Re: (313) FW: Market elec music vs educate (Was: Electronic music culture in America)
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My high school used to offer classes in electronic music. This was back in.oh, 1986. We used Sequential Circuit Pro One synths and recorded to 4 track reel-to-reel. Learned all about FM synthesis. Best class in high school ever. I doubt they still offer it. wow. that's got to be the earliest i've heard of something like that. but if you want the youngsters to get it, you've got to go with the kids. Apple is doing something very very similar with the ipods. Folks even MY age are very reluctant to switch. They are a lost cause. Give the kids ipods...and they're going to want the laptops...then they'll want the desktops. they've already seen a significant spike in their laptop purchases. Building a market for electronic music, or even for Leftist/Progressive politics, will take the same type of thing. peace lks
Re: (313) FW: Market elec music vs educate (Was: Electronic music culture in America)
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Redmond, Ja'Maul wrote: If you wanted to reach a younger, less-educated crowd with the intention of giving them some insight in the history of the music, how would you go about? John I would establish ties with the local high school, and convince them to set up a shop elective in electronic music. peace lks
Re: (313) Electronic music culture in America
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Tosh Cooey wrote: All the North Americans I know who have been over to Europe in the last year keep saying the same thing over and over, that electronic music culture in America is dying. No clubs, all the smaller cities are non-existent for a DJ/live performance, etc. how true is this? Hm. I don't think this is exactly right. It depends how you measure it. People now have more access to create electronic music spaces than they EVER had even five yeears ago. What? Garage band and a hip-hop jam pack for only 150.00? Traktor's DJ Suite running only a few hundred bucks? Access to literally hundreds of hours of helluva DJ sets over the net? But there is growing reason to suspect that this doesn't translate into strong LOCAL cultures. I have seen some evidence via some of the labels I work with having trouble setting up tours that get outside of New York, Chicago, San Fran/LA. Is it really that bad? What would some of the reasons be? How would this be connected to the previous discussion about techno not selling? I missed that discussion--popping in and out you know. But i think that in order to really deal with this in some depth we have to understand the movement of capital and people across time and space and how that impacts listening preferences, purchasing preferences, and local club dynamics. and on top of that we have to grapple with the fundamental fact that we are growing older. when i first got on this list i was in my mid twenties with the world in front of me. now i'm in my mid thirties with a growing family that keeps on growing. much harder to go clubbing. as far as moving capital and people, here's one way to think about it. i'm a house/techno head. i'm in saint louis. i've got an opportunity to go to the dc area because i have skills (not in house/techno, but in some other area). do i stay in saint louis? or do i go to dc? if most heads have these types of options...if most djs have these types of options...then over time what will happen is that there will be a few STRONG areas (detroit, chicago, etc.), and other much weaker areas. and as the people with the skills are able to travel farther and farther (and the comparison is now between london and dc rather than between saint louis and dc), the number of cities grows smaller, and the local culture becomes more and more intimate. lks
Re: (313) slsk ppl
i'm boombip.
(313) from mindjack
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 Hip-Hop Atoms For the first time, a team of physicists of the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has controlled the movement of a single atom back and forth between neighboring locations on a crystal. This will allow to build nanoscale devices atom by atom. Not happy enough with this technological breakthrough, the NIST team also discovered that the atoms were 'noisy' when moving on the crystal surface. They converted the electronic signals emitted by the atoms into audio ones and they were quite surprised to hear something similar to a 'hip-hop' musician's rhythmic 'scratching'. http://mindjack.com/relay (as an aside i wanted to resend what i wrote when i first heard of laura's passing. couldn't find it. suffice it to say that i never met laura offline but always appreciated her willingness to fight for detroit. our numbers are growing...in part due to her efforts.) peace (now from BALTIMORE) lks
(313) track id soulful moaner
you...you're the quiet shy type. Me?...I'm a soulful moaner... track id?
RE: (313) Techno Films
Enemy of the State The Spook Who Sat By The Door Mantis (the tv pilot) Blade The Matrix series (would've been hands down the best techno film of all time if Will Smith would've taken the role of Neo like he was offered) Anti-techno films Terminator 2
Re: (313) strings of life rmx.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: do you mean 'strings of the strings of life' which is on the innovator comp.? i was listening to it on the weekend and thought it would sound great with a kick under it - and was planning to do that as a test to see what the program 'garage band' (that came with osx)could do. james www.jbucknell.com I think that is it. Let me know when you do, and how it sounds. peace lks
Re: (313) strings of life rmx.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004, ryan burns wrote: dancetracks.com has a remix of strings of life i have never heard before. its in the techno section of the site. this remix is either on RELICS or on Derrick May's Japan release. It's probably on another cd too. i like it, but the kick is taken away
(313) for sicko
send me an email when you get a chance. i'm working on an academic treatment of the scene, and have questions about class and the early social clubs.
Re: (313) Chicago honours Frankie Knuckles
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Check this out! http://deephousepage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=013745 That woud never happen in England! This is absolutely GREAT news. One thing to remember though--this type of event doesn't just happen. It CAN BE(and in the case of dead geezers like Ronald Reagan often IS) a response to political pressure. I would imagine something like this COULD happen in England, if folks were tactical and strategic. peace lks
RE: (313) Chicago honours Frankie Knuckles
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Robert Taylor wrote: I doubt it - UK only has commercial days like 'eating apples day' and such like - there's not much interest in naming days after people, though there seems to be a habit of naming public buildings after local politicians and sportsmen, as well as international political figures such as Nelson Mandela. So here's the process in Saint Louis and Detroit. Someone contacts a councilperson to draft a resolution saying this day is so and so's day. They send it up to the council and it passes (usually unanimously). Then the mayor drafts a document for the interested parties saying i'm glad to announce that this day is so and so's day. Streets? A bit more complicated. I would imagine that zoning boards might have to be involved. But again with a dedicated group of citizens it could be done here. What's the process in the UK?
RE: (313) Chicago honours Frankie Knuckles
On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's the process in the UK? Not too sure Lester. I guess 'local' government (e.g. city/county councils - elected on a local basis) decide street names and what have you. And these local entities are pushable. More pushable perhaps than we might think. I guess Chicago's authorities are similar to what we call 'local councils' yes. As Rob mentioned, we don't really have national days like this so much. Do you mean local days? Maybe our 'establishment' is a bit old school for all this kind of stuff. Wasn't there a thing in Detroit and the mayor became known as The Hip Hop Mayor or something as his views were seen to be angled towards youth culture or something? Yep. A marketing slogan more than anything else. and also Robs pretty bang on with this comment I'd say I've no idea but I am sure backhanders and cronyism are involved somewhere in the process. although I guess its the same for you guys. maybe? Oh HELL yes. They used to have a saying in Chicago. Vote early, and vote OFTEN. peace lks
Re: (313) Shootings at the fireworks?
