[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" > > > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > > >Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 07:49:30 - > > > > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" > > > > > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > > > > >Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:11:48 - > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read one of the DLs books and all the way through I was > > thinking > > > >this is > > > > > surpisingly shallow and "surface" not the words of somone who > > has > > > >had the > > > > > experience of enlightenment. And, lo and behold, at the end he > > > >says that one > > > > > day he hopes to have a transcendental experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Now, I find that very interesting. > > > > > > > >Can you remember which book it was? This is a book that I'll be > > > >more than willing to make Barry happy by picking up and > reading... > > > > > > > >By the way, the statement about hoping to one day have a > > > >transcendental experience: it kind of reminds me of what Pope > John > > > >Paul (the one who lasted about 45 days) said after he was elected > > > >Pope. He said something to the effect: "I'm not worthy of this > > > >honour". > > > > > > > >Well, that pissed me off because if HE isn't worthy what does > that > > > >say about the 1 billion OTHER Catholics in the world? > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid I can't remember of the top of my head, but I will try > > > and find out. > > > > > > I'm sure the pope was just being modest or maybe that's why he > only > > > lasted 45 days! > > > > Perhaps someone took him at his word and put him > > out of his misery. > > > > Or perhaps the Lord saw him as worthy of immediate calling home... > Cardinal Roark: [holding Kevin's head before Marv kills him] We're going home, Kevin. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" > > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > >Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 07:49:30 - > > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" > > > > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > > > >Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:11:48 - > > > > > > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read one of the DLs books and all the way through I was > thinking > > >this is > > > > surpisingly shallow and "surface" not the words of somone who > has > > >had the > > > > experience of enlightenment. And, lo and behold, at the end he > > >says that one > > > > day he hopes to have a transcendental experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Now, I find that very interesting. > > > > > >Can you remember which book it was? This is a book that I'll be > > >more than willing to make Barry happy by picking up and reading... > > > > > >By the way, the statement about hoping to one day have a > > >transcendental experience: it kind of reminds me of what Pope John > > >Paul (the one who lasted about 45 days) said after he was elected > > >Pope. He said something to the effect: "I'm not worthy of this > > >honour". > > > > > >Well, that pissed me off because if HE isn't worthy what does that > > >say about the 1 billion OTHER Catholics in the world? > > > > > > > > I'm afraid I can't remember of the top of my head, but I will try > > and find out. > > > > I'm sure the pope was just being modest or maybe that's why he only > > lasted 45 days! > > Perhaps someone took him at his word and put him > out of his misery. > Or perhaps the Lord saw him as worthy of immediate calling home... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > >Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 07:49:30 - > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" > > > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > > >Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:11:48 - > > > > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read one of the DLs books and all the way through I was thinking > >this is > > > surpisingly shallow and "surface" not the words of somone who has > >had the > > > experience of enlightenment. And, lo and behold, at the end he > >says that one > > > day he hopes to have a transcendental experience. > > > > > > > > > >Now, I find that very interesting. > > > >Can you remember which book it was? This is a book that I'll be > >more than willing to make Barry happy by picking up and reading... > > > >By the way, the statement about hoping to one day have a > >transcendental experience: it kind of reminds me of what Pope John > >Paul (the one who lasted about 45 days) said after he was elected > >Pope. He said something to the effect: "I'm not worthy of this > >honour". > > > >Well, that pissed me off because if HE isn't worthy what does that > >say about the 1 billion OTHER Catholics in the world? > > > > > I'm afraid I can't remember of the top of my head, but I will try > and find out. > > I'm sure the pope was just being modest or maybe that's why he only > lasted 45 days! Perhaps someone took him at his word and put him out of his misery. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
>From: "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes >Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 07:49:30 - > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > >Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:11:48 - > > > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I read one of the DLs books and all the way through I was thinking >this is > > surpisingly shallow and "surface" not the words of somone who has >had the > > experience of enlightenment. And, lo and behold, at the end he >says that one > > day he hopes to have a transcendental experience. > > > > >Now, I find that very interesting. > >Can you remember which book it was? This is a book that I'll be >more than willing to make Barry happy by picking up and reading... > >By the way, the statement about hoping to one day have a >transcendental experience: it kind of reminds me of what Pope John >Paul (the one who lasted about 45 days) said after he was elected >Pope. He said something to the effect: "I'm not worthy of this >honour". > >Well, that pissed me off because if HE isn't worthy what does that >say about the 1 billion OTHER Catholics in the world? > > I'm afraid I can't remember of the top of my head, but I will try and find out. I'm sure the pope was just being modest or maybe that's why he only lasted 45 days! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >From: "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > >Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:11:48 - > > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > > > > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > > > > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > > > > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > > > > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > > > > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. > > > > > > Shemp, did you have something strange to eat before you wrote > >this? This is an odd > > > reaction to the Dalai Lama and to a whole tradition that also uses > >the Vedas. Vedic > > > traditions sound pretty wild, too, to most people - things like > >performing fire cermonies > > > so that that energies coming from planets to your very own > >physiology will be deflected or > > > enhanced. > > > > > > > > > >I don't particularly like any form of voodoo, tibetan or hindi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a > > > > > group of people who have more knowledge than you > > > > > do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and > > > > > reincarnation. And you're laughing at them and > > > > > trying to put them down, when what a *smart* seeker > > > > > would be doing is trying to figure out what they > > > > > know, and whether it might be useful. > > > I read one of the DLs books and all the way through I was thinking this is > surpisingly shallow and "surface" not the words of somone who has had the > experience of enlightenment. And, lo and behold, at the end he says that one > day he hopes to have a transcendental experience. Now, I find that very interesting. Can you remember which book it was? This is a book that I'll be more than willing to make Barry happy by picking up and reading... By the way, the statement about hoping to one day have a transcendental experience: it kind of reminds me of what Pope John Paul (the one who lasted about 45 days) said after he was elected Pope. He said something to the effect: "I'm not worthy of this honour". Well, that pissed me off because if HE isn't worthy what does that say about the 1 billion OTHER Catholics in the world? > > I've always prefered reading Buddhism to the movements guff, maybe because I > read it first, but it's an odd scenario to have the man at the top not > really knowing what he's talking about. > > I can't comment on the book of the dead but I file all religious writing > under "yet to be proved" the Tibetan wheel of life is a masterpiece however > and wll worth a look > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
>From: "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes >Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 22:11:48 - > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > > > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > > > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > > > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > > > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. > > > > Shemp, did you have something strange to eat before you wrote >this? This is an odd > > reaction to the Dalai Lama and to a whole tradition that also uses >the Vedas. Vedic > > traditions sound pretty wild, too, to most people - things like >performing fire cermonies > > so that that energies coming from planets to your very own >physiology will be deflected or > > enhanced. > > > > >I don't particularly like any form of voodoo, tibetan or hindi. > > > > > > > > > > The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a > > > > group of people who have more knowledge than you > > > > do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and > > > > reincarnation. And you're laughing at them and > > > > trying to put them down, when what a *smart* seeker > > > > would be doing is trying to figure out what they > > > > know, and whether it might be useful. I read one of the DLs books and all the way through I was thinking this is surpisingly shallow and "surface" not the words of somone who has had the experience of enlightenment. And, lo and behold, at the end he says that one day he hopes to have a transcendental experience. I've always prefered reading Buddhism to the movements guff, maybe because I read it first, but it's an odd scenario to have the man at the top not really knowing what he's talking about. I can't comment on the book of the dead but I file all religious writing under "yet to be proved" the Tibetan wheel of life is a masterpiece however and wll worth a look To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
on 4/8/06 7:17 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Cool. I wish you well on that path. I'm definitely >> more of a Buddhist. May we all get to the same party >> location at some point, and get to sit down over a few >> margaritas and talk about the incredibly different >> routes we all took to get there. :-) :-) :-) >> > > Yes, I look forward to that - here on earth, too. Someone in FF has to arrange > this in the > next decade! We ought to have a FFL get-together sometime. How many of you who live out of town would fly in for it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > It seems to me that the people who are *most* afraid > > to die are those who spend inordinate amounts of time > > trying to prepare themselves for it. > > ...or reading and writing about it, especially when it isn't even > the subject at hand. Yeah, but that doesn't matter. The subject at hand didn't present enough opportunity for putdowns, and Barry desperately needed to do a scornful rant at *somebody*. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > In other words, your operating system is Aesopian: > > sour grapes. You'd rather put down someone else's > > experiences than do a little work to have your own. :-) > > I love your use of the ":-)" which you employ whenever you're > criticizing someone and venting your spleen but want to still > maintain that "I'm a loosy-goosy cool intellectual living in > France" personae. ROTFL! *Nailed*. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: snips> wayback:> > Regarding the idea of free will, I would agree with you > > entirely except for experiences I have had (and sadly > > have not had iin quite some time). The few experiences > > I have had, and I know many many others have too and > > have written books about etc etc, are unmistakable. > > Life all happens, just happens and unfolds - kind of > > like a plant grows without any planning, so does a > > human act and think and feel. > > I've had those experiences, too. I think the difference > is that I do not consider them any different than any > *other* experience I've ever had. In other words, the > state of attention in which one is not the doer has no > more importance or weight for me than any other. It's > Just Another Fleeting State Of Attention. . > > My understanding is that even brain research is beginning > > to suggest that our volitional actions actually got > > triggered before we have had time to feel or ponder or > > choose. This is all irrelevant until the experience occurs, > > but it is a real relief to experience, and the shock of > > all shocks, let me tell you. > > I think the keyword here might be in your use of the > word 'relief.' IMO, some people are actively *searching* > for experiences that "prove" to them that they are not > in control, and that something bigger and greater than > they are *is* in control. So (also IMO), when they have > the particular fleeting experience of "not the doer," > they tend to interpret that experience as an "ultimate" > experience, a glimpse of some ultimate truth. I don't > see it that way. I treat such experiences, interesting > as they may be, just like any other experience. They > come, they go...NONE of them is any more advanced or > "higher" than the other. Well, the first time it happened I felt as if I had been living my entire life in some sort of cosmic joke which produced the feeling that I had free will and my full attention on the details of life was essential. The relief was that I did not need to take things quite so seriously since the flow of it all would carry things along. Maybe these experiences are not special or more evolved, just odd brain functionings that have been deemed "higher." But my bet is that this is not so. I think there are higher states of consciousness and that MMY's basic delineation is a pretty good one. snip > > I am all in favor of Bhuddism and all the compassion and > > good works and honesty that it encourages. I am a Hindu > > type, tho. > > Cool. I wish you well on that path. I'm definitely > more of a Buddhist. May we all get to the same party > location at some point, and get to sit down over a few > margaritas and talk about the incredibly different > routes we all took to get there. :-) :-) :-) > Yes, I look forward to that - here on earth, too. Someone in FF has to arrange this in the next decade! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. > > Shemp, did you have something strange to eat before you wrote this? This is an odd > reaction to the Dalai Lama and to a whole tradition that also uses the Vedas. Vedic > traditions sound pretty wild, too, to most people - things like performing fire cermonies > so that that energies coming from planets to your very own physiology will be deflected or > enhanced. I don't particularly like any form of voodoo, tibetan or hindi. > > > > The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a > > > group of people who have more knowledge than you > > > do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and > > > reincarnation. And you're laughing at them and > > > trying to put them down, when what a *smart* seeker > > > would be doing is trying to figure out what they > > > know, and whether it might be useful. > > > > snip > > > > > I guess my point is that when it comes to the process > > > of death, dying, and rebirth, you are *not* likely > > > to find out anything of worth by studying with anyone > > > from an Indian/Hindu background. Whereas, if that is > > > one your interests, you *are* likely to find out a > > > little of how it all works by studying with a tradition > > > that has delved into this subject for thousands of > > > years, with some success. That is, Tibetan Buddhists. > > > > > > > > They've got a clue, in my opinion. In my opinion, NO > > > ONE I've *ever* encountered from an Indian/Hindu-based > > > tradition does. They are basically *clueless* as to > > > what happens when they die, and often as fearful of > > > dying as the "man on the street." > > And to be even more in your face, death is > going to > > > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > > > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > > > and probably closer to ten. You're going to be lying > > > on your deathbed, still knowing as little about what > > > lies in front of you when your body breathes its last > > > breath as you do today. You'll be about to dive into > > > an experience that is as much a mystery for you as it > > > was the day you were born. Whereas a lot of people who > > > have actually studied with the tradition you like to > > > make fun of (Tibetan Buddhism) will just be getting > > > ready to perform a series of meditational exercises > > > that they've been preparing for their whole lives. > > Vaj wrote: > > Another thing Shemp might want to consider is that the Tibetan > > diaspora was actually a blessing for this planet, rather than a > > curse. But that would entail seeing the big picture. > > > > Nice point about the Tibetan diaspora! > > Re death and dying, I have found Yogananda's books of comfort. I just started his Gita > translation/commentary and it seems packed with all sorts of good information. > Personally, I would find it comforting to have some trusty steps to perform as death nears. > But, I also trust that the process will take care of itself, to a large extent. All this > meditating and yoga for all these years, trying to live a "good" life while having some fun, > caring for family. I am counting on a compassionate universe to include me and frankly > everyone in the normal flow of transition. I don't think we all have to feel responsible for > learing how to manage each stage of life. The analogy that comes to mind is the fundy > Christian idea that ONLY thru belief in Jesus can a person be saved. But what about those > who never heard of Jesus? Same with death. Such a fundamental experience cannot > possibly REQUIRE special training available in one part of the world. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > on 4/8/06 8:09 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. > > > > > > (Trivia question here...who can name the movie > > > that the above quote comes from?) :-) > > > > Buckaroo Banzai? > > Give that man a kewpie doll. :-) > > One of the great cult films of all time. > > > > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > > > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > > > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > > > and probably closer to ten. > > > > Why so soon? Is Shemp 75? > > No particular reason, and it may not be true. But > he IS going to die, and if he manages to live the > rest of his life as incurious and as unwilling to > exert *any* effort to learn anything new as he has > during the last few years, he'll face that death as > ignorant of what it's all about as he is today. > > For some reason, that just struck me as sad this > morning, and so I wrote what I wrote. > > Periodically, Shemp decides to trash the Dalai Lama > and Things Tibetan for -- as far as I can tell -- no > other reason than to be a troll and to be provocative. Actually, I've certainly trashed the Dalai Lam but have never trashed the Tibetan Buddhists (don't know enough about them to either trash or love 'em). As for being a provocateur, yes, I readily admit to it, especially in this case. > He knows *nothing* about the Dalai Lama, nothing about > Tibetan history, nothing about Tibetan Buddhism, and > doesn't really *care* to learn anything or intend to > *ever* learn anything about it. Where this subject is > concerned, Shemp is what I termed a "typical American" > -- Ignorant And Proud Of It. > > I just got tired of putting up with his troll act > is all, and decided to call him on it. If he actually > has any desire to *learn* something about Tibet and > its approach to death, dying, and reincarnation, I > will be happy to interact with him. But for that to > happen, he has to do his homework, and read a book > called "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying," by > Sogyal Rinpoche, Patrick D. Gaffney, and Andrew Harvey. > > If he does, I'll interact with him on the subject of > Tibet and its philosophies. If he doesn't, I'll continue > to treat him as the ignorant adolescent he seems content > to be, and to be until he dies. