On 23.04.2021 16:17, Emma Atkinson wrote:
Christoph
The guide suggests Ant and Gradle builds coexist until one has
confidence that both build tools produce the same things.
That was what I intended and why I choose the Gradle-path, but I could
not make it work. A tool doing the heavy lifting
While Ivy is an excellent tool to manage dependencies. It has a niche
market. So unless somebody steps for it and implements a better support
for that, I fear voting for it won't do that much.
On 4/23/21 9:27 AM, Oliver Rettig wrote:
+1 for better ivy integration
> On 23.04.2021 15:22,
+1 for better ivy integration
> On 23.04.2021 15:22, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> > Ant projects can be fairly simply can be migrated to Gradle. It can
> > support your current folder structure. Your file/directory based library
> > dependencies, and occasional customization you made.
>
> Been there,
Christoph
It so happens I have just read a migration guide that looks reasonable and
do-able. It's at
https://docs.gradle.org/current/userguide/migrating_from_ant.html
and addresses option for Ant and mentions Ivy.
The guide suggests Ant and Gradle builds coexist until one has confidence
that
On 23.04.2021 15:22, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
Ant projects can be fairly simply can be migrated to Gradle. It can
support your current folder structure. Your file/directory based library
dependencies, and occasional customization you made.
Been there, tried that, and failed.
If you have a
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 at 15:23, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> Ant projects can be fairly simply can be migrated to Gradle.
Well, I've often said Gradle is just Ant with slightly better syntax! :-)
Joking aside, good point, and I'd be interested to see a converter too.
Best wishes,
Neil
If someone has a well establised Ant project and he would migrate that
to Maven, then he/she is looking at the wrong direction.
Ant projects can be fairly simply can be migrated to Gradle. It can
support your current folder structure. Your file/directory based library
dependencies, and
+1
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:15, Geertjan Wielenga
>
> wrote:
> > should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> > NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects
> -1 from me. I think we made the right steps previously, and perhaps
> should look at whether particular
> -1 from me. I think we made the right steps previously, and perhaps
> should look at whether particular templates need updating or removing
> entirely. But Ant still has its place, particularly with regard to
> the platform.
>
> I'd also prefer an unopinionated IDE. And from an ASF
Good point, Neil. :-)
We should reach out to the Apache Ant (and other Apache projects) for
collaboration with us.
In an ideal world, the Apache Ant community would be developing and
promoting the Apache Ant features in Apache NetBeans.
Gj
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 10:17, Neil C Smith wrote:
>
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 08:15, Geertjan Wielenga
wrote:
> should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects
-1 from me. I think we made the right steps previously, and perhaps
should look at whether particular templates need
On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 17:15, Geertjan Wielenga
wrote:
> I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this
> discussion don’t understand the key point with which this thread started:
> should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
> NetBeans the ability to
t:* 22 April 2021 08:15
> *Cc:* users@netbeans.apache.org
> *Subject:* [External] : Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant
> projects
>
> Hi all,
>
> I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this
> discussion don’t understand the key
: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects
Hi all,
I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this discussion
don’t understand the key point with which this thread started: should we
consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from NetBeans the
ability
Hi all,
I don’t think we’re going to resolve this, several people in this
discussion don’t understand the key point with which this thread started:
should we consider downplaying the prominence of Ant by removing from
NetBeans the ability to create new Ant projects (while keeping all other
Ant
+1 for not removing Ant support or Ant New project creation.
I personnally still use Ant for my projects
Le 22/04/2021 à 03:40, Owen Thomas a écrit :
> If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one
> should be able to do that.
>
> I've encountered both Maven and Gradle
If one wants to create an Ant project from within NetBeans, then one should
be able to do that.
I've encountered both Maven and Gradle (Gradle when developing for Android
on IntelliJ... another anecdote about frustration), and I can see their use
when one has to manage one's code base against
> On Apr 21, 2021, at 2:15 AM, Owen Thomas wrote:
>
> I think Ant is lovely. Most of my projects only extend the Java SE API. I
> don't see the need to change to a build tool that manages third party
> libraries unless and until I need to use third party libraries.
>
> Keep supporting Ant
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 11:43 PM Thomas Kellerer wrote:
> Another +1 for NOT removing Ant support.
>
Nobody is talking about removing Ant support completely.
