date:20021120

- Original Message -
From: ed612313 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World

First, sorry about the 2x-post. I sent it on Sunday before Sean's came
through and it just appeared today.

 so you think eddie fowlkes deserves to be mentioned along with the other
 three?

In terms of '80s Detroit Techno productions, yeah, I think his name deserves
to be up there. There are lots of people who were DJing then, or had
contributions on a few records that deserve more recognition as well, but
Eddie Fowlkes was making and releasing records on par with the other 3 and
is usually not mentioned beside them. Obviously, you have people that were
making house at this time as well, but this is about the contribution of
techno. I think' EFF's contribution is as early and as valuable as the other
three, and earlier than the earliest UR, etc, that followed soon thereafter.
AFAIK, 'Goodbye Kiss' predates anything from Derrick May or Kevin
Saunderson, as well.

I'm really looking forward to Dan's EFF project, b/c these are the best I'm
finding at the moment:

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Eddie_flashin_Fowlkes
http://paper.state51.co.uk/people/eddiefowlkes.html

Also, he remixed The Pet Shop Boys before anyone else from Detroit. :)

I think it's all debatable. I'm just saying I'm happy to see that this is
one of the few times his place in techno history is included.

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

Re: (313) b-boys b-girls @ DEMF #2 ....

2002-11-20 Thread James Bucknell

don't know about the detroit breakers, i didn't see any at demf  #2.  but at
new york house nights--like louie vega's 'dance ritual' night at
vinyl--there were quite a large group of people breaking. they were really
good.
it was a surprise to see people breaking to a masters at work tribal flute
cut and not the jonzun crew.
james

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:06:10 -0600
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) b-boys  b-girls @ DEMF #2 

 I seem to remember that at practically ever stage I was at there were at
 least two circles going with a fair number of people breaking it down. Some
 were really battling and some were just letting loose and having fun. I'm
 curious as to how many active crews are there in the Detroit area and do
 they attend many of the techno events. Any weblinks?

 MEK

Re: (313) track identification please

2002-11-20 Thread techno

thanks, I really appreciate it.
the artist name and label is most satisfactory.

on 11/19/02 6:56 PM, Matthew MacQueen at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 It's Elektric Dance by Jungle crew feat. Jungle Jorge (on Elektro Sounds
 label).  If you want the year I can dig it up at home, I think late 80s -- and
 I'm almost sure this was a Chicago label.
 
 peace
 
 -Original Message-
 From: techno [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 6:20 PM
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) track identification please
 
 
 http://pages.prodigy.net/stevepwats/trackid.ram
 
 from an old tape 1990-1991.
 I'm guessing this one's from the UK.

(313) Detroit Contemporary - my $.02 Cdn

2002-11-20 Thread dj revolver

To everyone reading this - the show on November 23 will be a special night 
for all of the performers I'm sure and here's why:


Bill Van Loo is getting good, really really good. When he's excited to play 
new original material you don't want to miss Michigan's biggest grin as well 
as fine music, not to mention wild experimental live video.


The duo of Kataconda  Wraith have such a nice, dark and dirty rhythmic 
minimal techno sound you'll swear these guys have been studying their 
techniques in dark clubs in Germany. Be sure to ask them about their solid 
new 1st vinyl EP release on Acid Sonic Research. This is also their 1st show 
at Detroit Contemporary.


Steve Roy - well, I don't like to talk much about my own music but I have 
some pretty nifty, dirty dubby original beats to display for those who 
attend. I'm extremely excited to play at D.C. for the 1st time.


Again, check out www.acidsonicresearch.com for sound samples from each 
artist. And like Tim said before, come out and introduce yourself - it'd be 
great to meet some more list members.


Best to all.
Steve








From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: (313) Detroit Contemporary this Saturday Nov 23
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 17:25:44 -0800 (PST)

The internet flyer has been updated and sound bites
have been added.  check it:

http://www.acidsonicresearch.com

best,

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com



_
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Re: (313) Listmember's sites

2002-11-20 Thread MM

we used to do web broadcasting 2 times a week...with alot of live mp3's
from our parties (hopefully they will be up soon)..we are in the process
of a facelift but here is our site with loads of info about parties we
have done in the past  future, but i don't think it has been updated
for a bithave a look

 www.renegaderhythms.com

michael



diana potts wrote:

  Most of the ppl on here are technies (me not
 included) so there's, IMHO, some really good
 programming and creative work going on amongst
 members.(I do check out ppl's sites in their sig)

  Anyhow, if you've skipped over this listmember's
 site, might I suggest you check it out during an
 'attention span shortage' moment at work. From the
 nose down he's a dead ringer for Matthew Hawtin
 (there's your 313).

 http://www.11235813.com/

 any others?

 d

 __
 Do you Yahoo!?
 U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
 http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

Re: (313) b-boys b-girls @ DEMF #2 ....

2002-11-20 Thread Jason Hogans

There's this one crew, I feel crummy for forgetting their name :-{ I think
they might still be together,  I remember being amazed by this bite-sized
b-boy named U-Turn. I've seen them @ a couple of events before. Me  my
Capoeira (Brazilian martial art that had an influence on breaking) pals have
jumped in the circle with 'em, including DEMF. Windmill if  U love techno
;-} This just in... I Googled a bit. Here's a couple-o-links.

Asian action (gosh that sounds like porn):
http://members.aol.com/khaoscru/index.html
http://www.metrotimes.com/19/16/Features/artDragon.html
http://www.sheqkai.homestead.com/dragon.html
There's a little blurb about that wee U-Turn chap in there.

AND, some capoeira links...

A really nice mpeg clip!:
http://dns.advnet.net/allan/escovinha/L-Roda04.mpg

More clips (on bottom half of page):
http://members.aol.com/bill510/download.html

Detroit area classes:
http://starflowerenterprises.com/angola/detroit.html

Peace.

JPH.
(the P is for popping  locking)

From: James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:25:52 -0500
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) b-boys  b-girls @ DEMF #2 


don't know about the detroit breakers, i didn't see any at demf  #2.  but at
new york house nights--like louie vega's 'dance ritual' night at
vinyl--there were quite a large group of people breaking. they were really
good.
it was a surprise to see people breaking to a masters at work tribal flute
cut and not the jonzun crew.
james

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:06:10 -0600
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) b-boys  b-girls @ DEMF #2 
 
 I seem to remember that at practically ever stage I was at there were at
 least two circles going with a fair number of people breaking it down. Some
 were really battling and some were just letting loose and having fun. I'm
 curious as to how many active crews are there in the Detroit area and do
 they attend many of the techno events. Any weblinks?
 
 MEK

Re: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World

2002-11-20 Thread marc christensen


Three categories of people ought to be honored by the exhibit:

1) the whole damn scene and taste culture that collectively led to 
(and helped to develop) what was then simply Detroit House -- that 
fine music we all know as Detroit techno.  Without audiences deciding 
what was fresh, and not so fresh, the cycle of innovation would not 
have worked as it did.  Without a scene, the music wouldn't have 
happened -- none of these cats were bedroom virtuosos which marks a 
difference between dance music and other genres.


2) the whole group of people who were actively making music 
significantly in and around this scene.  Which means that not only 
should Fowlkes be given due, but so too should Mills  Mojo  a whole 
bunch of other folks.   Including Chicago artists, since Detroit and 
Chicago ended up being musical siblings to a great degree.  Just as 
Detroit House was not merely Detroit simply stealing the Chicago 
sound (as a few books on music have foolishly mentioned and argued), 
so too the Chicago sound wouldn't have been the same without some 
Detroit influence.  So 'nuff said -- it's bigger than the Belleville 
Three.


3) The Belleville Three.  They have been techno's most visible and 
loyal stalwarts, through thick and thin.  Every ounce of credit and 
respect are also due to them.  Not *all* the credit for techno, as 
points 1) and 2) have hopefully made clear.  But due and generous 
credit, nevertheless.  Fowlkes doesn't rank here.  Mills?  As great 
as his achievements are, this category has at least as much to do 
with the *identification* of celebrity with Detroit Techno.  And, as 
Sterling Silver once tried to call me out on, neither America nor 
Europe really identifies Mills with his history, or Detroit per se. 
Atkins, May and Saunderson are the celebrities of techno's founding 
moment.  No matter what the achievements of any other performers, 
from then until now, these three play a unique role *as* celebrities, 
even as their music veers wildly from Saunderson's heavy 
Gospel-inflected work to Atkins' RB projects.  They are techno not 
for what they make, but for who they are and what they *made*.


But they didn't make it all alone, in anyone's basement.  They made 
it in the context of a city, and a specific scene, at a particular 
cultural moment.  All of which deserves to be remembered, and 
explained.  I do hope they do a good job of it.


-marc




At 12:33 PM -0800 11/20/02, ed612313 wrote:

so you think eddie fowlkes deserves to be mentioned along with the other
three?
if he does, then so do about another 10 artist!
story of how Juan Atkins, Eddie Fowlkes, Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson,
four young men from metro Detroit, created and developed this electronic
style of dance.
what has eddie done to get this sort of mention? An originator?
stick to 3
peace
ed
- Original Message -
From: Tristan Watkins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 11:41 AM
Subject: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World



 Optic Studios just sent this out, and I figured this would be something
 essential to post here. Seems like this is something that's been talked
 about for a long time and has finally happened. Great to see Eddie Fowlkes
 name in the same breath as the other 3. Nice that if there's a DEMF this
 year, this exhibit will still be on then.

 BTW - I finally got the 3MB feat. Eddie Flashin' Fowlkes album on Tresor,
 mostly just for Illuminism. I'd only heard the Sun Electric edit of this
 track on the Tresor 2 comp until now, but damn the full version is even
 better!

 Tristan



 LINK  http://www.detroithistorical.org/exhibits/index.asp?MID=368

 Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World
 January 2003 - June 2004
 Detroit Historical Museum's Stark Hall

 History is often thought of as a series of events that occurred a very

long

 time ago. The truth is, history is also what happened yesterday, five

  minutes ago, and in fact, today's events will be tomorrow's history. With

 this in mind the Detroit Historical Museum has partnered with the
 originators of Techno to share the story of their music. This
 groundbreaking exhibit will trace Techno's early beginning from its

Detroit

 roots to its emergence as a global sensation.
 An ambitious new exhibit - the world's first on the subject -- that
 celebrates a style of music born in Detroit that has kept the world

dancing

 for more than 20 years.

 Learn the straight story of how Juan Atkins, Eddie Fowlkes, Derrick May

and

 Kevin Saunderson, four young men from metro Detroit, created and developed
 this electronic style of dance music and trace its early beginnings from

  local Detroit clubs to its emergence as a global sensation.

Re: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World (correction)

2002-11-20 Thread marc christensen

Correction: in my last message, I meant to say Scott Sterling not 
Sterling Silver


heh.  call it a Freudian slip.

-m

Re: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World

- Original Message -
From: marc christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World

 2) the whole group of people who were actively making music
 significantly in and around this scene.  Which means that not only
 should Fowlkes be given due, but so too should Mills  Mojo  a whole
 bunch of other folks.   Including Chicago artists, since Detroit and
 Chicago ended up being musical siblings to a great degree.  Just as
 Detroit House was not merely Detroit simply stealing the Chicago
 sound (as a few books on music have foolishly mentioned and argued),
 so too the Chicago sound wouldn't have been the same without some
 Detroit influence.  So 'nuff said -- it's bigger than the Belleville
 Three.

To clarify, it sounds as though all three of these groups are being justly
represented. The thing that impressed me was this quote and the accompanying
picture with all four men in front of the museum:

Learn the straight story of how Juan Atkins, Eddie Fowlkes, Derrick May and
Kevin Saunderson, four young men from metro Detroit, created and developed
this electronic style of dance music and trace its early beginnings from
local Detroit clubs to its emergence as a global sensation.

All of this can be found here:
http://www.detroithistorical.org/exhibits/index.asp?MID=368

I feel I should clarify one thing: In my mind (as an outsider who was too
young to be there for the '80s portion anyway), too much spotlight has been
given to the Belleville Three, and this is just my opinion. I already made
my arguments for why I think EFF should be mentioned in the same breath as
them, and I absolutely agree that any history has to stretch beyond them, to
Germany, Chicago and New York (and to pre-house roots), to the influential
DJs in Detroit like Ken Collier, Alton Miller, The Wizard, Alan Oldham, Mojo
and others. What I was pleased with, is that we are accustomed to seeing the
Belleville Three as figureheads for Detroit Techno, and I think that's
almost a reasoable short-hand if a short-hand needs to exist (and clearly it
does). You can point to the people who made the first records as a creative
nexus for the sound. BUT, I think if you're going to do that, you need to
include EFF, b/c I think the discog tells that history accurately. I mean,
it's silly to debate this stuff too fiercely. I could ask why A Number of
Names isn't sitting beside them in front of the museum. The point for me is
that *I think* EFF has had the same sort of definitive role as the other
three (albeit without a label as Dan Sicko mentioned the other day). I can
only assume this is the reason the museum saw fit to include him in the same
breath and picture.

And before anyone yells at me, I'm only trying to clarify an off-the-cuff
comment founded in EFF's under-representation. I don't pretend to be a
historian, but I'm sure most can agree he's overlooked far too often, even
if you don't agree with all I'm saying above.

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

RE: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World

Nicely put Marc. The other thing to remember is that for people outside of
the US (it does say gift to the world), the first real taste that many UK
people had was Techno : The New Dance Sound Of Detroit (1988 - Ten
Records - http://www.discogs.com/release/57919), on which EFF and Baxter
also appeared.

