Re: [EVDL] AC Power export for Teslas

[Thos True via EV]

No I

On Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 10:24 AM (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:

> Apologies for not seeing that, I sometimes skim.
>
> On Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 10:00 AM Willie McKemie via EV 
> wrote:
>
> > As I mentioned earlier, I took the offer to transfer free SuperCharging
> to
> > a new car.  Since the SCing was of little value on the 2013.  Also
> > transferred FSD from a third car.  I now have a 2024 Y with both FSD and
> > free SC without additional costs.
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 11:13 (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:
> >
> > > Why did they take the free supercharging?   Salvage should be the only
> > > reason they do this.
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 8:16 AM Haudy Kazemi via EV  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >  SuperCharging is now not free and is
> > > > > limited to about 80kw.  I believe Tesla limits refurbished
> batteries
> > to
> > > > > such low power.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > My understanding is that the only available replacement packs that
> are
> > > sure
> > > > to restore fast Supercharging are the 16 module 100 kWh packs, and
> the
> > 14
> > > > module 90 kWh packs that are based in the 100 kWh packs.
> > > >
> > > > The rest are used packs of various age, or refurbished packs of
> various
> > > age
> > > > that may have received a non-cell or non-module level repair (say a
> BMS
> > > > board).
> > > >
> > > > >
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Re: [EVDL] '91 BMW 318i conversion to electric

[Thos True via EV]

Hey Peri,
That is kinda what I have been kicking around lately.  I have one of my
Dad's final projects, a Geo Metro 72 volt commuter.
My plan is to swap out the lead acid batteries with a lithium pack, adding
the best. Should make a cute run around car!
-Tom True

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024, 7:02 AM Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

> Actually, let me throw this idea around, and feel free to shoot holes in
> it. Can one still do a relatively cheap 1990s conversion ? Perhaps the
> real question is whether you really want to: no regen, not great power,
> poor range. If you do, ...
>
> I presume you can still get cheap DC motors and controllers. Of course,
> you can get lead-acid, but there might be another possibility. What
> about moderate sized backup power systems ? Since they are already
> designed to be stand alone, one doesn't have to trick them into working
> with a phantom car.
>
> Here are a few examples:
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Cloudenergy-Rechargeable-Lifetime-Overland-Off-Grid/dp/B0B9JWWXSY/ref=asc_df_B0B9JWWXSY
> 7.2kWh, 5kW output, 130 pounds, $1600
> (you could put in 3 of these, perhaps, for about 60 mile range)
>
> https://batteryevo.com/product/48v-husky-105ah-5-3-kwh/
> 5kWh, 5kW output, 100 pounds, $2000
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/145169131657?chn=ps&norover=1&mkrid=711-166974-028196-7&mkscid=101&itemid=145169131657&targetid=2275367127251&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033257&poi=&campaignid=21021646205&mkgroupid=168215069228&rlsatarget=pla-2275367127251&abcId=9381015&merchantid=5332630602&geoid=9033257&gad_source=1
> 5.1kWh, 2.1kW output, 100 pounds, $1000
>
> Peri
>
>
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "lektwik via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "lektwik" 
> Sent: 27-Apr-24 23:58:21
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] '91 BMW 318i conversion to electric
>
> >Howdy Folks
> >
> >It's been years since I posted here (ever since discussions of drag racing
> >were banned), but I do still read the EVDL on occasion and credit the
> folks
> >here with providing an initial crash course for me on EV technology.
> >
> >The conversion issue made me want to chime in. The days of inexpensive
> >lead-acid and DC motor conversions are long gone. I've been around this
> >industry for 25 years. It's a completely different animal now. There were
> >no factory EVs available then and folks were forced to accept extremely
> >limited range (good luck telling someone they can only go 50 miles max on
> a
> >charge now and that 50% of vehicle weight in lead batteries is required to
> >do it).
> >
> >IMHO, If you want to convert a modern car, your best bet by far is just to
> >get a factory made EV. You could buy a handful of Nissan Leafs by the time
> >you pay someone to do a modern vehicle conversion with decent power and
> >range. Just getting the onboard computerized systems of a modern vehicle
> to
> >play nice with a completely foreign drivetrain is a herculean task all by
> >itself. Plus you are pretty much tied to the person or shop doing the
> >conversion for maintenance or repair issues into the foreseeable future.
> >
> >In fact, there is little that's inexpensive or easy about it now compared
> >to then. The target market for conversions now is classic vehicles from
> >back in the days of ignition points and carburetors. Like a collector car
> >that a person would keep for decades.
> >
> >You need substantial bank to even consider having a nice conversion done
> >for you. A $100K+ price tag is not unusual, especially using brand new
> >components and including the cost of the donor vehicle. For that you could
> >likely find a Rivian, Lucid, or Tesla Plaid. Especially on the used
> market.
> >One positive aspect is that used EV components are now available from
> >wrecked EVs. We didn't have any of that back in the day. It's hard to beat
> >a Tesla rear drive setup.
> >
> >It's nice to see folks still involved here that were posting on the EVDL
> 25
> >years ago when I first got into EVs. I must say that some of those same
> >folks are recommending books on EV conversion that are like 25 years out
> of
> >date. I personally don't see this as being helpful to those new to EVs
> that
> >want to learn how modern ones operate or how to convert one, especially
> >with an abundance of free and modern info available on YouTube and other
> >online sources. Wanna learn how to set up an Orion BMS? There are videos
> on
> >that.
> >
> >Please remember that the days of 96 volt VW Rabbit lead slugs are long
> >gone. Though I've been predicting for years that unmolested examples of
> >those early clik-clak DC and lead-acid conversions are the future EV
> >collector's items. They are disappearing quickly.
> >
> >
> >Roy LeMeur
> >
> >On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 2:42 PM Harsha Godavari via EV  >
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/how-volvo-landed-cheap-chinese-ev-us-shores-trade-war-2024-04-2

Re: [EVDL] '91 BMW 318i conversion to electric

[Thos True via EV]

Chiming in here,
My Dad (known as Father Time) and I built several conversions for over a
decade (pre lithium). We rarely spent more than 5 or 10 thousand doing most
of them.
Bear in mind that we were careful about the condition of the donor vehicle.
We usually did the machining in house, and often bought or traded for
existing projects to cannibalize for the more pricey parts. On any
given day, you can find an EV project for sale, usually with a defective
battery pack for a very reasonable price.
Of course, the project needs to fit your basic needs, with a similar weight
and voltage class, but adapter plates are available (or can be made at a
machine shop), along with the battery boxes to fit the design needs of the
vehicle.
One of the cool truths of EV's is that the motor, controller and battery
pack are basically independent of each other (I realize that some AC
systems are more picky about matching the controller than others), so you
start with what you can afford and upgrade as the opportunities present
themselves. We changed battery systems several times during the racing
career of our Silver Bullet 280ZX from the late 1990's until retiring it in
2005. During that time we enjoyed the experience of setting 8 consecutive
world speed records, and inspiring the Nedra rule of participating in one
voltage class per event (we melted a battery post setting a record, and
kept reducing the voltage in 12V increments from 144V until Dave Cloud
stopped us from running in the 96V class, setting new records in each as we
went).
Naturally, if you need to hire the work done, it will be very costly. In
that case, you are probably better off buying a manufactured vehicle with a
warranty.
- My 2 Watt's worth,
-Tom True

On Thu, Apr 25, 2024, 1:27 PM EV List Lackey via EV 
wrote:

> On 25 Apr 2024 at 9:14, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
>
> > One common "old school" method was to bolt a DC motor to an old ICE
> > transmission with an adapter plate ... it's mechanically easier, but
> > you end up with a short range low-performance conversion.
>
> Exhibit B is the Solectria Force.  It was an early- to mid-1990s
> conversion
> of the Geo Metro (Suzuki Swift).  With regenerative braking from a high-
> efficiency AC induction drive, and a low-friction custom aluminum
> transaxle,
> it achieved better than 150 Wh/mile in city driving.
>
> But it wasn't exactly a shadetree conversion.  The folks who designed it
> had
> engineering degrees from MIT.
>
> Also, a Geo Metro and a BMW 3 are almost from different planets.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>  Finnegans Wake is the best example of modernism disappearing
>  up its own fundament.
>
> -- JG Ballard
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Re: [EVDL] 14/50 240V vs 6-50 (3 wire) receptacle for EV charge controllers

[Thos True via EV]

Hi All,
The 14-50 is the standard for 50 Amp use because many appliances utilize
the 120 volt option for display functions.
-Tom True

On Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 1:29 PM Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:

> Hi folks
> Not to stir up another firestorm again - but I was curious why a 14/50
> 240V socket was chosen for portable EVSE charge controllers when they
> *don’t* use the neutral wire?  The NEMA 6-50 sockets without a neutral
> would seem more appropriate but aren’t used that often and would need a
> 6-50 to 14/50 adapter.
> The Enphase (microinverters) solar ground mount arrays we traditionally
> install in our volunteer solar club tend to be about 100’ away from the
> house, so running an additional #6 neutral adds cost but of course required
> by code as we do for courtesy 120V 20A or 14/50 50A breakers in the remote
> combiner box (or sub panel breaker box at solar array).
> Best regards
> Mark
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] EV's not a green success.

[Thos True via EV]

I find it difficult to believe that we are once again being drawn into the
argument that the grid cannot support the demand for EV's.
Society has been in this situation several times since the early 1900's.
With each new electrical product's popularity (televisions, refrigerators,
air conditioners, hot tubs, washers and dryers, motorhomes, Mcmansions,
housing developments, fast food restaurants, factories, etc), the same
fearful cry was heard. Development of "the grid" has been ahead of demand
in the majority of markets,  as they are a business that wants to sell as
much of their products as possible. Even when the demand levels off,
utilities are continuously upgrading the equipment with more efficient
devices to maximize output utilizing the same foot print ( fenced in
facilities, usually).
Most vehicles use around the same amount of electricity per charge as
running a dryer for a couple of cycles (how many people think twice about
doing that?).
Just my 2 watts worth,
Tom True

On Sat, Nov 4, 2023, 5:32 PM EV@TucsonEV via EV  wrote:

> Well, once again, it looks like the thread has strayed from EV's into
> politics...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rush Dougherty
> TucsonEV
> 1014 E King St
> Tucson AZ 85719
> 520 240 7493
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
>
>
>
>   EV List Lackey wrote -
> > "To understand the Republican party, or the Democratic party, for that
> matter,
> it is
> > most efficient to look directly at the clients -- or as political
> scientist
> Thomas
> > Ferguson would call them, the 'major investors.'
> > On that level, the ideological contradictions are unimportant. Political
> parties do
> > function as mediating institutions, just not for voters."
> >
> > -- William Greider, "Who Will Tell the People"
>
> Well, once again, it looks like the thread has strayed from EV's into
> politics...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rush Dougherty
> TucsonEV
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1204-015 controler replace or repair?

[Thos True via EV]

Hi David,
Send an inquiry to Roderick @v intagegolfcartparts.com
He has over 25 years experience with these things!
-Tom

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 9:44 PM David Nelson via EV  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a 1993 Club Car 36V golf cart I'm trying to resurrect for a
> charitable organization. I hooked up some batteries to test it out and
> it worked for about a minute, then the contactor just clicked on then
> off immediately and nothing happens after that. Disconnecting the
> battery and reconnecting is the only way to get the contactor to
> "click" again. I've checked every microswitch, cleaned the throttle
> pot, cleaned the F-N-R mechanical switch contacts, verified that the
> contactor works properly when run independently. The series motor
> brushes and armature are in excellent shape, and runs fine. I finally
> tracked down the Curtis 1204 controller manual and went through the
> troubleshooting steps and the best I can determine is that the
> controller is not working. During testing today I noticed that the
> precharge resistor would get rather hot. Then the contactor quit
> clicking on then off like it used to and the resistor no longer would
> get warm. Obviously I'm talking about when the contactor was open.
> Voltage to the inputs on the controller were normal but there was
> never any voltage or current on the output.
>
> It appears that I need to replace or repair the controller. If it were
> my golf cart, I'd just buy a $150-$200 clone and call it good but I
> don't want it quitting on someone else. Would I be best to ship it to
> Curtis or someone like cloudelectric.com to be rebuilt? I haven't
> found any used or new Curtis 1204 controllers available.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> David D. Nelson
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Re: [EVDL] Tires

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Lee,
An option that might be worth considering would be to check wrecking yards
for 14' or 15" wheels with the same bolt pattern. i have done this in the
past with Subaru and Geo Metro projects. Discount Tire has an online
conversion chart that is helpful. Their prices and brand selection aren't
bad either.
-Tom True

On Wed, Jun 21, 2023 at 4:06 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> A recent comment reminded me: I need new tires for my Lectric Leopard
> (Renault LeCar) EV. Stock size is 145/80R13, but 155/80R13 also fit. The
> rims are 4.5" wide, so a wide profile tire isn't a good fit.
>
> I'm finding it difficult to find any 13" tires, let alone low rolling
> resistance ones. Yet I know there are small EVs and other cars that have
> used them. Does anyone know of any sources?
>
> Lee
>
> --
> Whatever the problem, be part of the solution. Don’t just sit
> around raising questions and pointing out obstacles. -- Tina Fey
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
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>

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Re: [EVDL] battery heaters

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Nathan,

Back in the days of lead-acid, we used water bed heaters under the
batteries to get them to an optimal temp for charging and discharging
(about 100 degrees F). I'm thinking that you are looking to keep your pack
more in the area of 50 degrees, but I expect that the same method would
work for you.

-Tom

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 4:27 PM nathan christiansn via EV 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I live in northern utah, and it can get fairly cold here in the
> winter(close to 20 fahrenheit in the night)
>
> I am using nissan leaf batteries in my Geo Metro EV conversion. The leaf
> batteries, as with most other lithium batteries, is not supposed to be
> charged below 32 degrees fahrenheit.
>
> I am worried that I will not be able to charge my EV during the winter
> because of the cold outside temperatures. I also do not currently have
> access to a heated garage.
>
> I am considering adding a battery heater. I was thinking of attaching one
> of those silicone heating pads that are used as ICE block heaters to
> the bottom of my 2 steel battery boxes, but I was wondering if anyone had
> any better ideas?
>
> Nathan
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Re: [EVDL] "Green Envy" is off to Lake Gairner, South Australia!

[Thos True via EV]

That looks like a hell of an adventure! Best of luck, and may all of your
preparations make for yet another successful event.
-Tom True

On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 6:14 AM Pestka Dennis via EV 
wrote:

> Good Luck and Safe Travels to Bill and Eva !
>
> Dennis and Marcy Pestka
> 
> From: EV  on behalf of Bill Dube via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 10:01 PM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org 
> Cc: Bill Dube 
> Subject: [EVDL] "Green Envy" is off to Lake Gairner, South Australia!
>
> The Green Envy is the ~1000 HP "version 2.0" of the ~400 HP KillaJoule
> purpose built electric land speed streamliner motorcycle.
>
> Our container packed with the Green Envy and its support equipment left
> this morning from our shop in Auckland and is headed to the port to
> travel by sea to Adelaide and then by land to Lake Gairdner in
> Australia for the annual DLRA speed trials.
>
> We started the fabrication of the Green Envy just 6 months ago. This may
> be a record in itself. Eva and I have worked tirelessly for much longer
> than this to make this happen.
>
> Here is a link to the web page where you can find general information
> about the KillaJoule and now the Green Envy:
>
> http://greenenvyracing.com/
>
> You can (if you wish) visit Eva's FaceBook page to see day to day
> progress on the built, etc. at:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/EvaHakanssonRacing
>
> (No need to join FB. Just ignore the "click to sign up" pop up. Enjoy
> lurking without joining FB.)
>
> Looking forward!
>
> Bill & Eva
>
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] EVfire (dated 20170825 Lake_Forest-CA): Tesla on fire ... (v)

[Thos True via EV]

Hello Bruce and all,

I was thinking that another tactic to counter the publicity of the EV fires
is to share data about vehicle fires in general, and compare that with fire
data of electric vehicles. It might start with a table like this one from
the NFPA (the same folks that prove the code books for our electrical
codes).
Just a thought...

-Tom True


   1. News & Research 
   2. Data, research, and tools
   
   3. ARCHIVED
   
   4. Fire statistics
   

   5. Vehicles
   

   6. Highway vehicle fires by year

Highway vehicle fires




*Direct Property Damage(in Billions)*

*Year*

*Fires*


*CivilianDeaths*


*CivilianInjuries*

*As Reported*

*In 2015 Dollars*

1980

456,000

650

2,850

$0.5

$1.3

1981

453,000

770

2,900

$0.5

$1.3

1982

433,000

575

3,250

$0.5

$1.3

1983

435,500

670

3,400

$0.6

$1.4

1984

437,000

530

3,250

$0.6

$1.4

1985

437,000

770

3,250

$0.7

$1.5

1986

438,000

665

2,850

$0.7

$1.5

1987

451,000

755

2,900

$0.7

$1.5

1988

459,000

800

2,750

$0.8

$1.6

1989

415,500

560

2,750

$0.8

$1.5

1990

415,000

645

3,025

$0.8

$1.5

1991

406,500

530

2,675

$0.8

$1.4

1992

385,500

665

2,750

$0.8

$1.4

1993

402,000

540

2,400

$0.9

$1.4

1994

402,000

555

2,325

$1.0

$1.5

1995

386,000

490

2,275

$1.0

$1.6

1996

395,000

550

2,075

$1.1

$1.7

1997

377,000

450

1,950

$1.1

$1.6

1998

358,500

545

2,050

$1.1

$1.6

1999

345,000

450

1,600

$1.1

$1.6

2000

325,000

450

1,325

$1.2

$1.6

2001

327,000

470

1,750

$1.3

$1.7

2002

307,000

540

1,700

$1.2

$1.6

2003

286,000

455

1,400

$1.1

$1.4

2004

266,500

520

1,300

$1.0

$1.2

2005

259,000

500

1,450

$1.0

$1.3

2006

250,000

445

1,075

$1.0

$1.2

2007

227,500

365

1,500

$1.1

$1.2

2008

207,000

350

850

$1.2

$1.3

2009

190,500

260

1,455

$1.0

$1.2

2010

184,500

285

1,440

$1.0

$1.1

2011

187,500

270

1,020

$1.0

$1.1

2012

172,500

300

800

$1.3

$1.1
 2013   164,000300   925$1.1
$1.1
 2014   167,500310   1,275$1.1
$1.1
 2015   174,000445   1,550$1.2
$1.2

Highway vehicles include any vehicle designed to operate normally on
highways, such as automobiles, motorcycles, buses, trucks, and trailers,
but not manufactured homes on foundations.

