[FairfieldLife] Euthanasia FYI

2005-03-26 Thread m2smart4u2000


1.  Where are euthanasia and assisted suicide legal?

Oregon, the Netherlands and Belgium are the only jurisdictions in the 
world where laws specifically permit euthanasia or assisted suicide. 
Oregon permits assisted suicide.(1) The Netherlands and Belgium permit 
both euthanasia and assisted suicide.(2)

http://www.euthanasia.com/page4.html





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[FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread m2smart4u2000


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Symbolic of the collective consciousness, especially as the 
president wet his pants over it. If you ascribe to that shit. My 
wife asked if she was still alive and i said, dont know don't care.  

Well, if you can stand one more idea. I think that Michael is 
doing a mercy killing. I saw the Cooper show last night.The guardian 
said he thought that the rift between Michael and the parents may 
have ocurred at a time when Michael accepted what all the doctors 
had been saying, that Terri was brain dead, and the parents could 
not accept it. If Euthanasia was legal then Michael  could just say 
it was euthanasia, instead he has to state that these were Terri's 
wishes. If Euthanaisia was legal, it would be possible to medicate 
Terri. Chopra had some interesting points. He said that both sides 
were coming from love and compassion. He said that with the advance 
in science we have defined death. He said that if you take an organ 
out of the body, you can keep it alive in a petri dish, but that 
does not constitute life. He said Terri's eeg was non-existent, 
therefore she is already dead according to science. He also said she 
had no awareness and could not suffer. 
My Advanced directive requests pulling the plug but giving morphine 
to be sure there is no pain.





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[FairfieldLife] Fairfield Friends, your Daily Inspiration - Sunday - God Is - Period

2005-03-26 Thread The Daily Inspiration
Title: DailyPage_10






  

  

  
  March 27, 2005 - God Is - 
  Period


  
  
  
  
  
 
  We must 
  not portray you in king's robes,
  you drifting mist that brought forth the morning.
  Once 
  again, from the old paint boxes we take the same gold for scepter and 
  crown that has disguised you through the ages.
  Piously 
  we produce our images of you till they stand around you like a thousand 
  walls.
  And when our heart would simply open, our fervent hands hide you.
  Ranier Maria Rilke
  Rilke's Book of Hours
  Barrows & Macy, tr.
   
  
  
  Our 
  ideas of Him and us are just ideas that do not cast so much as a shadow in 
  Reality. 
		Carson's Commentary

  

  
  




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		Christina and 
		Bert, 
	
	 
	
	I sometimes get 
	discouraged because of the gap between my awareness and my thoughts and 
	actions.  I need your daily source of information and inspiration.
	
	Your messages 
	help me.  Thank you.
	
	 
	
	Regards,
	
	 
	
	 Jim 
	Jansen
	
	Saint 
	Paul, Minnesota, United States
	
	
 
 
Fairfield Friends, we welcome your 
comments.
 


http://www.thedailyinspiration.com/ 
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Christina CarsonFuturePoint 
Communication6868 
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e-mail:  
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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread m2smart4u2000


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an 
actual
> > > yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising 
possible, and
> > > I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible 
in the
> > > near future, 
> > 
> 
> 
> > What makes you think so?
> 
> *
> 
> My own experiences --  not to brag, but after eating at Taco Bell, 
I 
> achieve significant lift-off.

I used to hand out See's candies on governor training. That sugar 
rush is great for lift off.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >
> > However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual
> > yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and
> > I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the
> > near future, 
> 


> What makes you think so?

*

My own experiences --  not to brag, but after eating at Taco Bell, I 
achieve significant lift-off.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
> However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual
> yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and
> I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the
> near future, 

What makes you think so?





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread rudra_joe





When I met him he scowled and so did I.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 4:35 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from 
  Pundiji
  
  
  In a message dated 3/26/05 3:42:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  on 
3/26/05 3:32 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:> > Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft. 
Lauderdale> airport. Got to spend some time with him in his 
room> this morning just sitting in that amazing darshan.Very 
subjective judgment, but how would you compare it with 
Maharishi'sdarshan?
  
  I don't like to talk about my experiences much but the first 
  time I ever saw Punditji the whole time I  was in the room with him 
  listening to him speak I could see brilliant gold light pouring out of the top 
  of his head cascading over his shoulders. It looked more like molting gold 
  than just light. I have seen this with M. My impression was that this is 
  what MMY was like in his youth.To subscribe, 
  send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread rudra_joe





Symbolic of the collective consciousness, 
especially as the president wet his pants over it. If you ascribe to that shit. 
My wife asked if she was still alive and i said, dont know don't care.  


  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  peterklutz 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 4:32 
  PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] 
  Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo
  Maybe this whole Schiavo thing is symbolic-omenious 
  for North-Americaat this time..Do we kill her or let her stay with 
  us, hoping for improvement..?To 
  subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or 
  go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 


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[FairfieldLife] storm over gm corn in mexico

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


One such farmer, Olga Toro Maldonado, said the new corn produced well 
the first year. But the grain she saved and planted the following year 
produced "tiny, ugly little things." That is because she planted corn 
developed for the Great Plains. In the end, she said, "we realized that 
it is better to have our own maize."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/international/americas/27corn.html





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Alex Stanley


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> 
> You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state
> of michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible 
> thumpers going, they've got to find a new thing once terri 
> schiavo drools her last in a few hours.

They've already latched on to that finger found in a bowl of Wendy's
chili:

http://tinyurl.com/4ouwd







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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 10:52 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > *
> > 
> > People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same
> > interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. 
Bill
> > Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it
> > did not work out well:
> > 
> > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors
> > 


> I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some 
dictator or
> factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He 
tried
> repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped.

***

Right, which is why the movement needs a manager who is familiar with 
the culture of a country (_and_ is not a fatuous clown like Bevan, 
Hagelin, blah,blah,blah) to promote TM effectively  -- MMY, a Hindu 
monk, can't be that manager, not even in India (because a recluse 
monk is a real poor social engineer), which is why he left in the 50s 
since he realized that he lacked the knowledge of how to promote TM 
quickly enough:

http://geocities.com/bbrigante/comp.html#30

(you have possibly seen this post from me previously)

If MMY does not do something dramatic before he dies (and with the 
announcement of Sat Yuga this July, this is a possibility), sooner or 
later retard management will be booted out by some organized person 
who, with the support of all the meditators who are fed up with the 
useful grandstanding of the current movement, will put the promotion 
of TM on a rational track.

However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual 
yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and 
I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the 
near future, and then it won't matter how messed up the movement is --
 MMY used to say that the time would come when people would be 
banging on the doors of TM teachers late at night demanding to be 
initiated -- yogic fliers on the evening news (actually flying) would 
certainly fulfill that forecast.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 10:52 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> *
> 
> People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same
> interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill
> Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it
> did not work out well:
> 
> http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors
> 
I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some dictator or
factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He tried
repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >  
> > In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > 
> > . The  
> > Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. 
After  
> > several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the  
> > beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the 
> meditation  
> > program.  
> > 
> 
> 
> Two things that make people here hopping mad: 
> 1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to 
TM. 
> 2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public 
> schools with great success, and with public funds.

***

I'm definitely on the side of kids' learning TM, but because their 
meditating parents got them to start, not because they had to as a 
school assignment, which I don't see working as a strategy in the U.S.

Nevertheless, if the two charter schools do survive, it will be good 
for the TM movement, and for the kids involved. However, many charter 
schools are having problems, and they can disappear in a hurry:

http://www.tft250.org/Ohio's_charter_schools.html





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kenny H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> Anyone remember when the NJ court case and ruling actually took 
place?
> In late 79-early 80, I wrote a grant to the Bd of Ed of the City of 
> NY, at the request of a middle school principal in the South Bronx, 
> and ended up getting money and initiating nearly the entire faculty 
> of this bombed out school in the middle of what had to be the worst 
> neighborhood in the five boroughs. The principal was so impressed 
> after the first couple of batches of teachers learned, that he 
pulled 
> money earmarked for the school psychologist so the rest of the 
> faculty could learn. After the 3 days of checking, the 10 day 
follow 
> up I never saw any of those people again. 
> Ken
>

*

People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same 
interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill 
Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it 
did not work out well:

http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors 









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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 7:48 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > Interesting. TWB was a siddha, no wonder! His successor has had some
> > interesting things to say about the perversion of Patanjali by MMY.
> > 
> Tat Wala Baba has a successor? What did he say?


*

http://www.yogiphotos.com/chap8a.html





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other
> >> religions.
> > 
> > It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the
> > Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common 
lineage in
> > Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha 
rite. No?
> > 


> These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off 
the
> radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more 
common,
> the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose 
their clout
> and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools.



The two contract schools (in Baltimore and Detriot) where TM is being 
used are all-black schools, and it may be that black parents are more 
willing, given the usually desperately bad conditions prevalent in 
big city black schools, to experiment with TM to see if it helps 
their kids. Since no white children are involved, these schools are 
off the radar of many fundies.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> > TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich 
> > and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see 
> > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if 
> > somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the 
> > use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the 
> > TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss 
so 
> > far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send 
> > their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them 
> > to. 
> 
> I Think I will file a suit or tell the local bible thumpers.

**

You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state of 
michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible thumpers going, 
they've got to find a new thing once terri schiavo drools her last in a 
few hours.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 9:36 PM, Kenny H at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> you LIKE starting arguments, don't you!!
> kh

Who me? Yeah, gotta stir the pot every now and then.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 9:38 PM, off_world_beings at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
 No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other
 religions.
>>> 
>>> It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from
> the
>>> Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common
> lineage in
>>> Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha
> rite. No?
>>> 
>> These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are
> off the
>> radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more
> common,
>> the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose
> their clout
>> and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools.>>
> 
> I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and
> it will be a fast downward slide.
> 
I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Freemasons et al mantras

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:19 PM, johnlasher20002000 wrote:
> 
> > -I have heard from a mason that the bija mantras used in tm are 
also
> > in some of their designs or available, but they don't know what 
they
> > are. Is this true.
> 
> Yes.