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Tristan Watkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 07:10
 To: 313; marc christensen
 Subject: Re: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World


 - Original Message -
 From: marc christensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 313 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:56 AM
 Subject: Re: (313) Fw: Techno: Detroit's Gift to the World


  2) the whole group of people who were actively making music
  significantly in and around this scene.  Which means that not only
  should Fowlkes be given due, but so too should Mills  Mojo  a whole
  bunch of other folks.   Including Chicago artists, since Detroit and
  Chicago ended up being musical siblings to a great degree.  Just as
  Detroit House was not merely Detroit simply stealing the Chicago
  sound (as a few books on music have foolishly mentioned and argued),
  so too the Chicago sound wouldn't have been the same without some
  Detroit influence.  So 'nuff said -- it's bigger than the Belleville
  Three.

 To clarify, it sounds as though all three of these groups are being justly
 represented. The thing that impressed me was this quote and the
 accompanying
 picture with all four men in front of the museum:

 Learn the straight story of how Juan Atkins, Eddie Fowlkes,
 Derrick May and
 Kevin Saunderson, four young men from metro Detroit, created and developed
 this electronic style of dance music and trace its early beginnings from
 local Detroit clubs to its emergence as a global sensation.

 All of this can be found here:
 http://www.detroithistorical.org/exhibits/index.asp?MID=368

 I feel I should clarify one thing: In my mind (as an outsider who was too
 young to be there for the '80s portion anyway), too much
 spotlight has been
 given to the Belleville Three, and this is just my opinion. I already made
 my arguments for why I think EFF should be mentioned in the same breath as
 them, and I absolutely agree that any history has to stretch
 beyond them, to
 Germany, Chicago and New York (and to pre-house roots), to the influential
 DJs in Detroit like Ken Collier, Alton Miller, The Wizard, Alan
 Oldham, Mojo
 and others. What I was pleased with, is that we are accustomed to
 seeing the
 Belleville Three as figureheads for Detroit Techno, and I think that's
 almost a reasoable short-hand if a short-hand needs to exist (and
 clearly it
 does). You can point to the people who made the first records as
 a creative
 nexus for the sound. BUT, I think if you're going to do that, you need to
 include EFF, b/c I think the discog tells that history accurately. I mean,
 it's silly to debate this stuff too fiercely. I could ask why A Number of
 Names isn't sitting beside them in front of the museum. The point
 for me is
 that *I think* EFF has had the same sort of definitive role as the other
 three (albeit without a label as Dan Sicko mentioned the other day). I can
 only assume this is the reason the museum saw fit to include him
 in the same
 breath and picture.

 And before anyone yells at me, I'm only trying to clarify an off-the-cuff
 comment founded in EFF's under-representation. I don't pretend to be a
 historian, but I'm sure most can agree he's overlooked far too often, even
 if you don't agree with all I'm saying above.

 Tristan
 =
 Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
 Music: http://www.mp313.com
 Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
 a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

RE: (313) Ron Trent

2002-11-20 Thread Sean Creen

Hi Matt,
it pretty typical Ron Trent fare. In the Spirit itself is low-paced, with
nice, deep string work and a female vocal which repeats the title through
the track. its not his best work by any means, but nice all the same...

Sean.

-Original Message-
From: Matthew MacQueen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 November 2002 19:32
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] org [The Music Institute] (E-mail)
Subject: (313) Ron Trent


can anyone tell me about the Ron Trent In the Spirit 3-tracker on
Peacefrog ?  How does it sound?

cheers,
Matt MacQueen

(313) fairmount squad

2002-11-20 Thread marsel



just digged up this record again..

it's a release from 1998, by Fairmount Squad on the label Goal Line Records
it was cut at NSC

any idea, how, what, why?
more release ?

still wanting to know more..

?


np. duplex - aerosoul

.. . :: http://nomorewords.net

Re: (313) fairmount squad

2002-11-20 Thread Rc

i'm fairly sure shake contributed somehow...either co-produced or mixed
or sumthin.

I used to have copynot that special if I recall - just the one decent
track imo

it was the only release on the label that I ever saw
rc
on 20/11/02 9:22 PM, marsel at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 just digged up this record again..
 
 it's a release from 1998, by Fairmount Squad on the label Goal Line Records
 it was cut at NSC
 
 any idea, how, what, why?
 more release ?
 
 still wanting to know more..
 
 ?
 
 
 np. duplex - aerosoul
 
 ... . :: http://nomorewords.net

(313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread seth redmond


OK, this is a little off-topic but...

I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher 
torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people who've 
used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or Technics (probably 
1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?


ta

-s


_
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

RE: (313) fairmount squad

Techno Hustlers EP?

What exactly do you want to know?

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: marsel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 10:22
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) fairmount squad



 just digged up this record again..

 it's a release from 1998, by Fairmount Squad on the label Goal
 Line Records
 it was cut at NSC

 any idea, how, what, why?
 more release ?

 still wanting to know more..

 ?


 np. duplex - aerosoul

 .. . :: http://nomorewords.net

RE: (313) fairmount squad

2002-11-20 Thread marsel



well, like i said
who is/are the artists?
were there any more releases by this artist?
were there any other releases on this label

things like that
:)


At 20-11-2002 + 10:39, you wrote:

Techno Hustlers EP?

What exactly do you want to know?

Dscaper
--

 -Original Message-
 From: marsel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 10:22
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) fairmount squad



 just digged up this record again..

 it's a release from 1998, by Fairmount Squad on the label Goal
 Line Records
 it was cut at NSC

 any idea, how, what, why?
 more release ?

 still wanting to know more..

 ?



.. . :: http://nomorewords.net

RE: (313) b-boys b-girls @ DEMF #2 ....


This got posted around work a wekke or two back - the last guy is pretty
impressive

homepage.ntlworld.com/daniel.deptford/kolla2001.wmv


:-Original Message-
:From: Jason Hogans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:37 AM
:To: 313 list
:Subject: Re: (313) b-boys  b-girls @ DEMF #2 
:
:There's this one crew, I feel crummy for forgetting their name :-{ I
think
:they might still be together,  I remember being amazed by this
bite-sized
:b-boy named U-Turn. I've seen them @ a couple of events before. Me  my
:Capoeira (Brazilian martial art that had an influence on breaking) pals
:have
:jumped in the circle with 'em, including DEMF. Windmill if  U love
techno
:;-} This just in... I Googled a bit. Here's a couple-o-links.
:
:Asian action (gosh that sounds like porn):
:http://members.aol.com/khaoscru/index.html
:http://www.metrotimes.com/19/16/Features/artDragon.html
:http://www.sheqkai.homestead.com/dragon.html
:There's a little blurb about that wee U-Turn chap in there.
:
:AND, some capoeira links...
:
:A really nice mpeg clip!:
:http://dns.advnet.net/allan/escovinha/L-Roda04.mpg
:
:More clips (on bottom half of page):
:http://members.aol.com/bill510/download.html
:
:Detroit area classes:
:http://starflowerenterprises.com/angola/detroit.html
:
:Peace.
:
:JPH.
:(the P is for popping  locking)
:
:From: James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:25:52 -0500
:To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
:Subject: Re: (313) b-boys  b-girls @ DEMF #2 
:
:
:don't know about the detroit breakers, i didn't see any at demf  #2.
but
:at
:new york house nights--like louie vega's 'dance ritual' night at
:vinyl--there were quite a large group of people breaking. they were
really
:good.
:it was a surprise to see people breaking to a masters at work tribal
flute
:cut and not the jonzun crew.
:james
:
: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 16:06:10 -0600
: To: 313@hyperreal.org
: Subject: (313) b-boys  b-girls @ DEMF #2 
:
: I seem to remember that at practically ever stage I was at there were
at
: least two circles going with a fair number of people breaking it
down.
:Some
: were really battling and some were just letting loose and having fun.
I'm
: curious as to how many active crews are there in the Detroit area and
do
: they attend many of the techno events. Any weblinks?
:
: MEK
:
:
:
:
:

RE: (313) re: best decks


The one thing that always put me off the vestax was the fact that I didnt
want to become reliant on the features it has which arent available on
technics [ I find it bad enough playing out in places that dont have hamster
switch on their mixer ]. Techn ics have always been built like a brick
sh!thouse and IMO vestax deck build quality has always been pretty shady -
but to their credit the new ones do actually feel damn solid and from what
Ive heard they do kick technics ass somewhat. From the brief experience Ive
had using them they seem to suffer way less with skipping/jumping than
technics which may be something to do with the crazy straight tonearm they
use.

I think nowadays the price is fairly comparably between 12's and 2000's (I
think when the vestax first arrived they were like 500GBP a deck or
something daft). Many people argue that its best to have technics because
theyre the club standard but Im seeing the vestax  popping up in more and
more clubs nowadays so I dont know if thats still valid.

jus' my tuppence worth ! 

peace,
Marc

 -Original Message-
 From: seth redmond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 10:32
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) re: best decks
 
 
 OK, this is a little off-topic but...
 
 I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher 
 torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the 
 people who've 
 used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or 
 Technics (probably 
 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?
 
 ta
 
 -s
 
 
 _
 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
 
 

--
This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the 
designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of 
this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This 
communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an 
offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an 
official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman 
Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free.  
Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate 
and it should not be relied upon as such.  All information is subject to change 
without notice.

Re: (313) books on techno

2002-11-20 Thread Mike Brown

Ron wrote:
 can anybody compile a list of book somebody
 has to have

http://www.disquiet.com/page-spotter.html

This bibliography, compiled by Marc Weidenbaum, tries to focus on ambient
music, but mentions quite a few titles you'd probably be interested in
seeking.

   - Mike

  mike j. brown   |  xml/xslt: http://skew.org/xml/
  denver/boulder, colorado, usa   |  personal: http://hyperreal.org/~mike/

RE: (313) fairmount squad

Ahhh... it was the any idea, how, what, why? bit that confusled me.

I was going to answer:
How : With electronic devices
What : It's a 12 record
Why : Because they could

But that would be taking it too far. ;)

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: marsel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 10:38
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) fairmount squad



 well, like i said
 who is/are the artists?
 were there any more releases by this artist?
 were there any other releases on this label

 things like that
 :)


 At 20-11-2002 + 10:39, you wrote:
 Techno Hustlers EP?
 
 What exactly do you want to know?
 
 Dscaper
 --
 
   -Original Message-
   From: marsel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: 20 November 2002 10:22
   To: 313@hyperreal.org
   Subject: (313) fairmount squad
  
  
  
   just digged up this record again..
  
   it's a release from 1998, by Fairmount Squad on the label Goal
   Line Records
   it was cut at NSC
  
   any idea, how, what, why?
   more release ?
  
   still wanting to know more..
  
   ?


 .. . :: http://nomorewords.net

Re: (313) fairmount squad

2002-11-20 Thread Rc

fresh and crisp sarcasm..and so early in the morning in the northern
hemisphere!

pretty damn sure shake was involved.didn't he contribute something on
the list a couple of days ago..maybe he can verify


on 20/11/02 9:48 PM, Craig Harrison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ahhh... it was the any idea, how, what, why? bit that confusled me.
 
 I was going to answer:
 How : With electronic devices
 What : It's a 12 record
 Why : Because they could
 
 But that would be taking it too far. ;)
 
 Dscaper
 --
 Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
 A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
 of a man who knows.
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: marsel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 10:38
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) fairmount squad
 
 
 
 well, like i said
 who is/are the artists?
 were there any more releases by this artist?
 were there any other releases on this label
 
 things like that
 :)
 
 
 At 20-11-2002 + 10:39, you wrote:
 Techno Hustlers EP?
 
 What exactly do you want to know?
 
 Dscaper
 --
 
 -Original Message-
 From: marsel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 10:22
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) fairmount squad
 
 
 
 just digged up this record again..
 
 it's a release from 1998, by Fairmount Squad on the label Goal
 Line Records
 it was cut at NSC
 
 any idea, how, what, why?
 more release ?
 
 still wanting to know more..
 
 ?
 
 
 .. . :: http://nomorewords.net

RE: (313) re: best decks


I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix things
at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also very
useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may not
be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the tonearm
being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the theory
anyway)
Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge insomuch
as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
you can hear the tapping.  

:-Original Message-
:From: Langsman, Marc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:41 AM
:To: 'seth redmond'; 313@hyperreal.org
:Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
:
:
:The one thing that always put me off the vestax was the fact that I
didnt
:want to become reliant on the features it has which arent available on
:technics [ I find it bad enough playing out in places that dont have
:hamster
:switch on their mixer ]. Techn ics have always been built like a brick
:sh!thouse and IMO vestax deck build quality has always been pretty
shady -
:but to their credit the new ones do actually feel damn solid and from
what
:Ive heard they do kick technics ass somewhat. From the brief experience
Ive
:had using them they seem to suffer way less with skipping/jumping than
:technics which may be something to do with the crazy straight tonearm
they
:use.
:
:I think nowadays the price is fairly comparably between 12's and 2000's
(I
:think when the vestax first arrived they were like 500GBP a deck or
:something daft). Many people argue that its best to have technics
because
:theyre the club standard but Im seeing the vestax  popping up in more
and
:more clubs nowadays so I dont know if thats still valid.
:
:jus' my tuppence worth !
:
:peace,
:Marc
:
: -Original Message-
: From: seth redmond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Sent: 20 November 2002 10:32
: To: 313@hyperreal.org
: Subject: (313) re: best decks
:
:
: OK, this is a little off-topic but...
:
: I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher
: torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the
: people who've
: used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or
: Technics (probably
: 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?
:
: ta
:
: -s
:
:
: _
: The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
: http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
:
:
:
:---

:---
:This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of
the
:designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended
recipient
:of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination,
:distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This
:communication is for information purposes only and should not be
regarded
:as an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any
financial
:product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official
:statement of Lehman Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed
to
:be secure or error-free.  Therefore, we do not represent that this
:information is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as
:such.  All information is subject to change without notice.
:

RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread seth redmond

I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse. Although it 
seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing on Vestax I 
missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my finger 
across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although unexpectedly 
had no trouble moving back to technics again.
I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad for the motor 
in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss on 
technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the +50's but I've 
often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the technics and had 
to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down


it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build quality, but don't 
know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue. their mixers 
have always been pretty nice mind.