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and the Metro Times wonders why Movement isn't financially successful. Earth to the city of Detroit: to attract tourism dollars, you have to provide a safe environment, easy transportation, and places for people to spend those dollars. Festival shootings, con-artist cabbies, shady hotels, and a shuttered downtown -- especially when there's 300,000 thirsty partygoers just across Jefferson -- do not provide an environment that many are willing to return to. Lineup announcement be damned; THIS is what people are concerned about when they consider travelling to Detroit. How many times have incidents like this happened in the last fifteen years at the Freedom Festival? How many people have attended the Freedom Festival (and the DEMF) over the last several years? lks
(313) FW: Support for Theresa Hill of 90.9FM (fwd)
Theresa Hill, to my knowledge, is one of the most significant radio personalities on the air in Detroit as far as supporting house and techno. Though the most important issue (the corporate jacking of local media) is not touched below, I think it is still important to support the heads when we can. peace lks p.s. i wasn't able to make the demf this year for a number of reasons. but i've been thinking about the politics and economics of techno as it relates to detroit. i'll write something longer later. maybe MUCH later. Subject: Support for Theresa Hill of 90.9FM Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 20:11:07 EDT Everyone, It saddens me to write this E Mail. I know that you love and support 90.9FM WDTR as much as we the producers love providing you with great music the whole family can listen to. It appears as of July 1st, 90.9 WDTR will no longer exists as you know it. We have not been informed of who is taking over the station or what the format will be, but I do know that it will be a sad day in Detroit Radio. My plan was to go off the air as of June 25th, but so many listeners are asking me to stay until June 30th that I'm strongly considering that. This has been a very emotional time for me because my show The After School Groove is like my baby that I gave birth to and now someone wants to take my child from me. I have been in prayer about the station's situation and the bottom line is Let God's Will Be Done!!! With that being said, I need your support. I'm going to shop my show to the commercial stations. I need for you all to come out and support my weekly event at The Bat on the corner of Gratiot and Brush every Friday.(See info below) __ The voice of electronic and house music in Detroit, THERESA HILL of 90.9FM WDTR and Events@ presents PROJECT 81 every Friday at THE BAT on the corner of Gratiot Brush in Downtown Detroit from 9:00pm until 2:00am. $5.00 b/f 10:00pm and $10.00 after 10.00pm Beats pounded through you by master Friday resident Al Ester and guests. Dress to sweat.House music CD's for sale every Friday. Come and get your weekly dose of great house / techno and old school music. ___ If you wish to continue to hear the music I played during my radio show, I will be playing at The Bat every Friday from 9-11pm. I need you to come out and support because I will be inviting people from the commercial stations to this weekly event and once they see how much Detroit loves this music, I should have an easier time getting on at a commercial station. If you can't come every Friday, then pick two Fridays out of the month to come and show your support. I NEED YOUR SUPPORT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN!! To show my appreciation for your support and listenership, the first 81 people to come to The Bat on June 25th by 11:00pm with this E Mail will receive a FREE HOUSE MUSIC CD from one of the parties at The Bat by AL ESTER!!! Again, thank you for your love and support. Peace be with you always, Theresa Hill 90.9 FM WDTR P.S. Please foward this E Mail to everyone!! Thanks!! : -) _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
(313) clubsounds.com and movement
i think it's been playing havoc with my version of netscape...but i've been able to listen to the festival perfectly from my home. i called one of my boys during tp's set (i think) and the beats (the ones i heard through the phone and the ones i heard from my computer upstairs) were in perfect sync. but more important than that, i was able to feel the vibe even though i was a few hundred miles away. i danced for about a half hour with my two year old daughter and was able to work up a sweat even. they are BANGING. peace lks
Re: (313) the future
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: whatever happened to the future? did it become an outdated concept? as I sat watching Matthew Herbert and his bag of crisps band last night, I realised I was watching a 50 year old (at least) show. then, I thought, all the bands I've seen lately have harked to the past, really heavily. All the records I buy are obsessed with the past, or are old. even techno isn't futuristic any more. Jeff Mills scores films from the '20's, Red Planet titles are all about native american indian issues, instead of sex in zero gravity or journey to the martian polar cap.. There's no time, space, transmat business anymore. I mean, even the word transmat was made up wasn't it? No one does that any more, there's no dreamers left, just flippin' historians. so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more? William Gibson argues that science fiction has become extremely difficult to write now largely because the current society accelerates so quickly that it becomes very very difficult to project. Anyone read BURNING CHROME lately? A lot of that stuff is now science FACT, right? What is Neal Stephenson of SNOW CRASH fame working on right now? His latest magnum opus is the Baroque Cycle, comprised of QUICKSILVER, THE CONFUSION, and another work whose title escapes me. The subject? Among other things, how the enlightenment changed civilization. I still consider it science fiction, but there's not a bit of future stuff in it. I think techno is trying to move forward by moving backward in the same way. peace lks
Re: (313) black science fiction
delany noted that DHALGREN as a place was based on the bombed out riot torn cities of the late sixties. he wanted to evoke that feel, that sense of time and spacelessness. i wouldn't be surprised if he had detroit in mind. i never did finish the book... but octavia butler, and steven barnes are other excellent sf writers. i haven't come across any that feel like techno though. On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Kent williams wrote: Walter Mosley Blue Light On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: for sci-fi by a black author, i cant say enough good things about samuel delany's dhalgren. i even suspect the city is at least somewhat based on detroit because they mention other local midwest cities and dont mention it. great book, and not really strictly future related
Re: RE: (313) Detroit schools to cut 3,200 jobs
On Mon, 5 Apr 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Relating this to the music - I can only wonder what kind of sounds we'll hear coming from those who grow up live in these conditions. gun shots? the sound of jail cells filling up? the sound of babies crying? just some of my guesses What sounds did we hear in the thirties when black people were lynched at a rate of almost one a day? When places like Parchman would open the floodgates for prisoners whenever the planters needed more workers? What sounds did we hear in the eighties in places like Detroit, Queens, and Miami, when Reagan's budget slashed federal assistance to cities? When music programs pretty much disappeared from urban public schools? Black men and women have ALWAYS produced beauty in the face of chaos. The real question is how can those of us with technical skill actually impart some of these skills to kids to help them make the transformation that folks like TP, Mills, and others made. A couple of people here sent an email a few years ago about an idea they had--to actually teach detroit kids how to make electronic music, and how to dj. I asked them if I could share their idea with the mayors folks, and they told me no because they wanted to try to do it themselves. I wonder whether they are still sitting on the idea? (As an aside, as far as I know May, Saunderson, and Atkins didn't ATTEND detroit public schools.) peace lks
Re: (313) movement accomodation etc
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, diana potts wrote: if alll y'all are going to be eating that %$# before partying, i'll be holding the phone to call 911...but I'm _not_ holding back your hair. i'll keep that in mind. but for some reason i don't think that'll be a problem. :) lks
RE: (313) Detroit equipment (was do you*)
the dx100? that's the OLD school keyboard right? On Tue, 9 Mar 2004, Peteri, Jochem wrote: yamaha dx100, roland juno106 or try an sp1200 and act like theo ; ) -Original Message- From: Quest Pond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: dinsdag 9 maart 2004 15:14 To: robin; Peteri, Jochem Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Detroit equipment (was do you*) I beg to differ in you saying 727 is OT . I think what you are mentioning is the true essence of detroit music- Classics like roland 101,303,808, 909 and 727. I noticed on that interview with Carl Craig he talks about his first track and how he only used alesis mmt8 and prophet 600 to knock it together, i though this interesting. I noticed nice pics of most of this equipment in the submerge museum thingy, So im taking it this is Detroit related thread. Any other Detroit equipment i don't know about? Quest Pond -Original Message- From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 10 March 2004 1:04 AM To: Peteri, Jochem Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) Do You Know Who You Are (was RE: (313) what's your favorite track/album right now?) the 727 and the rz1 are both big faves of mine...(then again i just love any kinda drum machine) i guess we're kinda heading off topic now :) robin... Peteri, Jochem wrote: That 727 is classic, it´s one of those machines i´ll always keep hooked up in the studio. Another Chicago track I'd suggest as something to bridge the gap is Essence Of A Dream by K-Alexi - very Detroit strings on that one, and the TR-727 Latin Module drum machine on there is definitely more of a Detroit sound than a Chicago sound. Brendan The information contained in this e-mail communication is solely intended for the person/legal person to whom it has been sent, and as it may contain information of a personal or confidential nature, it may not be made public by virtue of law, regulations or agreement. If someone other than the intended recipient should receive or come into possession of this e-mail communication, he/she will not be entitled to read, disseminate, disclose or duplicate it. If you are not the intended recipient, you are requested to inform the sender of this e-mail message of this immediately, and to destroy the original e-mail communication. Neither Randstad Holding nv nor its subsidiaries accept any liability for incorrect and incomplete transmission or delayed receipt of this e-mail. The information contained in this e-mail communication is solely intended for the person/legal person to whom it has been sent, and as it may contain information of a personal or confidential nature, it may not be made public by virtue of law, regulations or agreement. If someone other than the intended recipient should receive or come into possession of this e-mail communication, he/she will not be entitled to read, disseminate, disclose or duplicate it. If you are not the intended recipient, you are requested to inform the sender of this e-mail message of this immediately, and to destroy the original e-mail communication. Neither Randstad Holding nv nor its subsidiaries accept any liability for incorrect and incomplete transmission or delayed receipt of this e-mail.
Re: (313) what you listening to right now?
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, robin wrote: ok quiet list. what you listening to right now? I'm listening to Bush's 2004 State of the Union Address, getting ready to teach my first Public Opinion class of the term. Phat beats of ANY SORT would be much better fare. peace lks
(313) Saunderson and Disney
I was watching Pixel Perfect today (a new made for tv movie on the disney channel), and I heard Saunderson's Forcefield (i think it was Forcefield) about 2/3 of the way through it, uncredited. I'm guessing because these songs are produced by independent labels it happens often?