You still didn't answer my question about what they hid a Rosslyn. If 
you don't know that, you don't know much about them.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other
> >> religions.
> > 
> > It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from 
the
> > Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common 
lineage in
> > Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha 
rite. No?
> > 
> These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are 
off the
> radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more 
common,
> the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose 
their clout
> and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools.>>

I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and 
it will be a fast downward slide. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Kenny H


you LIKE starting arguments, don't you!!
kh

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 7:05 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > *
> > 
> > MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that 
they
> > wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were 
unsuccessful
> > in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right?
> > 
> Right. And since he wasn't overly successful himself, maybe he felt a 
tad
> unqualified to be making brahmacharis. But no sense in rehashing that
> discussion.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
> In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> . The  
> Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After  
> several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the  
> beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the 
meditation  
> program.  
> 


Two things that make people here hopping mad: 
1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to TM. 
2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public 
schools with great success, and with public funds.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Kenny H


Anyone remember when the NJ court case and ruling actually took place?
In late 79-early 80, I wrote a grant to the Bd of Ed of the City of 
NY, at the request of a middle school principal in the South Bronx, 
and ended up getting money and initiating nearly the entire faculty 
of this bombed out school in the middle of what had to be the worst 
neighborhood in the five boroughs. The principal was so impressed 
after the first couple of batches of teachers learned, that he pulled 
money earmarked for the school psychologist so the rest of the 
faculty could learn. After the 3 days of checking, the 10 day follow 
up I never saw any of those people again. 
Ken



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Why are you spreading lies Vaj?
> > > 
> > > I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I 
> > would be 
> > > lying if I told you any different.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be 
taught 
> > in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over  
a 
> > decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the 
> > fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.)
> > 
> > 
> > > >
> > > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 
years. 
> > It is
> > > > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be.
> > > 
> > > While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not 
sure 
> > > teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number 
> > one, I 
> > > don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. 
Number 
> > two, 
> > > eventually people will realize that this is a violation of 
church 
> > and 
> > > state. >>.
> > 
> > 
> > No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other 
> > religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US 
law 
> > and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way 
> > that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie 
crusade 
> > to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already 
> > crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts 
will 
> > never support  an action against such a well scientifically 
> > documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or 
giving 
> > up your religion in any way.
> 
> It can be taught but not with public funds.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


Sal
Are you blind?
TM is taught in public schools in the US right now. It is legal to 
do so.
What does that tell you about the law?

It is possible that the fundie christians will never let it be 
widespread (but will try as many toxic pharmaceuticals on their addh 
children as possible.and are REALLY screwing them up.), but that 
seems unlikely , especially in light of the fact that a judge in 
Missouri is sentancing people to TM)
Two things that make people here hopping mad: 
1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to TM. 
2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public 
schools with great success.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> 
> >  Your mind is tuned to not find it.
> 
> My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find 
> anything to support your claim either.  And it won't, not until 
Malnak 
> v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one.
> 
> >  Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the 
only
> >  one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR
> >  PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR 
NEWS !!!)
> >
> > http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html
> >  """Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation 
technique
> >  to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public 
charter
> >  school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>.
> >  Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part 
of a
> >  University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a
> >  difference in their daily lives.
> >
> The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both 
of 
> which are very different from public schools and both of which 
allow 
> religious study.
> 
> "the charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs 
(with 
> the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. 
Charter 
> Schools are basically "private/independent public schools" usually 
> operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned 
> individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school 
> district/government and because of this, there can only be a 
maximum of 
> 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year."
> 
> http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 7:48 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Interesting. TWB was a siddha, no wonder! His successor has had some
> interesting things to say about the perversion of Patanjali by MMY.
> 
Tat Wala Baba has a successor? What did he say?





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other
>> religions.
> 
> It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the
> Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in
> Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No?
> 
These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the
radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common,
the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout
and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 7:05 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> *
> 
> MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they
> wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful
> in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right?
> 
Right. And since he wasn't overly successful himself, maybe he felt a tad
unqualified to be making brahmacharis. But no sense in rehashing that
discussion.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 6:38:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I bet 
  MMY is still that way.

Yeah , but just try getting in the same room with 
him!


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
. The 
  Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After 
  several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the 
  beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation 
  program.  

I always thought the Jim Jones event in Guiana was a nail in 
the coffin of the TM movement. People became very wary of cults and cultish 
figures.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Sal Sunshine
That's what I figured.

Sal

On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:55 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:

 Guess what the private school is? Maharishi School in Fairfield...




[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread easyone200


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich 
> and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see 
> http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if 
> somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the 
> use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the 
> TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so 
> far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send 
> their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them 
> to. 

I Think I will file a suit or tell the local bible thumpers.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> 
> >  Your mind is tuned to not find it.
> 
> My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find 
> anything to support your claim either.  And it won't, not until 
Malnak 
> v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one.
> 
> >  Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the 
only
> >  one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR
> >  PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR 
NEWS !!!)
> >
> > http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html
> >  """Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation 
technique
> >  to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public 
charter
> >  school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>.
> >  Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part 
of a
> >  University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a
> >  difference in their daily lives.
> >
> The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both of 
> which are very different from public schools and both of which 
allow 
> religious study.
> 

Guess what the private school is? Maharishi School in Fairfield...


> "the charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs 
(with 
> the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. 
Charter 
> Schools are basically "private/independent public schools" usually 
> operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned 
> individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school 
> district/government and because of this, there can only be a 
maximum of 
> 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year."
> 
> http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850

The whole issue of what is acceptable in public funding of schools 
and what is not is in question:

http://pewforum.org/religion-schools/





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:40 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:

> It was not "folly" on MMY's part, it was just a way of dealing with
> children who insisted, wrongly as it turns out, that they were
> qualified to be Brahmacharis.

Interesting if true.

> This reminds me of the anecdote in Nancy Cooke de Herrera's
> book "Beyond Gurus": a guy walking around MMY's ashram one day in
> India came upon MMY and Tat Wala Baba sitting holding hands on the
> path. The guy asked if he could join them in meditation and also hold
> hands -- TWB and MMY demurred, but the guy insisted, so they said
> OK...next thing the guy knew, it was dark and TWB and MMY were long
> gone -- the guy had immediately lost consciousness when he held hands
> with them.

Interesting. TWB was a siddha, no wonder! His successor has had some 
interesting things to say about the perversion of Patanjali by MMY.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Why are you spreading lies Vaj?
> > > 
> > > I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I 
> > would be 
> > > lying if I told you any different.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be 
taught 
> > in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over  
a 
> > decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the 
> > fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.)
> > 
> > 
> > > >
> > > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 
years. 
> > It is
> > > > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be.
> > > 
> > > While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not 
sure 
> > > teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number 
> > one, I 
> > > don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. 
Number 
> > two, 
> > > eventually people will realize that this is a violation of 
church 
> > and 
> > > state. >>.
> > 
> > 
> > No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other 
> > religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US 
law 
> > and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way 
> > that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie 
crusade 
> > to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already 
> > crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts 
will 
> > never support  an action against such a well scientifically 
> > documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or 
giving 
> > up your religion in any way.
> 
> It can be taught but not with public funds.

**

TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich 
and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see 
http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if 
somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the 
use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the 
TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so 
far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send 
their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them 
to.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:05 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:
> 
> > MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him 
that they
> > wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were 
unsuccessful
> > in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right?
> 
> Bob, you ask an interesting question!
> 
> It may be possible that MMY realized he was violating Dharma 
Shastra 
> (read: "Natural Law") and stopped his folly?

*

It was not "folly" on MMY's part, it was just a way of dealing with 
children who insisted, wrongly as it turns out, that they were 
qualified to be Brahmacharis.

This reminds me of the anecdote in Nancy Cooke de Herrera's 
book "Beyond Gurus": a guy walking around MMY's ashram one day in 
India came upon MMY and Tat Wala Baba sitting holding hands on the 
path. The guy asked if he could join them in meditation and also hold 
hands -- TWB and MMY demurred, but the guy insisted, so they said 
OK...next thing the guy knew, it was dark and TWB and MMY were long 
gone -- the guy had immediately lost consciousness when he held hands 
with them. 

 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Sal Sunshine
And you don't even have to be on steroids.

Sal

On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:17 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote:

 I didn't realize Ken, that you were in that select group of having 
 taught 1000 plus people. I mean that kind of record should mean 
 something to the CEO. What would you say is sports equivilent of that 
 700 home runs in a career? 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

 Your mind is tuned to not find it. 

My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find anything to support your claim either.  And it won't, not until Malnak v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one.

 Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only 
 one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR 
 PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!)

http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html
 """Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique 
 to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter 
 school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>.
 Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a 
 University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a 
 difference in their daily lives.

The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both of which are very different from public schools and both of which allow religious study. 

"the charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs (with the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. Charter Schools are basically "private/independent public schools" usually operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school district/government and because of this, there can only be a maximum of 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year."

http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850

[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread easyone200


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> > 
> > > Why are you spreading lies Vaj?
> > 
> > I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I 
> would be 
> > lying if I told you any different.
> > 
> 
> 
> Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught 
> in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over  a 
> decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the 
> fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.)
> 
> 
> > >
> > > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. 
> It is
> > > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be.
> > 
> > While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure 
> > teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number 
> one, I 
> > don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number 
> two, 
> > eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church 
> and 
> > state. >>.
> 
> 
> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other 
> religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law 
> and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way 
> that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade 
> to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already 
> crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will 
> never support  an action against such a well scientifically 
> documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving 
> up your religion in any way.

