Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Miles]

	I really don't get this. Applying a patch to a working OS isn't the  
same as adding oil to a running engine. You probably shouldn't do that  
either. So what's the big deal with a restart? On my Mac it's probably  
a good thing, since I haven't restarted in a week or more.


Jeff M


On Aug 8, 2009, at 3:55 AM, Reid Katan wrote:


Quoting "t.piwowar" :


On Aug 6, 2009, at 9:40 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:
You can expect it all you want.  *All* OSes have patches that need  
to be
applied and hardware should have its firmware at the latest spec  
at least

annually.


A properly engineered OS does not need to be restarted when patches  
are

applied. That's not M$. That's not Apple any more either.


That's funny. Every time my MacBook updates, it tells me I've got to  
shut down. No choice in the matter, whether I want to do it now, or  
wait 'till later. I can't find the Start Button, so it *must* be OSX.



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Re: [CGUYS] jason calacanis essay on apple

[mike]

No.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 5:32 PM, TPiwowar  wrote:

>
>
>   Do you think Apple's management isn't trying to find a way out of this
> crazy corner that their legal department has backed them into?
>
>
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Tony B]

I'm sorry I misunderstood. So you have an older dial-up connection
that's charged by the minute? Yes, that was the heyday of mailing
lists. They were actually designed around that type of scenario. But
since most everyone has unmetered connections, or always-on broadband
these days, that reasoning makes little sense any longer.

Besides, now that browsers are as fast as email clients, it no longer
makes any sense for most of us to use anything else for email.


2009/8/9 Rev. Stewart Marshall :
> The discussion lists I see, are all on line or the cloud.
>
> To follow it you need to be on line!
>
> With an email list, you download you email read the relevant posts, respond 
> send and that is it.
>
> I prefer email.
>
> Does not tie me up to open the browser see what has transpired, and then 
> respond.
>
> My wife does it with some of her discussion stuff.
>
> Would drive me crazy.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> At 10:54 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> Huh? This is so far out of left field I just have to ask what you can
>> possibly mean by it???  Why would anyone - admin, moderator, or
>> member, need to be online all the time? And how could anyone without
>> web access still use a mailing list?


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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

The discussion lists I see, are all on line or the cloud.

To follow it you need to be on line!

With an email list, you download you email read the relevant posts, 
respond send and that is it.


I prefer email.

Does not tie me up to open the browser see what has transpired, and 
then respond.


My wife does it with some of her discussion stuff.

Would drive me crazy.

Stewart


At 10:54 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

Huh? This is so far out of left field I just have to ask what you can
possibly mean by it???  Why would anyone - admin, moderator, or
member, need to be online all the time? And how could anyone without
web access still use a mailing list?


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Tony B]

Huh? This is so far out of left field I just have to ask what you can
possibly mean by it???  Why would anyone - admin, moderator, or
member, need to be online all the time? And how could anyone without
web access still use a mailing list?


On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Rev. Stewart
Marshall wrote:
> To do the discussion you must have web access and you must be online all the
> time.


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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Depends on what you are doing.

Some folks still prefer an email list.

Others want an online discussion list.

I have seen both.

To do the discussion you must have web access and you must be online 
all the time.


To do an email list it is much simpler for many folks who do not have 
the time to monitor the web 24/7.


It depends on what he wants but one or the other should be suitable.

Stewart


At 10:12 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

These days you do not want a mailing list; you want a web forum.
Mailing lists are yesterday's news.


2009/8/8 Jordan :
> I don't know if this is just for Tom or if others have an 
understanding of this but: I'm considering starting List for a 
local food group I'm involved with. I've started looking at some 
manuals from L-Soft and AOL, and they are voluminous. The LISTSERV 
list owners guide looks like it will tell me where one can be 
started and how to start one but do you have any suggestions of 
where, or anything else that might be helpful?


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Tony B]

These days you do not want a mailing list; you want a web forum.
Mailing lists are yesterday's news.


2009/8/8 Jordan :
> I don't know if this is just for Tom or if others have an understanding of 
> this but: I'm considering starting List for a local food group I'm involved 
> with. I've started looking at some manuals from L-Soft and AOL, and they are 
> voluminous. The LISTSERV list owners guide looks like it will tell me where 
> one can be started and how to start one but do you have any suggestions of 
> where, or anything else that might be helpful?


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> Being a free-market Capitalist

You owe me a new monitor.  This one has a spit-take all over it.

> I would have to insist that it is a
> management responsibility to navigate through such rough waters.

And they do, but not as the status quo.  Hard choices are made quite often,
to ensure the perpetuation of the organization.

Good management has more than your simplistic options A & B on their menu.

> If
> times have changed and the need being met by the non-profit are no
> longer a priority then it is time for the non-profit to close up
> shop. The Tribe Has Spoken.

That happens too.


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Happening to the tune of about 30+ per week closing doors, or hiring 
off the grid.


Stewart


At 09:34 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

Being a free-market Capitalist I would have to insist that it is a
management responsibility to navigate through such rough waters. If
times have changed and the need being met by the non-profit are no
longer a priority then it is time for the non-profit to close up
shop. The Tribe Has Spoken.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Yes and no.

It always depends on what you are looking for.

There are things the megachurches can do that I cannot.  I do not 
compete with them on those criteria.  Many of the folks looking want 
that criteria and they go there.


We offer some different things that megchurches cannot offer.  So we 
do what we do best.


However here is an interesting note.  The megachurches are having 
problems.  They along with the ret of us are seeing fewer and fewer 
folks join and stay memebrs.


Younger folk are not interested in organized religion.

We are a little bit easier to adapt so we will need to figure out how 
to do that.


It will not be easy but it must be done.

Churches are the one institution that should believe in a mix of 
socialism and free market.


Stewart

At 09:30 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

On Aug 8, 2009, at 9:10 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

Churches cannot be run like businesses.  They are churches whole
different ball game.
By the way the management of any church is the parishioners!


I wholeheartedly agree with you.

But those of us who believe in the free market also believe in the
goodness of Walmart and megachurches.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 9:39 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:
Non-profits can have funding issues for all sorts of reasons aside  
from
management.  Changes in city or state administrations can change  
funding
priorities.  Economic upheavals can drastically reduce giving or  
endowments

with little warning.  Boards can become demanding and/or interfering.
Disasters strike.  Unprecedented outside events can stretch  
resources thin.
Culture changes, interest wanes, tastes migrate.  Funding  
foundations can
have a change in leadership and direction.  Underwriting companies  
can go
under or be bought.  Sugar daddies/mommas die with poorly written  
wills.


Being a free-market Capitalist I would have to insist that it is a  
management responsibility to navigate through such rough waters. If  
times have changed and the need being met by the non-profit are no  
longer a priority then it is time for the non-profit to close up  
shop. The Tribe Has Spoken.





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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 9:10 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Churches cannot be run like businesses.  They are churches whole  
different ball game.

By the way the management of any church is the parishioners!


I wholeheartedly agree with you.

But those of us who believe in the free market also believe in the  
goodness of Walmart and megachurches.





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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

In many cases when a supporter dies the non-profit gets zilch.

Families have a tendency to look out for families.

I have had a few that before they got sick took the unprecedented 
step of setting up trusts/endowments to look after non-profit or the 
aims of the non-profit.


It is not common and takes a lot of footwork before hand.

Stewart


At 08:39 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

Non-profits can have funding issues for all sorts of reasons aside from
management.  Changes in city or state administrations can change funding
priorities.  Economic upheavals can drastically reduce giving or endowments
with little warning.  Boards can become demanding and/or interfering.
Disasters strike.  Unprecedented outside events can stretch resources thin.
Culture changes, interest wanes, tastes migrate.  Funding foundations can
have a change in leadership and direction.  Underwriting companies can go
under or be bought.  Sugar daddies/mommas die with poorly written wills.

