Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:30 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:01 AM, bbrigante wrote: his generous service to the world. What service might that be? Bob has a tendency to redefine words and concepts to match his preconceptions. So 'service' in this case may be his tendency to relieve his followers of the burden of that hotbed of evil, money. :-) It's similar to his redefinition of what 'not living in luxury' means. For example, when Maharishi came to L.A. to film the Merv show (the one that Clint was on) and made us rent the entire floor of the Beverly Wilshire hotel so that he wouldn't have to see any of the rabble while he was there, that must have fallen into the category of "Any comfort extended to him since then was from people who were grateful for his wisdom and his generous service to the world." And when he then went further and made us go to the hotel management and insist that they rent us the rooms on top of and under Maharishi's room, because he was so paranoid that he thought the CIA would rent them to snoop on him, that must have been because he was trying to protect unwary people from being too near his holy aura. :-) Only one person actually stayed in any of the rooms that were rented -- Maharishi. The bill came to some- thing just over $200,000, for four days. This was all at his personal direction. If anyone's being 'generous' here, I'd say it's Maharishi being awfully generous about frittering away money he *could* have used to actually help people learn TM. Maybe a TM center in Watts? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
on 12/23/05 12:30 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi walked away from middle class life after he left college, to live a simple life, sleeping on the ground outside Guru Dev's door. After Guru Dev died, MMY lived in a cave for a while, then was inspired to go to South India and start the movement. Any comfort extended to him since then was from people who were grateful for his wisdom and his generous service to the world. Bob is dealing in fantasy. When Maharishi was in the US for the first Merv TV show, the hotel bill for his four days' stay at the Beverly Wilshire hotel was in six figures. Did that include the whole entourage, most of whom would have picked up their own tab? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
on 12/22/05 11:57 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Was the Bentley the one that I heard Vesey Crighton gave to MMY? Didn't know Vesey gave it, but it could be. I had heard that he gave him either a Bentley or a Rolls...and I could never understand that (assuming the story to be true) as this was in the '70s and post-Rajneesh and post-Guru Maharaj-Ji, both of whom were taken to task for having extravagent cars such as Rolls. Giving MMY such a gift would be just asking for trouble, wouldn't it? But he only had one, and no Rolex. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/23/05 12:30 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob is dealing in fantasy. When Maharishi was in the US for the first Merv TV show, the hotel bill for his four days' stay at the Beverly Wilshire hotel was in six figures. Did that include the whole entourage, most of whom would have picked up their own tab? I clarified in a subsequent post. The bill for Maharishi's room alone was over $200,000 for four days. The reason is that he required us to rent the whole floor plus the rooms directly above and directly below his room on the adjacent floors. No one else stayed on this floor or in any of these rented rooms. The people in the entourage, if they stayed at that hotel, stayed floors away and paid for their own lodging. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I bet someplace, somewhere, there's a jivan mukta blazing in the brilliance of Brahman who would miserably fail this test. Just because someone's 'jivan mukta' also doesn't mean that you have to agree with them, follow them or approve of their actions either. JohnY --- markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://energygrid.com/spirit/ap-falsegurutest.html 1. States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of people and changing their lives for the better? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:01 AM, bbrigante wrote: his generous service to the world. What service might that be? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, feste37 wrote:How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of people and changing their lives for the better? If it were for free, that would be generous. I honestly doubt if he were so generous as you claim, he wouldn't be a billionaire nor have time to be the workaholic CEO type.I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, feste37 wrote: How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of people and changing their lives for the better? If it were for free, that would be generous. I honestly doubt if he were so generous as you claim, he wouldn't be a billionaire nor have time to be the workaholic CEO type. Your syntax is a bit garbled here, but I think I know what you're trying to say. I'll just point out the obvious, that spending all his time as a workaholic CEO type is what has made possible teaching TM around the world to millions (not just thousands) of people. I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? No, you don't wonder at all. There are many charitable organizations and individuals that have given money to victims of the tsunami and 9/11 (and Katrina, and many other worthy causes). The TMO, however, is not a charitable organization, it's an educational organization that exists to teach people TM, in the belief that if enough people are practicing it, there will be fewer disastrous tsunamis and less terrorism overall. So it doesn't make sense to expend resources trying to deal with the problem on the level of the problem instead of dealing with the root cause, especially when so much charity is flowing from organizations and individuals whose purpose it is to help the victims directly. It's perfectly reasonable to think this is an absurd belief, or even to criticize MMY for holding it, but it's kinda silly to attack him for being stingy when it *is* what he believes, and what he's devoted his life to attempting to accomplish. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 1:49 PM, authfriend wrote:I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? No, you don't wonder at all. There are many charitable organizations and individuals that have given money to victims of the tsunami and 9/11 (and Katrina, and many other worthy causes). The TMO, however, is not a charitable organization, it's an educational organization that exists to teach people TM, in the belief that if enough people are practicing it, there will be fewer disastrous tsunamis and less terrorism overall. So it doesn't make sense to expend resources trying to deal with the problem on the level of the problem instead of dealing with the root cause, especially when so much charity is flowing from organizations and individuals whose purpose it is to help the victims directly.You didn't answer the question. Are you implying they/he gave nothing? Not even a small amount?I'm sure many have died due to these faulty beliefs--really just extortion schemes. It's perfectly reasonable to think this is an absurd belief, or even to criticize MMY for holding it, but it's kinda silly to attack him for being stingy when it *is* what he believes, and what he's devoted his life to attempting to accomplish. Not according to one of his closest former disciples, Earl Kaplan. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Very well said. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, feste37 wrote: How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of people and changing their lives for the better? If it were for free, that would be generous. I honestly doubt if he were so generous as you claim, he wouldn't be a billionaire nor have time to be the workaholic CEO type. Your syntax is a bit garbled here, but I think I know what you're trying to say. I'll just point out the obvious, that spending all his time as a workaholic CEO type is what has made possible teaching TM around the world to millions (not just thousands) of people. I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? No, you don't wonder at all. There are many charitable organizations and individuals that have given money to victims of the tsunami and 9/11 (and Katrina, and many other worthy causes). The TMO, however, is not a charitable organization, it's an educational organization that exists to teach people TM, in the belief that if enough people are practicing it, there will be fewer disastrous tsunamis and less terrorism overall. So it doesn't make sense to expend resources trying to deal with the problem on the level of the problem instead of dealing with the root cause, especially when so much charity is flowing from organizations and individuals whose purpose it is to help the victims directly. It's perfectly reasonable to think this is an absurd belief, or even to criticize MMY for holding it, but it's kinda silly to attack him for being stingy when it *is* what he believes, and what he's devoted his life to attempting to accomplish. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Hey, Bob Brigante,Did you say Exc. Bevan Morris has a million dollar marble bathroom.?? Why should Maharishi be afraid of CIA.??OriginalMessage- From: "TurquoiseB" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:30:13 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru testBob has a tendency to redefine words and concepts to match his preconceptions. So 'service' in this case may be his tendency to relieve his followers of the burden of that hotbed of evil, money. :-) It's similar to his redefinition of what 'not living in luxury' means. For example, when Maharishi came to L.A. to film the Merv show (the one that Clint was on) and made us rent the entire floor of the Beverly Wilshire hotel so that he wouldn't have to see any of the rabble while he was there, that must have fallen into the category of "Any comfort extended to him since then was from people who were grateful for his wisdom and his generous service to the world." And when he then went further and made us go to the hotel management and insist that they rent us the rooms on top of and under Maharishi's room, because he was so paranoid that he thought the CIA would rent them to snoop on him, that must have been because he was trying to protect unwary people from being too near his holy aura. :-) Only one person actually stayed in any of the rooms that were rented -- Maharishi. The bill came to some-thing just over $200,000, for four days. This was all at his personal direction. If anyone's being 'generous' here, I'd say it's Maharishi being awfully generous about frittering away money he *could* have used to actually help people learn TM. Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Generosity is the giving of your time and talents to help improve the lives of others. I would say MMY passes that test to all but the most cynical observers. It seems that you see no value at all in what he has done. I would call you a TN (true nonbeliever), which is a bit like being a TB in the sense that you have to ignore huge swaths of evidence in order to maintain your point of view, come hell or high water. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, feste37 wrote: How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of people and changing their lives for the better? If it were for free, that would be generous. I honestly doubt if he were so generous as you claim, he wouldn't be a billionaire nor have time to be the workaholic CEO type. I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Generosity is the giving of your time and talents to help improve the lives of others. I would say MMY passes that test to all but the most cynical observers. It seems that you see no value at all in what he has done. I would call you a TN (true nonbeliever), which is a bit like being a TB in the sense that you have to ignore huge swaths of evidence in order to maintain your point of view, come hell or high water. I agree that generosity is the giving of, ones time and talents to help improve the lives of others. And IMO even focussing of ones talents on helping others is laudible. Whether one receives nothing, something modest, something substantial for that focus is not so relevant. Though it may be a further sign of generosity, that if one is generously renumberated for focusing ones time and talents to help improve the lives of others, that part or all of that renumeration is also shared. Take Oprah. Though not my cup of tea in some regards, it seems clear she is focussed on helping others. That she makes billions doing so is not a crime. Nor does it diminsh from the good results from her focus. That she gives away tens of millions in causes that also help others, is another wave of good will. Ted Turner is another example. He paved the way for world-wide, instant news (while it currently has it excesses, overall it is a great development, IMO.) And he had given much of his fortune away. Over one billion I think to the UN. A similar case could be made for Bill Gates. Certainly he is giving away most of his fortune. Though somemight argue that the focus of Microsoft was not to help people. I disagree, but reasonable people can have different views. Bill Gates might be another --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, feste37 wrote: How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of people and changing their lives for the better? If it were for free, that would be generous. I honestly doubt if he were so generous as you claim, he wouldn't be a billionaire nor have time to be the workaholic CEO type. I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 1:49 PM, authfriend wrote: I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? No, you don't wonder at all. There are many charitable organizations and individuals that have given money to victims of the tsunami and 9/11 (and Katrina, and many other worthy causes). The TMO, however, is not a charitable organization, it's an educational organization that exists to teach people TM, in the belief that if enough people are practicing it, there will be fewer disastrous tsunamis and less terrorism overall. So it doesn't make sense to expend resources trying to deal with the problem on the level of the problem instead of dealing with the root cause, especially when so much charity is flowing from organizations and individuals whose purpose it is to help the victims directly. You didn't answer the question. It was disingenuously phrased as a question. I addressed what you didn't have the cojones to say directly. Are you implying they/he gave nothing? Not even a small amount? I'm sure many have died due to these faulty beliefs--really just extortion schemes. No, they died due to the disasters, as you know. It's perfectly reasonable to think this is an absurd belief, or even to criticize MMY for holding it, but it's kinda silly to attack him for being stingy when it *is* what he believes, and what he's devoted his life to attempting to accomplish. Not according to one of his closest former disciples, Earl Kaplan. Earl Kaplan has said a whole lot of things. I'm surprised anybody would take his word on anything relating to MMY without solid independent confirmation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Judy, How, exactly, will the amount of people practicing TM affect the number of tsunamis, (or anything else relating to them) seeing as how the cause of those are far beneath the ocean? Yes, I know the silliness the TMO tries to perpetrate on how we can affect natural disasters, but do you really believe that? And, if you do, how exactly do you think that would happen? Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:49 PM, authfriend wrote: The TMO, however, is not a charitable organization, it's an educational organization that exists to teach people TM, in the belief that if enough people are practicing it, there will be fewer disastrous tsunamis and less terrorism overall.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, How, exactly, will the amount of people practicing TM affect the number of tsunamis, (or anything else relating to them) seeing as how the cause of those are far beneath the ocean? Yes, I know the silliness the TMO tries to perpetrate on how we can affect natural disasters, but do you really believe that? And, if you do, how exactly do you think that would happen? I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an explanation as any for such a notion. Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:49 PM, authfriend wrote: The TMO, however, is not a charitable organization, it's an educational organization that exists to teach people TM, in the belief that if enough people are practicing it, there will be fewer disastrous tsunamis and less terrorism overall. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Yes, I am aware of the TMO dogma regarding stress in the atmosphere, as I said. That is why I am asking--do you really believe that stress, as defined in human terms, is what is responsible for natural disasters, things that have been going on, by all accounts, for millions of years, long before humans came on the scene? And, if you do, how is this different from any other superstition? Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 2:50 PM, authfriend wrote: According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an explanation as any for such a notion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
