Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-08-22 Thread Michael Ross via EV
Hi Rick, Thank you for the reply. I have a JLD404 and also a programmable power supply. Let me try to do a better job of posing the questions: What sort of initial charging procedure is best? When running the mower which is probably at 20A continuous, and perhaps with a transient peak at times

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-08-22 Thread Rick Beebe via EV
I would look at the JLD404 from LightObject (http://www.lightobject.com/Programmable-Digital-AH-meter-red-led-Ideal-for-battery-monitoring-P870.aspx). It can monitor battery voltage, amps or count Amp-Hours and has two relays in it which can trigger on high or low values of any of them. Use it to t

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-08-22 Thread Michael Ross via EV
So I have new AGMs in hand from atbatt (the one linked in my May 1 post). Should I just charge them to to 27V together? Or are there other considerations? MI wife tends to mow until the thing is whisper quiet and the voltage is below 24V. I have the impression the PbSO4 cells should be no les

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-05-01 Thread Michael Ross
Roger, Thanks for the answer. The metric is what I made up as a way to compare the items on the website, but it takes into consideration what I have heard on this list. I (despite what folks might think from my constant poking about) actually prefer to follow advice I am given. The Enersys/Gene

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-05-01 Thread Roger Stockton
Michael Ross wrote: > When you say lead is the fuel - how does that work? I wouldn't have > expected it unless it means the grids (my word for whatever they are > called. plates?) are bigger... > > I guess you could make the grids heavier better life in severe conditions. > How do you know the e

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-05-01 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 30 Apr 2014 at 22:04, Michael Ross wrote: > When you say lead is the fuel - how does that work? Figuratively speaking. In an ICEV the more gasoline or Diesel fuel you have, the farther you go. In an EV, the more lead you have, the farther you go. As for which one to buy, I can't make a re

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-05-01 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 1 May 2014 at 13:50, Hoegberg wrote: > I think Hawker is an Enersyscompany now, > I have very good experience of Hawker from the more expensive batterymodels, > forklifts and so on, but this one on that site..I dont know, and the > labeldesign & price .. ?? it looks like it may be fake/copy?

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-05-01 Thread Hoegberg
be worth it for home built movers, they do a good job /John > From: michael.e.r...@gmail.com > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:56:07 -0400 > To: ev@lists.evdl.org > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor? > > EVDL Dave R., > > Comparing on a weight basis $/

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-30 Thread Michael Ross
Thanks, that was instructive. When you say lead is the fuel - how does that work? I wouldn't have expected it unless it means the grids (my word for whatever they are called. plates?) are bigger... I guess you could make the grids heavier better life in severe conditions. How do you know the ext

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-30 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 30 Apr 2014 at 20:36, Michael Ross wrote: > So what should I be paying for? Weight? $/lb value? $/Ah value? I am > hoping at least for directed opinion. Who was it who categorized all falsehoods as lies, damn lines, and battery pitches? I think it may have been Lee Hart. ;-) Especially w

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-30 Thread Michael Ross
So what should I be paying for? Weight? $/lb value? $/Ah value? I am hoping at least for directed opinion. Has anyone ever bought one of these? Are these manufacturers all full of beans because they are not Deka, Gates,Enersys, Hawker, or Concorde? I thought they all come from just a few sou

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-30 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 29 Apr 2014 at 13:03, Lee Hart wrote: > Gels are capable of long life; but only the very best premium brands > will in fact deliver it. Deka Dominators and Gates Cyclons are two that > I know will last. One of the Deka's secrets to long cycle life is that it's a rather severely acid-starve

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-30 Thread Michael Ross
Yes, low sampling rates are a confounding influence. You can get a better idea by sampling the sampling. Don't just take 1 reading take many. For really short duration spikes you might never find it, but is they last say 1/10th of the sampling rate then you might catch them or at least the slop

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-30 Thread Michael K Johnson
Even with peak hold, you're limited by the sampling rate on the DMM. My DMM has a clamp. I set it up to peak hold voltage, and it showed no back EMF from my motor when I turned off power, so I thought it had an internal flyback diode and did not install one externally. Then I used the clamp ammet

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread David Nelson
My B&D CMM1000 24V 19" mower, IIRC, pulls just under 10A when not cutting and something over 20A on initial surge on startup. I only have a digital clamp meter that doesn't react fast enough to know the peak current. Maybe I should look to see if it has a peak hold option. On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
EVDL Dave R., Comparing on a weight basis $/lb (on the theory that weigh goes with Pb content which goes with quality of design and manufacture and looking at $/ Ah: *#113lb* $3.46/lb @ $45 17.2 Ah *$2.62/Ah* http://www.atbatt.com/genesis-np18-12-12v-172ah-sealed-lead-acid-battery-with-nb-te

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
18Ah BP17-12 On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Lee Hart wrote: > Michael Ross wrote: > >> my power supply allows me to tell it a peak current and peak voltage... >> >> It sounds like I can safely set the voltage to 28.8V and 4 amps, and >> not be concerned if I forget for a few days. Do I have