But none of that matters.  This is Tom's Rule of Social Intercourse #1 at
work.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> Yes, bad management tends to be a problem.

Ya think? 

Is this your flow chart?

Bad management? > Yes
|
|
V
Yes

Non-profits can have funding issues for all sorts of reasons aside from
management.  Changes in city or state administrations can change funding
priorities.  Economic upheavals can drastically reduce giving or endowments
with little warning.  Boards can become demanding and/or interfering.
Disasters strike.  Unprecedented outside events can stretch resources thin.
Culture changes, interest wanes, tastes migrate.  Funding foundations can
have a change in leadership and direction.  Underwriting companies can go
under or be bought.  Sugar daddies/mommas die with poorly written wills.

But none of that matters.  This is Tom's Rule of Social Intercourse #1 at
work.


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Tom 80% of the population go to megachurches.

However 80% of our churches are smaller single staff churches.

The only paid staff is me and I am there whenever they want me and do 
a lot of work at home also.


Churches cannot be run like businesses.  They are churches whole 
different ball game.


By the way the management of any church is the parishioners!

Stewart


At 07:49 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:
Yes, bad management tends to be a problem. I recently watched a once

prosperous church go through a change in management. New managers
crowed about reforming past practices to run things in a more
business-like manner. Long-time members became furious and
contributions dried up. Long time volunteers and staff retired
"early." New staff wants to be paid and leaves punctually at 5PM. The
place definitely feels more business like.

You may continue to attack me for advocating good management.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Reid Katan]

Quoting TPiwowar :


On Aug 8, 2009, at 6:55 AM, Reid Katan wrote:
That's funny. Every time my MacBook updates, it tells me I've got   
to shut down. No choice in the matter, whether I want to do it now,


I suggest moving your lips as you read or maybe reading aloud. I wrote
"That's not Apple any more either."


You mean they've changed their ways in the last couple of weeks? Since  
my last update? I'm looking forward to it.



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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 8:08 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
Tom many non-profits have very slim line budgets a few people on  
their staff and many many volunteer workers.


Yes, bad management tends to be a problem. I recently watched a once  
prosperous church go through a change in management. New managers  
crowed about reforming past practices to run things in a more  
business-like manner. Long-time members became furious and  
contributions dried up. Long time volunteers and staff retired  
"early." New staff wants to be paid and leaves punctually at 5PM. The  
place definitely feels more business like.


You may continue to attack me for advocating good management.




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Re: [CGUYS] jason calacanis essay on apple

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 7:33 PM, mike wrote:
That is a link to his listerv, you would have to subscribe to read  
the post,
you could unsub after if you like however his posts are few and far  
so it's
not a big deal.  I'd post the article here but he requests that any  
repost

be given permission first.


Just go here and read it with no fuss... http://calacanis.com/

Long story short: Apple's App Store approval process is oppressive.

Didn't I post the same complaint against Apple a few days ago?

Apple is spending a lot of money to support a process that is making  
their customers unhappy, their developers unhappy, and their product  
less competitive. Do you think Apple's management isn't trying to  
find a way out of this crazy corner that their legal department has  
backed them into?





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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 8:09 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

Agreed yahoogroups.


Look at both. They offer different services. Let you needs determine  
your choice.






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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Agreed yahoogroups.

Stewart


At 06:40 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

yahoo

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Jordan  wrote:

> I don't know if this is just for Tom or if others have an understanding of
> this but: I'm considering starting List for a local food group I'm involved
> with. I've started looking at some manuals from L-Soft and AOL, 
and they are

> voluminous. The LISTSERV list owners guide looks like it will tell me where
> one can be started and how to start one but do you have any suggestions of
> where, or anything else that might be helpful?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> *
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> *
>


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Billable hours software?

[db]

Anyone have recommendations for a "billable hours" tracking software

that is cross platform, can export to spreadsheet and can also be used 
with various PDA / Smartphone platforms?


db


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

OK I know I asked for you to respond but you are being a plain old 
mass about it.


Tom many non-profits have very slim line budgets a few people on 
their staff and many many volunteer workers.


We don't get the cheapest but we cannot afford the most expensive.

So unless you are paying the bills or donating to the 
non-profit.  You need to keep opinions like yours to yourself.  They 
do not serve a positive purpose and make you look stupid.


I have to pay about 90-95% of my tech budget out of my own 
pocket.  No one else is ponying up to do it.  Also note I have not 
seen a raise in 3 years so I need to cut corners where ever I can.


Everyone else is allowed to raise their prices, but I am not.

Like I said when you learn to live in the real world instead of the 
world according to Tom, we might start listening to you and 
respecting your opinions once more.


Rant mode off.

Stewart


At 06:55 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:
There are two ways to handle budget problems.


One is to cut back, fire highest-paid staff, run with the cheapest
hardware, buy the cheapest instead of the best software, etc. The
result is low morale, low productivity, less income, more budget
problems, and more pressure to do more with less.

The other is to take care of your best workers, run with hardware
that makes your staff most productive, get the software that boosts
productivity the most, develop new products, increase marketing, etc.
The result is high morale, high productivity, more income, and less
worry about budget problems. You get to do more with more.

Earlier this week I was at a client as they were finishing their
September issue. The publisher was walking down the hall carrying the
bluelines and chortling "I've got $400,000 in my hands." That one
issue is going to cover most of their operating costs for the year.
And yes, their other issues will make them money too.

I'll leave it to our sad sack WFBs to struggle with doing less with
less.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> There are two ways to handle budget problems.

Therein lies your problem: a total and complete lack of vision.

The real world isn't binary.
 
> I'll leave it to our sad sack WFBs to struggle with doing less with
> less.

We do just fine, since we don't have to pay the Apple tax.


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 10:31 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

Obviously you have never had to live within budgets.
Very often many of us are being asked to do more with LESS


There are two ways to handle budget problems.

One is to cut back, fire highest-paid staff, run with the cheapest  
hardware, buy the cheapest instead of the best software, etc. The  
result is low morale, low productivity, less income, more budget  
problems, and more pressure to do more with less.


The other is to take care of your best workers, run with hardware  
that makes your staff most productive, get the software that boosts  
productivity the most, develop new products, increase marketing, etc.  
The result is high morale, high productivity, more income, and less  
worry about budget problems. You get to do more with more.


Earlier this week I was at a client as they were finishing their  
September issue. The publisher was walking down the hall carrying the  
bluelines and chortling "I've got $400,000 in my hands." That one  
issue is going to cover most of their operating costs for the year.  
And yes, their other issues will make them money too.


I'll leave it to our sad sack WFBs to struggle with doing less with  
less.





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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Christopher Range]

b_s-wilk wrote:
The website I was referring to is this: What is an SAR rating 
 


That site is ancient history, and mostly irrelevant if you're 
tethering your phone or using a wired headset. Most [none?] of those 
phones aren't being sold any more.


I'd love to have a cheap data plan to use for a few days here and 
there when I'm not home, if this would work. Can't always piggy back 
on open networks or find a cafe with WiFi. 
Cell phone radiation is still a problem.  Just because the SAR #'s are 
seemingly lower, that doesn't mean a person can talk longer on the cell 
phone.  With all the extras' on the phone, that is what the cell phone 
companies are encouraging.  Thereby, Nullifying any advantage of a lower 
SAR rating.



