On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 5:28 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint
>>
>> We also need to look at how the entitlement programs are structured… I’ve
>> seen examples about how the rules are not structured to encourage one to
>> become self-reliant, but promote d
Meant people do NOT like paying taxes . . .
It is a shame we cannot edit these messages.
Krugman and others think this deficit issue has been hyped by people who
want to use it as an excuse to reduce programs they dislike. Right wing
people want to reduce social spending; left wing people want t
Harry Veeder wrote:
Notably, F. Hayek, one of the greatest advocates of free market
> economics, argued that everyone should receive a basic income or (what
> he called a minimum income) regardless of employment.
He did?!?? I am amazed. How very sensible. I guess I do not know much about
him. I
Notably, F. Hayek, one of the greatest advocates of free market
economics, argued that everyone should receive a basic income or (what
he called a minimum income) regardless of employment. See chapter 9
"Security and Freedom" in his book _Road to Serfdom_ .
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=
Perhaps the proton's radius can be both increased and descreased under
certain conditions.
Does anyone know how (or if) in theory the proton's radius would
effect rates of fusion?
Would the proton have to be larger or smaller to increase rates of fusion?
Harry
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Eric
Ed and others:
The US net wealth after all debt is deducted is higher now than it has ever
been in US history. Print the money, default or make the citizens of the US
pay it off, it makes almost no difference. Debt is more or less an illusion.
Picking one or the other of the above choices
Edmund Storms wrote:
Sorry Jed, but your analysis conflicts with every economist that I have
> read and I read many.
>
Read Krugman.
> Raising taxes back to Clayton is not possible because the economy is not
> growing as fast as it was then so that the tax rate would have to be a
> bigger fra
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 5:28 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
I think that a competitive market-based system for most things results in
> the best price for the end-consumer, but for certain critical needs such as
> medical and basic research, some govt/industry cooperation is warranted.
> This goes wit
>From Mark:
> How many people could $400 BILLION dollars feed?
Your point being.
Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/newvortex/
I ranted:
>> IMHO, too many politicians are focusing on a misguided
>> belief that balancing the national budget is the most
>> important thing, above everything else, that must be
>> tackled. What most fail to realize is the fact that
>> "money" is nothing more than a contractual
>> represen
I think that a competitive market-based system for most things results in the
best price for the end-consumer, but for certain critical needs such as medical
and basic research, some govt/industry cooperation is warranted. This goes
with the caveat that the markets are truly competitive with NO
Ed,
Paul Krugman of Princeton (and a NY Times columnist) believes they are
seriously in error. Robert Reich at Berkeley agrees. This appears to be a case
where conventional belief may prove to be as wrong as it has been with regard
to LENR.
Mark
Mark Goldes
Co-Founder, Chava Energy
CEO, Aesop
There is always the option of forfeiting growth and trying to be a world
power. Let it be a job to be of China or India. Scrap the military bases,
inside and outside US. Heavily tax the rich to the point of bankruptcy for
those who like to live off unproductive business (Wall Street). Employ the
un
This proton measurement thing has me perplexed. So much so that I don't care
about it. My
only interest is the nuclear wave number. It appears to be 1.36 fm-1 for all
nucleons.
Frank
-Original Message-
From: David Roberson
To: vortex-l
Sent: Sat, Jan 26, 2013 7:17 pm
Subject:
I agree, this is extremely dangerous for our economy. The usual solution is to
allow inflation to erase the hard earned money of those that save instead of
spend. If you want to have a bit of fun, consider doing the following.
Take the poorest country in the world and lend each of the residen
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 4:16 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
You simply can’t rely on one-sided references to make important decisions
> with these kinds of complex programs...
>
Agreed.