RE: (313) what i'm listening to now
It IS isn't it? Since I've found it I've been pretty much listening to it nonstop. Not familiar with the dj but he's got skills. lks On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Robert Taylor wrote: This is very very good! Nice track selection -Original Message- From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 5:38 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) what i'm listening to now http://www.kimppu.org/satte/mp3/dj_ken-guru_-_deckhouse_street.mp3 73 hot minutes. peace lks # Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. #
(313) what i'm listening to now
http://www.kimppu.org/satte/mp3/dj_ken-guru_-_deckhouse_street.mp3 73 hot minutes. peace lks
RE: (313) Re: hey ya?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Brendan Nelson wrote: -Original Message- From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 21 December 2003 06:50 There's been some attempt to actually test this empiricallyto see whether exposure to rap music (or other aggressive art forms like heavy metal) has an impact on how people think and behave. there's some tentative support for the relationship. people listening to violent hip hop are more likely to support violence as a means of conflict resolution than people listening to non-violent hiphop. The question is, though, does their tendency to support violence as a means of conflict resolution influence their musical tastes towards violent hip-hop, or has that tendency only come about as a result of their exposure to violent hip-hop? It's a bit of a chicken'n'egg question I suppose. Not in this casethe power of the experiment is that you're able to ferrett out the causal element. This is the way it works. Take a population of subjects and split them in two (or three, four, etc.) such that if you compare the resulting groups to each other, there is no substantive difference. There aren't more women than men, there aren't significant income differences, etc. Then you expose one group to one set of stimuli, and expose the other group to some sort of placebo. The difference in the response to the dependent variable HAS to come from exposure to the stimuli. So if the groups are the same in the hiphop experiment I note above, then the only reason the one group prefers violent conflict resolution is because there is something about what they were exposed to that CAUSES them to. peace lks
(313) was HEY YA now EXPERIMENTAL METHODOLOGY
(how many on this list ever thought they'd see that subject heading here???) On Mon, 22 Dec 2003, Brendan Nelson wrote: It's a bit of a chicken'n'egg question I suppose. Not in this casethe power of the experiment is that you're able to ferrett out the causal element... Take a population of subjects and split them in two (or three, four, etc.) such that if you compare the resulting groups to each other, there is no substantive difference. There aren't more women than men, there aren't significant income differences, etc. Then you expose one group to one set of stimuli, and expose the other group to some sort of placebo. The difference in the response to the dependent variable HAS to come from exposure to the stimuli. There are a lot of problems with an experiment like that, though, IMHO. First off, the test subjects would almost certainly arrive having already developed attitudes towards both violent hip-hop and violence as a means of conflict resolution, which I think could skew the results significantly. Let's say that men are more likely to have developed attitudes in favor of violence, and women are in the opposite direction. All you have to do is control for gender (or other theoretical relationships that might cause problems) in the analysis. Unless your theory is underspecified, you should be ok. Second off, you wouldn't be accurately recreating the way in which people listen to music - you may end up proving, for example, that spending ten minutes listening to violent hip-hop in a controlled environment doesn't make you more prone to being violent, but I'd be dubious about that conclusion applying to people who listen to violent hip-hop for years and years in various emotional states. You can setup the environment to match a general listening one. The room doesn't have to be anti-sceptic (for example), but your long term comment is on the money. While in my case I don't think I'd be making any type of long term claim, I do think you could get around this too by specifically recruiting HEADS. Come to think of it, this type of thing could be very interesting. I've always wondered why, for example, I've NEVER seen a fight at a house music set. (Well...I've seen ONE. I was at a house party in Detroit where a couple of japanese women started to fightbut that don't count!) ;) Is it because of predispositions that house heads already have? Is it instead the soothing nature of the music itself? So if the groups are the same in the hiphop experiment I note above, then the only reason the one group prefers violent conflict resolution is because there is something about what they were exposed to that CAUSES them to. But you could well find that some in the group always preferred violent conflict resolution and did so even before they heard violent hip-hop. Wouldn't that screw things up a bit? Now ANOTHER way of getting around this is to have a pre and a post-test. So instead of just comparing group A to group B, you are comparing group A at time 1 to group A at time 2. so you can then see whether listening to violent music increases one's own PERSONAL preference for violence as a means of conflict resolution. Sorry for going so off-topic! But I'm suddenly bizarrely fascinated by the idea of this experiment :) It IS interesting to think about innit? peace lks
Re: (313) was HEY YA now EXPERIMENTAL METHODOLOGY
(ok. this is substantial drift...but i'm assuming that given the header, anyone who reads this is interested in the subject [and probably off his/her rocker but that's ok *smile*]) On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Sven Venema wrote: Okay, attribution wise I'm kinda lost.. but SOMEONE said... :) Not in this casethe power of the experiment is that you're able to ferrett out the causal element... Take a population of subjects and split them in two (or three, four, etc.) such that if you compare the resulting groups to each other, there is no substantive difference. There aren't more women than men, there aren't significant income differences, etc. Then you expose one group to one set of stimuli, and expose the other group to some sort of placebo. The difference in the response to the dependent variable HAS to come from exposure to the stimuli. Not a flame, just a comment: The idea that the difference in response HAS to come from exposure to stimuli, and that you could find groups of people who have no substantive difference seems a little simplistic to me. IMHO this approach is probably not generally applicable to humans. It seems that humans (from an outsider's point of view) have a penchant for acting on impulse or whim. Even though someone's actions may be entirely consistent within their own internal framework, those actions may seem irrational to an outside observer. I'm not sure that it's possible to define a 'standard' human being, let alone bring together a group of these standard human beings against which responses can be measured. Sven In the aggregate it is very applicable to humans. The key here is replication. If what you're saying is correct...that humans (in the aggregate) are prone to responding on a whim, then my experimental results wouldn't be replicable. That is, the first time I do this experiment with group A then I'll get one result, then the next time I do it, I'll get another result, then the third time I'd do it I'll get yet another result. The results would be random and totally unpredictable. But this isn't what happens. For example, in experiment after experiment, it's been shown that white americans exposed to stories about welfare (accompanied by an image of a black woman) are far more prone to say poverty is the individuals fault and that we shouldn't do anything to help the poor than white americans exposed to stories about welfare (accompanied by an image of a white woman). If what you say is true, then we wouldn't get consistent results over time and space here. So while your general point is correct--and it is important to say that I'm talking about groups of people, not individuals--I think there is enough consistency to think about experiments as a solid research tool that can be used to explain and predict human activity. peace lks
Re: (313) Re: hey ya?
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Kent williams wrote: I didn't mean to dog anyone in the discussion for being white and daring to discuss the issue, if that's the impression I gave. I just think there's a discussion to be had, placing misogyny in hip hop lyrics in the context of the unique problems facing black americans -- too many men in jail, too many women raising kids alone, negative images reflected back from the dominant culture, etc, etc. But such a discussion is probably better left to people who know those things first hand. I understand what you're saying Kentand to a certain extent I agree. BUT the extreme is keeping it real right? In order to talk about X you have to be able to experience X. I don't think I should have to take meth to say meth has bad consequences. When I think about these issues this is what I try to keep in mind. *As African Americans live in the American context, it is important that we keep in mind the impact that larger processes that impact ALL Americans influence them. So here we're talking about the commodification of women largely for the purpose of profit that has the added benefit of keeping women subjugated. This dynamic isn't unique to African Americans, but is part and parcel of the larger American culture. Take a look at a Victoria Secret ad that 25 years ago could've never made it to the screen. *While popular music is considered to be the raw undiluted voice of the young (and in hip-hop's case the black young), popular music is SOLD AND MARKETED. Chuck D. said that rap is black America's CNN. He's both right and wrong. Rap is not news. It is entertainment. Rap isn't an undiluted image of what is really going on in black communities whether they be working class, or blueblood. But in as much as CNN's news is itself highly packaged and marketed, rap too has been niched in order to sell product. I'm working on a book about youth and politics in American cities, and I'm including a substantive section on pop culture (hiphop). Thinking about this in depth I'm realizing that it just isn't possible to refer to hiphop as an artform without taking the political economy of it into consideration. There is a REASON why my students know that 50 Cent has been shot nine times. And it has nothing to do with truth telling. *While African Americans are indeed Americans, they also serve as America's Other. In the past, miners used canaries as an early warning system. The gases the miners had the most to fear were both odorless and invisible. The only way they would know whether the gas was present was by the behavior of the canary. When the canary keeled over...the miners broke camp. Black people (and other people of color) serve as America's canary. The fault lines in the American project usually become most visible in these communities. But rather than taking the troubles of black people and using them to predict, contain, and cure problems of the wider community, a very different route is taken. These troubles are used to sell black product for the culture