4. I don't know of any French music from that period in which modern 3/4 occurs in the original sources, nor any time signature with a 6 in it. It'

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jul 1, 2005, at 12:08 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: On Jun 30, 2005, at 9:55 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: And "hemiolated" sounds like something you'd need Preparation H for! ;) Well I do confess it is a googlewhackblat (the first I ever personally encountered)--but you had no trouble under

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

From Technoid: On 6/30/05, Harold Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello folks. Has anyone mentioned the term "sesquialtera"? One source i have says "IIn Hispanic Music, it may refer to the mixture of duple and triple time within groups of six quavers (eighth notes)." Sesquialtera is also

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On 1 Jul 2005 at 11:19, Andrew Stiller wrote: [I wrote:] > > I *do* see a problem with calling something a hemiola that is > > EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what a hemiola actually is. > > Of two examples given in the relevant _New Grove_ article, the second > (from Lully) is of the type you call "reve

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 30, 2005, at 9:55 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I have the score in front of me. He writes it as "6/8 (3/4)" with the header "Tempo di Huapango (fast)." The beaming of the hemiolated (3/4) measures is inconsistent. Ack!!! Andrew! How can someone who is so particular about terminology get

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On 6/30/05, Harold Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello folks. > > Has anyone mentioned the term "sesquialtera"? One source i have says > "IIn Hispanic Music, it may refer to the mixture of duple and triple > time within groups of six quavers (eighth notes)." Sesquialtera is also an organ stop

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

I *do* see a problem with calling something a hemiola that is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what a hemiola actually is. Of two examples given in the relevant _New Grove_ article, the second (from Lully) is of the type you call "reverse hemiola," and is characterized in the text as "an instance of

(Fwd) Re: Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the origin

On 30 Jun 2005 at 13:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > >> Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord > >> built on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant > > If this is true, then do you call the 7th a sub-t

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 30 Jun 2005 at 11:35, Andrew Stiller wrote: > > (the "I want to live in America" effect > > The actual line is "I like to be in America." That was my memory misfire. > > I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one > > combined time signature 6/8 and 3/4 and think tha

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Hello folks. Has anyone mentioned the term "sesquialtera"? One source i have says "IIn Hispanic Music, it may refer to the mixture of duple and triple time within groups of six quavers (eighth notes)." Hal Owen -- Harold Owen 2830 Emerald St., Eugene, OR 97403 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit m

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On 30 Jun 2005 at 9:20, Christopher Smith wrote: > On Jun 30, 2005, at 12:54 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: > > > On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > >> Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built > >> on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant >

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On 30 Jun 2005 at 0:14, Christopher Smith wrote: > On Jun 29, 2005, at 11:34 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > > > >> On 29 Jun 2005, at 9:28 PM, Raymond Horton wrote: > > > >>> The work in question is most definitely in two groups of 3 beats > >>> each (although it often hemiolas into 3/2 temporar

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Richard wrote: If someone says to me "sub-dominant" within a music discussion, I will take that to mean the pitch just BELOW the Dominant or the 4th pitch in the scale. but the original meaning of "sub-dominant" was the "dominant (fifth) below the tonic". The fact that it happens to be t

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jun 30, 2005, at 1:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant If this is true, then do you call the 7th a sub-tonic ?

Re: Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

> On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > >> Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built >> on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant > If this is true, then do you call the 7th a sub-tonic ? Call me aa A-retentive tradionalist, but I believe th

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Andrew Stiller wrote: > > > The beaming of the hemiolated (3/4) > measures is inconsistent. Just conducted WSS last fall. It is "6/8 (3/4)". Yes, it is irregular in spots but it plays itself. Only a few spots where it isn't one then the other, and those are easily pointed out in rehearsal. I cond

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jun 30, 2005, at 12:32 PM, Phil Daley wrote: >>> On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: >>> Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant >>> >>> Really? I only know the term as referring to

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

>>> On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: >>> Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant >>> >>> Really? I only know the term as referring to the chord built on the >>> 4th of the scale. >>> >

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Andrew Stiller schrieb: Sorry, I misread your post to mean the opposite of what it actually said. Ah, now it makes sense. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://l

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Andrew Stiller wrote: The beaming of the hemiolated (3/4) measures is inconsistent. Well, that's consistent with the utter mess of the hand-scrawled parts that I've played off! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jun 30, 2005, at 11:39 AM, Andrew Stiller wrote: Some of my colleagues have replaced this term with "Predominant" to be more clear. Christopher Is that the predominant opinion? Ooh, TWO puns aimed my way in less than twelve hours! I love it! Christopher (hoping to convert the worl

