[FairfieldLife] Re: Sat Eve Lynch / Donovan

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Can you imagine a concert / telecast / podcast / DVD on Love, Peace
> > > and Consciousness -- with Donovan, Paul McCartney, Mike Love, Joni
> > > Mitchell,  -- possibly Robbie Krieger and other remaining Doors, etc.
> > > -- With lynch and Heather Graham as MCs. 
> > 
> > 
> > As Rollergirl?
> > 
> > Naked?
> > 
> > How about Chloe Sevigny from "Brown Bunny"?
> > 
> > 
> I'm a Chloe Sevigny  fan -- does she do TM?
>

Don't know, but she is on a new HBO series called Big Love, about polygamy in a 
Mormopn 
family. She is one of 3 wives of a successful businessman.  Wonderful actors.  
 If you are intererested in a fascinating book on fundalmentalist Mormon 
history and 
Mormon sects, and the general history of Mormonism, read Jon Krakauer's Under 
the 
Banner of Heaven.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: FF neighborhood meditation halls, : Global Family Chat March 18th

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 3/23/06 2:16 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > Also, the TMO is working hard to make educators aware of the potential
> > of TM as well as of the financing available to take advantage of it:
> 
> They shouldn't bother, because as soon as the educators get wind of rajas,
> Hail Mugabe, and rebuilding all the world's cities, they'll run scared.
> OTOH, they may go to Mike Scozzari, Farrokh, and other independent teachers
> who'll teach TM pure and simple, at a reasonable price.
>

I work in a public school in a very wealthy district and here is the deal, at 
least at this point 
in time.  No USA public school like mine will promote any technique like TM 
within the 
school, even with new and better research. They might be impressed with the 
research, 
but they will think it is up to parents and their students to do this kind of 
thing on their 
own (like get braces, buy glasses, see the doctor, get tutoring).  Another 
reason -, once 
they promote TM in a school, then other parents will say why not present a 
lecture on Zen,  
or mindfulness, or whatever.  And with everyone careful not to be liable for 
anything at all, 
they would even wonder about negative results.  Not to mention the subset of 
parents who 
will scream that this is Hinduism ...Finally, with all these sharp parents 
checking 
everything in the world out on the Internet, they would have the TMO's number 
in a flash - 
all the raja and crown and jyotish stuff would end it pronto. What an uproar!!!
I love TM and believe it would help most students, but if you want to learn TM, 
learn it.  
You want help paying for it, go to David Lynch.  But don't mix TM and public 
education.  It 
is a waste of time here in the US, from a common sense perspective, but then 
much of this 
TMO stuff has nothing to do with that anyway.

PS The David Lynch Foundation website is really well done. HIs heart is in 
this, I think.  A 
very generous offer.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Phase to say when someone is dying

[wayback71]

Rick isn't making sly little digs about the behaviors he has witnessed.  My 
take on it is that 
he has wrestled with this disconnect between the expectations he had for an 
Enlightened 
Master's behavior, and the actual behavior.  It is a valid thing to puzzle 
over, given the 
descriptions presented by MMY himself about proper, or enlightened, action.  
There have 
been hundreds and hundreds of posts here over the years discussing this very 
topic, and 
lots of theories tossed about.  For those of us who do not or cannot deny the 
behaviors 
that disappoint, there is a lot to think about and no real answer that the mind 
can provide.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Rick just can't resist the sly little dig, the notion that MMY's behavior was 
>  
> "abnormal." Never seen anyone get impatient or angry at being asked dumb 
> questions? I'd say it was very normal. 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> >
> > on 3/21/06 11:31 PM, a_non_moose_ff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > We were in long rounding and someone passed up a note with a question
> > > about bathing. They said a "teacher" had told them not to bath right
> > > after asanas or mediating so "when can we bath, since we are doing
> > > asanas or meditating all the time?" M. "hit the roof", "furious",
> > > paraphrasing -- "what teacher is telling you this?! I didn't give
> > > such instructions. Who is giving instructions counter to mine. You are
> > > rounding all the time. Of course you will be bathing sometimes after
> > > TM or asanas. Who told you not to do this "
> > 
> > He mentioned this often on early courses. He said bathing would wash the
> > ojas off the skin. What bothers me about this account is that he would often
> > get so furious over trivial things. Something abnormal about that IMO.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Phase to say when someone is dying

[wayback71]

This is great, DR. Pete. I always think someone will make an expose or 
documentary about 
the TMO.  But really, a comedy needs to made about some of our experiences.  
When we 
retire and have some time we should get a group together and brain storm all 
the funny 
stuff and all the ridiculous but good hearted possibile scenarios.  We would 
not be able to 
stop laughing.  We have FABULOUS material, some fine writers etc etc

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is just so much magical crap. Why not say "These
> boots are made for walking". It will have just as much
> impact as a sanskrit phrase that has absolutely no
> meaning outside of a particular culture. I can just
> see some poor old dad dying, just about to slip the
> body and his skinny, pastey looking, broke, unmarried,
> eternally meditating son whispers in his right ear,
> "Thiru Neela Kantam" Dad, suddenly regains some
> awareness and says, "What did you say?" His son
> repeats, "Thiru Neela Kantam". His dad says, "Son,
> you're goin' daft on me, take care of your ma, will
> ya." And with that he croaks. 
> 
> --- sinhlnx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > ---Phrase to say when somebody is dying.  Repeating
> > a phrase alone is
> > insufficient. One must have a degree of Shakti
> > (which you do, as a TM
> > practitioner); but along with the foregoing, one
> > must have INTENT.
> > What is your intention for the dying person?.  Think
> > on it clearly and
> > chant "Thiru Neela Kantam" over and over.  This
> > means "Holy Blue
> > Throat";  a reference to Shiva, and is designed to
> > eradicate bad
> > karma.  Keep in mind the main lesson of the Tibetan
> > Book of the Dead:
> > Immediately after death, the person may begin anew
> > with various
> > attractions to the same types of things that were
> > alluring while
> > alive.. YOUR mind must assist the person in breaking
> > the connections
> > to any lower astral/material attractions, and propel
> > the person
> > directly into the pure realm of the Absolute.
> > 
> > 
> >  In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > From a friend. Anyone know the answer to this?:
> > > 
> > > I've heard that there is some phrase that helps
> > someone passing 
> > on.that
> > > is to be whispered to them as they pass.  Do you
> > know  of this?
> > >   
> > >   Looks like we will be leaving for () tonight as
> > my husband�s dad
> > won't be
> > > around much longermaybe not even 24 hours.
> > >   
> > >   I don't think I can do a puja there but I
> > remember someone somewhere
> > > telling me about this phrase.
> > >   
> > >   Thanks.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Or go to: 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > and click 'Join This Group!' 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Phase to say when someone is dying

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Reply below:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Comment below:
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis"
> 
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > >  
> > > > > > Vak is Ma Saraswati.  Maharishi said to whisper Vak into the
> > > newborn's
> > > > > > ear three times so that the person would be reminded of where
> > > they had
> > > > > > just come from and thereby re-orient them towards the
> > Transcendent. 
> > > > > > As I remember it, he wasn't commenting about an Indian
> custom but
> > > > > > precribing a specific action at a specific juncture.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I strongly disagree that he was prescribing a technique to use.
> > > > > Were you on that course? (Mallorca spring 71) . As I recall it
> was 
> > > > > not given as a "technique" -- it was a comment on an ancient
> > practice.
> > > > >  As I said, on a later course, he definately said it was not a
> > > > > "technique". I  heard both comments live.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > A few years later, I was on a course where someone asked M about
> > > "the
> > > > > > baby technique" -- what to whisper in a new born's ear. M was
> > > > > > "furious". Going on and on about there is no baby technique
> > and what
> > > > > > he had said about a practice in ancient India was not a
> > technique to
> > > > > > use  and how could people be so stupid .." paraphrasing
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I followed his
> > > > > > instructions 
> > > > > 
> > > > > You received specific personal instructions from him?  Did he
> or you
> > > > > do a puja? I can't remember any specific techniques he ever gave
> > when
> > > > > a puja was not done. He even had us do a puja for a breathing
> > > > > technique we gave to initial flying block students.
> > > > >
> > > > **END**
> > > > 
> > > > I was on the Mallorca/Fiuggi course.
> > 
> > 
> > I was in Fuiggi also, for rounding. I was thinking about another
> > instance of M's displearure at misinterpretation of "instructions" --
> > I think it was at that course. Perhaps it was another. 
> > 
> > We were in long rounding and someone passed up a note with a question
> > about bathing. They said a "teacher" had told them not to bath right
> > after asanas or mediating so "when can we bath, since we are doing
> > asanas or meditating all the time?" M. "hit the roof", "furious",
> > paraphrasing -- "what teacher is telling you this?! I didn't give
> > such instructions. Who is giving instructions counter to mine. You are
> > rounding all the time. Of course you will be bathing sometimes after
> > TM or asanas. Who told you not to do this "  
> > 
> > The "misunderstanding" came from the asnas booklet, I think, which
> > said to bath before asanas. To me, it pointed out the problem of
> > extrapolating some comment to other contexts. My sense  is this is
> > what happened with the Vak comments. People heard directly, others
> > heard 2nd or 3rd hand, and "extrapoloated" this was something to be
> > done to all newborns. From the follwo up lecture I heard,  it was
> > clear to me, M did not intend this, and did not give specific
> > directions to use this as a technique.
> > 
> > I am curious, do you remember him specifically saying "You should all
> > do this ...". Or did you extrapolate that from him citing a practice
> > -- in a general reference? 
> > 
> > If it was a "technique" to be practiced, why didn't he specifically
> > give TM teachers instructions on how to do, and create "baby"
> > initiations, to supplement the formal "childrens" technique all
> > teachers were taught. It seems odd to me he would not do the above if
> > he intended it as a formal technique.
> >
> **END**
> 
> Two things: there was no intention on my part to dispute your own
> recollections of what you heard Maharishi say.  We may both be
> accurate in our memories; Maharishi wasn't always consistent.
> 
> And two, you might be correct, and I may have taken what I heard as
> instructions that he may not necessarily have meant as such.  He
> certainly did not say that "you should all do this" or any other
> similar reference.  And I did not take what he said as a "technique"
> in the sense that you refer: as some sort of adjunct or precursor to
> TM, part of the formal teaching of meditation.  
> 
> However, I *did* take it as a specific directive and acted
> appropriately.  I never spoke about it (till now) except with my
> (then) spouse who had also similarly heard and understood what
> Maharishi said on the issue.  I never taught it.  I just followed it.
>  I'm glad that I did.
>

My spouse and I were also on Mallorca Fiug

[FairfieldLife] Re: Phase to say when someone is dying

[wayback71]

I recall that saying "wok,wok,wok" was to be done at birth, the first sounds 
that the child 
hears.  I cannot remember why exactly, but someone on this site must know.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


>
> On TTC in Mallorca, Jan-June 1971, Brahmarishi Devarat and his son
> (who looked like Tonto from the Lone Ranger) were often at meetings
> and we would ask Devarat question after question and Maharishi was our
> interpreter. My appeared to be having great fun in this job, he often
> found Devarat's answers both funny and illuminating. 
> 
> Someone asked him this question-if there is anything we can say to
> someone who is dying. As near as I can recall, he told us to say, in
> the person's ear, *wok, wok, wok*   I believe it is actually spelled
> vak and I also think I remember it is translated as *speech* or
> *sound*   I cannot remember the reason for saying this. 
> 
> I know for me, having been in the presence of several people/pets at
> the moment they made this transition out of life, I have done various
> things, depending on what was in my heart/mind to do at this time.
> Sometimes it was whispering the mantras I know (as a TM teacher, and
> whether or not the person was a TM meditator), sometimes/in addition
> it was the puja, or om namah shivaya.
> 
> I would suggest to do something very personal and very meaningful to
> you at that time. I mean, who really knows. Does anyone think that you
> can somehow help a person circumvent their personal karma just by
> saying the right thing at their moment of death?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
> wrote:
> >
> > From a friend. Anyone know the answer to this?:
> > 
> > I've heard that there is some phrase that helps someone passing 
> on.that
> > is to be whispered to them as they pass.  Do you know  of this?
> >   
> >   Looks like we will be leaving for () tonight as my husband¹s dad
> won't be
> > around much longermaybe not even 24 hours.
> >   
> >   I don't think I can do a puja there but I remember someone somewhere
> > telling me about this phrase.
> >   
> >   Thanks.
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Latest press conference - for J Stein

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > I had no idea the Beatles were meditating when I learned TM.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I knew they had been involved with MMY when I learned
> > > > > in 1976, but as much as I adored them as a singing
> > > > > group, their participation would have been a minus
> > > > > rather than a plus if they'd still been touting TM.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I remember in the late '60s, a friend of my age wrote
> > > > > me enthusiastically quoting something she'd read that
> > > > > MMY had said in some account of his involvement with
> > > > > the Beatles: "I am That, you are That, all this is
> > > > > That."  She was impressed.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I thought, Wow, the Beatles (not to mention my friend)
> > > > > can't be very discerning if they're falling for that
> > > > > kind of meaningless mystical nonsense.
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Maybe its different with the generation I understand you belong
> > > > > > to - that big spoiled, lard-assed congregation of whining no-
> > > > > > gooders born just after WWII, whose sole accomplishment was to
> > > > > > roll in the mud at Woodstock and being a nuisance ever after.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I was born in 1942; I've always been a bit wistful about
> > > > > not having come along a few years later so I could have
> > > > > been part of the Woodstock generation.  Sounds to me as
> > > > > though you wish you could have been as well.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Get your ears checked - or learn how to read.
> > > 
> > > Actually I was talking about a river in Egypt
> > > where you're concerned.
> > >
> > 
> > I am embarrased, I just realized I was exchanging insults with a
> > 64-year old. 
> > 
> > Please forgive me Mrs Stein, and do turn on the hearing aid until the
> > next time the nice folks in white coats comes knocking at your door.
> >
> 
> Judy, Nature is here to teach you a lesson! Here is the perfect example of a 
> post that you  
> need to ignore.  Forget the ignorance, the lack of honesty, the subtle anger, 
> the 
> unkindness, the inaacuracies. I hope you will take this opportunity to not 
> reply and to 
> move on to more worthy thoughts.
>
  Oops,  I hope I made myself clear - the post I hope you ignore is the the one 
by 
PeterKlutz.  The person who says he embarasses to be replyingn ot a 64 year old 
etc etc





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Latest press conference - for J Stein

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz"  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > I had no idea the Beatles were meditating when I learned TM.
> > > > 
> > > > I knew they had been involved with MMY when I learned
> > > > in 1976, but as much as I adored them as a singing
> > > > group, their participation would have been a minus
> > > > rather than a plus if they'd still been touting TM.
> > > > 
> > > > I remember in the late '60s, a friend of my age wrote
> > > > me enthusiastically quoting something she'd read that
> > > > MMY had said in some account of his involvement with
> > > > the Beatles: "I am That, you are That, all this is
> > > > That."  She was impressed.
> > > > 
> > > > I thought, Wow, the Beatles (not to mention my friend)
> > > > can't be very discerning if they're falling for that
> > > > kind of meaningless mystical nonsense.
> > > > 
> > > > > Maybe its different with the generation I understand you belong
> > > > > to - that big spoiled, lard-assed congregation of whining no-
> > > > > gooders born just after WWII, whose sole accomplishment was to
> > > > > roll in the mud at Woodstock and being a nuisance ever after.
> > > > 
> > > > I was born in 1942; I've always been a bit wistful about
> > > > not having come along a few years later so I could have
> > > > been part of the Woodstock generation.  Sounds to me as
> > > > though you wish you could have been as well.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Get your ears checked - or learn how to read.
> > 
> > Actually I was talking about a river in Egypt
> > where you're concerned.
> >
> 
> I am embarrased, I just realized I was exchanging insults with a
> 64-year old. 
> 
> Please forgive me Mrs Stein, and do turn on the hearing aid until the
> next time the nice folks in white coats comes knocking at your door.
>

Judy, Nature is here to teach you a lesson! Here is the perfect example of a 
post that you  
need to ignore.  Forget the ignorance, the lack of honesty, the subtle anger, 
the 
unkindness, the inaacuracies. I hope you will take this opportunity to not 
reply and to 
move on to more worthy thoughts.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and NY Times, CNN

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
It is true that "we" on FFL tend not to, but I still have a reflex to do this  
- that I have to 
override with some effort.  I'll be 80 before I grow up!  It is hard to outgrow 
the idea of a 
perfect adult/parent somewhere out there in the universe.  I suspect our brains 
are wired 
for that belief, and in an ideal world, it is healthy to have that expectation 
at any age.

> "We" don't.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Mar 17, 2006, at 12:17 PM, wayback71 wrote:
> 
> >  This brings up an issue for me - why do we tend to "blame" the 
> > student/disciple for not
> >  having enough faith, or enough belief to overlook bad behavior, 
> > rather than the other way
> >  around?
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and NY Times, CNN

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 3/17/06 12:17 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > This brings up an issue for me - why do we tend to "blame" the
> > student/disciple for not
> > having enough faith, or enough belief to overlook bad behavior, rather than
> > the other way 
> > around?
> 
> It's like blaming the rape victim for tempting the rapist.
>
Exactly





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and NY Times, CNN

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > on 3/17/06 11:35 AM, feste37 at feste37@ wrote:
> > 
> > "Woe to the man who abuses his former spiritual teacher, 
> > for sorrow will come to him in the fullness of his days."
> > The Book of Feste, Chapter 1, verse 1.
> 
> Woe to the person who is afraid to point it out
> when his spiritual teacher is talking crazy, for
> he is a prime candidate for drinking the Kool-Aid, 
> and never reaching the fullness of his days.  :-)
>



This brings up an issue for me - why do we tend to "blame" the student/disciple 
for not 
having enough faith, or enough belief to overlook bad behavior, rather than the 
other way 
around?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "feste37"  wrote:
> >
> > For God's sake, she was just doing her best as she saw it, not 
> using a "tactic"  
> > to "alienate people from what they're experiencing." You always 
> take the most 
> > negative interpretation possible, while posing as an impartial, 
> detached 
> > observer. 
> 
> It is easy to recognize her "tactic", because it is used all over 
> the TMO. "Don't focus on negativity". "Don't handle problems from 
> the relative field - but from the transcendental field" etc. 
> I think Mike can use many of the points in his courtcase in Florida.
> Ingegerd

This denial of problems has, over the years, led many TM teachers and 
meditators hoping 
to get onto courses to disregard the need for therapy or medication, too (just 
like Sem).  
Interesting given what I have been told that Ayurveda says about feelings:  
feel the feeling 
right away, feel it thoroughly, and then let it go when you can.  This is 
supposed to 
prevent the accumulation of emotional stress in the body and mind.  This advice 
is the 
opposite of the way the students were handled - ignore the feelings and 
distract the 
students with something on TV 
> 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > on 3/14/06 3:30 PM, jyouells2000 at jyouells@ wrote:
> > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> 
> > > >> IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
> > > >> FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF IOWA
> > > >> CENTRAL DIVISION
> > > >>  
> > > >> ESTATE OF LEVI ANDELIN BUTLER,
> > > >> by and through his Personal Representative, JOSHUA BUTLER,
> > > >> Plaintiff,
> > > >> v.
> > > >> MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT and
> > > >> MAHARISHI VEDIC EDUCATION DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION,
> > > >> Defendants. ) Case No. 06-cv-00072
> > > >> 
> > > > 
> > > This whole document is worth reading. Certain things jumped out 
> at me, 
> > such
> > > as Suzy Dillbeck trying to get students upset about the pen 
> attack - some
> > > still crying - to forget about what had just happened and focus 
> on a
> > > Maharishi tape. Apparently she had the principle of the 2nd 
> element in 
> > mind,
> > > which has often been used as a tactic to alienate people from 
> what they're
> > > actually experiencing.
> > >
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 3/14/06 11:51 PM, gullible fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> >> Are you sure
> >> you weren't over in Livingston Manor? It would have
> >> been easier to hide from
> >> you that MMY was in S. Fallsburg.
> > 
> > I was in South Fallsburg. The first time I was at
> > Livingston Manor was not until April 1979, when I went
> > there for the first CAC Phase III. Phase III sounded
> > interesting to the citizens who went on it, but it
> > turned out to be just rounding with what we already
> > had.  
> > 
> > Do you recall if the course administrators instructed
> > the governors to hide the fact that MMY was there from
> > all the citizens?
> 
> Don't know. He was walking around the halls to go from the lecture hall to
> his room. I don't remember being told to keep his presence there a secret.
> > 
> > It looks like they pulled off an amazing hoodwink.
>

I recall thast the meeting with MMY was for teachers/governors only, so if you 
weren't  
teaches yet, you probaboy would not have been put on buses and sent over to S 
Fallsburg. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Iowa complaint -- Butler case

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > If the particulars regarding Joel Wysong are accurate here, I'm 
> sorry 
> > but I'll retract my previous posts from yesterday saying he 
> shouldn't 
> > feel guilty or responsible over the death of Levi.
> > 
> > If the particulars of the brief are true, he should feel VERY 
> > responsible and VERY guilty.  He added horribly.
> >
> 
> *
> 
> The responsibility was with the decision of MUM administrators not to 
> involve police or security guards. A lot of people simply do not have 
> the disposition to be security guards, and presumably Joel Wysong, who 
> admitted being afraid of Sem when Sem was acting crazy in his house, 
> was just not capable of handling the situation, so I can't fault him 
> in the way that I fault MUM mgmt for their indifference to student 
> welfare.  You can't expect some faculty member with no experience in 
> dealing with the wild and crazy to be able to handle the situation -- 
> that's why the school had security guards, that's what Fairfield cops 
> are for -- it was a decision by top administrators at MUM not to 
> involve any security people that was the problem.

