[FairfieldLife] Persecution As A Cult Technique (was: ...married with 2 daughters)

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... 
wrote:

 I read a fascinating book about how grudges are maintained 
 in the Mideast from generation to generation. The perception 
 of ongoing offense is critical for maintaining the emotional 
 intensity and for maintaining victim status to maintain a 
 grudge.  It becomes entwined with cultural and personal 
 identity so that great lengths are taken to find evidence.  
 Even to the point of trying to connect things that to an 
 outside observer seem like a ridiculous stretch. 

Exactly. I had a long conversation about this
with...uh...saner people last week, in a dif-
ferent context. That context was polyamory. A
reporter interviewing some of my friends asked
if they had chosen their lifestyle just to get
into people's faces and suck attention. They
were shocked by the question, which inspired 
my interest in the thread.

In the polyamory community -- as in cults and
religious groups -- I have long seen one factor
being used to build camaraderie and a sense
of group mind or identification with the cult
and its beliefs -- PERSECUTION.

It's a tactic that is as old as time. If you are
a member of a group that builds its entire image
on how special its members are, especially 
compared to the normal or lesser or less
evolved people around them, nothing spells
special as much as being PERSECUTED.

To the point that even *imagining* the persecution
is enough to fuel the fires of specialness. Thus
if a cult's beliefs or practices are ridiculed or
criticized, it's never individuals making fun of
individuals -- its a systematic form of hate crime,
a form of religious persecution.

The TBs of whatever group is being criticized glom
onto the criticism and *inflate* it however they
can, making it into more than it really was, and
for two purposes -- to portray themselves as *victims*
and to portray the critics as *aggressors* or 
*attackers* or people with evil intent.

The whole cult *act* in these ongoing attempts to
make themselves special by being criticized is to
project onto the critics an intent that the cultists
claim is obvious, but as you say no one else can see
*at all*. Examples would be someone making a joke 
about a female political candidate and the wannabee
victim claiming that the joke was intentionally*
an example of misogyny or hatred of *all* women.

See the pitch in the example above? It's an appeal
to the *group*. The wannabee victim is trying to enlist
the lurkers into feeling as victimized as he/she feels.
Because if they can do that, they have recruited 
someone into the cult of specialness they are trying
to protect and -- truth be told -- proselytize.

IMO ongoing grudges are ALWAYS an exercise in self
importance and the attempt by someone with low self
esteem to feel special. And the *audience* for long
term grudges is always those whom the grudge-holder
is trying to recruit into the cult of Oh-aren't-I-
special-for-having-discerned-this-truth-and-you-can-
be-just-as-special-by-agreeing-with-me.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[cardemaister]

 
 I wasn't on drugs, if that's what you're implying.
 Neither were the thousands of others who exper-
 ienced the same things I did. Were we hallucinating
 in the sense that we saw and experienced things that
 a video camera wouldn't have captured? Possibly. But
 that does not mean we didn't experience what we did.
 WHAT it was I experienced I cannot speak to. What it
 meant I cannot speak to. All I can speak to is that
 I, personally, experienced it.

There was in Grand Duchy of Finland (then part of Russia)
a strange feller called Kuikka-Koponen (Abel Koponen, 1833 - 1890).
It is told that some people saw him get *inside* a horse
through its arsehole. He was claimed to have learned his tricks
from an Indian faqir in St. Petersburg after saving the
chap's life. 


 
 Can you say the same about your theory of Maharishi
 being the master of all the Patanjali siddhis?
 
 Thought not.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote:

  I wasn't on drugs, if that's what you're implying.
  Neither were the thousands of others who exper-
  ienced the same things I did. Were we hallucinating
  in the sense that we saw and experienced things that
  a video camera wouldn't have captured? Possibly. But
  that does not mean we didn't experience what we did.
  WHAT it was I experienced I cannot speak to. What it
  meant I cannot speak to. All I can speak to is that
  I, personally, experienced it.
 
 There was in Grand Duchy of Finland (then part of Russia)
 a strange feller called Kuikka-Koponen (Abel Koponen, 1833 - 1890).
 It is told that some people saw him get *inside* a horse
 through its arsehole. He was claimed to have learned his tricks
 from an Indian faqir in St. Petersburg after saving the
 chap's life. 

Now THERE is a siddhi the TM movement should market. :-)

Can't you just see it now? People arriving in Vlodrop
from all over the world, a new dome for Horse Asshole
Diving being built, with a stable of *really* unhappy-
looking horses outside. 

One thing for sure. You wouldn't need no steenkin'
dome badges. You could recognize your fellow Horse
Asshole Divers merely from the stink.  :-)

I'd be most curious as to how the TMO would spin it
to make Horse Asshole Diving all about creating world 
peace. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote:


  Nablusoss wrote:
   It will happen, perhaps. For example the tape from Seelisberg where the 
   videoguy in the bus outside Kulm who had the tape running and was waiting 
   for Maharishi to come. He did, slowly from the celing above and settled 
   on the couch. 
   Sooner or later it will be shown, I suppose. :-)
  
  
  Nabby,
  The story was most likely a spicy ingredient of the hype program that 
  surrounded the introduction of the Sidhis, and nothing more. I'm surprised 
  the story has not yet faded from your memory.  Have you, Nabby, seen this 
  tape, or have you only heard of it?   Would you mind sharing more of your 
  understanding about this occasion ?
 
 No I won't because you have already made up your mind. Why then should I 
 bother to give you any details ?



Ooh go on, I haven't made up my mind. I'd love to have proof
that everything we think we know is wrong.

I have heard a lot of these stories from the TMO but all 
lack any evidence. I think something gets passed around 
every once in a while just to keep the enthusiasm up. I 
remember the predictions for heavenly mountain particulary
well, how an ancient Indian legend fortold that there 
would be white men in white clothes levitating round the 
mountain top. The reality turned out to be somewhat more 
mundane, a golf course now isn't it?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Irmeli]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride 
bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:


  My
 friend will shake his/her head and ask where did this come from but that's
 the way my unconscious works.  Reshift, reshift, reshift, getting my
 understanding of things better digested.

I think that is a great quality to have. Mature understanding takes shape often 
this way. Letting old stuff to come on the surface, looking at it from new 
angles, reshifting it.Questioning old understanding and explanations.
 
 
 I remember the first governor who returned to my area.  She came to sort of
 teach at a residence course.  She was totally spaced out.  She acted like
 she was the Queen of Sheeba. She exuded the attitude that if she shit like
 the rest of us, it came out smelling like the finest perfume.  I don't know
 if that's the attitude that people learned on governor training or if that's
 an attitude she developed when she returned home and there was all of this
 mystique.  All sorts of powers were attributed to the Queen, that she could
 read our thoughts, see our pasts and futures.  She said nothing to dispel
 this mystique.
 

I have similar memories. The governers apparently got brainwashed this way 
during their training.
 
I remember an episode from my first rounding together with these new governers 
and siddhas. We meditators got really treated like shit. We were not allowed to 
dine at the same table as the siddhas, actually not even in the same part of 
the dining room, because of our rough energies. They had made an own 
compartment for us meditators.

However that all flopped, because some of the siddhas, who were our close 
friends felt uncomfortable with this arrangement, and decided to come to eat in 
our compartment.

I suspect these types of idiotic practices came directly from Maharishi.He 
tried to create a caste system also into his organization. Even the low aspects 
of his cultural conditioning had started to surface. Earlier he had tried to at 
least superficially to adapt TM to the western values.

The overall impact however was that truly many left TM-movement, including both 
meditators and siddhas.

We westerners cannot easily accept a caste system. And this is not because we 
are so disoriented, and are energetically SO rough. It is because we have 
culturally evolved above accepting to categorize people in rigid castes or 
classes only because an authority figure says so. 

Irmeli 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Irmeli]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:

 Your ideas in this discussion are well intentioned.  But there must be a 
 reason why MMY insisted on practicing these siddhi techniques.  



I don't doubt this. Certainly there was a reason for it. An important one is 
that it brought an active component to meditation, and many people felt they 
got more of their meditation practices. All of that is fine.

The severe problem was how it got implemented. The tools and tactics used 
belong to the category of fanatic fundamentalism. This implies to me that 
Maharishi was in his personal structural development still at 
mythical-fundamentalist level due to his cultural background.

Majority of the westerners are already beyond that level, although they may 
have some pockets in their personality with fundamentalist structures or below. 
This explains why so many westerners have fallen prey to eastern fundamentalist 
dogmas. However as a big part of their personality is actually already beyond 
those behavioral patterns and illusions that belong to the picture, sooner or 
later they have become out from their regression to that dream reality.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Irmeli]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote:

 There was in Grand Duchy of Finland (then part of Russia)
 a strange feller called Kuikka-Koponen (Abel Koponen, 1833 - 1890).
 It is told that some people saw him get *inside* a horse
 through its arsehole. He was claimed to have learned his tricks
 from an Indian faqir in St. Petersburg after saving the
 chap's life. 
 
 

And I have occasionally managed to become invisible. 

The first such episod happened in the 80's,when an important TM governer had 
come to our city to give a talk.
 
We all sat around a big table. I did not quite like the talk, that was pretty 
long also. I felt like leaving, but I thought that would be very unpolite as we 
were not too many people there listening to him.

I kept on sitting there, but observed how I started to become invisible to 
people around me. As this had lasted for a while, I stood up and left the room. 
No one observed that I left the place.
And no one afterwards asked why did you leave.

Of course physically I did not become invisible, but somehow I managed to 
vanish from the consciousness of the people around me.

This has spontaneously happened later also. And I have never practiced any 
siddhi technique.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[do.rflex]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote:
 
   I wasn't on drugs, if that's what you're implying.
   Neither were the thousands of others who exper-
   ienced the same things I did. Were we hallucinating
   in the sense that we saw and experienced things that
   a video camera wouldn't have captured? Possibly. But
   that does not mean we didn't experience what we did.
   WHAT it was I experienced I cannot speak to. What it
   meant I cannot speak to. All I can speak to is that
   I, personally, experienced it.
  
  There was in Grand Duchy of Finland (then part of Russia)
  a strange feller called Kuikka-Koponen (Abel Koponen, 1833 - 1890).
  It is told that some people saw him get *inside* a horse
  through its arsehole. He was claimed to have learned his tricks
  from an Indian faqir in St. Petersburg after saving the
  chap's life. 
 
 Now THERE is a siddhi the TM movement should market. :-)
 
 Can't you just see it now? People arriving in Vlodrop
 from all over the world, a new dome for Horse Asshole
 Diving being built, with a stable of *really* unhappy-
 looking horses outside. 
 
 One thing for sure. You wouldn't need no steenkin'
 dome badges. You could recognize your fellow Horse
 Asshole Divers merely from the stink.  :-)
 
 I'd be most curious as to how the TMO would spin it
 to make Horse Asshole Diving all about creating world 
 peace.



...and the need for billion$$$ from the True Believer suckers to finance it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli irmeli.matts...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote:
 
  There was in Grand Duchy of Finland (then part of Russia)
  a strange feller called Kuikka-Koponen (Abel Koponen, 1833 - 1890).
  It is told that some people saw him get *inside* a horse
  through its arsehole. He was claimed to have learned his tricks
  from an Indian faqir in St. Petersburg after saving the
  chap's life. 
  
  
 
 And I have occasionally managed to become invisible. 
 
 The first such episod happened in the 80's,when an important TM governer had 
 come to our city to give a talk.
  
 We all sat around a big table. I did not quite like the talk, that was pretty 
 long also. I felt like leaving, but I thought that would be very unpolite as 
 we were not too many people there listening to him.
 
 I kept on sitting there, but observed how I started to become invisible to 
 people around me. As this had lasted for a while, I stood up and left the 
 room. No one observed that I left the place.
 And no one afterwards asked why did you leave.
 
 Of course physically I did not become invisible, but somehow I managed to 
 vanish from the consciousness of the people around me.
 
 This has spontaneously happened later also. And I have never practiced any 
 siddhi technique.

[FairfieldLife] Christian Right Republican Health Care

[do.rflex]

 [Piss off, you socialist leper! ] 
http://hankwatchestelevision.com/unleashed/?attachment_id=560


Image link: http://hankwatchestelevision.com/unleashed/?p=561

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[raunchydog]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
   
No one in this forum has even entertained the possibility 
that MMY himself has experienced all of the Patanjali 
siddhis, including levitation.  
   
   No one on this forum is that insane.
   
   Oh. 
   
   Never mind.
  
  You have mentioned that you have observed levitation 
  many times from your other teachers.  
 
 Teacher. One. Frederick Lenz - Rama.
 
  And, you believed it.  
 
 No, I experienced it. As did literally thousands
 of others. Rama used to do this shit in *public
 talks* at the L.A. Convention Center or Carnegie
 Hall. As to what it was that we all experienced,
 I cannot say; all I can say is that we experienced
 it. Personally. No rumors. No innuendo like yours.
 Experience. Vs. Theory or blind faith. I know it's
 difficult for a TM True Believer to distinguish
 the two, but one has to point out the difference
 from time to time.
 
  But if someone suggested MMY could do the same, you 
  would denounce it.  Why?
 
 I didn't denounce. I laughed at it. Did you never
 *meet* Maharishi? Were you *asleep* for forty years
 of his marketing campaigns? If Maharishi found a
 cure for *hangnails* he would have been demonstrating
 it on national TV, labeling it Maharishi(TM) Hangnail
 Yagya, and selling it for thousands of dollars.  :-)
 
  Tell us the truth.  Were you hallucinating when you saw 
  the levitation?
 
 I wasn't on drugs, if that's what you're implying.
 Neither were the thousands of others who exper-
 ienced the same things I did. Were we hallucinating
 in the sense that we saw and experienced things that
 a video camera wouldn't have captured? Possibly. But
 that does not mean we didn't experience what we did.
 WHAT it was I experienced I cannot speak to. What it
 meant I cannot speak to. All I can speak to is that
 I, personally, experienced it.
 

Too bad all those thousands of people who experienced Rama levitating 
pre-mobile phone days didn't upload a video of him hovering in mid-air to 
youtube. Would it then have put to rest whether Barry experienced or saw 
Rama levitating or would he simply argue the cell phone experienced levitation? 
No matter what he's sticking to his story. He has dug himself in quite deeply 
that there's a distinction between seeing levitation and disbelieving your 
lying eyes, and experiencing your lying eyes. It's a flimsy distinction without 
much difference but I'm guessing it shields him from his critics and allows him 
to maintain his cynicism lest he be accused of being spit a true believer. A 
man of heart, a man of courage would say, I saw Rama levitating and take his 
lumps.

 Can you say the same about your theory of Maharishi
 being the master of all the Patanjali siddhis?
 
 Thought not.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  I wasn't on drugs, if that's what you're implying.
  Neither were the thousands of others who exper-
  ienced the same things I did. Were we hallucinating
  in the sense that we saw and experienced things that
  a video camera wouldn't have captured? Possibly. But
  that does not mean we didn't experience what we did.
  WHAT it was I experienced I cannot speak to. What it
  meant I cannot speak to. All I can speak to is that
  I, personally, experienced it.
 
 Too bad all those thousands of people who experienced Rama 
 levitating pre-mobile phone days didn't upload a video of 
 him hovering in mid-air to youtube. Would it then have put 
 to rest whether Barry experienced or saw Rama levitating 
 or would he simply argue the cell phone experienced levitation? 

Actually, it would have settled nothing. If
seeing auras were a real thing and you saw
someone's aura but your cell phone did not,
would it disprove your experience? Would it
invalidate what you saw?

I'm replying because you're in way over your
head here, and don't understand the distinction
I am making. 

 A man of heart, a man of courage would say, I saw Rama 
 levitating and take his lumps.

A man of heart wouldn't be as honest as I am
being with you. Yes, I saw it. But does that mean 
it was there? You really don't get the distinction.

One of the other things I saw -- repeatedly, in
the company of hundreds of others who saw exactly
the same thing -- was being out in the desert at
night with Rama and watch him move the stars 
around. Whole constellations would shift their
positions and change into other designs. It was
WAY neat.

But did it *happen*? On a physical level? Of course
not. If it had, astronomers all over the world would
have gone bull goose loony. 

But we all saw it. It happened FOR US. 

Can we say, I saw the stars move around and LEAVE
it at that? 

I think not. I think one has to tell the whole truth
about subjective experiences like this and say right
up front that they *were* subjective experiences. 

You seem to be more of the school that believes that
your subjective experience defines reality. I give
reality more credit than that.

[FairfieldLife] Re: High Times in California

[shukra69]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote:

 Even if pot is legalized in California, the Feds are still going to enforce 
 its laws. 

In practical terms that wouldn't be as there is no federal police force of 
sufficient size.

 So, Californians who use pot could still be subject to federal law violation.  
I don't believe secession is the answer either.
 
 I'm surprised that the facility in Oakland has been able to operate without 
 federal interference so far.  I believe they're going to get busted any time 
 soon.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
 
  Pot legalization will most likely appear on the next ballot for the next 
  California election.  I predict it will pass.  Oakland is already being 
  called the Amsterdam of California.  A new medical marijuana facility 
  just opened by the Oakland airport.
  
  http://rawstory.com/2010/01/pot-legalization-cali-ballot/
  http://topnews.us/content/210454-igrow-opens-assist-marijuana-cultivation
  
  The state is strapped for cash and April 1st it will be broke again.  It 
  is eying taxes on marijuana as a possible revenue.  In order to do that 
  either federal pot laws also have to be overturned or California might 
  have to secede.  Hmm, the latter might not be a bad idea as it is said 
  if Californians paid what they now pay to the fed in taxes to the state 
  it would be out of debt in no time.
  
  Put that in your chillum and smoke it.
 

[FairfieldLife] January, The Secret Wife and 2 Kids

[Doug]

The TM Maharaja Secret wife and 2 Kids


Hagelin's Announcement
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/238789

Wynne's Annoucement
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239107

Bevan's Announcement
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239740
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239198

Commentary:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/238933

The TM King in Paris:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239327

Perspective
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239460
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239461
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239564

TM movement dynamic:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239631

Maharishi with this:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/239707


These posts scratch the surface.