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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Judy Cosler]

yahoo

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Jordan  wrote:

> I don't know if this is just for Tom or if others have an understanding of
> this but: I'm considering starting List for a local food group I'm involved
> with. I've started looking at some manuals from L-Soft and AOL, and they are
> voluminous. The LISTSERV list owners guide looks like it will tell me where
> one can be started and how to start one but do you have any suggestions of
> where, or anything else that might be helpful?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> *
> **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
> **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
> *
>


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[CGUYS] jason calacanis essay on apple

[mike]

An interesting essay on what apple was, is and becoming.  One theme being
that apple has become even more the anti competitive villain then MS ever
was.  His example being that at it's worst, you could always install another
browser on windows, but with the iphone, apple forbids the use of any
browser but theirs.

https://my.binhost.com/lists/listinfo/jason

That is a link to his listerv, you would have to subscribe to read the post,
you could unsub after if you like however his posts are few and far so it's
not a big deal.  I'd post the article here but he requests that any repost
be given permission first.


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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 3:52 PM, b_s-wilk wrote:
 It's that many 3G GSM phones can be used for a data plan that  
costs much less than most other plans per month. I'm not touting  
that phone or the provider. Any provider with that rate will be fine.


The iPhone is GSM, isn't it?

Has anybody tried this?




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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Christopher Range]

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

I gathered that but was wondering why you sent us to that site?

:-)

Stewart 
Because, The cell phone companies are always pitching phones with 
supposedly great features.  Yet, They never mention the SAR(Specific 
Absorption Rate) of the phone.  If it is rated above 1.6W/kg in the U.S. 
or Canada, then, it would be in violation of the respective countries 
regulations, meaning it could not be marketed in the country.  In 
Europe, it is 2W/kg.


The cell phone I use but don't like is a Verizon Samsung with an SAR 
rating of 1.2W/kg;  I have an LG KG-800 that I would love to use and, is 
under 1W/kg.  But the problem is, the KG-800 is a GSM phone and, Verizon 
runs on the CDMA network.


Cell phones may be convenient, but they are also dangerous.

Christopher


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Re: [CGUYS] LISTSERV

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 6:49 PM, Jordan wrote:
I don't know if this is just for Tom or if others have an  
understanding of this but: I'm considering starting List for a  
local food group I'm involved with. I've started looking at some  
manuals from L-Soft and AOL, and they are voluminous. The LISTSERV  
list owners guide looks like it will tell me where one can be  
started and how to start one but do you have any suggestions of  
where, or anything else that might be helpful?


STOP.

Look at Google Groups or Yahoo Groups. Both very good and simple.  
Many more features too.


These options were not available when this List started and we remain  
here through inertia. That is what I would do if I were starting today.






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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 6:19 PM, mike wrote:
My point being that only Tom in his hatred of MS could say the zune  
interface is an

abortion.


Except that Tom did not say that. Otherwise you are fine.




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[CGUYS] LISTSERV

[Jordan]

I don't know if this is just for Tom or if others have an understanding 
of this but: I'm considering starting List for a local food group I'm 
involved with. I've started looking at some manuals from L-Soft and AOL, 
and they are voluminous. The LISTSERV list owners guide looks like it 
will tell me where one can be started and how to start one but do you 
have any suggestions of where, or anything else that might be helpful?


Thanks.


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Jeff Wright]

> It is interesting that in your mind "interface is at worst just fine"
> translates into "matches iPod touch".  To me though, it says that
> the interface is manageable with a connotation that it is not great,
> which matches the impressions I've gathered.  But you are right
> that I should've let Mike speak for himself, and state my own
> opinions.

If it's anything like the current Zune interface, it will be very nice and
easy to navigate.  From the videos that I've seen, it looks very similar,
but with additional options and improved graphics.

> As for the points you made for the Zune HD, I could address
> them, but suffice it to say that it really does seem to me that while
> the Zune HD may have some points in its favor over the current
> generation of iPhones/Touch, they will not be nearly enough to be
> any kind of game changer (even assuming that Apple waits a while
> to update its line, which it won't).

Having owned both, I can say that the Zune is technologically superior and a
better design than the iPod.  The HD model is extending that superiority
even further.  But yeah, the iPod is the 8000 lb gorilla on the block.  No
games will be changed, but you will have another option to use.  You don't
have to depend on the iHegemony.


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Chris Dunford]

> It is interesting that in your mind "interface is at worst just fine"
> translates into "matches iPod touch".  To me though, it says that
> the interface is manageable with a connotation that it is not great,
> which matches the impressions I've gathered

Actually, most of the reviews I've read really like the interface.


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Reid Katan]

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM, TPiwowar  wrote:


I've read that M$ is giving away loads of Zune HDs to industry bloggers and
writers. That will no doubt generate lots of sycophantic stories for you to
quote. Proving nothing.


Quoting mike :


It's nice to know you've already decided to not believe any reviews of the
product, makes it so you won't have to read any...not that you would, or
even touch the device once it is out.  This makes life so easy on you I
imagine..no actual thought needed.  Fits your MO.


Check that pal! He's already decided to not believe any *positive*  
reviews of the Zune. Negative reviews will be spewed forth with  
reckless abandon to prove his point.



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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[mike]

I wasn't giving a review of the unit when I said that.  My point was that
the worst that could be said about it is, that it's just fine.  My point
being that only Tom in his hatred of MS could say the zune interface is an
abortion.  Anyone with an open mind and common sense could see the interface
and see that it has no glaring problems.  The zune has come far enough the
only thing keeping it down is the sheer power of the name brand ipod.


On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:00 PM, David K Watson wrote:

> It is interesting that in your mind "interface is at worst just fine"
> translates into "matches iPod touch".  To me though, it says that
> the interface is manageable with a connotation that it is not great,
> which matches the impressions I've gathered.  But you are right
> that I should've let Mike speak for himself, and state my own
> opinions.
>
> As for the points you made for the Zune HD, I could address
> them, but suffice it to say that it really does seem to me that while
> the Zune HD may have some points in its favor over the current
> generation of iPhones/Touch, they will not be nearly enough to be
> any kind of game changer (even assuming that Apple waits a while
> to update its line, which it won't).
>
>  From:Chris Dunford 
>>
>>  But consider the case Mike made for the Zune, a few posts back.
>>> If it was cited in an advertisement, it would read something like:
>>> "Mike says: 'superior processor' . 'interface is at worst just fine'.
>>> 'what is there to complain about except lateness issue?' " (Exact
>>> quotes, and I tried to not to change his meaning.)  Would that
>>> endorsement make you or anyone else want to go out and buy
>>> one?
>>>
>>
>> Of course not, but that wasn't the intent of Mike's message. If it had
>> been, it would've listed HD radio, HD video, OLED screen, Marketplace/Xbox
>> connectivity, full WiFi, lower price, etc. The message
>> was responding to negative comments. The basic theme that I got from it
>> was, "At the very worst it matches iPod Touch, which you like, so what's
>> your real beef?"
>>
>>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Chris Dunford]

> Reviewers are already commenting that "HD" is false advertising. To
> display HD it requires a dock (sold separately) and an HD TV (also
> sold separately). So typically M$ to launch a new product with a lie.

Sort of like an HD video player. I've heard you need a TV for those too.

Still no list of reasons.


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[David K Watson]

It is interesting that in your mind "interface is at worst just fine"
translates into "matches iPod touch".  To me though, it says that
the interface is manageable with a connotation that it is not great,
which matches the impressions I've gathered.  But you are right
that I should've let Mike speak for himself, and state my own
opinions.

As for the points you made for the Zune HD, I could address
them, but suffice it to say that it really does seem to me that while
the Zune HD may have some points in its favor over the current
generation of iPhones/Touch, they will not be nearly enough to be
any kind of game changer (even assuming that Apple waits a while
to update its line, which it won't).