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Lee Hart
Michael Ross wrote: Any idea if a 24V 1200W mower is a "high" current application? I am not sure if I know what "high" and "low" mean in this context. It's considered a "high" current application. You will probably size your batteries so they get discharged in under an hour. Is this where

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Lee Hart
Michael Ross wrote: my power supply allows me to tell it a peak current and peak voltage... It sounds like I can safely set the voltage to 28.8V and 4 amps, and not be concerned if I forget for a few days. Do I have that right? What is the amphour capacity of your batteries? 28.2v and 4a is OK

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
Any idea if a 24V 1200W mower is a "high" current application? I am not sure if I know what "high" and "low" mean in this context. Is this where Li cells shine? Long life and better peak current capability? (I am incapable of asking rhetorical questions about this stuff- I simply don't know - I

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Lee Hart
Michael Ross wrote: Are there non-rape and pillage suppliers for the higher quality gels and AGM? Well, I'm cheap. I generally buy my batteries as far away from retail as I can get. :-) Sometimes it's a negotiated price for a quantity purchase. Battery dealers have a *large* margin, and so

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Lee Hart
EVDL Administrator wrote: simple cycle-dropping charge controller ... On further thought, somthing occurs to me - I don't think this circuit will work properly with a filtered DC input (as from a bench supply). Maybe a real EE (I'm just a hacker) will weigh in. Yeah, that's an AC-only circuit

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
Back to charging, and trying to take good care of the celles - in regard to the 24V pack on my newish mower...my power supply allows me to tell it a peak current and peak voltage. It will hold the peak voltage and current until it reaches the voltage setpoint, then the current drops - to mere mill

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
Thank you all so much, please don't stop commenting. Are there non-rape and pillage suppliers for the higher quality gels and AGM? I see higher cycle counts for gels declared in some places...is that true? Or is there more to the story - like really hard to charge and discharge gels so they actu

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 29 Apr 2014 at 12:06, Lee Hart wrote: > I have Enersys, Hawker, and Concorde AGMs that are now over 10 years old > and still delivering at least half of their original capacity. I also have > Gates, and Deka gels just as old that are still usable. I just recently retired the last of a batch of

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Lee Hart
Michael Ross wrote: I see AGM BP17-12 at amazon prime for $42. Hard to think of putting in Li for that cost. Presumably, all AGM are not created equal - how does one tell good from bad? Price, and weight are the best indicator. The heavier the battery, the more lead in it. The more lead, the

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 29 Apr 2014 at 12:48, EVDL Administrator wrote: > simple cycle-dropping charge controller ... On further thought, somthing occurs to me - I don't think this circuit will work properly with a filtered DC input (as from a bench supply). Maybe a real EE (I'm just a hacker) will weigh in. Davi

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Lee Hart
Michael Ross wrote: I have an Amrel programmable power supply 4A, 60V. Very handy for Li-ion. I am a lead acid dunce. Can I imitate a smart charger with the Amrel power supply? Yes, if you supply the "smarts" (i.e. manually control it). Are there different protocols for conventional, AGM and

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 29 Apr 2014 at 10:53, Michael Ross wrote: > I am a lead acid dunce. Can I imitate a smart charger with the Amrel > power supply? > > Are there different protocols for conventional, AGM and Gel? I assume so. Here is a good introduction to lead battery charging: http://www.evdl.org/pages/ha

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
I see AGM BP17-12 at amazon prime for $42. Hard to think of putting in Li for that cost. Presumably, all AGM are not created equal - how does one tell good from bad? On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote: > Speed is comparable, then. I had a quick look on ebay - dual 18V set

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Martin WINLOW
Speed is comparable, then. I had a quick look on ebay - dual 18V set ups (might even use the same battery packs as your existing cordless drill) but one DeWalt (300 model) is 36V using standard 36V pack with a 900W motor - is this enough? I'd be easy enough to mount and just re position the sw

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
Answers here: http://bit.ly/1tZLfMD On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Martin WINLOW wrote: > *What sort of RPM does a mower use? *SNIP Up to 3600RPM for ICE depending on load. plug in electric probably the same. Part of what you care about is tip speed. If the blade is short it need more rp

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Michael Ross
I have an Amrel programmable power supply 4A, 60V. Very handy for Li-ion. I am a lead acid dunce. Can I imitate a smart charger with the Amrel power supply? Are there different protocols for conventional, AGM and Gel? I assume so. On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Lee Hart wrote: > Craigsl

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Martin WINLOW
What sort of RPM does a mower use? The corded electric Mountfield we use does not appear to have a gearbox. So, would a 36/48V cordless circular saw be a possible starting point (if there is such a beast!)? It'd certainly make battery swapping very easy! MW On 28 Apr 2014, at 17:58, Michael

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread Lee Hart
Craigslist brought me a B&D CMM1200 which seems to be quite a hoss at 1200W. 24V. Bagger/mulcher, 1.5A charger. EVDL Administrator wrote: Good find! Note that 1200 watts is>peak< - ask those little gel batteries to deliver 50 amps for more than a few seconds and see how far they get you! Unle