 Just as a comment, if this story is true it lends
 some credence to the theory that it might have been
 Tony's idea to hide his wife, and that the person 
 he was trying to hide her *from* was Maharishi, not
 the rest of the TM movement. If this is what a 
 jealous Maharishi does when one of his boys hooks
 up with a woman, I'd hide my girlfriend from him, 
 too.
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[WillyTex]

   Tell us the truth.  Were you hallucinating 
   when you saw the levitation?
  
RD:
 Too bad all those thousands of people who 
 experienced Rama levitating pre-mobile phone 
 days didn't upload a video of him hovering in 
 mid-air...

Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands 
of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama
followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in
Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs
is mentioned over forty times. Go figure.

Even Mr. Lenz himself doesn't claim this siddhi
in his book, 'Surfing the Himalayas'. Apparently
it's much more fun to use a snowboard than to
levitate. Floating face down in the water with
a dog collar around his neck seems to be Fred's
favorite magical show.

Hovering in mid-air isn't even listed on Rama's 
own website where it mentions that Rama is a 
'Black Belt'. 

I'd suppose, if thousands of people saw Rama do
hovering or turning rooms into golden light, at 
least more than one would have reported it by 
now. It's not mentioned by any of the former
Lenz students who went over to Franklin Jones.

Apparently some people are very much prone to 
suggestion. Turq is a case in point. If he had 
not posted so much misinformation about the 
Maharishi, he would be more believable. 

But, since he has fibbed so much, who would want 
to believe him now about the levitation siddhi?

Titles of interest:

'Take Me for a Ride
Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult 
By Mark Laxer
Outer Rim Press, 1993

'Surfing the Himalayas'
A Spiritual Adventure'
By Frederick Lenz
St. Martin's Griffin, 1996 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
  Snip
  
It is neither yours nor Barry's best work here IMO.
   
   Says Curtis, judging the quality of our work.
  
  Yup, imagine that.
  
   And as noted, you judge the exchanges on a lot of
   other things you couldn't possibly evaluate if you
   hadn't been following them.
  
  Obviously I followed it enough to form the opinion.
 
 We disagree.
 
  I haven't slavishly followed every detail, I don't need to.
  Your deal with each other is nothing if not predictable.
  
  snip
  
   I would not have a malicious liar for a friend, and I
   don't have much respect for anyone who would.
  
  Right, I got that, but you sure hide it well.  The friend
  of my enemy is my enemy, works great in the Mid East too.
 
 Beg your pardon? Which malicious liars do you see me
 being friendly with here?
 
  Snip
  
   Curtis, as you well know, this goes way back with you
   and me, to shortly after you joined us here.
  
  That's quite a long term grudge you are nursing there Judy.
 
 Grudge is a weasel word in this context. Barry
 likes to use it too. But of course it doesn't apply
 when the offense is a continuing one.


Judy, I have read all the recent posts between you and Curtis.  I think Curtis 
was genuinely trying to tell you that he enjoys your posts, enjoys Barry's 
posts, and no longer reads the posts between the 2 of you.  He was being nice 
and also genuinely meant what he said.  So why did you turn on him in this way? 

 If Curtis's remark about not enjoying or any longer reading the posts between 
you and Barry was the cause, let me clue you in:  I would bet that NO ONE reads 
them.  Having read the first volley of them years ago, I can tell you that I 
too avoid them like the plague.  They leave a bad taste in the mouth,  all seem 
identical, and are a waste of my time - kind of like listening to the endless, 
repetitive bickering of the coupe in the apartment above yours.  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[WillyTex]

Curtis, as you well know, this goes way back 
with you and me, to shortly after you joined 
us here.
   
   That's quite a long term grudge you are nursing 
   there Judy.
  
  Grudge is a weasel word in this context. Barry
  likes to use it too. But of course it doesn't apply
  when the offense is a continuing one.
 
Curtis:
 I read a fascinating book about how grudges are 
 maintained in the Mideast from generation to 
 generation...

It just amazing how you guys can post weasel your 
way out of a fair debate.

It's been my experience with Judy that she very
seldom holds a grudge. I've been a respondent on
TM groups for over ten years, and from my experience,
Judy almost always addresses the issues at hand -
I've never known her to hold a grudge, and she's no
great admirer of mine, that's fer sure. 

In fact, she once posted that she goes out of her 
way to address each thread as a distinct instance 
of opinion. 

The problem is, that almost every single post by 
Curtis, Hugo, Vaj, Sal, or Turq contains a new big 
fib. Curtis just confirmed this by insinuating that 
Judy holds a grudge over generations! Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[cardemaister]

Seeing colors in a black-and-white pic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0T3z_mEpdkfeature=PlayListp=BB2029B883654D65index=1

http://tinyurl.com/yg6hdsw

Watch at about 7:00 onwards..

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  snip[
  
  Isn't it convenient how this psychobabble excuses
  your behavior?
 
 You made up the shame spin on me not arguing with people
 who thought you were out of line for giving me shit when
 I came here.  The tribe spoke and you got voted off. 
 Deal with it.

We could go back and look at that, Curtis, if you like.

What actually happened was that I was trying to *avoid*
a hassle with you, told you to lay off, and you went
right ahead anyway. Folks jumped on me for continuing
to try to provoke you when in fact it was just the
opposite. You knew that, and you let me take what you
knew was a bad rap.

I just went back and reviewed what happened--it was
in early May 2006--to make sure I was describing it
accurately. You might want to do the same.

No, come to think of it, I'm sure you won't want to.

  And victimhood is yet another weasel term (also
  one Barry uses, quelle surprise).
 
 Naming things with labels doesn't make them less useful
 as descriptive terms for describing behavior.

Inappropriate labels are very useful for those who
use them to promote their agenda, yes indeed.

If you use the labels grudge and victimhood to
describe someone's response to your bad behavior,
that shifts the blame onto them. Very neat.

  You are
 playing up your victim hood, it is a constant theme.

No, Curtis, it's about *ethics*, not victimhood.

  Of course, we don't ever see Barry (or you) 
  complaining about being victimized.
  
  horselaugh
 
 Because that is not my filter.  I don't allow myself to
 be victimized.

Oh, please, Curtis. Your whole mommy/daddy riff
was a whine about how you were being victimized by
my quoting you in a post to Barry. That you put a
humorous spin on it doesn't change what you were
communicating.

I could dig up plenty of other instances of your
complaining about how you're being treated. And you
just got done complaining about Nabby calling you
an idiot, remember?

Barry whines constantly about how I'm stalking
him and how others beat up on him, attributing this
to his being a TM critic (as opposed to the real
reason, which is that he's a crappy person all
round). He just left a long post to that effect this
morning, for pete's sake.

  You're quite right, Curtis, you aren't at your best
  when you're under fire.
 
 I don't enjoy your shame vibe.

So it's perfectly OK for you to send a shame vibe my
way by suggesting I was making you feel bad by
quoting you in a post to Barry, and by pinning the
grudge and victimhood labels on me, but it's not
OK for me to point out what you're doing, right?

 But as far as a putdown, that was lame.

Just referring to what you yourself said earlier:

I'm just glad you are both cool enough to communicate
with me without the scud missiles going off, since I
don't do my best work under that kind of fire.

  With or
 without horselaughs you are portraying yourself as a
 victim and I'm not buying it. It has become part of
 your identity now and challenging it meets with
 survival level push-back.

There's a difference, Curtis, between feeling that
one is a victim and portraying someone else as a
(would-be) victimizer. Victimhood is most definitely
*not* part of my identity; I have way too much self-
esteem for that. You're damn right I'm going to push
back at the accusation and point out that it's
designed to relieve you of any responsibility for your
behavior.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[raunchydog]

Barry fibbed about Rama levitating? Ya don't say. I guess if Barry says he 
experienced Rama levitating rather than he saw Rama levitating he thinks it 
gives him cover for lying. So, WillyTex, if no one other than Barry 
experienced Rama levitating, was he also lying that thousands of people also 
experienced Rama levitating? Pants on fire.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

 
 
Tell us the truth.  Were you hallucinating 
when you saw the levitation?
   
 RD:
  Too bad all those thousands of people who 
  experienced Rama levitating pre-mobile phone 
  days didn't upload a video of him hovering in 
  mid-air...
 
 Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands 
 of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama
 followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in
 Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs
 is mentioned over forty times. Go figure.
 
 Even Mr. Lenz himself doesn't claim this siddhi
 in his book, 'Surfing the Himalayas'. Apparently
 it's much more fun to use a snowboard than to
 levitate. Floating face down in the water with
 a dog collar around his neck seems to be Fred's
 favorite magical show.
 
 Hovering in mid-air isn't even listed on Rama's 
 own website where it mentions that Rama is a 
 'Black Belt'. 
 
 I'd suppose, if thousands of people saw Rama do
 hovering or turning rooms into golden light, at 
 least more than one would have reported it by 
 now. It's not mentioned by any of the former
 Lenz students who went over to Franklin Jones.
 
 Apparently some people are very much prone to 
 suggestion. Turq is a case in point. If he had 
 not posted so much misinformation about the 
 Maharishi, he would be more believable. 
 
 But, since he has fibbed so much, who would want 
 to believe him now about the levitation siddhi?
 
 Titles of interest:
 
 'Take Me for a Ride
 Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult 
 By Mark Laxer
 Outer Rim Press, 1993
 
 'Surfing the Himalayas'
 A Spiritual Adventure'
 By Frederick Lenz
 St. Martin's Griffin, 1996

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli irmeli.matts...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote:
 
  Your ideas in this discussion are well intentioned.  But there must be a 
  reason why MMY insisted on practicing these siddhi techniques.  
 
 
 
 I don't doubt this. Certainly there was a reason for it. An important one is 
 that it brought an active component to meditation, and many people felt they 
 got more of their meditation practices. All of that is fine.
 
 The severe problem was how it got implemented. The tools and tactics used 
 belong to the category of fanatic fundamentalism. This implies to me that 
 Maharishi was in his personal structural development still at 
 mythical-fundamentalist level due to his cultural background.

Whose model of development are you using?
 
 Majority of the westerners are already beyond that level, although they may 
 have some pockets in their personality with fundamentalist structures or 
 below. This explains why so many westerners have fallen prey to eastern 
 fundamentalist dogmas. However as a big part of their personality is actually 
 already beyond those behavioral patterns and illusions that belong to the 
 picture, sooner or later they have become out from their regression to that 
 dream reality.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

 
 
Tell us the truth.  Were you hallucinating 
when you saw the levitation?
   
 RD:
  Too bad all those thousands of people who 
  experienced Rama levitating pre-mobile phone 
  days didn't upload a video of him hovering in 
  mid-air...
 
 Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands 
 of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama
 followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in
 Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs
 is mentioned over forty times. Go figure.
 
 Even Mr. Lenz himself doesn't claim this siddhi
 in his book, 'Surfing the Himalayas'. Apparently
 it's much more fun to use a snowboard than to
 levitate. Floating face down in the water with
 a dog collar around his neck seems to be Fred's
 favorite magical show.
 
 Hovering in mid-air isn't even listed on Rama's 
 own website where it mentions that Rama is a 
 'Black Belt'. 
 
 I'd suppose, if thousands of people saw Rama do
 hovering or turning rooms into golden light, at 
 least more than one would have reported it by 
 now. It's not mentioned by any of the former
 Lenz students who went over to Franklin Jones.


Actually, I had a friend, a former TM teacher now deceased, who was a student 
of Rama's around the time Barry must have been there.  This friend also talked 
of seeing  Rama levitate on many occasions.  He also saw him move clouds around 
in an outside gathering and I think he said Rama could make himself invisible 
(not sure on this one).  This friend, Jack, did not know exactly how the 
levitation or other things occurred, but he was very certain he had seen them.  
As I recall, the outside events were in the desert, so it would have been 
pretty difficult to fix up the props of a magician.

The last time I saw Jack, perhaps a year before he died, he was still involved 
with Rama.  But he refused to hug me hello, did not even want to shake hands, 
and had some sort of compulsion about washing his hands several times during 
dinner.  I was never certain if those were Rama's rules or his own problems.

 Apparently some people are very much prone to 
 suggestion. Turq is a case in point. If he had 
 not posted so much misinformation about the 
 Maharishi, he would be more believable. 
 
 But, since he has fibbed so much, who would want 
 to believe him now about the levitation siddhi?
 
 Titles of interest:
 
 'Take Me for a Ride
 Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult 
 By Mark Laxer
 Outer Rim Press, 1993
 
 'Surfing the Himalayas'
 A Spiritual Adventure'
 By Frederick Lenz
 St. Martin's Griffin, 1996

[FairfieldLife] US Defense Spending In Context - Where does all the money go?

[do.rflex]

As far back as 9/10/2001: Rumsfeld says $2.3 TRILLION Missing from
Pentagon
Watch brief CBS video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU

= = =

from Matthew Yglesias

I've shown charts before showing how absurd the American defense
budget looks in context. Now a new chart making the same point, but with
slightly more up-to-date 2007 spending data
http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/policy/securityspending/articles/02260\
9_fy10_topline_global_defense_spending/ :

  [defensespendingcontext]
As you can see, not only is the United States spending well over double
the combined defense budgets of Russia and China, but America's
close allies constitute the bulk of the other big spenders. Indeed, if
you add all the European countries together, they spend about 50 percent
more than Russia and China combined.


http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/05/us-defense-spending-i\
n-context.php




Data from: Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation: 
http://snipurl.com/u8hhy  [www_armscontrolcenter_org]

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:

 Actually, I had a friend, a former TM teacher now deceased, 
 who was a student of Rama's around the time Barry must have 
 been there. This friend also talked of seeing Rama levitate 
 on many occasions. He also saw him move clouds around in an 
 outside gathering and I think he said Rama could make himself invisible (not 
 sure on this one). This friend, Jack...

Jack Kukulan. Knew him well. Very sweet 
fellow. I still have a little Ganesha
statue he gave me after one of his trips
to India. 

 ...did not know exactly how the levitation or other things 
 occurred, but he was very certain he had seen them. As I
 recall, the outside events were in the desert, so it would 
 have been pretty difficult to fix up the props of a magician.

Some of them took place not only in the
desert, but two feet away from me. A few
times I say Rama go invisible that close
to me, to the point where first I could
see the stars through the outline of his
body, and then even the outline faded.

I think he did this with me so often because
I was such an obvious cynic about it all. :-)
I would lean back and forth to change perspec-
tive, to see if the background I could see
through him changed perspective, too. He'd
always laugh when I did that, because it did.

 The last time I saw Jack, perhaps a year before he died, 
 he was still involved with Rama. But he refused to hug 
 me hello, did not even want to shake hands, and had some 
 sort of compulsion about washing his hands several times 
 during dinner. I was never certain if those were Rama's 
 rules or his own problems.

The not hugging people could possibly be a 
Rama thang, but not Jack's compulsive hand-
washing. I think that came from some of his
own baggage. 

He told me a great story once about having
a private dinner in Japan with Rama on one
of their trips together. Rama later repeated
the same story, as a kind of teaching device.
The dinner was at a VERY expensive restaurant,
and the height of luxury in Japan is to have 
that dinner in a private tatami room, just
the two of them.

Thing is, there were two fully-dressed geishas
with them there at all times. It was their job
to serve them new dishes, fill their sake or
tea cups when they got low, and do stuff like
that. Neither said a word the entire meal.

The thing that both Rama and Jack noticed about
the experience is that after a short while they
WEREN'T EVEN THERE. Their level of serving 
while being invisible was so impeccable that
the two men actually forgot that they were in
the room. It was only towards the end of the
dinner that they noticed it and recognized 
what the women were doing as the minor siddhi
it was.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:
snip
 Judy, I have read all the recent posts between you and
 Curtis.  I think Curtis was genuinely trying to tell
 you that he enjoys your posts, enjoys Barry's posts,
 and no longer reads the posts between the 2 of you.  He
 was being nice and also genuinely meant what he said.
 So why did you turn on him in this way?

Don't know how you managed to miss what set this off
if you've read all the recent posts. It was Curtis
complaining about my having quoted him in a post to 
Barry--not that I'd misrepresented what he had said,
but that he felt bad that I had referred to him at all.
That seemed to me like a very strange complaint; I've
never seen anyone else here make it about someone
quoting their posts.

You may also have missed that I told Curtis I don't
take it as much of a compliment that he enjoys my
posts when he says he also enjoys Barry's posts,
given my obviously very low opinion of the quality
of Barry's posts (not just those demonizing me, but
in general).

 If Curtis's remark about not enjoying or any longer
 reading the posts between you and Barry was the cause

No, that wasn't the cause. He's said that many times
before. My point was that if he doesn't read them, he
shouldn't be commenting on them at all, much less
judging them.

 let me clue you in: I would bet that NO ONE reads them.

I'm not sure that's true, but it's fine with me if it is.

 Having read the first volley of them years ago, I can
 tell you that I too avoid them like the plague.  They
 leave a bad taste in the mouth,  all seem identical,
 and are a waste of my time - kind of like listening to
 the endless, repetitive bickering of the coupe in the
 apartment above yours.

I can understand why you'd feel that way. On the other
hand, I'd suggest that anyone who was reasonably
objective and had the intestinal fortitude to follow
them with attention would not be likely to set up a
moral/ethical equivalence between Barry and me.

Same with the couple upstairs. That two people engage
in bickering does not automatically mean each is
equally at fault in the dispute.

Again, it's fine with me if you don't read what Barry
and I say about each other. It's not fine with me if
you judge the posts without reading them.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Irmeli]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:

 

 
 Whose model of development are you using?
  

I have for years now had keen interest in Ken Wilber's philosophy, and also 
other spiritual teacher's and scientists' thinking in those circles. I'm a 
member of Integral Spiritual Center, and have also relatively actively 
participated in discussions on Integral forums.

