Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Robert Andrews]

 A host is a host from coast to coast.  And nobody talks to a host 
that's close, unless the host that isn't close is busy, hung, or dead...


UUCP email days...

On 3/13/23 15:46, Jan-GAMs wrote:

George Noory?  But I preferred Art Bell

Hey, that large company I worked for, well, one of the employees who 
also got a lot of email, was injured and was out for like 3 months.  Her 
inbox got too full with unread mail and brought down the entire email 
system.


On 3/12/23 14:52, Robert Andrews wrote:

Who remembers a famous USENET author that had:

A host is a host from coast to coast

(what was the next line?)

As part of their signature..  Not the copycats, but the original...



On 3/12/23 13:13, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the 
email flying around your company.  Was kinda fun.

I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.
Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit. This 
was on a CSMA/CD coaxial network.

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early 
days.   There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back 
to the origin server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to 
obfuscate but not hide that origin.
Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not 
knowing or not being willing to disclose that information. Every 
email received generally will be able to be tracked back to the 
origin server,  with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the 
origin server will be unable to be determined since any random person 
can spin up a server, send mail,  and drop off the planet.
Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate 
that the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given 
domain and provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a 
way for legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to 
come from them actually comes from them and for companies like google 
to be able to reject what appear to be emails with spoofed sender 
information.



On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

    Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself
    via the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those
    who used the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course,
    then later they published a 5,000 page phone book with all our
    emails associated with our work addresses for over 50,000
    employees.  I printed it out and put it in a 3-ring binder and put
    it in the computer room where the other users could use it. Back
    then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had this big
    plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
    generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever
    know our email address associated with our work phone, work address,
    etc... .  It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that
    can't make it, the promise, unsaid.

    On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:

    wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
    This is getting to some Qanon level right here
    On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs 
    wrote:

    good question Forrest. mail.com <http://mail.com> provides
    several hundred domains to choose from and use and easily
    works with thunderbird as well as most other email reader
    applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
    monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used
    by arpanet to be free/open/anonymous and to still be
    functional even after a global war.  Using spf/dkim removes
    the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also think that
    since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
    it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim
    into it with a little more python scripting.  End result is
    now google knows exactly who you are and who you're sending to
    and the spam filters are broken because now we'll have
    verified spam mail.

    Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content? Where is
    your privacy?

    Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know
    anyone who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do
    not know anyone who has actually built and setup successfully
    a homebrew DIY email server.  I do know lots of people who
    have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way easier to buy
    it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
    is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send
    more than 10 emails at a time and you have to wait up to an
    hour before you can send 10 more.  That

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

George Noory?  But I preferred Art Bell

Hey, that large company I worked for, well, one of the employees who 
also got a lot of email, was injured and was out for like 3 months.  Her 
inbox got too full with unread mail and brought down the entire email 
system.


On 3/12/23 14:52, Robert Andrews wrote:

Who remembers a famous USENET author that had:

A host is a host from coast to coast

(what was the next line?)

As part of their signature..  Not the copycats, but the original...



On 3/12/23 13:13, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the 
email flying around your company.  Was kinda fun.

I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.
Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit.  
This was on a CSMA/CD coaxial network.

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early 
days.   There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back 
to the origin server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to 
obfuscate but not hide that origin.
Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not 
knowing or not being willing to disclose that information. Every 
email received generally will be able to be tracked back to the 
origin server,  with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the 
origin server will be unable to be determined since any random person 
can spin up a server, send mail,  and drop off the planet.
Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate 
that the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given 
domain and provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a 
way for legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to 
come from them actually comes from them and for companies like google 
to be able to reject what appear to be emails with spoofed sender 
information.



On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

    Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself
    via the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those
    who used the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course,
    then later they published a 5,000 page phone book with all our
    emails associated with our work addresses for over 50,000
    employees.  I printed it out and put it in a 3-ring binder and put
    it in the computer room where the other users could use it. Back
    then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had this big
    plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
    generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever
    know our email address associated with our work phone, work address,
    etc... .  It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that
    can't make it, the promise, unsaid.

    On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:

    wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
    This is getting to some Qanon level right here
    On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs 
    wrote:

    good question Forrest. mail.com <http://mail.com> provides
    several hundred domains to choose from and use and easily
    works with thunderbird as well as most other email reader
    applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
    monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used
    by arpanet to be free/open/anonymous and to still be
    functional even after a global war.  Using spf/dkim removes
    the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also think that
    since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
    it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim
    into it with a little more python scripting.  End result is
    now google knows exactly who you are and who you're sending to
    and the spam filters are broken because now we'll have
    verified spam mail.

    Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content? Where is
    your privacy?

    Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know
    anyone who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do
    not know anyone who has actually built and setup successfully
    a homebrew DIY email server.  I do know lots of people who
    have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way easier to buy
    it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
    is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send
    more than 10 emails at a time and you have to wait up to an
    hour before you can send 10 more.  That's why I tried to build
    my own, just so I could send customers the monthly billing
    automatically.  I even hired a programmer who said he had done
    it before, he 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

When we migrated our on prem server to a hosting service we didnt want to
have every customer have to reset their passwords (its easier to walk
grandma ethel through changing a server name than changing a password)so we
sniffed port 25 for a long time collecting usernames and passwords (our box
didnt store them in plain text)
It was hard to not eyeball more than just the usernames and passwords. I
ended up doing a filter to take away the temptations.

We were going to do a port 25 block to clean up our IP reputation, but when
we sniffed again there was still a crazy amount of email still on port 25
and it wasnt worth the hassle at the time since there are so many users
that just dont want to get with the times or used antiquated servers (like
mail.com and sherweb in regard to dkim) and use secure transports

On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the email
> flying around your company.  Was kinda fun.
> I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.
>
> Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit.  This was
> on a CSMA/CD coaxial network.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
> Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early days.
> There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back to the origin
> server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to obfuscate but not hide
> that origin.
>
> Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not
> knowing or not being willing to disclose that information.  Every email
> received generally will be able to be tracked back to the origin server,
> with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the origin server will be
> unable to be determined since any random person can spin up a server, send
> mail,  and drop off the planet.
>
> Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate that
> the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given domain and
> provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a way for
> legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to come from them
> actually comes from them and for companies like google to be able to reject
> what appear to be emails with spoofed sender information.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself via
>> the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those who used
>> the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course, then later they
>> published a 5,000 page phone book with all our emails associated with our
>> work addresses for over 50,000 employees.  I printed it out and put it in a
>> 3-ring binder and put it in the computer room where the other users could
>> use it.  Back then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had
>> this big plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
>> generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever know
>> our email address associated with our work phone, work address, etc... .
>> It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that can't make it, the
>> promise, unsaid.
>> On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
>>
>> This is getting to some Qanon level right here
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> good question Forrest.  mail.com provides several hundred domains to
>>> choose from and use and easily works with thunderbird as well as most other
>>> email reader applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
>>> monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used by arpanet to
>>> be free/open/anonymous and to still be functional even after a global war.
>>> Using spf/dkim removes the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also
>>> think that since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
>>> it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim into it with
>>> a little more python scripting.  End result is now google knows exactly who
>>> you are and who you're sending to and the spam filters are broken because
>>> now we'll have verified spam mail.
>>>
>>> Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content?  Where is your
>>> privacy?
>>>
>>> Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know anyone
>>> who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Mike Hammett]

"The cloud is the future" 


It certainly isn't. It's largely a fad that's already has people removing the 
wool from their eyes and moving on. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2023 6:43:59 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers 


Jan, 


Most of the links you shared aren't of Google being hacked, but people being 
scammed/phished. Tricking a user into sharing their login info means the user 
was scammed, not that google was hacked. ONE link you shared says less than 24 
gmails in Iran were hacked somehow. None of your links share that google has 
had a massive data breach at any time. That's not to say it can't/won't happen 
but there's been no big hacks at Google as far as I can remember. 