  Yes, or to take Sem to the emergency room of a hospital so he could get 
proper care and 
treatment. I can't imagine why they even thought it ok to put him on a plane 
home the 
next day!!! Can you imagine how angry his parents must feel?  Their son was so 
obviously 
sick, and no one took him to a hospital, or had the police evaluate him. SO he 
was left to 
act out his craziness and his life is ruined and some poor great kid is dead.  
I suspect Joel 
and his administrative peers thought they were being kind in not calling the 
police,but that 
is not kindness.  What I wonder is who told Joel to watch Sem, alone?   My 
guess is that it 
was time for everyone to meditate, so Joel was left alone and did not want to 
ask for help. 
And why in the world did Joel meditate when his job was to monitor an unstable 
student?  
There are times when you have to skip your TM, even if it is not convenient.  
(I will never 
forget one couple who locked thier new baby in a room for an hour and a half 
each 
mornbign and evening in the late 70's while they did their long "flying" 
program together. 
The child screamed and screamed and this went on for months, but they believed 
TM 
came first.)
> I don't see Joel Wysong listed as faculty any more:

  Joel is no longer on the faculty.  He left over a year ago to become either a 
raja or one of 
the recerts who runs an area on the east coast (maybe somewhere in New YOrk 
state, even perhaps the Livingston manor area)
 
> http://www.mum.edu/admin/faculty
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Mar 13, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> > An MUM staffer says that Bevan and lawyers are putting quite a bit  
> > into the
> > lawsuit against MUM brought by the parents of Levi Butler. The suit  
> > draws a
> > bigger line to include other TM organizations besides MUM; the two  
> > families
> > make claims against the techniques too. A lawyer who helps MUM with  
> > legal
> > issues said he feels we can handle the allegations about techniques  
> > but the
> > claim against MUM for the wrongful death will be more difficult.
> 
> 
> One of the dangers of canned meditation "techniques" is that they  
> don't allow for all the subtle nuances of a potentially infinite  
> variety of students. All these people would have to do is subpoena  
> (or whatever you call it) the checking procedures and show how there  
> are a limited set of responses, IIRC, none of which ever tell you to  
> 'stop meditating' or cut back if "x" happens (i'm sure someone will  
> correct me if I'm wrong here). And actually they had this kid over- 
> meditating as it was. I'll be amazed if they get out of this one.
> 
> Upside is, this would be a good time to modify and expand the  
> checking procedures to include what they darn well know are the side- 
> effects--and sometime dangerous side effects--of TM. But we all know  
> it is extremely unlikely this will ever happen.

Changing checking notes wold not help - that would put checkers in the position 
of 
evaluating a person's mental status, and open them up to all sorts of liability 
wouldn't it?  
And checking notes and getting people to learn TM seem to be the very last 
things on 
MMY's mind for the last several decades.

No one person is to blame for this tragedy.  For example, I imagine that the 
parents of 
Sem wish, in retrospect, thatthey had never let him go far from home to go to 
college 
when he had a history (didn't he?) of mental illness.   Obviously, the MUM 
folks did not 
handle this serious situation properly - no training in this?  No understanindg 
of mental 
illness or psychosis by those making decisions? a desire to keep this a low 
profile event, 
so no authorities were called or real help sought for this young man with a 
brain disorder? 
LIke most tragedies, a series of events, each one of which should not have 
happened, did 
happen - one after the other - and lives were ruined.  I think most of us have 
difficulty 
anticipating the Worst.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 3/11/06 7:37 PM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > These were two separate quotes (the one about the exhaust from a bus).
> > 
> > The (other) quote was fairly close to the way I stated it below. Rick,
> > please chime in with details. We were sitting in a room with Maharishi
> > in Livingston Manor when he came for an unannounced visit, not very
> > many, maybe 100+ give or take. He was really po'd about a lot of
> > stuff. They had let many repairs go at LM because no one wanted to
> > take responsibility for having wells dug/repaired, etc. I guess
> > because of the money. Lots of little things like that this kept coming
> > up. 
> > 
> > Somebody-Rick claims him-so he will remember more accurately what
> > precipitated Maharishi's respone. He launched into the fact that
> > getting enlightnened was a process and as near as I can remember he said:
> > 
> > "Every day is life. We don't postpone the present based on the hopes
> > of a more glorious future...It doesn't just happen all at once, it's a
> > process...what makes you think that if you don't enjoy the process you
> > will enjoy being in Unity Consciousness..."
> > 
> > He spoke some more. Rick can add his recollection.
Rick wrote: 
> I have 300+ unread posts in my FFL box, so I just happened to spot this one
> by chance. My recollection was that he said that at a Governors' conference
> in S. Fallsburg, and that I was at the podium at the time, trying to be a
> big shot and attract his attention. I was straining a lot in my life and
> quite out of balance, which may have evoked his comment.

I think I was there, although I don't remember you, Rick.  If it was the same 
conference, I 
DO remember MMY got furious at a young man who was on the staff doing tapes 
and/or 
printing for the TMO in S.Fallsburg.  I cannot remember what this person had 
done, but 
MMY yelled at him for a full 5 minutes.  I was so shook up, having never seen 
MMY treat 
someone this way. From my perspective it seemed undeserved, because the boy 
tried to 
explain what was really the situation, and MMY would not let him finish and 
continued to 
yell at him in front of all of us.  So the young man gave up trying to explain 
the situation 
and just stood there and took it.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yeah, but it's so much more fun to create Rajas.  I mean, don't you 
> have fantasies of dressing up in a robe and crown and going out in 
> public? :)
> 
> Sal


Actually,I did have those fantasies..when I was about 4 years old. 
> 
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 7:37 AM, wayback71 wrote:
> 
> > I
> >  suspect he is making enough from selling real estate and from the 
> > "donations" that people
> >  make to become raja's - costs a fortune (a million dollars per 
> > person) and is simple and
> >  not time consuming to have a raja course.  I know that MMY has been 
> > told by many
> >  teachers and higher ups in the TMO, over the last few years, that 
> > more people would learn
> >  TM if the price were reduced, and that the TMO would make more money 
> > if the price were
> >  reduced.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Mike Scozarri being sued

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tmforlife108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Regarding the dirt that one supporter of Mike Scozzari requested, I know  
> that item is 
not 
> central to Mike's defense. Mike told me he just wants everybody to be able to 
> teach TM 
> openly without fear and threats from the so called trademark holder.  If 
> someone gets a 
> masters in education, pays for their education themselves, the university has 
> no right to 
> try and take the degree back 30 years later!
> 
> But to the post from someone (below) who wrote that there would not be 
> precedent, I 
> think you are way off.
> 
> Don't be naive - winning this will be winning it for everybody and we can end 
> this for 
> good.
> 
> I'm guessing this was written by  an attny,  possibly with the TMO as he must 
> realize it 
will 
> set precedent.  He is just trying to sidestep that issue, which for 
> supporters that are TM 
> teachers would be the most important issue.  If they win, the TMO could serve 
> the 
papers 
> on other independent teachers using the TM trademark - and THEY WILL- 
> precedent has 
> power!   What independent teacher would risk it if the TMO wins the case in 
> Florida?
> 
> The trademark holder in this case has a long history of misusing that 
> trademark.  Do we 
> need to go over this again?  A judge knows that threats against the trademark 
> not acted 
> on by the TMO do not amount to defending the trademark.  If you know someone 
> is 
> misusing the trademark and has done so for years, threatening them with phone 
> calls is 
> not defending the trademark, it's harassment.  The courts will have this 
> information as it 
> unravels.  If TM is going to continue to be available I agree - it will be 
> thanks to the 
> independents. They just need to see the importance of this case in Florida 
> and help with 
> the defense. 
> 
> Who can honestly say that the TMO is headed in the right direction? 
> 
> Daniel Jeffers
> 
> One friend who has a spiritual take wrote this
> The Bastards are abusing us, the legitimate teachers of M's knowledge, As 
> they have for 
> the Past 25 Years.  This is nothing new.  Their deliberate intention is to 
> crush us and 
take 
> away our livelihood & our sacred mission to help people in need.  They use 
> intimidation, 
> they use divide & conquer.  They brainwash our friends & turn them against 
> us.  They 
> attempt to isolate us from our friends.  They are demons playing the 
> destructive role 
that 
> demons always play.  Everyone on the planet has to battle against demons of 
> various 
> kinds, whether in the form of family members or bosses or government 
> authorities, 
> criminals, terrorists, etc. etc.  Can you imagine the karma associated with 
> actively 
> attempting to stop people from becoming enlightened, and to stop people from 
> having 
> their suffering alleviated?

The truth is that it is not "they" or some distant and unnamed "bastards" who 
are doing 
this - keeping the price of officially sanctioned TM high.  It is Maharishi 
himself.  He 
himself decided the price, despite the attempts of many people around him to 
explain the 
consequences.  He has been adament and unyeilding. He is also well aware of the 
figures 
of how many learn each month and how much income it does or does not 
generate.The 
true believers feel he has some unstated  higher purpose for this decision to 
keep the 
price so high.  The lawyers who will be acting on behalf of the TMO and 
Maharishi are 
doing just that - at least some of them are devoted to him and his decisions - 
and if MMY 
wants to stop people from teaching TM for less than his standard price, these 
lawyers will 
feel it is their mission to do exactly as Maharishi wants.  IMO, I don't think 
that means that 
MMY would necessarily be personally angry with the teachers who teach outside 
of the 
official TMO.  Who knows, he might applaud them!  Maybe he is playing a cosmic 
game 
here and watching everyone dance about.  Really strange situation and a 
fascinating battle.
It will be really interesting to see the TMO and MMY's response to this 
situation should 
they lose the lawsuit! And also interesting to see what teachers around the 
world do and if 
TM instruction actually picks up.

Also, Tm is not the only technique that can take a person in the directionof 
Enlightenment.  
So if a person really wants to learn to meditate, there are other valid methods 
on this 
planet, some for free.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?

[wayback71]

> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hgiammarco"  wrote:
> > >
> > > Why does T/M cost so much to join? A little help?

> >sparaig wrote: 
> > MMY decided to target the elite since they are the most 
> > influential members of society and most likely to be able 
> > to donate large sums of money if they are so inclined.

> Turquoise B wrote:
> And as a result of this focus, the number of people
> learning TM has plunged to near-zero worldwide, 
> indicating that what Maharishi seems to be most
> interested in is money, and *not* in helping people 
> by teaching them a valuable technique of meditation.


Actually, altho MMY may be very interested in money, he would be making more by 
allowing teachers of TM to teach the technique for much less than thte current 
$2500 fee 
in the USA.  Instruction would pickup world-wide and the TMO would have more 
income.  I 
suspect he is making enough from selling real estate and from the "donations" 
that people 
make to become raja's - costs a fortune (a million dollars per person) and is 
simple and 
not time consuming to have a raja course.  I know that MMY has been told by 
many 
teachers and higher ups in the TMO, over the last few years, that more people 
would learn 
TM if the price were reduced, and that the TMO would make more money if the 
price were 
reduced.  MMY is adament that the price stay high, unyeilding about this. l  I 
have heard 
some teachers still involved say that they think MMY does  not really want many 
people to 
learn TM anymore, that is no longer his goal.  Or only the rich.  Why?  Who 
knows.  

> An interesting "test case" seems to be about to take
> place in the Florida courts, in which the organization
> that claims it wants to spread TM to as many people as
> possible is suing a TM teacher who is teaching TM for 
> the price he's always taught it.
> 
> He has not only refused to raise his prices because the 
> TM organization demands that he do so, he has refused
> to pay that organization several thousand dollars to
> be "recertified" at teaching something he was fully
> certified to teach years ago. It should be interesting 
> to see how the TM organization defends its position in 
> court.
> 
> The fascinating exchange in that case, in my opinion, is 
> going to be when the fellow's lawyer asks the "official, 
> recertified" teachers, under oath, how many people have 
> been instructed in TM *in the entire world* in the last 
> year at the "official" price, and that number turns out 
> to be less than the number of people that the teacher 
> they are suing has taught in one small town in Florida 
> during the same period. 

Not really - there are people learning in big cities like LA, chicago and 
Manhattan.  Not 
many, but a few every few months.  And David Lynch's education foundation which 
pays 
for young students to learn TM has resulted in at least a few hundred 
initiations  so far 
(most are underpriveleged students who are in bad situations, which is why 
their schools 
agree to allow TM in the first place).  There are also a few students learning 
at each 
campus after he speaks there.
> 
> The bottom line is that "TM" is just a brand name for a
> made-up technique of meditation that is (in my opinion
> as a former TM teacher) no better than any other tech-
> nique of meditation, less effective than many, and more
> likely to produce negative side effects than most. Shop
> around...you'll find that there are people out there who
> still care more about helping people by teaching them a
> useful technique of meditation for free or at a reason-
> able price than they care about making money. But you 
> won't find them in the TM movement.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is it a sin to question whether or not MMY is enlightened?

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Feb 28, 2006, at 8:29 PM, authfriend wrote:
> 
> > Vaj's entirely predictable dump notwithstanding, no
> > matter where MMY got the information--and especially
> > if he got it piecemeal, as Vaj claims
> 
> I did not say he *got* it piecemeal: he *doled it out* piecemeal.
> 
> If he gave this material out whole, in its proper context, it would  
> be manifestly obvious that it is Hinduism not the oft touted "Vedic  
> Science".
>

I too wish Mmy"s info were presented more completely, and quickly, and not 
doled out.  
He teaches in a different manner than anyone else I have ever heard - with lots 
of 
repetition,  Rather relaxing to fall into his rhythm and just listen, altho 
sometimes boring.  
It is Hinduism, but Vedic Science is a good name, too, and certainly more 
neutral if the 
goal is to make this a universally acceptable way of looking at life.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is it a sin to question whether or not MMY is enlightened?

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > >
> > > on 2/28/06 5:52 PM, MDixon6569@ at MDixon6569@ wrote:
> > > 
> > > > In a message dated 2/28/06 11:39:53 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > > >> Because  sometimes I seriously wonder, and he has NEVER said 
> so to my
> > > >> knowledge!  He seems more like a bitter old man these days and
> > > >> sometimes the shortest distance between two points is a 
> straight line.
> > > >> Also his pejorative comments about people and forms of 
> governments is
> > > >> disturbing and leads me to believe he is not established in  
> Being
> > > >> 
> > > >> I am grateful to him for TM, and if he isn't enlightened that  
> wouldn't
> > > >> mean TM doesn't work (but it might make you wonder)! Only 
> Bevan  and
> > > >> others say he is operating from Aham-brahmasmi but we don't 
> know if
> > > >> that is true!  BillyG
> > > > Billy, I'm kind of like you. I wonder, sometimes like you, for 
> the exact same
> > > > reasons. But then I also often think he is enlightened but has 
> lost his mind
> > > > in his old age. Just as the body can go in old age with the 
> enlightened , why
> > > > not the mind as well? Maybe sometime down the road, somebody 
> real close to M
> > > > that we have no reason not to trust, can fill us in on what has 
> happened over
> > > > the past few years.
> > Rick Archer wrote: 
> > > I think that if your private life is way out of whack with your 
> public
> > > persona, it creates a strain, cultures paranoia and controlling, 
> repressive
> > > tendencies, etc., that can wear on your sanity over the years.
wayback71 wrote: >
> > 
> > One thing I have wondered about lately - having just viewd lots of
> > old tapes of MMY - is where did he get all this knowledge of the 
> > Vedas and the understanding of the relationships between the 
> > sounds, the from infinity to a point stuff?  Is this just common 
> > knowledge in India?  did MMY pick it up by talking wtih some wise
> > pundits?  Is all the Vedic Science info really not that profound, 
> > but sounds that way to Westerners?  My hunch is that it is a 
> > profound understanding, just as I think MMY's descriptions of 
> > states of consciousness etc is simple and also profound -= a real 
> > contribution to the world.  If he is not Enlightened, where did he 
> > get this stuff?  Could he have picked it up from Guru Dev in 
> > the 9 years as a disciple?  Is he cognizing all this?  LIfting
> > ideas from others?  Anyone have any insight into this?
jstein wrote: 
> Vaj's entirely predictable dump notwithstanding, no
> matter where MMY got the information--and especially
> if he got it piecemeal, as Vaj claims--what's so
> remarkable to me is the way he put it together into
> a coherent, consistent system.

 Yes, MMY is an absolute genius in some of his lectures - their structure, 
humor and 
consistency with all the other information he has presented.

> Nor would it have been just a matter of stitching it
> together like a patchwork, because it all had to make
> sense in the context of the TM technique.  And claims
> that TM isn't unique are belied by its implications,
> as MMY teaches them, for all the *other* various
> principles, many of which you just don't find anywhere
> else.
  MMY himself says he has not invented any of the info, just revived it it's 
more pure form 
(and then stuck his own name on it, of course).
 
> If all he taught were traditional understandings, he
> wouldn't arouse so much hostility from traditional
> teachers.

I don't want to sound like a TB caught up in rationalizing all sorts of 
craziness, but it did 
occur to me while watching old tapes that the whole TMO" and MMY thing is an 
exercise in 
stretching awareness to encompass extremes/opposites.  MMY has said that the 
expansion of awareness to encompass silence and dynamism, infinity and a point, 
relaitve 
and absoloute etc etc etc is necessary.  And with the TMO, if you choose to 
stay involved 
or even wishful and semi attached, you end up trying to stretch your awareness 
around 
thievery and liesat one extreme to  powerful understanding and some great 
experiences at 
the other.  Like a huge exercise in entertaining extremes at the same moment in 
time.  So, 
doubter

[FairfieldLife] Re: Is it a sin to question whether or not MMY is enlightened?

[wayback71]

>
> on 2/28/06 5:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 2/28/06 11:39:53 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >> Because  sometimes I seriously wonder, and he has NEVER said so to my
> >> knowledge!  He seems more like a bitter old man these days and
> >> sometimes the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
> >> Also his pejorative comments about people and forms of governments is
> >> disturbing and leads me to believe he is not established in  Being
> >> 
> >> I am grateful to him for TM, and if he isn't enlightened that  wouldn't
> >> mean TM doesn't work (but it might make you wonder)! Only Bevan  and
> >> others say he is operating from Aham-brahmasmi but we don't know if
> >> that is true!  BillyG
> > Billy, I'm kind of like you. I wonder, sometimes like you, for the exact 
> > same
> > reasons. But then I also often think he is enlightened but has lost his mind
> > in his old age. Just as the body can go in old age with the enlightened , 
> > why
> > not the mind as well? Maybe sometime down the road, somebody real close to M
> > that we have no reason not to trust, can fill us in on what has happened 
> > over
> > the past few years.
Rick Archer wrote: 
> I think that if your private life is way out of whack with your public
> persona, it creates a strain, cultures paranoia and controlling, repressive
> tendencies, etc., that can wear on your sanity over the years.
>

One thing I have wondered about lately - having just viewd lots of old tapes of 
MMY - is 
where did he get all this knowledge of the Vedas and the understanding of the 
relationships between the sounds, the from infinity to a point stuff?  Is this 
just common 
knowledge in India?  did MMY pick it up by talking wtih some wise pundits?  Is 
all the 
Vedic Science info really not that profound, but sounds that way to Westerners? 
 My hunch 
is that it is a profound understanding, just as I think MMY's descriptions of 
states of 
consciousness etc is simple and also profound -= a real contribution to the 
world.  If he is 
not Enlightened, where did he get this stuff?  Could he have picked it up from 
Guru Dev in 
the 9 years as a disciple?  Is he cognizing all this?  LIfting ideas from 
others?  Anyone have 
any insight into this?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Feb 17, 2006, at 8:31 AM, wayback71 wrote:
> 
> >  I believe Dr.Vasant Ladd
> > refused an offer, years ago.  He has his own institute out west.
> 
> He refused after the movement insisted he sign a paper saying he  
> would now take Maharishi as his guru. He refused as he had his own  
> root guru who was dear to his heart. He broke down and cried as this  
> was just before a celebration where his participation was to be  
> announced.
>

Yes, I am not surprised that Dr.Ladd had too much integrity to sign such a 
paper. He 
would not have tolerated the TMO stuff for long, anyway.  About 17 years ago I 
went to 
see him for an ayurvedic consultation when he was traveling through 
Connecticut.  He 
placed his fingers on my wrist to read my pulse and I simply transcended. More 
so than 
with any of the TMO vaidyas.  A really peaceful, kind air around the man.   
> I also have the highest respect for Chopra, he's a fine man with  
> great integrity IMO. And you're right, he did continue to speak  
> highly of TM and the movement for some time after he left.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Beatles "angels on earth"

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- bbrigante wrote:
> >
> > I never liked Chopra, but if he had been 
> > able to control his arrogance and market TM, 
> > he would have been OK
> 
> In the early '90s, when I was active at the St. Louis 
> TM Center, about the only thing that brought people 
> in to learn was a two-paragraph plug for TM in one of 
> Chopra's books. We got about two people a month 
> that way. It wasn't much, but it gave a small circle of 
> teachers the opportunity to sing and wave the flowers 
> once a year.