From:Chris Dunford 


But consider the case Mike made for the Zune, a few posts back.
If it was cited in an advertisement, it would read something like:
"Mike says: 'superior processor' . 'interface is at worst just fine'.
'what is there to complain about except lateness issue?' " (Exact
quotes, and I tried to not to change his meaning.)  Would that
endorsement make you or anyone else want to go out and buy
one?


Of course not, but that wasn't the intent of Mike's message. If it  
had been, it would've listed HD radio, HD video, OLED screen,  
Marketplace/Xbox connectivity, full WiFi, lower price, etc. The  
message
was responding to negative comments. The basic theme that I got from  
it was, "At the very worst it matches iPod Touch, which you like, so  
what's your real beef?"





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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[db]

So what was the consensus... a viable strategy or currently irrelevant?

db

b_s-wilk wrote:
The website I was referring to is this: What is an SAR rating 
 


That site is ancient history, and mostly irrelevant if you're 
tethering your phone or using a wired headset. Most [none?] of those 
phones aren't being sold any more.


I'd love to have a cheap data plan to use for a few days here and 
there when I'm not home, if this would work. Can't always piggy back 
on open networks or find a cafe with WiFi.



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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Jeff Wright]

> Reviewers are already commenting that "HD" is false advertising. To
> display HD it requires a dock (sold separately) and an HD TV (also
> sold separately). 

There's an app for that.


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Want to talk about lairs?

Went to my cable providers website this week.

Saw an ad advertising 10mps cable Internet service for 39.95.

I called up their chat feature to see about getting this service for 
39.95 and was told I could not have it at that price it would cost me 
54.95 a month.


That is for new installs only!

It is rampant and all over the place and the FTC does not crack down on it.

Stewart



At 03:30 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

All those damn HDTV vendors!  LIARS!  They sell their so called HDTV's with
NO content and NO way to play HD unless you freakin BUY a blu ray player or
purchase sat/cable HD.  What liars!


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[mike]

All those damn HDTV vendors!  LIARS!  They sell their so called HDTV's with
NO content and NO way to play HD unless you freakin BUY a blu ray player or
purchase sat/cable HD.  What liars!

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:11 PM, TPiwowar  wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
>
>> The basic theme that I got from it was, "At the very worst it matches iPod
>> Touch, which you like, so what's your real beef?"
>>
>
> When did Apple introduce the iPod Touch that you are comparing the as yet
> unreleased Zune HD to?
>
> Reviewers are already commenting that "HD" is false advertising. To display
> HD it requires a dock (sold separately) and an HD TV (also sold separately).
> So typically M$ to launch a new product with a lie.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 3:40 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:

Name one instance where MS was "first" with something.  I'll wait.


Does it have to be legal?




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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[mike]

It's easy...yer a birther..a pinhead, a neocon drone.  You lack any skills
of perception, you listen to rush, to hannity and oreilly.  You aren't worth
commenting on, the question itself lacks merit because YOU do.

Nevermind he can't back up a thing he says and that's why the name calling
starts.  You birther.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Chris Dunford  wrote:

> > I beg you: Please, one of you make an actual point instead
> > of going around in circles like this, or let it drop.
>
> I made a point. I asked for his reasons why Zune HD is "vastly inferior".
> Three times. A pretty reasonable request, I thought. He responds, "Birther".
> WTF?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
The basic theme that I got from it was, "At the very worst it  
matches iPod Touch, which you like, so what's your real beef?"


When did Apple introduce the iPod Touch that you are comparing the as  
yet unreleased Zune HD to?


Reviewers are already commenting that "HD" is false advertising. To  
display HD it requires a dock (sold separately) and an HD TV (also  
sold separately). So typically M$ to launch a new product with a lie.





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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

What about per minute charges?

I do not understand how you can get the data link without connecting 
via minutes.


Something is off on that.

Stewart


At 02:52 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

You don't have to use that phone to get that rate, and you don't 
have to tether, but the phone needs to be unlocked GSM. You can use 
the phone, and/or your notebook, for data. The point isn't that 
particular phone. It's that many 3G GSM phones can be used for a 
data plan that costs much less than most other plans per month. I'm 
not touting that phone or the provider. Any provider with that rate 
will be fine.


You can put a SIM into a smart phone for tethering, but how much do 
you pay monthly for unlimited data? This is $1 a day only on days 
you use it; voice and SMS charges on the same phone can also be 
PAYGO. Do USB 3G dongles and PC cards for notebooks have better data 
rate charges?


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[b_s-wilk]

The website I was referring to is this: What is an SAR rating  


That site is ancient history, and mostly irrelevant if you're tethering 
your phone or using a wired headset. Most [none?] of those phones aren't 
being sold any more.


I'd love to have a cheap data plan to use for a few days here and there 
when I'm not home, if this would work. Can't always piggy back on open 
networks or find a cafe with WiFi.



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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Chris Dunford]

> I beg you: Please, one of you make an actual point instead
> of going around in circles like this, or let it drop.

I made a point. I asked for his reasons why Zune HD is "vastly inferior". Three 
times. A pretty reasonable request, I thought. He responds, "Birther". WTF?


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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[b_s-wilk]

Unlimited data for $30/mo., tethering to your PC or Mac. Is this a
deal?

I'm not getting it. The N3555 is a very uninteresting phone. Is the
idea that I have to carry a laptop with me all the time to get the
benefits of the data connection. Can I tether it to a smart phone
that will make use of the data? Why can't I just put the SIMM into a
smart phone?


You don't have to use that phone to get that rate, and you don't have to 
tether, but the phone needs to be unlocked GSM. You can use the phone, 
and/or your notebook, for data. The point isn't that particular phone. 
It's that many 3G GSM phones can be used for a data plan that costs much 
less than most other plans per month. I'm not touting that phone or the 
provider. Any provider with that rate will be fine.


You can put a SIM into a smart phone for tethering, but how much do you 
pay monthly for unlimited data? This is $1 a day only on days you use 
it; voice and SMS charges on the same phone can also be PAYGO. Do USB 3G 
dongles and PC cards for notebooks have better data rate charges?



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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review

[Chris Dunford]

> These views were from the hardcore of the
> gadget world, not pc mag or such mainstream review sites.

Oops. I'm sure you meant "M$ lackeys", not "PC Mag".


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Jeff Wright]

> An you have the temerity to accuse me of having a reality distortion
> field? Your beloved M$ is moving in a clockwise direction in the
> Southern Hemisphere, and in a counterclockwise direction in the
> Northern Hemisphere.

Yes, I do, and it's at full power right now.

Name one instance where MS was "first" with something.  I'll wait.

> The future belongs to Apple, Google, Amazon, and possibly the
> revitalized Palm.

The near future belongs to Google, MS and Linux to a certain degree.  Apple
certainly has a god deal of success with the mobile market right now, but it
still has to overcome Blackberry, which is still outselling it and at equal
revenue.  The rest of the market is closing in.  Whether or not the future
belongs to them remains to be seen. 

> Proving nothing. 

Herr Doctor's default setting.


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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Your fiance looks nice.

:-)

Stewart


At 02:20 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

OK that voyeuristic link was for? :-)


Stewart
That was a personal link in my original reply.  I never intended to 
send that link because, that is my fiance.  Thankfully Yahoo will be 
giving Geocities the ax.


Christopher


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

I gathered that but was wondering why you sent us to that site?

:-)

Stewart


At 02:15 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

b_s-wilk wrote:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Unlimited data for $30/mo., tethering to your PC or Mac. Is this a 
deal? I suppose you could do this with any unlocked 3G phone. 
Combine with DuoSIM, SIM Doubler, SIM Max cloner and/or WiFi, and 
use one provider for voice and another for data. Too good to be true?


http://www.phonenews.com/deal-turn-a-prepaid-nokia-3555-into-1day-3g-mobile-broadband-card-8626/

The site I originally posted, was not the intended site I was referring to.