All people there agree on a broad line of certain developmental levels.  It 
explains a lot of the general patterns in our behavior.
Each level has its own typical patterns and even new emerging pathologies and 
diseases.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[raunchydog]

If Rama levitated in the desert, maybe it was a mirage. Is it possible to video 
a mirage? Your friend's hand washing thing sounds like OCD.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote:
 
  
  
 Tell us the truth.  Were you hallucinating 
 when you saw the levitation?

  RD:
   Too bad all those thousands of people who 
   experienced Rama levitating pre-mobile phone 
   days didn't upload a video of him hovering in 
   mid-air...
  
  Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands 
  of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama
  followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in
  Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs
  is mentioned over forty times. Go figure.
  
  Even Mr. Lenz himself doesn't claim this siddhi
  in his book, 'Surfing the Himalayas'. Apparently
  it's much more fun to use a snowboard than to
  levitate. Floating face down in the water with
  a dog collar around his neck seems to be Fred's
  favorite magical show.
  
  Hovering in mid-air isn't even listed on Rama's 
  own website where it mentions that Rama is a 
  'Black Belt'. 
  
  I'd suppose, if thousands of people saw Rama do
  hovering or turning rooms into golden light, at 
  least more than one would have reported it by 
  now. It's not mentioned by any of the former
  Lenz students who went over to Franklin Jones.
 
 
 Actually, I had a friend, a former TM teacher now deceased, who was a student 
 of Rama's around the time Barry must have been there.  This friend also 
 talked of seeing  Rama levitate on many occasions.  He also saw him move 
 clouds around in an outside gathering and I think he said Rama could make 
 himself invisible (not sure on this one).  This friend, Jack, did not know 
 exactly how the levitation or other things occurred, but he was very certain 
 he had seen them.  As I recall, the outside events were in the desert, so it 
 would have been pretty difficult to fix up the props of a magician.
 
 The last time I saw Jack, perhaps a year before he died, he was still 
 involved with Rama.  But he refused to hug me hello, did not even want to 
 shake hands, and had some sort of compulsion about washing his hands several 
 times during dinner.  I was never certain if those were Rama's rules or his 
 own problems.
 
  Apparently some people are very much prone to 
  suggestion. Turq is a case in point. If he had 
  not posted so much misinformation about the 
  Maharishi, he would be more believable. 
  
  But, since he has fibbed so much, who would want 
  to believe him now about the levitation siddhi?
  
  Titles of interest:
  
  'Take Me for a Ride
  Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult 
  By Mark Laxer
  Outer Rim Press, 1993
  
  'Surfing the Himalayas'
  A Spiritual Adventure'
  By Frederick Lenz
  St. Martin's Griffin, 1996
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:
snip
 I wasn't on drugs, if that's what you're implying.
 Neither were the thousands of others who exper-
 ienced the same things I did. Were we hallucinating
 in the sense that we saw and experienced things that
 a video camera wouldn't have captured? Possibly. But
 that does not mean we didn't experience what we did.
 WHAT it was I experienced I cannot speak to. What it
 meant I cannot speak to. All I can speak to is that
 I, personally, experienced it.
 
 Can you say the same about your theory of Maharishi
 being the master of all the Patanjali siddhis?
 
 Thought not.

So what are you suggesting, that MMY didn't have the
ability to make his followers, en masse, experience
him performing siddhis?

In other words, he could do it to individuals here
and there on rare occasions, just not to a crowd?

Could there be any other reason why there have been
no reports of such crowd experiences?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Persecution As A Cult Technique (was: ...married with 2 daughters)

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:
snip
 To the point that even *imagining* the persecution
 is enough to fuel the fires of specialness. Thus
 if a cult's beliefs or practices are ridiculed or
 criticized, it's never individuals making fun of
 individuals -- its a systematic form of hate crime,
 a form of religious persecution.

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Hatred is often conveyed via ridicule and malicious
humor.

snip
 The whole cult *act* in these ongoing attempts to
 make themselves special by being criticized is to
 project onto the critics an intent that the cultists
 claim is obvious, but as you say no one else can see
 *at all*. Examples would be someone making a joke 
 about a female political candidate and the wannabee
 victim claiming that the joke was intentionally*
 an example of misogyny or hatred of *all* women.

As I pointed out to Curtis, Barry often uses the
victim theme to excuse himself of responsibility
for his behavior.

In the case of misogyny, first it should be noted
that the term is not much used nowadays to mean hatred
of all women. More often, it's used to mean an attitude
well short of that, but involving more hostility and
fear than just your garden-variety sexism.

Second, there are jokes and jokes. It's entirely
possible to tell a joke about a female candidate that
isn't misogynistic. But when such a joke has a
distinctly misogynistic flavor, *and* the person
making the joke has a long history of misogynistic
commentary, it's hardly a matter of projecting
intent to characterize the joke as such.

Finally, as I also noted to Curtis, pointing out
the intent to victimize is not the same as feeling 
oneself to be a victim. Again, the claim that someone
is playing the victim is very often an attempt to
deflect blame for one's bad behavior onto its target.

snip
 IMO ongoing grudges are ALWAYS an exercise in self
 importance and the attempt by someone with low self
 esteem to feel special. And the *audience* for long
 term grudges is always those whom the grudge-holder
 is trying to recruit into the cult of Oh-aren't-I-
 special-for-having-discerned-this-truth-and-you-can-
 be-just-as-special-by-agreeing-with-me.

And of course, Barry could *never* be accused of
trying to recruit anybody into his Hate-Judy-and-
TMers-in-General cult by this means. Not even in
the post I'm responding to.

guffaw

[FairfieldLife] The Spiritual Path As FUN

[TurquoiseB]

I actually hate talking about all the flash that
happened around Rama. Especially here, because
people are so hungry for flash, and so jealous
of it actually happening for other people, as 
opposed to only reading about it, or hearing it
in other people's stories.

For me, looking back at the Rama trip, the thing
that made it the most interesting, and the reason
I hung onto it as long as I did, was not the flash;
it's that it was FUN.

Those of you who paid your dues in the TM movement
probably can empathize. How much of what we did 
for and around Maharishi was actually FUN? I have
a friend from the TM Daze who still cracks me up
from time to time when he uses a certain phrase.
I'll ask him how the movie was that he was so look-
ing forward to, and he'll occasionally say, It was
a real boatride.

I'll crack up, because I know *exactly* what he's
referring to. Maharishi would announce one of his
Lake Geneva full moon boatrides, and you'd get all
excited. Oh boy, a boatride. And then the boatride
would happen and you'd all be standing around, cold
and damp and shivering, waiting for the FUN to start.
Thing is, it rarely did. Maharishi would gaze out
at the moon reflecting on the water and we were 
kinda expected to stand there and watch him gazing
out at the moon reflected on the water and that was 
it. Big whoop.

But around Rama, things were FUN from time to time.
I mean, we'd go out on movie dates together. The
name of the movie and its showing time or the actual
theater were never announced. You were expected to
find it on your own somehow, using only your seeing.
In Los Angeles or New York, with hundreds of theaters
to choose from. And so you'd show up at the theater 
you thought was most likely, and 9 times out of 10 
there would be Rama and 200 other students in line. 
FUN.

Having private dinners at Windows On The World, or at 
Nirvana, the Indian restaurant overlooking Central Park. 
Having full-dress dinners and meetings at the Pierre, 
the men all in tuxes, the women in their finest evening 
gowns. Renting an entire club and having a private rave 
party, music provided by our own techno-fusion band Zazen. 
Going to a Tangerine Dream concert together. Flying to 
the Caribbean to go scuba diving. Touring the Louvre
together. FUN.

After years of the TM movement, it was refreshing to
be part of an organization in which not only were events
like these perceived to be part of the spiritual path,
FUN was perceived to be part of the spiritual path.

Thirteen years after I walked away from the trip because
it was no longer as FUN for me as it had been in the past,
what I look back upon with the most fondness and with
the most thanks for the spiritual lessons they taught 
me are not the moments of flash. They were the moments
of FUN.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas for all!

[WillyTex]

  It works the same way with your thoughts...
 
 Oh lawd! ROFLMAO! 

We know that for every action, there is an equal and
opposite reaction. That's one of the laws of physics.

'Karma' means action - natural law based on common 
sense - causation. All events spring from causes.

So, every action leads to consequences. 

The question is, do mental actions (thoughts) arise 
from causes or not, and if so what effect do they 
have on the cosmos?

If thoughts have physical properties, then causation
must operate on the conscious thinking level just 
like physical objects operate, based on physical 
laws. 

So, every thought leads to consequences.

That is, unless you think that thoughts are separate
from creation and things-in-themselves. If so, 
you've got a lot of explaining to do! 

Send in the thought police! 

  Every time you evacuate your bowels, you've done a
  'yagya', a sacrifice. You must sacrifice the turds 
  to the Turd God. You must give up the turds, you 
  can't keep them inside you forever.
  
  You act, but you do not control the fruits of your 
  actions. All human excrement always flows downstream. 
  Once released, you have no control over the effluent.
   
  So, it would be more ethical if you knew the real
  destination of your deposits and your used corn cobs 
  BEFORE you do the releasing. It's that simple.  
  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli irmeli.matts...@... wrote:
snip
 The severe problem was how it got implemented. The tools
 and tactics used belong to the category of fanatic
 fundamentalism. This implies to me that Maharishi was in
 his personal structural development still at mythical-
 fundamentalist level due to his cultural background.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Wilber's vertical-vs.-horizontal development scheme also
makes excellent sense to me, especially the notion that
they aren't necessarily coordinated, i.e., that one can
be further along in vertical development than one is in
horizontal development, and vice-versa. This has a great
deal of explanatory value, it seems to me. It may be a
huge and potentially very dangerous mistake to assume 
progress on one scale implies equal progress on the other.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas for all!

[WillyTex]

  But, if thoughts are not part of the physical
  world, then what are they a part of? That's the
  question, and it's has nothing to do with ethics,
  religious or otherwise.
 
Hugo:
 Selling prayers that don't work for large sums
 and using quantum physics as justification  
 sounds like an pretty ethical problem to me.

That's where you got mixed up - it is unethical to
make fun of other people's spiritual path. There
are no ethics in quantum physics. 

You are acting like the thought police. I see no 
harm in any group of people wanting to send out good 
vibes to the rest of the community. Why would anyone, 
other than a fascist, want to criticize that? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Spiritual Path As FUN

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 I actually hate talking about all the flash that
 happened around Rama. Especially here, because
 people are so hungry for flash, and so jealous
 of it actually happening for other people, as 
 opposed to only reading about it, or hearing it
 in other people's stories.

Oh, bullcrap. You bring up Rama at every possible
opportunity, *especially* the flash, exactly
*because* you perceive it to inspire jealousy in
others.

It never occurs to you that, far from being
jealous, they're mocking you for your preoccupation
with it and the importance you accord it.

You live, at least on this forum, to make others
feel inferior to you. And you compulsively attribute
all negative reaction to your self-exaltation to
jealousy.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:
snip
 Having read the first volley of them years ago, I can tell
 you that I too avoid them like the plague.  They leave a
 bad taste in the mouth,  all seem identical, and are a
 waste of my time - kind of like listening to the endless,
 repetitive bickering of the coupe in the apartment above
 yours.

Wayback, just out of curiosity: I assume you read Barry's
posts that aren't about me, right?

Do you refrain from reading my commentary on those posts
because you class them as part of the bickering?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[WillyTex]

Turq:
 But did it *happen*? On a physical level? Of course
 not. If it had, astronomers all over the world would
 have gone bull goose loony. 

So, you're thinking that objects are NOT exactly as 
they appear. That objects are CHANGED by the very act
of being obeserved. And that objects are not experienced
EXACTLY the same way for all individuals. And, that it 
requires a CONSCIOUSNESS to experience an object? That 
there is a constructed character of knowing?

Apparently you got mixed up, Turq. In a previous post,
you denied a belief in subjective idealism. What's up 
with that?
 
 But we all saw it. It happened FOR US. 
 
 Can we say, I saw the stars move around and LEAVE
 it at that? 
 
 I think not. I think one has to tell the whole truth
 about subjective experiences like this and say right
 up front that they *were* subjective experiences. 
 
 You seem to be more of the school that believes that
 your subjective experience defines reality. I give
 reality more credit than that.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas for all!

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

 
 
   But, if thoughts are not part of the physical
   world, then what are they a part of? That's the
   question, and it's has nothing to do with ethics,
   religious or otherwise.
  
 Hugo:
  Selling prayers that don't work for large sums
  and using quantum physics as justification  
  sounds like an pretty ethical problem to me.
 
 That's where you got mixed up - it is unethical to
 make fun of other people's spiritual path. There
 are no ethics in quantum physics. 
 
 You are acting like the thought police. I see no 
 harm in any group of people wanting to send out good 
 vibes to the rest of the community. Why would anyone, 
 other than a fascist, want to criticize that?

My mistake is that I never learn. Time after time
people tell me (and you) that there aint no point
trying to communicate with the willtex. It's like
you don't want to understand someones POV, either
that or you can't bring yourself to admit there
may be an ethical problem in lying about something 
to make money. Aint no positive vibes in some of the
TMOs money making schemes that I've seen. Telling
people yagyas have a foundation in QP is highly
dubious behaviour.

You can't say if you disagree or even understand, 
but just go of on a surreal tangent inventing things
you want me (and others) to be so you can feel all
smug and self-righteous. Or are you just a troll 
with no life to speak of outside the Golden Domes 
of Pure Knowledge, can't get his kicks without 
creating non-existent arguments. Weird I call it. 
I know why I never learn though, it's because I'm 
an optimist. I like to believe that one day I'll 
get you to understand a contrary viewpoint.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[WillyTex]

RD:
 Barry fibbed about Rama levitating?
 
Only about the 'thousands' of people who saw 
the Rama levitating and hovering. There is a
constructed character of knowing. 

If we see a snake in the night, and it turns 
out to be a rope in the morning, the rope is 
not unreal, but it's not real either. 

The rope is a real object while we are 
experiencing it, but it is not real when we 
see it for what it really is.

So, objects are not always *exactly* as they 
appear to be. Objects are changed by the very 
act of being perceived. 

Objects are not real, yet they are not unreal 
either - they are Maya, which means that they 
are indescribable. This is one of the main
cornerstones of Avaita Vedanta. 

We don't call people 'liars' because they are 
ignorant of the truth - we should just say that 
they are highly suggestible.

  Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands 
  of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama
  followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in
  Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs
  is mentioned over forty times. Go figure.
  

[FairfieldLife] Our nostalgia for Bush and Cheney

[authfriend]

From Glenn Greenwald today:

...There is clearly a bipartisan and institutional 
craving for a revival...of the core premise of 
Bush/Cheney radicalism:  that because we're at 
war with Terrorists, our standard precepts of 
justice and due process do not apply and, indeed, 
must be violated

We collectively pretended for a little while to 
regret the excesses of the Bush/Cheney approach to 
such matters.  But it's now crystal clear that the 
country, especially its ruling elite, is either too 
petrified of Terrorism and/or too enamored of the 
powers which that fear enables to accept any real 
changes from the policies that were supposedly such 
a profound violation of our values.

...What was once the most basic and defining
American principle -- the State must charge someone
with a crime and give them a fair trial in order to
imprison them -- has been magically transformed into
Leftist extremismRead the official policy of
the Reagan Administration...:

Another important measure we have developed in our 
overall strategy is applying the rule of law to 
terrorists. Terrorists are criminals. They commit 
criminal actions like murder, kidnapping, and 
arson, and countries have laws to punish criminals. 
So a major element of our strategy has been to 
delegitimize terrorists, to get society to see them 
for what they are -- criminals -- and to use 
democracy's most potent tool, the rule of law 
against them

How much clearer evidence can there be of how 
warped and extremist we've become on these matters? 
The express policies of the right-wing Ronald 
Reagan...are now considered...the exclusive 
province of civil liberties extremists.

In those rare cases when Obama does what Reagan's 
policy demanded...he is attacked as being Soft on 
Terror by Democrats and Republicans alike.  And 
the mere notion that we should prosecute torturers 
(as Reagan bound the U.S. to do) -- or even hold 
them accountable in ways short of criminal 
proceedings -- is now the hallmark of a Far Leftist 
Purist.  That's how far we've fallen, how extremist 
our political consensus has become.

Read more:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/31/nostalgia/index.html

http://tinyurl.com/ybnxfyu

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[WillyTex]

RD:
 If Rama levitated in the desert, maybe 
 it was a mirage...

Let's see if we can bring the conversation
down to Turq's level. 

If you are speeding down a West Texas highway,
in the middle of the desert, and you see a 'wet
spot' on the road, even though it hasn't rained 
for sixty days, do you swerve off the road into
a ditch?

A mirage is a real mirage. It's only when you
know the truth that you see things the way they
really are. A dream is real while you are in the
dream, experiencing it. But it is unreal when you
wake up from the dream. 

A Chinese sage once fell asleep on a hillside and
he dreamed he was a butterfly. When he woke up, he
asked himself: 'Am I a man who dreamed I was a
butterfly, or am I a butterfly that dreamed I was
a man?'

  Actually, I had a friend, a former TM teacher 
  now deceased, who was a student of Rama's around 
  the time Barry must have been there. This friend 
  also talked of seeing  Rama levitate on many 
  occasions.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Duveyoung]

Has anyone taken Barry's assertions serious enough to even google the issue?  
You'd think that with thousands of followers, there'd be all sorts of sites 
still dedicated to adoring Rama and that, online, there would be ample 
citations of levitation to point at.  Got any?