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > **SNIP** > I do think things here in the unviverse, including me, run on autopilot and that the sense > that I have free will is an illusion. This is based on TM meditation - related experiences I > have had, so I feel pretty convinced of this (while also recognizing that first, I probably > have only experienced a tiny piece of the BIG picture, and second, the meditation > technique that gives rise to this may do just that by changing the brain in specific ways > related to the technique, but that is another discussion) Nevertheless, since most of the > time I have the sensation/illusion that I am controlling my life, I have no choice but to > keep on exerting my will and seeking! And if in the midst of this world I DO have some > free will, I am betting it has to do with evolution and related choices. **SNIP TO END** Very well said. This my experience/POV as well. In the sense that sadhana seems to be "progressive", rather than an instantaneous awakening, the best way I could describe it is a thinning of the ego. Can't say it's not there but pretty much the only time it's noticed are those times when "I" feel annoyed. When that occurs it doesn't take much more than a moment's reflection for the feeling to subside. This life seems to be little more than a "point of view", a way of interaction. Things of interest draw my attention and other things don't. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > > > > How about the documentary "Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion"? > > > > > > If I'm wrong in my analysis, why not tell me where I'm wrong? > > > > Well, since you asked... > > Note that Barry does not answer the question Shemp > asked but substitutes his own question, one that > enables him to put Shemp down in his answer. And I am genuinely interested to know where I'm wrong. I've given my sources where I got my info (which you all may very well be looking down your noses at but it still is the same one that 99% of Americans got their info on this subject on). Barry for some reason has a great interest in reincarnation and death and dying. Fine, God bless him but it really is boring to me. Do I believe in reincarnation? Yes. I thought about it for about a week when I was 18, decided that that was the reality of life and haven't much thought about it since. > > > > They've got a clue, in my opinion. In my opinion, NO > > ONE I've *ever* encountered from an Indian/Hindu-based > > tradition does. They are basically *clueless* as to > > what happens when they die, and often as fearful of > > dying as the "man on the street." (Just look at > > Maharishi hiding in his sterile room, afraid to even > > interact with other human beings...is this how some- > > one who is 'established in Brahman' or even unafraid > > of death would act?) > > Quite possibly, if he felt it was important for him to > stay alive as long as possible to complete a crucial > task. > > Fear of death is far from the only reason to postpone > it as long as possible. Some might even *prefer* to > die rather than hang around but feel a sense of > obligation to complete unfinished business. > > > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > > and probably closer to ten. > > Shemp is going to die in his early 60s or 70s? > > And you know this how? > > You're going to be lying > > on your deathbed, still knowing as little about what > > lies in front of you when your body breathes its last > > breath as you do today. You'll be about to dive into > > an experience that is as much a mystery for you as it > > was the day you were born. Whereas a lot of people who > > have actually studied with the tradition you like to > > make fun of (Tibetan Buddhism) will just be getting > > ready to perform a series of meditational exercises > > that they've been preparing for their whole lives. > > Or one might be of the opinion that some people are so > afraid of mystery and the unknown that they spend > significant portions of their lives absorbing others' > speculations about the mystery and convincing themselves > they have the definitive map to it, as well as putting > out a great deal of effort in exercises these same folks > have told them will make the mystery less scary when > they have to face it. > > > > I'm just sayin', Shemp...that the time before you die > > might be better spent figuring out what dying is all > > about than it would be trashing the only people on the > > planet who seem to be able to *teach* you what dying > > is all about. > > Some may feel that the time before you die should be > spent in living that time fully, rather than becoming > preoccupied with what might happen after it. > > It seems to me that the people who are *most* afraid > to die are those who spend inordinate amounts of time > trying to prepare themselves for it. > ...or reading and writing about it, especially when it isn't even the subject at hand. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies > > > > > " Seven > > > > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > > > > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > > > > > Or blame someone so stupid and lazy that he bases > > > his bigoted rant against Tibetant Buddhism on the > > > little he's seen in the movies. :-) > > > > Are you saying that Martin Scorcese was wrong? > > No, merely that for cinematic reasons he shortened > a month-long process into about three or four minutes > of screen time and that you, like many equally-brain- > dead, lazy Americans, thought that those three to four > minutes portrayed the whole story. :-) > > Also, that *as* a brain-dead, lazyass, incurious American, > you were content to *settle* for the "movie version" > rather than looking into the reality, and exerting a > little effort to find out more. :-) I have the effort but not the attention-span. > > > How about the documentary "Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion"? > > > > If I'm wrong in my analysis, why not tell me where I'm wrong? > > Well, since you asked...basically I think you're an > angry guy who has spent thirty years or so pursuing a > spiritual path that has never paid off for him in terms > of direct spiritual experience. I meant regarding the Dalai Lama and HIS history, not mine, Barry. > Therefore, you are jealous > of and want to fuck with those whose paths *have* paid > off for them in terms of spiritual experience. You mean the issue that I was addressing? The "spiritual experience" of 1.5 million Tibetans who died unnecessarily? The rest of the Tibetan culture unnecessary descimated? Yeah, you're right, I'm really jealous. But I'd still like you to tell me where my analysis is wrong (without you having to tell me which books to read to get the answers). Can't you? > What gets > you off is trying to find things that'll enable you to put > down those who have had experiences you have not. > > In other words, your operating system is Aesopian: > sour grapes. You'd rather put down someone else's > experiences than do a little work to have your own. :-) I love your use of the ":-)" which you employ whenever you're criticizing someone and venting your spleen but want to still maintain that "I'm a loosy-goosy cool intellectual living in France" personae. Why not just be honest and leave out the ":-)"? That way, when you DO use the ":-)", it will actually mean something. > > > > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > > > > > Or, much better, read: "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas: A > > > Sacred Legacy of Reincarnation," by Dalai Lama XIV, > > > Glenn H. Mullin, and Valerie Shepherd. > > > > > > This book lists the historical "tests" that were > > > performed to verify that the kid named as the rein- > > > carnation of the previous Dalai Lama really was. > > > Unlike the "movie version," the tests often went > > > on for a month, five or six such tests per day. > > > Failing *any* of them meant that the kid was not > > > the right one. > > > > hahahahahahahahaahaha. > > > > Dear, dear Barry. I've seen to hit a sore spot. > > You'd like to think that. But the reality is that, > *unlike you*, I've actually *studied* with Tibetan > teachers who could *demonstrate* the basis on which > they can track beings through their incarnations. > I've been there, done that as they did it. It's an > utterly fascinating, nigh unto mindblowing experience. You're very special. > > And yes, it makes *absolutely no sense* to someone > who is attached to Western ways of seeing and think- > ing, but damn! -- when you are there participating > in the process -- damn if it doesn't work. Go figure. > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. > > Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. > > (Trivia question here...who can name the movie > that the above quote comes from?) :-) "The Adventures of Buckaroo Bonzai across the Eigth Dimension". > > The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a > group of people who have more knowledge than you > do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and > reincarnation. I totally concede that point to you, Barry, I am totally ignorant of that field. > And you're laughing at them and > trying to put them down, Actually, I was laughing at you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > Cool. I wish you well on that path. I'm definitely > > more of a Buddhist. May we all get to the same party > > location at some point, and get to sit down over a few > > margaritas and talk about the incredibly different > > routes we all took to get there. :-) :-) :-) > > One word: Anejo. Nine words: Single-village mescal, made from wild (not-cultivated) agave. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > I think that the book I recommended to Shemp a couple > > > of posts ago is pretty good. "The Tibetan Book of > > > Living and Dying." I think that's a very well-written > > > overview of the strange way that Tibetans look at death, > > > dying and the reincarnation process. > > > > > > Barry, turns out I have that very book on my bedside table, > > got it in December and I have been eyeing it ever since > > while I indulge in novels (Embers by Marai and Saturday > > by McEwan are good). > > Cool. Synchronicity. That's how that book happened > for me, too. I bought it, put it on a shelf, and > didn't get around to reading it until years later. > > > The whole death and dying thing looks awfully > > complicated. > > Quite possibly. Just diving into it and trusting in > the will of God or whatever is definitely easier. :-) > > > Regarding the idea of free will, I would agree with you > > entirely except for experiences I have had (and sadly > > have not had iin quite some time). The few experiences > > I have had, and I know many many others have too and > > have written books about etc etc, are unmistakable. > > Life all happens, just happens and unfolds - kind of > > like a plant grows without any planning, so does a > > human act and think and feel. > > I've had those experiences, too. I think the difference > is that I do not consider them any different than any > *other* experience I've ever had. In other words, the > state of attention in which one is not the doer has no > more importance or weight for me than any other. It's > Just Another Fleeting State Of Attention. > > > My understanding is that even brain research is beginning > > to suggest that our volitional actions actually got > > triggered before we have had time to feel or ponder or > > choose. This is all irrelevant until the experience occurs, > > but it is a real relief to experience, and the shock of > > all shocks, let me tell you. > > I think the keyword here might be in your use of the > word 'relief.' IMO, some people are actively *searching* > for experiences that "prove" to them that they are not > in control, and that something bigger and greater than > they are *is* in control. So (also IMO), when they have > the particular fleeting experience of "not the doer," > they tend to interpret that experience as an "ultimate" > experience, a glimpse of some ultimate truth. I don't > see it that way. I treat such experiences, interesting > as they may be, just like any other experience. They > come, they go...NONE of them is any more advanced or > "higher" than the other. > > > Perhaps just a distorted brain state, although I don't > > think so. But I agree with you that this appears to be > > a fundamental difference between Bhuddists and Hindus > > and goes beyond just using different words. > > *Incredibly* fundamental difference. > > > I am all in favor of Bhuddism and all the compassion and > > good works and honesty that it encourages. I am a Hindu > > type, tho. > > Cool. I wish you well on that path. I'm definitely > more of a Buddhist. May we all get to the same party > location at some point, and get to sit down over a few > margaritas and talk about the incredibly different > routes we all took to get there. :-) :-) :-) > One word: Anejo. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > I think that the book I recommended to Shemp a couple > > of posts ago is pretty good. "The Tibetan Book of > > Living and Dying." I think that's a very well-written > > overview of the strange way that Tibetans look at death, > > dying and the reincarnation process. > > > Barry, turns out I have that very book on my bedside table, > got it in December and I have been eyeing it ever since > while I indulge in novels (Embers by Marai and Saturday > by McEwan are good). Cool. Synchronicity. That's how that book happened for me, too. I bought it, put it on a shelf, and didn't get around to reading it until years later. > The whole death and dying thing looks awfully > complicated. Quite possibly. Just diving into it and trusting in the will of God or whatever is definitely easier. :-) > Regarding the idea of free will, I would agree with you > entirely except for experiences I have had (and sadly > have not had iin quite some time). The few experiences > I have had, and I know many many others have too and > have written books about etc etc, are unmistakable. > Life all happens, just happens and unfolds - kind of > like a plant grows without any planning, so does a > human act and think and feel. I've had those experiences, too. I think the difference is that I do not consider them any different than any *other* experience I've ever had. In other words, the state of attention in which one is not the doer has no more importance or weight for me than any other. It's Just Another Fleeting State Of Attention. > My understanding is that even brain research is beginning > to suggest that our volitional actions actually got > triggered before we have had time to feel or ponder or > choose. This is all irrelevant until the experience occurs, > but it is a real relief to experience, and the shock of > all shocks, let me tell you. I think the keyword here might be in your use of the word 'relief.' IMO, some people are actively *searching* for experiences that "prove" to them that they are not in control, and that something bigger and greater than they are *is* in control. So (also IMO), when they have the particular fleeting experience of "not the doer," they tend to interpret that experience as an "ultimate" experience, a glimpse of some ultimate truth. I don't see it that way. I treat such experiences, interesting as they may be, just like any other experience. They come, they go...NONE of them is any more advanced or "higher" than the other. > Perhaps just a distorted brain state, although I don't > think so. But I agree with you that this appears to be > a fundamental difference between Bhuddists and Hindus > and goes beyond just using different words. *Incredibly* fundamental difference. > I am all in favor of Bhuddism and all the compassion and > good works and honesty that it encourages. I am a Hindu > type, tho. Cool. I wish you well on that path. I'm definitely more of a Buddhist. May we all get to the same party location at some point, and get to sit down over a few margaritas and talk about the incredibly different routes we all took to get there. :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > > > wrote: > > I do think things here in the unviverse, including me, > > run on autopilot and that the sense that I have free > > will is an illusion. > > That's what I got from what you said. No *problem* > with this, by the way...it's just that I don't > happen to believe that myself. > > > This is based on TM meditation - related experiences I > > have had, so I feel pretty convinced of this (while also > > recognizing that first, I probably have only experienced > > a tiny piece of the BIG picture, and second, the meditation > > technique that gives rise to this may do just that by > > changing the brain in specific ways related to the > > technique, but that is another discussion) Nevertheless, > > since most of the time I have the sensation/illusion that > > I am controlling my life, I have no choice but to keep on > > exerting my will and seeking! > > All I'm talking about is continuing to do so *after* > you die, as you transit from this life to the next. > > > And if in the midst of this world I DO have some > > free will, I am betting it has to do with evolution and > > related choices. > > Well, I'd be more willing to say that it was because > free will is the essential nature of the universe. > But it's Ok to disagree on this, of course. :-) > > > So, I am curious. Is there some reading you could > > recommend? Can't get to Dharamsala in person for at > > least a few years! > > Me, either. Get to Dharamsala, that is. I'm not even > sure I'd want to go. > > I think that the book I recommended to Shemp a couple > of posts ago is pretty good. "The Tibetan Book of > Living and Dying." I think that's a very well-written > overview of the strange way that Tibetans look at death, > dying and the reincarnation process. > > Caveat: I do NOT know that any of this shit is true. > It *feels* true to me, based on my own subjective > experiences of having remembered the process of dying > and being reborn when working with a couple of Phowa > teachers. But that might just be an illusion. In > other words, your mileage may vary. Barry, turns out I have that very book on my bedside table, got it in December and I have been eyeing it ever since while I indulge in novels (Embers by Marai and Saturday by McEwan are good). The whole death and dying thing looks awfully complicated. Regarding the idea of free will, I would agree with you entirely except for experiences I have had (and sadly have not had iin quite some time). The few experiences I have had, and I know many many others have too and have written books about etc etc, are unmistakable. Life all happens, just happens and unfolds - kind of like a plant grows without any planning, so does a human act and think and feel. My understanding is that even brain research is beginning to suggest that our volitional actions actually got triggered before we have had time to feel or ponder or choose. This is all irrelevant until the experience occurs, but it is a real relief to experience, and the shock of all shocks, let me tell you. Perhaps just a distorted brain state, although I don't think so. But I agree with you that this appears to be a fundamental difference between Bhuddists and Hindus and goes beyond just using different words. I am all in favor of Bhuddism and all the compassion and good works and honesty that it encourages. I am a Hindu type, tho. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > wrote: > > I don't think we all have to feel responsible for > > learing how to manage each stage of life. > > Nope. But for those who are interested, there is a > wealth of valuable information available. Whether > you are interested in that information or not > probably has a lot to do with how much of a hand > you believe you have with regard to your own evo- > lution, and with regard to how much you think is > *out* of your hands. Exactly. Those who think they're doing their best to make the most of their lives are likely to feel fairly confident that if there is an afterlife, they'll have earned a good spot in it through their own efforts. They'll see no need to prepare for death in any way other than by living well. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > > wrote: > > > > > > Re death and dying, I have found Yogananda's books of > > > comfort. I just started his Gita translation/commentary > > > and it seems packed with all sorts of good information. > > > Haven't looked at it in decades. Thanks for the tip; > > I'll check it out. > > The Gita commentary by Yogananda that I have is a 2 volume > set that was published only recently. Don't know if it is > different than any decades old volume you might have. I don't know either. The one I had (and sadly no longer have) was a clearly printed-in-India 2-volume set bought at the SRF Temple in Encinitas back in the late 60s. The new books you refer to could be the same or different; I don't know. > > > Personally, I would find it comforting to have some > > > large extent. All this meditating and yoga for all > > > these years, trying to live a "good" life while having > > > some fun, caring for family. I am counting on a > > > compassionate universe to include me and frankly > > > everyone in the normal flow of transition. > > > > You've just *nailed* the difference between the Hindu > > approach to dying and the Tibetan Buddhist approach > > to dying. That is, underlying the Hindu approach to > > dying is an assumption that the universe is sentient, > > is compassionate, and that it has the ability to act > > on that compassion with regard to the living and the > > dying. In the Hindu cosmology, the basic concept is > > that the universe really "runs the show" when it comes > > to how and as what one will reincarnate. The Tibetan > > Buddhist approach is more based on free will. As a > > seeker, you are responsible for your own enlightenment, > > or for the realization thereof. > > > > If you believe that the universe is really running > > everything and you don't have all that much to say in > > how and where and as what you incarnate next, where > > is the impetus to study the mechanics of death, dying, > > and reincarnation? You just die and hope for the best. :-) > > > > On the other hand, if you firmly believe that there > > are things that you *can* do to further your own > > evolution and find a cool next incarnation in which > > *to* further it, then you might tend to study death, > > dying, and reincarnation rather thoroughly indeed. > > That seems to be what the Tibetan Buddhists did. > > Different strokes for different folks, that's all. > > > > > I don't think we all have to feel responsible for > > > learing how to manage each stage of life. > > > > Nope. But for those who are interested, there is a > > wealth of valuable information available. Whether > > you are interested in that information or not > > probably has a lot to do with how much of a hand > > you believe you have with regard to your own evo- > > lution, and with regard to how much you think is > > *out* of your hands. > > I do think things here in the unviverse, including me, > run on autopilot and that the sense that I have free > will is an illusion. That's what I got from what you said. No *problem* with this, by the way...it's just that I don't happen to believe that myself. > This is based on TM meditation - related experiences I > have had, so I feel pretty convinced of this (while also > recognizing that first, I probably have only experienced > a tiny piece of the BIG picture, and second, the meditation > technique that gives rise to this may do just that by > changing the brain in specific ways related to the > technique, but that is another discussion) Nevertheless, > since most of the time I have the sensation/illusion that > I am controlling my life, I have no choice but to keep on > exerting my will and seeking! All I'm talking about is continuing to do so *after* you die, as you transit from this life to the next. > And if in the midst of this world I DO have some > free will, I am betting it has to do with evolution and > related choices. Well, I'd be more willing to say that it was because free will is the essential nature of the universe. But it's Ok to disagree on this, of course. :-) > So, I am curious. Is there some reading you could > recommend? Can't get to Dharamsala in person for at > least a few years! Me, either. Get to Dharamsala, that is. I'm not even sure I'd want to go. I think that the book I recommended to Shemp a couple of posts ago is pretty good. "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying." I think that's a very well-written overview of the strange way that Tibetans look at death, dying and the reincarnation process. Caveat: I do NOT know that any of this shit is true. It *feels* true to me, based on my own subjective experiences of having remembered the process of dying and being reborn when working with a couple of Phowa teac
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" > wrote: > > > > Re death and dying, I have found Yogananda's books of > > comfort. I just started his Gita translation/commentary > > and it seems packed with all sorts of good information. > > Haven't looked at it in decades. Thanks for the tip; > I'll check it out. The Gita commentary by Yogananda that I have is a 2 volume set that was published only recently. Don't know if it is different than any decades old volume you might have. > > Personally, I would find it comforting to have some > > large extent. All this meditating and yoga for all > > these years, trying to live a "good" life while having > > some fun, caring for family. I am counting on a > > compassionate universe to include me and frankly > > everyone in the normal flow of transition. > > You've just *nailed* the difference between the Hindu > approach to dying and the Tibetan Buddhist approach > to dying. That is, underlying the Hindu approach to > dying is an assumption that the universe is sentient, > is compassionate, and that it has the ability to act > on that compassion with regard to the living and the > dying. In the Hindu cosmology, the basic concept is > that the universe really "runs the show" when it comes > to how and as what one will reincarnate. The Tibetan > Buddhist approach is more based on free will. As a > seeker, you are responsible for your own enlightenment, > or for the realization thereof. > > If you believe that the universe is really running > everything and you don't have all that much to say in > how and where and as what you incarnate next, where > is the impetus to study the mechanics of death, dying, > and reincarnation? You just die and hope for the best. :-) > > On the other hand, if you firmly believe that there > are things that you *can* do to further your own > evolution and find a cool next incarnation in which > *to* further it, then you might tend to study death, > dying, and reincarnation rather thoroughly indeed. > That seems to be what the Tibetan Buddhists did. > Different strokes for different folks, that's all. > > > I don't think we all have to feel responsible for > > learing how to manage each stage of life. > > Nope. But for those who are interested, there is a > wealth of valuable information available. Whether > you are interested in that information or not > probably has a lot to do with how much of a hand > you believe you have with regard to your own evo- > lution, and with regard to how much you think is > *out* of your hands. I do think things here in the unviverse, including me, run on autopilot and that the sense that I have free will is an illusion. This is based on TM meditation - related experiences I have had, so I feel pretty convinced of this (while also recognizing that first, I probably have only experienced a tiny piece of the BIG picture, and second, the meditation technique that gives rise to this may do just that by changing the brain in specific ways related to the technique, but that is another discussion) Nevertheless, since most of the time I have the sensation/illusion that I am controlling my life, I have no choice but to keep on exerting my will and seeking! And if in the midst of this world I DO have some free will, I am betting it has to do with evolution and related choices. So, I am curious. Is there some reading you could recommend? Can't get to Dharamsala in person for at least a few years! snip To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. > > Shemp, did you have something strange to eat before you wrote this? > This is an odd reaction to the Dalai Lama and to a whole tradition > that also uses the Vedas. Vedic traditions sound pretty wild, too, > to most people - things like performing fire cermonies so that that > energies coming from planets to your very own physiology will be > deflected or enhanced. I have a sneaking suspicion Shemp doesn't buy into any of this either... > But, I also trust that the process will take care of itself, to a > large extent. All this meditating and yoga for all these years, > trying to live a "good" life while having some fun, caring for > family. I am counting on a compassionate universe to include me and > frankly everyone in the normal flow of transition. I don't think > we all have to feel responsible for learing how to manage each > stage of life. *Very* well said. > The analogy that comes to mind is the fundy Christian idea that > ONLY thru belief in Jesus can a person be saved. But what about > those who never heard of Jesus? Same with death. Such a > fundamental experience cannot possibly REQUIRE special training > available in one part of the world. Sounds awfully elitist, doesn't it? But at least the fundies' doctrine of salvation promises that if you accept Jesus as your savior while you're on earth, you are assured of eternal happiness after you die--relieving you of the need to spend time and effort going through elaborate training for death, when you could be living your life to the fullest while you still *have* it. Tibetans are certainly entitled to have their beliefs respected, as are the fundies. But for Tibetan beliefs to be used as an excuse to heap scorn on others, by someone who isn't even Tibetan, strikes me as very likely incompatible with what devout Tibetans would find acceptable. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Re death and dying, I have found Yogananda's books of > comfort. I just started his Gita translation/commentary > and it seems packed with all sorts of good information. Haven't looked at it in decades. Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out. > Personally, I would find it comforting to have some > trusty steps to perform as death nears. But, I also > trust that the process will take care of itself, to a > large extent. All this meditating and yoga for all > these years, trying to live a "good" life while having > some fun, caring for family. I am counting on a > compassionate universe to include me and frankly > everyone in the normal flow of transition. You've just *nailed* the difference between the Hindu approach to dying and the Tibetan Buddhist approach to dying. That is, underlying the Hindu approach to dying is an assumption that the universe is sentient, is compassionate, and that it has the ability to act on that compassion with regard to the living and the dying. In the Hindu cosmology, the basic concept is that the universe really "runs the show" when it comes to how and as what one will reincarnate. The Tibetan Buddhist approach is more based on free will. As a seeker, you are responsible for your own enlightenment, or for the realization thereof. If you believe that the universe is really running everything and you don't have all that much to say in how and where and as what you incarnate next, where is the impetus to study the mechanics of death, dying, and reincarnation? You just die and hope for the best. :-) On the other hand, if you firmly believe that there are things that you *can* do to further your own evolution and find a cool next incarnation in which *to* further it, then you might tend to study death, dying, and reincarnation rather thoroughly indeed. That seems to be what the Tibetan Buddhists did. Different strokes for different folks, that's all. > I don't think we all have to feel responsible for > learing how to manage each stage of life. Nope. But for those who are interested, there is a wealth of valuable information available. Whether you are interested in that information or not probably has a lot to do with how much of a hand you believe you have with regard to your own evo- lution, and with regard to how much you think is *out* of your hands. > The analogy that comes to mind is the fundy Christian > idea that ONLY thru belief in Jesus can a person be > saved. But what about those who never heard of Jesus? > Same with death. Such a fundamental experience cannot > possibly REQUIRE special training available in one part > of the world. Did you hear anyone say it did? It's a matter of predilection. You can dive into the Bardo and just hope for the best, allowing the universe to do everything for you. And it will. The universe is good about that. Other people with other predilections might want to get more involved, and have more of a say in where they're going next, and as what. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
> On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > > > > > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. Shemp, did you have something strange to eat before you wrote this? This is an odd reaction to the Dalai Lama and to a whole tradition that also uses the Vedas. Vedic traditions sound pretty wild, too, to most people - things like performing fire cermonies so that that energies coming from planets to your very own physiology will be deflected or enhanced. > > The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a > > group of people who have more knowledge than you > > do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and > > reincarnation. And you're laughing at them and > > trying to put them down, when what a *smart* seeker > > would be doing is trying to figure out what they > > know, and whether it might be useful. > > snip > > > I guess my point is that when it comes to the process > > of death, dying, and rebirth, you are *not* likely > > to find out anything of worth by studying with anyone > > from an Indian/Hindu background. Whereas, if that is > > one your interests, you *are* likely to find out a > > little of how it all works by studying with a tradition > > that has delved into this subject for thousands of > > years, with some success. That is, Tibetan Buddhists. > > > > > They've got a clue, in my opinion. In my opinion, NO > > ONE I've *ever* encountered from an Indian/Hindu-based > > tradition does. They are basically *clueless* as to > > what happens when they die, and often as fearful of > > dying as the "man on the street." > > And to be even more in your face, > > death is going to > > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > > and probably closer to ten. You're going to be lying > > on your deathbed, still knowing as little about what > > lies in front of you when your body breathes its last > > breath as you do today. You'll be about to dive into > > an experience that is as much a mystery for you as it > > was the day you were born. Whereas a lot of people who > > have actually studied with the tradition you like to > > make fun of (Tibetan Buddhism) will just be getting > > ready to perform a series of meditational exercises > > that they've been preparing for their whole lives. Vaj wrote: > Another thing Shemp might want to consider is that the Tibetan > diaspora was actually a blessing for this planet, rather than a > curse. But that would entail seeing the big picture. > Nice point about the Tibetan diaspora! Re death and dying, I have found Yogananda's books of comfort. I just started his Gita translation/commentary and it seems packed with all sorts of good information. Personally, I would find it comforting to have some trusty steps to perform as death nears. But, I also trust that the process will take care of itself, to a large extent. All this meditating and yoga for all these years, trying to live a "good" life while having some fun, caring for family. I am counting on a compassionate universe to include me and frankly everyone in the normal flow of transition. I don't think we all have to feel responsible for learing how to manage each stage of life. The analogy that comes to mind is the fundy Christian idea that ONLY thru belief in Jesus can a person be saved. But what about those who never heard of Jesus? Same with death. Such a fundamental experience cannot possibly REQUIRE special training available in one part of the world. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer > wrote: > > on 4/8/06 8:09 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. > > > > > > (Trivia question here...who can name the movie > > > that the above quote comes from?) :-) > > > > Buckaroo Banzai? > > Give that man a kewpie doll. :-) > > One of the great cult films of all time. I mentioned that a Buckaroo comic is coming out, didn't I? Done by the guys who did the movie. The preview comic has a great editorial about the way in which Buckaroo was buried in Studio Limbo for so long. RIghts, rights, who owns the rights? Actually, they're STILL not sure... > > > > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > > > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > > > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > > > and probably closer to ten. > > > > Why so soon? Is Shemp 75? > > No particular reason, and it may not be true. But > he IS going to die, and if he manages to live the > rest of his life as incurious and as unwilling to > exert *any* effort to learn anything new as he has > during the last few years, he'll face that death as > ignorant of what it's all about as he is today. > > For some reason, that just struck me as sad this > morning, and so I wrote what I wrote. > > Periodically, Shemp decides to trash the Dalai Lama > and Things Tibetan for -- as far as I can tell -- no > other reason than to be a troll and to be provocative. > He knows *nothing* about the Dalai Lama, nothing about > Tibetan history, nothing about Tibetan Buddhism, and > doesn't really *care* to learn anything or intend to > *ever* learn anything about it. Where this subject is > concerned, Shemp is what I termed a "typical American" > -- Ignorant And Proud Of It. > > I just got tired of putting up with his troll act > is all, and decided to call him on it. If he actually > has any desire to *learn* something about Tibet and > its approach to death, dying, and reincarnation, I > will be happy to interact with him. But for that to > happen, he has to do his homework, and read a book > called "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying," by > Sogyal Rinpoche, Patrick D. Gaffney, and Andrew Harvey. > > If he does, I'll interact with him on the subject of > Tibet and its philosophies. If he doesn't, I'll continue > to treat him as the ignorant adolescent he seems content > to be, and to be until he dies. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > on 4/8/06 8:09 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. > > > > (Trivia question here...who can name the movie > > that the above quote comes from?) :-) > > Buckaroo Banzai? Give that man a kewpie doll. :-) One of the great cult films of all time. > > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > > and probably closer to ten. > > Why so soon? Is Shemp 75? No particular reason, and it may not be true. But he IS going to die, and if he manages to live the rest of his life as incurious and as unwilling to exert *any* effort to learn anything new as he has during the last few years, he'll face that death as ignorant of what it's all about as he is today. For some reason, that just struck me as sad this morning, and so I wrote what I wrote. Periodically, Shemp decides to trash the Dalai Lama and Things Tibetan for -- as far as I can tell -- no other reason than to be a troll and to be provocative. He knows *nothing* about the Dalai Lama, nothing about Tibetan history, nothing about Tibetan Buddhism, and doesn't really *care* to learn anything or intend to *ever* learn anything about it. Where this subject is concerned, Shemp is what I termed a "typical American" -- Ignorant And Proud Of It. I just got tired of putting up with his troll act is all, and decided to call him on it. If he actually has any desire to *learn* something about Tibet and its approach to death, dying, and reincarnation, I will be happy to interact with him. But for that to happen, he has to do his homework, and read a book called "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying," by Sogyal Rinpoche, Patrick D. Gaffney, and Andrew Harvey. If he does, I'll interact with him on the subject of Tibet and its philosophies. If he doesn't, I'll continue to treat him as the ignorant adolescent he seems content to be, and to be until he dies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 8, 2006, at 9:09 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > > > hahahahahahahahahaha. > > Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. > > (Trivia question here...who can name the movie > that the above quote comes from?) :-) > > The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a > group of people who have more knowledge than you > do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and > reincarnation. And you're laughing at them and > trying to put them down, when what a *smart* seeker > would be doing is trying to figure out what they > know, and whether it might be useful. > > Did you notice, only a few days ago, how *quickly* > the subject of death, dying and reincaration *DIED* > here on FFL? The subject came up, a few TMers posted > the few rumors that they'd heard about the subject > from within the TM movement or from other Indian > sources, and a couple of people posted a few more > tangible things they'd learned from the Tibetan > teachers with whom they'd actually studied. And > within a day the subject was no more. Over. Fini. > Ignored as if it had never happened. Really typical of FFL--esp. since the alt.tm.med diaspora--since before there wasn't groups of obsessive posters redirecting the conversation back to you know what. Fill a list with one liners and Mrs.