-s


From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond' 
[EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org

Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -


I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix things
at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also very
useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may not
be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the tonearm
being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the theory
anyway)
Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge insomuch
as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
you can hear the tapping.



_
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Sorry I coming into the topic late, buta re we talking
about Vestax TTX vs. Technics by chance? My friend
just got a set of the TTXs and they seem pretty pimp.
They have a keylock (pitch shift?) function on them
that we don't know how to use yet. Anyone familiar?

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, seth redmond wrote:

I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or
worse. Although it
seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried
mixing on Vestax I
missed the ability to drop a record back into time by
dragging my finger
across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s;
although unexpectedly
had no trouble moving back to technics again.
I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this
habit
(bad for the motor
in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure
I would miss on
technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use
the +50's but I've
often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range
on
the technics and had
to piss about subtely speeding the other record up /
down

it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the
build quality, but don't
know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an
issue. their mixers
have always been pretty nice mind.

-s

From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth
redmond'
[EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -

I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at
the time) and I
really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use
you can mix things
at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse
button is also very
useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more
torque - which may not
be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using
vestax technics
feel very light and you need to use a much gentler
touch and yeah
skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is
due to the tonearm
being designed to produce no lateral force
perpendicular to the tonearm
instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm
(or
that's the theory
anyway)
Build quality wise I would say that echnics still
have
the edge insomuch
as touching the deck with the needle on the record
doesn't seem to make
a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if
you tap the vestax
you can hear the tapping.

_
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months
FREE*.
a
href=http://mail.peoplepc.com/jump/http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail;http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail/a

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com

Re: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread James Bucknell

jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against the
platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting the
spindle?

i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.

so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s without touching the
platter?
james



 From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 
 I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse. Although it
 seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing on Vestax I
 missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my finger
 across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although unexpectedly
 had no trouble moving back to technics again.
 I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad for the motor
 in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss on
 technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the +50's but I've
 often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the technics and had
 to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down
 
 it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build quality, but don't
 know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue. their mixers
 have always been pretty nice mind.
 
 -s
 
 From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond'
 [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
 
 
 I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
 really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix things
 at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also very
 useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may not
 be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
 feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
 skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the tonearm
 being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
 instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the theory
 anyway)
 Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge insomuch
 as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
 a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
 you can hear the tapping.
 
 
 _
 Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Re: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread Toby Frith

I've yet to master the trick of using the pitch adjust to do it. Tricky, but
the best way.

- Original Message -
From: James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks

 jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against the
 platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting the
 spindle?

 i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.

 so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s without touching the
 platter?
 james

  From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

  I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse. Although
it
  seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing on Vestax
I
  missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my finger
  across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although
unexpectedly
  had no trouble moving back to technics again.
  I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad for the
motor
  in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss on
  technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the +50's but I've
  often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the technics and
had
  to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down

  it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build quality, but
don't
  know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue. their
mixers
  have always been pretty nice mind.

  -s

  From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond'
  [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -

  I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
  really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix
things
  at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also
very
  useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may
not
  be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
  feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
  skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the
tonearm
  being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
  instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the
theory
  anyway)
  Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge
insomuch
  as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
  a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
  you can hear the tapping.

  _
  Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

RE: (313) re: best decks


Or speed up and slow down the record rather than the platter - tho if
the hole is too slack the record will stop completely, if its too tight
the effect on the motor is virtually the same.

:-Original Message-
:From: Toby Frith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:03 PM
:To: James Bucknell; 313@hyperreal.org
:Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
:
:I've yet to master the trick of using the pitch adjust to do it.
Tricky,
:but
:the best way.
:
:
:- Original Message -
:From: James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:To: 313@hyperreal.org
:Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:07 PM
:Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
:
:
: jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against
the
: platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting
the
: spindle?
:
: i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.
:
: so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s without touching
the
: platter?
: james
:
:
:
:  From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
:  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
:  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
: 
:  I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse.
Although
:it
:  seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing on
Vestax
:I
:  missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my
:finger
:  across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although
:unexpectedly
:  had no trouble moving back to technics again.
:  I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad for
the
:motor
:  in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss
on
:  technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the +50's but
:I've
:  often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the
technics
:and
:had
:  to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down
: 
:  it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build quality,
but
:don't
:  know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue. their
:mixers
:  have always been pretty nice mind.
: 
:  -s
: 
:  From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond'
:  [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
:  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
:  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
: 
: 
:  I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and
I
:  really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix
:things
:  at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is
also
:very
:  useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which
may
:not
:  be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax
technics
:  feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
:  skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the
:tonearm
:  being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the
:tonearm
:  instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the
:theory
:  anyway)
:  Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge
:insomuch
:  as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to
:make
:  a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the
:vestax
:  you can hear the tapping.
: 
: 
:  _
:  Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
:  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
: 
: 
:
:

Re: (313) re: best decks

But it's worth persevering with. I rarely touch the record or platter and it
gives you far more control over those records that aren't constant, e.g.
disco. It also doesn't sound so obvious. You also become far more sensitive
to tempo changes - it'll take about 10-20 seconds to get stuff pretty much
dead on when cueing up.

I wouldn't follow Pierre when it comes to beat matching in any case ;)

 I've yet to master the trick of using the pitch adjust to do it. Tricky,
but
 the best way.

  jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against the
  platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting the
  spindle?
 
  i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.

RE: (313) re: best decks

Don't DJ here any more, but I nearly always used the outside to drag or push
on 1210's, and never had motor problems with them at all. More often than
not, you'd have to take the 1210's apart to get back the bezel for the
on/off. The only other viable way of speeding/slowing without going against
the motor is by over/under-repitching. If you try and play with the vinyl,
you either end up not having an effect, or you over step the mark (that
doesn't include press-pushing it, as that's working against the motor also).

I'd say that using the spindle is probably more risky than using the
outside, unless you really want to throw some speed into getting it matched.
Again, if you get it wrong, you can knock back the mix by more than you
really need, or you find that the motor overrides your attempts, and you get
further out. Only time I really used the spindle was for phasing tracks by
thumbing the spindle (never grab it, as you may find that a heavily-used
deck may have more give in the motor).

The only thing I found with Technics was the accuracy between +/- 2 and the
point at which the pitch light goes on/off. Usually over a 120bpm track
you'd lose/gain quarter to half a bpm. Not sure if that's relevant anymore
with newer versions (if there are any).

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: James Bucknell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 21 November 2002 16:08
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


 jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against the
 platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting the
 spindle?

 i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.

 so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s without touching the
 platter?
 james



  From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 
  I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse.
 Although it
  seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing
 on Vestax I
  missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my finger
  across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although
 unexpectedly
  had no trouble moving back to technics again.
  I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad
 for the motor
  in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss on
  technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the +50's but I've
  often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the
 technics and had
  to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down
 
  it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build
 quality, but don't
  know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue.
 their mixers
  have always been pretty nice mind.
 
  -s
 
  From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond'
  [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
 
 
  I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
  really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can
 mix things
  at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is
 also very
  useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque -
 which may not
  be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
  feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
  skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to
 the tonearm
  being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
  instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's
 the theory
  anyway)
  Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the
 edge insomuch
  as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
  a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
  you can hear the tapping.
 
 
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Re: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread T.J.Johnson

Actually, touching the platter has the same effect on
the motor as adjusting the pitch unless you are totally
jamming the platter to a near halt. If you lightly
touch the platter or just twist the spindle, the
effects are no worse than adjusting the pitch. When
you adjust the pitch, the motor slows down but the
platter still wants to spin fast. The platter's moment
of inertia puts a torque on the motor (which is
instantaneously spinning slower that the record) before
it slows down. I wouldn't worry too much about it. If
it were disastrous to the motor, Technics wouldn't have
a stop button, which brings the platter to a fast halt.
This exerts a bigger torque to the motor than rubbing
your finger against the platter for sure.

Just imagine if you were to hold a merry-go-round by
its shaft while it were spinning and your hands were
the motor keeping it going. If you want the thing to
spin faster, you would have to start moving your hands
ffaster. In doing this, you would feel a reaction
torque on your hands from the platter. ie, the
merry-go-round would want to spin slower until the
motor pushes it faster. When the motor pushes the
platter pushes back. When you touch the platter the
platter pushes and the motor pushes back...

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, James Bucknell wrote:

jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your
finger against the
platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up
by twisting the
spindle?

i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the
same.

so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s
without touching the
platter?
james

From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better
or worse. Although it
seems logical to get as much as possible, when I
tried mixing on Vestax I
missed the ability to drop a record back into time
by
dragging my finger
across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s;
although unexpectedly
had no trouble moving back to technics again.
I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this
habit (bad for the motor
in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am
sure I would miss on
technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to
use
the +50's but I've
often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range
on the technics and had
to piss about subtely speeding the other record up /
down

it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the
build quality, but don't
know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be
an issue. their mixers
have always been pretty nice mind.

-s

From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Langsman, Marc'
[EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth
redmond'
[EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -

I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at
the time) and I
really love it: -50% is actually really useful as
use you can mix things
at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a
reverse
button is also very
useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more
torque - which may not
be a good thing if you play out a lot as after
using
vestax technics
feel very light and you need to use a much gentler
touch and yeah
skipping is virtually non existent which I believe
is due to the tonearm
being designed to produce no lateral force
perpendicular to the tonearm
instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm
(or that's the theory
anyway)
Build quality wise I would say that echnics still
have the edge insomuch
as touching the deck with the needle on the record
doesn't seem to make
a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes
if
you tap the vestax
you can hear the tapping.

_
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RE: (313) re: best decks


I think this is down to the fact there is a bearing on a spring that
clicks into place to lock the pitch control on zero - I know you can
have this modified so you don't get the click - im not sure if the later
technics with quartz lock ditched this featuer making the modification
unecessary

:The only thing I found with Technics was the accuracy between +/- 2 and
the
:point at which the pitch light goes on/off. Usually over a 120bpm track
:you'd lose/gain quarter to half a bpm. Not sure if that's relevant
anymore
:with newer versions (if there are any).
:
:Dscaper
:--
:Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
:A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the
:sign
:of a man who knows.
:
:
: -Original Message-
: From: James Bucknell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Sent: 21 November 2002 16:08
: To: 313@hyperreal.org
: Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
:
:
: jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against
the
: platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting
the
: spindle?
:
: i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.
:
: so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s without touching
the
: platter?
: james
:
:
:
:  From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
:  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
:  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
: 
:  I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse.
: Although it
:  seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing
: on Vestax I
:  missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my
:finger
:  across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although
: unexpectedly
:  had no trouble moving back to technics again.
:  I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad
: for the motor
:  in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss
on
:  technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the +50's but
:I've
:  often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the
: technics and had
:  to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down
: 
:  it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build
: quality, but don't
:  know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue.
: their mixers
:  have always been pretty nice mind.
: 
:  -s
: 
:  From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond'
:  [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
:  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
:  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
: 
: 
:  I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and
I
:  really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can
: mix things
:  at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is
: also very
:  useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque -
: which may not
:  be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax
technics
:  feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
:  skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to
: the tonearm
:  being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the
:tonearm
:  instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's
: the theory
:  anyway)
:  Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the
: edge insomuch
:  as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to
:make
:  a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the
:vestax
:  you can hear the tapping.
: 
: 
:  _
:  Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
:  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
: 
: 
:

RE: (313) re: best decks


Ah yes that reminds me about the other cool feature on the pdx2000s -
the stop button stops records dead - no slow down at all really and
there is a pot to adjust the braking speed from this to power off style
slow down (there is also one for start up speed which is slightly less
useful)

:-Original Message-
:From: T.J.Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:37 PM
:To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
:Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
:
:Actually, touching the platter has the same effect on
:the motor as adjusting the pitch unless you are totally
:jamming the platter to a near halt.  If you lightly
:touch the platter or just twist the spindle, the
:effects are no worse than adjusting the pitch.  When
:you adjust the pitch, the motor slows down but the
:platter still wants to spin fast.  The platter's moment
:of inertia puts a torque on the motor (which is
:instantaneously spinning slower that the record) before
:it slows down.  I wouldn't worry too much about it.  If
:it were disastrous to the motor, Technics wouldn't have
:a stop button, which brings the platter to a fast halt.
: This exerts a bigger torque to the motor than rubbing
:your finger against the platter for sure.
:
:Just imagine if you were to hold a merry-go-round by
:its shaft while it were spinning and your hands were
:the motor keeping it going.  If you want the thing to
:spin faster, you would have to start moving your hands
:ffaster.  In doing this, you would feel a reaction
:torque on your hands from the platter. ie, the
:merry-go-round would want to spin slower until the
:motor pushes it faster.  When the motor pushes the
:platter pushes back.  When you touch the platter the
:platter pushes and the motor pushes back...
:
:
:
:On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, James Bucknell wrote:
:
:
: jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your
: finger against the
: platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up
: by twisting the
: spindle?
:
: i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the
: same.
:
: so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s
: without touching the
: platter?
: james
:
:
:
:  From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
:  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],
: 313@hyperreal.org
:  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
: 
:  I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better
: or worse. Although it
:  seems logical to get as much as possible, when I
: tried mixing on Vestax I
:  missed the ability to drop a record back into time
:by
: dragging my finger
:  across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s;
: although unexpectedly
:  had no trouble moving back to technics again.
:  I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this
: habit (bad for the motor
:  in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am
: sure I would miss on
:  technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to
:use
: the +50's but I've
:  often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range
: on the technics and had
:  to piss about subtely speeding the other record up /
: down
: 
:  it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the
: build quality, but don't
:  know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be
: an issue. their mixers
:  have always been pretty nice mind.
: 
:  -s
: 
:  From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:  To: 'Langsman, Marc'
:[EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth
: redmond'
:  [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
:  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
:  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
: 
: 
:  I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at
: the time) and I
:  really love it: -50% is actually really useful as
: use you can mix things
:  at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a
:reverse
: button is also very
:  useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more
: torque - which may not
:  be a good thing if you play out a lot as after
:using
: vestax technics
:  feel very light and you need to use a much gentler
: touch and yeah
:  skipping is virtually non existent which I believe
: is due to the tonearm
:  being designed to produce no lateral force
: perpendicular to the tonearm
:  instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm
: (or that's the theory
:  anyway)
:  Build quality wise I would say that echnics still
: have the edge insomuch
:  as touching the deck with the needle on the record
: doesn't seem to make
:  a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes
:if
: you tap the vestax
:  you can hear the tapping.
: 
: 
: 
:
:_
:  Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months
: FREE*.
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:href=http://mail.peoplepc.com/jump/http://join.msn.com/?page=features/
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: 
:
:
:TJJ
:
:~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~
:
:PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
:http://www.peoplepc.com

RE: (313) re: best decks

You can do the same on a 1210 tho... just lift the needle off the record.

