--- UNIX admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Solaris only needs to improve if Sun wants to stay
> > competitive and grow its market and mind share.
> If
> > it wasn't for that little hitch, Solaris could
> remain
> > as painful as your heart desired.
>
> Solaris isn't "painful", but easy and e
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Alan DuBoff wrote:
...
If Chung wants to help, he should get involved and try to fix it...
+1000
___
opensolaris-discuss mailing list
opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
> Just so I'm clear, the Nexenta design philosophy is
> (as with many other
> people) one of the things you're mainly interested
> in here? Is that what
> gives rise to most of the sentiments and
> observations you're expressing here?
>
Nexenta design philosophy? I am not sure what you are
refer
> Solaris only needs to improve if Sun wants to stay
> competitive and grow its market and mind share. If
> it wasn't for that little hitch, Solaris could remain
> as painful as your heart desired.
Solaris isn't "painful", but easy and elegant. It's a matter of opinion, and in
particular, it's a
On 4/20/07, Richard L. Hamilton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I really don't get why you think OpenSolaris (esp. as in Solaris Express,
as opposed to regular Solaris (currently 10)) should have any particular
gee-whiz-updates-are-painless tools.
Well, let's see - I have Solaris 8+10 systems in pro
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007, Chung Hang Christopher Chan wrote:
If Chung wants to help, he should get involved and
try to fix it.
I have started trying to compile apt and dpkg under
Sun Studio 11...
Chung,
Just so I'm clear, the Nexenta design philosophy is (as with many other
people) one of the t
> I really don't get why you think OpenSolaris (esp. as in Solaris Express,
as opposed to regular Solaris (currently 10)) should have any particular
gee-whiz-updates-are-painless tools.
Thank heavens you aren't in charge of Solaris :)
Solaris only needs to improve if Sun wants to stay competitive
So what is the thrust of OpenSolaris if it is *not* at least partially
to gain a share of the desktop market among technophobes, regardless of
their age/gender? Why all the emphasis on JDS and Gnome? For serious
commerce or business on big machines who needs or even wants a browser
client or
I really don't get why you think OpenSolaris (esp. as in Solaris Express,
as opposed to regular Solaris (currently 10)) should have any particular
gee-whiz-updates-are-painless tools. Solaris Express is _not_ really
meant for production (or for anybody's technophobe grandmother, either),
it's very
> I'm trying to put my money where my mouth is, and
> trying to get on the
> project to help fix it. IOW, I'm not out there
> yappin' about how lousy the
> Solaris install it, or how outdated it is. Most of
> us have known this for
> years.
What do you think is so lousy about the Solaris
insta
> If Chung wants to help, he should get involved and
> try to fix it.
I have started trying to compile apt and dpkg under
Sun Studio 11. As for pooh poohing on the Solaris way
of updates, may I point out there is no Open Solaris
way of updating. The way liveupgrade is done
(liveupgrade seems to m
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Jerry Sutton wrote:
If this problem were easy I figure you folks would have solved it by now.
I'm glad to hear it is being worked.
You can say that again.
I'm sure there is a tradeoff between enhancing the SVR4 packaging tools,
replacing them with some other existing too
If this problem were easy I figure you folks would have solved it by
now. I'm glad to hear it is being worked.
I'm sure there is a tradeoff between enhancing the SVR4 packaging tools,
replacing them with some other existing toolset, and starting from a
shiny new source tree with a complete ne
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Thomas Rampelberg wrote:
Thank you! I don't care how it's implemented, I'd simply like to see some
functionality added. The current system is working great for some people, and
that's nice it is just my opinion that with some added functionality, we
could really shine
On 18/04/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"a b" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2007-04-18 16:55:44:
>
> If you want to develop on Solaris for Solaris (and other UNIX and
UNIX-like
> systems), or just keep up and play with the latest, cutting edge
technology
> in Solaris, then Sola
developers.sun.com/solaris
We have articles, code samples, tutorials, demos...links to docs. We
only came back online last Oct., so we are still working out the kinks,
getting more and more info...