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Some of my colleagues have replaced this term with "Predominant" to be more clear. Christopher Is that the predominant opinion? Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

(the "I want to live in America" effect The actual line is "I like to be in America." I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one combined time signature 6/8 and 3/4 and think that that was pretty clear.  It seems cluttered to change time signatures every measure for som

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Yes, I realise that, just as there are many more "dominants" available than the one built on the 5th degree (speaking of both dominant function and dominant quality). Some of these concepts have grown so much that they deserve their own terms. Like the bVII dominant7 chord resolving to I in ja

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

I am obviously stupid, but can someone explain to me what this means, and in what way it is an example for 6/4 being 3x2/4? The poem seems to be in 2x3/4. Johannes Sorry, I misread your post to mean the opposite of what it actually said. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.n

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Well, if you think of it as a subdominant *function* it's not so very wrong. In a similar way vii serves a dominant function. Ken At 09:54 PM 6/29/2005, you wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built on it

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Chuck Israels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > >> (the "I want to live in America" effect > > I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one > combined time signature 6/8 and 3/4 and think that that was pretty > clear. I'v

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Darcy James Argue / 2005/06/30 / 01:38 AM wrote: >and neither you nor George raised any objections. Are you saying we have met before?!! Oh, this is embarrassing. How come you never mentioned it?! -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jun 30, 2005, at 12:54 AM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant Really? I only know the term as referring to the chord built on th

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 30, 2005, at 1:07 AM, Chuck Israels wrote: Christopher Smith / 2005/06/29 / 06:00 PM wrote: Just to thoroughly discredit my own argument, though, here are two exceptions. There are two pieces of common repertoire which are ordinarily written in 6/8 (divided 3+3) with swing SIXTEENTHS

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Mark D Lew wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant Really? I only know the term as referring to the chord built on the 4th of the scale. It's n

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:14 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Subdominant (used to mean the 4th of the scale, or the chord built on it. Now means ANY chord that can lead to a dominant Really? I only know the term as referring to the chord built on the 4th of the scale. So you're telling me that a

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 30 Jun 2005, at 1:38 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: The shift is subtle and deceptive -- I'm sure intentionally so. You are so familiar with the chart after all these years, it may be hard for you to put yourself in the position of hearing it for the first time. Keep in mind when the first 6

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 30 Jun 2005, at 12:57 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Darcy James Argue / 2005/06/29 / 07:21 PM wrote: The reason the switch between 4/4 and 3/2 in the published version of "All About Rosie" is confusing because while the 4/4 sections are notated to reflect what the drums are doing, the 3/2 section

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 30, 2005, at 12:57 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: If you say Miles, I can't keep my mouse shut :-) Nice pun! Very impressive, and not in your mother tongue! The melody, to me, clearly dictates 6/8, while he does solo in 6/4 groove later, the head/theme pattern is 6/8 with dotted Q subdivi

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Christopher Smith / 2005/06/29 / 06:00 PM wrote: Just to thoroughly discredit my own argument, though, here are two exceptions. There are two pieces of common repertoire which are ordinarily written in 6/8 (divided 3+3) with swing SIXTEENTHS - "All Blues" by Miles Davis, and "Better Get Hit in Your

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Darcy James Argue / 2005/06/29 / 07:21 PM wrote: >The reason the switch between 4/4 and 3/2 in the published version of >"All About Rosie" is confusing because while the 4/4 sections are >notated to reflect what the drums are doing, the 3/2 sections are >notated to reflect what the bass is doing

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

It is quite proper to use a 3/2 bar in the middle of a 4/4 work, using a quarter note pulse, with the intention of keeping the quarter note pulse but the 3/2 divided 2+2+2. This is done quite correctly and frequently, not constantly. But that does not keep it from being very confusing to the

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On Jun 29, 2005, at 11:34 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2005, at 9:28 PM, Raymond Horton wrote: The work in question is most definitely in two groups of 3 beats each (although it often hemiolas into 3/2 temporarily). That's not the right meaning of hemiola. A hemiola is: W W

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

You are correct that the question was answered, once, but I was hoping for a consensus. Thanks for the summary. RBH Darcy James Argue wrote: On 29 Jun 2005, at 9:28 PM, Raymond Horton wrote: And, so far, my question hasn't been answered with any degree of consensus by the experts on this

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On 29 Jun 2005 at 23:15, Darcy James Argue wrote: [nothing I'm quoting here, but I can't find the original post, but wanted to respond to something Raymond said] > On 29 Jun 2005, at 9:28 PM, Raymond Horton wrote: > > The work in question is most definitely in two groups of 3 beats > > each (alt