Problem is tho, you have to make it sound like you meant to do it. ;)

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Neil Wallace [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 12:42
 To: 'T.J.Johnson'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks



 Ah yes that reminds me about the other cool feature on the pdx2000s -
 the stop button stops records dead - no slow down at all really and
 there is a pot to adjust the braking speed from this to power off style
 slow down (there is also one for start up speed which is slightly less
 useful)

RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread seth redmond

pimp? keylock? que?

From: T.J.Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 03:53:01 -0800 (PST)

Sorry I coming into the topic late, buta re we talking
about Vestax TTX vs. Technics by chance?  My friend
just got a set of the TTXs and they seem pretty pimp.
They have a keylock (pitch shift?) function on them
that we don't know how to use yet.  Anyone familiar?

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, seth redmond wrote:

 I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or
 worse. Although it
 seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried
 mixing on Vestax I
 missed the ability to drop a record back into time by
 dragging my finger
 across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s;
 although unexpectedly
 had no trouble moving back to technics again.
 I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this
habit
 (bad for the motor
 in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure
 I would miss on
 technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use
 the +50's but I've
 often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range
on
 the technics and had
 to piss about subtely speeding the other record up /
 down

 it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the
 build quality, but don't
 know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an
 issue. their mixers
 have always been pretty nice mind.

 -s

 From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth
 redmond'
 [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -

 I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at
 the time) and I
 really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use
 you can mix things
 at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse
 button is also very
 useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more
 torque - which may not
 be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using
 vestax technics
 feel very light and you need to use a much gentler
 touch and yeah
 skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is
 due to the tonearm
 being designed to produce no lateral force
 perpendicular to the tonearm
 instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm
(or
 that's the theory
 anyway)
 Build quality wise I would say that echnics still
have
 the edge insomuch
 as touching the deck with the needle on the record
 doesn't seem to make
 a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if
 you tap the vestax
 you can hear the tapping.

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 Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months
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PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com

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Re: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread Michael Lees


Hi,

I bought a pair of the old vestax (PDX1's or something - they had 
another version PDX2's which had the tone arm at the top for scratching) 
about 3 years ago. I can say I've not had one problem with them, I 
prefer the old style vestax aesthetically.

It's certainly true, you do feel a difference going back to technics.
I played on technics for about a year prior to buying the vestax. At 
first the vestax felt strange and I wasn't sure if I'd made the right 
decision, however after a few months I was very pleased! Going back to 
Technics now is difficult but I think that's because I hardly ever use 
them. If you play regularly with both I think you shouldn't have too 
much of a problem.


The other good things about my vestax are :),
* On switch doesn't get in the way -- I had/have a bad habit of 
switching technics off with the side of my hand.

* Everything is replaceable (including pitch fader) - Never had to though
* they feel very responsive-after a while
* *Never* skip, plus you can play ultra warped records with nay problem
* Needles seem to last longer?
* Sc,.., sc,.., scratching!

2p

ps. bear in mind I'm talking about the older vestax, not too sure if 
what I say holds for 2000's but everyone says 2000s are a big 
improvement anyway.


--Mike



seth redmond wrote:

OK, this is a little off-topic but...

I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher 
torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people 
who've used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or Technics 
(probably 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?


ta

-s


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RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread rob buse

I am fairly sure that messing with the platter in any way does no damage to 
the motor.  If you ever examine the platter on a 1200, you will see that it 
is the only moving part in the system.  By starting the platter then throwing 
it forward or dragging it back, you are only working against the magnetic 
field the base unit generates.  There are no gears or belts causing 
mechanical strain and wear.  The design is so simple, which is probably why 
it hasn't changed in a long, long time.

.rob buse


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse. Although it 
seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing on Vestax I 
missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my finger 
across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although unexpectedly 
had no trouble moving back to technics again.
I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad for the motor 
in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss on 
technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the +50's but I've 
often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the technics and had 
to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down

it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build quality, but don't 
know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue. their mixers 
have always been pretty nice mind.

-s

From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond' 
[EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -


I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix things
at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also very
useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may not
be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the tonearm
being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the theory
anyway)
Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge insomuch
as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
you can hear the tapping.


_
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http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail



___
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RE: (313) re: best decks

Depends a little bit on the amount of time you've got to get the mix in, and
whether or not the target track is being thrown out to into the open, or
whether it's only in your cans. Pitch mixing also means you've got to know
your tracks very well, OR (I emphasise or) that you've cheated in some way
(front-back box, or BPM's on labels).

Horses for courses as they say. ;)

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Toby Frith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 12:03
 To: James Bucknell; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


 I've yet to master the trick of using the pitch adjust to do it.
 Tricky, but
 the best way.


 - Original Message -
 From: James Bucknell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 4:07 PM
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


  jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against the
  platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting the
  spindle?
 
  i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.
 
  so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s without touching the
  platter?
  james
 
 
 
   From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
   Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
  
   I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse. Although
 it
   seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing
 on Vestax
 I
   missed the ability to drop a record back into time by
 dragging my finger
   across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although
 unexpectedly
   had no trouble moving back to technics again.
   I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad for the
 motor
   in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I would miss on
   technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the
 +50's but I've
   often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the
 technics and
 had
   to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down
  
   it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build quality, but
 don't
   know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue. their
 mixers
   have always been pretty nice mind.
  
   -s
  
   From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond'
   [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
   Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
   Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
  
  
   I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
   really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix
 things
   at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also
 very
   useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may
 not
   be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
   feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
   skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the
 tonearm
   being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to
 the tonearm
   instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the
 theory
   anyway)
   Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge
 insomuch
   as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't
 seem to make
   a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap
 the vestax
   you can hear the tapping.
  
  
   _
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RE: (313) re: best decks

 I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad 
 for the motor 
 in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I 
 would miss on 
 technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use the 
 +50's but I've 
 often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the 
 technics and had 
 to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down

I dont think slowing the platter down with your finger affects the drive -
at least not on technics as the platter is not geared to the drive but is
driven by an induction coil. 
However I think with the vestax you can maybe use the +/-50% to 'jog' the
record instead of touching it ? I sometimes do this with the pitch on the
technics but its a bit of a bugger. 

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This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the 
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communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an 
offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an 
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Re: (313) re: best decks

- Original Message -
From: Craig Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; James Bucknell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 1:45 PM
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

 Depends a little bit on the amount of time you've got to get the mix in,
and
 whether or not the target track is being thrown out to into the open, or
 whether it's only in your cans. Pitch mixing also means you've got to know
 your tracks very well, OR (I emphasise or) that you've cheated in some way
 (front-back box, or BPM's on labels).

Just a matter of practice if ya ask me ('cheating' isn't necessary), but it
always helps to know your records of course. There's no reason mixing with
the pitch should ever be slower if you've learned to mix that way. I can't
say I'm at the 10-20 seconds rate that Jonny's got, but I can match to where
I'd feel comfortable easing it in within the first 16 bars (about 25-30
seconds) - some tracks/circumstances are harder than others of course.

It's futile for anyone to try and convince someone else they should mix
differently than what works for them, but I will say this much from my own
experience: I know a number of people who used to swear by touching their
records (including me) who now only touch their records in the mix if they
really f*ck up, but I don't know anyone who's learned to mix w/o touching
that has decided that touching records in the mix is a better way to do it.
If you ever want to see a master of this technique, watch TP.

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

Re: (313) re: best decks

I don't mean to go on, but...

You can *hear* whether a record is too fast or slow. You don't have to know
in advance. Also: cueing up is *faster* when you get used to not touching
the records. Try it. If anything, pitch mixing means you have more control
over records and therefore don't have to worry about, say, disco records
that speed up at a chorus: you accurately compensate as it happens.

I'll say it again: try it. I don't touch records in the mix, and I don't
organise my records by bpm or front - back (I'm not sure what that means
but I think you mean programming out a set in advance), and believe it or
not, can mix records I've never heard before: I buy new ones after all. And
it is much easier doing this by using the pitch control.

 Depends a little bit on the amount of time you've got to get the mix in,
and
 whether or not the target track is being thrown out to into the open, or
 whether it's only in your cans. Pitch mixing also means you've got to know
 your tracks very well, OR (I emphasise or) that you've cheated in some way
 (front-back box, or BPM's on labels).

 Horses for courses as they say. ;)

RE: (313) re: best decks


I don't see how it can possibly be faster - if the record is too slow
you must move the pitch control too far in order to overcompensate and
then shift it back down once its caught up whereas if you touch the
record you can just give it a nudge and adjust the pitch control which
is instant.

:-Original Message-
:From: Jonny McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
:Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:08 PM
:To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Toby Frith; James Bucknell; 313@hyperreal.org
:Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
:
:I don't mean to go on, but...
:
:You can *hear* whether a record is too fast or slow. You don't have to
know
:in advance. Also: cueing up is *faster* when you get used to not
touching
:the records. Try it. If anything, pitch mixing means you have more
control
:over records and therefore don't have to worry about, say, disco
records
:that speed up at a chorus: you accurately compensate as it happens.
:
:I'll say it again: try it. I don't touch records in the mix, and I
don't
:organise my records by bpm or front - back (I'm not sure what that
means
:but I think you mean programming out a set in advance), and believe it
or
:not, can mix records I've never heard before: I buy new ones after all.
And
:it is much easier doing this by using the pitch control.
:
: Depends a little bit on the amount of time you've got to get the mix
in,
:and
: whether or not the target track is being thrown out to into the open,
or
: whether it's only in your cans. Pitch mixing also means you've got to
:know
: your tracks very well, OR (I emphasise or) that you've cheated in
some
:way
: (front-back box, or BPM's on labels).
:
: Horses for courses as they say. ;)
:

RE: (313) re: best decks

Like I said in the post before

Horses for courses. ;)

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Tristan Watkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 13:57
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Toby Frith; James Bucknell; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


 - Original Message -
 From: Craig Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Toby Frith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; James Bucknell
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 1:45 PM
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks


  Depends a little bit on the amount of time you've got to get the mix in,
 and
  whether or not the target track is being thrown out to into the open, or
  whether it's only in your cans. Pitch mixing also means you've
 got to know
  your tracks very well, OR (I emphasise or) that you've cheated
 in some way
  (front-back box, or BPM's on labels).

 Just a matter of practice if ya ask me ('cheating' isn't
 necessary), but it
 always helps to know your records of course. There's no reason mixing with
 the pitch should ever be slower if you've learned to mix that way. I can't
 say I'm at the 10-20 seconds rate that Jonny's got, but I can
 match to where
 I'd feel comfortable easing it in within the first 16 bars (about 25-30
 seconds) - some tracks/circumstances are harder than others of course.

 It's futile for anyone to try and convince someone else they should mix
 differently than what works for them, but I will say this much from my own
 experience: I know a number of people who used to swear by touching their
 records (including me) who now only touch their records in the mix if they
 really f*ck up, but I don't know anyone who's learned to mix w/o touching
 that has decided that touching records in the mix is a better way
 to do it.
 If you ever want to see a master of this technique, watch TP.