Deepak was really kind to me on 2 occasions.  We did not know each, but in the 
late 80's 
he initiated me into the Primordial Sound technique.   I was his last 
appointmnet of the day 
and nearly 2 hours late for the initiation due to a huge traffic disaster on 
the highway I was 
using. He made a decision to miss his flite to wait for me, instructed me and 
left for the 
airport, knowing all along that he would miss his air flite (due to leave 15 
minutes after he 
got in the car for the airport, which was an hour away).  He was calm and kind 
and 
gracious throughout.  Turns out the flite was delayed and he did squeek onto it.
In another instance around the same time, he saw one of my children for a 
health checkup, 
ayurveda-style. What a great bedside manner he had, and super smart.  I always 
assumed 
if he left the TMO, he had his own good reasons. And he continued to speak 
highly of TM.  
What TB's forget is that ayurveda was not invented by Maharishi.  In fact, 
several Indians 
were asked by the TMO to help develop the Maharish Ayurveda products and to 
represent 
Maharishi Ayruveda - and they refused for various reasons.  I believe Dr.Vasant 
Ladd 
refused an offer, years ago.  He has his own institute out west.  






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Papaji Quote

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 2/16/06 6:53 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter  wrote:
> >> 
> >> "God is subject. When we make honest mistake, when we
> >> love God we think he is an object. He is the subject,
> >> you know? So you have to surrender to the subject. You
> >> are the object. Nobody can understand what I am
> >> speaking to you now. So you merge into the subject so
> >> that no object is left behind. Nobody is left."
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I was listening to this tape when I heard this and
> >> almost drove off the road. This is really intense
> >> stuff!
> > 
> > I have  read and reread this quote about 15 times, and each time it means a
> > bit more. 
> > Which tape and where did you get it? Also,where do you get a copy of the
> > India: Mirror of 
> > Truth book?  Barnes and Noble and Amazon don't carry it.
> 
> Amazon does, but get it from http://www.21stbooks.com/. They need the
> support.

Will do - thanks Dr. Pete, Vaj and Rick  
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Papji Quote

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "God is subject. When we make honest mistake, when we
> love God we think he is an object. He is the subject,
> you know? So you have to surrender to the subject. You
> are the object. Nobody can understand what I am
> speaking to you now. So you merge into the subject so
> that no object is left behind. Nobody is left."
> 
> 
> I was listening to this tape when I heard this and
> almost drove off the road. This is really intense
> stuff!

I have  read and reread this quote about 15 times, and each time it means a bit 
more. 
Which tape and where did you get it? Also,where do you get a copy of the India: 
Mirror of 
Truth book?  Barnes and Noble and Amazon don't carry it.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Dalai Lama: Meditation as Therapy

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- 
> 
> --- 
> > http://www.snowlionpub.com/pages/N73_1.php
> 
> Another article: "Science at the Crossroads" by the Dalai Lama
> http://www.dalailama.com/page.8.htm 
> >
> 
> --- End forwarded message ---
>
This article is such a pleasure to read.  In fact, it seems as if the Dalai 
Lama is picking up 
where MMY left off back in the 70's.  This is the kind of reasoned, no-hype, 
generous 
discussion that I had thought the TMO would be leading to.  MMY and all the 
hype must be 
doing something, but I would think that this style of conversation and research 
influences 
so many more people.  Such different approaches to essentially the same stuff. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: It would be good if...

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 2/12/06 1:52 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote:
> >> In a message dated 2/11/06 10:34:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> >> buckeyecreek@ writes:
> >> 
> >> This is  the phrase someone always used to order us to do
> >> something in the guise of  a polite request...from our meeting
> >> in La Antilla to our wedding in  Fairfiled and now 26 years
> >> later, we still say to each other "it would be  good if..."
> >> when we think someone is trying to make us do their bidding
> >> by  pretending it is for our own benefit...
> >> 
> >> Yes that is a good one. How about "Oh, Maharishi wouldn't
> >> like  that". Makes that person sound like they are in tune
> >> with the master and you aren't.
> > 
> > Exactly.  And don't forget the uniquitous "Maharishisez,"
> > used to introduce a quote, taken out of context, that is
> > supposed to silence the other person and bring the
> > discussion or argument to a close.  :-)
> 
> I was once giving an intro lecture in Yonkers, NY and I kept saying
> "Maharishisez." Finally some woman interrupted me and asked, "Who's Marsha?"

LOL . What a great story. And so New York, too.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Photos of Brahmastan/ Girish Varma

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This web site is a delightful photo story of the   celebration and trip to
> India for January 12th, put together by a   Russian Purusha. There is
> running English translation
> 
> http://www.maharishi.org.ua/india2006/
>
 The photos were great.  But who is Girish Varma, exactly?  
What does he do in the TMO?  His picture is hung on the wall in the background 
of a few 
photos, and his picture is the same size as and right next to that of Maharishi.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Lawsuit - TMO vs. Scozzari

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "anonyff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Mike Scozzari 
> > > Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:37:41 -0800
> > > To: Rick Archer 
> > > Subject: Lawsuit - TMO vs Scozzari
> Do you know who the recertified teachers are in NYC?
>

I believe there are about 4 or 5 or maybe more - Bill Brunelle and Janet 
Hoffman are 2 of 
them. 
> 
> > > 
> > > Hi Rick 
> > > 
> > > Could you please post this on Fairfield Life for me.
> > > 
> > > Thanks, 
> > > 
> > > Mike Scozzari 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Mike Scozzari 
> > > TM Center 
> > > Deerfield Beach, Florida
> > > www.bay3.com/tm 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > As many have heard, I have been asked to cease and desist teaching
> TM by the
> > > TMO attorneys in Iowa.  Their demands include that I destroy all
> teaching
> > > materials and that I no longer use their registered service marks
> for TM and
> > > Transcendental Meditation.  With the new project for teachers to
> re-certify
> > > and teach, teachers who, like me, were made "teachers for life" by
> > > Maharishi, were all told we must no longer consider ourselves
> teachers.  The
> > > re-certification course as you may have heard was $2K and $4
> depending on
> > > how many people you have taught in the past 2 years for $2500 each
> student.
> > > Once completed, re-certified teachers were required to teach full
> time,
> > > meditate 7 hours per day, open up 5 spas, raise 1.5 million for a
> peace
> > > palace, go to Holland for a month and become a raja after which
> you would be
> > > required to wear robes and a crown and have others bow to you. 
> Teachers
> > > were required to teach according to gender, males teach males,
> women teach
> > > women and all in a building with an east entrance (TMO websites
> detail the
> > > entire thing).  Teachers were promised salaries of $2000 per month
> if nobody
> > > takes TM and $4000 a month if you teach 2.  Three months after
> it's start
> > > all salaries were discontinued and teachers who quit their jobs
> had to find
> > > work once again.  Huge Snip
> > 
> > I am not defending the TMO here, but I know for a fact that some
> recerts are receiving 
> > their salaries. The folks in NYC are getting their $4000 per month,
> I believe.  Perhaps it 
> > helps that they have been able to teach a bunch of disadvantaged
> school children TMO 
> > using some grant money or David Lynch money.  Those initiations must
> bring the recerts 
> > to the level of people who the  TMO will pay.
> > 
> > Also, the recerts are not going to go to Holland to become rajas
> unless they have a million 
> > dollars to donate. AT least so far I think that is the requirement
> for rajahood.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 2/4/06 1:27 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" 
> > wrote:
> >> 
> > 
> >> I agree with you. To raise critical questions is a good thing - even
> >> when it comes to Guru Dev - who is my absolute favorite. I love his
> >> quotations. He was very strict - but he was true to his principles.
> >> He choosed his own way - not compromising - . I have to respect him
> >> for that - even as a woman I would not have been allowed to come
> >> near him at all.
> >> Ingegerd
> >>> 
> > 
> > Is it true that women were not allowed near Guru Dev?
> 
> That's what I heard. There's a story that he said he had spent 9 months
> trapped inside the womb of one, and that was enough for him.
>
Ouch.   DOes anyone know if all Shankaracharyas avoid haivng women in their 
presence?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Lawsuit - TMO vs. Scozzari

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> From: Mike Scozzari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 11:37:41 -0800
> To: Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Lawsuit - TMO vs Scozzari
> 
> Hi Rick 
> 
> Could you please post this on Fairfield Life for me.
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Mike Scozzari 
> 
> 
> Mike Scozzari 
> TM Center 
> Deerfield Beach, Florida
> www.bay3.com/tm 
> 
> 
> As many have heard, I have been asked to cease and desist teaching TM by the
> TMO attorneys in Iowa.  Their demands include that I destroy all teaching
> materials and that I no longer use their registered service marks for TM and
> Transcendental Meditation.  With the new project for teachers to re-certify
> and teach, teachers who, like me, were made "teachers for life" by
> Maharishi, were all told we must no longer consider ourselves teachers.  The
> re-certification course as you may have heard was $2K and $4 depending on
> how many people you have taught in the past 2 years for $2500 each student.
> Once completed, re-certified teachers were required to teach full time,
> meditate 7 hours per day, open up 5 spas, raise 1.5 million for a peace
> palace, go to Holland for a month and become a raja after which you would be
> required to wear robes and a crown and have others bow to you.  Teachers
> were required to teach according to gender, males teach males, women teach
> women and all in a building with an east entrance (TMO websites detail the
> entire thing).  Teachers were promised salaries of $2000 per month if nobody
> takes TM and $4000 a month if you teach 2.  Three months after it's start
> all salaries were discontinued and teachers who quit their jobs had to find
> work once again.  Huge Snip

I am not defending the TMO here, but I know for a fact that some recerts are 
receiving 
their salaries. The folks in NYC are getting their $4000 per month, I believe.  
Perhaps it 
helps that they have been able to teach a bunch of disadvantaged school 
children TMO 
using some grant money or David Lynch money.  Those initiations must bring the 
recerts 
to the level of people who the  TMO will pay.

Also, the recerts are not going to go to Holland to become rajas unless they 
have a million 
dollars to donate. AT least so far I think that is the requirement for rajahood.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Can the enlightened make mistakes? was: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>

> I agree with you. To raise critical questions is a good thing - even 
> when it comes to Guru Dev - who is my absolute favorite. I love his 
> quotations. He was very strict - but he was true to his principles. 
> He choosed his own way - not compromising - . I have to respect him 
> for that - even as a woman I would not have been allowed to come 
> near him at all.
> Ingegerd
> > 

Is it true that women were not allowed near Guru Dev?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Money Smuggling, was: Actually, there are far more "quality"posts now.

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
>  wrote:
> > on 2/4/06 11:43 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > Bingo.  You have just nailed the fatal flaw in
> > > Maharishi's model.  To believe it is true, you
> > > have to believe that before enlightenment, one
> > > has free will, and that afterwards one does not.
> > > 
> > > What *changed* in the operating system of the
> > > universe between unenlightenment and enlighten-
> > > ment?  Did karma stop working?
> > > 
> > > If one has a choice as to how to act before real-
> > > ization of enlightenment, one has the same choice
> > > afterwards.  Those who claim otherwise are in my
> > > opinion trying to avoid responsibility for their
> > > actions.  They may be avoiding this responsibility
> > > because they are up to no good, or they may be
> > > avoiding this responsibility because they honestly
> > > believe that "God does everything," but it's the
> > > same bottom line.  They wish their followers to
> > > cut them slack they would not extend to anyone else.
> > 
> > I agree. The enlightened man driving his car makes the 
> > decisions necessary to navigate successfully through 
> > traffic and arrive at his destination. Why shouldn't 
> > other decisions be just as volitional and just as 
> > subject to dire consequences if they are made capriciously?
> 
> Yup.  My position on this is not really about Maharishi.
> It's just an observation I've come to after watching
> various spritual "scenes" for most of a lifetime.  I 
> really believe that the myth of the infallibility of
> the enlightened is one of the *worst* ideas in history,
> because of its ability to be abused.
> 
> Teachers may start out very ethical, and trying their
> best to do things right, as they see "right."  But over
> time, there is *immense* pressure from the students to
> assume the mantle of "infallibility."  If the model 
> taught to these students *reinforces* this belief in 
> infallibility, sooner or later most teachers are going 
> to fall back on it as an excuse to justify some unpopular 
> decision that they have made or action they have performed.  
> And then it all starts to do downhill from there.
> 
> Personally, I really am in the camp of "before enlight-
> enment, chop wood and carry water; after enlightenment,
> chop wood and carry water."  I don't believe that there
> is *any* fundamental change that takes place after
> realization, except on the level *of* realization.

I agree

> Same karma, same necessity to make judgements to the
> best of one's ability. snip 

Or, to put this in the framework of some people's enlightenment type 
experiences, sure 
you chop wood and carry water both before and after the Big E. The only 
difference is that 
after the Big E comes the knowledge that everything is happening by itself, on 
autopilot 
and in that case 2.  no one "does" anything "wrong" since  it all happens 
anyway and 
choice is a total illusion. Therefore (and this BIG) 3. the Enlightened make 
the same 
"mistakes" and "right actions" as the unenlightened. Why would their behavior 
improve if 
you use this model? And...4 The Enlightened know that "they" don't make 
mistakes, while 
the rest of us not yet enlightened blame ourselves as we wrangle over doing the 
moral 
thing.
Maybe it is a question of how much sattva is there in the nervous system of any 
person, 
Enlightened or not? Of course, this means that MMY is not making any mistakes 
either - 
no matter how unkind or greedy the actions are - whew this is crazymaking stuff.
The upshot is that for the unenlightened, we just keep on trying, even if it is 
an illusion 
that we have control.  And part of that illusion is that it usually feels 
better to be around 
nice, funny people, honest people, kind people. There are enlightened rascals 
and 
unenlightened saints.  I think the perfection that we are all looking for, 
living in a human 
nervous system, is way beyond enlightenement -I don't know what name you call 
it. Maybe 
it only manifests in Sat Yuga.  But for here and now, we just have to keep it 
simple. I think 
the TMO hurts people and is dishonest while the technique is a good one.  I 
would advise 
anyone to stay away from involvement with the TMO where money or lifeplans are 
involved.
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Livingston Manor property & Lake Shandalle

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WLeed3@ wrote:
> >
> > The LM property TM own's is in L/M NY & the lake is on the 
> property.  The 
> > lake is situated on the Eastern end of the property & the new SV  
> buildings are 
> > to be constructed on the eastern side of the lake @ present the  
> buildings are 
> > all on the western side. Presently there are some 30- 40  people 
> there & of 
> > that some 25-35 Purusha coming & going depending on  family 
> situations & 
> > projects they may be working upon. In terms of # S most  of the 
> old buildings are now 
> > gone many burned in cooperation with local  volunteer fire Dept's 
> for there 
> > education after all scrap that may be useful for  $. some 
> remaining buildings 
> > are the main lobby dinning hall  ,kitchen, executive new & old 
> celebrity, E. 
> > wing & imperial, all  connected to one another, Veda vision 
> remains for 
> > directors housing &  some staff. Some of the small motor pool 
> buildings remain & a few 
> > sheds near  the dining hall- kitchen was uses in the distant past 
> as garage,& 
> > the milk  barn. All the others have been torn down & removed  etc.
> >
> 
> **
> 
> 
> I think you've got this wrong. If buildings were to be constructed 
> on the east side of the Lake, then a body of water would be on the 
> west, which is inauspicious (water bodies should be on the east or 
> north) according to Sthapathya Veda.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/7qw7s (you may have to zoom out to see the TMO's 
> Livingston Manor property in relation to the Lake)
>
My understanding is that the TMO only owns the land on the west side of the 
lake.  On the 
east side, I think there are privately owned cottages that have been there for 
years.






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[FairfieldLife] WHAT! Re: Annoying someone via the internet is now a federal crime

[wayback71]

>
> >>> doctor_gabby_savy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>So I checked the last 50 or so Technology arttices in the 
> >>>NYTimes. And the last 50 or so articles in the "Washington" 
> >>>section. Could't find anything close to what the poster cited. 
> >>>So I did a search on "anonymous" and seperately on "annoy". 
> >>>There are no articles in the past week containing these words 
> >>>that appear to have anything to do with what the poster says 
> >>>he read.
> 
> >> TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> responded:
> >>Well, it took me one...count them, ONE...Google search
> >>to find exactly what he was talking about, including
> >>several news articles.
> >>Anyone with half a brain would have Googled on the name
> >>of the law itself.
> 
> > Judy (authfriend) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> then wrote:
> > For the record, I couldn't find it on the NYTimes
> > site either.  I think Michael may have misremembered
> > where he saw the piece.
> 
>Michael Dean Goodman wrote: 
> Dear Judy,
> 
> Thanks for bringing this up in such a reasonable way, compared to
> the "hysterical" flaming that others have so easily been nudged
> into during the past few days.
> 
> Here are the facts:
> 
> I subscribe to an e-mail newsletter, published weekly by the NY Times,
> called "Circuits" - a NY Times digest of technology news.
> 
> I received this week's NY Times "Circuits" digest on 26 Jan 06 - and
> that same day I wrote the post about it for this list.  I slept on
> that post overnight as I usually do, looked at it again the next morn-
> ing, edited it a bit to make sure it clearly reflected what I wanted
> to say, and posted the info to FFLife the day after I got it from an
> official NY Times publication.  You can access that NY Times techno-
> logy digest by going to the following link (which all needs to be on
> one line in case Yahoo breaks it up).  You may have to be a NY Times
> member to access it - they don't charge anything to sign up.)
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/26/technology/circuits/26POGUE-EMAIL.html
> 
Huge snip here

> It's fascinating to see how some of the very people on this list who
> love to annoy people, to attack people, to argue, to diminish others -
> some of the bullies who feel so much need to puff themselves up by
> putting others down - feel so threatened by my reference to the new
> Federal law that might, even possibly, threaten their style.  Look at
> how they jumped around, searched for and pounced on any commentator
> who wrote an opinion that supports the way they'd like the world to
> keep working, and then quoted it as though they've "proved" their
> case.  Look at how they avoided the obvious, intelligent search
> mechanisms that calmer, more balanced people immediately used and
> reported here (Google, etc.).  By their own "research", they put
> "stability" back into their universe; they attack and diminish the
> messenger (me); they feel safe; they feel big; they feel in control.
snip

> P.P.S.
> And to the poster who asked if I was implying that I planned to make
> use of this new law (to harm FF Life?).
> 
> The answer is: no.
> It often amazes me how people read things through the filter of their
> own issues.  Where would you get even a hint of that from anything I
> actually wrote, or from my history here since the very beginning of
> this list years ago?  If I don't like someone's energy here, I just
> simply don't read their stuff (delete key or filter-direct-to-trash),
> or if I read it I control myself and don't reply.  And if I didn't like
> the general tone of the whole group, I could just simply stop reading
> the digests for a while, or unsubscribe.  (All of these are skills
> that, if more widely practiced by some here, would make life more
> charming for many.)  But if I did that (unsubscribed), how could I
> keep my finger (attention) on the pulse of the good and the evil here,
> and pass it all along to Santa Clause or whoever is making a list?  ;)
> 
snip
> Namaste,
> 
> Michael

Nicely put, Michael.  It seems to me that much of FFL is a different place than 
it was a few 
years ago. There are wonderful discussions, good laughs, and such knowledgable 
people 
here.  But I skip many of the posts these days because they are so hostile - 
from a subset 
of people looking to engage each other by jumping on a word's implied meaning, 
an 
assumed criticism, the personality or character of someone they've never met, 
on and on.  
I'm not sure why they are here on FFL at all.  Why not email each other on the 
side or 
better yet, just call each other on the phone and work out these "issues" and 
conflicts 
between each other, rather than taking up space on FFL?  The tone of this kind 
of stuff is 
"off," unpleasant, and it feels as if a portion of FFL has been hijacked.

And since I am complaining, here's another peeve:  people who routinely post 5 
or 10 
posts in a row.  You know who you are. Occasionally getting so excited by a 
topic that you 
can't control yourself is fin

[FairfieldLife] Re: Begging money and charity

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 1/24/06 3:49 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > There is another thing to remember about asking for ongoing support,
> > especially with 
> > Purusha and MD.  Part of this process for them involves writing letters and
> > emails to their 
> > donors  - giving inside and on the spot info about what is going on in the
> > TMO.  It is 
> > sweet and really involves the donor emotionally.  However. this process 
> > means
> > that the 
> > folks on Purusha and MD cannot be really honest about their own feelings. 
> > They
> > are pretty 
> > much "forced" to give glowing, blissful reports so that their donors 
> > continue
> > to contribute.  
> > Donations would dry up if the donor thought things weren't just great or
> > complained or 
> > ever expressed misgivings. And the Purousha and MD people know that, even if
> > subconsciously. This cycle perpetuates itself.
> 
> When I was on Purusha, I really disliked raising money from donors, but I
> was pretty good at it. I was into Desktop Publishing and so I started
> publishing a newsletter which I called "News from Rick". It was sometimes 8
> pages long, and I filled it with interesting stuff, some of which I wrote,
> some of which I picked up here and there. I had a bulk rate permit at the
> post office and a mailing list of over 250 people. A lot of people really
> liked it, told their friends, and I ended up with people on my list that I
> didn't even know. I didn't get large donations from any one person, although
> Dough Henning once gave me $500, but I got lots of small ones which added up
> to an amount sufficient to keep me on Purusha and provide spending money.
> But Bevan shut me down. He felt that since it looked so nice, it might be
> mistaken for an official Movement publication, and there was no telling what
> I might say in it. I considered putting a large picture of a fish on the
> front page, which would have distinguished it from any Movement publication
> I had ever seen, but I backed down and ended up publishing several plain
> vanilla, non-formatted editions before leaving Purusha.
> 
> The reason I didn't like raising donations is that it altered my perception
> of people. It tainted my relationships with friends, and I couldn't walk
> into a room of movement people without scanning it for potential donors. I
> would have preferred that we started a bread baking or jelly making business
> like the Trappists and refrained from bugging people for money.

