[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
opaqueice;151344 Wrote: Hi Tom, if it's not too much trouble, would you mind giving a few more details on your test? Specifically: Did you make sure the volumes were level, and if so, how? (This question is absolutely crucial!) How did you blind it - did a third person make the switch? Could you see them? Were there ten trials where you each recorded a guess, or did you do ten for one person and then ten more for the other? Could you switch back and forth on each trial and do an ABX or ABXY, or did you just listen once and guess? I'm asking this not because I don't trust your integrity - I do - but only so that I (and perhaps others) can evaluate how much significance to give the results. It's very interesting that you heard a difference. I see no reason that there shouldn't be one - the fact that there are switching PS's inside the SB clearly does NOT mean it's impossible for the main PS to make a difference. On the matter of volume levels: All sorts of junk that makes it into the digital signal will ADD to the spectral contents (same with any distortion, BTW). Hence, getting rid of this junk will make the signal seem quieter. If one doesn't turn up the volume to compensate, the increased swamping from aucoustic room noise, and ones ears' accustomisation to previous levels -which is frequency dependent, may well, in a typical A/B, make the more distorted signal sound subjectively better than the more correct one! However, after turning up the volume to comfortable levels one might find that the duller sound with less distortion now sounds more natural and non-straining. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: S/PDIF Optical output does not work wit DVD
DCtoDaylight;151409 Wrote: I seem to recall reading somewhere that 10m was the longest length allowed by the TOSLINK spec? Of course now that I'm looking, I can't find it! In any event, when you start pushing the lengths, you're more and more likely to find marginal components It depends on the quality of the cable. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29247 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Using TP as DAC
highdudgeon;151261 Wrote: I don't quite understand the TP's jitter rejection scheme. However, it is obviously so good, and the analog output so good, that it doesn't matter. I definitely prefer the all-in-one-box solution...and I was prepared to prefer the two box solution and see the Transporter as a compromise. I'm an engineer, so I simply can't do well having only feedbacks in hand. Perception is important, but unreliable, and for me it should be confirmed somehow, at least theoretically - by correct design. As long as I don't have any clue what Transporter does with incoming jitter I feel uncomfortable. -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp simaudio moon i-5 revel performa m20 via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori -planned additions: sb3 deq2496 lavry da-10 ... or will it be transporter?- 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29221 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
OK, here goes again. Brain burn in does not remotely explain it to me. If I put a new component in place and it sounds hideous and unmusical for a week or two, how come when I go to an audiophile mate's place and listen to his (burned in) system it sounds great? How come my brain doesn't need to burn in for his system but does with mine? And to all you placebo lovers, do I somehow expect that the shiny new $5000 preamp will sound like rubbish when I get it home? That certainly wasn't what I was thinking when I flashed out my credit card. And do I somehow expect my friend's system to sound good? I know you hate to think there isn't anything you don't know about wires and electrons, but that's a bit of a stretch don't you think? -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Effect of cleaning up power?
Simon;135133 Wrote: I have built a couple of these http://www.triode-systems.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=4 over the years... it has proved a massive upgrade I have something simliar (a bit chunkier) feeding my power amp. Very noticeably better than without. And cheap too! -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27255 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
peejay;151446 Wrote: I don't wish to distract anyone from this exchange, and I certainly cannot offer much more than I already have to this thread on the topic, but I can't help noticing how discussions over power supplies seem to bring out the most animated opinons (if anyone remembers the fabled 'flame wars' thread, which was dubbed so from a discussion on exactly the same topic which got 'out of hand' and a moderator had to step in), at least on the Slim Devices forum. Either this is a sublte on-line experiment on the human grasp of AC/DC conversion techiques and its effect on audio content as discussed by audiophiles, or we are seeing somthing else completely.:-) This is a light-hearted post and therefore should not be a candidate for a serious response. Well, here is a serious response anyway! A power supply is not just a AC/DC converter. It is a power reservoir whose properties can vary a lot. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Using TP as DAC
Radiohead White Stripes sounding good ist exactly what I needed to know. It's important that not only hi-end bing-bang jazz works with these dacs, but also real down to earth good music. Thanks! Topa. -- topa topa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7118 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29221 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
opaqueice;151461 Wrote: Well, here we're mainly trying to determine if there is a difference at all. Deciding which is better, as you are pointing out, is tricky and another question entirely. I was worried that one SB might simply be slightly louder than the other. This could happen 1) because one of the SBs is intrisically louder than the other due to some variations in the calibrations of the DAC chip outputs or something, or 2) because the two power supplies output a slightly different average voltage, which might change the SB output voltage slightly but have no other effect. Case 1) I think is ruled out as an explanation because (if I understood correctly) they switched the two half way through, but is still important to get straight. 2) however could explain the results, and while it would mean there *is* a difference, not in a very interesting way (for example if this was the case you could make the linear supply sound worse or better in the test by changing its voltage). I think strict A/B is useful to establish if a difference exists, as you say. But sometimes the difference is very, very obvious, in which case A/B becomes pretty meaningless. Sometimes A/B with level matching is used to try to appoint a winner in a test, and that is a big no-no, IMO. Also, a negative A/B doesn't prove one iota. The real test of a system's quality is how many hours at live level one can listen without getting tired. (Unless one has defective hearing, in which case all tests are meaningless.) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
opaqueice;151460 Wrote: Whether something sounds good could depend on what you ate for breakfast, whether the sun is shining, if the Republicans won the election, if there is some wax in your left ear it's not about brain burn in (although there are well-known adpatation effects in perception), it's simply that human beings are not very consistent, except in one aspect - we are very very very consistent and good at fooling ourselves. In particular we are extremely good at constructing explanations for our beliefs and perceptions even in situations where those explanations are demonstrably false (there's an enormous literature in cognitive psychology on this, which I can point you to if you're interested). We also suffer from confirmation bias - once we have a theory in mind (such as components burn in and improve over time) we remember events which support this theory, and forget those that do not, and so given random data our confidence in the theory grows. I suspect that's what's going on here... but in any case the only way to use our ears reliably is with properly conducted blind tests, because that's the only way to filter out all of these other factors. I believe Jenks is describing actual sound differences, but I'm not sure they have much to do with burn in. I think most audiophiles are able to disregard a certain amount of bias due to mood etc. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
