Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
adamdea;630296 Wrote: err help Having fiddled with inguz as eq for some time I am now taking the plunge. I have purchased an m-audio mobile pre external soundcardand a dbx driverack measuring mic. I have installed the mobile pre on a laptop. I ahve downloaded the trial version of inguz 2.0. I am trying to work out what the best way is to output the test file to my audio system- analog out from the mobile pre to my pre amp. But then it occurs to me that it would be better if it went into my dac too. I have no spdif out then and the dac has no usb in. If I install sbs on the laptop could I tell audiolens to output the test file via sbs? Or should i just calm down and use the analog out? also I have 2 speakers and a sub connected to the speaker outs. This sub is common to both speakers and cuts in at 43 hz. is it ok to use audiolense 2.0 or should i be using 4.1 I know that supports the use of subs- but is that only on the basis of there been a separate line out channel? Dave - AudioLense 2.0 is fine for you (and me!) for the subwoofer. You don't need to have the DAC in the test file playback chain. Most DAC's are reasonably flat (within 0.5dB anyway) and what are you are trying to fix with DRC is the interaction of the speakers and the room, not the frequency response of the DAC. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;630300 Wrote: I had been under the impression that with PCM one could get subtle timing problems in the sequence of bits, and that could result in potentially audible degradation. I know people argue about this, but I'm not going to (either way). ... No need for any argument, on the Squeezebox platform both FLAC and PCM are handled with bit-perfect playback. This is verifiable fact. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630311 Wrote: Ordered the electrics today Phil thanks but not from screwfix these guys give you 5% of the value of your order off your next order! http://www.gil-lec.co.uk/ My shopping list MK Unswitched Socket 2 Gang 13A x4 (audio) 13A Switched Socket 2 Gang Polished Chrome for general use hoover etc 13A Unswitched Fused Spur + C/O Pol Chrome - for electric raditor. Can anyone recomend any good ones ? Already seen http://www.heatecradiators.co.uk/ and like the Italian. Friedland Evo Wirefree Silver Chime Kit 50m - for when I cant hear the door due to the tunes. ELD 240v GU10 Firerated Fixed Downlight WH in white x 10 for the lighting Doh I for got to include this to control the downlighters - Dimmer 3Gang 2Way 400W Polished Chrome (give flexibility for controlling lights For my new speakers Chord Rumour a good match for Dalis ? the Friedland Evo is very good - I use one! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;630300 Wrote: In my case, the Touch does not appear to be able to handle 24/96 PCM, but happily handles FLAC. PCM will therefore be more demanding on the network link between the Touch and the server (more data being sent), but the Touch is perfectly capable of handling that data stream. While there could be a fault with the Touch or even the Server, the symptoms (ie dropouts) would strongly suggest a networking problem. The only way to rule out the network completely is to not use the network of course - ie establish a direct connection between Touch and server over a single ethernet cable. Tricky to setup, but possible. Or just enjoy the Touch decoding your FLAC library... (unless you're pedantic like me an refuse to live with things not working as they should) -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S/PDIF cables should be (a) - =1.5m or (b) as short as possible?
earwaxer9;628211 Wrote: As far as the toslink connector - I cant see how that has anything to do with the transmission of the light as long as its lined up properly. My DAC will actually pick up the light signal and transmit very good sound even before it is fully plugged in! I tried holding the cable a few mm from the jack and I still got sound. I have seen gold plated toslink connectors. Cant see the point! Its not electrical! You are missing my point - it's not about the connectors being made of unobtanium - it's about whether or not they mechanically fit properly - if not you can get significant transmission loss/reflection/problems. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84751 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Certainly the Touch and SBS 7.6 CAN handle 24/96 PCM or FLAC without any issues so what's left is your network and/or server hardware... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Phil Leigh;630358 Wrote: Dave - AudioLense 2.0 is fine for you (and me!) for the subwoofer. You don't need to have the DAC in the test file playback chain. Most DAC's are reasonably flat (within 0.5dB anyway) and what are you are trying to fix with DRC is the interaction of the speakers and the room, not the frequency response of the DAC. Thanks Phil. I have made 2 schoolboy errors - I have got a mic lead which is too short and I can't seem to work out how to plug anything into the line outs of the mobile pre- they aren't normal RCA sockets. This perhaps should be obviously. I therefore found that I couldn't connect it up anyway. I notice you have audiolense 3.3- which I assume is the ancestor of 4.1. I was wondering whether to get the xo version which has minimum phase instead of linear. Mind you less choice may be better for me. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
adamdea;630377 Wrote: Thanks Phil. I have made 2 schoolboy errors - I have got a mic lead which is too short and I can't seem to work out how to plug anything into the line outs of the mobile pre- they aren't normal RCA sockets. This perhaps should be obviously. I therefore found that I couldn't connect it up anyway. I notice you have audiolense 3.3- which I assume is the ancestor of 4.1. I was wondering whether to get the xo version which has minimum phase instead of linear. Mind you less choice may be better for me. XO has Group Delay. I will get that when I have sufficient funds! I'll check which exact version of AL I have later today. I'll take a look at the Mobile Pre and see if I can advise... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;630373 Wrote: Certainly the Touch and SBS 7.6 CAN handle 24/96 PCM or FLAC without any issues so what's left is your network and/or server hardware... OK. Now. SBS 7.6 can't handle anything. It is not a Beta as they call it (due to whatever reasons) . I consider it a dead pre-alpha. I find it ridiculous that anytime a problem occurs those so called specialists around here show up with it's fixed in 7.6. 7.6 is not up for use. And probably will never be. I would not recommend it to anyone who looks for a rather stable system and can live with certain workarounds. Obviously Logitech is not putting any priority on 7.6. development. This messy situation is going since more then a year. I seriously doubt that 7.6. will ever be released. THX. -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Phil Leigh;630381 Wrote: XO has Group Delay. I will get that when I have sufficient funds! I'll check which exact version of AL I have later today. I'll take a look at the Mobile Pre and see if I can advise... Ps sorry for calling you Dave! :-( No worries. The line outs just look like a hole in the case of maybe 1cm (probably a bit less) diameter- when i peer inside all i can see is black (possibly a spring clip somewhere). I have a feeling that the AL terminology is confusing and that what they call 2.0 is the 2.0 (ie limited functionality) version of the 4.1 release -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will Logitech Revue Google TV wipe out Squeezebox?