-Spock-who-learned-TM and there ain't room for much else. But that's the way fundies are I guess... > I thought it was a fascinating exchange. The *reason* > the subject died so quickly was -- in my opinion -- > because the TMers realized how little they actually > *knew* about death and dying, and about how the > reincarnation process actually works. They were able, > when the subject came up, to report only *rumors* > that they'd heard from *non-official* TM sources. > The discussion made it clear that *at no point* in > their entire TM "career" had anyone sat them down > and explained to them what death and dying were all > about, and how they could best prepare for it. Maybe they'll reincarnate in India. Meanwhile all the indians are busy reincarnating here :-). Maybe that's why we were only given part of the puzzle: it's actually the biggest real estate heist in history. Mahesh will use the power of the Sri Yantra he stole from SBS to reincarnate him and his minions here and take over the US, meanwhile TMers will all unconsciously reincarnate to India and other third world countries. Voila! He'll have become king of the US. Then the Islamofascists will nuke India and the inner elect of M.'s entourage will rule from the US, safe and sound. > > I guess my point is that when it comes to the process > of death, dying, and rebirth, you are *not* likely > to find out anything of worth by studying with anyone > from an Indian/Hindu background. Whereas, if that is > one your interests, you *are* likely to find out a > little of how it all works by studying with a tradition > that has delved into this subject for thousands of > years, with some success. That is, Tibetan Buddhists. Well if they studied mantra shastra to its logical conclusion, they would eventually learn to consciously leave their bodies, but only a few are doing that. They think they have it all...or so they've been conditioned to believe. > > They've got a clue, in my opinion. In my opinion, NO > ONE I've *ever* encountered from an Indian/Hindu-based > tradition does. They are basically *clueless* as to > what happens when they die, and often as fearful of > dying as the "man on the street." (Just look at > Maharishi hiding in his sterile room, afraid to even > interact with other human beings...is this how some- > one who is 'established in Brahman' or even unafraid > of death would act?) Interesting image. Howard Hughes as holistic yogi. > > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > and probably closer to ten. You're going to be lying > on your deathbed, still knowing as little about what > lies in front of you when your body breathes its last > breath as you do today. You'll be about to dive into > an experience that is as much a mystery for you as it > was the day you were born. Whereas a lot of people who > have actually studied with the tradition you like to > make fun of (Tibetan Buddhism) will just be getting > ready to perform a series of meditational exercises > that they've been preparing for their whole lives. They also just might realize, if they died why still living, that human spans are rather short and that it might be helpful to open channels of communication with beings who
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
on 4/8/06 8:09 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. > > (Trivia question here...who can name the movie > that the above quote comes from?) :-) Buckaroo Banzai? > > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > and probably closer to ten. Why so soon? Is Shemp 75? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > How about the documentary "Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion"? > > > > If I'm wrong in my analysis, why not tell me where I'm wrong? > > Well, since you asked... Note that Barry does not answer the question Shemp asked but substitutes his own question, one that enables him to put Shemp down in his answer. > They've got a clue, in my opinion. In my opinion, NO > ONE I've *ever* encountered from an Indian/Hindu-based > tradition does. They are basically *clueless* as to > what happens when they die, and often as fearful of > dying as the "man on the street." (Just look at > Maharishi hiding in his sterile room, afraid to even > interact with other human beings...is this how some- > one who is 'established in Brahman' or even unafraid > of death would act?) Quite possibly, if he felt it was important for him to stay alive as long as possible to complete a crucial task. Fear of death is far from the only reason to postpone it as long as possible. Some might even *prefer* to die rather than hang around but feel a sense of obligation to complete unfinished business. > And to be even more in your face, death is going to > happen -- to YOU -- far sooner than you want it to. > You personally are going to DIE within twenty years, > and probably closer to ten. Shemp is going to die in his early 60s or 70s? And you know this how? You're going to be lying > on your deathbed, still knowing as little about what > lies in front of you when your body breathes its last > breath as you do today. You'll be about to dive into > an experience that is as much a mystery for you as it > was the day you were born. Whereas a lot of people who > have actually studied with the tradition you like to > make fun of (Tibetan Buddhism) will just be getting > ready to perform a series of meditational exercises > that they've been preparing for their whole lives. Or one might be of the opinion that some people are so afraid of mystery and the unknown that they spend significant portions of their lives absorbing others' speculations about the mystery and convincing themselves they have the definitive map to it, as well as putting out a great deal of effort in exercises these same folks have told them will make the mystery less scary when they have to face it. > I'm just sayin', Shemp...that the time before you die > might be better spent figuring out what dying is all > about than it would be trashing the only people on the > planet who seem to be able to *teach* you what dying > is all about. Some may feel that the time before you die should be spent in living that time fully, rather than becoming preoccupied with what might happen after it. It seems to me that the people who are *most* afraid to die are those who spend inordinate amounts of time trying to prepare themselves for it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies > > > > " Seven > > > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > > > Or blame someone so stupid and lazy that he bases > > his bigoted rant against Tibetant Buddhism on the > > little he's seen in the movies. :-) > > Are you saying that Martin Scorcese was wrong? No, merely that for cinematic reasons he shortened a month-long process into about three or four minutes of screen time and that you, like many equally-brain- dead, lazy Americans, thought that those three to four minutes portrayed the whole story. :-) Also, that *as* a brain-dead, lazyass, incurious American, you were content to *settle* for the "movie version" rather than looking into the reality, and exerting a little effort to find out more. :-) > How about the documentary "Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion"? > > If I'm wrong in my analysis, why not tell me where I'm wrong? Well, since you asked...basically I think you're an angry guy who has spent thirty years or so pursuing a spiritual path that has never paid off for him in terms of direct spiritual experience. Therefore, you are jealous of and want to fuck with those whose paths *have* paid off for them in terms of spiritual experience. What gets you off is trying to find things that'll enable you to put down those who have had experiences you have not. In other words, your operating system is Aesopian: sour grapes. You'd rather put down someone else's experiences than do a little work to have your own. :-) > > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > > > Or, much better, read: "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas: A > > Sacred Legacy of Reincarnation," by Dalai Lama XIV, > > Glenn H. Mullin, and Valerie Shepherd. > > > > This book lists the historical "tests" that were > > performed to verify that the kid named as the rein- > > carnation of the previous Dalai Lama really was. > > Unlike the "movie version," the tests often went > > on for a month, five or six such tests per day. > > Failing *any* of them meant that the kid was not > > the right one. > > hahahahahahahahaahaha. > > Dear, dear Barry. I've seen to hit a sore spot. You'd like to think that. But the reality is that, *unlike you*, I've actually *studied* with Tibetan teachers who could *demonstrate* the basis on which they can track beings through their incarnations. I've been there, done that as they did it. It's an utterly fascinating, nigh unto mindblowing experience. And yes, it makes *absolutely no sense* to someone who is attached to Western ways of seeing and think- ing, but damn! -- when you are there participating in the process -- damn if it doesn't work. Go figure. > The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO > for weird and crazy things and here you are defending > probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one > that chooses its leader based on some sort of > fairy tale about reincarnation! > > hahahahahahahahahaha. Laugh while you can, Monkeyboy. (Trivia question here...who can name the movie that the above quote comes from?) :-) The issue, Shemp, is that you're laughing at a group of people who have more knowledge than you do about a certain subject -- death, dying, and reincarnation. And you're laughing at them and trying to put them down, when what a *smart* seeker would be doing is trying to figure out what they know, and whether it might be useful. Did you notice, only a few days ago, how *quickly* the subject of death, dying and reincaration *DIED* here on FFL? The subject came up, a few TMers posted the few rumors that they'd heard about the subject from within the TM movement or from other Indian sources, and a couple of people posted a few more tangible things they'd learned from the Tibetan teachers with whom they'd actually studied. And within a day the subject was no more. Over. Fini. Ignored as if it had never happened. I thought it was a fascinating exchange. The *reason* the subject died so quickly was -- in my opinion -- because the TMers realized how little they actually *knew* about death and dying, and about how the reincarnation process actually works. They were able, when the subject came up, to report only *rumors* that they'd heard from *non-official* TM sources. The discussion made it clear that *at no point* in their entire TM "career" had anyone sat them down and explained to them what death and dying were all about, and how they could best prepare for it. I guess my point is that when it comes to the process of death, dying, and rebirth, you are *not* likely to find out anything of worth b
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > How do you know? All those people who bought them might be running > around in heaven right now, having wild parties and boozing it up. > > Sal > Could be, but I wouldn't bet money on it :-) JohnY > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 7:53 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > > > > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma > > > and like things with a price on them. > > > > > > > It may seem to quantify karma, but it doesn't work. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > [...] > > > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma > > > and like things with a price on them. > > > > > > > It may seem to quantify karma, but it doesn't work. > > The Midieval Roman Church would disagree. > And they laughed all the way to (what became the future BOA) the bank JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
How do you know? All those people who bought them might be running around in heaven right now, having wild parties and boozing it up. Sal On Apr 7, 2006, at 7:53 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma > and like things with a price on them. > It may seem to quantify karma, but it doesn't work.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" [...] > > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma > > and like things with a price on them. > > > > It may seem to quantify karma, but it doesn't work. The Midieval Roman Church would disagree. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" > wrote: > Queen Elizabeth of > > England and all her courtiers and the "Royal" family all look just as > > silly (to my eyes) as the current crop of TMO rajahs. > > > > Yes, but the Brits don't get to enjoy it: > > "Great Britain is one of the world's foremost guilt-driven societies, > says David Holmes, a psychologist who studies the phenomenon at > Manchester Metropolitan University in Manchester, England. If people > there seem too happy, he says, "it's like an admission of guilt. When > you're smiling, people think you've done something wrong." > > http://tinyurl.com/oov8l Wall Street Journal 6Apr2006, page D1 > Is this David S. Holmes? He once published a study on meditation that proved that meditation of any type doesn't work. I wrote an English paper that trashed his study but never got it published. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The TM-org lacks compassion. Had it been a little compassionate and treated it's members like family, it would not be having so many enemies today. > > ShempMcGurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:43:06 -0000 > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp] > > > From day one, I always got the impression that the rank and file were treated like shit in the TMO. > I often think that as well. However, there's a fine line between treating someone like family, and forcing your own beliefs about what is best for your brother onto your brother (speaking from ongoing personal experience). Perhaps the TMO goes too far in "cutting the strings" for the family, but if they went too far in the other direction, they'd be open to even MORE criticism. I *do* think that retirement plans should be available for people. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > > > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though > I > > don't > > > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is > still > > > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to > > people > > > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing > > since > > > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much > on > > money > > > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and > file. > > > > > > > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck > me > > > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's > > just > > > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the > buying > > of > > > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually > > involves > > > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule > a > > > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay > enough > > > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be > > able > > > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. > And > > > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > > > > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to > > enter > > > some religious order. > > > > > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, > holding > > > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're > actually > > > royalty. > > > > > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I > > always > > > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > > > > > > > In the case of the Rajahs, its more than that. The Millionaires > > Course could be seen that way to a certain extent, but the Rajahs > are > > expected to actually *administrate* which is a big difference, > IMHO. > > > > Spare Egg, you should have been around at the time of Stalin. > > You could have been his Minister of Justification. > Really? The Millionaires Course was for millionaires who wanted face time (more or less) with MMY. The Rajas are expected to work FOR the TM organization and they paid good money for that privledge. While you can make a case that they are so gung-ho in their beliefs that they are willing to pay money to be allowed to wear a TMO crown, there are certainly cheaper and easier ways to win accolades from underlings than paying big bucks to work for the TMO at executive level. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though > > I don't > > > > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is > > still > > > > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to > > people > > > > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing > > since > > > > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > > > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much > > on money > > > > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and > > file. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck > > me > > > > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's > > just > > > > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the > > buying of > > > > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually > > involves > > > > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule > > a > > > > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay > > enough > > > > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be > > able > > > > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. > > And > > > > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > > > > > > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to > > enter > > > > some religious order. > > > > > > > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, > > holding > > > > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're > > actually > > > > royalty. > > > > > > > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I > > always > > > > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > > > > > > > > > > It's all been done before - think buying Indulgences. Was that > > before > > > or after the Inquisition? > > > > > > JohnY > > > > > > > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma > > and like things with a price on them. > > > > It may seem to quantify karma, but it doesn't work. ...but it's nice to be da King... > > JohnY > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > > > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though > I don't > > > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is > still > > > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to > people > > > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing > since > > > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much > on money > > > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and > file. > > > > > > > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck > me > > > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's > just > > > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the > buying of > > > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually > involves > > > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule > a > > > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay > enough > > > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be > able > > > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. > And > > > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > > > > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to > enter > > > some religious order. > > > > > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, > holding > > > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're > actually > > > royalty. > > > > > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I > always > > > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > > > > > > > It's all been done before - think buying Indulgences. Was that > before > > or after the Inquisition? > > > > JohnY > > > > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma > and like things with a price on them. > IIRC, Tibetan monks believe that writing out scripture is a religious activity. Some believe that *photocopying* scripture is a religious activity, and hence good karma. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > > > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though > I don't > > > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is > still > > > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to > people > > > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing > since > > > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much > on money > > > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and > file. > > > > > > > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck > me > > > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's > just > > > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the > buying of > > > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually > involves > > > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule > a > > > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay > enough > > > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be > able > > > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. > And > > > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > > > > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to > enter > > > some religious order. > > > > > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, > holding > > > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're > actually > > > royalty. > > > > > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I > always > > > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > > > > > > > It's all been done before - think buying Indulgences. Was that > before > > or after the Inquisition? > > > > JohnY > > > > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma > and like things with a price on them. > It may seem to quantify karma, but it doesn't work. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Chain]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > Once again, for some reason Barry's posts aren't > > showing up on the Web site, so I'm quoting from > > Jason's response. > > > > [Barry wrote:] > > > So were you. It was part and parcel of the TM > > > teaching. And furthermore, YOU still believe it, > > > Shemp; it is part and parcel of what you say on > > > this forum. YOU are the onewho keeps saying > > > that TM is all you need. All we're saying is > > > that you were actually taught to believe that, > > > something you seem to have forgotten. > > I missed this post of Barry's altogether (so, Barry, if you're > wondering why I didn't respond it's because I never saw it!). > > Anyone have a message number for it so I can read it and respond? The original isn't *on* the Web site, Shemp (see the first line at the top of my post). But if you click the Up Thread box, far left at the top of your screen, you can trace a thread back, and you'll get to Jason's post, which quoted Barry's in full. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Queen Elizabeth of > England and all her courtiers and the "Royal" family all look just as > silly (to my eyes) as the current crop of TMO rajahs. Yes, but the Brits don't get to enjoy it: "Great Britain is one of the world's foremost guilt-driven societies, says David Holmes, a psychologist who studies the phenomenon at Manchester Metropolitan University in Manchester, England. If people there seem too happy, he says, "it's like an admission of guilt. When you're smiling, people think you've done something wrong." http://tinyurl.com/oov8l Wall Street Journal 6Apr2006, page D1 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Chain]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Once again, for some reason Barry's posts aren't > showing up on the Web site, so I'm quoting from > Jason's response. > > [Barry wrote:] > > So were you. It was part and parcel of the TM > > teaching. And furthermore, YOU still believe it, > > Shemp; it is part and parcel of what you say on > > this forum. YOU are the onewho keeps saying > > that TM is all you need. All we're saying is > > that you were actually taught to believe that, > > something you seem to have forgotten. I missed this post of Barry's altogether (so, Barry, if you're wondering why I didn't respond it's because I never saw it!). Anyone have a message number for it so I can read it and respond? > > (Not sure who the "we" is here.) > > The sort of people who aren't very deep or rigorous > thinkers may well believe something simply because > it was taught to them; apparently that was the case > with Barry when he was in the movement, so he > imputes this tendency in a blanket fashion to anyone > who agrees with something taught by the movement, > because he can't conceive of any other way of > arriving at that particular point of view. > > But of course that *isn't* the only way, not for > people who use their brains. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
The TM-org lacks compassion. Had it been a little compassionate and treated it's members like family, it would not be having so many enemies today.ShempMcGurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:43:06 -0000Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp] From day one, I always got the impression that the rank and file were treated like shit in the TMO. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I > don't > > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to > people > > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing > since > > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on > money > > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. > > > > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck me > > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's > just > > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying > of > > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually > involves > > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a > > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay enough > > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be > able > > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. And > > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to > enter > > some religious order. > > > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding > > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually > > royalty. > > > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I > always > > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > > > > In the case of the Rajahs, its more than that. The Millionaires > Course could be seen that way to a certain extent, but the Rajahs are > expected to actually *administrate* which is a big difference, IMHO. > Spare Egg, you should have been around at the time of Stalin. You could have been his Minister of Justification. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. > > > > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck me > > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's just > > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying of > > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually involves > > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a > > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay enough > > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be able > > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. And > > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to enter > > some religious order. > > > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding > > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually > > royalty. > > > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I always > > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > > > > It's all been done before - think buying Indulgences. Was that before > or after the Inquisition? > > JohnY > I love the idea of indulgences. It quanitifies the field of karma and like things with a price on them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > First, What is your definition of insanity.?? > > > > > > It would be complex, because insanity is a complex > > > subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it > > > would include defining as insane people who give > > > themselves the titles of kings and expect others to > > > honor those titles. > > > > Who expects anyone to honor the rajah titles, even within the TMO? > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. >From day one, I always got the impression that the rank and file were treated like shit in the TMO. > > > It would also include those > > > stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles. :-) > > > > > > Who DOES honor those titles outside the ceremonies of the club that > > they belong to? > > You're right, no-one ... but MMY has expressed genuine disappointment > that Hagelin was not elected president and at other rather bizarre > notions, so it seems he and others in the inner circle might take > these titles very seriously. > > > > > Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore > > > > the teachings completely. That would be like throwing > > > > the baby along with the bathwater. > > > > > > Some babies deserve to be thrown out. I'm with Shemp > > > on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever* > > > of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM. > > > > > I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and > > > thus potentially valuable. I think that everything > > > else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and > > > all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out. > > > > The Sidhis aren't of value? Amrit kalash isn't? Ayurveda isn't > > sweeping the country in popularity? > > Ayurved is popular in new agey and wholistic circles, but not sweeping > the nation IMO, and sweeping mainly in Chopra and Weil circles. Amrit > kalash is sweeping the emerging diabetics section of the country. The > issue for me isn't whether these alternative programs have potential > value, but how the tmo has managed them - the enlightenment centers in > malls plan is a joke and sweeping towards bankrupcy, but no-one dares > contradicts or gives reality checks to raja wynne or MMY. > > > > > Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be > > > > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement. > > > > > > Who said a big movement was necessary? That's the > > > question that True Believers never seem to ask them- > > > selves. Many spiritual organizations (for example, > > > Vipassana) have entirely volunteer organizations that > > > teach for free and end up teaching ten to twenty times > > > the number of people worldwide to meditate that the > > > TM organization does. > > > > Vipassana has taught 3 million in this country? > > This is a really interesting pt. There has to be some middle ground > between being a effective (corporate-like) marketing org. (which is > necessary to actually reach people today) and being obsessed with > marketing driven by greed or culty evangelical zeal (which ultimately > undermines your original mission). I think the tmo balanced it pretty > well in the 70s. > > > In my opinion, the TMO has turned > > > into an entity primarily concerned with perpetuating > > > itself, not with helping others. The goals of the > > > organization are long forgotten; all that matters now > > > is perpetuating the organization. > > > > At this point in time, you may be correct. OTOH, the upcoming seminar > > on TM and its effect on education and ADHD is expected to have over > > 100 people. True, the invited guests don't have to pay for their > > lunch atthe Tucson Hilton, but even so, it's a good start. > > Certainly lots of potential for marketing TM via specific areas like > high blood pressure, ADHD and others, but doesn't seem to be the > desire of the central org. who whole heartedly believe MMY and the TMO > are the only hope for world salvation right now and who want billions > to achieve it. For 2 decades now these good little projects have > withered away for this reason. > > > > > Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and > > > > leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary. > > > > > > IMO, there have never been any "m
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:47 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's all almost as silly as naming some 5-year-old peasant > > > > > boy the > > > > > Dalai Lama because he can recognize a shoe that the recently- > > > > > departed Dalai Lama once wore... > > > > > > > > You're obviously not familiar with the real story if that's > > > > what you believe! > > > > > > > > The real story is pretty amazing. > > > > > > Okay, it was eyeglasses or some such nonsense. > > > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies > > > " Seven > > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > Or blame someone so stupid and lazy that he bases > his bigoted rant against Tibetant Buddhism on the > little he's seen in the movies. :-) Are you saying that Martin Scorcese was wrong? How about the documentary "Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion"? If I'm wrong in my analysis, why not tell me where I'm wrong? > > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > Or, much better, read: "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas: A > Sacred Legacy of Reincarnation," by Dalai Lama XIV, > Glenn H. Mullin, and Valerie Shepherd. > > This book lists the historical "tests" that were > performed to verify that the kid named as the rein- > carnation of the previous Dalai Lama really was. > Unlike the "movie version," the tests often went > on for a month, five or six such tests per day. > Failing *any* of them meant that the kid was not > the right one. hahahahahahahahaahaha. Dear, dear Barry. I've seen to hit a sore spot. The man who takes every opportunity to hit the TMO for weird and crazy things and here you are defending probably one of the weirdest cults of them all: one that chooses its leader based on some sort of fairy tale about reincarnation! hahahahahahahahahaha. > > It's an odd science, but as far as I can tell, a > real one. > "It's an odd science but as far as I can tell, a real one." Now that's a doozy of a quote. It speaks volumes all by itself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Chain]
Once again, for some reason Barry's posts aren't showing up on the Web site, so I'm quoting from Jason's response. [Barry wrote:] > So were you. It was part and parcel of the TM > teaching. And furthermore, YOU still believe it, > Shemp; it is part and parcel of what you say on > this forum. YOU are the onewho keeps saying > that TM is all you need. All we're saying is > that you were actually taught to believe that, > something you seem to have forgotten. (Not sure who the "we" is here.) The sort of people who aren't very deep or rigorous thinkers may well believe something simply because it was taught to them; apparently that was the case with Barry when he was in the movement, so he imputes this tendency in a blanket fashion to anyone who agrees with something taught by the movement, because he can't conceive of any other way of arriving at that particular point of view. But of course that *isn't* the only way, not for people who use their brains. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Chain]
I wrote about this to quite a few people. NoBody except Sir Rick Archer bothered to reply. I think this idea of Superiority has become a Dogma. The sooner the TM movement gets rid of this Chain [Golden Chain] the better off it will be. I think it's Voltaire who said, "Only fools rever the chains that bind them." TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 08:16:13 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes So were you. It was part and parcel of the TM teaching. And furthermore, YOU still believe it, Shemp; it is part and parcel of what you say on this forum. YOU are the onewho keeps saying that TM is all you need. All we're sayingis that you were actually taught to believe that, something you seem to have forgotten. The issue, as I see it, is that the TM approach tospiritual development *IS* seriously limited, and in my opinion deals with primarily "elementary school"aspects of the enlightenment process. Knowing this,and knowing that he didn't really have anything to offer *other* than elementary school topics, Maharishihas since pretty much Day One endeavored to makepeople comfortable with staying in elementary schoolforever.First, he made it "off the program" to read books from other traditions or see other teachers. This is smart because if you never know that there is more out there than the TM movement offers, you'll never miss it. Second, Maharishi created a *very* strong "TM is thebest and *all* other techniques and traditions are lesser" mindset in his students. You see it here *EVERY DAY*, whether it manifests itself as the pure bigotry of a Bob Brigante or just the ignorance of TMers who are just "believin' what they were told." This mindset contributes to people being complacent about what they are taught by the TM movement and accepting of it as "all that *needs* to be taught." They think, "*Because* all other techniques and traditions are lesser than TM, what could they possibly have to teach me?" They have so thoroughly accepted the "TM is best" bullshit that it has become a set of blinders for them, keeping them from even *noticing* that there are huge aspects of the spiritual process that TM doesn't even touch on in its teachings.Third, Maharishi created an Inquisition-like arm of the TM movement, whose job it is to come down on those for which the first two techniques don't work, and who *were* curious enough to study other traditions. When that happens, the first step is usually a proclamation, declaring that "IT'S NOT TM" and will not be countenanced. (Similar to the recent proclamation about diksha.) The next step after that is to excommunicate anyone who still persists in this "off the program" activity.At the end of the process, you have gotten rid of any-one who had the first-hand experience of having learned things of value that the TM movement doesn't teach (or in many cases, even know about), *and* you have created an example for the remaining students of *what happens to them* if they *dare* to learn anything but the elementary school stuff fed to them by the TMO.It's a pretty fascinating cycle to watch, even after all these years. The only thing I can really feel about it all is compassion for those who have submitted to this stuff, and even more compassion for those who claim it wasn't done to them, and that they became the TM bigots they are all on their own. I mean, compassion IS in order; there are a lot of smart people on the TM internet forums who really could have done something with their spiritual aspirations. But instead they *settled* for repeating elementary school over and over and over, in some cases for thirty years or more. And now they spend their days lashing out at anyone who suggests *that* they settled for elementary school. It's really a mindstate to be pitied, not reacted to. New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:51 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: While I agree, I might point out that the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) is a real bargain if what you want is a fancy title. All you do is make up your own, make sure that the name could have existed during the time period and geographical location your persona lived in but didn't actually exist (in other words, you can't use the names of real historical characters), and voila, you're Lord Whatever of Wherever. And you don't even have to pay a million. They're big here in the US, I've come across a number of people involved with it in my weaving forays. You can choose your own costume, too. Most of the crowns one sees in SCA gatherings are *much* nicer and more tasteful than the TMO Burger King crowns. And all in all, this is just good fantasy fun, more so because at the end of the weekend or whatever, you just go home and resume your real life don't have to pretend any more. Unlike the rajas, who are stuck with pretending that their version of fancy titles and dressup *are* real life. :-) I'd like to see one of them try and get on a plane wearing those get-ups... Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > wrote: > > > > It's all been done before - think buying Indulgences. Was > > that before or after the Inquisition? > > The practice of 'buying indulgences' was long before > the Inquisition. The Cathars formed their sect in > reaction to the selling of indulgences and the other > corruption in the Roman Church. The Inquisition was > then formed to deal with the Cathars. > We haven't quite made it to the 'Cathars' stage yet? Ingegred, look out... :-) JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I > don't > > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to > people > > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing > since > > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on > money > > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and > file. > > > > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck > me > > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's > just > > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying > of > > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually > involves > > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a > > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay > enough > > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be > able > > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. > And > > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to > enter > > some religious order. > > > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding > > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually > > royalty. > > > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I > always > > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > > While I agree, I might point out that the SCA > (Society for Creative Anachronism) is a real > bargain if what you want is a fancy title. All > you do is make up your own, make sure that the > name could have existed during the time period > and geographical location your persona lived in > but didn't actually exist (in other words, you > can't use the names of real historical characters), > and voila, you're Lord Whatever of Wherever. > > You can choose your own costume, too. Most > of the crowns one sees in SCA gatherings are > *much* nicer and more tasteful than the TMO > Burger King crowns. > > And all in all, this is just good fantasy fun, > more so because at the end of the weekend or > whatever, you just go home and resume your real > life don't have to pretend any more. Unlike the > rajas, who are stuck with pretending that their > version of fancy titles and dressup *are* real > life. :-) > Er, it takes a LOT of work to get a title past "M'Lord" or "M'Lady" in the SCA. In theory, one must show that one would be able to make a living as a musician to be awarded a title for being a musician, as a blacksmith for being blacksmith, as an artisan for being an artisan, etc., and you must present your talents in a period-appropriate manner by performing period music or dance, or creating period instruments, or manufacturing reasonably period armor, etc. of the required quality. For the fighting titles, you must beat all the other young bucks (or buckettes -there are have been a few fighting baronesses and princesses in the SCA, and I believe one "Queen in Her own right") at your level of the SCA, and for the title of "king" you must not only defeat all comers at the Kingdom level, but must commit to presiding over a certain number of SCA functions over the next year, many of which require a LOT of travel time, or expensive plane tickets, since a Kingdom usually covers several states and you gotta be willing to visit most of your Realm over the period of your reign. BTW, your average Baron or King *does* live the SCA most of the time, outside of work. Not only do they have to attend those out-of-town royal functions, but in order to become king, one must become a master of broadsword, ax, mace, etc., by putting in just as many hours of practice as any karate blackbelt does to prepair for a tournement match. And those damn rattan swords HURT, even through the padded armor. --Sparrow the Incorrigible, Anno Societatis 8 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It's all been done before - think buying Indulgences. Was > that before or after the Inquisition? The practice of 'buying indulgences' was long before the Inquisition. The Cathars formed their sect in reaction to the selling of indulgences and the other corruption in the Roman Church. The Inquisition was then formed to deal with the Cathars. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck me > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's just > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying of > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually involves > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay enough > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be able > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. And > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to enter > some religious order. > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually > royalty. > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I always > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > In the case of the Rajahs, its more than that. The Millionaires Course could be seen that way to a certain extent, but the Rajahs are expected to actually *administrate* which is a big difference, IMHO. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck me > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's just > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying of > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually involves > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay enough > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be able > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. And > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to enter > some religious order. > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually > royalty. > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I always > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > It's all been done before - think buying Indulgences. Was that before or after the Inquisition? JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > First, What is your definition of insanity.?? > > > > > > It would be complex, because insanity is a complex > > > subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it > > > would include defining as insane people who give > > > themselves the titles of kings and expect others to > > > honor those titles. > > > > Who expects anyone to honor the rajah titles, even within the TMO? > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. How much money did Chopra or Bevan or Hagelin contribute? > > > It would also include those > > > stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles. :-) > > > > > > Who DOES honor those titles outside the ceremonies of the club that > > they belong to? > > You're right, no-one ... but MMY has expressed genuine disappointment > that Hagelin was not elected president and at other rather bizarre > notions, so it seems he and others in the inner circle might take > these titles very seriously. Given a choice (leaving aside the political connection issues) between Hagelin and Bush, I think Hagelin would have been no worse than Bush. > > > > > Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore > > > > the teachings completely. That would be like throwing > > > > the baby along with the bathwater. > > > > > > Some babies deserve to be thrown out. I'm with Shemp > > > on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever* > > > of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM. > > > > > I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and > > > thus potentially valuable. I think that everything > > > else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and > > > all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out. > > > > The Sidhis aren't of value? Amrit kalash isn't? Ayurveda isn't > > sweeping the country in popularity? > > Ayurved is popular in new agey and wholistic circles, but not sweeping > the nation IMO, and sweeping mainly in Chopra and Weil circles. But Chopra is an offshoot of Maharishi Ayurveda and Weil is well, Weil. He's influential, but not Oprah material. Amrit > kalash is sweeping the emerging diabetics section of the country. The > issue for me isn't whether these alternative programs have potential > value, but how the tmo has managed them - the enlightenment centers in > malls plan is a joke and sweeping towards bankrupcy, but no-one dares > contradicts or gives reality checks to raja wynne or MMY. I'll have to get back to you on that one. The Tucson Maharishi Enlightenment Center is now open or soon will be. I haven't checked the physical location, so I don't know what the deal is. > > > > > Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be > > > > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement. > > > > > > Who said a big movement was necessary? That's the > > > question that True Believers never seem to ask them- > > > selves. Many spiritual organizations (for example, > > > Vipassana) have entirely volunteer organizations that > > > teach for free and end up teaching ten to twenty times > > > the number of people worldwide to meditate that the > > > TM organization does. > > > > Vipassana has taught 3 million in this country? > > This is a really interesting pt. There has to be some middle ground > between being a effective (corporate-like) marketing org. (which is > necessary to actually reach people today) and being obsessed with > marketing driven by greed or culty evangelical zeal (which ultimately > undermines your original mission). I think the tmo balanced it pretty > well in the 70s. Not really. They had people banging on their door in the 70's. There was no need for competency back then. > > > In my opinion, the TMO has turned > > > into an entity primarily concerned with perpetuating > > > itself, not with helping others. The goals of the > > > organization are long forgotten; all that matters now > > > is perpetuating the organization. > > > > At this point in time, you may be correct. OTOH, the upcoming seminar > > on TM and its effect on education and ADHD is expected to have over > > 100 people. True, the invited guests don't have to pay for their > > lunch atthe Tucson Hilton, but even so, it's a good start. > > Certainly lots of potential for marketi
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck me > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's just > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying of > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually involves > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay enough > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be able > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. And > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to enter > some religious order. > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually > royalty. > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I always > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. > **END** The scam of titles and the nobility has always existed in the same way. It was always about property and affluence. Queen Elizabeth of England and all her courtiers and the "Royal" family all look just as silly (to my eyes) as the current crop of TMO rajahs. The only real difference is that the House of Windsor has been in place within the cultural context of England for so long (though not under that name) that there is a presumed legitimacy that the TMO rajahs don't yet have (if ever). There are so many "titled" Europeans that they're categorized as eurotrash. Governmental authority only exists if you believe it does. When that belief gets shaky then the government starts imposing its authority by other means. Mao's statement that the only real power comes from the barrel of a gun is the expression of the authority of a government either on the way up or on the way down from recognized legitimacy. Real authority is expressed by someone like Guru Dev who spent his life in the solitude of the Self. All the rest of this stuff is funny hats. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > > > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. > > > It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck me > that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's just > that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying of > titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually involves > is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a > country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay enough > money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be able > to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. And > every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. > > It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to enter > some religious order. > > It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding > fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually > royalty. > > It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I always > knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. While I agree, I might point out that the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) is a real bargain if what you want is a fancy title. All you do is make up your own, make sure that the name could have existed during the time period and geographical location your persona lived in but didn't actually exist (in other words, you can't use the names of real historical characters), and voila, you're Lord Whatever of Wherever. You can choose your own costume, too. Most of the crowns one sees in SCA gatherings are *much* nicer and more tasteful than the TMO Burger King crowns. And all in all, this is just good fantasy fun, more so because at the end of the weekend or whatever, you just go home and resume your real life don't have to pretend any more. Unlike the rajas, who are stuck with pretending that their version of fancy titles and dressup *are* real life. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
On Apr 7, 2006, at 9:48 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote: > Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't > consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still > giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people > based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since > the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to > whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money > all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. It's interesting that you mention this, the thought just struck me that this type of thing is going on constantly in the west, it's just that most probably never aware of it. I'm referring to the buying of titles. It's actually quite a big business. What it usually involves is giving money to some foreign ruler, most who no longer rule a country or are simply members of royal families. If you pay enough money they will give you a title. This will authorize you to be able to wear certain regalia, add certain titles to your name, etc. And every now and then you can pay money to hang with various royals. It's also popular in Neo-Templar circles where you pay money to enter some religious order. It's quite expensive, but some people are really into it, holding fancy parties where they congregate and act like they're actually royalty. It just dawned on me that this is basically the same scam. I always knew it was a scam, but this puts it in perspective. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock > > wrote: > > > > > > First, What is your definition of insanity.?? > > > > It would be complex, because insanity is a complex > > subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it > > would include defining as insane people who give > > themselves the titles of kings and expect others to > > honor those titles. > > Who expects anyone to honor the rajah titles, even within the TMO? Those full-time in the tmo definitely honor the titles, though I don't consider that insane. My main problem here is that MMY is still giving out aristocratic titles and positions of authority to people based on their financial contributions, which has been ongoing since the 108 days. I'm all for recognizing people who contribute to whatever cause, but I think basing a spiritual mov't so much on money all these yrs has undermined the heart value of the rank and file. > It would also include those > > stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles. :-) > > > Who DOES honor those titles outside the ceremonies of the club that > they belong to? You're right, no-one ... but MMY has expressed genuine disappointment that Hagelin was not elected president and at other rather bizarre notions, so it seems he and others in the inner circle might take these titles very seriously. > > > Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore > > > the teachings completely. That would be like throwing > > > the baby along with the bathwater. > > > > Some babies deserve to be thrown out. I'm with Shemp > > on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever* > > of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM. > > > I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and > > thus potentially valuable. I think that everything > > else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and > > all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out. > > The Sidhis aren't of value? Amrit kalash isn't? Ayurveda isn't > sweeping the country in popularity? Ayurved is popular in new agey and wholistic circles, but not sweeping the nation IMO, and sweeping mainly in Chopra and Weil circles. Amrit kalash is sweeping the emerging diabetics section of the country. The issue for me isn't whether these alternative programs have potential value, but how the tmo has managed them - the enlightenment centers in malls plan is a joke and sweeping towards bankrupcy, but no-one dares contradicts or gives reality checks to raja wynne or MMY. > > > Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be > > > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement. > > > > Who said a big movement was necessary? That's the > > question that True Believers never seem to ask them- > > selves. Many spiritual organizations (for example, > > Vipassana) have entirely volunteer organizations that > > teach for free and end up teaching ten to twenty times > > the number of people worldwide to meditate that the > > TM organization does. > > Vipassana has taught 3 million in this country? This is a really interesting pt. There has to be some middle ground between being a effective (corporate-like) marketing org. (which is necessary to actually reach people today) and being obsessed with marketing driven by greed or culty evangelical zeal (which ultimately undermines your original mission). I think the tmo balanced it pretty well in the 70s. > In my opinion, the TMO has turned > > into an entity primarily concerned with perpetuating > > itself, not with helping others. The goals of the > > organization are long forgotten; all that matters now > > is perpetuating the organization. > > At this point in time, you may be correct. OTOH, the upcoming seminar > on TM and its effect on education and ADHD is expected to have over > 100 people. True, the invited guests don't have to pay for their > lunch atthe Tucson Hilton, but even so, it's a good start. Certainly lots of potential for marketing TM via specific areas like high blood pressure, ADHD and others, but doesn't seem to be the desire of the central org. who whole heartedly believe MMY and the TMO are the only hope for world salvation right now and who want billions to achieve it. For 2 decades now these good little projects have withered away for this reason. > > > Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and > > > leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary. > > > > IMO, there have never been any "masters" in history, > > only people who longed to be subservient and thus > > picked someone to be subservient to so that they > > could call them "master." > Which is why I still call my ole gung fu teacher "sifu" when I see > him, and why I call my former Japanese teacher "Yamashita-sensei," > even though he hasn't been my teacher in over a year, when he calls > to say hi. Sounds like you're gi