mill, and at the same time are used to further justify black exclusion. Just trying to keep these three ideas (blacks are american, blacks are the other, pop music is an economic product) in my head simultaneously is a difficult feat. but suffice it to say that because of these dynamics I'm willing to bet that the following assertions hold true about misogyny in hiphop: 1. Misogyny in hip-hop is a hyperextension rather than an accurate reflection of misogyny in black life. 2. Misogyny in hip-hop may be more pervasive than misogyny in rock...depending on how we are measuring it. 3. The social ills impacting black men in America are beginning to impact their white counterparts. So in as much as #2 holds true, I don't expect it to hold true for long. peace lks p.s. I apologize for the length of this post. I'm trying to get into work mode. Got a lot of work to do on this late saturday evening. p.p.s. I blog about these and other related issues at Visioncircle.org and given the length of this post I'll probably put it there. And one last thing to mention -- there was a radio station in Oregon who was fined by the FCC for playing DJ Vadim Sarah Jones' track Your Revolution which was actually a critique of misogyny in hip hop! The fine was eventually appealed and reversed, but it's ironic that they got in trouble, not for playing thuggish tracks, but for a song OPPOSED to thuggish tracks. What message is that sending? On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Cyclone Louise Wehner wrote: I think it's fair enough to discuss it, though, and the issue has arisen in specific media, as that essay by dream showed. Andrew's contribution was well intentioned. -- From: Kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] And those of us who are among the white audience of a primarily black art form, without the full context of the gender issues in African-American Culture, it's
(313) in detroit next week
i hit town sometime tuesday probably and will stay at least through next weekend. (short and sweet!) lks
Re: (313) Re: hey ya?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Phonopsia wrote: - Original Message - From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kent williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Cyclone Louise Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 6:21 AM Subject: Re: (313) Re: hey ya? Just trying to keep these three ideas (blacks are american, blacks are the other, pop music is an economic product) in my head simultaneously is a difficult feat. but suffice it to say that because of these dynamics I'm willing to bet that the following assertions hold true about misogyny in hiphop: 1. Misogyny in hip-hop is a hyperextension rather than an accurate reflection of misogyny in black life. That's the point really, innit? The point where misogyny becomes pervasive is the point where life imitates art. And unfortunately, I suspect we're approaching that more by the day. innit? so i see the iowa accent has not effectively disappeared! ;) There's been some attempt to actually test this empiricallyto see whether exposure to rap music (or other aggressive art forms like heavy metal) has an impact on how people think and behave. there's some tentative support for the relationship. people listening to violent hip hop are more likely to support violence as a means of conflict resolution than people listening to non-violent hiphop. but more work needs to be done, in both testing the effect experimentally, and in tracing the development of these themes in the music (and on radio and video) over time. i'm doing some of this work myself, and we'll see what happens. peace lks
(313) innit
i meant to say that tristan's iowa accent has NOW effectively disappeared. ain't no iowans saying innit last i checked. ;) peace lks
Re: AW: (313) Theo Parrish Mix
sh*t kidi can't even HEAR pt. 2 much less id the track! (i can't get pt. 2 on the website for some reason) On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Carlos de Brito wrote: can anyone help out with the track-id of the last track theo's playing in part2? it's the original beyoncé and jay-z used for crazy in love, as far as i know it's from the chi-lites, but which track? thx, mtrbrt -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Lester Kenyatta Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Gesendet: Freitag, 5. Dezember 2003 21:44 An: Michael Lees Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Betreff: Re: (313) Theo Parrish Mix i can't get the second part to play...nor can i get many other mixes. it seems as if they have been moved offsite. has anyone else had this problem? the link: http://mix.pulsation.com/mixes/TheoParrishLiveAtParadiseMassagePart2.mp3 lks
(313) betalounge song id
can someone id the song at the 2:11:00 point of the 11/29/03 betalounge set? sounds a bit like inner city thanks lks
(313) one more thing...in detroit in 2 weeks!
i'll also be back in detroit for about a week or so starting the week of xmas. if there is nothing out of the ordinary going on, i'll probably hit the usual spots. i'll give a heads up either way. peace lks
Re: (313) Theo Parrish Mix
i can't get the second part to play...nor can i get many other mixes. it seems as if they have been moved offsite. has anyone else had this problem? the link: http://mix.pulsation.com/mixes/TheoParrishLiveAtParadiseMassagePart2.mp3 lks
Re: (313) richie hawtin in wired magazine
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, m a t t [d] wrote: http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,61273,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5 interesting about his modified allen and heath mixer sorry if this has been posted before... matt :) a couple of comments: 1. i didn't think itunes had dance music from independent labels 2. people talk about how hawtin (and others) simply play the same set over and over again, or at least variations of that set. it isn't hard to understand why this dynamic occurs given his travel itinerary. doesn't mean it is RIGHT...but it IS understandable. 3. i'm not familiar with the allen and heath mixer. what does he gain from modifying IT as opposed to a standard say, GEMINI? (*ducks*) peace lks
Re: (313) software for laptop DJing
traktor's dj studio is nice. On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, john harvey wrote: does anyone know what the best software is for DJing mp3s/wav files. i'm not too bothered about beat-matching, i just need to be able to cue up a 2nd mp3 and fade out/in. cheers, john :]
(313) house/techno in new orleans
i'm going to new orleans in a couple of weeks. i'll be there sunday-tuesday, and was wondering whether anyone knew of spots. thx. lks
Re: Re: (313) 'Techno' Music
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Dr. Nutcracker wrote: I always thought that Juan coined the term by taking the phrase from Toffler's book when he made 'Techno City' . It was Rushton who jumped on it and pushed it as a genre name to try and differentiate thier music from Chicago House. And that's exactly what these heads were doing in the beginning on their labels... simular equipment as in Chicago House and with influeces from a dozen european bands. So can we conclude then... that in early stages a lot of so called 'Detroit Techno' classics are at least very simular to Chicago House? Yes and no. They are similar enough to mix w.o. problem. But there is nothing coming out of Chicago during this time that sounds anything like Clear or Cosmic Cars. Similarly there is nothing coming out of Detroit that sounds like Love Can't Turn Around. Strings of Life, and maybe Triangle of Love are the two songs that sound like Detroit songs with Chicago influences. The Acid stuff (Phuture's stuff jumps out) are the Chicago songs that exhibit Detroit influences. I also remember a story wherein these heads were driving up to Chicago every weekend to check out those 'Disco' parties with DJ's like Ron Hardy. Yep. But also remember that the Chicago artists were either borrowing the equipment of Detroiter's or getting the equipment they used. Of course we cannot neglect the fact that Detroit city was in resessions those days... Yes it was...but black Chicago wasn't doing much better. There is a quote in a Model 500 song (Future i think) that talks about how techno is here to stay. That song comes out in '85. peace lks
Re: Re: (313) 'Techno' Music
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, marc christensen wrote: The canonical history holds that it was indeed out of the marketing of the Ten Records Techno comp that the term techno first came to be used to describe the 313 sound and differentiate it more concretely from the sounds of Chicago's scene. But there's more than one example of May in particular mentioning that he doesn't like techno as a term. Techno was clearly Juan's afterthought, and it suited Rushton and the marketing campaign just fine. I think the canonical history is actually wrong on this point. Take the phrase techno's here to stay in Future. Now that term could mean damn near anything within the context of that song...but given that I had conversations with my partners (in Detroit) before '87 about techno music, I'm arguing that the term was applied to what we now think of as techno before it was used as a marketing slogan. Up until '88, techno did not exist in Detroit. I disagree. But I do agree that there were a number of other names used to describe both house and detroit's music (whether it was house, detroit house, or prep music, or progressive). If we can give up just a touch of our collective 313-centricity, just for an instant, and ask seriously what House/Techno would have been without the terms to stabilize them, I think the relatively provisional and even kind of arbitrary limits of the genres become clearer. Sure Chicago Detroit had rather different sounds, but the sounds within each city's scene were also wildly divergent. The question though is, for purely categorical purposes is the variance within each city as great as the variance between the cities? I have to think really hard about this one. House today rarely sounds as broad, or experimental, as it did when it was local, and stood as a local practice. Thinking off the top of my head in Chicago you had three different streams. The stuff that relied heavily on sampling (house nation, jack your body, farley farley, etc.), the stuff that relied heavily on vocals (you used to love me, you ain't really house, etc.), and the stuff that relied heavily on bass lines (no way back instrumental, acid trax). This stuff was very different than anything else we'd heard...but it really wasn't broad the way we'd think of broad now. In fact I'd argue that house now is much broader than it was when it was a nascent art form. There are a number of reasons for this. There are more artists working within the genre, they are spread over the world rather than concentrated within one city, there is both international diversity and racial diversity in the artists (and consumers), and there is more technical sophistication. The earliest tracks (and mixing practices) of the belleville three, plus d-wynn, mills, baxter, fawlkes, and *all* the other folks who were already well-established by '87-'88, were also very different, track-by-track, from each other.(1) There was a *lot* of musical experimentation going down at the time, in both cities. They were different enough that you could tell when Model 500 was responsible for a track as opposed to Fowlkes. But they weren't so different that you couldn't hear them as opposed to chicago tracks and not be able to say where the tracks came from. lks
Re: (313) I Love Techno in the Fall.