>
>
> Thus, I find that reading the comment section helps to more accurately
> inform me; but that depends o
FYI:
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm
Interest on the Federal Debt
Historical Data, Fiscal Year End
2012 $359,796,008,919.49
2011 $454,393,280,417.03
2010 $413,954,825,362.17
2009 $383,071,060,815.42
2008 $451,154,049,950.63
2
I am going to play the skeptic on this thread. I have a very strong suspicion
that the accuracy of the proton measurement is most likely not as good as is
thought. Why does the uncertainty principle allow the size measurement to be
this accurate since the particle momentum appears to be well
You simply can’t rely on one-sided references to make important decisions with
these kinds of complex programs...
All articles, regardless of whether they are on a liberal website or
conservative, are one-sided; they usually leave out important points which do
not support the article’s slant
Sorry Jed, but your analysis conflicts with every economist that I
have read and I read many. Raising taxes back to Clayton is not
possible because the economy is not growing as fast as it was then so
that the tax rate would have to be a bigger fraction of the income to
provide the same amo
From: Eric Walker
* why would any form of energy arbitration, in which a magnetic field is used
to drain off a little bit of the mass of a proton, not also apply to neutrons
and electrons?
For any energy to transfer, even spin energy - from a disturbed proton to
another nucleus (suc
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 3:35 PM, MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote:
Care to explain how government entitlements are ‘self-funding’…
>
> And how do they ‘help to bring down costs’…
>
No problem.
Medicare is believed to bring down costs through its bargaining power and
ability to control costs [1]. If you br
“But the measurements are extremely accurate, and incompatible, unless there is
something unexplained going on.”
Perhaps protons have different energy levels (shells) similar to elections?
-Mark
From: Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:17
Eric wrote:
“I see no need to slash government entitlements that are basically self-funding
and which, if anything, help to bring down costs.”
Care to explain how government entitlements are ‘self-funding’…
And how do they ‘help to bring down costs’…
-Mark
From: Eric Walker [mailto:
I wrote:
So it seems that under certain conditions, physicists are measuring
> something vaguely like Mills's fractional hydrogen -- it might be that it
> is Mills's fractional hydrogen, or it might be something entirely different.
>
This is incorrect. The physicists are measuring *muonic* hydro
We've already gone over the new Science paper on muonic hydrogen elsewhere,
but I saw a comment on E-Cat World that I thought was worth bringing up
here. According to a summary of the Science article in Ars Technica [1],
the problem I alluded to in the title is that the charge radius of the
proton
Edmund Storms wrote:
> Debt is good within limits, Eric. The problem comes when the amount of
> debt exceeds the ability to pay back or even to service, i.e. to pay the
> interest. This is why people lost their homes. The US government has now
> reached a debt so large that it cannot be paid bac
Edmund Storms wrote:
> Pollution per dollar of GDP is down in both. China is making rapid
> strides, adding nuclear and wind power.
>
>
> That does not seem to translate into improvement. Last night the news
> showed a picture from space where the pollution was clearly visible.
>
It will transl
I wrote:
Your argument is general and would seem to go beyond protons, since it
> operates at the level of quarks and gluons and so on and calls out nothing
> specific to protons, in particular. You appear to extend the variable-mass
> hypothesis to electrons; can I assume that it applies to neut
AIR POLLUTION: Plant extremely fast growing forests to sharply reduce it. See
details at
http://www.adamsmithtoday.com/an-australian-solution-to-the-co2-problem. It
could readily be tried in China. Water might be supplied by air wells instead
of desalination.
Mark Goldes
Co-Founder, Chava Ene
On Jan 26, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Edmund Storms wrote:
Pollution is gradually being reduced.
Except in China and India, which is most of the world.
Pollution per dollar of GDP is down in both. China is making rapid
strides, adding nuclear and wind power.
That does not s
Technology is only part of the solution.
Second Incomes can be adapted to most of the industrialized world. If we are
wise enough to pass such legislation the pain of transition can be reduced.
See a proposed act for the U.S. Congress at SECOND INCOMES on the Aesop site.