...and do not forget to take the wife along when purchasing speakers , given the size of japanese living rooms, she might object to moving the sofa into the kitchen to make place for the new purchase... -- Darkblue Darkblue's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4668 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
The best kind of amp, I think, is the kind of amp that will allow you to buy the best possible speakers within your overall budget. There are differences in amps, to be sure, and they are especially obvious when comparing tube and solid state amps (which says something about amp construction, because ideally made amps should all sound alike). However, differences between speakers are vast. I have had everything from $9 McIntosh MC-501s and a used $450 Carver A-500x paired with superlative Harbeth Monitor 40s and two Quads. The changes in speakers made more of a difference and the differences between amps was shockingly nuanced. In short, take a look at your total budget, think about what you like in music, take your room into consideration, and then pick out some optimal speakers. Buy a less expensive amp. Then, when you have more budget flexibility, by a cooler-looking, longer-living, etc., amplifier. (I have nothing against buying something because you like the way it looks...so long as you're not totally throwing your money away.) Oh, and I would say this: maybe stay away from tube amps. They don't have the same bass response and high resolution as well-made solid state amps. I'm not dissing them, either -- I own, and love, two tube amps. However, the Transporter is an extremely high definition device...so you might as well let that come through. You can always grab a tube amp (a vintage Mc is great) for a second piece down the road. I like having tube gear around. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
opaqueice;151490 Wrote: Suppose we put a bunch of audiophiles in a room and played two systems for them after explaining that one was much better than the other - because it had fancy cables, power conditioners, a nice amp, or whatever. We might make the systems look different externally, but secretly the two would be absolutely identical. To properly control this we would do the experiment with several different groups while randomizing across all variables (for example switch which system we explained was superior). We might also try the same experiment but with no initial claim about which was better. Afterwards, we ask the listeners which they preferred, and to explain why. What do you think would happen? Not only would almost everyone claim to hear a difference, they would come up with elaborate descriptions of precisely how it was better - clarity, PRaT, detail, bass extension, etc. If you don't believe me, believe the scientific literature or all of the many, many examples of this in the audiophile world (on this forum and other websites for example). Versions of this experiment have been done, many times, and the results are always the same. The point? In this case it would be absolutely clear that the perceived differences were in the mind of the listener and not in any intrinsic characteristic of the sound. Given that people hear differences anyway, this demonstrates that we simply can't trust our perceptions of these things, period. Should you qualify the above by saying subtle differences , or somewhat subtle differences? Might the question be: At what level of difference does the ear/mind begin to fail us in distinguishing differences? An extreme example would be a transistor radio (remember those? :-) ) against a 100,000 system. I think most people would do well on that test. :-) It would be interesting to see a study on this. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
opaqueice;151493 Wrote: I don't agree it's a no-no. In fact I don't know how you would possibly decide which you like better other than by A/B - the only alternative is to only listen to one, which would make the decision rather meaningless... Probably you mean rapid switching between them(?), but that's neither necessary nor advisable for an A/B comparison. I'm not going to get into this argument again, but that statement is precisely as true as its converse: a positive A/B doesn't prove one iota. Statements which are as true as their converse aren't very interesting. Now you are just being silly! If you can't tell the difference between two components, all you can say is that you (you, in your system) can't tell the difference. Thats it. As I said, A/B with level matching is useless for picking a winner. I stated exactly why earlier. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
tomjtx;151496 Wrote: Should you qualify the above by saying subtle differences , or somewhat subtle differences? Might the question be: At what level of difference does the ear/mind begin to fail us in distinguishing differences? An extreme example would be a transistor radio (remember those? :-) ) against a 100,000 system. I think most people would do well on that test. :-) It would be interesting to see a study on this. Yeah, I avoided qualifying it for purely polemical reasons :-). Of course I agree that some differences really are obvious, like transistor radios or heavy distortion. But I also think it's not as easy as you might think to decide when a difference you percieve is obvious and when it isn't. I wonder if there's a skill there - probably psychologists would call it metacognition - of learning to recognize when things really are there versus when they might be your brain fooling you. If you've ever messed around with, say, foobar with the ABXY plugin, at least if you're like me you'll find that many times you think there's a clear difference, even an obvious one, and then miserably fail to identify it on a blind test. After a few such failures you become considerably more skeptical about this. So it would be quite interesting to see if people can learn to be skeptical to the right degree, so that they can determine when to trust their perceptions and when not. Actually I think all of us have a lot to learn from this - it's pretty humbling to discover how bad we are at judging reality, and knowing that such errors are common is crucial in just about every aspect of life. P Floding Wrote: I'm not talking about these type of situations that are bound to cloud most peoples judgement. Which situations are you talking about then? The point is we percieve differences when none exist. So if someone percieves a difference when logic and science tell us it's extremely unlikely, the overwhelmingly preferred explanation is that it's in their head. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Jenks;151437 Wrote: OK, here goes again. Brain burn in does not remotely explain it to me. If I put a new component in place and it sounds hideous and unmusical for a week or two, how come when I go to an audiophile mate's place and listen to his (burned in) system it sounds great? How come my brain doesn't need to burn in for his system but does with mine? And to all you placebo lovers, do I somehow expect that the shiny new $5000 preamp will sound like rubbish when I get it home? That certainly wasn't what I was thinking when I flashed out my credit card. And do I somehow expect my friend's system to sound good? I know you hate to think there isn't anything you don't know about wires and electrons, but that's a bit of a stretch don't you think? In all cases mentioned you are going into the situation with specific expectations. You know your friend has had his system for years, therefore it is already burned-in by your definition, therefore you expect it to sound good. Your system has some new $5k component (nevermind how many times it has been demoed at the store or been in someone else's system) that hasn't been burned-in, so you expect it to sound like crap, then after days or weeks, your expectation is that it will sound better, so it magically does. The stretch is in imagining that something in the equipment changes more than your expectations. Human minds are easy to fool- ever see slight-of-hand magic performed? If it is so easy for someone else to fool us, imagine how much easier it is to fool ourselves. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Wanted to Buy: Modded PS for SB3
I'd like to buy a Bolder modded Elpac power supply.. If someone is upgrading to a Transporter, or what ever pleae let me know. And yes I know I could buy the PS and send it off but I'm lazy :-) -- ErikM ErikM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7576 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29280 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