JezA;612984 Wrote: Who's going to buy a squeezebox when the Logitech Revue does so much more?? Streams music and video and gets you online, HDMI and USB outputs, remote apps .. Allows you to use many different music and/or video servers .. I don't think the Revue is going to be a SqueezeBox killer for many reasons, including those previously spelled out in this thread. Furthermore, I'd bet the Revue won't even be around for long as Revue sales are 70% below expectations and GoogleTV (the platform for the Revue) is stumbling quite badly. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384652,00.asp I'd bet they will stop Revue production within the next year. How committed Logitech is to the SqueezeBox line I cannot say. I was hoping Revue sales would help SqueezeBox/SBS/MySB.com investment and development by Logitech with Revue integration into these areas. But with such poor sales I don't see the Revue helping the SqueezeBox arena. :( -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will Logitech Revue Google TV wipe out Squeezebox?
ralphpnj;613580 Wrote: Apparently there seems to be lots of confusion about what UPnP means and I count myself among those who are confused. From what I can gather a UPnP device is either a client or a server. In the case of the Squeezebox devices, the Squeezebox is a client and the computer running SBS is the server. The main difference between the Squeezebox devices and many other UPnP devices is that while the Squeezebox device is a client because it's ability to communicate with SBS one has the ability to control the device using a remote. I've never seen a clear explanation of exactly how other UPnP are controlled. Again my understanding is that many of these devices are controlled via software on the server and in the case of music the most common software used to control the device is iTunes and that must be controlled at the server. If I have anything wrong please feel free to correct and educate me since I'm often puzzled as to why these very dumb UPnP clients are being so highly touted. For point of reference I have a WD Live Plus box connected to my HDTV which I use to stream movies. While the device can play music files it does not have a good way to find what music is on the server and whatever method it uses is nowhere near as good or as useful as SBS. And one does need the TV to be on to select music. UPnP is neither a client nor a server, but a technology. It is used to enable the discovery of services and devices without the need for user configuration. Unfortuately - a probably the cause of the confusion - the term UPnP seems to becoming heavily associated with media servers that employ the technology as the name of the product. DLNA employs UPnP to advertise services as does the Microsoft equivalent (forget the name cos they keep changing it - used to be Windows Media Connect). Those servers could provide similar functionality as SBS, but in practice tend to be quite dumb - simply advertising the media available and then relying on the client to do the work - kind of the opposite to SBS. Therein lies the biggest drawback with such servers as the clients are not always compatible with the media and/or server, despite any claimed certification. -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;630396 Wrote: OK. Now. SBS 7.6 can't handle anything. It is not a Beta as they call it (due to whatever reasons) . I consider it a dead pre-alpha. I find it ridiculous that anytime a problem occurs those so called specialists around here show up with it's fixed in 7.6. 7.6 is not up for use. And probably will never be. I would not recommend it to anyone who looks for a rather stable system and can live with certain workarounds. Obviously Logitech is not putting any priority on 7.6. development. This messy situation is going since more then a year. I seriously doubt that 7.6. will ever be released. THX. 1) I didn't say there was a problem that was fixed by 7.6. All I said was that I am using 7.6 and cannot reproduce the problem. 2) I've been using 7.6 happily since it came out. OK there were one or 2 nightly releases that caused me a temporary problem but it IS in beta status and I'm happy to use it on that basis. The experience of others may vary... 3) I never suggested anyone should use 7.6 if they aren't happy with its beta status - especially as some plugins don't yet work. 4) 7.6 easily outperforms earlier versions on vanilla PC server platforms like mine for several functions (scanning with SQLite being one example). 5) There will hopefully be a release in June/July that will have much of 7.6 in it - at least that is the expectation set in the beta forum. I have no reason to doubt that - clearly you do? 6) Why do you have a problem with 7.6? - whilst you are complaining about it, I've been happily enjoying its benefits for a year :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will Logitech Revue Google TV wipe out Squeezebox?