It can be taught but not with public funds.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Freemasons et al mantras

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:19 PM, johnlasher20002000 wrote:

> -I have heard from a mason that the bija mantras used in tm are also
> in some of their designs or available, but they don't know what they
> are. Is this true.

Yes.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:05 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:

> MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they
> wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful
> in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right?

Bob, you ask an interesting question!

It may be possible that MMY realized he was violating Dharma Shastra 
(read: "Natural Law") and stopped his folly?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:01 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

> Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught
> in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over  a
> decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the
> fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.)

It is illegal to even mention the word "god" in the pledge of 
allegiance in some places. But it should be allowable to bring Hinduism 
into the schools? You believe that this is the Vedic tradition, right?


>>>
>>> TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years.
> It is
>>> legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be.
>>
>> While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure
>> teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number
> one, I
>> don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number
> two,
>> eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church
> and
>> state. >>.
>
> No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other
> religions.

It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the 
Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in 
Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No?

-V.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Freemasons et al mantras

2005-03-26 Thread johnlasher20002000


-I have heard from a mason that the bija mantras used in tm are also
in some of their designs or available, but they don't know what they
are. Is this true.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread lurkernomore20002000


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kenny H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

snip

Maharishi was very gracious to me in that way as
> well. The last few times I saw him he made it a point of letting me
> break through the throng trying to get his attention. Those were also
> special and meaningful moments to me.
> Ken

I didn't realize Ken, that you were in that select group of having 
taught 1000 plus people. I mean that kind of record should mean 
something to the CEO. What would you say is sports equivilent of that 
700 home runs in a career?  Come on.
> 

> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj

Hi Peter:

On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote:

> The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I
> agree upon something!


>  Sure, MMY appears to do some
> pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened
> status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques
> means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's
> all.

How would you know if they bore fruit for another or not unless you 
asked them (or possessed omniscience)? To quote Dr. Pete: "You can't 
claim to have the experience of others." How, therefore, can you assume 
to know mine? You know what happens when we assume?


>  Caste
> status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that
> the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no.

Well MMY shouldn't then claim to be adhering to the Dharma shastras as 
the 'lay of the land' and that we all have our natural place in the 
hierarchy of creation. He should then be denouncing them as 
antithetical to evolution of sentience. I don't honestly ever expect 
this to happen.

>  Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very
> big boys!
>

Indeed! Two billionaires and one infinitely rich.

-V.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote:
> > 
> >> He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate
> >> ceremony.
> > 
> > OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he 
have
> > a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony?
> 
> He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about 
an
> hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their 
heads
> and did other stuff.

*

MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they 
wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful 
in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 1:38 AM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > ***
> > 
> > Think that Bevan has ever slept at the foot of Maharishi's bed? I
> > prefer to think that you are kidding yourself, homey. Except 
possibly
> > for a handful of Brahmacharis like Nand Kishore, MMY simply does 
have
> > the closeness that he had with Guru Dev, about which he says:
> > 
> > "And from there on for me the whole thing was very light and
> > beautiful, no obstacles, clear, everything. Then I was living 
around
> > him without even feeling that I was living. It's a very genuine
> > feeling of complete oneness with Guru Dev, just like that. People 
who
> > have seen me moving with Guru Dev know I was not as if in this
> > isolated, single body or something. There was something of a
> > universal value."
> > 
> What makes you think that sleeping at the foot of the master's bed 
is an
> essential criterion of discipleship? Even if it were (which it 
isn't) what
> makes you think that Maharishi ever did this? As he told it, he 
didn't sleep
> much. He was always working.

I can't remember where I heard this about MMY sleeping at the foot of 
Guru Dev's bed -- maybe Paul Mason's book? In any event, what MMY had 
to say about his relationship with Guru Dev indicates a level of 
closeness (to say the least) that is obviously not involved in MMY's 
conduct with Bevan or others -- can you imagine Bevan saying (as MMY 
did above) that ""And from there on for me the whole thing was very 
light and beautiful, no obstacles, clear, everything. Then I was 
living around him without even feeling that I was living. It's a very 
genuine
feeling of complete oneness with Guru Dev, just like that. People who 
have seen me moving with Guru Dev know I was not as if in this
isolated, single body or something. There was something of a 
universal value."


> Maharishi has been very involved in the
> personal lives of some people, telling them what to wear, buying 
jewelry for
> the ladies - I have no doubt that Tony Nader's plastic surgery was 
M's idea.

You have no doubt, because it suits your agenda, but movement 
leaders, from Charlie Lutes in 1958 on, have always ended up doing 
what they wanted to do, regardless of any advice from MMY. If the 
John Grays and Chopras and Larry Domashes really regarded MMY as 
their Guru in the way that MMY did with Guru Dev, they would not have 
left.

> A few years ago Mike Tompkins wanted to marry Jeannie Costello. 
Maharishi
> said to him, "What can I offer you to dissuade you from doing 
this?" Now
> Mike is in Uttar Kashi and Jeannie appears very happy with a 
boyfriend here
> in Fairfield.

So what? Mike asked MMY's advice, he got it (and what would you 
expect a celibate monk to say? -- of course, MMY would say to not 
waste your life in the child's play of marriage, but gain 
enlightenment) and decided to follow it.

>Of course, I don't consider such personal involvement to be a
> necessary criterion of a Master-disciple relationship either. But 
the
> difference between most TMers, such is yourself, and someone like 
Bevan, is
> that you can only imagine what M says or does in his close 
relationships,
> whereas Bevan has had such a relationship most of his life. 

Bevan has had _a_ relationship with MMY, but it is so obviously not 
the intensely close relationship that MMY had with Guru Dev that you 
simply can't be serious if you are claiming that it is.

>Throughout many
> years they have talked almost every day, with Maharishi giving 
detailed
> instructions on Bevan's administrative activities.

I talk with the same people every day, and get instructions on my 
activities from my work supervisor, but this does not constitute a 
guru-disciple relationship, and neither does Bevan or others vis-a-
vis MMY.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> 
> > Why are you spreading lies Vaj?
> 
> I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I 
would be 
> lying if I told you any different.
> 


Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught 
in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over  a 
decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the 
fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.)


> >
> > TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. 
It is
> > legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be.
> 
> While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure 
> teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number 
one, I 
> don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number 
two, 
> eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church 
and 
> state. >>.


No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other 
religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law 
and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way 
that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade 
to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already 
crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will 
never support  an action against such a well scientifically 
documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving 
up your religion in any way.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You seem to be the only one that knows that, as there are no 
articles 
> on the Web that support that claim.
> 
> Sal
> 

Your mind is tuned to not find it. You'll need to cure yourself of 
that oneday (not a judgement, just a fact).
Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only 
one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR 
PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!)

http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html
"""Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique 
to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter 
school in Michigan <(and one in Baltimore)>.
Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a 
University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a 
difference in their daily lives.
"We have found that children who practice T.M. for at least three 
months period duration have better self-esteem, show higher affect, 
positive affect, show decreased negative feelings about themselves 
and are more adaptable in how they think about problems and 
situations," said Dr. Rita Benn, Ph.D. the University of Michigan 
researcher ."""


> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:26 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> 
> >
> >  Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public
> >  Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

> Why are you spreading lies Vaj?

I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I would be 
lying if I told you any different.

>
> TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is
> legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be.

While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure 
teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number one, I 
don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number two, 
eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church and 
state. The TMO is particularly crafty however at hiding their roots 
under scientific jargon.

Sadly, the people who are most likely to expose this will be 
fundamentalist or evangelical Christians.

-V.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Peter Sutphen

Nice experience Ken. I'm not a fanatic with Punditji
saying everyone must do his program or some such
thing, but if you like saints, go an see him if you
have the chance. It's usually a very nice expereince
at worst and a real life changer at best! We became
way to fanatic about other saints in the TMO as has
been pointed out in this group several times. Brahman
comes in all sorts of packages and flavors. Namaste to
them all.
-Peter

--- Kenny H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> An old dear friend, Richard Bradley, one of the
> wildest people to
> grace Fairfield in many a year, also moved to Bay
> area in the late
> '80s and became an ardent Punditji follower. He was
> forever trying to
> convince me to come and see Punditji when he came
> through the area,
> which was often way back when. Finally, just to shut
> Richard up I
> agreed to guy, I was prepared to sit and endure a
> few hours to make a
> friend happy. I was very pleasantly surprised by the
> delightful
> radiance, as you describe, that permeated the hall,
> and found myself
> increasinly lighthearted and happy as the time
> passed. It didn't make
> me want to become a devotee, but it was very
> uplifting I went up and
> met Punditji and spoke with him after and that was a
> real hit also. He
> was very accesible. Maharishi was very gracious to
> me in that way as
> well. The last few times I saw him he made it a
> point of letting me
> break through the throng trying to get his
> attention. Those were also
> special and meaningful moments to me.
> Ken
> 
>  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Exactly the same Rick. The personality is
> different:
> > Punditji is much more casual and personable. But
> that
> > amazing darshan of Brahman just radiates. I was
> > outside his room a two days ago right after he
> flew in
> > from India and he was taking a short nap, and the
> > Being, for lack of a better term, just rolled
> through
> > the hallway. It was great to just sit in That.
> Just
> > like MMY's darshan would profoundly shift my
> > consciousness, Punditji's does the same thing. The
> > next time he comes through the midwest, you should
> go
> > see him Rick. I know you'd really like him and
> would
> > appreciate that Being
> > -Peter
> > 
> > --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > on 3/26/05 3:32 PM, Peter Sutphen at
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft.
> > > Lauderdale
> > > > airport. Got to spend some time with him in
> his
> > > room
> > > > this morning just sitting in that amazing
> darshan.
> > > 
> > > Very subjective judgment, but how would you
> compare
> > > it with Maharishi's
> > > darshan?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To subscribe, send a message to:
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> > > 
> > > Or go to: 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
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> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> 
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote:

> The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I
> agree upon something! Sure, MMY appears to do some
> pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened
> status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques
> means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's
> all. Any point value can open to the infinite. Caste
> status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that
> the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. I'm
> happy your techniques and tradition bear fruit for
> you. I can say some pretty strong things regarding
> MMY's crazy and at times offensive behavior, but I
> never can doubt his status as a great realizer of
> Brahman. Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very
> big boys!