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 7, 2006, at 8:00 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > Or, much better, read: "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas: A > Sacred Legacy of Reincarnation," by Dalai Lama XIV, > Glenn H. Mullin, and Valerie Shepherd. > > This book lists the historical "tests" that were > performed to verify that the kid named as the rein- > carnation of the previous Dalai Lama really was. > Unlike the "movie version," the tests often went > on for a month, five or six such tests per day. > Failing *any* of them meant that the kid was not > the right one. > > It's an odd science, but as far as I can tell, a > real one. Glenn is an excellent translator, I'll get a copy of this one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:47 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > It's all almost as silly as naming some 5-year-old peasant > > > > boy the > > > > Dalai Lama because he can recognize a shoe that the recently- > > > > departed Dalai Lama once wore... > > > > > > You're obviously not familiar with the real story if that's > > > what you believe! > > > > > > The real story is pretty amazing. > > > > Okay, it was eyeglasses or some such nonsense. > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies > > " Seven > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... Or blame someone so stupid and lazy that he bases his bigoted rant against Tibetant Buddhism on the little he's seen in the movies. :-) > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. Or, much better, read: "The Fourteen Dalai Lamas: A Sacred Legacy of Reincarnation," by Dalai Lama XIV, Glenn H. Mullin, and Valerie Shepherd. This book lists the historical "tests" that were performed to verify that the kid named as the rein- carnation of the previous Dalai Lama really was. Unlike the "movie version," the tests often went on for a month, five or six such tests per day. Failing *any* of them meant that the kid was not the right one. It's an odd science, but as far as I can tell, a real one. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock > wrote: > > > > First, What is your definition of insanity.?? > > It would be complex, because insanity is a complex > subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it > would include defining as insane people who give > themselves the titles of kings and expect others to > honor those titles. Who expects anyone to honor the rajah titles, even within the TMO? It would also include those > stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles. :-) Who DOES honor those titles outside the ceremonies of the club that they belong to? > > > Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore > > the teachings completely. That would be like throwing > > the baby along with the bathwater. > > Some babies deserve to be thrown out. I'm with Shemp > on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever* > of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM. > I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and > thus potentially valuable. I think that everything > else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and > all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out. The Sidhis aren't of value? Amrit kalash isn't? Ayurveda isn't sweeping the country in popularity? > > > Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be > > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement. > > Who said a big movement was necessary? That's the > question that True Believers never seem to ask them- > selves. Many spiritual organizations (for example, > Vipassana) have entirely volunteer organizations that > teach for free and end up teaching ten to twenty times > the number of people worldwide to meditate that the > TM organization does. Vipassana has taught 3 million in this country? In my opinion, the TMO has turned > into an entity primarily concerned with perpetuating > itself, not with helping others. The goals of the > organization are long forgotten; all that matters now > is perpetuating the organization. At this point in time, you may be correct. OTOH, the upcoming seminar on TM and its effect on education and ADHD is expected to have over 100 people. True, the invited guests don't have to pay for their lunch atthe Tucson Hilton, but even so, it's a good start. > > > Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and > > leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary. > > IMO, there have never been any "masters" in history, > only people who longed to be subservient and thus > picked someone to be subservient to so that they > could call them "master." > Which is why I still call my ole gung fu teacher "sifu" when I see him, and why I call my former Japanese teacher "Yamashita-sensei," even though he hasn't been my teacher in over a year, when he calls to say hi. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > First, What is your definition of insanity.?? It would be complex, because insanity is a complex subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it would include defining as insane people who give themselves the titles of kings and expect others to honor those titles. It would also include those stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles. :-) > Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore > the teachings completely. That would be like throwing > the baby along with the bathwater. Some babies deserve to be thrown out. I'm with Shemp on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever* of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM. I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and thus potentially valuable. I think that everything else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out. > Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement. Who said a big movement was necessary? That's the question that True Believers never seem to ask them- selves. Many spiritual organizations (for example, Vipassana) have entirely volunteer organizations that teach for free and end up teaching ten to twenty times the number of people worldwide to meditate that the TM organization does. In my opinion, the TMO has turned into an entity primarily concerned with perpetuating itself, not with helping others. The goals of the organization are long forgotten; all that matters now is perpetuating the organization. > Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and > leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary. IMO, there have never been any "masters" in history, only people who longed to be subservient and thus picked someone to be subservient to so that they could call them "master." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:49 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't > > > > need anything else... > > > > > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that. > > > > No, it's probably because YOU were taught that... So were you. It was part and parcel of the TM teaching. And furthermore, YOU still believe it, Shemp; it is part and parcel of what you say on this forum. YOU are the one who keeps saying that TM is all you need. All we're saying is that you were actually taught to believe that, something you seem to have forgotten. > > ...and believed it and > > therefore think that all other TMers must think the way you > > Not at all Shemp. When you see where the road stopped and see the > methods continue, it's pretty darn obvious. The issue, as I see it, is that the TM approach to spiritual development *IS* seriously limited, and in my opinion deals with primarily "elementary school" aspects of the enlightenment process. Knowing this, and knowing that he didn't really have anything to offer *other* than elementary school topics, Maharishi has since pretty much Day One endeavored to make people comfortable with staying in elementary school forever. First, he made it "off the program" to read books from other traditions or see other teachers. This is smart because if you never know that there is more out there than the TM movement offers, you'll never miss it. Second, Maharishi created a *very* strong "TM is the best and *all* other techniques and traditions are lesser" mindset in his students. You see it here *EVERY DAY*, whether it manifests itself as the pure bigotry of a Bob Brigante or just the ignorance of TMers who are just "believin' what they were told." This mindset contributes to people being complacent about what they are taught by the TM movement and accepting of it as "all that *needs* to be taught." They think, "*Because* all other techniques and traditions are lesser than TM, what could they possibly have to teach me?" They have so thoroughly accepted the "TM is best" bullshit that it has become a set of blinders for them, keeping them from even *noticing* that there are huge aspects of the spiritual process that TM doesn't even touch on in its teachings. Third, Maharishi created an Inquisition-like arm of the TM movement, whose job it is to come down on those for which the first two techniques don't work, and who *were* curious enough to study other traditions. When that happens, the first step is usually a proclamation, declaring that "IT'S NOT TM" and will not be countenanced. (Similar to the recent proclamation about diksha.) The next step after that is to excommunicate anyone who still persists in this "off the program" activity. At the end of the process, you have gotten rid of any- one who had the first-hand experience of having learned things of value that the TM movement doesn't teach (or in many cases, even know about), *and* you have created an example for the remaining students of *what happens to them* if they *dare* to learn anything but the elementary school stuff fed to them by the TMO. It's a pretty fascinating cycle to watch, even after all these years. The only thing I can really feel about it all is compassion for those who have submitted to this stuff, and even more compassion for those who claim it wasn't done to them, and that they became the TM bigots they are all on their own. I mean, compassion IS in order; there are a lot of smart people on the TM internet forums who really could have done something with their spiritual aspirations. But instead they *settled* for repeating elementary school over and over and over, in some cases for thirty years or more. And now they spend their days lashing out at anyone who suggests *that* they settled for elementary school. It's really a mindstate to be pitied, not reacted to. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > First, What is your definition of insanity.?? It would be complex, because insanity is a complex subject, but I'm pretty sure that one aspect of it would include people who give themselves the titles of kings and expect others to honor those titles. It would also include those stupid enough *to* honor these self-given titles. :-) > Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore > the teachings completely. That would be like throwing > the baby along with the bathwater. Some babies deserve to be thrown out. I'm with Shemp on this one -- the *only* teaching I think was *ever* of worth in the TM movement was how to do basic TM. I think that's a good start for almost anyone, and thus potentially valuable. I think that everything else, including the siddhis and the diet advice and all the "Vedic" bullshit, is better thrown out. > Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be > necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement. Who said a big movement was necessary? It has turned into an entity mostly concerned with continuing itself, not with helping others. Also, anyone who can actually *justify* "snake oil" (that is, lying) to further a goal they think is worthy has already lost his soul. > Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and > leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary. There have never been any "masters" in history, only people who longed to be subservient and thus picked someone to be subservient to so that they could call them "master." > TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:11:01 - > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp] > > > And you believe this is sane? > > > > > - > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
on 4/6/06 6:18 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> I always knew that "pie hole" was willytex's line but I thought >> that "go figure" was his, too... > > I think Willytex stole it from Barry. > > BTW, I looked up "pie hole" but couldn't find much. It > seems to be a variant on the British "cake hole." > Apparently the Oxford English Dictionary credits Stephen > King, of all people, for inventing it. At least, the > first known use in print is from "Christine." > > Other than that, I doubt there's much to be explained > about it. At some point, somebody thought of "Shut yer > cake hole" as a clever way to say "Shut yer mouth" and > sound even more insulting, and others picked it up. Robert De Niro uses it a lot (and obnoxiously) in this movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108330/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > > It's not standard English, at least in the USA, to refer to a > grown > > > woman as a "girl" these days. Women's Libbers called men on it > all > > > the time in the 70's because it is belittling someone else by > > > implying that you are older and wiser. > > > > The poor men. Originally it was intended as a > > compliment, suggesting that the female in question > > was still in the full bloom of youth and therefore > > physically attractive. Of course that was sexist > > in and of itself, but that was in the days before > > we knew there was such a thing as sexism. > > > > Nowadays, if you want to casually address a group > > of women, instead of saying, "Hey, girls," or "Hey, > > ladies," you say, "Hey, guys..." > > > > As Barry would say, Go figure. > > I always knew that "pie hole" was willytex's line but I thought > that "go figure" was his, too... I think Willytex stole it from Barry. BTW, I looked up "pie hole" but couldn't find much. It seems to be a variant on the British "cake hole." Apparently the Oxford English Dictionary credits Stephen King, of all people, for inventing it. At least, the first known use in print is from "Christine." Other than that, I doubt there's much to be explained about it. At some point, somebody thought of "Shut yer cake hole" as a clever way to say "Shut yer mouth" and sound even more insulting, and others picked it up. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > It's not standard English, at least in the USA, to refer to a grown > > woman as a "girl" these days. Women's Libbers called men on it all > > the time in the 70's because it is belittling someone else by > > implying that you are older and wiser. > > The poor men. Originally it was intended as a > compliment, suggesting that the female in question > was still in the full bloom of youth and therefore > physically attractive. Of course that was sexist > in and of itself, but that was in the days before > we knew there was such a thing as sexism. > > Nowadays, if you want to casually address a group > of women, instead of saying, "Hey, girls," or "Hey, > ladies," you say, "Hey, guys..." > > As Barry would say, Go figure. > I always knew that "pie hole" was willytex's line but I thought that "go figure" was his, too... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2006, at 6:10 PM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:46 PM, sparaig wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't
> > need
> > > > > > anything else...
> > > > >
> > > > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe
that.
> > > > >
> > > > > When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the
mantra
> > in
> > > > > all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you
need to
> > > > > pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't
taught
> > in
> > > > TM.
> > > > > It's as Barry described, a beginning.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So the guys reporting witnessing 24/7 are merely reflecting
> > beliefs?
> > >
> > > Self reporting would always be an issue in the TMO as far as I'm
> > > concerned.
> > >
> > > Also understand none are able to demonstrate the full definition
> > of
> > > witnessing (sakshin).
> >
> > OK, what is the "full definition of witnessing"and how do you know
> > that none of them are able to demonstrate it given that you don't
> > know who these people are?
> >
> > Nor the full definition of turiyatita ("Cosmic
> > > Consciousness").
> >
> > See above.
> >
> > There are some elementary, hopeful signs perhaps.
> > > Given the fact these people have been meditating for a very long
> > > while, it's not that great IMO.
>
> I suggest you look into it yourself. I don't have time to argue
> and listen to the whining.
You can't ask Vaj to *explain* himself, silly. His
thing is to make pronouncements.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > > "Girl" doesn't necessarily mean underage. When the Beatles > > sang "Girl" (Norwegian Wood) they weren't referring to a 14-year- > > old. > > Esp. when the "girls" I was referring to were all of legal age, as > we well know. Were any of them underage? If they were that's news > to me. Maybe Judy has something she wants to tell us? They're just > playing games or too busy with their own dramas. Vaj also seems to have conveniently forgotten his references to MMY as a "pervert." Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's not standard English, at least in the USA, to refer to a grown > woman as a "girl" these days. Women's Libbers called men on it all > the time in the 70's because it is belittling someone else by > implying that you are older and wiser. The poor men. Originally it was intended as a compliment, suggesting that the female in question was still in the full bloom of youth and therefore physically attractive. Of course that was sexist in and of itself, but that was in the days before we knew there was such a thing as sexism. Nowadays, if you want to casually address a group of women, instead of saying, "Hey, girls," or "Hey, ladies," you say, "Hey, guys..." As Barry would say, Go figure. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
First, What is your definition of insanity.?? Second, it may not be sane, but you cannot ignore the teachings completely. That would be like throwing the baby along with the bathwater. Third, A little bit of Snake-Oil might be necessary to grease the wheels of a big movement. Fourth, Take what is good in all the masters and leave out the irrelevant and the unnecessary. TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:11:01 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp] And you believe this is sane? Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2006, at 6:10 PM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:46 PM, sparaig wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't
> > need
> > > > > > anything else...
> > > > >
> > > > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe
that.
> > > > >
> > > > > When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the
mantra
> > in
> > > > > all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you
need to
> > > > > pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't
taught
> > in
> > > > TM.
> > > > > It's as Barry described, a beginning.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So the guys reporting witnessing 24/7 are merely reflecting
> > beliefs?
> > >
> > > Self reporting would always be an issue in the TMO as far as I'm
> > > concerned.
> > >
> > > Also understand none are able to demonstrate the full definition
> > of
> > > witnessing (sakshin).
> >
> > OK, what is the "full definition of witnessing"and how do you know
> > that none of them are able to demonstrate it given that you don't
> > know who these people are?
> >
> > Nor the full definition of turiyatita ("Cosmic
> > > Consciousness").
> >
> > See above.
> >
> > There are some elementary, hopeful signs perhaps.
> > > Given the fact these people have been meditating for a very long
> > > while, it's not that great IMO.
> > >
>
> I suggest you look into it yourself. I don't have time to argue
and
> listen to the whining.
>
Ilooked up the word online and only found reference to "witness."
Perhaps you could give me a tad more to go on?
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 6, 2006, at 6:10 PM, sparaig wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:46 PM, sparaig wrote:
> >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't
> need
> > > > > anything else...
> > > >
> > > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that.
> > > >
> > > > When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the mantra
> in
> > > > all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you need to
> > > > pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't taught
> in
> > > TM.
> > > > It's as Barry described, a beginning.
> > > >
> > >
> > > So the guys reporting witnessing 24/7 are merely reflecting
> beliefs?
> >
> > Self reporting would always be an issue in the TMO as far as I'm
> > concerned.
> >
> > Also understand none are able to demonstrate the full definition
> of
> > witnessing (sakshin).
>
> OK, what is the "full definition of witnessing"and how do you know
> that none of them are able to demonstrate it given that you don't
> know who these people are?
>
> Nor the full definition of turiyatita ("Cosmic
> > Consciousness").
>
> See above.
>
> There are some elementary, hopeful signs perhaps.