opaqueice;151514 Wrote: I wonder if there's a skill there - probably psychologists would call it metacognition - of learning to recognize when things really are there versus when they might be your brain fooling you. If you've ever messed around with, say, foobar with the ABXY plugin, at least if you're like me you'll find that many times you think there's a clear difference, even an obvious one, and then miserably fail to identify it on a blind test. After a few such failures you become considerably more skeptical about this. So it would be quite interesting to see if people can learn to be skeptical to the right degree, so that they can determine when to trust their perceptions and when not. Actually I think all of us have a lot to learn from this - it's pretty humbling to discover how bad we are at judging reality, and knowing that such errors are common is crucial in just about every aspect of life. It seems some people are inherently better at recognizing reality than others, and those who aren't, are not very good at learning to do so. See http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
tyler_durden;151519 Wrote: Human minds are easy to fool- ever see slight-of-hand magic performed? If it is so easy for someone else to fool us, imagine how much easier it is to fool ourselves. Just for my own interest - optical illusions are commonplace, is there such a thing as an audio illusion? EDIT yes there is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_illusion BTW, this is my faveourite optical illusion - square A *is* the same colour as square B. You need to download it into a paint package to verify the colour is the same no matter what your eyes are telling you! +---+ |Filename: Optical.greysquares.arp.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1921| +---+ -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
CardinalFang;151522 Wrote: BTW, this is my faveourite optical illusion - square A *is* the same colour as square B. You need to download it into a paint package to verify the colour is the same no matter what your eyes are telling you! That's a very good one - thanks! -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
peejay;150623 Wrote: I recently invested in a 12V lead acid battery - completely sealed so 'clean' for a domestic environment, purchased a DC-DC regulator and am VERY happy with the result. How did it affect the music - In every way an AC supply cannot. Take my advice and look at battery solutions. You only use them when you are really listening, so the longevity of the supply isn't important. I have a 7 Amp Hour battery which keeps going for about 6 hours from fully charged - I lose battery energy from the heat sink on my supply pack, so I don't get the rated performance from the battery. My solution uses the ubiquitous LM317 regulator - does a great job. Ask me about it anytime. Cheers I'm very interested in learning more about this battery solution. I've asked about this here before, but received replies that kind of discouraged the idea. What do folks here think about chemical reaction noise, non-sinusoidal waves and other battery issues? It always seemed to me that straight DC power would be an almost ideal power source. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28637highlight=battery -- Gildahl Gildahl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4102 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
That's a solid piece and you can probably get a good deal on a used or demo model. gobikey;151516 Wrote: I like the looks and sound of this by my silver transporter. http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/205krell -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
CardinalFang;151522 Wrote: Just for my own interest - optical illusions are commonplace, is there such a thing as an audio illusion? EDIT yes there is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_illusion fascinating link, thanks for that -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Wanted to Buy: Modded PS for SB3
Same here. I am also in the market for a Bolder modded Elpac. I was planning on buying one and sending it to Bolder for modification but time constraints (ie work) are making this increasingly difficult. In addition, what time I do have, is spent trying to acquire slightly more important components for my system --- such as new speaker stands! El Duderino -- El Duderino El Duderino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8171 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29280 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Wanted to Buy: Modded PS for SB3
As far as time and effort goes, just order one from digikey and have it sent directly to Wayne. After I placed the order for mine, I just sat back and less than a week later it was at my door. It couldn't be any easier. And IMO it is totally worth it. -- happy happy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8253 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29280 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
CardinalFang;151561 Wrote: Following the links on Wikipedia led to this short piece from the German Magazine AUDIO that is very revealing: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=676404 Oh - here's the link to a page to help you determine what type of response to music you have: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t40690.html Very interesting, thank you very much for that post. I'll run it by some of our acustics profs to see if they are familiar with these studies. Peoples response to the online test are interesting. Seems their musical predilections are not always what they should be according to the German test. Of course we all know the German's are pretty wierd :-) I mean, they never jaywalk ;-) My favorite instruments are classical guitar(let's hope so), violin and cello. But I really like all instruments and many genres of music ( even my kid's hip/hop, love idlewild and dangermouse's grey album) The composer's or interpreters musical intentions are now more important to me than the medium (instrument.) Perhaps experience(either as listener and/or musician) can affect our organic predilections? I guess this would be a nature versus nurture debate. Can you imagine what this could do to the high end industry, get tested , go to designers of that kind of equipment, audio nirvana gauranteed :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
P Floding;151499 Wrote: As I said, A/B with level matching is useless for picking a winner. I stated exactly why earlier. I'm with Phil here. A/B is great for showing differences, but what does that mean? I find I have to live for a system for quite some before I can really decide if it's better. Yes there are often gross differences in tonality, but these don't really mean anything. I can thoroughly enjoy radically different systems; there's no single 'best', IMO. The stuff I buy is the stuff that allows me to really enjoy the music, and a wide range of music at that, within my value for money envelope. I need to have a system that I can enjoy for hours on end, not one that sounds impressive in a five-minute A/B. Adam -- adamslim SB3 and Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Some great posts and links here, thanks to all. I'm now looking forward to going to my audio dealer and being given an audio test before they'll recommend anything! Ceejay -- ceejay ceejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=148 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
highdudgeon;151495 Wrote: Oh, and I would say this: maybe stay away from tube amps. They don't have the same bass response and high resolution as well-made solid state amps. Outrageous flamebait :D Listen for yourself is all. Krell stuff is highly respected, but the last Krell I heard sounded laughably bland to my ears. If I owned it, I'd never play music. But that's my ears - highdudgeon's are undoubtedly different (although his choice in speakers is better ;) ), and yours will be too. It's like women. Look around, have fun, and buy the one you fall in love with. Rest assured it will be more expensive than you intended :) Adam -- adamslim SB3 and Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