I stand by my claim that you're being paranoid. I promise you that mail.com or 
hosting your own email is far less secure and more easily hacked than Google 
is. Do you have thousands of engineers working to keep your data secure? That 
answer is NO. I am not delusional enough to think that hosting my own Linux 
server for email will be more secure than Google. There's no way I can outsmart 
hackers, keep updated on hourly or daily updates and patches, etc. Nor do I 
want to do that when I can outsource to a company that does it much better than 
I do. 


I don't host a single server for our WISP in 11 years in business and I won't 
be starting today. The cloud is the future and keeps me hands off on servers 
and software. If there's a problem, it's someone else's job to fix it and my 
only job is to report the issue. What if I'm on vacation and I had one or more 
servers that failed? Now that's my job to fix things while I'm supposed to be 
off the clock. I don't need that kind of stress in my life so I refuse to host 
any servers that are mission critical to my business. The only thing resembling 
a server would be our Preseem appliance but we have backup OSPF routes around 
it in case that fails. 


Our billing system is Azotel and they have hosted it in the cloud for us since 
we started 11 years ago. Total downtime in 11 years is under 1 hour. Not every 
cloud service is that reliable. They handle the multiple backups and securing 
of the servers too. Slack, for example, has probably had 12 hours of downtime 
or subpar performance in the 5 years we've used it but it still was an issue I 
didn't have to fix myself. 


On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 2:31 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 



I like dmarc since you get to dictate the strictness and get reports on your 
overall deliverability 


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 7:44 PM Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > wrote: 



Jan, 


I don't recall any hacks or data breaches to Google at all. I've seen plenty of 
other platforms with breaches like t-mobile but Google is pretty secure. I 
think you're acting a little paranoid in protecting your phone number. I can 
pay some online service and get your home address, phone numbers, and social 
security number if I wanted to. This information that you think is very secure 
is almost public knowledge for a fee. 


As others have said, DKIM/SPF are industry standards, not Google, and they're 
pretty old at this point. DMARC is newer, to me at least, in the last several 
years so not every platform gives much weight to this but DKIM and SPF is a 
must nowadays for any email provider. 


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 4:03 PM Josh Baird < joshba...@gmail.com > wrote: 



DKIM/SPF/DFMARC aren't "made-up standards" from Google. 


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Jan-GAMs < j.vank...@grnacres.net > wrote: 




I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail service is 
supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google that comply 
only with google as some sort of long-standing standard. It's a recent standard 
imposed by google. And I'm never going to willingly give google my phone number 
so that when they get hacked again the hackers will have my email and my phone 
number. Why don't I just broadcast on some public website my social security 
number too? Yeah, tiktok or twitter, give them my phone number, ssi, home 
address, all my emails along with my real name. Because when you give google 
your phone number, they now have exactly who you are and access to all your 
private info. How many times in the last couple years has google been hacked? 
Constantly! I am not going to freely give this shit to them. 
Well, I'm wrong, you're right. When I bought the phone, google forced me into 
an email address as part of using the phone. I never use that email and I 
refuse to login to anything using that email. Other than that I don't know how 
to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl. 

On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote: 



if

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Mike Hammett]

"I can assure you Gmail doesn't block emails that are..." 


I can assure you that they do. Scale is hard. The Mailops mailing list has a 
lot of traffic regarding the big mail providers epicly failing at mail 
constantly. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 11:57:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers 


I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block emails 
that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations. 


I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones that 
end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best practices 
for outgoing emails. 


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



i got your spam emails this morning 




On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 






Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs 
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers 

All mail.com users cannot send you email. How many other's are blocked as well? 
Oblivion, must be sweet. 

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote: 



Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually no 
issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11 years. 



It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them for 
support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in the 
cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are at Google 
and they're safe there and they handle the backups. 



I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's not 
worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so 
spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own email server would 
cost me more than what I pay Google. 



We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay to 
upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to Google 
for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind. 



This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we never 
offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live your 
best life not having to support email. 



On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt with 
it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was 
before my time :-) 









On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 








I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for 
employees and other business email addresses. It is free that way and we don’t 
have to worry about anything else. But for some reason the server hangs and 
needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day. 



Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we 
stopped using them some time ago. For example, our scanner stopped being able 
to send emails due to something gmail did. 






From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM 

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers 




How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this. We 
are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails since its 
same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The cost of our 
mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but wanted to keep their 
email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any administrative stuff. 



for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at it is 
if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than my email. 
Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would have been a 
blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i can 
still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that complicated, but 
its nonetheless a dumb waste of time. 



dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources unless 
your monetizing it. too large an attack vector 




On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF < af@af.afmug.com > wrote: 







It is only for our own company email. No customers on it. 










From: Tyson Burris 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM 

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers 




Surgemail is exactly what I used. Seemed to be a good product. 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Fr

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Robert Andrews]

Who remembers a famous USENET author that had:

A host is a host from coast to coast

(what was the next line?)

As part of their signature..  Not the copycats, but the original...



On 3/12/23 13:13, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the email 
flying around your company.  Was kinda fun.

I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.
Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit.  This 
was on a CSMA/CD coaxial network.

*From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
*Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early days.   
There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back to the 
origin server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to obfuscate but 
not hide that origin.
Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not 
knowing or not being willing to disclose that information.  Every email 
received generally will be able to be tracked back to the origin 
server,  with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the origin server 
will be unable to be determined since any random person can spin up a 
server, send mail,  and drop off the planet.
Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate 
that the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given 
domain and provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a way 
for legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to come from 
them actually comes from them and for companies like google to be able 
to reject what appear to be emails with spoofed sender information.



On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself
via the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those
who used the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course,
then later they published a 5,000 page phone book with all our
emails associated with our work addresses for over 50,000
employees.  I printed it out and put it in a 3-ring binder and put
it in the computer room where the other users could use it.  Back
then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had this big
plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever
know our email address associated with our work phone, work address,
etc... .  It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that
can't make it, the promise, unsaid.