When the sea gods pick up a sattvic cosmic vibe, they smile and there is like rad 10-15 ft perfect glassy waves with unbelievable and awesomely radical endless pipes, huge papayas gently falling when you are hungry, and ever righteous babes everywhere on the beach. And when there is a tamasic vibe coming from earth, the sea gods get pissed and shake all over, and this causes Tsunamis. Duh. Where have you been girl? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, How, exactly, will the amount of people practicing TM affect the number of tsunamis, (or anything else relating to them) seeing as how the cause of those are far beneath the ocean? Yes, I know the silliness the TMO tries to perpetrate on how we can affect natural disasters, but do you really believe that? And, if you do, how exactly do you think that would happen? Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Responses interleaved. --- Sal Sunshine wrote: Yes, I am aware of the TMO dogma regarding stress in the atmosphere, as I said. That is why I am asking--do you really believe that stress, as defined in human terms, Maharishi's definition of stress is effectively a definition of ignorance: experiences that overshadow the self's awareness of itself. So the link is not between lactic acid and tsunamis, but between ignorance and tsunamis. is what is responsible for natural disasters, things that have been going on, by all accounts, for millions of years, long before humans came on the scene? If enlightenment is actually the condition that brings peace to a violent planet, it would make sense that the disasters would happen before humans got here. And, if you do, how is this different from any other superstition? Scientific methods might help us determine whether enlightenment soothes the environment, but who's to do the research? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Responses interleaved. --- Sal Sunshine wrote: Yes, I am aware of the TMO dogma regarding stress in the atmosphere, as I said. That is why I am asking--do you really believe that stress, as defined in human terms, Maharishi's definition of stress is effectively a definition of ignorance: experiences that overshadow the self's awareness of itself. So the link is not between lactic acid and tsunamis, but between ignorance and tsunamis. is what is responsible for natural disasters, things that have been going on, by all accounts, for millions of years, long before humans came on the scene? If enlightenment is actually the condition that brings peace to a violent planet, it would make sense that the disasters would happen before humans got here. And, if you do, how is this different from any other superstition? Scientific methods might help us determine whether enlightenment soothes the environment, but who's to do the research? The Sea God's nymphs and sirens, of course. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, Bob Brigante, Did you say Exc. Bevan Morris has a million dollar marble bathroom.?? Why should Maharishi be afraid of CIA.?? *** Guru Bev's old digs on campus did contain an $18,000 marble bathroom -- however, he now lives in Vedic City when he's not in Vlodrop -- no word on the marbleness of his toilet. Maharishi was a target of the CIA because he was targeted by that peanut-farming moron, Jimmy Carter. Rick Archer has posted here before about MMY's meeting with Carter in the Georgia governor's office not long before Carter became President (a hilarious scene -- Carter praying on his knees when MMY walked into the office). Carter felt that MMY was a threat to Christianity and determined to meet the enemy and find a way to derail him -- fortunately, like most of Carter's muddled thinking, the CIA's efforts fizzled out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
I think for every natural disaster that strikes, we should set up giant loudspeakers and blast either Barry Manilow or Ozzy at full volume right above the offending ocean, or mountain, or whatever else has the nerve to unstress on us. That would teach em. Same thing with anyone who gives as silly answers as Patrick and Judy have. Sal I am music, and I write the soongs I can feel the earth starting to tremble already. :) On Dec 23, 2005, at 2:53 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: When the sea gods pick up a sattvic cosmic vibe, they smile and there is like rad 10-15 ft perfect glassy waves with unbelievable and awesomely radical endless pipes, huge papayas gently falling when you are hungry, and ever righteous babes everywhere on the beach. And when there is a tamasic vibe coming from earth, the sea gods get pissed and shake all over, and this causes Tsunamis. Duh. Where have you been girl?
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Generosity is the giving of your time and talents to help improve the lives of others. I would say MMY passes that test to all but the most cynical observers. It seems that you see no value at all in what he has done. I would call you a TN (true nonbeliever), which is a bit like being a TB in the sense that you have to ignore huge swaths of evidence in order to maintain your point of view, come hell or high water. ** The phonies who knock MMY are like those who knocked Jesus and his devotees when a woman put an expensive oil on Him: some had indignation within themselves and said, why was this waste of the ointment made? For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her. http://www.clarion-call.org/extras/who.htm The fact is, nobody could do enough to honor a great saint like Maharishi, but there are always demonic sorts who feel impelled to attack the holy -- not that that is not a path to enlightenment: http://members.cox.net/apamnapat/entities/Shishupala.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 12:28 PM, feste37 wrote: How about, teaching TM around the world to many thousands of people and changing their lives for the better? If it were for free, that would be generous. I honestly doubt if he were so generous as you claim, he wouldn't be a billionaire nor have time to be the workaholic CEO type. I wonder how much was given to the Tsunami victims or the victims of 9/11 by him? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Are you implying, it's the "Tree falling in the forest" concept. The entire solar system was born out of remnants of a SuperNova. The most violent event. We are literaly made out of star-dust. In a few billion years the Sun will expand to become a Red-Giant, swallowing Earth and Mars.!! Could we prevent this from happening.??OriginalMessage- From: "Sal Sunshine" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 14:56:35 -0600 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test Yes, I am aware of the TMO dogma regarding "stress" in the atmosphere, as I said. That is why I am asking--do you really believe that stress, as defined in human terms, is what is responsible for natural disasters, things that have been going on, by all accounts, for millions of years, long before humans came on the scene? And, if you do, how is this different from any other superstition? Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
And Fundie Carter's, Magnum Opus was the big fuck-up in Iran. He allowed Ayatholla Khomeni to take power. I think, he sent just three helicopters.OriginalMessage- From: "bbrigante" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:23:15 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru testGuru Bev's old digs on campus did contain an $18,000 marble bathroom -- however, he now lives in Vedic City when he's not in Vlodrop -- no word on the marbleness of his toilet.Maharishi was a target of the CIA because he was targeted by that peanut-farming moron, Jimmy Carter. Rick Archer has posted here before about MMY's meeting with Carter in the Georgia governor's office not long before Carter became President (a hilarious scene -- Carter praying on his knees when MMY walked into the office). Carter felt that MMY was a threat to Christianity and determined to meet the enemy and find a way to derail him -- fortunately, like most of Carter's muddled thinking, the CIA's efforts fizzled out. Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
This is not the case--but I honestly don't think you'll convince many people at all that if you give money to Mahesh or practice his McMeditation you're going to stop tsunamis.On Dec 23, 2005, at 3:19 PM, feste37 wrote:Generosity is the giving of your time and talents to help improve the lives of others. I would say MMY passes that test to all but the most cynical observers. It seems that you see no value at all in what he has done. I would call you a TN (true nonbeliever), which is a bit like being a TB in the sense that you have to ignore huge swaths of evidence in order to maintain your point of view, come hell or high water. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 3:38 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote:Ted Turner is another example. He paved the way for world-wide, instant news (while it currently has it excesses, overall it is a great development, IMO.) And he had given much of his fortune away. Over one billion I think to the UN. When we were in Montana we came across this huge fenced in range filled with Bison that Ted had bought to help save this species. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 3:41 PM, authfriend wrote: Are you implying they/he gave nothing? Not even a small amount? I'm sure many have died due to these faulty beliefs--really just extortion schemes. No, they died due to the disasters, as you know. No, I was referring specifically to people Mahesh had convinced his brand of Ayurveda would cure them of fatal illness. Then when they died he sent people to collect the money off the begrieved families. I suspect this is just the tip of the iceberg. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I am aware of the TMO dogma regarding stress in the atmosphere, as I said. That is why I am asking--do you really believe that stress, as defined in human terms, is what is responsible for natural disasters, things that have been going on, by all accounts, for millions of years, long before humans came on the scene? And, if you do, how is this different from any other superstition? I could have sworn I just said I didn't believe it, but I didn't rule it out. Let me see... looking down Why, yes, that's exactly what I said. Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 2:50 PM, authfriend wrote: I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an explanation as any for such a notion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the sea gods pick up a sattvic cosmic vibe, they smile and there is like rad 10-15 ft perfect glassy waves with unbelievable and awesomely radical endless pipes, huge papayas gently falling when you are hungry, and ever righteous babes everywhere on the beach. And when there is a tamasic vibe coming from earth, the sea gods get pissed and shake all over, and this causes Tsunamis. That's after you fellas try to hit on the righteous babes. Duh. Where have you been girl? Not on the beach, apparently... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, How, exactly, will the amount of people practicing TM affect the number of tsunamis, (or anything else relating to them) seeing as how the cause of those are far beneath the ocean? Yes, I know the silliness the TMO tries to perpetrate on how we can affect natural disasters, but do you really believe that? And, if you do, how exactly do you think that would happen? Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think for every natural disaster that strikes, we should set up giant loudspeakers and blast either Barry Manilow or Ozzy at full volume right above the offending ocean, or mountain, or whatever else has the nerve to unstress on us. That would teach em. Same thing with anyone who gives as silly answers as Patrick and Judy have. Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, with that person *advocating* what they are reporting someone else said. I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. Sal I am music, and I write the soongs I can feel the earth starting to tremble already. :) On Dec 23, 2005, at 2:53 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: When the sea gods pick up a sattvic cosmic vibe, they smile and there is like rad 10-15 ft perfect glassy waves with unbelievable and awesomely radical endless pipes, huge papayas gently falling when you are hungry, and ever righteous babes everywhere on the beach. And when there is a tamasic vibe coming from earth, the sea gods get pissed and shake all over, and this causes Tsunamis. Duh. Where have you been girl? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote: Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, with that person *advocating* what they are reporting someone else said. Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. That's the whole idea--they're not supposed to. A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. Great idea, Judy. Enjoy. :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 3:41 PM, authfriend wrote: Are you implying they/he gave nothing? Not even a small amount? I'm sure many have died due to these faulty beliefs--really just extortion schemes. No, they died due to the disasters, as you know. No, I was referring specifically to people Mahesh had convinced his brand of Ayurveda would cure them of fatal illness. Then when they died he sent people to collect the money off the begrieved families. Oh, a non sequitur, I see. I suspect this is just the tip of the iceberg. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote: Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, with that person *advocating* what they are reporting someone else said. Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. Reading comprehension, Sal. Next time try reading what I *actually* say instead of what you need to believe I'm saying. I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. That's the whole idea--they're not supposed to. A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. Great idea, Judy. Enjoy. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