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

On 29 Jun 2005, at 9:28 PM, Raymond Horton wrote: And, so far, my question hasn't been answered with any degree of consensus by the experts on this fine list during this gentle mayhem that has ensued from the original question. Actually, way back at the beginning, Johannes answered your orig

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 9:57 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: (the "I want to live in America" effect I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one combined time signature 6/8 and 3/4 and think that that was pretty clear.  It seems

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

At 10:13 PM 06/29/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: >On 29 Jun 2005 at 18:57, Chuck Israels wrote: > >> On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: >> >> > (the "I want to live in America" effect >> >> I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one >> combined time signatu

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Even more simple than I suggested and all the better. Chuck On Jun 29, 2005, at 7:23 PM, Ken Durling wrote: IIRC, it's written in 6/8 with straight quarters on "me-ri-ca" Ken At 06:57 PM 6/29/2005, you wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: (the "I want to live in

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

IIRC, it's written in 6/8 with straight quarters on "me-ri-ca" Ken At 06:57 PM 6/29/2005, you wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: (the "I want to live in America" effect I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one combined time signature 6/

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

At 09:28 PM 06/29/2005, Raymond Horton wrote: >I just wasn't certain, in 6/4, whether five beats rest should generally >be a dotted half plus two quarters or a dotted half plus a half. The >latter is easy to read, but I suspect that Johannes is indeed on target >with his asstertion that the forme

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Chuck Israels wrote: On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: (the "I want to live in America" effect I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one combined time signature 6/8 and 3/4 and think that that was pretty clear. It seems cluttered to change ti

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 18:57, Chuck Israels wrote: > On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > (the "I want to live in America" effect > > I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one > combined time signature 6/8 and 3/4 and think that that was pretty > clea

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:45 PM, David W. Fenton wrote:(the "I want to live in America" effect I don't remember how Bernstein wrote this, but I'd write it with one combined time signature 6/8 and 3/4 and think that that was pretty clear.  It seems cluttered to change time signatures every measure for s

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 20:56, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 29 Jun 2005, at 8:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > Well, it depends on CONTEXT, which I've said all along. > > No, you did not. > > What you originally wrote was: > > > 6/4 has always been a 2-beat measure, just like 6/8. > > > > If tha

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

The work in question is most definitely in two groups of 3 beats each (although it often hemiolas into 3/2 temporarily). I just wasn't certain, in 6/4, whether five beats rest should generally be a dotted half plus two quarters or a dotted half plus a half. The latter is easy to read, My

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

Raymond Horton wrote: My, we've really explored many sides of the 6/4 meter issue since I posted my question late last night! I think we've settled that: in general, 6/4 should divide in the middle, 3/2 should divide in threes, just as 6/8 and 3/4 do. There are exceptions, but the general rul

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? - back to the original question, please!

My, we've really explored many sides of the 6/4 meter issue since I posted my question late last night! I think we've settled that: in general, 6/4 should divide in the middle, 3/2 should divide in threes, just as 6/8 and 3/4 do. There are exceptions, but the general rule should hold. The ar

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 7:41 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I remember now seeing that in the score you lent me! And the 4/4 bars were in cut time, so it sort of made sense, in a swing-era kind of way I just saw your post, Darcy, about it being in 3/2 AND 4/4, which I agree, is odd, and no doubt

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005, at 8:39 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Well, it depends on CONTEXT, which I've said all along. No, you did not. What you originally wrote was: 6/4 has always been a 2-beat measure, just like 6/8. If that were not the case, there'd be no reason for either meter to exist at all,

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 30 Jun 2005 at 1:21, Owain Sutton wrote: > David W. Fenton wrote: > > But this is because I recognize only two valid interpretations for > > 6/4, 2/H. and 6/Q -- and my reason for eliminating 3/H is because I > > can't see a reason for using 6/4 to indicate what 3/2 clearly > > indicates withou

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 19:35, Christopher Smith wrote: > On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:37 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > > Well, time signatures suck, too. 3/H or 2/H. make much more sense. > > Then you could also have 6/Q being its own separate meter, rather > > than in our system where 6/Q and 2/H. are ind

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 18:55, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 29 Jun 2005, at 6:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > I infer from what you've wrote above about 6/8 and 3/4 that you > > agree that a piece that never switches to 2 groups of 3 8ths should > > not be notated as 6/8. I therefore think that it

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 19:21, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 29 Jun 2005, at 6:57 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > If 4/4 is not 2x2/4 (and it's not), then I don't think it's write to > > say that the passage you're talking about is 3x2/4. If it *is*, then > > 3/2 (which is 3/H) is completely appropria