As far as the "New Project" dialog is concerned:
>
> What about creating a new category "Other" (or maybe even "Legacy") that
> in turn
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 4:51 AM Sean Carrick wrote:
> You have given a very well thought out answer to my message and I
> appreciate that. Now, let me ask you this: do you maintain legacy systems
> that were built with the Swing Application Framework? If so, were you able
> to convert them to
> No, those projects were not left in the lurch by NetBeans dropping
> support for it. Projects were left in the lurch by NetBeans providing
> support for it for too early.
+1
This is all too true. However, it /does/ make a nice, light-weight
library for smaller applications...
No, those projects were not left in the lurch by NetBeans dropping support
for it. Projects were left in the lurch by NetBeans providing support for
it for too early.
Gj
On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 2:24 PM Sean Carrick wrote:
> GJ,
>
> I think one of the biggest mistakes in the history of NetBeans
GJ,
> I think one of the biggest mistakes in the history of NetBeans was to
> provide support for the JSR 296 Swing Application Framework (SAF). We
> should have waited until it was no longer a JSR.
With this statement, I could not agree more strongly with you. NB should
have waited to support
Wayne,
>
> Another issue is that you can't keep it in version control and deploy
> to multiple team members very easily. Minor filesystem differences
> make that sort of thing impossible to do out of the box.
>
This is easily handled in an Ant project when you create the project at
the beginning.
I have used Netbeans longer than it has been called Netbeans. It has
been remarkably stable and some of my projects rely on its ability to
include other projects. All of the included projects are Ant-based.
Dropping support for Ant probably won't hurt since I can always keep the
existing
I think one of the biggest mistakes in the history of NetBeans was to
provide support for the JSR 296 Swing Application Framework (SAF). We
should have waited until it was no longer a JSR. It should only have been
supported in NetBeans once it became part of the JDK. Since it in the end
didn't
Will,
You have given a very well thought out answer to my message and I
appreciate that. Now, let me ask you this: do you maintain legacy
systems that were built with the Swing Application Framework? If so,
were you able to convert them to using Maven?
I have a couple of legacy applications that
20:10
> To: Mitch Claborn
> Cc: users@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects
>
> +1 also for me to not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing)
> projects.
>
> Mark Reds
>
> > Il giorno 20 apr 2021, alle
+1 also for me to not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) projects.
-Original Message-
From: Marco Rossi
Sent: 20 April 2021 20:10
To: Mitch Claborn
Cc: users@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects
+1 a
Completely agree. Ant works and doesn’t require you to write plugins just to
customise the build process.
From: David
Sent: 20 April 2021 23:04
To: Lisa Ruby ; users@netbeans.apache.org
Subject: Re: removing the "new project" support for Ant projects
+1!
On Tue, 2021-04-20 at 1
Surely the issue with any feature or function or tool is whether there is
sufficient Dev support to fix emerging bugs, properly adapt to latest
versions of Java lang, JFX, JLink etc and answer tricky questions from
users.
If Ant Dev expertise and time is getting harder to find it makes sense to
Another +1 for NOT removing Ant support.
As far as the "New Project" dialog is concerned:
What about creating a new category "Other" (or maybe even "Legacy") that in
turn contains the "Java with Ant" category to make the "Ant option" less
prominent.
Just my 0.02€
Thomas
Marco Rossi schrieb
I agree with a lot of what has been said:
* Deprecate ANT - New Project (don't remove)
* Keep ANT for existing projects
Also, I agree that Maven can seem quite overwhelming at first. I have
been using it for only about a year now, and still remember the OMG
experience when I first looked
I think Ant is lovely. Most of my projects only extend the Java SE API. I
don't see the need to change to a build tool that manages third party
libraries unless and until I need to use third party libraries.
Keep supporting Ant and keep the build process as trivial as it needs to be.
On Wed, 21
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 9:32 PM Sean Carrick wrote:
> Explain to me, Scott, why I **need** to learn Maven and dump Ant. Ant has
> served me very well all of these years and has never given me one single
> bit of trouble. Speed? Ant is fast enough for me and my projects. Keeping
> libraries
It is precisely because you want to focus on getting your software
out that you *need* to learn the modern tools for doing so. Your
Gradle project file could literally be one line, depending on your
needs. Maven is certainly more verbose (My preference is Gradle),
but the
On what I hope is a lighter note...I recall being in a session at a JavaOne
years ago when a presenter asked if we knew the difference between Ant and
Maven.