I still believe that long periods of time spent meditating are 
wonderful.Everyone should 
have that chance for a few months in a lifetime. I treasure the time I spent on 
long TM 
courses like teacher training or ATR's or courses. I think the traditional 
Tibetan culture 
pretty much allowed for that for all young men- say several years duriing a 
young man's 
early 20's.  How that was funded I don't know - but the bread baking, 
jellymaking, 
weaving type of work might be a good idea for MD and Purusha who are so 
inclined. Many 
are now getting older, though. Are they provided with any health insurance?  I 
wonder if 
they will find social security enough to get by (assuming they have contributed 
for a 
while).






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Begging money and charity

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 1/24/06 3:49 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > There is another thing to remember about asking for ongoing support,
> > especially with 
> > Purusha and MD.  Part of this process for them involves writing letters and
> > emails to their 
> > donors  - giving inside and on the spot info about what is going on in the
> > TMO.  It is 
> > sweet and really involves the donor emotionally.  However. this process 
> > means
> > that the 
> > folks on Purusha and MD cannot be really honest about their own feelings. 
> > They
> > are pretty 
> > much "forced" to give glowing, blissful reports so that their donors 
> > continue
> > to contribute.  
> > Donations would dry up if the donor thought things weren't just great or
> > complained or 
> > ever expressed misgivings. And the Purousha and MD people know that, even if
> > subconsciously. This cycle perpetuates itself.
> 
> When I was on Purusha, I really disliked raising money from donors, but I
> was pretty good at it. I was into Desktop Publishing and so I started
> publishing a newsletter which I called "News from Rick". It was sometimes 8
> pages long, and I filled it with interesting stuff, some of which I wrote,
> some of which I picked up here and there. I had a bulk rate permit at the
> post office and a mailing list of over 250 people. A lot of people really
> liked it, told their friends, and I ended up with people on my list that I
> didn't even know. I didn't get large donations from any one person, although
> Dough Henning once gave me $500, but I got lots of small ones which added up
> to an amount sufficient to keep me on Purusha and provide spending money.
> But Bevan shut me down. He felt that since it looked so nice, it might be
> mistaken for an official Movement publication, and there was no telling what
> I might say in it. I considered putting a large picture of a fish on the
> front page, which would have distinguished it from any Movement publication
> I had ever seen, but I backed down and ended up publishing several plain
> vanilla, non-formatted editions before leaving Purusha.
> 
> The reason I didn't like raising donations is that it altered my perception
> of people. It tainted my relationships with friends, and I couldn't walk
> into a room of movement people without scanning it for potential donors. I
> would have preferred that we started a bread baking or jelly making business
> like the Trappists and refrained from bugging people for money.
>

I never was on your list, Rick.  But I did receive some really good letters 
when I donated to 
certain people.  I never felt angry at the individuals asking for money because 
I knew they 
had been put in that awkward situation by the TMO higher ups.  No one was ever 
pushy,altho I did sense sometimes that people might be giving me more attnetion 
in 
hopes of getting a donation.  Mostly, I just started feeling uncomfortable with 
many 
aspects of the TMO itself, most of which have been discussed here many times.
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Begging money and charity

[wayback71]

We are on the same page, Sal.  I too stopped giving ( and i never gave all that 
much), and 
one reason was the lack of honesty, the sense that everyone was pretending to 
one degree 
or another. The other reason I stopped is because I felt the entire TMO was 
off-track 
regarding money on every level and in every endeavor and for many many many 
years.  I 
don't want to be a part of that or enable that. 
I like the idea that some people can help the world by being in a 
monastery-like 
environment, though. And for some the years of intensive meditation/yoga/quiet 
ought to 
help them grow and hopefully help world consciousness.  Still, I heard MMY say 
on several 
occasions that NO westerners were cut out to be monks.  It would be a stressful 
strain 
because it was not part of our culture or tradition.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This assumes, wrongly IMO, that the people doing the giving want phony, 
> "glowing" reports--in effect, mood-making over anything of substance.  
> When I was a donor I would have given anything for a little honesty.  
> It was the feeling of  donating to a seriously flawed cause and to 
> people who refused to deal with anything like reality that caused me to 
> eventually stop.  I doubt  I was the only one.
> 
> Sal
> 
> 
> On Jan 24, 2006, at 3:49 PM, wayback71 wrote:
> 
> > However. this process means that the
> >  folks on Purusha and MD cannot be really honest about their own 
> > feelings. They are pretty
> >  much "forced" to give glowing, blissful reports so that their donors 
> > continue to contribute. 
> >  Donations would dry up if the donor thought things weren't just great 
> > or complained or
> >  ever expressed misgivings. And the Purousha and MD people know that, 
> > even if
> >  subconsciously. This cycle perpetuates itself.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Begging money and charity

[wayback71]

There is another thing to remember about asking for ongoing support, especially 
with 
Purusha and MD.  Part of this process for them involves writing letters and 
emails to their 
donors  - giving inside and on the spot info about what is going on in the TMO. 
 It is 
sweet and really involves the donor emotionally.  However. this process means 
that the 
folks on Purusha and MD cannot be really honest about their own feelings. They 
are pretty 
much "forced" to give glowing, blissful reports so that their donors continue 
to contribute.  
Donations would dry up if the donor thought things weren't just great or 
complained or 
ever expressed misgivings. And the Purousha and MD people know that, even if 
subconsciously. This cycle perpetuates itself.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > The thing that's fascinating to me is the "trickle-
> > down craziness" involved with this. It's not just a 
> > case of some lazy fucks realizing that there is an
> > easy way to avoid working, and that it's called 
> > begging. That's just one side of the phenomenon and
> > of the conditioning.
> > 
> > The other side of the conditioning is seen in the
> > *sponsors*, the people who have been taught that 
> > there is some *benefit* to themselves that accrues
> > when they pay so that these guys and gals never have 
> > to work.  It's a remarkably symbiotic relationship; 
> > one side of the equation couldn't exist without 
> > the other. 
> > 
> > I know that a lot of people here and in spiritual
> > trips in general just assume that this is all a given,
> > and that it's always worked this way -- people who
> > have chosen a full-time spiritual "career" being 
> > supported by those who have money and have chosen
> > a more householder path.  I'm challenging the very
> > *idea* because I really believe that it's a *bad*
> > idea, and that most of the problems that one can
> > find in *any* spiritual tradition spring from this
> > assumption, and from this practice. Historically,
> > the spiritual traditions in which the monks or 
> > clergy pay their own way in life, and are *not*
> > supported by the "rank and file" members of the
> > organization, seem to me to be much cleaner and
> > spiritually healthier.
> > 
> > Just *think* about it for a moment -- it's one of
> > the biggest scams in human history. In almost every
> > era and in every tradition, all that you had to do
> > to avoid getting a job like everybody else was to
> > claim to be "spiritual" and get other people to pay
> > so that you could be "spiritual" full time.  I'm 
> > open to the possibility that many of these full-time
> > teachers might have done a few nice things for the
> > world, but when you look at it objectively, it's
> > really quite amazing that no one really challenges
> > the status quo of this whole scene and questions
> > it.  The meme of the rank-and-file rabble paying
> > for the lives of the spiritual elite is that 
> > taken for granted, that ingrained in the collective
> > consciousness.
> >
> 
> 
> This is healthy questioning.
> 
> The kind of giving where you buy yourself a good conscience and a
> better feeling of yourself by the giving, makes me feel quite
> uncomfortable. It could be healthy to ask oneself: why do I need to
> buy myself a good conscience? 
> 
> A lot of developmental aid has been given to the developing countries,
> but how much has it really helped those people? Look at Africa? Could
> it be worse without the aid and interfering in the lives of those
> people by westerners in the name of charity.
> 
> I am all for support for the poor and weak. Unfortunately this support
> often comes in a form that makes it possible for people to continue
> with the attitudes and lifestyle that has made them poor and weak.
> Basically the same applies for spiritual people. 
> 
> The idea of people in spiritual organizations living luxurious lives
> through actively collecting support money feels disgusting. Even more
> disgusting feels the present trend in many organizations to collect
> money to charity purposes and then actually use at least part of that
> money to empire building for your organization and your own luxurious
> life.
> 
> Mother Theresa is often seen as an epitome of selfless giving. But was
> she really? She also powerfully preached against birth control. In
> other words she actively contributed to the situation that a lot of
> children are born to unbearable life-conditions. And then she created
> herself a halo by bringing a little bit relief to a few of those
> unfortunate beings.
> I have heard that Indian government doesn't like the work of her
> organization, because it attracts poor people to the big cities, which
> increases the problems of the slums. These people would be better off
> in their villages.
> 
> We send food aid to people in hunger. And what

[FairfieldLife] Re: Op-Ed on Spiritual Pollution of High-Density Hog Farms

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 1/17/06 4:44 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > Absolutely. If it weren't true, the "Left Behind"
> > series of books would not be the huge sellers they
> > are.  Modern-day (that is to say, so perverted as to
> > no longer resemble the teachings of the founder of
> > the religion) Christianity is almost as elitist and
> > bloodthirsty as modern-day (that is, again, perverted
> > to no longer resemble the teachings of the founder
> > of the religion) Islam.  The two extremes deserve
> > each other.
> 
> It's interesting and ironic that both Bush and the president of Iran believe
> that their religion's saviour will come to smite the unbelievers when things
> get bad enough, and believing this, they have no qualms about making things
> worse.

Lately, I have felt very drawn to the Buddhist concept of compassion.  Just 
reading the 
Dalai Lama's simple words whenever he speaks or gives interviews is such a 
comfort, a 
relief, and just pulls me toward a compassionate approach to life.  It is not 
all boggled up 
with GlobalCountry talk, or hell or judgment days - just simple and kind and 
obvious. 
There is a need for Buddhism now.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Happy January 12th

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>

> >
> I bet in about 10 yrs the tmo will be marketing some kind of program
> "to ensure an auspicious birth" next time around.  snip
>

Bingo!  I can imagine several things: yagyas for before you actually die, 
yagyas for after 
you die, a technique for doing as you die if you happen to be conscious, tapes 
of special 
chants to listen to as you age, ones to buy for the deathbed time, perhaps a 
special 
cremation ceremony, cremation providers and paying for the rights to have your 
ashes 
scattered somewhere special, paying for a TMO certified raja (or some newly 
created TM 
specialty career which costs tens of thousands of dollars to learn to do) to 
read scriptures 
at your service, a paving stone with your name on it somewhere sacred.  We 
could get 
really creative on this one. What a market = and people might spend tons on 
this knowing 
how important the next life will be, and also knowing that they can't take 
whatever 
remians in the bank, either - so why not give it to the TMO.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: new MAPI catalog: Raam Raj Production

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I just received a catalog in the mail from MAPI.  It sells organic 
> > cotton clothing and 
> > > bedding and the brand is called Raam Raj clothing.  In large 
> > letters onthe front cover it 
> > > says: Raam Raj Production. There are no pictures of MMY anywhere, 
> > although the return 
> > > address on the back lists Maharishi Ayurveda Products International 
> > in Colorado Springs.  
> > > This different than the usual MAPI catalog with the herbs and 
> > vitamins and Amrit.  The 
> > > prices seem typical for organic cotton items, maybe a bit high - 
> > $64 for a woman's cable 
> > > knit organic cotton sweater, $46 for men's pajama set, and $56 for 
> > a man' s button down 
> > > poplin shirt. Everything was made in India, but the designs are 
> > simple, solid colors like a 
> > > conservative, simple Land's end product.
> > >
> > 
> > Far as i know, its legit, at least in the sense of being a TMO-
> > affiliated thing.
> 
> The clothing line has been sold in all the MAPI stores for some time.
>  I'm curious why is this an issue?

I was just surprised to see a TM-related item without pictures of MMY.  Perhaps 
MAPI has 
been selling things without the photos for some time, but I never noticed if 
they have.  
Except for a small print return address spelling out Maharishi Ayurveda 
Products 
International, this catalog had no references to anything having to do with TM 
or any of 
the jargon, photos or gold embellishment that go with it.   It is mainstream.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Laughing With, At and At/With

[wayback71]

Alright already I humbly suggest folks, it's time to move on. Maybe go to 
law school.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In 
> FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Judy writes:
> > Sure.  But it would be more accurate to say (of the
> > ant and Barry), "That isn't the kind of attack that
> > can do you any damage."  What makes it an attack is
> > the intention of the attacker, not the effect on the
> > attackee.
> > 
> > Tom T:
> > The thought stopper for me in this was who and how is the intention
> > of the attacker known. By inferrence it can not be an atack until 
> > the intention is known so it starts out as just a statement 
> > intended to cause a laugh. At some point it would appeat that the 
> > person recieving the statement intending to cause a laugh has to go 
> > inside and make a judgement that they know that the writer of said 
> > statement intended to hurt them specifically. It kind of sounds 
> > like mind reading in that the  uninttending attacker has to read 
> > the mind of the attackee to know AH this will really p*ss this one 
> > off and then goes ahead and posts it anyway. On the other hand the 
> > supposed attacked may have a world view that assumes all comments 
> > are attacks, or the supposed attacker has a personal vendetta that 
> > is a known fact. This seems pretty convoluted to me. Maybe we just 
> > need to laugh more and worry less. Tom T
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try again, briefly.  To laugh *at* someone is,
> virtually by definition, an attack.  Confirming that
> one is laughing *at* somebody is therefore equivalent
> to stating one's intention, so no minds need to be
> read.
> 
> Please note that in this instance neither Lawson
> nor myself was the target of the attack; we were 
> commenting on the hypocrisy of the attacker
> claiming it *wasn't* an attack on the person being
> attacked.
> 
> (The attacker, needless to say, went on to attack
> both of us, not even under the guise of laughing
> at us; and among other absurdities, pretended that
> we were somehow "threatened" when we hadn't been
> the targets in the first place.)
>








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[FairfieldLife] new MAPI catalog: Raam Raj Production

[wayback71]

I just received a catalog in the mail from MAPI.  It sells organic cotton 
clothing and 
bedding and the brand is called Raam Raj clothing.  In large letters onthe 
front cover it 
says: Raam Raj Production. There are no pictures of MMY anywhere, although the 
return 
address on the back lists Maharishi Ayurveda Products International in Colorado 
Springs.  
This different than the usual MAPI catalog with the herbs and vitamins and 
Amrit.  The 
prices seem typical for organic cotton items, maybe a bit high - $64 for a 
woman's cable 
knit organic cotton sweater, $46 for men's pajama set, and $56 for a man' s 
button down 
poplin shirt. Everything was made in India, but the designs are simple, solid 
colors like a 
conservative, simple Land's end product.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL's Adult Yahoo Category

[wayback71]

Could it be the info in the files about sex and MMY?  I assumed that Tom had 
reported this 
to "the authorities."

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 12/11/05 9:36 AM, uns_tressor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > It would be good if the Moderator is sent a copy of the email
> > that Yahoo received to get FFL transferred from wherever
> > it was to "Romance_Relationships/Adult", which seems
> > peposterous when one sees all the caterwailing that goes
> > on. I smell a malicious intention.
> > Uns.
> 
> I am the moderator, as you know, and I haven't been sent anything. We don't
> know why the switch occurred. Someone may have complained to them that we
> are using cuss words and discussing "adult" topics, or it may even be an
> automatic switch because I have words like "sexuality" and "homosexuality"
> in the group description. I'm going to try to get to the bottom of it.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Vlodrop report from a Purusha

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- wayback71 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > This description brought back lots of memories of
> > "the old days" - I remember feeling the 
> > same devotion, confidence that all's right with the
> > world (especially the TM world people), 
> > the moment to moment pleasure, the sense of being so
> > blessed to be right there at the 
> > most special place at the most special time, and the
> > utter magic of being in MMY's 
> > environment.  HIs darshan is so amazing, there is
> > just no denying it.  Combine that 
> > darshan with the ideas that are presented - you feel
> > as if you are right there on the cutting 
> > edge of plans that will change the course of time.
> > It is heady stuff. Add into the mix the 
> > good friends and really nice people...when
> > things are going well around MMY and in the 
> > individual nervous system,  it is amazing.  But, I
> > still don't understand how a person can 
> > constantly align themselves and their feelings and
> > beliefs with MMY's and the TMO's.  I 
> > was unable to do that.
> 
> I had the exact same reaction reading the post; how
> wonderful it is to bask in MMY's darshan and the
> excitement of all these wonderful plans to enlighten
> the world. How could anybody standup and say,
> "Maharishi, you're crazy!"? But once you leave that
> atmosphere and that darshan of the absolute, all the
> "point" values have a new context called "reality" and
> in that new context these plans become crazy. Such a
> massive disconnect between the darshan of MMY and his
> crazy plans and behaviors. 

Yep - that's it.  I am glad I had those darshan experiences, even tho the 
disconnect has 
been a struggle.  Not sure what it all adds up to cosmically, but it sure gives 
you a taste of 
a huge range of possible experience! 
> 
>   
> __ 
> Do you Yahoo!? 
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. 
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Vlodrop report from a Purusha

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/27/05 7:06 AM, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > But, I still don't understand how a person can
> > constantly align themselves and their feelings and beliefs with MMY's and 
> > the
> > TMO's.  I 
> > was unable to do that.
> 
> Just drink the Kool-Aid Wayback, it's Vedic, it's got to be good for you.

See, that's just exactly what I cannot do, drink the Kool aide!   Altho, 
truthfully, about 33 
years ago there was a period of about 6 months on TTC when I might have.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Vlodrop report from a Purusha

[wayback71]

This description brought back lots of memories of "the old days" - I remember 
feeling the 
same devotion, confidence that all's right with the world (especially the TM 
world people), 
the moment to moment pleasure, the sense of being so blessed to be right there 
at the 
most special place at the most special time, and the utter magic of being in 
MMY's 
environment.  HIs darshan is so amazing, there is just no denying it.  Combine 
that 
darshan with the ideas that are presented - you feel as if you are right there 
on the cutting 
edge of plans that will change the course of time. It is heady stuff. Add into 
the mix the 
good friends and really nice people...when things are going well around MMY 
and in the 
individual nervous system,  it is amazing.  But, I still don't understand how a 
person can 
constantly align themselves and their feelings and beliefs with MMY's and the 
TMO's.  I 
was unable to do that.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The person who wrote this refers to Lake Tahoe and Seelisberg, so it might
> be David Vedovi or Bob Cranson:
> 
> Dear Friends,
> 
> I went to Holland for Guru Purnima, with most of our North Carolina group,
> and most of us stayed on for close to a month, returning just over a week
> ago.  Our trip came as a last-minute surprise, which is why I disappeared
> without warning.  Being around Maharishi was as evolutionary as it's ever
> been.  More so!  Even though no one seems to get to see him in person any
> more, it doesn't matter.  He is as attentive to every individual and every
> detail as he's always been, and much less cautious about what he'll say, to
> whom.  These weeks were a refresher course in how he works, how he thinks.
> I think it was a great reminder and a great inspiration to everyone who
> attended, to see that he's still every bit the master and the mastermind.
> 
> The whole experience was great.  Even being tripled up in little trailers in
> a vacation water park full of young children and teenagers for the first and
> last weeks proved okay, partly because we were never around the park during
> the daytime, and partly because I lucked out nicely on my roommates -- which
> luck lasted throughout the entire three-plus weeks.
> 
> Our meals and programs were all in tents beside the main building at Meru --
> or, more romantically, "pavilions."  For tents, these were pretty serious
> structures, of serious size, with solid floors, high ceilings, glass doors
> and windows, chandeliers (in the dining tent, anyway), air handlers,
> carpeting, and vestibules that afforded good protection from the frequent
> rain as we stood in line for food, and good protection for our shoes as they
> waited at the door for us to finish meditating.  Purusha and Mother Divine
> were fortunate to have actual program tents, in addition to dining tents.
> Most conference participants, during the first five days of maximum
> attendance, had to do their program sitting in chairs in their
> dining/meeting tents.  But no one seemed to be complaining.
> 
> We rarely glimpsed Mother Divine, partly because their tents were separate,
> away from the rest of the conference -- but we saw plenty of other folks,
> starting with the catering company handling our meals.  It was odd to have
> waiters and especially waitresses, but we all adapted.  The catering staff
> were mostly college students, generally from somewhere in Germany's East.
> They were pretty normal students, although either being German or wearing
> uniforms (or both) gave them a good, efficient, professional air.  One of
> our guys struck up a conversation with one of their guys, and found he was a
> psychology student who, in the student's words, was spending the summer
> "studying human behavior."  No lack of material for him!
> 
> Our dining and program tents were right in the traffic flow to the main
> dining and meeting tents, so frequent encounters with non-Purusha friends
> were inevitable.  But surprisingly little socializing went on, beyond that.
> In fact, several of you may even have been there, without my ever seeing
> you.  If I passed you with a blank stare (which I did to at least one of my
> dear friends, who eventually brought it to my attention), it's not that I
> was trying to ignore you!  My attention just seemed more settled, less
> "outward" than it's been in the past.  It wasn't that we were read the riot
> act about socializing, or anything like that.  Purusha just seems to be
> maturing nicely into what Maharishi has always wanted us to be:
> self-referral, self-sufficient and "on the program."  Nonetheless, it was
> wonderful to run into old friends, including some from distant corners of
> the world whom I hadn't seen in twenty years -- SO wonderful!
> 
> If we had followed the schedule that everyone else was on, though, we sure
> wouldn't have been on the program, or at least not on our usual program.
> Meetings regularly ran from 1:30 -