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Lee Herrington IV wrote: hi folks. well, the days are getting cooler and shorter here on the south shore of lake erie. for whatever reason, this time of the year i find myself spinning alot more techno... i can't help but put on model 500 or early psyche trax. in the summer, all i want to hear is jazzy, deep, soulful house. come the winter, i'm grabbing for more strand, duplex, keith tucker EP's. does anyone else find that their musical tastes change with the seasons? Before the MP3 era (and before my youngest son bless his heart wrecked my 5 disc cd player), I would change the rotation every so often. My winter rotation would include a lot of trio stuff (piano, bass, drums) because the tinkle of the keys and the spare sounds of the drums would fit well with the first snows. Some hip-hop is DEFINITELY more appropriate for the summer for me. The Score for example is a summer cd...or a spring cd. I'm not sure whether my dance music mood changes though. This is an excellent question. peace lks
(313) was groovetech now itunes
i think that dance music would be the perfect money maker for itunes. as dj'ing moves away from vinyl, even those who are ideologically predisposed to pay loot for tracks will find it a time-suck to continually buy tracks then transform them to mp3. at a buck a pop, who'd fight it? lks
Re: (313) Theo Parrish Interview and Overload Farewell
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, RAW2019 wrote: a nice interview i only don't really follow him on the FS story allthough i understand his point of view on suffering on getting a collection is has nothing to do with FS from where i'm looking at it. but maybe i don't understand .. RAW interviewing is a SCIENCE. nick should be commended for getting it right here. (as a sidenote, tristan isn't the nature of the internet ephemeral? i remember this dope web magazine called FEED. disappeared into the void with the QUICKNESS. overload is gone, but it'll bleed into to something else...just like FEED bled into places like Salon and even Slate.) as far as FS goes... FS is the thing that makes DJs able to forego the work of building a collection through blood, sweat, tears, and loot. And in as much as that process winnows out (to a certain extent) people who aren't that serious about DJing as a craft, Theo thinks (according to my reading of the interview) that something very very important is being lost. He's right...but also wrong. People ARE now able to just take an entire record collection, or even recreate an entire record collection with a tiny fraction of the effort previously required. And some of those people are no doubt doing it just because they can. And their art suffers for it. Speaking technically, you learn something about the craft of DJing from blending two tracks BY HAND that you don't necessarily get by tweaking a couple of BPM knobs. BUT at the same time when the means of production is opened up to the public and made democratic think about what you gain. You gain access to all of the tracks that previously needed a 19th level Wizard to find. You gain more time to develop your craft because you don't have to go sifting through bins. Through the process of competition and cooperation, better DJing results from the increased interaction of all those cats who are spinning now. With the means of production widely distributed you now have the ability to use found sounds in a much richer fashion. I've been toying with the idea of taping my lectures and then using them as background for my mixes...something that would have been very difficult just five years ago. So Theo is channeling Wynton Marsalis here, against an invisible Herbie Hancock. He's got some points...but I guess where you stand on them is very much related to what you think about democracy and art. peace lks
(313) philly
i sent an email a while back about philly but unfortunately deleted the response. i'm going to philly for labor day weekend (8.27-8.31) and am looking for house/techno spots. the deeper the better. thanks! lks
(313) kent
holler at me when you get a chance.
Re: (313) Lil' Louis
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003, Cyclone Wehner wrote: Does he DJ out much? I was trying to convince a house promoter here to do him. For money? Isn't that...illegal? peace lks
RE: (313) track id HERE COMES THE SUN
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Robert Taylor wrote: The Beatles! :-) yep...that's what soulseek told me! ;) but though i've always liked the liverpool 4i'm thinking they're not quite THAT funky. lks
RE: (313) track id HERE COMES THE SUN
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Robert Taylor wrote: I dunno - have you heard Tomorrow Never Knows? which album?
RE: (313) track id HERE COMES THE SUN
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003, Robert Taylor wrote: Revolver No...where is this album in their chronology?
RE: (313) track id HERE COMES THE SUN
ah. i wasn't familiar with the album, only the tracks. eleanor rigby is the sh*t! have to track down tomorrow never knows.
(313) track id HERE COMES THE SUN
??
Re: (313) track id HERE COMES THE SUN
sorry. i thought that would be enough. doh! a house track...with a rap thrown in. Here comes the sun, here comes the sun, here comes the light...
Re: (313) Mojo interviews Prince OT (1985)
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, Martin wrote: 25/6/03 9:15 PM Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] MOJO: You've made fantastic albums, and you've made fantastic movies, and you're making another movie right now. Albums...check Talented...check From Detroit...check Body of and adolescent teenager or lady boy...check Slept with Sheena Eastern...check Fantastic movies...no fcuking way, could this interviewer get any further up Prince's anal corridor...Jesh... This about the context. This interview didn't take place in 1992. The only movie he'd had up to date was Purple Rain. Which WAS fantastic...it's got to be one of the best rock n roll movies ever made. Mojo did jock the sh*t out of Prince. But it isn't quite as bad as you note. peace lks
Re: (313) Mojo interviews Prince OT (1985)
On Thu, 26 Jun 2003, ::) wrote: i would too man, prince rules and Im sure mojo wanted him to call in again in the future :) plus, there had just been a prince concert, so the audience was probably partial to prince yeah...i actually think i might have BEEN at that concert
(313) philly scene
i'm going to be in philly for labor day weekend. i haven't been there in several years...any spots i should check out? promoters? peace lks
Re: (313) Mojo interviews Prince (1985)
thanks for this. i remember hearing this interview for two reasons...i'm a supporter of Prince, his birthday is a couple of days away from mine. takes me back. Side A of Around the World in a Day is i think the best side Prince has produced. on another note though, you can see where scan 7 lifted their quotes from... nothing but...magic. peace lks
RE: (313) Soul Music (was some nonsense spw was going on about)
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Sylvia wrote: |On the other hand, Soul Music as a genre was a just a euphimism for |black music, and doesn't have anything to do with soul as a spiritual |or metaphysical concept. Euphemism 'blues' is without hope and that its singers accept their conditions without complaint or expectation of anything better. Soul borrowed an expectation of a better world from gospel, but translate it into a worldly context as opposed to a religious one. Gospel gives soul its optimism because it believes in a better world in heaven, soul starts looking for that better world on earth. Albery Murray in STOMPING THE BLUES, argues that the blues is actually about CHANGING MATERIAL CONDITIONS THROUGH STYLE, GRACE, AND SONG. The blues (the song genre) were played to actually TAKE THE BLUES (the feeling) AWAY! Now i don't like the blues in general. But it's important to correct this. Sylvia isn't coming up with this out of thin air--her interpretation is the generally accepted interpretation in mainstream literature. Soul Music is the product of ever evolving social conditions and a diversity of musical influences Soul Music is about the problems faced by groups of people, not of individuals Soul Music is about poverty and day to day drudgery Soul Music is the belief that circumstances can improve Soul Music is about realism, it is not blinkered by romantic ideals The 'Moan' is a defining characteristic of Soul Music Soul Music is tolerant Soul Music is. Euphemism, pt, dubya! but yes understanding Soul Music can just escape from a brain with 2 neurons without connector. Similarly, soul music isn't JUST about the problems. Maybe looking at techno (the detroit brand) will clear this up a bit. By now, many of you have been able to actually see Detroit in all of her terrible glory. And I'm pretty sure ALL of you have read about Detroit in interviews with Detroit artists. When they talk about Detroit inevitably the idea of it being like a Western version of Beirut comes up. Images of Detroit being a Very Bad Place come to mind readily. Ignoring for a second statements from the artists about how the landscape of Detroit impacted their soundscape, LISTEN to the music. Do you hear horror or contextual poverty in STRINGS OF LIFE? In NUDE PHOTO? In TRIANGLE OF LOVE? There is undoubtedly some darkness in these and other songs. But that isn't all there is. Just as techno is solely a reaction to a limited vision of what Detroit is, soul (and the blues) isn't simply a reaction to subjugation. I don't think we'd be listening to this stuff if it were. peace lks
Re: (313) Waveless DJing
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003, J. T. wrote: i guess i never got over the part where laptops became accepted parts of performance. z yuck. how excited can you get watching somebody stare straight ahead at a screen clicking a button -- im not arguing anything crazy like its not really playing live, it's just really really boring as far as performances go (unless you got some other stuff going on up there too). I'm about to pick up traktor's dj software...so i've got biases But check this out. Back in the day there was a DJ in detroit named Ray Berry. Jeff Mills and Berry were the first tricksters I saw. Berry had this thing where he would scratch with his mouth...then with his shoe. And Mills was (in his hiphop days) quicksilver personified...which is a trick in and of itself. The first few times I saw them, I was blown away. Now? I'm nonplussed. Just give me the MUSIC. DJs to me should blend into the woodwork. Granted, I got extra excited when I saw THeo getting into the groove...but that wasn't because of his tricks, but because of his enthusiasm. I'm pretty sure enthusiasm is portable, regardless of the medium. peace lks
(313) Night Drive Through Babylon...sets needed!