Look for big navigational improvements coming in the next quarter
:}
-chris
a b wrote:
I'm sorry, but how is it okay to bring a production server down completely
and spend the 30 minutes it's gonna take to get a flash archive on a
server, and then the other hour or more it'll take you to regression test
EVERYTHING, since who knows what really happened ... to update a single
pack
"a b" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2007-04-18 16:55:44:
>
> If you want to develop on Solaris for Solaris (and other UNIX and
UNIX-like
> systems), or just keep up and play with the latest, cutting edge
technology
> in Solaris, then Solaris Express is for you. Otherwise you have to wait
> about s
Could BFU be more stable and convenient for a common OpenSoalris user as
me? I eventually gave up using OpenSolaris and back to Linux after this
tool
had broken some of my blastwave packages for quite a few times.
I doubt it. BFU is meant for an ad-hoc update on a single system for a
Solaris
Geez, Redhat, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Centos must all
be doing the wrong thing then deploying updates to
their thousands of users whether they are individual
desktops or people who keep their own local repository
for their servers.
With the exception of RedHat, those are all developer distros
On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thank you. the concept of apt/yum repositories seems
to be very alien here.
No, it is not. You just have a hard time believing that we don't
embrace it as the "one true way" of doing things. I think the point
most people have b
Sun Connection is very easy to use to manage updates and is all you're
likely to need in a *production* environment. So I don't understand
your compliant. Given that you have never indicated actual usage of
it, I think it is unfair for you to be critical of it.
That's a whole different issue.
1. Documentation is a major pain in the ass to find. Outside of man pages
and the occasional Sun engineer blog entry, there seems to be no decent
documentation. In fact, most people admit that the "Solaris 10" books that
are currently out, are simply Solaris 9 books with a new cover. How is a
u
On 18/04/07, xiaoming zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes, I'd like to play the Solaris Express, but I cannot spend much
effort/time to debug the kernel, I just want to have a simple tool/way to
update/recover the system.
If you install Solaris Express, that's exactly what you're opening
yoursel
On 18/04/07, Thomas Rampelberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Shawn Walker wrote:
> On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> That is not my problem. I would not bother about this
>> if I was more than happy to drop in a DVD or a bunch
>> of CDs to 'upgrade' each box
>
>
lloy0076 wrote:
This discussion seems to be spinning around in circles. There is a lot
of benefit to an "apt" like packaging system but clearly a good number
of organisations and individuals have gotten by with Solaris without
such a packaging system.
That is neither wrong, nor right. It just
Shawn Walker wrote:
On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That is not my problem. I would not bother about this
if I was more than happy to drop in a DVD or a bunch
of CDs to 'upgrade' each box
Except you don't even have to do that. All you need is an ISO image,
n
Shawn Walker wrote:
On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thank you. the concept of apt/yum repositories seems
to be very alien here.
No, it is not. You just have a hard time believing that we don't
embrace it as the "one true way" of doing things. I think the poi
First of all, thank you answer my questions.
On 4/18/07, a b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I doubt it. BFU is meant for an ad-hoc update on a single system for a
Solaris developer. Not end user, not sysadmin, but a developer. Which
implies that said developer has an indepth understanding of Solari
Shawn Walker wrote:
Sun Connection is very easy to use to manage updates and is all you're
likely to need in a *production* environment. So I don't understand
your compliant. Given that you have never indicated actual usage of
it, I think it is unfair for you to be critical of it.
Upgrades are e
On 18/04/07, a b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I can be critical of the Sun Update Connection because I was a paying
customer for one year.
To be fair and objective (and not be a "Sun PR channel", as some feel) Sun
Update connection never worked right.
It shows patches for Solaris 8 on a Solaris
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=solaris+live+upgrade
>
> Is it really that difficult?
Thanks.