Was this addressed to me or off_world?



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[FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread Nelson


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> in the absence of facts and common sense, make up a rightwing nutter 
> conspiracy theory
snip
+  Iam sorry you seem to have the same problem as the judge in the
case.
  He does not look for or see the evidence in the case but then,
he is legally blind.   N





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread gullible fool

 
> Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. 

Few keep up with it for three years.

--- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> < a pop.
> That is criminal.>>>
> 
> 
> No its not. You are making this up.
> 
> Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. 
> Which is less than you drink in caffe lattes and
> internet connection 
> each day. 
> What kind of seeker is not willing to give up cafe
> lattes and go back 
> to dial up in order to evolve?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Or go to: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!' 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:
> 
> > Wrong.  TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have
> > religious overtones.
> 


> And of course you are correct Sal. >>.

Why are you spreading lies Vaj?
This is very suspicious. 
TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is 
legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. 







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Sal Sunshine
You seem to be the only one that knows that, as there are no articles on the Web that support that claim.

Sal


On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:26 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

 Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public 
 Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Peter Sutphen


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
> In a message dated 3/26/05 3:42:54 P.M. Central
> Standard Time,  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> hsummit.com writes:
> 
> on  3/26/05 3:32 PM, Peter Sutphen at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >  
> > Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft.
> Lauderdale
> > airport.  Got to spend some time with him in his
> room
> > this morning just sitting  in that amazing
> darshan.
> 
> Very subjective judgment, but how would you  compare
> it with Maharishi's
> darshan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't like to talk about my experiences much but
> the first  time I ever saw 
> Punditji the whole time I  was in the room with him 
> listening to him speak I 
> could see brilliant gold light pouring out of the
> top  of his head cascading 
> over his shoulders. It looked more like molting gold
> than  just light. I have 
> seen this with M. My impression was that this is
> what  MMY was like in his 
> youth.

I bet MMY is still that way.




> 



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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


<>>


No its not. You are making this up.

Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. 
Which is less than you drink in caffe lattes and internet connection 
each day. 
What kind of seeker is not willing to give up cafe lattes and go back 
to dial up in order to evolve?





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Peter Sutphen

Comment below:

--- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings
> wrote:
> > 
> > > Your just mad because TM gets taught in some
> public schools in the 
> US,
> > > gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded
> in research by the
> > > NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US
> army(I predict 
> within 2
> > > years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its
> efficacy than probably
> > > any other technique.
> > 
> > Why am I mad about this?
> 
> 
> Lol,
> Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with
> someone else, in 
> which case I apologize and somebody set me
> straight). You seemed to be 
> trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is
> not a true guru, 
> and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if
> asked to do so. You 
> also spend an awful lot of time trying to denounce
> him, and also TM as 
> being no good. You also spent an awful lot of time
> trying to convince 
> me that Buddha did not come from a Vedic tradition,
> and (on the other 
> hand in your dichotomous argument forms)even though
> he did, he 
> renounced it completely. Then you tell us that it is
> somehow of SUCH 
> GREAT IMPORTANCE if Maharishi was a Brahmin caste or
> what or is 
> qualified to be a teacher guru rishi sage .

The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I
agree upon something! Sure, MMY appears to do some
pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened
status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques
means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's
all. Any point value can open to the infinite. Caste
status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that
the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. I'm
happy your techniques and tradition bear fruit for
you. I can say some pretty strong things regarding
MMY's crazy and at times offensive behavior, but I
never can doubt his status as a great realizer of
Brahman. Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very
big boys!
-Peter 




.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread Nelson


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
> In a message dated 3/26/05 4:25:03 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> "Instead of serving to protect the assets of incapacitated  persons,
> the existing guardianship system presents the opportunity  for
> unscrupulous guardians to loot the assets of their wards and  enrich
> themselves with impunity." ˜ New York Grand  Jury
> 
> 
> 
> I listened to  Terri's father say last night that Michael  Schiavo
has now 
> spent about 600,000.00 of the million dollars awarded in 
malpractice to take 
> care of Terri, on his attorney, to have her killed instead  of using
it for her 
> rehabilitation over the years. Maybe Terri will rest easier  if she
knows 
> Michael ends up broke. By the way Nelson I guess you saw where 
Michael's attorney 
> contributed to Judge George Greer's re-election the day after 
Terri's law 
> was declared unconstitutional.
  Right- I guess it must be good business to keep their payments up to
date.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:

> Wrong.  TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have
> religious overtones.

And of course you are correct Sal. And it is a bizarre 
Neo-Hinduism--this is esp. easy to prove every since they took to 
selling Vedic sacrifices to the Gods and blatantly following the Laws 
of Manu!

-V.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public 
Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years. The first one 
I know of was in Washington DC, and goes back before the 1995 DC 
WPA. (of course the redneck fundie christians will never let it get 
widespread in Public schools, but it is not illegal to teach TM in 
public schools, and it never will be)


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wrong.  TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have 
> religious overtones.
> 
> "The 1977 court ruling, Malnak v. Yogi, dealt a serious blow to 
the 
> movement. TM appealed to the New Jersey State Supreme Court 
claiming 
> they were not teaching religion, but proven scientific techniques. 
The 
> Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After 
> several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the 
> beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the 
meditation 
> program. In spite of vigorous protest against claims that TM is a 
> religion, Bainbridge notes it is not mere coincidence that it is 
during 
> this period that the organization took new initiatives that 
focused on 
> "supernormal powers.""
> 
> http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/tm.html
> 
> And this:
> "However, after 1975, TM's fortunes took another turn. The "number 
of 
> new people taking TM courses dropped significantly" (Religious 
Fringe, 
> p. 206). In response, "the TM leadership announced an advanced 
program 
> which purported to teach meditators to levitate and to vanish at 
will" 
> (Ibid.). Such outrageous claims "tarnished the scientific image of 
TM" 
> which TM had strived to create and, as a result, the organization 
lost 
> credibility (Ibid.). When "a federal court ruled that TM was a 
> religious practice," and the ruling was upheld in the U.S. Court 
of 
> Appeals 3rd Dist. (Malnak v. Yogi), TM was then made "subject to 
the 
> establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution" (Religious Fringe, 
p. 
> 207), not only denying TM the privilege of receiving federal 
funds, but 
> preventing it from being taught in public schools, one of the key 
> markets for TM (Ibid.).
> 
> In addition to these setbacks, TM began to become criticized as 
> actually being harmful, rather than beneficial, to some TM 
> practitioners. In 1978, Psychology Today magazine reported that a 
> "`substantial number' of meditators developed anxiety, depression, 
> physical and mental tension and other adverse effects" (San 
Francisco 
> Examiner, September 10, 1989, p. E3). "In 1980, the West German 
> government's Institute for Youth and Society produced a report 
calling 
> TM a `psychogroup' and saying that the majority of people who went 
> through TM experienced psychological or physical disorders" 
(Edward 
> Epstein, "Politics and Transcendental Meditation," San Francisco 
> Chronicle, December 29, 1995, p. A1)"
> 
> http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/87.htm
> 
> I'd say that in referring to it as a 'psychogroup' they might have 
had 
> you in mind, off-world.
> 
> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:35 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> 
> >  TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your 
mind
> >  has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed !





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj

Hi Offie:

On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

> Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in
> which case I apologize and somebody set me straight).

I could not tell you where your confusion comes from! But I have an 
idea ;-)

>  You seemed to be
> trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is not a true guru,



No, I said MMY was not one for formally accepting sishyas. It now 
appears this may have been done on his personals assistants, possibly a 
few others--at having and helping make them Brahmacharis. The movement 
was at one time a good thing. Now it is much less so.

Raja Off World...kinda has a nice ring to it!


>
> and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if asked to do so.

Huh? That's a strange thing to say.

>
> You hate TM and Maharishi.

Huh?

> (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I
> apologize and somebody set me straight).

So apologize.


>
> Therefore , anything that seems like success of TM and Maharishi over
> your own movement that you want to start and lord it over everyone...
> you are mad about.

 Nah. I'm really not an angry person.

> For example: TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets
> taught to criminal offenders in Missourri by a judge who does not
> meditate, but has seen the postive effects of it, and TM is funded
> strongly (10's of millions) in research by the NIH, and has more
> ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique.
> Are you happy that this is the case?

I am happy that meditation is being taught. Doesn't matter if it is TM 
or an other. What DOES matter is if they are charging 2400 USD a pop. 
That is criminal. Better to use Vipassana like they do in India: 
cheaper, proven path to enlightenment and more bhang for your buck ;-). 
And of course it doesn't carry on the now rather weird baggage of the 
current TMO.

-V.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Sal Sunshine

Wrong.  TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have 
religious overtones.

"The 1977 court ruling, Malnak v. Yogi, dealt a serious blow to the 
movement. TM appealed to the New Jersey State Supreme Court claiming 
they were not teaching religion, but proven scientific techniques. The 
Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After 
several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the 
beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation 
program. In spite of vigorous protest against claims that TM is a 
religion, Bainbridge notes it is not mere coincidence that it is during 
this period that the organization took new initiatives that focused on 
"supernormal powers.""