Not worth the googling to me cuz any levitation in front of hundreds of folks 
has to produce at least a 30% bystander-to-full-believer rate of conversion, 
and those folks would be doing puja even now based on that evidence. Where are 
they? And why is Barry so willing to spread the news of levitation being a real 
phenomonum and yet he is no longer a true believer?  Levitation, if real, is a 
very serious proof that the levitator, while not necessarily enlightened, has 
mastered a siddhi that can only come from having purified his mind to an almost 
perfect degree, and such a mind would most likely be filled with deep insights 
and wisdom.  

Keep in mind that a few loaves and fishes did the same to manifest true 
believers.  So, any leader who could get even a 100 followers is certain to 
have cameras always around; brought by those who would make the leader into a 
idol.  To have levitation witnessed once and not captured on film is 
understandable; to have this happen many times and not have at least one true 
believer be there ready for the moment with a camera is not understandable.  
Hell, to imagine Barry not lugging a camera around, given his addiction to name 
dropping, is a gimme.  Where's yer photos, Barry?

When Barry weasels on this like he did by using cameras can't see auras, as 
his reason for no photographic evidence, then, hey, what's new in the wonderful 
world of rationalization?  

Let's face it:  Barry could be sitting in his underwear in his Mom's basement 
in Gary, Indiana; a 400 pound pock marked puter geek who makes it look like his 
posts come from Europe enough to fool Alex; a stack of pizza boxes next to him 
testifies why his keyboard is covered with the gunk that can only come from 
pizza grease and dust commingling over years; a pile of Kleenex tissues 
overflowing his basket that's next to his bottle of Exxon Jumbo Lubricant; 
yellow teeth almost hidden by a foul mortar of plaque; and let's complete this 
imagined scenario by picturing him forming his nose mucus into small Judy 
voodoo dolls as he awaits her next post.

Just sayin!

Edg

 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote:
 
  
  
 Tell us the truth.  Were you hallucinating 
 when you saw the levitation?

  RD:
   Too bad all those thousands of people who 
   experienced Rama levitating pre-mobile phone 
   days didn't upload a video of him hovering in 
   mid-air...
  
  Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands 
  of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama
  followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in
  Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs
  is mentioned over forty times. Go figure.
  
  Even Mr. Lenz himself doesn't claim this siddhi
  in his book, 'Surfing the Himalayas'. Apparently
  it's much more fun to use a snowboard than to
  levitate. Floating face down in the water with
  a dog collar around his neck seems to be Fred's
  favorite magical show.
  
  Hovering in mid-air isn't even listed on Rama's 
  own website where it mentions that Rama is a 
  'Black Belt'. 
  
  I'd suppose, if thousands of people saw Rama do
  hovering or turning rooms into golden light, at 
  least more than one would have reported it by 
  now. It's not mentioned by any of the former
  Lenz students who went over to Franklin Jones.
 
 
 Actually, I had a friend, a former TM teacher now deceased, who was a student 
 of Rama's around the time Barry must have been there.  This friend also 
 talked of seeing  Rama levitate on many occasions.  He also saw him move 
 clouds around in an outside gathering and I think he said Rama could make 
 himself invisible (not sure on this one).  This friend, Jack, did not know 
 exactly how the levitation or other things occurred, but he was very certain 
 he had seen them.  As I recall, the outside events were in the desert, so it 
 would have been pretty difficult to fix up the props of a magician.
 
 The last time I saw Jack, perhaps a year before he died, he was still 
 involved with Rama.  But he refused to hug me hello, did not even want to 
 shake hands, and had some sort of compulsion about washing his hands several 
 times during dinner.  I was never certain if those were Rama's rules or his 
 own problems.
 
  Apparently some people are very much prone to 
  suggestion. Turq is a case in point. If he had 
  not posted so much misinformation about the 
  Maharishi, he would be more believable. 
  
  But, since he has fibbed so much, who would want 
  to believe him now about the levitation siddhi?
  
  Titles of interest:
  
  'Take Me for a Ride
  Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult 
  By 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas for all!

[WillyTex]

 Telling people yagyas have a foundation in
 QP is highly dubious behaviour...

Everything on the planet has something to do 
with 'QP', Hugo. The question is, can QP be
altered or changed at will? 

I don't think the Maharishi ever made that 
claim. It's not even mentioned in your 
original post of goals for the Maharishi
Yagya Program.

Why would anyone object and want to persecute
a group of people getting together to pray for 
world peace and prosperity, Hugo?

Maybe you got a little mixed up - you thought 
you were a liberal, but you turned out to be 
intolerant. Go figure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: January, The private life and 2 Kids

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Doug dhamiltony...@... wrote:

 The TM Maharaja Private life and 2 Kids

Doug; get a hobby !

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Irmeli]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:


 Wilber's vertical-vs.-horizontal development scheme also
 makes excellent sense to me, especially the notion that
 they aren't necessarily coordinated, i.e., that one can
 be further along in vertical development than one is in
 horizontal development, and vice-versa. This has a great
 deal of explanatory value, it seems to me. It may be a
 huge and potentially very dangerous mistake to assume 
 progress on one scale implies equal progress on the other.


Yes it helps to dispel a lot of confusion especially in the area of 
spirituality. 
We can learn a lot from spiritual teachers and gurus considering advanced 
states without expecting them to be highly evolved as persons.
It can also bring a relief for gurus in form of expectations put to them to be 
in every way perfect human beings, if they master the nondual state.

[FairfieldLife] Review of Avatar

[Rick Archer]

MAWKISH, MAYBE. BUT AVATAR IS A PROFOUND, INSIGHTFUL, IMPORTANT FILM

CAMERON'S BLOCKBUSTER OFFERS A CHILLING METAPHOR FOR EUROPEAN BUTCHERY OF
THE AMERICAS. NO WONDER THE US RIGHT HATES IT.

By George Monbiot
The Guardian
January 11, 2010

 http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/11/mawkish-maybe 
http://www.guardian .co.uk/commentis free/cifamerica/ 2010/jan/ 11/mawkish- 
maybe-avatar-profound- important

Avatar, James Cameron's blockbusting 3D film, is both profoundly silly and
profound. It's profound because, like most films about aliens, it is a
metaphor for contact between different human cultures. But in this case the
metaphor is conscious and precise: this is the story of European engagement
with the native peoples of the Americas. It's profoundly silly because
engineering a happy ending demands a plot so stupid and predictable that it
rips the heart out of the film. The fate of the native Americans is much
closer to the story told in another new film, The Road, in which a remnant
population flees in terror as it is hunted to extinction.

But this is a story no one wants to hear, because of the challenge it
presents to the way we choose to see ourselves. Europe was massively
enriched by the genocides in the Americas; the American nations were founded
on them. This is a history we cannot accept.

In his book American Holocaust, the US scholar David Stannard documents the
greatest acts of genocide the world has ever experienced. In 1492, some 100
million native people lived in the Americas. By the end of the 19th century
almost all of them had been exterminated. Many died as a result of disease,
but the mass extinction was also engineered.

When the Spanish arrived in the Americas, they described a world which could
scarcely have been more different to their own. Europe was ravaged by war,
oppression, slavery, fanaticism, disease and starvation. The populations
they encountered were healthy, well-nourished and mostly (with exceptions
like the Aztecs and Incas) peaceable, democratic and egalitarian. Throughout
the Americas the earliest explorers, including Columbus, remarked on the
natives' extraordinary hospitality. The conquistadores marvelled at the
amazing roads, canals, buildings and art they found, which in some cases
outstripped anything they had seen at home. None of this stopped them
destroying everything and everyone they encountered.

The butchery began with Columbus. He slaughtered the native people of
Hispaniola (now Haiti and the Dominican Republic) by unimaginably brutal
means. His soldiers tore babies from their mothers and dashed their heads
against rocks. They fed their dogs on living children. On one occasion they
hung 13 Indians in honour of Christ and the 12 disciples, on a gibbet just
low enough for their toes to touch the ground, then disembowelled them and
burnt them alive. Columbus ordered all the native people to deliver a
certain amount of gold every three months; anyone who failed had his hands
cut off. By 1535 the native population of Hispaniola had fallen from eight
million to zero: partly as a result of disease, partly due to murder,
overwork and starvation.

The conquistadores spread this civilising mission across central and south
America. When they failed to reveal where their mythical treasures were
hidden, the indigenous people were flogged, hanged, drowned, dismembered,
ripped apart by dogs, buried alive or burnt. The soldiers cut off women's
breasts, sent people back to their villages with their severed hands and
noses hung round their necks and hunted them with dogs for sport. But most
were killed by enslavement and disease. The Spanish discovered that it was
cheaper to work the native Americans to death and replace them than to keep
them alive: the life expectancy in their mines and plantations was three to
four months. Within a century of their arrival, about 95% of the population
of South and Central America were dead.

In California during the 18th century the Spanish systematised this
extermination. A Franciscan missionary called Junpero Serra set up a series
of missions: in reality concentration camps using slave labour. The native
people were herded in under force of arms and made to work in the fields on
one fifth of the calories fed to African American slaves in the 19th
century. They died from overwork, starvation and disease at astonishing
rates, and were continually replaced, wiping out the indigenous populations.
Junpero Serra, the Eichmann of California, was beatified by the Vatican in
1988. He now requires one more miracle to be pronounced a saint.

While the Spanish were mostly driven by the lust for gold, the British who
colonised North America wanted land. In New England they surrounded the
villages of the native Americans and murdered them as they slept. As
genocide spread westwards, it was endorsed at the highest levels. George
Washington ordered the total destruction of the homes and land of the
Iroquois. Thomas 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote:

 Let's face it:  Barry could be sitting in his underwear in his
 Mom's basement in Gary, Indiana; a 400 pound pock marked puter
 geek who makes it look like his posts come from Europe enough
 to fool Alex;

Like you, Barry is using the Hide my email and IP address from the group 
moderators option. Maybe both of you are underwear-clad, 400 pound, pock 
marked computer geeks in mom's basements in Gary Indiana. Perhaps, I should 
learn remote viewing. Or, perhaps not.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[It's just a ride]

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:17 AM, Irmeli irmeli.matts...@netti.fi wrote:



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride
 bill.hicks.all.a.r...@... wrote:


   My
  friend will shake his/her head and ask where did this come from but
 that's
  the way my unconscious works.  Reshift, reshift, reshift, getting my
  understanding of things better digested.

 I think that is a great quality to have. Mature understanding takes shape
 often this way. Letting old stuff to come on the surface, looking at it from
 new angles, reshifting it.Questioning old understanding and explanations.
 


Also, I have this unconscious drive for closure.  Somewhere, right below the
surface, there's this shuffling though old conversations, things I read,
things I heard.  There's this debate and discrimination going on.  When my
unconscious discovers things don't click or aren't complete, the issues
bubble up to the surface and I find I need to rebutt, finish a conversation,
often answer a question asked of me during a conversation but I got
sidetracked but didn't answer.  The very weird part is that I've had
conversations that hadn't been completed (because, say someone asked a
significant question of me and I got sidetracked and didn't answer).  I'll
write, call the person up or bring up the conversation in person and answer
the question, 12 years later.  This confuses my friends and associates.  It
takes forever to remind them of the conversation, which they forgot 2
minutes later.  Perhaps this is a form of OCD (obsessive-compulsive
disorder)?


 
  I remember the first governor who returned to my area.  She came to sort
 of
  teach at a residence course.  She was totally spaced out.  She acted like
  she was the Queen of Sheeba. She exuded the attitude that if she shit
 like
  the rest of us, it came out smelling like the finest perfume.  I don't
 know
  if that's the attitude that people learned on governor training or if
 that's
  an attitude she developed when she returned home and there was all of
 this
  mystique.  All sorts of powers were attributed to the Queen, that she
 could
  read our thoughts, see our pasts and futures.  She said nothing to dispel
  this mystique.
 

 I have similar memories. The governers apparently got brainwashed this way
 during their training.

 I remember an episode from my first rounding together with these new
 governers and siddhas. We meditators got really treated like shit. We were
 not allowed to dine at the same table as the siddhas, actually not even in
 the same part of the dining room, because of our rough energies. They had
 made an own compartment for us meditators.

 However that all flopped, because some of the siddhas, who were our close
 friends felt uncomfortable with this arrangement, and decided to come to eat
 in our compartment.

 I suspect these types of idiotic practices came directly from Maharishi.He
 tried to create a caste system also into his organization. Even the low
 aspects of his cultural conditioning had started to surface. Earlier he had
 tried to at least superficially to adapt TM to the western values.

 The overall impact however was that truly many left TM-movement, including
 both meditators and siddhas.

 We westerners cannot easily accept a caste system. And this is not because
 we are so disoriented, and are energetically SO rough. It is because we have
 culturally evolved above accepting to categorize people in rigid castes or
 classes only because an authority figure says so.



Thank you so very much for these observations and conclusions.  I rarely get
validation here in FFL because when I criticize TM teachers or Governors,
well the forum is full of TM teachers and Governors and my charges against
them are ignored because, well, THEY DIDN'T ACT LIKE THAT (yeah, right) or
perhaps as a former mere meditator and even now not a TM Teacher, I am
nothing, not worthy of criticizing the very damaging things the Governors
and TM Teachers here did to the psyches of so many of us mere
meditators/citizen sidhas.

Yes, in this case, the sidhas and especially governors were only following
orders.  My understanding is that Maharishi puffed up TM teachers (a secret
that can never be shared with mere meditators/citizen sidhas), telling them
that they were God's gift to the world.  It appears he puffed up the TM
teachers even more when they learned the sidhis.  They become Governors (of
which states or provinces?) and ministers.  Indeed he was creating a caste
system and the likes of me were ever to be at the bottom of the system
(unless I donated $millions to the TMO).

I don't recall the citizen sidhas trying to act special or considering
themselves special.  They were, of course, put in separate dining rooms,
meeting rooms, and tapes which used to be proper for mere meditators now
could only be viewed by sidhas.  What I found interesting when I got my
national field badge proving I was a certified citizen sidha, is that I
didn't see anything special 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Duveyoung]

Touché, Alex!  Nice.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@... 
wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote:
 
  Let's face it:  Barry could be sitting in his underwear in his
  Mom's basement in Gary, Indiana; a 400 pound pock marked puter
  geek who makes it look like his posts come from Europe enough
  to fool Alex;
 
 Like you, Barry is using the Hide my email and IP address from the group 
 moderators option. Maybe both of you are underwear-clad, 400 pound, pock 
 marked computer geeks in mom's basements in Gary Indiana. Perhaps, I should 
 learn remote viewing. Or, perhaps not.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[WillyTex]

Curtis:
 Was that the time when Maharishis made all 
 the faucets in the hotel run with carob 
 flavored milk and every child found gumdrops 
 appearing in their little pockets? (Their 
 favorite colors only and not any of those 
 nasty licorice ones.)
 
All this statement proves is your prejudice 
against Hindus. 

At the same time we're trying to provide funds 
for Haitian orphans, you're making fun of the 
Maharishi for trying to raise funds for Hindu 
orphans. 

 He was just the most magical little man.
 
Not all Hindus are 'little' men, Curtis.

[FairfieldLife] Exclusive: Obama stimulus reduced our pain, experts say

[do.rflex]

Exclusive: Obama stimulus reduced our pain, experts say

By Paul Wiseman
http://www.usatoday.com/community/tags/reporter.aspx?id=507  and
Barbara Hansen
http://www.usatoday.com/community/tags/reporter.aspx?id=46 , USA TODAY

President Obama's stimulus package saved jobs — but the
government still needs to do more to breathe life into the economy,
according to USA TODAY's quarterly survey of 50 economists.
Unemployment would have hit 10.8% — higher than December's 10% rate
— without Obama's $787 billion stimulus program
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Legislation+and+Acts/U.S.+Gove\
rnment/Economic+Stimulus , according to the economists' median
estimate. The difference would translate into another 1.2 million lost
jobs.


But almost two-thirds of the economists said the government should do
more to spur job growth. Suggestions included suspending payroll taxes
for Social Security and Medicare, increasing spending on infrastructure,
enacting a flat tax on income and extending jobless benefits.
The economists expect the jobless rate to remain in double digits until
the third quarter.
David Berson, chief economist at PMI Group
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/PMI+Group , worries that the
housing market and the economy will suffer when the government's tax
credit to first-time home buyers expires in April and the Fed stops
supporting the housing market by purchasing mortgage-backed securities
by March 31.
Bill Cheney, chief economist at John Hancock
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/John+Hancock  Financial
Services, is relatively optimistic. He sees unemployment falling to 8.9%
by the fourth quarter of this year. Cheney says other economists are
nervous Nellies, shell-shocked by the length and depth of this
downturn. They've forgotten that the deeper the recession, the faster
you come out of it.

But Diane Swonk, chief economist at Mesirow Financial, says creating
jobs is tougher than it was the last time unemployment passed 10% in the
early '80s. The reason: The 1981-82 recession was engineered by the
Federal Reserve
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Organizations/Government+Bodie\
s/Federal+Reserve  to tame inflation through high interest rates. The
Fed brought the economy back simply by reversing course and cutting
rates.

This time, the Fed has pushed short-term rates to near zero and has
flooded markets with money. But the financial system is so damaged by
the Wall Street meltdown that it isn't converting easy money into loans
and economic growth: It's like the Fed is dropping money from a
helicopter and it's getting caught in the trees, Swonk says.

The economists don't expect Fed chief Ben Bernanke
http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/People/Politicians,+Government\
+Officials,+Strategists/Ben+Bernanke  to take his foot off the
accelerator — and push rates up — until the third quarter. So
they don't expect any change in the Fed's zero-interest-rate policy when
its Open Market Committee meets Tuesday and Wednesday.

Bernanke and his colleagues are very committed to doing the right
thing, Cheney says. They learned from Japan's long 1990s slump, during
which policymakers kept declaring premature victory and raising rates
and taxes: It's really important not to snuff out a recovery before it
gets going.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-01-25-usa-today-economic-surv\
ey-obama-stimulus_N.htm

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas for all!

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:

I know why I never learn though, it's because I'm
an optimist. I like to believe that one day I'll
get you to understand a contrary viewpoint.