JezA;613028 Wrote: FLAC has to be converted to PCM somewhere,either on your NAS or on your squeezebox, so the power gets used whichever. You might only want to use your Harmony remote - many people will prefer an iPhone/Touch/Android solution .. It's early days for the Revue yet, and indeed for Apple TV - but I think they will be the future. Hopefully not. No phone I can buy today or in the immediately foreseeable future will do what my Harmony One remote can do. Also I don't want anything Apple in the house until such time as their USP becomes solely a blend of functionality, price and styling, rather than proprietary BS. The Revue looks cool for video. I might get one for video (but it needs some more features) but there may be better competitors - I haven't researched this. It will not be part of my audio system. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
adamdea;630399 Wrote: No worries. The line outs just look like a hole in the case of maybe 1cm (probably a bit less) diameter- when i peer inside all i can see is black (possibly a spring clip somewhere). I have a feeling that the AL terminology is confusing and that what they call 2.0 is the 2.0 (ie limited functionality) version of the 4.1 release I have AL 2.0, version 3.3 - I am downloading 4.1 ! The outputs on your mobile pre are 0.25 inch TRS jack sockets. You can connect normal RCA/phono cables to them using jack-phono adaptors. Like these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MONO-JACK-PHONO-SOCKET-ADAPTOR/dp/B0018D024C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8qid=1305028758sr=8-2 -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
hi, just to clarify you can split the signal and run into a DAC with two coax inputs OR even more simply run coax and optical into the same DAC. Assuming you want to aid switching by staying exactly in the same position, then a remote control switching is useful. Buy a DAC with remote for as little as $300 £200 Search ebay for Matrix mini-i 24bit/192kHz Balanced DAC+Remote Control That way you don't have to buy identical preamps or amps (as its possible even 2x identical amps could be slightly different) -- ajmitchell http://www.last.fm/user/ajmitchell ajmitchell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=800 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Phil Leigh;630418 Wrote: I have AL 2.0, version 3.3 - I am downloading 4.1 ! The outputs on your mobile pre are 0.25 inch TRS jack sockets. You can connect normal RCA/phono cables to them using jack-phono adaptors. Like these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MONO-JACK-PHONO-SOCKET-ADAPTOR/dp/B0018D024C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8qid=1305028758sr=8-2 Thanks. Will have quick look in Maplins or else Amazon it is. Presumably Nordost do a version for £2500. Intrigued to know what 4.1 will do that 3.3 didn't -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;630406 Wrote: 6) Why do you have a problem with 7.6? - whilst you are complaining about it, I've been happily enjoying its benefits for a year :-) Fully agree with you. Never had any problems with 7.6 (with one single exception, but that little problem was solved the next day). Database handling is far better in 7.6 and much faster. Since I use it I'm really happy with my SBT! Therefore I highly recommend to use 7.6. It saved me a lot of time and nerves. -- Soundman Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
adamdea;630424 Wrote: Thanks. Will have quick look in Maplins or else Amazon it is. Presumably Nordost do a version for £2500. Intrigued to know what 4.1 will do that 3.3 didn't You can get something suitable from Maplins. I've installed 4.1 and tested it, but I'm not sure what the improvements/changes actually are yet... more research required. In June I'll be upgrading to 4.1 XO - I really want that TTD/Group Delay functionality :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will Logitech Revue Google TV wipe out Squeezebox?
Google TV looks to be dead already.. It is not a killer, but rather a suicide.. -- michael123 Please fix http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16814 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;630361 Wrote: The distortion does not rise with frequency. I think what you are missing is: a 20kHz signal never occurs in isolation in real music and even if it did, it takes many consecutive samples to convey a sound there is no averaging, there is a series of instantaneous samples (16 or 24-bit words) replayed in sequence, in isolation The averaging occurs only in our brain. It seems to me the distortion has to rise with frequency. At least the part of it affected by dithering. At higher frequencies, there are fewer samples to average together to realize the benefits of dithering. Actually, the averaging occurs in the reconstruction filter, whether it be analog or digital, not my brain. This is mentioned on the page in the link. Look at Figure 8.1 in the link. It is based on a 4 bit sampling, so would be the same as an audio signal about 72 dB below full scale. It is also pretty low in frequency. I count well over 100 samples in the period of the damped signal, so it would have to be about 400 Hz. So try to imagine this same figure with 1/10th the number of samples. That would be the situation for a 4kHz signal. What would the plot in 8.1d look like then? Obviously much more jagged and distorted. You don't have to have a single high frequency signal to get high frequency components in the music. Line up a few lower frequency signals with the same phase, and the leading edge becomes very steep, the same as a single high frequency sine wave would be. Does this transient matter? I know it doesn't matter to you, but then I'm wondering how you managed to wander down into the Audiophile forum :-) It matters to me. So does the fact that the music 72 dB below full scale is horribly distorted. Like I say, this is a low frequency signal. Guessing from the plot in 8.1d, it must have several percent distortion. As a general rule, 1% distortion is just visible in a trace like this if I remember right, so this must be much worse than that. So to claim that the dynamic range exceeds this level just doesn't work for me. Here's another thing to think about. Say you have a signal at 12kHz that is pretty large in amplitude. I pick that frequency because it is low enough in frequency to be heard by most everyone, but high enough that the harmonics of it are outside the range of the anti-aliasing filter. So let's say something in the recording process goes horribly wrong and this signal gets badly distorted in a way that produces mainly harmonic distortion. What would a conventional distortion analyzer show? Since all of the harmonics are filtered out by the anti-aliasing filters in the CD encoding process, the distortion analyzer would read zero. For those that don't know, distortion analyzers work by using a very sharp notch filter to remove the fundamental (in this case the 12 kHz sine wave) and then measuring the amplitude of whatever is left. In this case, once you remove the fundamental, nothing is left because all of the harmonically related distortion components are removed by the anti-aliasing filter. So the distortion analyzer would read zero. But does this mean the signal really has no distortion? I think that if you examined it in the time domain, you would see it was still distorted. The same could be true for an 8kHz signal if it were distorted in such a way as to cause only odd order harmonics. This would happen if the signal got severely clipped. The first odd harmonic at 24kHz would not make it through the anti-aliasing filter (which is a very good thing). But does that mean the distortion was removed? The technique that started this thread would still show the distortion, while a conventional harmonic distortion analyzer would not. Im not saying that CDs suck. I only meant to say that the proposed technique might show some interesting results if applied to the CD encoding process that our present suite of sine wave based tools are not capable of showing. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;630396 Wrote: OK. Now. SBS 7.6 can't handle anything. It is not a Beta as they call it (due to whatever reasons) . I consider it a dead pre-alpha. I find it ridiculous that anytime a problem occurs those so called specialists around here show up with it's fixed in 7.6. THX. I really like your mods and use them, but I never understood why you are putting 7.6 down. For me 7.6 handles everything nicely. The database handling, to name just one example, was fixed in 7.6 a long time ago and it works much better than in any previous version. In my setup 7.6 performs far better than 7.5 (no more stuttering at all with any files, very short scanning time etc.). And no problems with stability either... -- Soundman Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