Listen. I'm going to Detroit (i know i know, one f*cking week late) tonight. midnight. an 8.5 hour trip. i've got an mp3 player...and i need a new cd (tentatively titled NIGHT DRIVE THROUGH BABYLON) to fill up nine hours of stuff with. if you could give me the email (or even send me) the hottest mp3 dj sets you're familiar with WITHIN A FEW HOURS OF GETTING THIS MESSAGE, i'd really appreciate it. peace!! lks
Re: (313) minus pre-demf party?
Mills spun at the Nectarine Ballroom on Sundays from 86-88 i think. I went there the first weekend of school in the summer of 87. Got there AT 9pm...and the joint was empty. We were too young to know that the parties don't really start until 11. When we came back the walls were dripping. lks
Re: (313) minus pre-demf party?
On Wed, 28 May 2003, Phonopsia wrote: - Original Message - From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Phonopsia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Grammenos, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 6:33 PM Subject: Re: (313) minus pre-demf party? Mills spun at the Nectarine Ballroom on Sundays from 86-88 i think. I went there the first weekend of school in the summer of 87. Got there AT 9pm...and the joint was empty. We were too young to know that the parties don't really start until 11. I imagine the fact that if anyone was there it was a ton of 14 year olds probably didn't help the vibe any [raises hand sheepishly]. ;) IIRC they would boot all the minors out soon before midnight, and then the real fun started (from which we youngins were excluded). OH. I understand what you were really asking now. They did NOT have kiddies (defined as being under 18). They DID have kids (i.e. 18 year old college freshmen). peace lks
Re: (313) minus pre-demf party?
On Wed, 28 May 2003, Phonopsia wrote: - Original Message - From: Lester Kenyatta Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Phonopsia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Grammenos, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:06 PM Subject: Re: (313) minus pre-demf party? They did NOT have kiddies (defined as being under 18). They DID have kids (i.e. 18 year old college freshmen). Hmm... I'm certain I was there on Thursdays when I was 14, and I'm pretty damn sure they did this on Sunday's through midnight too. Maybe they only opened it for kiddies on Sundays during the Summer or something??? Dunno. Mostly I was just curious if my first clubbing experience might have been Mills. I had a memory of some dude in a cowboy hat with crazy sideburns, but that booth used to be fairly obscured, so I wasn't sure who was on when, etc. This may have happened. I just don't remember kids (real kids) being there. Mills looks pretty much the same now as he did then, short unassuming. Because he was in hiphop mode at the time he was pretty frantic on the tables no cowboy hats that i can recall. haha. lks
Re: (313) New museum exhibit at S.I.D. just opened
damn it man! i KNOW i sent updates the first year the nights OF? can ew get an update? a witness? a bagel?!?
Re: (313) movement...
On Sat, 24 May 2003, ryan burns wrote: anyone care to tell me how it went on friday in Detroit? favorite dj sets? the only thing that went on friday was pre-parties. the real stuff starts in about 15 minutes i think. which means that we won't be seeing live sets at any rate...perhaps some taped ones will appear after the fact. lks
Re: (313) Metro Times article (May day)
who in the hell contacted the brazilian? if they wanted an expat with letters they could have contacted me i can understand the rest of the article. you have to note the logistic problems...and the controversies. the race angle too. but getting someone who doesn't know 8 mile from a hole in the wall to say i'm not coming? lisa, you still on here? where did you get him from? lks
Re: (313) Metro Times article (May day)
On Thu, 22 May 2003, Lester Kenyatta Spence wrote: who in the hell contacted the brazilian? if they wanted an expat with letters they could have contacted me i can understand the rest of the article. you have to note the logistic problems...and the controversies. the race angle too. but getting someone who doesn't know 8 mile from a hole in the wall to say i'm not coming? lisa, you still on here? where did you get him from? It's not a HIM you idiot...it's a HER! And she posts on the list regularly, if you'd take the damn time to read the names on the emails! (idiot. DOH!)
(313) bone
hot as hell. nothing like crunching numbers in the office listening to techno and house. nothing on earth. today is a GOOD day. peace lks
RE: (313) heads-only techno? nah
On Mon, 5 May 2003, Darren Longton (Marketing) wrote: odon't think that'll go over well with the heads in detroit. Don't want to get into the whole elitism thing again, butguess heads will have to except that our underground scene will eventually be a POP-MTV-CEO controlled genreif it becomes the next hip hop. I mean...I LOVE hiphop...but it's getting a little too...well...MTV!! I think what Kent is referring to is the mass support that hiphop receives on the radio, on tours, on television, and the like. Personally, I think that keeping things the way they are is one way to keep some quality control on things. After all...a lot of hiphop is ABOUT the $$...can't think of any techno that iswell...MAYBE GhettoTekbut that's more about THAT ASS!!! haha This is where the comparisons end, largely because much of techno is instrumental. Delivery, Flow, Rhythmic complexity, all have undoubtedly improved in rap music...and part of that is because more people listen and participate in it. The thing that has dried up is content. Rap played on popular radio stations isn't really saying much. I attribute this to the political economy of popular music. Because the emphasis in techno is not on lyrics--again MOST of techno is instrumental--I think that if techno did become as strong as hiphop in the states we'd get all of the benefits (as far as growth of the artform) without the detriments (content that is arguably vulgar and spirit-killing). I'd make the same argument for house, even though there is a strong lyrical component to it. You just can't sing about Benzes the way you can about unrequited love, or about worship. lks
RE: (313) heads-only techno? nah
On Mon, 5 May 2003, Darren Longton (Marketing) wrote: I think what Kent is referring to is the mass support that hiphop receives on the radio, on tours, on television, and the like. I agree these could do wonders...but with the good, comes the bad, that's all. Some recognition WOULD be nice. Minus the exploitation. That's right...though I read SOMEWHERE (maybe Norman Kelley's RHythm and Business? maybe Salon?) that independent labels are more apt to exploit because their artists aren't part of the union. Too many stories about beats getting jacked and folks not getting credit for us to valorize being underground TOO much. ...but we obviously have WAY too much time on our hands..after all...it's Monday morning! haha ...and in my case I can easily grade black nationalism papers and read email. I've got the best job in the WORLD! :) lks
(313) chicago this weekend
ANYTHING GOING ON IN CHICAGO THIS WEEKEND? (as a sidenote, someone sent me information about oakland or rather information about the LACK of events in oakland a few weeks back...i meant to thank them but deleted the message) peace lks
(313) in oakland for the rest of the week
anything going on in either oakland or sf? lks
Re: (313) OT:Detroit SCI FI
On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Kent williams wrote: Coming off the stunningly beside-the-point thread on IDM about gay electronica in which I just participated, here's another one: I read science fiction novels all the time, always have, probably always will. It's up there on my list of grand obsessions along with electronic music. In fact I frequently put on techno and read sci fi. Both techno and sci fi are redolent of the same sort of inverted nostalgia for the future: We're in the future now, and it has both surpassed the Sci Fi I was reading 30 years ago, and come out a lot meaner and sadder. I don't think this is off-topic at all. Given the explicit sf themes that are present in techno...and the sf milieu detroiters grew up in it is appropos. (When I talk about the sf milieu i'm not talking about the bladerunner vision of detroit that people have, but rather GIANT ROBOT, ULTRAMAN, MONSTER WEEK at the 4pm movies, the Electrifying Mojo, etc.) I've often fused Detroit techno with William Gibson's fiction. (Kent your point about the future--THE FUTURE IS HERE--in relation to sf is on point given that gibson's latest novel is set in the present.) We've touched on the sf context of detroit before...i think carl craig talked about all the pop culture stuff we grew up on. I don't think techno exists without Giant Robot. Anyways, I've read a couple of books lately that touch on Detroit: The Impossible Birds Patrick O'Leary http://www.bordersstores.com/search/title_detail.jsp?id=52798875 I won't synopsize because synpopses of Sci Fi novels always sound absurd and dorky, but it is concerned with a weird virtual-reality afterlife brought about by aliens who appear as hummingbirds. The end of the book takes place in and around Detroit, including Greektown and the RenCen. A pivotal character lives in a house out in the burbs that for some strange reason reminded me of Ron Murphy's old place. I'm going to have to check this out. Accidental Creatures Anne Harris http://www.epiphyte.net/SF/accidental-creatures.html Just getting into this. Pretty wicked kinda post-cyberpunk dystopia set in Detroit. The Fisher Building plays a large role, and the pitting of a large corporation against a disenfranchised population is a not-too-subtle allegory for Detroit and the auto industry. Let me know what you think when you finish it. I picked it up largely because I was interested in reading about detroit as a sf setting. Was disappointed. peace lks
RE: (313) New Subject Detroit
On Tue, 28 Jan 2003, Cyborg K wrote: It's funny because the story behind Cyborg K is that I was abducted by aliens from Sirius B who implanted a chip in my head, and now I recieve their transmissions, which I must broadcast to the people of planet earth in order to facilitate the evolution of our species and prevent the apocalypse which we are headed towards. /dave I believe the Dogon of Mali annually traced the movements of Sirius B through a ritualistic dance. Did so for hundreds of years if I remember correctly. Sirius B was only able to be seen by modern tech in the late fifties. I think they stopped the dance a few years back because of the growth of Islam in the region. peace lks
Re: (313) Out of Detroit
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, Mann, Ravinder [CCS] wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/fridayreview/story/0,12102,885354,00.html As Craig Marks points out, this partly explains its appeal to audiences in the rest of the world. When you listen to a record from New York, you get the sense that you're listening to music made in the centre of the universe, he says. When you hear records from Detroit, you get the sense that the people making them are desperate to get out of Detroit. Could this be true...quite a few detriot dont life in detriot ? Rav Take a listen to JayZ's It's a Hard Knock Life and then listen to Strings of Life. What Marks is saying is popcrit bullshit. Mark is taking the city first then projecting images of that city onto the music.