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/tm.html

And this:
"However, after 1975, TM’s fortunes took another turn. The "number of 
new people taking TM courses dropped significantly" (Religious Fringe, 
p. 206). In response, "the TM leadership announced an advanced program 
which purported to teach meditators to levitate and to vanish at will" 
(Ibid.). Such outrageous claims "tarnished the scientific image of TM" 
which TM had strived to create and, as a result, the organization lost 
credibility (Ibid.). When "a federal court ruled that TM was a 
religious practice," and the ruling was upheld in the U.S. Court of 
Appeals 3rd Dist. (Malnak v. Yogi), TM was then made "subject to the 
establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution" (Religious Fringe, p. 
207), not only denying TM the privilege of receiving federal funds, but 
preventing it from being taught in public schools, one of the key 
markets for TM (Ibid.).

In addition to these setbacks, TM began to become criticized as 
actually being harmful, rather than beneficial, to some TM 
practitioners. In 1978, Psychology Today magazine reported that a 
"‘substantial number’ of meditators developed anxiety, depression, 
physical and mental tension and other adverse effects" (San Francisco 
Examiner, September 10, 1989, p. E3). "In 1980, the West German 
government’s Institute for Youth and Society produced a report calling 
TM a ‘psychogroup’ and saying that the majority of people who went 
through TM experienced psychological or physical disorders" (Edward 
Epstein, "Politics and Transcendental Meditation," San Francisco 
Chronicle, December 29, 1995, p. A1)"

http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/87.htm

I'd say that in referring to it as a 'psychogroup' they might have had 
you in mind, off-world.


On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:35 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

>  TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind
>  has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed !



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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


WOW !
This really goes to how out of touch and prejuduced you really are. 
No wonder you are always badmouthing TM.

TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind 
has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed !
Secondly TM is taught in a Public school in a Chicago with great 
success, and in a public school in, I think Baltimore. There may be 
others. Those public school principles that have used it are very 
happy with it.
I can't find the whole article , but last year TIME magazine had an 
article on meditation, and probably half the cases they talked about 
(incuding the Chicago public school) were about TM.
http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101030804,00.html

TM is also given by a non-maditating judge in Missourri to criminal 
offenders. He is VERY impressed with the results


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Which public schools?  Wasn't there a court case a while back in 
which 
> TM was shown to have religious content and therefore could not be 
> taught in *any* public schools?  If that's changed, I don't think 
> anyone else knows about it.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote:
> 
> > TM gets taught in some public schools in the US





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[FairfieldLife] GROUP PRAYER

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


Whatever your beliefs about the Teri Schaivo case, lets all together 
now pray for the most evolutionary outcome to occur. 
A group prayer from the minds that have been on a strong spiritual 
track for decades. No judgement or personal desire. Lets just pray now 
for the righteous thing for Teri and all involved





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Sal Sunshine
Which public schools?  Wasn't there a court case a while back in which TM was shown to have religious content and therefore could not be taught in *any* public schools?  If that's changed, I don't think anyone else knows about it.

Sal


On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote:

TM gets taught in some public schools in the US

[FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<<< Got to spend some time with him in his room
> this morning just sitting in that amazing darshan. Then we all 
went and had lunch and told Punditji and MMY stories.>>

And then you all went to the Kareoke bar and Pundtji sang Bob 
Marley's 'Redemtion Songs'. (just kidding !. When I read it in my 
tired state I thought Punditji went to lunch with you, and you told 
stories over cafe lattes:-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread anonymousff


in the absence of facts and common sense, make up a rightwing nutter 
conspiracy theory

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -- Forwarded Message
> From: Nelson  and Mary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:24:42 -0600
> To: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Fw: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo
> 
> Hey Rick,
>  I didn't know how to clean up this message and put it on ffl.
>   Maybe itis too long  but at least read it and then decide.
>These people make Jack Kavorkian look like a boy scout- he must 
be proud
> of them.   Thanks,  N.
> - Original Message -
> From: Susan Bush 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:09 AM
> Subject: Fw: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo
> 
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: acm 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:47 AM
> Subject: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo
> 
> 
> I found this on the web...very interesting even if lengthy. From 
Anna
> 
> From: acm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo
> 
> Thursday, March 17, 2005
> 
> What's REALLY Driving the Death Train for Terri! EXPLOSIVE
> Revelations About Judge Greer and Pinellas County "Guardians!"
> "Outside of execution, guardianship is the most radical remedy we
> have." — Elias Cohen, Philadelphia Attorney and Gerontologist
> Is Pinellas County using guardianship as a cover for robbing the
> handicapped and elderly?
> If you had found a way to steal thousands of dollars from wealthy
> elderly, where would you find the most victims? Yes, Florida is the
> first state that comes to my mind.
> I never bought into the "right to die" thing. It is as much spin as
> the term "reproductive rights" is for abortion. "Right to die" is
> spin, but spin for what? While I know evil exists and admit I can't
> understand the rational of being in favor of killing people; I felt
> there just had to be more than a pro-death "belief." I think I found
> what is behind this "belief." It isn't about death with dignity. I
> think you will be shocked and horrified at what I found.
> Pinellas County Internal Auditor, Robert W. Melton has been assigned
> by Florida legislators to address guardianship reform. He
> says, "….the practices I have seen in the short time I have been
> involved in guardianships is shocking. It is time to put an end to
> unscrupulous practices at the expense of our state's most vulnerable
> citizens."
> Court appointed professional guardians in Pinellas County have a
> great system going under the protection of judges like George Greer.
> Most of these guardians handle cases for wards who are mentally or
> physically incapable of doing so themselves. Even though Michael
> Schiavo is not a "professional" guardian, this case will set a
> precedent for the treatment of the disabled. Right now the abuse 
robs
> these people of their life savings and assets, while accusing family
> members of being the greedy ones and these "guardians" are
> only "protecting" these vulnerable citizens.
> A GREAT example of how they operate to gain guardianship and
> then "protect" their wards is below.
> Here are just 10 of the "dirty tricks," as outlined by Pinellas
> County Internal Auditor Robert W.
> Melton:http://www.justiceforfloridaseniors.org/dirty-guardian-
> tricks.html
> Guardian creation of a trust: Remove all oversight by the court as a
> provision of the trust agreement; guardian becomes trustee; provide
> that the trustee can do whatever they want at their sole discretion.
> Sell real estate at lowball price: Use "lowball" valuations as a
> benchmark; don't list property with Realtors; sell to a land trust,
> where nobody knows the beneficiary; watch property resold a few
> months later for a huge increase.
> Maximize your (or your crony's) profit from investments: Hire money
> manager for "financial expertise" and let the manager select an
> investment broker; invest in volatile stocks and trade frequently to
> generate commissions; if you run up a large gain, don't selectively
> liquidate over time to pay the taxes but hold a "fire sale" to raise
> funds all in one day.
> Undervalue beginning inventory: Have a used-furniture "friend" value
> a house full of antiques for $3,000; "forget" to put some of the 
more
> expensive items on the inventory; "forget" to include a $40,000
> certificate of deposit.
> Pay yourself first: Make payment of guardian and attorney fees the
> highest priority; disregard mortgage payments and let ward's home go
> into foreclosure; squirrel away money in the attorney's escrow
> account for possible future expenses.
> Maintain guardianship at all costs: Keep family members uninformed;
> if family members try to become guardian, accuse them of stealing;
> use the ward's assets for legal fights to retain guardianship.
> Improper financial reporting: Bury 

[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread off_world_beings


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote:
> 
> > Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the 
US,
> > gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the
> > NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict 
within 2
> > years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably
> > any other technique.
> 
> Why am I mad about this?


Lol,
Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in 
which case I apologize and somebody set me straight). You seemed to be 
trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is not a true guru, 
and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if asked to do so. You 
also spend an awful lot of time trying to denounce him, and also TM as 
being no good. You also spent an awful lot of time trying to convince 
me that Buddha did not come from a Vedic tradition, and (on the other 
hand in your dichotomous argument forms)even though he did, he 
renounced it completely. Then you tell us that it is somehow of SUCH 
GREAT IMPORTANCE if Maharishi was a Brahmin caste or what or is 
qualified to be a teacher guru rishi sage .
You hate TM and Maharishi.
(Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I 
apologize and somebody set me straight). 

Therefore , anything that seems like success of TM and Maharishi over 
your own movement that you want to start and lord it over everyone... 
you are mad about. 
For example: TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets 
taught to criminal offenders in Missourri by a judge who does not 
meditate, but has seen the postive effects of it, and TM is funded 
strongly (10's of millions) in research by the NIH, and has more 
ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique.
Are you happy that this is the case?
It ok, it makes a lot of people on this board mad too.
(oops , I just set the cat among the pidgeonswho!)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Bob Brigante


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > So the other Shankaracharyas are chopped liver? The
> > fact that Swaroop had face time with Guru Dev doesn't
> > mean anything. Guru Dev's master had many disciples,
> > but we only hear about Guru Dev because good disciples
> > are few and far between. In other traditions, Judas
> > was a disciple, too, but just not a very good one. I
> > would suggest the litmus test for whether Swaroopanand
> > is a legitimate Shankaracharya would be if he supports
> > Maharishi's campaign to enlighten the world -- since
> > he obviously does not, then darkness has placed him in
> > a seat that his level of consciousness does not
> > qualify him for.
> 
> Swaroopanand Ji was not just another devotee, he was one of the 
inner 
> circle of chelas.
> 
> There are several very useful books available of Shantanand Ji, 
> another of Gurudev's chelas,  from the Study Society. 
> 
> But the test of a good disciple of Gurudev is not necessarilly 
> that 'we' hear about them. 
> 


> And actually 'we' do not hear about Guru Dev. That is why he has 
his 
> own webpage on my site
> http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm



As a matter of fact, Guru Dev was so very well-known in India that 
the first President of India paid tribute to him. 

Swaroopanand is strictly power-hungry, claiming title to not one, but 
two seats of the Shankaracharya tradition, and seeking to unseat the 
current Kanchi seer, in order to magnify his power. But regardless of 
whether Swaroopananda is any good or not, the original post was about 
the fact that Vedic instruction was associated with a preceptor's 
fee, the Gurudakshina, which is easily verified with examples like 
Krishna's payment to his guru. 