> Flash versus Live Upgrade versus "apt" versus "yum"
> versus a Windows
> Like Upgrade discussions are pointless in and of
> themselves. I'd prefer
> to see more "We like apt because..." or "We t
Chung Hang Christopher Chan wrote:
>Oh? Where can I find the documentation for procedures
>for liveupgrade? It still does not have the
>flexibility of using repositories and why do I have to
>download a bunch of images when it is likely that 90%
>of the stuff would be unchanged?
>
>
>
Where do y
Hi There,
Oh? Where can I find the documentation for procedures
for liveupgrade? It still does not have the
flexibility of using repositories and why do I have to
download a bunch of images when it is likely that 90%
of the stuff would be unchanged?
* http://www.google.com.au/search?q=solari
--- Shawn Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > That is not my problem. I would not bother about
> this
> > if I was more than happy to drop in a DVD or a
> bunch
> > of CDs to 'upgrade' each box
>
> Except you don't even ha
> I didn't say they were doing a *wrong* thing, I just
> implied it was not as good.
as opposed to none?
>
> Besides, I bet if you talk to people who use
> advocate one of those
> distributions, they would claim their particular
> distribution's update
> management system was better than any ot
On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That is not my problem. I would not bother about this
if I was more than happy to drop in a DVD or a bunch
of CDs to 'upgrade' each box
Except you don't even have to do that. All you need is an ISO image,
no dropping DVDs CDs o
On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- Shawn Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Thank you. the concept of apt/yum repositories
> seems
> > to be very alien here.
>
> No, it is not. You ju
--- Shawn Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Thank you. the concept of apt/yum repositories
> seems
> > to be very alien here.
>
> No, it is not. You just have a hard time believing
> that we don't
> embrace it as the "on
> Sun Connection is very easy to use to manage updates
> and is all you're
> likely to need in a *production* environment. So I
> don't understand
> your compliant. Given that you have never indicated
> actual usage of
> it, I think it is unfair for you to be critical of
> it.
Eh? When did I make
On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thank you. the concept of apt/yum repositories seems
to be very alien here.
No, it is not. You just have a hard time believing that we don't
embrace it as the "one true way" of doing things. I think the point
most people have b
On 17/04/07, Chung Hang Christopher Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2. Ease of use Now, I know that most of you old
> school UNIX guys
> laugh at this, but usability is important. You've
> tuned me into a cool
> way to do something along the lines of USE flags in
> Solaris, but it sure
> s
--- Thomas Rampelberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chung Hang Christopher Chan wrote:
> >> PXE, Anaconda and JumpStart are just parts and
> >> pieces of the puzzle.
> >> My point is, in an environment like that, one
> would
> >> *never* run `apt-get` or
> >> `yum update`. That would be ad-hoc. I
> 2. Ease of use Now, I know that most of you old
> school UNIX guys
> laugh at this, but usability is important. You've
> tuned me into a cool
> way to do something along the lines of USE flags in
> Solaris, but it sure
> sounds like it's not gonna be easy. Using Ubuntu for
> an example,
--- a b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Pretty much. Install, copy configs over, reboot.
> >Viola. Minus the thousands of servers claim. And
> of
> >course no Oracle.
>
> Exactly. As soon as you have to "copy config over",
> you're in ad-hoc land.
> That works for maybe up to 100 servers with th
As for OpenSolaris, the way to update Solaris Express is to upgrade to the
next release, or depending on your environment, do a BFU (Blindingly Fast
Update). Contrary to all the Joyent propaganda, Sun has never claimed this
to be the production depoyment thing to do, and I wholeheartedly agree
w
a b wrote:
1. Documentation is a major pain in the ass to find. Outside of man
pages and the occasional Sun engineer blog entry, there seems to be
no decent documentation. In fact, most people admit that the "Solaris
10" books that are currently out, are simply Solaris 9 books with a
new cover
Pretty much. Install, copy configs over, reboot.
Viola. Minus the thousands of servers claim. And of
course no Oracle.
Exactly. As soon as you have to "copy config over", you're in ad-hoc land.