Direct property damage figures do not include indirect losses, like
business interruption.
Inflation adjustment to 2015 dollars is done using the consumer price index.

Source: *Fire Loss in the United States*

* 2015*, Hylton J. G. Haynes, NFPA, September 2016 and previous reports in
the series.

*Updated 9/16*

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 4:25 AM brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
> [dated]
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Uncontrolled-downhill-Tesla-crashed-ignited-elderly-couple-s-garage-home-red-tagged4-8mo-tp4687809.html
> Uncontrolled downhill Tesla crashed& ignited elderly couple's garage> home
> red tagged4 8mo
> Tesla Crashes Into Lake Forest Home, Igniting Fire
> Aug 26, 2017 ... A Tesla slammed into a Lake Forest home sparking a
> destructive house fire ...
> Aug 27, 2017
> ...
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=tesla+fire+Lake+Forest&days=0
> evdl archive search
>
>
> [ref
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tesla-on-fire-on-youtube-tp4692706.html
> (Rush's post)
> ]
>
> [video  dated
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eFM9JJMH_0
> Tesla Model X Fire (Lake Forest, California)
> Real World Police  Dec 4, 2018
> [The title of this video initially identified the vehicle a a Tesla Model
> S.
> I have since been informed that it is a Model X.]
>
> In this video we take a  brief foray into the toasty side of things.
>
> At 6:15 pm on August 25th, 2017 a man in his mid-30s driving a Tesla Model
> X
> lost control of his car and crashed into the garage of a single-family,
> single story home, taking out a load-bearing beam and starting a raging
> fire.
>
> Approximately 45 minutes to an hour after the initial knockdown and removal
> of the vehicle firefighters noticed the vehicle beginning to off-gas in a
> distinct, heavy, manner. A fog-like smoke was emitting from the car. At
> first firefighters believed that it had the look of a chemical fire, but
> when the Tesla began to emit an orange, jet-like flame something new was
> clearly at play.
>
> The Tesla ha

Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Thos True via EV]

This isn't just a Leaf or Prius issue. This is the standard for any
programmable key/ key fob. Several people over the past few years,  myself
included, have misplace their key/ fob on a newer vehicle only to find that
the fob costs $100 plus, and the programming is about $200, if you are
lucky. In many cases, the item is dealer only, requiring a tow to get it to
their facility (even more $$$!). Gone are the days of a simple cut key
(even for some newer homes it seems).
Gotta love progress!
-Tom True

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 6:43 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> your lucky.  Its $1200 for a prius fob if you have no key left.
> Otherwise it is $250 for the key plus $50 programming I think.
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 5:46 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  >
> wrote:
>
> > Couldn't I just get any Nissan fob? Is anyone in the Bay area capable of
> > programing fobs for less than hundred bucks? My son lost our key.
> Lawrence
> > Rhodes
> > -- next part --
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> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> > group/NEDRA)
> >
> >
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20180302

[Thos True via EV]

Bruce,

I am very happy to see that you are feeling better. You seem to have a ton
of energy, as shown by the sheer volume of recent posts.
Glad that you are back!

-Tom True

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:27 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
> nabble.com/EVLN-diy-Electric-Car-Conversion-Kit-tp4689576.html
> EVLN: diy Electric Car Conversion Kit
> 2018-02-19  Check The Driving Radius Before Buying The Kit
> If you are interested in electric car conversion kits, they are available
> from vendors to use in a do-it-yourself form. You should research the best
> types of cars suited for the electric car conversion kit as well as the
> type
> of car to meet your …
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
> nabble.com/EVLN-10k-BMW-EV-discount-for-PG-E-utility-
> customers-tp4689577.html
> EVLN: $10k BMW EV discount for PG&E utility customers
> March 1, 2018  BMW may be angling for a bigger slice of the nation's
> largest
> electric vehicle market — California — and aiming at some of the same
> drivers courted by Tesla. The German automaker is offering a $10,000
> discount on its i3 electric car for customers of Pacific Gas and Electric
> Co. through May 31. Buyers need only show their ...
> https://s.hdnux.com/photos/71/65/22/15160469/3/920x1240.jpg
>
>
> +
> https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115535_evgo-
> simplifies-cuts-electric-car-fast-charging-prices-nationwideEVgo
> simplifies, cuts electric-car fast charging prices nationwide
> Mar 1, 2018  Over the next three years, numerous long-range electric cars
> will come to market at prices below $40,000. That will expand the pool of
> potential buyers to those interested in plug-in vehicles but unwilling to
> consider one rated at less than 200 miles. Those new owners will learn the
> DC fast charging along highways to enable
> ...e&usg=AOvVaw2tAMRl0c_ISvNb98o8dMQO
>
>
> https://www.renewableenergymagazine.com/electric_hybrid_vehicles/
> fastned-announces-new-generation-of-fast-charging-20180301
> Fastned announces new generation of fast charging stations
> It also has a higher clearance, so it is easily visible to electric car
> drivers and can accommodate larger EVs. “I am very proud of our new
> station”
> said Fastned’s Co …
>
>
> http://thenewswheel.com/california-currently-testing-
> out-pre-approved-electric-car-rebate/
> California Currently Testing Out Pre-Approved Electric Car Rebate
> February 18, 2018  Back in May 2017, California announced that it would
> soon
> start testing out an electric car rebate that would be applied to a
> vehicle's price tag during the point of purchase. As of January 30th, San
> Diego has officially launched the new rebate, as John Voelcker with Green
> Car Reports articulated. This new type of rebate is ...
>
>
> https://electriccarsreport.com/2018/02/electric-explorer-
> african-challenge-first-ev-expedition-across-africa/
> Electric Explorer African Challenge – the first EV expedition across Africa
> 2018/02/23  The Electric Explorer African Challenge 2018, the first-ever
> electric vehicle …
>
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.
> nabble.com/EVent-EVs-2018-Concours-d-Elegance-Amelia-Is-
> FL-3-09-10-tp4689572.html
> EVent: EVs @2018 Concours d'Elegance Amelia_Is-FL 3/09-10
> 20180304  Amelia will also display electric cars, some dating back to the
> infancy of automobiles, while displaying the Corvette-based electric
> Genovation Cars GXE with 800-horsepower electric drivetrain. That coincides
> with the seminar entitled, “WATTS NEXT? Design Challenges of the Electric
> Car” at 3 p.m. ...
> http://www.jacksonville.com/storyimage/LK/20180304/NEWS/
> 180308956/EP/1/7/EP-180308956.jpg
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>


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Re: [EVDL] EVnewswire status: heart, again

[Thos True via EV]

Bruce,

Keep up the good fight, and I hope that you get the heart back on track
soon.
Charge on!

-Tom True

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:30 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> afib heart problems, again ...
>
> I felt awful last night. my blood pressure meter kept giving odd readings
> except that my heart rate is twice what it normally is.
>
> This afib high heart rate has happened before (the heart is not pumping the
> right way= low energy, +more). The last time the Dr's had to do an
> Electrical Cardioversion (they kill you and then, hopefully, bring you
> back)
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Electrical+Cardioversion
>
> I have a VA Hospital appt. on Tues 27th to get started at that TX facility
> I
> am switching to (then this happened, oh-boy). I am going to move my
> stuff/empty-out my rented room, to my tx ice and take along my hospital bag
> (encase of a long hospital stay). I am hoping my 4G tether holds out during
> my long observation period laying on a gurney connected with tubes and
> sensors with monitor beeps and nurse's chatter (as if no one else can
> hear).
>
> So, EV news posts may be delayed.
> I hope to post the items I have queued later (I am in training for a 10hr
> fasting period on Tuesday starting at 1am, for an 11am lab blood draw).
>
> I have better take a nap now, to regain some energy :-zzz
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>


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merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

[Thos True via EV]

Mark,

Just curious what time of year the outages have been occurring at. If it is
during the summer, I would expect that the cause has more to do with a
large use of hvac units, not televisions or evse's. If during winter, then
it probably has to do with unexpected increase in heating demands. How fast
is the housing unit growth in the neighborhood? The utility may not be
increasing the power in ratio to the # of units coming online.

-Tom

On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 6:20 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> Dubious or not, our local infrastructure couldn't handle the change in
> technology coupled with numbers of units in each household. Try telling
> those who suffered frequent outages that they were imagining it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 2, 2018, at 5:09 PM, Steve Condie via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > This statement, as written, is dubious.  All flat screen TV's except
> plasma
> > use less electricity than the older CRT sets did - a 50" LED set uses
> less
> > electricity than a 30" CRT.  Plasma is comparable to CRT, but plasma TVs
> > never really had a lot of market share, even in their brief heyday.
> What's
> > more, the total energy usage by TV sets is minimal compared to HVAC,
> > refrigeration, cooktops, etc.  I think someone's leg was being pulled.
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 11:42 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You paint too broad a brush.
> >>
> >> There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from
> the
> >> grid and increased useage.
> >>
> >> As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had
> >> serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for
> those
> >> loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
> >> Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  Our
> >> City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
> increased to
> >> handle the loads.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Peri & All,
> >>>
> >>> I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
> >> being
> >>> pushed by mainstream media.
> >>> The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
> >> since
> >>> the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
> >> utilities
> >>> seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
> >>> Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
> >>> refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer,
> followed
> >>> by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze,
> followed
> >>> by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
> >>> noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
> >>> stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
> >> device
> >>> at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended
> periods
> >>> of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
> >>> The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush
> current
> >>> events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
> >>> according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
> >>> amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
> >>>
> >>> Tom True
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really
> think
> >>>> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
> >> But
> >>>> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
> trucking?
> >>>> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What
> >> about
> >>>> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> >>>> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV,
> our
> >>>> electricity usage is below the national average. Ev

Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

[Thos True via EV]

I have been a commercial electrician for over 20 years now, and have been
around several power sub stations. One thing that you quickly realize at
these sites is a stringent maintenance schedule, which typically recognizes
and implements the most efficient and proactive upgrades available. Maximum
efficiency in smallest footprint equals more income in the long run. This
cost is built into their operating budgets.
Doing this without drawing undue attention is generally in their best
interest, as most people typically don't pay any attention until it
disrupts their plans with an unexpected failure.

-Tom True


On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 5:17 AM, Michael Ross via EV 
wrote:

> " Our City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity
> increased to handle the loads."
>
> You might say that the electric utilities are crashing the grid by not
> recognizing the need to respond to change.  EV use will grow, but not too
> quickly - in the present when the electric grid should be trying to keep
> pace it is not, because of intransigence and the influence of established
> interests.
>
> Short term, stockholders may see better returns, but long term building now
> would pay off even better. That is not how the market and finance seems to
> work these days. Instead it is let's bundle some paper and charge some
> fees; not let's rebuild, reinforce and improve infrastructure.
>
> BentMIke
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&;
> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&;
> utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 2:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
> wrote:
>
> > You paint too broad a brush.
> >
> > There have been *serious* problems as new technologies have drawn from
> the
> > grid and increased useage.
> >
> > As plasma and other big screen TVs got big, various parts of my city had
> > serious issues with power outages, as the system wasn't designed for
> those
> > loads. And these weren't areas that had been there for 100 years.
> > Relatively new housing developments had continuing power problems.  Our
> > City Council had to really squeeze the utility to get capacity increased
> to
> > handle the loads.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jan 1, 2018, at 7:33 PM, Thos True via EV 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Peri & All,
> > >
> > > I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was
> > being
> > > pushed by mainstream media.
> > > The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times
> > since
> > > the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the
> > utilities
> > > seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
> > > Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
> > > refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer,
> followed
> > > by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze,
> followed
> > > by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
> > > noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
> > > stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the
> > device
> > > at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended
> periods
> > > of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
> > > The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush
> current
> > > events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
> > > according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
> > > amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.
> > >
> > > Tom True
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really
> think
> > >> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted.
> > But
> > >> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul
> trucking?
> > >> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What
> > about
> > >> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
> > >>
> > >> Personally, our EV boosted our ele

Re: [EVDL] Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid

[Thos True via EV]

Peri & All,

I recall addressing this fear about a decade ago when it the fear was being
pushed by mainstream media.
The reality is no different than events that have occurred many times since
the inception of the electrical grid. It is interesting that the utilities
seem to do their best to avoid this conversation.
Some that we might recall were the fears about every house having a
refrigerator and washing machine, then it was the clothes dryer, followed
by microwave ovens & hand held appliances and the hot tub craze, followed
by the air conditioner installations. The air conditioners do have a
noticeable effect on the grid due to a few factors (1. Grid already
stressed due to over heating. 2. Large numbers in a region using the device
at the same time (large, continuous inrush currents). 3. Extended periods
of load for each device (in excess of 4 hours each).)
The previous example share the relatively short, staggered inrush current
events, followed by lower power demands, which are barely noticeable,
according to the utilities themselves, since most L2 units use the same
amount of power per use as the average clothes dryer.

Tom True



On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> I think this article raises a good question, though I don't really think
> it answers it. Currently, yes, the grid isn't significantly impacted. But
> what about if we had 100% EVs. What about local and long haul trucking?
> What about other ICE powered equipment, e.g. earth movers, etc.? What about
> generation capacity as well as distribution capacity?
>
> Personally, our EV boosted our electricity consumption by about 10%. I
> don't know how that number compares in general as, even with our EV, our
> electricity usage is below the national average. Even so, that's only
> accounting for residential EVs. Commercial and industrial electricity usage
> is much higher than residential. Is that enough to coincidentally assume a
> 10% figure for non residential EV charging? If this pans out to be
> reasonably true, it would seem that EVs will not, long term, cause a
> significant drain on our generation capacity, if any at all (considering
> time of use).
>
> For distribution, yes, we clearly can't have everyone charging their EVs
> at 5:30pm.  But, as we move more and more to renewables, we'll need grid
> storage anyway and, using the "10% rule", EVs won't be a significant
> factor. The significant factor will be how to get Nevada solar to the
> cloudy Pacific NW or to get Texas wind to sticky South Carolina. And how to
> store several days worth to even out nature's effects.
>
> Does anyone have real numbers of the effects of 100% EVs on generation and
> distribution?
>
> Peri
>
> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
> ot-crashing-grid
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "brucedp5" 
> Sent: 30-Dec-17 10:08:53 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20171226
>
>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-Tesla-3-EV-handling-snow-covered-rutted-off-road-
>> track-on-standard-tires-v-tp4689040.html
>> EVLN: Tesla-3 EV handling snow-covered rutted off-road track on standard
>> tires (v)
>> The current versions of Tesla's flagship vehicles control power to all
>> four
>> wheels through dual independently operated electric motors, providing
>> unparalleled traction in even the worst of winter conditions. Short of
>> driving your Tesla through a snow-covered off-road track with deep, muddy
>> ruts, Model S and Model X's ...
>>
>> +
>> https://www.teslarati.com/verne-troyer-tesla-model-s-kids-unboxing-video/
>> Verne Troyer just got a Tesla Model S for Kids and says it’s a beast
>> December 28, 2017  Not long after, Troyer began his “unboxing” of the
>> Model
>> S for Kids, where he gave a surprisingly complete rundown of the miniature
>> vehicle's features. During the course of the video, Troyer showed off the
>> miniature car's frunk, Tesla-branded charger, and its battery pack. The
>> Austin Powers star also took ...
>> https://youtu.be/6K_nTNvyTtE
>>
>> https://www.nrdc.org/experts/noah-garcia/good-news-evs-are-n
>> ot-crashing-grid
>> Good News: EVs Are Not Crashing the Grid
>> Dec 27, 2017  First, despite fears that EVs would overwhelm the existing
>> electric grid infrastructure, only a very minor fraction of them—0.19
>> percent—have actually necessitated distribution system or service line
>> upgrades. Moreover, this data point has translated to relatively low
>> levels
>> of EV-related spending on grid maintenance: of the $5 ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discus

Re: [EVDL] OMG Tesla semi with a suprise in the trailer.

[Thos True via EV]

Did anybody else notice the dually pickup that was also briefly shown?
I had a diesel dually that I used for hauling the vehicles to events for
several years, and really enjoyed the stability. Especially when compared
to a standard pick up or even the beefed up 3/4 ton Suburban that we also
used for the trailers.

On Sat, Nov 18, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Bill Collins via EV 
wrote:

> I have seen people pulling a big 5th wheel camping trailer with a semi
> tractor. They said it was much more stable than the pick up truck they
> towed with previously.
> ___
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Bigfoot #20 monster Electric-truck in epic Mad Max (eon.com pr) race (v)

[Thos True via EV]

Makes sense... he was present at at least a couple of the "what if?"
sessions.