Claiming that MMY is breaking with Vedic tradition by front-loading 
the preceptor's fee for Vedic instruction (which is far more 
than "selling a mantra") is nonsense, and you have failed to 
acknowledge that.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 5:00:12 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Okay.  You go to the Front of The 
Line!lurk

Aw shucks!


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 4:33:19 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Maybe 
  this whole Schiavo thing is symbolic-omenious for North-Americaat this 
  time..Do we kill her or let her stay with us, hoping for 
  improvement..?

There will probably be some very important and thoughtful 
revision in such laws that allow this to happen. And more people will right a 
living will.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 4:25:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"Instead of serving to protect the assets of incapacitated 
  persons,the existing guardianship system presents the opportunity 
  forunscrupulous guardians to loot the assets of their wards and 
  enrichthemselves with impunity." Ë New York Grand 
Jury

I listened to  Terri's father say last night that Michael 
Schiavo has now spent about 600,000.00 of the million dollars awarded in 
malpractice to take care of Terri, on his attorney, to have her killed instead 
of using it for her rehabilitation over the years. Maybe Terri will rest easier 
if she knows Michael ends up broke. By the way Nelson I guess you saw where 
Michael's attorney contributed to Judge George Greer's re-election the day after 
Terri's law was declared unconstitutional.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread lurkernomore20002000


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
> 
>I don't like to talk about my experiences much but the first  time I 
ever saw 
> Punditji the whole time I  was in the room with him  listening to 
him speak I 
> could see brilliant gold light pouring out of the top  of his head 
cascading 
> over his shoulders. It looked more like molting gold than  just 
light. I have 
> seen this with M. My impression was that this is what  MMY was like 
in his 
> youth.

Okay.  You go to the Front of The Line!

lurk





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread akasha_108


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just like MMY's darshan would profoundly shift my
> consciousness, Punditji's does the same thing.

Well even though Dr Pete seems to have left the room, or his mind body
perhaps has been inhabited by aliens of the dark-side persuasion, his
message must still live on: 

"You are making a fundamental mistake, A hige epistemological
mistake. Pure Consciousness does not shift. Consciousness identifed
with the mind, creating a false sense of ego, shifts all the time. But
this is not Consciousness reflecting its true nature. It is ignorance. 

 Consciousness experienceing Consciousness, just IS. To claim no
individuality, and to just be Consciousness, and then to speak of
Consciousness shifting is absurd and indicates a lack of real
experience. You are using waking state dharma to talk about the domain
of Consciousness. Consciousness has its own domain, its own dharma.
Don't confuse the two or you will be trapped in an utter maze of
eternal ignorance." 

Channeling the former, real, no-self, Dr. Pete 

:)






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 3:42:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
on 
  3/26/05 3:32 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> 
  > Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft. Lauderdale> airport. 
  Got to spend some time with him in his room> this morning just sitting 
  in that amazing darshan.Very subjective judgment, but how would you 
  compare it with Maharishi'sdarshan?

I don't like to talk about my experiences much but the first 
time I ever saw Punditji the whole time I  was in the room with him 
listening to him speak I could see brilliant gold light pouring out of the top 
of his head cascading over his shoulders. It looked more like molting gold than 
just light. I have seen this with M. My impression was that this is what 
MMY was like in his youth.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread peterklutz



Maybe this whole Schiavo thing is symbolic-omenious for North-America
at this time..

Do we kill her or let her stay with us, hoping for improvement..?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Kenny H


An old dear friend, Richard Bradley, one of the wildest people to
grace Fairfield in many a year, also moved to Bay area in the late
'80s and became an ardent Punditji follower. He was forever trying to
convince me to come and see Punditji when he came through the area,
which was often way back when. Finally, just to shut Richard up I
agreed to guy, I was prepared to sit and endure a few hours to make a
friend happy. I was very pleasantly surprised by the delightful
radiance, as you describe, that permeated the hall, and found myself
increasinly lighthearted and happy as the time passed. It didn't make
me want to become a devotee, but it was very uplifting I went up and
met Punditji and spoke with him after and that was a real hit also. He
was very accesible. Maharishi was very gracious to me in that way as
well. The last few times I saw him he made it a point of letting me
break through the throng trying to get his attention. Those were also
special and meaningful moments to me.
Ken

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Exactly the same Rick. The personality is different:
> Punditji is much more casual and personable. But that
> amazing darshan of Brahman just radiates. I was
> outside his room a two days ago right after he flew in
> from India and he was taking a short nap, and the
> Being, for lack of a better term, just rolled through
> the hallway. It was great to just sit in That. Just
> like MMY's darshan would profoundly shift my
> consciousness, Punditji's does the same thing. The
> next time he comes through the midwest, you should go
> see him Rick. I know you'd really like him and would
> appreciate that Being
> -Peter
> 
> --- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > on 3/26/05 3:32 PM, Peter Sutphen at
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft.
> > Lauderdale
> > > airport. Got to spend some time with him in his
> > room
> > > this morning just sitting in that amazing darshan.
> > 
> > Very subjective judgment, but how would you compare
> > it with Maharishi's
> > darshan?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Or go to: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > and click 'Join This Group!' 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 4:16:28 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Of 
  course! I didn't have the context. But do you thinkthe KKK rides with silk 
  and 100% cotton sheets? Theyalways seemed to be the 60/40 polyester crowd 
  to me.-Peter

Back in the "good 'ol days" they had cotton and silk with 
plenty of starch to keep those hats nice 'n 
pointy!


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[FairfieldLife] [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer
Title: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo





-- Forwarded Message
From: Nelson  and Mary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:24:42 -0600
To: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fw: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

Hey Rick,
 I didn't know how to clean up this message and put it on ffl.
  Maybe itis too long  but at least read it and then decide.
   These people make Jack Kavorkian look like a boy scout- he must be proud 
of them.   Thanks,  N.
- Original Message - 
From: Susan Bush   
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:09 AM
Subject: Fw: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

 
- Original Message - 
From: acm   
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:47 AM
Subject: [CTN-Jogues] Fwd: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo


I found this on the web...very interesting even if lengthy. From Anna

From: acm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Guardianship & Theresa Schiavo

Thursday, March 17, 2005

What's REALLY Driving the Death Train for Terri! EXPLOSIVE
Revelations About Judge Greer and Pinellas County "Guardians!"
"Outside of execution, guardianship is the most radical remedy we
have." ˜ Elias Cohen, Philadelphia Attorney and Gerontologist
Is Pinellas County using guardianship as a cover for robbing the
handicapped and elderly?
If you had found a way to steal thousands of dollars from wealthy
elderly, where would you find the most victims? Yes, Florida is the
first state that comes to my mind.
I never bought into the "right to die" thing. It is as much spin as
the term "reproductive rights" is for abortion. "Right to die" is
spin, but spin for what? While I know evil exists and admit I can't
understand the rational of being in favor of killing people; I felt
there just had to be more than a pro-death "belief." I think I found
what is behind this "belief." It isn't about death with dignity. I
think you will be shocked and horrified at what I found.
Pinellas County Internal Auditor, Robert W. Melton has been assigned
by Florida legislators to address guardianship reform. He
says, "∑.the practices I have seen in the short time I have been
involved in guardianships is shocking. It is time to put an end to
unscrupulous practices at the expense of our state's most vulnerable
citizens."
Court appointed professional guardians in Pinellas County have a
great system going under the protection of judges like George Greer.
Most of these guardians handle cases for wards who are mentally or
physically incapable of doing so themselves. Even though Michael
Schiavo is not a "professional" guardian, this case will set a
precedent for the treatment of the disabled. Right now the abuse robs
these people of their life savings and assets, while accusing family
members of being the greedy ones and these "guardians" are
only "protecting" these vulnerable citizens.
A GREAT example of how they operate to gain guardianship and
then "protect" their wards is below.
Here are just 10 of the "dirty tricks," as outlined by Pinellas
County Internal Auditor Robert W.
Melton:http://www.justiceforfloridaseniors.org/dirty-guardian-
tricks.html
Guardian creation of a trust: Remove all oversight by the court as a
provision of the trust agreement; guardian becomes trustee; provide
that the trustee can do whatever they want at their sole discretion.
Sell real estate at lowball price: Use "lowball" valuations as a
benchmark; don't list property with Realtors; sell to a land trust,
where nobody knows the beneficiary; watch property resold a few
months later for a huge increase.
Maximize your (or your crony's) profit from investments: Hire money
manager for "financial expertise" and let the manager select an
investment broker; invest in volatile stocks and trade frequently to
generate commissions; if you run up a large gain, don't selectively
liquidate over time to pay the taxes but hold a "fire sale" to raise
funds all in one day.
Undervalue beginning inventory: Have a used-furniture "friend" value
a house full of antiques for $3,000; "forget" to put some of the more
expensive items on the inventory; "forget" to include a $40,000
certificate of deposit.
Pay yourself first: Make payment of guardian and attorney fees the
highest priority; disregard mortgage payments and let ward's home go
into foreclosure; squirrel away money in the attorney's escrow
account for possible future expenses.
Maintain guardianship at all costs: Keep family members uninformed;
if family members try to become guardian, accuse them of stealing;
use the ward's assets for legal fights to retain guardianship.
Improper financial reporting: Bury asset-management and brokerage
fees as aggregate capital losses "due to market fluctuations"; don't
classify disbursements separately; file incomplete or incorrect safe-
deposit box inventories.
Forced incompetency: Visit assisted-living facilities and establish
employee contacts; obtain voluntary limited financial guardianship;
if there is

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 11:10 AM, Rick Archer wrote:

> He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about 
> an
> hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their 
> heads
> and did other stuff.
>

Thanks for sharing that--that was beautiful to hear.