When I said brains burn in, what I meant was that over time you can become accustomed to almost anythingto the point where it ceases to be as obvious or intrusive as it was when you first noticed it. The human brain is fantastically good at adaptive filtering (especially on sight and sound). That's why many people people do not think they need glasses until they go for a eye test - the brain (working harder than normal) fills in a lot of missing information. Same goes for hearing loss. Likewise, annoying/distracting things can be selectively filtered out. However, it takes the brain a while of pattern crunching as it iterates towards the construction of really good filters. In that period things do not sound right. Eventually adequate filters are implemented and things are OK again...until something disturbs the accuracy of the filtering process (like a new component). Then the filters need time to adjust. Please don't take this opinion to infer that I think everything sounds the same (it doesn't). It's simply that we are talking about a highly personal and subjective experience, so don't expect everyone to hear the same things or for everyone to agree on better/worse. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
None of your explanations fit my experiences. I don't intend to document them here because I don't have to prove anything to you. What I am more interested in is your closed minds. Primarily this is a forum for people to express their experiences, not a forum for scientific proof, so won't bother with that. So far I haven't insulted your right to express your opinions - instead mine have been subjected to your condescending claims I must be deluded because you know more about physics than I do. Are you sure about that? Are you also the sort of scientists that believe all competently designed cables and amps sound the same? That believe power cords cannot affect the sound of a system, that vibration does not affect the sound as it passes through electronics? By the way, in answer to various questions - yes I have tried changing cable direction, sometimes accidentally, tried taking a buring in item to a friend's place, and if you knew my friend, you would realise expecting my friend's sytem to always be made up of old components would be an error. As I say, you don't have to accept my reports of my experiences, and nor do I have to provide double blind test documentation to prove anything to you. You express your opinion - I express mine. That's as much as I am going to do here. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
tomjtx;151570 Wrote: I guess this would be a nature versus nurture debate.I would have to agree - I like a lot of what I grew up listening to - Motown, 60's pop and glam as well as a lot of acoustic and rock. In fact I have a bit of everything in my collection, but I do like things that my wife hates :-) tomjtx;151570 Wrote: Can you imagine what this could do to the high end industry, get tested , go to designers of that kind of equipment, audio nirvana gauranteed :-)Well doesn't this explain what happens already - companies have a house sound that some people love and others hate. Why do some think valve amps with lower power at the low end are the bees knees and others love heavyweight transistor amps with thumping bass? Is it because the valve freaks can create the low end that isn't there in their brains? The most interesting part to me is that part of the audio industry already understand this effect - small speaker manufacturers who tune speakers so that it's easier for the brain to create the missing low frequency fundemental. -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
adamslim;151574 Wrote: Listen for yourself is all. Krell stuff is highly respected, but the last Krell I heard sounded laughably bland to my ears. Give me a tube amp any day of the week! ;-) -- JackOfAll JackOfAll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3069 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
adamslim;151571 Wrote: I can thoroughly enjoy radically different systems; there's no single 'best', IMO. Absolutely agree! I'm lucky enough to have the space for two independent systems, one with cone speakers high-power transistor amps (BW + Krell), the other with electrostatic speakers low-power valves amps (QUAD). I don't find one better than the other, they are simply (very enjoyably) different ... [There is, of course, a Squeezebox amongst the sources in both systems :-)] Mike -- reeve_mike reeve_mike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=995 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
CardinalFang;151561 Wrote: Following the links on Wikipedia led to this short piece from the German Magazine AUDIO that is very revealing: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=676404 Oh - here's the link to a page to help you determine what type of response to music you have: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t40690.html Most interesting! In my first test I got 8 wrong which means I lean towards being an overtone hearer. However I think environmental noise may interfer with the test as I managed to hear the same test case differently while my wife did the test (she too seemed to be an overtone hearer). Enivironmental noise in this case was mainly my young son making lots of noise.. This could explain one or two things about why people hear things so differently. Especially since there seems to be a sliding scale between those that add a fundamental and those who don't. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
adamslim;151571 Wrote: I'm with Phil here. A/B is great for showing differences, but what does that mean? I find I have to live for a system for quite some before I can really decide if it's better. Yes there are often gross differences in tonality, but these don't really mean anything. I can thoroughly enjoy radically different systems; there's no single 'best', IMO. The stuff I buy is the stuff that allows me to really enjoy the music, and a wide range of music at that, within my value for money envelope. I need to have a system that I can enjoy for hours on end, not one that sounds impressive in a five-minute A/B. Adam When it comes to comparing systems an impressive, but flawed, reproduction can win. I read an interesting article about this on a site of a loudspeaker manufacturer. http://www.harbeth.co.uk/designersnotebook/chapter7/chapter7-1/index.php (A multipage document, the second page illustrates what tonal balance does to the stereo image!) Also discussed is the effect of the hearing adapting to the sound, making A/B for quality tests pretty meningless. Luckily I can get whatever tonal balance I like with my TacT.. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggestions for an up-to-date, available source for a linear PS
Gildahl;151538 Wrote: I'm very interested in learning more about this battery solution. I've asked about this here before, but received replies that kind of discouraged the idea. What do folks here think about chemical reaction noise, non-sinusoidal waves and other battery issues? It always seemed to me that straight DC power would be an almost ideal power source. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28637highlight=battery I haven't tested using a battery, but I have a gut feeling that galvanic isolation is more important than minute thermal/chemical reaction noise. (Meaning that a battery would be a good thing.) However, a battery must still have bypass caps so the internal frequency dependent resistance doesn't affect transient power suppply. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29058 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
teq;151218 Wrote: What kind of speakers - to be honest, I don't know. What different types are there? (ok, I can tell that I am going to embarrass every one now...) Some years ago, I had horn-type (folded horn - I have no idea what the correct term in English is) speakers which have an incredible bass-range, but are very large. The last speakers I had were rather small ones combined with a subwoofer. My wife would prefer something elegant (she has seen some cool BO boxes in a store) and not to large... On the size of the room, it would be about 40 square meters (about 120 square feet? I am never sure about American measurements...) Cheers, teq More like 400 square feet! (3x3 = 9) A fairly large room. Good looking speakers include semi-transparent ones, such as Martin Logan electrostats. Should be good in a large room as well, provided that they are allowed to stand clear of the wall -about a meter into the room.) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
adamslim;151574 Wrote: Outrageous flamebait :D Listen for yourself is all. Krell stuff is highly respected, but the last Krell I heard sounded laughably bland to my ears. If I owned it, I'd never play music. But that's my ears - highdudgeon's are undoubtedly different (although his choice in speakers is better ;) ), and yours will be too. It's like women. Look around, have fun, and buy the one you fall in love with. Rest assured it will be more expensive than you intended :) Adam More expensive than women? Have you ever been married :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 into TacT - how good can it get?