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Rod Hower via EV 
wrote:

> Now I know what Dennis Berube is doing in his retirement!  It shows him as
> the designer of the Monster Truck!
>
>
> On Saturday, November 11, 2017 12:25 PM, Thos True via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
>
>  Very impressive array! I remember Rich Rudman and I fantasizing about
> doing
> a monster truck back in the late '90sGreat to see things moving along
> this path.
>
> -Tom True
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, brucedp5 via EV 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > % ... Bigfoot #20 monster e-truck designed and built by Dennis Berube
> ... %
> >
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4851989/the-worlds-
> > first-all-electric-monster-truck-and-200mph-plug-in-
> > superbike-in-epic-mad-max-race-to-promote-e-ons-tesla-
> > beating-charging-points/
> > The world’s first all-electric monster truck and 200mph plug-in superbike
> > in
> > epic Mad Max race to promote E.ON’s Tesla-beating charging points
> > 6th November 2017  Dan Elsom
> >
> > [video  flash
> >
> >
> > images
> > https://cf-images.eu-west-1.prod.boltdns.net/v1/static/
> > 5067014667001/a747d832-d5b9-40dd-abc8-236cd7967a78/
> > 31fd79de-1217-4487-8616-6d96ad194133/1280x720/match/image.jpg
> >
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/
> > bigfoot-20-e1509978680442.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> > The Bigfoot #20 monster truck is the first of its kind to use
> all-electric
> > power
> >
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/raesr-
> > tachyon-speed-2.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> > The Raesr hypercar has serious acceleration power
> >
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/
> > lightning-motorcyces-ls-218-2.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> > Lightning Motorcycles' LS 218 bike can reach a staggering top speed of
> > 218mph
> >
> > https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/mad-
> > max.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> > E-On  Mad Max style convoy raced across the desert on pure battery power
> > ]
> >
> > If you thought electric vehicles lacked power, think again. This epic
> > convoy
> > of supercharged EVs prove that plug-in motors have the grunt to battle it
> > out with the rest of the motoring world
> >
> > IF you think electric cars don't have the same excitement as regular high
> > octane motors - then just take a look at this.
> >
> > Monster trucks, hypercars and lightning fast superbikes all feature in a
> > thrilling new Mad Max-style video.
> >
> > The advert was created as part of E.ON's "Freedom is Electric" project
> > that'll create a network of Tesla-beating super chargers.
> >
> > The footage shows the world's first fully electric monster truck battling
> > it
> > out in a desert race with a 200mph electric bike and a host of other
> > powerful plug-ins.
> >
> > The EV convoy, which also includes a 1,250bhp hypercar, is shown carving
> > along the desert track, leaving an empty petrol station in its wake.
> >
> > Undoubtedly the most impressive vehicle in the mix, the Bigfoot #20
> monster
> > truck is the only one of its kind, powered by 30 batteries delivering an
> > incredible 360 volts.
> >
> > And generating 800lb-ft of torque despite its 11,000lbs of mass, it
> > certainly has the grunt to compete in the monster truck world.
> >
> > Just as impressive are the capabilities of the featured Lightning
> > Motorcycles LS 218 and Raesr hypercar.
> >
> > With a top speed of 218mph and range of 100 miles, it is no surprise the
> > plug-in two-wheeler has already broken four land speed records.
> >
> > The Raesr Tachyon Speed on the other hand utilises six direct drive
> motors
> > to generate 1,250bhp, giving it the power to travel from 0-120mph in less
> > than seven seconds.
> > Mad Max style convoy raced across the desert on pure battery power
> >
> > Alongside the advert, E.ON announced it will introduce fast-charging
> > technology in up to 10,000 locations across Europe by 2020.
> >
> > More powerful than Tesla's 120kW outlets, the ultra-fast charging network
> > offers 150 kW of power with an upgrade option to 350 kW.
> >
> > That means it can charge a 400 kilometre (248 miles) battery to full in
> > less
> > than 30 minutes.
> >
> > Anthony Ainsworth, global head of marketing at E

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Bigfoot #20 monster Electric-truck in epic Mad Max (eon.com pr) race (v)

[Thos True via EV]

Very impressive array! I remember Rich Rudman and I fantasizing about doing
a monster truck back in the late '90sGreat to see things moving along
this path.

-Tom True


On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 1:54 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> % ... Bigfoot #20 monster e-truck designed and built by Dennis Berube ... %
>
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4851989/the-worlds-
> first-all-electric-monster-truck-and-200mph-plug-in-
> superbike-in-epic-mad-max-race-to-promote-e-ons-tesla-
> beating-charging-points/
> The world’s first all-electric monster truck and 200mph plug-in superbike
> in
> epic Mad Max race to promote E.ON’s Tesla-beating charging points
> 6th November 2017  Dan Elsom
>
> [video  flash
>
>
> images
> https://cf-images.eu-west-1.prod.boltdns.net/v1/static/
> 5067014667001/a747d832-d5b9-40dd-abc8-236cd7967a78/
> 31fd79de-1217-4487-8616-6d96ad194133/1280x720/match/image.jpg
>
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/
> bigfoot-20-e1509978680442.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> The Bigfoot #20 monster truck is the first of its kind to use all-electric
> power
>
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/raesr-
> tachyon-speed-2.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> The Raesr hypercar has serious acceleration power
>
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/
> lightning-motorcyces-ls-218-2.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> Lightning Motorcycles' LS 218 bike can reach a staggering top speed of
> 218mph
>
> https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/mad-
> max.jpg?strip=all&w=960
> E-On  Mad Max style convoy raced across the desert on pure battery power
> ]
>
> If you thought electric vehicles lacked power, think again. This epic
> convoy
> of supercharged EVs prove that plug-in motors have the grunt to battle it
> out with the rest of the motoring world
>
> IF you think electric cars don't have the same excitement as regular high
> octane motors - then just take a look at this.
>
> Monster trucks, hypercars and lightning fast superbikes all feature in a
> thrilling new Mad Max-style video.
>
> The advert was created as part of E.ON's "Freedom is Electric" project
> that'll create a network of Tesla-beating super chargers.
>
> The footage shows the world's first fully electric monster truck battling
> it
> out in a desert race with a 200mph electric bike and a host of other
> powerful plug-ins.
>
> The EV convoy, which also includes a 1,250bhp hypercar, is shown carving
> along the desert track, leaving an empty petrol station in its wake.
>
> Undoubtedly the most impressive vehicle in the mix, the Bigfoot #20 monster
> truck is the only one of its kind, powered by 30 batteries delivering an
> incredible 360 volts.
>
> And generating 800lb-ft of torque despite its 11,000lbs of mass, it
> certainly has the grunt to compete in the monster truck world.
>
> Just as impressive are the capabilities of the featured Lightning
> Motorcycles LS 218 and Raesr hypercar.
>
> With a top speed of 218mph and range of 100 miles, it is no surprise the
> plug-in two-wheeler has already broken four land speed records.
>
> The Raesr Tachyon Speed on the other hand utilises six direct drive motors
> to generate 1,250bhp, giving it the power to travel from 0-120mph in less
> than seven seconds.
> Mad Max style convoy raced across the desert on pure battery power
>
> Alongside the advert, E.ON announced it will introduce fast-charging
> technology in up to 10,000 locations across Europe by 2020.
>
> More powerful than Tesla's 120kW outlets, the ultra-fast charging network
> offers 150 kW of power with an upgrade option to 350 kW.
>
> That means it can charge a 400 kilometre (248 miles) battery to full in
> less
> than 30 minutes.
>
> Anthony Ainsworth, global head of marketing at E.ON, said: "By bringing
> together these amazing vehicles and their equally passionate and inspiring
> owners we wanted to help people to reconsider what they think they know
> about electric vehicles, how they view energy and what they think about
> E.ON
> and its moves to be a force for change in energy.
> The high-powered electric vehicles by the numbers
>
> Bigfoot #20 monster truck:
>
> Powered by 30 batteries
> Delivers 360 volts of power
> 11,000lbs weight
> 800lb-ft of torque
>
> Shelby Cobra EV conversion:
>
> Powered by 96 lithium-ion batteries
> 100-mile range
> 375kW power output
> 0-60mph takes about three seconds
>
> Lightning Motorcycles LS 218
>
> Won Pike's Peak Hill Climb
> 218mph top speed
> 100-mile range
> Four land speed records
>
> Raesr Tachyon Speed hypercar
>
> 6 direct drive motors
> 1,250hp
> Can do 0-120mph in under 7 seconds
>
> "Our aim is clear, to remove the perceived barriers of electric vehicles to
> really help improve the electric future for our customers.
>
> "We are doing this by developing a growing network of charging points
> throughout Europe; whether at home, at work or on the go, from the city to
> the mountains.
>
> "We are investing in 

Re: [EVDL] 318 miles on a Chevy Bolt 150 miles on a Leaf..how is this possible?

[Thos True via EV]

On a 75 degree day in 2012, I drove our 2011 Leaf 127 miles with 30 miles
showing on the available range, (Of course, I also drove it at 26 degrees
on a winter morning and had 26 miles of range showing after driving 18
miles (with a lot of hills)).

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> I have personally driven a 24kw Leaf 90 miles and had 20% charge left.  I
> have driven my 30 kw leaf over a hundred miles and using the trip odometer
> and remaining range showed 150 miles as a possibility.  A friend from San
> Diego told me he went 318 miles...so how is this possible?  Lawrence Rhodes
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> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?

[Thos True via EV]

As much as I  want to hear more positive news about new and exciting ideas
about increasing efficiency and reducing our impact on the planet,  it
pains me to continue to waste time and energy on technologies that have
been been debunked exhaustively over and over again.
Gotta give the old boys points for tenacity though

-Tom

On Feb 16, 2017 9:51 AM, "Cor van de Water via EV" 
wrote:

> Before we get too deep into the fantasy world of
> how-to-get-new-investors for cases where the science is too good to be
> true (literally) and thus you need inexperienced investors and slick
> publications with big difficult sounding words all the while solving
> non-existent problems, to focus away from the real problem that you are
> not solving Here is a discussion on TeslaMotorsClub about the car
> and the person.
> I could give you a piece of my mind about the technology and claims as I
> found them on their website, but I am not going to bother to spill more
> words on this apparent fraudster.
>
> https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/nanoflowcell-quant-quantino.2823
> 9/
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> via EV
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 7:47 AM
> To: Matthew Quitter; Electric Vehicle DiscussionList
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
>
> I'm skeptical. At 48 volts, you would either need lots of systems
> working in parallel, each with their own motor or you would need cables
> the size of a bench press world champion's arms. The voltage that
> various EV manufacturers choose has nothing to do with the source of
> electricity (it has everything to do with the losses due to high
> current), so you have to figure that they aren't telling the complete
> story.
>
> They don't mention anything about sitting on a stack of hydrogen tanks
> or where the hydrogen comes from, either.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Matthew Quitter via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc:
> Sent: 16-Feb-17 7:36:29 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Any truth in these claims?
>
> >Found on social media today... sounds somewhat fantastic in both senses
>
> >of
> >the word.
> >
> >Headline:
> >300 km/h in The World's First Electric Sports Car with 48 V Low-Voltage
> >Flow Cell Drive
> >
> >First para:
> >It took a long time. The development team at nanoFlowcell Holdings had
> >worked for several years to make fuel cells directly controllable.
> >Having
> >finally succeeded in achieving direct variable control of a fuel cell
> >in
> >October 2016, the company now wants to demonstrate the potential of
> >direct
> >fuel cell drive and has built a true eye-catcher in the shape of the
> >world's fastest eco sports car. The QUANT 48VOLT is the prototype of a
> >new
> >generation of electric vehicles. It is equipped with what is currently
> >the
> >safest, most powerful, environmentally compatible and economical drive
> >system for electric vehicles that could be built in series production,
> >and
> >provides a view of our future mobility.
> >
> >http://emagazine.nanoflowcell.com/technology/300-kmh-in-the-worlds-firs
> t-electric-sports-car-with-48-v-low-voltage-flow-cell-drive/
> >
> >
> >07966 806 727
> >-- next part --
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> >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
> >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
>
> ___
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>
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> group/NEDRA)
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Interesting article from 1967.

[Thos True via EV]

Larry,

Great find! I remember finding the Popular Mechanics article about the
Corvolt (1967, if I recall). Of course as soon as the issue came out, GM
scuttled the project. I can't help but wonder where we would be if they
hadn't got in their own way.

-Tom

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> >Will the 'Lectrics Revolutionize Drag Racing?  - By Mike Doherty   [Drag
> Racing Magazine | April 1967]
> >The five-second quarter-mile run is a certainty if racers are quick to
> discard the blown fuelers! That's right - the sharpies will be riding
> full-size "slot cars" before long. No noise, no smoke.
>
> >Electric dragsters boast so many advantages over the conventional
> Chrysler type that the top innovators among us will soon lead the field in
> Top Eliminator competition.
> >Electric rails will have perfect distribution (so no wheelies), will not
> smoke the tires, will not captivate the crowds with deafening evidence of
> power. But the clocks will prove the fuelers obsolete as the "lectrics
> zzzip to five-second times.
> >A pipedream you say? The Big Three automakers are investing millions on
> the premise that electrics are the answer. The U. S. Government is working
> on legislation supporting electrics. California Department of Public Health
> officer Frank Stead has declared, "It is clearly evident that between now
> and 1980 the gasoline-powered engine must be phased out and replaced with
> an electric power package..."
> >Ford, General Motors, and Chrysler, as well as a dozen storage battery
> firms both here and abroad, have been developing electric systems to power
> automobiles since the 1950s. Yet electric research was just that - research
> - until recently when a combination of increasing smog problems and
> governmental control of the industry put new spirit into the competition.
> The lids are now off the factory electric car development budgets, and
> enthusiastic response to the debut of the first prototypes has supplied
> encouragement.
> Ford was the first among manufacturers to announce the development of a
> feasible electric battery power system, followed closely by General Motors'
> revelation of its Electrovair II. Both firms have operating prototypes on
> their test grounds, and are racing for refinement to a salable state.
> Chrysler is studying electrics, and a number of auto suppliers such as the
> Electric Storage Battery Co., Westinghouse, and General Electric are in
> various stages of project completion.
> According to industry estimates the first mass-produced electrics will be
> available within three years if the competition continues.
> The entire project was given a shot in the arm on August 30, 1966, when
> Senator Warren Magnuson introduced a bill (S. 3785) in Congress known as
> the "Electric Vehicle Development Act of 1966." Its purpose is to
> "encourage the development of electrically powered vehicles capable of
> performing public and private tasks in a practical manner." Its importance
> to the makers is brought out by provisions that the Secretary of Commerce
> report directly to the President and the Congress on the progress made with
> an annual appropriation of $2 million!
> Electrics were quite the item in the early 1900s, and had so much promise
> when compared with the early gasoline engine cars that in 1905 inventor
> Thomas Edison projected to manufacturer Walter Baker, "If you continue to
> produce your present quality of electric automobile, and I my present
> battery, the gas buggy industry won't stand a chance."
> They cut a path in racing circles even then. As early as 1899 an electric
> car held the World Land Speed Record of 69 mph. The Baker Torpedo of '05
> was one of the first cars to top 100 mph.
> But the problems of limited range and great weight were even too much for
> the 1913 combination of Edison and his former employee, Henry Ford. Their
> electric Model T project never reached the showrooms. The gasoline
> principle's triumph took on a final air when the commercial production of
> electrics ceased in the late '30s.
> Generally, electric vehicles were considered slow until space-age
> technology made exotic new power sources available. The range of the
> scientists' efforts provides a choice of "industrial" nickel-iron,
> nickel-cadmium, nickel-silver, silver-zinc, silver-cadmium, mercury, and
> other batteries. In addition, the recent lithium-chloride cell and the
> zinc-air battery are considered for production line use.
> Ford has elected to pursue a sodium-sulfur system which uses liquid sodium
> and liquid sulfur and an aluminum oxide ceramic electrolyte. Batteries with
> more than fifteen times the power density of conventional lead batteries
> are expected shortly. At the same time Ford has come up with an electric
> motor weighing only one-fourth as much as those now sold with the same
> capacity.
> GM debuted the Electrovair in late 1966, boasting a silver-zinc battery
> pack and a motor 

Re: [EVDL] battery heating pads

[Thos True via EV]

We have had excellent results using water bed heaters in our projects.

-Tom

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Rick Beebe via EV 
wrote:

> I have 4 battery boxes for my LiFePo4 cells. Two hold 8 cells, one holds
> 12, and the big one holds 28. They are aluminum boxes I had made by
> customaluminumboxes.com and I oversized them 2" in all directions. I put
> 1" foam insulation around the batteries. I bought 10 battery heating pads
> from KTA. They're some kind of mica sheets with heating elements in them
> sized to fit under a 12v starter battery. I put one each in the small
> boxes, 2 in the medium box and 6 in the large box with the cells sitting on
> top of them. I heat them from shoreline power when the truck is plugged in.
> I figure I want the batteries warm when I leave for better range and the
> insulation will help them stay warm during my travels. They worked great
> BUT failed partway through the third winter. My big box had too much flex
> and the brittle panels broke.
>
> The pads in the little boxes were fine so I replaced the 6 pads in the big
> box with two of these silicone rubber heating pads:
> http://store.evtv.me/proddetail.php?prod=batheater&cat=16. Very expensive
> but flexible. So far they're working well.
>
> --Rick
>
>
>
> On 1/3/2017 1:59 AM, ken via EV wrote:
>
>>   whats a good for heating batteries ?
>> water bed heater pad ?
>> What else could be used?
>>
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
> /NEDRA)
>
>


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Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...

[Thos True via EV]

Matt,

Having been involved with building (and rebuilding), and racing EV's for a
couple of decades, I have found the heat shrink tube method preferable, but
in situations where this is not readily available, other methods also work.
The two most common are wrapping the exposed ends in at least 2 layers of
#33 or #88 electrical tape, or using the fingers cut from rubber coated
gloves taped in place with whatever tape you have available (racetrack
example here!). Failing to insulated the exposed wires have been known to
lead to some nasty burns (on crew and vehicle), as well as damaged
batteries and battery boxes.
Hope that this helps!

-Tom True

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Matthew Quitter via EV 
wrote:

> Thanks for your reply. Great that I can now interact with the list. Have
> enjoyed being a spectator for a while but wanted to get involved.
>
> I've been using a small styrofoam cup as quick insulation... didn't seem
> adequate.
>
> So there's no product that anyone sells that's built for purpose?
>
> A rubber sleeve with some sort of oneway binding that allows the cable to
> be inserted easily but stops it falling off unless tugged.
>
> Have searched online but only found domestic small cabling solutions.
>
> > On 3 Jan 2017, at 16:56, Lee Hart  wrote:
> >
> > Matthew Quitter via EV wrote:
> >> I was wondering what people do to insulate the ends of live HV cables
> during installation and removal? Stop them accidentally touching something.
> >
> > I slide on a piece of heat-shrink tubing (small wires) or a piece of
> rubber hose (big wires or terminals).
> >
> > --
> > Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> > Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> > implement, test, and execute!
> > --
> > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> ___
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>
>


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Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?