On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:

wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
This is getting to some Qanon level right here
On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs 
wrote:

good question Forrest. mail.com <http://mail.com> provides
several hundred domains to choose from and use and easily
works with thunderbird as well as most other email reader
applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used
by arpanet to be free/open/anonymous and to still be
functional even after a global war.  Using spf/dkim removes
the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also think that
since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim
into it with a little more python scripting.  End result is
now google knows exactly who you are and who you're sending to
and the spam filters are broken because now we'll have
verified spam mail.

Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content? Where is
your privacy?

Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know
anyone who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do
not know anyone who has actually built and setup successfully
a homebrew DIY email server.  I do know lots of people who
have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way easier to buy
it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem
is most of the free email servers won't allow users to send
more than 10 emails at a time and you have to wait up to an
hour before you can send 10 more.  That's why I tried to build
my own, just so I could send customers the monthly billing
automatically.  I even hired a programmer who said he had done
it before, he failed.

On 3/12/23 07:32, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I can insert a spoofed email using only telnet to port 25 on
a mail server in about 30 seconds not counting the time it
takes to type the message itself. Basically you telnet to
port 25, issue four commands

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Robert Andrews]

 bounced
were the
free-gmail type accounts one gets by 
logging into google.  The emails were sent from mail.com <http://mail.com> and from my own 
business accounts.  The business ones went through and the mail.com <http://mail.com> ones 
bounced except for the one sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of 
the ones sent from the mail.com <http://mail.com> got bounced except yours. What makes you 
so special?

On
3/10/23
09:14,
Steve
Jones wrote:

i got
your
spam
emails
this
morning


On Fri,
Mar 10,
2023 at
11:04 AM
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Apparently nobody 
on gmail has noticed

            *From:* AF 
mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of 
*Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, 
March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: 
[AFMUG] mail servers

 All
mail.com 
<http://mail.com> users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked as 
well? Oblivion, must be sweet.

On
3/9/23 20:14, Darin 
Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the 
best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually no issues at all 
aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, 
costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them for support. We also 
use Google drive and their version of office apps in the cloud. We don't store 
any files locally at all. All business docs are at Google and they're safe 
there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any 
advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's not worth your time. 
My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so spending even 
one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own email server would cost me more 
than what I pay Google.

We're 
grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay to upgrade 
storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to Google for 
everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is 
relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we never offered it 
and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live your best life 
not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 
PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:

O365 
handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt with it a 
bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was before 
my time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 
1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

I 
prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for 
employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we don’t 
have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server hangs and 
needs to get 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Mike Hammett]

Proxmox Mail Gateway and Zimbra. Kick your feet up and move on with life. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown via AF"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: "Chuck McCown"  
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 5:05:45 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] mail servers 




We are having trouble with mailcow. Anything better out there. It hangs all the 
time these days. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Chuck McCown via AF]

Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the email flying 
around your company.  Was kinda fun.  
I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.  

Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit.  This was on a 
CSMA/CD coaxial network.  

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early days.   There 
has always been a multitude of ways to track email back to the origin server.  
And there has been a multitude of ways to obfuscate but not hide that origin. 

Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not knowing or 
not being willing to disclose that information.  Every email received generally 
will be able to be tracked back to the origin server,  with the caveat that 
sometimes the owner of the origin server will be unable to be determined since 
any random person can spin up a server, send mail,  and drop off the planet. 

Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate that the 
email originated from servers known to send mail for a given domain and provide 
some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a way for legitimate companies 
to ensure that email that appears to come from them actually comes from them 
and for companies like google to be able to reject what appear to be emails 
with spoofed sender information. 





On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

  Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself via the 
arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those who used the email 
system would always remain anonymous.  Of course, then later they published a 
5,000 page phone book with all our emails associated with our work addresses 
for over 50,000 employees.  I printed it out and put it in a 3-ring binder and 
put it in the computer room where the other users could use it.  Back then we 
had these machines called an Alto and each user had this big plastic cartridge 
with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this generated a lawsuit, because they 
promised us that no-one would ever know our email address associated with our 
work phone, work address, etc... .  It wasn't true then and it still isn't 
true.  But that can't make it, the promise, unsaid.


  On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:

wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity? 

This is getting to some Qanon level right here

On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

  good question Forrest.  mail.com provides several hundred domains to 
choose from and use and easily works with thunderbird as well as most other 
email reader applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is 
monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used by arpanet to be 
free/open/anonymous and to still be functional even after a global war.  Using 
spf/dkim removes the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also think that 
since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail, it also seems it 
could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim into it with a little more python 
scripting.  End result is now google knows exactly who you are and who you're 
sending to and the spam filters are broken because now we'll have verified spam 
mail.  


  Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content?  Where is your 
privacy?


  Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know anyone who 
has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do not know anyone who has 
actually built and setup successfully a homebrew DIY email server.  I do know 
lots of people who have tried to do so, including myself.  It's way easier to 
buy it as a service and then it gets expensive.  Another problem is most of the 
free email servers won't allow users to send more than 10 emails at a time and 
you have to wait up to an hour before you can send 10 more.  That's why I tried 
to build my own, just so I could send customers the monthly billing 
automatically.  I even hired a programmer who said he had done it before, he 
failed.  


  On 3/12/23 07:32, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

I can insert a spoofed email using only telnet to port 25 on a mail 
server in about 30 seconds not counting the time it takes to type the message 
itself. Basically you telnet to port 25, issue four commands (HELO, MAIL FROM, 
RCPT TO, DATA), and then type the message itself.  

Spoofing email in an automated way only takes some basic python skills. 
  Like I could teach anyone with a bit of computer experience how to do it in 
about an hour or so.  This python script can run on anything that runs python, 
which is pretty much any general purpose computing device.

So it is ridiculously cheap and easy to spoof email. 

The reason it is so easy is that email by itself has

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

;>>>>>>>>> competition
>>>>>>>>>>> just because they can get away with it.  They make shit up, and 
>>>>>>>>>>> terrorize
>>>>>>>>>>> those whom they want to force into compliance with their made-up 
>>>>>>>>>>> bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>> Next they're going to be asking for money
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad
>>>>>>>>>>> domain deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost 
>>>>>>>>>>> perse, but
>>>>>>>>>>> if mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like
>>>>>>>>>>> sherweb. Cant blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> sending server isnt current. Its like getting pissed that somebody
>>>>>>>>>>> doesnt get communications you sent out by telegraph
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>>>>>>>>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>>>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>>>>>>>>  bhLA==
>>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 
>>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>>>>>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>>>>>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>>>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

>>>>>>> perse, but
>>>>>>>>>>> if mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like
>>>>>>>>>>> sherweb. Cant blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> sending server isnt current. Its like getting pissed that somebody
>>>>>>>>>>> doesnt get communications you sent out by telegraph
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>>>>>>>>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>>>     
>>>>>>>>>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>>>>>>>>  bhLA==
>>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 
>>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>>>>>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>>>>>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>>>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>>>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>>>>>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>>>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 
>>>>>>>>>>>> bits=256/256);
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: dom

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

ved: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>>>>>>>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>>>>>>>  bhLA==
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 
>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>>>>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>>>>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. 
>>>>>>>>>>> [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>>>>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>>>>>>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by 
>>>>>>>>>>> mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for 
>>>>>>>>>>> ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>>>>>>>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Chuck McCown via AF]

e sent to
  you.  I picked
  4 gmail
  addresses and
  sent them
  out,  all of
  the ones sent
  from the mail.com
  got bounced
  except yours. 
  What makes you
  so special?
  