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

David W. Fenton wrote: But this is because I recognize only two valid interpretations for 6/4, 2/H. and 6/Q -- and my reason for eliminating 3/H is because I can't see a reason for using 6/4 to indicate what 3/2 clearly indicates without the confusion of the compound time signature. But w

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 23:49, Owain Sutton wrote: > David W. Fenton wrote: > > > Are you really talking about notation there? What I mean by that is > > that isn't the musical content coming before the writing down? > > Should the musical content not always be the priority?! Yes, and the notation s

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:46 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I don't think 6 quarter notes is at all the same thing as 3x2/4 or 2x3/4, any more than 4/4 is indistinguishable from two measures of 2/4. I agree, but sometimes convenience... If you use 6/4 to mean 6/Q, then it makes perfect sense to

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:40 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 29 Jun 2005, at 6:00 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I could cite a couple of examples of jazz 6/4 without a clear 3+3 subdivision, but I wouldn't think they would mean much except to specialists familiar with the repertoire. "All About R

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:37 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Well, time signatures suck, too. 3/H or 2/H. make much more sense. Then you could also have 6/Q being its own separate meter, rather than in our system where 6/Q and 2/H. are indistinguishable without some kind of understanding of a tradition,

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005, at 6:57 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: If 4/4 is not 2x2/4 (and it's not), then I don't think it's write to say that the passage you're talking about is 3x2/4. If it *is*, then 3/2 (which is 3/H) is completely appropriate. That you say it is not proves that it's not in 3x2/4, but 6x1

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 18:40, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 29 Jun 2005, at 6:00 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > I could cite a couple of examples of jazz 6/4 without a clear 3+3 > > subdivision, but I wouldn't think they would mean much except to > > specialists familiar with the repertoire. "All

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005, at 6:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: I infer from what you've wrote above about 6/8 and 3/4 that you agree that a piece that never switches to 2 groups of 3 8ths should not be notated as 6/8. I therefore think that it should be logical that you would agree that 6/4 would likewise n

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 23:23, Owain Sutton wrote: > David W. Fenton wrote: > > On 29 Jun 2005 at 21:46, d. collins wrote: > > > >>David W. Fenton écrit: > >> > >>>Maybe I have insufficient imagination. > >> > >>I haven't followed the whole thread, but, speaking of tradition, > >>let's not forget that

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

David W. Fenton wrote: Are you really talking about notation there? What I mean by that is that isn't the musical content coming before the writing down? Should the musical content not always be the priority?! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shs

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 18:15, Christopher Smith wrote: > On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:04 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > On 29 Jun 2005 at 15:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: > >> - but > >> there are many excellent reasons why someone would choose 6/4 over > >> 3/2 for a piece in 3 half-note beats. > > > > Non

RE: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 30 Jun 2005 at 8:12, keith helgesen wrote: > And because it makes no sense to you it is therefore wrong?- or > proponents thereof are "borderline incompetent? The message you made this reply to did not include that term in it. I have seen no one offering as an example any music that meets the

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005, at 6:00 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: I could cite a couple of examples of jazz 6/4 without a clear 3+3 subdivision, but I wouldn't think they would mean much except to specialists familiar with the repertoire. "All About Rosie" by George Russell is one Actually, in the publis

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 18:00, Christopher Smith wrote: > On Jun 29, 2005, at 3:22 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > > If the meter is 6/4 and the subdivision is 3x2/4, then I'd say that > > the meter is wrong, not "uncommon." > > OK, you lost my support there. I see LOTS of divisions of all kinds of >

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2005 at 21:46, d. collins wrote: David W. Fenton écrit: Maybe I have insufficient imagination. I haven't followed the whole thread, but, speaking of tradition, let's not forget that of the French courante, where 6/4 (and 3/2) is used for _alternating_ pat

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 16:36, Andrew Stiller wrote: > > 'd be interested to know about any piece in 6/4 before 1850 which is > > clearly 3x2/4, do you know one? > > > > Johannes > > -- > > William Billings: "Modern Music." The text of the 6/4 section > addresses the issue directly, and makes it clea

RE: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

ECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2005 3:49 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? On 29 Jun 2005 at 13:20, Aaron Sherber wrote: > At 12:58 PM 06/29/2005, David W. Fenton wrote: > >Why would anyone use a 6 for 3 beats

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 6:04 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2005 at 15:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: - but there are many excellent reasons why someone would choose 6/4 over 3/2 for a piece in 3 half-note beats. None of the musical training or musical experience I've had anywhere in my life