The answer was "the guy who created Ant apologized". (Recall that maven
was a bit slow in the early days when it was just getting
> On Apr 20, 2021, at 1:10 PM, Lisa Ruby wrote:
>
> For those of you who have used Maven for a long time it may seem simple and
> straightforward, but for those of us who haven't it's not. I've struggled to
> try and understand it and figure out how to use it for my software project
> and
I’m not sure why everyone hates ant so much. I know it’s not perfect but what
build tool really is.
If the preference is not to use ant in the future...when is Netbeans going to
formally change from ant to maven? I know some work has been done in the
branches which assume may have involved
To be honest, I think removing new projects in Ant might be too drastic
a change altogether. From my perspective, a good lot of people that
might still be using old Netbeans and the straightforward Ant support
might not even know Ant IS an actual thing in the IDE, more so that
their projects
GJ,
My apologies! It seems I kicked off more than I expected with my
comments. Feel free to slap me if you ever see me...
-SC
On 4/20/21 2:33 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> No one is suggesting removing support for Ant altogether.
>
> The suggestion is to remove the possibility of creating new
+1!
On Tue, 2021-04-20 at 17:10 +, Lisa Ruby wrote:
>
> For those of you who have used Maven for a long time it may seem
> simple and straightforward, but for those of us who haven't it's
> not. I've struggled to try and understand it and figure out how
> to
> use it for my
A compromise could be just to have Ant projects marked as depricated and to
have a working alternative.
Wayne
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 21:33, Geertjan Wielenga
wrote:
> No one is suggesting removing support for Ant altogether.
>
> The suggestion is to remove the possibility of creating new Ant
No one is suggesting removing support for Ant altogether.
The suggestion is to remove the possibility of creating new Ant projects.
Gj
On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 21:32, Thomas Wolf wrote:
> +1 for not removing ant support for me as well. I’m admittedly an
> old-timer. My first exposure to a
+1 for not removing ant support for me as well. I’m admittedly an
old-timer. My first exposure to a ‘modern’ build tool was on my last job -
the company used gradle. With a background in make and ant, I found its
syntax hard to grok.NB devs clearly like Maven - its syntax seems
Another +1 for me to not eliminating Ant support for new and existing
programs. Ant works perfectly well for all my projects too.
Bayless Kirtley
On 4/20/21 2:10 PM, Marco Rossi wrote:
+1 also for me to not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) projects.
Mark Reds
Il giorno 20 apr
+1 also for me to not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) projects.
Mark Reds
> Il giorno 20 apr 2021, alle ore 20:08, Mitch Claborn
> ha scritto:
>
> +1 for not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) projects. We've been
> using Ant for a long time, and it still works just
I develop small projects and prototypes. I was considering migrating to
Gradle when the time comes to retire Ant support.
I have managed to get OpenJFX and linker working well enough under Ant. It
helps that I was used to object linking in the 1980's on DEC PDP11s.
Personally, I find Maven
I have an ant-based NB platform application, moving to Maven is on my to-do
list, but I know nothing about Maven. Some time ago I tried to find relevant
help but I just found generic "move to maven" infos, so I gave up.
> That said, perhaps we could get a write up on someone going through the
On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:10 AM Lisa Ruby
wrote:
> For those of you who have used Maven for a long time it may seem simple
> and straightforward, but for those of us who haven't it's not. I've
> struggled to try and understand it and figure out how to use it for my
> software project and gave
+1 for not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) projects. We've
been using Ant for a long time, and it still works just fine for us, so
there is no payback in converting to Maven.
Mitch
On 4/20/21 12:10 PM, Lisa Ruby wrote:
For those of you who have used Maven for a long time it may
For those of you who have used Maven for a long time it may seem simple and
straightforward, but for those of us who haven't it's not. I've struggled to
try and understand it and figure out how to use it for my software project and
gave up. And it's a huge amount of overhead, extra disk space
GJ,
While I get where you are coming from, there are still a bunch of legacy
applications out there built on the AppFramework, which I do not believe
will be able to be converted to Maven. People are still using NB <= 8.2
simply for the AppFramework IDE integration to maintain those legacy
I agree, the Ant-based project creation should be removed and I disagree
that there should be any kind of conversion between Ant and Maven -- that
simply will never work and we'll spend the rest of our days fixing bugs in
that. To convert from Ant to Maven: create a new Maven project and copy the
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