 Tristan
 =
 Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
 Music: http://www.mp313.com
 Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
 a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

RE: (313) re: best decks

yeah the zero on the fader and zero of the pitch lock can be misaligned

 -Original Message-
 From: Neil Wallace [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 12:40
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'James Bucknell'; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

 I think this is down to the fact there is a bearing on a spring that
 clicks into place to lock the pitch control on zero - I know you can
 have this modified so you don't get the click - im not sure 
 if the later
 technics with quartz lock ditched this featuer making the modification
 unecessary

 :The only thing I found with Technics was the accuracy 
 between +/- 2 and
 the
 :point at which the pitch light goes on/off. Usually over a 
 120bpm track
 :you'd lose/gain quarter to half a bpm. Not sure if that's relevant
 anymore
 :with newer versions (if there are any).
 :
 :Dscaper
 :--
 :Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
 :A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't 
 know, is the
 :sign
 :of a man who knows.
 :
 :
 : -Original Message-
 : From: James Bucknell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 : Sent: 21 November 2002 16:08
 : To: 313@hyperreal.org
 : Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
 :
 :
 : jeebers--it's bad to slow a record by dragging your finger against
 the
 : platter? does the same apply to speeding the record up by twisting
 the
 : spindle?
 :
 : i just watched what dj pierre did and tried to do the same.
 :
 : so how are you meant to slow a record on the 1200s without touching
 the
 : platter?
 : james
 :
 :
 :
 :  From: seth redmond [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 :  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:49:45 +
 :  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], 
 313@hyperreal.org
 :  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 : 
 :  I'm still undecided on whether the torque is better or worse.
 : Although it
 :  seems logical to get as much as possible, when I tried mixing
 : on Vestax I
 :  missed the ability to drop a record back into time by dragging my
 :finger
 :  across the edge of the plate as I could with 1200s; although
 : unexpectedly
 :  had no trouble moving back to technics again.
 :  I am pretty convinced that once I got out of this habit (bad
 : for the motor
 :  in any case) I wouldn't mind. The only thing I am sure I 
 would miss
 on
 :  technics is the +10 pitch control. I never had to use 
 the +50's but
 :I've
 :  often found that I was agonisingly just-out-of-range on the
 : technics and had
 :  to piss about subtely speeding the other record up / down
 : 
 :  it's not the first time I've heard doubts about the build
 : quality, but don't
 :  know anyone who's had them long enough for it to be an issue.
 : their mixers
 :  have always been pretty nice mind.
 : 
 :  -s
 : 
 :  From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 :  To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'seth redmond'
 :  [EMAIL PROTECTED],313@hyperreal.org
 :  Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 :  Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
 : 
 : 
 :  I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the 
 time) and
 I
 :  really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can
 : mix things
 :  at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is
 : also very
 :  useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque -
 : which may not
 :  be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax
 technics
 :  feel very light and you need to use a much gentler 
 touch and yeah
 :  skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to
 : the tonearm
 :  being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the
 :tonearm
 :  instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's
 : the theory
 :  anyway)
 :  Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the
 : edge insomuch
 :  as touching the deck with the needle on the record 
 doesn't seem to
 :make
 :  a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the
 :vestax
 :  you can hear the tapping.
 : 
 : 
 :  _
 :  Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
 :  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
 : 
 : 
 :

--
This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the 
designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of 
this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This 
communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an 
offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an 
official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman 
Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free.  
Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate 
and it should not be relied upon as such.  All information is subject to

Re: (313) re: best decks

- Original Message -
From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

 I don't see how it can possibly be faster - if the record is too slow
 you must move the pitch control too far in order to overcompensate and
 then shift it back down once its caught up whereas if you touch the
 record you can just give it a nudge and adjust the pitch control which
 is instant.

It really is. You get a feel for zeroing in on it really quickly. It
actually helps you hear better, if that makes any sense. I've taught DJing,
so I know this is a pretty useless argument, but the only way you can know
for sure, is to learn it and try it, or watch someone who knows how to do
it.

Most of who I consider to be the best DJs, and especially those who mix
fastest, mix using the pitch. This is not to say they never touch a record,
but that it's a last resort. Where's Derek Plaslaiko AKA 'Mr. I Don't Need
Headphones'? ;)

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

(313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread Eric Scuccimarra

I have a pair of the older Vestax and I love them. I have no problem using 
Technics other than that annoying 0 pitch lock on the older models. My 
Vestax are not the ones with the +-50% but still the extra 2% on the slider 
helps a lot. I find the motor on the Vestax to be much stronger than on any 
Technics I've used and my only complaints are that the tone-arm seems to be 
lighter and not quite as stable and that when you hit stop it slows down 
instead of screeching to a halt like the Technics do. These problems may 
have been corrected on the newer Vestax.


Eric

At 10:31 AM 11/20/2002 +, seth redmond wrote:

OK, this is a little off-topic but...

I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher 
torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people 
who've used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or Technics 
(probably 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?


ta

-s


_
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RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread Stang Anya

Have to agree with Jonny, although I don't really deejay, I only mix
for my livingroom walls. My original reason for using the pitch only
was that I just didn't want my sweatysalty fingerprints all over my
records (and I did do it to try it out) so I had to find a way on how
to go about this. And that's how it works best for me now.

Anya : )

 -Original Message-
 From: Jonny McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:08 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Toby Frith; James Bucknell; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
 
 
 I don't mean to go on, but...
 
 You can *hear* whether a record is too fast or slow. You 
 don't have to know
 in advance. Also: cueing up is *faster* when you get used to 
 not touching
 the records. Try it. If anything, pitch mixing means you have 
 more control
 over records and therefore don't have to worry about, say, 
 disco records
 that speed up at a chorus: you accurately compensate as it happens.
[...]

RE: (313) re: best decks


Each to his own I think - but Im with merf, I can mix both ways but Im
geenrally at the point now where I can shift the record with my fingers and
then stick the pitch control in roughly the right place. As I mix quite a
lot of ghetto stuff now which generally involeves having the two tunes
pitched in like 5 secs , using the pitch fader without touching the record
it definitely too slow.

If you check godfather and assault in the mix [some good vids on groovetech]
they dont use the pitch method - its just too slow to get a track mixed in
in like a few seconds.

 -Original Message-
 From: Tristan Watkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:22
 To: Neil Wallace
 Cc: 313
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:13 PM
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 
 
 
  I don't see how it can possibly be faster - if the record 
 is too slow
  you must move the pitch control too far in order to 
 overcompensate and
  then shift it back down once its caught up whereas if you touch the
  record you can just give it a nudge and adjust the pitch 
 control which
  is instant.
 
 It really is. You get a feel for zeroing in on it really quickly. It
 actually helps you hear better, if that makes any sense. I've 
 taught DJing,
 so I know this is a pretty useless argument, but the only way 
 you can know
 for sure, is to learn it and try it, or watch someone who 
 knows how to do
 it.
 
 Most of who I consider to be the best DJs, and especially 
 those who mix
 fastest, mix using the pitch. This is not to say they never 
 touch a record,
 but that it's a last resort. Where's Derek Plaslaiko AKA 'Mr. 
 I Don't Need
 Headphones'? ;)
 
 Tristan
 =
 Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
 Music: http://www.mp313.com
 Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
 a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com
 
 
 

--
This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the 
designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of 
this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This 
communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an 
offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an 
official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman 
Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free.  
Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate 
and it should not be relied upon as such.  All information is subject to change 
without notice.

Re: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread Erik Jälevik

This has happened on mine. Does anyone know if this is easy to fix? Or maybe
point me to somewhere where it tells me how to do it?

- Original Message -
From: Langsman, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Neil Wallace' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'James
Bucknell' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks



 yeah the zero on the fader and zero of the pitch lock can be misaligned

RE: (313) re: best decks


basically there are two pots from what I remem in the 1210s - I think one
changes the scale of the pitch control and the other chnages the alignment.
I think you need to fiddle with both of them but Ive not tinkered with mine
in a while so Id recommend you check the 1210s faq out :

http://music.hyperreal.org/dj/sl1200.html 



 -Original Message-
 From: Erik Jälevik [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:28
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks
 
 
 This has happened on mine. Does anyone know if this is easy 
 to fix? Or maybe
 point me to somewhere where it tells me how to do it?
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Langsman, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Neil Wallace' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'James
 Bucknell' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:20 PM
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 
 
 
  yeah the zero on the fader and zero of the pitch lock can 
 be misaligned
 
 
 

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This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the 
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communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an 
offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an 
official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman 
Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free.  
Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate 
and it should not be relied upon as such.  All information is subject to change 
without notice.

(313) technics (re: best decks)

2002-11-20 Thread Robertson, Steven

Does anyone know if it's possible to replace the pitch slider on technics
1200s with the new ones, and if so, roughly how much would this cost?

Just wondered...

-Original Message-
From: Eric Scuccimarra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 November 2002 14:24
To: seth redmond; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: (313) re: best decks

I have a pair of the older Vestax and I love them. I have no problem using 
Technics other than that annoying 0 pitch lock on the older models. My 
Vestax are not the ones with the +-50% but still the extra 2% on the slider 
helps a lot. I find the motor on the Vestax to be much stronger than on any 
Technics I've used and my only complaints are that the tone-arm seems to be 
lighter and not quite as stable and that when you hit stop it slows down 
instead of screeching to a halt like the Technics do. These problems may 
have been corrected on the newer Vestax.

Eric

At 10:31 AM 11/20/2002 +, seth redmond wrote:
OK, this is a little off-topic but...

I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher 
torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people 
who've used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or Technics 
(probably 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?

ta

-s

_
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RE: (313) technics (re: best decks)


you can def replace the whole pitch module - however Im not sure what would
happen with the pitch lock because the mk3's have a button mounted on the
deck instead of the clicky swtich at 0. I guess you might be able to just
not hook up a pitch lock or botch your own ? 

 -Original Message-
 From: Robertson, Steven 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:37
 To: 313 List (E-mail)
 Subject: (313) technics (re: best decks)
 
 
 Does anyone know if it's possible to replace the pitch slider 
 on technics
 1200s with the new ones, and if so, roughly how much would this cost?
 
 Just wondered...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Eric Scuccimarra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:24
 To: seth redmond; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) re: best decks
 
 
 I have a pair of the older Vestax and I love them. I have no 
 problem using 
 Technics other than that annoying 0 pitch lock on the older 
 models. My 
 Vestax are not the ones with the +-50% but still the extra 2% 
 on the slider 
 helps a lot. I find the motor on the Vestax to be much 
 stronger than on any 
 Technics I've used and my only complaints are that the 
 tone-arm seems to be 
 lighter and not quite as stable and that when you hit stop it 
 slows down 
 instead of screeching to a halt like the Technics do. These 
 problems may 
 have been corrected on the newer Vestax.
 
 Eric
 
 At 10:31 AM 11/20/2002 +, seth redmond wrote:
 OK, this is a little off-topic but...
 
 I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control 
 and higher 
 torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people 
 who've used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or 
 Technics 
 (probably 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?
 
 ta
 
 -s
 
 
 _
 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
 

--
This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the 
designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of 
this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, 
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This 
communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as an 
offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial product, an 
official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official statement of Lehman 
Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free.  
Therefore, we do not represent that this information is complete or accurate 
and it should not be relied upon as such.  All information is subject to change 
without notice.

Re: (313) re: best decks

- Original Message -
From: Langsman, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:28 PM
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

 Each to his own I think - but Im with merf, I can mix both ways but Im
 geenrally at the point now where I can shift the record with my fingers
and
 then stick the pitch control in roughly the right place. As I mix quite a
 lot of ghetto stuff now which generally involeves having the two tunes
 pitched in like 5 secs , using the pitch fader without touching the record
 it definitely too slow.

Seen it done in zero seconds, :) but in general I'd agree.

 If you check godfather and assault in the mix [some good vids on
groovetech]
 they dont use the pitch method - its just too slow to get a track mixed in
 in like a few seconds.

Fair enough. In these guys hands adjusting the pitch of the records *at all*
is an afterthought. :) They do adjust the tempo with the pitch as well
though. I think it's safe to say you need to be competent with both in order
to get a record mixed in less than 30 seconds.

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

RE: (313) re: best decks

I you're all getting the wrong end of the stick with what I'm saying.

Firstly, my comments were in association to a little bit upon the
circumstances (i.e. awkward venue acoustics, bad/underpowered/non-existant
monitors, headphone breakdown). Secondly, I worked long and hard enough to
mix either via touching or shifting since 1991 (professionally for 6 years)
using a mix of the two as a basis. Lastly, You can *hear* whether a record
is too fast or slow. You don't have to know in advance. - ahhh now I know
why headphones and a monitor come in handy. Please. :)

I'll reiterate Horses for courses as they say.

BTW, you're initials ain't CJ are they? :)

I think I got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. This sarcastic
headache won't waver.

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.

 -Original Message-
 From: Jonny McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:08
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Toby Frith; James Bucknell; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


 I don't mean to go on, but...

 You can *hear* whether a record is too fast or slow. You don't
 have to know
 in advance. Also: cueing up is *faster* when you get used to not touching
 the records. Try it. If anything, pitch mixing means you have more control
 over records and therefore don't have to worry about, say, disco records
 that speed up at a chorus: you accurately compensate as it happens.

 I'll say it again: try it. I don't touch records in the mix, and I don't
 organise my records by bpm or front - back (I'm not sure what that means
 but I think you mean programming out a set in advance), and believe it or
 not, can mix records I've never heard before: I buy new ones
 after all. And
 it is much easier doing this by using the pitch control.

  Depends a little bit on the amount of time you've got to get the mix in,
 and
  whether or not the target track is being thrown out to into the open, or
  whether it's only in your cans. Pitch mixing also means you've
 got to know
  your tracks very well, OR (I emphasise or) that you've cheated
 in some way
  (front-back box, or BPM's on labels).
 
  Horses for courses as they say. ;)

Re: (313) technics (re: best decks)

- Original Message -
From: Langsman, Marc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Robertson, Steven' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313
List (E-mail) 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: (313) technics (re: best decks)

 you can def replace the whole pitch module - however Im not sure what
would
 happen with the pitch lock because the mk3's have a button mounted on the
 deck instead of the clicky swtich at 0. I guess you might be able to just
 not hook up a pitch lock or botch your own ?

