Luke I have limited experience with Sony md's. I heard one in a store
playing some RB. But I have an 831 and my coworker have a 722 and we both
love sharp's quality. I listen to Classical, Rock, Pop, alternative, and a
little rap and the highs and bass and overall quality of the sound is near
cd
* "Matthew Wall" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 08 May 2000
| First off dont get all bent out of shape on the compression arguement. =
| what i was curious about is from what i've read ATRAC removes sounds =
| that are not hearable by the human ear. my question is what frequency =
| does the MD
First off dont get all bent out of shape on the compression arguement. =
what i was curious about is from what i've read ATRAC removes sounds =
that are not hearable by the human ear. my question is what frequency =
does the MD stop recording at? I ask this because recently i was =
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First off dont get all bent out of shape on the compression arguement. =
what i was curious about is from what i've read ATRAC removes sounds =
that are not hearable by the
I didn't realize you were recording digitally, using an optical cable.
What is your digital source? A tape deck with optical out?
At the moment I've tried only with the optical SPDIF output of my SB Live
Platinum Live Drive II . (It's the only optical SPDIF gear I have). The
input to the
* Dale Greer [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Fri, 05 May 2000
| Simon, this is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. Thanks
| for the wit
Hey, at least both Ralph and I agreed on something ;).
But it is not so much as the headphones causing hiss but seeming to cause
hiss when what
Luke,
Yeah, analog soundcards on laptops can be REALLY bad depending on how well they
isolated the analog circuitry from the digital circuitry.
I've got a Gateway solo 9300 (or something like that) and it has an optical
SPDIF connector (rectangular). I found a standard optical cable which
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Apologies if this has been covered before.
I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can
clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage
that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss,
Rat wrote (in reply to Dave Hooper):
* "Dave Hooper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly
good compression. I can
clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music
contains a quiet passage
that
* Simon Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 04 May 2000
| Now we have a new subject to argue about, both Ralph and Rat have suggested
| that poor headphones can cause hiss. I don't think this is possible.
Bad gear sounds bad. One of the ways that bad gear sounds bad is a hissing
or scratching
H... Ok - so if I'm recording digitally, I still hear the same
artifacts. So that rules out the ADCs unless the Sharp has some kooky
DAC-ADC design on the digital input. Which I'm pretty sure it doesn't.
As for the guy who says 'get some better headphones' : The music I'm
recording *HAS*
* "Dave Hooper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 04 May 2000
| So the actual headphones used are irrelevant here.
Okay, one possible problem eliminated.
| Ideas or knowledge, anyone? (Should I maybe consider taking it back to
| the shop I bought it at?
Yes. Seems that there might be a loose
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Dave,
I didn't realize you were recording digitally, using an optical cable.
What is your digital source? A tape deck with optical out?
I have experienced this noise
Sometime fairly recently, Simon Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Now we have a new subject to argue about, both Ralph and Rat have suggested
that poor headphones can cause hiss.
Simon, this is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time. Thanks
for the wit
Dale
Chris Eddington wrote:
I have experienced this noise exactly as you have, when trying to record
digitally from my laptop.
Chris (and maybe others)
how are you recording(digitally) from your laptop to md? i have a laptop
running windows95 but currently the only way i can record is from the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| 1) EVERY recording methode is limitied by the bandwidth the recording-media
|provides. But you can't call it compression.
When you deliberately cut the frequency response to fit a given medium, you
can
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| GSM is compressed and encrypted.
And not used in the US. We have PCS, which is not encrypted. The header
packets are secured using a key exchange mechanism to prevent theft of IDs.
How come that I can use
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* Simon Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| When CD's were first introduced, they were slated as being too "clinical" to
| ears familiar to scratchy ol' vinyl. I think this is the same phenomenon
| revisited. Our ears "like" the right kind of distortion
===
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= be more selective when quoting text =
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* Ralph Smeets
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| How come that I can use my GSM phone in several parts of the US?