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-29 Thread EVDL Administrator
On 28 Apr 2014 at 19:17, Michael Ross wrote: > Craigslist brought me a B&D CMM1200 which seems to be quite a hoss at > 1200W. 24V. Bagger/mulcher, 1.5A charger. Good find! Note that 1200 watts is >peak< - ask those little gel batteries to deliver 50 amps for more than a few seconds and se

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Mark Hastings
I have a cordless B&D that i changed out to use 24v 20ah thundersky batts a few seasons ago and shared the battery for a while on my recumbent for assist. It certainly won't do my new 2+ acres but was cheap with dead batteries off of craigslist and the lighter batteries made it tolerable to push i

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread David Nelson
KTA drop ships them from another supplier in the US. I've always had good luck with KTA so that is why I ordered from them. It sounded like they periodically get orders in and ship from that. I don't remember how long it took mine to show up but it was less than 3 weeks. They are a really nice size

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Michael Ross
Thanks, David, that sounds like a good fit. Sounds like the 40AH I was looking at are way overkill. They ship in 2 to 3 weeks - sounds like they are not stocking, just brokering for a Chinese manufacturer. This is all speculation, because I may like the Pb cells in it just fine. I wonder how mu

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread David Nelson
I picked up a B&D 24V push mower for free. It needed batteries and a charger. I removed the charging circuit & batteries and replaced the batteries with two sets of GBS 20Ah (http://www.kta-ev.com/Battery_4_GBS_3_2V_20AH_cells_p/bat-gbs-lfmp20ahx4.htm) which are an almost exact size replacement for

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Michael Ross
Hi thank you all for the advice, and so fast. I took the advice to work with a cordless mower rather than re-purpose an ICE mower. Craigslist brought me a B&D CMM1200 which seems to be quite a hoss at 1200W. 24V. Bagger/mulcher, 1.5A charger. The only thing I could see amiss was a missing

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Peter Eckhoff
>>http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/24V-40AH-LiFePO4-Battery-Pack-Electric-Bicycle-electric-Scooter-bicycle-E-Bike-Lithium-Ion-Long-life/328001_771068114.html << Thanks Mike for the recommendation. My blade on my B&D MM675 measures 17.5" even though the specs say 18" cutting path. Most o

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Peter Eckhoff
Thanks Mike for the recommendation. My blade on my B&D MM675 measures 17.5" even though the specs say 18" cutting path. Most of the lower voltage electrics have a 14" blade. The smaller mower means more passes. Something to think about. On 4/28/2014 3:45 PM, Michael Ross wrote: I have ano

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread nicklogan
The batteries in the Homelite battery mower I've been using for four years gave out this spring so I went for the 56V EGO mower at Home Despot this weekend since I had a $100 gift card already (still too pricey but I have too many projects going already and couldn't bring myself to buy an ICE mower

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Dennis Miles
about the plastic disk shearing off. replace it with a sheet metal disk to fit the motor shaft then place a disk of leather between the new drive disk and the blade hub, then when you hit a rock the blade slips and no damage is done. *Dennis Lee Miles * *Director **E.V.T.I. Inc.* *E-Mail:* *e

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Cor van de Water
nal Message- From: ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Michael Ross Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 12:46 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor? I have another battery from these people that seems just fi

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Michael Ross
I have another battery from these people that seems just fine (after taking it apart to see inside) http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/24V-40AH-LiFePO4-Battery-Pack-Electric-Bicycle-electric-Scooter-bicycle-E-Bike-Lithium-Ion-Long-life/328001_771068114.html This one is 24V 40Ah LFP and weigh

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Peter Eckhoff
Hello Mike, I'll second what Cal is saying below. To get the nut off, you have to place a wrench on the nut and "impact" it until the nut loosens. I would **not** use a compressed air impactor tool. I use my fist. Be careful because everything is free wheeling. If you leave your knuckles

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Chris Tromley
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 2:01 PM, Lee Hart wrote: > On the blade hitting rocks: Copy the same setup they use on the ICE. They > always have some kind of clutch setup so if the blade hits something, it > can instantly stop while the clutch slips. Usually, the clutch is nothing > but a big bolt that

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Lee Hart
Michael Ross wrote: I have an old simple ICE push mower, that might be worth converting. I've done some conversions, both for myself and for friends. A standard ICE push mower, or corded electric mower is easy to convert; but likely to be less than satisfactory to use. The weight of the batt

Re: [EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Cal Frye
I'm on my second Black and Decker push mower, corded type. I have a small lawn, so avoiding running over the cord is not a major problem. I won't advise on motor or batteries, but I can say B&D has a plastic shim in the stack of washers holding the blade to the motor shaft. Said shim has raised edg

[EVDL] Recommendations for push mower motor?

2014-04-28 Thread Michael Ross
I have an old simple ICE push mower, that might be worth converting. Can anyone recommend the sort of motor I should look for? Re-purposing a motor would be nice. I would use LFP batteries. What about the shock of the blade hitting something nearly immobile? That is a lot of shock that small en