[FairfieldLife] Re: slight change in directive to recerts

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kenny H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> snip
> To me, it seems like MMY/the TMO comes up with these loopy ideas,
> underneath it all, maybe in their subconcscious mind they are looking
> to be able to say, "See, the world sucks and once again here is the
> proof, we are offering them Heaven on Earth and these little
> cockroaches can't see that" and allows the sense of self-righteous
> arrogance to continue. 
> 
> It's just their way of creating their particular blend of drama.
> That's why I think none of these ideas will ever really amount to
> much, the drama would be over and that is not what the TMO is looking for.
> 
> Ken

Interesting idea - that in order for the drama to continue and to keep certain 
types of 
people hooked, you cannot accomplish your goals.  The TMO needs these hopeless 
projects.  Anyway, all this stuff  made it easy for me to disengage and sit 
back and watch 
the show  - we could rationalize it as practice for cc!!  I think the next 10 
years will be 
fascinating.  I look forward to it.
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Why in the world would a developer work with the TMO
> > in constructing a peace palace? "Hey you, build us a
> > huge building, you finance everything and let us name
> > the building and have several floors in the building
> > for a really cheap rate."  I can see developers just
> > lining up to do this! This is such stupid thinking, as
> > usual, from the TMO. Thought up by people with
> > absolutely no experience with little "r" reality.
> > 
> > --- wayback71 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > I have been told that recerts are not to worry about
> > > finding Maharishi Enlightenment 
> > > Centers any more (space in exisiting malls which
> > > would be reconfigured). Now they are to 
> > > arrange for the building of Peace Palaces. 
> > > Apparently, this means that they are to look for 
> > > land that says "build to suit" and to let the
> > > developer handle the financing and building 
> > > details.  I am only assuming that this means that
> > > the TMO is actually and truly going to 
> > > pay for this stuff, since I cannot imagine anyone,
> > > even a TB, offering money for this type of 
> > > venture.  I think MMY is planning on spending a good
> > > deal of the money collected over the 
> > > years, wants to leave a physical legacy of big
> > > beautiful buildings to help perpetuate the 
> > > teachings.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs




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[FairfieldLife] Re: slight change in directive to recerts

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have been told that recerts are not to worry about finding
> Maharishi Enlightenment 
> > Centers any more (space in exisiting malls which would be
> reconfigured). Now they are to 
> > arrange for the building of Peace Palaces.  Apparently, this means
> that they are to look for 
> > land that says "build to suit" and to let the developer handle the
> financing and building 
> > details.  I am only assuming that this means that the TMO is
> actually and truly going to 
> > pay for this stuff, since I cannot imagine anyone, even a TB,
> offering money for this type of 
> > venture.  I think MMY is planning on spending a good deal of the
> money collected over the 
> > years, wants to leave a physical legacy of big beautiful buildings
> to help perpetuate the 
> > teachings.
> 
> What stuff is the TMO going to pay for?  As you say, the tmo expects
> the developer to finance the building costs.  Also I think recerts are
> still trying to sell RAM Bonds which is just another word for
> donation.  Do you mean pay for the land?
> 
> When it came time to put real money down for mall leases the grand
> plan fizzled.  I still think MMY sees the US as a place from where
> funds come to him, not the other way around.

I didn't know that the TMO never came up with the money for the mall leases -in 
that case, 
this is standard operating procedure and will have the standard result: nothing 
gained and 
the loss of a few more now-disillusioned people.





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[FairfieldLife] slight change in directive to recerts

[wayback71]

I have been told that recerts are not to worry about finding Maharishi 
Enlightenment 
Centers any more (space in exisiting malls which would be reconfigured). Now 
they are to 
arrange for the building of Peace Palaces.  Apparently, this means that they 
are to look for 
land that says "build to suit" and to let the developer handle the financing 
and building 
details.  I am only assuming that this means that the TMO is actually and truly 
going to 
pay for this stuff, since I cannot imagine anyone, even a TB, offering money 
for this type of 
venture.  I think MMY is planning on spending a good deal of the money 
collected over the 
years, wants to leave a physical legacy of big beautiful buildings to help 
perpetuate the 
teachings.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: What if...

[wayback71]

You are so right.  I find myself not wondering about motives any more at all - 
its' like a 
soap opera just to sit back and watch it all. But I still seem to be curious 
about the more 
mundane details (like are people actually being paid).

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > What if...
> > 
> > What if the subconscious purpose of all the latest
> > TMO
> > activities was, in fact, to shrink the organization
> > down
> > to a nucleus of True Believers who hope to never
> > have
> > to work another day in their lives after Maharishi
> > dies?
> > 
> > This would be completely consistent with the actions
> > of the TMO in the last few years, especially the
> > last few
> > months.
> 
> The closer I get to a delighted, "I don't know"
> regarding the TMO and MMY's behavior the easier my
> life becomes. Who really knows what all this nonsense
> is. Our endless speculation reveals nothing other than
> more craziness giving rise to even more rounds of
> speculation. All I know is that the effect it has on
> me is to let go of any expectation regarding the
> TMO/MMY. I can't really psychologically invest in it
> anymore. How could you and remain sane?
> 
> 
> 
>   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
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> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > and click 'Join This Group!' 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is this true? Rajas talk of land purchased, new centers launched

[wayback71]

If you get thur the first several blah blah blah paragrpahs of the article 
titled Rajas Offer 
Achievements etc etc, Paul Potter, the raja of NY and area says that 80 acres 
of land have 
been purchased near Princeton, NJ, that 12 new centers have been set up..  
it sounds as 
if these are more than goals, but actual real world events.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > If you go to www.globalgoodnews.com/world-peace.html, the article 
> talks at length about 
> > all sorts of lands purchased, new centers started across the USA.  
> Does anyone here know, 
> > is this stuff true?  Where is the money for all this coming from?  Is 
> the TMO providing 
> > funds, at last?  Have the recertified teachers been paid as 
> promised?  Who signs off on the 
> > loans and mortgages and leasing contracts for all this?
> 
> I found this, which says the *goal* is to...
> 
> "The goal is to set this up within the next six months. This will be 
> the combined target of all the Rajas. "




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[FairfieldLife] Is this true? Rajas talk of land purchased, new centers launched

[wayback71]

If you go to www.globalgoodnews.com/world-peace.html, the article talks at 
length about 
all sorts of lands purchased, new centers started across the USA.  Does anyone 
here know, 
is this stuff true?  Where is the money for all this coming from?  Is the TMO 
providing 
funds, at last?  Have the recertified teachers been paid as promised?  Who 
signs off on the 
loans and mortgages and leasing contracts for all this?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY's speech from Holland

[wayback71]

Go to www.globalgoodnews.com  Click on world Peace on the left.  Then, under 
the 
heading "Success" is the first Top Story, called "Four Locations to Radiate 
peace from 
Sunrise to Sunset"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is the link to the Global Good News? Thanks
> > If you look at Global Good News, there is a summary of MMY's speech 
> during the Guru 
> > Purnima festivities.  Tony Nader is called Maharja Nadar Raam-ji.  I 
> never heard the "ji" 
> > part used before.  In addition, MMYwants there to be 4 locations on 
> the planet where a 
> > group of 500 yogic flyers is doing flying nearly 24 hours a day 
> (2000 people in each 
> > location, rotating in groups of 500, flying for an hour at a time). 
> The 4 spots on earth are 
> > Vedic City, Vlodrop, South America and India.  This is supposed to 
> begin within 6 months.




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[FairfieldLife] MMY's speech from Holland

[wayback71]

If you look at Global Good News, there is a summary of MMY's speech during the 
Guru 
Purnima festivities.  Tony Nader is called Maharja Nadar Raam-ji.  I never 
heard the "ji" 
part used before.  In addition, MMYwants there to be 4 locations on the planet 
where a 
group of 500 yogic flyers is doing flying nearly 24 hours a day (2000 people in 
each 
location, rotating in groups of 500, flying for an hour at a time). The 4 spots 
on earth are 
Vedic City, Vlodrop, South America and India.  This is supposed to begin within 
6 months.




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[FairfieldLife] Livingston Manor now hot real estate area says NY Times

[wayback71]

In the Sunday, 7/24 edition of the NY Times, page 1 of the Metro section, is an 
article 
about the turn around in Livingston Manor in the past 36 months.  Real 
genitrification, 
with Pilates studio, Japanese art gallery, proposed $80 million mountaintop spa 
(not TM 
affiliated), high end sporting good stores, etc. If you had ever been to that 
area before, it 
had overtones of Deliverance combined witih Appalachian hard times.  I bet the 
TM owned 
property there is worth a bundle now. New Yorkers are flocking to buy land 
there now, 
especially the gay community.  If the TMO keeps the land, tears down the 
exisiting 
structures, and develops the place beautifully, it could give the TMO some 
cachet.  Or, 
maybe they will cash in and sell the place.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Honest answers (was comments on Gable's editorial)

[wayback71]

> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
 > > 
> > > If it's confession time I visited Krishnamurti in about 1984 in
> > > England, but he was older than Maharishi so its ok.

> >TURQ B wrote: 
> > I think, Off, that I'm beginning to get a handle on when you
> > *think* you're being lighthearted and funny, and suspect
> > you think that this is one of those times.  
> 
> 
> > However, can you step back and look for a moment at the
> > *language* you use here, and what it implies about what
> > the TMO teaches and the mindset it creates in its long-time
> > practitioners?
> > 
> > "Confession?"  It's "ok?" >>


off world wrote: 
> It's tongue in cheek. 

> TURQ B wrote:
> > 
> > IMO it is Ok even if Maharishi and the TMO feel that it
> > isn't. 
 
off world wrote: 
> They have their logic. 
> I think you need to answer the question I asked several posts back 
> about keeping the purity of the teachiing.
> I have to ask myself this question: If there was little
> attempt to keep the purity of the teaching by being careful what
> gets interjected and absorbed in to it, what would happen over time
> to the teaching of the knowledge. I think everyone here should try
> an honest open minded objective attempt to answer this PARTICULAR
> question precisely (and concisely)
> OffWorld
> 
TURQ B wrote:> >>> And it's all so unnecessary.  And so based on fear.
> > 
> 
off world wrote: 
> I think it's based on logic. see above.

So, off world, if you use your "logic", how does the fact that Krishnamurti was 
OLD make it 
okay that you saw another teacher?  I never heard MMY say that a teacher's age 
made them 
"not count" in the TMO rulebook.

Also, what made you want to go and see him?  Maybe the same reasons that other 
people 
decide to go and see another teacher, too? And once in a while, a person finds 
the  best 
path and best teacher for themselves by going to see someone else.  I think 
this happened 
to Guru Dev.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

[wayback71]

I think stories are made up of a sequence of cause and effect events.   People 
love to have 
a sense of cause and effect, because without that, they get nervous - nervous 
that maybe 
they cannot control things by their own actions and good sense.  People need 
one foot on 
the intial cause, and the other foot straddles a gap of empty space and lands 
on the effect.  
If either foot is not touching ground, they fall into a chasm of... nothing, 
chaos, no "I" 
controlling this life and the horrors it can inflict.

I work with children aqnd families in a school- especially with kids with 
learning 
disabilities and behavior problems.  When the going gets tough, it is amazing 
how quickly 
teachers fall back on the old "if only his parents would..., he 
would not be this 
way"  (he would do his homework be polite, sit quietly, wahtever) They get over 
it, but it 
seems instinctive in times of conflict and worry to locate very specifically 
that cause.

It is a huge conflict to realize that your Master has a human side.  A relative 
nervous 
system on autopilot living out its own inevitable sequenceof events, just as 
"you" are.   
That is the story I am telling myself lately. For me, it feels good to 
sometimes get to a 
feeling of forgiveness of Maharishi's humanity.  That's the part of the story 
that I like.  But 
the early stuff  -  MMY as a young man, etc. just tires me out.  As you say, we 
will never 
know it.  Can't find the cause and effects there - so I use the "story" of the 
relative nervous 
system etc. to acccount for the disappointments while I hold on to all the 
incredible 
spiritual benefits.  And if everyuthing really does happen as it should, well 
M's behavior 
and my responses to it - doubts and all - areall  just inevitable events.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've got a serious question for everybody and no
> implicit criticism is meant and I'm also curious if
> there is a legitimate/valid, whatever reason, someone
> can come up with that I'm not quite getting. Why do we
> need any story whatsoever regarding MMY? We can
> neither confirm nor disconfirm any story. The
> arguments go on and on. Most of our stories whether in
> the pro or con camp are simply narratives of what we
> already believe. All we have is our own experiences
> regarding MMY. The stories can never, ever resolve;
> they never "make sense" unless you deny huge chunks of
> contradictory material. So, why and what is this need
> that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle with?
> -Peter
> 
> --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I had a similar (but not exactly the same) set of
> > insights
> > not long ago, Jim, while sitting at one of my
> > favorite cafes
> > here in Paris.  I'll try to find it and post it
> > here.  It's
> > fascinating that such things must be "in the air"
> > right now,
> > and are being picked up on by people who cared (and
> > still
> > care, despite everything) for Maharishi.
> > 
> > Unc
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > After thinking over the last day about where
> > Maharishi went wrong, 
> > I 
> > > have reached the following conclusions:
> > > 
> > > He starts out as a naive Indian student and
> > seeker. By naive I mean 
> > he 
> > > knows very little about the West, or the rest of
> > the world outside 
> > > India. I suspect too that he was probably kind of
> > a geek as a 
> > > householder, physics student and all...
> > > 
> > > He is fortunate through his seeking to find
> > Brahmananda Saraswati, 
> > and 
> > > commences his study with him. He also decides he
> > will be a celibate 
> > > monk, etc. Through his association with Guru Dev,
> > he derives a 
> > clear 
> > > understanding of Reality, and finds he can speak
> > about it clearly 
> > too.
> > > 
> > > I think what was going on here was a couple of
> > things: Maharishi 
> > comes 
> > > from India where Hinduism and the knowledge of the
> > Veda are 
> > relatively 
> > > commonplace. When I think about his early
> > exposition of his 
> > teaching, 
> > > there is not a lot of content, just some mantras
> > and their proper 
> > use, 
> > > derived from his closeness to Guru Dev. 
> > > 
> > > Profound knowledge to be sure, though something
> > which could be 
> > derived 
> > > relatively quickly with the proper guidance, if
> > one is already 
> > > operating within a supportive cultural context for
> > such knowledge. 
> > > Combine this with his ability to speak well, and
> > possessing a 
> > > charismatic personality, and who emerges?
> > Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
> > > 
> > > Then as he spreads his message and the knowledge
> > of the mantras, 
> > > absorbed by him from Guru Dev, he enjoys enormous
> > success. The 
> > success 
> > > is due to him having a systematic and practical
> > technique to back 
> > up 
> > > his speaking. However, he remains a naive mo

[FairfieldLife] Re: England down the drain/TMO privatised?

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> As I have said before, MMY is raising the bar so high as to 
> exclude all but the most enlightend in the TMO with regard to 
> success in his latest program, snip to end

Most enlightened?  I doubt it. More likely most devoted, or people with no 
other skills or 
nothing else to do, or even (a la Bobanda Brigante) most incompetent.  I 
personally know 
recerts who fall into at least one of these categories.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: England down the drain/TMO privatised?

[wayback71]

--
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Maharishi is not hiding the plans. They are incomprehensible due to 
> > the complexity of the task he is accomplishing. Infinite multi-
> > tasking.
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > When I read this after just seeing my teacher I feel sad.  He 
> > would not hide any plans of his. 
> >
>jyouells wrote: 
> Jim, 
> 
>   The problem is: After 10 or 20 or 30+ years of TM if they are still
> incomprehensible to us, maybe he (MMY) doesn't comprehend them either
> or just maybe, the plans are not what he says they are 
> 
>   "Incomprehensible due to the complexity of the task" is similar to
> the logic that is used to justify all kinds of behavior that just
> doesn't seem right at all. 
> 
> JohnY

The other problem is that most of us got involved in the TMO and devoted to MMY 
when 
the whole Plan seemed fairly easy to comprehend, and it was a Plan we wanted to 
help 
with.  Over the years, the TMO appears to have changed so dramatically, at 
least as 
regards, logic, money, misuse of money, the way it treats other people, selling 
of 
knowledge etc etc etc.  Most of us ended up looking around at some point and 
realizing 
that we are in the midst of an organization and with a teacher that we would 
never even go 
near if we were not already involved.  I don't think it should be that hard to 
be a person 
who wants to meditate and "do good" and live a life .  Does it need to be such 
a complex, 
mind twisting thing?  If I have learned anything here at FFL, it is that gurus 
and their plans 
are not all purity, they can be - in fact usually are - gray and a mixed bag, 
just like the 
rest of us.  But also that I have every right to step away from Plans and 
people who seem 
unethical, unkind, or off balance.  Once we make truth and integrity and 
compassion so 
complex, we can easily loose our footing.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: England down the drain?

[wayback71]

Thoughtful post, but way too logical.  I agree with you. However, I think I 
have been 
brainwashed by Bob!!  If we use Bob's logic here, England's problem is that 
they really tried 
wholeheartedly to fulfill MMY's instructions over the years.They obyed him as 
best they 
could. They devotedly built up an organizaton over the decades.  Now that they 
have done 
as good a job as the prices allowed, they are too successful.  MMY now has to 
slow down 
the evolution of the West.  Since England's TMO and meditating community os so 
powerful 
and devoted, they should be thwarted.  They are too positive a force. Hence the 
recent 
directives.  Using this way of looking at it all, it is really impossible to 
please MMY.   The 
only thing that seems to get positive attention in theTMO is sending in money, 
and as the 
Kaplans found out, even that is risky.   Boy, do I sound cynical!  UGH  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "claudiouk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've just seen this conference replay. I can see Maharishi's plan 
> now, to select a few countries he'd concentrate resourcs on, apart 
> from India, to "demonstrate" the reality of the "effect" he's 
> creating with his Indian pundits; and whilst doing so he'd withdraw 
> his organisation from other countries, firstly the UK, because he 
> views it as so hell-bent on destruction, to act as some comparison 
> group. As a media attention-seeking device this may work..
> 
> But from my perspective his reaction to Blair's re-election is
> misinformed in the first place. Three fifths of the population voted
> against Blair, are now against the war and any further aggressive
> tendencies; his majority was dramatically reduced and he's not
> expected to survive as leader of his party for much longer. This is
> in sharp contrast to the situation in the US where Bush was re-
> elected with a record majority and where most people still support
> aggressive tendencies. This is far more significant because the US is
> the only real superpower of this age.
> 
> Moreover Britain has special links with India and Maharishi that no
> other country has. British scholars were instrumental in reviving
> interest in Vedic scriptures within India during the Empire. The
> Beatles played their part in spreading Maharishi's fame around the
> world. The largest community of Indians outside India lives in
> harmony in the UK. As for British meditators, they have contributed
> generously to the World Peace project fund, pioneered the Natural Law
> parties and made a success of the European Siddhaland and its
> Maharishi school.
> 
> The trends in Britain have been increasingly positive in the last
> decade or so. From being the "sick man of Europe" the country is now
> prospering as the fourth largest economy in the world - a sign,
> surely, of Nature support. There has been the historic peace
> agreement in Northern Ireland, after decades of terrorism. Surveys
> show that British people are now less materialistic, valuing "quality
> of life" more. The younger generation even is becoming less
> hedonistic and more mature (for instance see
> http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?
> story=AY2411894S&news_headline=hols_and_cars_slip_down_quality_of_life
> _wish and
> http://society.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,7838,1481132,00.html ).
> All these trends point to a country poised for a revival of interest
> in spirituality and TM. Maharishi's negative view of Britain must be
> linked to the bad old days of the British Empire. Paradoxically,
> after telling off Britain for its divide and rule policies he goes
> on to implement such a policy himself, in isolating and demonising
> Britain as Satan incarnate!
> 
> Maharishi's justification for the withdrawal of teachers contradicts
> years of promotion of the principle of increasing national coherence,
> since it is implied that at least in the case of Britain increasing
> coherence through initiatons etc is actually a bad thing - feeding
> the "snake's" negativity. However bad the situation in Britain is it
> is not a war zone where teachers' lives are endangered - where it
> would otherwise be sensible to relocate in some proximity elsewhere.
> It is now a scientifically proven principle that coherence-increasing
> groups positively affect national coherence, no matter what has gone
> on before and whatever leader or political system is in power - right?
> 
> This abandonment of British meditators is also unethical. When people
> are initiated they are specifically promised continued checking
> support for life. Teachers who recently paid to become recertified
> suddenly find themselves unable to teach in their own country anyway -
> a rather fraudulent situation. The Movement has already sold much of
> its real estate assets - capital that was to be reinvested in Peace
> Palaces here. Now these funds are likely to go out of the country -
> the British meditating community will never recover.
> 
> What is unethical is surely violating 

[FairfieldLife] Re: England down the drain?