snottmonster;630369 Wrote: PCM will be more demanding on the network link between the Touch and the server (more data being sent), but the Touch is perfectly capable of handling that data stream. While there could be a fault with the Touch or even the Server, the symptoms (ie dropouts) would strongly suggest a networking problem. The only way to rule out the network completely is to not use the network of course - ie establish a direct connection between Touch and server over a single ethernet cable. Tricky to setup, but possible. Or just enjoy the Touch decoding your FLAC library... (unless you're pedantic like me an refuse to live with things not working as they should) I tried the Touch connected via one switch to the PC, with short (2m) cables. The problem was unchanged, so I do not believe it's the network. Given the visible load on the PC CPU(s) is below 5%, disc utilisation is very low, and I turned off all security software, I think it's the Touch rather than the server, but I can't prove it. Any ideas as to how I might do so? If anyone looked at my network traffic files did they reveal anything? I wish I could use 7.6. However, I use Custom Browse and Custom Scan plugins all the time. One issue with 7.6 is that every time SB starts, the CPU load goes to 50% for an hour or three at a time and is unusable. I need these plugins. With them SB is a joy to use. Without them it's a pain. I don't usually play 'albums', so much as 'works', and want to choose between several versions of each. These plugins make it really easy to do. I often can't recall which 'album' a 'work' is on, so the plugins really suit my needs. Unfortunately the change in database means the plugins work less than perfectly at present. The designer is well aware of this but is not willing to commit his time and energy to modifying them until 7.6 is a non-beta reality, and who can blame him. -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
That example, I believe, is WHY it works. If you look at the signal AFTER the reconstruction filter, the jagged edges are gone. Of course if you look at the digital output of a 15kHz signal sampled at 40kHz it will look coarser then a 100Hz signal sampled at 40kHz. BUT, after the proper reconstruction filter, you've eliminate all the harmonics due to sampling of the 15kHz signal, and are left with ALL the information at 15kHz. -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630441 Wrote: I only meant to say that the proposed technique might show some interesting results if applied to the CD encoding process that our present suite of sine wave based tools are not capable of showing. Terry Sine waves are used because you can make a meaningful measurement. At a single frequency you see the amplitude and phase response at that frequency, as well as any added frequency content which is due to distortion. You can also do two-tone tests to look for intermodulation distortion. With a broadband real signal, it's just too difficult to isolate what the source of distortion is so it's not really useful. I imagine there could be metrics for a broadband signal test to verify the accuracy of the result, but the typical tests are more useful to understand where the deficiencies lie. -- tcutting tcutting's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17402 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
tcutting;630448 Wrote: Sine waves are used because you can make a meaningful measurement. At a single frequency you see the amplitude and phase response at that frequency, as well as any added frequency content which is due to distortion. You can also do two-tone tests to look for intermodulation distortion. With a broadband real signal, it's just too difficult to isolate what the source of distortion is so it's not really useful. I imagine there could be metrics for a broadband signal test to verify the accuracy of the result, but the typical tests are more useful to understand where the deficiencies lie. I don't mean to say that sine wave based measurements are not useful for exactly the reasons you state. I agree with what you say 100%. But in addition to them, I'd like to see the technique in the first post become more commonplace. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630441 Wrote: I know it doesn't matter to you, but then I'm wondering how you managed to wander down into the Audiophile forum :-) Terry Phil, I apologize for how that sounded. Obviously you have a valid viewpoint and the inclusion of it makes this a more interesting discussion. Please do not take offense. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;630444 Wrote: I tried the Touch connected via one switch to the PC, with short (2m) cables. The problem was unchanged, so I do not believe it's the network. Given the visible load on the PC CPU(s) is below 5%, disc utilisation is very low, and I turned off all security software, I think it's the Touch rather than the server, but I can't prove it. Any ideas as to how I might do so? If anyone looked at my network traffic files did they reveal anything? I wish I could use 7.6. However, I use Custom Browse and Custom Scan plugins all the time. One issue with 7.6 is that every time SB starts, the CPU load goes to 50% for an hour or three at a time and is unusable. I need these plugins. With them SB is a joy to use. Without them it's a pain. I don't usually play 'albums', so much as 'works', and want to choose between several versions of each. These plugins make it really easy to do. I often can't recall which 'album' a 'work' is on, so the plugins really suit my needs. Unfortunately the change in database means the plugins work less than perfectly at present. The designer is well aware of this but is not willing to commit his time and energy to modifying them until 7.6 is a non-beta reality, and who can blame him. This raises a very important issue that you may wish to consider (I certainly spent a long time pondering on this): I decided 2 years ago that I would never become totally dependent on any plugin that I couldn't maintain myself if I HAD to. Plugins are supported on a best efforts basis and the very complex ones such as Custom Browse/Scan need expert support. They can and will break and there are no guarantees for future support. I do NOT want to be locked into an old version of SBS. The only 2 plugins I rely on are MusicIP integration and Inguz, both of which have latent issues. I have a (radical) backout plan for Inguz - which I only use on 1 player anyway. I don't have a suitable fallback for MIP. I stopped using Custom Browse/Scan for this reason - although I believe Erland will remediate them at some point. I think you should formulate a plan for the future. Going back to your immediate issue; you have eliminated your network as a problem, but not the server. Your reported problem with the wavin plugin makes me very suspicious of your server...especially as the common thread appears to be PCM streaming... Seem you are down to 2 possibilities: 1) Something wrong with your server 2) a problem with 7.5.x (on either the server or Touch or both. Just as a TEST - try installing 7.6, disable the custom browse/scan plugins and see if the rebuffering goes away. I appreciate this isn't a fix for your problem - you need Erland for that. I can't think of anything else to try at the moment. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630450 Wrote: I don't mean to say that sine wave based measurements are not useful for exactly the reasons you state. I agree with what you say 100%. But in addition to them, I'd like to see the technique in the first post become more commonplace. Terry see post 66 -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;630452 Wrote: Going back to your immediate issue; you have eliminated your network as a problem, but not the server. Nor the switch, or the cables... -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Phil Leigh;630438 Wrote: You can get something suitable from Maplins. I've installed 4.1 and tested it, but I'm not sure what the improvements/changes actually are yet... more research required. In June I'll be upgrading to 4.1 XO - I really want that TTD/Group Delay functionality :-) Actually i have gone completely mad and both purchased 2 1/4 plug to rca converters (2.50 each gold) AND a 3M cable 1/4 plug one end rca the other (distinctly non audiophile 7.99). I actually don't have any cables over 1 m long at home and I thought I might as well give myself a bit more room to put the laptop and soundcard out of the way while measuring. Re 4.1 XO quite see your point. I did wonder whether Room Eq wizard migth work. But i can't seem to register on their forum -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630451 Wrote: Phil, I apologize for how that sounded. Obviously you have a valid viewpoint and the inclusion of it makes this a more interesting discussion. Please do not take offense. Terry Terry - no offense taken - it made me chuckle :-) There are lots of things that don't matter to me... mostly they are things I can't hear like frequencies 16kHz or signals @ -70dB or lower. I've spent 30 years+ years messing around with this stuff; in studios and slaving over soldering irons, scopes and sig gens etc. I have evangelised the ADM test methodology here and been mercilessly attacked by some people for doing so - and the ADM method is no different to the Nordost et al approach. When I said the averaging occurs in your brain I didn't mean when listening, I meant when looking at those ragged/stepped graphs on screen/in books. I should have made that clear. The music (or a sine wave) @ -70dB is not horribly distorted! - there is some noise ~30dB below it... Try generating a -70dB sine wave (any frequency) in Audacity and listening to it... You need to get this whole distortion/noise thing sorted out :-) You keep mentioning distortion or even harmonic distortion, when what we really should be talking about is noise. Nothing in Sampling Theory can substantiate the idea that distortion rises with frequency. Distortion is constant with frequency within the bandwidth limits of the bandwidth limited system required by Information Theory. This is fundamental to digital audio! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;630452 Wrote: This raises a very important issue that you may wish to consider (I certainly spent a long time pondering on this): I decided 2 years ago that I would never become totally dependent on any plugin that I couldn't maintain myself if I HAD to. Plugins are supported on a best efforts basis and the very complex ones such as Custom Browse/Scan need expert support. They can and will break and there are no guarantees for future support. I do NOT want to be locked into an old version of SBS. The only 2 plugins I rely on are MusicIP integration and Inguz, both of which have latent issues. I have a (radical) backout plan for Inguz - which I only use on 1 player anyway. I don't have a suitable fallback for MIP. I stopped using Custom Browse/Scan for this reason - although I believe Erland will remediate them at some point. I think you should formulate a plan for the future. Going back to your immediate issue; you have eliminated your network as a problem, but not the server. Your reported problem with the wavin plugin makes me very suspicious of your server...especially as the common thread appears to be PCM streaming... Seem you are down to 2 possibilities: 1) Something wrong with your server 2) a problem with 7.5.x (on either the server or Touch or both. Just as a TEST - try installing 7.6, disable the custom browse/scan plugins and see if the rebuffering goes away. I appreciate this isn't a fix for your problem - you need Erland for that. I can't think of anything else to try at the moment. Thanks for your ongoing advice. I did try 7.6 briefly, but the time required to do it again to check that a problem is fixed is not worth it for me. It's a potentially unstable beta, changes all the time, needs yet another rescan of my library, requires disabling plugins I use all the time, and so on. 7.5.3 (and indeed 7.5.4) works fine, except I can't transmit PCM at 24/96. So I'll use FLAC. I entirely take your point about plugins and the future. I'm aware I am relying on them, but SB itself doesn't have the tools I really want. It's usable, but less than ideal. If those plugins become defunct (more than likely in a few years time) I can do one of two things. A) I can stay on 7.5.3, which works (except PCM 24/96 transmissions - why upgrade for just that?). I have a copy of the server, and of the plugins, so I think I'm safe in that respect (for a while). B)I can use foobar, UpNp, and control the Touch from there using my SB library including the special tags I have on my FLACs and foobar filters No doubt foobar will also disappear, and future windows versions will become an issue. Hopefully another solution (that I can afford) will arrive, and FLACS will be supported by something. I won't be throwing my CD collection away! The issue with wavin was, oddly, resolved by using PCM rather than using FLAC, so the issue is reversed on that topic. Assuming that the Task Manager was not telling porkies, the data was leaving my PC on time, but being buffered in the Touch for a very long time. However, without tools to check this on the Touch I cannot be 100% sure. I can't see what else I can check on my PC. It's also fascinating what people use. I can't imagine why I would ever want to use MusicIP. Indeed I only dimly understand what it is for. No doubt others would fail to understand why I need extra tags on my FLACs to include 'work', 'movement', 'work artist' and others. -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Speakers Cable Looking to use Chord Rumour speaker cable with my forthcoming Dali Mentor Menuets. http://www.dali.dk/display_content.php/INT/Loudspeakers.html/172/2371 Your thoughts good match ? The speakers are going to be wall mounted using Dali's speacker brackets at about 6ft from the fllor will this be OK ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630482 Wrote: Speakers Cable Looking to use Chord Rumour speaker cable with my forthcoming Dali Mentor Menuets. http://www.dali.dk/display_content.php/INT/Loudspeakers.html/172/2371 Your thoughts good match ? The speakers are going to be wall mounted using Dali's speacker brackets at about 6ft from the fllor will this be OK ? Chord = good quality - I use their interconnects, and I'm sure their speaker cables are equally good. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;630461 Wrote: ... It's also fascinating what people use. I can't imagine why I would ever want to use MusicIP. Indeed I only dimly understand what it is for. No doubt others would fail to understand why I need extra tags on my FLACs to include 'work', 'movement', 'work artist' and others. MIP probably isn't of much interest if you mostly listen to classical music - you probably don't want the computer to mash-up your listening experience :-) I fully understand why you need those extra tags. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