P Floding;150870 Wrote: My current setup sounds absolutely NOTHING LIKE just hooking up the SB3 to the TacT! So any comparisons like the one you mentioned is not relevant. Lets put it this way, if I had compared the SB3 straight with the Transporter and the Transporter sounded like my current SB3 setup, I would call the $2000 Transporter an absolute bargain. You must have a remarkable system, if you think it compares to Sleestack's gear. Other than the Aberdeen PSU, what upgrades have you done to your RCS and SB, and what's the rest of your system? -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28307 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
Me too, really. I have McIntosh solid state, which is superb, and Bryston is in the same category. I'd take either over Krell. On the other side of the spectrum, I've had Nuforce 9.02s in regular use lately and think they are great. However, I keep an audiomat arpege reference and McIntosh 275s on call. They are very different from each other and from the more linear and transparent solid state stuff. But, man, can they sing -- gorgeous midrange. When I want precision, and frankly for most of my listening, I stick to solid state. But, dim the lights, female jazz vocals, perhaps, and tubes can breathe life into the system. Also, as the other poster said, it really depends on your speaker. One thing to keep in mind -- and Krell is notorious here -- you need a lot less power than you think you do. It's instrutive to watch the needles on a Mc stay below 10w. Plinius is another great choice -- I'd go Plinius over Krell. The 9200 is a helluva piece. Pricey, though. JackOfAll;151597 Wrote: Give me a tube amp any day of the week! ;-) -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
adamslim;151574 Wrote: Outrageous flamebait :D Listen for yourself is all. Krell stuff is highly respected, but the last Krell I heard sounded laughably bland to my ears. If I owned it, I'd never play music. But that's my ears - highdudgeon's are undoubtedly different (although his choice in speakers is better ;) ), and yours will be too. It's like women. Look around, have fun, and buy the one you fall in love with. Rest assured it will be more expensive than you intended :) Adam I wouldn't compare Krell's KAV line with the FPBs or their other class A (operating mode, not rating) amps. BTW, my FPB200 sounded a bit dull until I lifted the lid and did a little internal housekeeping. After that it blew away my Bryston 7B ST, which I sold on. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
Check out the latest Absolute Sound. They do a comparison of class D amps. Nu-Force, Rowland and a # of others. Very interesting. If you like the class D sound ,you might want to audition some of these. Some people do think class D amps sound different just as tubes sound different, but I don't know, haven't tried comparing. I really did like the Rowland integrated, though. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 into TacT - how good can it get?
jhm731;151630 Wrote: You must have a remarkable system, if you think it compares to Sleestack's gear. Other than the Aberdeen PSU, what upgrades have you done to your RCS and SB, and what's the rest of your system? I don't think I have compared anything with anyone's system? I have used a pair of Audiophysics Caldera speakers (retailed at $20k) in my house (I have them in storage at the moment), but currently use Yamaha NS-2000 instead. Money doesn't have to equate audio superiority, if that is what you think. I have a lightly tweaked Krell FPB200. The TacT has been internally tweaked by myself, and currently sounds as good as one could ask. (Sounds nothing like when I first got it.) I don't see the relevance however? I'm talking about source quality here, and if the difference in sound quality between sources is blindingly obvious downstream from the source, then the exact system doesn't matter. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28307 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Bose Vs Burr Brown
When I connected my Squeezebox to my Bose Lifestyle system using the analogue connections and the lead that came with the Squeezebox I was very disappointed with the quality of sound. Switching to the digital output into the the D/A converter on my Lifestyle it was much better - as I would have expected. Initially I put this down to the D/A converter inside the Squeezebox not being as good quality as the Bose one, however having read more about the Burr Brown D/A converter I may have been to quick to make that conclusion. I would like to move back to using the analogue outputs and am thinking about buying a high quality phono cable to make the connection. Before I do, I am interested to see if anyone else has had any experience in comparing the Squeezebox D/A converter with an external one. In short, was my sound disappointment purely cable related -- oliver_guy oliver_guy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7849 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bose Vs Burr Brown
oliver_guy;151643 Wrote: When I connected my Squeezebox to my Bose Lifestyle system using the analogue connections and the lead that came with the Squeezebox I was very disappointed with the quality of sound. Switching to the digital output into the the D/A converter on my Lifestyle it was much better - as I would have expected. Initially I put this down to the D/A converter inside the Squeezebox not being as good quality as the Bose one, however having read more about the Burr Brown D/A converter I may have been to quick to make that conclusion. I would like to move back to using the analogue outputs and am thinking about buying a high quality phono cable to make the connection. Before I do, I am interested to see if anyone else has had any experience in comparing the Squeezebox D/A converter with an external one. In short, was my sound disappointment purely cable related Try cleaning the connectors of the analogue leads. Make sure they are a tight fit. What digital connector did you use for the digital hookup? -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bose Vs Burr Brown
P Floding;151646 Wrote: Try cleaning the connectors of the analogue leads. Make sure they are a tight fit. What digital connector did you use for the digital hookup? I used the cable that came with the Squeezebox for the analogue output, then again (one side only, clearly) for the digital (ie non-optical) output. -- oliver_guy oliver_guy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7849 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bose Vs Burr Brown
oliver_guy;151648 Wrote: I used the cable that came with the Squeezebox for the analogue output, then again (one side only, clearly) for the digital (ie non-optical) output. ok, that cable is not meant for digital transmission. (As far as I remember.) I have found that using the wrong type of cable for digital transmission can result in brighter sound, which could be percieved as better -especially on a Bose system. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Aaargh! InfrantNas / Transporter disaster!