The website I was referring to is this: What is an SAR rating 



Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
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Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[David K Watson]

This sounds too much like the children's argument,
"I know you are, but what am I?".  Rather than waiting for the
 "No you are" from Tom, and a "No YOU are" back from
you, I beg you: Please, one of you make an actual point instead
of going around in circles like this, or let it drop.

Of course, that plea never worked with my Mom, either.


From:Chris Dunford 


On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:

Still waiting for the list of reasons why it's "vastly inferior".


Birther.


Yes, apparently you are.

We ask birthers for their reasoning, and we get none, just  
statements of "fact" with no supporting evidence. Precisely what  
you're doing right now.


Do you have any reasons for what you said, or don't you?




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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Christopher Range]

b_s-wilk wrote:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Unlimited data for $30/mo., tethering to your PC or Mac. Is this a deal? 
I suppose you could do this with any unlocked 3G phone. Combine with 
DuoSIM, SIM Doubler, SIM Max cloner and/or WiFi, and use one provider 
for voice and another for data. Too good to be true?


http://www.phonenews.com/deal-turn-a-prepaid-nokia-3555-into-1day-3g-mobile-broadband-card-8626/

The site I originally posted, was not the intended site I was referring to.

The website I was referring to is this: What is an SAR rating 




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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Christopher Range]

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

OK that voyeuristic link was for? :-)


Stewart 
That was a personal link in my original reply.  I never intended to send 
that link because, that is my fiance.  Thankfully Yahoo will be giving 
Geocities the ax.


Christopher


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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:53 PM, b_s-wilk wrote:
Unlimited data for $30/mo., tethering to your PC or Mac. Is this a  
deal?


I'm not getting it. The N3555 is a very uninteresting phone. Is the  
idea that I have to carry a laptop with me all the time to get the  
benefits of the data connection. Can I tether it to a smart phone  
that will make use of the data? Why can't I just put the SIMM into a  
smart phone?


I don't follow phone technology enough to understand this. Please  
explain.





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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

OK that voyeuristic link was for? :-)


Stewart


At 01:48 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

b_s-wilk wrote:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Unlimited data for $30/mo., tethering to your PC or Mac. Is this a 
deal? I suppose you could do this with any unlocked 3G phone. 
Combine with DuoSIM, SIM Doubler, SIM Max cloner and/or WiFi, and 
use one provider for voice and another for data. Too good to be true?


http://www.phonenews.com/deal-turn-a-prepaid-nokia-3555-into-1day-3g-mobile-broadband-card-8626/
Before pitching a cell phone or, drooling over its' features read 
information at the link below.  So, In future, you are not sucked in 
by all the features.


What is an SAR rating 




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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review

[mike]

Gimme a day or two..I'm not trying to avoid it, I've just looked at probably
50 youtube video reviews of iphone/pre/htc touch/htc diamond and a few
others along with reading about 50 blogs and review sites from the little
known to engadget about all the previously listed phones.  All I meant to
imply was that there are a few who think apple is lagging in such things as
being open and multitasking.  These views were from the hardcore of the
gadget world, not pc mag or such mainstream review sites.

I'll look and link.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:27 AM, David K Watson
wrote:

> Any examples would be appreciated.  Google didn't really help
> me.  I suppose I should try Bing, in light of recent stories that it
> is slanting its searches to be anti-Apple, but I'd like to know
> some examples of what it is that you are reading.
>
>
> On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:58 PM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system wrote:
>
>  From:mike 
>>
>> More in reference to the iphone.  Most of these references are in the
>> middle
>> of reviews of phones such as the palm or the hero coming out in the US
>> soon.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:10 AM, David K Watson > >wrote:
>>
>>  I haven't read anything about how "aged" the iPod has become, can
>>> you point me to one of those blogs?  On the other hand, every day
>>> I see several articles about a new or updated iPhone/iPod app.
>>> And you CAN customize your iPhone home screen, that came with
>>> version 2 of the OS.
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[Christopher Range]

b_s-wilk wrote:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Unlimited data for $30/mo., tethering to your PC or Mac. Is this a deal? 
I suppose you could do this with any unlocked 3G phone. Combine with 
DuoSIM, SIM Doubler, SIM Max cloner and/or WiFi, and use one provider 
for voice and another for data. Too good to be true?


http://www.phonenews.com/deal-turn-a-prepaid-nokia-3555-into-1day-3g-mobile-broadband-card-8626/
Before pitching a cell phone or, drooling over its' features read 
information at the link below.  So, In future, you are not sucked in by 
all the features.


What is an SAR rating 




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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Chris Dunford]

> But consider the case Mike made for the Zune, a few posts back.
> If it was cited in an advertisement, it would read something like:
> "Mike says: 'superior processor' . 'interface is at worst just fine'.
> 'what is there to complain about except lateness issue?' " (Exact
> quotes, and I tried to not to change his meaning.)  Would that
> endorsement make you or anyone else want to go out and buy
> one?

Of course not, but that wasn't the intent of Mike's message. If it had been, it 
would've listed HD radio, HD video, OLED screen, Marketplace/Xbox connectivity, 
full WiFi, lower price, etc. The message
was responding to negative comments. The basic theme that I got from it was, 
"At the very worst it matches iPod Touch, which you like, so what's your real 
beef?"


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Re: [CGUYS] Computer gadgets in cars

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

You dummy that is attached to the big ol CB antenna mounted to the 
bed of the PU.


Or as a decal on the back window.

Stewart


At 01:30 PM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

On Aug 8, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

If you lived down south you would know Gun Racks go in the back
window of your pick up truck along with a fishing rod or two.


But then where do I hang the Stars and Bars?


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review

[David K Watson]

Any examples would be appreciated.  Google didn't really help
me.  I suppose I should try Bing, in light of recent stories that it
is slanting its searches to be anti-Apple, but I'd like to know
some examples of what it is that you are reading.


On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:58 PM, COMPUTERGUYS-L automatic digest system  
wrote:



From:mike 

More in reference to the iphone.  Most of these references are in  
the middle
of reviews of phones such as the palm or the hero coming out in the  
US soon.


On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:10 AM, David K Watson >wrote:



I haven't read anything about how "aged" the iPod has become, can
you point me to one of those blogs?  On the other hand, every day
I see several articles about a new or updated iPhone/iPod app.
And you CAN customize your iPhone home screen, that came with
version 2 of the OS.



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Re: [CGUYS] Computer gadgets in cars

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 4:08 AM, Eric S. Sande wrote:

The gun discussion is not repeat NOT something that we need
to bring up on this list.  It is totally off topic unless we agree
that it has relevance, which it does not.


Deal. This OT topic is dead.




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Re: [CGUYS] Computer gadgets in cars

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:
If you lived down south you would know Gun Racks go in the back  
window of your pick up truck along with a fishing rod or two.


But then where do I hang the Stars and Bars?




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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jordan]

Jeff Wright wrote:

Every right winger like yourself has a stronger reality distortion field.
Now go back to your worship of Dick and Sara and leave the rational
discussion to others.



You know Jordan, I want to be nice to you, I really do. 

I an truly blessed!
 But then, you shoot your mouth off with such blinding, illiterate and shallow partisanship. 


Please don't.
  

You first.


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[David K Watson]

Yes, but Apple wasn't first in either the music player or smart phone
markets.  Both markets were considered to be fairly stable and
buttoned down until Apple came along and churned them up again.
Remember this review of the first iPod: "No wireless. Less space than
a nomad. Lame."?  Of course it wasn't particularly obvious then
what made the iPod so successful, so we could be missing what
is so great about the new competition for iPod/iPhones.