[Thos True via EV]

Jay,

I too would steer clear from the Kelly controller. We tested a couple of
these when they first started selling in the states (they were looking for
distributors). We found that the specs were overstated (possibly peak level
at best). Smoked both units well before expectations.
I would go with either a Zilla or the Cafe unit that Roland cited.
(My 2 watts worth)

-Tom

On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:

> Jay Summet via EV wrote:
>
>> I have sent a message to the seller of the used Kelly controller on
>> EVTrading post as that appears to be the best option available right
>> now...
>>
>> The Zilla 1K would be my choice for a new build, as I've heard nothing
>> but good things about the Zillas...
>>
>> A drop in replacement 1231C would be ideal for getting back on the road
>> quickly, but if I'm paying new prices I may decide to go with something
>> else (as the 1232C blew up ;>)
>>
>> I'd seen the ZEVA controller listed online, and the 600 A one is nicely
>> priced, so it's good to hear from Matt that it works well for him.
>>
>
> Random comments:
>
> Kelly controllers seem to be of lower quality than the others.
>
> Don't try to use regen on the ADC FB4001 motor. Arc! Zap! Bang!
>
> The Zilla controllers are great. I've had two.
>
> It ain't easy to fix the Curtis 1231C, but it is possible (I've done it).
> A lot depends on just how much damage was done when it failed. It might be
> worse opening it up to take a look. If not too badly damaged, get it fixed.
>
> I don't have any experience with the ZEVA controllers, good or bad.
>
> --
> Teaching children to program goes against the grain of modern education.
> Just imagine the chaos if they learned to think logically, plan, create,
> implement, test, and execute!
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> ___
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
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>
>


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Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09

[Thos True via EV]

As I recall, the 2011 Nissan Leaf that we had made a Jetson spaceship type
of sound at low speeds. Not very loud or obnoxious, but definitely not
sound that was produced by the drive train. I asked the dealership about
it, and was told that it was a voluntary action in a proactive effort by
Nissan, expecting such requirements at some point in the future.
By the way, I find the blind argument offensive...I grew up with 2 blind
friends. They could tell you how fast a bicycle was approaching, let alone
a car just from the tire noise...It is the pedestrian blinded by
electronics technology that we need to concern ourselves with!

-TT

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> While there are obvious virtues to have EVs emit sounds, and I will not
> oppose the effort, what can we do to ensure the sounds are quiet enough and
> pleasant?
>
> I imagine with horror a city full of cars emitting 1khz square wave beeps,
> like so many commercial trucks and construction equipment. I can barely
> tolerate hearing those. Add to that and I will go crazy. I'm sure I'm not
> alone.
>
> Now, I don't expect the rulings to call for something that obnoxious. But
> still, without some pushback, we may increase the amount of noise from our
> current levels. That would be bad, in my opinion.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc:
> Sent: 15-Nov-16 4:27:39 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161115
>
>
> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
> "quiet cars" like electric vehicles and hybrids to emit alert sounds at
> speeds of up to 18.6 miles per hour (30 km/h) to help prevent injuries
> among pedestrians, cyclists and the blind.
>
> The rules, which were required by Congress, will require car makers like
> Tesla, Nissan and Toyota to add alert sounds to all vehicles by September
> 2019.
>
>>
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-Acentra-trim-based-Leaf-Black-Edition-gt-Limited-
>> eu-availability-Mar-Aug-2017-td4684475.html
>> EVLN: Acentra trim based Leaf Black Edition> Limited.eu availability
>> Mar-Aug
>> 2017
>> Nissan Leaf Black Edition promises sleeker all-electric motoring
>>  ... stylish, premium design ... 1st 1000 receive a free in-vehicle wi-fi
>> hotspot ...  has its work cut out competing with cheaper mainstream cars
>> ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-21-5k-Leaf-Taxi-ie-gt-Floating-on-a-marshmallow-
>> while-saving-the-planet-td4684474.html
>> EVLN: €21.5k Leaf Taxi.ie> Floating on a marshmallow while ‘saving the
>> planet’
>> Taxi driver happy to be 'saving planet' with his electric car
>> Dublin taxi driver, Peter Hanley became one of the first taxi drivers in
>> Ireland to work in an electric car when he bought his new Nissan Leaf just
>> over a year ago ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/EVLN-ALA-sez-Drive-Electric-and-protect-everyone-s-lung-
>> health-td4684469.html
>> EVLN: ALA sez Drive Electric and protect everyone's lung health
>> What’s the best way to keep your lungs healthy? Drive an electric car
>> You don’t hear much about keeping your lungs …
>>
>> +
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/Tesla-s-gallery-in-Aspen-part-of-big-push-in-ski-countr
>> y-of-the-West-td4684468.html
>> Tesla’s ‘gallery’ in Aspen part of big push in ski country of the West
>> Tesla beats electric path to ski towns
>> Sales of electric vehicles in the United States flattened in 2015 after a
>> couple of double-digit growth years. Some wondered if low gas prices had
>> dented the ...
>>
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.
>> com/52M-yr-Quiet-Electrified-cars-alert-sound-rules-by-
>> 2019-09-td4684467.html
>> $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
>> 'Quiet cars' rules to prevent injuries will cost makers $52 million a year
>> The US government on Monday completed long-delayed rules that will require
>> "quiet cars" ... emit alert sounds ... in reverse or forward at speeds up
>> to
>> about 19 mph ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://evdl.org/evln/
>> For all EVLN EV-newswire posts
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.0catch.com}
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discus
>> sion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-
>> for-20161115-tp4684476.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group
>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
> ___
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> Re

Re: [EVDL] Automakers lobby for "relief" from EVs

[Thos True via EV]

Nope, not the least bit surprised by this proposal.
This is woefully predictable, with the advent of citizens united allowing
the big oil guys to provide unlimited support for their chosen lawmakers,
and a great amount of misdirection by the "unbiased" media. Is it any
surprise that we now have such scenarios play out?

-TT

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 4:38 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Is anyone in the least surprised by this?
>
> Asia and the EU continue to adopt EVs.  There are even some smaller areas
> that seek to convert to a 100% EV fleet.  The US automakers are essentially
> saying "No thanks, we don't want to sell cars there."  Their loss.
>
> I've said this before, but it bears repeating.  When the oil shortages of
> the mid-1970s hit, Detroit was caught flat-footed.  Their best efforts at
> high-efficiency ICEVs were the Ford Pinto and Chevrolet Vega.  If you're
> too
> young to recall them, look them up on Wikipedia and have a good chuckle.
>
> Nissan and Toyota, however, had lots of good, small, efficient cars to
> sell.
> Their dealers were charging hundreds of dollars in "additional dealer
> markup" and still the cars kept flying off the lots.  Meanwhile, 13 mpg
> Detroit iron languished in the murky sunshine.
>
> It will happen again.  They just don't learn.
>
> As for who voted for whom, and whether anyone is to blame, that's off topic
> and none of anyone's business to boot.  That's why we have secret ballots
> in
> the US, one of the things that ... uh ... make our country great.  :-\
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> ___
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>


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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Thos True via EV]

Bush Jr. did it one swipe of the pen during his first 100 days. I remember
it clearly, within days of his CAFE action, the sales of conversion kits at
our shop dropped immediately, and never recovered. The auto makers stopped
selling NEV's, and the hybrids scaled their production way back.
You can expect that Europe , South America, and Asia will continue to
improve their air quality, but it seems that the good ol boys want to
produce money, instead of clean air.
As a result, we will surely be left behind in the growth of most
technologies.
Just my opinion BTW..

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 3:13 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> I'm concerned about that Trump statement, too. However, while he can use
> executive order to change a lot of things, he has to abide by congress for
> major changes. Plus the auto industry has started to invest heavily in EVs
> and I don't think they are going to change course abruptly. They will
> likely wait at least until the midterm elections to see which way congress
> goes. Am I being too optimistic?
>
> Peir
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Rush Dougherty via EV" 
> To: "'Bill Woodcock'" ; "'Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List'" 
> Cc:
> Sent: 09-Nov-16 3:01:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>
> Here is one of the things Trump has said that he is going to do in his
>> first 100
>> days -
>> "FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion
>> dollars'
>> worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil,
>> natural gas
>> and clean coal."
>>
>> More oil for cars and pollution, no clean energy, no EV's, get used to it
>> all over
>> again.
>>
>> Rush Dougherty
>> Tucson AZ 85719
>>
>>
>>  -Original Message-
>>>  From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Woodcock
>>> via EV
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 3:51 PM
>>>  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's
>>>
>>>
>>>  > On Nov 9, 2016, at 4:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV 
>>> wrote:
>>>  > I seriously wonder if the people on this list. who voted for trump
>>> realize the
>>>  > mess that he is
>>>  going to put us in.
>>>
>>>  Is that not the null set, seriously?
>>>
>>>  -Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> racing at
>>>  NEDRA
>>>  (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] Trump and EV's

[Thos True via EV]

It does not even begin to end at the EV / PV level. You can expect an
effort to repeal any and all EPA regulations, among others.
I dare say that we have dipped our toe into the perverbial Pandora's box of
reality the likes of which we may never have imagined.

Buckle up folks, this looks to be a VERY bumpy ride!

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 2:41 PM, Rush Dougherty via EV 
wrote:

> Here's just one article about Turnip's view on climate change -
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/
> wp/2016/11/09/trump-victo
> ry-reverses-u-s-energy-and-environmental-priorities/?tid=pm_business_pop_b
>
> "Although Trump has portrayed himself as the ultimate outsider, in putting
> together a transition team the New York real estate mogul has chosen
> veteran
> Washington insiders, many of them lobbyists for fossil fuel companies and
> skeptics about climate science."
>
> And you can be sure that as soon as those "lobbyists for fossil fuel
> companies"
> have any sort of say or power all the EV benefits will be thrown out the
> window... no more PV discussions, no more wind power discussion.
>
> I seriously wonder if the people on this list, who have EV's or who are
> proponents of EV's and who voted for trump realize the mess that he is
> going to
> put us in.
>
> Rush Dougherty
> Tucson AZ 85719
>
>
>
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>
>


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Re: [EVDL] Best charge rate for longevity

[Thos True via EV]

Rush and All,

I agree that the information can be quite confusing. I tried my best to
make it clear that what the engineer told me.
It was that 0% on the instrumentation is about 20% in the pack, and that
100% on the instrumentation is about 80% in the pack. Thjis was the best
that they could do to remove the customer error factor in the charging
protocol.
If you charge it to 80% per the instrumentation, it will not hurt your
pack, but you will of course experience lower range because you are not
charging to the full potential.

Hope this helps to clear things up some,

-Tom


On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Mark Hanson via EV 
wrote:

> Thanks folks
>
> So if the Leaf charges at the 100% setting to 4.12vpc and 80% to 4.05vpc
> and battery university says max life of 2k cycles is at 4.00vpc then I
> should change my charge cut off at 80% for daily short trips of 15 miles
> typical.  Plus since balancing occurs all the time there's no need to
> charge at 100% except for long trips
> Best regards
> Mark
> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that isthequestion

[Thos True via EV]

Peri,

My thinking on the degradation has to do with the fact that most people do
not actually discharge the cells below 50 or 60 percent.
I learned from some of the people involved with the lithium cells that it
is best to think of them as a "sponge". That is, if you leave a sponge
soaking in a bucket, it rots very quickly (always plugged in or charged),
and if you leave it on a shelf all the time, it becomes very hard, and
takes a very long time to re-hydrate (prolonged low charge). However is you
wring it out on a regular basis, lasts for a very long time (regular full
charges and discharges). This is why it was recommended to fully discharge
ie. wring out (according to the instrumentation) once per month.
I know that it worked well for me.

-Tom

On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 7:10 AM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Something doesn't make sense, here. No doubt you prolonged the battery
> capacity by not charging and discharging fully, per the engineer's advice.
>
> But according to what others have said, if you consistently charge to 80%
> and discharge to 20%, you should see very little or no capacity degradation
> with LiFePos. Yet the vast majority of Leaf owners do see significant
> degradation and never see thermal runaway.
>
> So, either LiFePos need even a smaller margin of operation, say 35% to
> 65%, or what the engineer told you isn't completely true. Or there's some
> other significant factor in the situation.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Thos True via EV" 
> To: "Cor van de Water" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List" 
> Sent: 05-Oct-16 7:00:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that
> isthequestion
>
> I'm not sure why this keeps coming back to roost. Some people on this list
>> may recall the same conversation back in the spring of 2011, where I
>> contacted Nissan about the 80% issue. I received a phone call from one of
>> the engineers in Tennessee. He understood my confusion and expressed some
>> frustration at their end, explaining that they designed the on board
>> battery management system to protect the batteries. Doing so by never
>> letting the batteries charge above 80% (which shows as the full 100% on
>> the
>> instrumentation), and never discharging below 20% (which shows as 0%).
>> Explaining that if you let the battery pack get below 10%, it would
>> typically brick (not allow a charge), and above 90%, that your could
>> experience a thermal even ( Thermal runaway & fire).
>> The final recommendation from him was to discharge the pack to 10 miles or
>> so in range (according to the instrumentation), and fully recharge about
>> once a month to "refresh" the battery. I followed his advice, and after 39
>> months and 56,000 miles, (the end of the lease), the pack was still above
>> 98% capacity, which seemed to surprise the service department at the
>> dealership where we turned it in at.
>> I suspect that some of the degradation that we experienced may have been
>> due to some of the fast chargers that we used toward the end of the lease,
>> but have no way to be sure of that.
>>
>> Tom True
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <
>> ev@lists.evdl.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Let's try that *with* the link:
>>>  https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/29/tales-from-a-tesla-model-
>>> s-at-200k-mil
>>>  es/
>>>
>>>
>>>  Cor van de Water
>>>  Chief Scientist
>>>  Proxim Wireless
>>>
>>>  office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>>>  XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>>
>>>  http://www.proxim.com
>>>
>>>  This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>>>  proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>>>  this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>>>  unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>>>  this message is prohibited.
>>>
>>>
>>>  -Original Message-
>>>  From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de
>>>  Water via EV
>>>  Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:28 PM
>>>  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>>>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that
>>>  isthequestion
>>>
>>>  Here is the article about the 200k mi Tesla (in 1 year) Note that
>>>  Tesloop is actually aiming at putting 400k mi on their c

Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that isthequestion

[Thos True via EV]

I'm not sure why this keeps coming back to roost. Some people on this list
may recall the same conversation back in the spring of 2011, where I
contacted Nissan about the 80% issue. I received a phone call from one of
the engineers in Tennessee. He understood my confusion and expressed some
frustration at their end, explaining that they designed the on board
battery management system to protect the batteries. Doing so by never
letting the batteries charge above 80% (which shows as the full 100% on the
instrumentation), and never discharging below 20% (which shows as 0%).
Explaining that if you let the battery pack get below 10%, it would
typically brick (not allow a charge), and above 90%, that your could
experience a thermal even ( Thermal runaway & fire).
The final recommendation from him was to discharge the pack to 10 miles or
so in range (according to the instrumentation), and fully recharge about
once a month to "refresh" the battery. I followed his advice, and after 39
months and 56,000 miles, (the end of the lease), the pack was still above
98% capacity, which seemed to surprise the service department at the
dealership where we turned it in at.
I suspect that some of the degradation that we experienced may have been
due to some of the fast chargers that we used toward the end of the lease,
but have no way to be sure of that.

Tom True

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 11:39 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
wrote:

> Let's try that *with* the link:
> https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/29/tales-from-a-tesla-model-s-at-200k-mil
> es/
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de
> Water via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:28 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that
> isthequestion
>
> Here is the article about the 200k mi Tesla (in 1 year) Note that
> Tesloop is actually aiming at putting 400k mi on their cars each year,
> so the 8 year warranty on battery and drivetrain would give them ~3
> million miles under warranty...
> Their website has a blog with a few of the details, including an early
> front motor replacement under warranty.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de
> Water via EV
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 2:06 PM
> To: Willie2; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is
> thequestion
>
> Willie,
> Not dynamically, just a one-time upgrade (dealer visit required).
> Many Leaf owners who lost the 4th bar and thought they qualified for the
> warranty battery replacement were miffed to see the dealer really
> enforcing the Nissan requirement that the warranty will only be honored
> after the mandatory re-calibration of the 12 battery bar gauge. Most
> owners found out that after re-calibration their earlier 4 bar loser no
> longer showed 4 bars lost so they no longer qualified unless they would
> again see 4 bars lost on the re-calibrated gauge. The first bar does not
> disappear until 15% is lost and each subsequent bar should stand for
> 6.25% so in theory you need a battery degraded to just over 66% of
> nominal capacity to qualify if the gauge will indeed drop to 4 bars
> right at that point. But reports I have seen of Ah capacity degradation
> suggest that the loss of the 4th bar happens later.
> I found it significant that Leafs can lose more than 40% capacity in
> about 50k mi while some Tesla drops only 6% in 200k mi.
>
> Of course this is only one sample with a specific usage pattern, but I
> highly doubt an expansion of the samples will give different results,
> we'll see.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> ht

Re: [EVDL] Electron Automotive - Any experiences?

[Thos True via EV]

What are the codes exactly? some are specific, others tend to be systematic.
If systematic, replacing a damaged component can correct several codes. If
specific, then it favors the dealers sensor replacement model.

Just my 2 watts worth,
Tom

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 8:22 AM, Michael Kadie via EV 
wrote:

> I have a friend that bought a Chevy Volt with front end damage.  He
> replace the charger and charger connector and fixed the front end damage.
> The Chevy dealer says its throwing codes and 'no one will touch it'.
> Any recommendations?
> Any opinions about Electron Automotive?  We are in LA
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael Tyrannosaurus Kadie
>
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>


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Re: [EVDL] Used EV's for sale on Autotrader

[Thos True via EV]

Tom,

I agree with your theory. We leased a 2011 Leaf, and opted to return it
rather than buy it out.
The primary reason was one of economics. They wanted significantly more for
the remainder than the car was worth on the open market. For example, we
found that we could buy a model year newer with half the miles for a little
less than what Nissan wanted us to pay for the car that we had in hand.
Seemed more than a bit absurd to us.