I just took receipt of my lovely new Transporter and tried to hook it up - only to find it need slimserver 6.5 and the version required for InfrantNas is 'coming soon' - so I can't listen to the damn thing! Does anyone know the eta for the Infrant-compatible v. 6.6? -- wreford wreford's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29294 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bose Vs Burr Brown
I prefer the dac in my Arcam reciever to the dac in my SB2, however I believe someone else did the same test and prefered the SB2 dac. I was using a £30 analogue cable and a £180 digi coax though - maybe not a fair test a! Have been meaning to have a play with my new IC's for a while now but have not quite got round to it - The manufacturer sells a pair of rca to rca's as an IC set (which I am using them as)and a single rca to rca as the digi coax - same cable (which I need to have a shift around of gear to try one as a digi cable). However the Chord cables are sold as IC's and different cables as digitals. -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
That article is pretty odd -- I think most of the reviewers are being overly biased. Chris Maartins really likes the Nuforce...and TAS did give it a Golden Ear award. I think it is a solid performer and pretty much indistinguishable from other good solid state amps. Bass is extremely good, highs are perfectly linear (I know; I measure this stuff), music has lots of life and sounds accurate. Besides, they're small, they run cool, and they're cute. The TP with a pair of Nuforces looks great and sounds great. YMMV. Some people can't abide the technology. tomjtx;151636 Wrote: Check out the latest Absolute Sound. They do a comparison of class D amps. Nu-Force, Rowland and a # of others. Very interesting. If you like the class D sound ,you might want to audition some of these. Some people do think class D amps sound different just as tubes sound different, but I don't know, haven't tried comparing. I really did like the Rowland integrated, though. -- highdudgeon Relax. It's about the music. highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Aaargh! InfrantNas / Transporter disaster!
wreford wrote: I just took receipt of my lovely new Transporter and tried to hook it up - only to find it need slimserver 6.5 and the version required for InfrantNas is 'coming soon' - so I can't listen to the damn thing! Does anyone know the eta for the Infrant-compatible v. 6.6? http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29000 --rt ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
highdudgeon;151662 Wrote: That article is pretty odd -- I think most of the reviewers are being overly biased. Chris Maartins really likes the Nuforce...and TAS did give it a Golden Ear award. I think it is a solid performer and pretty much indistinguishable from other good solid state amps. Bass is extremely good, highs are perfectly linear (I know; I measure this stuff), music has lots of life and sounds accurate. Besides, they're small, they run cool, and they're cute. The TP with a pair of Nuforces looks great and sounds great. YMMV. Some people can't abide the technology. I agree their discussions sound vey biased at at times contradict their reviews. For my ears, the Rowland was very musical and I heard things more clearly than before, rythmic articulation was especially impressive. I would love to hear the nuforce..hey, HD, xmas is coming up. are ya feeling like Santa? :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Totally agree that people hear things differently. The brain is designed to decode sound to make sense of it - part of both our hunter and survivor skills - and a lot of that work is done in the time or phase domian. I do a lot of my experimentation (nearly 100 documented experiments on interconnect cable designs this year, and many not documented) with myself as the listener. But when I do the same experiments on other listeners it is clear that others are more or less sensitive to certain types phase distortions. This is one of the reasons why I think burn in is related to insulators and their different dielectric properties, and the fact/belief that their perfomance changes over a very long period when subjected to an electrical field. I recall my friend Ernie telling me of work he did in the military many years ago on how to quickly burn in (not a phrase he would choose, but in this context it is what he means) teflon insulation. Then again the military could have been suffering from placebo effect or faulty intelligence at the time - it wouldn't be a first. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Well yes that's cool... dielectrics do degrade over time...through oxidation etc -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Effect of cleaning up power?
In my experience, dedicated lines, (use ceramic fuses by the way, all else sounds markedly worse), and good power cords does the trick, and no conditioner I have tried has done anything than make the sound worse in that context. Also, in that context replacing any single cord with a stock cord is a big step backwards. However this is in a 230V 50Hz quarter acre block suburban neighbourhood. Fiddling with a few ideas on earths made no meaningful difference for me either. I have heard power conditioners improve things at a mate's appartment. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27255 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Effect of cleaning up power?
regalma1;136221 Wrote: I once was a tech in lab that unknown to me had voltage difference between the grounds of two circuits. One guy plugged a tape recorder into one outlet and the source into another. It blew the inputs to the recorder. I found a voltage between the grounds on the two outlets. Tying them together solved the problem. This also why I am skeptical about separate circuits to separate pieces of equipment. I would think that having the entire system plugged into one circuit would be cleaner and safer. In my own system I can't plug my subwoofer into the outlet near where it is located and the rest of my system into a separate circuit. It creates a terrible 60 Hz hum. Yes, I have arranged my power as a star pattern from a single outlet. Seems to work very well. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27255 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bose Vs Burr Brown
Don't know about your Bose specifically, but I suspect it's like most mid-to-low-level consumer audio equipment in that it converts all analog inputs into digital, then back to analog again before going to the amps. That adds 2 extra conversions in the pipeline. This is done because it's easier to use IC's for various preamp and processing duties (and you can add a lot more capabilities) than to attempt to do everything in the analog domain. Some receivers or preamps have a straight, or bypass setting which bypasses this conversion. -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 into TacT - how good can it get?