But consider the case Mike made for the Zune, a few posts back.
If it was cited in an advertisement, it would read something like:
"Mike says: 'superior processor' … 'interface is at worst just fine'…
'what is there to complain about except lateness issue?' " (Exact
quotes, and I tried to not to change his meaning.)  Would that
endorsement make you or anyone else want to go out and buy
one?

The Pre?  Looks very nice, but Palm hasn't released its sales
figures (a good indication that the Pre isn't catching fire), and
analysts mostly estimate that the Pre is doing OK but not
spectacularly.  I haven't read that much about WebOS recently,
but my impression was that developers thought it was easy to
develop for, but limited.  Enlighten me if I am wrong on this.

Android is more open in theory, but much of that openness is
restricted by the carriers at present, and I haven't heard a whole lot
about Android phone sales figures either.

The problem these competitors have is that Apple already has a
huge, well-developed iPod/iPhone/iTunes ecosystem, while they mostly
don't and have to work hard trying to create one.

In my own view, we haven't even begun to discuss a big group of
potential competitors for the iPhone, and that is Japanese  
manufacturers.

Japanese phones seem to have fantastic hardware capabilities, but
are hampered globally by somewhat bulky designs and lousy user
interfaces, and their manufacturers seem to be waking up to this.
They at least would have a substantial Japanese user base to
expand from.


From:Jeff Wright 


With 65,000 apps available for the iPhone and less than a dozen for
the competitors it is going to be very hard to catch up. The
competitors are still making some of the mistakes Apple made in its
early days and they will need to fix those first. Right now Apple
appears to be its own worst enemy with a nutty approval process at  
its
App Store. If they don't fix that soon there will be developer  
leakage

to the other platforms. I bet Apple will fix it soon.


Recent history is littered with those who were there "first" in their
particular field.

Palm, Sony, IBM, Apple, Xerox, etc.  Being first isn't first is no  
guarantee
of being the last man standing.  All of these companies were  
innovative, all

had a dominant lock on their market and all were soon surpassed by
competitors with better products.  In fact, if recent history is our  
guide,
being first with a successful, standard setting product is a high  
order of

probability that you will be the first to drop as the market matures.




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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Jordan]

TPiwowar wrote:

On Aug 8, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Jordan wrote:
That said, I'm happy with a regular iPod and the simplest of phones. 
I can ooo and aaah over the latest iGadgets and Palms without really 
wanting one.

I also don't have chunks of time, like a commute, where I could use one.


Me too, but it is getting harder and harder to resist. As a city 
person I'm totally in awe of the new geo-location features. In the 
past I have spent so many hours pouring over maps and transit 
schedules. To me this is a killer feature. I imagine being able to fly 
into a foreign city with almost no preparation. I can be sitting on 
the Spanish Steps and ask my iPod how to get to the Castel Sant'Angelo 
and it will tell me where to stand to get the bus that will be there 
in 5 minutes. This is awesome.


I understand and totally agree. If you live in or travel to an urban 
environment a GPS device would be great, and hard to resist. I live in 
the country and avoid urban areas. And I rarely travel without my car. 
There's no public transport to speak of where I live or where I travel to.
If I were you I would have one. And as much as I love maps, I'd probably 
get one if I were going to spend much time in a city or cities I don't know.



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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Chris Dunford]

> On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
> > Still waiting for the list of reasons why it's "vastly inferior".
> 
> Birther.

Yes, apparently you are. 

We ask birthers for their reasoning, and we get none, just statements of "fact" 
with no supporting evidence. Precisely what you're doing right now.

Do you have any reasons for what you said, or don't you?


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Re: [CGUYS] Computer gadgets in cars

[mike]

Because if you were asked to use it you would have to admit you have no idea
how.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:15 AM, TPiwowar  wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2009, at 2:50 AM, mike wrote:
>
>
>
> Why can't I walk into the Capitol with a Leatherman toolkit attached to my
> belt?
>


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Re: [CGUYS] Computer gadgets in cars

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 2:50 AM, mike wrote:
How about little facts like areas with high gun control have higher  
crimes
committed with said weapon and areas with concealed carry laws have  
less

crime?  I know silly little facts bug you leftists...get in the way of
getting rid of that pesky constitution.


You mean like areas that are immediately adjacent to states where  
felons can buy guns by the dozen and then drive over here?


Why can't I walk into the Capitol with a Leatherman toolkit attached  
to my belt?





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Re: [CGUYS] Scanners; was . . .

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 9:40 AM, Fred Holmes wrote:
What is your opinion of Fujitsu scanners?  They are not twain  
compliant and thus do not produce .gif, .tiff, etc. but they do  
produce .pdf and also, selectably, .jpg files.  I find my Fujitsu  
to be particularly good at making readable copy of "faint"  
documents.  The sheet feeder often skews the document a bit, but  
bundled Adobe Acrobat fixes that.  There would probably be less  
skew if the sheet feeder fed the document sideways.  The sheet  
feeder will take a stack of maybe 20 sheets and feed them through  
very quickly.  One has to use a carrier sheet for wrinkled pages or  
for other documents that don't feed correctly un-sheathed.


I have no experience with Fujitsu scanners. From what you write it  
looks like they are more oriented to OCR. I focus on graphic arts  
scanners. If a scanner's software can not produce a proper TIFF it is  
of no use to me.


Any scanner that has good software should be adjustable to handle  
faint documents, but most people do not know how to adjust their  
scanners. Ten years ago it has hard to find scanners with good D 
(min), but these days even cheap scanners have decent dynamic range.  
Back then many manufacturers did not give dynamic range specs because  
they did not want you to know. As things got better they started  
publishing the specs. Today they don't because it is not much of an  
issue.




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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 6:55 AM, Reid Katan wrote:
That's funny. Every time my MacBook updates, it tells me I've got  
to shut down. No choice in the matter, whether I want to do it now,  
or wait 'till later. I can't find the Start Button, so it *must* be  
OSX.


I suggest moving your lips as you read or maybe reading aloud. I  
wrote "That's not Apple any more either."





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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:

Still waiting for the list of reasons why it's "vastly inferior".


Birther.




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Re: [CGUYS] Excited/Emotional Over Technology [Was: Brutal Zune Review]

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 8:07 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
I just cannot get to the point of excessively using the L word,  
labially

caressing each letter as they pass through my lips.  I am just saying
that I cringe a bit when I hear things like, "Oh God, I LOOOVE my new
phone S much."  Chances are that in about 6 months that person is
either gonna be dumping that phone for a new one or will have lost it.
 So much for the power of love.


Serial monogamy? At least the spurned technology will not have a  
broken heart.


I did have that kind of strong emotional reaction when I saw my first  
Mac. Up to then I had been using mainframes. I had already graduated  
from punch cards to time sharing. I had tried CPM and DOS and was  
singularly unimpressed. Before I switched to a Mac I had a personal  
account at the Brookings computer center and had a computer terminal  
in my apartment. I had that same emotional reaction with the first  
iPod and I held on to the monster all to long. This year I finally  
replaced it with a Nano. I'm impressed with its small size, but I  
take it for granted -- no emotional connection. At some point I will  
find a way to justify having an iPhone fling and I expect there will  
be an emotional reaction. That will probably not happen until Apple  
breaks up with AT&T, a company that gives me a different emotional  
reaction.







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Re: [CGUYS] Excited/Emotional Over Technology [Was: Brutal Zune Review]

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 10:35 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
Actually, if you get that emotional over technology and gadgets,  
there are

other, more secure and padded places you should be.


You get plenty emotional over technology. It just doesn't seem to  
bring out as much love in you as it does the opposite emotion.