Regards,
Tom

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 8:00 AM, Tom Keenan via EV 
wrote:

> A big part of the increased availability of used EVs is that most
> electrics (according to an October 2015 CNBC article, around 80% in 2013
> and 2014, currently around 75%) are leased as opposed to sold outright.
> This compares with about 28% of ICE vehicles being leased.  As these
> three-year leases end, they are either auctioned off or sold by the
> dealership they were returned to.
> I haven't seen any data yet on the 'loyalty' rate of lease returnees
> either getting another EV or getting oil regressing back to fossil fuel.
>
> Tom Keenan
>
> > On Aug 21, 2016, at 1:43 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 21 Aug 2016 at 0:28, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
> >>
> >> Bob is right there are a lot of used EVs out there.
> >
> > Do we know what that means?  Does it mean that a lot of people bought
> EVs,
> > and then decided they didn't like them, or they didn't work for them?
> Did
> > they then go back to ICEVs?
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
>
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>


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Re: [EVDL] Pop-starting a stick shift?

[Thos True via EV]

It likely has to do with the neutral safety switch that became mandatory in
new cars a couple of decades ago.
-Tom

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 7:27 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> This is the only car group I know.  So pardon the off-topic post.
>
>
>
> A young kid with a minicooper flagged me down to jump start his car.  I
> told him, I’d be happy to if he could figure out how to use my 400V pack….
>
>
>
> Then I asked, well, have you tried just rolling it and popping the clutch
> to get it started.  He looked at me with blank stare.  I smugly said, sure,
> it’s a stick shift, so we just get it rolling and pop the clutch and it
> will start.
>
>
>
> It wouldn’t.  Then I began to realize, that all the cars I have done this
> with in the past DID NOT HAVE ANY CPU’s in them.  IE, all you have to do is
> get a spark, not power up and entire network of computers before the motor
> will even begin to consider the “starting process”.
>
>
>
> So is this true?  That we can no longer pop-start a modern car with a dead
> battery?
>
>
>
> My son (too cheap to buy a new battery) still does it frequently with his
> pre-cpu Geo-Tracker, in fact we just did it last week.
>
>
>
> I’m just too old for all these newfangled hurdles…
>
>
>
> Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Shock and Awe - Historic run 9.589 Seconds @ 152 MPH!!!

[Thos True via EV]

Congratulations to a great team effort!
In the '90s, I was trying to locate a funny car chassis to try something
along these lines. Great to see the concept finally coming to the
forefront.
Again, Congratulations and keep up the great work!
Also, it caught my attention when I saw the person holding the tire
pressure gaugethat your launch has too much bounce- an indicator of too
much pressure in the tires.

-Tom  True

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Casey Mynott via EV 
wrote:

> Hey all!
>
> A historic day for the Shock and Awe racing team from Bothell Washington
> and
> the world of drag racing!
>
> After sitting in gridlock and sweltering heat on the #1 towards Mission
> Raceway, I arrived just as the track was doing lunch. All in all it was an
> amazing day with some serious excitement (a 9.589 second 152 MPH run) and a
> bit of a turn at the end of the day. During run #2 the 16 volt AGM (which
> was changed out for a faltering 16v lithium pack of headway cells) ran out
> just as the team was pulling up to the line. So, yesterday ended in a
> somber
> moment of reflection. A good reminder, racing is a tough sport, physically,
> mentally, emotionally, financially, all of the above!
>
> The team is at the track today hoping to get in another run, depending on
> how that goes possibly a second.
>
> For now, enjoy the video! :)
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53JTDnmj_w
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Casey
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shock-and-Awe-Historic-run-9-589-Seconds-152-MPH-tp4682360.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> ___
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


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Re: [EVDL] Dead accessory battery (was: Shock and Awe - Historic run 9.589 Seconds @ 152 MPH!!!)

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Bill,
I have to heartily agree that the dead accessory battery happens to
everyone at one time or another (Murphy dictates how difficult the timing
will be).
I recall that we developed the habit of having at least one back up battery
just for such a situation. We usually had a couple of the Hawker Genesis
batteries on hand for replacements on Father Time's drag bikes, so it
wasn't too inconvenient after the first time.
-Tom True

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

> A dead 12 volt accessory battery has happened at one point or another to
> everyone.
>
> We typically run a small DC-to-DC converter to keep the accessory battery
> topped up, just to avoid the dreaded flat accessory battery.
> You absolutely _must_ have a 12 volt accessory battery, but a DC-DC that
> runs whenever the vehicle is "on" increases the reliability a great deal.
> Small expense, but is good insurance against forgetting to charge the 12
> volt, which is easy to forget in the excitement of race day. (Ask me how I
> know. :-) )
>
> We use a Vicor DC-DC converter module (or more than one in parallel) like
> this one:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/201199082834
> You might choose a different model, (like a VE-j72-CY) depending on your
> main pack voltage and your wattage needs. You should get a 15 volt output
> and trim it down to ~13.5 volts (read the data sheet). If you get one with
> 12 volt output, it won't charge a 12 volt battery because it really puts
> out exactly 12.0 volts.
>
> I don't know who originally said it but, "To finish first, one must first
> finish."
>
> I'm guessing, but you probably used a portable "12 volt" battery charger
> to recharge your Li-Ion "12 volt" accessory battery. That is likely what
> ruined it. Almost without exception, the open circuit voltage of all
> portable "12 volt battery chargers" is greater than 15 volts, (often as
> high as 17 volts) which is a death sentence for a "12 volt" Li-Ion pack.
> Always measure the open circuit voltage, with a voltmeter, on a battery
> charger before you use it to charge a Li-Ion battery. Any power supply or
> charger that put out over ~14.7 volts open circuit will toast a Li-Ion
> accessory battery. Find one, like a laptop power supply, that puts out the
> _correct_ voltage.
>
> Also, leaving a switch on overnight accidentally will drain the accessory
> battery to zero, which will also result in the demise of a 12 volt Li_ion
> accessory battery. Good to have an LED tail light or dash indicator light
> that lets everyone know that the 12 volts is "on".
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Bill D.
>
> On 6/5/2016 1:20 PM, Casey Mynott via EV wrote:
>
>> Hey all!
>>
>> A historic day for the Shock and Awe racing team from Bothell Washington
>> and
>> the world of drag racing!
>>
>> After sitting in gridlock and sweltering heat on the #1 towards Mission
>> Raceway, I arrived just as the track was doing lunch. All in all it was an
>> amazing day with some serious excitement (a 9.589 second 152 MPH run) and
>> a
>> bit of a turn at the end of the day. During run #2 the 16 volt AGM (which
>> was changed out for a faltering 16v lithium pack of headway cells) ran out
>> just as the team was pulling up to the line. So, yesterday ended in a
>> somber
>> moment of reflection. A good reminder, racing is a tough sport,
>> physically,
>> mentally, emotionally, financially, all of the above!
>>
>> The team is at the track today hoping to get in another run, depending on
>> how that goes possibly a second.
>>
>> For now, enjoy the video! :)
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53JTDnmj_w
>>
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Casey
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Shock-and-Awe-Historic-run-9-589-Seconds-152-MPH-tp4682360.html
>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>>
> ___
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Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating

[Thos True via EV]

We used waterbed heaters under the packs in the Silver Bullet without any
issues for more than 4 years, setting 8 consecutive records.
Found them to be very durable. Not sure that I would place the same amount
of faith in a electric blanket, as the conductors are not very well
protected under the fabric.
As for running the heater from batteries, I am of the opinion that we only
needed to heat the pack during storage and prior to the first run down the
track ( the hard discharge and quick recharge warms things up pretty
quick!). After we reached 100 degrees F, the issue rapidly became one of
cooling (dry ice + fans were fairly effective).
Keep up the great work!

-Tom
On Jun 4, 2016 10:24 AM, "paul dove via EV"  wrote:

> There are different requirements for blankets sold in the USA. They must
> be low power compared to the ones sold in other countries.
>
>   From: Bobby Keeland via EV 
>  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ; John Lindsay <
> johnslind...@mac.com>
>  Sent: Saturday, June 4, 2016 8:27 AM
>  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Modified Sine Wave Heating
>
>   I used an electric blanket under a water bed through an entire winter.
> It worked fine while turned on the entire time.
>
>   Under a bunch of batteries in a moving vehicle I would not trust.
> Bob Keeland
> On Jun 4, 2016 7:48 AM, "John Lindsay via EV"  wrote:
>
> We use them under people in Australia. Not recommended to be left on when
> you're in bed but folks do.
>
> John Lindsay
>
> > On 4 Jun 2016, at 9:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 3 Jun 2016 at 22:39, Bill Dennis via EV wrote:
> >>
> >> I've see Lee Hart's description of using an electric blanket under a
> battery
> >> pack for heating.  Does anyone know if the controllers for these
> blankets will
> >> work with a modified sine wave inverter?  That is, if the blanket's
> little
> >> control unit that allows you do adjust the heat setting and has an
> automatic
> >> shut-off timer will work if powered by a modified sine wave inverter.
> >
> > Not that I mean to answer for Lee, but - maybe.
> >
> > One issue that should be OK - assuming that the thermostat is a
> traditional
> > mechanical type - is its ability to handle your inverter's output wave.
> >
> > "Modified sine wave" inverters should really be called "modified square
> > wave" because they're closer to that.  But the wave still crosses zero
> volts
> > 120 times a second.  That's what you need for the thermostat to manage
> > opening without welding its contacts, which is what would probably happen
> if
> > you tried to use it on DC.
> >
> > If the blanket has some kind of electronic controller, instead of a
> > mechanical thermostat, then I don't know.
> >
> > I have some other concerns.  One problem I see is that an electric
> blanket
> > thermostat responds to room air temperature.  It cycles on and off every
> few
> > minutes or so (coarse PWM), with more on-time as the room temperature
> falls.
> > Seems to me that it'd be tough to make it hold a consistent battery
> > temperature, since it wouldn't be able to sense the actual battery
> > temperature.
> >
> > Also, the thermostat isn't designed for automotive use, where it might be
> > exposed to the elements and lots of vibration.
> >
> > Finally, I'd be concerned that an electric blanket isn't designed to have
> > weight on it, it's meant to be placed OVER a person.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> > reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [EVDL] Are other safety certifications accepted by cities & insurance?

[Thos True via EV]

In my many years of doing electrical work and installing a wide variety of
electrical equipment, I have run into this issue numerous times. Due to the
vigilant marketing by UL labs, most electrical inspectors are usually
looking for that label. However, I have had reasonable success in getting
them to accept CE an ETL once I bring up the point that they are recognized
alternatives to UL. Education is the key, of course.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Arnold_Offner via EV 
wrote:

> Both ETL -Intertek and UL are on the SAE J1772 Committee, and they both
> fall
> under the "Nationally Recognized Test Laboratory" (NRTL) program run by
> OSHA
> (Occupational Safety & Health Administration)here in the the USA.
>
> https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/
>
> The Listed or Recognized designation is required per the National
> Electrical
> Code, and both test lab companies are active in the newer technologies
> available to us consumers, Solar PV, LED Lighting etc. . .
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Are-other-safety-certifications-accepted-by-cities-insurance-tp4681083p4681126.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Thos True via EV]

Peter,

I believe that the units that are cited have factory installed cord ends.
Installing a cord cap on a device approved for direct connection can be
argued as a safety feature (means for emergency disconnection), though it
may be a tough sell.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 10:01 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 7 Mar 2016 at 9:07, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>
> > The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the
> > current capacity is sufficient.
>
> I may be remembering wrong, but I think that adding a cord and plug to a
> device approved for direct connection and not for temporary installation is
> a code violation.  Not that you're likely to get in trouble, but still ...
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Thos True via EV]

Agreed Peter. Of course, once you have the 4 square box present with the
decided upon conductors, the receptacle (or lack of) is academic.. I do
recommend a minimum conductor size of #8 however to allow for future
upgrades at a minimal expense.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Peter C. Thompson via EV 
wrote:

> To add to this conversation, here are some commercial chargers:
>
> Clipper Creek LCS-20P - uses 14-30 plug. LCS-25P also uses 14-30. The
> HCS-40P uses the 6-50.
> GE  EVWSWBC-CP01 uses the 6-50 plug.
> AeroVironment EV station (7kw) uses the 6-40 plug.
> Juicebox 40A uses the 14-50 plug.
> AeroVironment Turbocord uses the 6-20.
> Levitron EVB40-PST uses the 6-50.
> Nissan Leaf charger uses 6-50R.
> EV Power Pros 7kw uses 6-50.
>
> The hard-wired chargers can use the plug of your choice - as long as the
> current capacity is sufficient.
>
> So I think it depends on the amount of current you are going to pull.
> Lower current seems to use the 14-30 and higher current uses the 6-50.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
> P.S.  sorry for the HTML earlier.
>
>
> On 3/7/16 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV wrote:
>
>> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30
>> Amp charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message
>> From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date:
>> 3/7/2016  3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
>> ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To
>> Wire A Garage EVSE
>> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
>> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
>> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
>> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
>> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
>> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
>> am aware of
>> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
>> the
>> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
>> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
>> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
>> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>>
>> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
>> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
>> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
>> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
>> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>>
>> Cor van de Water
>> Chief Scientist
>> Proxim Wireless
>>office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>
>> http://www.proxim.com
>>
>> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>> this message is prohibited.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
>> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
>> -electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
>> How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
>> Know
>> Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker
>>
>> [images
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
>> Garage
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 socket
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
>> NEMA 6-50 plug in socket
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box
>>
>> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
>> uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
>> Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
>> station
>> ]
>>One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
>> electric
>> car seems to be the need for a home charging station.
>>
>> While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
>> charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
>> 240-Volt Level 2 charging station.
>>
>> Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
>> depending on the specific car.
>>
>> Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
>> garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it takes
>> to
>> install one into a g

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE

[Thos True via EV]

Good to see this post.
As an electrician who has done many of these retrofitted and a few new
construction EVSE circuit installations, I tend to agree with most of the
advice given. I have found that the easiest way to explain the idea to most
potential EV owners is to describe it as a welding outlet (something that
has been a common addition to garages for a couple of generations now). As
for the 6-50 issue, I agree that it is a good choice, but a raised cover
with a grommet for the cord to be sliced inside the box works well too. The
plug type cord is usually at least $10 more than those without. For the
past couple of years,
I have recommended the use of #8 wires as a standard, with a 40 Amp 2 pole
breaker, 30 Amp 2 pole if they are using a smaller charger.

-Tom

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 5:27 AM, dovepa via EV  wrote:

> That is interesting because I purchased a Siemens VersiCharge Gen 2 30 Amp
> charger and it had a NE MA 6-50 plug on the end.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message
> From: Cor van de Water via EV  Date: 3/7/2016
> 3:18 AM  (GMT-06:00) To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To
> Wire A Garage EVSE
> Sorry, but I think this is bad advice.
> NEMA 6-50 is not the most common plug. The NEMA 14-50 (RV plug) is by
> far the most useful plug, found in every camping and RV spot, it is used
> for stove or other appliance connection in newer homes (old homes had
> 10-50 or 10-30 for stove and dryer respectively) so I do not know why
> 6-50 is recommended in this article? Are there other areas than what I
> am aware of
> where NEMA 6-50 is common? I could not find them and Wikipedia says of
> the
> NEMA 6: "The higher-current versions are rare..."
> I am only aware of somewhat common use of the NEMA 6-20 which is the 20A
> version that looks like the usual NEMA 5 outlet and plug, but then used
> on window ACs that run on 240V instead of 120V.
>
> I would *definitely* recommend to mount a 14-30 or 14-50 where you want
> to plug in the charger, since that is also useful for the common
> appliances such as a dryer and you can even plug in an RV.
> Conversely, if you mount a 14-50 plug on your charger and carry it, you
> can plug in at any campground or other RV facility.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
> this message is prohibited.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 12:16 AM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: What You Need To Know To Wire A Garage EVSE
>
>
>
> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100526_how-to-wire-a-new-garage-for
> -electric-car-charging-what-you-need-to-know
> How To Wire A New Garage For Electric-Car Charging: What You Need To
> Know
> Feb 26, 2016  John Voelcker
>
> [images
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/garage_100546966_l.jpg
> Garage
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug_100546965_l.jpg
> NEMA 6-50 plug
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-socket_100546964_l.jpg
> NEMA 6-50 socket
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/nema-6-50-plug-in-socket_100546961_l.jpg
> NEMA 6-50 plug in socket
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box_100546962_l.jpg
> Circuit-breaker box
>
> http://images.hgmsites.net/lrg/circuit-breaker-box-showing-240-volt-circ
> uit-for-electric-car-charging-station_100546963_l.jpg
> Circuit-breaker box showing 240-Volt circuit for electric-car charging
> station
> ]
>
> One of the more daunting perceived obstacles to driving a plug-in
> electric
> car seems to be the need for a home charging station.
>
> While plug-in hybrids can be recharged overnight using their 120-Volt
> charging cords, battery-electric drivers should really have access to a
> 240-Volt Level 2 charging station.
>
> Those will recharge the full battery pack in anything from 4 to 9 hours,
> depending on the specific car.
>
> Many owners will want to retrofit a charging station into an existing
> garage, but to lay out the principles, we're starting with what it takes
> to
> install one into a garage that's being built or extensively remodeled.
>
> We've just gone through that process for a new garage in New York's
> Catskill
> Mountains. (Note this applies only to North America!)
>
> There are several steps, but it's important to understand that the
> wiring is
> the first step, and separate from the charging station--since drivers
> may
> later choose to upgrade 

Re: [EVDL] Watts the CD of the Sparrow EV #13?

[Thos True via EV]

It is located at the old powerhouse on highway 66 in Kingman, AZ. (120 W,
Andy Devine Ave.,in Kingman). Yes, we need more signage and publicity. I
have made a few comments here on the EVDL about the museum including the
grand opening announcement in August of 2014.
-Tom

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 8:47 AM, Willie2 via EV  wrote:

> On 03/05/2016 10:14 AM, Thos True via EV wrote:
>
>> Might I recommend a donation or at least a display at the Historical
>> Electric Vehicle Museum? A Sparrow would be a great addition to their
>> existing display! Feel free to contact Roderick Wilde or myself for more
>> information.
>>
>>
>> Is this being kept secret?  A Washington state based museum?  An Arizona
> museum?  In recent months I was through Kingman twice and had no idea the
> museum was there.   Even though I'm a rather compusive EVDL reader.  Had I
> known, I certainly would have stopped in.
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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>


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Re: [EVDL] Watts the CD of the Sparrow EV #13?

[Thos True via EV]

Might I recommend a donation or at least a display at the Historical
Electric Vehicle Museum? A Sparrow would be a great addition to their
existing display! Feel free to contact Roderick Wilde or myself for more
information.