Cost - quality = NOT! -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28307 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
JackOfAll;151597 Wrote: Give me a tube amp any day of the week! ;-) It's purely a subjective (i.e. personal) choice - nothing to do with ANY kind of science thank goodness. If you like bananas eat bananas. If you don't ..don't. Tube amps can sound great as can SS ones. Life just ain't that simple. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 into TacT - how good can it get?
P Floding;151641 Wrote: I don't think I have compared anything with anyone's system? I have used a pair of Audiophysics Caldera speakers (retailed at $20k) in my house (I have them in storage at the moment), but currently use Yamaha NS-2000 instead. Money doesn't have to equate audio superiority, if that is what you think. I have a lightly tweaked Krell FPB200. The TacT has been internally tweaked by myself, and currently sounds as good as one could ask. (Sounds nothing like when I first got it.) I don't see the relevance however? I'm talking about source quality here, and if the difference in sound quality between sources is blindingly obvious downstream from the source, then the exact system doesn't matter. I agree, Money doesn't have to equate audio superiority. Sleestack found the Aberdeen NorthStar Transport also outperformed his more expensive Esoteric gear. Sleestack and other TacT users that have heard both the SB and Aberdeen NorthStar Transport, prefer the NS. What does internally tweaked by myself, mean? Have you upgraded the DAC/ADC cards, cabling, pulse transformers, caps, clocks, clock power supplies, etc, or have you just treated the contacts with silver paste? -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28307 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 into TacT - how good can it get?
jhm731;151693 Wrote: I agree, Money doesn't have to equate audio superiority. Sleestack found the Aberdeen NorthStar Transport also outperformed his more expensive Esoteric gear. Sleestack and other TacT users that have heard both the SB and Aberdeen NorthStar Transport, prefer the NS. What does internally tweaked by myself, mean? Have you upgraded the DAC/ADC cards, cabling, pulse transformers, caps, clocks, clock power supplies, etc, or have you just treated the contacts with silver paste? I have only replaced the power supply, and treated all contacs. It may be only in terms of work, but it is massive in terms of performance improvement. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28307 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
CardinalFang;151561 Wrote: Following the links on Wikipedia led to this short piece from the German Magazine AUDIO that is very revealing: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/printthread.php?t=676404 Oh - here's the link to a page to help you determine what type of response to music you have: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t40690.html Hey cool links. I got 11/12 'wrong', so am an overtone hearer. Fits with my preferred instrument choice of violin and voice. Be interesting to see how 'hearing' varies with equipment choice too. -- adamslim SB3 and Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost cables adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bose Vs Burr Brown
From what i've read about Bose systems, i think there is a lot of tweaking of the audio to make it sound 'good' in the right environment throught their basic paper speaker cones. here is a good right up: http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 into TacT - how good can it get?
P Floding;151696 Wrote: I have only replaced the power supply, and treated all contacs. It may be only in terms of work, but it is massive in terms of performance improvement. I've tried the contact enhancements, IMO, the improvement is nowhere near the other upgrades I listed. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=28307 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bose Vs Burr Brown
azinck3;151684 Wrote: Don't know about your Bose specifically, but I suspect it's like most mid-to-low-level consumer audio equipment in that it converts all analog inputs into digital, then back to analog again before going to the amps. That adds 2 extra conversions in the pipeline. This is done because it's easier to use IC's for various preamp and processing duties (and you can add a lot more capabilities) than to attempt to do everything in the analog domain. Some receivers or preamps have a straight, or bypass setting which bypasses this conversion. In other words, no matter what you do you'll be using the bose's DAC. It's just a question of whether or not the signal will go straight there via a digital connection, or a roundabout way through the squeezebox's DAC-analog cable-Bose's ADC. You're almost certainly better off with the digital connection. Your ears didn't lie! ...exactly. When I first got my SB2 (then SB3) and connected it to my receiver via analog, the sound was so warm as to be muddy. In comparison, the digital sound was crisp, almost bright. This was puzzling - surely the SB3 DAC was better than the Cirrus Logic DAC in my receiver? I attributed it to different handling of the analogue versus the digital inputs, principally due to sending it through the receiver's ADC. But I used the digital for a long time. Funny, around the time I installed 6.5 I tried again and it sounded much better? I have no idea what changed and there was a thread someone else started that noted this as well. Anyway, I've been using analog ever since. It's still warmer, but not as muffled as before. -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29293 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter, Inside Out
Whether designing, building, modifying or just buying, we all need models that help us decide what to do. You can say 'just listen', but how do you listen to everything, or worse still as a designer, build everything. I can see in Sean's posts what some of his models are, and they are different from some other designers. If as a buyer your model is 'I only listen to digital sources that have discrete outputs' then you won't bother listening to the Transporter. We all need to sift somehow. What we should be careful about however is getting stuck in our prevailing models. If enough people I trust say the Transporter sounds good, then I will happily discard my prejudices against AKM and NE5534s and have a listen. (That's just a hypothetical example by the way). Real scientists get excited when an opportunity to disprove their models arises, don't they? Sean has a model that believes clock sync cables don't matter - it doesn't make him right, but it has plenty of validity and support. But equally if enough credible people say they hear a difference, then perhaps its worth giving it a try. We can't advance human knowledge without having those models (no group of monkeys has ever actually typed even a paragraph of War Peace), but we can't advance human knowledge insisting our models are inviolate either (eg. must have Black Gates, no coupling caps or ICs). So I am still a bit of a sceptic myself about whether to buy a Transporter, but saying it can't sound good because it uses cheap ICs doesn't help me any. Hearing credible reports on its sound quality does - keep em coming. If you can indicate what you compared it to that would be even better. I hear the phrases - can get into the music more - and say to myself 'now you are talking'. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27927 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