adamdea;630456 Wrote: see post 66 Did you read the report that was the basis for the start of this thread? It used a high resolution ADC to read the output of the power amplifier and compare that same output when something in the chain was changed. In their case it was including cable supports or a better mains cable. And they claim to be able to measure the differences in the signal that those changes caused. I was only suggesting to expand that technique to compare a good analog signal to the same signal after being converted to Redbook CD. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Yes they can be angled down slightly. 5ft better then ? Big difference ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;630462 Wrote: Nothing in Sampling Theory can substantiate the idea that distortion rises with frequency. Distortion is constant with frequency within the bandwidth limits of the bandwidth limited system required by Information Theory. This is fundamental to digital audio! I don't claim it is inherent in sampling theory, but when the expected benefits of dithering are considered, it seems to me that having more samples per waveform to average will result in better dithering performance. I think that is consistent with theory. So fewer samples (because the sampled waveform is higher in frequency) must result in worse performane of the dithering. Probably it is insignificant. In my little mind, I am considering distortion to be any difference between the ideal signal waveform and the one I get in my system. Harmonic distortion, non-harmonic distortion, or noise. It is all distortion to me. I agree that the ADM test methodology is pretty much the same as the one discussed in the thread. I'd like to learn a bit more about it. I even thought I might try it myself, although I doubt that I ever will. It is one thing to waste my time when I am supposed to be working my day job debating the merits of this, but quite another to waste my precious listening time at home! But I hope the technique gets more widespread use. I don't think we are getting the whole story with the tools we have been using for the past 50 years or so. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
I reckon if most people did that ADM test (PCM ripped from CD compared to same file played through transport+dac recorded by a very good sound card) they'd get pretty depressed... Actually that reminds me, I must put some time aside for more ADM testing. This method is brilliant for comparing DAC accuracy. I must compare my M1 Dac against the Touch internal DAC. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630488 Wrote: Yes they can be angled down slightly. 5ft better then ? Big difference ? Before you finally decide, sit and listen while someone holds the speaker for you so you can try different heights. Can the speaker be mounted so the tweeter is at the bottom? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630490 Wrote: In my little mind, I am considering distortion to be any difference between the ideal signal waveform and the one I get in my system. Harmonic distortion, non-harmonic distortion, or noise. It is all distortion to me. Terry, if so perhaps you should reconsider this idea that lower amplitude signals shouldn't lose fidelity. If you look at an analogue signal (music, film whatever) as the sounds or forms being represented get smaller they will degrade in relative quality - assuming you amplify the sound or magnify the image enough to be able to observe this. Again, the same is the case with digital. Regardless of which definition of dynamic range is used, logic says to me this is just part and parcel of any format...? Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB3, SB Touch SqueezeControl for Android darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;630491 Wrote: This method is brilliant for comparing DAC accuracy. I must compare my M1 Dac against the Touch internal DAC. Obviously, you need to know how accurate your ADC is first! Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB3, SB Touch SqueezeControl for Android darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Upside down ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630507 Wrote: Upside down ? Yes -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
darrenyeats;630498 Wrote: Terry, if so perhaps you should reconsider this idea that lower amplitude signals shouldn't lose fidelity. If you look at an analogue signal (music, film whatever) as the sounds or forms being represented get smaller they will degrade in relative quality - assuming you amplify the sound or magnify the image enough to be able to observe this. Again, the same is the case with digital. Regardless of which definition of dynamic range is used, logic says to me this is just part and parcel of any format...? Darren I don't think it has to be. It seems like more a limitation of our present state of the art that noise is always present. It is in albums for sure. Tape to lesser degrees depending on the tape speed and any processing (dolby, dBx, whatever used). For digital, we should be able to drive it down to the LSB. I think that can be done now, even for 24 bit systems. It seems to me that the goal would be to reproduce the entire range of music we are interested in without corrupting it in any way. To reproduce the range of classical music in a good concert hall might easily approach 100 dB from the loudest to the very quietest sounds that could be heard. And I see no reason to assume that the quietest sounds must be distorted in any way. If it is the dying strains of a violin fadding slowly into silence, it should be clean. A rock concert might be even worse. And just because the rock instruments might be intentionally distorted doesn't change anything. My system should reproduce those distortions exactly. And just because it is impossible to go to a concert without someone coughing during the quiet parts doesn't matter either. My system should be able to reproduce it anyway. Do I want the middle of my TV picture blocked out just because it is impossible to go to a movie without a tall guy sitting directly in front of me? The human ear is amazing in its ability to distinguish sounds. can it hear distortion in a signal that is near the lower threshold of hearing? I wouldn't bet against it. I'm an audiophile. I won't settle for less than perfection (in theory). In reality, my wallet will make a different decision for me. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630515 Wrote: To reproduce the range of classical music in a good concert hall ... takes a concert hall, and a classical orchestra. Squeezing the acoustics of the whole room through the limitations of any stereo system, will have a profound, negative effect on the music. Trying to get a perfect representation of that, is like expecting a camera to take a picture so good that you can walk around it and see the scene from behind. Ain't gonna happen. At least not with today's technology. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
By default the tweeter is at the top, would it make a difference turning them through 90 ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
tank121;630526 Wrote: By default the tweeter is at the top, would it make a difference turning them through 90 ? 90° most likely results in nothing good. Turning them 180° and the tweeter upside down may need the change of the polarity of the tweeter. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Wombat;630527 Wrote: Turning them 180° and the tweeter upside down may need the change of the polarity of the tweeter. That sounds odd. Why is that? -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Soulkeeper;630529 Wrote: That sounds odd. Why is that? Must be some phase thing especialy with 12dB designs. Depending on the listening/meassuring position you need to switch polarity when moving the design 180° I did measure that on several speakers on my own and you will find some 12dB designs that run the tweeter in phase even if you have to run it out of phase in theory when the tweeter is mounted downside. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Doh 180 is what i meant, what advantages would it have ? -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