You're evading the point and also attributing to me an argument I never put forward. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not the case--but I honestly don't think you'll convince many people at all that if you give money to Mahesh or practice his McMeditation you're going to stop tsunamis. On Dec 23, 2005, at 3:19 PM, feste37 wrote: Generosity is the giving of your time and talents to help improve the lives of others. I would say MMY passes that test to all but the most cynical observers. It seems that you see no value at all in what he has done. I would call you a TN (true nonbeliever), which is a bit like being a TB in the sense that you have to ignore huge swaths of evidence in order to maintain your point of view, come hell or high water. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) > > > > According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters > > is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress > > in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number > > and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an > > explanation as any for such a notion. It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid facts. I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. > > Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if you agree to take one in Basic English. Sal > On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:59 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote: > > > Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly > > to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, > > with that person *advocating* what they are reporting > > someone else said. > > Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you > were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it > sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. Reading comprehension, Sal. Next time try reading what I *actually* say instead of what you need to believe I'm saying. > > I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. > > That's the whole idea--they're not supposed to. > > > A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. > > Great idea, Judy. Enjoy. :) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ▪ Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web. ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote: Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, with that person *advocating* what they are reporting someone else said. Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. That's the whole idea--they're not supposed to. A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. Great idea, Judy. Enjoy. :) But they need to build your focus and then test whether you can read during Barry Manilow or Ozzzy blaring. Or being a John Cage fan, while both are playing, preferably 100 songs each all at the same cacophonatic time. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote: Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, with that person *advocating* what they are reporting someone else said. Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. Reading comprehension, Sal. Next time try reading what I *actually* say instead of what you need to believe I'm saying. WHAT! and take all the fun out of FFL? I get my daily amusment from reading such responses. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Hey, don't go knocking DC comics now. It might upset the Sea Gods. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?)   According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters  is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress  in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number  and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an  explanation as any for such a notion. It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid facts. I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if you agree to take one in Basic English. Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:59 PM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote:  Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly  to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said,  with that person *advocating* what they are reporting  someone else said. Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. Reading comprehension, Sal. Next time try reading what I *actually* say instead of what you need to believe I'm saying.  I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. That's the whole idea--they're not supposed to.  A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. Great idea, Judy. Enjoy. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ⪠ Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web.  ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Perish the thought. I loved em. Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 5:36 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: Hey, don't go knocking DC comics now. It might upset the Sea Gods. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply > reporting what some else has said even though you state that it > seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what > other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other > than DC Comics?) > > > > > > According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters > > > is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress > > > in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number > > > and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an > > > explanation as any for such a notion. > > It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your > belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid > facts. > > I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. > > > > Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. > > Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if > you agree to take one in Basic English. > > Sal > > > On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:59 PM, authfriend wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote: > > > > > > > Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly > > > > to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, > > > > with that person *advocating* what they are reporting > > > > someone else said. > > > > > > Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you > > > were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it > > > sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. > > > > Reading comprehension, Sal. Next time try reading what > > I *actually* say instead of what you need to believe I'm > > saying. > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. > > > > > > That's the whole idea--they're not supposed to. > > > > > > > A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. > > > > > > Great idea, Judy. Enjoy. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > > â–ª  Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web. > >  > > â–ª  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > >  [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >  > > â–ª  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of > > Service. > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS ▪ Visit your group FairfieldLife on the web. ▪ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ▪ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When the sea gods pick up a sattvic cosmic vibe, they smile and there is like rad 10-15 ft perfect glassy waves with unbelievable and awesomely radical endless pipes, huge papayas gently falling when you are hungry, and ever righteous babes everywhere on the beach. And when there is a tamasic vibe coming from earth, the sea gods get pissed and shake all over, and this causes Tsunamis. That's after you fellas try to hit on the righteous babes. You must be going to some tamasic beach then. At surf satvic city, there is no hitting on anyone, its just all mutual love in the air. (well to be honest, on the ground too.) Even on those fabled days when there are two girls for every guy. Thats cuz half the dudes are doing holy tapas to the surf gods. Its like totally in-tune with nature here, even In my Room. And its global waves of satva. Its happening even Back in the USSR. I mean like all the goddesses did descend at once to incarnate as the eternal blonde Surfer Girl. Like Sri Barbara Ann. And Sri Rhonda. We are all going to have fun, fun fun till her daddy (Indra) takes the T-Bird (the sign of the holy cross, the similtanaity of unity and diversity, ocean and wave) away (but thats in the next yuga, so party on dude). Ne way, I Get Around to every part of infinity, the wave reflecting the whole ocean. Wouldn't It Be Nice if everyone could just BE and dig this. Duh. Where have you been girl? Not on the beach, apparently... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 4:41 PM, authfriend wrote: Speaking of silly, I've always thought it's pretty silly to conflate a person reporting what someone else has said, with that person *advocating* what they are reporting someone else said. Yep. I know it's totally silly and almost unthinkable that you were advocating such nonsense, even thought that's exactly what it sounded like. Thanks for clearing that up. I'm afraid neither Barry Manilow nor Ozzy would help. That's the whole idea--they're not supposed to. A good course in reading comprehension, perhaps. Great idea, Judy. Enjoy. :) But they need to build your focus and then test whether you can read during Barry Manilow or Ozzzy blaring. Or being a John Cage fan, while both are playing, preferably 100 songs each all at the same cacophonatic time. I apologize to all for my, above, violent outbursts of wrath, rage and anger at Barry Manilow. I was not even aware of it until a trained professional pointed it out (trained as a snake charmer, but hey he is still a professional.) Apparently ever since the 70's I have had this huge rage against Barry Manilow and the type of music he writes. Though I do giggle hysterically whenever I meet a girl named Mandy. But according to the professional, thats just my denial hitting the walls of my inner latent anger that I didn't even know existed -- and which manifests in huge tnsumi sized waves of rage -- even though I am giggling on the surface. Anyway apologies for letting my rage against mediocre music spoil your christmas spirit. When I am in Brahamn, I hope I can recognize Manilow as THAT. I mean that should be the real acid test of liberation, yes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
---Yeah but the Fundie's have won the battle (not the long term war). Since Carter's Presidency, the Fundies have more or less Shangheid the executive branch of government, with plenty of right-wing big brass Fundies (even going back to the Reagan era - e.g. Oliver North) , secreted in high places within the pentagon, CIA, NSA, etc. As to numbers, the TM Movement has almost become extinct but the fundie Evangelical movement has burgeoned into a humongous powerhouse of influence. You could probably count the numbers of active TM'ers in the US in the thousands (a few thousand); but the largest Megachurch in the US (in Houston- televangelist Joel Osteen) , draws in 20,000 every Sunday. Even small towns all across the Midwest practically have a Church for the fundies in every square mile. They're coming out of the woodwork. Something stronger than TM-ocide spray will be needed to deal with the pestilence. Somebody - some remarkable Guru - must appear on the scene with a visible demonstration of Siddhis. And Fundie Carter's, Magnum Opus was the big fuck-up in Iran. He allowed Ayatholla Khomeni to take power. I think, he sent just three helicopters. OriginalMessage- From: bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:23:15 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test Guru Bev's old digs on campus did contain an $18,000 marble bathroom -- however, he now lives in Vedic City when he's not in Vlodrop -- no word on the marbleness of his toilet. Maharishi was a target of the CIA because he was targeted by that peanut-farming moron, Jimmy Carter. Rick Archer has posted here before about MMY's meeting with Carter in the Georgia governor's office not long before Carter became President (a hilarious scene -- Carter praying on his knees when MMY walked into the office). Carter felt that MMY was a threat to Christianity and determined to meet the enemy and find a way to derail him -- fortunately, like most of Carter's muddled thinking, the CIA's efforts fizzled out. - Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Yeah but the Fundie's have won the battle (not the long term war). Since Carter's Presidency, the Fundies have more or less Shangheid the executive branch of government, with plenty of right-wing big brass Fundies (even going back to the Reagan era - e.g. Oliver North) , secreted in high places within the pentagon, CIA, NSA, etc. As to numbers, the TM Movement has almost become extinct but the fundie Evangelical movement has burgeoned into a humongous powerhouse of influence. You could probably count the numbers of active TM'ers in the US in the thousands (a few thousand); but the largest Megachurch in the US (in Houston- televangelist Joel Osteen) , draws in 20,000 every Sunday. Even small towns all across the Midwest practically have a Church for the fundies in every square mile. They're coming out of the woodwork. Something stronger than TM-ocide spray will be needed to deal with the pestilence. Somebody - some remarkable Guru - must appear on the scene with a visible demonstration of Siddhis. And Fundie Carter's, Magnum Opus was the big fuck-up in Iran. He allowed Ayatholla Khomeni to take power. I think, he sent just three helicopters. OriginalMessage- From: bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:23:15 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test Guru Bev's old digs on campus did contain an $18,000 marble bathroom -- however, he now lives in Vedic City when he's not in Vlodrop -- no word on the marbleness of his toilet. Maharishi was a target of the CIA because he was targeted by that peanut-farming moron, Jimmy Carter. Rick Archer has posted here before about MMY's meeting with Carter in the Georgia governor's office not long before Carter became President (a hilarious scene -- Carter praying on his knees when MMY walked into the office). Carter felt that MMY was a threat to Christianity and determined to meet the enemy and find a way to derail him -- fortunately, like most of Carter's muddled thinking, the CIA's efforts fizzled out. Or the Beach Boys could make a come back -- with number one hits and albumns -- and sold out concerts -- that would be just as miraculous. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless.   According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters  is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress  in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number  and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an  explanation as any for such a notion. In case you aren't just pretending to be stupid for some unfathomable reason, read the above again and see if you can figure out why your question at the top, in light of what I actually wrote, is nonsensical. Hint: pay particular attention to the last sentence. It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid facts. I believe the only fact I cited in this specific connection is what MMY has said about why he believes mass meditation will reduce natural disasters. I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. I understand that you're incapable of comprehending the nature of skepticism, given that you yourself are a confirmed skeptopath. Too bad; that is rather limiting. Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if you agree to take one in Basic English. No, sorry, my English is fine. But you desperately need some serious tutoring. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:04 PM, authfriend wrote: > OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply > reporting what some else has said even though you state that it > seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, > what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I > mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Alright, Judy, I'll try one more time to make some sense of what you are trying to say. You don't believe natural disasters are caused by stress in the environment, or that meditation can affect natural disasters, except that it seems as good an explanation as any. What any others are, you don't say. You don't believe it, but you don't rule it out either. And, as far as stating things that yo do or don't believe, I could have sworn it was you who said, a while back, I don't tend to say things I don't believe. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/80257 Or maybe I was dreaming that too. Whatever. In any case, thanks for the clear, concise answers as to why you accept the pablum of the TMO so readily. And how your beliefs are based on solid, rational thought. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, Is that what they call a backwards compliment? Or is it the famous passive-aggressivness Dr. Peter finds everywhere. but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Or just straight out insulting. I get so confused.   According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters  is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress  in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number  and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an  explanation as any for such a notion. In case you aren't just pretending to be stupid for some unfathomable reason, I would vote for passive-aggressive-backwards-insulting-patronization. read the above again and see if you can figure out why your question at the top, in light of what I actually wrote, is nonsensical. um, patronizing? is that what its called? Or Condescending? Damn, I get my insults all mixed up. Best left to professionals I guess. Hint: pay particular attention to the last sentence. Ah, I know that one, really really I do. Call on me. Thats 'sarcasm.'