  On
  3/10/23 09:14,
  Steve Jones
  wrote:
  
  
  i
  got your spam
  emails this
  morning
  
  
  
  
  
  On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
  
  
  
  
  
  Apparently
  nobody on
  gmail has
  noticed
   
  
  
  From:
  AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On
  Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
  Sent:
  Friday, March
  10, 2023 10:32
  AM
          To: af@af.afmug.com
          Subject:
  Re: [AFMUG]
  mail servers
  
  
   
   All mail.com
  users cannot
  send you
  email.  How
  many other's
  are blocked as
  well? 
  Oblivion, must
  be sweet.
  
  On
  3/9/23 20:14,
  Darin Steffl
  wrote:
  
  
  
  Gmail
  is the best.

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Bill Prince]

 with it.  They make shit up, and 
>>>>>>>>>> terrorize
>>>>>>>>>> those whom they want to force into compliance with their made-up 
>>>>>>>>>> bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>> Next they're going to be asking for money
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad
>>>>>>>>>> domain deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost 
>>>>>>>>>> perse, but
>>>>>>>>>> if mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like
>>>>>>>>>> sherweb. Cant blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the
>>>>>>>>>> sending server isnt current. Its like getting pissed that somebody
>>>>>>>>>> doesnt get communications you sent out by telegraph
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>>>>>>>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>>>>>>>  bhLA==
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 
>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>>>>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>>>>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. 
>>>>>>>>>>> [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

..@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. 
>>>>>>>>> [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>>>>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by 
>>>>>>>>> mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for 
>>>>>>>>> ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>>>>>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with 
>>>>>>>>> ESMTP id csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
>>>>>>>>> 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>>>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>>>>>>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>>>>>>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>>>>>>>key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) 
>>>>>>>>> server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by 
>>>>>>>>> mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for 
>>>>>>>>> ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>>>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>>>>>>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>>>>>>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>>>>>>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>>>>>>>> Subject: hellody
>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>>>>>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed
>>>>>>>>>> through the FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.
>>>>>>>>>>> The others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You
>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced 
>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>> the free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The 
>>>>>>>>>>> emails
>>>>>>>>>>> were sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The
>>>>>>>>>>> business ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except
>>>>>>>>>>> for 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

t;>>>>>
>>>>>>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
>>>>>>> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
>>>>>>> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb.
>>>>>>> Cant blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending 
>>>>>>> server
>>>>>>> isnt current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get
>>>>>>> communications you sent out by telegraph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>>>>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>>>>  bhLA==
>>>>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 
>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. 
>>>>>>>> [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>>>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by 
>>>>>>>> mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for 
>>>>>>>> ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Matt Hopkins]

t;>>>>>  
>>>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>>>  bhLA==
>>>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 
>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>>>> for 
>>>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
>>>>>>> smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>>>>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; 
>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>>>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with 
>>>>>>> ESMTP id csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 
>>>>>>> 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>>>>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>>>>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>>>>>  key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) 
>>>>>>> server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by 
>>>>>>> mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for 
>>>>>>> ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>>>>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>>>>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>>>>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>>>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>>>>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>>>>>> Subject: hellody
>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM S

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

GvVMA
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>>> for 
>>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>>>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 
>>>>>> 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 
>>>>>> id csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 
>>>>>> 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>>>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>>>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>>>>   key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>>>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>>>>> (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; 
>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>>>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>>>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>>>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>>>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>>>>> Subject: hellody
>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through
>>>>>>> the FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The
>>>>>>>> others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You 
>>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>>> your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
>>>>>>>> free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails 
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The
>>>>>>>> business ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except
>>>>>>>> for the one sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,
>>>>>>>> all of the ones sent from the mail.com got bounced except yours.
>>>>>>>> What makes you so special?
>>>>>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i got

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

erse, but if
>>>> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
>>>> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
>>>> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
>>>> you sent out by telegraph
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>> 
>>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>>  
>>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>>  
>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>  
>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>  
>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>  bhLA==
>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; 
>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>> 
>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>  
>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>  
>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>  
>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>  
>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>  avNg==
>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>> for 
>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 
>>>>> 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 
>>>>> id csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 
>>>>> 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>>>key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>>>> (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; 
>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) 
with ESMTP id csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
+ (UTC)
Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com  
<http://047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com>  [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 
with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)
 key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
SHA256) (No client certificate requested) bymailout.easymail.ca  
<http://mailout.easymail.ca>  (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for 
; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
Thunderbird/102.8.0
To:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
Content-Language: en-US
From: Jan-GAMs 
Subject: hellody
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
Im probably special cause all my communications get
routed through the FBI servers for my online antics


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs
 wrote:

it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went
through.  The others tested, bounced.  Your address
is different somehow.  You mentioned your gmail is a
paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into
google.  The emails were sent from mail.com
<http://mail.com> and from my own business accounts. 
The business ones went through and the mail.com
<http://mail.com> ones bounced except for the one
sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent
them out,  all of the ones sent from the mail.com
<http://mail.com> got bounced except yours.  What
makes you so special?

On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM
 wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf
Of *Jan-GAMs
        *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com <http://mail.com> users cannot
send you email. How many other's are blocked as
well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our
business since 2012. Virtually no issues at
all aside from a handful of short outages
over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've
NEVER needed to contact them for support. We
also use Google drive and their version of
office apps in the cloud. We don't store any
files locally at all. All business docs are
at Google and they're safe there and they
handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local
email on your own server. It's not worth
your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly
when looking at net profit so spending even
one hour a year trying to manage or fix my
own email server would cost me more than
what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10
free users for gsuite and I pay to upgrade
storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less
than $60 a year to Google for everything.
Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business
use. For customer email, we never offered it
and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail
account and go live your best life not
having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and
such really well, we ju

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

 Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> Content-Language: en-US
>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>> Subject: hellody
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The
>>>> others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned
>>>> your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
>>>> free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were
>>>> sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business
>>>> ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one
>>>> sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the
>>>> ones sent from the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you
>>>> so special?
>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>>>> last 11 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
>>>>> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office 
>>>>> apps
>>>>> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
>>>>> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a 
>>>>> year
>>>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and 
>>>>> go
>>>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
>>>>> dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
>>>>> the Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves
>>>>> for employees and other business email addresses.  It i