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 21:46, d. collins wrote: > David W. Fenton écrit: > >Maybe I have insufficient imagination. > > I haven't followed the whole thread, but, speaking of tradition, let's > not forget that of the French courante, where 6/4 (and 3/2) is used > for _alternating_ patterns of 2x3/4 and

RE: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2005 3:15 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? On 29 Jun 2005 at 13:12, Phil Daley wrote: > At 6/29/2005 12:58 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > >On 29 Jun 2005 at 3:59, Darcy James Argue wrote: > > > >> I didn't rea

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 15:45, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 29 Jun 2005, at 3:32 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > Would you use 6/8 for measures with 3 quarter-note beats? > > Yes, of course. This happens all the time in Afro-Cuban and South > American music. Usually, it's shifting . . . That is,

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 15:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 29 Jun 2005, at 3:20 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > Question: do you think a piece in 3 half-note beats should correctly > > be notated in 6/4? > > I would distinguish between "should" and "could." Such a piece might > be better written in

RE: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Johannes Gebauer Sent: Wednesday, 29 June 2005 7:45 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4? keith helgesen schrieb: > I would query your assertion that 6/4 "traditionally" is 2 X 3/4. >>From m

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 3:45 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 03:32 PM 06/29/2005, Christopher Smith wrote: >This is why I like modern time signatures like > >3+2 >Q. > >(that's 3+2 over a dotted quarter) > >for 10/8. I've read this over a couple of times, and I still don't get it. Wouldn't that be 3

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 3:22 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: If the meter is 6/4 and the subdivision is 3x2/4, then I'd say that the meter is wrong, not "uncommon." OK, you lost my support there. I see LOTS of divisions of all kinds of things these days (and write them, too!) but wouldn't call them

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 11:48, John Howell wrote: > I think that what he provided (or someone in his circle did) an > actual notational means to indicate duple subdividion called > "coloration," literally done by switching to red ink for the duple > passages, and after white notation caught on in the

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

I am obviously stupid, but can someone explain to me what this means, and in what way it is an example for 6/4 being 3x2/4? The poem seems to be in 2x3/4. Johannes Andrew Stiller schrieb: 'd be interested to know about any piece in 6/4 before 1850 which is clearly 3x2/4, do you know one? Jo

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

'd be interested to know about any piece in 6/4 before 1850 which is clearly 3x2/4, do you know one? Johannes -- William Billings: "Modern Music." The text of the 6/4 section addresses the issue directly, and makes it clear that compound 6/4 was commonplace: "Through common and treble we

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

At 7:31 AM -0700 6/29/05, Ken Durling wrote: At 07:16 AM 6/29/2005, you wrote: There are mensural pieces, perhaps as early as the 13th century but certainly by the 14th, for which the original notation and the relations between tempus and prolatio have to be resolved when transcribing into mod

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 3:01 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: There is no inherent or logical reason why 6/4 can't be 3x2/4, and in contemporary writing it's frequently used that way (especially at slower tempos). The beam and rest patterns will immediately make it clear whether 3x2/4 or 2x3/4 is i

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On Jun 29, 2005, at 2:20 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2005 at 13:29, Christopher Smith wrote: The piece was in a medium 4/4, but at one point we needed an extra two beats (two half notes turned into a half and a whole) so rather than insert a measure of 2/4 and screw up everyone's bar

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005, at 3:32 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Would you use 6/8 for measures with 3 quarter-note beats? Yes, of course. This happens all the time in Afro-Cuban and South American music. Usually, it's shifting between subdivisions of 2 and 3 within the 6/8 bar, but sometimes there can

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

At 03:32 PM 06/29/2005, Christopher Smith wrote: >This is why I like modern time signatures like > >3+2 >Q. > >(that's 3+2 over a dotted quarter) > >for 10/8. I've read this over a couple of times, and I still don't get it. Wouldn't that be 3 dotted quarters + 2 dotted quarters, or 5 dotted qua

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005, at 3:20 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Oh come off of it. I recently wrote a piece in a slow (q=72) 6/4, subdivided in three -- mostly. However, it frequently alternates between bars of 6/4 and 4/4, or 5/4, or 7/4. It would have made absolutely no sense to use 3/2 for this, for an

Re: [Finale] half rests in 6/4?

On 29 Jun 2005 at 14:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: > On 29 Jun 2005, at 1:48 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > > OK, fine, but that's not 3 beats per measure. I was responding to > > Darcy's remarks that he wasn't familiar with 6/4 used as anything > > but 3 beats per measure. > > David, that's not

  1   2   >