Best Regards,
Tom True

On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 1:34 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> [ref
>
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/sparrow-cd-tp4680791.html
> ]
>
> % [Assumption: CD = current disposition]
> John is right, the Sparrow_EV yahoo group will be helpful for you.
>
> EV History: Many years ago, before yahoo bought-up egroups, I created
> several discussion egroups, and their aligned geocities web sites (which
> were also swallowed by yahoo) for EVs, pih, +altfuel in the hopes of using
> the then new Internet to help the public get the truth about this topics,
> as
> well as being a useful resource for those drivers.
>
> Sparrow_EV was the first of my egroups to grow very quickly. All their
> members voted to have specific members take-over ownership of the egroup
> for
> themselves (which was great because that freed me up to do other good EV
> deeds). That group seems to have served those Sparrow_EV owners quite well
> and I am happy for that ( hence, the reason I spent the time creating those
> groups and websites).
>
> Please tell their members that their group's creator  brucedp  says Hi, and
> if you feel the following would be useful to them, share this post's
> http://evdl.org/archive/
> URL/link with them.
>
> I did a search, finding a couple of Sparrow_EV yahoo groups posts (below)
> you might find interesting. Plus at the bottom I also included a couple of
> links on Corbin.
> %
>
>
>
> - [dated]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sparrow_ev/conversations/messages/24689
> 24689 Re: (sparrow_ev) #13 is finally out of a barn
> envirocommuters  Sep 30, 2015 ...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: c_harpell@... [sparrow_ev] 
> To: sparrow_ev 
> Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2015 7:07 pm
> Subject: (sparrow_ev) #13 is finally out of a barn
>
> sparrow #13 was purchased new by Charles MacArthur and was used for a few
> years and then sat it a barn. 5 years ago I tried to purchase it from him
> and the deal didn't work out. Unfortunately Charles passed away and the
> sparrow was auctioned off this past Saturday so I sat and waited for it to
> cross the block and held my hand up until I won. Will post more pics and
> info in the coming weeks, but just wanted to share with everyone.
> -
> ...
> http://insideevs.com/charlie-macarthur-ev-activist-1928-2015/
> Charlie MacArthur, EV Activist: 1928 – 2015
>
>
>
> - [dated]
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sparrow_ev/conversations/topics/24779
> Sparrow #13 for sale
> c_harpell Message 1 of 10 , Nov 21, 2015
>
> Sorry for the long one here, but I feel it necessary...I recently purchased
> sparrow #13 from the estate of the late Charles MacArthur. This was a 5
> year
> purchase in the works. About 5 years ago I met with Charles and tried to
> purchase his sparrow from him but he was not ready to sell yet. I let him
> know that whenever he decided to sell it that I would always be interested
> in it. I found out a few months ago that Charles had passed away and his
> large collection of cars that he spent many years collecting was going to
> be
> parted out in 2 days. I knew that I just had to get the Sparrow that eluded
> me 5 years ago. I purchased the car from the auction about a month ago. It
> had been sitting in my basement untouched for the last month. I have come
> to
> the conclusion that I will never get it back up and running and I would
> only
> want the car to go to someone from here who will take care of it and will
> make sure that Charles legacy lives on.
>
> So, with all that being said, here is more info on the car. I paid
> $4908.75
> for the car at auction including fees. I know that most people wouldn't
> advertise this info, but here is the best part, I am only looking to get
> 4,000 for the car. I know that most people don't try and loose money on a
> purchase, but its more then money to me.
>
> The car is #13 according to all the paperwork from Corbin. Charles was a
> close friend of the Corbin family and was told that the was actually the
> 2nd
> sparrow made. I dont know about that, but that was the story direct from
> Charles. The car was purchased new from him on 12/15/98 for 10,400.00. The
> vin number is 1C9Ts1205WH604013. Currently the car is not running, I know
> it
> has sat for many years and will need some work to get up and going again.
> There is also some minor cracks in the fiberglass, but nothing too bad. The
> car rolls freely and brakes work just fine. Overall the car is in decent
> shape and I will put pictures in the photo section for all to see. This car
> also comes with a TON of paperwork that Charles had gathered over the
> years.
> He also had a log book of everytime he drove the car with tons of info
> about
> each trip out it it. Also lots of logs in the 

Re: [EVDL] A couple of Leaf observations. With more added on.

[Thos True via EV]

I recall from a conversation with a Nissan engineer in 2011, he told me
that the BMS on board the Leaf was designed to limit both the charging and
the discharging in order to protect the integrity of the battery pack. This
was in response to my question regarding the 80% instruction  in the
owner's manual.
In other words, his instruction to me was to go ahead and charge to the
100%, according to the instrumentation of the vehicle, as this was not the
actual 100% state of charge, but rather a buffered level.
The same goes for when the car goes into "turtle mode". If you insist on
running until the turtle dies, the battery still has enough of a reserve to
accept a charge.

-Tom

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:01 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

> I noticed Lee Hart saying he doesn't charge to 100%.  Why.  Nissan in
> their wisdom doesn't allow us to charge to 100%.  So if you don't you are
> more like at 70%.  I now have Leaf Spy and even on slow level two charge
> can't get more than 97.3%.  A fast charge in 45 minutes might get as high
> as 93%.  It seems you can't get 100% charge in any case.  So I top off
> without worry. I try to avoid low charge as much as possible.Lawrence
> Rhodes
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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Re: [EVDL] Wiring for 6 KW charger

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Seth,

Do you have any pictures of the parts that you are asking about?
My gut tells me that you may be able to bond the ground wire to the outlet
box. Perhaps the better alternative would be to replace your existing
circuit breaker with a GFCI circuit breaker.

-Tom

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 7:55 AM, Seth Rothenberg via EV 
wrote:

> Friends, I have a small question.
>
> I bought a dryer replacement cord with a 3-prong plug
> and a matching socket (10-30R)
> and a 2-gang box and dry-while-in-use cover
> that will work with the socket.   I ran a 10-2 with ground
> and I have a 30 amp GFCI 2-pole breaker.
>
> I noticed on the socket it says "3-pole, 3-wire, non-grounding"
> and indeed I see that the L-shaped prong is not grounded
> to the mounting plate.
>
> Is this an appropriate combination to feed the 6kw charger
> on my Leaf, using the OpenEVSE?
>
> Is there something more appropirate for a GFCI-protected
> 30 amp 220 circuit?
>
>
> At work, we disposed of a bunch of servers and I scored
> six L6-30 plugs already on 13' cords. Like new, never saw light of day :-)
>
> Ebay yielded a Lot of ten L6-30R inline receptacles.
> This will allow me to make other adapters as mentioned
> on this list.
>
>
> Thanks
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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Re: [EVDL] Installing External Charge Access

[Thos True via EV]

You can buy a Clipper Creek unit on Amazon for a price of $400 -$600,
making your use to friends (both current and newly found) much more
convenient.
If we were expected to carry our L2 with us everywhere that we went, most
public installations would be a simple Nema 14-50 receptacle. Which would
not be very conducive to the proliferation of EV's in my opinion.
In most cases, the installation of a 40 amp outlet is pretty straight
forward ( typically this is equivalent to the installation of a welding
outlet).

-Tom

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Mike Nickerson via EV 
wrote:

> But, in order to use the NEMA 14-50 plug, you have to bring your EVSE to
> adapt between the outlet and the J1772 plug in the car.  I think Tom's
> statement would be true if he added "with standard equipment".  If most
> users have to bring an EVSE to use the outlet, I think that would reduce
> the likelihood of regular use.  If the EVSE is already present as part of
> the installation, it is more likely to be used since every commercial EV
> driver could use it without bringing equipment.
>
> Of course, this also makes the installation much more expensive.  The
> person paying for the installation gets to decide how they want to do it.
> Some smart, experienced EV drivers will have their own equipment, just in
> case.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On January 25, 2016 10:28:32 AM MST, Lee Hart via EV 
> wrote:
> >tomw via EV wrote:
> >> No manufactured ev other than Tesla with an adapter can make use of
> >your NEMA
> >> 14-50.  They all use either standard 120V outlet, L1, or require a
> >J1772
> >> plug to use L2.
> >
> >Not quite true. We have a Leaf. Indeed, the only way to charge it is
> >via
> >its J1772 connector.
> >
> >However, it came with a 120v to J1772 adapter cable, so I can charge it
> >
> >from any standard 120vac outlet. It's basically nothing but an
> >(expensive) extension cord, with a 120v 15a plug on one end, a J1772 on
> >
> >the other, and a shoe-sized lump in the middle for a GFCI and some
> >blinkin-lights.
> >
> >I also have an Avcon EV Power-Pak. It has a standard NEMA 14-50 on one
> >end, and a J1772 on the other. It too is basically a fancy extension
> >cord, with the lump in the middle about the size of a shoe box. It
> >charges the Leaf about 3 times faster than the 120v charging cord.
> >
> >The Power-Pak is small enough that I can throw it in the trunk and
> >charge at any campground, marina, etc. Pretty much all of them have
> >14-50 receptacles for RV charging.
>
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Re: [EVDL] Updated: Outdoor home EVSE: Installing External ChargeAccess

[Thos True via EV]

In my experience of installing EVSE locations over the past several years,
I have found the following to be most common. A dedicated (meaning that the
20 Amp breaker serves only the one outlet) 120 volt, 20 Amp receptacle
(usually spec grade or higher) for level for the L1. For L2, a 230 volt, 50
Amp circuit with a Clipper Creek EVSE or equivalent (many of these can be
set up with a 30 Amp option, but to avoid the need to upsize the circuit
later, I recommend installing with #6 wires and a 50 Amp 2 pole circuit
breaker, but always follow the manufacturer's instructions, as it will be
your defense when dealing with inspectors and insurance people.)
In my opinion, Clipper seems to offer a very robust product at a reasonable
price. And the tech support is good when needed.
If you do not have enough room in your electrical panel for the added
circuits, then it is usually best to have a sub panel installed for this
purpose. I usually offer customers this option, and suggest the idea of
adding out door outlets fed by this box for holiday light use as well,
reducing the typical overloading of circuits that often happens at such
times.

-Tom

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Hoegberg via EV  wrote:

>
>
> 
> > Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 14:02:10 -0800
> > To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Updated: Outdoor home EVSE: Installing External
> ChargeAccess
> > From: ev@lists.evdl.org
> >
> > Mike,
> > L1 is only 110V as fas as I know,
> > so 240V 50A is more than most L2 can sustain and definitely L2.
> > I think many countries do not have L1 where the household supply is 230V
> > (delivered as 3-phase 400V to reduce copper usage by 1/3 since
> > the "Neutral" return only needs to be the same gauge as of each of the
> > phases, since the phases partially cancel each other,
>
> -Hm, I have almost forgotten about the situation in your place
>
> how do you do 1 phase motors efficient? I dont get it
> Say if you have a large motor? for example *over* 2kW
> that is about what a normal 1.5mm2 cable for 1phase
> can do here, over that level it really starts to be
> a bit crazy to use a 1 phase motor here
>
> BTW
> I think here (Sweden) the maximum "unbalanced" *feed in*
> power at 1 of the phases(=230V) is about 3500 W, after that
> it is "illegal" / not allowed by the powercompany to install.
> And about 4600W allowed unbalanced power in Germany
> (feed in = for example grid tied solar, or the steamengine :-)
>
>
>
> But what if you need to connect your 40 kW windmill at
> your 1phase house ? that would demand insane cables
> and crazy currents at the very low voltage us-system.
>
> And do you still *always* use only 1 wire(phase) systems
> instead of 3 , even if it is rotating stuff you need in the endpoint?
> (like motors or generators)
>
> what if you get a bigger async motor, how to turn that efficient if
> there is no rotating field between the normal L1,L2,L3 at the terminals?
> :-)
> Do you use inverters for your big motors/generators to generate the
> 3phases?
>
>
>
>
> > which is similar to the common US "two phase" system that saves 1/4 of
> > the copper as also here the Neutral is the same gauge as the 2 phase
> > wires instead of double the surface.
>
> -Sometimes it is just 3 of the powerwires +shield(connected to
> earth/ground)
> and sometimes it is no shield. (+neutral +protective earth)
>
> Because if you have no 230V-stuff (1phase&neutral = 230V) at
> the end of the 400Vac motor cable, then you probably dont need the neutral
> anyway
>
>
>
>
>
> > The standard household outlets in Europe are 230V 16A which means that
> > they can deliver about 3kW continuously
>
> - Almost correct, I think
>
> The old standard is called Schuko, se pictures
> http://www.internationalconfig.com/icc6.asp?item=70141
> that translate to "safety-plug", I guess.. and I remember reading
> that it is not always specified to be continuous used at max load.
> i think it is 6hour at 16A. but did not find that now,
> So about 3600W resistive load.
>
> Also some have 1phase blueplug=230V outdoors, a 16Amp Europlug.
> it is similar to the normal industrial 3phase "redplugs", red =400V
> ("IEC 60309" , but they are 16A @ 6h rating.  but it is more robust,
>have lock, & IP44 if they are mounted to face downwards)
>
>  -But of course it is only ok with 16A per phase if you
>  have copper enough and then fuses for this.
> 16Amp needs the fat cables of 2.5mm2 inside
> the walls to be correct. 1.5mm2 will get hot..
>
> Normal households plugs here have 1.5 mm2 and 10Amp fuses
> So that is enough for about 2.3kW resistive per group and
> 1 phase plug(s) = 230V = and we use neutral for return.
>
>
>
> (I assume it CAN be ok / legal to install a wall-charger at
> "400Vac from 2 phases", then we use no neutral
> as I think 400 Volt also is the voltage between 2 phases,
> in that way you get even more power(4kw?)
> out from 2pcs of 10A 1.5mm2wires :-)
> and if we have 16A 2-phase I think it wil be:

Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Thos True via EV]

Yes I tend to agree that buying a used Leaf is a great solution for most of
us (I did the 3 year lease), it is also a great experience to build your
own project. I have been part of several of these as well over the past 2
decades. I have always liked the prospects of truck conversions. Mostly
because they are more useful, but also because they are already designed
for additional weight. I also think that conversions have that added "cool
factor" when combined with a classic vehicle. (Wouldn't you agree Al?)

-Tom

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:23 AM, via EV  wrote:

> Bobby,  Some how I didn't send the photo?
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Bobby Keeland via EV" 
> To: "ev" 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:40:12 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
>
> I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
> as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
> my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
> also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
> recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
> vehicle to EV?
>
> Bob Keeland
> Forest Dynamics
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Bob,

Build you own electric vehicle by Bob Brant. It is available at Amazon and
on Kindle. It gives excellent pointers, even if some of the info is dated.
The beauty of electric vehicles is that typically, each of the basic
components can be changed or updated with little regard to the others
(motor, controller, batteries). Yes, it is wise to do your best to match
these up for maximum benefit, but many of us have gone against that wisdom
and done surprisingly well. It is a fledgling enterprise after all and it
seems that no one knows all.

-Tom

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV 
wrote:

> I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
> as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
> my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
> also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
> recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
> vehicle to EV?
>
> Bob Keeland
> Forest Dynamics
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf. 2,600 original miles.

[Thos True via EV]

Sounds like a reasonable deal. Of course it depends on a number of
variables such as the year, model (S, SE, etc Options)), miles, battery
condition, and accident history.
-Tom

On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
wrote:

>
> I got a used Leaf for 14k 0 down & 0% for 60 months. First payment & money
> out of pocket is in February.  It is pristine.  Did I do good?  Lawrence
> Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Coal in Your Stocking

[Thos True via EV]

As did the relatively easy conversion to heating oil based furnaces. Many
oil distributors started as coal and kerosene
delivery businesses.

-Tom

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 5:00 AM, ralph bagwell via EV 
wrote:

> Piped natural gas helped end much coal use
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 9:19 PM, lektwik via EV  wrote:
>
> > EVDL Folks...
> >
> > I debated whether to tag this as OT or not. Could be considered
> political I
> > suppose if you _must_ separate an interest in EVs from conscious
> > stewardship of the environment. To me, it couldn't be more -on topic-.
> >
> > Yes, I just pulled the following quote from another thread for use here-
> >
> >
> > Lee Hart wrote:
> > >Once upon a time, everyone burned coal in factories, businesses, and
> homes
> > for heating and cooking. City air quality was often atrocious. There were
> > even some epidemics and mass deaths as a result.
> >
> > I remember my grandparents using coal, at least into the late 1950's. But
> > somehow, it all stopped rather suddenly. I was too young to know why or
> how
> > this was achieved.
> >
> > What caused the sudden change? And, could that same effect happen again,
> to
> > bring us to a "tipping point" so encourage a rapid change from coal and
> oil
> > to cleaner technologies?<
> > 
> >
> >
> > Reading this made me think about the great EV-related stories Lee has
> > written over the years. This seems like a good start on an outline for
> the
> > next great Lee Hart story! :-)
> >
> > Being the Holiday Season, it is always time to bring these classics to
> the
> > folks that may not have had the pleasure of reading them before.
> >
> > A Christmas Car, By Lee Hart
> > http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html
> >
> > And... It took me a while to find this one-
> >
> > How The Grinch Sold Green-ness, by Lee A. Hart
> > http://www.davesevs.com/grinch.htm
> >
> > More here-
> > http://www.evdl.org/lib/index.html#ifun
> >
> >
> > Happy New Year!
> > Roy LeMeur
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> >
> >
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Re: [EVDL] Last call for LeSled

[Thos True via EV]

Hi All,

Having been in this "trade" for many years now, I have found this to be an
all too common fate for many EV projects.
I personally have close to a dozen EVs that are waiting to see new
batteries, but are otherwise in perfect or near perfect running condition.
The lead technology of the past century just didn't do the job (it might
have worked out better without the anti-EV presidency and the "great
recession" period that followed).
It is my opinion that we are now seeing a time where employment is
returning to comfortable levels and lithium type battery technology has
reached a price point where these projects can once again see daylight.
Another great option is to donate or loan your projects to the Historic
Electric Vehicle Foundation for display at their museum in Kingman,
Arizona. These vehicles do not have to have batteries to be displayed. They
just need to look good!