Re: (313) more demf stuff...
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, diana potts wrote: HOWever, I think it's really unfortunate that something that was so beautiful and community oriented in its beginning has turned into a somewhat monster of egos. What does this portray to people on the outside of Detroit, of its music community? Here is where I stand (for those who don't know). I'm happy that May and Craig fought for the demf, and got the right to produce the next one. Jumping for joy am I. really. But thinking of the DEMF as a bundle of resources (contracts, prestige, etc.), I think you're putting too fine a gloss over it. In as much as these resources are zero-sum (there are only so many contracts and prestige to go around), POLITICS ARE INVOLVED. When politics are involved, communities fracture. That's the name of the game. People have different interests. I wish those involved who are keeping the festival from progressing could put egos and self claims aside and see that this festival is and always was supposed to be about- showing people that Detroit, with all its bruised reputations, can take this music and turn it into something positive for the city. I believe Derrick and company still have this vision and could do it justice, as Carl did the first year. I really think they have a chance here for a clean slate and to start over from the beginning. To get the festival back to its roots of the first year and completely start over. If Carol is _truely_ for the community as she has said from the beginning in interviews and so forth, then she would relax and wish Derrick, and the city of Detroit the best. The concept of the community is a rhetorical device used to mobilize people for or against very specific projects. I'm sure that Marvin is no longer thinking of May and Craig when she talks about the community. I'm sure May and Craig aren't thinking about Marvin when THEY talk about the community. I know I'm not. This is politics. It isn't bad (contrary to popular belief). I actually think it is good that Detroiters are willing to fight and compete over something as glorious as this. peace lks
Re: (313) Detroit Historical Exhibit
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Dan Sicko wrote: Curators were both from the Museum, and yes, the space was allotted over a year ago I believe. Don't know what the budget was, but things turned out about how I expected -- they did a *good* job. -d I wrote about the idea of a travelling techno exhibit after the demf of 2001 i think. one of the exhibits that influenced me was the missouri historical society's miles davis exhibit. synthesized personal tidbits with his art with his music. each visitor upon entering the exhibit was given an mp3 player and at each station the visitor was told to play a certain track. the tracks would either be davis' music, a commentary from people close to davis and davis himself, or a mixture of both. there were also a couple of listening spaces devoted solely to davis' music through the years. I liked the exhibit a great deal, and I thought the model could be easily ported over to techno. Only problem was that it lacked a sense of movement. Even though jazz has been fossilized to a certain extent, this is important. The techno exhibit in my head contained flyers from high school parties (comrades, weekends, etc.) it contained old drum machines and synthesizers, but most of all it contained MUSIC. Old 98 mix tapes from the wizard, gary chandler, and others. Deep Space Radio. Interviews with various people involved with the scene. Maybe even speeches from futurists like Alvin Toffler in the background. I'd like to check it out for myself...don't know if I'll get back in time.
(313) Derrick May Gets the Bid
check out today's free press. www.freep.com marvin is out, craig and may are in.
Re: (313) final scratch on mac!
On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, James Bucknell wrote: francois k played sydney last night using a titatium powerbook and two turntables. looks like final scratch has been ported for mac osx! so, anybody want to buy a few thousand classic chicago/detroit/new york house and techno records? you've burned that many? lks
Re: (313) tonight in detroit
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, ::) wrote: whats going on? anything good? this is latebut spectacles hosts a set every friday at the hunter house. the next one will be somewhere else... on sunday i think mike grant will be at agave on woodward with other blokes from beatdownsounds. no cover. hunter house is maybe 5-7 bones. peace lks
(313) house music all night long
a friend sent me this link from the village voice: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0250/nowinski.php i think the closest i came to really describing the feelings i get when i'm at a gig were the posts i sent during the first demf. this sister's story gets it right. lks
(313) d'angelo id
there's a song by d'angelo that i've heard a lot of house dj's usetheo parrish used it in his first demf set a few years back. does anyone know the name? lks
Re: (313) old house accapella albums
On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Recoil wrote: i'm trying to source an old house acapella album that i heard a while ago - no idea what series it is from or what it is called but it must have come out in the late 80s or something anyway, it was full of vocal smaples that were later used in hardcore/jungle tunes among them - the female vocal sample everyday of my life used by Reinforced in 93 Apologies if someone got to this already. I don't know who made the song, but I'm pretty sure it's called It's not over. It's not over between you and me It's not over don't want to be free What has been joined by God Let no man put asunder peace lks
Re: (313) old house accapella albums
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Cyclone Wehner wrote: Isn't that Let No Man Put Asunder by First Choice? I stand corrected...but at least I got the words right! peace lks
Re: (313) DEMF 2003
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, JOCELYNE NINNEMAN wrote: [one of the 3 main proposals was submitted as as partnership bet. carl craig derrick may] off to battle. peace lks
RE: (313) books on techno: more brilliant than the sun
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002, Brendan Nelson wrote: I guess that if Eshun was on this list he'd defend himself by pointing out that electronic/futuristic music is so new, comparitively, that the conceptual framework for describing it - in terms of its construction as well as of its effect on the listener - is yet to be developed, and so he's pretty much obliged to write in such a bizarre scat-poetry style when talking about Drexciya, UR, Alice Coltrane and Parliament. A rock journalist writing yet another Beatles book has decades of cliches and reference points to rely on, but someone writing about Drexciya has no real precedent to rely upon. Eshun certainly did take it to the extreme, but I think you're right in that, amidst the prosaic flights of fancy, there are a number of very good and very big ideas which he manages to put across in that book. Brendan I have SUN and like it. But with that said, I'm pretty sure that if Eshun were here, he'd do something similar to what he did on the Afrofuturism email list I'm on. Send a one sentence statement like: Please remove me from the list. Then write a book called The 313 Reader. peace lks
Re: (313) Hip Hop and Techno (was 8-Mile)
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, James Bucknell wrote: there isn't much crossover in the birthplace of hip hop in the south bronx/upper manhattan. when i'd go to the police athletics league gym on 118st and manhattan ave. any house, electro or techno cds i put on promptly got thrown off and replaced by hot 97 (bringing you blazin hip hop). i declined to dj at our block party because it was patently obvious that nobody was interested in hearing anything but hip hop (and the electric slide, of course). but block parties are a genre of their own. james I don't know if I'd expect cross over there though. The Black east coast, for reasons I don't completely understand, has always looked to hiphop as its dance music of choice. Not house (exception perhaps being the hip-house craze), not techno. Much more diversity in spots like detroit and chicago, largely because they'd created musics of their own that were played alongside of hiphop. peace lks
Re: (313) nightclubs - the good, the bad, the ugly
i think with a couple of exceptions (that don't readily come to mind) my taste in club design is a lot like my fashion taste. two types entice me: 1. very spare. no glaring ads. open space. cubes to dance on top of, or sit on. hardwood floors. small juice bar. high ceilings. clean. the club that really nailed this down for me was the music institute. the johanson gallery is really barebones too. 2. lush. plush lounging area with couches, and loveseats. paintings adorning the walls. colored lights to denote a warm tone. lots of clingy fabric. there was a coffee bar in ann arbor that was used for parties--Not Just Another Cafe i think. gorgeous. there's an old gothic church now club here in st. louis called THE KASTLE that tries to mix both 1 and 2 to success. peace lks
RE: (313) nightclubs - the good, the bad, the ugly
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Alexandres Lugo wrote: Funny you should mention it's a converted McDonald's..so is Panacea here in Detroit, but it's nice! Peace, Alex www.fulcruminn.net whoa. panacea is a MCDONALDS i haven't been there yet, and because of that i didn't make a comment...but from pictures it certainly seemed like a cool blue type of spot. damn. a mickeydees. you've got to be kidding me. lks
Re: (313) 8-Mile
On Fri, 8 Nov 2002, T.J.Johnson wrote: yeah, but he's referring to Moby, so I don't know if he even knows that he is not dissing techno... given one piece of anecdotal information (mathers was spotted at the wizard's return back in...march was it?) i think he knows. peace lks
Re: (313) 8-Mile