Well said!  You expressed the odd mystery of interacting with him perfectly.  




 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote:
 
  
  
But, if thoughts are not part of the physical
world, then what are they a part of? That's the
question, and it's has nothing to do with ethics,
religious or otherwise.
   
  Hugo:
   Selling prayers that don't work for large sums
   and using quantum physics as justification  
   sounds like an pretty ethical problem to me.
  
  That's where you got mixed up - it is unethical to
  make fun of other people's spiritual path. There
  are no ethics in quantum physics. 
  
  You are acting like the thought police. I see no 
  harm in any group of people wanting to send out good 
  vibes to the rest of the community. Why would anyone, 
  other than a fascist, want to criticize that?
 
 My mistake is that I never learn. Time after time
 people tell me (and you) that there aint no point
 trying to communicate with the willtex. It's like
 you don't want to understand someones POV, either
 that or you can't bring yourself to admit there
 may be an ethical problem in lying about something 
 to make money. Aint no positive vibes in some of the
 TMOs money making schemes that I've seen. Telling
 people yagyas have a foundation in QP is highly
 dubious behaviour.
 
 You can't say if you disagree or even understand, 
 but just go of on a surreal tangent inventing things
 you want me (and others) to be so you can feel all
 smug and self-righteous. Or are you just a troll 
 with no life to speak of outside the Golden Domes 
 of Pure Knowledge, can't get his kicks without 
 creating non-existent arguments. Weird I call it. 
 I know why I never learn though, it's because I'm 
 an optimist. I like to believe that one day I'll 
 get you to understand a contrary viewpoint.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[Joe]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   snip[
   
   Isn't it convenient how this psychobabble excuses
   your behavior?
  
  You made up the shame spin on me not arguing with people
  who thought you were out of line for giving me shit when
  I came here.  The tribe spoke and you got voted off. 
  Deal with it.
 
 We could go back and look at that, Curtis, if you like.
 
 What actually happened was that I was trying to *avoid*
 a hassle with you, told you to lay off, and you went
 right ahead anyway. Folks jumped on me for continuing
 to try to provoke you when in fact it was just the
 opposite. You knew that, and you let me take what you
 knew was a bad rap.
 
 I just went back and reviewed what happened--it was
 in early May 2006--to make sure I was describing it
 accurately. You might want to do the same.
 
 No, come to think of it, I'm sure you won't want to.
 
   And victimhood is yet another weasel term (also
   one Barry uses, quelle surprise).
  
  Naming things with labels doesn't make them less useful
  as descriptive terms for describing behavior.
 
 Inappropriate labels are very useful for those who
 use them to promote their agenda, yes indeed.
 
 If you use the labels grudge and victimhood to
 describe someone's response to your bad behavior,
 that shifts the blame onto them. Very neat.
 
   You are
  playing up your victim hood, it is a constant theme.
 
 No, Curtis, it's about *ethics*, not victimhood.
 
   Of course, we don't ever see Barry (or you) 
   complaining about being victimized.
   
   horselaugh
  
  Because that is not my filter.  I don't allow myself to
  be victimized.
 
 Oh, please, Curtis. Your whole mommy/daddy riff
 was a whine about how you were being victimized by
 my quoting you in a post to Barry. That you put a
 humorous spin on it doesn't change what you were
 communicating.
 
 I could dig up plenty of other instances of your
 complaining about how you're being treated. And you
 just got done complaining about Nabby calling you
 an idiot, remember?
 
 Barry whines constantly about how I'm stalking
 him and how others beat up on him, attributing this
 to his being a TM critic (as opposed to the real
 reason, which is that he's a crappy person all
 round). He just left a long post to that effect this
 morning, for pete's sake.
 
   You're quite right, Curtis, you aren't at your best
   when you're under fire.
  
  I don't enjoy your shame vibe.
 
 So it's perfectly OK for you to send a shame vibe my
 way by suggesting I was making you feel bad by
 quoting you in a post to Barry, and by pinning the
 grudge and victimhood labels on me, but it's not
 OK for me to point out what you're doing, right?
 
  But as far as a putdown, that was lame.
 
 Just referring to what you yourself said earlier:
 
 I'm just glad you are both cool enough to communicate
 with me without the scud missiles going off, since I
 don't do my best work under that kind of fire.
 
   With or
  without horselaughs you are portraying yourself as a
  victim and I'm not buying it. It has become part of
  your identity now and challenging it meets with
  survival level push-back.
 
 There's a difference, Curtis, between feeling that
 one is a victim and portraying someone else as a
 (would-be) victimizer. Victimhood is most definitely
 *not* part of my identity; I have way too much self-
 esteem for that. You're damn right I'm going to push
 back at the accusation and point out that it's
 designed to relieve you of any responsibility for your
 behavior.

Ahh yes, the patented Judy debate autopsy. (yawn)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli irmeli.matts...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  Wilber's vertical-vs.-horizontal development scheme also
  makes excellent sense to me, especially the notion that
  they aren't necessarily coordinated, i.e., that one can
  be further along in vertical development than one is in
  horizontal development, and vice-versa. This has a great
  deal of explanatory value, it seems to me. It may be a
  huge and potentially very dangerous mistake to assume 
  progress on one scale implies equal progress on the other.
 
 Yes it helps to dispel a lot of confusion especially in
 the area of spirituality. We can learn a lot from spiritual
 teachers and gurus considering advanced states without
 expecting them to be highly evolved as persons.

 It can also bring a relief for gurus in form of
 expectations put to them to be in every way perfect human
 beings, if they master the nondual state.

But from the side of the one who has mastered tne nondual
state, it appears that in at least some cases, the
experience of that state is that one has become in tune
with (in MMY's terminology) the laws of nature, and that
this means one's actions are all spontaneously right.

So it may not be the expectations only of the followers
of such gurus; it may be the experientially based 
conviction of the gurus themselves that they can do no
wrong.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas for all!

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes...@... wrote:
snip
 Or are you just a troll 
 with no life to speak of outside the Golden Domes 
 of Pure Knowledge, can't get his kicks without 
 creating non-existent arguments.

Bingo. At least, this is how he chooses to get his
kicks, or some of his kicks.

And it's not so much a matter of creating nonexistent
arguments. He seems to perceive himself as a teacher
of crazy wisdom, confounding people in order to
help them see the light.

Trouble is, he's good at the confounding part but not
so hot at the seeing-the-light part.

 Weird I call it. 
 I know why I never learn though, it's because I'm 
 an optimist. I like to believe that one day I'll 
 get you to understand a contrary viewpoint.

Might be more productive to believe that one day he'll
get bored with getting his kicks this way. He isn't
dumb, and he knows a lot of *stuff*. He might turn out
to be a real pleasure to interact with and even learn
from if he dropped the crazy-wisdom act.

I think he may be afraid he wouldn't make the grade if
he played it straight, though. Safer to stick with
the act and not make the attempt.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Vaj]

On Jan 31, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Duveyoung wrote:

 Has anyone taken Barry's assertions serious enough to even google the issue? 
 You'd think that with thousands of followers, there'd be all sorts of sites 
 still dedicated to adoring Rama and that, online, there would be ample 
 citations of levitation to point at. Got any?


Not sure, but my guess would be, since he committed suicide, most of the 
interest and most of the followers bailed. I remember Rama for his follower's 
obnoxious presence on BBS's and the early web and his tacky disco-look 
full-page adverts in new age magazines. 

Some things in life are better forgotten. :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:
 Curtis:
  Was that the time when Maharishis made all 
  the faucets in the hotel run with carob 
  flavored milk and every child found gumdrops 
  appearing in their little pockets? (Their 
  favorite colors only and not any of those 
  nasty licorice ones.)
  
 All this statement proves is your prejudice 
 against Hindus. 

Just the snake-oil salesmen among them.  But excellent crazy-making non 
sequitur Richard.  We were just discussing this tendency on another thread and 
here you serve up a perfect example.

 
 At the same time we're trying to provide funds 
 for Haitian orphans, you're making fun of the 
 Maharishi for trying to raise funds for Hindu 
 orphans. 

He never gave a dime for such a cause.  All cash went to his causes of 
self-promotion and self-aggrandizement.  His final wish was raising money, not 
for orphans but monuments to himself.  Erecting phallic monuments to the great 
Maharishi.

 
  He was just the most magical little man.
  
 Not all Hindus are 'little' men, Curtis.

Excellent point, I'm glad you cleared that up.  But he certainly was vertically 
challenged.

[FairfieldLife] Time Out for Rev. X

[Joe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhy0_jkOXCofeature=player_embedded#

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Joe]

I remember seeing one of his magazinesthe cover had an incredibly hot woman 
sitting on the hood of a Porsche with the caption: Samadhi Is Loose in America

Come to think of it I probably saw this over at Barry's pad.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote:

 
 On Jan 31, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Duveyoung wrote:
 
  Has anyone taken Barry's assertions serious enough to even google the 
  issue? You'd think that with thousands of followers, there'd be all sorts 
  of sites still dedicated to adoring Rama and that, online, there would be 
  ample citations of levitation to point at. Got any?
 
 
 Not sure, but my guess would be, since he committed suicide, most of the 
 interest and most of the followers bailed. I remember Rama for his follower's 
 obnoxious presence on BBS's and the early web and his tacky disco-look 
 full-page adverts in new age magazines. 
 
 Some things in life are better forgotten. :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfr...@... wrote:

 I remember seeing one of his magazinesthe cover had an 
 incredibly hot woman sitting on the hood of a Porsche with 
 the caption: Samadhi Is Loose in America
 
 Come to think of it I probably saw this over at Barry's pad.

Very possibly, Geez. That was a cool mag. It
was called Self Discovery, and we printed
and distributed half a million copies of it
in L.A. for free, just for the fuck of it. 

The content consisted of nothing more than a 
few of the stories from The Last Incarnation,
a bunch of first-person, subjective-experience
stories from his students at the time. It did
not advertise any particular lecture, or course,
or anything. It was just stories.

But *first-person* stories, distributed free to
people who had been involved with spiritual 
practices their whole lives, and who had never
heard anything other than Other People's Stories,
stories from way back in the past, or from far,
far away, both in terms of time and geography.

If it made an impression at all, it was because
it was so fuckin' outrageous. That appealed to
me then. The difference between me and a lot of
the stick-in-the-mud TM TB's here is that it
appeals to me still. 

Only slackers think that the cool spiritual
stuff only happened in the past.

The babe on the cover was the wife of a good
friend of mine at the time. If you thought the
photo was hot, you should have known the woman.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote:
 snip
  Having read the first volley of them years ago, I can tell
  you that I too avoid them like the plague.  They leave a
  bad taste in the mouth,  all seem identical, and are a
  waste of my time - kind of like listening to the endless,
  repetitive bickering of the coupe in the apartment above
  yours.
 
 Wayback, just out of curiosity: I assume you read Barry's
 posts that aren't about me, right?

 Yes, I do read some of Barry's posts that are not about you, but not all of 
his posts.  I always go by topic since at this point in my life I don't seem to 
have much free time and rarely spend more than 10 min on FFL when I do check 
in.  I also read your posts when they are not about Barry if the topic 
interests me.   You have incredible insight and an eye for detail that I could 
never match, so I find that awesome.


 Do you refrain from reading my commentary on those posts
 because you class them as part of the bickering?


Sometimes, but I guess about half the time I will look at your response and if 
there is the slightest reference to Barry rather than the topic, I move on. 
Given that, I am sure that I often miss your responses about Barry's posts.  
But that is ok with me.  And it is also ok with me not to read anything from 
Barry about you.  I am simply not interested in your opinions about each other. 
 I enjoy both of your posts on other topics, though.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of wayback71
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:51 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married
with 2 daughters
 
Sometimes, but I guess about half the time I will look at your response and
if there is the slightest reference to Barry rather than the topic, I move
on. Given that, I am sure that I often miss your responses about Barry's
posts. But that is ok with me. And it is also ok with me not to read
anything from Barry about you. I am simply not interested in your opinions
about each other. I enjoy both of your posts on other topics, though.
My approach too. I read both Barry's and Judy's posts, but if there's any
reference to the other in either's posts, I delete them unread.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli irmeli.matts...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote:
 
  
 
  
  Whose model of development are you using?
   
 
 I have for years now had keen interest in Ken Wilber's philosophy, and also 
 other spiritual teacher's and scientists' thinking in those circles. I'm a 
 member of Integral Spiritual Center, and have also relatively actively 
 participated in discussions on Integral forums.
 
 All people there agree on a broad line of certain developmental levels.  It 
 explains a lot of the general patterns in our behavior.
 Each level has its own typical patterns and even new emerging pathologies and 
 diseases.


Thank you, I signed up for their free newsletter as a start.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[ShempMcGurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of wayback71
 Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:51 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married
 with 2 daughters
  
 Sometimes, but I guess about half the time I will look at your response and
 if there is the slightest reference to Barry rather than the topic, I move
 on. Given that, I am sure that I often miss your responses about Barry's
 posts. But that is ok with me. And it is also ok with me not to read
 anything from Barry about you. I am simply not interested in your opinions
 about each other. I enjoy both of your posts on other topics, though.
 My approach too. I read both Barry's and Judy's posts, but if there's any
 reference to the other in either's posts, I delete them unread.



I don't read Judy's posts on Barry because I have at least some semblance of 
compassion.

It is a given that Judy will totally annihilate Barry's intellect and any kind 
of argument he puts forth on whatever topic he is attempting to debate.  She 
won the battle long, long ago and any post by Barry is one by the vanquished 
who is in deep denial about his ability to win even a minor battle but, 
nevertheless, keeps trying to attack the victor, like a really bad Monty Python 
movie.

I just can't stomach seeing the poor sap being beaten up again and again and 
again...

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:
snip
  Wayback, just out of curiosity: I assume you read Barry's
  posts that aren't about me, right?
 
 Yes, I do read some of Barry's posts that are not about
 you, but not all of his posts.  I always go by topic since
 at this point in my life I don't seem to have much free
 time and rarely spend more than 10 min on FFL when I do
 check in.  I also read your posts when they are not about
 Barry if the topic interests me.   You have incredible
 insight and an eye for detail that I could never match,
 so I find that awesome.
 
  Do you refrain from reading my commentary on those posts
  because you class them as part of the bickering?
 
 Sometimes, but I guess about half the time I will look at
 your response and if there is the slightest reference to
 Barry rather than the topic, I move on.

OK. Thanks for the kind words. I'd just wonder whether
you think any of that insight and eye for detail might
be reflected in my responses to Barry's not-about-Judy
posts, even if I happen to use his name.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[Joe]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote:
  snip
   Having read the first volley of them years ago, I can tell
   you that I too avoid them like the plague.  They leave a
   bad taste in the mouth,  all seem identical, and are a
   waste of my time - kind of like listening to the endless,
   repetitive bickering of the coupe in the apartment above
   yours.
  
  Wayback, just out of curiosity: I assume you read Barry's
  posts that aren't about me, right?
 
  Yes, I do read some of Barry's posts that are not about you, but not all of 
 his posts.  I always go by topic since at this point in my life I don't seem 
 to have much free time and rarely spend more than 10 min on FFL when I do 
 check in.  I also read your posts when they are not about Barry if the topic 
 interests me.   You have incredible insight and an eye for detail that I 
 could never match, so I find that awesome.
 
 
  Do you refrain from reading my commentary on those posts
  because you class them as part of the bickering?
 
 
 Sometimes, but I guess about half the time I will look at your response and 
 if there is the slightest reference to Barry rather than the topic, I move 
 on. Given that, I am sure that I often miss your responses about Barry's 
 posts.  But that is ok with me.  And it is also ok with me not to read 
 anything from Barry about you.  I am simply not interested in your opinions 
 about each other.  I enjoy both of your posts on other topics, though.

That sounds about right. In fact, I've checked back on FFL from time to time 
only to see a pile of posts from Judy with Barry' in the subtextI just 
click off and figure there's nothing new going on. Barry rarely uses Judy's 
name in his posts so once in a while I'll read something and realize it's mid 
volley in one of their exchanges and I tune out.

That said, the last thing she wrote that I can recall being interested in was 
about food. Most of her posts just strike me as self-inflating huffing and 
puffing and putting others down. Barry, on the other hand, I find highly 
amusing and often insightful. He, Rick and Curtis are the must read posts 
when I'm looking in on FFL.

When Curtis stopped posting some months ago I stopped reading FFL for months. 
It's great to have you back Curtis. Your new project is gonna be awesome! Can't 
wait.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote:
 snip
   Wayback, just out of curiosity: I assume you read Barry's
   posts that aren't about me, right?
  
  Yes, I do read some of Barry's posts that are not about
  you, but not all of his posts.  I always go by topic since
  at this point in my life I don't seem to have much free
  time and rarely spend more than 10 min on FFL when I do
  check in.  I also read your posts when they are not about
  Barry if the topic interests me.   You have incredible
  insight and an eye for detail that I could never match,
  so I find that awesome.
  
   Do you refrain from reading my commentary on those posts
   because you class them as part of the bickering?
  
  Sometimes, but I guess about half the time I will look at
  your response and if there is the slightest reference to
  Barry rather than the topic, I move on.
 
 OK. Thanks for the kind words. I'd just wonder whether
 you think any of that insight and eye for detail might
 be reflected in my responses to Barry's not-about-Judy
 posts, even if I happen to use his name.

I am sure it is reflected in your replies to Barry's posts, since I have never 
read a post from you where the insight is missing.  But as I said, I do 
sometimes skip those if the topic is uninteresting to me or if Barry's name 
comes up.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
  On Behalf Of wayback71
  Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:51 PM
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married
  with 2 daughters
   
  Sometimes, but I guess about half the time I will look at your response and
  if there is the slightest reference to Barry rather than the topic, I move
  on. Given that, I am sure that I often miss your responses about Barry's
  posts. But that is ok with me. And it is also ok with me not to read
  anything from Barry about you. I am simply not interested in your opinions
  about each other. I enjoy both of your posts on other topics, though.
  My approach too. I read both Barry's and Judy's posts, but if there's any
  reference to the other in either's posts, I delete them unread.
 