-Tom True

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 7:12 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> IMO your asking price is more than reasonable for this conversion.  You've
> put a lot of work into it and it shows.  It would be unthinkable to either
> junk it or de-convert it.
>
> I'd love to take it off your hands, but if I bring home any more EV
> projects
> (or projects of just about any kind) I'll be sleeping in the doghouse.  :-\
>
> Somebody, please give this EV a good home!
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] DIY EV air conditioning?

[Thos True via EV]

I recall seeing a few seat covers over the past couple of decades that used
the 12v plug in the do both heating and cooling. most were less than $250,
if I recall.

-Tom

On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:

> So, I can imagine all sorts of ways that one might run air conditioning in
> an electric vehicle, but I'm sure others have actually tried and done
> different ways and likely figured out the best general approach.
>
> Any of those others reading these words and care to point me in a good
> direction?
>
> This'll be starting from scratch in a vehicle that never had air
> conditioning in the first place but for which both factory and aftermarket
> air conditioning systems are available that run off of a pulley on the ICE
> engine.
>
> Thanks,
>
> b&
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla S trip

[Thos True via EV]

Me too!n Would love to hear more details about that part of the trip. Those
are the kind of details that make these posts relevant!

-Tom

On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 9:11 AM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> I'm curious about the "running out" case.  Were you testing limits?  Was a
> supercharger broken?  How did you resolve getting a charge?
>
> Peri
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Willie2 via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Sent: 24-May-15 9:09:02 AM
> Subject: [EVDL] Tesla S trip
>
>  There is probably little interest here, but I offer the following anyway.
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/102434734002949174273/posts/p/pub
>>
>> Spread out over the previous ~3 weeks are photos and comments on my trip
>> to Colorado and Arizona.  Highlights are:
>> 1) wonderful motorcycle museum in Kansas
>> 2) SuperCharger trouble in Perry OK
>> 3) a couple of days of snow in Golden
>> 4) running completely out of juice 1.5 miles short of Shamrock
>> Trip was made almost entirely on SuperCharger energy.  Exceptions were a
>> day or so of 120v charging at an Apache Junction hotel and a brief charge
>> at a Tesla 60 amp charge station at a hotel in Payson AZ.
>> ~4600 miles
>>
>> -- ONWARD!  Through the fog!
>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] article: World’s first 1 megawatt all-electric race car to compete at Pikes Peak

[Thos True via EV]

Yes Roger,

We did re-purpose 3 of the Megawatt's motors in the Silver bullet, which
went on to set 8 consecutive world records in one voltage class. This set
up was also the impetus for the rule of setting a record in one voltage
class per Nedra event (We set a new record in 3 voltage classes in one day,
and we were about to try for a 4th when it was decided had done enough).

Best regards,

Tom



On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Roger Stockton via EV 
wrote:

> Ben Goren wrote:
>
> > Sorry -- I was referring to them seem to really be building a real race
> > car, not attempting to verify their claims to bragging rights. The
> > megawatt bit, honestly, didn't even register
> >
> > b&
> >
> > On Apr 2, 2015, at 6:15 PM, Ben Apollonio via EV 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Really?  I was pretty sure the title of "first megawatt all-electric
> > race car" went to the Maniac Mazda over a decade ago...
> > >
> > > -Ben
>
> I'm not sure if Maniac Mazda satisfied the 'megawatt' bit, however, Bob
> Boyd's 'Megawatt Monster' dragster should have satisfied both the
> 'megawatt' and 'all-electric race car' bits, and this (as well as Maniac
> Mazda) were well over a decade ago.
>
> I didn't find specs on the Megawatt monster in a quick search (the car's
> tranny failed at what I believe to be its first real outing, and Bob's
> health failed shortly afterward such that the car's drivetrain was parted
> out; the Silver Bullet (IIRC) ended up with one of its two triplets of
> motors).
>
> It seems these pictures I took at the Woodburn drags in '99 are still
> online though.  You can clearly see the 6 motors, 3 1200-amp DC
> controllers, and part of the pack of Johnson Controls Inspira AGMs:
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
> It appears that the present incarnation of Maniac Mazda at the same time
> sported 4 1200-amp DCP controllers, so perhaps it was indeed capable of
> 'megawatt' level operation:
>
> 
>
> 
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
> ___
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
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>


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Re: [EVDL] postal delivery

[Thos True via EV]

Might be an idea to talk with some of these carriers to determine the range
needed for the rural routes. I suspect that many of them travel less than
50 miles per day, which would make a Leaf the perfect vehicle (Bonus point:
As I understand it, it can be ordered with right hand drive, as it is
classified as a world car)
-Tom

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 6:43 AM, Thos True  wrote:

> In the rural areas of western Washington that I grew up in, it was not
> uncommon to see the mail delivery being done with a personal vehicle. The
> carrier was paid a vehicle stipend, so the more fuel efficient the vehicle,
> the better for them. I remember more than one using a VW bug back in the
> 70's.
> -Tom
>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 8:26 AM, K O via EV  wrote:
>
>> My postal carrier would sure switch! He always delivers the mail to me
>> when I am working on my EV so he can see the progress..beats taking the
>> stairs too!Ian Wright may be better placed to offer a free truck as that is
>> what his new company is building.. He was an early Tesla designer, built
>> the Wrightspeed, with a T-zero motor if i recall correctly.
>> BTW I blew my DC-DC converter of 12 years+, a Zivan, Any endorsements for
>> current market products out there? Willing to test your product in
>> development = I will be showing at this year 10th anniversary Makers Faire
>> in San Mateo,CA seeya,KO
>>
>> I don't shop where I can't charge.
>>
>>
>> Excellent idea Lee - I can see it now. Postperson enters Tesla Showroom
>> and says
>> 'I drive a Tesla Mail Carrier for work, now I want the Model S for play.'
>>
>> Rush
>> www.TucsonEV.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 15:04:00 -0600
>> From: Lee Hart via EV 
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucksbe
>> Electric?
>> Message-ID: <550b39c0.1090...@earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> 
>>
>> They might not "hook" the mail carriers themselves. They're not likely
>> to be rich enough to afford one.
>>
>> But I *can* see using the model S ust to get the mail carriers to be
>> enthusiastic supporters of EVs. After all, they get to drive a sports
>> car instead of a truck!
>>
>> Then Tesla can sell customized EV "mail trucks" to the Post Office for
>> some inflated price, to get back all the money they spent on the free
>> samples.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves.
>> -- George Matthew Adams
>> --
>> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
>



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Re: [EVDL] postal delivery

[Thos True via EV]

In the rural areas of western Washington that I grew up in, it was not
uncommon to see the mail delivery being done with a personal vehicle. The
carrier was paid a vehicle stipend, so the more fuel efficient the vehicle,
the better for them. I remember more than one using a VW bug back in the
70's.
-Tom

On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 8:26 AM, K O via EV  wrote:

> My postal carrier would sure switch! He always delivers the mail to me
> when I am working on my EV so he can see the progress..beats taking the
> stairs too!Ian Wright may be better placed to offer a free truck as that is
> what his new company is building.. He was an early Tesla designer, built
> the Wrightspeed, with a T-zero motor if i recall correctly.
> BTW I blew my DC-DC converter of 12 years+, a Zivan, Any endorsements for
> current market products out there? Willing to test your product in
> development = I will be showing at this year 10th anniversary Makers Faire
> in San Mateo,CA seeya,KO
>
> I don't shop where I can't charge.
>
>
> Excellent idea Lee - I can see it now. Postperson enters Tesla Showroom
> and says
> 'I drive a Tesla Mail Carrier for work, now I want the Model S for play.'
>
> Rush
> www.TucsonEV.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 15:04:00 -0600
> From: Lee Hart via EV 
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] [SPAM?] EVLN: Will replacement USPS mail-trucksbe
> Electric?
> Message-ID: <550b39c0.1090...@earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
>
> They might not "hook" the mail carriers themselves. They're not likely
> to be rich enough to afford one.
>
> But I *can* see using the model S ust to get the mail carriers to be
> enthusiastic supporters of EVs. After all, they get to drive a sports
> car instead of a truck!
>
> Then Tesla can sell customized EV "mail trucks" to the Post Office for
> some inflated price, to get back all the money they spent on the free
> samples.
>
>
>
> --
> We cannot waste time. We can only waste ourselves.
> -- George Matthew Adams
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Insurance Woes

[Thos True via EV]

I've had great success with Allstate. For my conversions, it usually
becomes a "stated value" policy, with the premiums based on replacement
value. They generally do not have an issue with alternative fuels, since
the policy is based on the value of the vehicle.

-Tom
On Mar 10, 2015 11:37 AM, "Bill Dennis via EV"  wrote:

> I got rid of my Geo Metro EV and purchased a 1974 Saab Sonett that was
> originaly converted to electric by Walter Kern, of Saab Quantum fame, back
> in the 1980's.  I'm swapping the lead-acid batteries for lithium, plus
> updating some of the electronics.  But my old insurance company, SafeCo,
> has
> declined to insure the Saab, even though they'd been insuring my Geo EV for
> 8 years.  My insurance agent is unable to find anyone here in Utah that
> will
> insure it.  I even called Haggerty myself, but they said they don't insure
> electric vehicles.  So I need help.  Can anyone point me in the right
> direction?  All I really need is liability.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
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Re: [EVDL] Help! - Double motor failure!

[Thos True via EV]

While I agree that the use of an ammeter could be useful, it is difficult
to see the difference between now and what the draw was before the problems
surfaced. What is the connection to the mechanical drive? Did something
shift out of alignment? Is there a mechanical brake that has somehow become
cocked or otherwise jammed?
Another area that has caused problems in the past for us has been the brush
spring holders. If these get too warm, they can become weak, and eventually
fail, reducing the connection, creating more heat, less torque, then more
heat and even less torque until it fireballs.
In my experience, the motor or brush assembly are rarely the initial cause,
just the victim.

On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 9:49 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 22 Feb 2015 at 7:41, Thos True via EV wrote:
>
> > This leads me to think that there is a new problem with
> > the drive function, creating a large amount of drag.
>
> That was my thought too.  But he says he can't find anything binding in the
> shop.  I wonder if snow or ice is somehow getting into a drive component,
> or
> maybe causing a brake to not properly release, when he's using the cart.
> That's why I suggested a good realtime ammeter to keep an eye on things.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Help! - Double motor failure!

[Thos True via EV]

Perhaps we should go back to the basics here...Dan tells us that everything
worked fine for 2 years (seasons), then he burned up 2 motors, the 2nd one
almost immediately. This leads me to think that there is a new problem with
the drive function, creating a large amount of drag. I would be looking for
a locked up brake (or in this case of a seized bearing), that might cause
of this.
As for the idea of breaking in the new brushes, I agree that it is
essential. We always ran each motor for at least 12 hours on a 12V battery
before putting it under full voltage loads. In direct drive cases, this
meant pulling the motor and doing it on the bench.

Just my 2 watts worth,
Tom

On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 7:13 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> On 21 Feb 2015 at 21:09, Dan Baker via EV wrote:
>
> > I still have some to do's like getting some thermal monitoring
> > in place for both motors and some ammeter monitoring like a Cycle
> Analyst.
>
> Will a CA handle that kind of current?  I thought it was for e-bike level
> currents.  Or can you put a bigger shunt on it, maybe a 10x or 100x?
>
> How about something old-school and rock solid like this?
>
> http://www.kta-ev.com/Westberg_Ammeter_A2C6_30_p/wes-a2c6-30.htm
>
> Requires a shunt :
>
> http://www.kta-ev.com/Deltec_Shunt_500A_50mV_p/mkb-500-50.htm
>
> No endorsement implied, that's just who had nice pictures and descriptions.
> Warning : KTA is in the process of closing their business.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Know your public EVSE: Turning over a new Leaf...

[Thos True via EV]

Of course, he could also use the built in locating function that is part of
the car wings system that is an integral part of every Leaf. It will list
all nearby charging locations that have been uploaded to their system.
On Dec 13, 2014 4:09 PM, "Cor van de Water via EV" 
wrote:

> More likely, Lee will be helped by mounting the AVCON EVSE removable
> with an RV plug (which he already has in his garage) and not search for
> L2 charging stations, but look for camping sites.
> Also, people who have an electric dryer or stove usually use either
> 14-30 or 14-50 so an extension cable that can survive 30 Amps and bring
> the dryer/stove outlet to near the driveway, where he can plug in his
> EVSE,
> will more likely get him back on the road (after visiting someone that
> does
> have this type of outlet and does not mind him "refueling" at their
> home).
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of brucedp5 via EV
> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 3:27 PM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Subject: [EVDL] Know your public EVSE: Turning over a new Leaf...
>
>
> Both EVSE finder plugshare and the afdc sites can be set to show only
> what
> you are after.
> Now that Lee had stated his 2013 Leaf has a 6kW on-board charger
> (shortening
> his full recharge time ~3.5hrs), knowing where the public 6kW L2 EVSE
> are
> could be useful. For just the L2 EVSE see
> http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/results?location=56377&filte
> red=true&fuel=ELEC&owner=all&payment=all&ev_level2=true&radius=true&radi
> us_miles=55
>
> On the above page, I set the filter to only display L2 EVSE within a 55
> mile
> radius (should be good even when in cold conditions). While it did show
> dealerships having L2, access to theirs might be nil, so here are the
> others
> (always call first to verify operation, cost, and where on the
> property):
>
> Electric stations near 56377
> Excluding private stations
> Within 55 miles ...
>
> Goodwill
> 13605 80th Cir N
> Maple Grove, MN 55369
> Phone: 763-416-3681
> Fuel: Electric
> Electric charging types: Level 2
> Distance: 54 mi
>
> Dynamic Sealing Technologies
> 13829 Jay St NW
> Andover, MN 55304
> Phone: 763-786-3758
> Fuel: Electric
> Electric charging types: Level 2
> Distance: 54 mi
>
> Goodwill
> 100 19th Ave SW
> Willmar, MN 56201
> Phone: 320-214-9238
> Fuel: Electric
> Electric charging types: Level 2
> Distance: 55 mi
>
> GRE CORP CAMPUS
> 12300 Elm Creek Blvd N
> Maple Grove, MN 55369
> Phone: 888-758-4389
> Fuel: Electric
> Electric charging types: Level 2
> Distance: 55 mi
>
> Something I also recommend, is to get experience using your L3 charging
> ability. There is no L3 CHAdeMO where Lee is located. The nearest L3 to
> Lee
> are Tesla's which are incompatible with his Leaf EV's L3 CHAdeMO port
> (funny
> how Tesla drivers can buy an adapter to use CHAdeMO, but there aren't
> any
> Tesla EVSE to CHAdeMO adapters).
>
> Some people might think, well the lack of public L3 and L2 EVSE is OK,
> because most of the time they won't need it. But, I recommend that
> drivers
> know where their L2 and L3 EVSE are, and make a single effort to try
> them
> out once just so they can gain the experience on using them. Think of it
> like having a new workshop tool. You would want to try it at least once
> before putting it away for when you might want/need to use it.
>
> Though the nearest L3 CHAdeMO to Lee is about 200 miles away at an IA
> Nissan
> dealership, it would be wise to use the above EV finder sites at least
> twice
> a year to update yourself on what is available as more EVSE is being
> installed all the time, and you would not know of them unless you make
> an
> effort to occasionally look.
>
> Lastly, plugshare.com originally was created to 'share' private EVSE.
> So,
> until more public EVSE is installed in Lee's area, access to a network
> of
> private L2 EVSE could be useful. To access those private L2 EVSE, you
> join
> plugshare for free, which gives you access to see them, and then contact
> the
> owners, asking what are their conditions, terms, and other details.
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Turning-ove
> r-a-new-Leaf-tp4673019p4673033.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] OT: status> the newswires are changing, (L1 CORRECTION!)

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Ben,
Just wondering how much does it cost you to charge your EV? My typical cost
in power to recharge my Leaf daily was less than $15/ month or about 50
cents per day/charge, averaging about 60 miles per day 6 days per week.
And to the others here, regarding 120 volt plug ins everywhere...this has
long been one of my arguments for EVs. As in which scenario would receive a
warmer welcome. A stranger at your door with an extension cord and a $5
bill asking to plug in, or a stranger at your door with gas can, and siphon
hose with a $5 bill asking to buy some gas out of your car? The point being
that you can usually find a residence or business that will let you plug in
if you are in need.

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:

> On Nov 24, 2014, at 7:16 PM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:
>
> > I predict []
>
> Thinking on this a bit more...we're also likely to see some interesting
> social dynamics emerge. Imagine a bunch of people, all EV owners, visit a
> fellow EV owner. Access to the charger(s) would quickly wind up being
> similar to access to the bathroom.
>
> Just as we went from a time when nobody had indoor plumbing to today when
> few houses are sold with fewer than three toilets...we can look forward to
> a similar transition with EV charging stations.
>
> ...and who pays for the charge? It costs a lot more to recharge an EV
> after a cross-country trip to Grandma for Thanksgiving than it does to
> flush the toilet. Will Grandma's pension be enough to pay for all the kids
> coming home to visit?
>
> I'm sure we'll figure it out...but it may well get interesting in the mean
> time
>
> Cheers,
>
> b&
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Re: [EVDL] OT: Alive, back-home after-surgery, and working on getting well ...

[Thos True via EV]

Glad to hear that all went better than expected! Welcome back, and I for
one am anxiously awaiting the new posts.

-Tom

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 9:18 PM, Tom Keenan via EV 
wrote:

> Glad everything went well, and welcome back!
>
> Tom Keenan
>
> > On Oct 10, 2014, at 1:35 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > [ref
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/afk-tp4671942.html
> > afk ...
> > ]
> >
> > While this post does have a whiff of EV stuff to it, it is mostly OT
> about
> > my medical stuff (so, lets try to not post OT medical responses if
> possible
> > - and if you are not interested, please delete this message now ... ).
> >
> > I had checked into the VA Hospital yesterday morning, and my big/large
> mouth
> > had no problem taking in the breathing tube down my windpipe which my
> > anesthesiologist was quite concerned about after seeing on the CAT scan
> that
> > my left side thyroid goiter (growth) was pushing on my wind pipe,
> narrowing
> > it and pushing it to the side (I did not notice any of this as I was in
> no
> > pain, but all the VA doctors were hot to yank the whole thyroid, but got
> > them to back off a bit and only take the left side which was causing the
> > issue).
> >
> > I am really glad I do not remember most of the beginning before they
> knocked
> > me out. Though my memory isn't as sharp as when I was younger, I can
> still
> > replay my life experiences a little too well (a good memory did have its
> > upside, when I could remember/visualize in my mind my homework pages I
> had
> > done the night before when taking a test that day - it let me be an A
> > student).
> >
> > All in all, I awoke doing pretty well, with all the doctors and staff
> > looking at me amazed at how large the goiter was (?). I had a large
> bandage
> > across my throat
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Re: [EVDL] afk ...