See CHEAP GREEN, on th
* * *Here's some fun with PLASMA PHYSICS: In Korean air/ground-skimming space:
the quasi-FUSION project has produced the Mageto-XO-Plamic-toroid ELECTRO-PLAS
METEOR-technology. That latest most 'fun' development is that
launch-generators/launchers are far more directable now(accurate) via us
I should have described the difficulty of transition.
When a few companies have changed to fully automated production it is
hard to see how they can be made to use a shorter work week, earlier
retirement, higher taxes etc.To impose those things just on companies
changing to full automation wou
Edmund Storms wrote:
> Pollution is gradually being reduced.
>
>
> Except in China and India, which is most of the world.
>
Pollution per dollar of GDP is down in both. China is making rapid strides,
adding nuclear and wind power.
>
> Out of control population growth is moderating, even in th
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
> Interesting discussion. It raises for me, among other things, questions
> about the limits of the instruments used to determine the mass of the
> various particles being discussed.
I think this is used for the proton:
http://en.wikipedia.or
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
If so, why would any form of energy arbitration
>
Typo: "arbitrage" not "arbitration."
Eric
On Jan 26, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Edmund Storms
wrote:
No Steven, what you say is not the issue. The issue is that money
has been lent to the US in various forms and by various people and
they want their money back eventually. Meanwhile th
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Jones Beene wrote:
This essentially is the best argument for quantization: if the electron is
> quantized – then why not the proton? But it is a false expectation. Can
> anyone think of any good theoretical argument which demand quantization in
> actual protons (a
TARGETED RESONANT FREQUENCY/Hertz MODULATION at the quantum level indicated by
PHONON outputs will
be the KEY to discovering the most efficacious input-technique for discovering
why(for instance) that Russian water is
more salubrious than Texan water and to TRIGGER cascading 'cooler' fusion
rea
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Edmund Storms wrote:
No Steven, what you say is not the issue. The issue is that money has been
> lent to the US in various forms and by various people and they want their
> money back eventually. Meanwhile they want to be paid interest. The US is
> rapidly approa
Yes: That pesky 'Spooky Action @ a Distance' again. Quantum spinning particles
'tailed'/quantum-singularitized through XO-PlasmicSpace(regardless of distance
of separation) to be in multiple locations simultaneously interacting in
'real-time' with other particles aka quantum-units. This is al
Well, if I had the backing to test the hypothesis, one of the first
experiments would be to set up three identical reactors using nickel
nanopowder, or Ni loaded zeolite.
1) argon fill, as an inert baseline
2) H2 enriched via multi-stage enrichment of the least dense fractional
component of bot
Jones: Reading this reminds me of WHACK-A-MOLE :^(but that's chemistry not
quantum physics/sorry).
None-the-less Eric your comments/assessments are astute.
Alternative: Is it that protons don't quantize well because they have
singularity-centres that dialate or contract relative to variabl
Yes, Mark, this would be the best place to start. But jobs will be
lost, the only issue is which jobs. Congress does not want to cut any
jobs because these are voters. They only want to cut things that will
piss off the fewest number of people who vote. The poor do not vote so
they are fa
Ed,
Huge cuts could be made in our military budget which is bloated, wasteful and
largely redundant. (I was a USAF Officer and speak with first hand knowledge).
That alone would make an enormous difference.
Try and get Congress to approve it! Fat chance!
Mark Goldes
Co-Founder, Chava Energy
On Jan 26, 2013, at 12:45 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote:
From Ashfield:
> ... The referenced article was rather unimaginative in places but
> noted the basic question: “who is going buy all these nice goodies
> if they are unemployed?”
Precisely.
IMHO, too many politicians
Steven:
How many people could $400 BILLION dollars feed?
-Mark
From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson [mailto:orionwo...@charter.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:46 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Another article about the impact of automation on
employment
>From Ash
On Jan 26, 2013, at 11:45, "OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson"
wrote:
> I don't think one can accomplish that by constantly slashing national budgets
> in a misguided belief that doing so will stabilize the value of "money",
> which in turn will somehow miraculously cause businesses to autom
Kelos's goal was to enable almost everyone to receive half your income from
diversified investments by about age 50.