[wayback71]

Bob, in your opinion, are these ideas springing from MMY, or is all this stuff 
about England 
due to the bad and manipulative influence of Bevan and Hagelin?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Forwarded to me from the TM Friends list:
> 
> In his Press Conference today Maharishi said he closed down the 
> British TM
> movement a few days ago. He also said that he now takes away all 
> attention on
> England. This is a very serious and unprecedented decision that 
> undoubtedly will
> affect Britain dramatically.
> 
> This is his reaction to the reelection of Blair on the 5th of May. 
> This
> reelection was a sign that aggressive military and political 
> activities are
> still supported by the majority of the English people.
> 
> It seems that he now wants to state a concrete example what will 
> occur when
> access to Vedic technologies and its coherence-creating effects are 
> withdrawn
> from a country. It has formerly been said that the Grahashanti yagyas 
> can be
> directed to selected countries. So the massive mahayagya now going on 
> in India
> will not benefit Britain.
> 
> Maharishi said in a Press Conference last year that there will be a 
> great
> difference between the countries that benefit from the coherence 
> creating effect
> and those that don't. The former will flourish and the latter will 
> perish and
> sooner or later he said they will wake up to an insight about the 
> reason for
> this difference. If England does not wake up it will sink into the 
> Sea Maharishi
> has repeatedly said (already southeast England is slowly becoming 
> submerged).
> 
> So while, in the last 5 weeks, growing signs of remarkable positive 
> tendencies
> and improvements have been irradiating from India to neighboring 
> countries (as
> reported in Maharishis Press Conferences), in countries that are not 
> exposed to
> this coherence creating influence, we can expect a growth of negative
> tendencies, like increasing social discord, economic crises, terror 
> attacks,
> epidemics, disasters (for example scientists warn for a giant 
> Tsunami, manifold
> greater than the one in the Indian Ocean to occur in La Palma Canary 
> Islands -
> it is predicted to affect England among others, see
> http://www.benfieldhrc.org/SiteRoot/in_the_news/press_cuttings/Insuran
> ce%20Day/n\
> ew_york_tsunami.htm).
> 
> I hope for the sake of all the good people in England that it will 
> not take too
> long before the English people will stop supporting destructive 
> political and
> military activities, and choose constructive peaceful policies 
> including the
> support of Maharishi's Peace Programs.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wasn't it our prediction they would end up in the Pundits houses

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 5/11/05 12:34 AM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > 
> > If they rehabbed every room, with one purusha to a room, would there
> > be enough space for the 200(last I heard) on Purusha?
> 
> I think so. The Manor's a pretty big place. But it was in bad shape 28 years
> ago, when I was a director there. Foundations needed serious work, etc. Must
> be a real mess now. There was some recent renovation work. Bevan even lived
> there for several months to oversee it. So maybe it's not so bad.

Most of Livingston Manor is entirely infected with black mold - it can be seen 
and smelled.  
As of a year ago, the only section inhabitable was a 2 story outbuilding off to 
the right of 
the main Manor/  It is only this outbuilding that has been used for small 
courses for the 
last few years.  It was fixed up to be clean and one room serves as the dining 
room and 
seats about 25 people.  That's it.

The large lecture hall, the entry hall, and all the rooms in the excutive area 
were saturated 
with mold.  The entire thing was sheeted off with plactic to prevent the mold 
from 
infesting the air.  Local workers were hired to clean up thick sheets of slick 
black mold 
down in the lower levels (where people used to do the siddhis).  They wore 
boots, used 
chemicals and brooms and scrapers, and 2 days later another sheet of black 
slime was 
growing all over again.  The big old dining halls were also sealed off, and 
when you walked 
in there, you were hit with a huge stench of moldy air.  Same with trying to 
walk thru the 
main  building.  Many years of unrepaired roof leaks and no heat caused this.   
They could 
not get a C of O for the place.  maybe that is changing, but I doubt it.

Most of the other outbuildings have caved in and no one has removed the debris. 
  For 
200 purusha to live there would take some sturdy and brave souls.  A person 
could get 
really sick there.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bye bye Brits/Scorpions Need Nectar

[wayback71]

> 
> 
> I say again - we are in the midst of the makings of a movie.
>

Llundrub wrote: 
> --None would believe the premse.

Yeah, but maybe Barry Wright could do a script that would make it zany enough 
to work.  I 
thinkpeople would find MMY's craziness believable.  What is hard to belive is 
all these 
educated, thoughtful, baby boomers actaully sticking withallthis for decades.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: HH Sri Sri Ravi Shankar

[wayback71]

For anyone interested.I was just told by someone that Sri Sri Ravi 
Shankar is 
appearing in Manhattan on Saturday, May 21 at 2pm at the Waldorf Astoria. I 
assume it is 
a lecture that is free and open to the public. 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Heavenly Mt

[wayback71]

Does anyone know how much the Kaplans lost to the TMO in Heavenly Mountain?  If 
they 
recently sold much of the area for $57 million, are they going to recoup their 
losses and 
come out ahead?  How much money did they donate over the years?  I would 
imagine that 
the TMO really misses their deep pockets.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I heard two stories one that everyone had to move out and another 
> that they property around them the homeowners and P and MD was being 
> sold but they were allowed to stay so who really knows. Guess in 
> time we will find out. So far there isnothing in the local newspaper 
> there so whatever it is it is unofficial. AT lunch today someone 
> told me they heard the homeowners were going to "take the high road" 
> and leave who knows. Entertainment. Always wondered if and why the 
> Kaplans had not sued MMY or the TMo directly for their money lose. 
> Maybe it has take all this time in court and now they will settle by 
> not sueing if the homeowners and MD and P will vacate. That does 
> seem to make sense as it is a way for them to stick it to the 
> movement for taking their money and avoiding a long drawn out costly 
> court battle. I am sure they just want to move on too and get away 
> from all of this.
> 
> The Kaplans spin so many stories about themselves to entertain us it 
> is hard to know the truth. I heard Earl is living in Malibu in the 
> mansion that was featured on the Bachelor TV show. Have no idea if 
> there is any truth to it. Apparently he has started his new Co in 
> Boulder but he lives in CA and last I heard of David and Linda was 
> that they live separately in Malibu but have no idea if any of this 
> is true the rumor spin zone for sure and could be created by them 
> just to get our goats. I guess when we hear from our MD and P 
> friends and HM friends we will know the real story.
> 
> 
> >   
> > Someone who lives in Boone told me tonight the local
> > rumors are that Kaplan wants to sue MMY in Holland
> > and has found a way to do it. But rather than going to
> > court, he may strike a deal...have mother divine and
> > purusha move out, settle with the home owners and thus
> > avoid courtbut he has to promise to never sue the
> > movement again. He wants to sue MUM, MIU, the movement
> > everywhere, MMY personally. This person also said
> > graduates pf the recertification course have 
> > PhDs in World Peace, and are Drs.
> > 
> > 
> > --- pibssmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Can anyone who is internet savvy find anything out
> > > in court documents 
> > > on this Heavenly Mt settlement?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > > Or go to: 
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > > and click 'Join This Group!' 
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bye bye Brits/Scorpions Need Nectar

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 5/9/05 5:39 PM, claudiouk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Rick - it's not just about one country, it's firstly the principle:
> > logically this "ban" should apply to the US, the main villain in
> > MMY's eyes, whose leader was re-elected with a larger mandate;
> > secondly it shouldn't apply to ANY country - he has gone on about
> > how "punishment" in administration is a sign of FAILURE (in this
> > case, HIS failure); also how can he justify punishing his own LOYAL
> > FOLLOWERS - children in the Maharishi school, meditators needing
> > checking etc; the fact that there aren't that many new initiations
> > presently in the UK is irrelevant - neither are there in the US; and
> > anyway to do this just at the RELAUNCH of the Movement, after
> > teachers have paid considerable sums to be recertified is not only
> > idiotic but actually unethical. I'm surprised people in FFL are
> > taking it so lightly..
> 
> Maybe we're getting jaded. Maybe the crazy announcements are coming so fast
> and furious it's hard to keep up with them.

I think there are 2 ways to look at this.  First, some people will 'Obey"  MMY 
and leave 
England.  Perhaps they think he knows something cosmic that they don't know - 
like an 
upcoming terrorist attack, or plague that will hit England.  These people are 
adults and 
make their choices and probably feel good about themselves.  Or, second,  MMY 
is not 
going to go out quietly.  He is going out with a bang, with crazy 
pronouncements, with 
outrageous requests for money, unyeilding expectations for obedience, 
disparaging 
comments about this loyal followers for all these years, condemnations of 
governments, 
outrageous stuff.  Is he senile, enlightened, or both? The irrationality kind 
of makes it easy 
to to stay disengaged from it all, doesn't it.  I just feel neutral amazement 
rather than the 
anger and disappointment I used to feel.

I say again - we are in the midst of the makings of a movie.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: New recert stuff (if anybody still cares)

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > on 5/8/05 1:35 AM, George DeForest at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > >> JohnY wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> But I can still check the meditation
> > >> of those that I have taught...
> > >> Such bullshit!
> > > 
> > > the once noble "Govenor" now lives
> > > disgraced as a lowly "checker" !!
> > 
> 
> 
> > Don't know if it was intentional, but maybe it's a good tactic. 
> Give people
> > fancy titles to puff up their egos and then deflate them again 
> later on.
> 
> ***
> 
> I think it's more a matter that there is no charge (except in London) 
> for TM checking, so recerts and the TMO don't care who checks, and in 
> fact, it's less work for the salaried teachers.

Bingo, Bob.  Of course!!!




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Uncle Tantra/Question about Baskaran Pillai / Sri Siva

[wayback71]

Where can I read your stories?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Love your stories, Barry. Just reread the one about
> > the red-headed woman in the bar putting the moves on
> > you.
> > -Peter
> 
> Wow.  I'm honestly surprised that anyone here would
> have heard of them.  Thanks...they were fun to write.
> 
> Unc




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[FairfieldLife] Re: 2 Peace Palaces planned for Vedic City

[wayback71]

What about Ben Stiller as your late 60's hippie, early 70"s initiate, 1974 TTC, 
Governor guy 
who goes thru all the movement stuff? Who would play Bevan?  John Hagelin?  
THsi couldl 
be Good, folkks.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Great analogy with Bananas!  Now, someone could make a hilarious movie about 
> the 
TMO/
> MMY kinkiness, weirdness, wildness, miracles, drama, zany pronouncements, 
> incredible 
> stories.  It could be HUGELY funny and make someone millions.  
> What the general public would not know is that it is all TRUE!!
>   In fact, this is great way to look at the whole thing, really lightens 
> up the experience.  
> It has all been funny, a big laugh, comedy all along, with a good technique 
> thrown in as 
> well.  Luaghing all the way to Awakening.  Someone here has to be able to 
> write a good 
> script for this movie.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hehehe...the madness, THE MADNESS! I love it. Not a
> > single thing for the mind to attach to. It all reminds
> > me of the Woody Alan movie, "Bananas" about a
> > revolution in a Latin American country where the
> > revolutionary leader, after overthrowing the corrupt
> > government, gives an insane speech making everyone
> > change their underwear every few hours and to make
> > sure it's done, underwear will now be worn on the
> > outside! Watching his inspired revolutionary comrades
> > struggle with their cognitive dissonance is a hoot!
> > -Peter
> > 
> > --- George DeForest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Good News on MVC Peace Palaces!
> > > - Original Message - 
> > > From: Kathy Petersen 
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 2:14 PM
> > > Subject: Good News on MVC Peace Palaces!
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dear Friends and Neighbors in Maharishi Vedic City,
> > > 
> > > We have recently completed the First Governor
> > > Recertification Course and are both feeling very
> > > honored and fortunate to have been assigned to
> > > Maharishi Vedic City for our Peace Palace city!
> > > 
> > > We have great good news to share with you regarding
> > > the Peace Palace project for Maharishi Vedic City. 
> > > Yesterday the Mayor of the city, His Highness Raja
> > > Wynne, donated the necessary land for the entire
> > > Peace Palace complex (about 9 acres).  This kind and
> > > generous action on Raja Wynne's part ensures a
> > > permanent home for all aspects of Maharishi's Vedic
> > > Knowledge in our beloved city, for ourselves and for
> > > all generations to come.
> > > 
> > > The land is located at the center of the city, just
> > > west of the Brahmasthan of the city, so that both
> > > the Men's and Ladies' Peace Palaces will face east
> > > towards the Brahmasthan and overlook that beautiful
> > > open space where Sat Yuga will descend in Maharishi
> > > Vedic City.
> > > 
> > > We will get the exact parcel of land surveyed and
> > > staked in the next few days, so that everyone knows
> > > exactly where the Peace Palaces will rise up!!
> > > 
> > > The Peace Palaces will house all of Maharishi's
> > > programs.  Both the Men's and Ladies' Peace Palaces
> > > will offer all aspects of Maharishi's Total
> > > Knowledge--the Transcendental Meditation Program,
> > > the Advanced Techniques, the TM Sidhi Program,
> > > Maharishi Vedic Vibration Technology, the Maharishi
> > > Jyotish Consultations and Yagya program (the yagyas
> > > will be performed in India), PK and M Spa
> > > treatments, MAPI products for sale, Maharishi
> > > Sthapatya Veda, yogic flying halls, Maharishi Vedic
> > > Organic restaurants, festival halls, and so forth. 
> > > Everything that we need for our personal evolution
> > > and the well being of the whole world will be
> > > available to us in the Peace Palaces!
> > > 
> > > In the perfect vastu of the Peace Palaces,
> > > Maharishi's Knowledge will be kept pure and complete
> > > for all suceeding generations of Maharishi Vedic
> > > City residents.  These beautiful marble buildings
> > > will house the full glory of the perfection of Total
> > > Knowledge which has come to us from the Holy
> > > Tradition via Maharishi.
> > > 

[FairfieldLife] Re: 2 Peace Palaces planned for Vedic City

[wayback71]

Great analogy with Bananas!  Now, someone could make a hilarious movie about 
the TMO/
MMY kinkiness, weirdness, wildness, miracles, drama, zany pronouncements, 
incredible 
stories.  It could be HUGELY funny and make someone millions.  
What the general public would not know is that it is all TRUE!!
  In fact, this is great way to look at the whole thing, really lightens up 
the experience.  
It has all been funny, a big laugh, comedy all along, with a good technique 
thrown in as 
well.  Luaghing all the way to Awakening.  Someone here has to be able to write 
a good 
script for this movie.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hehehe...the madness, THE MADNESS! I love it. Not a
> single thing for the mind to attach to. It all reminds
> me of the Woody Alan movie, "Bananas" about a
> revolution in a Latin American country where the
> revolutionary leader, after overthrowing the corrupt
> government, gives an insane speech making everyone
> change their underwear every few hours and to make
> sure it's done, underwear will now be worn on the
> outside! Watching his inspired revolutionary comrades
> struggle with their cognitive dissonance is a hoot!
> -Peter
> 
> --- George DeForest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Good News on MVC Peace Palaces!
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: Kathy Petersen 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 2:14 PM
> > Subject: Good News on MVC Peace Palaces!
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Friends and Neighbors in Maharishi Vedic City,
> > 
> > We have recently completed the First Governor
> > Recertification Course and are both feeling very
> > honored and fortunate to have been assigned to
> > Maharishi Vedic City for our Peace Palace city!
> > 
> > We have great good news to share with you regarding
> > the Peace Palace project for Maharishi Vedic City. 
> > Yesterday the Mayor of the city, His Highness Raja
> > Wynne, donated the necessary land for the entire
> > Peace Palace complex (about 9 acres).  This kind and
> > generous action on Raja Wynne's part ensures a
> > permanent home for all aspects of Maharishi's Vedic
> > Knowledge in our beloved city, for ourselves and for
> > all generations to come.
> > 
> > The land is located at the center of the city, just
> > west of the Brahmasthan of the city, so that both
> > the Men's and Ladies' Peace Palaces will face east
> > towards the Brahmasthan and overlook that beautiful
> > open space where Sat Yuga will descend in Maharishi
> > Vedic City.
> > 
> > We will get the exact parcel of land surveyed and
> > staked in the next few days, so that everyone knows
> > exactly where the Peace Palaces will rise up!!
> > 
> > The Peace Palaces will house all of Maharishi's
> > programs.  Both the Men's and Ladies' Peace Palaces
> > will offer all aspects of Maharishi's Total
> > Knowledge--the Transcendental Meditation Program,
> > the Advanced Techniques, the TM Sidhi Program,
> > Maharishi Vedic Vibration Technology, the Maharishi
> > Jyotish Consultations and Yagya program (the yagyas
> > will be performed in India), PK and M Spa
> > treatments, MAPI products for sale, Maharishi
> > Sthapatya Veda, yogic flying halls, Maharishi Vedic
> > Organic restaurants, festival halls, and so forth. 
> > Everything that we need for our personal evolution
> > and the well being of the whole world will be
> > available to us in the Peace Palaces!
> > 
> > In the perfect vastu of the Peace Palaces,
> > Maharishi's Knowledge will be kept pure and complete
> > for all suceeding generations of Maharishi Vedic
> > City residents.  These beautiful marble buildings
> > will house the full glory of the perfection of Total
> > Knowledge which has come to us from the Holy
> > Tradition via Maharishi.
> > 
> > At www.globalcountry.org you will find an overview
> > of the Peace Palaces themselves (click where it says
> > "3000 Peace Palaces").  The Peace Palaces shown on
> > the webpage are not quite the final version, but
> > will give everyone a very good idea of what is
> > planned.  In Maharishi Vedic City we will have the
> > grand configuration of a tower in the center,
> > flanked by a Men's and Ladies' Peace Palace, with
> > many annexes at the rear which will house the
> > clinics, flying halls, restaurants, etc.
> > 
> > We know that all of you will be as excited as we are
> > about this project!!  The Peace Palaces will be the
> > heart and soul of our city and of our Vedic way of
> > life which we enjoy here in Maharishi Vedic City.
> > 
> > We invite everyone to participate in raising the
> > money to build these palaces of knowledge.  We hope
> > that everyone will donate generously to the
> > project!!  Also, you may invest in the project
> > either through buying World Peace Bonds (sold to
> > "qualified investors" only), and through other
> > interest-paying loans.  The Global Country of World
> > Peace will own the Peace Palaces, so any donation
> > you make or money you lo

[FairfieldLife] Re: New recert stuff (if anybody still cares)

[wayback71]

Your "average meditator" will not care one hoot about the recent changes in the 
structure 
of the TMO as it applies to what a Governor can or can no longer do.  As long 
as they can 
hear a lecture, get instructed and get checked, their needs have been met.Only 
former 
Governors think this is a big deal.   And with a few hundred new recert 
teachers, and with 
so few people caring to learn TM, these Recerts will have plenty of time to 
teach and check 
those that need it.  In fact, since the Recerts need to initiate 2 people per 
month at full 
price, they may be very motivated.  The first $4,000 paycheck is supposed to 
arrive at the 
end of May.  Shall we guess when and if they arrive?   
 Also, has anyone heard of a mall space anywhere that has been found and 
leased for 
the Enlightenment Centers?  I hear that here on the East Coast, the rents are 
so high that 
the amount allotted by the TMO won't even get them into a tiny dump in a poorly 
trafficked, downscale location.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "George DeForest"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > .
> > 
> > > JohnY wrote:
> > > 
> > > But I can still check the meditation
> > > of those that I have taught...
> > > Such bullshit!
> > 
> > the once noble "Govenor" now lives 
> > disgraced as a lowly "checker" !!
> > 
> > aint Sat Yuga grand?!
> 
> tongue in cheek ;)  ?... Nothing lowly about checking but it does put
> some of the 'wierdness' up front for the meditators to see. Meditators
> with a 'public' life will be running for cover
> 
> JohnY




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[FairfieldLife] Re: TM/mortality -- Journal of Cardiology

[wayback71]

Uh, these results, if true, are incredible.  I would think that this research 
would cause a 
huge wave of people to learn TM, regardless of the crowns, robes and price.  
$2500 is 
peanuts if you can live a lot longer and reduce your chance of dying of cancer  
etc.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://161.58.228.161/TM_and_mortality.pdf
> 
> summary of results:
> 
> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-05/muom-tme042205.php




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Indian farmers use Coca-Cola as pesticide

[wayback71]