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[CGUYS] Turn $30 Prepaid Nokia 3555 Into $1/day 3G Mobile Broadband Card

[b_s-wilk]

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Unlimited data for $30/mo., tethering to your PC or Mac. Is this a deal? 
I suppose you could do this with any unlocked 3G phone. Combine with 
DuoSIM, SIM Doubler, SIM Max cloner and/or WiFi, and use one provider 
for voice and another for data. Too good to be true?

http://www.phonenews.com/deal-turn-a-prepaid-nokia-3555-into-1day-3g-mobile-broadband-card-8626/


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[mike]

It's nice to know you've already decided to not believe any reviews of the
product, makes it so you won't have to read any...not that you would, or
even touch the device once it is out.  This makes life so easy on you I
imagine..no actual thought needed.  Fits your MO.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM, TPiwowar  wrote:

>
>
> I've read that M$ is giving away loads of Zune HDs to industry bloggers and
> writers. That will no doubt generate lots of sycophantic stories for you to
> quote. Proving nothing.
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review

[mike]

Often, all the time in fact.  Right now.  I'm lying right now.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM, TPiwowar  wrote:

> On Aug 8, 2009, at 12:10 PM, David K Watson wrote:
>
>> I haven't read anything about how "aged" the iPod has become, can
>> you point me to one of those blogs?  On the other hand, every day
>> I see several articles about a new or updated iPhone/iPod app.
>> And you CAN customize your iPhone home screen, that came with
>> version 2 of the OS.
>>
>
> Of course you didn't. Mike is engaging in the Big Lie Technique, as he
> often does.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Jordan wrote:
That said, I'm happy with a regular iPod and the simplest of  
phones. I can ooo and aaah over the latest iGadgets and Palms  
without really wanting one.
I also don't have chunks of time, like a commute, where I could use  
one.


Me too, but it is getting harder and harder to resist. As a city  
person I'm totally in awe of the new geo-location features. In the  
past I have spent so many hours pouring over maps and transit  
schedules. To me this is a killer feature. I imagine being able to  
fly into a foreign city with almost no preparation. I can be sitting  
on the Spanish Steps and ask my iPod how to get to the Castel  
Sant'Angelo and it will tell me where to stand to get the bus that  
will be there in 5 minutes. This is awesome.





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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
You'll notice that "first" was in quotes in my post.  Very few  
companies are literally first, but they were the first with a  
successful and popular implementation of their product.


In quotes "splitting hairs."




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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Chris Dunford]

> I've read that M$ is giving away loads of Zune HDs to industry
> bloggers and writers. That will no doubt generate lots of sycophantic
> stories for you to quote. Proving nothing.

Still waiting for the list of reasons why it's "vastly inferior".


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 10:11 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
Palm, Sony, IBM, Apple, Xerox, etc.  Being first isn't first is no  
guarantee
of being the last man standing.  All of these companies were  
innovative, all

had a dominant lock on their market and all were soon surpassed by
competitors with better products.  In fact, if recent history is  
our guide,
being first with a successful, standard setting product is a high  
order of

probability that you will be the first to drop as the market matures.


An you have the temerity to accuse me of having a reality distortion  
field? Your beloved M$ is moving in a clockwise direction in the  
Southern Hemisphere, and in a counterclockwise direction in the  
Northern Hemisphere.


The future belongs to Apple, Google, Amazon, and possibly the  
revitalized Palm.


Can M$ turn things around by copying other's successes and bringing  
them to market two years late? There was a time when they could, but  
the Netscape case made their methods public and now much less  
effective. I don't think the dirty tricks of old will win the day for  
M$.


I've read that M$ is giving away loads of Zune HDs to industry  
bloggers and writers. That will no doubt generate lots of sycophantic  
stories for you to quote. Proving nothing.




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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review

[TPiwowar]

On Aug 8, 2009, at 12:10 PM, David K Watson wrote:

I haven't read anything about how "aged" the iPod has become, can
you point me to one of those blogs?  On the other hand, every day
I see several articles about a new or updated iPhone/iPod app.
And you CAN customize your iPhone home screen, that came with
version 2 of the OS.


Of course you didn't. Mike is engaging in the Big Lie Technique, as  
he often does.





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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review

[mike]

More in reference to the iphone.  Most of these references are in the middle
of reviews of phones such as the palm or the hero coming out in the US soon.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:10 AM, David K Watson wrote:

> I haven't read anything about how "aged" the iPod has become, can
> you point me to one of those blogs?  On the other hand, every day
> I see several articles about a new or updated iPhone/iPod app.
> And you CAN customize your iPhone home screen, that came with
> version 2 of the OS.
>
>
>  From:mike 
>>
>
>  There is talk on the blogs about how aged the ipod has become of late,
>> especially in reference between the iphone and palm pre.  How long till we
>> can run more then one app on the iphone?  Zero customization on the home
>> screen for the iphone is geting long in the tooth.  Android is going to
>> keep
>> getting better, and it will offer a wide variety of customizations for the
>> entire device that will continue to entice all kinds of users.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Jeff Wright  wrote:
>>
>>  I was thinking of asking myself but I'm sure we'll get more TomLogicT

>>>
>>> I believe 'logic' is spelled with a 'k' in that instance.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review

[David K Watson]

I haven't read anything about how "aged" the iPod has become, can
you point me to one of those blogs?  On the other hand, every day
I see several articles about a new or updated iPhone/iPod app.
And you CAN customize your iPhone home screen, that came with
version 2 of the OS.



From:mike 



There is talk on the blogs about how aged the ipod has become of late,
especially in reference between the iphone and palm pre.  How long  
till we
can run more then one app on the iphone?  Zero customization on the  
home
screen for the iphone is geting long in the tooth.  Android is going  
to keep
getting better, and it will offer a wide variety of customizations  
for the

entire device that will continue to entice all kinds of users.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Jeff Wright   
wrote:


I was thinking of asking myself but I'm sure we'll get more  
TomLogicT


I believe 'logic' is spelled with a 'k' in that instance.






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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> Every right winger like yourself has a stronger reality distortion field.
> Now go back to your worship of Dick and Sara and leave the rational
> discussion to others.

You know Jordan, I want to be nice to you, I really do.  But then, you shoot 
your mouth off with such blinding, illiterate and shallow partisanship. 

Please don't.


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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jordan]

Jeff Wright wrote:

Except this isn't true. You constantly talk derisively about the
people you are supposed to support and save the greater portion on
your spleen for those who are best able to do their work with Macs.
That is what makes it an issue.



I don't think I've ever known anyone with such a strong reality distortion
field.

You must like the way it makes you feel light on your feet, since it's
strength actually warps gravity.
  

Every right winger like yourself has a stronger reality distortion field.
Now go back to your worship of Dick and Sara and leave the rational 
discussion to others.



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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> Except this isn't true. You constantly talk derisively about the
> people you are supposed to support and save the greater portion on
> your spleen for those who are best able to do their work with Macs.
> That is what makes it an issue.

Let's get one thing clear right now.  I don't "constantly" talk derisively
about the people I work with.  In the decade + I've been on this list, I've
mentioned people I work with fewer times as you have fingers on your hands.
Even then, it was accurate depiction of the situation, events and
personalities of the people involved.  

OTOH, you spend an inordinate amount of your time and energy here sputtering
pejoratives, logical fallacies and projecting your own shortcomings onto
anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you.  Add to that, you are the
ultimate partisan, throwing stink bombs into the crowd as often as you can,
just to see how much crap you can stir up.  It may make for good
E*N*T*E*R*T*A*I*N*M*E*N*T on the list, but it has distinct limits of
tolerance.

I can take it as well as I give it and I haven't always behaved as well as I
should, but act like an arrogant and smug shithead, and that's all you'll
get in return, chief.  Act like a normal and civil human being and I'll
return it in kind.  

Give it a try, why don't you?