> > Given the fact these people have been meditating for a very long
> > while, it's not that great IMO.
> >
I suggest you look into it yourself. I don't have time to argue and
listen to the whining.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:49 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't > need > > > > > anything else... > > > > > > > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it's probably because YOU were taught that and believed it > and > > > therefore think that all other TMers must think the way you > > > > > > Not at all Shemp. When you see where the road stopped and see the > > methods continue, it's pretty darn obvious. > > > > You know, it's actually possible to like TM and recognize it for > what it is without buying into all the bullshit that the TMO puts > out... > > And, quite frankly, Grasshopper, I don't understand your reference > above to "where the road stopped and see the methods continue"... > Well, that's just it. Ifyou were as advanced as Vaj is, you would know automatically. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:46 PM, sparaig wrote:
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't
need
> > > > anything else...
> > >
> > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that.
> > >
> > > When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the mantra
in
> > > all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you need to
> > > pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't taught
in
> > TM.
> > > It's as Barry described, a beginning.
> > >
> >
> > So the guys reporting witnessing 24/7 are merely reflecting
beliefs?
>
> Self reporting would always be an issue in the TMO as far as I'm
> concerned.
>
> Also understand none are able to demonstrate the full definition
of
> witnessing (sakshin).
OK, what is the "full definition of witnessing"and how do you know
that none of them are able to demonstrate it given that you don't
know who these people are?
Nor the full definition of turiyatita ("Cosmic
> Consciousness").
See above.
There are some elementary, hopeful signs perhaps.
> Given the fact these people have been meditating for a very long
> while, it's not that great IMO.
>
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:49 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't need > > > > anything else... > > > > > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that. > > > > > > > > No, it's probably because YOU were taught that and believed it and > > therefore think that all other TMers must think the way you > > > Not at all Shemp. When you see where the road stopped and see the > methods continue, it's pretty darn obvious. > You know, it's actually possible to like TM and recognize it for what it is without buying into all the bullshit that the TMO puts out... And, quite frankly, Grasshopper, I don't understand your reference above to "where the road stopped and see the methods continue"... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 4/6/06 4:49 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I've never much liked the way he has run his organisation and > > haven't since he went to Tibet in '75 > > Nepal > Right! I always get those two mixed up... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:49 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't need > > > anything else... > > > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that. > > > > No, it's probably because YOU were taught that and believed it and > therefore think that all other TMers must think the way you Not at all Shemp. When you see where the road stopped and see the methods continue, it's pretty darn obvious. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:46 PM, sparaig wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't need
> > > anything else...
> >
> > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that.
> >
> > When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the mantra in
> > all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you need to
> > pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't taught in
> TM.
> > It's as Barry described, a beginning.
> >
>
> So the guys reporting witnessing 24/7 are merely reflecting beliefs?
Self reporting would always be an issue in the TMO as far as I'm
concerned.
Also understand none are able to demonstrate the full definition of
witnessing (sakshin). Nor the full definition of turiyatita ("Cosmic
Consciousness"). There are some elementary, hopeful signs perhaps.
Given the fact these people have been meditating for a very long
while, it's not that great IMO.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
on 4/6/06 4:49 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I've never much liked the way he has run his organisation and > haven't since he went to Tibet in '75 Nepal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:31 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:47 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > It's all almost as silly as naming some 5-year-old peasant > > boy > > > > the > > > > > > Dalai Lama because he can recognize a shoe that the recently- > > > > > > departed Dalai Lama once wore... > > > > > > > > > > You're obviously not familiar with the real story if that's > > what > > > > you > > > > > believe! > > > > > > > > > > The real story is pretty amazing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it was eyeglasses or some such nonsense. > > > > > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies " > > Seven > > > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > > > > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > > > > > He answered the disguised lamas who were visiting in the dialect > > of > > > Lhasa--an area he'd never been to in his brief life. They also > > tried > > > to fool him with a tray of malas. He rejected them all but got > > upset > > > when he recognized his old mala around one of the traders necks. > > etc > > > > > > > > > > > > ...sleight of hand, mental projection... > > > > Big friggin' deal. I'm sure The Amazing Kreskin could have picked > > the right mala, too. > > > > I'll tell you what the REAL miracle was: the fact that this guy got > > the Nobel Peace Prize... > > I thought that miracle should have been attributed to Yassar Arafat... > Good point... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't need > > anything else... > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that. No, it's probably because YOU were taught that and believed it and therefore think that all other TMers must think the way you do. I'm a cynical and skeptical person today and I was 33 years ago when I started TM...and I started it because I wasn't asked to believe in anything or to try or to concentrate in order to do it. And it worked. I've never had an affinity for MMY and -- with the exception of 3 or 4 video and audio tapes that I found particularly fascinating and insightful -- I've been bored out of my mind watching him and hearing him on the literally thousands of videos and audio tapes I've heard. I've never much liked the way he has run his organisation and haven't since he went to Tibet in '75 and taught people en masse OUTSIDE the 7-step program that I had just learnt on TTC. Nevertheless, I am sold out on the TM technique and the TM program. And, by the way, if I feel the way I do because it "was what I was taught to believe" then I wouldn't have said what I did because, as we all know, there are a thousand different additions to TM that have come down from on-high and if I was succeptible to believing what I was taught to believe I would be tauting Schtapatya Veda and all that OTHER crap that we are now told by MMY is essential for enlightenement. Whereas I, on a daily basis on this forum, tell you what I think of all this. > > When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the mantra in > all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you need to > pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't taught in TM. > It's as Barry described, a beginning. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't need > > anything else... > > Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that. > > When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the mantra in > all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you need to > pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't taught in TM. > It's as Barry described, a beginning. > So the guys reporting witnessing 24/7 are merely reflecting beliefs? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:31 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:47 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > > > It's all almost as silly as naming some 5-year-old peasant > boy > > > the > > > > > Dalai Lama because he can recognize a shoe that the recently- > > > > > departed Dalai Lama once wore... > > > > > > > > You're obviously not familiar with the real story if that's > what > > > you > > > > believe! > > > > > > > > The real story is pretty amazing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it was eyeglasses or some such nonsense. > > > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies " > Seven > > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > > > He answered the disguised lamas who were visiting in the dialect > of > > Lhasa--an area he'd never been to in his brief life. They also > tried > > to fool him with a tray of malas. He rejected them all but got > upset > > when he recognized his old mala around one of the traders necks. > etc > > > > > > ...sleight of hand, mental projection... > > Big friggin' deal. I'm sure The Amazing Kreskin could have picked > the right mala, too. > > I'll tell you what the REAL miracle was: the fact that this guy got > the Nobel Peace Prize... I thought that miracle should have been attributed to Yassar Arafat... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:26 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't need > anything else... Well that's probably because you were taught to believe that. When you learn more you find out you need to perfect the mantra in all the bodies, not just the mental one. Eventually you need to pierce the bindu. Unless I missed something, this ain't taught in TM. It's as Barry described, a beginning. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I think it's the age difference. I am only 34. Having seen them on VedaVision for many years on gets to feel an affinity for them. > > Only after I looked into FairFieldLife the dirty linen came out. Could you share a bit of your background, please? Do you live in Fairfield? Did you go to MIU? Parents/family are Fairfield Ru's and that's how you got into it? Enquiring minds want to know... > > shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:19:39 -0000 > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp] > > > I guess I should have been clearer with my question: why do you feel it necessary to use these titles when writing about them? > > > > > - > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:47 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > > > It's all almost as silly as naming some 5-year-old peasant boy > > the > > > > Dalai Lama because he can recognize a shoe that the recently- > > > > departed Dalai Lama once wore... > > > > > > You're obviously not familiar with the real story if that's what > > you > > > believe! > > > > > > The real story is pretty amazing. > > > > > > > > > Okay, it was eyeglasses or some such nonsense. > > > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies " Seven > > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... > > Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. > > He answered the disguised lamas who were visiting in the dialect of > Lhasa--an area he'd never been to in his brief life. They also tried > to fool him with a tray of malas. He rejected them all but got upset > when he recognized his old mala around one of the traders necks. etc ...sleight of hand, mental projection... Big friggin' deal. I'm sure The Amazing Kreskin could have picked the right mala, too. I'll tell you what the REAL miracle was: the fact that this guy got the Nobel Peace Prize... > > Seven Years in Tibet wasn't as good as the book, I was disappointed. > Kundun was a little better. I think Avedon's work is the best for a > western audience. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
I think it's the age difference. I am only 34. Having seen them on VedaVision for many years on gets to feel an affinity for them. Only after I looked into FairFieldLife the dirty linen came out. shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 21:19:39 -0000Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp] I guess I should have been clearer with my question: why do you feel it necessary to use these titles when writing about them? Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 6, 2006, at 5:15 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:47 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: > > > > > It's all almost as silly as naming some 5-year-old peasant boy > the > > > Dalai Lama because he can recognize a shoe that the recently- > > > departed Dalai Lama once wore... > > > > You're obviously not familiar with the real story if that's what > you > > believe! > > > > The real story is pretty amazing. > > > > > Okay, it was eyeglasses or some such nonsense. > > Look my source for any info I have on the DL are the movies " Seven > years in Tibet", "Kundun" and that Snow Lion documentary. > > If I've got it wrong, blame Martin Scorcese and Brad Pitt... Read John Avedon's _In Exile From the Land of Snows_. He answered the disguised lamas who were visiting in the dialect of Lhasa--an area he'd never been to in his brief life. They also tried to fool him with a tray of malas. He rejected them all but got upset when he recognized his old mala around one of the traders necks. etc Seven Years in Tibet wasn't as good as the book, I was disappointed. Kundun was a little better. I think Avedon's work is the best for a western audience. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > [...] > > > To his credit, he invented a simple beginner's > > > technique of meditation > > > > > > > > > > Is that what you think the TM technique is, Barry? > > > > Gosh, I've never looked at it that way, either from an experiential > > standpoint or an intellectual one. > > > > > > > > Well, it IS a beginner's technique. The itneresting thing about it is > that it appears to be an advanced technique also. I think it's the whole shebang, a complete package...don't need anything else... > > The latest EEG research out of MUM shows that after about 4 months, > the EEG changes in the brain tend to stabilize during TM. There are > periods of higher EEG coherence and lower in a given meditation > period, but the average seems to stay pretty constantafter about 4 > months. > > HOWEVER, the changes in EEG *outside* TM appear to continue for > decades as the brain changes to support transcending outside TM > practice. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Rick Archer wrote: > > > > > "Girl" doesn't necessarily mean underage. When the Beatles sang "Girl" > > (Norwegian Wood) they weren't referring to a 14-year-old. > > Esp. when the "girls" I was referring to were all of legal age, as we > well know. Were any of them underage? If they were that's news to me. > Maybe Judy has something she wants to tell us? They're just playing > games or too busy with their own dramas. > Are you calling Judy a "girl"? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [...] > > To his credit, he invented a simple beginner's > > technique of meditation > > > > > Is that what you think the TM technique is, Barry? > > Gosh, I've never looked at it that way, either from an experiential > standpoint or an intellectual one. > > > Well, it IS a beginner's technique. The itneresting thing about it is that it appears to be an advanced technique also. The latest EEG research out of MUM shows that after about 4 months, the EEG changes in the brain tend to stabilize during TM. There are periods of higher EEG coherence and lower in a given meditation period, but the average seems to stay pretty constantafter about 4 months. HOWEVER, the changes in EEG *outside* TM appear to continue for decades as the brain changes to support transcending outside TM practice. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
On Apr 6, 2006, at 4:20 PM, Rick Archer wrote: > > "Girl" doesn't necessarily mean underage. When the Beatles sang "Girl" > (Norwegian Wood) they weren't referring to a 14-year-old. Esp. when the "girls" I was referring to were all of legal age, as we well know. Were any of them underage? If they were that's news to me. Maybe Judy has something she wants to tell us? They're just playing games or too busy with their own dramas. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > An elitist superstition codified > > > > is no less of an elitist superstition. > > > > > > Note that he justifies his own non-Shankaracharya-hood > > > based on the Jyotish chart... > > > > I don't think I get your point, if you had one. > > > > Seems to me that to claim that caste is based > > on one's Jyotish chart (it's not...it's based > > on the caste of the birth parents) is a way to > > claim that one is *eligible* for a position open > > only to Brahmans simply because one can find an > > astrologer willing to say that the person is a > > "Brahman based on his chart." > > > > But all of this is just silly TB stuff. Who on > > earth really *gives a shit* whether Maharishi > > could have become Shankaracharya, other than a > > few TBs who would *like* to believe such fictions > > because the fantasy makes them feel more important? > > > > To me the most fascinating thing is that the people > > who do this -- the ones who try to construct some > > fantasy world in which Maharishi could have or > > should have been Shankaracharya -- are probably > > considered by Maharishi *himself* to be lower than > > Shudras because they're not even Indian. :-) > > > > > It's all almost as silly as naming some 5-year-old peasant boy the > Dalai Lama because he can recognize a shoe that the recently- > departed Dalai Lama once wore... > Confidentially, I tend to agree. OTOH, were I ever to meet with the Dali Lama or MMY, I wouldn't say such things to their face. Besides, I *still* bounce on my bum, so who am I to mock other beliefs? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes [Shemp]
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I refered to him as, "His Majesty". Other Ministers in the Global country should be refered as Excellencies. Exc. Bevan Morris says Maharishi insists on calling them as Excellencies. I guess I should have been clearer with my question: why do you feel it necessary to use these titles when writing about them? > > shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:53:47 - > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > > Jason: > > May I ask you why you are preceeding Nader's name with "His Excellency" and Bevan's with "Exc"? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock > wrote: > > I think His Majesty Dr. Nader is a Master of the Absolute, Relative and he's qualified for the Light-sabre as well. Looks like a Genuine guy. > > > Vaj wrote: > > Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 08:51:52 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes > > > > True. And you have to be established in Brahman and > essentially a pandit of the tradition--in other words, you had to be a master of absolute and relative jnana or no light saber...so he's down on several counts. > > > > > > > - > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The four classes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > To his credit, he invented a simple beginner's > > > technique of meditation > > > > Is that what you think the TM technique is, Barry? > > > > Gosh, I've never looked at it that way, either from an > > experiential standpoint or an intellectual one. > > Isn't it great to realize that, even at your > age, you can learn something new? > Actually, it makes me wonder if you ever practised TM the way it is supposed to be practised. It's the simplicity and effortlessness that makes it work (at least in my experience). The more you try, the less it works. Is that perhaps what happened to you? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