That works for maybe up to 100 servers with three full-time people, but
simply shatters for huge se
Chung Hang Christopher Chan wrote:
PXE, Anaconda and JumpStart are just parts and
pieces of the puzzle.
My point is, in an environment like that, one would
*never* run `apt-get` or
`yum update`. That would be ad-hoc. It would take
all the stability and
reliability out of that environment.
I'm s
Funny, I got the similar results for my mail servers
with anaconda kickstart, pxe, dhcp, tftp and grub save
for certain stuff in /etc. They all run the same
distro base, run the same software packages and
scriipts and don't require someone baby sitting them
during installation or upgrade. Almost
UNIX admin wrote:
The problem here is not that Solaris can't deliver or doesn't have the
functionality Linux has. Oh, it has the functionality and then some! In fact,
it had this advanced functionality for years and years and years.
The real problem is, people just don't want to sit down, warm
--- a b <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Funny, I got the similar results for my mail
> servers
> >with anaconda kickstart, pxe, dhcp, tftp and grub
> save
> >for certain stuff in /etc. They all run the same
> >distro base, run the same software packages and
> >scriipts and don't require someone
--- UNIX admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Yes, well, a network enabled dist upgrade or
> package
> > upgrade are the two things I would be looking for.
> > Unless there are tools to help maintain hundreds
> of
> > servers which are divided into different groups
> > available...
>
> Yes there
--- UNIX admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sun studio just has to be as available so that
> > software developers will hopefully stop using
> gcc/gnu
> > ld specific stuff and an easy to update open
> solaris
> > distribution (nexenta looking pretty much
> there...)
> > being installed everywh
> Yes, well, a network enabled dist upgrade or package
> upgrade are the two things I would be looking for.
> Unless there are tools to help maintain hundreds of
> servers which are divided into different groups
> available...
Yes there are. Commercial tools. And they cost a lot of money. Some com
> Sun studio just has to be as available so that
> software developers will hopefully stop using gcc/gnu
> ld specific stuff and an easy to update open solaris
> distribution (nexenta looking pretty much there...)
> being installed everywhere will hopefully draw the
> attention of those software de
> Since Gentoo is compile based, the USE flags
> generally are directly
> transfered to configure options. For example, if you
> wanted to install
> MySQL with '--with-big-tables' you can simply specify
> the
> USE='big-tables' USE flag and everything's taken care
> of for you. I
> can't imagin
The point is, that if you're maintaining your own stack, you don't
need to "integrate" with the base OS's packaging system. In fact, you
usually don't want to mess with or touch the base stack at all!
Similar to how blastwave works actually, and why it works relatively
well...
I disagree. I ta
On 09/04/07, UNIX admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You could even use OpenPKG to build your own entire
> software stack or
> use the one they provide:
> http://www.openpkg.org/
>
> The nice thing about OpenPKG is that it works on more
> operating
> systems than just Solaris.
You could, and it
> You could even use OpenPKG to build your own entire
> software stack or
> use the one they provide:
> http://www.openpkg.org/
>
> The nice thing about OpenPKG is that it works on more
> operating
> systems than just Solaris.
You could, and it sounds nice, but it's a trap. Sooner or later whoeve
Richard L. Hamilton writes:
> While there's no reason one can't have multiple versions of a library
> (with a single-part version number only incremented for ABI changes, please),
> they aren't free even if disk space almost is. They cost maintenance, and
> memory too (if multiple versions are in
While there's no reason one can't have multiple versions of a library
(with a single-part version number only incremented for ABI changes, please),
they aren't free even if disk space almost is. They cost maintenance, and
memory too (if multiple versions are in use at the same time). Sometimes
th
> apt ain't perfect, and I'm not sure any solution will
> be perfect, but we can
> probably do something better than apt. apt is pretty
> old already. opensolaris
> has the advantage that apt is already around. Would
> be good to borrow the
> good from it and have our own. And I don't mean
> bor
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