Yeah. My friend worked out a mod to remove the pitch lock entirely. I think
*he* did it with just a pocket knife and some duct tape, but mear mortals
may need a little help from an instruction manual me thinks. :) I will try
and see if there are instructions anywhere, or if this is his own little
turntable customization secret.

Until then, this may answer some of the other pitch calibration questions:
http://music.hyperreal.org/dj/sl1200.html

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

RE: (313) technics (re: best decks)

2002-11-20 Thread Robertson, Steven

Oh yeah...It would be better if it was possible to get a replacement with
the switch somewhere other than the middle of the slider. The 0 pitch lock
gets worse with age and it feels like treacle to an otherwise perfect tool.
I wouldn't wish to botch them like that.

-Original Message-
From: Langsman, Marc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 November 2002 14:47
To: 'Robertson, Steven'; 313 List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: (313) technics (re: best decks)

you can def replace the whole pitch module - however Im not sure what would
happen with the pitch lock because the mk3's have a button mounted on the
deck instead of the clicky swtich at 0. I guess you might be able to just
not hook up a pitch lock or botch your own ? 

 -Original Message-
 From: Robertson, Steven 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:37
 To: 313 List (E-mail)
 Subject: (313) technics (re: best decks)

 Does anyone know if it's possible to replace the pitch slider 
 on technics
 1200s with the new ones, and if so, roughly how much would this cost?

 Just wondered...

 -Original Message-
 From: Eric Scuccimarra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:24
 To: seth redmond; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) re: best decks

 I have a pair of the older Vestax and I love them. I have no 
 problem using 
 Technics other than that annoying 0 pitch lock on the older 
 models. My 
 Vestax are not the ones with the +-50% but still the extra 2% 
 on the slider 
 helps a lot. I find the motor on the Vestax to be much 
 stronger than on any 
 Technics I've used and my only complaints are that the 
 tone-arm seems to be 
 lighter and not quite as stable and that when you hit stop it 
 slows down 
 instead of screeching to a halt like the Technics do. These 
 problems may 
 have been corrected on the newer Vestax.

 Eric

 At 10:31 AM 11/20/2002 +, seth redmond wrote:
 OK, this is a little off-topic but...

 I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control 
 and higher 
 torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people 
 who've used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or 
 Technics 
 (probably 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?

 ta

 -s

 _
 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

--
This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the
designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient
of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This
communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as
an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial
product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official
statement of Lehman Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be
secure or error-free.  Therefore, we do not represent that this information
is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as such.  All
information is subject to change without notice.

(313) bleep43.com (SPAM)

2002-11-20 Thread Odeluga, Ken

In between partying, Toby and Emile have updated the website: 

http://bleep43.com

Go there now to read the subtlest insights on 

KRAFTWERK LIVE IN PARIS;

ELECTRO GODSON ROB EUROH;

UNDERGROUND TECHNO MEISTERMIND CHRIS FINCKE;

PLUS PIX OF THE INFAMOUS SLICES PARTIES;

(and more.)
k

(313) Release

2002-11-20 Thread glass city records

Glass City Records presents Release every Thursday.


November 21st 

Christian Bloch...Tresor...Techno

Nelson...GlassCityRecords...House

QuakeDirty Krew.Drum and Bass

Doors open at 10pm-230
$3 for 21 and over $4 under 21
$2 for 32oz drafts

Info:
(419)246-0493

Hope to see some 313ers at Release.

Peace


Del Webb
Glass City Records
234 10th Street
Toledo Ohio, 43602
(419)246-0493
www.GlassCityRecords.com

Re: (313) Listmember's sites

2002-11-20 Thread gretchen anderson

My site is:

www.bassjunky.tk

It's got a couple of recent mixes posted.

Here's the latest. 
Tracklisting:
mhonolink - take it back - mhonday
j. mills? - imposter? - white
octave one - day star rising - 430 west
user - a1 - 06
dietrich schoenman - down in it - blueline
code red - b1 - 08
ramtin - slamic - subspace
thomas krome - hallis i underlandt - stjartlapp
smith  selway - tronic 15.5
damon wild/the advent - voyeur - synewave
chris liebling - analgon (steve rachmad mix)- clr
mhonolink - the malfunction (advent mix) - zync
rob hood - red passion 2 - duet
hardcell - headliner - amc
heiko laux - there is no return - uturn
l. slater - all exhale (rude solo mix) - novamute
the rythmist - diridon - resource
pacou - decay (surgeon mix) - tresor
poltek - railways - subspace
dietrich schoenmann - b1 - hidden agenda
monika kruse - ground zero - terminal m
monika kruse - floating - terminal m

RE: (313) technics (re: best decks)

2002-11-20 Thread House of Suki

Re: Modifying pitch sliders:
  The 1200 mk2 can be modified to remove the click AND defeat the quartz
lock (which is a relative position on the potentiometer aka pitch slider)
but soldering and taking the fader apart is required.  I know very few ppl
that actually use the lock (on either the mk2 or 3) and it also solves the
problem of having 2 zeros. You can use the Mk3 faders on the mk2 and you
will not have 0 button (faders are around $30 US).  I have modded about a
dozen technics TTs (lights, phat cables, reverse etc) and they all vary
somewhat in how everything is put together (through hole connections on
older tables, connectors on newer ones) so I recommend a service guide for
anyone diving in.  I have some reservations on the vestax TTs however since
they seem to have a lot of snap in components (rca, tone arm, quick change
fader etc) that require some physical connections.  These connections will
oxidize and degrade over time (if ever cleaned a TT that has been at a club
for a while and you know what I am talking about)and replacing the
connectors inside will definitely be expensive.  Straight tone arms are
harsh on your records also.  I think it time for Panasonic to throw some
money at they RD ppl and come up with a next generation turntable (mk3d
came out like in 1984?).

-Raph

btw. If anyone would like to pick my brain about modding techs, feel free to
email me.


-Original Message-
From: Robertson, Steven [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:59 AM
To: 'Langsman, Marc'; 313 List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: (313) technics (re: best decks)


Oh yeah...It would be better if it was possible to get a replacement with
the switch somewhere other than the middle of the slider. The 0 pitch lock
gets worse with age and it feels like treacle to an otherwise perfect tool.
I wouldn't wish to botch them like that.


-Original Message-
From: Langsman, Marc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 November 2002 14:47
To: 'Robertson, Steven'; 313 List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: (313) technics (re: best decks)



you can def replace the whole pitch module - however Im not sure what would
happen with the pitch lock because the mk3's have a button mounted on the
deck instead of the clicky swtich at 0. I guess you might be able to just
not hook up a pitch lock or botch your own ?

 -Original Message-
 From: Robertson, Steven
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:37
 To: 313 List (E-mail)
 Subject: (313) technics (re: best decks)


 Does anyone know if it's possible to replace the pitch slider
 on technics
 1200s with the new ones, and if so, roughly how much would this cost?

 Just wondered...


 -Original Message-
 From: Eric Scuccimarra [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 14:24
 To: seth redmond; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: (313) re: best decks


 I have a pair of the older Vestax and I love them. I have no
 problem using
 Technics other than that annoying 0 pitch lock on the older
 models. My
 Vestax are not the ones with the +-50% but still the extra 2%
 on the slider
 helps a lot. I find the motor on the Vestax to be much
 stronger than on any
 Technics I've used and my only complaints are that the
 tone-arm seems to be
 lighter and not quite as stable and that when you hit stop it
 slows down
 instead of screeching to a halt like the Technics do. These
 problems may
 have been corrected on the newer Vestax.

 Eric

 At 10:31 AM 11/20/2002 +, seth redmond wrote:
 OK, this is a little off-topic but...
 
 I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control
 and higher
 torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people
 who've used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or
 Technics
 (probably 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?
 
 ta
 
 -s
 
 
 _
 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



--
This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the
designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended recipient
of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This
communication is for information purposes only and should not be regarded as
an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any financial
product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official
statement of Lehman Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed to be
secure or error-free.  Therefore, we do not represent that this information
is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as such.  All
information is subject to change without notice.

(313) techno radio show 1pm est

2002-11-20 Thread scotto

my radio show will be airing to day @ 1pm

www.channelzonline.org

it consitst of three mixes by me (electro, minimal techno, acid)

there are also some tracks by kooky scientist, akufen, pantytec, and many
more

tune in
scotto
lansing, mi

interested in being a radio dj hit me back.

(313) Lenn Swann on Groovetech 11/21

2002-11-20 Thread Colette Lewis

It's not Techno but it's 313 related!

Thursday, November 21st - Lenn Swann Live on Groovetech Radio London 12pm -
2pm

Re: (313) re: best decks

I've thought about not replying to this, but your tone annoys me. More fool
me :P So I apologise for being involved in this most ludicrous of threads.

I don't quite get what you're saying - you're right. Please try and
construct well formed sentences, it makes it easier for me. I'm suggesting
people can try the pitch control technique - it's not, as you seem to be
saying (and this is a prime example of where you get incoherent), cheating
or impossible. It isn't: I do it, others do it and it's fine. It's OK. Maybe
you just can't manage it. That's OK too. Maybe you feel your 6 years'
professional experience is being undermined? I'm sorry about that. All I am
suggesting is that it can be done and that it has it's benefits. But then
*you* are the one telling us about horses for courses, so you know this,
right? Anyway, I'm not going to continue flogging this dead horse. If you
feel the need to continue your hilarious gags like the CJ initials one, do
it offlist, and try the even better gag: Have you got a rubber, Jonny. It
kills me every time.

Sorry 313. Maybe I've been reading the DHP too much lately.

 I you're all getting the wrong end of the stick with what I'm saying.

 Firstly, my comments were in association to a little bit upon the
 circumstances (i.e. awkward venue acoustics, bad/underpowered/non-existant
 monitors, headphone breakdown). Secondly, I worked long and hard enough to
 mix either via touching or shifting since 1991 (professionally for 6
years)
 using a mix of the two as a basis. Lastly, You can *hear* whether a
record
 is too fast or slow. You don't have to know in advance. - ahhh now I know
 why headphones and a monitor come in handy. Please. :)

 I'll reiterate Horses for courses as they say.

 BTW, you're initials ain't CJ are they? :)

 I think I got out of bed on the wrong side this morning. This sarcastic
 headache won't waver.

 Dscaper

Re: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread T.J.Johnson

I didn't even get the CJ joke.  CJ Bolland?  

Johnny Dangerously is a sweet movie by the way.

Horses for Courses?  WTF?  Is that like Different
strokes for different folks?

Whatever.  These posts are pretty amusing to read
though...


On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Jonny McIntosh wrote:

 
 I've thought about not replying to this, but your tone
 annoys me. More fool
 me :P So I apologise for being involved in this most
 ludicrous of threads.
 
 I don't quite get what you're saying - you're right.
 Please try and
 construct well formed sentences, it makes it easier
for
 me. I'm suggesting
 people can try the pitch control technique - it's not,
 as you seem to be
 saying (and this is a prime example of where you get
 incoherent), cheating
 or impossible. It isn't: I do it, others do it and
it's
 fine. It's OK. Maybe
 you just can't manage it. That's OK too. Maybe you
feel
 your 6 years'
 professional experience is being undermined? I'm sorry
 about that. All I am
 suggesting is that it can be done and that it has it's
 benefits. But then
 *you* are the one telling us about horses for
 courses, so you know this,
 right? Anyway, I'm not going to continue flogging this
 dead horse. If you
 feel the need to continue your hilarious gags like the
 CJ initials one, do
 it offlist, and try the even better gag: Have you got
 a rubber, Jonny. It
 kills me every time.
 
 Sorry 313. Maybe I've been reading the DHP too much
 lately.
 
  I you're all getting the wrong end of the stick with
 what I'm saying.
 
  Firstly, my comments were in association to a
little
 bit upon the
  circumstances (i.e. awkward venue acoustics,
 bad/underpowered/non-existant
  monitors, headphone breakdown). Secondly, I worked
 long and hard enough to
  mix either via touching or shifting since 1991
 (professionally for 6
 years)
  using a mix of the two as a basis. Lastly, You can
 *hear* whether a
 record
  is too fast or slow. You don't have to know in
 advance. - ahhh now I know
  why headphones and a monitor come in handy. Please.
:)
 
  I'll reiterate Horses for courses as they say.
 
  BTW, you're initials ain't CJ are they? :)
 
  I think I got out of bed on the wrong side this
 morning. This sarcastic
  headache won't waver.
 
  Dscaper

TJJ

~in a perfect world, nothing is perfect~

PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com

RE: (313) re: best decks

*rotflmao* - try not to take this post the same way as you took the last.
Yes, it was partially sarcastic as I mention at the bottom of my last post,
but you will also notice I smile alot when doing so. If I was serious about
it, then I don't smile. :)

Ok, last post on this, as the next food I'm keeping to myself, instead of
feeding the trolls.

 I don't quite get what you're saying - you're right. Please try and
 construct well formed sentences, it makes it easier for me.

I'll break it down into nice and simple sentances for you, so that you can
dissect them later at your pleasure. :)

 Maybe you feel your 6 years'
 professional experience is being undermined? I'm sorry about
 that.

Quite the opposite. I'm certain that there are many many many more people
that read these threads that are far better than I am and in a far shorter
timespan. But I ain't the one that stated the ability to play unknown
records on the fly, so it equates that I at least justify my previous
position as having a little experience of the dj'ing.

 I'm suggesting people can try the pitch control technique -
 it's not, as you seem to be saying (and this is a prime example
 of where you get incoherent), cheating or impossible. It isn't.