! It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid facts. I believe the only fact I cited in this specific connection is what MMY has said about why he believes mass meditation will reduce natural disasters. I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. I understand that you're incapable of comprehending the nature of skepticism, hmm, I would vote straight out insult on that one. given that you yourself are a confirmed skeptopath. another point in the straight out insult bin. Too bad; that is rather limiting. hmm, snide skeptiticism combined with patronization? Did I get it right? Did I get it right? Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if you agree to take one in Basic English. No, sorry, my English is fine. But you desperately need some serious tutoring. Rudeness? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:04 PM, authfriend wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Alright, Judy, I'll try one more time to make some sense of what you are trying to say. You don't believe natural disasters are caused by stress in the environment, or that meditation can affect natural disasters, except that it seems as good an explanation as any. What any others are, you don't say. You don't believe it, but you don't rule it out either. And, as far as stating things that yo do or don't believe, I could have sworn it was you who said, a while back, I don't tend to say things I don't believe. Damn. A response without insults or patronization etc. SAL! You don't know how to play this game, do you?!!! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/80257 Or maybe I was dreaming that too. Ah ha. Slight sarcasm. Now you are getting the hang of it. Whatever. Wow, Dismissiveness. a three pointer! In any case, thanks for the clear, concise answers as to why you accept the pablum of the TMO so readily. Good. Heavy sarcasm. Sal, you are a bit slow from the starting blocks, but a quick study. And how your beliefs are based on solid, rational thought. Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:45 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: Damn. A response without insults or patronization etc. SAL! You don't know how to play this game, do you?!!! I guess not. Obviously, I'm tired. I think you got it all pinned down pretty well--insults, rude remarks, sarcasm...that's an astute analysis! You get an 'A'. :) Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
No, no Sal. That's why Mahesh and crew don't need to donate at such a gross level, they believe this. Judy's not sure what she believes. Or so her posts indicate.On Dec 23, 2005, at 8:36 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote:On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:04 PM, authfriend wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply "reporting what some else has said" even though you state that it "seems as good an explanation as any" (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Alright, Judy, I'll try one more time to make some sense of what you are trying to say. You don't believe natural disasters are caused by "stress" in the environment, or that meditation can affect natural disasters, except that it seems as good an explanation as any. What "any" others are, you don't say. You don't believe it, but you don't rule it out either. And, as far as stating things that yo do or don't believe, I could have sworn it was you who said, a while back, "I don't tend to say things I don't believe." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:04 PM, authfriend wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Alright, Judy, I'll try one more time to make some sense of what you are trying to say. I do sincerely hope that you aren't *really* trying to make some sense of what I was saying, because if that's the case, I can't imagine how you manage to tie your shoes. If it's just a pretense, of course, it isn't very attractive, but at least it's potentially curable. You don't believe natural disasters are caused by stress in the environment, or that meditation can affect natural disasters, except that it seems as good an explanation as any. What any others are, you don't say. You don't believe it, but you don't rule it out either. And, as far as stating things that yo do or don't believe, I could have sworn it was you who said, a while back, I don't tend to say things I don't believe. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/80257 Or maybe I was dreaming that too. Whatever. In any case, thanks for the clear, concise answers as to why you accept the pablum of the TMO so readily. And how your beliefs are based on solid, rational thought. Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, Is that what they call a backwards compliment? Or is it the famous passive-aggressivness Dr. Peter finds everywhere. but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Or just straight out insulting. I get so confused. Odd that you don't seem to find the nature of Sal's remarks to me confusing.   According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters  is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress  in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number  and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an  explanation as any for such a notion. In case you aren't just pretending to be stupid for some unfathomable reason, I would vote for passive-aggressive-backwards-insulting- patronization. read the above again and see if you can figure out why your question at the top, in light of what I actually wrote, is nonsensical. um, patronizing? is that what its called? Or Condescending? Damn, I get my insults all mixed up. Best left to professionals I guess. Hint: pay particular attention to the last sentence. Ah, I know that one, really really I do. Call on me. Thats 'sarcasm.'! It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid facts. I believe the only fact I cited in this specific connection is what MMY has said about why he believes mass meditation will reduce natural disasters. I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. I understand that you're incapable of comprehending the nature of skepticism, hmm, I would vote straight out insult on that one. given that you yourself are a confirmed skeptopath. another point in the straight out insult bin. Too bad; that is rather limiting. hmm, snide skeptiticism combined with patronization? Did I get it right? Did I get it right? Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if you agree to take one in Basic English. No, sorry, my English is fine. But you desperately need some serious tutoring. Rudeness? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
on 12/23/05 6:21 PM, matrixmonitor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Yeah but the Fundie's have won the battle (not the long term war). Since Carter's Presidency, the Fundies have more or less Shangheid the executive branch of government, with plenty of right-wing big brass Fundies (even going back to the Reagan era - e.g. Oliver North) , secreted in high places within the pentagon, CIA, NSA, etc. As to numbers, the TM Movement has almost become extinct but the fundie Evangelical movement has burgeoned into a humongous powerhouse of influence. You could probably count the numbers of active TM'ers in the US in the thousands (a few thousand); but the largest Megachurch in the US (in Houston- televangelist Joel Osteen) , draws in 20,000 every Sunday. Even small towns all across the Midwest practically have a Church for the fundies in every square mile. They're coming out of the woodwork. Something stronger than TM-ocide spray will be needed to deal with the pestilence. Somebody - some remarkable Guru - must appear on the scene with a visible demonstration of Siddhis. Unless he could convince them he was Christ, they'd probably kill him. And to convince them of that, he would have to massacre the non-Christians, because that's what they're expecting the Big Guy to do. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:04 PM, authfriend wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read-- I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Alright, Judy, I'll try one more time to make some sense of what you are trying to say. You don't believe natural disasters are caused by stress in the environment, or that meditation can affect natural disasters, except that it seems as good an explanation as any. What any others are, you don't say. You don't believe it, but you don't rule it out either. And, as far as stating things that yo do or don't believe, I could have sworn it was you who said, a while back, I don't tend to say things I don't believe. Damn. A response without insults or patronization etc. SAL! You don't know how to play this game, do you?!!! Oh, really, she's trying *so* hard, but she just isn't very good at it. Apparently she did manage to confuse you, but that's not much of an achievement, considering. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/80257 Or maybe I was dreaming that too. Ah ha. Slight sarcasm. Now you are getting the hang of it. Whatever. Wow, Dismissiveness. a three pointer! In any case, thanks for the clear, concise answers as to why you accept the pablum of the TMO so readily. Good. Heavy sarcasm. Sal, you are a bit slow from the starting blocks, but a quick study. And how your beliefs are based on solid, rational thought. Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, Is that what they call a backwards compliment? Or is it the famous passive-aggressivness Dr. Peter finds everywhere. but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Or just straight out insulting. I get so confused. Odd that you don't seem to find the nature of Sal's remarks to me confusing. About 10% confusing. But for the most part, she made some valid points, IMO. Though, to be honest, I am not sure why neither of you thinks its wise to be (or even pretend to be) the better person and say ok, it get the point you were making and then bite your tongue -- not dwell on phrasing -- which seems to be more of an ego war. Though I give Sal some points for being less drawn into ego wars. ===   According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters  is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress  in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number  and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an  explanation as any for such a notion. In case you aren't just pretending to be stupid for some unfathomable reason, I would vote for passive-aggressive-backwards-insulting- patronization. read the above again and see if you can figure out why your question at the top, in light of what I actually wrote, is nonsensical. um, patronizing? is that what its called? Or Condescending? Damn, I get my insults all mixed up. Best left to professionals I guess. Hint: pay particular attention to the last sentence. Ah, I know that one, really really I do. Call on me. Thats 'sarcasm.'! It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid facts. I believe the only fact I cited in this specific connection is what MMY has said about why he believes mass meditation will reduce natural disasters. I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. I understand that you're incapable of comprehending the nature of skepticism, hmm, I would vote straight out insult on that one. given that you yourself are a confirmed skeptopath. another point in the straight out insult bin. Too bad; that is rather limiting. hmm, snide skeptiticism combined with patronization? Did I get it right? Did I get it right? Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if you agree to take one in Basic English. No, sorry, my English is fine. But you desperately need some serious tutoring. Rudeness? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:04 PM, authfriend wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read-- I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Alright, Judy, I'll try one more time to make some sense of what you are trying to say. You don't believe natural disasters are caused by stress in the environment, or that meditation can affect natural disasters, except that it seems as good an explanation as any. What any others are, you don't say. You don't believe it, but you don't rule it out either. And, as far as stating things that yo do or don't believe, I could have sworn it was you who said, a while back, I don't tend to say things I don't believe. Damn. A response without insults or patronization etc. SAL! You don't know how to play this game, do you?!!! Oh, really, she's trying *so* hard, but she just isn't very good at it. Lets see, thats sarcasm, combined with direct imsult. Right? This is fun. Guess the insult category. What a fun game! Apparently she did manage to confuse you, Lets see, direct insult, right? but that's not much of an achievement, considering. Sarcasm. I know that one. Go Judy. You are slaughtering poor sal in the Insult/ Sarcasm / Slam / Passive Aggressive / Slur DERBY. And you get extra points for it being totally devoid of humor. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/80257 Or maybe I was dreaming that too. Ah ha. Slight sarcasm. Now you are getting the hang of it. Whatever. Wow, Dismissiveness. a three pointer! In any case, thanks for the clear, concise answers as to why you accept the pablum of the TMO so readily. Good. Heavy sarcasm. Sal, you are a bit slow from the starting blocks, but a quick study. And how your beliefs are based on solid, rational thought. Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 23, 2005, at 10:06 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: Though, to be honest, I am not sure why neither of you thinks its wise to be (or even pretend to be) the better person and say ok, it get the point you were making and then bite your tongue -- not dwell on phrasing -- which seems to be more of an ego war. I don't know why either. I guess I just get a bit tired, now and then, of all the rationalizing of behavior totally devoid of any conscience or logic that goes with respect to MMY. But you are definitely right--enough is enough. And besides, it's late. Though I give Sal some points for being less drawn into ego wars.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Yep, far better to give at the level of the root, (ie to MMY) than at that gross level where they might actually help someone in need. And this is what passes for logic in the TMO. Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 8:48 PM, Vaj wrote: No, no Sal. That's why Mahesh and crew don't need to donate at such a gross level, they believe this. Judy's not sure what she believes. Or so her posts indicate.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, Is that what they call a backwards compliment? Or is it the famous passive-aggressivness Dr. Peter finds everywhere. but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Or just straight out insulting. I get so confused. Odd that you don't seem to find the nature of Sal's remarks to me confusing. About 10% confusing. But for the most part, she made some valid points, IMO. No, in fact she made no valid points whatsoever. And she's well aware of that, I think. The idea was just to be nasty, rude, and sarcastic. Though, to be honest, I am not sure why neither of you thinks its wise to be (or even pretend to be) the better person and say ok, it get the point you were making She wasn't making a point. She was *pretending* to make a point by deliberately misreading and then sarcastically misrepresenting what I wrote. and then bite your tongue -- not dwell on phrasing -- which seems to be more of an ego war. Though I give Sal some points for being less drawn into ego wars. No, I don't think so. Try rereading the exchange to see who is the one prolonging it, and on what basis. It would help if you'd start back with my original post that she was responding to initially. ===   According to MMY, the root cause of natural disasters  is stress, as you know. Reducing the levels of stress  in the atmosphere will therefore reduce the number  and severity of natural disasters. Seems as good an  explanation as any for such a notion. In case you aren't just pretending to be stupid for some unfathomable reason, I would vote for passive-aggressive-backwards-insulting- patronization. read the above again and see if you can figure out why your question at the top, in light of what I actually wrote, is nonsensical. um, patronizing? is that what its called? Or Condescending? Damn, I get my insults all mixed up. Best left to professionals I guess. Hint: pay particular attention to the last sentence. Ah, I know that one, really really I do. Call on me. Thats 'sarcasm.'