@Wombat: AFAIU, those problems come from the distance between the listener and the tweeter versus the distance between the listener and the woofer, and if so, can't you just adjust the angle of the speakers to get the timing/coherence right? Or is there something else at play? If timing/coherence really is the main problem, I'm inclined to believe that it can be better (and more easily) solved by adjusting the tilt of the speakers, instead of inverting the phase of the tweeters. @tank121: I guess it would align the height of the tweeters better to your ears when you're sitting down. And perhaps give the woofers more physical room to ... woof ... in, without reflecting off the floor, or something. But as it was Phil Leigh who mentioned turning the speakers upside down, I'll look forward to his answer. Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool... well, it's too late for me now anyway. :D -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
JohnSwenson;630318 Wrote: This theoretically COULD be done with USB DACs, but it could be a little iffy. Running a USB DAC is FAR more touchy on the Touch, you can get ticks and pops etc quite easily, using TWO of them is going to make this WAY more likely to happen. The best bet would be very simple 16 bit only DACs, just 44.1, adaptive (NO asynchronous 24 bit DACs need apply for this). DACs that use the 2706 type USB chip would probably work. You would set the ALSA config using the existing method for having the data stream sent to two different DACs, then use amixer to change the volume between then. It might work. You would have to write an applet that got events from the IR system and then ran amixer with the right options to change the volumes. Another major issue is going to be setting the names between the two DACs. With two DACs you are going to have bizzare things happening as to names and card numbers. Someone recently posted a UDEV scheme for properly naming USB DACs, you would need to extend this for two DACs so you could guarantee that ALSA was talking to the right things all the time. So yes it might be possible, but its not going to be trivial. NOTE: I am NOT volunteering to do this! John S. Hi John, Thanks for the reply, what you describe is the kind of thing that I was thinking of... perhaps it is overkill for what I need and I think that something along the lines of Phil's suggestion is the way to go in this instance. I have just got hold of a USB DAC so I'll have a bit of fun playing around with that and the Touch, thanks for the info on your thread - very handy. Jack. -- jackocleebrown jackocleebrown's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10623 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Soulkeeper;630535 Wrote: @Wombat: AFAIU, those problems come from the distance between the listener and the tweeter versus the distance between the listener and the woofer, and if so, can't you just adjust the angle of the speakers to get the timing/coherence right? Or is there something else at play? If timing/coherence really is the main problem, I'm inclined to believe that it can be better (and more easily) solved by adjusting the tilt of the speakers, instead of inverting the phase of the tweeters. @tank121: I guess it would align the height of the tweeters better to your ears when you're sitting down. And perhaps give the woofers more physical room to ... woof ... in, without reflecting off the floor, or something. But as it was Phil Leigh who mentioned turning the speakers upside down, I'll look forward to his answer. Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool... well, it's too late for me now anyway. :D Rotating a given design kills the finetuning that may have come into a given crossover design. The vendor should suggest how to position the speaker. Rotating, up-down and one more around is a gamble. You may be lucky but better is imho to use the speakers as they were designed to work. And yes, if you don´t change the hight of the position but rotate them 180° you should change the polarity. When you rotate them and move them up the wall you most likely won´t have to. Better to measure such things... -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
The speakers being discussed here do not have time-aligned drivers, they have very simple crossovers. I think you will find they work perfectly fine upside down with the tweeter at ear height. My original advice stands - try it and see. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Soulkeeper;630521 Wrote: ... takes a concert hall, and a classical orchestra. Squeezing the acoustics of the whole room through the limitations of any stereo system, will have a profound, negative effect on the music. Trying to get a perfect representation of that, is like expecting a camera to take a picture so good that you can walk around it and see the scene from behind. Ain't gonna happen. At least not with today's technology. Read about, for instance, the 'Soundfield microphone' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundfield_microphone), or 'wave field synthesis' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_field_synthesis) in general, and what it can be used for. Consider its limitations, and at the same time its superiority over the normal music recording technologies that has generally been used to record the music albums in our collections. Consider what playback equipment would be required to accurately recreate wave field recordings. The difference between the recorded material that we have access to, and the idealized, perfect acoustical illusion of presence, is so vast it's hard to fathom. +1 Indeed - and what makes Blumleins old trick so effective that it allows to even imagine depth and height :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630515 Wrote: I don't think it has to be. It seems like more a limitation of our present state of the art that noise is always present. It is in albums for sure. Tape to lesser degrees depending on the tape speed and any processing (dolby, dBx, whatever used). For digital, we should be able to drive it down to the LSB. I think that can be done now, even for 24 bit systems. It seems to me that the goal would be to reproduce the entire range of music we are interested in without corrupting it in any way. To reproduce the range of classical music in a good concert hall might easily approach 100 dB from the loudest to the very quietest sounds that could be heard. And I see no reason to assume that the quietest sounds must be distorted in any way. If it is the dying strains of a violin fadding slowly into silence, it should be clean. A rock concert might be even worse. And just because the rock instruments might be intentionally distorted doesn't change anything. My system should reproduce those distortions exactly. And just because it is impossible to go to a concert without someone coughing during the quiet parts doesn't matter either. My system should be able to reproduce it anyway. Do I want the middle of my TV picture blocked out just because it is impossible to go to a movie without a tall guy sitting directly in front of me? The human ear is amazing in its ability to distinguish sounds. Can it hear distortion in a signal that is near the lower threshold of hearing? I wouldn't bet against it. I'm an audiophile. I won't settle for less than perfection (in theory). In reality, my wallet will make a different decision for me. Terry You don't get anything like 100dB of SNR in any concert hall because of the 30dB-40dB (minimum, if you ar every lucky) of ambient/background noise. Your ears would be literally bleeding at 140dB. In essence this is why 16-bit/96dB is adequate for PLAYBACK. The biggest Dynamic Range we need to reproduce is between the ambient noise floor and the pain threshold - so that would be about 80dB. Even the very best 24-bit ADC's used for audio can only capture 21 bits (128dB SNR) - the rest is always pure electronic/thermal noise. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will Logitech Revue Google TV wipe out Squeezebox?