 
 
 I don't read Judy's posts on Barry because I have at least some semblance of 
 compassion.
 
 It is a given that Judy will totally annihilate Barry's intellect and any 
 kind of argument he puts forth on whatever topic he is attempting to debate.  
 She won the battle long, long ago and any post by Barry is one by the 
 vanquished who is in deep denial about his ability to win even a minor battle 
 but, nevertheless, keeps trying to attack the victor, like a really bad Monty 
 Python movie.
 
 I just can't stomach seeing the poor sap being beaten up again and again and 
 again...

Agreed :-)

[FairfieldLife] New Message from Raja Raam

[Rick Archer]

It's not clear to me who this was sent to. I'll post that info when I find
out.
 

 
Here's a message from Maharaja ji today:
 
I spoke this morning with Girish-ji and he lovingly welcomed the news but
brought to my attention a delicacy in the notice sent by Raja Hagelin which
he had read to me before sending (but I had not carefully looked at it).
The following statement is not really accurate since Maharishi-ji never said
to me the following in those terms: Maharishi had told him that, in the
tradition of rulership, having the support of a Royal Family brought
stability and strength to the Kingdom.
This is why it is best not to quote Maharishi in this regard. Maharishi has
been most delicate and quiet about it and all he told me directly when I
personally was wondering what impact it will have was: .this will be good
for The Movement.. Other thoughts were deductions from discussions and side
allusions.
Therefore please do not quote Maharishi in this (not even the above quote)
and if asked just say that you personally were never told anything by
Maharishi about it.
We do not want to give an impression that this is a better path to follow
than the path of Single life for a Raja or anyone in society. Maharishi
emphasized, as I constantly do, the importance of Purusha life style. Why he
blessed this situation? There are many reasons but we do not need to
necessarily get into them right now.
You have all been wonderful and I am glad the time had come to share the
news with all of you. It brings me great joy and a new sense of fullness to
know that you are aware of this.
With always renewed one pointed focus and inspiration to fulfill the goals
Maharishi-ji has graced us with for the achievement of the highest for human
kind and in deep gratitude to Him and all of you for the clarity of purpose,
resolve and joyful dedication to His eternal guidance.
 
Jai Guru Dev
 
 
Raja Raam

[FairfieldLife] America's Got Talent

[John]

Next singing star?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfCqpzQSyuQfeature=related

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfr...@... wrote:
snip
 Barry, on the other hand, I find highly amusing and often
 insightful.

See, that's what I was trying to get at. I have
*never* found his posts insightful, since well before
there was a feud per se. Sometimes he's mildly
amusing, but most of his attempts at humor are labored
and leaden.

As I've said frequently, he's a sloppy thinker. His logic
is poor; he bases his theses on unfounded (and often
unspoken) assumptions; he rarely considers alternative
possibilities. He's prone to hyperbole so extreme it
invalidates his points; he uses weasel words to load his
arguments; he uses ambiguity to pivot from one step to
another when there's really no connection. And of course
there's his constant dishonesty, not to mention his
inconsistency from one day (or even one post) to the
next, as well as the same mantra-like themes repeated
over and over again dressed up in different verbal
costumes as if they were brand-new insights.

Then there's the constant demonization of those who
don't agree with him. He can't seem to argue *for*
anything without at the same time putting down
anyone who believes differently.

In most cases, what he appears to do is start from his
conclusion, what he wants to believe (or wants his
readers to believe), and then work backward to put
together a train of thought that seems to lead to that
conclusion--but only if you don't examine it too
closely.

But he's very skilled with words; he knows how to make
what he's saying *sound* logical and persuasive. You
have to look past the fancy wordsmithing to the
structure and content of his arguments to see how
shallow and generally misbegotten they really are. All
flash and little substance.

My penchant for analyzing his posts and pointing out
their shortcomings was what got the feud started way
back on alt.m.t. At first, we had actual debates on
substance, but he had such a hard time with those
that eventually he gave up and resorted to attacking
me personally instead. Now, that's *all* he does
where I'm concerned, while I continue to dismantle
his arguments on substance.

 He, Rick and Curtis are the must read posts when
 I'm looking in on FFL.

Curtis is always a must-read. Obviously I don't always
agree with him, but there's often more insight in a
single one of his posts than Barry manages in many
months' worth. Rick has a knack for very straightforward,
no-nonsense presentation, complete with supporting facts.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[WillyTex]

  All this statement proves is your 
 prejudice against Hindus. 
 
Curtis:
 Just the snake-oil salesmen among them.

Don't you just hate those snake-oil salesmen!

Like the Maharishi, the Pope, and the Dalai 
Lama! Criminals! Gawd, who do they think they
are? Shouldn't there be a law against raising
money for causes like supporting orphans, 
promoting world peace and prosperity? 

It's just outrageous, this criminal activity!

  At the same time we're trying to provide 
  funds for Haitian orphans, you're making 
  fun of the Maharishi for trying to raise 
  funds for Hindu orphans. 
 
 He never gave a dime for such a cause.

But, I thought the Maharishi supported over 
20,000 pundit boys at the largest private 
school in India. Did you just tell a fib,
again?

 All cash went to his causes of self-promotion 
 and self-aggrandizement. His final wish was 
 raising money, not for orphans but monuments 
 to himself.
 
What money is that? Can you name a single TMO
enterprise that ever made any money?

 Erecting phallic monuments to the great 
 Maharishi.
 
If so, wouldn't he have named it 'Varma's 
Place'? You're not even making any sense, 
Curtis.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:
snip
 Then there's the constant demonization of those who
 don't agree with him. He can't seem to argue *for*
 anything without at the same time putting down
 anyone who believes differently.

Just wanted to add one point: If it weren't for his
constant vicious attacks on people and groups (and
entire countries) he doesn't like, I'd still probably
comment on his posts from time to time, but I'd be a
lot easier on him. I don't usually go after lamers
unless they make themselves obnoxious.

[FairfieldLife] Post Count

[FFL PostCount]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat Jan 30 00:00:00 2010
End Date (UTC): Sat Feb 06 00:00:00 2010
166 messages as of (UTC) Mon Feb 01 00:12:03 2010

25 authfriend jst...@panix.com
15 WillyTex willy...@yahoo.com
12 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com
12 TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 9 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com
 8 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 8 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com
 7 ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@netscape.net
 7 It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.r...@gmail.com
 7 Irmeli irmeli.matts...@netti.fi
 6 wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com
 6 Joe geezerfr...@yahoo.com
 6 Hugo richardhughes...@hotmail.com
 6 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net
 5 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 4 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com
 4 off_world_beings no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 4 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com
 4 John jr_...@yahoo.com
 3 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com
 2 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 2 BillyG wg...@yahoo.com
 1 shukra69 shukr...@yahoo.ca
 1 mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com
 1 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net
 1 Doug dhamiltony...@yahoo.com

Posters: 26
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote:

you're making 
   fun of the Maharishi for trying to raise 
   funds for Hindu orphans. 
  
  He never gave a dime for such a cause.
 
 But, I thought the Maharishi supported over 
 20,000 pundit boys at the largest private 
 school in India. Did you just tell a fib,
 again?


I never heard of them as being orphans, they were children from poor families.  
And I am conflicted about how I feel about this project.  

Part of me appreciates seeing an attempt to preserve the Vedic chanting 
tradition.  Not because I view it as having the place in human knowledge 
Maharishi did, but because it is an amazing part of our human past and it has a 
beauty that I appreciate.

On the other hand I see these kids as buying into a sexually restrictive life 
and religious indoctrination before they even know what their life options are. 
 On the other hand they may only have shitty options back home so maybe 3 hots 
and a cot is as good as it gets for them.  And if they help preserve a 
tradition for the future and come to believe in the project themselves who am I 
to criticize.  I don't really see how the whole no boner policy helps any 
religious tradition personally.

At least now I understand what you were talking about with the Hindu orphan 
deal.




 
 
 
 
 
   All this statement proves is your 
  prejudice against Hindus. 
  
 Curtis:
  Just the snake-oil salesmen among them.
 
 Don't you just hate those snake-oil salesmen!
 
 Like the Maharishi, the Pope, and the Dalai 
 Lama! Criminals! Gawd, who do they think they
 are? Shouldn't there be a law against raising
 money for causes like supporting orphans, 
 promoting world peace and prosperity? 
 
 It's just outrageous, this criminal activity!
 
   At the same time we're trying to provide 
   funds for Haitian orphans, you're making 
   fun of the Maharishi for trying to raise 
   funds for Hindu orphans. 
  
  He never gave a dime for such a cause.
 
 But, I thought the Maharishi supported over 
 20,000 pundit boys at the largest private 
 school in India. Did you just tell a fib,
 again?
 
  All cash went to his causes of self-promotion 
  and self-aggrandizement. His final wish was 
  raising money, not for orphans but monuments 
  to himself.
  
 What money is that? Can you name a single TMO
 enterprise that ever made any money?
 
  Erecting phallic monuments to the great 
  Maharishi.
  
 If so, wouldn't he have named it 'Varma's 
 Place'? You're not even making any sense, 
 Curtis.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Our nostalgia for Bush and Cheney

[mainstream20016]

The perpetual war constituency stokes fears repeatedly to justify the highly 
profitable military excursions throughout the world. 

Obama placates these interests knowing JFK paid the highest price for trying to 
dismantle the CIA post Bay of Pigs.

Even Eisenhower probably couldn't envision the military / industrial complex of 
 the 
Cheney /Bush/and now Obama era and the greatly expanded the role of private 
contractors who supplant the traditional armed services in all things military. 
 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 From Glenn Greenwald today:
 
 ...There is clearly a bipartisan and institutional 
 craving for a revival...of the core premise of 
 Bush/Cheney radicalism:  that because we're at 
 war with Terrorists, our standard precepts of 
 justice and due process do not apply and, indeed, 
 must be violated
 
 We collectively pretended for a little while to 
 regret the excesses of the Bush/Cheney approach to 
 such matters.  But it's now crystal clear that the 
 country, especially its ruling elite, is either too 
 petrified of Terrorism and/or too enamored of the 
 powers which that fear enables to accept any real 
 changes from the policies that were supposedly such 
 a profound violation of our values.
 
 ...What was once the most basic and defining
 American principle -- the State must charge someone
 with a crime and give them a fair trial in order to
 imprison them -- has been magically transformed into
 Leftist extremismRead the official policy of
 the Reagan Administration...:
 
 Another important measure we have developed in our 
 overall strategy is applying the rule of law to 
 terrorists. Terrorists are criminals. They commit 
 criminal actions like murder, kidnapping, and 
 arson, and countries have laws to punish criminals. 
 So a major element of our strategy has been to 
 delegitimize terrorists, to get society to see them 
 for what they are -- criminals -- and to use 
 democracy's most potent tool, the rule of law 
 against them
 
 How much clearer evidence can there be of how 
 warped and extremist we've become on these matters? 
 The express policies of the right-wing Ronald 
 Reagan...are now considered...the exclusive 
 province of civil liberties extremists.
 
 In those rare cases when Obama does what Reagan's 
 policy demanded...he is attacked as being Soft on 
 Terror by Democrats and Republicans alike.  And 
 the mere notion that we should prosecute torturers 
 (as Reagan bound the U.S. to do) -- or even hold 
 them accountable in ways short of criminal 
 proceedings -- is now the hallmark of a Far Leftist 
 Purist.  That's how far we've fallen, how extremist 
 our political consensus has become.
 
 Read more:
 
 http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/31/nostalgia/index.html
 
 http://tinyurl.com/ybnxfyu

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[Sal Sunshine]

On Jan 31, 2010, at 6:13 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:

 At least now I understand what you were talking about with the Hindu orphan 
 deal.

I remember hearing from at least one TB years ago
how they were supposedly Brahmin boys.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] i.e. What Nader is REALLY saying

[ShempMcGurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 It's not clear to me who this was sent to. I'll post that info when I find
 out.
  
 
  
 Here's a message from Maharaja ji today:
  
 I spoke this morning with Girish-ji and he lovingly welcomed the news



i.e. Girish doesn't really care for me (Nader) and looked at the news for any 
suggestion in it that could be used to belittle and diminish my stature in the 
Movement.



 but
 brought to my attention a delicacy in the notice sent by Raja Hagelin which






i.e. Girish found something in the announcement that he is working on so that a 
scism in the Movement can be created.  No matter how small the inconsistency, 
we all know we can count on Girish to eventually attempt to drive a Mac Truck 
through it.  But like the scheming little prick he is, he's going to let the 
delicacy fester for a while and then exploit it at that moment when it will 
have its greatest effect for his objectives.






 he had read to me before sending (but I had not carefully looked at it).



i.e. Oh, I looked at it all right and the final copy went through many, many 
drafts before Hagelin and I settled on a draft we were both happy with.  
Indeed, there was a back and forth between myself and Hagelin quite a bit. 
After all, this was to be a major announcement and probably one of the most 
important letters I will ever put my signature to.  We both knew how invested 
many cult members in the Movement were with the illusion that I was a life 
celibate and realized the potential for a visceral reaction on their part if we 
didn't handle it in just the right way.  That's why we spent hours upon hours 
on the letter to get it just right.

But in the interest of damage control and because that prick Girish wants to 
control the whole Movement, he is putting the pressure on me and I now have to 
back off at something in the letter to make him happy.  After all, that bastard 
has his fingers on the major shre of the Movement's purse strings and when he 
says dance I pretty well have to unless I want to see the Movement divided in 
two tomorrow.





 The following statement is not really accurate since Maharishi-ji never said
 to me the following in those terms: Maharishi had told him that, in the
 tradition of rulership, having the support of a Royal Family brought
 stability and strength to the Kingdom.



i.e. This is really going to piss off Hagelin because he knows the truth: both 
him and I went over that letter like a fine-tooth comb and he knows that I 
agreed to virtually everything in it before I released it.  

I gave him my solemn word.

But let's face it; I'm a doctor and scientist and I have no fucking clue how 
the machinations and infighting amongst political types in organisations like 
this take place.  And Girish is a master at it; and of course he manipulated me 
into saying that the passage in question is not accurate.  So I folded like a 
cheap deck chair on the Titanic.




 This is why it is best not to quote Maharishi in this regard. 




i.e. Of course Maharishi said it to me and of course I accurately represented 
his words in my letter.  But what can I do?  The Indian prick put the full 
court press on me...

Darn, I only wish I had tape recorded Maharishi on it so I could shut Girish 
up...


 Maharishi has
 been most delicate and quiet about it and all he told me directly when I
 personally was wondering what impact it will have was: .this will be good
 for The Movement..





i.e. My getting married was going to be a really big deal and I most certainly 
saw the potential for conflict if Maharishi expected me to be the figurehead of 
the Movement after he was gone.  Of course I wanted his blessing and assurances 
before taking the leap...and I got it.  Nothing delicate about it; I asked him 
I wanted to get married and he consented to it.







 Other thoughts were deductions from discussions and side
 allusions.



i.e. That prick Girish is making me do all sorts of intellectual gymnastics to 
weasel out of what I wrote in that letter.  Side illusions and deductions 
from discussion indeed!  I feel like Bill Clinton defining what the meaning of 
is is with Ken Starr breathing down his neck.





 Therefore please do not quote Maharishi in this (not even the above quote)
 and if asked just say that you personally were never told anything by
 Maharishi about it.



i.e. Girish made it clear to me in no uncertain terms that I am to reign in any 
suggestion that a Royal Family is good for the Movement and if I don't that he 
is going to bail pronto.




 We do not want to give an impression that this is a better path to follow
 than the path of Single life for a Raja or anyone in society.



i.e. Girish is having trouble getting laid and wants everyone else to be as 
miserable as he is.



 Maharishi
 emphasized, as I constantly do, the importance of Purusha life style. Why he
 blessed this situation? There 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[Joe]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 snip
  Then there's the constant demonization of those who
  don't agree with him. He can't seem to argue *for*
  anything without at the same time putting down
  anyone who believes differently.
 
 Just wanted to add one point: If it weren't for his
 constant vicious attacks on people and groups (and
 entire countries) he doesn't like, I'd still probably
 comment on his posts from time to time, but I'd be a
 lot easier on him. I don't usually go after lamers
 unless they make themselves obnoxious.


This from someone who called Curtis an IDIOT just a few days ago for 
disagreeing with her.

Who has the time for such nonsense?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote:

 On Jan 31, 2010, at 6:13 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 
  At least now I understand what you were talking about with the Hindu orphan 
  deal.
 
 I remember hearing from at least one TB years ago
 how they were supposedly Brahmin boys.

They would have to be.  As we all know a person's status is chosen from their 
birth and nothing they do in their life can give them a chance to aspire to a 
higher role than their parents had.  This was the Sanatana Dharma Guru Dev and 
Maharishi were so carefully protecting: the right to keep a brotha down!  The 
parents were probably as thrilled as those Irish families who gave one son to 
the priesthood to ensure their own place in heaven.


 
 Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfr...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  snip
   Then there's the constant demonization of those who
   don't agree with him. He can't seem to argue *for*
   anything without at the same time putting down
   anyone who believes differently.
  
  Just wanted to add one point: If it weren't for his
  constant vicious attacks on people and groups (and
  entire countries) he doesn't like, I'd still probably
  comment on his posts from time to time, but I'd be a
  lot easier on him. I don't usually go after lamers
  unless they make themselves obnoxious.
 
 This from someone who called Curtis an IDIOT just a few
 days ago for disagreeing with her.

Boy, you really have trouble with context, don't you,
Geeze? Non sequitur city, dude.

 Who has the time for such nonsense?

Obviously you do. Or is it that guy who's holding a gun
to your head, forcing you to read my posts and try to
communicate with me by leaving little turds at the end
of them?

Just like your pal Barry, you're a lamer *and* obnoxious.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

   snip[
   
   Isn't it convenient how this psychobabble excuses
   your behavior?
  