This article is hilarious.  I laughed out loud throughout. Is it Coke that will 
dissolve a metal 
nail that soaks in it for a day?  Anyway, thanks for posting it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Pall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.organicconsumers.org/toxic/pop.cfm
> 
> Things "Grow Better" With Coke (as pesticide)
> 
> John Vidal
> Preventive Psychiatry E-Newsletter # 189
> Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005
> 
> Indian farmers have come up with what they think is the real thing to
> keep crops free of bugs.
> 
> Instead of paying hefty fees to international chemical companies for
> patented pesticides, they are reportedly spraying their cotton and
> chili fields with Coca-Cola.
> 
> In the past month there have been reports of hundreds of farmers turning
> to Coke in Andhra Pradesh and Chattisgarh states.
> 
> But as word gets out that soft drinks may be bad for bugs and a lot
> cheaper than anything that Messrs Monsanto, Shell and Dow can offer,
> thousands of others are expected to switch.
> 
> Gotu Laxmaiah, a farmer from Ramakrishnapuram in Andra Pradesh, said he
> was delighted with his new cola spray, which he applied this year to
> several hectares of cotton. "I observed that the pests began to die
> after the soft drink was sprayed on my cotton," he told the Deccan
> Herald newspaper.
> 
> Coca-Cola has had a bad year in India.
> 
> Other farmers in Andra Pradesh state accused the company of
> over-extracting underground water for its bottling plants and a
> government committee upheld findings that drinks made in India by itself
> and PepsiCo contained unacceptable amounts of pesticide residue.
> 
> But Mr. Laxmaiah and others say their cola sprays are invaluable because
> they are safe to handle, do not need to be diluted and, mainly, are cheap.
> 
> One litre of highly concentrated Avant, Tracer and Nuvocron, three
> popular Indian pesticides, costs around 10,000 rupees (£120), but
> one-and-a-half litres of locally made Coca-Cola is 30 rupees. To spray
> an acre would be a mere 270 rupees.
> 
> It is clearly not Coke's legendary "secret" ingredient that is upsetting
> the bugs. The farmers also swear by Pepsi, Thums Up, and other local
> soft drinks.
> 
> The main ingredients of all colas are water and sugar but some
> manufacturers add citric and phosphoric acids to give that extra bite to
> human taste buds.
> 
> Yesterday a leading Indian agriculture analyst, Devinder Sharma, said:
> "I think Coke has found its right use. Farmers have traditionally used
> sugary solutions to attract red ants to feed on insect larvae.
> 
> "I think the colas are also performing the same role."
> 
> The properties of Coke have been discussed for years. It has been
> reported that it is a fine lavatory cleaner, a good windscreen wipe and
> an efficient rust spot remover.
> 
> Uncorroborated reports from China claimed that the ill-fated New Coke
> was widely used in China as a spermicide.
> 
> Yesterday a spokesman for Coca-Cola in Atlanta said: "We are aware of
> one isolated case where a farmer may have used a soft drink as part of
> his crop management routine.
> 
> "Soft drinks do not act in a similar way to pesticides when applied to
> the ground or crops. There is no scientific basis for this and the use
> of soft drinks for this purpose would be totally ineffective".
> 
> Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005




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[FairfieldLife] Re: still no clue about Maharishi

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> > so basically MMY knows everything" and whatever objection / 
> > criticism is kali yuga.  did I get right? :)

> BobBrigantewrote:> 
> You're doing OK, so far. I might point out that I am not saying that 
> MMY is infallible in terms of tactics, but the strategy of Nature 
> (which MMY elucidated in his booklet "The Divine Plan" see 
> http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light ) is correct: 
> enlightenment in the Kaliyuga can only proceed slowly, or the people 
> living in darkness will freak out (a response well documented in 
> history, Jesus being just one example of a rejection of the light by 
> an ignorant world). Now that a few people in the West are TM candles 
> (enough to reduce the shock of a revived Vedic culture), the revival 
> of Vedic culture in India can take off http://www.vedicpandits.org/ 
> and it does not matter what happens in the West, the crowns and the 
> clown suits, the doomed-to-failure mall stores, etc., because a Vedic 
> India will illuminate the whole world, like it or not.
> 
> Bob Brigante

Bob, 

exactly which people do you consider to be the real "TM candles" here in the 
west?  The 
folks who went to the recert course and are "obeying" MMY's instructions and 
trying to 
open mall stores?  The people who have drifted away disenchanted with the TMO 
mo?  You 
yourself?  What leads you to believe that there are enough of these "candles" 
at this time?
I, too, want a Vedic India that illuminates the whole world, but you seem so 
absolutely certain of your beliefs.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: still no clue about marketing TM...

[wayback71]

--
:
> > on 4/29/05 1:02 AM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > This makes no sense at all -- if a responsible TM manager had 
> refused
> > > to allow MMY to show up at that Beach Boys concert, that fiasco 
> could
> > > have been avoided, just as his driver in HNL kept MMY from 
> sleeping
> > > in the SF airport.
> > 
> 
> Rick Archer wrote:
> > No one tells Maharishi what he can or can't do. He's the boss.
> 
>
Bob Brigante wrote:
 
> I am realizing that it really does not matter that the TMO is
> flunking out in the West. In fact, this was the strategy all along,
> inspired not by any ordinary human analysis of what would work for
> the TMO in the West or not, but a strategy guided by Divine
> intelligence.
> 
> The real reason that MMY came to the West was to delay the onset of
> enlightenment so that a Vedic India would not be too much of a shock
> for the world: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/comp.html#30
> 
> If MMY had stayed in India without lighting a few candles around the
> world, the onset of a Vedic India would have created havoc in
> material life around the world.
> 
> The TMO will be wildly successful in a few years in India; everything
> that is happening now in the West, the crowns and titles and all
> that, is just designed to hold a shell of an organization in place
> until TM is successful in India. After Deepak Chopra left the TM
> movement, MMY was determined not to let this sort of defection happen
> again if possible, so he loads up the inadequate personalities who
> manage the TM movement with fancy clothes and titles so that they,
> let a child at his birthday party, will feel the glow of attention
> and stick around in the movement.
> 
> 
> Bob Brigante
> http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html

Bob, I can say that you are one creative devotee. A more inventive mind I 
cannot imagine.  
No event, no information, nothing will ever shake your convictions.  Still, a 
person can feel 
uncomfortable with  MMY's ideas and behavior, and still adore him, you know. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The report we've been waiting for

[wayback71]

Hey, the reality is that the new recertified TM teachers are a sales, real 
estate, fund raising, 
marketing force.  I am over 50 now, so I am having a bit of trouble fully 
getting the  
connection between world peace and strip mall outlets selling honey, $170 per 
hour 
massages, and sleeping pills.  Other important concerns:  Are the crowns made 
of real 
gold?  Do you have to buy your own crown once you are rajafied, or does the TMO 
give you 
one for FREE?  Can you sell your crown if you need the money, or did you sign 
away that 
right when you attended the RAJA course?  An inquiring mind wants to know.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is way more bizarre than I expected, and has a nasty feel to it all.  
> Amazing what 
> people will do for an experience, to belong, to keep their belief system 
> intact, out of 
> devotion, I guess.  I look forward to seeing how the public handles seeing 
> rajas in full 
garb 
> walking around the streets of Manhattan!!  The drama of the intersection of 
> Kali Yuga 
with 
> spiritual tradition is mind blowing.  Guru Dev, where are you?
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From a friend:
> > 
> > Hi Rick,
> > 
> > Received this by email this morning. The originating
> > source is said to be "a core movement person who has
> > done alot on the government level to get funding for
> > people to learn TM...one of the few out there
> > actually teaching." 
> > 
> > 
> > ***
> > 
> > "When we arrived in Vedic City off MUM campus we
> > were immediately asked to sign several documents
> > swearing allegiance to the new platform and it's
> > policies.  We were housed in the pundits newly
> > constructed headquarters.  Over 100 MUM faculty and 20
> > governors took the 15 day course.
> > 
> > It was hell.  Teachers were being told daily that they
> > must adjust to the changing operating principle
> > explained by Maharishi in live broadcasts.  At the
> > beginning of each day, after 3.5 hours of morning
> > rounds (and 3.5 each evening), we had to  stand up and
> > greet the robed and crowned rajas who arrived in
> > stretch limos.  They conducted the course and included
> > faculty members the Dillbecks, Rogers Badget and his
> > wife and a businessman Raja Dean (not a governor but a
> > graduate of the millionaires course in Vlodrop). 
> > Maharishi chastised the governors dail;y and
> > consistently for the past level of non-cooperation. 
> > He was clear and forceful to say the least.  I felt at
> > times that he actually took pleasure in making the
> > course  participants uncomfortable.  After the first
> > five days everyone on the course that I spoke to
> > wanted to leave, everyone.  The long term full-timer
> > national staff were the first to accept it.
> > 
> > We were told that prior to the course 2400 bank
> > accounts were set up to deposit funds throughout the
> > country. Grads of this course were told that 4-5 days
> > after completion they must find rental space, 3000 sq
> > ft, in 1. shopping malls, or 2. retail office space or
> > 3. hotels and hire and train 9 full-time employees to
> > work in the new Maharishi Enlightenment Center.  Four
> > of the employees would be licensed massage therapists,
> > 2 men, 2 women and would be trained in a 2 day, not 2
> > week course, to work a minimum 30 hrs per week @
> > approx $15 an hour.  Each would be also required to
> > take TM instruction at the $2500 fee.  The other 5
> > employees would include 2 full time sales people for
> > Sthapatya ved construction, 1 to run the day spa and
> > organize courses (TM, Jyotish, Yagyas, MAPI sales,
> > etc.) and  the other 2 were not clearly defined.  In
> > total there would be 55 services offered, 20 of which
> > would be ayurvedic.  One hour abyanga treatment would
> > cost $170 and be administered by 1 tech.  Maharishi
> > made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that the  goal
> > was to make a large amount of money that is  needed to
> > fund the project for world peace.
> > 
> > Once the spa palace is set up each director would then
> > go to another nearby location and set up the same
> > thing until 5 spas are up and  running.  For their
> > salarys, teachers would be required to instruct 2
> > people a month at the full fee of $2500 and raise $3
> > million for the peace palace, $1.5 down and 1.5 in
> > bank loans would be sufficient.
> > 
> > Teachers would

[FairfieldLife] Re: The report we've been waiting for

[wayback71]

This is way more bizarre than I expected, and has a nasty feel to it all.  
Amazing what 
people will do for an experience, to belong, to keep their belief system 
intact, out of 
devotion, I guess.  I look forward to seeing how the public handles seeing 
rajas in full garb 
walking around the streets of Manhattan!!  The drama of the intersection of 
Kali Yuga with 
spiritual tradition is mind blowing.  Guru Dev, where are you?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From a friend:
> 
> Hi Rick,
> 
> Received this by email this morning. The originating
> source is said to be "a core movement person who has
> done alot on the government level to get funding for
> people to learn TM...one of the few out there
> actually teaching." 
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> "When we arrived in Vedic City off MUM campus we
> were immediately asked to sign several documents
> swearing allegiance to the new platform and it's
> policies.  We were housed in the pundits newly
> constructed headquarters.  Over 100 MUM faculty and 20
> governors took the 15 day course.
> 
> It was hell.  Teachers were being told daily that they
> must adjust to the changing operating principle
> explained by Maharishi in live broadcasts.  At the
> beginning of each day, after 3.5 hours of morning
> rounds (and 3.5 each evening), we had to  stand up and
> greet the robed and crowned rajas who arrived in
> stretch limos.  They conducted the course and included
> faculty members the Dillbecks, Rogers Badget and his
> wife and a businessman Raja Dean (not a governor but a
> graduate of the millionaires course in Vlodrop). 
> Maharishi chastised the governors dail;y and
> consistently for the past level of non-cooperation. 
> He was clear and forceful to say the least.  I felt at
> times that he actually took pleasure in making the
> course  participants uncomfortable.  After the first
> five days everyone on the course that I spoke to
> wanted to leave, everyone.  The long term full-timer
> national staff were the first to accept it.
> 
> We were told that prior to the course 2400 bank
> accounts were set up to deposit funds throughout the
> country. Grads of this course were told that 4-5 days
> after completion they must find rental space, 3000 sq
> ft, in 1. shopping malls, or 2. retail office space or
> 3. hotels and hire and train 9 full-time employees to
> work in the new Maharishi Enlightenment Center.  Four
> of the employees would be licensed massage therapists,
> 2 men, 2 women and would be trained in a 2 day, not 2
> week course, to work a minimum 30 hrs per week @
> approx $15 an hour.  Each would be also required to
> take TM instruction at the $2500 fee.  The other 5
> employees would include 2 full time sales people for
> Sthapatya ved construction, 1 to run the day spa and
> organize courses (TM, Jyotish, Yagyas, MAPI sales,
> etc.) and  the other 2 were not clearly defined.  In
> total there would be 55 services offered, 20 of which
> would be ayurvedic.  One hour abyanga treatment would
> cost $170 and be administered by 1 tech.  Maharishi
> made it clear, in no uncertain terms, that the  goal
> was to make a large amount of money that is  needed to
> fund the project for world peace.
> 
> Once the spa palace is set up each director would then
> go to another nearby location and set up the same
> thing until 5 spas are up and  running.  For their
> salarys, teachers would be required to instruct 2
> people a month at the full fee of $2500 and raise $3
> million for the peace palace, $1.5 down and 1.5 in
> bank loans would be sufficient.
> 
> Teachers would not be able to check, lecture or
> instruct members of the opposite sex.  If necessary,
> teachers would be required to
> commute whatever distance to accommodate this
> requirement.  And once again, the minimum daily
> rounding schedule would be 3.5 hours in the AM and
> 3.5 hours in the PM. Once completed, directors would
> be invited to one month of Raja training in Vlodrop
> and would learn how to command the laws of nature. 
> Each would be returning to live in their newly
> constructed peace palace.  Rajas would be required to
> wear crowns and robes  in their new positions as
> rajas.  There is no teaching part time and no teaching
> permitted by teachers who have not completed
> recertification courses."





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[FairfieldLife] Re: still no clue about Maharishi

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > on 4/27/05 7:28 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >> My friend Charlie Gleuck (Dr. Gleuck's son) went to the Hartford
> > > > concert. He
> > > >> said it was agonizing. Maharishi opened for the Beach Boys and 
> > the
> > > > kids
> > > >> hissed and booed and talked to one another while Maharishi tried 
> > to
> > > > lecture.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > Typical knuckleheaded play by TM mgmt -- let's give a TM lecture 
> > at a
> > > > rock concert, making kids wait for their tunes! And, from these 
> > same
> > > > marketing geniuses, the mall store coming to your location soon! 
> > (or
> > > > later, maybe, which is what "soon" means in movement-speak).
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Uh, Bob. Same old discussion we always have. The knucklehead you're
> > > referring to is Maharishi. His idea to do the tour. I'm sure he 
> > would have
> > > preferred to open for the Beatles, but the Beach Boys had to do.
> > 
> > ***
> > 
> > If you don't remind rehashing this, providing proper guidance for MMY 
> > is the job of TM management, not letting a goofy guy like Mike Love 
> > put him in a ridiculous situation which anybody in this culture with 
> > any sense (and this does include most rock musicians, whether they TM 
> > or not) would know could not work. As far as MMY initiating this 
> > idea, you can make that claim, but it's just nonsense -- this was 
> > Mike Love's idea, and no TM managers stepped forward to kill this 
> > doomed notion.
> > 
> > MMY does let people tell him what to do if they are forceful -- an 
> > example of this being MMY at the Honolulu airport in 1959, when his 
> > driver grabbed his carpetbag out of his hand and took him home when 
> > MMY admitted he had made no arrangements for his trip to San 
> > Francisco:
> > 
> > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/letter.html#HNL
> > 
> > I know Mike Love has been a long-time ru -- his room was down the 
> > hall from mine at the Humboldt TTC in August 1970 -- but before he 
> > attended Humboldt, he ended up in a psych ward for a while after he 
> > spaced out from a marathon meditation session (a scene depicted in 
> > the 2000 ABC movie about the Beach Boys 
> > http://movies.msn.com/movies/movie.aspx?m=31330 ), and Mike Love and 
> > TM mgmt enthusiasm is no substitute for good judgement, and the bad 
> > judgement of letting MMY on that stage at a rock concert pretty much 
> > typifies the malfeasance of TM mgmt which continues to this day, and 
> > MMY can't be blamed for that. He's a Hindu monk who does not know how 
> > to operate in Western culture, and he said so when left India:
> > 
> > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/comp.html#30
> > 
> > TM managers are goofy, because the TM community is goofy, and so they 
> > need to do reality checks with responsible and creative people 
> > outside the movement who like to solve problems -- these people are 
> > called consultants, and there many fine firms that do this type of 
> > work -- one of the most prominent is Booz Allen Hamilton 
> > http://www.boozallen.com/ , and if the TMO were to sit down with 
> > these consultants, they could come up a business plan that works, and 
> > not a fantasy based on the enthusiasm of eccentric people.
> 
> Bob-zoid,
> 
> A point that I don't recall ever having been
> made in rebuttal to your worldview is that
> you keep coming back to the present tense
> you use when mentioning that Maharishi's
> a monk, unfamiliar with the ways of the world
> and the West. Obviously that was true fifty
> years ago, but don't you think that he's had
> plenty of time to learn the basics of how
> ordinary Western people think and behave?
> 
> How long can a man remain utterly naive
> and innocent about the ways of the world?
> After all, he's extremely intelligent and about
> the quickest study around.
> 
> He's been on how many world tours, after all?
> As a famous old man, and a leader of a worldwide
> organization, he's met and talked with more
> people than everyone on FFL combined.
> 
> As for Booz Allen Hamilton, many people, including
> David Kaplan, have tried to convince Maharishi 
> to hire this or that American consulting firm,
> particularly w/r/t branding and marketing.
> Maharishi rejects the preliminary plans each time.
> I heard from a Purusha many years back about
> a tirade he went into when talking about conducting
> the Movement according to accepted business
> principles, saying that the world is based on 
> such principles and look at what a mess it
> is. He is convinced that "Maharishi Master
> Management," whatever specifically that means
> to him, is superior knowledge to anything 
> these firms have say.

Also, Bob - I think your next stat

[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Samyama won't lead to CC; was Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita

[wayback71]

My experiences are like yours: nothing in terms of powers.  sometimes energy up 
the 
spine during "hopping" and usually a feeling of inner silence, quiet and of 
being cleansed 
after the whole thing.  Mostly profound silence.  Like I feel after doing an 
hour and a half 
of yoga, only the siddhis feel less physical.

I think we have to distinguish between the dangers of feeling good from a 
spiritiual 
practice, and the dangers of feeling good from other life experiences. Also, Is 
feeling good 
dangerous becauseyou get attached?  Or is it a lure toward joy, from which it 
is might be 
easier to make the leap to pure consciousness?  Does n't joy chagne the 
physiology so that 
the leap is easier?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> Setting aside the texts for a moment, what are 
> peoples' experiences with the TM-Siddhi 
> program? It seems whacky to debate a text, 
> however learned, when we have such a large 
> cohort of people who've practiced the techniques 
> for decades. I'm thinking we could evaluate them 
> for ourselves, based on our own knowledge.
> 
> For myself, I can't confess to any powers from 
> the siddhis, other than the hopping stuff, but 
> they do seem to do just what I was told they'd 
> do: solidify the presence of silent consciousness.
> 
> What are other people getting?
> 
>  - Patrick Gillam
> 
> > On Apr 20, 2005, at 8:18 AM, wayback71 wrote:
> > 
> > > What do the Shankaracharyas say?  Who is
> > > Vidyaranya?
> > 
> > Vaj wrote:
> >
> > Vidyaranya was one of the most eminent Shankaracharyas. He was the 12th 
> > jagadguru of the Sringiri seat. His text on the attainment of Cosmic 
> > Consciousness is still the standard among yogis today. That's why is it 
> > so significant on what he says of the siddhis and samyama--if you are 
> > interested in enlightenment that is.
> > 
> > > Is it possible that the siddhis are really about making the relative, 
> > > subjective aspect of the
> > > individual a better, kinder and more skilled human being  - so that 
> > > when they do reach
> > > CC, they aren't a nasty, unpleasant, unkind Enlightened person?
> > 
> > Vaj wrote:
> >
> > Vidyaranya would disagree. You would more likely become either 
> > egocentric or a collector of subtle experiences. These experiences 
> > would come and go and not lead to a permanent state of higher 
> > consciousness.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Why Samyama won't lead to CC; was Real Advaita, Pseudo-Advaita

[wayback71]

-> On Apr 19, 2005, at 11:21 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
> 
> > Some people have subjective experiences
> > with them, of course, but nothing verifiable. If they aren't working, 
> > how
> > can they be blocking CC?


>Vaj wrote: 
> According to Vidyaranya, they are a major source of ego-mania. If they 
> are having subjective experience, it sounds like they are because that 
> is what they are supposed to do.

Is it possible that the siddhis are really about making the relative, 
subjective aspect of the 
individual a better, kinder and more skilled human being  - so that when they 
do reach 
CC, they aren't a nasty, unpleasant, unkind Enlightened person? And that doing 
a siddhi 
practice along with a technique for enlightenment covers all the bases? Have 
Amma or Sri 
Sri Ravi Shankar ever commented on the siddhis?  Aside from Muktananda's 
students, do 
any other groups teach the siddhis?  What do the Shankaracharyas say?  Who is 
Vidyaranya?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Photo proof positive of Pundit project.