! It's sure nice to know that none of the TMO silliness is part of your belief system, and that you base all your arguments on good, solid facts. I believe the only fact I cited in this specific connection is what MMY has said about why he believes mass meditation will reduce natural disasters. I don't believe it, but I don't rule it out either. Oh. Yes, that sure clears things up. I understand that you're incapable of comprehending the nature of skepticism, hmm, I would vote straight out insult on that one. given that you yourself are a confirmed skeptopath. another point in the straight out insult bin. Too bad; that is rather limiting. hmm, snide skeptiticism combined with patronization? Did I get it right? Did I get it right? Tell you what, Judy. I'll take a course on reading comprehension if you agree to take one in Basic English. No, sorry, my English is fine. But you desperately need some serious tutoring. Rudeness? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 7:04 PM, authfriend wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read-- I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Alright, Judy, I'll try one more time to make some sense of what you are trying to say. You don't believe natural disasters are caused by stress in the environment, or that meditation can affect natural disasters, except that it seems as good an explanation as any. What any others are, you don't say. You don't believe it, but you don't rule it out either. And, as far as stating things that yo do or don't believe, I could have sworn it was you who said, a while back, I don't tend to say things I don't believe. Damn. A response without insults or patronization etc. SAL! You don't know how to play this game, do you?!!! Oh, really, she's trying *so* hard, but she just isn't very good at it. Lets see, thats sarcasm, combined with direct imsult. Right? This is fun. Guess the insult category. What a fun game! Boy, it's weird how you manage to spot my sarcasm and insults and miss hers completely. Why do you think that is? Apparently she did manage to confuse you, Lets see, direct insult, right? but that's not much of an achievement, considering. Sarcasm. I know that one. Go Judy. You are slaughtering poor sal in the Insult/ Sarcasm / Slam / Passive Aggressive / Slur DERBY. And you get extra points for it being totally devoid of humor. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/80257 Or maybe I was dreaming that too. Ah ha. Slight sarcasm. Now you are getting the hang of it. Whatever. Wow, Dismissiveness. a three pointer! In any case, thanks for the clear, concise answers as to why you accept the pablum of the TMO so readily. Good. Heavy sarcasm. Sal, you are a bit slow from the starting blocks, but a quick study. And how your beliefs are based on solid, rational thought. Sal Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 23, 2005, at 10:06 PM, a_non_moose_ff wrote: Though, to be honest, I am not sure why neither of you thinks its wise to be (or even pretend to be) the better person and say ok, it get the point you were making and then bite your tongue -- not dwell on phrasing -- which seems to be more of an ego war. I don't know why either. I guess I just get a bit tired, now and then, of all the rationalizing of behavior totally devoid of any conscience or logic that goes with respect to MMY. I gather you find it simply insufferable that MMY would act according to his beliefs. But you are definitely right--enough is enough. And besides, it's late. Though I give Sal some points for being less drawn into ego wars. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, far better to give at the level of the root, (ie to MMY) For the record, I don't give anything to the TMO or to MMY. than at that gross level where they might actually help someone in need. And this is what passes for logic in the TMO. Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 8:48 PM, Vaj wrote: No, no Sal. That's why Mahesh and crew don't need to donate at such a gross level, they believe this. Judy's not sure what she believes. Or so her posts indicate. Yes, Vaj has a great deal of trouble figuring out what I believe from my posts, just as Sal does. That's because they both *expect* me to believe certain things and find it extraordinarily confusing and disturbing when my posts don't confirm their expectations. Cognitive dissonance, big-time. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, Judy, so you don't believe what you stated below, you're simply reporting what some else has said even though you state that it seems as good an explanation as any (Which begs the question, what other explanations for natural disasters have you read--I mean, other than DC Comics?) Sal, I am absolutely positive that you are not as completely brainless as you are making yourself sound here, Is that what they call a backwards compliment? Or is it the famous passive-aggressivness Dr. Peter finds everywhere. but I'm durned if I know *why* you'd want to make yourself sound brainless. Or just straight out insulting. I get so confused. Odd that you don't seem to find the nature of Sal's remarks to me confusing. About 10% confusing. But for the most part, she made some valid points, IMO. No, in fact she made no valid points whatsoever. In fact? In fact! Can you pelase outline your personal epistimology. At present I am both baffled and amused. And she's well aware of that, I think. You are psychic as well as having a mystical and secret epistimology? You are quite the savant! The idea was just to be nasty, rude, and sarcastic. I didn't get that at all. I saw an earnest attempt to comply. Without insult. Though, to be honest, I am not sure why neither of you thinks its wise to be (or even pretend to be) the better person and say ok, it get the point you were making She wasn't making a point. She was *pretending* to make a point by deliberately misreading and then sarcastically misrepresenting what I wrote. I didn't see that at all. Projection on your part? Or I am a retard? Ha, I bet I know your response. and then bite your tongue -- not dwell on phrasing -- which seems to be more of an ego war. Though I give Sal some points for being less drawn into ego wars. No, I don't think so. Try rereading the exchange to see who is the one prolonging it, and on what basis. I did. More points to Sal. Though she has a few minor fouls (but she was tired. I can relate. 90% + 15% tiredness handicap = 105% for Sal) It would help if you'd start back with my original post that she was responding to initially. As someone I often admire once said, yawn. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, far better to give at the level of the root, (ie to MMY) For the record, I don't give anything to the TMO or to MMY. than at that gross level where they might actually help someone in need. And this is what passes for logic in the TMO. Sal On Dec 23, 2005, at 8:48 PM, Vaj wrote: No, no Sal. That's why Mahesh and crew don't need to donate at such a gross level, they believe this. Judy's not sure what she believes. Or so her posts indicate. Yes, Vaj has a great deal of trouble figuring out what I believe from my posts, just as Sal does. Poor writing? Or the easier explanation: they are both retards. Hmm. Their other posts seem either informed or witty. Odd they would become retards just when responding to you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Yeah but the Fundie's have won the battle (not the long term war). Since Carter's Presidency, the Fundies have more or less Shangheid the executive branch of government, with plenty of right-wing big brass Fundies (even going back to the Reagan era - e.g. Oliver North) , secreted in high places within the pentagon, CIA, NSA, etc. As to numbers, the TM Movement has almost become extinct but the fundie Evangelical movement has burgeoned into a humongous powerhouse of influence. You could probably count the numbers of active TM'ers in the US in the thousands (a few thousand); but the largest Megachurch in the US (in Houston- televangelist Joel Osteen) , draws in 20,000 every Sunday. Even small towns all across the Midwest practically have a Church for the fundies in every square mile. They're coming out of the woodwork. Something stronger than TM-ocide spray will be needed to deal with the pestilence. Somebody - some remarkable Guru - must appear on the scene with a visible demonstration of Siddhis. Why should the performance of some parlor tricks be evidence of enlightenment or something good? [snip] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Maharishi was a target of the CIA This is utter, unproven crap. There is ZERO evidence -- and never has been -- that the TMO or MMY is or ever was the target of the CIA. Of course, claiming that one is the target of the CIA is always a convenient scapegoat for one's own failings. But I can't help getting a bitter taste in my mouth whenever an individual or organisation is accused of illegal shenanigans -- as the CIA has with the TMO -- without evidence or proof. I find such declarations reprehensible. because he was targeted by that peanut-farming moron, Jimmy Carter. Rick Archer has posted here before about MMY's meeting with Carter in the Georgia governor's office not long before Carter became President (a hilarious scene -- Carter praying on his knees when MMY walked into the office). Carter felt that MMY was a threat to Christianity and determined to meet the enemy and find a way to derail him -- fortunately, like most of Carter's muddled thinking, the CIA's efforts fizzled out. All good and fine. But there are children to be fed, children to be clothed, children to be educated throughout the world. I am just wondering if we can all, me most of all, all apolgies to all, drop our petty arguing and focus on something of substance. Like feeding the children of the world. Bathing them in the compassion I know is in each of us. Just a thought on the verge of Hanukkah and Christmas, and just afer Ramadan and Holi. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Maharishi was a target of the CIA This is utter, unproven crap. Not to mention being a fantasy based in self importance, both for the person who thought it up (Maharishi) and the ones who perpetuate it (TMers who desperately want to cling to the idea that their lives were important enough to be persecuted). There is ZERO evidence -- and never has been -- that the TMO or MMY is or ever was the target of the CIA. Paranoids don't need evidence. In fact, the less hard evidence there is, the more it's a sign that the persecutors are doing a really good job. :-) Of course, claiming that one is the target of the CIA is always a convenient scapegoat for one's own failings. But I can't help getting a bitter taste in my mouth whenever an individual or organisation is accused of illegal shenanigans -- as the CIA has with the TMO -- without evidence or proof. I find such declarations reprehensible. It's not *about* the CIA. It's about eltitists' innate need to feel important. The TM organization panders to elitism. It tells its members that they're so important that when they meditate they clear stress from the atmosphere and that when they bounce on their butts they create world peace. It tells them that their belief systems are better than anyone else's in the world. And to put the cherry on top of the self-importance cake, it tells people that they are SO important that the CIA and other evil forces are trying to persecute the founder of this So Very Special And Important Tradition, and thus are indirectly trying to persecute *them*, the really important ones, the ones who make it all happen with their cash. It's so common in religious and spiritual traditions that the mind boggles that people still believe this crap. But people still believe this crap, because they're more desperate to be important than they are to be rational. because he was targeted by that peanut-farming moron, Jimmy Carter. Rick Archer has posted here before about MMY's meeting with Carter in the Georgia governor's office not long before Carter became President (a hilarious scene -- Carter praying on his knees when MMY walked into the office). Carter felt that MMY was a threat to Christianity and determined to meet the enemy and find a way to derail him -- fortunately, like most of Carter's muddled thinking, the CIA's efforts fizzled out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Somebody - some remarkable Guru - must appear on the scene with a visible demonstration of Siddhis. Why should the performance of some parlor tricks be evidence of enlightenment or something good? Some people are really *impressed* by flash, Shemp. I mean, look at the TM movement. It's managed to get people to give it tens of thousands of dollars to learn how to perform a parlor trick *without ever once demonstrating it*. People are suckers for flash. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 21, 2005, at 7:36 PM, braaahmaan wrote:Ok then.Its certainly not a mandatory thing. If its useful, fine, if not move on and go with whatever enlightenment proclaiming, thin-skinned, easily insulted, unaccountable, goal not practice teaching, hypocritical, plagarizing, neo-trandy-satsang-giving, opulent, adoration seeking, overtly fashionable, devotion demanding, affected stylizing, sexual preditor, flattery tactician, drooning on and on speaker, Slick-willie presenter, grand-title taking and giving, hyper-workshp giving, impersonal, linneage faking, non-profit scamming, angry ex-follower generating, pseudo-scientific, paranoid, self-serious taking, and/or gloomy and dour guru that you first stumble upon. Gee, if that's what you're recommending maybe we should just stick with the TM$P! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 21, 2005, at 7:36 PM, braaahmaan wrote: Ok then.Its certainly not a mandatory thing. If its useful, fine, if not move on and go with whatever enlightenment proclaiming, thin-skinned, easily insulted, unaccountable, goal not practice teaching, hypocritical, plagarizing, neo-trandy-satsang-giving, opulent, adoration seeking, overtly fashionable, devotion demanding, affected stylizing, sexual preditor, flattery tactician, drooning on and on speaker, Slick-willie presenter, grand-title taking and giving, hyper-workshp giving, impersonal, linneage faking, non-profit scamming, angry ex-follower generating, pseudo-scientific, paranoid, self-serious taking, and/or gloomy and dour guru that you first stumble upon. Gee, if that's what you're recommending maybe we should just stick with the TM$P! If Hitler handed you ten million dollars, no strings attached, would you accept it, and spend it as your own? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 21, 2005, at 7:36 PM, braaahmaan wrote: Ok then.Its certainly not a mandatory thing. If its useful, fine, if not move on and go with whatever enlightenment proclaiming, thin-skinned, easily insulted, unaccountable, goal not practice teaching, hypocritical, plagarizing, neo-trandy-satsang-giving, opulent, adoration seeking, overtly fashionable, devotion demanding, affected stylizing, sexual preditor, flattery tactician, drooning on and on speaker, Slick-willie presenter, grand-title taking and giving, hyper-workshp giving, impersonal, linneage faking, non-profit scamming, angry ex-follower generating, pseudo-scientific, paranoid, self-serious taking, and/or gloomy and dour guru that you first stumble upon. Gee, if that's what you're recommending maybe we should just stick with the TM$P! Now that is what I call a Kali Yuga guru! Just what we need. One glance of his dysfunctional lotus eyes is enough to awaken the most tamasic slumber. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent list. Could be used for major and minor gurus. To me, it reads more like a Test of Characteristics I Don't Think Gurus Should Have. Even so, MMY doesn't do too badly on it. Some of the criteria apply to him, but a lot don't. Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, or the questionable linneage point, as the jyotir math shankaracharya linneage controversy is not directly related. I'm sure there are some who would include the opulence point and maybe a couple others. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://energygrid.com/spirit/ap-falsegurutest.html 1.States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers. 2.Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teaching; they do not take kindly to ordinary unenlightened individuals questioning them. They or their organisations will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans. 3.Acts omnipotently with no accountability: Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. Unjust or outrageous behaviour by the guru is passed off as what is needed to help the followers grow (how kind). These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students. A real master respects your will even if he or she understands that your particular decisions may not be in your interest, and he or she will act accountably to an ethical code of conduct. 4.Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it: It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points in the same way that the scholars in the middle ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Any fool can talk about the end goal because what is said is irrefutable to most of your listeners. What is skillful is guiding those listeners to having awakening within themselves. The real teacher focuses on the path and strictly avoids any talk on enlightenment. 5.Does not practice what is preached: Contrary to spiritual myth, you don't reach a point of realization whereby you can then start acting mindlessly. If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way, at least most of the time, showing suitable regret for any lapses). If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live in austere conditions, so should he. 6.Takes the credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: The fact is that meditation and guided visualisation work. Anyone doing them will experience major changes, benefits and realizations. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques so that she has something unique to attract followers. And she will hijack the effects of meditation as the guru's blessing rather than each individuals natural potential. Often the students or followers are forbidden from divulging the techniques to maintain a sort of intellectual property right, usually under the guise of needing the technique to be taught correctly. 7.Specifically gives satsang or darshan when it is not part of his culture: Darshan is when the disciples or students of a master line up and to pass their master, who is usually seated, with either a bow or traditionally kissing their feet (yes it does happen). In the East, this is part of their culture and a normal thing to do to show respect and reverence (even children will kiss the feet of their fathers). However, here in the West, such copycat behaviour is a strong indication that the guru is acting a role. Satsang, on the other hand, means literally the company of the Truth. In a deeper sense it is an affirmation of the Guru-Disciple relationship in Eastern traditions. But some Western gurus will use this terminology because they are playing a role. 8.Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent list. Could be used for major and minor gurus. To me, it reads more like a Test of Characteristics I Don't Think Gurus Should Have. Even so, MMY doesn't do too badly on it. Some of the criteria apply to him, but a lot don't. Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, or the questionable linneage point, as the jyotir math shankaracharya linneage controversy is not directly related. I'm sure there are some who would include the opulence point and maybe a couple others. Folks who want to reinforce their belief that MMY is a false guru, like Vaj, can surely find ways to make all the criteria apply to him. Likewise those who hold him in the highest esteem no doubt won't see any of the criteria as fitting. The truth, as usual, is probably somewhere in between. See my longer response to Vaj for the issues I take with his evaluation. I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 21, 2005, at 7:36 PM, braaahmaan wrote: Ok then.Its certainly not a mandatory thing. If its useful, fine, if not move on and go with whatever enlightenment proclaiming, thin-skinned, easily insulted, unaccountable, goal not practice teaching, hypocritical, plagarizing, neo-trandy-satsang-giving, opulent, adoration seeking, overtly fashionable, devotion demanding, affected stylizing, sexual preditor, flattery tactician, drooning on and on speaker, Slick-willie presenter, grand-title taking and giving, hyper-workshp giving, impersonal, linneage faking, non-profit scamming, angry ex-follower generating, pseudo-scientific, paranoid, self-serious taking, and/or gloomy and dour guru that you first stumble upon. Gee, if that's what you're recommending maybe we should just stick with the TM$P! Now that is what I call a Kali Yuga guru! Just what we need. One glance of his dysfunctional lotus eyes is enough to awaken the most tamasic slumber. Your post is replete with latent rage and anger. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/HcoraC/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
on 12/22/05 8:51 AM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, He didn't object to being called Maharishi, may have decided to use the term His Holiness, constantly says my Vedic science, and then there's this (is founding something an accomplishment if that thing never succeeds?): A Glimpse of Maharishi's Achievements Over Forty Years Around the World (1957-1998) 1957: Maharishi founds the world-wide Spiritual Regeneration Movement. 1957-1967: Maharishi introduces research in the field of consciousness and brings to light seven states of consciousness. 1970: The first scientific research validating the effects of Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation programme is published in the international scientific journals Science and Scientific American. 1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science -- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative Intelligence, training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe. 1975: Maharishi discovers the Constitution of the Universe -- the lively potential of Natural Law -- in Rk Ved, and discovers the structuring dynamics of Rk Ved in the entire Vedic Literature. On the basis of the discovery of the Maharishi Effect, Maharishi celebrates the Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment around the world, with grand celebrations on all continents. India's Lok Sabha issues a proclamation, one of many issued by governments around the globe, commending Maharishi's world-wide activities. 1976: Maharishi creates a World Government for the Age of Enlightenment with its sovereignty in the domain of consciousness and authority in the invincible power of Natural Law. Maharishi introduces the TM-Sidhi Programme and the experience of bubbling bliss in Yogic Flying to create supreme mind-body co-ordination in the individual and coherence in world consciousness. 1978: Maharishi inaugurates the Ideal Society Campaign in 108 Countries. Maharishi creates the World Peace Project, sending teams of Yogic Flyers to the most troubled areas of the world, to calm the violence through their self-referral performance of the Transcendental Meditation TM-Sidhi programme. Maharishi formulates his Absolute Theories of Government, Education, Health, Defence, Economy, Management, and Law and Order to raise every area of life to perfection. 1980: Maharishi brings to light the commentary of Rk Veda, Apaurusheya Bhashya, as the self-generating, self-perpetuating structure of consciousness. 1981: Maharishi organises the centuries-old scattered Vedic Literature as the literature of a perfect science -- Maharishi's Vedic Science and Technology. 1984: The first group of 7,000 Yogic Flyers gathers in Fairfield, Iowa, USA. Scientific research on this assembly validates Maharishi's prediction that when the square root of one percent of the world's population practices the TM-Sidhi programme, including Yogic Flying, together in one place, positive trends increase and negative tendencies decrease throughout the whole world. 1985: Maharishi brings to light the full potential of Ayur-Veda, Gandharva Veda, Dhanur-Veda, Sthapatya Veda, and Jyotish to create a disease-free and problem-free family of nations. 1988: Maharishi formulates his Master Plan to Create Heaven on Earth for the reconstruction of the whole world, inner and outer. Maharishi brings to light Supreme Political Science to introduce automation in administration and create conflict-free politics and a problem-free government in every country. Maharishi inspires the formation of a new political party, the Natural Law Party, in an increasing number of countries throughout the world, to enrich and support national law with Natural Law. 1993: Maharishi inaugurates Global Ram Raj. Maharishi's Absolute Theory of Government and his practical formula A Group for a Government -- gaining support of Natural Law by creating and maintaining a group of Yogic Flyers -- is verified politically in Mozambique and scientifically by a multi-million dollar experiment Washington, DC in the USA. Maharishi discovers the Veda and Vedic Literature in human physiology, establishing the grand unity of all material diversity of creation -- of all sciences and of all religions. Maharishi establishes Maharishi Vedic Universities and Maharishi Ayur-Veda Universities throughout the world to offer mastery over Natural Law on every level of education -- perfection in every profession. 1994: Maharishi introduces programmes for prevention in the fields of health and security, to create healthy national life and an invincible armour of defence for the nation through the creation of a PREVENTION WING of Yogic Flyers in the military of every country. 1995: Maharishi establishes Maharishi University
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
on 12/22/05 10:00 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. Have you ever been in his private suite? Flown on the Movement's Boeing 707 (now sold), ridden in his Bentley? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, or the questionable linneage point, as the jyotir math shankaracharya linneage controversy is not directly related. I'm sure there are some who would include the opulence point and maybe a couple others. Folks who want to reinforce their belief that MMY is a false guru, like Vaj, can surely find ways to make all the criteria apply to him. Likewise those who hold him in the highest esteem no doubt won't see any of the criteria as fitting. There is a word for that: denial The truth, as usual, is probably somewhere in between. Or that actually many things do apply but its a matter of degree. Mayb e 50% on some items, 90% on others. See my longer response to Vaj for the issues I take with his evaluation. I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. HAHAHA. Well I sense you have never been around MMY and the grand trappings of the whole scene around him. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 22, 2005, at 9:51 AM, markmeredith2002 wrote:Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the "outrageous titles" point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, or the "questionable linneage" point, as the jyotir math shankaracharya linneage controversy is not directly related. I'm sure there are some who would include the "opulence" point and maybe a couple others. On 1: And the book _Love and God_ if I got the title correct does not claim to be the experience of God Consciousness? There is also the account of M. declaring himself "messiah" but that must've been a joke. Some claim not. OTOH it has often been claimed M. never declared himself enlightened at all, his students did.For #4, clearly M. gives an intro path and then talks on big "E" but never gives the full path, esp. regarding the finer techniques for realization, which are simply missing. Of course he has convinced many that they got the whole thing. It is not possible to understand this without some external testing and experience. The world may appear yellow to the jaundiced.On # 5 "Does not practice what is preached", a billionaire claiming to be a renunciate who also claims to be celibate? I trust you see my point. Since basically what he "preaches" is Neoadvaita with a little Patanjali and Kashmir Shaivism mixed in as well as Dharma shastra, perhaps a clearer way to look at this one is does he teach effective Advaita vedanta or does he follow "natural law", i.e. the injunctions of the Dharma and Artha shastras? Also, is he attached to the results of his actions a la ch. 1-6 of the Gita?#6 does not really apply in the sense conveyed but should be adjusted to the situation at hand. Put it this way, M. has an "entourage". Who are the entourage and how does one get to be in the group of sees him? Who are those who get satsang and is this a traditional satsang or a westernized version?#7 In this case perhaps translated 'does the guru give satsang in a way which is foreign to the culture'. If one considers satsang as free or by donation in traditional Indian culture are those who are granted satsang with M. made to pay (either with money or their complete lives)? In other words, has he distorted the manner in which students come to see and "hang" with their teacher? Clearly this is "yes" as most people never get to ever meet M. in person, let alone talk to him. Those who do, pay a price.#8 The recent description in a book with excepts posted here gives the following description:"One late night, after the guests had gone and our work was finished, we relaxed with Maharishi in his spacious and silky suite inside the old monastery." and the place itself is described as an "impenetriable fortress".Not your typical monks digs... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 22, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Rick Archer wrote:on 12/22/05 10:00 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the "opulence" criterion, for example. Have you ever been in his private suite? Flown on the Movement's Boeing 707 (now sold), ridden in his Bentley? Yeah Rick, but *were they opulent?* :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
Certainly these points might be applied to cult leaders but not to a guru. To my understanding a true guru has no need to be a guru, it is the seeker that has the need for the guru. Therefore a clear test for a guru might better be how much or how little are followers sought or needed by them. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://energygrid.com/spirit/ap-falsegurutest.html 1.States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers. 2.Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teaching; they do not take kindly to ordinary unenlightened individuals questioning them. They or their organisations will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans. 3.Acts omnipotently with no accountability: Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. Unjust or outrageous behaviour by the guru is passed off as what is needed to help the followers grow (how kind). These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students. A real master respects your will even if he or she understands that your particular decisions may not be in your interest, and he or she will act accountably to an ethical code of conduct. 4.Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it: It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points in the same way that the scholars in the middle ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Any fool can talk about the end goal because what is said is irrefutable to most of your listeners. What is skillful is guiding those listeners to having awakening within themselves. The real teacher focuses on the path and strictly avoids any talk on enlightenment. 5.Does not practice what is preached: Contrary to spiritual myth, you don't reach a point of realization whereby you can then start acting mindlessly. If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way, at least most of the time, showing suitable regret for any lapses). If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live in austere conditions, so should he. 6.Takes the credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: The fact is that meditation and guided visualisation work. Anyone doing them will experience major changes, benefits and realizations. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques so that she has something unique to attract followers. And she will hijack the effects of meditation as the guru's blessing rather than each individuals natural potential. Often the students or followers are forbidden from divulging the techniques to maintain a sort of intellectual property right, usually under the guise of needing the technique to be taught correctly. 7.Specifically gives satsang or darshan when it is not part of his culture: Darshan is when the disciples or students of a master line up and to pass their master, who is usually seated, with either a bow or traditionally kissing their feet (yes it does happen). In the East, this is part of their culture and a normal thing to do to show respect and reverence (even children will kiss the feet of their fathers). However, here in the West, such copycat behaviour is a strong indication that the guru is acting a role. Satsang, on the other hand, means literally the company of the Truth. In a deeper sense it is an affirmation of the Guru-Disciple relationship in Eastern traditions. But some Western gurus will use this terminology because they are playing a role. 8.Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being wealthy. But when that luxury turns to unnecessary opulence using funds that were not explicity donated for that purpose then you are probably dealing with a false guru. Money is collected from followers usually in the form of donations, and those donations are given as an act of love, appreciation and to help spread the influence of the master. However, a genuine master is more likely to use such wealth to lessen the suffering in this world, not to buy another yacht, private jet or Rolls Royce. 9.Encourages or permits adoration from his followers: Avoid any group that focuses on the master themselves rather than the teachings or spiritual practices. This will be a hindrance to your self-realisation for your focus will be drawn