so what does it mean when you get 6 of 12 like I just did? -- EFP EFP's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Well yes that's cool... dielectrics do degrade over time...through oxidation etc Is that intended to be a put down or did you just misread my post? The military wanted to degrade the dielectric before use? Since you are so dogmatic about it Phil, how many controlled experiments on burn in have you performed? I am interested in others observations - not the closed minded application or your models to my reality. Dismissing my observations with your derisive closed mind is not appreciated. Perhaps you come here to debate with people to continually reinforce your comfort that you already know everything. I don't. I come here to share experiences and views. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
highdudgeon;151495 Wrote: The best kind of amp, I think, is the kind of amp that will allow you to buy the best possible speakers within your overall budget. There are differences in amps, to be sure, and they are especially obvious when comparing tube and solid state amps (which says something about amp construction, because ideally made amps should all sound alike). However, differences between speakers are vast. I have had everything from $9 McIntosh MC-501s and a used $450 Carver A-500x paired with superlative Harbeth Monitor 40s and two Quads. The changes in speakers made more of a difference and the differences between amps was shockingly nuanced. In short, take a look at your total budget, think about what you like in music, take your room into consideration, and then pick out some optimal speakers. Buy a less expensive amp. Then, when you have more budget flexibility, by a cooler-looking, longer-living, etc., amplifier. (I have nothing against buying something because you like the way it looks...so long as you're not totally throwing your money away.) Oh, and I would say this: maybe stay away from tube amps. They don't have the same bass response and high resolution as well-made solid state amps. I'm not dissing them, either -- I own, and love, two tube amps. However, the Transporter is an extremely high definition device...so you might as well let that come through. You can always grab a tube amp (a vintage Mc is great) for a second piece down the road. I like having tube gear around. If you end up with high-efficiency speakers (eg. horns, like he owned before), then tubes might be the ideal amplifier choice for him...I know I certainly wouldn't run a pair of 100+db sensitive speakers with a high-powered solid state or Class D amp! -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
Like it!! Did you need to vomit on the Transporter to get it to sound better? Sounds more like a soak test than burn in, but certainly novel and something I have not tried. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: TP changes with break in
There will be a double blind test of the stomach flu/TP sound on the next SouthPark episode -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29025 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
On one level I don't totally agree with you Highdudgeon. Yes the differences between speakers is vast, in terms of tonal flavour, extension, dynamics, etc. But I have heard very few speakers that cannot be made to sound musical. I cannot so easily say that of amps. In blind tests different speakers will be obvious and different amps will be hard to pick, yes. But over a period of a week, what can sound like a small initial change between two amps can amount to a lot in terms of whether I am enjoying the music. So my point is I think getting the right speaker for your room is really hard and really important, but it doesn't necessarily require a lot of money. Sadly getting a musically fine amp can cost a lot of money. My sense is I must be able to adjust to the sound of speakers more easily than to the sound of amps, even though the latter appear to be more accurate by any conventional measurements. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter, Inside Out
Jenks;151728 Wrote: Whether designing, building, modifying or just buying, we all need models that help us decide what to do. You can say 'just listen', but how do you listen to everything, or worse still as a designer, build everything. I can see in Sean's posts what some of his models are, and they are different from some other designers. If as a buyer your model is 'I only listen to digital sources that have discrete outputs' then you won't bother listening to the Transporter. We all need to sift somehow. What we should be careful about however is getting stuck in our prevailing models. If enough people I trust say the Transporter sounds good, then I will happily discard my prejudices against AKM and NE5534s and have a listen. (That's just a hypothetical example by the way). Real scientists get excited when an opportunity to disprove their models arises, don't they? Sean has a model that believes clock sync cables don't matter - it doesn't make him right, but it has plenty of validity and support. But equally if enough credible people say they hear a difference, then perhaps its worth giving it a try. We can't advance human knowledge without having those models (no group of monkeys has ever actually typed even a paragraph of War Peace), but we can't advance human knowledge insisting our models are inviolate either (eg. must have Black Gates, no coupling caps or ICs). So I am still a bit of a sceptic myself about whether to buy a Transporter, but saying it can't sound good because it uses cheap ICs doesn't help me any. Hearing credible reports on its sound quality does - keep em coming. If you can indicate what you compared it to that would be even better. I hear the phrases - can get into the music more - and say to myself 'now you are talking'. Ehh, the clock sync cable doesn't matter since it is engineered not to matter. It's not an opinion. For its purpose any cable that passes the clock signal correctly is equally good. However, there just MIGHT be secondary effects that are not part of the clock sync functionality as such that could affect sound quality. Things such as ground noise being transmitted via the sync cable. (Therefore an optical clock sync cable would be a good thing.) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27927 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
Jenks;151741 Wrote: On one level I don't totally agree with you Highdudgeon. Yes the differences between speakers is vast, in terms of tonal flavour, extension, dynamics, etc. But I have heard very few speakers that cannot be made to sound musical. I cannot so easily say that of amps. In blind tests different speakers will be obvious and different amps will be hard to pick, yes. But over a period of a week, what can sound like a small initial change between two amps can amount to a lot in terms of whether I am enjoying the music. So my point is I think getting the right speaker for your room is really hard and really important, but it doesn't necessarily require a lot of money. Sadly getting a musically fine amp can cost a lot of money. My sense is I must be able to adjust to the sound of speakers more easily than to the sound of amps, even though the latter appear to be more accurate by any conventional measurements. Jenks, my impression is that you would be in the minority with that view(not that that means anything) so I am curious if you know anyone who shares your opinion? Or. is it because your British and drive on the wrong side of the road :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
A kiwi and drive on the wrong side of the world. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
Jenks;151747 Wrote: A kiwi and drive on the wrong side of the world. I'm sorry, I don't get that, where are you from. Sorry to be so dense (I'll blame it on the flu. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Suggested amplifier for Transporter?
Yes, I live in New Zealand (or middle earth to some), sorry about being so cryptic when you are ridden with the flu. -- Jenks Jenks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3413 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=29239 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