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "easyone200" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > What is the possibility that you created this experience for 
> yourself due to your 
> > overwhelming desire or expectation. M is a con man at least 99.99% 
> of the time, let's just 
> > make that 100% and give yourself credit for your own good 
> experiences. Ditto for the rest 
> > of these guru con artists.
> 
> On the one hand, you are absolutely right; it is all Self 
> appreciating Self. On the other hand, it is not the work of the ego, 
> which was knocked flat on its petulant ass, stretched kicking and 
> screaming between absolute bliss and absolute suffering 
> simultaneously. In fact, the action of Self flooding into Self 
> EXPOSED the ego for the petulant ass it was.
> 
> Thanks for asking this, as it brings up another point. The longer I 
> have lived and the better I have gotten to know myself, the more I 
> realize MMY is just a particularly stupendous mirror. Everything I 
> have ever judged in him, I have later come to see in myself. As I 
> have come to recognize and acknowledge those evils in myself, 
> they "disappear" and MMY (or the World or whatever) smiles that much 
> brighter.
> 
> Case in point: One of MMY's big flaws IMO has always been his 
> disgusting tendency to fawn over the rich and famous. So what 
> happens? Last night I see Janis Ian and to anyone's outward eyes, I 
> am fawning over the rich and famous. But now I understand what's 
> going on from the inside: from my point of view, everyone (and 
> everything) is exactly the same, EXCEPT -- by virtue of how much 
> appreciation they are willing to take from "this" me. I am pouring 
> Love and Soma on and into Janis Ian simply because she will TAKE IT 
> ALL -- the more I pour on, the brighter and happier we get, and she 
> turns right around and pours it into her music and gives it right 
> back to thousands of people. See? She is EFFICIENT --- a) she will 
> transpersonally TAKE the energy (instead of saying "gag me," for 
> example) and b) she is naturally (at this moment anyhow) Group-
> conscious, and in a position to USE that energy for countless others 
> of Us. A bargain!
> 
For me, this is an interesting idea.  Has me thinking in a different way about 
the struggle 
to integrate the opposing aspects of MMY's behavior.  It is not hard to see 
peers, friends 
and family in shades of gray - that they can be wonderful in some ways, average 
in some 
aspects, and have significant faults in other ways.  Still, we love them. But 
gurus and 
enlightened people were supposed to be perfect, or so we once thought.  So, I 
guess you 
are saying that what we perceive as "faults" in gurus is really something else 
going on, 
something useful for ourselves and for others.  This is what true believers 
always use to 
justify  immoral or unpleasant behavior on the guru's part. (I am not calling 
you a true 
believer, btw.) I think until I myself have the perception to see as you do, it 
is best to go 
with some sort of balance between mind, heart and gut feelings. Keeps it simple 
and real, 
and encourages compassion and basic kindness in all of us.  We can all stretch 
our 
understanding of what we perceive to an extent, but it is dangerous to keep 
doubting and 
second guessing our own perceptions and feelings beyond a certain point. I know 
you are 
not advocating that, - in fact you just had your own very real experience.  
Sounds as if the 
entire evening was terrific on every level.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: OK, here's the poop

[wayback71]

If this new marketing plan even has more than a 2 month life span, having MMY 
pay for 
everything is the ONLY way this has any chance of working, because the teachers 
won't 
have anywhere near the money required to lease mall space.  It sounds to me as 
if they are 
copying the Aveda cosmetics shops, which I believe have been fairly successful. 
 ONly the 
TMO wants our TM stores to be higher end than Aveda products.  That is the key 
issue 
here - will our ultra expensive stuff find a market in the malls, or fail as 
did Tm at $2500/
person.  Putting anything to sell in a mall with that great exposure is not a 
bad idea.  I 
wonder if MMY has decided to spend a bunch of the money in his bank accounts on 
a last 
ditch effort to create a resurrgence of interest, to leave a lasting impression 
before he 
goes.  What a contrast:  they now say the dignity of the profession of teaching 
TM requires 
only full-time people (there is some truth to the idea that it seems more 
trustworthy and 
significant to learn to meditate from someone dedicated to it full-time) and 
yet it will be 
available in malls right alongside Old Navy stores  or Bloomingdale's and the 
TMO's  own 
cosmetics, herbs and honey.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> snip
> 
>   AND GET THIS.  MAHARISHI WILL BE PAYING
> > FOR EVERYTHING.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the critical words. Let's just see how this part looks after a few 
> months.
> 
> L B S





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY Vedic Honey (price of)

[wayback71]

> 
> On Apr 7, 2005, at 9:06 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:
> 
> > Regardless of what Himalaya honey says to you, I would not buy any
> > honey that was not clearly labeled "raw" or unheated, but you can buy
> > any honey you want until the Global Country takes over and forces you
> > to buy the expensive spread.

Vaj wrote: 
> Why do I get the feeling I am listening to someone from a TMO 
> Milgram-style experiment?

Could be a Stanley Milgram thing, but my take is that Bob is flexing his humor 
muscle 
again when he writes "but you can buy any honey you want until the Global 
Country takes 
over etc etc."  At least I hope he is being funny...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Final Vibhuti?

[wayback71]

RJ, this was beautifully expressed. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "rudra_joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maharishi, in cutting your former TM Teachers free, would you care to grant 
> them some 
final vibhuti or mahavakya so that they might remember you in their hearts? I 
fear that you 
have formed your own million splinter groups through your blazing maya. Is 
there any 
chance that you might clarify your position on your total work for the lowly 
who at first 
supported you, and upon whom and beside whom you walked? Besides all the 
political 
junk which gets very old. Please, something essential and simple, like the old 
days.  Thank 
You - God Bless You With Rainbows Maharishi!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY Vedic Honey (price of)

[wayback71]

Thanks, I will do so.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Apr 7, 2005, at 7:09 PM, wayback71 wrote:
> 
> > Vaj, I would not eat anything from India that had not been cooked or 
> > else certified clean
> > and heavy metal and parasite free.  Unlesss I knew the manufacturer to 
> > be really reliable.
> 
> I would then recommend reading about Himalayas' R&D, product assurance, 
> testing, etc. Unlike most Indian companies, this company is German 
> owned and has been around a long, time.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Case #001

[wayback71]

Probably what you suggest...but since some paralysis is involved I would 
also consider 
seeing a neurologist to rule out one of the many types of minor seizure 
disorders, etc.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> I recall similar experiences when I learned the flying stuff, and 
> there were lots of 'involutary' vocalizations too. It is just 
> untwisting of the nervous system. I'll occasionally get a jerking 
> sensation these days during meditation or when lying down quietly 
> too.
> 
> The thing this fellow should know is that this is completely 
> controllable, and by controlling himself in public or in situations 
> where it isn't desirable to be jerking about, he will do just fine. 
> 
> I think when this first happens, since we are told when we learn TM 
> to 'take it easy, take it as it comes' that everything should be 
> allowed in the moment. Common sense is still in effect. He won't 
> harm the speed of his evolution by controlling these spasms or 
> whatever they are during normal waking activity. Then he can thrash 
> around to his heart's content during program time.
> 
> He may want to take a little longer lying down after TM- minimum 
> five minutes, and as long as he needs. A lot of that jerky stuff can 
> be smoothly resolved during that time.
> 
> Hope that helps, 
> 
> Jim
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Dear Frasier and everyone else,
> > 
> > Request for diagnosis and suggested therapy (if needed) for the
> > following case:
> > 
> > Male aged 30. Since a few years back a regular practitioner of TM, 
> has
> > a few AT. Reasonably fit for his age.
> > 
> > Recently the subject finds his body arrested by involontary
> > convulsions (the impulse, the start, is involontary, but the 
> subject
> > claims he can shut it off by will). It currently happens a couple 
> of
> > times per day and can occur during any activity (driving a car,
> > watching the TV, reading, walking, when about to sleep, etc).
> > 
> > Accompanying the phenomenon is the claimed experience of the 
> subjects
> > 'being' (subjects choice of word) being 'drained from,' or 'pulled 
> out
> > of' or 'poured out from,' the physical body/nervous system. 
> > 
> > On one or two few occasions the phenomenon has included physical
> > paralysis (inability to move limbs etc).
> > 
> > The subject does not appear too concerned, being a TM-practitioner 
> he
> > believes it related to the process of continual purification and
> > refinement of his nervous system.
> > 
> > May the best shrink/Guru win!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY Vedic Honey (price of)

[wayback71]

Vaj, the Maharishi Vedic Honey says on the package that it is not heated, as 
per Vedic 
standards.  It also notes that this honey is "produced with special attention 
to direction, 
plantary influence of the sun, moon, and stars, and purity of environment thru 
each phase 
of production - and its quality is enhanced thru Vedic Sound. " All sounds 
good, but I am 
still waiting for Mother Divine to appear to me, and I guess the honey does not 
do that!

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Apr 7, 2005, at 6:53 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:
> 
> > If the Himalaya honey folks you cite were not heating it improperly,
> > they would have called it "raw", as USDA labelling regs require.
> 
> Yeah well it's not packaged here Bob. They refer to it as "virgin". 
> Like I said, it's well known your should not heat honey beyond a 
> certain point in Ayurveda. It is traditional. And this is prepared by 
> traditional methods. The TM people love to tout every miniscule 
> property of their products so they can justify their overpricing 
> scheme. It's more spin.
> 
> If you're so worried, I would write them. They responded quickly to all 
> my enquiries.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY Vedic Honey (price of)

[wayback71]

The MMY Vedic Honey that I received says in small print on the side of the jar  
and the 
boxes "Product of Brazil."  Do we have a Vedic Honey facility down there? It 
tastes okay - 
with a slight lemony aftertaste.  It is a tad granular -not as smooth as 
commercial honey.  I 
don't think it enlightened me, at least not yet!  But who knows?  Maybe that 
blast of light t 
hat raced up my spine and out my head a few minutes ago was due to the honey!  
The $10 
jar is almost empty since it contains enough for about 4 skimpy spoonfuls. The 
really 
interesting part of all this is that the $40 size jar (which I also ordered if 
you can imagine 
that) has a box with a front that swings open.  When you swing open the front 
flap a song 
plays from a plastic insert.  The song has women singing about Maharishi Vedic 
Honey in a 
reptitive jingle that lasts about 60 seconds.  The mailing package I received 
this in had 
been ripped open and one of the boxes disabled and torn apart - probably by a 
Fex Ex 
delivery guy who got so irritated by the song that had been triggered by 
jostling in the 
mail.

Vaj, I would not eat anything from India that had not been cooked or else 
certified clean 
and heavy metal and parasite free.  Unlesss I knew the manufacturer to be 
really reliable.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Apr 7, 2005, at 6:39 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:
> 
> > This Himalaya honey does not claim to be raw, which is important by
> > Ayurveda standards, as heated honey is said to contain toxins. The USDA
> > requires that honey labelled "raw" not be heated to high temps. The
> > reason why honey producers heat their honey to high temps is so they
> > can fill containers faster and also heated honey does not crystallize
> > like raw honey does.
> 
> No good Ayurvedic manufacturer would heat it improperly, as this 
> produces cyanogens.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: MMY Vedic Honey (price of)

[wayback71]

I just received some Maharishi Vedic Honey from MAPI that I had ordered. 
Thought I would 
be bold and try some.  I ordered a $10 "jar"  of this and the jar is so small 
it holds no more 
than 4 tablespoons of honey for $10 Tiny little jar. No exaggeration. 
Beware.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Paul Mason, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Guru Dev, TM & The TMO

[wayback71]

> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > :
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > > on 4/6/05 7:16 AM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > I completely agree. What I was exploring in that larger 
> message 
> > > was a
> > > > > logical link between Guru Dev's desire to enlighten the Earth 
> and 
> > > His
> > > > > selection of MMY to do so.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > > Did Guru Dev have a desire to enlighten the earth, and did he 
> > > select MMY to
> > > > do it?
> > > 
> > > **
> > Bob Brigante wrote: 
> > > There was no reason for Guru Dev to abandon his life of bliss in 
> the 
> > > forest unless it was his intention to give householders of the 
> world 
> > > the opportunity to enjoy that bliss, too.
> > 
> 
> 
> > Bob, you must be joking around again!  How do you know that this is 
> the  ONLY reason 
> > Guru Dev would leave the forest?   He might have had a few other 
> reasons to decide to 
> > become Shankaracharya. 
> >
> 
> 
> Oh, come on, he liked the incense and the public acclaim? It's 
> ridiculous, he had avoided contact with people just as much as 
> possible for many years (the little book about his life reminds us 
> that for a sage, "solitude is the only blessedness" 
> http://www.kevincarmody.com/vedic/brahmananda.html ), refusing to 
> take the post as Shankaracharya until Maharishi came of age, and was 
> available as his disciple. 
> 
> It could not have been his mission to speak out a lot of Vedic wisdom 
> like the founder of his order of monks, Shankara, because Guru Dev 
> spoke very little. His sole mission was to create an emissary to 
> enlighten the householder world. It was unnecessary for Guru Dev to 
> say much of anything -- there is already a ton of Vedic literature, 
> by Shankara, Vasistha, Vyasa and the other sages -- the need of the 
> times was to make available a simple mechanical means of raising 
> one's consciousness without moving into a cave like Guru Dev did 
> (Vedic knowledge without expanded awareness is like having a map 
> without a light, it simply can't be understood), and that's exactly 
> what MMY did to pay his gurudakshina (preceptor's fee) to Guru Dev.
> 
> Bob 
> http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html

I'm speechless.  All I can say in response is that you are an unwavering 
devotee with your 
own unique style of thinking (and I am glad it includes humor).





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Paul Mason, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Guru Dev, TM & The TMO

[wayback71]

:
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > on 4/6/05 7:16 AM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > 
> > > I completely agree. What I was exploring in that larger message 
> was a
> > > logical link between Guru Dev's desire to enlighten the Earth and 
> His
> > > selection of MMY to do so.
> > 
> 
> > Did Guru Dev have a desire to enlighten the earth, and did he 
> select MMY to
> > do it?
> 
> **
Bob Brigante wrote: 
> There was no reason for Guru Dev to abandon his life of bliss in the 
> forest unless it was his intention to give householders of the world 
> the opportunity to enjoy that bliss, too.

Bob, you must be joking around again!  How do you know that this is the  ONLY 
reason 
Guru Dev would leave the forest?   He might have had a few other reasons to 
decide to 
become Shankaracharya. 

 
> very receptive disciple who had a Western education and spoke 
> English: Maharishi.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: full-time teacher of TM

[wayback71]

The emails from the local rajas in my area suggested that 1.  only people who 
committed 
to full time teaching could go on the recert course  2.  you would choose or be 
assigned 
an area in which to work to teach and build a peace palace  3.  salary of 
$4,ooo per month 
begins when you complete the course, get your certificate, and arrive in your 
peace palace 
area  4.  The exact nature of the job was not clear, but generally you are to 
meditate 3 
hours each morning, 3 hours each afternoon, and do 6 hours of "work" in 
between.  This 
work involves teaching, checking, scouting for land and space in malls for a 
Peace palace 
and lots of fund raising to build your $3million palace.  5.  The immediate 
goal is to raise 
$1.5 million asap and then you are allowed to go to a raja training course and 
return to 
your new palace wearing a raja crown.  I don't know if you have to pay for raja 
training, or 
if you take $1million of the $1.5 mil you just raised for the palace and send 
intot the TMO 
for your course fee. If you are into this, seems like the smart thing to do is 
to select a very 
wealthy area as your peace palace area so you can quickly raise the expected 
money from 
the loac people and get your crown.  What you do once you become a raja of your 
palace, I 
do not know.

Of course, no one dared to ask just how long to expect a regular salary, if 
there is a 
limited amount of time that you are allowd to work before your salary is cut 
off if you don't 
raise the $, or if there are benefits attached, or if - and here is a creative 
idea - a portion 
of that salary will be donated back to the org.  for you before you see it.  I 
see it as 
training a bunch of people to go out and do fund raising, to buy and build real 
estate in 
the TMO's name, and then to pay $1mil. to attend a raja course.  Then, the TMO 
can sell 
the real estate.

 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> anonymousff wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Once you complete the certification training, are you guaranteed to have
> > a working position which pays the promised salary?
> >
> > anyone knows if there is a catch to it and where?  :)
> 
> I think the most recent email from one of the Rajas (forwarded here from a
> list member) addresses your question. My understanding is no, there is not
> a guaranteed income by virtue of recerting. But I could be wrong.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TM: bliss v. ecstacy

[wayback71]

Here is a little a bit of info re antidepressants:  There is DNA testing for a 
gene encoding 
enzyme called CYP2D6*2.  It is a genotype whose activity is affected by certain 
drugs.  
Prozac (and the SSRI's, I believe) is a drug that decreases [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
activity.  This means 
that if you  are heterozygous for this gene you should be very cautious when 
taking SSRI's 
since you are much more likely to have a negative response than the typical 
person.  
Learned this due to testing for one of my children, who years ago had a 
really bad response to a tiny bit of Zoloft. I wonder why young people put on 
the SSRI's are 
not automatically pretested for this genotype.  Might save a lot of anguish, 
altho maybe it 
costs too much.  You can also be tested for other genotypes that have their own 
relationship with various other drugs - gives you a heads up on what to stay 
away from fio 
you consider yourself sensitive to medication.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob,
> 
> Do you have any real idea of what you're talking about?  What kind of 
> personal experience do you have with anti-depressants? Just because 
> something can be overprescribed doesn't mean it doesn't have 
> considerable value for many who get the correct dosage.
> 
> And just because someone flips out while on it and kills several while 
> another 'only' kills one while on who knows what, doesn't mean much.  
> There are millions who take prozac and other anti-depressants 
> responsibly who don't flip out.
> 
> 
> Sal
> 
> On Apr 5, 2005, at 5:03 PM, FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> 
> > There is no evidence that so-called anti-depressants do anything but
> > make lots of money for drug companies. People usually only take
> > antibiotics or many other drugs for a couple days, so it is obviously
> > in the profit interest of drug companies to hustle pills that people
> > take for long periods, like Prozac etc.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Paul Mason, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Guru Dev, TM & The TMO

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  
> > > Would you count yourself among the early adopters, Bob, or are you 
> > somehow
> > > an exception to your own generality?
> > 
> > ***
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Bobananda is displeased with your lack of obeisance...stand under a 
> > tree during the next thunderstorm...
> 
> *rofl* Dang, Bobaji, this is FUNNY! I almost fell out of my chair.

I think when  our Bobaji took a snack break and was rooting around in the 
fridge, someone 
else posted that response. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Reminded of April 4th deadline

[wayback71]

My understanding of that event is exactly as Rick reports it - that MMY ordered 
the 
draining of ATR accounts, Jerry was upset, and that was the reason Jerry was no 
longer 
welcome in the TMO - he had expressed - in front of MMY - his reservations 
about taking 
earned ATR points away from teachers.  I recall that we all assumed that the 
TMO really 
needed the money for some higher purpose, or some project.  Besides, everyone 
was 
afraid to speak up about their true feelings because there was the very real 
possibility of 
being blackballed from further participation in teaching or ATR.  Cause if 
Jerry could be 
given the cold shoulder,  anyone could.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on 4/5/05 12:48 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >until someone sucked the ATR credit account
> >> dry.
> >>> -Peter
> >> 
> >> That someone was MMY. He ordered it.
> > 
> > Rick, do you know that for sure? I know Jerry Jarvis
> > was really furious about it. Remember the letter they
> > sent..."It is such a joy to work fulltime for the
> > Movement"
> > -Peter
> 
> Who in the Mvt had authority over Jerry Jarvis at that time? Of course he
> ordered it. He has always been directly involved in policies and decisions
> much smaller than that one. Even if someone else came up with the idea, he
> would have had to approve it. The finance people have never worked
> independently of MMY. They go over everything with him and he makes the
> decisions. I vaguely remember some meeting in Seelisberg or Vitznau around
> that time when it was being discussed in his presence, but I don't remember
> details.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Reminded of April 4th deadline

[wayback71]

 


> On Apr 4, 2005, at 8:55 PM, wayback71 wrote:
> 
> > I never knew Vasant Ladd had been connected with the TMO.  What 
> > happened?  I saw him
> > about 16 years ago.  Excellent doctor and fine person.
> 
> He was to be "the one" for Ayurveda. Just before he was to go out to be 
> announced at a ceremony--they sprung a document on him --which he had 
> to sign-- which stated he took MMY as his master and declaring 
> obedience to him, etc. Lad has a guru. He broke into tears. He refused 
> to sign. End of story.

UGH.  Being Indian and perhaps eclectic, nonjudgmental and mature in his views, 
Ladd  
must have been clueless about the TMO m.o to have gotten so close to being 
installed and 
not have had suspicions about the whole loyalty thing.  He seems to have done 
well on his 
terms.  Good for him.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Reminded of April 4th deadline

[wayback71]

I never knew Vasant Ladd had been connected with the TMO.  What happened?  I 
saw him 
about 16 years ago.  Excellent doctor and fine person.

:
> 
> On Apr 4, 2005, at 7:07 PM, Bob Brigante wrote:
> 
> > Chopra is such a public figure, who would still be just another
> > M.D. in Boston if MMY had not given him the knowledge of Ayurveda and
> > other Vedic knowledge
>

Vaj wrote: 
> So you actually believe that Chopra was trained in Ayurveda by 
> Maharishi? Interesting.
> 
> There was actually someone on the list just the other day who kindly 
> relayed one of the primary reasons Chopra left--which he heard from 
> Chopra himself at a book signing. If you are familiar with the JAMA 
> case, and given the fact you seem to live vicariously thru the 
> movements every machination--I would be surprised if you did not.
> 
> It is also fairly well known what happened to Vasant Lad and the 
> movement. Pretty sick. A friend who trained on the physicians course in 
> Fairfield told lots of stories about what went on with Chopra. Bottom 
> line: I'm amazed he didn't leave sooner.
> 
> And what happened to Trigunaji and Balraj? They seem most conspicuous 
> by their absence.





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