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

with SMTP id 
>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>> 
>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>  
>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>  
>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>  
>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>  
>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>  bhLA==
>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>>>> s=arc-20160816;
>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>> 
>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>  
>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>  
>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>  
>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>  
>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>  avNg==
>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>> for 
>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 
>>>> 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 
>>>> id csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>>>> + (UTC)
>>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>> key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>>>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
>>>> 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>>> Subject: hellody
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 20

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Josh Baird]

;>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>  
>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>  
>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>  
>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>  
>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>  avNg==
>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Return-Path: 
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>> for 
>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
>>> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
>>> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>>> + (UTC)
>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>  key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
>>> 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>> Subject: hellody
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The
>>>>> others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned
>>>>> your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
>>>>> free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were
>>>>> sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business
>>>>> ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one
>>>>> sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the
>>>>> ones sent from the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you
>>>>> so special?
>>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmu

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

ogle.com; 
>>> s=arc-20160816;
>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>  
>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>  
>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>  
>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>  
>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>  avNg==
>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Return-Path: 
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>> for 
>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
>>> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
>>> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>>> + (UTC)
>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>  key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
>>> 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>> Subject: hellody
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The
>>>>> others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned
>>>>> your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
>>>>> free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were
>>>>> sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business
>>>>> ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one
>>>>> sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the
>>>>> ones sent from the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you
>>>>> so special?
>>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

Bh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
  
hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
  
jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
  avNg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1;mx.google.com  <http://mx.google.com>;
spf=pass (google.com  <http://google.com>: domain 
ofj.vank...@grnacres.net  designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
Return-Path: 
Received: frommailout.easymail.ca  <http://mailout.easymail.ca>  
(mailout.easymail.ca  <http://mailout.easymail.ca>. [64.68.200.34])
 bymx.google.com  <http://mx.google.com>  with ESMTPS id 
p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
 for 
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
 Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com  <http://google.com>: domain 
ofj.vank...@grnacres.net  designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
client-ip=64.68.200.34;
Authentication-Results:mx.google.com  <http://mx.google.com>;
spf=pass (google.com  <http://google.com>: domain 
ofj.vank...@grnacres.net  designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) 
smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) bymailout.easymail.ca  
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+ (UTC)
Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com  
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with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)
 key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
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; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
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Thunderbird/102.8.0
To:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
Content-Language: en-US
From: Jan-GAMs 
Subject: hellody
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On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
Im probably special cause all my communications get
routed through the FBI servers for my online antics


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs
 wrote:

it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went
through.  The others tested, bounced.  Your address
is different somehow.  You mentioned your gmail is a
paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into
google.  The emails were sent from mail.com
<http://mail.com> and from my own business accounts. 
The business ones went through and the mail.com
<http://mail.com> ones bounced except for the one
sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent
them out,  all of the ones sent from the mail.com
<http://mail.com> got bounced except yours.  What
makes you so special?

On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM
 wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf
Of *Jan-GAMs
        *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com <http://mail.com> users cannot
send you email. How many other's are blocked as
well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our
business since 2012. Virtually no issues at
all aside from a handful of short outages
over the last 11 years.

 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

mEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>  avNg==
>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Return-Path: 
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>> for 
>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
>>> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
>>> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>>> + (UTC)
>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>  key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
>>> 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>> Subject: hellody
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The
>>>>> others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned
>>>>> your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
>>>>> free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were
>>>>> sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business
>>>>> ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one
>>>>> sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the
>>>>> ones sent from the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you
>>>>> so special?
>>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
>> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>> + (UTC)
>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 
>> bits)
>>   key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 
>> 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> Content-Language: en-US
>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>> Subject: hellody
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The
>>>> others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned
>>>> your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
>>>> free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were
>>>> sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business
>>>> ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one
>>>> sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the
>>>> ones sent from the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you
>>>> so special?
>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>>>> last 11 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
>>>>> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office 
>>>>> apps
>>>>> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
>>>>> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a 
>>>>> year
>>>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and 
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

https://kb.easydns.com/knowledge/easymail-spf-and-dkim-records/ cant tell
if mailcom and easymail.ca are the same thing, but if it is, you can
drastically help yourself by setting up DKIM and corresponding dmarc. dont
use words like viagra in emails either

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:36 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> probably should use a mail server thats not still operating like they were
> that long ago. SPF failures, no DKIM in a day where both are required for
> deliverability. you dont have your domain configured correctly either, so
> that part is on you.
>
> Its odd how much someone will fight for the right to allow themselves to
> be impersonated. I personally dont like spam so I like mailhosts that
> enforce long standing industry standards like SPF and DKIM. Its ironic that
> mail.com doesnt support DKIM yet recommends it, specifically to ensure
> deliverability: https://postmaster.mail.com/en/email-policy
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com.  Gmail is
>> blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.
>>
>> I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of
>> doing the same thing.Mail.com was and still is, free.
>>
>> Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.
>> On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> DKIM FTW!!
>> I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
>> move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
>> me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
>> PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
>>> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>>>
>>> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
>>> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
>>> practices for outgoing emails.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>>>> last 11 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
>>>>> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office 
>>>>> apps
>>>>> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
>>>>> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a 
>>>>> year
>>>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and 
>>>>> go
>>>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

probably should use a mail server thats not still operating like they were
that long ago. SPF failures, no DKIM in a day where both are required for
deliverability. you dont have your domain configured correctly either, so
that part is on you.

Its odd how much someone will fight for the right to allow themselves to be
impersonated. I personally dont like spam so I like mailhosts that enforce
long standing industry standards like SPF and DKIM. Its ironic that mail.com
doesnt support DKIM yet recommends it, specifically to ensure
deliverability: https://postmaster.mail.com/en/email-policy

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com.  Gmail is
> blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.
>
> I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of
> doing the same thing.Mail.com was and still is, free.
>
> Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.
> On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> DKIM FTW!!
> I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
> move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
> me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
> PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
>> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>>
>> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
>> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
>> practices for outgoing emails.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>>> last 11 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
>>>> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps
>>>> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
>>>> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
>>>> dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
>>>> the Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves
>>>> for employees

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Seth Mattinen via AF]

On 3/10/23 10:55 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
grnacres.net  doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. 
Thats bad domain deliverability practice, nothing to do with the 
mailhost perse, but if mail.com  doesnt support dkim, 
its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant blame recipient mail servers 
when the root issue is the sending server isnt current. Its like getting 
pissed that somebody doesnt get communications you sent out by telegraph





Whether people personally believe them or not, domains should have the 
holy trinity (SPF, DKIM, and DMARC) when sending to gmail.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

t...@gmail.com
Content-Language: en-US
From: Jan-GAMs 
Subject: hellody
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
Im probably special cause all my communications get routed
through the FBI servers for my online antics


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs
 wrote:

it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went
through.  The others tested, bounced.  Your address is
different somehow.  You mentioned your gmail is a paid-for
account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail type
accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were
sent from mail.com <http://mail.com> and from my own
business accounts.  The business ones went through and the
mail.com <http://mail.com> ones bounced except for the one
sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them
out,  all of the ones sent from the mail.com
<http://mail.com> got bounced except yours.  What makes
you so special?