I never said impossible. But as people have already highlighted, when time
is against you in a mix, sometimes stalling/pushing a track might be the one
thing that can save that mix. Some people prefer to touch the platter, other
people don't. I've never advised either way on which was correct/wrong, and
I was highlighting the instances of why you may need to stall/push. Alot of
people can pitch mix because of the style of music that they play, whereas
other genres demand a far higher usage of push/stall. (I emphasise or) in
my previous post was key to how you chose to read it, as I was attempting to
indicate that people should at least try and gain a good working knowledge;
not of a track, but how a track is built. That was an error on my part, and
I apologise. :)

 I do it, others do it and it's fine.
 It's OK. Maybe you just can't manage it. That's OK too.

Believe me I can do it. :)

Lastly:

I've thought about not replying to this, but your tone annoys me. More fool
me :P So I apologise for being involved in this most ludicrous of threads.

serious
I thought it was quite useful actually, as it's highlighted the different
ways in which people mix. What I think is ludicrous is the way in which
people can somehow read between the lines and use a bit of creative
thinking to try a force a thread down a path that it was never intended to
be taken. At no point have I dilluted the thoughts of others to fit my own
devices.

Lastly, I was actually being serious about the CJ, and the hehe after the
statement was in worry, and not in jest of your name. I do have limitation
as to how far I will dive to drag up humour. It wouldn't be the first (nor
would it be the last) time that someone has turned out to be someone.
/serious

Oh, and Horses for Courses is the same Different strokes for different
folks. ;)

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.

RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread rh


You can increase the torque on Techniques, thats what I have done.  When I
hit stop the platter actually goes in reverse for a while.  All you have
to do is open it up and turn a yellow plastic nut clockwise.

rh
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Neil Wallace wrote:

 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
 From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  'seth redmond' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks


 I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
 really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix things
 at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also very
 useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may not
 be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
 feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
 skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the tonearm
 being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
 instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the theory
 anyway)
 Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge insomuch
 as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
 a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
 you can hear the tapping.

 :-Original Message-
 :From: Langsman, Marc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 :Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:41 AM
 :To: 'seth redmond'; 313@hyperreal.org
 :Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 :
 :
 :The one thing that always put me off the vestax was the fact that I
 didnt
 :want to become reliant on the features it has which arent available on
 :technics [ I find it bad enough playing out in places that dont have
 :hamster
 :switch on their mixer ]. Techn ics have always been built like a brick
 :sh!thouse and IMO vestax deck build quality has always been pretty
 shady -
 :but to their credit the new ones do actually feel damn solid and from
 what
 :Ive heard they do kick technics ass somewhat. From the brief experience
 Ive
 :had using them they seem to suffer way less with skipping/jumping than
 :technics which may be something to do with the crazy straight tonearm
 they
 :use.
 :
 :I think nowadays the price is fairly comparably between 12's and 2000's
 (I
 :think when the vestax first arrived they were like 500GBP a deck or
 :something daft). Many people argue that its best to have technics
 because
 :theyre the club standard but Im seeing the vestax  popping up in more
 and
 :more clubs nowadays so I dont know if thats still valid.
 :
 :jus' my tuppence worth !
 :
 :peace,
 :Marc
 :
 : -Original Message-
 : From: seth redmond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 : Sent: 20 November 2002 10:32
 : To: 313@hyperreal.org
 : Subject: (313) re: best decks
 :
 :
 : OK, this is a little off-topic but...
 :
 : I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher
 : torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the
 : people who've
 : used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or
 : Technics (probably
 : 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?
 :
 : ta
 :
 : -s
 :
 :
 : _
 : The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
 : http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
 :
 :
 :
 :---
 
 :---
 :This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of
 the
 :designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended
 recipient
 :of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination,
 :distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This
 :communication is for information purposes only and should not be
 regarded
 :as an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any
 financial
 :product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official
 :statement of Lehman Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed
 to
 :be secure or error-free.  Therefore, we do not represent that this
 :information is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as
 :such.  All information is subject to change without notice.
 :

RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread House of Suki

Actually,  that doesnt increase the torque (which is a function of the
motor), it increases your break.

-Original Message-
From: rh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:16 AM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

You can increase the torque on Techniques, thats what I have done.  When I
hit stop the platter actually goes in reverse for a while.  All you have
to do is open it up and turn a yellow plastic nut clockwise.

rh
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002, Neil Wallace wrote:

 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:49:55 -
 From: Neil Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: 'Langsman, Marc' [EMAIL PROTECTED],
  'seth redmond' [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

 I got one pdx 2000 (as it was all I could afford at the time) and I
 really love it: -50% is actually really useful as use you can mix things
 at half tempo to do some weird x2s, having a reverse button is also very
 useful and yes they seem to have quite a lot more torque - which may not
 be a good thing if you play out a lot as after using vestax technics
 feel very light and you need to use a much gentler touch and yeah
 skipping is virtually non existent which I believe is due to the tonearm
 being designed to produce no lateral force perpendicular to the tonearm
 instead all the forces run parallel to the tonearm (or that's the theory
 anyway)
 Build quality wise I would say that echnics still have the edge insomuch
 as touching the deck with the needle on the record doesn't seem to make
 a noise thru the speakers whereas at high volumes if you tap the vestax
 you can hear the tapping.

 :-Original Message-
 :From: Langsman, Marc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 :Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 10:41 AM
 :To: 'seth redmond'; 313@hyperreal.org
 :Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks
 :
 :
 :The one thing that always put me off the vestax was the fact that I
 didnt
 :want to become reliant on the features it has which arent available on
 :technics [ I find it bad enough playing out in places that dont have
 :hamster
 :switch on their mixer ]. Techn ics have always been built like a brick
 :sh!thouse and IMO vestax deck build quality has always been pretty
 shady -
 :but to their credit the new ones do actually feel damn solid and from
 what
 :Ive heard they do kick technics ass somewhat. From the brief experience
 Ive
 :had using them they seem to suffer way less with skipping/jumping than
 :technics which may be something to do with the crazy straight tonearm
 they
 :use.
 :
 :I think nowadays the price is fairly comparably between 12's and 2000's
 (I
 :think when the vestax first arrived they were like 500GBP a deck or
 :something daft). Many people argue that its best to have technics
 because
 :theyre the club standard but Im seeing the vestax  popping up in more
 and
 :more clubs nowadays so I dont know if thats still valid.
 :
 :jus' my tuppence worth !
 :
 :peace,
 :Marc
 :
 : -Original Message-
 : From: seth redmond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 : Sent: 20 November 2002 10:32
 : To: 313@hyperreal.org
 : Subject: (313) re: best decks
 :
 :
 : OK, this is a little off-topic but...
 :
 : I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher
 : torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the
 : people who've
 : used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or
 : Technics (probably
 : 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?
 :
 : ta
 :
 : -s
 :
 :
 : _
 : The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
 : http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
 :
 :
 :
 :---

 :---
 :This message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of
 the
 :designated recipient(s) named above.  If you are not the intended
 recipient
 :of this message you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination,
 :distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  This
 :communication is for information purposes only and should not be
 regarded
 :as an offer to sell or as a solicitation of an offer to buy any
 financial
 :product, an official confirmation of any transaction, or as an official
 :statement of Lehman Brothers.  Email transmission cannot be guaranteed
 to
 :be secure or error-free.  Therefore, we do not represent that this
 :information is complete or accurate and it should not be relied upon as
 :such.  All information is subject to change without notice.
 :

Re: (313) re: best decks

OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still unable to see
it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all records are
unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch control: it's a
lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not suggesting you do
have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you need to be at
plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not claiming there's any
more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the impression of
suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my mistake. My last
post on this.

Take care,

J R McIntosh ;)

Re: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread plaztikjezuz

personally I like the 1200's any club you play at will have these.

and I personally think the 1200's have more torque.
if you weight the platers of the 1200's over the vestax the tech's weigh a hell 
of a lot more. so the tech's engine has to not only move the weight of the 
record but also that plater.

maybe not more torque but the engine is stronger.

scotto
lansing, mi.
 OK, this is a little off-topic but...
 
 I'm leaning toward the Vestax for the longer pitch control and higher 
 torque, but I'm interested to know the list's opinion. Of the people who've 
 used both, what do people prefer the Vestax PX2000 or Technics (probably 
 1200 Mk3 if I can find any)?
 
 ta
 
 -s
 
 
 _
 The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

RE: (313) re: best decks

I did say it would be my last post, but it wouldn't be right for obvious
reasons.

My apologies also. I must admit I haven't exactly been in the best of moods,
and likewise I may have also misread comments. Well, at least we can lay
claim to entertain the other list members for the afternoon. :)

Seth Raymond (thread starter) had better buy some decks now or me and Mac
are going to take his head off. *lol*

Dscaper :)
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Jonny McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 20:18
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


 OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still
 unable to see
 it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
 point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all records are
 unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch
 control: it's a
 lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
 actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not
 suggesting you do
 have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you
 need to be at
 plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not claiming
 there's any
 more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the
 impression of
 suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my mistake. My last
 post on this.

 Take care,

 J R McIntosh ;)

RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread Cyborg K

Do you think it's possible to beat match as fast using the pitch slider as
using your hands?

If one is quick mixing this would be an issue...  I personally probably use
my hands more than I should, that is just how I have taught myself, I find
if I nudge the pitch slider forward extra to correct for the actual tempo
difference+the amount the records are off beat, I have a hard time finding
the exact spot again (which would be just slightly removed from the original
position)...

/dave

-Original Message-
From: Jonny McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 3:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still unable to see
it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all records are
unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch control: it's a
lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not suggesting you do
have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you need to be at
plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not claiming there's any
more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the impression of
suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my mistake. My last
post on this.

Take care,

J R McIntosh ;)

Re: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)

2002-11-20 Thread Rc

while we are kinda on topic.I wanted to ask about vinyl burning and
stylii

if you've got old styliil can they damage your wax?

I was playing around with two copies and repeating the intro for ages...and
then when I played the same record the next day the intro was all staticy
and defintely sounded damaged. is this vinyl burn? on some stylli/cartridge
ads they talk about this 'vinyl burn'.can old needles damage your wax?

rc

on 21/11/02 7:18 AM, Jonny McIntosh at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still unable to see
 it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
 point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all records are
 unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch control: it's a
 lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
 actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not suggesting you do
 have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you need to be at
 plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not claiming there's any
 more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the impression of
 suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my mistake. My last
 post on this.
 
 Take care,
 
 J R McIntosh ;)

RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread plaztikjezuz

it may not be faster, but IMO it is safer, when you are speading up a record by 
hand sometimes they slip and then you are no longer just a quarter beat behind 
but an unknown amount of beats ahead. 

I just reciently learned how to do this where I feel comfortable doing it in 
front of people and I think it makes a mix smoother. there are less jagged 
edges in the mix. I still resort to the speed up or drag when I'm getting the 
track close in my head phones, but I try to use the pitch for matching when I'm 
mixing.

I still touch the record if I have to, like when I really blow the mix. (lol)

scotto
lanisg, mi

ps. I would like to thank jim bishop  trent abbey for taking the time and 
teaching the tricks. 
 
 I don't see how it can possibly be faster - if the record is too slow
 you must move the pitch control too far in order to overcompensate and
 then shift it back down once its caught up whereas if you touch the
 record you can just give it a nudge and adjust the pitch control which
 is instant.

(313) Tomorrow- Chicago: Ghostly International/Idol Tryouts

2002-11-20 Thread Sam Valenti IV

Tomorrow Night (11/21) in Chicago

Ghostly International Presents...
Idol Tryouts Tour: Coda

Dabrye (Ghostly, Eastern Developments) (live)
Midwest Product (Ghostly) (live)
Matthew Dear (Ghostly/Spectral, Plus 8) (DJ/Live)
Dykehouse (Planet Mu, Ghostly) (Live/Karaoke)

Thursday, November 21st
Empty Bottle
1035 N. Western Ave.
Chicago

$8/21+

WWW.GHOSTLY.COM
WWW.EMPTYBOTTLE.COM

RE: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)

Older needles will damage the vinyl more than new ones (because the surface
area that actually touches the vinyl is smaller on older needles). But you
will still get damage to vinyl either new or old... it's friction and time.
:(

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Rc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 20:56
 To: 313
 Subject: Re: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)


 while we are kinda on topic.I wanted to ask about vinyl burning and
 stylii

 if you've got old styliil can they damage your wax?

 I was playing around with two copies and repeating the intro for
 ages...and
 then when I played the same record the next day the intro was all staticy
 and defintely sounded damaged. is this vinyl burn? on some
 stylli/cartridge
 ads they talk about this 'vinyl burn'.can old needles damage your wax?

 rc

 on 21/11/02 7:18 AM, Jonny McIntosh at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still
 unable to see
  it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
  point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all
 records are
  unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch
 control: it's a
  lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
  actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not
 suggesting you do
  have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you
 need to be at
  plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not
 claiming there's any
  more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the
 impression of
  suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my
 mistake. My last
  post on this.
 
  Take care,
 
  J R McIntosh ;)

RE: (313) re: best decks

2002-11-20 Thread Fred Heutte

I know, I've given this speech before.

It's more or less an accident of history that the Technics 1200 founded
the modern DJ age and continues to be the standard turntable.  It's
certainly been put to far more different kinds of uses than the designers
could ever have imagined.

The real reason is that, overall, it is a marvel of mechanical engineering.
There's a lot of talk about torque and how the Vestax design meets or
exceeds the Technics, but what you don't hear about is that delicate
balance between torque, starting speed and platter weight that distinguishes
the 1200 from all other turntables.  This is what makes the 1200 a musical
instrument, at least in a secondary way, as compared to a mere audio
reproduction device.