Like WDCT, it probably isn't encrypted.
--
Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| Wrong, I talk about a single analog sigal with frequency x or a multiple
| analog signals with a maximum frequency of x.
Where x is 22.05kHz, there are perceptable harmonics above x that CD-DA
cannot not record. As a result, the music
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| Where did you get this one from??
I *said* it was probably apocraphal.
--
Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| Video-CD, not CD Video. Video-CD is analog.
Grrr... now you got me confused. :)
| Thus CDV is analogue and VCD is digital.
Which is what I meant (and what I said the first time :).
--
Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Happy Fun Ball
On Wed, 3 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| How come that I can use my GSM phone in several parts of the US?
Like WDCT, it probably isn't encrypted.
I see no reason why it wouldn't be encrypted, since CDMA phones in the US
are
At 11:30 2000-05-03 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote
| How come that I can use my GSM phone in several parts of the US?
Like WDCT, it probably isn't encrypted.
GSM is always encrypted.
/fnord
-
To stop getting this list send a
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| I see no reason why it wouldn't be encrypted, since CDMA phones in the US
| are encrypted.
According to Qualcom's CDMA FAQ, it breaks up a conversation into TCP/IP
packets (the "digital encoding"), and each packet is sent on a different
frequency (the
On Wed, 3 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| I see no reason why it wouldn't be encrypted, since CDMA phones in the US
| are encrypted.
According to Qualcom's CDMA FAQ, it breaks up a conversation into TCP/IP
packets (the "digital
===
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===
can we take this off list? it is beginning to
===
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= be more selective when quoting text =
===
I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer
* "Dave Hooper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 03 May 2000
| I find that my Sharp-831 does not offer particularly good compression. I can
| clearly HEAR the artifacts, especially if the music contains a quiet passage
| that contains a proportionately large amount of background hiss, and on
|
Thank you Raplh, I'm glad someone is kinda seeing things on the same level
as me.
4) Vinyl has a higher bandwidht than CD, but I've yet to see an LP that
uses
it's
full potential.
True, most studio equipment is limited to 22khz anyway, but, I have a
Quadra-Phonic demo disc that according to
On Wed, 3 May 2000, JR Moore wrote:
With VCR's, no, my tapes don't always hold 120 minutes of audio/video. They
can hold up to 6 hours. Zenith made one that held 16 hours.
AFAIR there are various security videos (not time lapse) that record48
hours onto one tape
Mi-ul
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| GSM is compressed and encrypted.
And not used in the US. We have PCS, which is not encrypted. The header
packets are secured using a key exchange mechanism to prevent theft of
IDs.
-- GSM is used in the US. It is using a different
* "Timothy P. Stockman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| I think that a formal compression system implies the capability of
| expansion. Sampling at a lower rate throws away information with no hope of
| recovery...
True for lossless compression. Lossy compression allows for "good
Yeah, fine, whatever.
--
Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
-
To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word
1. On the VHS SP vs EP discussion: EP *always* results in inferior quality
compared to SP because the helical tracks *overlap* in EP mode (they do not
in SP), causing a reduced S/N ratio.
2. On the cellular discussion: Although normal cellular uses analog FM
audio transmission
Guys,
This is turning into a bit of a flame war, and as it's nice and hot now
I'll say my two eurocents.
Conversion from analog to digital is most certainly *NOT* compression.
It is a translation to a totally different representation of the data
and whether or nor analog information is lost in
On Tue, 2 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| ATRAC is an algorithm. GSM is an algorithm. MPEG is an algorithm.
Algorithmic transformation. ATRAC is not a transformation (strictest
definition). What you get out is the same as what you put in,
On Tue, 2 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| GSM is compressed and encrypted.
And not used in the US. We have PCS, which is not encrypted. The header
packets are secured using a key exchange mechanism to prevent theft of IDs.