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Jeff Wright]

> This discussion is pretty much pure speculation but:
> The iPhone wasn't just first, it was about a generation and a half
> ahead. Given Apple's history of innovation it's more likely that they
> will innovate again than drop from popularity.

You'll notice that "first" was in quotes in my post.  Very few companies are 
literally first, but they were the first with a successful and popular 
implementation of their product.


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Jordan]

Jeff Wright wrote:

With 65,000 apps available for the iPhone and less than a dozen for
the competitors it is going to be very hard to catch up. The
competitors are still making some of the mistakes Apple made in its
early days and they will need to fix those first. Right now Apple
appears to be its own worst enemy with a nutty approval process at its
App Store. If they don't fix that soon there will be developer leakage
to the other platforms. I bet Apple will fix it soon.



Recent history is littered with those who were there "first" in their
particular field.

Palm, Sony, IBM, Apple, Xerox, etc.  Being first isn't first is no guarantee
of being the last man standing.  All of these companies were innovative, all
had a dominant lock on their market and all were soon surpassed by
competitors with better products.  In fact, if recent history is our guide,
being first with a successful, standard setting product is a high order of
probability that you will be the first to drop as the market matures.
  

This discussion is pretty much pure speculation but:
The iPhone wasn't just first, it was about a generation and a half 
ahead. Given Apple's history of innovation it's more likely that they 
will innovate again than drop from popularity.


That said, I'm happy with a regular iPod and the simplest of phones. I 
can ooo and aaah over the latest iGadgets and Palms without really 
wanting one.

I also don't have chunks of time, like a commute, where I could use one.


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Re: [CGUYS] Excited/Emotional Over Technology [Was: Brutal Zune Review]

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

You mean the ubiquitous 9th floor variety?

Stewart


At 09:35 AM 8/8/2009, you wrote:

> If you can't get emotional about technology,what are you doing here?

Actually, if you get that emotional over technology and gadgets, there are
other, more secure and padded places you should be.


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Excited/Emotional Over Technology [Was: Brutal Zune Review]

[Jeff Wright]

> If you can't get emotional about technology,what are you doing here?

Actually, if you get that emotional over technology and gadgets, there are
other, more secure and padded places you should be.


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

OK I will bite on this one.

Obviously you have never had to live within budgets.

Very often many of us are being asked to do more with LESS

Which means the $700 program is not an option as 
we cannot afford it.  We have to  make the bucks stretch over a bigger area.


So that means we do with less.  If there is a $90 
program out there that can do it, we will not spring for the $700 program.


Now if you can find me a way to get that $700 
program for a lot less (Which he did, if you did 
not note) that fits into the budget also.


Companies live on budgets. Non-profits live on shoe strings.

Stewart


At 01:27 AM 8/8/2009, you wrote:
Good example. Imperial IT management always assumes that they know how

to do everybody's job better than the people who were hired to do the
job.

I have actually had an Imperial IT manager ask me why not fire all the
graphic artists. He actually believed that one of his staff could do
all that in his spare time.

Why was management so stupid to hire all these phony experts when all
they needed was one Imperial IT department? Dammit we are going to get
rid of all those pesky managers too. All we really need is one
Imperial IT department!!! IT über alles!


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> That's funny. Every time my MacBook updates, it tells me I've got to
> shut down. No choice in the matter, whether I want to do it now, or
> wait 'till later. I can't find the Start Button, so it *must* be OSX.

Tom also never moves off of v. 1.0 of his applications.

Those later versions are just a corporate conspiracy to get him to
needlessly spend money and reboot his machines.


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Re: [CGUYS] BOGUS [was: Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> Good example. Imperial IT management always assumes that they know how
> to do everybody's job better than the people who were hired to do the
> job.

Tom is certified by the National Association of Petulance.  He knows what
he's talking about.

I would love to see Tom's client list one day.  I suspect there is a strong
correlation between companies that were doing OK, which then suddenly found
themselves so overwhelmed by the repair costs from water fixtures being
thrown through windows, that they had no choice but to go under.  


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Re: [CGUYS] Computer gadgets in cars

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Tom you must lead a sheltered life.

If you lived down south you would know Gun Racks go in the back 
window of your pick up truck along with a fishing rod or two.


Plus the required empty beer cans in the bed.

Stewart


At 11:51 PM 8/7/2009, you wrote:

On Aug 7, 2009, at 2:12 AM, Constance Warner wrote:

The fact that people engage in a lot of other risky behavior in
cars, with or without computerized components, is no argument in
favor of allowing  windshield-mounted GPS units.  They're a
distraction, however slight, and the difference between getting
across the street safely and getting turned into something like
Prego spaghetti sauce on the hood of a car can be just a fraction of
a second.


Today the radical right announced a move to allow gun carry in DC.
This would allow the driver to fire off a few warning rounds to
discourage you from blocking their right of way. No word on where gun
racks would be allowed in cars.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Brutal Zune Review..and on to winmo

[Jeff Wright]

> With 65,000 apps available for the iPhone and less than a dozen for
> the competitors it is going to be very hard to catch up. The
> competitors are still making some of the mistakes Apple made in its
> early days and they will need to fix those first. Right now Apple
> appears to be its own worst enemy with a nutty approval process at its
> App Store. If they don't fix that soon there will be developer leakage
> to the other platforms. I bet Apple will fix it soon.

Recent history is littered with those who were there "first" in their
particular field.

Palm, Sony, IBM, Apple, Xerox, etc.  Being first isn't first is no guarantee
of being the last man standing.  All of these companies were innovative, all
had a dominant lock on their market and all were soon surpassed by
competitors with better products.  In fact, if recent history is our guide,
being first with a successful, standard setting product is a high order of
probability that you will be the first to drop as the market matures.


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Re: [CGUYS] Ford! Chevy! Lather, rinse, repeat [Finally an FCC that earns its keep]

[Jeff Wright]

> Except this isn't true. You constantly talk derisively about the
> people you are supposed to support and save the greater portion on
> your spleen for those who are best able to do their work with Macs.
> That is what makes it an issue.

I don't think I've ever known anyone with such a strong reality distortion
field.

You must like the way it makes you feel light on your feet, since it's
strength actually warps gravity.


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Re: [CGUYS] Scanners; was . . .

[Fred Holmes]

What is your opinion of Fujitsu scanners?  They are not twain compliant and 
thus do not produce .gif, .tiff, etc. but they do produce .pdf and also, 
selectably, .jpg files.  I find my Fujitsu to be particularly good at making 
readable copy of "faint" documents.  The sheet feeder often skews the document 
a bit, but bundled Adobe Acrobat fixes that.  There would probably be less skew 
if the sheet feeder fed the document sideways.  The sheet feeder will take a 
stack of maybe 20 sheets and feed them through very quickly.  One has to use a 
carrier sheet for wrinkled pages or for other documents that don't feed 
correctly un-sheathed.

Fred Holmes

At 06:34 AM 8/8/2009, Rich Schinnell wrote:
>Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 06:34:13 -0400
>Reply-To: Computer Guys Discussion List 
>From: Rich Schinnell 
>Subject: [CGUYS] HP Drivers Nuts & Time Machine Madness [Was: Ford! Chevy! 
>Lather, rinse, repeat]
>To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>
>Another view on HP scanners:
>
>  I have a dr's office that has scanned over 56,000 patient records/files into 
> .PDF's and their HP scanners, while not the cheap ones, have worked very well 
> and produced quality scans. It has saved them considerable floor space for 
> file cabinets.
>
>Another law office scans their old client files into .pdf's and the HP scanner 
>has worked fine for a long time.
>
>But: they both have a dedicated workstation that does the scanning and the 
>output goes to a network drive.
>
>I have had zero problems with them..
>YMMV
>Rich


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