The 1200 has its share of faults -- everyone hates the placement of the
on-off switch, and the little pop-up light, which requires something
approaching knee surgery to fix, is useful but the lights are difficult
and expensive to replace.  I've found almost universally that, when pitched
off the 0% locked pitch position, they spin just a little faster after
being stopped and restarted.  And rotation speeds are very consistent
over most of the pitch range but vary noticeably once you get above +/- 6%.

And don't even get me started about how they rip off customers on
replacement parts like covers.  Last I checked, it was $45 per HINGE on
those covers!

The 1200 has a number of clever design features that go almost unnoticed.
And there is a consistency of materials and construction that's always
evident.  Even beat-up club 1200s are pretty reliable.  

The 1200 was first marketed to some degree as an audiophile turntable,
since it evolved out of the high-end Technics line of the day.  It was
hardly then and certainly not now a true audiophile unit.  Just the
rumble figures alone would scare the average reader of Absolute Sound.
But we're not here to talk about playing 180 gram virgin vinyl on $6,000
turntables.  You laugh!  But take a look:

http://www.audiocircuit.com/9150-turntable-circuit/Commercial/Nottingham%20Analogue-
NOT/9150CMNOT.htm

Besides, the 1200 rumble adds the distinctive je-ne-sais-quoi to a
really good bassline playing on a Really Big Sound System.

I've seen 1200s that ran daily for 10 years without a hitch, although
you can tell the pitch controls are ral loose!  I've seen them
indoors in all kinds of situations including on stages that bounced
like trampolines, outdoors on the beach and in the hills, and they are 
almost if not quite indestructible.  

I've seen DJs do all kinds of crazy things with 1200s, not just
backspins, platter twists and what have you.  Not even Rotator plumbed
the depths of what a 1200 can do.  If you watch enough DJs over the years, 
you'll be surprised at how many different ways there are to play.  There 
is great versatility built into its somewhat simple and otherwise 
nondescript design.  

I'm not always a believer in the standard equipment in a given field.  
I use the Opera browser instead of Internet Explorer, and have never worn 
a pair of Nike shoes even though Portland where I live is Niketown.

But the 1200 deserves its place as *the* standard DJ turntable.

Fred

RE: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)

Oh, and when you're rocking the track backwards, it's effectively pushing
the needle into the vinyl more than going forwards (which is more drag).

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Rc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 20:56
 To: 313
 Subject: Re: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)


 while we are kinda on topic.I wanted to ask about vinyl burning and
 stylii

 if you've got old styliil can they damage your wax?

 I was playing around with two copies and repeating the intro for
 ages...and
 then when I played the same record the next day the intro was all staticy
 and defintely sounded damaged. is this vinyl burn? on some
 stylli/cartridge
 ads they talk about this 'vinyl burn'.can old needles damage your wax?

 rc

 on 21/11/02 7:18 AM, Jonny McIntosh at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still
 unable to see
  it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
  point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all
 records are
  unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch
 control: it's a
  lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
  actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not
 suggesting you do
  have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you
 need to be at
  plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not
 claiming there's any
  more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the
 impression of
  suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my
 mistake. My last
  post on this.
 
  Take care,
 
  J R McIntosh ;)

RE: (313) re: best decks

Had a play along time ago on a set of gold-plated Technics. The shop keeper
wasn't too happy when I put 5-pence pieces on the back of the carts tho.

I think they were something to do with their anniversary (mid-90's).

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Fred Heutte [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 20:34
 To: 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks


 I know, I've given this speech before.

 It's more or less an accident of history that the Technics 1200 founded
 the modern DJ age and continues to be the standard turntable.  It's
 certainly been put to far more different kinds of uses than the designers
 could ever have imagined.

 The real reason is that, overall, it is a marvel of mechanical
 engineering.
 There's a lot of talk about torque and how the Vestax design meets or
 exceeds the Technics, but what you don't hear about is that delicate
 balance between torque, starting speed and platter weight that
 distinguishes
 the 1200 from all other turntables.  This is what makes the 1200 a musical
 instrument, at least in a secondary way, as compared to a mere audio
 reproduction device.

 The 1200 has its share of faults -- everyone hates the placement of the
 on-off switch, and the little pop-up light, which requires something
 approaching knee surgery to fix, is useful but the lights are difficult
 and expensive to replace.  I've found almost universally that,
 when pitched
 off the 0% locked pitch position, they spin just a little faster after
 being stopped and restarted.  And rotation speeds are very consistent
 over most of the pitch range but vary noticeably once you get
 above +/- 6%.

 And don't even get me started about how they rip off customers on
 replacement parts like covers.  Last I checked, it was $45 per HINGE on
 those covers!

 The 1200 has a number of clever design features that go almost unnoticed.
 And there is a consistency of materials and construction that's always
 evident.  Even beat-up club 1200s are pretty reliable.

 The 1200 was first marketed to some degree as an audiophile turntable,
 since it evolved out of the high-end Technics line of the day.  It was
 hardly then and certainly not now a true audiophile unit.  Just the
 rumble figures alone would scare the average reader of Absolute Sound.
 But we're not here to talk about playing 180 gram virgin vinyl on $6,000
 turntables.  You laugh!  But take a look:

 http://www.audiocircuit.com/9150-turntable-circuit/Commercial/Nott
ingham%20Analogue-
NOT/9150CMNOT.htm

Besides, the 1200 rumble adds the distinctive je-ne-sais-quoi to a
really good bassline playing on a Really Big Sound System.

I've seen 1200s that ran daily for 10 years without a hitch, although
you can tell the pitch controls are ral loose!  I've seen them
indoors in all kinds of situations including on stages that bounced
like trampolines, outdoors on the beach and in the hills, and they are
almost if not quite indestructible.

I've seen DJs do all kinds of crazy things with 1200s, not just
backspins, platter twists and what have you.  Not even Rotator plumbed
the depths of what a 1200 can do.  If you watch enough DJs over the years,
you'll be surprised at how many different ways there are to play.  There
is great versatility built into its somewhat simple and otherwise
nondescript design.

I'm not always a believer in the standard equipment in a given field.
I use the Opera browser instead of Internet Explorer, and have never worn
a pair of Nike shoes even though Portland where I live is Niketown.

But the 1200 deserves its place as *the* standard DJ turntable.

Fred

Re: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)

2002-11-20 Thread dan

I've found that you always get this with certain qualities of vinyl, 
except with Shure's wonderful M447s, which I can't praise enough. The 
villains of the piece are definitely the Stanton 500als, which 
basically cane vinyl in a horrifying way - though there's always 
those little battery powered bus/car things that drive round your 
record with a little speaker on their back, don't ever use these if 
you want to listen to the record again.


Through collecting old vinyl I've noticed that the quality of the 
vinyl varies a lot with economic circumstances. e.g. during the 70's 
and the oil crisis pressings became a lot thinner and peeps came up 
with silly ideas like RCA's shonky 'Dynaflex' pressings. These thin 
pressings, or worse still the ones pressed on adulterated vinyl, seem 
to be particularly prone to needle burn.


A bit OT I'm afraid (especially for a first posting - please be 
gentle) but Richard started it.


Dan



while we are kinda on topic.I wanted to ask about vinyl burning and
stylii

if you've got old styliil can they damage your wax?

I was playing around with two copies and repeating the intro for ages...and
then when I played the same record the next day the intro was all staticy
and defintely sounded damaged. is this vinyl burn? on some stylli/cartridge
ads they talk about this 'vinyl burn'.can old needles damage your wax?

rc

on 21/11/02 7:18 AM, Jonny McIntosh at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still unable to see
 it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
 point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all records are
 unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch control: it's a
 lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
 actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not suggesting you do
 have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you need to be at
 plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not claiming there's any
 more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the impression of
 suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my mistake. My last
 post on this.

 Take care,

 J R McIntosh ;)

Re: (313) re: best decks

- Original Message -
From: Craig Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

 Had a play along time ago on a set of gold-plated Technics. The shop
keeper
 wasn't too happy when I put 5-pence pieces on the back of the carts tho.

 I think they were something to do with their anniversary (mid-90's).

Were they black as well? I seem to recall seeing some gold plated 1210's
when they first came out. I think it was some kind of promotion or limited
edition, as you say.

Tristan
=
Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

RE: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)

2002-11-20 Thread Josh Garrett

I heard this fantastic 3-way battery powered bus quick-mix set once, but it
ended after in a horrible trainwreck when the DJ didn't look both ways at a
rail crossing.

http://www.osk.3web.ne.jp/~vacuum05/vinyl.html

J

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 1:30 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)


I've found that you always get this with certain qualities of vinyl, 
except with Shure's wonderful M447s, which I can't praise enough. The 
villains of the piece are definitely the Stanton 500als, which 
basically cane vinyl in a horrifying way - though there's always 
those little battery powered bus/car things that drive round your 
record with a little speaker on their back, don't ever use these if 
you want to listen to the record again.

Through collecting old vinyl I've noticed that the quality of the 
vinyl varies a lot with economic circumstances. e.g. during the 70's 
and the oil crisis pressings became a lot thinner and peeps came up 
with silly ideas like RCA's shonky 'Dynaflex' pressings. These thin 
pressings, or worse still the ones pressed on adulterated vinyl, seem 
to be particularly prone to needle burn.

A bit OT I'm afraid (especially for a first posting - please be 
gentle) but Richard started it.

Dan


while we are kinda on topic.I wanted to ask about vinyl burning and
stylii

if you've got old styliil can they damage your wax?

I was playing around with two copies and repeating the intro for ages...and
then when I played the same record the next day the intro was all staticy
and defintely sounded damaged. is this vinyl burn? on some stylli/cartridge
ads they talk about this 'vinyl burn'.can old needles damage your wax?

rc

on 21/11/02 7:18 AM, Jonny McIntosh at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  OK. If I've misread I apologise, though I'll confess I'm still unable to
see
  it when I read your emails. That's not reading between lines :) Just one
  point, I'm sure you *can* play unknown records on the fly: all records
are
  unknown at some point. That's precisely my point about pitch control:
it's a
  lot easier. If it isn't your bag, then fair enough. I don't think we
  actually disagree there, given my misreading. And I'm not suggesting you
do
  have to do it all the time. As Neil pointed out to me, if you need to be
at
  plus 8, you're going to have to use your hands. I'm not claiming there's
any
  more merit in it than as a general approach. If I've given the
impression of
  suggesting people must mix in one way then that'll be my mistake. My
last
  post on this.

  Take care,

  J R McIntosh ;)

RE: (313) re: best decks

http://www.homedj.co.uk/Images/Product/Technics/Decks/sl1200ltd.gif

Sexay. :)

Dscaper
--
Aeonflux Radio - http://www.aeonflux.co.uk
A man who know's what he knows, and knows what he doesn't know, is the sign
of a man who knows.


 -Original Message-
 From: Tristan Watkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 20 November 2002 21:52
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fred Heutte; 313@hyperreal.org
 Subject: Re: (313) re: best decks


 - Original Message -
 From: Craig Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Fred Heutte [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
 Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:07 PM
 Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks


  Had a play along time ago on a set of gold-plated Technics. The shop
 keeper
  wasn't too happy when I put 5-pence pieces on the back of the carts tho.
 
  I think they were something to do with their anniversary (mid-90's).

 Were they black as well? I seem to recall seeing some gold plated 1210's
 when they first came out. I think it was some kind of promotion or limited
 edition, as you say.

 Tristan
 =
 Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
 Music: http://www.mp313.com
 Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
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Re: (313) re: best decks

- Original Message -
From: Cyborg K [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:39 PM
Subject: RE: (313) re: best decks

 Do you think it's possible to beat match as fast using the pitch slider as
 using your hands?

 If one is quick mixing this would be an issue...  I personally probably
use
 my hands more than I should, that is just how I have taught myself, I find
 if I nudge the pitch slider forward extra to correct for the actual tempo
 difference+the amount the records are off beat, I have a hard time finding
 the exact spot again (which would be just slightly removed from the
original
 position)...

Dave,

I really liked how Scotto just explained this learning curve when converting
to pitch mixing. The thing is, if you are well practiced (and in practice,
and *on*), these fine adjustments seem like less of an issue. You will
develop a habit of perpetually riding the pitch when you need to, so that
fine adjustments are simply a part of being in the mix, and theoretically,
they are imperceptible. Your (re)actions anticipate the drift of the record;
your hand on the pitch is an extension of your ear. Sorry to get all 'hokey'
about it, but that's how it works when you're executing well. I guess it
should be mentioned (if it isn't already clear), that this drastically
improves the chances of a really smooth mix versus touching a record,
particularly if there are any sustained tones like strings, which will
noticably 'dip' in pitch when you touch the record, no matter how well you
conceal touching your record on the last 16th note of the 8th bar (or
whenever)... To get that kind of 'dip' using the pitch slider, you need to
give it a pretty severe jerk.

I really hope I'm not coming across as preachy, I'm just trying to clarify
the 'how' of this technique, since it's a different mindset than touching
records, and it's obvious that not everyone has messed around with it enough
to know all the in's and out's. I think there are distinct advantages to
this aproach and I'm trying my best to explain why I see them that way,
without trying to claim it's the absolute best way to do things. I still
adjust with my hands when I need to, I just try not to.

Tristan
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Text/Mixes: http://phonopsia.tripod.com
Music: http://www.mp313.com
Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

New Mix in mp3, 'Live in Iowa City' available for
a short time from http://phonopsia.isoprax.com

Re: (313) vinyl burn (was re: best decks)