  You made up the shame spin on me not arguing with people
  who thought you were out of line for giving me shit when
  I came here.  The tribe spoke and you got voted off. 
  Deal with it.
 
 We could go back and look at that, Curtis, if you like.
 
 What actually happened

You are expressing your POV which differs from mine. It is very revealing that 
you would think of it as what actually happened.

 was that I was trying to *avoid*
 a hassle with you, told you to lay off, and you went
 right ahead anyway. 

What exactly do you think laying off might mean in a public board?  You 
warned me that you couldn't control your vitriol towards me and I didn't care 
if you went off. And as predicted, you did.  The group didn't dig it and said 
so.  Then you tried to pin it all on me, which failed since everyone could read 
all the posts and decide for themselves.

I've never understood why you took such offense to me telling you that I used 
to get pissed off at you and it made me write more back in the ALT Med era. I 
remember that as a key point in the breaking of our initial rapport.

Folks jumped on me for continuing
 to try to provoke you when in fact it was just the
 opposite. 

I wrote nothing provocative. You went off all on your own Judy.  As my record 
of posting since has validated, I didn't come to cause trouble with you.  Your 
little set up warning was an attempt to shift the blame for your own choice 
of being unpleasant to me.  

You knew that, and you let me take what you
 knew was a bad rap.

You got the exact rap you deserved.  I had no special knowledge any other 
readers didn't have.  The group didn't buy your story and you blamed me. Not 
for what I did but for what I didn't do that you somehow felt justified in 
expecting me to do.  You expected me to bail you out of your own self-created 
mess.  You are still trying this routine in blaming me for NOT getting involved 
in your Barry deal as if it is a ethical failing to not get involved.

 
 I just went back and reviewed what happened--it was
 in early May 2006--to make sure I was describing it
 accurately. You might want to do the same.
 
 No, come to think of it, I'm sure you won't want to.

I know what happened, we just don't see it the same way.
snip

   You are
  playing up your victim hood, it is a constant theme.
 
 No, Curtis, it's about *ethics*, not victimhood.

It is about your fixation that I don't share.  Trying to sell it as a noble 
mission wont get much traction from me.  

 
   Of course, we don't ever see Barry (or you) 
   complaining about being victimized.
   
   horselaugh
  
  Because that is not my filter.  I don't allow myself to
  be victimized.
 
 Oh, please, Curtis. Your whole mommy/daddy riff
 was a whine about how you were being victimized by
 my quoting you in a post to Barry. That you put a
 humorous spin on it doesn't change what you were
 communicating.

You missed my point.  By expressing that it made me feel icky to have my points 
used as weapons in your game I was rejecting the role of victim. Having fun 
writing a humorous reaction was how I dealt with my feelings and it worked.  

But I am beginning to come around to the idea that my victim theory my not be 
completely fair. Perhaps your responses are how you avoid being a victim just 
as it is for me.  So I am reconsidering this charge.  But you do portray 
yourself the victim of Barry's bad behavior frequently so I am still not 
sure.  

 
 I could dig up plenty of other instances of your
 complaining about how you're being treated. And you
 just got done complaining about Nabby calling you
 an idiot, remember?

I didn't complain about Nabby's typically mean-spirited remark.
I used it as a counter example to your claim that you would jump in if people 
said unfair things to me.  You made the claim to make it seem reasonable that 
you should judge me negatively for NOT jumping into your feud fixation.  As if 
this is everyone's moral duty here.  I object to that expectation and ensuing 
judgment.  We all pick our battles.

I am not even saying that you should stop the Barry thing, you enjoy it so it 
is none of my business.  But I choose to stay out of it and feel weird if what 
I write gets used in the battle.  By expressing it in humor I feel better 
without believing it will change your behavior.  If anything it will probably 
make you want to do it more to bother both Barry and me in one stroke.

snip

 
   You're quite right, Curtis, you aren't at your best
   when you're under fire.
  
  I don't enjoy your shame vibe.
 
 So it's perfectly OK for you to send a shame vibe my
 way by suggesting I was making you feel bad by
 quoting you in a post to Barry, and by pinning the
 grudge and victimhood labels on me, but it's not
 OK for me to point out what you're doing, right?

Everything is OK 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote:
 snip
  Barry, on the other hand, I find highly amusing and often
  insightful.
 
 See, that's what I was trying to get at. I have
 *never* found his posts insightful, since well before
 there was a feud per se. Sometimes he's mildly
 amusing, but most of his attempts at humor are labored
 and leaden.
 
 As I've said frequently, he's a sloppy thinker. His logic
 is poor; he bases his theses on unfounded (and often
 unspoken) assumptions; he rarely considers alternative
 possibilities. He's prone to hyperbole so extreme it
 invalidates his points; he uses weasel words to load his
 arguments; he uses ambiguity to pivot from one step to
 another when there's really no connection. And of course
 there's his constant dishonesty, not to mention his
 inconsistency from one day (or even one post) to the
 next, as well as the same mantra-like themes repeated
 over and over again dressed up in different verbal
 costumes as if they were brand-new insights.
 
 Then there's the constant demonization of those who
 don't agree with him. He can't seem to argue *for*
 anything without at the same time putting down
 anyone who believes differently.
 
 In most cases, what he appears to do is start from his
 conclusion, what he wants to believe (or wants his
 readers to believe), and then work backward to put
 together a train of thought that seems to lead to that
 conclusion--but only if you don't examine it too
 closely.
 
 But he's very skilled with words; he knows how to make
 what he's saying *sound* logical and persuasive. You
 have to look past the fancy wordsmithing to the
 structure and content of his arguments to see how
 shallow and generally misbegotten they really are. All
 flash and little substance.
 
 My penchant for analyzing his posts and pointing out
 their shortcomings was what got the feud started way
 back on alt.m.t. At first, we had actual debates on
 substance, but he had such a hard time with those
 that eventually he gave up and resorted to attacking
 me personally instead. Now, that's *all* he does
 where I'm concerned, while I continue to dismantle
 his arguments on substance.

But from the above paragraphs and given how you feel about his posts and the 
manner in which he presents ideas and argues, why do you even read them?  I 
know you continue to dismantle his arguments on substance, but why?  To me, 
it is certainly not as if Barry is changing as a result.  If there is anything 
to learn from all these years of back and forth, I don't think Barry has 
learned it.  Nor does he care to.  In fact, this type of interaction usually 
makes people grasp more strongly at their own style rather than changing.  So 
in my opinion, your posts are making Barry yet more irritating to you. Do you 
think your posts have had any effect on Barry at all?  I imagine that you are 
continuing to read and respond to his posts for other reasons.  Do you enjoy 
the process itself?  Do you feel compelled to read his posts?  Could you just 
not read Barry?


 
  He, Rick and Curtis are the must read posts when
  I'm looking in on FFL.
 
 Curtis is always a must-read. 

I agree, Curtis has lots to say and says it beautifully.  He is kind of wise, I 
would say.

Obviously I don't always
 agree with him, but there's often more insight in a
 single one of his posts than Barry manages in many
 months' worth. Rick has a knack for very straightforward,
 no-nonsense presentation, complete with supporting facts.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[Joe]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
   snip
Then there's the constant demonization of those who
don't agree with him. He can't seem to argue *for*
anything without at the same time putting down
anyone who believes differently.
   
   Just wanted to add one point: If it weren't for his
   constant vicious attacks on people and groups (and
   entire countries) he doesn't like, I'd still probably
   comment on his posts from time to time, but I'd be a
   lot easier on him. I don't usually go after lamers
   unless they make themselves obnoxious.
  
  This from someone who called Curtis an IDIOT just a few
  days ago for disagreeing with her.
 
 Boy, you really have trouble with context, don't you,
 Geeze? Non sequitur city, dude.
 
  Who has the time for such nonsense?
 
 Obviously you do. Or is it that guy who's holding a gun
 to your head, forcing you to read my posts and try to
 communicate with me by leaving little turds at the end
 of them?
 
 Just like your pal Barry, you're a lamer *and* obnoxious.

Why thank you Judith. You made my point better than I could have ever hoped to!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[Joe]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
   snip
Then there's the constant demonization of those who
don't agree with him. He can't seem to argue *for*
anything without at the same time putting down
anyone who believes differently.
   
   Just wanted to add one point: If it weren't for his
   constant vicious attacks on people and groups (and
   entire countries) he doesn't like, I'd still probably
   comment on his posts from time to time, but I'd be a
   lot easier on him. I don't usually go after lamers
   unless they make themselves obnoxious.
  
  This from someone who called Curtis an IDIOT just a few
  days ago for disagreeing with her.
 
 Boy, you really have trouble with context, don't you,
 Geeze? Non sequitur city, dude.
 
  Who has the time for such nonsense?
 
 Obviously you do. Or is it that guy who's holding a gun
 to your head, forcing you to read my posts and try to
 communicate with me by leaving little turds at the end
 of them?
 
 Just like your pal Barry, you're a lamer *and* obnoxious.

Why thank you Judith. You made my point better than I could have ever hoped to!

[FairfieldLife] Re: New Message from Raja Raam

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote:

 It's not clear to me who this was sent to. I'll post that info when I find
 out.
  
 
  
 Here's a message from Maharaja ji today:
  
 I spoke this morning with Girish-ji and he lovingly welcomed the news but
 brought to my attention a delicacy in the notice sent by Raja Hagelin which
 he had read to me before sending (but I had not carefully looked at it).

The words a delicacy are a really strange choice.

 The following statement is not really accurate since Maharishi-ji never said
 to me the following in those terms: Maharishi had told him that, in the
 tradition of rulership, having the support of a Royal Family brought
 stability and strength to the Kingdom.

How did Girish know that MMY had not said the above words?  Did he ask Raja 
Raam exactly what MMY said?  How very odd that he would do so.  If this really 
happened, I think there is lots more to the story.  Maybe King Tony felt guilty 
about misquoting MMY in trying to justify his situation.  He asked Girish what 
to do about it, and this is the solution.

 This is why it is best not to quote Maharishi in this regard. Maharishi has
 been most delicate and quiet about it and all he told me directly when I
 personally was wondering what impact it will have was: .this will be good
 for The Movement.. Other thoughts were deductions from discussions and side
 allusions.
 Therefore please do not quote Maharishi in this (not even the above quote)
 and if asked just say that you personally were never told anything by
 Maharishi about it.
 We do not want to give an impression that this is a better path to follow
 than the path of Single life for a Raja or anyone in society. Maharishi
 emphasized, as I constantly do, the importance of Purusha life style. Why he
 blessed this situation? There are many reasons but we do not need to
 necessarily get into them right now.
 You have all been wonderful and I am glad the time had come to share the
 news with all of you. It brings me great joy and a new sense of fullness to
 know that you are aware of this.
 With always renewed one pointed focus and inspiration to fulfill the goals
 Maharishi-ji has graced us with for the achievement of the highest for human
 kind and in deep gratitude to Him and all of you for the clarity of purpose,
 resolve and joyful dedication to His eternal guidance.
  
 Jai Guru Dev
  
  
 Raja Raam


I find this entire letter so odd. It's a joke, right?

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Spiritual Path As FUN

[lurkernomore20002000]

I have to say my take on this is competely different.  My feeling is
that Barry prefers not to bring this up.  Shemp in particulary loves to
excoriate Barry over this. And it appears that we have a second
corroboration of Lenz's levitation.  And what's wrong if the guy did
levitate. Don't we have reports of other levitation saints Okay, I
know what's coming next-calling Lenz a Saint?  Why lurk, you are a
buffoon.  But have you read a couple of the interviews he did-one early
in his career, and one later on?  I found them fascinating. If I had
knowledge of him during my TM years. I would have gone over.  One can
find all kinds of contradictions in his life.  But I percieved somethng
else that trumped those other contradictions. And no, I do not have a
mind to elevate him to some special status. I don't do that anymore. 
But some of the things he talked about rang pretty true for me.

People know what they experienced.  Not sure why there is such a need to
lampast someone elses experiences.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  I actually hate talking about all the flash that
  happened around Rama. Especially here, because
  people are so hungry for flash, and so jealous
  of it actually happening for other people, as
  opposed to only reading about it, or hearing it
  in other people's stories.

 Oh, bullcrap. You bring up Rama at every possible
 opportunity, *especially* the flash, exactly
 *because* you perceive it to inspire jealousy in
 others.

 It never occurs to you that, far from being
 jealous, they're mocking you for your preoccupation
 with it and the importance you accord it.

 You live, at least on this forum, to make others
 feel inferior to you. And you compulsively attribute
 all negative reaction to your self-exaltation to
 jealousy.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Message from Raja Raam

[It's just a ride]

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:34 PM, wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com wrote:




 I find this entire letter so odd. It's a joke, right?




It's got to be a joke.  Delicacy?  Don't quote, not even Maharishi?  Our
King of the Global Country and Spiritual Head of the Known Universe doesn't
speak or write in broken English.  This can't be a letter form Ram Raja.

-- 
While attending a Marriage Weekend, Walter and his wife, Ann, listened to
the instructor declare, 'It is essential that husbands and wives know the
things that are important to each other..

He then addressed the men,
'Can you name and describe your wife's favorite flower?'

Walter leaned over, touched Ann's arm gently, and whispered,
'Gold Medal-All-Purpose, isn't it?'

And thus began Walter's life of celibacy.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Message from Raja Raam

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of wayback71
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 9:35 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: New Message from Raja Raam
 
I find this entire letter so odd. It's a joke, right?
 
As far as I know, it's for real. I'll post more if I find out more.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yogastah Kuru Karmani

[lurkernomore20002000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote:

 Has anyone taken Barry's assertions serious enough to even google the
issue? You'd think that with thousands of followers, there'd be all
sorts of sites still dedicated to adoring Rama and that, online, there
would be ample citations of levitation to point at. Got any?

 Not worth the googling to me cuz any levitation in front of hundreds
of folks has to produce at least a 30% bystander-to-full-believer rate
of conversion, and those folks would be doing puja even now based on
that evidence. Where are they? And why is Barry so willing to spread the
news of levitation being a real phenomonum and yet he is no longer a
true believer? Edg, can you show me where Barry is pushing the agenda of
Lenz's leviation being a real phenomenom.   From what I can see, he is
just reporting what he experienced. You got a problem with that?  Do you
see him trying to convince anyone that it must be real.  I don't.  And
not backing down from what he experienced in the face of a lot of
ridicule from people around here.  Something wrong with that? 
Levitation, if real, is a very serious proof that the levitator, while
not necessarily enlightened, has mastered a siddhi that can only come
from having purified his mind to an almost perfect degree, and such a
mind would most likely be filled with deep insights and wisdom.

 Keep in mind that a few loaves and fishes did the same to manifest
true believers. So, any leader who could get even a 100 followers is
certain to have cameras always around; brought by those who would make
the leader into a idol. To have levitation witnessed once and not
captured on film is understandable; to have this happen many times and
not have at least one true believer be there ready for the moment with a
camera is not understandable. Hell, to imagine Barry not lugging a
camera around, given his addiction to name dropping, is a gimme. Where's
yer photos, Barry?

 When Barry weasels on this like he did by using cameras can't see
auras, as his reason for no photographic evidence, then, hey, what's
new in the wonderful world of rationalization?

 Let's face it: Barry could be sitting in his underwear in his Mom's
basement in Gary, Indiana; a 400 pound pock marked puter geek who makes
it look like his posts come from Europe enough to fool Alex; a stack of
pizza boxes next to him testifies why his keyboard is covered with the
gunk that can only come from pizza grease and dust commingling over
years; a pile of Kleenex tissues overflowing his basket that's next to
his bottle of Exxon Jumbo Lubricant; yellow teeth almost hidden by a
foul mortar of plaque; and let's complete this imagined scenario by
picturing him forming his nose mucus into small Judy voodoo dolls as he
awaits her next post.

 Just sayin!

 Edg


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote:
 
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote:
  
  
  
  Tell us the truth. Were you hallucinating
  when you saw the levitation?
 
   RD:
Too bad all those thousands of people who
experienced Rama levitating pre-mobile phone
days didn't upload a video of him hovering in
mid-air...
   
   Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands
   of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama
   followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in
   Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs
   is mentioned over forty times. Go figure.
  
   Even Mr. Lenz himself doesn't claim this siddhi
   in his book, 'Surfing the Himalayas'. Apparently
   it's much more fun to use a snowboard than to
   levitate. Floating face down in the water with
   a dog collar around his neck seems to be Fred's
   favorite magical show.
  
   Hovering in mid-air isn't even listed on Rama's
   own website where it mentions that Rama is a
   'Black Belt'.
  
   I'd suppose, if thousands of people saw Rama do
   hovering or turning rooms into golden light, at
   least more than one would have reported it by
   now. It's not mentioned by any of the former
   Lenz students who went over to Franklin Jones.
 
 
  Actually, I had a friend, a former TM teacher now deceased, who was
a student of Rama's around the time Barry must have been there. This
friend also talked of seeing Rama levitate on many occasions. He also
saw him move clouds around in an outside gathering and I think he said
Rama could make himself invisible (not sure on this one). This friend,
Jack, did not know exactly how the levitation or other things occurred,
but he was very certain he had seen them. As I recall, the outside
events were in the desert, so it would have been pretty difficult to fix
up the props of a magician.
 
  The last time I saw Jack, perhaps a year before he died, he was
still involved with Rama. But he refused to hug me hello, did not even
want to shake hands, and had some sort of compulsion about washing his
hands several times during dinner. I was never certain if those 

[FairfieldLife] Re: New Message from Raja Raam

[ShempMcGurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  It's not clear to me who this was sent to. I'll post that info when I find
  out.
   
  
   
  Here's a message from Maharaja ji today:
   
  I spoke this morning with Girish-ji and he lovingly welcomed the news but
  brought to my attention a delicacy in the notice sent by Raja Hagelin which
  he had read to me before sending (but I had not carefully looked at it).
 