On Tue, 2 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| That is absolutely false. IEEE 802.11, aka WaveLAN, aka Orinoco is a
| license free 2.4GHz wireless networking system. It is licensed and
| approved and used (widely) in the United States. It
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| ...reducing data so as to require less digital bits to transmit. The
| increase in carrier capacity or decrease in storage space are just side
| effects; the critical reason it's considered compression is because there
| are less bits needed to transmit the
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| That is absolutely false. IEEE 802.11, aka WaveLAN, aka Orinoco is a
| license free 2.4GHz wireless networking system. It is licensed and
| approved and used (widely) in the United States. It includes either 40
| bit or 128 bit encryption depending
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| ATRAC is an algorithm. GSM is an algorithm. MPEG is an algorithm.
Algorithmic transformation. ATRAC is not a transformation (strictest
definition). What you get out is the same as what you put in, just less of
it. MP3 is actually two algorithms, a
All other things being equal, 16-bit linear PCM takes up less
space on a CD
than analog audio does; cf CD-Video (not to be confused with
I have not seen an analog audio on CDs. If you sample the analog audio at a
higher freq. or with a smaller resolution, it won't fit on a traditional CD.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| Actually, you will find that digital cellular systems virtually
| universally use lossy compression for the voice. GSM for sure does, and
| most others I have seen do.
Actually, no, they don't. This comes straight
Hmm,
I tried to keep calm, but.
1) EVERY recording methode is limitied by the bandwidth the recording-media
provides. But you can't call it compression.
2) A very basic A/D rule:
- Each analog signal with frequency x, can be reproduced when sampled at
2x and played back with
Ivica Petrovic (writing about comparing a CD to the master tape)
... that we preferred a 16-bit\44.1 kHz CD being
played on a Sony SACD
player to the original 24-bit 96 kHz master tape on a
Nagra D tape deck!
When CD's were first introduced, they were slated as being too
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| Sory Rat, but I CAN mathematicly prove you that under the right
| conditions, A/D conversion is just a conversion. It's not a form of
| compression. Take a cours at the Uni in Discrete Signal Processing and
| you'll see that you're wrong!
* Simon Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| When CD's were first introduced, they were slated as being too "clinical" to
| ears familiar to scratchy ol' vinyl. I think this is the same phenomenon
| revisited. Our ears "like" the right kind of distortion - go figure.
Probably
===
= NB: Over 50% of this message is QUOTED, please =
= be more selective when quoting text =
===
Rat, you have a strange definition of
* "J. Coon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| Rat, you have a strange definition of compression.
Agreed.
| Shall we start the gun control debate now?
"Amendment II" is all I have to say about that.
--
Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]\ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan
* Ralph Smeets [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 02 May 2000
| GSM is compressed and encrypted.
And not used in the US. We have PCS, which is not encrypted. The header
packets are secured using a key exchange mechanism to prevent theft of IDs.
| Ever heared of DECT?
Also not used in the US. We
watch this! it's an excerpt form British magazine Hi-Fi news record
rewiev, May issuemaybe it will help for developing discussion
"The 1999 Hi-fi show was certainly intriguing...but the van den Hul demo
somewhat threw me and I suspect many others as well. Mr. A J Hul was there
himself,
We all call ATRAC "compression", when it is not. It is bitwise reduction.
No ATRAC is compression. It's removing audio from the PCM stream. Cutoff and
compression ARE NOT the same. How many times do we have to say this?
A single side of an
analog Laserdisc can hold about as much audio data
* "Remko van der Vossen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| I agree with you, there is a big difference between compression and
| compression, you can compress air, and you can compress digital data. When
| we're talking about compression in the Computer Science sense of the word we
| are
* JR Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| Yeah BUT, analog signals when recorded don't have a set size. You can't say
| "1 minute of analog audio takes 5MB", you just can't. You can control the
| amount of audio it holds by changing the speed.