On Sat, 9 Nov 2002, T.J.Johnson wrote: techno has never been all over Detroit radio it used to be on 88.7 at midnight or so when motor was braodcasting live but that's about it no. it DID used to be all over detroit radio. go back about 17 years. peace lks
RE: (313) Detroit clothing - sporty angle
go old school. get something from mumford (a la beverly hills cop). On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Rob Theakston wrote: and just what the hell is wrong with the red wings?!? they're a fine team! they assembled one of the best hockey squads of all time last year! there's a couple minor league things going on, but the only one that comes to mind is the Whalers, and they're based in the comfy suburbian wasteland that's plymouth (about 20 miles outside of Detroit). There's the Detroit Shock, which is the women's basketball team, and I do believe the Detroit Drive is still playing arena football. anyone else think of any? - theakstonov -Original Message- From: Jason Donnelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:36 AM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: (313) Detroit clothing - sporty angle Afternoon all! Good friend is flying to Detroit for a couple of days and asked if there was anything I would like. Looking for the less 'obvious' sporting team tops, i.e. not the Red Wings or Tigers. any suggestions??? are there any minor league ice hockey/ baseball teams in the D?? thanks jason
Re: (313) first techno record
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Jason wrote: Most certainly Sharivari is the first techno record from detroit. It preceded Alleys of your Mind by Cybotron by at least six months in release. Some techno heads would argue that kraftwerk was the first to produce techno, but from detroit it is A Number of Names with Sharivari. this appears to be based on the first definition. i guess it really depends on how deep you want to go theoretically. there's a problem of prolepsis--projecting the future onto the past. in this case, we don't have any substantial proof that the creators of shari vari either sought out to create a new genre, or knew that they DID create a new genre, much less come up with the name that we're placing on it (techno) in hindsight. it's more like we're taking shari vari or alleys of your mind and saying that it is techno because: 1. it comes from detroit 2. it sounds like later stuff that we call techno 3. some of the later stuff comes from the same artists if we want to just kick it around like this, then i really don't see why we'd just focus on detroit. there's no inherent reason for it if we're not going to some seminal text (verbal or written) that LITERALLY maps the term techno onto the music. on techno as a term originating in the seventies: this is an excellent point. i guess the question i'd have is, when did the term stick? Are there people walking around referring to techno that have the seventies stuff in their heads rather than either the detroit stuff or the european stuff that comes out in the nineties? peace lks
Re: (313) what was the first techno record ever?
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, henrique casanova wrote: and i mean really techno, named that way and produced on detroit. it was by juan atkins? or it was a transmat? take care you all three ways to define it: 1. techno appears the first time an individual associated with detroit techno comes out with an album. one of the big three in this case. Under this definition it'd have to be ALLEYS OF YOUR MIND by Cybotron. Nothing comes before it...I don't think SHari Vari does. 2. techno appears the first time the term is uttered in a genre-like manner in a song produced by someone affiliated with detroit. Under this definition I think it'd be Future by Model 500. Take a look around you...techno's here to stay. 3. Techno appears the first time the term is used as a record title for a record produced by someone in detroit. Under this definition I think it'd be the compilation by Ten Records. To be really strict I think we'd have to either go with #3, OR point to some record that comes after someone begins to use the term as a grouping moniker in an interview somewhere. If for example Juan is talking about techno music referring explicitly to his stuff back in the eighties, then anything produced after that point by him could be plausibly referred to as techno. what do people think about this? peace lks
(313) ping
...
(313) laura gavoor et al
I haven't spoken to Laura via email for some time...and we've never met. But when I heard about her passing it made me think of my best friend, who was murdered a year ago last week. Detroit in the eyes of many people is a wasteland. Even listening to some of the comments of May, Atkins, Mills, and Hawtin, one can easily get the impression that people around the city are just biding their time to turn the lights out. People like Laura saw Detroit not only for what it appeared to be, but also for what it was underneath the surface AND FOR WHAT IT COULD BE. In the face of an extended campaign to discredit and disinform, people like Laura remain DEFIANT, RELENTLESS, UNBOWED, and UNBROKEN...while at the same time expressing a joy for life simply unmatched by any of the rat bast*rds out to sh*t on the city. I teach an Introduction to African American Studies class. Today we talked about Plessy v. Ferguson...for those who aren't familiar, Plessy was a shoemaker in 1890's Louisiana and he tried to sue to have a racist policy of separating whites and blacks on public transportation dismantled. He didn't win...but the kicker to me is the following: Plessy was 7/8 white. He could have simply passed for white and lived a life of relative privilege. But he didn't. Not only did he claim his blackness, he FOUGHT for black people. Now I don't know Laura personally. Don't know if she's black or white, tall or short, big or small. I do know this though. Where the path of least resistance in relation to Detroit and Detroit techno is to simply pass Laura stayed...living, loving, and KICKING *SS. We'd do well to follow her path. She will be sorely missed.
The Ultimate Final Scratch Question
How much would you pay for (insert prominent DJ's name here)'s collection on MP3 discs?
Re: [313] Religious producers/DJ's (was: TERRENCE PARKER)
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Thomas D. Cox, Jr. wrote: i have little problem with the idea of being positive or inspirational or uplifting. IMO the best music does that. i just dont see why belief in god is the way to do it. its possible to do those kinds of things without having any motive come from outside yourself. i see belief in god in this manner to be a crutch to someone who otherwise can't think positively for themselves. It's possible you are correct. But a few questions come to mind: 1. Are people, such as TP, who have become saved explicitly arguing that the only way that you can create inspirational music is through God? 2. Are there people who have had epiphanies about the inspirational possibilities of music who do NOT believe in a higher being? 3. Are there people who have NOT, like TP, had epiphanies but routinely produce uplifting music who themselves do not believe in a higher being? peace lks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Religious Producers
On Sat, 14 Sep 2002, Cyclone Wehner wrote: I respected TP's post, but in defence of Nelly, who gets a lot of flak, he is a really real person. His music is party music and actually quite positive for his genre of hip-hop - he would have more cred if he were more 'gangsta' or hardcore, but he refrains from that. He does a lot of social work and gives back to his community in St Louis and has given his friends jobs in his mini empire, and that's a positive, conscious thing. And, I have to say, he is one of the most down to earth and gracious superstars I have ever interviewed (three times now). He is very humble about his success too. In many ways he is like a lot of young men of his age, still finding his way. Music can be inspirational and positive in many ways maybe? (I love the song too, production is hype!) Cyclone, I'm feeling you. ON the one hand, Nelly IS a cool brother. I've played ball with him a couple of times and on one level he is totally UNASSUMING. But this doesn't mean his music is uplifting and inspirational. I definitely get conservative (in the intellectual sense) on issues like this. Let's just take the words to one of his songs and compare them to the words of something that IS viewed by most as inspirational. I don't think there is any comparison. I can respect that he's trying to find his way, but even when TP was a sloppy alcoholic, I bet he moved more people in an inspirational manner than Nelly. peace lks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Religious producers/DJ's (was: TERRENCE PARKER)
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Christian Bloch wrote: Hmm... this begs a question that i've been pondering for a while... How many (not to forget who) producers/DJ's are religious? I heard the Burden family is Jehova's Witnesses, but who else... And who are the atheists in our midst? And I guess since I'm posing the question, I should answer it too... I'm an atheist, but respecting and being interested in religion. I think Farley has become saved. Either him or Frankie Knuckles...get the two confused sometimes. I've been knocking my head about this for a while. The most intensely religious experiences I've ever had have been (with one or two exceptions) on the dance floor, listening to house and techno. The reason that people worship or more appropriately pay reverance to the DJ is because the DJ is the modern shaman/priest. The first person to recognize that DJ'ing CAN be a godly force will be able to move MOUNTAINS, both artistically and otherwise. Curt Franklin (sp?) got it all wrong when he tried to introduce people to Christianity through hip-hop and new hack swing (pun intended). He should've been using house. peace lks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