On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of
*Jan-GAMs
        *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com <http://mail.com> users cannot send you
email.  How many other's are blocked as well?
Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our
business since 2012. Virtually no issues at all
aside from a handful of short outages over the
last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER
needed to contact them for support. We also use
Google drive and their version of office apps in
the cloud. We don't store any files locally at
all. All business docs are at Google and they're
safe there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email
on your own server. It's not worth your time. My
time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
profit so spending even one hour a year trying to
manage or fix my own email server would cost me
more than what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free
users for gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to
100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great
peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use.
For customer email, we never offered it and never
will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
live your best life not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such
really well, we just dealt with it a bunch.
authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed
because the Edsel was before my time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown
via AF  wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the
10-20 email addresses it serves for
employees and other business email
addresses.  It is free that way and we
don’t have to worry about anything else. 
But for some reason the server hangs and
needs to get rebooted, usually about the
same time each day.

Google got difficult, especially for
email chains and other things so we
stopped using them some time ago.  For
example, our scanner stopped being able
to send emails due to something gmail did.

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com. Gmail is 
blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.


I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of 
doing the same thing.    Mail.com was and still is, free.


Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.

On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:

DKIM FTW!!
I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted 
exchange move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability 
issues, pisses me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may 
have given all the PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
 wrote:


I've never heard of mail.com <http://mail.com> but I can assure
you Gmail doesn't block emails that are legitimate and follow
proper SPF and DKIM configurations.

I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The
only ones that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and
don't follow best practices for outgoing emails.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones
 wrote:

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com <http://mail.com> users cannot send you
email.  How many other's are blocked as well?  Oblivion,
must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business
since 2012. Virtually no issues at all aside from a
handful of short outages over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER
needed to contact them for support. We also use Google
drive and their version of office apps in the cloud.
We don't store any files locally at all. All business
docs are at Google and they're safe there and they
handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on
your own server. It's not worth your time. My time is
worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so
spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix
my own email server would cost me more than what I pay
Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users
for gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on
2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to Google for
everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For
customer email, we never offered it and never will.
Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live your
best life not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such
really well, we just dealt with it a bunch.
authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
the Edsel was before my time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20
email addresses it serves for employees and
other business email addresses.  It is free
that way and we don’t have to worry about
anything else.  But for some reason the server
hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about
the same time each day.

Google got difficult, especially for email
chains and other things so we stopped using
them some time ago.  For example, our scanner
stopped being able to send emails due to
something gmail did.

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

        *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

How much is your time worth. The free internal
server is costing you this. We are still using
rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
emails since its same domain and a pita to set
up split routing for the mail. The cost of our
 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

so this shows the problem not being a gmail problem, but a sending domain
problem.

Its no different than web browsers blocking access to unsupported
antiquated ciphers or old java interfaces. Thats not the browsers fault for
following current best practices, its the target items fault for not being
current. Its like saying a Cellco is no good because the nokia 6015 cant
connect to their network anymore. Nobody questions that the 6015 was the
most superior cellphone ever created and probably still has a charge since
its last use, but the world cant be expected to hold back technological
advances because the users dont want to get with the program

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> The following is what I get when I send to anybody with a gmail email 
> EXCEPTION YOU!  And you're right about the other stuff cause it gets 
> mentioned in the failure notice.  The x...@gmail.com is my wife's address 
> that failed, I didn't want that out there in a public forum.  mail.com mail 
> to her gets bounced.  Her mail.com mail gets bounced if she sends to her 
> gmail.com address.
> So what is so special about you?
>
> "This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of
> its recipients. This is a permanent error.
>
> The following address failed:
>
> x...@gmail.com :
> SMTP error from remote server for TEXT command, host: 
> gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.250.128.27) reason: 550-5.7.26 This message 
> does not pass authentication checks (SPF and DKIM
> both
> 550-5.7.26 do not pass). SPF check for [linuxmail.org] does not pass with
> ip:
> 550-5.7.26 [74.208.4.200].To best protect our users from spam, the message
>  has
> 550-5.7.26 been blocked. Please visit
> 550-5.7.26  https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication fo
> r more
> 550 5.7.26 information. i14-20020a02c60e00b003ae7490551esi471413jan.13
> 1 - gsmtp
>
>
> --- The header of the original message is following. ---
>
> Received: from [192.168.2.100] ([47.224.130.187]) by smtp.mail.com (mrgmxus003
>  [74.208.5.15]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LnhN3-1qCUwz0lzT-00htTF for
>   ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 19:17:02 +0100
> Message-ID: <43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org> 
> <43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org>
> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 10:17:01 -0800"
>
>
> On 3/10/23 09:57, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>
> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
> practices for outgoing emails.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>> last 11 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer e

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

icked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from
>>> the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>>> last 11 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
>>>> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps
>>>> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
>>>> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
>>>> dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
>>>> the Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves
>>>> for employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and
>>>> we don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>>>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so
>>>> we stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped
>>>> being able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>>>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>>>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>>>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>>>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>>>> administrative stuff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look
>>>> at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems
>>>> than my email. Im a nerd, 20 y

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id
bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
 TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
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 jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
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b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
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 jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
 avNg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
   spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net
designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender)
smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
Return-Path: 
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by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
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for 
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To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
Content-Language: en-US
From: Jan-GAMs 
Subject: hellody
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the FBI
> servers for my online antics
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
>> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
>> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
>> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
>> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
>> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I
>> picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from the
>> mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>&

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the FBI
servers for my online antics


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I
> picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from the
> mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> i got your spam emails this morning
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
>> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>
>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
>> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
>> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
>> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will wor

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

The following is what I get when I send to anybody with a gmail email EXCEPTION 
YOU!  And you're right about the other stuff cause it gets mentioned in the 
failure notice.  t...@gmail.com  is my wife's address that failed, I didn't 
want that out there in a public forum.  mail.com mail to her gets bounced.  Her 
mail.com mail gets bounced if she sends to her gmail.com address.
So what is so special about you?

"This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of
its recipients. This is a permanent error.