[Thos True via EV]

Bruce,
I too hope that you recover quickly. I enjoy the posts that you generate. I
also hope that you are grooming someone to help with the continuation of
these posts during any future absences.
I am certain that I speak for many viewers of the EVDL when I say that your
posts are among the most relevant and interesting.
Again, I wish you the best of luck with your procedure.
-Tom

On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:

> For my own selfish reasons, I hope your recovery is much faster than
> anticipated!
>
> b&
>
> On Oct 3, 2014, at 10:05 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I had queued this message for 10/8 my last day, but it might be better to
> > post it now even though we all expect the best for the scheduled evdl
> server
> > downtime/changes.
> >
> > Because of the scheduled down time
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVDL-downtime-tp4671941.html
> > I may be posting some additional newswire items to offset the downtime
> > (there may be more than the usual two news posts per day I usually do).
> Also
> > ...
> >
> >
> > On Oct 8, I will be going under the surgeon's knife to hopefully follow
> my
> > request to only remove the left half of my thyroid that has a goiter
> > (growth). Afterward, I will be in a VA hospital bed (which does not allow
> > public WiFi, Internet access), recovering before being released to return
> > home. So, to some it may seem like I have done another disappearing act/
> > falling off the face of the planet (when really I will be going through
> > Internet withdrawals).
> >
> > While everyone involved keeps saying all will be well & the likelihood of
> > problems are minimal, there is a chance that I may become a 'bricked'
> > salvaged Tesla that has no hope of being re-enabled.
> >
> > If so, at least I got to have a great time and see all the EVs at last
> > month's world record EVent
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-507-EVs-In-One-Place-New-Guinness-World-Record-eaasv-org-NDEW-tp4671722.html
> >
> > If all goes well, after being sent home and recovering a bit from an
> extra
> > smile on my throat, I will be posting what newswires I have queued, and
> also
> > playing newswire catch-up for the x-number of the days the VA kept me afk
> > (incommunicado).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > . 
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@- @'---(= Get Amp'd
> > Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
> > Electric Vehicle List News
> > brucedp.150m.com
> > *Originator of the above ASCII art
> > % Renewable Energy for your Electric Vehicle %
> > (Near Silicon Valley, south of SF, CA USA)
> > ...
> > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=afk
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/afk-tp4671942.html
> > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> > ___
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >
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Re: [EVDL] BiPolar NiMH (was: Kawasaki Concept J 3wheel GIGACELL powered EV)

[Thos True via EV]

Hey Bill,
Do you think that the stall seen in NiMH technology has anything to do with
the shelving of the production of batteries that occurred after the patent
was bought up (and the interest in said technology now that the patent has
expired)?
On Sep 9, 2014 1:40 PM, "Bill Dube via EV"  wrote:

> NiMH has been largely eclipsed by Li-Ion.
> Li-Ion has quite a bit more specific energy and specific power.
> They each have their specific issues, but in the end, the specific power
> (and price) is what we are all after.
>
> Can you even find a new NiMH cordless tool anymore? All the new cordless
> tools have gone to Li-Ion.
>
> Folks have been trying for a bi-polar battery for quite some time. The
> costs remain quite high for the gains in capacity. Nilar says it best
> "Bipolar design has historically been the Holy Grail of battery technology,
> but has historically been difficult to realize."
> http://www.nilar.com/technology/
>
> The edge seals are always the difficult part. Still is.
>
> Bill D.
>
>
> At 01:26 PM 9/9/2014, you wrote:
>
>> On 9 Sep 2014 at 3:20, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>>
>> > The Concept J is supposed to be powered by the Kawasaki's proprietary
>> > GIGACELL® ... nickel-metal hydride battery composed of individual cells
>> > that are connected in series at their cell walls, with the front and
>> > rear surfaces becoming the positive and negative terminals, forming a
>> > bipolar structure.
>>
>> Interesting that they might use NiMH.  This battery tech has largely been
>> forgotten in the rush to lithium. However, it's proven very reliable in
>> the
>> old first generation Toyota RAV4-EVs.  Many of them have gone well over
>> 100,000 miles on the original battery.
>>
>> The problem has been the obstinate refusal of the NiMH patent holder
>> Cobasys
>> (originally Ovonics) to license BEV-size modules (anything over 10ah).
>> Perhaps the Kawasaki design evades the Ovonics patents by virtue of their
>> very different design.  Or perhaps BASF, who IIRC now owns those patents,
>> is
>> less restrictive.
>>
>> Anyone know what might be going on here?  I'd love to see NiMH as a viable
>> and affordable EV alternative to lithium.  OTOH the word "proprietary" is
>> generally not a good sign in this context.
>>
>> PS - is what they describe here a true bipolar battery?  I'm not so
>> sure.  I
>> had the impression that in a bipolar battery the negative electrode of one
>> cell and the positive electrode of the next one in series were THE SAME
>> PIECE OF MATERIAL, not just two electrodes butted or welded together.
>> Heck,
>> if butted electrodes defined a bipolar battery, then the battery in my
>> flashlight is bipolar, no?
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Menacing Copper-Theives> A 'Cut & Steal' EVSE Scourge

[Thos True via EV]

When we were first debating the L2 charging concepts over 5 years ago, I
repeatedly questioned the concept of having a cord connected charging base,
rather than a basic plug in one where that vehicle owner supplies their own
cord. I suggested this due to our experiences with vandalism to the public
charging stations that we had in the '90's.
It could easily be argued that the thieves would do better selling the
complete cord with the J1772 still attached than they would ever do with a
20' cord!

Just my 2 watts worth!


On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Peter C. Thompson via EV  wrote:

> This is one of the driving use cases for wireless charging.  All of the
> cables will be secure from (most) prying  hands and would-be thieves.
>
> CCTV is not very good at preventing petty theft - all it takes is a hoodie
> to foil the camera.
> Adding a locked-down cable will prevent the cable from being stolen while
> the car is not charging, but again, doesn't stop someone from taking the
> cable when plugged into the car.  (didn't say they were smart did I?  :)
> ).  It does add another step for the driver to deal with tho.
> Booby-trapping the cable is an insurance/liability nightmare (fun to
> imagine, I agree).
>
> In addition, you can't add enough shielding to make it theft-proof -
> especially if you want normal people to be able to lift up the cable.  I'm
> sure Arnie would have no problem, but what about Grannie?
>
> In any case, as long as surplus copper can bring in some cash, there will
> always be cable theft.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
>
>
> On 8/31/14, 4:09 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
>
>> On 31 Aug 2014 at 8:06, Geoffrey Pullinger via EV wrote:
>>
>>If you wrap a wire around the cable and hook it up to the fence
>>> charger I'm guessing any would be copper thieves will be somewhat
>>> discouraged by a large jolt.
>>>
>> "Ma, I wanna plug the car in.  Can I plezzze?"
>>
>> "Sure, Bobby.  I'll get the presents for Grandma out while y ..."
>>
>> "Zzzap! Zzzot!"
>>
>> Kids aside, I can imagine a thief - from jail - suing the charger's
>> company
>> for his injuries from such a scheme.
>>
>> A few possible solutions for this problem :
>>
>> One is for all chargers (EVSEs) to have the cables locked behind a solid
>> steel plate door that only opens with a smart card.  Downside is the
>> additional complexity and inconvenience.
>>
>> Another is for the charging cable to go with the vehicle, aand hope the
>> bad
>> guys don't start breaking into EVs to steal their charging cables.  Again
>> the driver has to bear additional hassles because of the bad guys.
>>
>> Finally, this may be a case where having a couple of prominently placed
>> CCTV
>> security cameras might discourage crooks.  Here the disadvantages are
>> additional installation expense, and (IMO) a potential loss of drivers'
>> privacy.
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>> EVDL Administrator
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
>> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [EVDL] jeep review posted

[Thos True via EV]

Nicely done Ben!
-Tom True


On Sat, Aug 23, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Ben Jarrett via EV 
wrote:

>
>
> Hi All,
>
> FYI, I just posted a video review of my electric CJ7.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmQacVCwTEU&feature=youtu.be
>
> -ben
> www.evalbum.com/4001
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Plugins are the most patriotic car decision you can make

[Thos True via EV]

Bruce,
I could not agree with you more! I too have long maintained that driving an
EV is one of the most patriotic sustained actions that an individual can
perform. My dad had a bumper sticker on his EV conversion that proclaimed
it as an "anti-terrorist vehicle". I still have that Geo Metro conversion
(it is in need of a new set of batteries, of course).
Hope that you had a good 4th.
-Tom


On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 3:15 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

>
>
> Show American pride> make the switch to a plug-in
>
> UK should buy more British cars> Sunderland built electric Leaf
>
> http://www.torquenews.com/2250/most-patriotic-car-decision-you-can-make
> The most patriotic car decision you can make
> By Luke Ottaway  2014-07-04
>
> This 4th of July we should recognize the best way to show our American
> pride
> when buying a car: making the switch to a plug-in electric vehicle.
>
> For as long as automobiles have been around in significant numbers, they
> have been running on gasoline refined from crude oil. Throughout the
> history
> of the American automobile, with the exception of the Arab oil embargo in
> 1973, nobody has really cared where the fuel for their cars ultimately came
> from.
>
> That has finally started to change in the 21st century. The terrorist
> attacks on September 11, 2001, rising instability in major oil-producing
> countries and regions of the world, and fears of climate change have begun
> to change the way Americans think about the oil that fuels their cars.
>
> And now we finally have a viable alternative to oil for powering our
> vehicles: electricity, the truly job-creating made-in-America energy
> source.
>
> Foreign fuel
> Though U.S. imported oil share has been falling in recent years, it still
> makes up a significant portion of demand. According to the Energy
> Information Administration, in 2012 the United States imported 40% of its
> petroleum consumption.
>
> Last year the United States imported 7.7 million barrels of oil each day,
> largely for use as transportation fuel; each barrel of crude oil is good
> for
> about 19 gallons of gasoline.
>
> The United States is by far the largest importer of oil in the world,
> spending $427 billion on imports last year (via TIME). China is a distant
> second with about $270 billion in 2013.
>
> Though the U.S. gets most of its imported oil from Canada, in 2013 about 2
> million barrels per day or 25.8% of imports come from Saudi Arabia, Iraq,
> and Kuwait. The rest of the list of our largest oil suppliers reads like a
> who’s who of unstable nations, some of whom really don’t like us:
> Venezuela,
> Colombia, Nigeria, and Angola.
>
> The American alternative
> The best way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil is to drive cars that
> use less gasoline. Better yet, why not drive a car that uses no gasoline
> but
> instead runs on electricity produced by coal, natural gas, nuclear,
> hydroelectric, wind and solar power, all of which is produced right here at
> home?
>
> Many consumers are still hesitant about electric vehicles, and that is
> understandable. They are a relatively new technology that is unfamiliar to
> most. But there is a good answer to almost any doubt to be had about
> electric vehicles.
>
> Electric cars are too expensive, you might say. The response: Nissan’s LEAF
> in particular is a very affordable car, particularly with government
> incentives that will encourage EV adoption for the next several years until
> costs drop to a level more competitive with conventional counterparts. And
> don’t forget, you will only spend about $500 per year on electricity to
> power your electric vehicle compared to $1,500-$2,000 or more for a
> gasoline
> vehicle.
>
> But electric vehicles have limited range and I need my vehicle to be
> capable
> of long road trips, you might say. Then Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota have a
> plug-in hybrid they’d like to sell you! These electric vehicles can travel
> 11 to 40 miles on electricity for your daily commute, and can switch to
> gasoline backup for the occasional long trip.
>
> I live in an apartment complex and don’t have a place to plug in, you might
> say. This is a trickier problem that the EV industry is doing its best to
> solve – you can always check if your employer provides charging at the
> workplace, and if not you have the right to request that they do so. The
> same goes for the apartment complex.
>
> The choice is yours
> No, electric vehicles are not perfect yet. There is still much improvement
> to be made, but they are here now and can fulfill your driving needs
> without
> supporting [petro-dictatorship] in hostile nations. Oh, and they’re great
> to
> drive. Just ask any EV owner – they’re the most enthusiastic advocates out
> there.
>
> In the spirit of Independence Day, be a true patriot and drive a car that
> says, “I run on the power of America.”
> [© torquenews.com]
> ...
> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/petro-dictatorship
> petro-dictatorship
>
>
>
> http://thelincoln

Re: [EVDL] Suitcase EV.

[Thos True via EV]

They just featured a race on the Tonight show a couple of weeks ago using
the electric ice chests. Kinda lets you know that the EV concept has made
it into the mainstream when you see things like that.
-Tom


On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:37 AM, Mike Shipway via EV 
wrote:

> I've seen someone picking up ice at a campground (in Pennsylvania) on a
> motorized ice chest, like the one sold here:
> http://www.getscooters.com/electric-cooler-scooter-x-50-300.html
>
> Mike-
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 12:37 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>
> > If he can pack his clothes in that bag and drive it to the airport, he'll
> > have something.  Otherwise, it's just a gimmick, and not a very
> comfortable
> > looking ride at that.
> >
> > As for me, I'm still waiting for George Jetson's air-car-in-a-briefcase -
> > electric, of course.  ;-)
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> > reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [EVDL] Suitcase EV.

[Thos True via EV]

Roderick Wilde drew up a basic design for a similar concept in the late
'90s after traveling through airports trying to keep up with the busy Nedra
schedule of those days. We were doing a lot of modifications of the Zappy
scooters at that time! FT was neck deep in these designs come to think of
it...


On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Bruce EVangel Parmenter via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> The idea of a Suitcase EV is new to me either.
>
> I remember hearing talk, way-back years ago before Otmar moved north up
> to OR, about how Bob Schneeveis (one of our EV-Gods) was building his
> idea of an Electric-motorcycle that would fold up into the size of a
> suitcase (making it easy to take on a plane-trip, etc.).
>
> When I caught up with Bob at one of the Silicon Valley Rallies EAA
> eaasv.org and asked him about it, he had already moved on to two other
> e-motorcycle versions (the guy is so creative, he comes up with so many
> cool EVs).
>
> One image does not even come close to showing all the many EVs he had
> made, but below is one image showing him, with his modified Sparrow EV
> towing his full-sized walking robot that pulls a chariot people can ride
> in
>
> http://bikeroute.com/NationalBicycleGreenwayNews/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/IMG_1814.jpg
>
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
> -
> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014, at 01:57 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> > [Interesting], but I think I have seen similar "inventions" before, ...
> -
>
> --
> http://www.fastmail.fm - Or how I learned to stop worrying and
>   love email again
>
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Re: [EVDL] Talked with Bruce

[Thos True via EV]

By the way, I noticed an early AM set of posts of gleaned articles by
Bruce. Great to have you back! (loved the article about SEVA!).

-Tom


On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Thos True  wrote:

> Bruce,
>
> Great to hear the report. It is a sad reality that we often plan more
> projects than we can ever complete. I have been working on reducing /
> grading the backlog of projects that both myself and my Dad started over
> the past 10 years. It seems like there is never enough time to get it all
> done. I do hope that the heart rate gets resolved soon though (that can't
> be good!).
> Get plenty of rest and take care of those fluids!
>
> Best regards,
> Tom
>
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV 
> wrote:
>
>> Welcome back Bruce!  We missed you.
>>
>> On May 12, 2014 2:20:38 AM MDT, brucedp5 via EV 
>> wrote:
>> >Please see
>> >http://brucedp.150m.com/chf/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >View this message in context:
>> >
>> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Talked-with-Bruce-tp4669443p4669490.html
>> >Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
>> >Nabble.com.
>> >___
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>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
> merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
>



-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: [EVDL] Talked with Bruce

[Thos True via EV]

Bruce,

Great to hear the report. It is a sad reality that we often plan more
projects than we can ever complete. I have been working on reducing /
grading the backlog of projects that both myself and my Dad started over
the past 10 years. It seems like there is never enough time to get it all
done. I do hope that the heart rate gets resolved soon though (that can't
be good!).
Get plenty of rest and take care of those fluids!

Best regards,
Tom


On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV wrote:

> Welcome back Bruce!  We missed you.
>
> On May 12, 2014 2:20:38 AM MDT, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> >Please see
> >http://brucedp.150m.com/chf/
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >View this message in context:
> >
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Talked-with-Bruce-tp4669443p4669490.html
> >Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at
> >Nabble.com.
> >___
> >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> >For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
> >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
> ___
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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Re: [EVDL] Drag racing icon Garlits sets electric vehicle record.

[Thos True via EV]

How AWESOME is that! Setting records at 82 years of age...makes you wonder
what a 41 year old could do, huh?
Congrats to the team!
-Tom


On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Lawrence Rhodes
wrote:

>  Drag racing icon Garlits sets electric-vehicle record
> Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" electrifyingti...@hotmail.com
>  cleannewworld
> Date: Tue May 6, 2014 7:38 am ((PDT))
>
> Not sure which of these url's will work.
>
>
> <
> http://www.nhra.com/story/story.aspx?F_y=2014&F_m=5&F_d=2&CustomURL=garlits-electric-vehicle-record&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
> >&F_m=5&F_d=2&CustomURL=garlits-electric-vehicle-record&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
>
>
> http://www.nhra.com/(X(1)S(dw1aej552zkhkl55ywqrve3z))/story/story.aspx?F_y=2014&F_m=5&F_d=2&CustomURL=garlits-electric-vehicle-record&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
>
>
>
> Drag racing icon Garlits sets electric-vehicle record
>
>
> Friday, May 02, 2014
>
>
> by Phil Burgess, National DRAGSTER Editor
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> >
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>


-- 
Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the glass is
merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
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