Say what? A CLV Laserdisc _always_ holds
This is my point: CD-DA sampling makes the data smaller, and you can get
the data back with negligible loss (at least that is what most people
think). By your own definition, CD-DA is a form of compression.
You stripped away my and someone elses original point, modern dat
compression is
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| One thing to make clear again: You can _not_ use the size of physical
| media to determine relative compression.
Which is why I specified media *DENSITY*. CD and LD have the same media
density, so for the same quantity of media they have identical
* "Remko van der Vossen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| You stripped away my and someone elses original point, modern dat
| compression is strictly in the digital sense of the word,
Because you and "someone else" ignored my point that CD-DA sampling is a
form of *ANALOG* data
* "WZ" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| It depends whether you're in SP, LP, or EP mode. When you're in EP mode,
| you get 8 hours. So you don't always get 120 minutes.
You always get 120 minues in SP mode, whether you are recording your
favorite program, static, or nothing at all.
You always get 120 minues in SP mode, whether you are recording your
favorite program, static, or nothing at all. The data itself has a
constant, quantifiable size. You can run the tape slower, to fit more
data, but quality drops in proportion to speed. Sounds exactly like lossy
All other things being equal, 16-bit linear PCM takes up less space on a CD
than analog audio does; cf CD-Video (not to be confused with VideoCD). The
sampling process has made the data smaller. Playback of the PCM data is in
most cases almost indistinguishable from the analog original. This
On Mon, 1 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
Another example: cellular vs. digital pcs. Same absolute bandwidth. No
conventional compression. Yet you can get several times more effective
bandwidth with pcs on the same carrier as you can with cellular.
Actually, you will find that
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| Actually, you will find that digital cellular systems virtually
| universally use lossy compression for the voice. GSM for sure does, and
| most others I have seen do.
Actually, no, they don't. This comes straight from a guy who co-wrote the
Sprint
ge -
From: Stainless Steel Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MD-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: MD: "compression"
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| Actually, you will find that digital cellular systems virtually
| universally use lossy compr
By that definition, ATRAC is not compression. But by our consensus, ATRAC
is compression. We have decided that the comms definition is too narrow
for our needs, so we use a different definition, one with a broader scope.
Instead of an algorithmic transformation, compression is the process
On 1 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| Actually, you will find that digital cellular systems virtually
| universally use lossy compression for the voice. GSM for sure does, and
| most others I have seen do.
Actually, no, they don't. This
On 1 May 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
* "Jiawei Ye" [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 01 May 2000
| If "compression" is defined as you did (you defined CD-DA as
| "compression"), no digital mobile phone system will exist in the US,
| 'cause "the FCC does not allow compression or encryption"
Hi,
(I've been away from the MD-L for a few years, but am returning now
because I'm trying to clarify some terminology...)
Somebody claimed:
CD-DA is compressed in a manner similar to MD: it removes bits of
information that you allegedly cannot hear (which is not true).
Now, as I understand
* [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 30 Apr 2000
| I was under the impression that "compression" (in the digital sense, not
| in the analog processing sense) meant taking a bit stream and reducing it.
Being the person in question, I have to point out that what I am trying to
convince him is that the
--Original Message--
From: Stainless Steel Rat [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: MD-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: April 30, 2000 7:25:26 PM GMT
Subject: Re: MD: "compression"
...
Being the person in question, I have to point out that what I am trying to
convince him is that t
* JR Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, 30 Apr 2000
| Yes, you lose stuff then you digitize, BUT compression removes stuff from
| the auctual digital waveform to make it smaller as where digization
| preserves the wav best it can.
CD-DA does no such thing, regardless of its claims.
Actually, Sony
Wouldn't this be dangerous in driving situations? If "white noise" is
introduced to eliminate the road noise, to get purer sound from the stereo
I don't think "white noise" is introduced to eliminate road noise. What Mark
was trying to say is that there would be a microphone which measures
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