The following address failed:

x...@gmail.com:
SMTP error from remote server for TEXT command, host: 
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.250.128.27) reason: 550-5.7.26 This message 
does not pass authentication checks (SPF and DKIM
both
550-5.7.26 do not pass). SPF check for [linuxmail.org] does not pass with
ip:
550-5.7.26 [74.208.4.200].To best protect our users from spam, the message
 has
550-5.7.26 been blocked. Please visit
550-5.7.26https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication  fo
r more
550 5.7.26 information. i14-20020a02c60e00b003ae7490551esi471413jan.13
1 - gsmtp


--- The header of the original message is following. ---

Received: from [192.168.2.100] ([47.224.130.187]) by smtp.mail.com (mrgmxus003
 [74.208.5.15]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LnhN3-1qCUwz0lzT-00htTF for
 ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 19:17:02 +0100
Message-ID:<43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org>
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 10:17:01 -0800"

On 3/10/23 09:57, Darin Steffl wrote:
I've never heard of mail.com <http://mail.com> but I can assure you 
Gmail doesn't block emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF 
and DKIM configurations.


I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only 
ones that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't 
follow best practices for outgoing emails.


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones  
wrote:


i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com <http://mail.com> users cannot send you email. 
How many other's are blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since
2012. Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of
short outages over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed
to contact them for support. We also use Google drive and
their version of office apps in the cloud. We don't store
any files locally at all. All business docs are at Google
and they're safe there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your
own server. It's not worth your time. My time is worth
$550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so spending
even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own email
server would cost me more than what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for
gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users
so we pay less than $60 a year to Google for everything.
Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For
customer email, we never offered it and never will. Just
recommend a free Gmail account and go live your best life
not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really
well, we just dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP.
I dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was before
my time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email
addresses it serves for employees and other
business email addresses. It is free that way and
we don’t have to worry about anything else.  But
for some reason the server hangs and needs to get
rebooted, usually about the same time each day.

Google got difficult, especially for email chains
and other things so we stopped using them some
time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
able to send emails due to something gmail did.

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

DKIM FTW!!
I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>
> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
> practices for outgoing emails.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>> last 11 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>>> administrative stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others 
tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your 
gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail 
type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent 
from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went 
through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I 
picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from 
the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?


On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
*Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 All mail.com <http://mail.com> users cannot send you email.  How
many other's are blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since
2012. Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short
outages over the last 11 years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to
contact them for support. We also use Google drive and their
version of office apps in the cloud. We don't store any files
locally at all. All business docs are at Google and they're
safe there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own
server. It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr
roughly when looking at net profit so spending even one hour a
year trying to manage or fix my own email server would cost me
more than what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for
gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so
we pay less than $60 a year to Google for everything. Dirt
cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For customer
email, we never offered it and never will. Just recommend a
free Gmail account and go live your best life not having to
support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones
 wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well,
we just dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I
dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was before my
time :-)

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email
addresses it serves for employees and other business
email addresses.  It is free that way and we don’t
have to worry about anything else.  But for some
reason the server hangs and needs to get rebooted,
usually about the same time each day.

Google got difficult, especially for email chains and
other things so we stopped using them some time ago. 
For example, our scanner stopped being able to send
emails due to something gmail did.

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

How much is your time worth. The free internal server
is costing you this. We are still using rackspace for
subscriber mail and our office emails since its same
domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who
have dropped service but wanted to keep their email,
we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
administrative stuff.

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per
user. The way I look at it is if im not making 6 bucks
per guy a month I have bigger problems than my email.
Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email
servers would have been a blast. but now its like
maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i can
still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its
not that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste
of time.

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of
any resources unless your monetizing it. too large an
attack vector

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

It is only for our own company

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.

I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
practices for outgoing emails.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> i got your spam emails this morning
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
>> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>
>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
>> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
>> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
>> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
>> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>
>>
>>
>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>
> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
> years.
>
>
>
> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>
>
>
> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>
>
>
> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay
> to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to
> Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>
>
>
> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
> live your best life not having to support email.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
> Edsel was before my time :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>
>
>
> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this.
> We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails
> since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The
> cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but
> wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
> administrative stuff.
>
>
>
> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>
>
>
> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tyson Burris
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
> *Online: www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>*
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras
> - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any re

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[dmmoffett]

Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

 All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked as 
well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.

On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually no 
issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11 years. 

 

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them for 
support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in the 
cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are at Google 
and they're safe there and they handle the backups.

 

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's not 
worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net profit so 
spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own email server would 
cost me more than what I pay Google.

 

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay to 
upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to Google 
for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

 

This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we never 
offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live your 
best life not having to support email.

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt with 
it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the Edsel was 
before my time :-)  

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for 
employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we don’t 
have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server hangs and 
needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.  

 

Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we 
stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being able 
to send emails due to something gmail did.  

 

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this. We 
are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails since its 
same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The cost of our 
mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but wanted to keep their 
email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any administrative stuff. 

 

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at it is 
if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than my email. 
Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would have been a 
blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i can 
still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that complicated, but 
its nonetheless a dumb waste of time. 

 

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources unless 
your monetizing it. too large an attack vector

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.  

 

 

 

From: Tyson Burris 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Office # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>  

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steven Kenney via AF
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Steven Kenney mailto:st...@wavedirect.org> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free though.  
Extremely granular configuration options. 

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

We used Icewarp since 2004 without iss

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

 All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are 
blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.


On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. 
Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over 
the last 11 years.


It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact 
them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office 
apps in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All 
business docs are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the 
backups.


I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. 
It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when 
looking at net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to 
manage or fix my own email server would cost me more than what I pay 
Google.


We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I 
pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a 
year to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.


This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we 
never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account 
and go live your best life not having to support email.


On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones  
wrote:


O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed
because the Edsel was before my time :-)




On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it
serves for employees and other business email addresses.  It
is free that way and we don’t have to worry about anything
else.  But for some reason the server hangs and needs to get
rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other
things so we stopped using them some time ago.  For example,
our scanner stopped being able to send emails due to something
gmail did.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
How much is your time worth. The free internal server is
costing you this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber
mail and our office emails since its same domain and a pita to
set up split routing for the mail. The cost of our mail is
covered by the folks who have dropped service but wanted to
keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
administrative stuff.
for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The
way I look at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I
have bigger problems than my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago
dicking around with email servers would have been a blast. but
now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i
can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not
that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any
resources unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:

It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
*From:* Tyson Burris
*Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good
product.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven
Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Steven Kenney 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

Only thing i have a problem with on gmail is I cant integrate onenote and
theres no actually comparable app

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:15 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
> years.
>
> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>
> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>
> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay
> to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to
> Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>
> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
> live your best life not having to support email.
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>>
>>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>>> administrative stuff.
>>>
>>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look
>>> at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems
>>> than my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers
>>> would have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered
>>> inverter just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its
>>> not that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>>
>>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>>
>>>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>>>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: ICI]
>>>>
>>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>>>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay
to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to
Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we never
offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live
your best life not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
> Edsel was before my time :-)
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
>> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>
>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: ICI]
>>>
>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>> *prohibited.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
Edsel was before my time :-)




On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>
> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this.
> We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails
> since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The
> cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but
> wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
> administrative stuff.
>
> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>
> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free
>> though.  Extremely granular configuration options.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth
>> of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective
>> for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> --
>>
>> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
>> af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs
>> all the time these days.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments,
>> is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jan-GAMs]

All mail from mail.com gets blocked by gmail.  Have not been able to 
resolve issue for many months.  I don't see why I should quit mail.com 
to allow gmail to be my overlord.  "F" them!