 The words a delicacy are a really strange choice.
 
  The following statement is not really accurate since Maharishi-ji never said
  to me the following in those terms: Maharishi had told him that, in the
  tradition of rulership, having the support of a Royal Family brought
  stability and strength to the Kingdom.
 
 How did Girish know that MMY had not said the above words?



Very good point.




  Did he ask Raja Raam exactly what MMY said?



This would have had to be what happened.  

But is Girish so in tune with Maharishi's thinking that he knew that Maharishi 
didn't say it?

Of was it that Hagelin jumped the gun?

I think not.  I think that both Hagelin and Nader are 100 times more in tune 
with Maharishi's thinking than that creep Girish.

Girish is making trouble because Girish fashions himself as a Maharishi and 
MMY's successor.  One need only look at that photo someone recently posted here 
to see that.


  How very odd that he would do so.  If this really happened, I think there is 
 lots more to the story.  Maybe King Tony felt guilty about misquoting MMY in 
 trying to justify his situation.  He asked Girish what to do about it, and 
 this is the solution.
 
  This is why it is best not to quote Maharishi in this regard. Maharishi has
  been most delicate and quiet about it and all he told me directly when I
  personally was wondering what impact it will have was: .this will be good
  for The Movement.. Other thoughts were deductions from discussions and side
  allusions.
  Therefore please do not quote Maharishi in this (not even the above quote)
  and if asked just say that you personally were never told anything by
  Maharishi about it.
  We do not want to give an impression that this is a better path to follow
  than the path of Single life for a Raja or anyone in society. Maharishi
  emphasized, as I constantly do, the importance of Purusha life style. Why he
  blessed this situation? There are many reasons but we do not need to
  necessarily get into them right now.
  You have all been wonderful and I am glad the time had come to share the
  news with all of you. It brings me great joy and a new sense of fullness to
  know that you are aware of this.
  With always renewed one pointed focus and inspiration to fulfill the goals
  Maharishi-ji has graced us with for the achievement of the highest for human
  kind and in deep gratitude to Him and all of you for the clarity of purpose,
  resolve and joyful dedication to His eternal guidance.
   
  Jai Guru Dev
   
   
  Raja Raam
 
 
 I find this entire letter so odd. It's a joke, right?



I don't think it's a joke.  A joke wouldn't be so weirdly written.  It smells 
of intrigue just as one would expect in the TMO.

But you're right: there must be much, much more to this story.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
snip[

Isn't it convenient how this psychobabble excuses
your behavior?
   
   You made up the shame spin on me not arguing with people
   who thought you were out of line for giving me shit when
   I came here.  The tribe spoke and you got voted off. 
   Deal with it.
  
  We could go back and look at that, Curtis, if you like.
  
  What actually happened
 
 You are expressing your POV which differs from mine. It
 is very revealing that you would think of it as what
 actually happened.

Unbelievable. It's exactly what happened. Anybody can
go back and verify it for themselves.

  was that I was trying to *avoid*
  a hassle with you, told you to lay off, and you went
  right ahead anyway. 
 
 What exactly do you think laying off might mean in a
 public board?

Same thing it means anywhere else. Don't play stupid.

 You warned me that you couldn't control your vitriol
 towards me and I didn't care if you went off.

No. I said I *was* controlling it, and that you
might want to think about whether you really
wanted to set me off.

Obviously, you did want to set me off. You kept 
working at it, and eventually you succeeded.

 And as predicted, you did.  The group didn't dig it
 and said so.  Then you tried to pin it all on me,
 which failed since everyone could read all the posts
 and decide for themselves.

Most people don't read the posts carefully enough to
be able to analyze what's going on in an exchange like
this. You knew they hadn't gotten it. You engineered
the whole thing, getting back at me for our alt.m.t
clashes. And that was despite the effort I made when
you first joined us here to be cordial.

 I've never understood why you took such offense to me
 telling you that I used to get pissed off at you and it
 made me write more back in the ALT Med era. I remember
 that as a key point in the breaking of our initial rapport.

You bet it was. See post #97718 to refresh your
memory. You turned tail and ran after that.

 You expected me to bail you out of your own self-created
 mess.

It was Curtis-created. And my expectation was that
you'd tell the truth about how it developed.

 You are still trying this routine in blaming me for
 NOT getting involved in your Barry deal as if it is
 a ethical failing to not get involved.

It's an ethical failing in my book not to defend
someone who's being viciously lied about. But it
wouldn't have come up if you hadn't done your whine
about my quoting you.

snip
  Oh, please, Curtis. Your whole mommy/daddy riff
  was a whine about how you were being victimized by
  my quoting you in a post to Barry. That you put a
  humorous spin on it doesn't change what you were
  communicating.
 
 You missed my point.  By expressing that it made me
 feel icky to have my points used as weapons in your
 game I was rejecting the role of victim.

Who offered you the role of victim? As I said before,
I've *never* seen anybody complain about being
victimized because somebody quoted them in a post
to someone else, unless they were misrepresented,
which you were not. If you felt icky, that was
something you offered yourself.

snip
 But I am beginning to come around to the idea that my
 victim theory my not be completely fair. Perhaps your
 responses are how you avoid being a victim just as it
 is for me.

It never *occurs* to me to consider myself a victim.
That's just ludicrous.

 So I am reconsidering this charge.  But you do portray
 yourself the victim of Barry's bad behavior frequently
 so I am still not sure.

As I already said: There's a difference between
portraying oneself as a victim and portraying someone
else as a (would-be) victimizer. I'm doing the latter.
I often use Barry's attacks on me as examples of his
attempts to victimize because there's so many of
them, but I don't limit myself to those by any means.

  I could dig up plenty of other instances of your
  complaining about how you're being treated. And you
  just got done complaining about Nabby calling you
  an idiot, remember?
 
 I didn't complain about Nabby's typically mean-spirited
 remark. I used it as a counter example to your claim that
 you would jump in if people said unfair things to me.

That's a ridiculous counter-example, for reasons I
already pointed out.

 You made the claim to make it seem reasonable that you
 should judge me negatively for NOT jumping into your
 feud fixation.  As if this is everyone's moral duty here.
 I object to that expectation and ensuing judgment.

You're right, I *do* consider it a moral duty. I do it
pretty frequently. I've even defended *Barry* from
unfair attacks.

I don't typically defend anybody from folks like Nabby
and Willytex and Off_World, for reasons that should be
obvious. I do do it with people who are generally
taken seriously.

 We all pick our battles.
 
 I am not even saying that you should stop 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Spiritual Path As FUN

[ShempMcGurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... 
wrote:



[snip]



 
  Oh, bullcrap. You bring up Rama at every possible
  opportunity, 


[snip]


A visit to Google Groups Advanced Search and a search on Lenz in just 
alt.meditation.transcendental returns over 1,200 hits.

Now some of those 1,200 I suspect were of WillyTex mentioning Rama, which he 
often does.  But how many do you think were initiated by Barry?

My guess is a WHOLE lot.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 waybac...@... wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
snip
  My penchant for analyzing his posts and pointing out
  their shortcomings was what got the feud started way
  back on alt.m.t. At first, we had actual debates on
  substance, but he had such a hard time with those
  that eventually he gave up and resorted to attacking
  me personally instead. Now, that's *all* he does
  where I'm concerned, while I continue to dismantle
  his arguments on substance.
 
 But from the above paragraphs and given how you feel
 about his posts and the manner in which he presents
 ideas and argues, why do you even read them?

Because others read them and are influenced by them.

snip
 I imagine that you are continuing to read and respond to
 his posts for other reasons.  Do you enjoy the process
 itself?

Not particularly, no. It's kind of a slog, frankly.

 Do you feel compelled to read his posts?  Could you just
 not read Barry?

Somebody needs to get on the record what a malicious
phony he is. If somebody else wanted to take over the
task of exposing his sophistry, I'd be delighted to
retire.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Spiritual Path As FUN

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... 
wrote:
 
 I have to say my take on this is competely different.  My
 feeling is that Barry prefers not to bring this up.

Oh, please. He injects it into every conversation
that gives him an opening to do so.

 Shemp in particulary loves to excoriate Barry over this.

That's one reason why Barry does it, to get Shemp
going so he can claim Shemp is jealous.

 And it appears that we have a second
 corroboration of Lenz's levitation.  And what's wrong if
 the guy did levitate.

Not a thing. It's the way Barry uses it that's the
problem, as I said:

snip
  Oh, bullcrap. You bring up Rama at every possible
  opportunity, *especially* the flash, exactly
  *because* you perceive it to inspire jealousy in
  others.
 
  It never occurs to you that, far from being
  jealous, they're mocking you for your preoccupation
  with it and the importance you accord it.
 
  You live, at least on this forum, to make others
  feel inferior to you. And you compulsively attribute
  all negative reaction to your self-exaltation to
  jealousy.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Spiritual Path As FUN

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote:
snip
[I wrote:]
   Oh, bullcrap. You bring up Rama at every possible
   opportunity, 
 
 [snip]
 
 A visit to Google Groups Advanced Search and a search
 on Lenz in just alt.meditation.transcendental returns
 over 1,200 hits.
 
 Now some of those 1,200 I suspect were of WillyTex
 mentioning Rama, which he often does.

Barry more often calls him Rama, or just refers to a
teacher he used to study with without naming him.

Thing is, a lot of those 1,200+ hits would be of
other people quoting Barry's posts, so you can't
really tell. You have to specify the author on the
search form.

As I recall, he didn't use to mention Rama as often
on alt.m.t as he has here. But he was *on* alt.m.t
about twice as long as he's been here.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's Maharaja Adhiraj Rajaraam is married with 2 daughters

[curtisdeltablues]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote:

  You warned me that you couldn't control your vitriol
  towards me and I didn't care if you went off.
 
 No. I said I *was* controlling it, and that you
 might want to think about whether you really
 wanted to set me off.

ME set YOU off.  Thanks for giving me all your power.

 
 Obviously, you did want to set me off. You kept 
 working at it, and eventually you succeeded.

Everybody needs a dream.  I wanted to be the one person in the history of a TM 
discussion board to set you off.  It was an almost insurmountable task and I 
know that many had failed in the past, but I put my heart and soul into it.  
Yup.  One might even say you were a victim.

 
  And as predicted, you did.  The group didn't dig it
  and said so.  Then you tried to pin it all on me,
  which failed since everyone could read all the posts
  and decide for themselves.
 
 Most people don't read the posts carefully enough to
 be able to analyze what's going on in an exchange like
 this. You knew they hadn't gotten it. You engineered
 the whole thing, getting back at me for our alt.m.t
 clashes. And that was despite the effort I made when
 you first joined us here to be cordial.
 

Nice taking responsibility there Judy. What an evil genius I must be in your 
mind.  And you even know my motive for my diabolical scheme!

I had nothing to get you back for from the past, I had a blast on AMT and your 
relentless attacks were a part of it.  I told you that when I joined here.  

The consensus opinion at the time did not follow your evil Curtis angle. I seem 
to have much more respect for the ability of the posters here to see through 
any such bizarre schemes than you do.  What went on was obvious and not too 
subtle for a casual reader to grasp.  I was disappointed by your reaction then 
as I am now.

Snip

 It was Curtis-created. And my expectation was that
 you'd tell the truth about how it developed.

That was very weird Judy. We will never see eye to eye on this. 





 -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
 snip[
 
 Isn't it convenient how this psychobabble excuses
 your behavior?

You made up the shame spin on me not arguing with people
who thought you were out of line for giving me shit when
I came here.  The tribe spoke and you got voted off. 
Deal with it.
   
   We could go back and look at that, Curtis, if you like.
   
   What actually happened
  
  You are expressing your POV which differs from mine. It
  is very revealing that you would think of it as what
  actually happened.
 
 Unbelievable. It's exactly what happened. Anybody can
 go back and verify it for themselves.
 
   was that I was trying to *avoid*
   a hassle with you, told you to lay off, and you went
   right ahead anyway. 
  
  What exactly do you think laying off might mean in a
  public board?
 
 Same thing it means anywhere else. Don't play stupid.
 
  You warned me that you couldn't control your vitriol
  towards me and I didn't care if you went off.
 
 No. I said I *was* controlling it, and that you
 might want to think about whether you really
 wanted to set me off.
 
 Obviously, you did want to set me off. You kept 
 working at it, and eventually you succeeded.
 
  And as predicted, you did.  The group didn't dig it
  and said so.  Then you tried to pin it all on me,
  which failed since everyone could read all the posts
  and decide for themselves.
 
 Most people don't read the posts carefully enough to
 be able to analyze what's going on in an exchange like
 this. You knew they hadn't gotten it. You engineered
 the whole thing, getting back at me for our alt.m.t
 clashes. And that was despite the effort I made when
 you first joined us here to be cordial.
 
  I've never understood why you took such offense to me
  telling you that I used to get pissed off at you and it
  made me write more back in the ALT Med era. I remember
  that as a key point in the breaking of our initial rapport.
 
 You bet it was. See post #97718 to refresh your
 memory. You turned tail and ran after that.
 
  You expected me to bail you out of your own self-created
  mess.
 
 It was Curtis-created. And my expectation was that
 you'd tell the truth about how it developed.
 
  You are still trying this routine in blaming me for
  NOT getting involved in your Barry deal as if it is
  a ethical failing to not get involved.
 
 It's an ethical failing in my book not to defend
 someone who's being viciously lied about. But it
 wouldn't have come up if you hadn't done your whine
 about my quoting you.
 
 snip
   Oh, please, Curtis. Your whole mommy/daddy riff
   was a whine about how you were being victimized by
   my quoting you in a post to Barry. That you put a
   humorous spin on it doesn't change what you were
   communicating.
  
  You missed my point.  By expressing 

[FairfieldLife] Re: 1957

[Doug]

1980
Maharishi's Year of
Pure Knowledge, the Ved

Maharishi celebrates the upsurge of pure knowledge
in world consciousness, and reveals the nature
of the Ved in terms of the spontaneous, sequential flow of the eternal, 
self-referral state of consiousness.

Maharishi brings to light his timeless commentary
on Rig Ved, the Apaurusheya Bhashya, which explains the
structure of the Ved and its extension, the universe,
lively within every point of consciousness, 
the Self of everyone.

 
 1979
 Maharishi's Year of
 All Possibilities
 
 Maharishi clebrates the upsurge of 
 the organizing power of nature
 in world consciousness.
 
 Maharishi begins his commentary on
 Rig Ved, the Apaurusheya Bhashya.
 
 The First Annual World Peace Assembly of Governors
 of the Age of Enlightenment is held in
 the U.S.A. to create coherence in national and 
 world consciousness.
  
  
  1978
  Maharishi's Year of
  Invincibility to Every Nation
  
  Realization of the Extended
  Maharishi Effect, Maharishi celebrates
  the rise of global coherence and
  proclaims invincibilty to
  every nation.
  
   
   1977
   Maharishi's Year of Ideal Society
   
   Maharishi envisions the creation of an ideal society
   through the Transcendental Meditation and TM-Sidhi program,
   and inaugurates the Ideal Society Campaign in 108 countries.
   Scientific research verified that this campaign decreased negative trends 
   and increased positive trends in society.  Crime rate went down in every 
   area of the campaign, and police management everywhere enjoyed the credit.


 
  
   1976
   
   Maharishi introduced the TM-Sidhi program
   and starts to train Governors of the Age of 
   Enlightenment to function from the Unified
   Field of all the Laws of Nature to purify
   world consciousness.
  
  

 This is the start of a new theme of action, 
an ideal path of performance 
following the principle of least action,
which upholds all activity in nature-  Maharishi's
principle of do less and accomplish more through
 the help of natural law.

This is to give a new theme to life on earth, 
progressive life without
stress, strain, and fatigue, through alliance
with the total potential of natural law.

  
  
  
  1976  (continued)
   Maharishi's Year of Government
 
  Maharishi inaugurates the  World Government
  Of the Age of Enlightenment, a non-political,
  Non-religious global organization, with sovereignty
  In the domain of consciousness, authority in the invincible power
  Of Natural Law, and activity in purifying world
  Consciousness with the participation of the people of over 
  120 countries and with 1,200 Maharishi Capitals of the Age of 
  Enlightenment
  around the world.
  
  
   
   
   
1975
Maharishi's Year of the
Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment

With the discovery of the Maharishi Effect
the profound nature of Maharishi's Creative
Intelligence is further validated.  The
Maharishi Effect demonstrates that 
the collective life of a society or nation can 
be fully developed and enriched through a small proportion
of the population practicing Maharishi's
Transcendental Meditation.
   
   
   1975  (continued)
   
   The 'Maharishi Effect' establishes a new formula for the creation 
   of an ideal society, free from crime and problems.  With this, 
   Maharishi envisions the dawn of a new age for humankind- the Age 
   of Enlightenment.
   
   On January 12, Maharishi inaugurates the Dawn of the Age of 
   Enlightenment for the whole world in Switzerland, and travels to 
   all six continents inaugurating the Dawn of the Age of 
   Enlightenment for each continent.  The Dawn of the Age of 
   Enlightenment brings the first wave of fulfillment of Maharishi's 
   World Plan.
   
   Maharishi establishes Maharishi European Research University to 
   monitor the rise of the Age of Enlightenment in all parts of the 
   world, and to investigate the full range of possibilities 
   inherent in human consciousness. 

 1974
 Maharishi's Year of 
 Achievement of the World Plan
 
 The Discovery of the Maharishi Effect:
 one percent of the population practicing
 the Transcendental Meditation program in
 any city reduces negative tendencies, such
 as crime, accident, and sickness rates, and
 increases positive tendencies throughout
 society.
 
  
  1973
  Maharishi's Year of
  Action for the World Plan
  
  More than 2,000 World Plan Centers are
  established in all parts of the world,
  offering courses in the Science of
 

[FairfieldLife] All this Time

[John]

Sting sings his own style of the blues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OlaPBwfjYfeature=related