I don't want to give people the impression that I am anti-TM, I just 
feel the movement has lost it's impetus as an evolutionary agent. 
Therefore I do not recommend people take initiation there unless they 
really feel some personal draw--and can afford it.

I had a personal time of deep, deep devotion to MMY which culminated in 
what I can only call 'meeting Maharishi in consciousness'. The tension 
which had built up of deep unanswered questions was released, as was 
anything else I could gain from that movement. I was like I was set 
free. Answers I desired just presented themselves.

Best,

-V.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Peter Sutphen


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
> In a message dated 3/26/05 4:06:43 P.M. Central
> Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> Robert  Byrd?
> 
> 
> 
> Senator of West Virginia, "former" Grand Klegel of
> the Ku Klux  Klan.

Of course! I didn't have the context. But do you think
the KKK rides with silk and 100% cotton sheets? They
always seemed to be the 60/40 polyester crowd to me.
-Peter


> 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Peter Sutphen

Exactly the same Rick. The personality is different:
Punditji is much more casual and personable. But that
amazing darshan of Brahman just radiates. I was
outside his room a two days ago right after he flew in
from India and he was taking a short nap, and the
Being, for lack of a better term, just rolled through
the hallway. It was great to just sit in That. Just
like MMY's darshan would profoundly shift my
consciousness, Punditji's does the same thing. The
next time he comes through the midwest, you should go
see him Rick. I know you'd really like him and would
appreciate that Being
-Peter

--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> on 3/26/05 3:32 PM, Peter Sutphen at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft.
> Lauderdale
> > airport. Got to spend some time with him in his
> room
> > this morning just sitting in that amazing darshan.
> 
> Very subjective judgment, but how would you compare
> it with Maharishi's
> darshan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 4:11:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Mar 
  26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote:> Your just mad 
  because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US,> gets taught 
  to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the> NIH, and is 
  soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2> years), and 
  has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably> any other 
  technique.Why am I mad about this?

Just because!


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 4:06:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Robert 
  Byrd?

Senator of West Virginia, "former" Grand Klegel of the Ku Klux 
Klan.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Vaj


On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote:

> Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US,
> gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the
> NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2
> years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably
> any other technique.

Why am I mad about this?




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Peter Sutphen


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  
> In a message dated 3/26/05 3:32:41 P.M. Central
> Standard Time,  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> His  "skin boy" gave me all of
> Punditji's bedding and cooking pots to wash and 
> keep
> for when he comes back the next time. Then we all
> went
> and had  lunch and told Punditji and MMY stories.
> Pretty cool time. Ronnie and Steve  say hello to
> everybody who they might know on this newsgroup.
> 
> -Peter  (keeper of the sheets and pots) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh just think of the full regalia that could be
> made from  those sheets! 
> Robert Byrd would have chills running up his  spine!

Robert Byrd?


> 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread MDixon6569






In a message dated 3/26/05 3:32:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
His 
  "skin boy" gave me all ofPunditji's bedding and cooking pots to wash and 
  keepfor when he comes back the next time. Then we all wentand had 
  lunch and told Punditji and MMY stories.Pretty cool time. Ronnie and Steve 
  say hello toeverybody who they might know on this newsgroup.-Peter 
  (keeper of the sheets and pots) 

Oh just think of the full regalia that could be made from 
those sheets! Robert Byrd would have chills running up his 
spine!


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 3:32 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft. Lauderdale
> airport. Got to spend some time with him in his room
> this morning just sitting in that amazing darshan.

Very subjective judgment, but how would you compare it with Maharishi's
darshan?





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[FairfieldLife] Back from Pundiji

2005-03-26 Thread Peter Sutphen

Well, Pundiji left this morning from Ft. Lauderdale
airport. Got to spend some time with him in his room
this morning just sitting in that amazing darshan.
Then everyone went downstairs to a larger room for a
brief satsang with the local Art of Living people.
Drove the Indian people traveling with him to the
airport. It was fun watching people react to him in
the airport. Went back to his room and cleaned up with
several others. His "skin boy" gave me all of
Punditji's bedding and cooking pots to wash and keep
for when he comes back the next time. Then we all went
and had lunch and told Punditji and MMY stories.
Pretty cool time. Ronnie and Steve say hello to
everybody who they might know on this newsgroup.

-Peter (keeper of the sheets and pots) 




> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Brahman, Turiya and Awakening

2005-03-26 Thread Rory Goff



> > Tom T:
> > Like I said above we may be on different pages of the akashic
> records. There is no small self here, 
> 
> Akasha:
> A CC experience

Rory: Yes and no -- as I see it anyhow, when one is in C.C., one 
would not be particularly aware of the Ahamkara, even though it 
filters and mediates between the experience of Purusha (Absolute) 
and Prakriti (Relative). It would be the one still "claiming" the 
experience; one's own sense of individuality or soul. In C.C. and 
G.C. and even in U.C., this one is still there. It thinks it is 
having "experiences" of C.C., G.C., and U.C. 

Only in B.C. does one actually notice this Ahamkara intensely -- by 
its sudden absence. Only then do we see that it was indeed a small 
self; before that we thought it was the Absolute. Only in B.C. do we 
actually "get" that it actually had limitations, when we are 
suddenly confronted with ourselves as the Great Immensity, not other 
than the relative "out there." This is the first time EVERYTHING is 
utterly the same: ground state; THAT; no small self distinguishing 
between Absolute and Relative. 

Unfortunately if one still functions through the small self, one is 
going to interpret everything a B.C. experiencer says in terms of 
the states one actually knows: Sleep, Dream, Waking, C.C., G.C., and 
U.C. You have noted that Tom appears to you to be sliding around 
between C.C. and U.C. To use my conic-sections model, one could 
hypothesize that this is because you may still be interpreting his 3-
D cone with a 2-D lens. If you take EVERYTHING he says as 
descriptions of the same state, rather than saying, "this sounds 
like C.C.; this sounds maybe like U.C.," you will be getting closer 
to what he is getting at. B.C. is "slippery;" it is the field of 
paradox; it is bigger than you are. It contains all the component 
states simultaneously. You never really "get" it; it "gets" you. 
*lol*
 
> > Tom T:
> there is no inner wakefulness. 
> 
> Akasha:
> A CC experience, depending on semantics. There is no spatial 
boundary
> to wakefulness in CC. 

Rory:
B.C. -- describing its peculiar "ignorance"/U.C. aspects.
 
> Tom T:
> > It is all out there. Every where I look it is me. It is all 
subject.
> > Object shows up only when attention is paid. 
> 
> Akasha:
> Others may best comment on this. To me it appears to fit UC, not 
BC.
> And depending on semantics, could be an expression of experience 
in CC 

Rory:
Most certainly not any C.C. I am familiar with. This is again B.C. 
described through the U.C. plane. Any time you try to describe the 
indescribable, you're only getting a piece of the picture. Take them 
all together, simultaneously, or throw them all out, and bingo! 
Bob's your Uncle. 

> Tom T:
> If this is all me who the hell is left to
> > witness, observe or take note. I am it all, experiencing myself 
as
> > experience. 
> 
> Akasha:
> The above seems to contrast with your prior statement, and a 
number of
>  similar statements in recent posts " What happens in the relative 
is
> of, for and by the relative."  If IT is all you, then there is no
> relative. 

Rory:
Actually, not true. It IS all Tom, and it IS all Absolute, and it IS 
all Relative, and NONE of the above. Simultaneously. See? B.C. Who 
encompasses all the various experiences?

Akasha:
Given your strong dualistic statments in other places, the
> statement immediately above " If this is all me who the hell is 
left
> to > witness, observe or take note. I am it all, experiencing 
myself
> as experience" could be seen as a dualistic observation of CC. 

Rory:
"If this is all me" should be a give-away that Tom is not describing 
C.C. Again, taking this statement with all the other seemingly 
contradictory (strongly dualistic) statements simultaneously (or 
throwing them all out) will do the trick. That way you will "get" 
Tom-Brahman -- or actually He will "get" you. :-)

LLL,
Rory







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread rudra_joe





About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During 
thedream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has 
beengoing. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the 
dream,but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that 
Ihad brought the matter up. I wasn't looking for a confession; sincethis 
is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted toknow what 
was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, Ishould have 
asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. It's not often that Ihave dreams about 
him. I may have to wait several months or evenanother year before he shows 
up in my dream. Peace,MarcIn dreams since it is all a 
reflection of your mind, you were Maharishi and you were your regrets. You also 
felt the need to know the truth over enlightenment even, whatever that signifys 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 2:25 PM, medwards520 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi Rick,
> 
> About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the
> dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been
> going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream,
> but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I
> had brought the matter up.

Ask that kind of question in the waking state in Vlodrop and you'll find
yourself booted out of there pretty quick.

>I wasn't looking for a confession; since
> this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to
> know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I
> should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment.

Do you think he could have granted it?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread medwards520


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 6:39 AM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming
> > clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an
> > outer relationship with the guru. The outer
> > relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell
> > absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the
> > outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the
> > inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated
> > "renegade" TM teacher has with MMY. The inner
> > relationship is the important one and that is
> > profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the
> > guru).
> > -Peter  
> > 
> And someone physically distant from the guru may in reality be much
closer
> than someone physically close.

Hi Rick,

About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the
dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been
going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream,
but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I
had brought the matter up. I wasn't looking for a confession; since
this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to
know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I
should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. It's not often that I
have dreams about him. I may have to wait several months or even
another year before he shows up in my dream. 

Peace,
Marc





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is Maharishi a Guru?

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

on 3/26/05 12:31 PM, Kenny H at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Rick
> What is Shannon up to now?