On 3/9/23 11:50, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:


I understand your point here.

We still have Icewarp running for a handful of legacy things, but 
we’re actually on Office365 for company email.  I largely agree with 
Steve on this.  It’s not worth your trouble to run a mail server anymore.


Office365 has really aggressive spam filtering, you pretty much won’t 
get any spam if you use Office365.  If you’re the guy with his own 
mail server it’s almost inevitable that Microsoft blocks you at some 
point for something that seems stupid.  They are trigger happy a-holes 
about blocking things, but /that’s how they stop all the rest of us 
from getting spam./   They’re the hammer and everyone else is the 
nail.  1.3 million businesses in the US use Office365 and 87% of 
business email users are using Outlook.


Join the collective.  The Puppet Masters are benevolent overlords.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2023 2:00 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves 
for employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way 
and we don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason 
the server hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same 
time each day.


Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so 
we stopped using them some time ago. For example, our scanner stopped 
being able to send emails due to something gmail did.


*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you 
this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office 
emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for 
the mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have 
dropped service but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a 
tidy profit to cover any administrative stuff.


for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look 
at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger 
problems than my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with 
email servers would have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a 
battery powered inverter just so i can still use my corded drill. I 
can, it will work, its not that complicated, but its nonetheless a 
dumb waste of time.


dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources 
unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector


On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:


It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.

*From:*Tyson Burris

*Sent:*Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Office #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* Steven Kenney 
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free
though. Extremely granular configuration options.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett 
wrote:

We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had
thousandth of accounts on it, but now just a handful.

Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not
cost effective for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for
internal email.

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>



*From:*AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown
via AF 
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Cc:* Chuck McCown 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[dmmoffett]

I understand your point here.  

We still have Icewarp running for a handful of legacy things, but we’re 
actually on Office365 for company email.  I largely agree with Steve on this.  
It’s not worth your trouble to run a mail server anymore.  

 

Office365 has really aggressive spam filtering, you pretty much won’t get any 
spam if you use Office365.  If you’re the guy with his own mail server it’s 
almost inevitable that Microsoft blocks you at some point for something that 
seems stupid.  They are trigger happy a-holes about blocking things, but that’s 
how they stop all the rest of us from getting spam.   They’re the hammer and 
everyone else is the nail.  1.3 million businesses in the US use Office365 and 
87% of business email users are using Outlook.  

 

Join the collective.  The Puppet Masters are benevolent overlords.  

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2023 2:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for 
employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we don’t 
have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server hangs and 
needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.  

 

Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we 
stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being able 
to send emails due to something gmail did.  

 

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this. We 
are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails since its 
same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The cost of our 
mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but wanted to keep their 
email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any administrative stuff. 

 

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at it is 
if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than my email. 
Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would have been a 
blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i can 
still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that complicated, but 
its nonetheless a dumb waste of time. 

 

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources unless 
your monetizing it. too large an attack vector

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.  

 

 

 

From: Tyson Burris 

Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Office # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>  

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steven Kenney via AF
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Steven Kenney mailto:st...@wavedirect.org> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free though.  
Extremely granular configuration options. 

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth of 
accounts on it, but now just a handful.

 

Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective for 
hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.

 

 

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> 


  _  


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] mail servers 

 

We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs all 
the time these days.  

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Chuck McCown via AF]

I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for 
employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we don’t 
have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server hangs and 
needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.  

Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we 
stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being able 
to send emails due to something gmail did.  


From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this. We 
are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails since its 
same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The cost of our 
mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but wanted to keep their 
email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any administrative stuff. 

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at it is 
if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than my email. 
Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would have been a 
blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter just so i can 
still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that complicated, but 
its nonetheless a dumb waste of time. 

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources unless 
your monetizing it. too large an attack vector

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.  



  From: Tyson Burris 
  Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

  Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.



  Tyson Burris, President 
  Internet Communications Inc. 
  739 Commerce Dr. 
  Franklin, IN 46131 

  Office # 317-738-0320 
  Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
  Online: www.surfici.net 





  What can ICI do for you? 


  Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 

  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
  addressee shown. It contains information that is 
  confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
  dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
  unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
  prohibited. 



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney via AF
  Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Steven Kenney 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers



  Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free though.  
Extremely granular configuration options. 



  On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth 
of accounts on it, but now just a handful.



Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective 
for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.





Get Outlook for iOS




From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] mail servers 



We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs 
all the time these days.  



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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this.
We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails
since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The
cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but
wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
administrative stuff.

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources unless
your monetizing it. too large an attack vector

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Tyson Burris
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras
> - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free
> though.  Extremely granular configuration options.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth
> of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>
>
>
> Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective
> for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.
>
>
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> --
>
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs
> all the time these days.
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Chuck McCown via AF]

It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.  



From: Tyson Burris 
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Office # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney via AF
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Steven Kenney 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

 

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free though.  
Extremely granular configuration options. 

 

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth of 
accounts on it, but now just a handful.

   

  Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective for 
hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.

   

   

  Get Outlook for iOS


--

  From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF 

  Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Cc: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: [AFMUG] mail servers 

   

  We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs all 
the time these days.  

   

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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Jaime Solorza]

https://youtu.be/RUaYbfKZIiA

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 5:17 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth
> of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>
> Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective
> for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
>
> We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs
> all the time these days.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Tyson Burris]

Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Office # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras - 
Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney via AF
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Steven Kenney 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free though.  
Extremely granular configuration options.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth of 
accounts on it, but now just a handful.

Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective for 
hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.


Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of 
Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com<mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] mail servers

We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs all 
the time these days.

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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Nate Burke]

We also Run Icewarp since at least 2001 when I started.  It just works.  
But not cheap.  The Per user licensing sucks now.  It's now geared as an 
Exchange competitor for enterprise, not simple POP/IMAP server like when 
we started.  We were on an unlimited users/domains license forever, they 
put us into a 1000 user license now so we effectively have 'unlimited' 
we only use a few hundred seats. $2000/year.


On 3/9/2023 7:36 AM, Steven Kenney via AF wrote:
Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free 
though.  Extremely granular configuration options.


On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had
thousandth of accounts on it, but now just a handful.

Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost
effective for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.


Get Outlook for iOS 

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com  mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there. 
It hangs all the time these days.
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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steven Kenney via AF]

Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free though.
Extremely granular configuration options.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth
> of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>
> Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective
> for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
>
> We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs
> all the time these days.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>

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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Adam Moffett]

We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth of 
accounts on it, but now just a handful.

Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective for 
hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.


Get Outlook for iOS

From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] mail servers

We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs all 
the time these days.

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