Phil Leigh;630410 Wrote: Also I don't want anything Apple in the house until such time as their USP becomes solely a blend of functionality, price and styling, rather than proprietary BS. Isn't it amazing that so few people actually see through Apple's very sharp marketing and the absolutely fawning media coverage over anything i to get at the heart of the beast. How much longer before Apple decides that flac support would be a good thing? Phil Leigh;630410 Wrote: The Revue looks cool for video. I might get one for video (but it needs some more features) but there may be better competitors - I haven't researched this. It will not be part of my audio system. As I stated earlier, I have a WD Live Plus (can be had for less than $100) which I use for streaming video, both from an attached hard drive and via the Internet (primarily Netflix) and it works great. Worth being on your short list should you decide to the streaming video route. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Phil Leigh;630553 Wrote: The speakers being discussed here do not have time-aligned drivers, they have very simple crossovers. I think you will find they work perfectly fine upside down with the tweeter at ear height. My original advice stands - try it and see. You have to time-align any speaker design with crossover parts, otherwise you won´t have a linear frequency response. Dali themself is marketing their designs with Time coherence is a must in any DALI speaker but who knows what they mean with that :) A 12dB crossover is what i expect with this set of drivers and cross-over point. It mustn´t be simple but i don´t find any details on their side. So in theory rotating will change the speakers behaviour. But this is all theory and you are right. Why not trying it. There are so many factors it may be the better thing that way around. I only may add that when trying to rotate the speaker someone may also try to change the polarity of the tweeeter ;) -- Wombat Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Soulkeeper;630521 Wrote: ... takes a concert hall, and a classical orchestra. Squeezing the acoustics of the whole room through the limitations of any stereo system, will have a profound, negative effect on the music. Trying to get a perfect representation of that, is like expecting a camera to take a picture so good that you can walk around it and see the scene from behind. Ain't gonna happen. At least not with today's technology. Read about, for instance, the 'Soundfield microphone' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soundfield_microphone), or 'wave field synthesis' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_field_synthesis) in general, and what it can be used for. Consider its limitations, and at the same time its superiority over the normal music recording technologies that has generally been used to record the music albums in our collections. Consider what playback equipment would be required to accurately recreate wave field recordings. The difference between the recorded material that we have access to, and the idealized, perfect acoustical illusion of presence, is so vast it's hard to fathom. I'm not allowed to dream? I'm just stating what the goal should be. Until it gets there, it is not done. For now, we should be able to close on a dynamic range and distortion that approaches the ideal. CD is certainly getting close. Granted, speakers are not going to support this kind of range (certainly not any speaker I will ever be able to afford). But headphones can blast out enough sound to make your nose bleed. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Wombat;630560 Wrote: You have to time-align any speaker design with crossover parts, otherwise you won´t have a linear frequency response. Dali themself is marketing their designs with Time coherence is a must in any DALI speaker but who knows what they mean with that :) A 12dB crossover is what i expect with this set of drivers and cross-over point. It mustn´t be simple but i don´t find any details on their side. So in theory rotating will change the speakers behaviour. But this is all theory and you are right. Why not trying it. There are so many factors it may be the better thing that way around. I only may add that when trying to rotate the speaker someone may also try to change the polarity of the tweeeter ;) You don't HAVE to try and time-align the drivers - lots of designs don't :-) Also to get perfect time-alignment in a passive multi-driver design usually requires some form of stepped baffle... This is another area where active designs often win out because it is much easier and cheaper to do high quality time-alignment at line level where you aren't limited to just inductors and capacitors. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Squeezebox Touch with two USB DACs
Or, if you feel like doing some hardware DIY, make an opto-mechanical TOSLINK switch from some optical cables, an RC car servo, some RC car circuitry for remote control, a light-proof box, and optionally a mirror. (Caveat lector, I've never tried this myself.) -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87592 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;630486 Wrote: Did you read the report that was the basis for the start of this thread? It used a high resolution ADC to read the output of the power amplifier and compare that same output when something in the chain was changed. In their case it was including cable supports or a better mains cable. And they claim to be able to measure the differences in the signal that those changes caused. I was only suggesting to expand that technique to compare a good analog signal to the same signal after being converted to Redbook CD. Terry Yes I did read it. In fact I specifically referred to the fact that it was having to digitise the output as the reason why i doubted that the OP had any relevance to distortion due to quantisation. That was exactly my point about why that method didn't make much sense for evaluating the resolution of a system at the limit. See also post 62. I have repeatedly said that I find it unlikely that you will get much out of it. You have worked out that it is comparing two digital files? Unless the whole chain has a lot more than 105db of snr I can't possibly see how it could evaluate the ability of a 16 bit dithered file to contain information below the noise floor. What about the quantisation effects in that adc and the noise and distortion in the dac and amp? I am guessing that the effects we were discussing are almost* certainly going to be buried in noise and distortion in chain. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