He lives out in Hawaii now. He had polio as a child - his inoculation gave
it to him - and this led to complications later in life which qualify him
for Medicare support or something like that. He also writes reviews of high
end audio equipment for Hi-Fi magazines. He's a very articulate writer in
expressing his understanding/experience of "Unicity", as he calls it (i.e.,
an Advaitin sort of perspective on things) which has dawned in him in the
last year or two.

>How long did his brahmachari lifestyle
> last? 

A few years.

>Did the others, Billy Clayton, Rob, et al, also get this
> particular initiation?

I think so.

> Ken
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Shannon Dickson's report on his Brahmachari initiation:
>> 
>> Hi Rick,
>> Regarding my Brahmacharya initiation by MMY, it was a lovely
> ceremony late
>> one night in Majorca. He had the large picture of Guru Dev above a
> puja set
>> in his room at the Hotel Samoa, and when I came in the room he had
> me sit on
>> the floor on a skin at his feet and he told me about the
> significance of the
>> master-disciple relationship and other such things for a good while
> and then
>> he had me perform the puja in front of the almost life-size painting
> of Guru
>> Dev with him sitting over my shoulder and afterward gave me a new
> recluse
>> mantra, we then meditated about 15 minutes with the new mantra, and
> then had
>> me systematically sit facing the north, south, east and west with my
> eyes
>> closed while he was chanting some different Sanskrit at each of the
>> different compass directions that I was sitting, and while placing
> his hand
>> on the top my head. He then bent down and whispered some more
> Sanskrit into
>> my ear other than the mantra and the whole thing lasted around 45
> minutes to
>> an hour or so. And afterward, he told me to stop rounding and just
> serve him
>> from then on. It was after that that Billy, Louis and I took over
> from Rob,
>> Casey and Ned as his personal secretaries handling his daily affairs and
>> schedule and taking care of him. Regarding my meditation, he said
> ³if there
>> was time to close the eyes during the day for a brief while that was
>> alright, but that it wasn¹t necessary as my devotion and service to him
>> would be enough².
>>  
>> I was 19 years old, a few months shy of 20, and went from 13 to 15
> hours a
>> day of rounding to about 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night tops, and
> almost no
>> meditation in no time, and we ran on the pure adrenaline of youthful
>> enthusiasm and joy of talking care of MMY 24/7. That whole time with
> him, at
>> that peak time of the movement, was a marvelous experience!
>>  
>> Take care,
>> Shannon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe, send a message to:
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> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 

--
 
Rick Archer
SearchSummit
1108 South B Street
Fairfield, IA 52556
Phone: 641-472-9336

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is Maharishi a Guru?

2005-03-26 Thread Kenny H


Rick
What is Shannon up to now? How long did his brahmachari lifestyle
last? Did the others, Billy Clayton, Rob, et al, also get this
particular initiation? 
Ken

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Shannon Dickson's report on his Brahmachari initiation:
> 
> Hi Rick,
> Regarding my Brahmacharya initiation by MMY, it was a lovely
ceremony late
> one night in Majorca. He had the large picture of Guru Dev above a
puja set
> in his room at the Hotel Samoa, and when I came in the room he had
me sit on
> the floor on a skin at his feet and he told me about the
significance of the
> master-disciple relationship and other such things for a good while
and then
> he had me perform the puja in front of the almost life-size painting
of Guru
> Dev with him sitting over my shoulder and afterward gave me a new
recluse
> mantra, we then meditated about 15 minutes with the new mantra, and
then had
> me systematically sit facing the north, south, east and west with my
eyes
> closed while he was chanting some different Sanskrit at each of the
> different compass directions that I was sitting, and while placing
his hand
> on the top my head. He then bent down and whispered some more
Sanskrit into
> my ear other than the mantra and the whole thing lasted around 45
minutes to
> an hour or so. And afterward, he told me to stop rounding and just
serve him
> from then on. It was after that that Billy, Louis and I took over
from Rob,
> Casey and Ned as his personal secretaries handling his daily affairs and
> schedule and taking care of him. Regarding my meditation, he said
³if there
> was time to close the eyes during the day for a brief while that was
> alright, but that it wasn¹t necessary as my devotion and service to him
> would be enough². 
>  
> I was 19 years old, a few months shy of 20, and went from 13 to 15
hours a
> day of rounding to about 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night tops, and
almost no
> meditation in no time, and we ran on the pure adrenaline of youthful
> enthusiasm and joy of talking care of MMY 24/7. That whole time with
him, at
> that peak time of the movement, was a marvelous experience!
>  
> Take care,
> Shannon





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[FairfieldLife] Is Maharishi a Guru?

2005-03-26 Thread Rick Archer

Shannon Dickson's report on his Brahmachari initiation:

Hi Rick,
Regarding my Brahmacharya initiation by MMY, it was a lovely ceremony late
one night in Majorca. He had the large picture of Guru Dev above a puja set
in his room at the Hotel Samoa, and when I came in the room he had me sit on
the floor on a skin at his feet and he told me about the significance of the
master-disciple relationship and other such things for a good while and then
he had me perform the puja in front of the almost life-size painting of Guru
Dev with him sitting over my shoulder and afterward gave me a new recluse
mantra, we then meditated about 15 minutes with the new mantra, and then had
me systematically sit facing the north, south, east and west with my eyes
closed while he was chanting some different Sanskrit at each of the
different compass directions that I was sitting, and while placing his hand
on the top my head. He then bent down and whispered some more Sanskrit into
my ear other than the mantra and the whole thing lasted around 45 minutes to
an hour or so. And afterward, he told me to stop rounding and just serve him
from then on. It was after that that Billy, Louis and I took over from Rob,
Casey and Ned as his personal secretaries handling his daily affairs and
schedule and taking care of him. Regarding my meditation, he said ³if there
was time to close the eyes during the day for a brief while that was
alright, but that it wasn¹t necessary as my devotion and service to him
would be enough². 
 
I was 19 years old, a few months shy of 20, and went from 13 to 15 hours a
day of rounding to about 4 to 5 hours of sleep a night tops, and almost no
meditation in no time, and we ran on the pure adrenaline of youthful
enthusiasm and joy of talking care of MMY 24/7. That whole time with him, at
that peak time of the movement, was a marvelous experience!
 
Take care,
Shannon





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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.

2005-03-26 Thread Kenny H


So Maharishi performed some type of "official" ceremony so a handful
of people could be officially called disciples, big whoop. Is there a
rulebook that describes a guru-disciple relationship? If so does it
specifically void relationships that are absent this.some ceremony?
Isn't the guru disciple relationship based on something more than a
ceremony? I would imagine the entirety of purusha and mother divine
would claim they have a direct guru-disciple relationship with
Maharishi. I would imagine that the dedicated staff/faculty members at
MUM would cliam a guru-disciple relationship. The same for the
well-to-do who have lived in FF for many years now and offer money
whenever money is needed. Maharishi may not descrbe these people as
his disciples but I can't imagine that it is anything but. They look
to him for guidance in every aspect of their lives, they imagine,
based on the "knowing me in your heart" that M has described, his
thoughts on every issue. And Maharishi is not lacking in advice and
never has been, even if his advice is to be self-sufficient.Yet, even
with this advice of his (self-sufficiency) he is never lacking in
specific, though perhaps general, advice/guidance.
Ken

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote:
> > 
> >> He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate
> >> ceremony.
> > 
> > OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he
have
> > a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony?
> 
> He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an
> hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their
heads
> and did other stuff.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Brahman, Turiya and Awakening --and "My Three Suns"

2005-03-26 Thread Rory Goff


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> (continuing in the model of mergence of Purusha and Prakriti 
through 
> the various dimensions or "bodies")
> 
> ...So when viewed from the inside, while these processes are going 
> on, it can get more than a little confusing. For example, we can 
say 
> (broadly) that the first real awareness of the chakras, prana, AND 
> bliss arises (or can arise) during the sense-refinement of G.C., 
as 
> Purusha moves down into the Bliss-kosha of the throat, and 
Prakriti 
> moves up into the Sex chakra of the sense-organs. But from the 
point 
> of view of one in G.C., there IS no more; the entire body is 
> sometimes being (or can be) ecstatically overwhelmed with 
> mass "avalanches" of kundalini or shakti, and the various chakras 
> illuminate themselves; the consciousness passes up through the 
crown 
> and recognizes itself as an entity independent of the physical 
body 
> and space-time, and so on. (Individual results may vary.)
> 
> The attention or primary focus on all this passes when we move to 
> U.C., and a whole new vista gradually (or suddenly) arises. 
> Patanjali beautifully illuminates this latter rise into Unity with 
> the sutra, "when the translucent intellect becomes as clear as the 
> Self, enlightenment arises" (or something like that). Here he is 
> describing Purusha -- the Self -- now moving down into our heart, 
or 
> buddhi, or vijnanamaya kosha: the translucent intellect (while 
> Prakriti moves up into our manas, or navel, or lower mind), and 
its 
> (our) recognition of and fusion with our Solar angel, the causal 
> body, recognizing the Sol/Soul/ Light of Lights as our own Self. 
> Literally, enlightenment. The first half of the journey is now 
done; 
> Purusha and Prakriti have now met at our cosmic center. (What 
> remains is the journey of their overlap and complete mergence.)


Going into this in a bit more detail -- while the kundalini-flows or 
shakti-flows in G.C. culminate in the realization that one is 
a "subtle" body independent of the physical and space-time, this is 
mostly in the sense of astral-travel or soul-travel. U.C./B.C. begin 
to unfold the realization that all of this is now available in the 
physical body. In Purusha's moving down into vijnanamaya (Buddhi or 
the Cosmic Heart) and Prakriti's moving up into manamaya (Manas or 
Cosmic Navel), one no longer has to leave the physical body to 
explore the various dimensions. Time and Space are now comprehended 
as illusory even now, in this moment, and soon the Guru who was 
installed in one's Being in C.C. or G.C. is now comprehended as the 
Self (Causal Body; Cosmic Solar Plexus). 

LLL,
R.





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