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 8:51 AM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, He didn't object to being called Maharishi, may have decided to use the term His Holiness, Just for da record, His Holiness is fairly commonly applied to gurus by their followers in India. Don't know if it's traditional per se, but it wouldn't be seen as outrageous, in my understanding. It simply means that the guru, in the opinion of his/her followers, has found God. constantly says my Vedic science, and then there's this (is founding something an accomplishment if that thing never succeeds?): A Glimpse of Maharishi's Achievements Over Forty Years Around the World (1957-1998) 1957: Maharishi founds the world-wide Spiritual Regeneration Movement. 1957-1967: Maharishi introduces research in the field of consciousness and brings to light seven states of consciousness. 1970: The first scientific research validating the effects of Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation programme is published in the international scientific journals Science and Scientific American. 1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science -- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative Intelligence, training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe. 1975: Maharishi discovers the Constitution of the Universe -- the lively potential of Natural Law -- in Rk Ved, and discovers the structuring dynamics of Rk Ved in the entire Vedic Literature. On the basis of the discovery of the Maharishi Effect, Maharishi celebrates the Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment around the world, with grand celebrations on all continents. India's Lok Sabha issues a proclamation, one of many issued by governments around the globe, commending Maharishi's world-wide activities. 1976: Maharishi creates a World Government for the Age of Enlightenment with its sovereignty in the domain of consciousness and authority in the invincible power of Natural Law. Maharishi introduces the TM-Sidhi Programme and the experience of bubbling bliss in Yogic Flying to create supreme mind-body co-ordination in the individual and coherence in world consciousness. 1978: Maharishi inaugurates the Ideal Society Campaign in 108 Countries. Maharishi creates the World Peace Project, sending teams of Yogic Flyers to the most troubled areas of the world, to calm the violence through their self-referral performance of the Transcendental Meditation TM- Sidhi programme. Maharishi formulates his Absolute Theories of Government, Education, Health, Defence, Economy, Management, and Law and Order to raise every area of life to perfection. 1980: Maharishi brings to light the commentary of Rk Veda, Apaurusheya Bhashya, as the self-generating, self-perpetuating structure of consciousness. 1981: Maharishi organises the centuries-old scattered Vedic Literature as the literature of a perfect science -- Maharishi's Vedic Science and Technology. 1984: The first group of 7,000 Yogic Flyers gathers in Fairfield, Iowa, USA. Scientific research on this assembly validates Maharishi's prediction that when the square root of one percent of the world's population practices the TM-Sidhi programme, including Yogic Flying, together in one place, positive trends increase and negative tendencies decrease throughout the whole world. 1985: Maharishi brings to light the full potential of Ayur-Veda, Gandharva Veda, Dhanur-Veda, Sthapatya Veda, and Jyotish to create a disease- free and problem-free family of nations. 1988: Maharishi formulates his Master Plan to Create Heaven on Earth for the reconstruction of the whole world, inner and outer. Maharishi brings to light Supreme Political Science to introduce automation in administration and create conflict-free politics and a problem- free government in every country. Maharishi inspires the formation of a new political party, the Natural Law Party, in an increasing number of countries throughout the world, to enrich and support national law with Natural Law. 1993: Maharishi inaugurates Global Ram Raj. Maharishi's Absolute Theory of Government and his practical formula A Group for a Government -- gaining support of Natural Law by creating and maintaining a group of Yogic Flyers -- is verified politically in Mozambique and scientifically by a multi-million dollar experiment Washington, DC in the USA. Maharishi discovers the Veda and Vedic Literature in human physiology, establishing the grand unity of all material diversity of creation - - of all sciences and of all religions. Maharishi
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 22, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Rick Archer wrote: on 12/22/05 10:00 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. Have you ever been in his private suite? Flown on the Movement's Boeing 707 (now sold), ridden in his Bentley? Yeah Rick, but *were they opulent?* :-) Yes, I mean just because they were drapped in miles of the finest silks, and gold finishing, was the steering wheel made of solid gold -- studded with diamons and rubies? If not the whole thing was clearly not opulant, and anyone who says so clearly has an agenda against the TMO. Such biased warped views! I am shocked, shocked! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 10:00 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. Have you ever been in his private suite? Flown on the Movement's Boeing 707 (now sold), ridden in his Bentley? Do you have proof, Mr. Archer? ;-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Since basically what he preaches is Neoadvaita with a little Patanjali and Kashmir Shaivism mixed in as well as Dharma shastra, perhaps a clearer way to look at this one is does he teach effective Advaita vedanta or does he follow natural law, i.e. the injunctions of the Dharma and Artha shastras? Whatever your other opinions of Mr M may be, I find this insistence that he strictly adhere to one tradition or the other to be an odd thing. If he is in fact a seer, then wouldn't he be capable of cognizing his own teaching? So, better you should state flatly that he is a false seer, aka a bullsh*t artist, than to say he preaches a mix of this and that. Just as Buddha came out with his own unique teaching (which doubters could say was a corruption of Hinduism), Mr. M has come out with his. Otherwise we could be like snakes chasing our tails, constantly revealing the errors of seers who did not adhere strictly to past traditions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent list. Could be used for major and minor gurus. To me, it reads more like a Test of Characteristics I Don't Think Gurus Should Have. Even so, MMY doesn't do too badly on it. Some of the criteria apply to him, but a lot don't. Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, or the questionable linneage point, as the jyotir math shankaracharya linneage controversy is not directly related. I'm sure there are some who would include the opulence point and maybe a couple others. Folks who want to reinforce their belief that MMY is a false guru, like Vaj, can surely find ways to make all the criteria apply to him. Likewise those who hold him in the highest esteem no doubt won't see any of the criteria as fitting. The truth, as usual, is probably somewhere in between. See my longer response to Vaj for the issues I take with his evaluation. I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. I agree with you, Judy. I took a look at some that apply to MMY and thought, hmmm? Not really. Another thing,as Jim pointed out in an earlier post, is that you go with your direct experience with a guru. You must interact with them directly and trust your direct, authentic experience. You can't decide conceptually beforehand! There are also different levels of interaction with a guru. You have the personality surface( of which most of these test are addressing) and the transcendental. When you and the guru connect on the transcendent level, the surface behavior becomes essentially irrelevant. My first contact with MMY was transcendental and deeply profound. That's why I just scratch my head at all this surface nonsense that he does. Curiously, my first contact with SSRS was only on the surface personality level. I experienced some darshan, but no big deal. Same with Amma when I say her, nothing transcendental. It took several times seeing SSRS and then the whole thing openned-up. You can't judge the impact of a guru on you by their surface behavior. There's a whole other show going on right below the surface, and that is the main act, not the surface. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 10:00 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. Have you ever been in his private suite? Flown on the Movement's Boeing 707 (now sold), ridden in his Bentley? I'm sure he lives in comfort, as befits a chief executive of a global corporation. It's also my understanding that most of what would be considered luxuries in his personal surroundings were donated, not funded by the TMO. But then there was Rajneesh, who reportedly had 100 Rolls- Royces and wore a dozen Rolexes on each arm, also had all kinds of jewelry and so on. On the scale from austerity to the ultimate opulence, I'd guess MMY is somewhere in the middle. From what I've read, at any rate, most of the opulence (such as the Bentley) is functional, in that it facilitates his being able to do what he needs to do to run the movement (or did; I'm not sure he actually goes anywhere in the Bentley these days). I'm certainly open to hearing otherwise from those in the know. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Need Help? Get Help! Tools and Strategies for Healthy Drug-Free Living/a. http://us.click.yahoo.com/wI.OUB/dbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 8:51 AM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, He didn't object to being called Maharishi, may have decided to use the term His Holiness, Just for da record, His Holiness is fairly commonly applied to gurus by their followers in India. Don't know if it's traditional per se, but it wouldn't be seen as outrageous, in my understanding. It simply means that the guru, in the opinion of his/her followers, has found God. Just for the record, sinces it is so common, can you name 10? Or perhaps is pratice and commonness something that was told you at some TMO lecture? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 22, 2005, at 11:24 AM, jim_flanegin wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Since basically what he "preaches" is Neoadvaita with a little Patanjali and Kashmir Shaivism mixed in as well as Dharma shastra, perhaps a clearer way to look at this one is does he teach effective Advaita vedanta or does he follow "natural law", i.e. the injunctions of the Dharma and Artha shastras? Whatever your other opinions of Mr M may be, I find this insistence that he strictly adhere to one tradition or the other to be an odd thing. If he is in fact a seer, then wouldn't he be capable of cognizing his own teaching? So, better you should state flatly that he is a false seer, aka a bullsh*t artist, than to say he preaches a mix of this and that. Just as Buddha came out with his own unique teaching (which doubters could say was a corruption of Hinduism), Mr. M has come out with his. Otherwise we could be like snakes chasing our tails, constantly revealing the errors of seers who did not adhere strictly to past traditions. I don't feel he (or anyone else) should strictly adhere to tradition. The point is: all the trads. mentioned possess a wonderful cornucopia of proven methods to attain their goals--how do they measure side by side? What's missing? Why? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Since basically what he preaches is Neoadvaita with a little Patanjali and Kashmir Shaivism mixed in as well as Dharma shastra, perhaps a clearer way to look at this one is does he teach effective Advaita vedanta or does he follow natural law, i.e. the injunctions of the Dharma and Artha shastras? Whatever your other opinions of Mr M may be, I find this insistence that he strictly adhere to one tradition or the other to be an odd thing. If he is in fact a seer, then wouldn't he be capable of cognizing his own teaching? Just as Buddha came out with his own unique teaching (which doubters could say was a corruption of Hinduism), Mr. M has come out with his. I thought he got it lock, stock and barrel from guru dev and did not create anything by himself. Or are you saying that he derived teachings outside of what guru dev gave him? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AQDrNC/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 22, 2005, at 11:24 AM, jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Since basically what he preaches is Neoadvaita with a little Patanjali and Kashmir Shaivism mixed in as well as Dharma shastra, perhaps a clearer way to look at this one is does he teach effective Advaita vedanta or does he follow natural law, i.e. the injunctions of the Dharma and Artha shastras? Whatever your other opinions of Mr M may be, I find this insistence that he strictly adhere to one tradition or the other to be an odd thing. If he is in fact a seer, then wouldn't he be capable of cognizing his own teaching? So, better you should state flatly that he is a false seer, aka a bullsh*t artist, than to say he preaches a mix of this and that. Just as Buddha came out with his own unique teaching (which doubters could say was a corruption of Hinduism), Mr. M has come out with his. Otherwise we could be like snakes chasing our tails, constantly revealing the errors of seers who did not adhere strictly to past traditions. I don't feel he (or anyone else) should strictly adhere to tradition. The point is: all the trads. mentioned possess a wonderful cornucopia of proven methods to attain their goals--how do they measure side by side? What's missing? Why? Yes, always good questions of anything we are dedicated to. And whether or not it is meeting our expectations. I personally haven't found anything lacking in my practice of TM, intellectually or experientially, so I am not sure what you are getting at. Though I can see that if your expectations are different you may be disappointed (by TM). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Drugs Don't Discriminate. Get help for yourself or someone you know. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0I.OUB/ZbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 10:00 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't figure out how anybody could reasonably justify applying the opulence criterion, for example. Have you ever been in his private suite? Flown on the Movement's Boeing 707 (now sold), ridden in his Bentley? I have furnished several of his so-called suites. In germany and Holland. He sent us out to IKEA to buy furniture, and carpets with faulty threading were bought cheaply from wholseale-dealers. Bentley ? Maharishi never had one, He had a cousin of the Jaguar called Daimler which He loved. Rick Archer's neverending rumourspreading will continue to tell you the opposite however. Just watch. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Certainly these points might be applied to cult leaders but not to a guru. To my understanding a true guru has no need to be a guru, it is the seeker that has the need for the guru. Therefore a clear test for a guru might better be how much or how little are followers sought or needed by them. MMY certainly doesn't seem to be seeking followers these days. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/HcoraC/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For #4, clearly M. gives an intro path and then talks on big E but never gives the full path, esp. regarding the finer techniques for realization, which are simply missing. Unless the techniques he teaches are in themselves a full path, of course. snip #6 does not really apply in the sense conveyed but should be adjusted to the situation at hand. Put it this way, M. has an entourage. Who are the entourage and how does one get to be in the group of sees him? Who are those who get satsang and is this a traditional satsang or a westernized version? #7 In this case perhaps translated 'does the guru give satsang in a way which is foreign to the culture'. If one considers satsang as free or by donation in traditional Indian culture are those who are granted satsang with M. made to pay (either with money or their complete lives)? In other words, has he distorted the manner in which students come to see and hang with their teacher? Clearly this is yes as most people never get to ever meet M. in person, let alone talk to him. Those who do, pay a price. Clearly it would be impossible for most TMers to meet and hang with MMY in the manner that's traditional in Indian culture. Part of the problem with evaluating MMY according to the standard criteria is that he is not a standard guru (isn't a guru at all, for that matter, except in the most generic sense of the term). For many of the criteria, it's apples and oranges. #8 The recent description in a book with excepts posted here gives the following description: One late night, after the guests had gone and our work was finished, we relaxed with Maharishi in his spacious and silky suite inside the old monastery. and the place itself is described as an impenetriable fortress. Not your typical monks digs... The description ain't all that recent. From what I've read, he doesn't live in the monastery building any longer; he has his own Stapathyavedically correct quarters that were built for him. But even a spacious and silky suite doesn't really amount to opulence, nor does impenetrability. No, not your typical monk's digs, but then how many typical monks run global corporations, and could they even do so in typical monk's digs? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 8:51 AM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, He didn't object to being called Maharishi, may have decided to use the term His Holiness, Just for da record, His Holiness is fairly commonly applied to gurus by their followers in India. Don't know if it's traditional per se, but it wouldn't be seen as outrageous, in my understanding. It simply means that the guru, in the opinion of his/her followers, has found God. Just for the record, sinces it is so common, can you name 10? Or perhaps is pratice and commonness something that was told you at some TMO lecture? Nope, was never told this. I've noticed, however, that many books by spiritual teachers are dedicated to their gurus, who are identified by the teachers as His Holiness. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 8:51 AM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, He didn't object to being called Maharishi, may have decided to use the term His Holiness, Just for da record, His Holiness is fairly commonly applied to gurus by their followers in India. Don't know if it's traditional per se, but it wouldn't be seen as outrageous, in my understanding. It simply means that the guru, in the opinion of his/her followers, has found God. Just for the record, sinces it is so common, can you name 10? Or perhaps is pratice and commonness something that was told you at some TMO lecture? Nope, was never told this. I've noticed, however, that many books by spiritual teachers are dedicated to their gurus, who are identified by the teachers as His Holiness. And so you should easily be able to name 10. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/CQDrNC/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For #4, clearly M. gives an intro path and then talks on big E but never gives the full path, esp. regarding the finer techniques for realization, which are simply missing. Unless the techniques he teaches are in themselves a full path, of course. snip #6 does not really apply in the sense conveyed but should be adjusted to the situation at hand. Put it this way, M. has an entourage. Who are the entourage and how does one get to be in the group of sees him? Who are those who get satsang and is this a traditional satsang or a westernized version? #7 In this case perhaps translated 'does the guru give satsang in a way which is foreign to the culture'. If one considers satsang as free or by donation in traditional Indian culture are those who are granted satsang with M. made to pay (either with money or their complete lives)? In other words, has he distorted the manner in which students come to see and hang with their teacher? Clearly this is yes as most people never get to ever meet M. in person, let alone talk to him. Those who do, pay a price. Clearly it would be impossible for most TMers to meet and hang with MMY in the manner that's traditional in Indian culture. Part of the problem with evaluating MMY according to the standard criteria is that he is not a standard guru (isn't a guru at all, for that matter, except in the most generic sense of the term). For many of the criteria, it's apples and oranges. #8 The recent description in a book with excepts posted here gives the following description: One late night, after the guests had gone and our work was finished, we relaxed with Maharishi in his spacious and silky suite inside the old monastery. and the place itself is described as an impenetriable fortress. Not your typical monks digs... The description ain't all that recent. From what I've read, he doesn't live in the monastery building any longer; he has his own Stapathyavedically correct quarters that were built for him. But even a spacious and silky suite doesn't really amount to opulence, nor does impenetrability. No, not your typical monk's digs, but then how many typical monks run global corporations, and could they even do so in typical monk's digs? And when asked, he paused for a moment, then said with a bit of startlement in his expression, that he was a householder, not a recluse. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/HcoraC/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
I just realized that this whole discussion of a false guru is nonsense. Of what purpose are all these criteria? Are these to be used to select a guru? No, not as they are written. They are simply an attempt by a mind to position itself in relationship to a narrative it likes regarding gurus. They have an ideal guru in mind and compare and judge every flesh and blood guru to this one. It's really nonsense and no practical function. Just mind fluff (very sticky indeed!). The only way to see if a guru is of value is to involve yourself in their teaching for an honest amount of time. If it works for you, great, if it doesn't, move on. Buddha didn't disparage the teachers he studied with and found inadequate to his enlightenment. He just moved on. These teachers had a value for other people, not for him. MMY has had great value for many people. Many people still gain value from him. Many have moved on. It is what it is. To lock yourself into a conceptual model of a perfect guru is just silliness. Like wishing for the perfect mate or mother or father. A sign of psychological immaturity, isn't it? --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For #4, clearly M. gives an intro path and then talks on big E but never gives the full path, esp. regarding the finer techniques for realization, which are simply missing. Unless the techniques he teaches are in themselves a full path, of course. snip #6 does not really apply in the sense conveyed but should be adjusted to the situation at hand. Put it this way, M. has an entourage. Who are the entourage and how does one get to be in the group of sees him? Who are those who get satsang and is this a traditional satsang or a westernized version? #7 In this case perhaps translated 'does the guru give satsang in a way which is foreign to the culture'. If one considers satsang as free or by donation in traditional Indian culture are those who are granted satsang with M. made to pay (either with money or their complete lives)? In other words, has he distorted the manner in which students come to see and hang with their teacher? Clearly this is yes as most people never get to ever meet M. in person, let alone talk to him. Those who do, pay a price. Clearly it would be impossible for most TMers to meet and hang with MMY in the manner that's traditional in Indian culture. Part of the problem with evaluating MMY according to the standard criteria is that he is not a standard guru (isn't a guru at all, for that matter, except in the most generic sense of the term). For many of the criteria, it's apples and oranges. #8 The recent description in a book with excepts posted here gives the following description: One late night, after the guests had gone and our work was finished, we relaxed with Maharishi in his spacious and silky suite inside the old monastery. and the place itself is described as an impenetriable fortress. Not your typical monks digs... The description ain't all that recent. From what I've read, he doesn't live in the monastery building any longer; he has his own Stapathyavedically correct quarters that were built for him. But even a spacious and silky suite doesn't really amount to opulence, nor does impenetrability. No, not your typical monk's digs, but then how many typical monks run global corporations, and could they even do so in typical monk's digs? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Does he tell you he loves you when he hits you? Abuse. Narrated by Halle Berry. http://us.click.yahoo.com/hemMeA/rbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, braaahmaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/22/05 8:51 AM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seems to me #s 2,3,6,13,14,15,16,17,20,21,23,24,25, and 26 apply. And I'm not even including the outrageous titles point, which MMY gives liberally to others but not himself, He didn't object to being called Maharishi, may have decided to use the term His Holiness, Just for da record, His Holiness is fairly commonly applied to gurus by their followers in India. Don't know if it's traditional per se, but it wouldn't be seen as outrageous, in my understanding. It simply means that the guru, in the opinion of his/her followers, has found God. Just for the record, sinces it is so common, can you name 10? Or perhaps is pratice and commonness something that was told you at some TMO lecture? Nope, was never told this. I've noticed, however, that many books by spiritual teachers are dedicated to their gurus, who are identified by the teachers as His Holiness. And so you should easily be able to name 10. Nope, don't remember the names specifically; and I'm not where I have access to my personal library, nor a public one, for that matter. Even if I were, though, I don't think I'd want to waste time on such a silly request. If you prefer not to believe me, fine. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Dying to be thin? Anorexia. Narrated by Julianne Moore. http://us.click.yahoo.com/abEMxA/sbOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 22, 2005, at 11:42 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For #4, clearly M. gives an intro path and then talks on big "E" but never gives the full path, esp. regarding the finer techniques for realization, which are simply missing. Unless the techniques he teaches are in themselves a full path, of course. Exactly my point. When seen in full perspective, the complete path is truncated in this tradition.In the 60's, when naivete was still relatively high on "things eastern" it could pass. But as western understanding has increased and numerous teachers with TM-type meditation AND the continuing path in Patanjali and advaita, etc. many could see what was missing. That's not to say TM is "invalid" or an improper in some way, it's not. It just does not include the entire path to the states of consciousness claimed.Once this trend was understood by the public then TM numbers began to drop. However the marketing apparatus is still quite a potent draw. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just realized that this whole discussion of a false guru is nonsense. Of what purpose are all these criteria? Are these to be used to select a guru? No, not as they are written. They are simply an attempt by a mind to position itself in relationship to a narrative it likes regarding gurus. Bingo. Well put. There are, however, similar lists compiled by those who study spiritual movements/cults that are more or less empirically based, and they may actually have some value (although even these can be biased). They have an ideal guru in mind and compare and judge every flesh and blood guru to this one. It's really nonsense and no practical function. Just mind fluff (very sticky indeed!). The only way to see if a guru is of value is to involve yourself in their teaching for an honest amount of time. If it works for you, great, if it doesn't, move on. Buddha didn't disparage the teachers he studied with and found inadequate to his enlightenment. He just moved on. These teachers had a value for other people, not for him. MMY has had great value for many people. Many people still gain value from him. Many have moved on. It is what it is. To lock yourself into a conceptual model of a perfect guru is just silliness. Like wishing for the perfect mate or mother or father. A sign of psychological immaturity, isn't it? --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For #4, clearly M. gives an intro path and then talks on big E but never gives the full path, esp. regarding the finer techniques for realization, which are simply missing. Unless the techniques he teaches are in themselves a full path, of course. snip #6 does not really apply in the sense conveyed but should be adjusted to the situation at hand. Put it this way, M. has an entourage. Who are the entourage and how does one get to be in the group of sees him? Who are those who get satsang and is this a traditional satsang or a westernized version? #7 In this case perhaps translated 'does the guru give satsang in a way which is foreign to the culture'. If one considers satsang as free or by donation in traditional Indian culture are those who are granted satsang with M. made to pay (either with money or their complete lives)? In other words, has he distorted the manner in which students come to see and hang with their teacher? Clearly this is yes as most people never get to ever meet M. in person, let alone talk to him. Those who do, pay a price. Clearly it would be impossible for most TMers to meet and hang with MMY in the manner that's traditional in Indian culture. Part of the problem with evaluating MMY according to the standard criteria is that he is not a standard guru (isn't a guru at all, for that matter, except in the most generic sense of the term). For many of the criteria, it's apples and oranges. #8 The recent description in a book with excepts posted here gives the following description: One late night, after the guests had gone and our work was finished, we relaxed with Maharishi in his spacious and silky suite inside the old monastery. and the place itself is described as an impenetriable fortress. Not your typical monks digs... The description ain't all that recent. From what I've read, he doesn't live in the monastery building any longer; he has his own Stapathyavedically correct quarters that were built for him. But even a spacious and silky suite doesn't really amount to opulence, nor does impenetrability. No, not your typical monk's digs, but then how many typical monks run global corporations, and could they even do so in typical monk's digs? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Ever feel sad or cry for no reason at all? Depression. Narrated by Kate Hudson. http://us.click.yahoo.com/YbEMxA/ubOLAA/d1hLAA/0NYolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