That could lower the nominal work week to 20 hours.
Herbert Marcuse defined toil as work you do not choose to do. All other work he
viewed as play. His only optimistic book, Er
Agreed.
See HUMAN INVESTMENT, on the Aesop Institute site, for a way to sharply
increase employment. Weak versions of the incentives we suggested in Discussion
Papers we wrote for the Economic Development Administration (U.S. Department of
Commerce) were included in the Jobs Tax Credit of 1977
Second Incomes, as suggested by Louis Kelso, would be derived from a broad new
program of capital investment. This is not in any way Socialism. Kelso's first
book, with Mortimer Adler, was The Capitalist Manifesto.
There is a link, under SECOND INCOMES, on the Aesop Institute website, to a
rec
as explained in the wired, and as experienced in the 50s,
the automation will reduce some work, but create others that we don't
imagine, or we don't dare to.
there is also old need that will be covered better like elderly care,
better health care, disabled care, ...
vacation will develop (I don't
>From Ashfield:
> ... The referenced article was rather unimaginative in places but
> noted the basic question: "who is going buy all these nice goodies
> if they are unemployed?"
Precisely.
IMHO, too many politicians are focusing on a misguided belief that balancing
the nationa
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:56 PM, a.ashfield wrote:
> So like the Chinese proverb says: “Interesting times.”
That has been considered a curse more than a proverb.
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Edmund Storms wrote:
> Tom Claytor has a way of making tritium based on LENR that might supply
> tritium to the hot fusion program. Nevertheless, once LENR is understood,
> who needs hot fusion? Public funding is not determined by logic, facts, or
> even rationa
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> Thus you might say that there would be low mass variability between hydrogen
> split from tropical seawater in 1950 and hydrogen spit from Siberian methane
> in 2013.
That would have profound implications. Some sources of hydrogen would
work
Good point Terry - but - I don't have a problem with the sampling
uncertainty being less than what is actually available to be captured within
samples.
This is not an easy point to reconcile, and I could be wrong on how NIST
arrived at that number, but - the kind of uncertainty in the table could
Edmund Storms wrote: "This is obviously a basic question and the obvious
answer is a form of socialism. Money will have be extracted from the
system to give basic support to the unemployed and underemployed. As we
know from sad experience, when people are hungary and bored they gum up
the syste
Louis Kelso, inventor of the Employee Stock Ownership Plan - ESOP - used by
11,000 companies, saw this coming decades ago. He suggested a Second Income
Plan. See: SECOND INCOMES at www.aesopinstitute.org for a current version.
Independent of savings, it would open a path to end poverty, and pro
This would set the upper limit of available energy somewhere around
83.2 eV per atom.
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
> 7.4 x 10^-35 rather
>
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
>>> One derivative
On Jan 26, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Harry Veeder wrote:
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Edmund Storms
wrote:
Some LENR systems produce tritium and this decays into He3. Could a
LENR system be engineered to supply enough
He3 to make this sort of hot fusion practical?
No, because tritium is
On Jan 26, 2013, at 10:45 AM, a.ashfield wrote:
Interesting discussion. I have been writing about this for years
but it is good to see the main media is starting to pick it up. The
referenced article was rather unimaginative in places but noted the
basic question: “who is going buy all t
7.4 x 10^-35 rather
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
>> One derivative speculation of all of this, which points to usable details to
>> help to better design NiH experiments, is to know “how much” excess
>> mass-energy e
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> One derivative speculation of all of this, which points to usable details to
> help to better design NiH experiments, is to know “how much” excess
> mass-energy exists in hydrogen (as “overage” from the average) which mass
> can be converted t
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
>
> Thanks for this reminder.
> Can you imagine any reasons why hot fusion researchers might divert
> some of their own money into LENR research because it could advance
> their own program?
> Or will funding for hot fusion research dry up soon
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 11:02 PM, Edmund Storms wrote:
>>
>>
>> Some LENR systems produce tritium and this decays into He3. Could a
>> LENR system be engineered to supply enough
>> He3 to make this sort of hot fusion practical?
>
>
> No, because tritium is a very minor product of LENR. If LENR wo
Interesting discussion.I have been writing about this for years but it
is good to see the main media is starting to pick it up.The referenced
article was rather unimaginative in places but noted the basic question:
"who is going buy all these nice goodies if they are unemployed?"
The irrationa
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
> I wrote:
>
>>
>> What is it that is causing the proton in this model to vary in mass, and
>> is the range of possible masses discrete or continuous?
>
>
> I should anticipate one possible answer, which seems like a good explanation
> -- a prot
One derivative speculation of all of this, which points to usable details to
help to better design NiH experiments, is to know “how much” excess
mass-energy exists in hydrogen (as “overage” from the average) which mass
can be converted to energy (via goldstone bosons). If this estimate can be
based
On Jan 26, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Edmund Storms wrote:
I agree Jed, you are correct if humans were rational.
They are, at times. If we were not rational, civilization and
technology would not exist.
Unfortunately, a significant fraction are not rational, as can be
easil
Edmund Storms wrote:
I agree Jed, you are correct if humans were rational.
>
They are, at times. If we were not rational, civilization and technology
would not exist.
> Unfortunately, a significant fraction are not rational, as can be easily
> seen at all levels. When irrational people have t
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Peter Gluck wrote:
>
>
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
However the professor has a very inefficient style "sweet", moral and nasty
not skilled in polemiology, surely has not read or understood Sun Tzu
Peter
> Rossi ha
Eric,
Here are a few other brief points leading to the conclusion that hydrogen
mass is not quantized-at least not “in practice”. (to be explained)
First off – it would be most unusual for only one isotope of one element in
the entire periodic table to be quantized. That would be the case if the
I agree Jed, you are correct if humans were rational. Unfortunately, a
significant fraction are not rational, as can be easily seen at all
levels. When irrational people have the ability, they always attempt
to destroy. In the past, their ability was very limited. This ability
is growing.
Peter Gluck wrote:
Rossi has censored it, and I have saved it for the posterity.
Ah, I see!
Rossi is short-tempered at times.
- Jed
Well Steven, as usual you cleverly identified another way humans will
become extinct. These activities will cause excessive sex from
boredom, which will require the computer to thin the population,
perhaps by an excessive amount using the other tools I mentioned.
Ed
On Jan 26, 2013, at 8:
Edmund Storms wrote:
A truly scary prospect, I would say. Humans now have three ways they could
> make themselves extinct - atomic weapons, biological weapons, and smart
> computers.
>
I do not see it that way. Nuclear or biological weapons would cause only
massive harm. Nothing good can come of
Rossi has censored it, and I have saved it for the posterity.
Peter
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> If it is censored, why did you post it?
>
> - Jed
>
>
--
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Ed sez:
> What happens when the smart computer is run by cold fusion so that it
> can never be turned off?
Men will be free to go back to watching professional wrestling & football on
TV 20 hours a day.
Women... cooking shows.
Thus spoke, THGTTG: "Mostly harmless."
Regards,
Steven Vincent John
A truly scary prospect, I would say. Humans now have three ways they
could make themselves extinct - atomic weapons, biological weapons,
and smart computers. The list seems to be growing. What happens when
the smart computer is run by cold fusion so that it can never be
turned off?
Ed
If it is censored, why did you post it?
- Jed
See a bunch of photos here:
http://photo.sankei.jp.msn.com/kodawari/data/2013/01/24led/
Google translate does a pretty good job converting the text on this page to
English.
- Jed
See:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/a-world-without-work-as-robots-computers-get-smarter-will-humans-have-anything-left-to-do/2013/01/18/61561b1c-61b7-11e2-81ef-a2249c1e5b3d_story.html
This subject is starting to attract attention in the mass media. I wish
cold fusion would.
Cold fusion
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